Ordinarily Speaking, I've played ninety six Test matches. I made my debut eighty one times Tason time.
Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates resilience in sport. My name is Narrowly Meadows, and my guest this episode is Australian Test bowler Nathan Lyon the Goat. As he's affectionately called Australia's greatest offspinner of all time. The catch cry at nice Gary has become synonymous with Ozzie cricket. That nickname Gary after Ozzie rules Great Gary Lyon.
Despite the cult figure status and the three hundred and ninety wickets in ninety six Tests, the truth is Nathan Lyon has played his career riddled with doubt. The kid from country New South Wales is now a Test veteran who has played through one of the most tumultuous periods in Ossie cricket. Nathan isn't ordinarily one to show his emotional side, but as he reflects, he says he's emerged a better player and Dad, I hope you enjoy the chat.
Again.
Oh Nat, thanks for spending some time with me.
Absolute pleasure.
You say that with two big a grin on your face. I'm not sure what that means. You made your debout way back in twenty eleven. Can you tell me how that felt? As far as a testaboot? Can you tell me how that felt at the time, because you were coming after quite an era of Australian cricket.
Yeah, obviously a pretty long time ago now, I remember it pretty clearly. Obviously, well pretty well burst on the onto the scene, throughout the through the Big Bash, playing for South Australia, then only four Shield Games to South Australia, then into an Australian Ray Tour. Then suddenly I was picked to go to to Sri Lanka on the Test Tour and heading over there with with some photos of these fellows on my wall as a kid, not the Ponting's that Clark's had and the Johnson these guys, so
didn't really know anyone but Trent Copeland. So it was pretty it's pretty nerve nerve wracking, I dare say, when you get to Colombo, open up the left and out walks Fricky Ponting, Brad Hadden and Michael Clark and you got made on your new teammate type thing. So it was pretty special. But then for myke Cussy to take under his wing on that tour was unbelievable. But going to my de bow and two days before the game Greek Chapel, Michael Clarke called me into the change room
from training. All the way into the goal change rooms, didn't really know what to expect. They both sat me down and they said that you're going to play. You're going to make your test aboo. We're on the only one spinner your it, so good luck and all that stuff.
And I was pretty taken back by that, and I just remembered get my phone back at the hotel and calling dad, and I would have been about lunchtime here in Australia and called Dad and I said Dad, I'm going to make my test aboo and Dad just goes, oh, that's good, least you'll play one game, then hung up the phone. So I've since figured out that Dad didn't really know what to say because you would get too emotional.
So yeah, they said I was a good start, and Dad was just pretty happy I was going to play one game and get a track suit. So so yeah, then the rest is history.
I guess that tells me a little bit about your family, and i've met your brother Brendan, who's been such an important part in your career. Tell me a bit about growing up and what your family was like and how they've influenced the way that you are.
Obviously, Mum and dad's still out and young in the country in your South Whiles where I grew up, so they're pretty humble country people where they won't let my feet leave the ground. Mum's always telling me to keep my head down and keep my feet on the ground, you know, one special type thing. So they're pretty humble type people. But my childhood was with my older brother,
it was soccer in the winter. Then there was just cricket throughout the summer, and Mum and Dad were very fortunate enough to have those two as my parents or our parents, to drive us all around New South Whiles playing cricket, playing sport, to go three hours one way just for a game cricket, then turn around and do that then for Mum and Dad to back up and go to work the next day. It was pretty special when you look back at it.
So you came from nowhere, as you said, you were a groundsman a I know you get sick of talking about this story. But you had an orthodox sort of upbringing into cricket, So how did that affect your self belief?
Well, I always dreamt of playing cricket for Australia, even when I was working at manic Rowl. Then when I moved down to Adelaide over when I was rolling and watching the South Australian Redbacks train, I always dreamt that I was good enough to play that cricket, or kind of hoped I was good enough to play that cricket. I didn't really get that belief that I could actually achieve it until I did a net bowling session against the Australian side and the English side in the twenty
ten Ashes. I think when I was at Adelaide on the ground stuff, my workday was actually bowling to the nets for about three and a half hours, which was unbelievable, about two hours to the Australians an hour and to the English guy. So that was pretty special. And I didn't really have that belief that maybe I could do it until bold to Ponting for about forty minutes and
to Mike cassiy on Mike Wall. These guys aren't whacked me out of the ground here the net might be able to achieve it if I put my head down and you never know what's around the corner type things. So that was probably one moment in the back of my head that stands out that that my belief was there if I could achieve it.
So when you then make it to the top level, did you feel did you fit in straight away? Or how did you He just looked at me like you're kidding me.
A yeah, I definitely didn't feel like I fitted in. When you're looking around these guys and the careers that these guys have had and what they've achieved, it's pretty remarkable then to be suddenly their teammate in the same change rooms, in the meetings trying to learn about the game. I think if you talk to good mate Mitchell Stark, he thinks I've played ninety six Test matches now and he reckons I've probably played made my debut about eighty five times. So it took it took me a long
time to feel part of the side. I guess not part of the side, but probably if I fit it in in my role within the Australian Cricket change room, So it's probably it took me a little while because coming out of the Australian cricket era before Shame Warn, then suddenly a spinner comes into the field, then you go, okay, well the whole public, why can't you do what Shame Warn has been doing for the last eight to ten years.
So it took me a little while to get out of his shaddle shadow, And to be honest, I'm probably still in his shadow. Ninety six Test matches, three hundred and ninety Test work wickets into it, Probably still in his shadow a little bit, but that's just your mind. You get in my mind and probably the part of Australian public as well, and that's probably just down to who Shame Warn is and what he achieved in the game.
So that's one of those things where I had to be confident in my own skill set at first class level to Test match level to perform, and I think Chuck Berry, Darren Berry, my first state coach, he had a lot to do with that. He was able to build that confidence in me to get my confidence in my stock break stock off break to go out there and perform under pressure. And I think he's got a
lot of credit to take for that. And I look at my career right now, I think over the last three to four years, I think my cricket's gone to a couple of new levels. And I think that's because I've got that self belief and stop trying to prove to the whole world, and I just wanted to prove to myself how good I could be. And I've still still trying to strive to get better at each and every day. I still feel like I've got a lot
of improvement. I still think there's a lot of depth that I can get to, and I still believe that I can get a lot better than what I am right now. So I think from three years ago or three to four years ago to now is totally different. Players.
What changed for you?
I think the penny dropped for me that I don't need to prove to everyone out in the world that I deserve to be be here. I wanted to prove to myself that I deserve to be here, and I wanted to play at this level and I want to be the best I can possibly be. So I think the penny really dropped within myself to be honest and understanding that my stock boy is the best in the world, and I believe it is in the best in the world and that I can get anyone out no matter what situation we're in.
So what made it drop? Was there a moment?
I think there's a few different things. I think life away from cricket improved. I think my family, my partner, m I think or they've all been absolutely incredible with the support. Because one thing I do know, when you're in a hotel room and you get dropped, when you're in India or in England, you feel like the world's closing closing down, and you wonder, well, my career has done, what can I do? How do I feel? And what's normal. It's pretty hard to sit here and say I understand
or you should feel like this, because everyone's different. I felt like my career was done as soon as I got dropped. But then I had a chat to Brad Hadden and he said, well, you need to figure out why you got dropped and asked those questions and you can then you can hold the coach. As a captain, the selector's accountable. So since then I've been up to ask the right questions to get the answers that I need to make me go out and get better each and every day. If that makes sense.
It does make sense. It's it's interesting to me because I've covered a lot of cricket and a lot of cricket of you playing it, and you spoke about Mike Hussey before. We would often chat about we couldn't understand why you because there was so much chopping and changing throughout the Test team and you were often pretty much close to the only constant in that team. So what was it in your mind that was was making you believe the doubt instead of the positives.
Well, I hate the word comfortable. I never wanted to feel like I was comfortable in the Australian Australian setup because in my eyes, as soon as you feel comfortable, the quicker will get taken away from you. Then you're back to the drawing board. So I wanted wanted it so much. I wanted to play cricket. It's my dream and it's still my goal to go out and play as many Test matches as I can for Australia and making sure that I'm playing my role to win games.
So it's one of those one of those things where I didn't want to get too far ahead of myself. I wanted to stay try and stay in the present as well, without losing myself belief and not letting my belief go too far. It's about, in my eyes, having a balance between your ego being up here and your fear of failing down here, and trying to have a steady balance there. We're not getting too far, but not being afraid to fail. I think a lot of people, a lot of professional players, may have a fear of
failing because they're not sure what the unknown is. But if you can step out of that and I can't realize you are going to fail every now and then, then but how can I learn? How can I get better from that experience? So next time when I come under pressure in that same scenario, I'll be better off for it, and hopefully I'll come out in the right end.
How did it feel in those real moments of doubt for you?
I just felt like I was questioning myself a lot. And you go back to my hotel room and I asked myself, Am I good enough? Am I good enough? And then I was actually talking to I think it was Michael or our sports psych about watching some unbelievable moments that you've been a part of, or some unbelievable balls that you bold and going Actually it sounds weird, but going back and sitting on YouTube and actually watching
yourself bold and getting that feeling back of howls. Do you watch the India Test mate in.
Adelaide Adelaide twenty fourteen.
Yeah, that one's a good one. But there's there's, there's a couple. So thanks for all the people in YouTube.
To compile them.
Yeah, they do a good job for them. But so it sounds weird to go back and watch that. But even today or if I know I've got a big day, whether that's Shield cricket, BBL or Test cricket, whatever it may be, I'll tend to find myself sitting on my bed watching some highlights to get that feeling. So I know how to replicate that feeling. So I know it drives from family nuts, and I know it drives my Emma and my two girls half of a Miller absolutely nuts.
I don't I don't want to watch you again, but we have to get get through it when I've got a game coming up. So it's a little bit weird. How often do you do this whenever required? It's a bit weird, but it works. It works. I'm not going to get away from it. I need a few more uploads.
It kills, you know, two beds with one stone. Get the uploids up and get the confidence up exactly. So when because we've spoken during Test matches before, how anxious do you get when you play a Test match?
Yeah, I'm pretty I'm sure. I think I'm getting better, but I'm pretty anxious. And that's It's not because I'm scared of failing or scared of getting hurt if I'm going out the bat. It's because I care, because I
care about my mate's doing well. And I've always said throughout my career I'd much rather see Mitchell Stark, Josh Hazelwood pack comings these guys go out and take five wickets rather than me personally go out and take five wickets, because if I can sit down and have a beer with them at the end of the day and see the joy in their face, and it means a world
to me. And knowing that I've also had a fortunate role to play, whether that's bowling partnerships or even if I'm batting with with the tail or, batting with Steve Smith to bring his one hundred up at edge Baston. But it's just because I care, So I'll get nervous and anxious because I care because I want to see my mates so well and I want to win games of cricket for Australia.
Do you have problems sleeping?
Yeah? I've had edge Baston Test match when I felt like the pressure was on me to win the game of cricket for Australia and the first Test of the Ashes and just gone and couldn't sleep. So I had to google rain on a tin roof to take me back to my country days. There's nothing better than rain on a tin roof that will put me to sleep within minutes. So I'm luck enough. I put that on for about eight hours and got a good night's sleep and went out and won the game. It was good.
Headingly, How bad was the anxiety for you in that one before the final day when everything was on the line.
It wasn't so bad during the game. There was more the aftermath. I've never been in a change room like that before, and with me missing a runout, I could have gone from villain to hero within side three point two seconds to bowl in hitting Stokes on the pad and then the whole everything. It was just everything we
burnt the review and over before we dropped catches. We just, I know, it was a weird feeling through that whole day where you're so close but you were a few of us started getting a bit anxious and a bit nervous, and because we felt like the ashes were we're in our reach, if that makes sense, We understood stood the
how big a game it was. Then down to that last couple of overs and Ben Stokes was play having one of those days where everything seemed to hit was either going for boundary six or it was leaning in the gap. Was just unbelievable, and the crowd at Heavenly was pretty pretty incredible. But then to miss a runout.
So tell me in that moment how that feels.
I was, I was guarded. I felt like I dropped the ashes. I was guarded, and then but I knew I had to pick myself up within a couple of seconds to come and bowl again, because there's still that old chance that I could take a wicket, and I had that belief that I could could take a wicket, but it was just one of those things and I look back at it now and after being up to retain the ashes, which has been one of my biggest goals,
It's it's pretty pretty special. But I look back at that and I can sit here and happily say that I've been part of the best Test match to ever be played, even though you lost out, even though I lost it. It goes back to having that fear of failing. I'm not scared. You've got to be prepared to lose a game to win it, especially at Test match cricket. I know I'm a better person and I know it'll be a better cricketer from that day. Heavenly a lot worse things in the world than happening than me just
dropping a cricket ball and missing a run out. At the end of the day, it's a game of cricket. At least I've got something to talk about the rest of my career. Everyone wants to talk with it everywhere or go, so it's pretty it's pretty amazing. Made one mistake and I think I'm going to be remembered for that one mistake.
Well, the thing for me watching it is I feel like what isn't focused on enough is that the very next ball you dismiss him. It's only because the reviews have been butchered that he's not out. That's it, because if you review it, or even if the umpire gives it at the time, he's out. So the fact that you have this little mess up and then the very next ball managed to deliver a wicket under pressure, how much did that actually? I know it must have just
been frustrating at the time because it wasn't given. But how much does that actually help you? And how proud are you of going you know that I didn't let that get to me and the next ball I delivered.
Well, yeah, I am proud have been able to step back up and in my terms, suck it up and get on with the top thing. So, as I said, I had that belief that I can get Stokes. Ut I've had many battles throughout my career with Stokes. He's an exceptional player. But I knew that if I by my best ball, I can challenge his defense and hopefully
make an error. And there was an error may but it just wasn't wasn't from me, And unfortunately that happens in cricket, and mister Wilson made the right the wrong decision. Whatever has happened happened. So it's one of those things where if you can learn from the mistakes and get better and suck it up and get on with it, then we'll be right.
Do you chat to the umpire after something like that after the match is done and dusted.
I haven't seen mister Wilson for a while.
Now, would you say something?
Yeah, I'll have it. I always talked through to the umpires throughout my whole career and the drs. And isn't there for umpires decision. It's there for absolute hours of decisions and unfortunately we burn it so it's really down to Paine.
Anything to paint.
He nah, it's one of those things. We're trying to get better with the reviews as well. But we went on to retain the ashes and that's always been one of my goals to stand up at the oval and lift up the earn in front of the English crowd.
What's been the hardest thing for you across your career do you think?
I think probably one of the hardest. The hardest thing was throughout my whole career, especially early on, it felt like everyone was looking for a new spinner, felt like I never really had had the support of some people who made it. I think felt like the selectors were always looking for Australian League spinner or a spinner to come in. But probably the biggest thing and probably the hardest thing in my career is actually the media having an impact on my parents, because I had many a
phone calls for mum and mum and dad. And I think it probably affects my mum more than more than anything because she reads it, then she doesn't want to believe it. Then she starts singing about it. Then rather than picking the phone phone up and asking me what's happened, then she thinks whatever I do, the everyone's opinion of my mum more change as well. So I think the media has probably been the hardest thing.
How deeply does it affect her?
Oh yeah, she's copped it a fair bit. So she's pretty hard on herself for a thing. A few things I don't I don't really know why. I guess she takes it to heart everything that Brendan and I do, and she's so proud of it, and she just wants us, wants us to see us do well, and when when things don't go our way, she takes it to heart and when it's displayed out in the media, I think she doesn't like getting the papers delive it home.
What's been the worst one for her.
Obviously the off field incident with me, but there's been a couple of on the field incidents, even the ball tampering saga. I think they stop getting the papers when all that stuff happens, just so they didn't have to read it and they could talk to me and find out what was going on. But saying that they've been our biggest they've been my biggest supporters and it wouldn't be where I am now if they weren't here.
How do something like the ball tampering thing impact a person massively?
I think it gets everyone on different levels throughout, whether you're directly involved, whether you weren't involved. I've had many conversations with a lot of people outside Cricket Australia and then talking to me how much they were hurt through the actions of the Australian cricket team, but then having the same conversations with the same people and saying how proud they are off the back of the last two years.
I think I think the Australian cricket team now is in such a better place and what we were in I think we got stuck in living in a bubble. Where we are now. Hats off to Tim Payne especially, I think he's been absolutely exceptional. And then you throw justin Justin Langer's influence and then also the senior players as well. I think I think where we are now is where the Australian cricket team or the public love to see the Australian cricket team. How did it impact you,
Oh yeah, it's like everyone else. I guess it was pretty hard. That period was very hard, but then the next twelve months without Steve David and bangers and having that cloud over it, so I guess it was pretty hard, but it was pretty powerful to be in that Australian change room knowing that we're going to make a difference and having that belief that we're going to become better people and become better creats as well. So it's all
had our effects. But I think talking on behalf of the Australian cricket team, I think we're in such a better place now and I think we're all better people for it.
As well, you are a quintessentially country bloke like you don't like showing your emotions. You know, you are all about community. You try and give back. I know you try and give back to a lot of people. Do you ever find yourself getting emotional?
Yeah, all the time, all the time, but it's only behind closed doors and stuff.
I know.
I think I'm born in the wrong generation. I think I'm a little bit old school. It's for me, it's more making more about me making sure my mates are right than rather than I'm okay, Because if I know my mates are okay, they'll they'll drag me along as well if I get down. So I've been very fortunate enough to be part of probably the best baling attack I've ever been a part of it, which is currently now with Pat, Josh and Starky. That those especially those three,
that they're probably my three best mates. But then you throw the locks of Sids and Pardo and Nest and Birdy these guys in there as well. So I've got an unbelievable group around me right now. So if I'm struggling mentally or whatnot, I'm more than comfortable and picking up the phone to any of those guys and having a really good chat. So and I think that only helps your friendship and makes that blossom even more.
Have you gotten better at that over the years, asking for help when you need it?
Yeah? Yeah, I think so You've got to find people that you're comfortable to talk to. And I know within man, that's it's not that easier to come out and talk about your feelings or if you're struggling in certain things. But the people we got around the Autralian cricket team. But then you look internally the people you got around around yourself. It's pretty important to who you've got around you and who you believe in and who you trust
as well. I think trust is a massive thing. But I don't think the word care is thrown around enough throughout the Australian cricket team. I think I think we can get better. I think we can get better at caring about each other and making sure that we're heading in the right direction.
When was the last time you cried the girls?
When I've got the girls, are usually shed a tear.
Your daughters, Yeah, just just because they're happy, or.
Oh yeah, just because I know I can see me and them. I guess so it's pretty pretty cool, and that they're at an age now that I'm able to have a really good conversation with and have fun with. So it's quite quite special having them come up from Canberra where they live down there. Every chance I'll get to see them. It's it's pretty special.
Your whole face changes when you talk about your girls. It just completely softens.
It's tough. Yeah, I know. I obviously love them with all my heart and I'll do whatever I have to do to support and care for those girls. You're right, got me, got me? I didn't expect this.
What gets your emotional right now?
Is it?
I mean, you've obviously been through a bit on the personal front, and we don't need to go into that, but through the separation everything is that what's getting you emotional now?
Is yeah? I think so. I think I know what I've been through, And when I talk about halperm Millot, it doesn't matter who I'm talking to about it. In media, I seem to shut it off quite quickly, so I don't get in situations like this. But with Harpram Miller, obviously, they're they're my world, and they're they're my they're my life, and what I what I'm doing now is to set them up in the future. So that's one of those things.
I guess, what kind of dad are you.
Meaning? If no, I try and be a decent role model to them, and they're going through an interesting stage to ask all their friends are asking if their dad's famous and all this stuff. So I'm just telling them that that's just someone who plays cricket for work and who's just trying to put food on the table for them like every other parents, and that we have we have fun when when they're around. But yeah, no, they're good, and I'm not really sure what top of dad I am.
I'm just making sure that they're they're having fun and they're safe and they're healthy.
Do they ever drop nass garys all the time?
All the time? I took them to cricket on the sug which was actually special moment. No one else at the s C Journals, just me and half and Miller out in the middle of the ground and Halper is not really in the cricket Miller Miller starting to get into cricket and I'm just wanting to play and wanting to learn how to bowl and do all that stuff. And I think Miller was the one that ran around and says, god, dad, this is where everyone was out, nice Gary. And so they're well aware of what I do.
And does it make you embarrassed or do you love it? Do you secretly love it?
No, I'm not sure if I secretly love It's it's a little bit different when your daughters start calling you from dad to one minute, and then when they want something they call you Gary or so it's a little bit different to the normal parent. I guess.
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Nathan lyon how hard is it when because you're away from them so much when you're playing cricket? How hard is that? And do we do the public ask people that don't understand, do we appreciate enough how hard that is?
I don't. I don't think the public do and don't. I don't think the public probably understand the depth of it as well. And I know my situate personal situation is different. So I didn't see Harper Miller for six months. That's a bloody long time. The amount of time we're away from our families, whether that's your partner, girlfriend's wife, kids, mum and dad, whatever it may be, we're away that much.
And you look at Mitch Dark and Alyssa heally like they're married, But I think I spend more time with Mitch than what you can. Definitely do it what Alyssa does.
So it's very it's difficult. But then then on one hand, where we understand our careers only lasts a short period of time in our life, and I know that throughout my career, the sacrifice is that that Emma's doing for me, for Mum and Dad, for Brendan, for Harper Miller and and everyone else throughout my family and my close friends, all their sacrifices, I know that I'll repay them as soon as my career is done. They will get tenfold back.
Is that also part of what comes into your mind when you're anxious during a game or sitting in the hotel room before a game or after a game of you know how much you've given up in order to just be there and to get to that point in how much those people have given up.
Yeah, it does pop in your head. It probably pops in your head more when you get dropped. You kind of feel like you've let down your coaches that you had back home, whether Brandon it's been more documented. He's been a big coach in my life. Then you look at Dad, he's a big coach and as soon as you get dropped, you feel like you're probably letting them down.
That's a lot to feel like your own professional life is letting other people that you care about down.
That's me though, My biggest fear is letting people down. When you look at that Heavenly game when I dropped that ball, that's the first thing when I got back in that change rooms, probably the first feeling that I had is that I'll let everyone else in this room down. But I let the whole Australia down as well, So it felt like a lot of weight and I was pretty gutted after that game, I know. I went into a room and had a towel over my head for
about half an hour. Then we had a chat, Then I had a beer in the Chaine room, and we got back to my hotel room and just sat in the shower for about half an hour. And then it wasn't until Emma come and dragged me out of the shower and said, put some clothes on, just go down and have a beer with the boys downstairs. It's and she was brilliant. She says, it's just a game. It's just a game. Don't don't put yourself down and don't make yourself think that you let down a whole Australia.
So it's one of those things where I probably care about the game too much, but I feel like that's one of my strengths.
Did you cry in the shower afterwards? No?
I wasn't sure if I if I was, if I have tears or what, But I just didn't. I felt numb, It felt like, didn't feel like Yeah, I didn't feel not like myself. I just felt no. One didn't know what to feel like.
Is that the worst you felt playing cricket? Now, what's the worst you felt?
Phil hears When Phil here has got hit, you soon realize that, as I said, we're just playing a game. We're very lucky just to play a game. It's just a game, cricket. There's so many people in that would love to give love to be in our shoes and any day of the week. But the worst made in the cricket field is when Phil got hit by a long way Yeah.
Do you ever think about that day?
Yeah? Yeah. You often often come out when you walk out onto the SCG or there's certain triggers that that will for me personally, that will be set off. And I was about ten meters away from Phil when he got hit that day, so the memories are obviously pretty fresh. And obviously it was a pretty good made of mine, an unbelievable teammate as well. So it's one of those things where you're not going to let go of that.
How did you cope with it?
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It was just, uh, it was I'm not sure. It was a weird part of my life. Miller was born about three weeks before, so I had the joy of that of Miller being born, but then losing your best mates I was. It was pretty It was a pretty hard, hard meal period of my life, to be honest. Do you miss him, Yeah, of course you do. You miss you miss it, You miss certain parts, you miss every part, to be honest.
But there's been a couple of things that I know We've sat around the Australian Cricket Cricket Room change room while we're in England, and we I think it was about eight of us went around and said something about Phil or the last memory about Phil. So it's it's pretty moving.
What's do you want to share your memory of Husey?
I was just in I was just in the in Brad Hadden's room in Dubai and I actually don't know if I can say it, but he's coming and he's did did I won't say it, but he did did a movement in the in the room it had had an iron stitches on the bed. Then he just comes into his lays on the bed and just watches the movie and just carries on like nothing's happened. So it's free. Yeah, it's pretty.
Cool, that hole and it comes up a lot in these sorts of conversations because it's easily the most impactful thing that's happened to this generation of cricketers. Do you think we truly appreciate how much of an impact it's had on this group of men.
That's a hard one to answer because everyone's different and everything. It impacts everyone totally different from even the people who weren't there or weren't involved. It's impacted the whole cricket world. So it was pretty special and it just shows how special he hughs he was by the just a pure impact around the world to have obviously he was always going to have Australian team at his funeral, but to have the superstarsout Colie and these guys come out for
his funeral as well, it's pretty pretty amazing. So it just shows the quality of person feel was I guess.
So you mentioned that the highlights that you loved to watch was the Adelaide Test, the best Test I've ever been at because it was the first one afterwards and the emotion that went into it, and then it comes down to the final day, eight wickets are required and you come in and start making it happen at four oh eight pm in Adelaide. What do you remember from from that day?
Yeah, obviously it was pretty emotional week and even Boff said he wasn't sure if we're all going to be able to get up for it, and he was more than comfortable with that. And as soon as you went out there and you knew that we're going to be okay, it felt. It was one of those weird ones where walking out that last day, Shane Watson and Brad HadAM and were going, don't worry something, We'll give him this game, and it was just it was quite amazing when you
look at it. When I get the breakthrough at four o eight, it's just weird obviously on his test number. Then do you have the result the way we did it. Then there's a pretty amazing photo at the end of the game when we're out singing the song and we're around the painted numbers on the ground. It's probably one of my favorite photos.
You lead the song as well. Was that one of the more special moments for you?
Yeah? Yeah, looking back, I think that is probably up there number one. The way the game panned out, and obviously the events beforehand, and just the way that was probably the best way that I felt that I could pay my respects to Phil. And normally I'm in the middle of the song, but I actually got out in the circle with all the boys, and so it felt like Hughes was leading it, so it's a little bit different. So yeah, it was pretty amazing.
Did you know it was for eight PM? Because a lot of us only realized afterwards that.
No, I had no idea. It's just I've watched that thing about one hundred times.
What did you think when you realized it happened at that moment?
It was pretty strange. Pretty weird. All the New South Wales guys achieved something in that game, which was I know, a bit strange, but I've just been part of that Australian group that week was incredible.
For a country boylight you who doesn't believe in a lot of stuff like that. Did that make you think, hang on, something else is happening here? Ah?
I don't know. No luck, a bit of luck something something happened though, but I'm not sure what happened.
The song has been really important for you. You got that off, Hussy, Mike, Hussy, Why is it so important to you?
It's probably more important than the captain, to be honest with you. When Mike Canada, he said that in his eyes, I play the game in the right way and he wanted to hand the song to me for that reason. So I took a lot out of that and getting handed that song and having that honor to be able to lead the song, it's one. It's a pretty nerve wracking thing. But to be able to go out and have that proud moment in your career, when you're able to lead a team song, it's it's pretty special.
So why is it so nerve racking? Because you play in front of one hundred thousand people at the MCG. Yeah, you're in front of you know what is it? The support staff and the eleven plus you know whoever else is there from the squad? Why and they're all your mates? Why is it so nerve racking? Why?
Because it might be your first and your last and you want to make sure that it's bloody fun, it's memorable, and it's passionate as well. So that's why I look at I want to make sure that yes, there's eleven guys who go out there and perform and play, and people see that on TV. But people don't see the work of the batting coach, the bowling coach, the physios, especially the physios, the head coach, whoever it may be. That people don't see the work that these guys put in.
So it also as it allows us as a playing group to also recognize that and whether you take the pisce or whether you have a bit of fun or say some heartfelt memories or mentions or whatnot to certain players, that you really have that power to make something incredibly special. So it's pretty it's pretty amazing to be a part of.
You take a lot of this on board because you also work with with a lot of disabled people around Australia. Why is that so important to you.
I've always said I wanted to give back to cricket, especially for the game that's given me so much, and I do believe cricket is a sport for all and there's no reason if you do have intellectual disability or physical disability, there's no reason why you can't come out and play a game. And the National Inclusion Championships Down and Geelong are absolutely incredible to be a part of.
It's unbelievable to see that the passion these guys have for the game of cricket, and to make friendships with these guys, it's pretty special, to be honest with you, and I love being a role model for these guys and girls to go out and chase their dreams because my story is different. It's not coming through the cricket things and not going straight from school into cricket, not
working a day in your life. I know what it's like to go out and work in the workforce, and I know that my dream didn't come until a tad later, and it looked like it probably looked like my dream would never come as well. I want to be able to go out there and inspire these young kids to
chase their dream. And we're very lucky now that Krick Australia has got this chance for these guys and girls to actually represent their country, represent their state in whatever category, whether it's blind, B one, B two or B three or intellectual or whatever it may be. They've got the opportunity to go out and live their dream. And I think that's body and special.
You give that your personal number to a lot of these guys. What sort of messages do you get?
A lot, a lot, a lot of messages. It comes from an amazing, amazing place in their heart and they're truly thrilled about it when you send them a message, when you see them doing well or just touching bas it's pretty it's pretty special to see the replies that you get. But when you go down there, they feel like they're
a bit of a rock star as well. It's pretty it's pretty cool that you see their their face, especially when you remember the name and gout and say good a Michael, if that's that, or whoever it may be. It's pretty remarkable just to see the joy in their face when when you go there, and to be honest
with you. And nextually I want to take starkey partner these guys if they're willing enough to come down and be around these guys, and get these guys into in around the Australian Cricket room, because if they're representing Australia, they're no different to us, so they should be allowed to if they want to come and meet their idols and let's do it.
How do you think you've changed over the years.
Getting old, losing hair. No, I think I'm more mature and understanding the depth of where my game is at and how lucky I am to be able to have an impact on other people's lives, I guess, and that's purely just throughout and throughout cricket. So I'm very grateful for what the game's given me.
You've stopped drinking recently, haven't you.
Yes, I've done twenty two weeks. It's just why I've got my personal stuff sorted and I'm in enjoyed that I've been up to be a better person and probably a better dat as well. After a test match, I'm actually able to get in the car and drive down the camera or go get the girls and go and do some fun stuff. And so I've enjoyed not going out and riding myself off like I probably did for probably ninety six test matches. So I've probably eighty nine
test matches. I've probably probably done that, if I'm being honest, And that's from celebrating wins and losses or whatever it may be. We're just trying to you sit down and have a few beers. And I think a few beers probably led to too many beers at some stages. So I feel better now. I know I'm in a better place, and I enjoy not drinking, not saying I'm more than happy to go home now and have a beer with or whether I'm celebrating the mate's birthday whatnot. But I mean, no need to go out.
Why did you write yourself off in your words?
I think I just got carried away the excitement, I guess. So winning a Test match probably you feel like you conquer a lot.
Was there also a pressure release as well? Though? Ah?
Yeah, probably when you look at it, it probably is. It gives you a chance to rewind. And cricket is unique and it does go over five days and the ups and ups and downs and the flows of the cricket. You never know where you're standing. You could be in an unbelievable position, then turn around lose it, or go from a losing position to win it. So I think it's just it is a pressure release from many thoughts. But yeah, I feel like I'm in a better position now.
I've got two more questions for you. It's an obvious one, but what does the baggy green represent to you personally? With everything that you've just spoken about.
I think it's everything. I think it's something that I've personally strived for. But it's not just me personally. I think my brother is also strived for it and he will never get one. But I remember sending him a message when I got presented my first baggy green. When I got my phone back, I said, we did it. We finally got our bagg of green. So it's moments like that that stands out for me. You look at the bagg of green, what it means is it's a lot of pride. There's a lot of hard work that
goes into it. There's a lot of enjoyment and the rollercoaster ride that you've been on throughout the whole time, so honestly means a world to me. It's something that I hold him very close to my heart. I know exactly where it is at all times, so that's pretty special.
And finally, do you feel like you've emerged from Shane WARN's shadow.
I think I'm forming my own cloud, if that makes sense. Shame Warn is always going to be there in my eyes. He is the goat. He will always be the greatest ever spinner to represent Australia. But I think I'm making my own footprints. I'm leaving writing my own story. I don't want to. I didn't want to have the same story as Shane Warn. I want to have my own own career. I ownroaded to ride along. So it's been one hell of a ride, but it's not done yet.
Though I've loved getting to know you over the years, I really appreciate you spending some time with us today and I can absolutely vouch for the fact that you do give as much as back to the community and to cricket as what we've spoken about. So thank you for having a chat some time. I hope you enjoyed this episode of ordinarily speaking. If you like the podcast, make sure you follow on Instagram at ordinarily Underscore Speaking
and hit subscribe and tell your mates. And if you like the track on this podcast, it's Woody Pitney's love Me like you want to be loved. Check him out. Jesus, I can use a liga from you, Vina Bada, Tell me that you want to Vega.
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