Ordinarily speaking, I've always been a cricket nuf yet heart for the first time my career, why did he want to be anywhere near a cricket fields on time?
Hello and welcome to Ordinarily speaking, I'm narrowly meadows. My guest this episode is Australian cricketer Glenn Maxwell. At thirty one, Glenn has played seven Tests, one hundred and ten one days and sixty one to twenty internationals. He is an entertainer, but in twenty nineteen Glenn took a break from the game to work on his mental health. In this episode, he details how he got into such a dark place
and how he emerged from it. We caught up at his place in Melbourne as he prepared to return from lay surgery. Please remember, if this chat triggers something for you, there is help out there. Beyond Blue and Lifeline are just a couple of places you can go. I hope you enjoyed the chat well, Maxie, thanks for spending some time with me. You recently got engaged. This is a very girly way for me to start this podcast. How did you pop the question?
Awkwardly? As most engagements go. I'd been planning it for quite a while. I contacted her sister and she helped me out with the ring and then design for everything, and then sort of started to get the wheels in motion, and so that was probably midway through last year, and all the plane that went into that was great. Finally got the ring back I think early feb or late late Jan and just thought, yep, no worries is that
we're going to do it. And unfortunately I ended up having surgery on the day that I was going to propose, so that sort of put it back in another week or so. She knew that I was going to propose at some stage, but I told her I wasn't going to propose while I had to sling on, so that sort of like sort of pushed her hopes back a bit. And then I got the sling off, She's like, ah, she'd be coming, so I was like, no, no, no,
I'll wait for my arm. I need to be straight armed again, basically blatantly lied to her, just said just so. She didn't think it was coming. So she got so a bit downhearted, and we went out to Port Melbourne and I had a few ideas of what I wanted to do. Had the ring in my pocket the whole day, and we went for a walk and just everything just felt so wrong. I was so camfident my head, so calm in my head with what I was going to do,
and then it all, it all went to shit. Basically, I ended up saying I will just go to get to lunch then, and I sat there at lunch thinking about different ways I could do it, just staring at her, and then I started to get close again, and then she said like, oh, I've got to go move my car, and then she went off and moved her car. And I was sitting there panicking for the next fifteen to twenty minutes. But what am I actually going to do?
Because this thing's booing a whole through my pocket At the moment.
You're a sweaty bollock.
At the best of time, I was shocking. I made I can't remember. I think I wore a black T shirt. Thank god. If it was grave, my god, it just would have been like completely just a sweet patch, just one giant sweet patch.
This is a nice image for every Yeah, but yeah.
Then I drove we drove to this another location. As we drove past, I saw this park that was was really it was really pretty. It was like rose Garden, really nice. I thought, that's Plan D if I ever get to that stage, and then obviously Planned C failed and as I got out of the car at the next location, wil Pekowski drives past honk and his horn waving, and I was like, well, that's that's ruin and planning sea.
So I was like rattled at that stage and then to Plan D and she's like, oh, if you need a coffee, we'll just go back to your back home and I'll meet you there. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no no, we go on to this next place, and I pinpointed exactly where I wanted to do it when she turned up, so I was trying to put the ring back in the box, so I raced off. Realized that schools got out as well, so there's kids everywhere. I was like, oh, this is a nightmare. This is
just going so badly. And she drove past as I was trying to put the ring back in the box, didn't see me, and so I'm like ducking back into my car trying to like get ready and shut my door and ran to the middle of the park, hid behind a tree. Would it looked like a real creep in a park and like watching all these people sort of like, just as long as everyone moves away from the center, I should be fine. And they were sort of just like slowly walking past their dogs and kids
walking around. And then I saw appeared around the corner and Vinnie started to walk the wrong direction, and I felt like I pinpointed on Google Maps exactly where I wanted her to meet me as well, So I was a bit annoyed and then told her to come back the other way, and she's like, I don't see a cafe anywhere here, and I was like, yeah, I was. I was sure there was one here, and I sort of pointed away and so there might be one over there, and she turned around and I just got straight down
on one knee. But as I got down, she still had my had her phone in her hand and she must have painted and clicked a button and she started calling me. So my own my pocket's vibrating like mad like, and I'm sitting there with a ring in my hand shaking anyway, and she's she started crying, and I'm like I'm not taking this phone call, but like what is going on here? And then like she left. She ended up leaving like a seven minute voicemail and it was
the whole engagement chat. That's so cool. So we've still got I've still got on my phone, so that's pretty cool. We've still got that memory. And I sent it to her. I said, I'm not sure if you know this, but I've still got the whole chat that we had afterwards, what we're going to do and like talk to her parents and all that sort of stuff, and so yeah, it was. It was pretty cool in the end, and I certainly caught her off guard.
You're smiling with your whole face right now, that whole memory. It's pretty special.
It's the worst thing a guy can do because it's it should be so easy. You know, they're going to say yes, like everything should be so simple, but it's just so difficult to actually finally just like drop down to a knee and hand them something that you've had for a while and just to put it on their finger. It's just I don't know, it's such a difficult thing to do.
What's more nerve wracking a World Cup final in front of her packed house or getting down on one.
Getting down on one knee, I can do cricket. That's fine in front of crowds and all that sort of thing, but my god, dropping down on one knee, that was so hard, Like just knowing that she'd be watching me go down. But I was like, Noah, no, your team around, I'll just be here when you turn back.
I love it now. She's been super important to you in particularly the last twelve months, in what's been a bit of a challenging twelve months for you. Tell me about her role that she played in you coming out publicly and admitting that you needed a bit of help.
She was there for me in England last year. She came away with me on a couple of tours and she's I suppose seeing the ups and downs. I think the first time she probably noticed that I wasn't myself as in the Marsh Cup at the start of the summer, I was over in Perth and I just got back from a long tour away from home, still hadn't been home. I think that was I think I was up to about eight months at that stage away from home and
I was just cooked. I was just I was tired, and I was about to go into another series and in my mind I sort of had. I was still thinking about cricket. I was still thinking about what technique I was sort of going to try and start this summer and try and get better. I was already thinking about how I was going to get better and where I was going to be at the end of the summer, and my mom was just racing. I was thinking so far ahead, and I just completely forgot about what I
was doing at the moment. She knew that straight away. And I think when we got back to Melbourne, I was sort of finally able to see some family. I was still wasn't really my energetic, bubbly self. I wasn't sort of, I suppose outwardly starting conversation with everyone. I wasn't sort of. I wasn't happy basically, and it wasn't something I noticed. I just thought, I'm just tired. It's just one of those things. It's I'm just a bit run now, I'll be fine, and sort of pushed through.
And once I got picked for the Australia team for the T twenties at the start of the summer, I think it was in November or late late October November, and I just remember going to those first few meetings and I I just felt this overwhelming anxiety just fall across me, and just like they're asking for professionalism, they're asking for one hundred percent commitment, and they're asking for all this, and I just I just instantly felt like
the weight of the world just form. I'd just like thinking, I just I'm not sure I can give them one hundred percent right now. I just I feel like I'm operating at maybe sixty seventy percent at best. I wasn't turning up to training for the Vix or anyone before that, thinking Oh, today is the day I'm going to try and get better. I was just thinking, how do I get through today? So I'm ready to at least play
it eighty percent for the game. And I suppose all the words that we used during the team meetings, I was just I was so anxious, scared, worried about that first conversation I was actually going to have with someone about it. And after speaking to Vinnie, she said, You've got You've got to tell someone you can't play cricket like this. You can't keep going like this. Otherwise is going to be pretty quick, quick down with Spiral and before you know it, you'll be done. So she flew
over to Adelaide. I got a hold of Michael Lloyd, the team psych, and it was probably it was probably a little, a little floating comment that Jail made during training that probably ignored the conversations. I was going to talk to the psych anyway, and I was just I was batting the nets and he's like, oh, how are you going? And I said, oh, not great. He goes, how are we going to get you too? Great for the series, And in typical, like brash, pointless reply, I said,
because it's T twenty and I'm a gun. So I was just like I did, and he just laughed. I just tried to sort of exude some sort of confidence because it was it wasn't it wasn't like arrogance. It was just like I need to sort of try and keep JL off my back for a little bit, just so I can make him laugh, and like that would be funny and typical Maxie. Typical Maxie. He's just he's just up with it. He's just getting ready, no worries,
that's fine. And then yeah, I went into the nets, had had a pretty good net and got out and he came back up to me afterwards create to him, and he he said, look, mate, hey you He said, yeah, I'm struggling a little bit. He goes, I'll make sure you see Loydi and I said, yeah, it's I've already organized it. So and then I caught up with Lloydi that night and had a really good chat with him and just sort of said, look, I'm cooked. I don't think I can give one hundred percent to this team
at the moment. And it's it's it's actually scaring me a little bit, like I don't know, I don't know what's happened. I don't I don't know how I feel. But I'm not getting any joy out of it anything. I played golf the other day, which is normally I escape from cricket, and it'small normally the thing that sort of gives me that time away from the game. I just found myself angry the whole time. I just I didn't enjoy it. I got home, I didn't show any emotion at all during the game, and I came back
to the hotel and I just went that sucked. I just hated it. And so all the things that I found that I enjoyed just disappeared like it was it was shocking. Everything I did I just didn't enjoy, and I got angry at weird times as well, Like it was like the littlest scene would tick me off. The biggest thing I wouldn't worry about, and things that should make you laugh. I just was I was dead panning. I was just giving nothing to it. So my emotions
were all out of whack. And yeah, I suppose once I had that chat with Lloydy, he sort of started talking me through the options and he goes, oh, do you reckon? You can play tomorrow? I said, I reckon, I can get through tomorrow. Let's try, and let's try and keep his hidden until we get back to Melbourne.
Then I can sort of fizzle off into the distance and I'm okay, I reckon, they get through these two games, and then once we get to Melbourne, hopefully hopefully we're there two in your up or if we're still in the series, I can play Melbourne then just go home and and just be away for a while. And the original plan I suppose was to just see how I go for a couple of weeks, and once once I got through that first game, I remember speaking of Vine about so that just felt so weird. I battered so
well in that game. I got sixty odd I think not less than thirty and barely missed the middle of the whole time. Just had a day out with the bat. But I didn't really enjoy any of it, Like it was just the weirdest feeling, like you're taking down an international attack and just not enjoying one bit of it. The only joy I really got was when Davy Grease hundred. It was it was like, well, that's awesome. But everything else in that game, I just barely batter than Nihilid.
And I was probably lucky to be on the mic. I think in the field that day that it actually distracted me a little bit. I was actually able to think about other people and so distract myself a little bit talk to someone else while I was sort of going about my business out there. But sometimes when you're not on the mic, you just get lost in the field, and I found that was happening a lot in those
games before the T twenty series. I was I was just off for the fairies in the field and just so distracted about what happens in the next game, What's going to happen, Like in the future, what's going to happen here? And I was just so far erased from the common day like of that moment. I was just so far away from it. And I think once we got to Brisbane that they were really good. They kept checking up on me to see how it was going, and I was like, you know, I know it's either
one or two more games. I'm okay, It's not like I'm thinking too far ahead. I'm just thinking I've got to get through these couple of games. And it actually sort of calred me down a little bit. It was it was a relief knowing that I only had to get through another one or two games, and I didn't have to bat in that game, didn't have to do a whole lot in the field, and it was just
quite an easy game to sort of cruise by. And then they came to me straight at the game and said, we're gonna now I tune it up when we get back to Melbourne. You can just go. And I was like, that would be great, thanks very much. I'd appreciate it.
And I had to Did you feel relieved in that moment?
One hundred percent? I felt like everything was just gone and I'd been thinking about during the game, like once we sort of had it one, I was like, I wonder if I can stopped now, like the paint can finally just stop. And then I specifically remember after the game when they when we talked about it and I was about to announce it to the group and they had no idea what was going on. I didn't even tell I didn't tell Finchy. I didn't tell any of
the boys. I didn't want them to be distracted about what was going on with me.
And so Finchy is the captain but also your best mate.
Yeah, so Finch's someone who I generally confide him with everything, and he probably knew something was slightly off, like, but being obviously the captain, he's got so many other things when he's played, and I'm trying to take it easy on him without putting keeping more stuff on him. I know the stresses he's under as a captain, and so it's just like I'll let him go. And when I went over to him and said I'm done after this, like I'm just I'm going to have a bit of
time off, and I've been struggling for a while. I sort of noticed something wasn't quite up. We haven't really caught up much recently, so it normally is one of the first guys I messaged when I'm on tour. I'm just like makee let's go for a coffee, beer, whatever it is, dinner. Yeah. Once once I told him he's like great decision, well done, and had to get up in front of the group and that was pretty difficult, and once everyone left, I sort of just broke down
tears and just was just it was more. That was probably the first time I sort of showed any emotion for eight nine months, so I was probably since the World Cup, so it would have been about five or six months i'd showed any emotion whatsoever. It was just I was just drained. I just had enough, like emotionally just pretty much damaged. And once once I'd got that off my chest, a few guys just came up and gave me big hugs, like guys like Ashton Aga, Zamps,
guys I'm really close to. We're just we're just like really good supports to that stage. And credit to a lot of the guys. They kept in contact, they sent messages and just to see how I was going. And yeah, I was warned about how the next few days, we're going to pan out. Like I sort of knew that, like, yeah, there's gonna be some support coming your way, and that can be sometimes really hard to deal with, and they
went wrong. It was those next two or three days were probably the worst I'd had in the next six months. It was as much as support was great, it was also so confronting and not something near like it's great seeing it now, like after you've sort of gone through it, but like when I saw it, I was like overwhelming. I wanted to go further back into my little hole and just stay there and not come. I felt like
I was letting a lot of people down. I felt like I was I felt like I was taking easy out and I just I didn't know what I was doing. And I barely spoke to anyone those three days. I sort of shut everyone out of my life. And I still remember the first first phone call I finally made, and it was to Moses on Reeks, and that was I barely replied to a text message before then as well, And when I called him, I just first said, mate, I'm I think I'm finally ready to actually talk to
people now. I've sort of haven't spoken anyone for a couple of days, and I just we had a really long, long, nice chat and just talked about his experiences and actually had a little bit of a laugh, which was nice
and almost at her own expense. And that's the thing i'd probably it had been a while since I've been able to take the take the mickey out of myself and and just relax a bit, and that sort I probably got the ball rolling a little bit and I was able to probably pick up the phone a few more times that week and have a few more chats
with people. But it was a it was a lot longer process than I thought it was going to be, And certainly after that first week, I knew that I was doing the right thing, because there's no way I could have finished off the summer.
It was hard for you when it was public, and you know, and like you say, it was overwhelming. You know, he had virat kally talking about in press conferences. It sort of went around the world of cricket. How was it for your parents and your family?
Yeah, they were shattered. They were I don't think they knew the extent of how I was feeling through all that, and I didn't really speak to them much either. Through that stage as well, I was I told Vinnie not to come over. I was like, no, I just I just want to be alone, and that would have been so hard for them. All they want to do is support their loved ones, and I knew, I knew that was going to be hard for them, but it was just what I felt like I needed at the time,
and I just wanted to be by myself. I didn't do much else than seal on the couch and just watch TV and stay on the couch. I basically slept here and that was it. I just I just stayed away from people. I didn't want to sort of ruin anyone's day with my mood and didn't want to sort of bring everyone else into my dark sort of abyss. That was I found myself stuck in.
We'll get into how you got help in a little bit. I just want to rewind to you said you were on the road for a really long time. Tell me about the headspace you're in because you're in the UK, you were doing county cricket, you had the World Cup. It was a really long stint over there. What was your headspace like when you were there and shut off from everyone back home.
I think. I think from the start of the World Cup onwards, I couldn't have been more focused like I was. I was at the peak of my powers. I think coming into the tournament. I was on fire. Had a really good series in India, and the UAE played really well against Pakistan and Dubai, and I just felt like I was I was getting everything right at the right time. And then the practice matches we had before the before the tournament started, hit the ball so clean like it was.
Still was was really happy with the way everything was going. And there was probably that week in between county cricket where I went over, missed the IPL decided to go over to Lancashire and get some cricket in to lead into the World Cup. The week coming back was probably the most draining one. Obviously, everyone was required back in camp in May May second, I think it was, and I was over in England already had to come back and it takes you a few days to just anyway.
And I found myself back playing in three days time in Australia and I just didn't know where it was. I was still a bit jet laid. I was still a bit over the place, and then a couple days later we were back over to Turkey for the for the War Memorial in Ena Cove, and then back into the World Cup, and I just I just sort of when we got back to England, I was like, I
feel like I was here just the other day. It was just it was such a quick turnaround of going around the world in a week, and I was sort of a bit cooked to it for a while, so that so it took me a while to get back into normal motion again and just found out. I was just found I was a bit sluggish at the start of the tournament and you pay for that, like and I did, like I was. I started off a couple of games and played okay, and then a couple of
things don't go quite right. People start talking about you got an issue with a short ball, You've got an issue with this, like trying to hit the ball too hard, and all of a sudden, all these things that you're thinking about yourself anyway, or people are telling you as a coaching staff, they're in the public area.
And the other things that hurt, aren't they It's not the ones where you don't know what you're talking about. It's the ones that people are pretty much telling the truth. Is that fair? Or touching on something that you're already sensitive about?
Well, they were touching on things that I was working so hard on, and I was like, I've done so much in my lead up to this to eradicate this problem, and I feel like I'm doing really well. So I got out couple of times the shortball in the early in the tournament, and I watched the replays back and I'm like, I was in a really good position there, like that, that's fine, that can happen. One of them was off the toe of the bat and I got caught in bold and I was like, that's fine, that's
an okay dismissal. I take that. It's okay. You're in a great position. You've seen the boy early. That's fine. And then it comes up you've been out to the short ball again. It's like, but it's not the same thing. It's just not the same thing. I tried to rap one down the third man and got an outside edge and got caught behind. It's like, oh, he's out to the short ball. It's not the same thing. That's an execution ere It's not like as it's not a weakness as such. In my mind, it's like I've just I
haven't executed properly. I was just my head's just slightly moving away to try and get that finer. So it's like, I'm okay with those dismissals where it's getting highlighted and the coaches are reading that and going, oh, yeah, we should probably go harder on him and talk to me about And then all of a sudden, you've got the balls and the nets starting like with the coach whispering
in the area, going bouncing, bouncing, bouncing. He's got to work and he's bouncing, and that starts to affect your training because you started to worry about what's what's he telling the balls? Why they we've got this mutual agreement we don't try and hurt each other. And the nets, and all of a sudden, I'm getting balls past my ears when we've got no side screens. The wickets are terrible, like you're in this inclosed area where you can't get out.
So I was just like, so I was starting to get frustrate that, and then the frustrations start to build, and then your performances start to get worse. And it's just like a snowball effect of just it just keeps going. I specifically remember a net session at Lord's where I had to face Starky and Paddy Cummins, and I went
through the whole net session just basically blocked everything. I didn't play a shot, hit maybe one straight drive which barely would have got a run, and I walked out and I've got that many pats on the back and I was like, that's not my job in this team. My job's to try and clear the ropes, like be there, like smack them at the end. And it's like I'm getting pats on the back for the wrong thing. Like
if it's test match training, no worries, that's fine. But I'm literally just trying to get through these net sessions. I'm not trying to anything out of them. I'm just obviously trying to get your approval that I'm trying to do the right things. But in my head, I know it's not the way I'm going to play in a game.
So it was just it just started to get this weird cat and mouse sort of game where it's like I'm doing things in the nets to make sure they're happy, not what I'm happy, So that was sort of a bit of a snowball effect through the tournament as well.
Fair to say that's been an issue for you throughout your career. Is the changing of all different opinions of what's required of you?
Is that fair? Yeah? Certainly. And I think people will always doubt the way middle order batters train it training Like you've got a guy like Alex Carey who bats it six or seven in the one day side, and he goes in there and starts practicing laps no and says a thing. I go in there and try to reverse sweep a spinner and everyone's down my throat about that's irresponsible. It's like, hold on a second, we're playing the same role. Like just because I'm doing it doesn't
mean you have to jump down my throat. It's been something that's sort of stayed with me for a long period of time because one person mentioned it. All of a sudden, it gets stuck in your mind, and then you play one bad shot the nets and people sort of go straight back to that conversation that's happened a few years ago. It's frustrating, but it's something I suppose over the last little period I've been able to address and like just go, you know what, I've just got
to do whatever makes me happy. And and I think during the Big Bash, I had really good chats with a couple of coaches there about what I needed to do to get ready and came up with a formula that really worked for me. And I felt comfortable, I felt happy. I felt ready to go when it came game time. And I think that's all people want from a player is if you're one hundred percent ready to go,
game time doesn't really matter what happens to training. I'm not like Steve Smith who tries to hit the thousand balls the day before training or two days before training, whatever it is. I don't need a lot to get ready because I could go in any situation. He knows he's back at three, he knows when about when he's going to go, and you know he's got plenty of time to get himself in. But for me, I could go in with three balls left, I could go in with thirty overs left. So it's one of those things
you've got to practice for every situation. So that's what some people find hard to understand. Would you like to coach you I think I would. I think I think, especially after cricket, like I'd love to go into coaching, and I find I think I'm going to be a far better coach than a player. I know how frustrating I can be as a player, but I know that I reckon I'll be able to get the best out of myself. I've had a lot of coaches, I've had a lot of captains, and you sort of tie and
take a bit from the best ones. You try and understand what doesn't work for some players. I watch I watch a lot of our training sessions and see the way our coaches go about with certain players, the language I use to them, and even in different teams around
the world. So you've got the Stars, you got the Lancashire team, Australia and Victoria, and you sort of you try and pick up the best bits of the best coaches and you sort of see what works for them and what works with the players, and you're sort of trying to adapt that to your game and what would work for you. And I think I'd be able to coach myself.
And would you frustrate you one hundred percent?
I would. We'd have some good arguments that's for sure.
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Glenn Maxwell. So going back to the World Cup, there was a moment where Sean marsh gets injured and you're with him in the rooms. Tell me about that moment.
I was pretty angry. I was frustrated. I was upset. So I was in there, laying on the on the physio table. My arm's like's just sitting on some ice, in a bit of pain, and I look, I've been told that saus has been hit as well. Sas walks up the stairs, comes in, kicks his helmet into the into the rooms, and I'm laying on this table and I'm watching this helmet come towards me. Bounces once, bounces twice,
bounces up, knocks me off the table. Ice pat goes everywhere, and he's just typical way, sort of half a smirk, sort of looks at me and go, yeah, sorry mate. And I couldn't help but like, go, it's fine, it's fine. You look on more pain than me. But so I knew he was in trouble when he came in, and immediately I sort of thought I felt bad for him. I completely forgot that the fact that I was injured,
and I just thought, I hope he's okay. If anything, I wish we could swap our news, like whatever happens, Like he looks bad, like real bad. And we went to the hospital together and we're both sitting there and I think we're both hoping for the opposite news, and that's not a great thing when you're in that sort of mindset. So I was. I was already not a great headspace at that stage, and I was frustrated with
the way I was playing. I was frustrated with how I was being perceived, and I felt like I was getting starts every game and then just find a way to get out. And when I got hit, I was just I was angry, and a part of me was hoping it was broken. I was like, nah, this is it. I just need to break. And then when I got hit, was it hurt, But it just wasn't quite the pain where I was like, I'm not sure that's broken. I
felt bruised. I felt like it there might be a small fracture there, but it doesn't feel like it snapped right through. I was thinking about things I could do on the way back to snap it. I was so angry. I was just I was so angry with myself. I had indirected anger at other people in it. It didn't make sense, but I was just angry at myself and not being able to produce at all this World Cup.
And I thought it would have been an easy escape because I felt like I was going to get dropped at some stage, and I thought, maybe this is the way.
It was your ticket out of there.
It was it was my ticket out of like disappointment. I felt like I was gonna get dropped at some stage, and I thought, I want to play this whole tournament and then get dropped to the big dance, like if I'm injured, like at least it's my that's my escape. It's like, oh yeah, I would have played, but I was injured. As it turns out, we both go in there and I get the news that it's not broken. There's some bad bone bruising, but I should be okay.
And sos Go's in there he's got a fracture and he was absolutely shattered, and I was absolutely shattered for him. And that was with a harsh reality of like, I can't believe I felt that selfish that I'd be thinking, I hope it's broken, and he's going in there thinking that the other way that's probably that should have been the first alarm bell that something's not right. And when I spoke about that, when I talked to Vinnie about that later on, she has it's a bit it's a
World Cup, like, how can you feel like that? And I was, I just I don't know, and should have been the first alarm bell. And so the next day we trained, and it was on a few painkillers, and I had Jail and Ricky Ponting just bounce the bounce the crap out of me in one net to see if I was ready to go, and that was my fitness test, and got hit a couple of times, but I just sort of I literally blank faced them both
and just yeah, yep, this is what I'm doing. Yeah, I'm sure whatever makes everyone else happy, Like, I'll just I'll just do it. I'll just get through the rest of this tournament. Hopefully we'll win a World Cup. Hopefully I can somehow find something some some sort of form
in the next game or so. And there's probably the third or fourth ball I faced in South Africa, and I hit a pool shot as hard as I'd hit the whole tournament, and it went for four and I was like, that's what I've been searching for, that's what that's the sort of form I've been in the whole tournament, and I just haven't been able to find at gap or I feel like I'm getting out, and I was like, that's it, that's the moment. And two hours later I nicked one off Ribata pool shot and I thought, that's
going over the keeper. I'll be fine here to Cock takes the one handed hangar above his head and I'm like, that's typical. That's basically just typical my whole tournament. And as I was walking off, I was thinking, well, that's the end of my tournament. I'm definitely not playing the next game. And it was a slow, frustrating walk off and we just lost Kowaja to hamstring and Saucers out with a broken arm. I'm thinking there's going to be a couple of replacements in and they're going to come
straight in. Wade, he's been in an unbelievable form. Pete, he's been on the casp. They're going to come straight in. They're going to take my spot. They're going to do a far better job than I am, and that was the reality it was going through my head. I was already thinking headed, I was already thinking about the negatives that were going to happen in the future, and that
was what started to happen during that World Cup. I just started to think about all the things that could go wrong instead of sort of staying in the moment of like what every cricketer should. I still remember the conversation, so Vinnie was over there with me at that stage, because I remember having the phone call from it was jail or Cracker, I can't remember, but they told me that I was playing in the semi final. I was like, thank you so much, thank you, like congratulations, good luck
in the game. And as soon as I got off the phone, I just bored my eyes out, like I had Vinnie there just I just I couldn't believe that I'd been given that opportunity to play in a World Cup semi after how little I delivered during the tournament. I was, I was mentally gone anyway, but it actually sort of reinvigorated me to I'm going to turn it on. I'm going to win us this game. You don't do everything I can, And I just remember facing Stokes and those first few balls and I was like, no, you're
not getting me out facing him. No, werries all over him. Arch it comes on, drops a short ball, absolutely hammer it through midwek at four and I was like, this is it, this is my day. Then he boy was
a knuckleball. Because I'm so switched on and so and so intense, I end up just popping one straight to cover and I just remember seeing this ball in their just going no, it can't all be over, like it just can't, like this is it, this is the day, and just that feeling of walking off the ground and sitting in the chain rooms going how can I be so switched on today? And it's still not happening. It's
still not work, Like I don't get it. But I feel like I've done everything right mentally before the game, prepared so well. I feel like I've done everything right, and I'm in a great headspaceman out in the middle, I'm talking to my partner, I'm doing everything I do and I'm switched on, and I still can't get it right. I just still can't seem to succeed, and you just go straight back into that negative downfall and as you're watch in England just pile on the runs and comfortably
over on our total. I'm just thinking, I can't believe this is it, Like I can't believe we're going to lose a Word Cup semi on the back of me having an average tournament. You're thinking about what have I done wrong to put us in this position? And I just sort of went back to different games during the tourment where if we had a won that we would have finished top played against New Zealand and then played a different place, played it, played at Old Trafford again,
place we played really well at. Instead, We've had to travel again and play at edge Baston where we've got an awful record and England basically undefeated.
There, and you felt like you were to blame.
I felt like I was one hundred percent to blame. And I was looking around the change and going, I wonder if they're thinking the same thing. I wonder if they're looking at me, going if only Maxie had turned up this tournament, and I was just that was just the position I got into. It was just like then I started thinking if I wonder if Wadey playing today would have made a difference. He's been read hot Nick. He's been making hundreds everywhere, and I felt bad for him.
I felt bad that he wasn't playing instead of me. And then seeing my parents after the game was they were just in tears of balling their eyes out, and they felt bad. And Mum and heard about me getting the news the night before, and she was upset already and she'd been crying the whole way through the game, knowing the sort of pain that I was in, just sort of mentally, And yeah, seeing her was hard after the game.
The thing about podcast is people can't see you, but throughout that entire explanation, you were shadow budding. You were staring at a spot like you were back in the middle of the ground playing that innings all over again. You feel this intensely, don't you.
Yeah? I still remember so vividly, and I probably played my mind through that a few times because I just thought, if I can get through, I can I can win this this game. I just felt like I could. If I could get on a roll here, if I could just bat the way I know I can bat, I can win this this game. I can get this to a total that there's no way Link can get near I've done it before at Edge Bason, I know I
can do it again. And I felt like the way I started that innings against those bowlers, I felt like they knew it as well. They could probably see in my eyes that chatter had stopped already only after a couple of shots, and I think I only got eighteen or twenty or something like that, but I just felt so switched on. I felt so ready for the contest, and something I'd felt only a couple of times during the time. But I felt like it was back at
the right time. And then as soon as you get out, every negative thought you had the day before comes straight back and just sits back on your shoulders.
How much of what you're thinking about is reality versus paranoia? Because obviously you are under a lot. There is a lot more talk about you, just by the sheer way you play the game and the way you present yourself. But do you think when you look back at it now, there's also an element of paranoia there of you know, the coaches talking to the bowlers in the nets or the players in the rooms, like, how does do you know what I'm trying to ask?
Yeah, I think a lot of its reality I think that paranoia probably comes from past experiences and sort of what you've been through in the past and how things have sort of worked out. So you sort of drawn those experiences and sort of try and put that into the reality, and if it doesn't come out that like that, it can be judges paranoia. And but yeah, I think a lot of it was probably that from the year before, so being in and out of the one day side, not knowing if I was going to be in the
World Cup squad in the following year. It was obviously in the back of my mind was like is this it is this the last game I played for Rostralian One Day Cricket And.
So you're carrying that around for a really long time.
Yeah, but before the before the World Cup starts like you're on fire, You're going really well. The coaches comparing you to vir at Culling and interviews, you feel like you're on top of your game. You're doing everything right by going to England, not going to the IPL, giving yourself six one day games over there in English conditions, to prepare for a final, to prepare for the World Cup, and I just felt like everything I did previous to the World cup didn't show with my performances. I felt
like I did. I ticked every box, I did all the right things, and it just wasn't matching up. And it was so so overwhelmingly hard to take.
So you come back and you've spoken about how you ended up asking for help, then you actually you get some help. What did you put into the place, What were the practical things that you did? How often were you seeing this psych? Were you diagnosed?
Did you know?
What did you end up doing to get better?
So I did see a psych. His name's Ranjit. He works a lot with footy players, and so I saw him after Michael Lloyd put me onto him. Obviously Lloyd he was still working closer with me. We were chatting on the phone a fair bit, but to have someone in Melbourne that I could sort of rest on. We caught up. It was once every fortnight, but I was on the phone I suppose with Lloydi. Outside of that
as well, I started writing it. I started writing a diary for the first few weeks, just to at least put some thoughts onto paper, and I think that helped for a while. I was able to sort of rid myself of the crap that was going on in the back of my mind, and I just I enjoyed writing anyway, so it was just like I was just writing random stuff on paper. So I was able to sort of start writing, and that distracted me for long enough to stop feeling sorry for myself for I suppose five minutes,
and then I think. I think also trying to get into a daily routine was good. I sort of tried to get out, get to a cafe, read the paper, sort of blank it out from the world a little bit, and try and sort of be as normal as possible. And I didn't pick up my golf clubs for a while. But once I finally got the carriage actually go out to a golf course and I suppose see other people in public. Was It was hard at first, and then
it became easier. I ended up going back to my local golf course where I played with a bunch of old fellas at Sanctuary Lakes. I just put my name down the sheet and play with them, and they were really good. They were like they didn't really over.
Because that's the other thing. It's the people that you're running into in the public. Everyone knows who you are, so that were you're getting support or how was that going.
Yeah, people just people were really good, and I suppose they weren't sort of over intrusive. They just sort of they come and give me a pat on the back and got congratulations on being so brave, like I hope you hope you're going okay, and good luck with your journey. And that was basically the extent of a lot of the conversations I had in the public, and even some of those, i'd sort of get a bit teary, like
even just them just being short little conversation. I'd sort of thanks very much, and then I'd sort of turn away and just sort of wipe a tear away and have to sort of keep my head down for a while, put my something's back on or something like just Yeah. I suppose once I got the carriage to sort of go out and I suppose catch up with the guys I played golf with. And I think that was probably the beginning of me sort of reintegrating back into the public and sort of feeling like I was a human
being again. And I suppose that was the thing I think over the last eight months, I felt like I didn't feel like a human being. I just felt like I was this person being portrayed as a cricketer, and I was just I felt like that was all I was. I just I didn't know what I was like as a person. I didn't know what my personality was anymore because I was thinking so much into the future and
what could potentially happen. I was never there when people were talking to me, and I saw it became a bit of a cardboard cutout everywhere I went.
So you end up eventually coming back to the Big Bash. Did you come back too soon? Or were you happy when you came back?
No, I came back at the right time, and the couple of weeks before when I played club cricket and came back in the first game I played was the second week of a two day with fitz Ronkassa. And the reason I chose that one as the first day back of cricket was it was in Geelong. It was a long way away from Melbourne. I was trying to sort of sneak back in without anyone sort of noticing, and we were batting and I was sort of just sort of sitting there chatting. I just wanted to get
back around a group of mates again. I think it was about four or five weeks after I was diagnosed and.
What were you diagnosed?
Within it it was like a mild depression. Yeah, I suppose in an extreme case of sporting anxiety as well. So it was like, yeah, it was just basically hampering every relationship I had. Once I got back in the change room, it was it was weird. It was like weird been around it. Like even just rolling my cricket bag out of my car and putting it in the
change room, that was weird. Probably the worst part of it was putting the pads on for the first time in over a month, and I felt myself getting emotional just doing that. I was like, this is that was one of the hardest things I've done, And I think in the previous month was actually just putting the pads on and what was the emotion? Fear like just like is this too soon? What am I doing? Like? Do I want to be here? Is this the game I really want to play for the rest of my life?
I just started thinking do I actually I actually started thinking do I even like cricket? Like these are all the emotions going through my head? What am I doing? And then so I was next in for the next hour and fifty minutes, and the first hour was I was so nervous just watching and it didn't really matter. We were going to win the game and we're always cruising. I was just so nervous about just going out there again, like having to play cricket and there's no real sense
to it. It was just like, I don't know how I'm going to go out there. I'm going to don't know what I'm going to do. Am I just am I just going to watch a lot? Is it going to be straight back to the gabble when I'm left when on the middle leg or what's going to happen? I don't really know. And once I was sitting there with the guys and just talking absolute junk for an hour, I was actually okay, and drinks came and I found myself actually quite relaxed and just talking to the guys.
And then I think we lost a week hit with about ten minutes ago to lunch, and I went out there. They put most of guys on the fence and I nicked one where first slip. I tried to hit this ball so hard first ball and nick to probably where first slip would have been went four and because I think we're going to declare in about eight minutes time, so I was like, I'm just going to try and have some fun. And yeah, I ended up facing two
balls and that was it. Came off not out five, and I remember telling the pads off, just going, thank god, that's over. At least I'm back. At least I'm I'm trying to get back into it. And the following week when I played, things started to feel a bit more normal again. Like I enjoyed the warm up, I enjoyed like being around the guys, I enjoyed being in the field.
I enjoyed the like the experience of cricket again. And I think I got fifty or sixty and I came off the grid around and said to one of the boys, I think I found it again. And it was there was nothing to do with how about it or anything like that. It was just the joy of actually playing the game and with your mates again. So that was that was a massive step, and I think that was
what five or six weeks after. It wasn't too long after that that I was sort of back into training with the stars, and I think there was one more shill game which I put myself I put myself available for and after having a chat with Ranjured as well and said, look, I think I'm ready to go back and this is the last Shill game before Christmas. And he's like, yeah, if you think you're ready, go for it. I don't see any issue with that. And they just decided to go a different way, which is fine, and
I was like, that's fine. I was just get ready for the big bash and gives me an extra a week or two and I'd been having chats with David Hussey about the side and about what we're going to do for the last couple of weeks, and I found that really soothing. I found that worrying about other people instead of myself was really soothing. And looking forward to seeing how new guys go in the team, and Nathan Cook and I come over from WA like, that's exciting.
Hilton car right, Clint Hinchliffe, these guys coming over, that's new and exciting. And I just found myself getting lost in other people's games and I found that really refreshing and relaxing. And once the Stars tournament started, or once the I suppose the camp started, I was pumped I was ready. It was one hundred percent ready.
To go, and then you get picked again for Australia and then the surgery happens. How were the emotions through all of all of that.
Well, I felt like I was better at dealing with them. So throughout the Big Bash, I was still talking to people. I was still trying to keep those conversations going. I was a lot better to pick up the phone during the Big Bash. So that was one of the things I put into place, was you.
Got better at asking for help.
Yeah. So as soon as I felt like I was starting to drop away a little bit, I picked the phone up. I talked to someone. I talked to as many people as I could. I got some different opinions, and I heard some different voices, and I just found that I'd sort of go away for a bit and go that's good, Like I can take a bit out
of this conversation. I'm going to take a be abut of this employ that into what I'm doing, and I just I suppose getting the carriage to actually just speak to people like it sometimes going to be a hard thing picking up the phone and talking to someone and saying, look, I'm just not feeling quite right today, or just I'm feeling a bit off, like any do you know why, or you've known me for a long time, whatever it is.
And that was hard, and I think keeping being really harsh on myself to keep appointments and stuff like that. So if let's just say we're catching up for a coffee, I'm going to be there like one hundred percent, I'll do everything you make sure i'm there. So catching up with my family, like I'm going to come see the kids yet nowhere I'm coming, and just making sure I'm
keeping on top of those. And I think in the past I've probably been quite flippant with like, oh yeah, like I could catch up, but yeah, I might be busy, and then just sort of going off into my own little direction of just being like either lazy or being in my own little bubble of thinking too much in the future, what do I need to do in here? And basically forgetting So I was just you were being present,
being present, just trying to be present. I was trying to be there for other people as much as they'd been there for me. So that was a really good change I had through the Big Bash, and I think once I had the selection being picked for Australia. It was really surprising I found, probably not so much the T twenty stuff, but the one day stuff. I was really surprised and caught me off guard.
Were you happy or were you fearful or were you I was happy.
I was probably a little bit fearful, and I told people straight away. I was like, jeez, that's caught me off guard. Like I'm a bit nervous about that. It's a bit longer than I thought I was going to be away from home. That's another month, like you guys, sure Like So I spoke to Cracker about and all that sort of thing in jail, and I was able to have those conversations straight away, and it was really good,
Like I felt clear and felt happy after. It wasn't like I saw just let it simmer there and just then let it go. I was able to sort of have those conversations straight away, and I was able to get through that. And I knew the last five or six games of the Big Bash, and I was sort of struggling a bit with my elbow. I wasn't sure
the extent and the original plan. So I had the MRI I had done before the semi final, I think it was, and everyone knew I had that done, and there was some floating bone in my joint which was causing me a fair bit of discomfort, but I was able to sort of move my way through it and it got through to a stage where it was just
affecting day to day stuff. I couldn't put a shirt on, I couldn't I couldn't do certain things, and took a fair few painkillers for the final to make sure I could get through, and been a pretty cold, wet night. It probably didn't react that well and the next day it sort of swelled up a fair bit when I saw the specialist in the morning and he just looked at me and said no. Because I was hoping that he'd say, you can get a job before you go to South Africa, you'll be fine, and away you go.
So that was my expectations of how the conversation was going to go. After having chats with the doctor the physio and like, you'll just get a job, you'll be fine. I was like, perfect, no worries, they'll be sweet, and he goes, no, you need surgery now. The job's not gonna do a thing. So that was hard to take but same thing. Oh, I've got the front foot do on the phone it started speaking to people. I was like, look,
this is the reality of what's going on. I tried to sort of take all the emotion out of it and go, yep, it would be great to be playing for Australia, but I think of the long term. It's a teacher. We walk up at the end of the year. Let's get myself right now, and instead of me having three months out of the game where I'm sort of trying to get through and it all turns out badly, it's better to get it done now. Miss a month. It's it's not that bad.
How are you feeling now, because we caught up just before Christmas? I think it was just before the big bash actually, and you were not yourself fair to say. I also wasn't like, well, we were both a couple of glum little people puching up, but you almost seemed a bit numb. You. You were sort of vacant of emotion, whereas now you sit across from me and you look like the MAXI that that sort of you know, come to know and love over the years. How are you feeling within yourself?
Yeah? I think I'm feeling back to normal, if there is such a thing as normal.
I think we particularly when we're talking about you, well.
Anyone from the Melbourne Stars for that. Yeah, I think there's so much positivity I suppose going on around my life at the moment outside of cricket as well. So it's nice to actually have these outside distractions away from the game that I'm able to be present now, to be actually able to be here in the moment talking
to people, listening to them. I've got a couple of friends that sort of come back into my life that I'm able to talk to them about day to day things, and I find it's just a great way to break up my day and I'm able to sort of concentrate on how they're going, and then everything else becomes instinct. From then on. Cricket's quite a simple thing now, it's not. I suppose it is the bell and end all being my job, but it's also like I'm not riding on what's going to happen in a week. I'm not going
to worry about what's going on in the future. It's just I'm going to do what I can to get ready today and I'm going to try and put everything into place to next game, I'll hopefully have success. If not, that's fine. I'll talk to people that I know that are going to have the best interests at heart for me and do everything I can to have success going forward.
Do you still love the game?
Yeah? I do. I think the Big Bash really helped that. I think having the people around as well, guys like Trent Woodhill, Clint McKay, Jared Lofman, and David Husseys as the coaching staff, they were amazing and helping me regain the love and maintain that love of the game as well. And the amount of positive and negative conversations we had about different things was awesome throughout the timent. Whenever I picked up the phone, they'd answer and just we'd talk
for five ten minutes about absolutely nothing. But it was just me getting the garbage out of my head. So I was able to go out during the game or during training and just focus on what we needed to do as a team to have success. And I think that sort of I think shone through at the start of the time where it was pretty clear and what needed to happen, and the guys took that really well,
which was nice. And I suppose it could have been hard for those guys sort of know that I'd had six or so weeks off away from the game, and all of a sudden I was their captain. But they were brilliant, they were supportive, they were I suppose everything that captain could ask for as a team.
I've always wondered with you, and I think a lot of other people have, how do you think your career would have differed if you never got that ipl million dollar contract in twenty thirteen.
Yeah, that's that's an interesting question because, yeah, I have no idea because I think I only played two or three games during that tournament as well. And yeah, that was hard. As much as people think, oh, that's that's the most amazing thing in the world, it was actually quite hard because people are sort of getting into you for being this million dollar player, but you're not playing, you're not sort of showing your worth, you're not doing anything.
You're sitting on the bench, and you get back and people are still talking about it, and it's it's like, well, I didn't I didn't bid for myself, Like that's it's not the way it happened.
And do you think that changed the course of your career in the way you were perceived.
I think people certainly thought I was a T twenty specialist from then on. I think if I hadn't have got that contracting. Don't get me wrong, I'm very thankful for that contractor, but I think my career could have taken a different path as far as the other formats. Certainly, Yeah, it certainly did put a bit more of a light
on let's play this guy. So it probably more as a specialist T twenty and the position I was playing the order for a lot of teams, as well as a pinch hitter or game changer or X factor or whatever words you want to use. It was no longer batsman. It was I will use this guy to change the momentum of the game. And it probably did have it to have its effect after that, and.
You sort of referred to it throughout this. But Moses Enriquez is also going to be on this podcast, and he speaks a little bit about the way to of potential and how much that weighs on a person's shoulders when you're identified at quite a young age, how much does it weighed on your shoulders throughout your career?
Yeah, I probably think back to one of my first games for Victoria and I remember being in the field and looking around and every other one of the players on the field had played for Australia and I was playing like one of my first games, and I still remember. So that was what I had to, I suppose deal with in the first few years of playing Victoria. They're all superstars, they'd all played higher on as, they're all guns, and I just felt so out of my depth and
like just not ready for that whatsoever. And I think I played I got one fifty before I got picked for I got picked for the Shield team, so I got the fastest fifty for Victoria and then played Shield Crecket straight after I got one hundred second game. And then I think it was about four or five months later I was playing for Australia. So the year later, I got picked for Australia and I was like, how
does this happen? I reckon, I've played a dozen one day games for Victoria and a lot of them with a lot of success, and when I got picked up, I was so shocked. I was so surprised and I just couldn't understand, like I was picked so far ahead of my time, and it was just the position they wanted me to play. And even though I did okay during that first tour in Dubai, and I just remember watching the footage and I was so raw or I was just I had no idea what I was doing.
I was just I was just playing like I was playing in the backyard and not really realizing that this is You're playing for Australia, like this is this is the being, this is all you want to do with your whole career, And it just happened so fast and it certainly caught me off guard.
How will you play the rest of your career? Will you play it differently? Have you learned something from from particularly the last twelve months.
I think I'll play my career the way I know I get enjoyment out of it. And I think that's that goes through training, that goes through the learning experiences I've I've probably learned over the last three or four months the conversations I have with people, making sure I keep that constant chat up and I'm always at my best when I'm chatting to people, keeping bubbly. I've always been known to be the energy in the field or whatever that is, and it doesn't change on them off
the field. Like I'm at my best when I'm having fun and talking to everyone off the field and I'm talking to other people, I'm seeing how they're going, and it's as simple as just having a chat with people. And I think the more I do that, the more
success I'll probably have in the future. And it's probably been something I've been wary of in the past of like staying comfortable and staying within your flags or whatever it is, and I think it's just getting outside of that comfort zone and yeah, just having that first hard conversation and then getting an other way and then I don't start any friendship.
With people being a how have you want to call it? Made of yours or whatever? Getting to know you over the years. It's a roller cos Yeah, it's a good point. But one of my favorite moments of my career is still and will always be after the twenty fifteen World Cup Final on the MCG and you run up to me and give me the biggest hug just before we do an interview, And I loved that moment because that's the thing about you. You take us through this roller coaster.
But you are.
You are when you're at your best, really present and the moments all matter. So you've been entertaining to watch and I look forward to watching the next chapter. And well done on how brave you have been and you also congrats on the engagement.
Thanks very much, Jus soon time.
If you enjoyed this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, you might also want to check out episode two featuring former Test bowler Peter Siddle. Thanks for listening. Another episode will drop on Wednesday. Follow on Instagram at ordinarily Underscore Speaking. And if you like the train back on this podcast, it's Woody Pitney's love Me like you want to be loved. Check him out from Nabada. Tell me that you want to just let me that you are.
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