Majak Daw - Ordineroli Speaking

Orderary speaking, I'm known as the first Sudanese footballer, but ultimately I'm a family man.

Fathering a son.

Takes time. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Ordinarily Speaking. I'm narrowly Meadows. Majack daw has got a second chance at life, and he's using it to try and help others. The AFL player wants his little boy, Hendrix, to grow up in a world open to conversations around mental health. Born in Sedan, Madjack spent three years as a refugee in Egypt before relocating to Australia, where he

I mean, I just I don't know, like coming from you know, one of nine kids, always always grown up with having little little children in my family, and then you know, when Hendrix came along, there was all these sorts of I guess, uh fears, probably.

That's the right word.

But as he's grown up, I've just I don't think i've I've ever loved anyone as much as as I love him. And yeah, he's just growing and just being able to teach him things as he gets older. Every time I see him, he runs over, it gives me a cuddle and you know, kiss his dad and like that's I never I never gave my dad a hug when I was growing up. So yeah, he means it well to me. Hendrix and.

Why did you never hug your daughter? Just wasn't the way he did things.

Or it's really not in the in my culture to show it, to show affection or anything like that. Even growing up, I just just never saw examples of it. But I mean, now I'll give my dad a hug and you know, he might feel it a bit awkward, but but yeah, just he's just so affectionate Hendrix, and he reminds he reminds me of myself a lot, and he's got so much love.

And yeah, is the best thing about being dad the fact that you get to now make your dad jokes without.

Yeah, I think it's I can probably get away with it now, and yeah, even though they're bad, but he's not, he's not ready.

To hear them.

Once you go to a dad joke around the footy club, I don't.

Know put me on the spot there, but I think since since coming to Melbourne, a bit a bit of Alarican when I was at North and you enjoy going into the club and making the boys laugh. But as I've got one of the older boys at Melbourne, I've got an axles.

Got to be granddad instead of dad jokes. You sort of mentioned it a little bit off the top. But when you look at Hendrix and you reflect on when you were a little boy and the relationship that you had with your parents, how do you feel about yourself looking back at that little boy.

You know, I was pretty lucky in terms of, you know, what mom and dad were able to do for me and my siblings. And you know, looking back, I remember you'd go out and have days out. Dad would take me to a museum or you know, go to work with him on school holidays. So I did spend a lot of time with my dad. But now when I've got Hendrix, you know, it's sort of similar kind of thing. He just wants to do things. He wants to go out once, go footy, loves basketball. You know, I would

So what kind of advice would your parents give you when you're a kid.

I was pretty naughty, so.

I didn't quite you know.

I hurt myself a lot when I was younger, so my poor mum, she was in tears a lot, and I just just had so much energy. So I kind of a little bit like Hendrix now. And yeah, yeah, but I guess it's probably taught me to just have a go at things within reason, no fear, and barely not back down. It's probably not the right word, but yeah, I love it. And people doubt me and then I prove them wrong. So that's what's kind of taught me a little bit.

You've done that a few times. When you close your eyes and you think back to sit, doan what springs to mind for you? What sort of smells and senses and memories.

I guess in the summer, it's really dry, very hot. You know where we lived, just outskirts of the city. You know that it would be so dry that the ground will crack. You know, those sorts of things you see in the at back and country. Victoria just very dry and the wet season it rained heavily to the point where there was an area in front of the house and turned it almost it would turn into a pond and it'd get all these birds and all these vegetation.

So I love when you talk about it, you sort of look ahead of you as though you can imagine that the pond of water in front, like you're back there when you're looking back. How unsafe was it for your family in Sadan growing up?

I was, I was relatively safe, but I think as I got older started understanding, I guess the world around me, and I was unfolding at the time, the Civil war in Sedan between North and South, and you know, my dad was heavily in the church. You know, he was helping rescuing some of the kids who were becoming child soldiers, and I saw a bit of that, and I think in the book I do mention when he was arrested by the government in the middle of the night, and

How unsafe it was.

But we were really lucky to be able to escape down at that time, because as soon as we left, it just the country wasn't safe and a lot of people lost their lives and detained a lot of people put in prison for very very minor reasons.

So what do you remember from that that night that your like, when did you realize that your dad had been taken?

Yeah, I was.

I was really close. I mean I was obsessed with my dad, and I was when I was young, and you know, I was comeld. I was maybe seven or so, and if I couldn't sleep some nights, i'd go and sleep with my dad, and you know, it just happened to me that night, and you know, there was a big knock on the door and they came barging in and soldiers with guns and took him in the back of the back of the car and just remember running

So so you were literally laying next to him and they essentially ripped him from your arms. Is that.

Yeah.

Yeah, God, that's terrifying.

Yeah, I mean, it's a it's one of those things, and I mean, growing up over the years, I found it hard to believe. But also it's also one of those parts of my life that have I found really hard to share with other people because of how really how real it is. You know, people would think it's

I haven't going forward, so.

That, Yeah, how did how did it feel when you when you finally spoke to your dad about that? Because I imagine you're you carry something like that internally, you never talk about it and so it just sits there for years. How did it feel to have that conversation with him?

It was a bit of a relief, just just to finally hear him speak about it. He was an uncomfortable or anything, And I guess, you know, that's why I look up to my parents. You know, he's throughout throughout all my life, you know, everything that they've done for us, and and to think, you know, there's some of the challenges he's been through and to do with the brave face raise nine kids travel across the world. Yeah, that's again I gain a lot of my strength.

From that.

Did you hug after that conversation?

We shook hands?

Oh goodness, that's quite funny. Actually you end up in Egypt. How many years were in Egypt?

For three years?

Three years? And so you were still a little tacker then around nine years of age, right, Yeah, How tough was that? You write? You write in the book, which the book is amazing by the way your voice really comes through in it, which I think is the most beautiful thing about it. Is it really you are telling your story and it's such a strong voice. The time

Yeah, Like, it was really tough because I mean those I think it was a period of six months where it was just my mom and now and my siblings, and I think just the living conditions, sharing sharing a house with three other families, just never felt comfortable at all, not at home, not in the street. The racism that

So it's quite humbling.

So you use the word hate before that it's such a strong word and to feel like there was hatred coming towards you when you're just nine years of age. God, how tough was that?

Yeah, it was just it was just so hard to believe. I mean, and in this and nine year old, I'm not a threat to anyone. Yeah, like just you know, maybe my skin color or the way I look, I don't know, because I spoke Arabic. I mean I could do everything and anything that any nine year old could do an Egyptian kid, and.

Just that hate.

I mean, it's really tough. It's really hard to explain because it's almost to the point where they don't want you to exist. So but we had some fun in Egypt as well. I mean used to play soccer in the street and when Ramadan come around, you see the goodness and some people's heart.

It was predominantly Muslim country.

But yeah, so you get to Australia and unfortunately here there were still situations where we you copped that crap. For anyone who is listening who just doesn't get it, can you put into words how you feel or when when somebody says stuff or does stuff that makes you feel othered.

Yeah, Like, I mean there are examples, I mean from school, even playing footy. It just sort of for some reason, I mean like now I'm older, I mean I can deal with it a bit better. You just you just

What's really stuck out to me when I was reading your book was whether it was you know, in wart On, Sudan or Egypt or Australia, or you know, first at school or playing footy for the first time, all anyone really wants in life is to feel accepted, to feel safe, and to belong and that's anyone. Yeah, and all these times it was like you were getting the complete opposite of that. Does it take a toll on someone to keep on copying that?

Yeah? It does.

I mean it constantly have to remind yourself to be grateful for things, for me. I mean the things I've been able to do and achieve in life, and you know, I'm proud of some of them. I'm proud of I'm proud of them.

But now.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Hendrix growing up and you know, just and less opportunities and go to school uninterrupted. I want to play footy, go to UNI, do all these do all these things that I am that I missed out on.

And I think, you know, coming.

Back to your point where when there's when there's constant hardship, all these setbacks, the reality is, I mean it's for me deep down now, I know if I give up, then I miss out on all those opportunities to be able to try and achieve those things. You know, I might not get there, but you know, at least I I'll get closer.

Yeah, at least you gave it a crack. What were your favorite things about coming here for the first time in Australia. What were the things that you talk about. You know that there's positives in amongst the hardships, you smile on your face. What were some of the things that you know, whether it's little little things as it, you know, youngster, that you weren't. That's awesome.

I think it's just the freedom really put aside all the hardships that.

We've been through.

But I think living in the Egypt, it was just it was just apartment There was never spaces, having a big backyard, eating healthy food, things like that, and I don't know, even you know, Mum and Dad driving us around in the car. There was just there's just so many things. Good healthcare, you know, even the ability to be able to help out other family members who are back in Sadan financially and you know, helping other families come to Australia or organize their visas.

My dad did that a lot.

So just being able to help other people because you know, someone else gave us the chance, and I think it's one of those great things that we've been.

Able to do.

So I also think that one of the amazing things out of everything that you've said is you speak three languages. That's impressive. And they're not just like, oh, you know, French and Italian all those sort of things, Arabic, DNA and English all completely.

Fluently, all completely affluently.

Like that alone is I mean.

English was pretty to learn.

Like the writing aspect of English, because there's just so many ways to describe describe things.

We're in Arabic and Dinker.

They're complex in terms of the writing and stuff, but it's not you know, it's very direct. So yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah. What do you speak with your family Dinker?

Yeah?

Yeah, some of my some of my siblings who who were born in Egypt or when too young, they speak a little bit of Dinker and English.

And your littlest brother, yeah, he.

Was born here.

He is half and halfs There's some things you can say in Dinker and there'll beig conversations. Where's half Dinker half English? You particularly in these cops in the household. Yeah, it's just one of those things. I mean, it's that's that's how he's grown up here.

So would you want Hendrix to know how to speak Dinker?

Yeah?

Yeah, I would take him, take him to my mum and dads when I when I get the chance. But Hendrix is so auzzy, I mean, he's just he has vegemindin vegemardin toast and wheat bogs for breakfast.

He's I love the way you say he's so busy, like I'm so disappointed.

He's just I mean it's, you know, try our best.

But I think I've got I've got I've got I've got little nieces and nephews. He's got so much family that he can grow up with, and I'm sure he'll be able to pick up some words along the way.

Yeah, I love it. Reflecting back now, when do you think your mental health took a turn?

I think it was after the court case twenty fourteen or something like that. Back then, in hindsight, I should have taken, you know, a bit of time away from footy and go look after myself. It was just it was just mentally and physically exhausting. An at the time, all my teammates everyone were in Utah doing the preseason camp while I was still back here. One of my I was living with one of my teammates at the time.

Yeah, it was probably too much.

So what do you think about the court case that took its toll was because there's so many aspects of that.

I think.

The biggest thing is, you know, being accused of something like that and not being given the chance to to go through it properly. You know, the media were quite we're quite nasty. I mean, I didn't mind it. It's not that I didn't mind, but they can come after me and stuff and stuff like that. But I think, you know, there were there were mum and mum and Dad's house, these cameras there trying to get a word out of my siblings, and I really struggle with that aspect.

Yeah, and then it just goes on your shoulders.

Then I feel like it's my responsibility, you know. I guess if I didn't have the profile, I didn't play footy, then they wouldn't put them in that position.

But although although.

You know, I was innocent and found not guilty of any of the charges, just the damage it's done to my image. And I think that's one of those things. I mean speaking to friends and family and then I'll bring it up with them and they say, look, you know, there's nothing, you don't need to worry about anything. But I think people can be nasty, and you know, walking down the streets or if I'm out somewhere, someone might say a comment and do.

You still get that dude here and there?

Yeah, here and there.

But I think even they will forever be on the internet. There's just some things that can't turn.

Back, can't be un said.

Yeah, So, and I.

Think just the ability for people to write things about you and there's no responsibility on their behalf.

So yeah, from a mental health perspective, what were some of the signs that you were seeing about yourself.

I just stopped going home, seeking my family, withdrawing from friends, and heavily drinking. This is later on twenty eighteen, and I was just stop doing things that I really enjoyed.

You know.

I used to go fishing a lot, Yeah, like as make up excuses not to go see people. And I was just spending a lot of time by myself. So there were some of the signs.

And yeah, when you say you're drinking too much? How much? How often?

You know, even like twenty eighteen, that off season, I was probably drinking a fair bit during the week. You know, I knew well I shouldn't be, but you know, Emily pulled me up a fair bit, and you know, would have a friend's engagement or someone's birthday and I just do it without even noticing, And it wasn't for enjoyment or anything like that. So because you when someone tells you something that's true and you know you deny it and you know they're right. But yeah, so I felt

I wasn't.

I wasn't being truthful and as honest as as I as I could have been.

Why not, do you think?

Ah, For some reason, I just thought, you know, I'd just get through it in a couple of months and I should be fine. I learned a lot working with them. But then, you know, until until things got really serious. Then I realized, well, I have to do this properly. There's there's there's no other way around it but to just be honest and truthful.

So, yeah, how destructive with your behavior do you think at the time, both to yourself and your relationships and the people around you.

I was, Yeah, I was. I was.

I was a bit reckless, you know, because I wasn't spending a lot of time with my family, and you know, I was going out a lot with.

Some of the boys, and.

I guess every opportunity where I could, I was going to a lot of events, and not that I needed to you, but I guess it was just an excuse to go and have a drink with.

Yeah, it was. It was reckless.

Why do you think you avoided your family and shut yourself away from them when you reflect back at it now, what? Yeah, what do you think it was?

They know me pretty well, you know, like I mean, I'm not I'm not a vocal person in social settings. I'm usually pretty quiet, even if it's coming back this pre season and seeing my family over the last a little bit when we had off and mom and dad are like, oh, you lost weight, I'm like, yeah, I've been.

I've been training.

And even my sister the other day when I went home and she's likes everything all right, I'm like, yeah, I just just the whole COVID stuff, you know, isolating for so long and so my family know when things aren't going well, and that's why I avoided. I avoided going home because I just didn't want to answer the questions because eventually I'd have to tell them the truth.

So do you wish it did now?

Yeah? Definitely wish because I could have you know, I could not have been around. And that's one of those things I'm grateful for. I'm grateful for my life, but also at the same time knowing if I asked my family and my friends for help before things got really bad, I knew they would to help me. And like I like, I saw countless examples they really did pick me up, and you know, they got me through some of the worst times in my life.

You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Madjack daw when you were isolating yourself, what were some of the conversations you were having with yourself in your own mind? What were you telling yourself?

Look, I mean it was just it was just creeping up. I mean in terms of just I didn't want to accept that, you know, until I had the conversation with the club doctor. You know, just being able to utter those words that you know, I think I've got the depression or I think I've got poor mental health. It's really hard to accept that's where you are in your life because like the stigma around it, which is why

Yeah, tell me about the first night that you tried to take your own life of whatever you're comfortable sharing.

Look, that night was we just had a we just had a friend's thirty, if you know, Like someone said a comment about Emily and I said it directly to me, and I just took that to I just took that too literally, like took.

It to heart.

And when I look back, you know, like I barely know this guy, So I could have just brushed it off and not waded in too much into it. But then around that time, that's when I was heavily drinking, So I just continued drinking more and I told Emily that I was going home.

I left.

I went home, and I started drinking more and my thoughts got the better of me, and I took some sleeping tablets and then finally realizing, look, I need I need to tell someone what's going on. So I rang Joey, I rang Pete, and then I rang another friend, Rory, and they came around early that morning, and you know, I just basically told them everything and they were very understanding.

But yeah, I was just just at my lowest. Really.

I didn't go to training that day. I didn't go to training the following day. I stayed home for a couple of days, and Pete told the club that, you know, I seek and stuff. So the next month was really tough. I was in rehab, just had surgery on my foot. I really struggled to the people in the eye at the time because just just in case they might ask us everything all right, and and then you know, either

So what were you mostly scared of?

Ah, just the questions? What am I struggling with? I guess I was probably in my own mind really, because you know, hindsight's a great thing because they whatever I was scared of, it would have been there to help me straight away.

So what happens from there?

You know, the drinking got worse. Like I was saying earlier, I was catching up with the psych and just wasn't being truthful and honest with them. And I remember Emily and I we had a pretty argument.

We came back from Balley.

We had the miscarriage, and I was pretty tough just just seeing her in that state where you know, we're in a foreign country. Yeah, it was just just it was supposed to be a celebration her mom sixtieth and tend o to be this massive disaster, and we were really vulnerable, both of us, and we're looking after each other. And then we came back and I was still going through my struggles and.

We had an argument one night.

She left and I continued drinking, and my thoughts got the better of me, and yeah, that's when I decided to jump in the car and I headed to the balted bridge. So look, that person is me back then. You know, it's pretty scary. I was what I tried to do to myself. And I'm not that person anymore. You know, it's I am, I'm thriving, I'm enjoying life.

Just had to deal with it.

And yeah, I celebrated the milestones, walking, running and all this stuff. So, but you know, not everyone's as lucky as I am in that sense. And you know, despite being in the hospital for so long, and yeah, I mean I know a lot of families family members through mental health and stuff and those kind of things. You know that they take my position and have their have their family members here.

So do you remember that night or is it a blur? Like do you remember the moment?

I remember clearly. I think just the impact of the water and I think because yeah, I think I blacked out and then.

I just.

I just remember wanting to wanting to live, and just to regret immediately after jumping. And but yeah, I think it's it's just one of those things, you know, just so lucky. I missed a pylon under the bridge by a couple of meters.

And.

You know, in a in a in a tragic time of my life, a lot of things went right.

So you did you literally have a moment like when you're falling and thought, I don't want to do this anymore.

Yeah, And I think it's it's not too you know, I don't want not to encourage anyone to do anything like that, because it's just realizing, you know, there's there's no coming back, you know. So it's a that's one thing that sticks in my mind quite clearly. You know, if you're not around, you're not around, that's a that's reality. And I think taking that type of risk, that's what could happen.

So just provided a sharp moment of clarity. Yeah, when you say that the impact, when you say you remember that, what do you remember from that moment just.

Hitting the water?

I think maybe is because I couldn't sleep for a while and I had had trouble going to sleep and waking up and pull a sweats and I just just kept kept on playing in my mind and it's just the impact from my back and palvis breaking. So and I think it's a, you know, one of those things that I've learned to to to deal with and.

Not be okay with.

But except that, that's they are the facts, and and just work on myself.

Yeah, so you have nightmares about I used to Yeah, how often would you have them?

I was regularly, Like I mean, it would be every night because I try to do a lot of mindfulness And even then I struggled to close my eyes because that just that thought you'd just keep coming back to my mind and I think instead of keeping that to myself, I spoke to my psych and and he's, you know, gave me some tools and helped me get through it so well.

And you don't have to share what kind of tools were you using it.

He just said to just try and just try and work on your breathing, maybe do your mindfulness with your eyes open, you know, doing puzzles.

Because I couldn't.

Yeah, it's just because I had to fill in fill in a lot of time, three times a day doing rehab, and then when I'd come back to my room where I was staying, there was a lot of downtime and they had to really cut down the visiting hours because I needed to rest. I think I was sleeping something like three times a day, just learning how to be okay to sit by yourself.

For a period of time without going back to that thought.

Yeah, I was just that it's okay to be by yourself. And because I mean, my family were terrified, you know, they thought I was I would kill myself or try to kill myself. And if I gave in to everyone worrying, everyone worrying around me, at some point, I'm going to start believing that.

So I had to yeah, I had to really.

Trust myself and that that I'm okay to be alone and everyone around me from then on will will be comfortable leaving me alone or not speaking to me for a couple of days because I was getting phone calls, text.

Message, fever checking in.

It was kind of from a great place, but also at the same time, I needed I needed to show them that I can trust myself.

So did you have to show yourself that you could trust yourself as well? Yeah? Yeah, is that almost the hardest person to convince.

Yeah, But like it was just the circumstances I was in.

I think because I think how old I think, twenty seven at the time, relatively young and practicing gratitude things that I'm grateful for in life, and I think I didn't want to be in that position, and I wanted to come back and play footy. So if I wanted to do those things, I had to get better more mentally than physically, because you know, as soon as my mind's strong again, you know, I just improved so much through my rehab.

Have the nightmare stopped or do you still get them occasionally?

They've stopped? Yeah? Thank god?

Yeah, yeah, that's so good. So talking about stuff does actually help, then it does.

Yeah, you've trust the right people.

What do you remember from your first conversation with your parents? Because they had no idea right that any any of this was going through your mind.

They had no idea, And I think I break my parents' heart, and it's just one of those things that I minute never be able to take back the pain that I've put them through. Even Emily, they were really upset that they were the first people that I came and asked for help or told them what was going on. To the point where my dad and I had a falling out for a period of time when I was still in hospital.

That sounds like it was a really hard thing to cope with on top of everything else.

I just thought he might sorry. At my lowest, I thought my dad would I understand more and be there for me. But also he was struggling with his own the way I look at it, if Hendricks was going through something like that, he'd come to me first for help.

That makes sense.

When you say that sentence, Are you feeling that you couldn't go to your dad?

I just I thought he wouldn't understand.

Yeah, and that's why you desperately want Hendrix to come to you.

But then at the same time, when things got better and we finally had a conversation, he said he was grateful that at the time, I told Joey and Rory your best mate, that I was lucky to have people like that in my life to still go to if I couldn't go to him. So, but now I understand as a parent how hard it would be. You know, if your child goes through something like that, you'd want to help them and protect them.

Are you closer now with your dads for all of this?

Yeah, much, I'm much more closer with both my parents. I mean, I think I should mention also my mum. She was really strong throughout the whole time, and you know, she was the rock of the family of its usually are. But yeah, me and my dad are close. I mean, it's probably brought us a lot closer as a family.

So your little brother, that was pretty tough for you, right when you first saw him in hospital.

Yeah, I just didn't think he would understand, but I mean, surely enough he understood, and you know, he just broke down crying, and it.

Was pretty It was pretty hard to.

I guess to witness. And yeah, when I was in that hospital, but I couldn't. I couldn't escape, you know, I couldn't go anywhere. It's probably the reality because I think because if I could escape, I probably would have. But you know, there's a lesson in there somewhere that it's our responsibility to look our after our mental health because it not only affects us but like other people around us.

So better to confront things away from How old was your little brother.

It would have been eleven.

Kids always think it's their fault, right that they did something that made the adults feel a certain way. Yeah, that's tough. The physical injuries. I mean, incredibly lucky, as you said, not to have worse ones, but they were still really bad. How bad were they?

I couldn't.

I just remember trying to every night going to sleep, just moving from one's just changing positions. If I'm sleeping on my right shoulder moving to my left, you know, my hips when united, so I'd have to move one leg to a just.

Positions in bed to physically move it with your hand.

With my hand.

So that's how painful it was. I couldn't sit down for too long. I just couldn't do simple things. I couldn't shell myself for a long time, even coughing. My groin is pretty pretty badly damaged. So it was I just had to learn to deal with a lot of pain. Even the exercises I was doing, just had to push through so much pain. But yeah, and that was part of the process of trusting, trusting in my own body, of trusting myself that it's fine to go through this

But someone as competitive and strong as you, how humbling was it to literally not be able to stand walk all of those things?

Yeah, it was.

I think just just being in a wheelchair for I wasn't allowed to go home for three months, and I speaking to Rama, I thought I'd be in hospital for at least two three weeks and then no one was being honest with me, and and then I just rang him and spoke to him, and he said, look, man, you're going to be in here for at least.

You know, for a while.

So the news eve came. All my family and friends. They had a barbecue for me back at my place and I remember Emily wheeling me around to get to the to the house.

So that that was. That was quite humbling.

And you know, I made some friends with some of the elderly that were in the hospital. You know, they were really lovely. Yeah, and I think just when I started walking, when I got off crutches I had, I had a limp for a long time and I lost so much weight. So I just had to I just had to put myself out there.

You know.

Friends wanted to catch up with me for a coffee or go out to lunch. I'd walk down or they'd come and picked me up. And people would noticed straight away. And that was one of the hardest things because in their mind, that's you know, that's that's the guy I tried to kill himself. And yeah, so that was that

Just my social anxiety got got the better of me.

But you know, friends around me they knew, and family around me they knew that they also had to help me. And because I told him I'm so nervous, and he said, look it's fine.

It's.

And five ten minutes later, yeah I was fine.

Everyone else was just.

Going on about their day. But yeah, that was hard.

People really only want to talk about themselves, Like.

No one's even looking at me.

So but yeah, I had I had to go. I had to go through that just so I can live my life again. And yeah, because you can just sit at home and not enjoy life. And but you know, you have to go through. You have to go through. It can't hide.

I mean, we all care about what other people think about us, right, as much as we say we don't, we all do. And that's part of society and everything. But You've had to deal without it many many times across your life. Have you gotten good at it? Do you think?

I just I just keep it really simple these days. I don't take on too much. I know, if I'm really tired, I just I just just rest up. And I used to be a bit of a yes man as well, you know, try to please people. I can't keep everyone happy. If I'm not happy, then you know. It's Becoming a dad is really simplified life for me. Every spare time that I have I'm with Hendrix to you know, go pick him up and he loves a baby. Yeah that that keeps me on a straight narrow everything just about him now.

And yeah, so you come back obviously wasn't straightforward. You had injuries, you had so many steps along the way. You know, you're first walking, first running, all of that sort of stuff. But I just want to skip to you run out there for your first AFL game. It was in twenty twenty, so it was in amongst COVID and everyone needed a good story and you were it. And I get goose bumps just remembering it. But what were your reflections on that day and that game? Given everything you've been through.

It was a relief because I mean I could have played a lot earlier. And then I tear my peck, So I was like, geez, you know, when when is it going to get When is it going to happen at all? And I remember the day res Shaw told told me I had to had a meeting. I had a personal meeting that I had to do in the morning, so I missed. I missed the training meeting. We went to the ground after and then you know, before before we started training, he announced it to the boys, and that was pretty cool.

You got such a big smile on your face right now.

Because I mean it was I think training might have been on Wednesday or Thursday, so.

I was like Jesus still at least two to.

Three days before the game, uh, which was which was good because then I was got back to everyone that wished me well. And then on game day, because I've been rehabbing for so long that I was just ready to go and play. And I think I didn't have any doubt in back in my mind because I knew it was it was a long and hard rehabit, so yeah, I was confident in my body. And then I think

So yeah, taught me through the goal.

I was searching for a goal all day.

You could envision the highlights on the tab and everything could you were this moment asked happened?

Is going to come? And it came the last quarter.

But before that, I tried to kick goal from outside fifty.

I got called to come to the bench and got sprayed.

Was like, what was that, Fray.

It's like, you know, there's not too many people on this team that have a license from outside fifty and you're certainly not one of them.

I don't care what your story is. Don't bomb from outside fifty.

I went back out there and sure nat Leek finally kicked the ball and marked the ball, and Sean Higgins came around past me and he said, you know you've done this a thousand times before, you know, just go through routine and kick the goal. And it's a bit arrogant than me, but I didn't even watch the goal go through I was just so confident. Yeah, and all the boys around from everywhere. That was a pretty special moment.

It was one of the best moments footy has ever seen sport in this kind. True, it doesn't matter what words or sentiment you put to it. That's it was that big a deal. Did you You knew in that moment how significant it was, right, not just for you, but for yeah.

Because I think it's just the amount of people that have helped me along my journey and even through my mental health stuff. You know, like they're a great moment in life. And you know, with all the racism stuff, all the hardship, people were generally happy for me.

So yeah, that was pretty cool.

Have you ever thought back and thought about the alternative if you didn't survive that night?

Ah, Yeah, I think you know, it'd be pretty It would have been pretty hard for my family. I mean, for obvious reasons. But I think I've met I've met a lot of people in my lifetime, and a lot of people have had positive impact on my life and vice versa. And yeah, look, you know there's only one of us. You know, there's only one nearly and there's only one magic.

So particularly our names.

You know, you currently place individuals like that, and I think that's also one of the biggest driving factors for me that I also need to keep working on my mental health. You know, it's just not something that just goes away. You have to continue work at it. If I don't, I could potentially find myself in that position again because I can't say, you know, challenge is going

So I'm so glad Hendrix has you because the alternative just it just doesn't sit right that you would have missed his life.

Yeah, nothing, that opportunity to to be a dad to him. I look now and I just can't imagine my life without him really.

You know.

Well it's hard work sometimes, but.

You know it's does your dad hug him?

Yeah? He loves my dad.

Yeah, it's funny. I bring him away over It's like Dad's big child and he's playing with him, and I'm just I've just never seen him, seen him like that before. Even with my little nieces and nephews, they get so much enjoyment.

Yeah, you have a little glint in your eye when you spoke about your dad, Hendrick, and I don't know whether it's it's the love or the fact that it's seeing the playful side of your dad that brings that out of you.

I did take a photo so I send it to you, and he's just in the living room playing with him and I'm just I was like, I've never seen that before.

So, yeah, that's all.

Before I let you go in. I really appreciate all the time that you've given. I know it's even though you've spoken about this a few times, it can't ever be easy to talk about it. But I wanted to ask you about the Demons because you've you've moved there now and they won the flag and you obviously didn't didn't play in the Grand Final. But one of my favorite, and I think lots of people's favorite things about that

Yeah, I think you know. I've put some photos up on my social media, and you know, playing for so long, played in one final, so just seeing how hard they worked all year, and I think we used to beat Melbourne, you know when I was at North Melbourne, and just seeing the team have success and how hard they worked and believed in each other. It would have been nice to have played, but yeah, I was just generally just so excited and happy for them and the fans back home.

So you found yourself in the middle of the celebration. The cup did a tour of everyone's home. Did it go to your home?

Yeah? I went to my mom and dads.

Yeah, what was that like?

It was?

It was?

It was pretty nice just to share the joy. We took it to Emily's mom and dads. I really enjoyed it, took photos with it. You know, once you hold the cup and realize it's actually quite heavy for you, but it's just it's just so physical. You can say, oh, you know, Richmond won the flag the year before and stuff like that, until you're holding the cup. It's just it's so real. Yeah, to bring it brings generine excitement and enjoy to people.

So your parents got hold of the physical cup.

Yeah, they got to hold the physical cup.

What did they think of it? I mean that's kind of one of those moments as well where you look back and you they must have just been sitting there going, what we didn't even know about this, you know, twenty years ago?

What the hell? I mean, I couldn't believe it that everyone could take the cup home. So that was the coolest thing about it. They were just so happy. I mean if I played in it, I couldn't imagine the joy in their hearts. But they were just so happy after. I guess all these years are playing footy although I didn't play in it, but me being part of a team that that's that wins a flag.

So you got another year?

Yeah, enough to work and keep being optimistic. I think that's my driving factor.

I want to finish by asking you. I know you get asked this all the time, but when you really genuinely think about it and everything you've been through, being the first Sudanese born footballer to play in the AFL, and now the story that you have that goes alongside it. Do you take to heart what that means and what you've done for so many people.

I never used to accept.

I guess the credit to some of my friends of whoever that when they say, you know, you're the first one to start it, I just I just never felt satisfied.

So you did that? Yeah, like you actually you did that.

When I win the flag, I'll thank you, not just for today, but you've always been so polite and generous with your time, and you were so bad at taking compliments.

You're constantly looking away from it as I'm saying nice things to you. But I'm so glad you're still here, and I know I messaged you that at the time, like a bazillion other people, but there's so much love for you and respect for you, and you have enriched the game tenfold, so I really appreciate it and appreciate you.

Thank you. It's more a pleasure time.

Thanks for listening to this episode of ordinarily speaking. If you want to discover more about mad Jack's life, and I highly recommend it, check out his book mad Jack by mad Jack daw Please remember you can reach Lifeline on one three double one one four, or head to Beyond Blue dot org dot AU. A new episode will drop on Wednesday. Don't forget to hit subscribe and tell your mates U