Ordinarily Speaking.
I bought into the stereotypes of what a drug addict was like, but then I became one. Takes time.
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Ordinarily Speaking. Dane Beams is a former Aussie rule star who won a premiership with Collingwood and captained Brisbane. In twenty eighteen, Dane's dad died after a battle with cancer. It sent Dane down a painful and dangerous path. His mental health deteriorated, culminating in drug and gambling addictions that almost cost him his marriage and even his life. For the first time, Dane reveals the extent of those addictions and the person
he turned into. We also from his wife, Kelly, who has stood by him. She offers an honest account of just how challenging it is to support an addict. I hope this episode is helpful and insightful, but please know the discussion is not designed to be medical or professional advice, rather the lived experience of two people who have a story to share. If this chat is triggering for you, please know there is help out there. Beyond blue dot org, dot AU or Lifeline one three double one one four
are just a couple of places you can go. Dane knows he's hurt a lot of people along the way, but he hopes he can also help a few too. We caught up in Dana Kelly's home in Melbourne. All beansy, thanks so much for spending some time with me. I'll flag with everyone listening that we're in your new house and there are kids running around all over the place, so if you hear screams, don't worry. Everyone is okay.
We could get interrupted a few times.
The best podcasts are always interrupted by a few kids. You and I first did an in depth interview back in twenty eighteen back in Brisbane, and you were very much in the midst of grieving your dad at the time, and we're very open on some mental health issues. You've been through a lot since then as well. I want to start by asking you, how are you doing now.
It's an interesting question because life's always full of ups and downs, but right at that, in this specific moment of time, I'm doing really, really well. I don't think too far ahead, and I also try not to think too far back. Always try and remember, and I learned from my mistakes, but I try and just live in the now. If I can just worry about what's going on in this particular time. I feel like I don't get any sort of anxiety thinking about the future or
any guilt thinking about the past. Like it's just, you know, it's it's just a simple way to live, and I find that keeps me relatively grounded and happy.
So is it very much still a day to day proposition for you and how you cope with everything?
Yeah, I guess not so much the you know, the addiction side of things. I feel like i'm you know, well and truly on top of that. And there's you know, days, weeks, months where I go without thinking gambling or drugs. Like I feel like that's you know, well and truly in the past, it's just sort of you know, staying staying in the moment, like just enjoying my kids and my wife.
My daughter's going to go to school next year, like you know, I feel like the first sort of two years in her life in particular, you know, I was relatively emotionless.
So I am you know, since being you know, off.
Substance, it's you actually feel emotion and like so it's it's just good to you feel that, you know that love and joy for your kids, like, and it's something that for her first two years of her life anyway, my son was born later on, you know, I feel like, you know, I didn't have that.
That's a hard thing to admit in retrospect, I imagine, like, do you have a bit of guilt over that?
Yeah?
Yeah, but it also I try not to think of it that way. I try and just think of, you know, how good it is to actually feel that love for her now. And it's good. It's a bloody good feeling, and it's it's something you don't really actually realize you're you're numbing at the time when you're when you're doing the things that you're doing, like you don't actually think about the fact that you're numbing any emotions. Like obviously I was taking a lot of those drugs to just you know, not have.
To deal with what I needed to deal.
With the sad emotions.
I guess, Yeah, you don't really realize that it's actually compressing a lot of your just your your emotions day to day.
All your positive stuff.
Yeah.
So well, I can't tell you how good it feels to be able to just get out of bed without any guilt of a life you know, and I live a real simple life, like literally, I just try not to lie.
That's literally like my number one rule.
And that's bloody yard for a lot of people, but I feel like, yeah, it's just what got me in a lot of trouble.
So it's just just try and stay away from it.
So how do you describe yourself as far as addiction goes? Now?
I would say that, you know, I'm a recovering addict that loves helping other people. Addiction is something that I knew nothing about until experiencing it myself. I was I was one of those people that would drive down you know, Victoria Street and look at all the heroin addicts and judge them. And you don't ever know what someone's past
is or what they're going through at the time. It's a really difficult thing to break, like and you know, fortunately I was lucky to have access to some really good professionals and that's sort of a benefit of you know, the career that I was in at the time.
But there's a lot of people that don't get.
That help, and you know, they'll essentially live with this for the rest of my life or die from it. So it's a real challenging thing. Particularly, I went through two different addictions. You know, I had the gambling and then I had the drugs. And I got to say that the drugs was only a relatively short period of time, like two years, compared to you know, I gambled really from when I was sixteen years old, But the drugs was just ten times harder to get off than the
gambling was. And it's just that physical addiction, Like I feel like gambling is more of an emotional sort of attachment. Yes, you still get cravings and you know, you still get the urges to do it, but you don't get the physical withdrawals that you do when you're trying to get off drugs.
And that's ultimately lie A lot.
Of people will just keep taking them because the feelings you get when you're not taking them are just that strong that you just you just got to take them, like you just can't go through that. You know, we're going through your physical withdrawal stage of a detox. Is you know that first seventy two hours is the most painful.
Tell me about that.
I actually remember it was one stage where you know, I was I was still taking the drugs and I'm going to get a little bit medical here, like talking about the drugs.
But I never thought you would be.
I was still so I was still taking the drugs, and I said that I think I said to Kelly. This was once of many times I said no, I'm not going to I'm going to stop taking them.
I'm just going to get off from now.
And I actually said, Kelly, there was a drug that I had. It was called nel trexone, and it's a drug that basically blocks any feeling you get from taking opioids. And I said to her, I said, I want you to start administering me this every day. But what actually happened was it actually, if you still have opioids in your system and you take that drug, it actually brings on like physical withdraw real hard and instantly. And this
was something I had no idea about. So I'd taken the drugs in the night before and I said to Kelly, I said, I want you to start giving me these blockers the next day.
So she did and she gave it to me.
But we had no idea that it was going to look like literally bring on withdrawal straight away.
And God, that.
Was painful, Like I remember, like within I think I was in bed and she had just left and she gave it to me, and then like literally within thirty minutes, I just started feeling like real bad, just getting real fidgety and then sweating.
Yeah, a lot of vomit. Like it's it's pretty intense.
I'd been through it once before, but this time was like much worse because it was brought on really fast.
So he took I took myself off to the emergency.
Actually, someone had leaked it to the media as well, so the media actually got a hold of the fact that I was in the emergency section of the hospital. Yeah, basically they were able to get it under control with you know, some other drugs that helped sort of ease the intense physical withdrawals, and then I was transferred from there. I was transferred over to another rehab where I stayed
for like I think seven or eight days. Like once you're in like rehab facilities, they're able to assist you with medications and stuff, so they sort of so it's not as intense that that's.
First seventy two hours.
So but I guess to answer your question, physical withdrawal is.
It's hell, it's not.
And that's that's literally why people continue to take the drugs because their brains, like you know, obviously the chemistry and the pathways and their brain have now changed, and they need that drug to function day to day because literally if they don't have it, their brains telling them that they're going to die. So they continue to take it. And it's not even about the feeling. It's about just functioning, Like you can't function without it. So for me, that
was exactly the same. Like at the start, I like the way it made me feel, like, you know, it numbed a lot of the pain and a lot of the grief that I was going through, and I liked that feeling. But in the end, like it was literally just about it became like, you know, I have any depressants now, so it's the first thing that I take in the morning.
It was literally just like that.
It became like that, it was like part of my routine that I'd take these drugs. You still I could function. It wasn't even about the feeling that it gave me, because that sort of wears off over time and then your tolerance.
Just builds up.
So when you're when you say drugs, what were you taking.
Really anything that was there's sort of downers, which are your benzo diazepines, which you're like you're sleeping tablets the class of drugs. And then you've got your opioids, which are you're like your pain relief medications, like you know, really strong pain relief.
Were you in any physical from footy or anything, or is this just you're abusing those I.
Was abusing them.
Yeah, there's you know, look, I'd had a fair few surgeries in the last four years of my career. I think I had seven rounds of surgery in the last sort of four years that I played, So obviously, you know, I'd had access to them, and I knew the feeling that they gave me, so but no, I would literally just abuse them.
So these were just leftovers from those surgeries essentially. Or how did you actually access.
Oh, I could tell you some of the ways that I accessed them. You know, look, I reckon, I've been to probably thirty or forty different gps around Melbourne. There was actually stages where this is you know, how badly
you actually need these things? I was actually I would actually google There was one instance and I won't name this doctor or or the clinic that it was at, because look, I abused him and I took advantage of him, but I'd found his profile, like he had a profile on their GP page and he had that he was a Collingwood supporter. So literally I rang this doctor's clinic. It was over the other side of town. There was no one even near me, and I don't know how.
I basically just bullshitted and shit talked my way to seeing him. And then basically, yeah, you just find ways. You just find ways to get this stuff.
But you use your profile essentially.
Yeah, yeah, I would use you know, you manipulate people.
That's what you do.
You become a full time manipulator, liar. You just do whatever you need to do to get what you need. And that's look, that's the that's the ship thing about addicts. Like a lot of the time addicts will you know, steal like I never stole. That was one thing I
never did, Like, I never stole from anyone. I certainly borrowed, you know, particularly with the gambling, Like I borrowed money, but that was you know, people, I think people knew what I was doing, but you know, I never actually took anything without asking for it or I know there was rumors at one stage that you know, I was stealing other players credit cards and stuff like that, and that never happened. So you know, I never stole or did anything like that, but I certainly lied to a
lot of people. That's the sort of thing that it does to like, it just turns you into this shit person and a completely different person to who you are, and that's like, you know, you lose a lot of friends over that, and you also gain people in your life as well that you don't think, you know, we're maybe that you were that close with. So certain people step up and then certain people fall off. But I
guess that's just the evolution of it. And you certainly don't hold anything over people for that because at the end of the day, you've got to take responsibility for actions. And I made those choices and I got myself into that mess. So it is what it is, and I guess you just have to move on with life.
How much were you taking at the worst at the peak of the addiction.
God, I think the most I ever you know, to give you a bit of I guess contexts.
I don't know. Have you ever had surgery.
I've had surgery, Yeah, I haven't.
Have you ever had the oxycote and the end don't?
No, I don't actually think I know. I had a morphine shot once heading into a appendicitis, and it turned me paranoid. The first one I went real paranoid, real quick, and the second one knocked me out. But I realized there's probably a reason why I've never been a drug taker. It doesn't agree with me. There's something in my brain that tells me that.
Well, most people, most people have different reactions to drugs, And like I tell people now like open how much I took, and they're like, holy shit, you know one of them and it just puts me to sleep. But like the end Dome and the opioids, they never put me to sleep. Actually made me sort of more like I had a numbing feeling, but it never made me drowsy or anything like that. The most I overtook were talking in milligrams, So basically, one End Dome tablet is
five milligrams of oxycodone. The most I ever took, I think was about one hundred and twenty milligrams, So to give you a context, that's twenty four tablets in one day.
In one hit.
Yeah, in one hit, so you get a pack. So when you get out of surgery, you have you get a pack of twenty. So I would have that pack and four more.
I'm showing my navity there. Are you lucky to be alive taking that amount?
Well, you don't, you don't certainly don't take that amount straight away, like you know, I started, I think at two, so two tablets, and this.
Is how bad it can get real us.
This drug is really really potent, and that's it's an epidemic over in the States.
Well, I was going to bring that up because there are so many documentaries about this and the way that it wasn't They don't have the same laws here over there as we do here. It is actually, despite the stories that you've just told, it is actually pretty good here from a medical point of view. When you see those stories from the States, because a lot of them end up turning to heroin and things like that. Did that get that bad for you?
No? I don't think I would have, and I can't ever say I guess that I wouldn't have. But the thought I certainly, the thought of putting a needle inside me was never something that I always thought, like even at my worst, like when I was highly addicted, I never contemplated that, and the thought of that made me like want to just like but I wanted to get off them, Like so no, I don't. I don't think I would have ever gotten that bad. But look, you never know, like two more years of taking that and
building up a tolerance. I was already out of high tolerance. But you know, I've heard stories of people taking well over two hundred milligrams. So you just build a tolerance. So you know, like I said, I started taking two tablets and within two years, I was taking twenty four of them. You know, you just take more. It's like you go to the gym. You started eighty kilos bench PRIs. You know, you keep going to the gym, you aout
to lift more. Sort of same sort of concept, you know, you basically the more you do it, the more you can take. And everyone has that reaction when I tell them, they're like they nearly fall over, Like, but like, it's a lot. There's no doubting that it's a lot of drugs. But I understand how I got to that point.
Did anyone else know that you? Like, did was kel aware of how much you were taking.
I don't know.
I don't think she was aware of how much I was taking. But she's been with me, We've been together twelve years now. She knew every time that I was on them, because you lose color in your face, like you know, there's certain characteristics, and I'm sure she'd be able to answer this more than I can. But she just knew, like she would always know. And in the end, she got to the point where she would, you know, she just worried about the kids. She'd like, literally, just
I'll just continue lying. She just had two kids to look after him. She got to the point where she stopped trying to control me, like she just let me do it basically. That obviously had its consequences after I got cleaned and started to rebuild my life again. But yeah, at that point in time, I think she'd just had enough.
How bad did things get? What were some of the things that you did whilst high? Do you say high when it's painkillers terminal?
I mean you are you are high intoxicated? Like I don't know you Like for me, it was just about living. Like I would never say that I'm getting high today or anything like that. It was just like I said, it just became part of my routine.
You know. The hardest thing for me was I.
Wanted together, Like I just hated what I was doing, Like I genuinely hated it, and it caused me so much guilt ultimately, like you know, like I tried to harm myself. You know, I crashed myself in, crushed my car into a pole deliberately, and.
It was just because I had I had enough.
I didn't want to do what I was doing anymore, Like I couldn't keep doing it, but I couldn't stop. Like so it's like that conflicting you know, like my brain Like inside me, I was like, this is not who I am, this is not the person I want to be. But at the same time, it's like I just can't stop doing this, like I can't, Like it was just like it was part of me, and I was like I'd just never seen any sort of life without it. Whilst you're in the grips of it, you
can't see a life without it. That's the beauty about being able to help people now is because you actually know what they're feeling. Like I literally can put myself in their shoes and literally I know what they're thinking, but I also now know that it's possible, like I'm living proof.
Of it, And that's why you speak up, isn't it.
Yeah, that's the only reason why I do. I know for myself. I know myself, like being able.
To relate to lived experience.
Yeah, Like being able to talk to someone who'd actually been through it was like so much better than talking to it. And this is no disrespect to psychologists and psychiatrists because they've certainly helped me, but in another way. But just being able to talk about your problems, like the actual feelings that you're having, like with someone else that's been through it or is going through it, is just like it's comforting and it does help.
So less judgment I imagine as well, even if they're not judging you, just within your own mind.
Yeah, it's almost like you can do it together.
Like I don't know, it's just it's like some of the people that I met in rehab, you know, I still stay in contact with it, like a few of them now, and it's just like you feel like you have some like this sort of bond with them, like and it's like you feel like you're obliged to make sure that they're still doing well and like they're still on top of things and community.
Yeah, tell me about the night you tried to drive to Sydney.
That was my first rehab, so I've been to rehab three times. The first time I went was I think halfway through the first year. I got back to Collingwood and I think the club at the stage announced that I was having a couple of weeks off to deal with mental health issues, which essentially I was the day that I announced that. The next day I was actually flying out to Sydney with Jeff Walsh at the time, he was the footy manager. And yeah, I couldn't sleep
that night. I think Kelly and I had some had an argument. I was just like, you know, I felt like really wide, I couldn't get asleep. Obviously had plenty of volume and shit like that like that. You know that stuff used to be everywhere. So I think it was around four am, might have been a little bit earlier. I decided that I was going to drive to Sydney instead of getting a plane the next day, and at that stage, I think I'd had ten vallium over the
course of the night. So I jumped in my car drove to Sydney, I think two hours in.
Think Kell had tried to stop me.
Yeah, Kelly had tried to stop me, but there was no stuff for me, to be honest, like, yeah, I was getting through that front.
Door, no matter.
And yeah, I remember basically falling asleep. Well I don't remember it because I fell asleep, but I remember fishing down the highway. Yeah, I was driving along. I think I had cruised at one hundred and ten and yeah, just I always thought to myself, you know, how do people just fall asleep like in a second, like and it happened to him, and then I understand and now how.
People fall asleep at the wheel.
But I literally just remember I hit the barrier and then yeah, fishy down the highway literally one hundred and ten kilometers an hour. So like really lucky to be alive, to be honest.
And that you didn't hit someone else.
Well, yeah, if it had been at a different time, you know, like because it was so early in the morning, there was not a lot of cars on the road, but yeah, you're right, if it had been a busier time, like, yeah, it could have easily caused a lot of carnage.
But again that just you don't think straight, like you just you live in another world.
How do you when you think back to that, how do you feel about that and the decisions you were making, you know, knowing you had a wife and kids at home and things like that.
Oh it's terrible.
But again, like you don't you just don't think about and this is what these things do to you. You don't think about anyone else other than yourself. Literally just all about you and what you want to do and how you're going to get your next fixed. Like it doesn't you know, everything else is just you know, you tell you end up telling yourself like that you're doing. You know, you've been the best dad, You've been the
best husband that you can be. And look, maybe you are in the circumstances, but you certainly like I certainly wasn't being the best dad and the best husband like I knew.
I could be.
But like when you're full of drugs that stop you from feeling any sort of emotion, Like it's not that you don't care, it's just like those feelings just don't come into your mind, like in hindsight and thinking about it now, yeah, that's literally the way I should have been thinking, But yeah, you just literally become the most selfish, self centered person that steps foot on the earth. Like it's just that's just what sort of happens, and that's
why it's such a shit thing. And you know a lot of people might have their perceptions of me, different.
Thoughts about me, but.
Yeah, you're literally not the person that And that's the thing. Because people had known me from when I was first at Collingwood to when I came back. It was like, you know, people were seeing a different person, and I was like I was someone.
That was really just lost, like no idea what I was doing.
And it's unfortunate because some of those people will never see it like that. They'll just hold on to that sort of stuff and won't really want to understand it. And that's okay, that's their prerogative, but you know, you do, you just become someone that you're not like, and it turns you into a different person.
Yours you're listening to. Ordinarily, speaking with Dame Beams, you mentioned it before the day that you got in your car and you wanted to hurt yourself. Tell me about the mental space that you were in at that time.
It was not something I planned and I didn't, Like I must say that I didn't want to kill myself, but I just had enough of everything I was doing. And it was literally a split decision, like I was literally I was driving around meaninglessly, like I had no idea, Like it happened in Donvale. I don't think I've ever been to don Val in my life. Literally, I have no reason to be in Donvale. So I don't even know why I was in don Val. I know i'd been to I'd been to a doctor the day before.
I'm pretty sure the night and Kelly will probably be out to into this better than I can, but I'm pretty sure I slept at my factory that night before, and then the next day is basically you know, when it happened, Like I just was d Like I said, I was just driving around without any reason, like I
was just literally driving. And I remember I've seen I seen a poll like at the corner of my eye, and I literally I drove past it, and then I turned around, I drove a little bit further past the poll, and I did a U turn and came back and then did another U turn and then just drove straight into it. And I didn't do it like I could have droven driven a lot faster into it, so I only hit it, I think at sixty k but sixty k is still enough to give you a bit of
a shock. I just remember the airbags just smacking me in the face. And yeah, there was people that came obviously, Like I think it was around three o'clock in the afternoon, so I think school had just finished as well, So it must have been close to a school, because I know there was a fair bit of you know, fair
few people that came to my aid. And then from there, I remember being taken to hospital just for like sort of a general check up, where I spent the night, and then the next day that was when I went to rehab for the third time. And yeah, that was the last time I ever went to rehab. And it was also the last time I ever took drug so that was. Yeah, the day I crashed my car was literally the day, like the day I'd stopped taking drugs.
Do you remember the first time you saw cal were your kids? After that?
I remember the first time I was seeing Kelly, Yeah, because I was in the I was in the hospital, and yeah, she just came in and she was understandably quite upset, and she just I remember, I remember the words, she said, what are you doing? And she was crying, and yeah, I couldn't tell you what I was doing. I don't know what I was doing, but yeah, I know that i'd had enough of like everything that I was doing. I just didn't know how to get the
help that I needed. You know, there's been lots of people trying, and you helped me and do different things and try different things and see different specialists.
But none of them seemed to work.
So I just felt like things started to become different, like I had a different treatment plan. Not that they weren't taking it seriously, but I just felt like it became like, hey, this is really serious now. And I think that, yeah, they started started putting some different steps in place, and you know, I still see an addiction specialist now, so I still see that particular person that I met that time in READI had where I just
after I'd crashed the car. The other thing I think that happened was I decided in my own head that I was never going to go back to football. I genuinely think that like seriously helped me be able to move forward as well, and it's not that foot he was holding me back. But I think I just felt so much judgment in a football environment. I don't feel like anyone really wanted to understand what I was going through. And I don't feel like really and even really wanted.
To help either. And that's sad.
Because, like I feel like I gave a lot to that club, and there was some you know, there was some players there that I thought I had really good friendships with, and it was like they didn't really want to know me or understand what I was going through, and this was a time where I needed someone like that.
I needed a friend.
But you know, like I said, I don't hold grudges over people. I just struggle to understand sometimes how you know, other people can act certain ways, you know that I know there was a stage there where that, you know, some of the players that were closer to me were told not to talk to me, which I just found baffling, Like I just don't know how that makes any sense.
Like I if the shooter were on the other foot and one.
Of those particular players were in trouble or dealing with some really serious stuff. And then someone came to me and said that you can't talk to them. I'd tell them to go and get stuff like because that's my friend and I'm not going to leave them behind. So yeah, I just there's some things that I don't understand. But I still haven't really spoken to those people.
But that's all right, Devil's Advocate. It is part of it, though, that when you're in the midst of something you don't necessarily know, like you've spoken about, right, that you didn't know the hurt that you were doing to Kel or the other people. Is it that you don't necessarily recollect those times as well and how they lived through that when you weren't present.
Yeah, yeah, And I don't like not trying to justify it. No, No, I don't disregard that, Like I certainly understand that, you know, they would have felt an element of hurt as well, because I liked all of them, and that's I like to everyone. But what I wanted, and this is the
thing I've never got a chance to do. I feel like I'd be able to accept it a lot more if I just got the chance to be able to be able to speak to them and just try and articulate what I was actually sort of going through and try and explain to them what addiction does to you and how you actually start to think. You know, maybe that would just help them understand why I made some of the decisions that I made or why I did
what I did. But that's the thing that hurt. I never got a chance to do that, Like it was just like you know, white hands that I don't want to really even I don't really even.
Want to know.
And again, like that's that's their choice, but you know, I just think there's other ways to sort of particularly when you've valued those friendships, like they weren't just you know, friendships that i'd made over two years, like you know, these were you know, long long term friends, and just didn't want to hear I guess my side of the story, and or not even the story, but just what I was going through, because you know, I don't downplay what I was going through at all.
It was you know, it was very very serious, Like.
It wasn't something that you know, it just happened overnight where I woke up and I didn't feel well, Like you know, this is a very complex and serious situation, and I just feel like that, you know, I was never really given the chance to be able to just share what I was actually going through and vice versa.
They you know, they.
Could have exactly told me what they were feeling as well, Like you know, there was just no dialogue. Like it was just sort of disappointing. And it's the old cliche, like you know, you find out who your true friends are, and it's like it's so true, like you just do like people, like I said, people that I didn't think were really close, and now some of my closest friends. So it's it's interesting.
I hope that you find some peace with some of those friendships because I know I know how much a few of them mean to you, and I hope that time is a great healer and maybe that those things can get better. You speak about the two addictions, the drugs and the gambling. How bad was the gambling?
Ok, in terms of figures, Like I couldn't give you an exact figure, but I think it would have been, if not close, it would have been over a million dollars that I've lost, so a lot of money, and that that was probably the hardest thing.
To swallow.
I reckon like because this like now having kids, you know, I could have set them up, you know, big time, with particularly some of the money that I was earning, you know, when I particularly when I went to Brisbane. You know, I was earning some really good money and essentially I just pissed it up against the wall.
You know.
I was lucky that I had some assets as well, so I didn't you know, completely blowed a lot, but it didn't give me really any ability to be able to save, you know, to put it this way, like I went to Brisbane, I'm just under eight hundred grand a year and really don't have much to show for it. Yeah, like I said, I was lucky that I had you know, I already had a house in Melbourne. But yeah, I certainly could have set myself up a lot better than what I did. But yeah, I mean, these things happen
and you just got to learn from them. Like I said, I try not to get caught up and dwell on it too much, like because it just it does.
It just puts you in a negative frame of mind and it makes you feel shit.
It's just it's important, though, not to sweep it under the carpet. Like you do have to face it and you acknowledge the fact that you did stuff up, and you did lose a lot of money, but I think, I think that I'm much better placed for that now. I know it's weird saying that, but I think, you know, the way I basically manage money now is completely different
the way I did manage my money. So and look, it's not all doom and gloom like, you know, like I'm running a pretty successful business now and you know, think I've been able to rebuild a lot of things.
And are you in debt to anyone now? No?
No, no.
So I was only in debt to a couple of people when I was at my worst, and that was wiped pretty quickly. That wasn't something that I didn't get into too much trouble with. Like the debts that I had weren't you know, catastrophic, like I could pay them back, So I was. I guess I was lucky in that regard, Like I didn't have to sell my house or do anything like that to you know, cover my gambling debts. Basically just everything that I had i'd spent. So yeah,
I haven't. I haven't been in debt to anyone now for a good good part of two years.
So yeah, been able to you know from that.
We sold our place in Q but we bought a bigger family house and it's beautiful.
We're sitting in it right now, nice high ceilings, trees all around.
Yeah, it was just it was also important, I think, to get away from that house that had a lot of shit memories as well, Like there's a real thing guilt by association.
Every time I was in that house, I felt like.
It had a lot of bad sort of memories, even like little things like the couch, Like sitting on that couch where I always used to gamble, the remote that you use, like just you know.
A lot of habits that start to form.
And I actually share this a lot with a lot of hopeful recovering gamble addicts.
Now it will help me for a bit.
I felt getting rid of a lot of the things that you know, were associated with gambling. Like we're just getting new things. Yeah, like even a phone, like getting a new phone, like it's just amazing the psyche, Like you think with a new phone, it's like, okay, I don't have to gamble on this phone. The same thing with the couch, Like we got a new couch because you know, sitting on the couch flicking the TV on.
Gambling was like sort of what I did, so like just being able to change I feel those things was funnily enough, like it actually helped. So like I say to people and if you can afford it, like yeah, yeah, maybe have a crack at doing something like that. Yeah, there's certainly other alternatives, but it was just one thing that helped me.
What do you think it was with the gambling, because I find it fascinating and I think it's it's a massive issue, and particularly with young men, particularly in sport. I'm super concerned about, you know, friends and where that's going. But what was it for you?
Do you think I think it was a social Well it's sort of funny because when I first started gambling, it was about the social aspect, Like I loved going to the races and putting a suit on and just being amongst like that sort of atmosphere and.
That I've seen you there. We had good fun together.
It's just a.
Good time, like that time of year, like spring, like you wake up and it just you know, the air smells good, like it's just like I don't know, there's something about that time of year that I used to love, Like just.
Off season as well let your hair down.
Yeah, And I think, like, really, up until I went to Brisbane, I don't think I never felt like I had an issue, like I deep down, Like I think most people will know when they're developing an issue or if they think they've got an issue within themselves, and I don't feel like I.
Ever had that before I left to go to Brisbane.
So I don't know, maybe it was it's hard to pinpoint, but I feel like once I got to Brisbane and I was earning more money, it was almost like I had a lot of money and I was like I didn't know what to do with it. And you know, I obviously gambled before, like you know, I got to Brisbane, so it was like I just started gambling more and then obviously you lose more, and then it started to just become a thing that was ingrained in me, Like.
It was like goal was obsessed with.
So it's just hard to explain, Like it wasn't even about winning, like it just became part of part of me and what I did, and it kept me like it was almost like my hobby. Like you know, people go out and their spare time and play golf it was like I gambled, like it was weird, Like it soon became not a social thing, like it actually became something that I like to do by myself away from people. And actually I started to isolate myself doing it.
Because you were trying to cover it up from people.
Yeah, I think once it got bad, definitely.
What sort of bets were you putting on?
How hard this is?
Like, see, I never used to bet, Like a lot of gambling addicts that I that I try and help. Now they gamble like literally on everything, like so it's sport, it's bad minton, like it's just yeah, whatever they can gamble on, they will gamble on. Where it was a bit different for me, like I only have a gamble on horse racing, like I was. I never used to bet on sport. I didn't get into anything like that. So I don't know what it was about the horses,
Like I just loved watching them race. It's interesting now even now, like I'll see, you know, the horse racing will come on and I find myself actually interested in it, But I don't feel the urge to gamble at all now. So it's I kind of feel like I've always just liked horse racing, and then you know, the gambling was just sort of always associated with horse racing, so I
engaged in it. And then, yeah, before I knew it, like it got bad when Dad died because I started using it as a bit of a you know, like I was by myself. I literally couldn't give a shit about anything at that stage because you know, you know, I was feeling really sorry for myself and there was a lot of grief and you know, money, I didn't care, Like I didn't think about it, Like I just used to gamble, just bet and didn't ever worry about it or didn't care if I lost, didn't care if I won.
And then it just became a real big issue, like it just manifested itself and it just became out of control. Yeah, it was like it was just something that was now ingrained in me, and like it was the thing that I did every day. I woke up, you know, I opened it, like, rolled over, checked my phone, had a look at what was racing today, and yeah, I'd never used to do form or anything.
I'd just sit there and I'm just some races. I'd pick out four.
Or five horses and I'd outlay a thousand bucks over you know, five different horses, Like there was no method or anything.
It was just stupid, really, it was.
You know, I used to like chasing a rough y as well, Like I used to love chasing like you know, something at big odds and like having two or three hundred bucks on it, like you know, I always I always now say to people, I said, nothing your wind is going to ever change your life, like unless you win a million two million dollars like which you're not going to do, like because you obviously have to outlay
a lot to even win that. It's nothing to do now is going to change your life, Like it's literally not. But if you stop gambling, it will change life, like you will live a better life. So it's like a simple way to look at it, like they always, like I think they think about it and go, you're right, like.
You know, actually makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, like if you nothing, you do like having your ten bucks on you know, because there's different gamblers out there, like, and it's all in perspective to what people earn. So like you know, I was earning a lot of money, so I was able to bet more, but some people don't earn as much, but they're spending their whole paycheck on it.
And it's just.
Like having your ten dollars bet on something that's going to pay you thirty dollars. Like that's not going to change your life, Like nothing that you do now is going to change your life.
But literally, if.
You stop doing this, I guarantee you change your life, Like you will live a better life for it. It'll improve everything, It'll prove your own happiness, it'll improve your relationships. Like it just yeah, it's just a toxic thing. And unfortunately, like you sort of touched on briefly, like it's a big issue in footy, Like I was around and exposed to a lot of particularly the younger guys, that I
could just see that they're in trouble. I don't think the AFL or clubs do anywhere near enough for it. They I mean, they try and educate people, but there's been now a few people that have had gambling issues. How many clubs have I haven't had a club bring me and asked me to come and talk to their younger players about the potential dangers and you know what,
I what I went through. I haven't had the AFL approached me to do it, like, why wouldn't you engage in some of you know, David Schwartz has been the most publicized XAFL footballer that's been through.
Some gambling issues.
I don't know how many times he's been out to football clubs and spoken to players about, you know, how easily you can lose everything, Like, I just think there's a there's a real opportunity there for ex AFL players to come and talk to people because they've done it. I've done it like, I've literally been through it like and I can give some of those kids some real advice. I do it for nothing I don't need. It's not even about the money. It's literally just about helping people
not make the same mistakes that I did. Because you can.
Really like football.
They're in a really privileged situation. You earn money, you can really set yourself up if you do it smartly. And there's there's players out there that have done it and that's great, but there's a lot out there that just piss it up against the wall, and you know, I think there's more that can be done so that doesn't happen.
Did you have a day or a loss where you went a ship. I've just lost a lot of money there. Like, did you have a day where it's smashing the face that you were doing some damage?
Oh? Yeah, there was, you know there was days.
You know, the race is usually finish around five or six, but I sometimes yeah, going even into the trots and stuff like that, that that went on at night. But yeah, there was there were some days where I just would go and have a shower and just just cry in the shower, like I just Yeah, there was some days where you lose a lot of money. I think the most I ever lost in a day was about fifty zer. So yeah, you can really start getting in a big hole.
But the thing that was, I guess shit for me was it was like I never never really like ran out of money, like so I could always do it the next day, like and it just kept going and going and going to the point where like you do run out of money then you know, that's basically when I stopped.
It was like I just couldn't keep.
You know, once you start borrowing money from other people, that's when like you can start to get yourself into some real trouble.
How does that feel within yourself when you have to go and ask made, I don't know who who you are borrowing money from? How does that feels?
It's the worst hobnestly, it still makes me feel shit.
Now.
It's like you've been poisoned and you just can't stop, like and you'll do anything to keep going.
Were you honest or did you lie to people?
When I lied to people flat out? Yeah?
What sort of laws would you make up?
Just?
You know, there would be times where I'd say that, you know, I wanted to buy Kelly your present, I didn't want it to see you on the bank card or like, you know, you just think of shit like absolutely crap. You just make it up and it's terrible. Yeah, I feel absolutely shit about it. But again it's just like I actually understand why I made those decisions, Like I understand how addiction changes the pathways in your brain, like, and I understand how people start to think.
I suppose at some point you have to forgive yourself if you're ever going to move.
Like you can't, like I can't just keep sitting here and dwelling on the things that I've done. All I can focus on is you know what I'm doing now, and that's building a future for our family. That's literally all you can do. You can't go and change anything, like that's not possible.
You just can't.
Like, so it's about, Okay, how do I learn from that? Like, how do I get better from it? I think I'm a firm believe there's always a positive to come out of any bad situation, and in many ways, Like, and this is going to sound really weird, but I'm sort of like I'm glad that it's happened because I feel
like it's made me a much much better person. Whether or not I would have become the person that I am now without it, I don't know, but I feel like it's definitely I've definitely learned to shitload from the amount of mistakes and the things that I've done, It's made me a much more trustworthy, honest person.
Like because isn't that ironic?
Yeah, it's just so weird because I guess some of the people you know that did forgive me and have stuck by me, it's like now they're sort of like it's like they're reaping the rewards of the person that I am now, Like you know that, Like and like I'd hope that I'm a good person to be around, and I feel like, you know, the relationships that mean
the most to me have not. I wouldn't say like they've benefited because of all of it, because I certainly wish that none of it happened, because I'd obviously put them through a lot of shit, and I've put myself through a lot of ship. But fortunately for me, like I didn't lose my wife, Like.
Are you surprised? I know that sounds like a horrible question.
Yeah, Like no one deserves to be put through that.
No one does, and.
Particularly you know Kelly, who's you know, she's a great person, and she's an awesome mother, and you know she was pretty much won out for most of that first two years of Ruby's life. You know, we went through some challenges, like you know, I'd moved out for a little bit, and you know, we both needed to sort of figure out what we wanted to do moving forward. And you know, it certainly wasn't all roses. There's a lot of trust that was lost, Like that's the biggest thing.
And she'll she'll tell you that.
Because did she know when did she know the extent of your gambling?
Probably when she was started to see the accounts, And it's funny, we haven't really spoken in depth about like any of I guess when she knew and like, yeah, like it's it's not something that we've really ever spoken about. It's just you know, it's like she just she just knew, and she knew she had to step in and just make sure that it was stopped.
Like because she took control, didn't she the finance wasn't everything?
Yeah, she pretty much when I stopped. Yeah, she basically like I basically lived on an allowance really like I had a key card that she'd put money on. I had no access to funds.
I had had zero.
I couldn't.
Yeah, I couldn't get anything.
So there was times there where I'd get it a petrol station to fill up my car on my bank would my car would decline and I'd have to call Kelli, like Kelly, can you out put some money.
I'm like the little kid to give that look.
I put myself in that situation and you have to I say it to yeah, like I say it to people now that reach out. I'm like, you have to hand over control, Like you can't. You cannot have control over.
Any money at the moment, and let go of the ego.
Yeah, yeah, literally just treat it as if like you're a little kid again getting pocket money. But I mean, yeah, it sounds stupid, and it sounds stupid.
It's just it's not humbling nature. It is just I respect it. I think I respect that. I mean, I guess you had to do.
But it's happening because you've put yourself in this situation, like you need to take responsibility for this, and you know it's not forever, Like you know, I have access to money now, it's not forever. It's just the best thing for you right now is to not have any access to money. Don't don't even tempt yourself with it. If you want to go and spend that one hundred dollars that you've got for the week on gambling, go
for it. You're not getting another hundred, So yeah, you have some you have to start really actually thinking about how you're going to live. You've proven you've proven it to yourself, you've proven other people you can't control money, so you need to just remove yourself from it. And I think it's important to also set goals, like even if you just can still see the accounts every now and then we can't access them, just so you can
see money is growing. It's also like positive reinforcement as well, like to see it's almost like that high of seeing, you know, your bank account growing. It's like potentially that high that people get when they gamble, like because you need you need some financial goals and you need a different way of thinking about your finances.
So yeah, it's a good way of putting it. Just you need to see the bank account ticking over and see that you're you know, you are building something that you're physically seeing with your own eyes otherwise.
And like you build trust as well.
That's the biggest thing that you build, Like you start building trust back up, and that takes a lot, Like it's easy to lose, but it takes a long time to rebuild.
It takes some time. You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Dame Beams, keep listening for part two of this episode, when we hear from his wife Kelly, who gives an incredibly honest account of what it's like to live with an addict. It definitely takes its tolling you, like it's
so heavy, like you can't actually explain explain it. You feel like you're being betrayed every single day, every minute, you know, and then it causes a resentment, and you know, all this underlying contempt and stuff that you're left to deal with after