Ordinarily Speaking. People look at my life from the outside and see a happy family in the perfect life, but underneath it all of pain behind these eyes.
Soon time.
Hello, and welcome to a new episode of Ordinarily Speaking. Ryan Brockoff is an Ozzie basketball star who played with the Dallas Mavericks in the NBA. When he was cut from the MAVs suddenly in twenty twenty, he quickly found a new NBA home, but the pandemic derailed the dream. Eventually, Ryan returned home to Victoria to play in the NBL. The challenging eighteen month period saw his mental health deteriorate, and the veteran boomer made the heart wrenching call to
pull out of the Tokyo Olympics. That decision was the catalyst for Ryan to seek therapy and subsequently confront the trauma he experienced as a kid. For the very first time, Ryan shares his story publicly. This episode is raw and at times confronting, as the softly spoken basketball star reflects
on his complex upbringing. The little boy he once was is reflected in his eyes staring back at me, as his mother Joe expressed to me, our story is one of hardship, sacrifices, violence, adversity, sadness, lots of guilt on my part, death, and then freedom to pick up the pieces and live. Ryan shares his story in the hope it might help people listening, but please know the content
may be triggering with conversations around suicide and abuse. Remember there is help out there beyond blue dot org, dot AU, Lifeline one three, double one one four or one eight hundred, respect are just a couple of places you can guy. We caught up in Ryan's home in Melbourne, where he lives with his wife, Katie and little boy Jackson. I hope you enjoyed the chat. Ryan, thanks so much for joining me for a bloke who's got the nickname ironically rowdy.
You for not saying a lot. How do you think you're going to find the next hour talking about nothing but you challenging?
I'm sure, but we'll get through it.
I appreciate you. You coming on fair to say you've done some work on yourself in recent months, including reflecting on your childhood. Can you give me a bit of an insight into what your childhood was like and what the work you wanted to do on yourself was.
Yeah, absolutely. It's sort of not hidden from ending, but sort of like to keep a lot of things myself and even sort of closest friends and things like that. Sort of don't have a great sort of understanding of my childhood and upbringing. And I guess it all started. I was born fairly easy to say, but youngest of four kids. My parents divorced when I was I think about two.
My father was.
Diagnosed with like a frontal lobe brain tumor.
A little bit before I was born.
And yeah, I didn't didn't have too much to do with them growing up. You know, different stories kind of give you, you know, who's a different man before he's diagnosed and after and how it affected him. But you know, they split up and I was two when Mum raised the four of us kids by herself. Another big part of my childhood was my name. Actually she spent a lot of time raising us as well. I told you it wouldn't last very long, Okay, So yeah, mum, Mum
raised us four kids. We moved around a little bit when I was younger. We were out man Danielong for a few years and then moved down to One Beach, where I spent majority of my childhood. Yeah, it was it was just sort of us us four Mum and then Nan would come over and take care of us. And Mum joined the police force and when she was going through the academy and night shift and stuff. Now would would obviously come over or would go stay. It
stayed hers. So she's she's a big part of part of everything.
What is in the Maine to you tell me a bit more about it.
She's a she's a tough woman Italian. She came over on the boat during the Wars to kind of escape Italy at the time. And yeah, just tough, very obdical thinking, very tradition and all, I guess you could say in sort of the sense of roles. And she was wonderful. She was always there when we needed her and always willing to drop whatever she was doing and help us out basketball games or coming over and cooking his dinner or us go staying there or.
Whatever it was.
And you know, she's still doing pretty good right now ninety two. And it's been tough not being able to sort of see her and all the COVID impacts, but she's she'll outlive us all. She's too stubborn. But yeah, wonderful, loving woman, very very strong willed though say, yeah, a big part of a big part of our childhood. But but yeah, sort of get back to sort of the early years. So we moved around a few times and changed schools a few times.
We sort of.
Settled in bomb Beach area sort of during my very early years. I think we had visits with my dad once a month, once every two weeks. He had remarried, I think they remarried, but he had a partner and we didn't get on too famously with her. So that made the dynamic, you know, obviously tough. My dad was sort of soft spoken and pretty quiet and and uh and hard to sort of, you know, really get too much out of from what I can remember. So we did that for for a little while, and then that
sort of dried up for for quite a while. We didn't have a lot to do with sort of my dad's side of the family, my grandma and my dad's side, or you know, cousins and aunties and uncles. It was it was sort of a little bit messy, so it was just us and Uh. I started getting into basketball and and playing around Frankston and starting to come up and he was a former Frankston player. He played during their one season in the NBL, and not that he was a star player or anything like that, but u
but he was a big fan of the game. And he started to come to a few games here and there, and we started to make some more have some more contact, have some more somewhat visits, and then again it's sort of dropped off for for a while and sort of out of the blue, when I was twelve, twelve or thirteen, two thousand and two, two thousand and three, we get a call sort of out of the blue that he's pretty sick, and.
But yeah, he was. He was a hospital.
And basically just told comes, hey, goodbye. It's still it's still hard now, but it's more of the you know, the what epps and you know, his kids turned out all right, and now we've.
Got kids on our own.
It's just yeah, although we'll never never close or or not never really that closest becoming a father. Yeah, you know, you only want it's best for your kids and to be part.
Of their life.
And whether it's his fault or not for not being a part now, it was he was so sort of young when he did go that he's missed a lot, and.
I guess it's hard for you now as a father to reconcile not having that relationship with his kids. Is that?
Yeah, So you know, that's that's why I guess a lot of my decisions and towards now now having a childs what can I do that's best for the kid or best of my wife, Like I'm here to support them, and I don't want to put my kids through the same thing. Okay, all right, we've got the first cry od of the way.
We're all locked in. Do you want to take the moment? No?
No, I'm okay now that that's just that's always a tough one to get through. Its completely understand. But but you know, childhood was was sort of rough. Grew up, you know, single parent. Mum worked on and off, but we got by. We were sort of scraped by. And Mom did an amazing job dealing with all us four kids and getting us everywhere and travels and basketball and you know, my sister played netball and brother played footy
and cricket and and everything else in between. Yeah, it's it's I got one kid, and I got a wife, and we're here most of the and I'm like, Jesus is hard work. And she had she had four of us. My sisters and brother are eighteen months apart, and then I'm a couple of years after. So, you know, she had a lot at an early age with us kids and sort of taken a lot of it on herself.
And I didn't appreciate it when I was growing up.
I was like, why can I get this, or you know, all that sort of stuff. But looking back now, like, it's amazing how she held it all together and got us all through it. And you know, we had some ups and downs during that period.
Yeah, Mum had.
Had one partner that was difficult for us. So she joined the police academy and became a police officer. Met this guy who was also a police officer. I was probably seven, seven and eight somewhere around there.
So yeah, just a police officer.
Obviously work pretty strange hours and night shifts and things like that. So and and he wasn't a very pleasant fellow. He he had a lot of back problems and back pains, and he was on on some pay meds sort of at the time, but generally just wasn't wasn't very pleasant person to be around.
It was always difficult.
So if mum was away at night shift, you know, we sort of had to be on the best behavior, and if if things didn't go well or we weren't well behaved, you know, there was consequences where there was you know physically with you know, belts across the knuckles
or ruler or something like that. And then there was also sort of more of a mental side where he'd kind of get you out of bed at two three in the morning and would run the stairs in the house, or a few times he he locked me out of the house at two three in the morning and just basically shut off all lights and locked me out and left me out there for I don't remember how long, but at that age you're scared of everything and every little noise, and it wasn't sort of the where we
lived was okay, but yeah, it was just sort of things like that that that we.
Dealt with for a while, and.
Me being the youngest, I probably didn't process it as much as sort of the other kids until it sort of builds up. So that was always tough. It's tough here, And if mum was on night shift and then she slept during the day, then Basically we were confined to the downstairs so we wouldn't wake mums as the kitchen and their bedroom are on the and the land room were on the top floor. So yeah, it just was sort of a great happy place to be around for for a little while. And one morning we're getting up
for school. I don't remember I heard anything over through the night or not, but he was found in our front room. Mhkah, and uh he shot himself. H m hmmm. So it was I don't remember much around.
That day. I remember we didn't go to school.
Yeah, yeah, I don't don't sort of recalled too much from from that time, but yeah, I remember the front room was kind of the spare room. That's where we had sort of the old desktop computer and the landline and then log into the internet and make all the buzzy noises and it was it had to be obviously recarpeted and repainted and everything like that, and that's that's what I remember most. It's just sort of the changing that that happened up there.
So yeah, he was.
It's obviously easies e from the outside. He wasn't a happy person and took it out on us kids and eventually sort of got to himself. Mum became even more sort of protective after all that, and.
You know, the early stages that.
I guess things, things that I'd never to dealt with or not not stuff that outside of Katie and my media family that would know about. It's not something you kind of bring up to people, Yeah, how's your weekend. So it's obviously a lot behind the scenes that that I didn't didn't deal with and kept down for a
long period of time. But you know, it was always kind of not the back of thought, but it always made me a little bit a little bit more, a little bit more sort of to myself, a little bit more reserved, a little bit more cautious and and worrying about sort of little things. I don't know if that was just a coping mechanism or or what if it's just how I was supposed to be anyway, that just
the quiet, quiet kid. But after that sort of period, things things got, you know a little bit better, and basketball started to take a big, a big chunk of my time, big part of my life, and a lot of great things started to come from that, with with making teams and making friends and my mum met my now stepdad through that and he's he's awesome. Kev's been Kev's been great, and we've got a little bit of
a Brady bunch family now. So Kev's got four kids and from his previous marriage and we've got four kids and two sets of twins between the families and it's all sorts.
It's it was.
It was a little bit of a madhouse, but me and the youngest boy, Will with the same age, and we met through but he came and joined Frankston and and we became friends, and then Mum and keV built from there. But it was it was really nice having, you know, a friend that became a brother and basketball. But they've been together ever since. Very happy to see mum happy after everything.
So so Kev's been really good to her and they're out in the little farm and doing their own stuff.
And it's been nice coming back after being away for sort of so long and letting my son go over there and all the all his little cousins. It's a good place to meet up. They've got a bit of space and let him all run around. So that's been a big, big, positive sort of life change for all of us. Just you know, finding good people and mom now happy. So yeah, I feel like I've just been talking and crying, so surely got some questions in there to break me up.
I'm so sorry for everything that has happened to you.
I really am.
I just simply cannot imagine what that was like as a kid. Your mom. You spoke about her a little bit, but I mean, she sounds like one of the toughest people on earth. Can you tell me a little about your relationship with her and what she got through with the four kids as well?
Yeah, incredibly tough. Yeah, how she sort of just got us all through that period, or through that long stage of of our childhood and kept us all together and kept us, you know, fair and dressed and able to get to everything that we wanted to. Yeah, is pretty incredible, look back, and we got very very close. Obviously being the youngest son of an Italian family and obviously the favorite, which all the siblings know about.
Else. Yes, basically, but.
She played basketball and it was pretty good. She tells me she's pretty good. She keeps telling me all the names she used to play against, the Tims and so on and so forth, and I'm like, Okay, that's I know who that is.
So you're all right, I'm dressed up as miss Teams for one of my school days when I was a little kids.
Yeah, exactly perfect.
So, yeah, she was.
She was a little feisty point guard mum, But yeah, basketball was was a big connector for us and probably a big healer as well. She obviously has a passion for the game, and most of my family does. But it's been you know, every Friday night traveling to games and games throughout the week for domestic and trainings and everything else. So we spent a lot of time traveling and in the car and talking about basketball and everything like that. I didn't talk about anything else, so basketball
was easy. So yeah, and that was basically all my junior basketball was. It was Mum and I traveling around and yeah, we got very close and she rode sort of all the highs and lows that I did with junior basketball and not making state teams and making state teams, and when I sort of left for the as it was hard on her, like that was a big part for her. I went away at sixteen seventeen and then spent I guess most of the next fourteen years away
sort of. I was the youngest, but it was sort of out of the house first and off the other side of you know, not cameras, not too far, but then after that the other side of the world, and that was that was difficult obviously for her aunt for I but yeah, Mom, yeah, it's tough as nails. And without her it definitely would have been a lot worse for us kind of getting through and would have changed.
Little boy through the room, little Jackson would have.
You know, without Mum, the four of us would have been in a lot worse shape than than what we are. And although we didn't have much, she found a way to give us all the opportunities that we could ever want. And you know, a big reason for why I've had the basketball career that I have is sort of her sacrificing and putting us kids well and truly above herself. And you know, now she gets to to reap some of the waters to all the grandkids, which she loves, loves,
loves all that stuff. She'll complain about it, she'll say, I'm pretty tired, but I do you want to take Jackson? Yea, yeh, yeah, bring him down, Yeah, I'll bring him down. I'll take care of him. So it's nice.
And it was even harder than that, wasn't it for her? You speak of being the youngest of four, but they were twin sisters and even that wasn't straightforward for her.
No, Yeah, the twin sisters, there were about ten or twelve weeks premature. One of the sisters, Melissa, she was getting more of the nutrients through the umbilical cord. So even today, they were supposed to be identical twins, males quite a bit taller than Carly, But yeah, they were very, very small, and Carlie especially had a very low chance of sort of I guess surviving.
She was fitting the size.
Of your hand and didn't weigh anything, and they spend a lot of time in the hospital. They were even blessed by the Pope when he came through for visit. My name being a Roman Catholic was I think she's still got the photo, but yees, so, I couldn't imagine that sort of period as a parent, sort of watching the little kids five for life. But they're both happy and healthy now. Carli still has some hearing loss from from that period from her development, but they're they're both
doing great. Carli's got a couple of kids, Male's got three, and they just started getting back into the afl W, or not the afl W but the local leagues and love it. And Carlie's this tiny little whippet that gets crunched and she's as tough as NW. She just get straight back up. And Mel has a bung knees run around and first year and I think I think they went one, two and the best and fairest or something like that. So spawning family, strong women, strong women too.
So yeah, there's been a lot of I guess challenges and her mum especially has weathered it probably better than most, to be honest. That true.
One day that you actually broke your bone as a little attacker in you you look on your face with a smile.
Yes. Story.
So this one's a little more well known. But I think I was in grade four, grade five, eight or nine. Yeah, yeah, So we played in the semi final, it must have been grade five, so semi final domestic. To make the ground final, I took a charge and put my hand back to brace, fell to pain. Cried obviously at that point, because what else do you do it at that age when you fall over. Basically got told you're fine, go finish the game. We don't win in the game by
your mom. Yes, my mom was a coach. She has a coach. I think she's a coach. If not, she definitely was yelling at from the stands. And then back at that stage, I was playing like a mixed mixed neple as well, and my sister's played sort of netball. It was kind of there, I may as well do something, and the girls played later on in the day, so I was gold gold attack.
A goal shooter.
Was like, you know, I'm in a lot of pain. I can't really catch the ball or whatever. She's like. She basically stood there and looked me in the eye and said, I didn't raise a pussy, get up and go play. Fell on it a few times, wasn't happy we ended up winning. You are telling this whole story with a big smile on you. It's funny to look back now, but she'll probably feel dreadful about it as being aired.
But that's that's kind of how it was.
Was sort of you get knocked down, you just got to get back up. And we went to the emergency room after that and had the skin and yeah, you got a fracture or a break in your your wrist. And she felt pretty terrible after that, so she was a little a little bit more. I was like, if if I'm hurd, I'm hurt. She's like, okay, I'll probably trust you. But you know, I mean kids now they fall over and you're like, I wasn't that bad, Just
go on, get up, get up. But yeah, I'm not missing the Grand Final, which I was pretty pretty upset about. But yeah, just a funny story that I guess that's just our sort of family. It's just things get tough. It's just jump back up, dust off, and keep going. And eventually we figured out it was broken. So probably not the best advice, but yeah, she still feels pretty bad to this day about it.
So with such a special I mean, lots of people have special relationships with their mum, but yours is obviously to a whole another level. What did it mean to her when when you call her up and you say, Mama, I'm playing in the NBA.
Oh, it was still sort of a truck to me.
So I probably hadn't processed it at the point, but yeah, just pure happiness I think from mum and from keV as well, and you know they'd seen the long journey from you know, talling away over in Europe and college to finally getting sort of the opportunity and the sacrifices that aid along the way with missing a lot of stuff from a personal side, missing birth of nieces and nephews and birthdays and weddings and Christmases and everything else you can kind of think of during that period to
sort of chase chase a dream and become the best player that I could be, and to sort of see a lot of those sacrifices piece some sort of dividend have have some sort of reward and meaning to it was special and a lot of it, you know, does go to her and the sacrifice she made getting me around everywhere as a kid and supporting me all throughout my juniors and then obviously when I became a professional as well. She still gives me advice to this day.
I wanted advice.
Yeah, it's just advice that's eased off a little bit.
Now, what kind of advice does he?
Shoot the ball? Basically, if you're open, shoot the ball and I'll drive to the rim and then get to the free throw line. Just just advice that she she obviously watches the games, and yeah, she likes the likes to let me know what I'm what I'm doing good, and especially when I'm not. And no, it's it's very it's more playful now, so it's it's fine, But it was it was a pretty pretty special call to be able to make to her and and sort of share that together.
When you decided to to revisit I guess what has happened. Had you pretty much just locked it away your childhood in your mind, had you just never got therapy, never spoken about it, and just put it in a box.
Yeah, Yeah, for the most part, I don't even know when I sort of opened up to Katie about a lot of it. It's not something that.
The passion my father.
I mean, people know about that he passed away, but you know, not a lot of the details of sort of whether we had contact or not, or you know, the sort of impact it had. But it was it was a sort of you know, put that away. There was there's a few other losses with growth, grandparents and stuff like that. You just kind of lock it away and if you don't think about it, sort of it doesn't sort of affect you, or at least that's what I kind of thought for a long time, and all
the other sort of stuff. It's just it's not something you want to really dredge up. And I think that's probably a lot of times that's the best way to
deal it is actually confront it. But for me, it was it was sort of a scary and obviously me breaking down a little bit earlier confronting experience to sort of acknowledge that that did happen and that we went through that and not only you know, affecting me, but affected the rest of the family, and not something that unless I'm completely comfortable both in myself and the person I'm with, that I'm not going to sort of go into any sort of details with that. But Katie eventually
prided it out of me. I knew at that point that she was going to be one that I was going to be with and marry, and felt comfortable sort
of divulging that sort of stuff. But Katie was one that sort of saw a lot of the toll that some of those things that I've been carrying had taken and the effect that it had on me, and how I was that, you know, she was a big proponent for I don't know, probably five to six years that I probably should speak to someone and get some help and things like that, and I was like, no, no, no, like I'm fine, Like you know how it is.
You always think.
You're able to handle all the situations that life throw at you and sort of put your head down and get through it. And yeah, I think eventually just sort of chipped away. So I'm very thankful that she kept supporting me and encouraging me without trying to, I guess,
force me into it. And I had to come to realization myself that I needed to take some time and go through all this sort of crap and bring it all up and put it out there and work through and figure out out you know, why exactly it's still having an effect and why I was unable to do it then and sort of work through the answers. Now, are you glad that?
I mean, obviously it's traumatic, and it will always be traumatic because it is trauma, But are you glad now that you are unpacking it and working through it as tough as it is.
Absolutely?
Yeah. It's definitely not easy to speak about. And some of my sessions were very much like the first fifteen minutes, I'll send you the film, where it was just not much talking and me just just sort of letting letting it out for just trying to collect myself. So it's I've noticed a change, and Katie's noticed sort of a change, and it's only been a slight gradual change, but just sort of where I was at that point and everything that led up to sort of me making that decision.
It just just sort of kept building and building, and eventually everything was bound to boil over and it kind of and I myself, I guess, at that point, didn't really realize it did until I kind of took a second to really analyze every part and not just sort of me and how I'm feeling, but how I'm interacting with my kid, how I'm interacting with my wife, or you know, how I'm communicating, and how I am on a daily, day to day sort of basis with friends and just not being I guess, true to them and
true to myself. It was just sort of I put on this almost like a little act and just sort of say everything, everything's good, everything's fine, you know, things are going well, almost like I'm doing an interview after the game just just sort of the basics that the people want to hear, and underneath I think I knew.
I was sort of lying and lying to them.
But yeah, until we kind of take a second to actually look at it and process it and think, I guess about someone else other than yourself, you kind of see the impact you're having, and it's just not not me. I'm usually pretty pretty upbeat and pretty happy and pretty easy, go lucky.
As my son is staring at us.
Hey buddy, then he swimmers ready to go in the backyard.
Yeah, he's very cute, thank you. He gets it from his mother obviously, But yeah, like even dealing with with him, it just felt like I wasn't really connecting with him or being present in the moment. And that's the last thing I ever wanted to be is sort of passive through life and passive through day today where it's just sort of you get through, run through the motions, and you get through it and you get up and do
it again. The other day, there was there was nothing, I guess real about how I was acting, And yeah, it sort of hit me and really shook me that that that's how I was, and you know, I would be hanging out with the kid and finding other things to kind of distract. I'd go on my phone or turn on TV. Like I wasn't I wasn't there, Like I was just finding ways to kind of pass the time. And that's that's a terrible thing for me to kind of look back and say, that's where I was, but
it's kind of where I was. And yeah, it's been really really nice taking that time away, time to figure myself out, time to find myself again. That now I can just enjoy time with him. And he's growing up quick. I'll tell you that he's two and a half now, But yeah, it's They're very important to me, and I want to make sure that I'm there even you know, because I guess I didn't have that sort of farther figure when I was growing up.
You want to be present, Yeah, exactly.
You're listening to Ordinarily, speaking with basketball star Ryan Brockoff, You've been through so much in the in the last eighteen months from a career perspective, you at COVID, you know, getting cut by Duglas and those sort of things. Do you think it's that or do you think it was the birth of Jackson or a combination of all the above that sort of set this path in process.
I guess probably a little bit of everything. I think it's always kind of been lingering, and during certain times I'd revert back to just kind of finding ways just to get through it and being able to sort of wheel myself back to sort of a normal stage until something else happened and kind of flip flopping back and forth.
And what would would you shut down? Would would you cry? How did you deal with those moments?
Just internalized? Just just sort of shut down. It was never a huge crier until today, make me feel bad.
This is part of my therapy, but yeah, it just just sort of eternalized and just sort of shut down, kepting myself, find ways to just sort of distract myself watching TV or play video game or getting out and just doing something that just sort of takes your mind off things if you're going through a hard time or or something you know, brings up an old memory that you kind of had forgotten about or tried to repress
and push down. And it was very much just keep myself and that's it's not a healthy way to deal with a lot of that stuff. And Katie was good about sort of coaxing a lot of that stuff to get me to talk about it and bring it up. But it's one thing to sort of speak to a loved one that wants you to get it all out,
but in a very sort of safe environment. For me, it was I needed to speak to someone independent to sort of be in a vulnerable state that I needed to just get everything out on the table and get things I guess looked at from a different perspective as to why I was still holding onto it and still affected me. And obviously the last eighteen months were difficult.
We got cut by Dallas, but we're still living there, and then signed by Philly to go to the Bubble a few months later, and we're in Philadelphia, and then my wife got COVID and because she's high risk to do an underlying condition, and my son got sick. We were there as well, but not with COVID, with something else. But so Katie was trying to isolate and I'm getting tested and trying to prepare to fly out to the
Bubble within a four or five days. And then Jack gets sick and I'm spending nights taking him to the emergency room and things like that. And eventually just having to pull the plug from my career. It would have made sense to go and join Philadelphia at that point. They needed tuning, they were interested in in me from you know, for the previous season, and career wise, it
was a good opportunity. But there was no way I was leaving a wife that was high risk and this was early in COVID when there was less information about how it affects and the problems that could cause. And luckily Katie was pretty mild, just just a lot of tigue and things like that. But but yeah, leave those two or or Katie trying to take care of herself when she's sick and Jack sick, and so pulling out of that was it was easy decision for that reason.
I couldn't leave them just to go further my career or try and chase something career wise like bast Well, eventually it's going to be finished, but I want to make sure that least these guys are around and push them away for something something like that. So we're stuck in Philadelphia for a couple of weeks in a small apartment, basically quarantining. I think after that we went back to
Dallas and they were there for a little while. I was trying to get to the bubble later on once sort of Katie and Jack were okay and fine, we're back in Dallas in our house, but was only able to do to the league and bringing players in at that point. But yeah, then it headed into the off season and there was a few teams that were showing interest, and weird everything locked away with one team basically, yep,
all things are good. The gym was like, Okay, we're just going to check with the owner and we'll get back to you sort of tomorrow and a couple days past, and nothing happened, and then Facey said, oh no, we can't do it. So we're left scrambling, and you know, things didn't quite go to plan. We left Philadelphia and went to Michigan to be with sort of Katie's family. I think it was for us. We just needed to see some friendly faces and kind of get away escape
from basketball a little while. And I was still training most days and working out, but there was a bit of a headspin sort of back and forth and this team that team. Yes, no, still sort of getting some calls from NBA teams. Yeah, maybe things may happen, just sort of wait around, and we got to the point where we were just why sort of just keep waiting around on waiting on the hook, And that's when sort of the Phoenix popped up. And yeah, it was sort
of not too long after that. We sort of made a long trip with our son and two weeks quarantine and then yeah, straight into sort of the Phoenix season, jumping straight in and obviously that was very up and down with injuries and my form and everything else to go win with it. So it was just a lot of moving around in a short period of time, a lot of backflipping on things, and a lot of changes. And what sort of really started to worry me was
sort of all those changes within the States. We could see the effect it was starting to have on Jack. So he was always a good sleeper and no worries, but he started to sort of act out and would climb out of his bed and he was in new, unfamiliar places every other week. But it was just a lot for him and he was starting to know just have some effects, and that was a big thing to try and come back to Australia and have something that
we know would be a little bit more settled. I wasn't enjoying basketball during sort of that period of time. Very much became a job that you know, I still did to best of my physical abilities, still put in the world, put in the time, and but I don't think mentally, I just I hadn't I didn't have the
love for it. I didn't enjoy it, which didn't help either, because you know, it's you go to something you don't enjoy every day and you bust in your ass and physically each day you come home tie and you're like, well, what am I doing this for? Like it's it's not it's not providing me with any happiness. It's not providing the family with any happiness or support, support of stability.
It was it was sort of iron for me that it's it's less about me, you know, that sort of young basketball that that doesn't have the responsibilities is able to do that and move around and change and chase these things and put things on hold. But when you got a wife and family and things like that, it puts a lot of things in perspective that I need to to make sure that yes, I'm doing everything I can to support them and do my job.
But it has to.
It has to be in balance. It can't be or tilted towards me, which which it was for a long long time. Katie followed me everywhere around Europe and she did biology and chemistry and she's a lot smarter than I am, and you know, she had things that she was playing to do after college and that sort of up on hold and to sort of follow me around as.
I chase this dream.
But it gets to a point where it's not worth it to keep fighting and scratching and chasing the small chance just to put my family through a lot that they don't need to do when we can sort of come back here to Australia and find some stability and be able to play and enjoy basketball again and also sort of have a stable family life.
That's the thing about the NBA, right, and elite sport, but particularly I think the NBA that people always see that you know, the fame and the money and the glitz and the glam and the big names, but it is brutal, right, particularly if you're not one of the starting five or one of the biggest teams. How brutal was that day with Dallas because it is the club, you know, the franchise that you get your big chance
with and all your dreams come true. Can you tell me about that day and just giving an insight into two fans listening of just how cutthroat EAT is.
I guess yeah. It sort of caught me a little bit by surprise. I had heard that they were thinking of signing a different player. Even of my eighteen months there, when I got opportunities, I felt like I was able to show and do a ride and help the team. We made some big trades my first year where we had a full roster one night and then half the team got traded away the next day and we had another game the next night, and I was like, oh, where is everybody like this? And this got traded to
I think it was for the Porzingis trade. And there was also the trade with Sacramento I think around that time as well. And he's like, oh, so they've gone like, yeah, you got like forty eight hours to once you traded to report to the new city and basically pack your whatever you got head over there.
And that's how it is.
So I think we had like eight or nine for the next game and the next few games while all that was transition was happening, and I felt like that was sort of a good stretch for me. I got to play quite a bit and show quite a bit. And then obviously those new players then integrate into the team, and being sort of lowest on the money tot and pole, you kind of get pushed back to the bench. But you know, with injuries here and there, you'd kind of jump in and jump out and at least was solid
and showed a little bit. And that's kind of how it was. That second year. I started to play a little bit more and then a freak incident the last play in LA and a fracture and the top of my fibula on my left leg, and then I was out six eight weeks with that, and then started to play again and started to find a little bit of form and find sort of a little bit of rotations. And then the day that it actually happened, I was
getting ready. I was like, Okay, this is good game, like I should be able to get get on for here, and then didn't play the game. I was like, oh, that's that's pretty frustrating, And that's how it kind of been. I'd kind of build myself up, like, oh, this is the game, I'll get in and make sure I'm up and ready, and then pretty flat afterwards when when you don't get on and team losers, and and got called
into I think the coach's office. I think it was coach Carlisle's office with Dunnie Nelson the GM, and and basically they just seven down and said the organization has decided to sort of go a different way, and we thank you for sort of the two years of service. And they were actually very very kind about it. And I'd just spoken to Rick a few times afterwards and and things like that, so it wasn't a it wasn't
a bad breakup. But Mum was over there at the time, and they were at the game and they were like, oh, it took a while to get out, and I was sort of not holding back tears, but but sort of they could tell something is wrong, and I was like, I better get these two out of here before I tell them and go storm the GM's office and cause a mess. So scared of your mom, Yeah, so.
Bad timing for them.
But I sort of shuttled them into the car and we had we took two different cars, so basically just told me I've been released. Okay, we'll see you don't go that sort of thing and just try to get them to leave. And I just said, look, I'll probably take the long way home just to sort of clear my head and have a think about it all.
And yeah, it was.
It was sort of sudden, but it's yeah, the turnover rate over then in the NBA, with trades and signings and waving it it's it's pretty it's pretty brutal.
What was that drive home? Like?
Oh, I was just sort of you think about what you could have done better, or if you did enough, or you know what, what what are we going to do next.
It happened.
Just after the trade period, and I had heard that Philadelphia had tried to actually trade for me, so they were looking for shooting to put around Ben Simmons and Embiid and they didn't have a lot of shooting sort of that at that point, and Dallas the kind of said no, no, we we're pretty happy with him and things like that, so they went and traded for a couple other guys and then yeah, not too long af after that was sort of and I was released and
then I was like, oh, well, it's an opportunity maybe missed and so it was just sort of, oh, wait, they didn't want me, Why didn't they sort of trade me? And you know what's sort of next, am I we're going to be able to find another team?
What are we going to do?
Do we have to you know, sell the house and move and you know everything else that happens with Did you.
Feel the responsibility of not just your own career, but being a dad and being a husband and yeah.
Jack was six months old or eight months old at that stage, like, okay, well, it's just yeah, it's just unfortunately, Yeah, it's just unfortunately part of that business. It's it's very cutthroat, and there's so many good players all over the world trying to buy into I think it's four hundred and fifty spots or something in the NBA.
Throughout this whole period, though, you're basically not acknowledging that anything's invertedcom is wrong with you? At what point did you go, I'm not okay and now I need help?
Yeah? Probably not for still a while.
I was probably still looking for reasons or you know, who else can kind of be to blame. Sounds terrible. I guess I typically am pretty hard on myself. Anyway, and this was sort of like, well, I obviously did
something wrong, but you know what else, who else? And all those thoughts, But it probably wasn't until back over here and after it all, and I think having a little bit more spility in the personal life, everything sort of caught up to me, if that makes sense, Like most Knights would just lay awake and just sort of think about everything that had just happened and what was going to happen next, and you know, what could I
have changed or done better? And it just sort of I think everything caught up to me a lot over here and just built up and I felt, I guess I still do feel. It's I don't know if it's regret or shame or or what for not being able to sort of make it in the NBA or not being able to sort of stick so that that was another thing, and it's I think I think it all
just eventually just caught up to me. I finally took my head out of the sand and realized everything that it changed and the effects was having on the family and instead of I didn'tternalize it, but it got to a point where I just couldn't keep it all down and then I had the Olympics coming up and the tryouts and things.
Like that, and I just, I don't know. It was one nine. I was just I looked at my wife.
I said, I don't know if I can do it, Like I don't know if I can actually get up
and do it. You know, we'd spent sort of six weeks at the end of the season with run away from COVID, and then you know there was going to be another six seven weeks with the national team and just not in a good place physically, run in a good place mentally, and making that decision was it was hard because I understood the opportunity to represent your country and Olympic Games is so few and far between, and the excitement of the squad and obviously leading to bronze,
but I physically just just couldn't bring myself to do it or mentally allow myself to leave and to go do that. I don't know. It was just it just it was a sinking feeling in my stomach that I just couldn't get rid of it, no matter how many times I tried to convince myself for just to argue with my own self, my own head as to as to yeah you can, and you know you regret this and everything like that. I I couldn't do it, and it's very tough, But looking back now, there there's no
regrets that I didn't go. There was no part of me that thinks I would have been better off or family would have been better off if I did go. It would have been be great to have the bronze medal hanging around somewhere, but I don't know if for me, the last thing that I wanted to do was to not be myself at something like that and to impact the team in a negative way where I'm becoming an distraction or I'm not able to be fully involved in or fully not just involved. But yeah, just something like
that is such a short amount of time. You have to be so on top of everything and fully on board, and I couldn't. I couldn't be that way. I couldn't do it during you know, a regular season here with the Phoenix, where I just I wasn't me how how I was I supposed to go with you know, such
a big event like that, with so much pressure and expectations. Yeah, I would have worried about myself and the impact that would have caused and that would have that would have been something I regretted if I had been a reason as to why the team didn't achieve what it could achieve, or be a distraction that impacted a.
Lot of you guys are obviously really close. Did any of them know how bad it was for you? No?
No, no, no, no, no.
I mean yeah, real close.
And I've not dallied over like we went to the As together at sixteen and played against each other before that and know each other a long time and always always kept in touch, and national team's always been a great way to reconnect.
After long seasons. But I don't know. Maybe it was because I.
Don't, I guess, open up a bout all of that stuff and have that quiet personality that people just think that that's just how I am and how I annoy I am, and that everything's fine. So it wasn't something that I wanted sort of out there or to be known. You kind of feel like you're letting people down or you're I don't know whether you should be sort of ashamed for, I guess having these feelings and having these
worries as an athlete. You sort of seen as an athlete that should be able to just get up and perform, and you know, the personal side doesn't really impact the professional side when it when it clearly does and we're you know, I'm more than just a basketball player, and yeah, but it's something that I definitely kept myself for a long time and it's been very freeing to finally say something and get it out there and be able to deal with it.
What do you think your friends, your family, your teammates are going to think when they listen.
To this, Hopefully just a just an understanding of what went into sort of my decision with obviously with the national team, and just just maybe sort of fill in some gaps, especially with friends and stuff as to periods where I wasn't sort of me or a little bit more reserved than what I had been, and just why I am the way I am today that taking care of the two two outside ones trying to get in that taking care of those two is far and away
more important to me than anything else. And the reasons why that is why why I don't want to sort of repeat or I guess put my family through some of the stuff that I went through.
And is that why you've decided to speak up, I guess, like you say, trying to break the cycle, I guess, but also help anyone else out there who's feeling those things because it's so common, isn't it that you use the word shame and embarrassment and those sort of things. But it shouldn't be at all how people feel.
It should it shouldn't be. But yeah, you when you're kind of going through, yeah, you're very conscious of how other people perceive you, and being an athlete here and especially I guess in the basketball world, a higher profile. The last thing I wanted to do was let people down or not live up to what I was supposed to live up to with expectations and things like that.
But if someone does take something from my story or sees that this can affect anybody or you're going through something similar, that if someone then takes it and says, Okay, I need to get some help. I've been dealing with this sort of stuff and I've been feeling this way, and I haven't been myself and I have been a lot more negative than I usually have been, or having troubled thoughts or something like that, that Okay, it's there's signs that sort of indicators it maybe it's time to
get some help. And it took me a long time, but yeah, a big reason why I'm open and honest and trying to be trying to be that way after so long of just sort of doing the regular interviews and saying all the right things and just sort of going through the motions.
At a time. I genuinely think I'm a massive basketball fan. You know how much I love your three. I think it's the prettiest three in the in the game. But I genuinely think that your legacy is going to be this having heard your story, and I knew a little bit coming into this, but obviously I didn't know all of it. I genuinely think this is going to be your your greatest legacy. Do you wish you got help sooner or did it just you needed to take that amount of time to get to where you are now.
I do know getting help earlier not would fix things or make things change a lot of things, but for me on a personal level, would have allowed me to handle and process a lot of stuff a lot differently and be a little bit more proactive with that.
So I kind of do it.
My wife tells me I should listen to her all the time and that she's always right, but in this case, she was and she's been as you know, with me day and Dawn out.
For Oh gosh, it feels like forever.
Now.
You met way back in college.
I did, so, Yeah, I don't know. We're coming up on nine years together. I hope I'm right. I remember the wedding anniversary, so that's all it matters. But yeah, she of all people to sort of see changes in the day to day lifestyle, she would be the one. And she, you know, years ago, said you probably need to to speak to somebody, and I wish I did. But I think for a lot of people it's almost.
On their own timeline.
Like you can try and force someone or encourage someone, but until they kind of reach I don't know if I reached a rock bottom por se, but a point where they're able to reflect and really see it for themselves. It goes in one ear and out the other. I myself didn't think that I needed it. You have to get to a certain point before you actually can acknowledge it, and I think that's the only time that you really if you do go and get helpy, actually can be open and.
Honest Are you doing better now? How are you doing?
Yeah, it's still still working through some stuff, but definitely feel a lot lighter day to day, being able to enjoy things, not sort of getting too anxious about the past or what's the car, more worried about too many things. It's more so being able to stay in the moment and be happy in the moment and be very sort of thankful for the life that we have and get that joy back in basketball and in playing. And I didn't realize how much I missed it over the last
couple of years. The enjoyment and the fun, the reason I got into it as a kid, and when I found love with it as a kid, that was gone for it for a while. And to kind of get that back at I guess you'd say that a later
end of my career. It's been almost like a new Lis on life, Lisa on basketball, and Yeah, and may prolong my bastel, or at least give me the film and enjoyment that I want from it before I get a little too old and I get a little too slow, And I'm still gonna be able to shit the three, but but all the other parts are going to fall without all the parts. So yeah, just just make sure that basketball's on the finite career and that I enjoyed
and get the filming out of it. Otherwise, why am I doing it?
I messaged Katie or spoke to Katie, your wife heading into this one, and I as part of the phone call, I asked her why she loves you, what it is about you that she loves, and she spoke at the time of how humble you were and the fact that you know, you would stay there and signing autographs until the lights literally went out in arenas and those sort of things. But she sent me a text afterwards and said, I just wanted to add a little bit more as to why I love Ryan. He's a great father to Jack,
and Jack loves his dad so much. He's so kind towards me and understanding. He really hears me and cares about what I think. Obviously, his career determines a lot of what our life looks like, but he values my opinion. He knows it affects more than just himself. That can be seen throughout his career. When I got sick with COVID, him putting us ahead of an NBA opportunity and putting our family's health above his last Olympics or this last Olympics. I should say, I'm not you out next one. It
does say this last Olympics. When I do speak, he listens. We truly have a partnership because no one else can understand what we've been through in this life thus far. It's the two of us in the trenches. That's what has helped us in life, as we have always had each other's back, because sometimes all we had was one another. It's a pretty nass triviut that.
Yeah, it's like I've wrote it myself.
Now.
She's a good one, and yeah, even our time together hasn't always been smooth sailing, and very lucky to have found someone like her.
Do you, because I hope you do. Do you look at your son now and are you kinder to yourself for what you went through and who you are now and the pressures you put on yourself? Because when you look at your little boy and you imagine yourself at that age and growing up and everything you went through, are you kinder to yourself?
I think I'm just aware of the impact even at a young age like my son, is that I can have both positive and negative and why I want to be as present as possible during his childhood. I don't know if that makes it makes me take it easier actually sort of harder on myself to make sure that putting more pressure just to make sure that I am I am there when I say it will be. And I just want him to have as smooth a childhood and as he can and happy and healthy. That's really
all I care about. Now that I'm a dad, sort of think how my dad would have been, and I think he really enjoyed a lot of this sort of stuff and seeing not just where I've been, but the rest of the siblings and how they've grown. And I feel sad that he was gone so young and not able to.
Do that.
And it's just something I think that has always been in my head that I want a family, and I want a big family. My wife doesn't want a huge family, but that, oh, I hear the kid crying, but that my family is going to be the most important thing to me, and to be present and to be as involved as I can be. I've seen, I guess firsthand, the other way that it goes and the effects he can have and the growing up, how challenging it can be, and I don't want that for my son.
Thank you for being as honest as you have and for even allowing me into your home and to share this story. I've loved watching you play.
I know.
The good news for me is that you're now back in the NBA when us I was, your fans see plenty more of us, So we're loving watching you for Southeast Melbourne and I just hope there's many more years to come in many more highlights.
No, just just a big thank you and the big check for our therapy session being in the mail. Can you just send me an itemizing voice for It's a big thank you. It's not always easy talking about this sort of sort of stuff, but I very much appreciate that the platform to be able to do this, and I feel very comfortable to be able to talk about this stuff with you. And maybe thank you for thinking
to me with your podcast. And I love the work you're doing with this and looking at athletes, I guess not just much as athletes, but people as people, not just the things that they do. Thank you time.
Once again, thank you to Ryan and his family for sharing their story. Please remember if this chat was triggering for you, or there is someone you know who may need help. Beyond Blue dot org, dot AU, Lifeline one three, double, one, one four or one eight hundred respect are just a
few places you can go. If you enjoyed this episode, you may also be interested in the chat with former Wildcats champion Greg Hire from season two and if you want to get in touch at Narrowly Underscore Meadows on Twitter or at ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram.
Thanks for listening.
A new episode of Ordinarily Speaking will drop on Wednesday,