Ordinarily Speaking. Most people can have one or two drinks on a night out, whereas I was pissing my life and career up the wall. Soon time.
Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a sports podcast that celebrates resilience and gets to know the human side of the athletes you've come to know and love from Afar. My name is Narrowly Meadows and my guest today is a blowco I'm lucky enough to call a friend. Peter Siddle is a former Test cricketer. He played sixty seven Tests for Australia, taking two hundred and twenty one wickets. He's decided to give the international side of things away,
but continues his domestic career. Lots of people will know him as the vegan, non drinking fast bowler from Victoria, a man known as the ultimate team man. But what lots of people may not know is the reason he gave up drinking. He had a serious problem, and in this episode he talks about it for the first time. I hope you enjoyed the chat again well, SiZ, thanks very much for joining me.
Not problem at all, looking forward to it.
I moved to Melbourne about eight years ago and you and I would have met over the years before that, because your test career had already started and you were well and truly getting into it. But on this particular occasion, I remember it was late.
At night and or early morning.
Or early morning, one of the two, and I was in a cab and I went to get out of the cab and suddenly this bloke appeared at the window and just started on the cab door and and basically acting like a bit of a lunatic. And I suddenly went, hang on, that's that's Peter Siddle. He plays test cricket for Australia. And I thought, he's really shouldn't be behaving like that in public. And I was, you know, a journalist. Luckily I wasn't a journalist that was going to take
out my phone and start recording you. But you would have no recollection of that night. But it's not the person that everyone knows. Now what sort of headspace were you in back then?
Pretty pretty free and pretty just not a worry in the world, I think, which sounds likely to be fun and and and and that I'm in a good and a good place and going well. But I think at the time I didn't probably feel it and see it, but it probably wasn't until laid down the track that when I look back, I realized that, yeah, I wasn't in a great place and I was pretty much, yeah, borderline probably you could say alcoholic in a way. Yes
it was only a binge drinker. But the amount I was probably binge drinking on the on those times was very excessive. And I think the worrying thing that everyone goes, oh, yeah, but that's what you know, that's what people do, and that's what everyone, every young person does on weekends, and
that's fine. But I think the bigger picture was that I'd have these blackouts, and the blackouts wouldn't pass me out or you know, stop me from doing things, and it just just meant that I wouldn't remember things, which is yeah, like I said, at the time, you don't really worry about it too much, but now they'll look back on it that it's pretty scary really, and just to think that, yeah, the situations I probably put myself in at times could have been a lot worse for me.
Like you said that, yeah, you would journo and you could have quite easily even just something small in the paper or in the news about me. But yeah, obviously you didn't and thankfully for that.
But it's you didn't do anything too bad for an affair.
Statement, correct. And that's what I think worries me the most is over the years when I was probably at my worst with the alcohol and going through these blackouts, people go, yes, I've had them, and oh, yeah, I've had him a handful of times. That's what people say. You know, gone out two hundred times and only had them five times. It's that's pretty good. Whereas I'm the opposite.
I go out two hundred times, and maybe one hundred and seventy of those times, I wouldn't remember a certain amount of hours in the night, and it might sometimes it might be one hour, two hours. Other nights it could be a whole five to six seven hours that you have no recollect I have no recollection of. And I think like talking to people, I think, when I
met Anna, is your wife now? And wife now? And then just talking to her about nights out, like we we'd go out together and then we come home and I'd miss I'd miss hours and chat to her about it and she'd go, oh you like you'll find like, yeah, you're drunk. And you were and you weren't in a good way. But like, I'd still have conversations with people, I'd still be dancing, having fun, but personally, in the next day, I wouldn't have remembered X amount of hours.
So how much would you drink in a night?
Oh, ridiculous amounts? I think, you know, like I was, Probably I was in a good place. I was playing test cricket, so I'd get looked after it a lot of places, which you know, it's a great thing. You know, You've got a lot of friends in high places, and obviously they spoil you. I had a lot of mates that, yeah, ran and owned clubs and and I think, yeah, you just sort of lose track of what you're doing. I'd
be I'd be going up, I'd be goldering drinks. I'd be having shots at the bar while I was waiting for my drink to get get finished. Yes, it could be an excess of you know, people probably laughing. You're probably talking twenty five thirty drinks, could be more, depending on you know, like that, how long the day's been, how long the night's been, how much money and how
many days it's been. Ridiculous amounts? I think I'm probably lucky I didn't gamble, because gambling with the amount I was drinking probably could have been Yeah, it could have been a huge danger. So thankfully for that. But I look back on it now and I think when we talk about it, I sort of break it down to I was saying I was spending a thousand, on average, one thousand dollars a week just on whether it was food drink, like going out food drinks.
How long has it been since you've had a drink.
We're in February and we're coming up to May. So May fifteen, twenty twelve, it was the last time I touch the drop of alcohol, so coming up eight years, which, yeah, it's pretty exciting really that. Yeah, to be sober that long, not sort of you know, like I don't even think
about drink. And that's the big thing I think. You know, a lot of people, yeah obviously try and do it and say how hard it is, But I guess it's just about you just got to wake up sometimes and you know, look look at try and make life better. And I think when you're going through the times I was having, I was probably thinking I was having a lot of fun. I'm not going to lie. At the time, I was having a lot of fun, meeting a lot
of people. But I think, yeah, it's now that I look back on it that scares me the most about what I was doing. I think, you know, just the position I was put myself in and just the things that could have happened.
You use the word alcoholic before. Are you serious about the use of that word.
I think so because I think I think if I just said I was a binge drinker, that it probably makes it sound better, and you know, it makes it look better for everyone else, and people probably you know, people probably listen to it and go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, drinks on the weekend, you know, but yeah, sometimes weekends might have been you know, three, four, sometime five days in a row. That's like, it's not I wouldn't sit
at home, like at dinner and have a drink. I didn't actually like, as weird as this probably sounds, I didn't actually like alcohol. I just liked the fact to get get drunk have fun.
You're trying to mask something. Because to drink to that extent or any sort of vice, whether it's gambling to that extent, most people were trying to to self medicate.
I don't think so. I think I think I was just trying to I was probably a little bit the opposite. I've never been. I've been in a pretty good place, I think most of the time mentally obviously, Yeah, I travel a lot. There's not a lot of time at home and around friends and family, so you could think that it possibly could have been to something, but I think it was just more of the other way that I was probably trying to be, you.
Know, embrace the lifetime.
Yeah, yeah, and the biggest celebrity you know. Just yeah, I was just trying to make the most of probably where I was in the yeah, I don't know, in the celebrity status at the time. You know, I was playing test cricket for Australia, I was doing really well, I was earning good money. I was probably just trying to live it up too much.
So when you'd black out, what's the worst thing that somebody told you you did the next day?
There's a few that, yeah, sort of come to mind, and I think, Yeah, the first thing before I get to that is, yeah, I'd wake up and it was literally like my pants, pocket, phone, wallet, that's what I look for. Then you get the phone, and you'd go through like messages or phone calls or yeah, who you spoke to, trying it a rough idea when you got home, how long you've been home? Got no idea.
Whether you're home?
Yeah, that was probably that was probably water this set the first time was yeah to actually, yeah, to see where I am. But yeah, then your phone wallet, so you messaged hopefully you haven't done anything, but yeah, I think.
But there are occasions that you did.
Yeah, and I think you know, there's obviously Yeah, I've done lot loads of things, whether it's you know, put myself in bad situations. I remember I drove one time. This sound great, but yeah, I'd parked. This is real early doors. I'd been out my cars at a mate's house down in down in mentone, and i'd been out at a buckstoo, been out all night. I thought would be a good idea to drive home. So I drove
all the way from from there too. I was living in an apartment building in Parkville, So yeah, drove home.
How long a drivers aren't it's.
Probably fifty minutes. Fifty minutes across town and kill someone and yeah, like you don't think much of it. I think the probably only woke up people trying to call see how it was loads of miss calls and hadn't
woken up in any of those. I woke up to my door opening, and at my apartment, there's only one way you could get in, like, you couldn't get to my level unless you had had a key, and there's only one person or two people that had that key, and that was my parents, and they lived an hour forty five away from the apartment, and in walk my dad. I stayed in bed. He just made sure I was okay,
checked on me, went downstairs, checked my car. There's three levels underneath on the ground, parked in between a couple of pillars. There's nothing wrong with it, so that's obviously a safe thing because he's probably just thinking. He's not worried about my car. He's just worried about if there is something wrong with it, what have I hit? Who
have I hit? And then he came back up, said my car was had a quick little chat to me for about ten minutes, and then me just been in that state and not thinking about how far he's driven to get there. So it's about two hours by now that he's been on the road and it is. Yeah, I just pretty much said, yeah, cheers, thanks, that all good and went back to sleep, and he pretty much just walked straight out, jumped in his car and drove home, and yeah, like stuff like that.
You just he didn't know if you were alive. That is that being too dramatic to say that.
No, they had no idea I could have been He didn't even know if I was there. That's the other thing. That's just the first place he went, and.
He'd been contacted by your mates or whoever, because yeah.
No one could get onto me. I driven the car. Yeah, so that was that was his obviously first point. That and lucky I was in bed, so that was fine. But just the fact that, yeah, I just sort of dismissed him. I'm not dismissed him, but just didn't think of the how much of effort he he'd made to get up there and make sure I was okay. So then yeah, just go back to sleep, him, jump in the car, drive home.
How does it make you feel now when you think about it?
Disgusting? Disgusting. I think just yeah, just I always just think back. It's just things that could have happened, you know, like I know other sportsmen, you know, like I had a mate that I spent a bit of time with, Danny Cipriani hasn't got a great rap, but he got hit on a celebration Mad Monday thing over in England after a rugby game, hit by a bus. He was in hospital for six weeks. Obviously he was fine after a bit of a knee and during that kind of
thing I remember hearing about her. It was a South African bloke played in the Super fifteen's, had been out of a nightclub and he yeah, he passed away by leaving and leaving a nightclub and getting hit by a bus. They're the things that scare me the most, I think, just thinking back that my life, that I could have put myself in danger driving the car. Yeah, you never want to say silly things. But it's not the only
time I did it. You know, I've probably done it three or four times, driving while sometimes knowing what I was doing, but pretty drunk and just yeah, thinking you're invincible, and other times and not doing silly things, but just the fact that yeah, the state you're in and doing it and yeah, and then just yeah, obviously get yeah. Stuff that's happened to other people bad things whilst they've been intoxicated, and just think back that, you know, they
could have quite easily been me. Yeah, and just just that more and more there are other people that you're that you're affected along the way. I had no not yeah, probably remorse or like I just didn't have any sense awareness of what they like, how they felt, how they're feeling, or.
What you're putting them through.
Yeah, what I'm putting them through.
Did you ever talk to your dad about that afterwards?
Nah? I still I still haven't to this day talked about it. I think I think just because it makes me so sick. I was just selfish. That's probably what it comes down to it. The most is I did everything for myself, still looked after people on the way while I was doing it, But I was very selfish towards other people, how I treated people. I think that's
because I haven't spoken a lot about it. I think that's where people, you know, when I went through all the changes and everything like that, they sort of just look back and go, oh, you're an idiot, what are
you doing? But I didn't feel comfortable back then, you know, talk about the situations that i'd been in I'd put myself through to obviously get me to that position now where I'm happy to talk about it, especially to younger guys or my teammates more so because we're in a lucky place that yes, we earn pretty good money and we get to live a pretty good lifestyle, and we got looked after quite well when we go out and
about and through different contacts and stuff like that. But I'll try and tell them as much as I can, because at the end of the day then they can make their own decision. If they stuff up, so be it. But least I've given them pure evidence of what it can do, how bad it can get. If it helps one player or stops one player not from drinking, but you know, just maybe drinking a bit smarter, then I feel I've achieved something.
Tell me about the ashes and the night that you almost almost beat someone up. Is that a fair summary?
Yeah? Pretty much, I think yes this. Yeah, it was early on my Test career two thousand and nine ashes and first Ashes trip, but only been playing six months. And yeah, we won a good Test match in Headingley and Brad Hadden and I am very close mates still to this day. One of my best mates and yeah we'll out and about with Michael Clark and yeah we'd had a long night and it was early hours of
the morning. And yeah, obviously over in England there's always people hanging shit on you and you know, getting stuck in and bit of banter. And we've come out of this. I don't know, min It's just like a little food placed early hours in the morning, having some hot chips and the kabab, I think. And yeah, they kept mouthing off and Hads and I both pretty agro blokes at the best of times. Let alone with you know, our guts full of alcohol and not in a good place.
And yeah, pretty much we proceeded to you know, walk towards him and approach him and have a go back, and yeah, sort of jumped forward a bit. It wasn't till the next morning when I woke going down to breakfast, you know, the pretty hungover, not thinking much about, not remembering much of the last night. On the first bloke I see, he's waiting down in the interception for me as the media manager, which is one of my good mates. So that's fine. He's like Seid's we've got a bit
of a problem. I'm like, oh, I know, and he's like, I've got a video, and I'm like, oh no, what's going on here? Then he shows me the video thankfully Obviously, oh nine, videos and camera weren't quite as good as they are these days, so it's probably saved me to an extent. But Yeah, he'd been sent a video from
one of the one of the papers over there. These guys had pretty much set us up in a way, probably thinking that we wouldn't react, and Yeah had videoed about fifteen seconds of me pretty much approaching them mouthing off back at him. There wasn't a lot of their mouthing off in the in the video, funnily enough, and Yeah pretty much proceeded to get grab a bloke and had him by the throat up against the wall, and
then it cuts out. So I woke up in a good place, as in, there was nothing wrong with me, so obviously it didn't. Nothing must have eventuated after that, but you don't remember. I don't remember a thing. Literally, Yeah woke up. Yeah. Then at the first I had actually heard about it, even though I committed it was Yeah off the media manager from the video he'd sent. And then Yeah, thankfully that there probably wasn't clear enough and they didn't run it, so nothing ever came of it.
So they couldn't prove it was you though you knew.
Yeah, yeah, you could pretty much tell that, you know, the rough, rough picture of the clothes that I was willing and and the voice and stuff like that you could sort of tail, but probably not enough just to throw it out there.
So stuff like that can cost a career.
They can. Same as all the other stories, is that, yeah, you don't think about it at the time, like I did not even other than you know, getting a little reprimand like I got in a bit of trouble from the from the manager captain obviously Pana the coach at the time. Yeah, I wasn't. I was in a lot of trouble, you know. But yeah, it's not not not to get put out in the public eye, I think,
you know. That's that saved me a lot, just probably not so much from getting in trouble, but more just probably reputation wise and things like that, like, yeah, some people that could easily just get straight in the press and come out of it for a really bad perception of what you are as a person or who you are, and.
Did you take it seriously though at the time, no, probably not.
I was what it was two thousand and nine. Yeah, was only twenty four, playing cricket for Australia. Yeah, I'm opening the bar and you got away with it. Yeah, and yeah, I don't even think twice. Yeah I got away with it. Oh yeah, I'll calm down my drinking a little bit. I pulled my head in a little bit. But that's the thing. I'd go through those little phases where my pull on my head in would be for
you know, two more weeks serious finishes. You have a big one, you go home, you back with your mates, and same thing happens again. You're out having drink, having fun, catching up with people, and you were going out having the blackouts on benders.
Is that fair to say? Like days and days on end.
Yeah, I could go for days and I think, yeah, but this is able to sort of hide it, not even sometimes not even really hiding it, but just be able to, you know, get by doing it. I think I could rock up the training. I could train hard. I could get through it and then go home sleep all day just to just to recover, and and then you know, get closer to the weekend again and you just sort of restart it and and and go and go again.
So warning at the ashes, your dad, you know, not knowing whether you're alive or not. What was you know, the drink driving. What was the thing that eventually stopped you.
I think I was just I was putting myself in really bad positions. And obviously i'd started to seeing my wife Anna then and I just had Yeah, I just wasn't treating her right and the people around me in the in the sort of years leading up to that, up to the time when I stopped, I was always getting questioned whether it was by you know, the boss
of cricket Cricket Victoria. He pretty much you know, he knew I was probably enjoying myself too much and having too much fun around Melbourne and around the around the club scene and even chatting to him now he looks back on it, and he got to a point where he knew I wouldn't be honest with him about you know, who was hanging around, how much I was drinking, what I was getting up to. All he could do then,
and to his credit he did. He just became like when he'd asked me, he wouldn't you know, you've been going out too much. He wouldn't ask the serious questions that he probably did at the start. In the end, it was just like, he's not going to tell me the truth. I'm just going to make sure he's okay. That's my boss at CRIUK of Victoria. That's someone that you shouldn't be. He shouldn't even be, you know, get getting trying to get on the wrong side of and yeah,
so he got to that point. You know, I had my managers ringing me up, making sure I was okay. They'll hearing things from other players checking in on me, but I'd always no, no, I'm doing all right. And I was doing all right, but the drinking side of things, I wasn't doing with that. I was partying too hard. I was just getting getting out of control. And I think I was just getting all my relationships that were
real close to me. I was just in a way just lying to them all, sort of just hiding behind the fact that I was trying to enjoy life at the fullest off the field, whilst I was doing that on the field. A young man, yeah, and I was, yeah, young man on good money, on money that I never thought i'd be able to earn and just pretty much pissing it up the wall to an extent. Yeah, I'd obviously got myself into some bad situations that could have cost me a relationship with my now wife.
So she knows you're doing this podcast. We spoke yesterday, So tell me about that weekend and what happened.
Yeah, yeah, it was obviously i'd been on a bender and yeah, just same sort of thing. Have my blackouts, which has happened in many of times. She comes home with me with comes home to my place with someone else in the room with me, which obviously, yeah, I don't remember much of because I was in the state that I was pretty much every weekend. And yeah, it was tough, because I think the preceding days were just
as tough. Well at the time they probably weren't, but trying to understand what had happened without obviously I'd do these things, but I wouldn't remember them. So the hardest part was I've done something wrong and really wrong, but trying to yeah, actually get there. I don't make sense of it because I don't really know other than you know, obviously she's really angry at me, very angry at me.
Do you remember that moment when she walks.
In very rarely other than watch how she's recalled to me?
Yeah?
No, which what did she say? Just how disgusting it was and how bad it was? I think, yeah, But I think the worst thing was then the preceding days that because I just the easiest way to forget about it, or not in a way forget about it and try and think that it just go away, was that I just left the house and just went on a bender for another couple of days, just thinking that it disappear, which obviously it's not going to. And it was pretty much after that that I sat down with her once
i'd sort of come to and sew it up. She pretty much picked me up from I think some nightclub early hours of the morning. We needed to talk and that's when I pretty much just broke down. Obviously, yes, I'd fucked up, and but I knew that I wanted I wanted her to be in my life. For me, then it was just about how can I obviously keep her because the situation I put myself in, what I've done, and so yeah, obviously I begged her to death, but
also I knew things had to change. Then I had a mate come around to my house while she was there who had pretty much had seen my downfall. But you know, similar to all my other relationships, whether it was friends, people that cared for me and my well being, probably didn't know the full picture. And that's when, yeah, I pretty much just broke down in front of them
for hours. Just yeah, just was. I was living two lives in a way that yeah, I was living the party boy life and then trying to be a cricketer. But not just a cricketer that just rocks up on a weekend and plays you know, forty overs and then hangs out of the boys I was. I was an Australian cricketer and at the time, you know, pretty much close to my peak and my powers, and I was pretty much, yeah, I was just throwing it all away.
I was throwing away the closest relationship I had friendships, and I was putting even the people that cared for me the most, which is you know, Cricket Victoria and Cricket Australia, the ones that employ me and probably have as much as I have a lot to lose. The situations that I potentially could have put them in in the states that I was getting myself in. They could have lost a hell of a lot more than I
may have lost. I might have lost my career, but they could potentially could have lost, you know, sponsorship deals. I know it's only small things and things that they could probably get to get away with, but like to go with obviously a relationship that I wasn't caring about and putting in that situation and in the relationships all around me, I was just literally going downhill.
You're a pretty happy, go lucky guy these days, but you're quite emotional talking about this, ain't you.
Yeah, And I think I sort of look back on it and realize how lucky I am to actually be able to live my life now. Yeah, just and doing what I do. I'm still, thankfully enough. She's my wife now and she's stuck by me all that time.
How do you feel about what you put Anna through at that time?
Disgusting, Absolutely disgusting. I think just just just to do that to someone and someone you love, that's that's the bigger thing. I think I would have done it to, you know, I would have hurt multiple other people, but that was the one there. But the love for that like you don't. You don't love those as much as not as being in a rude way. You don't love the other people that you have relationships as much as
you love someone that you actually care for. And you know, I wanted to spend the rest of my life with and luckily, luckily I have been to do that.
Would you have stuck with you through all of that?
Probably not, I think you know, the person I was then, I probably would have just laughed at myself and just when I'm when I'm a merry way and just thought, you know, and yeah, I think that's that time. I think people are you always need something bad to happen as much as you don't want it to make a significant change. And I don't think I would have done it as much as I hate that time. And I think she'd probably admit it that if I didn't have
such an extreme and significant moment, I'd probably still be drinking. Yeah, i'd I'd be loose. I wouldn't I'd guaranteed I wouldn't be with her, And there's a chance I probably wouldn't
have been. I probably would have been sacked from cricket by the time before I even got the thirty which you know, I think that's why how you said about how you go lucky, That's why I think I've lived since then with such freedom and such you know, love for the game and just I just want to enjoy it because all honestly, I wouldn't have been playing cricket at thirty and here I am at thirty five, just finished up with Australia, but you know, like and still
with the intention to play domestic cricket around here and in England for ever how long I can, which you know, could end up being ten years after the time I thought I was done. I could potentially, you know, play for another decade, longer than I probably would have got to.
When you think about those few days, so that that happened and I finds you, then you have the bender and everything? Is it humiliating? Like what what is the Does it feel like a different person now? Like did you you embarrassed? Like how do you how do you differentiate and how do you feel about that person in that moment?
Yeah? Disgusted? I try not to. Actually, I don't know whether it's just because I tried blocking a lot of things out. I don't I don't have the best memory of a lot of things in my past from then, but even before then, I think I don't want to know that person. There's probably the best way of putting it. And I admit I had fun, I enjoyed it, but I don't enjoy the person that was doing that, and that was a person back then. I've always tried to
look forward. I've never tried to look back. That's one little motto I've always had with myself is not to worry about anything that's happened, whether it's from a cricket point of view, in life, try not to worry about them, whether it's even with a selection and injury and stuff
like that, because you can't control them. You can control your behavior, yes, But even though I could control that, silly as it sounds, I wasn't really in control because I'd have these blackouts and I wouldn't know which is. Like I said, I've said it many times, but that's the scariest thing that always scares me is how often I had those blackouts, and how often, yeah that I couldn't remember things that had happened, or more to the point,
things that potentially could have happened. Now, I want to look back on it.
You're listening to Ordinarily speaking with special guest Peter Siddle. This podcast is about resilience and human stories and overcoming knowing that all of that happened that and it did stick by you, that your parents stuck by you. How much does it mean to you? And how proud are you of the fact that you did give it up then?
Because the friendship that we have has been whilst you've been sober and you can still go out with the best of her and last, you know, for as long and always have a smile on your face, how proud of yourself are you and the people around you that you got through that.
I'm probably more proud of the people that are around me more than myself. I think anything I set my mind to, I'm good at succeeding in. I think as an athlete in general, that we've got addictive personalities, so traits are hard to break. But that's what makes us good sportsman, is that, you know, we dedicate so much addicted to winning, addicted to being good at our sport, so to break that was always going to be tough. Yeah,
I think just the people that stuck around me. I think I have there, they'd be many of friends that I probably don't talk to as much as I probably did when I was you know, that person going out and partying. And I think it's just the people that are stuck by me, the people that I know that are close to me now that I can talk to and communicate with. But and as the biggest one that I'm most proud of and appreciative of, because she sacrificed a lot then obviously when you know, she gave me
a chance to potentially, you know, stay together. But I had but things had to change, and the initial part was I needed to stop drinking. I was in a little bit of trouble with Cricket Australia at the time as well for obviously just getting a bad rap for obous just drinking and being out and putting them in rough circumstances really and potentially you know, critical ones. So yeah, I went and saw a doctor, had brain scans and stuff done, just to check why was I getting these blackouts?
Like even the doctor would say that he always hears of people having them, but not as frequent frequently as me. He nearly choked when I told him how much alcohol I'd drink on a night and a day over a weekend. But I think, you know, I made sure that I did everything right then to make sure that I could move forward, not just for me, but obviously my relationship with Anna and then start making the changes. And yeah,
I banned myself that first the first year. I wasn't going to step foot in a c or a pub at all, not even to go in there, and not even to go in there with mates, to celebrate, going there for a meal with the boys. Nothing, and to do that obviously, and I had to sacrifice as well that I was going to do that. So she sacrificed not every weekend, but to stay around and do stuff with me on the weekend, whether it was go to the movies, go out for dinner, just steer clear of
pubs and clubs. It's only something small. No one else told me they had to do that. It's just something I want to do for myself. And I had no end date to when I was gonna, you know, at that time, it was I'll probably start, I might start drinking again, but I wanted to stop for a substantial amount of time.
Is it forever now it is now?
Yeah, Yeah, I think I've gone long enough. There's too many there's there's too many scary things that I think about that, and I know that with my will willpower that i'd actually be able to just have a few drinks and go out. But like I said earlier, that I didn't actually enjoy alcohol. I just I enjoyed it to get me drunk, which you know, I could drink shots, red wine, white wine, cocktails, beers, spirits, I'd drink everything
under the sun in a night out. But it was just to, yeah, just to get drunk, try and impress people, which yeah, I didn't have to do, but like what but that's what I tried doing. So yeah, so no, I'm happy. Yeah, coming up eight years and I think initially we had it was leading into the back to back Ashes where we played in England and we came home, played in Australia and pretty much the end of the Ashes in Australia was going to be eighteen months. It
was about eighteen months. So I decided then that play the Ashes ten tests back to back going to be hard work, that I'll sit it out. Hopefully, you know, we win the Ashes in Australia, I'll have a drink with the boys. After that eighteen months good effort. I've focused on the cricket, kept my life back on track. Cricket will follow and then I can just you know, see where I'm at. And yeah, pretty much went to England, got through that fine, came back home. Was the amazing
Ashes series that we end up winning five nil. We win the third Test and we've won the series already. Third Test Perth warning puts on a big party for us a crown, but I decided then we've still got two more to go. Dedicated this long. I'm like, on the on the cricket side of things, let's just wait till the end. Let's make this series really special. Winning Melbourne and I'm like, this is going to be amazing.
And get the Sydney we went again. So we've won five nil, one of the most amazing series that I've played in. We go to the room, celebrate with family and friends, still hadn't had a drink yet, and then I remember, yeah, I remember this vividly that Yeah, Sydney
change rooms. There's sort of like a little lower area where blokes sitting on steps, on couches, on the physio bench, all sitting in a big circle we're all drinking, And I was just about to message Anna and just say I'm gonna have a drink, have a champagne off the boys to celebrate, And as I was writing it, I just had a thought that, like, if I have one with them, I might as well have a hundred. And I don't want to have a hundred, so why I
bother having one? And I think that was the moment that I knew when and I pretty much just sit back to the phone to lead it before I even send it, put the phone back in the pocket, and yeah, and and didn't have a drink. But that was, Yeah, that's probably the point where I knew, and that one hundred percent knew inside. Up until then, I probably didn't. I probably thought I was going to drink again at some stage, but I think, yeah, once, yeah, it just hit me that, yeah, I don't want to have one
because I'll end up having heaps. So if I don't touch it, then I'll be right. And so I didn't end up, you know, staying out until seven am that morning, celebrating for the boys, carried a few of them home and proceeded to celebrate for two or three days, and all the lads and remembered all of it. The boys loved it because I could fill them in with with how the night went. And I sort of enjoy it a little bit. I instilling I love going out, and I can go out for as late as I like
and as long as I like and enjoy it. But I sort of the thing that pleases me a little bit, and even if and I don't do it because I want them to think that I'm looking out for them, but I don't, and I don't try and make it. There's no making a deal about it that I'm there. But when I go out, I just like the fact that I know that I can control them if something does come up or there's a bad situation or the while I'm there that yeah, I can just yeah, look
after someone. Because I didn't have anyone that would do that for me, and not because not because I'm angry that anyone didn't, but we're all in that state. So I just think of things that can now, that can happen, and I've thought I've had the hell of a lot of things that could have happened that yeah, that now I get a bit of enjoyment at it. You know that I can at least be eyes for any trouble that might arise.
You copped a bit when you because at the same time you became a vegetarian and then vegan afterwards, or are you vegan in that moment as well?
Uh, sort of, it was around that time. Yeah, a little bit before that. I'd probably go and vegio first. I was already vegio. Right.
So you've had a whole lifestyle change, though, and you actually copped a fair bit. And the world has changed, thankfully that it's more accepted for all of these sorts of things. But was it actually hard for you when you knew that you had a drinking problem, but you were getting essentially mocked for not having beers, not eating steak, not being the quintessential assi bloke a little bit.
I've always saw that as a challenge and as like motivation in a way, similar to when you get bad press. I always tried to use that to spur me on to you know, prove people wrong. And I think it was the same in that situation. You know, people judge me a lot about the change. It'll ruin your career. You won't be able to play, you know, you'll be done. And then as it turned out, it ends up being more than half my career playing for Australia. I've been
a non drinking vegan. When everyone goes, nah, yeah, you know you're terrible when you did it, Well, how have I played you know, six, you know, seven years like that, when it was only the first three or four that I wasn't. I think that's where people sort of judge, you know, two thirds of my career, it breaks down to be I was a non drinking vegan. So if I was no good, I would have been gone a long time ago. But I think initially it was just, yeah, just motivation to prove them wrong.
When you look at because you've just retired from international cricket, When you look back at your career, you've obviously had the you know, the big moments, the birthday hat trick, in the ashes and you know you've touched on ashes, winning teams and things like that. You've achieved a lot. What what was the most challenging part of your career though? And what are your most Yeah, what what was the hardest part?
Probably initially, probably initially that going through that, the changes, the pressure that I put on my I'm not pressure that put on myself, but the position I put on myself in with obviously cricket, Australia, Victoria personal relationships. But I think, yeah, the loss of Hughesy was probably yeah, after that, probably the hardest thing that not just me, but a lot of guys struggle with and probably still struggle a little bit with over their life.
I have this theory or concept that when you've experienced tragedy, you can talk about it without thinking about it, but the moment that you think about it, you're right back in that spot, and I feel like you're right back in that spot right now.
You look pretty Yeah, it's hard. It's just tough to think about because so the day you got hit it was actually on my birthday. So birthday is never a good time of the year for me. As much as everyone always talks about the birthday hat trick, I don't. It doesn't even really register that much with me anymore, just for this year. Fact that birthdays a bad time
of the year for me. I remember I was sitting in a movie with Anna, as I do, just follow scores on your phone, you just follow the boys and see how they're going, and I'd noticed that the game had stopped and how was playing the game. So, being one of my best mates, I ended up. I just said that I knew something was up. I knew Hughes he had been hit. I'm like, I have to go call. So I ran out called Hads and I just stayed
out there. He didn't answer, and then he called me back pretty quickly and just filled me in with, Yeah, obviously what had happened where they're at, but as we all know, there's not much. They didn't know much at that stage, so yeah, it was pretty tough. I pretty much went back in and told Anna and we just we left the movie and and just came home. And Yeah, the next couple of days were hard. I think, Yeah, we flew we've we flew up the Sydney a couple of us pretty much just to go see him in
the hospital. And that's probably one of the hardest things I've ever done, is actually going and see him laying in the bed. But as hard as it was, I'm glad I did go in because, yeah, I know that now I'd regret if I didn't walk in there and see one last time. Sorry. It's yeah, So as much as everyone always yeah talks about the highlight of the
boxing day, I mean the birthday hat trick. It's fair to say, yeah, birthdays are pretty insignificant to me these days, not because of people joke that no one can ever top it. As a present. Yeah, there's only one present I'd like, and that would be that you know that that day never happened.
How do you cope with that? I mean, I know all the boys go through it without putting myself in I was outside the hospital or you're inside the hospital, so we all lived through this bizarre, you know, outer body experience together and you guys were so close to him, and I just sat there and I watched you guys walk in and out, and you're all, you know, a lot of you and my mates, and just seeing your face now takes me back to seeing all those faces.
Then and just.
How did you get through that time? Because I will never understand how all the boys got through that.
I think we just just how much he loved cricket. I think that's what got us through, and I think how close the cricket community probably got after that, especially in Australia. Obviously, there was a lot of respect around the world for how people, you know, sent their condolences and you know, passed on their best wishes and all
that type of thing. So obviously the family and people involved in everything, but I just think how close cricket in Australia became from that moment, pretty much from like you said that that day in the hospital where there was yeah, it would have been thirty people, thirty current players, maybe you know a handful of X players as well. I think from then on in family and friends, but then on, yeah, it just became closer. It probably changed the way some people played the game a little bit,
I think how they went about it. Personally. People probably judge me a little bit. Ah, you know, you're not as aggressive as used to be and all these types of things. But even though I can be, I think it's hard to be the sort of player that I was after what happened, just because of how it happened. It's obviously hard to say as a fast bowler, but yeah, it's very rare that I'll probably get in the state of mind that I probably did before that where I
could be really aggressive. And yeah, so I think my game changed, which I probably got judged a lot for too, But I don't care. That's the way I want to play it. That's the way I've succeeded since. But it's I think from the good thing that it's helped me with is just how you said. You've said a lot of our people talk about you being happy, go lucky, and love life, and I think that's why I do.
I think that's why I'm playing cricket so freely and with so much fun and passion and enjoyment now because I don't worry about anything. I just don't worry about whether it was selection. All I worried about for whichever team I walked out that I just had fun and I just played it and enjoyed it. Because as hard as it was back then, he never got to play another crickety game, and you just never know when your last game is going to be. So I think that's
why I just love life. I love playing the game because we all know how much he loved it, how much he smiled when he played it, and I think that's what spurs me on the fact that, yeah, you can just go out there and have fun. In the bigger picture, there's a hell of a lot worse things that can happen, and that's happening around the world to worry about a little cricket game. That's probably, like we said,
about significant things that happen in life. As significant as that was and as hard a loss as that was, Yeah, it's definitely made cricket a better place in Australian cricket, I think, just with friendships and relationships and possibly the way we play the game now compared to maybe you know in the past.
I've heard about this thing recently called PTG. So there's there's post traumatic stress and then there's this thing that people talk about called post traumatic growth, which is learning from those moments and taking something out of it. And I guess that's kind of what you're talking about there, is that a lot of good came out of it, but it was such a tough thing to go through.
It was and yeah, like I say that, I can definitely say it now you see that. Yeah, there has been a lot of growth since. Yeah, the game has changed. I know there's still aggressive moments and stuff like that, but just the good things that you've seen grow from it, just the way we play the game and how we respect him, and because at the end of the day, he was a great friend. He was a great mate too many. He's a great son and brother. Yeah, and
that's sad, but that's sort of Yeah. When I go out there to play and you think about and enjoying the game, I just think about the enjoyable moments that I had with him on the field alongside him, some of the games that he made a smile, the way he played that it makes it easy to play cricket, which is what I've enjoyed my especially for someone at the back end of their career, where I can literally just yeah, go out there and enjoy the game for what it is.
Thanks for chatting with me. I've ended up in tears almost more than you have, so I'm going to stop this and give you a hug. But well done on your career as well. I know it's still going on a domestic front, but I think you've overcome a lot, You've achieved a lot, and the way that you live your life now is you live it by the way that you preach it. And you're a joy to hang out with. And you've become a really good mate and I really appreciate you.
You're dealing with you, so thank you, no ways, thank you. And HOWE becomes a cross.
Okay, where's the tissue time. If this episode has been a bit of a trigger for you, please remember that there is help out there. Beyond Blue is one place you can go, Alcoholics Anonymous another. There's plenty of help out there, you just need to reach out. Thanks for listening to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If you want to get in touch, you can get me on Twitter at narrowly underscore Meadows or follow the podcast on Instagram at ordinarily underscore Speaking.
Thanks again, show me that you are, fire
Me that you are