Ordinarily Speaking, there was a perception that I was happy, go lucky and loving my life, when below the surface there was a lot more going on.
Soon time, Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking. My guest today is former AFL player Dale Thomas, known to many as Daisy. Daisy has been one of the most recognizable faces of the game this century. He played in a Premiership at Collingwood in twenty ten before making a high profile move to Carlton in twenty thirteen. Known as a bit of a lad who loves a beer and a laugh,
things started to turn sour and childhood anguish resurfaced. In this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, Daisy reveals just what he has endured throughout his life. It's pretty heavy stuff. If this chat is a trigger for you, please ask for help. Lifeline or Beyond Blue are a couple of places you can go. I hope you enjoyed the chatter. Well, Daisy, thanks for spending some time with me. I really appreciate it. You've started to open up a little bit about your
personal life recently in a public sense. Why have you done that?
Well, firstly, thanks for having me. Look, I don't think it's been by design to necessarily push it out there. I think maybe more so, I've got more comfortable in the person than I am, and that there's things that I've gone through that I don't have to hide from anymore. A lot of the stuff that I dealt with was obviously there for a long period of my time of my life, but I was never really comfortable in talking
about it. So there's been opportunities. You know, I did that Jungle Show and I was able to have some really good conversations in there, and you know, with no intentions of pushing agendas or anything like that, just telling my story. And I think that the fact that it's relatable shows that a lot of people have either gone through or going through similar things.
When you say you weren't ready, was that because you were in a professional environment and you didn't want it to be public or were you not ready within yourself?
Probably a bit of both. I think a lot of the stuff that I dealt with or had to deal with growing up, I didn't deal with, so that was sort of my coping mechanism, which I learned later on in life isn't a coping mechanism at all. So to have that going on and to almost get away with life by suppressing it and hiding from it was you know, that was a way that and a technique that was working.
So I just continued on doing that. It probably wasn't until life hit the skids and you know, I had to dig a little deeper and delve into some of those things that I then became aware of what I'd been running from or hiding from, and then realized that if I actually spoke about these things rather than just hiding from them suppressing them, it made me feel a
lot better about myself. But as I said, the amount of people who then related to it and were like, thank you so much for speaking I've been dealing with this that again. You know, I know that probably sounds a bit selfish, but it made me feel better about my situation as well.
We'll get to where you've ended up and how you got help, but let's go back to the beginning. When you say you had a bit of a tough childhood. Tell me about your childhood.
Well, there was tough in senses at the same time. You know, I wouldn't change it for the world. I lived on a hobby farm, you know, I had mates. We'd go ferreting, we'd kick footies, we do all the things that kids did. It was just at times that once you do get older and you look back and you go, oh, that isn't actually a normal household. You know. I had the world's best mum, which I'm lucky for, but my old man was a drunk. You know, he would be abusive at times. So for that to almost
be in normal, he's slightly weird. But you know, in saying that, as I said about you know, she hit us from that as much as she could and allowed us to have a really great childhood. It's just that some of those things that you probably don't realize what you're taking on at the time then come up in years later. I didn't see my old man from about the age of thirteen until draft day. He then rocked up unannounced on draft day, so I had zero contact.
So that's another thing that was I dealt with it in the best way I could, which was pretend that everything was fine on draft day. But that's a big moment in my life that was sort of overshadowed by him being there and somehow making about himself. So in that sense, childhood was at times difficult. But throughout all of that, I had my Mum who loved me unconditionally
and just did everything for me. I had my sister as well my mates, but I also had footy, and footy was the one thing that no matter what was happening inside the house, I could go out and keep the foot in the paddock. The weekend had come, I'd
look forward to go to school play footy. So footy was definitely the one thing that I used as almost a coping mechanism and just put all my efforts into being the best I could at that for not only myself, but there's almost a way out for Mum and a better laugh for all of us, a safe space, yeah, for sure. And I genuinely love footy, so I'm sure we'll get to it at the end. But for that to almost go full circle at some point is another thing that to conceptualize is really weird.
When you say abusive, what's your earliest memory of that, I just like my sister.
It was Mum, my sister, me and Dad and just him just being drunk, carrying on me, get in the way, getting shoved out of the way, things like that that being a dad now would never do to a child. So but again that's you know, I know it's not right, but in the day of growing up, I'm sure you know, we all have parents who talk about getting a clip over the years or a smack on the barm, so you know, it was obviously more than that, but yeah, it's what it was.
Was he with your mum as well?
Yeah, you know, domestic violence in our house was something that again wasn't normal, but there was definitely there and not until growing up that you realize that that isn't how most families interact.
What are your memories of that and how did you cope as a kid.
See again, most of the memories are somewhat not suppressed, but you can sort of, you know, you think of good memories and everything comes back shiny and really vivid. These things are obviously a bit darker. Yeah, I don't know. I think it just at times I just remember that wanting to get out of the house and I would do that, or you know, the odd time where I'd feel the need to stick up for mum, you know, as a small child, and then get your own come
uppance for that. It's yeah, used to wondering what's this all about? I guess, you know, you always wanted dad who's your hero, and you know, I guess I didn't get that so that sense. But you know, as I said, I'm thankful that I've got a mum who was not only my heroes my mum, but she almosto took the role as dad as well. So I didn't really think that I was taking on a fatherly role or anything
like that. I was just doing what I had to do to you know what I thought, I guess was right at the time, and trying to help mum out.
Do you remember the last time you saw your dad?
No, not vividly. So he passed away when I was about twenty. I think I didn't go to the funeral. Things like that. I and I don't regret that decision. It's just something that I literally grew up thinking I didn't have a father, and if that's what a father is, well I didn't want one.
When he walked Do you remember when he walked out?
And again, not really it was and the memories I do have of that, like not vivid, but almost a sense of relief, and it's, you know, the problem's gone away to some extent when.
You think about it. Now looking back that did you realize how big a thing it was at the time, Because I sit here listening to you, I can't imagine going through that experience.
Again, not really at the time. It's sort of that's what it was. So we made the best of it. You know, as I keep referencing to Mum, the way she almost was able to hide us from us, So what we saw was probably not the extent of what
was actually happening. So for her to do such a good job and me still look back on childhood and say I had a fantastic time for the most part, you know, he's credit to her, because, no doubt, at times it would have been scary for her and having two kids in the house that you're trying to raise, and you know, we all want the best for our kids and we want them to have the best time. So to still be able to do that in trying circumstances is more credit to her than to what was actually going on.
Tell me about your mum.
Mom's the best I look, you know, every time I speak about her, I just think of what she did for me and now what I'm doing for Matilda and trying to understand how actual hard. It was. She had two kids. My sister played elite level netball, so she'd be at the Sports Netball center every weekend. I'd be at more Well playing footy, and there was never one time where Mum wasn't at one of our games. She would.
She had the little Masda bubble car and that thing just punched out kilometers up the freeway and she just made it work. We never went without footy boots, we never went without being able to go to repsides or anything. So and looking back, it was, you know, it would
have been so tough for her to do that. She was pretty much the only income in the house, being a teacher, and again we never went without some incredibly grateful for what she did for me, but in a sense, my footballing career was as much about making her proud of me because of what she sacrificed.
She sounds like a bit of a superhuman.
It's incredible that she can do what she did what she did and now she's able to enjoy footage. She still came along every week of my career. I don't think she missed a game. She even traveled into state towards the end. So she's an amazing person, someone I'm thoroughly thankful and grateful that became my mum and was able to steer me through. And now I guess we can enjoy life.
When you speak about draft days and memories of your mum as well.
Yeah, there is, for sure. I think the enjoyment she had and the pride that I could see in her face when I got read out to pick two, but again to have that overshadowed by the old man rocking up, was it sort of tarnished the day and I knew that she would have been worried about what the old man was doing there and how that was going to play out. Maum only would have wanted the best for me, and then to be drafted in front of every football club and then have a dad that you haven't seen
for ten years rocker. It's just a bizarre thing. So luckily, I think the footy clubs were all aware of it, whether I'd told him throughout the draft process and interviews or Mum had told them, But for them, yeah, I think she would have just been a nervous wreck saying, you know what's going to happen and hopefully this just goes away. Because she knew that I would have been hating what was happening as well.
Did you end up physically seeing him or talking to him?
Yeah, he was jumping in photos and whatnot. It is like, this is my son? How good is this? It's just the most bizarre concept.
Do you know why? What do you think he's motivational?
I'm not sure. To be honest, I don't know. To be honest, I don't really care. I was able to make sure that nothing came of it in terms of no photo's got out. There was no mention of him being there. It was all about me, mum and my sister. Yeah. I I don't know whether he finally thought, you know, which's well done, but I think it was probably more an angle that jump on the coattails sort of set up.
Did you see him again after that? Was there any more contact?
I think he crashed a book launch that we did at Collingwood once, But apart from yeah, like I just if I saw him rock up, I'd get super anxious and just wanted to go away.
How does something like that impact on a.
Person, Well, it probably compounded all my troubles later in life. To be completely honest with you, all the stuff that eventually came up, you know, after injury and form and changing clubs. Probably wasn't even so much to do with that. It was more dealing with these things from childhood. So you know, the anxiety of not knowing about things or if people were being unpredictable. That sort of really triggered me from my childhood. And at the time I didn't
know that. I just thought I was getting super anxious for reasons unbeknown to.
Myself, because he was an alcoholic and would be.
Just someone but you didn't know. You'd come home to you know, you'd had a great day and you'd come home and almost be like, what's going on today? Or you know, what's going on the next ten minutes?
So were there of a good days?
Again, I can't really remember them. I'm sure we would have had some fun along the way, but as I said, it's unpredictable, so even if it is good, you're sort of sitting there with baited breath going when's it going to turn to shit? Which is not a great way to live. And as I said, that sort of was something later in my life had started triggering all these anxiety issues.
And yeah, so you get drafted, you play at the biggest club, you're one of the biggest stars. The bleached hair, all of that sort of thing. Did the anxiety surface in that time or was it all pretty smooth sailing at that point?
So footy at that point was all happy days. It was you know, Sunchow's lollipops and rainbows. It was as you said, I was drafted, picked two, like that was the childhood dream. I got to play round one again, childhood dream. Played Anzac Day four rounds in in front of ninety thousand, took a hangar, pretty much hit the match winner, and you know, fast forward five years we'd
won a premiership. It was just a constant onwards and upwards and even the way you know from under fourteens, fifteen, sixteen, seventeens, eighteens, there was sort of the same spiral. I put all my effort into footy and everything sort of went perfect. My under eighteen year of Gibbe Power made the VIC team, made all astray and we won the Grand Final. I got best on like it was. You talk about people having great years in like VC and whatnot, getting ninety
nine point nine. That was literally my footy was my highlight of schooling.
And that's so you're saying you didn't get ninety nine point nine days.
From memory, I got thirty three point six. So to anyone listening who's an academic, I'm sorry, but my footballing was the ninety nine point nine perfect score. So that was that. So everything was like and again I didn't Football was the one thing that I kept going back to and it kept providing and out for any troubles
that I had in my life. So it wasn't really until I got injured and the football was not there or it was taken away, and then coming back to football then became scrutiny and pressure and the scrutiny I speak I've been. That was the time when Twitter was starting, so it wasn't just media into me. It was anyone who could get their claws in. So that was when football became the one thing I'd loved was almost taken away and I had no other way of dealing with things.
And when you say get your claws in.
Yeah, well I don't want to sort of sit here and say poor old me. But at the time any
there was yeah, I don't reckon. I could go a day without an article being written on me in a paper or someone reporting a story, and that even you know, that continued from once I left Colin Wood, probably more so once I left, but then, you know, every year it seemed like as soon as before round one start, there was one journal in particular who would write an article and just like, no matter how good things were going,
and then everyone would just jump on that. And you know, it seemed like I just couldn't escape and that was just bearing.
Me side, and that's bearing you inside. That's strong, that's strong.
It was because you know, you do a pre season of like six months, you give your all. You're like, this is it, this is going to be my year. And one article, one blog punching out, you know, an opinion piece purely for clickbait and traction. You know, he's just like, well here it goes again, sort of set up.
And what about social media?
Yeah, well that was another one. That was a forum that you don't learn about or we weren't versed in really, and so then to have people, you know, a pretty simple bloke, it's I call it as I see it. You know, I wouldn't say to someone a line something I wouldn't say to their face, so to then have people just slamming me and tell me, you know you pretty much, you're essentially you're a ship football, you're a ship person. It's hard not to try and figure out, like, well,
why are they saying that? You know? And it sounds stupid, and but you know when it's just coming and coming and coming. And at that point I was reading it, which is probably the dumbest thing. You sit there and go what is this all about? Why am I doing this? If this is what it's come to? Why even bother?
Does it get to a point as well where it's one of those things that even if you don't believe what people were saying, if they say it too often enough, you start believing it's true or taking it on board.
I think so yeah, to some extent, you just it was just there constantly like and no matter what I'd like, I just couldn't seem to break it hard work, and as I said, footy was always something that was able to no matter what was going on, I could break it. The harder I worked, I seem to get injured, I couldn't get back and play footy, or if I did get back and play, I was underdone. And then wouldn't perform and then they'd keep another load of shit on me.
So for that to get to the levels that it did, you know, I genuinely just I didn't want to go outside. I didn't want to pick up my phone. I was just a I was a genuine mess.
So you just completely bunking down.
Yeah, I hated it, like even the start of when I first got drafted to Hollingwood and people recognizing me in the street like that took so much getting used to like it. And there was the points where I hated that, like I didn't want to go out. I didn't want to go to restaurants. I didn't want to leave the house because I just I don't know, I just got really anxious about people coming up, and which is weird. But overcame that and then.
Did even talk at you. When you refer to it, now you look anxious that you start feeling.
I feel, you know, it almost jolts memories of you know, the feelings that are attached with the story and to have to be all you wanted was to play AFL footy and then to get there and do it. You know, you dream of kicking goals and people knowing you, I guess. And then for that to live the dream and then almost not appreciate it or really dislike what it actually is was such a weird thing to conceptualize because that's
all I dreamt of. And again this was another lot of feelings that I had when you know, changing clubs and when I was absolutely copying it. Footy was always meant to be the one thing that was rate and enjoyable, and it was probably became the biggest bearer of shit in my life.
So you went from Collingwood to Carlton, so the two pretty much two of the biggest clubs in the land. Not many people do that, certainly on high profile contracts like you. And it was a big contract. And if I remember it correctly, you were injured at the time, had the ankle, wasn't it, which was taking some time to get over. How much added pressure was there by the size of the contract and the size of the move.
See, to me, I probably didn't give it enough not respect, because I like, just in terms of how big a deal it was in like, how many people actually gave a shit from the outside world. I was like, no, everyone will understand, you know, this is how it was. I'd given my all for that footy club. Towards the end it wasn't working out. Everyone could see that, you know, let's go for a fresh start. Well, you know, I
couldn't have been all wrong. Everyone was just like you're a sell out, this, that and the other, and behind the scenes there was a lot more going on that you know, I still won't speak about to this day. But to then again almost fall on my sword and then cop it from everyone get to the blues underdone, but still expectation that if you can play, you should, knowing that I wasn't it at one hundred percent or even close to it, And then that sort of made
things worse again. So you know, in hindsight, I would have taken a bit longer to get myself out on the park. But I could play, just not at the level one I knew I could or was expected to. And that again just meant that everything and everyone could then have an opinion and throw some more crap.
At me, because I imagine in that sense most of it is external. But also you start there, you know, questioning your own decision making and all that sort of stuff as well, were you're starting to also put pressure on yourself at that point.
Yeah, it was just everything you know, I want to I always thought that I could work. The harder I worked, I could get myself through it. And then that sort of wasn't happening. So I was like, that was the only way of dealing with things. And when that wasn't working, I was, I will, how do I fix this? And I had no answers, And at that point I wasn't
willing or able to almost admit defeat. I'd sort of put up the barriers and arm right, you know, stuff them, I'll stick it up and I'll be able to show them. And I guess, deep down, I truly believe that was it. I sort of thought that, you know, one good game would lead to two good games, three good games. It seemed that I'd play one good game and then it'd go away, and then if the next week was bad, someone would fire up the chat again and then bang,
it was just on. So it was. It was just a big shit show really that I couldn't escape.
So how did you cope with it or how did you handle that at the time?
Well, at the time I handled it horrifically. I pretended that everything was fine, which it wasn't. And that was exhausting, that process of going into footy, and at that time there was cameras nearly every day just waiting to speak to me and get a clip like it must have been. You know, I felt as bad for my teammates, like there were so many good things, players playing good footy and the only thing that seemed to be cared about was me and my ankle or why couldn't get a kick?
So there was that, and then just not dealing with it was you know, go in, pretend everything's fine, come home and sleep, drive to training, ball my eyes out and get out, like put yourself together, go in there, pretend everything's fine again, joke, laugh, train the best you could, and then come home and repeat. It's just an exhausting process.
So you just sit and cry in your car and the way to training, just overwhelmed by it all.
Well, I just knew what was coming, So it's you know, you're almost driving to you almost blame yourself. It's like, well why am I driving to go face it again.
It's really tough to hear you talk about it because you are such a you're an extrovert of a personality. You love having a laugh, you love having a joke. How hard was that aspect of it to be that type of personality when inside you felt the opposite.
That was probably the toughest bit. And to try and figure that out myself, you know, as I said, I am as people probably figure out now, there is more to me, a bit more of a deep thinker than the jovial idiot that comes out most times I'm in front of a camera or they see me on tally because that's you know, it's either the footy playing of the footy, or it was the little clips on the media from whatnot. But to want to be the happy person, and you know, as I said, there was so much
good going on. You know, I was essentially living out my dream, and for whatever reason, I'd drive to training and hate every minute of it, and then come home and hate every minute of that because there'd be news stories, or to try figure that out was that was doing my head in as much as everything else, because I knew, I guess deep down that something wasn't right and the way I was feeling was more than just being sad or feeling a bit sorry for myself or you've had
a cup tough couple of weeks or you know, there's a bad article. Everyone goes through that, Everyone cops the shit at some time, and for the most part of my career I was able to deal with that and going, you know what, this is just normal. But it got to the point where I was like, this cycle has to end of one me feeling bad for myself. You know, I just yeah, the life I was living was you know, you think of an AFL footballers, all glitz and glamour.
I'd go to training, hate it. I'd play, I'd hate it. I'd come home and hate it. It's like, how are you meant to exist when that's all that's happening.
You're listening to. Ordinarily speaking with Dale Thomas, when was it at its worst?
Probably in the off seasons when the food you got taken away and you could you know, you almost had a carte blunche of and drink piece until you couldn't stand up anymore. Because one it was almost not acceptable. But you know, for the mad Monday week you get to have a good time and I could just anything that it was built up. I could almost go and try and suppress it through drinking and having a good
time and a party. And don't get me wrong, I still like a good time and a party, but when it's sort of destructive behavior and drinking for a purpose of just to almost forget, that's when, you know, I realized and yeah, it was like, well, this again isn't something that I want to do. And to be almost heading down the path of the old man and sort of being able to think about that at times, go Gee's you know, this is a slippery slot. Again. That
was something that I'd start beating myself up over. And it's yeah, I've used the word shit shot a few times, but my life was a genuine shit scholl at times.
When was that when.
A few years in a cart I reckon it was so and.
I'm talking about a couple of years ago.
Yeah, only I don't know the exact dates, but towards the end of that off season, I then it was almost forced to go and see someone, which was the best thing ever. Who forced you Well, at the time, I mentioned it to the club and then lil and Craig Miller, liul I Sullivan Craig Miller were like, well, you know, let's facilitate something to come along, and they literally came along with me, walked me and Mail two of course mel Oberhoffer, my manager. They all came along
with me. They sat in the waiting room while I went and cried my eyes out in front of a sixty year old lady who turned out to be And again life works in funny ways. Going to see this person. I don't know if I'm allowed to say a name, but it was something that genuinely changed the course of my life and how I see it playing out from here.
When you went into see the club, what did you say.
To them, Well, this was another thing you talk about anxiety around and what you're hiding from your teammates, your family. To go and confront your coach when at this point I was pretty much playing for my career as well. It's the start of pre season and to pretty much front up and say, mate, I'm not in any shape to participate in football or what you want. And to almost get to the point of going, well, you know, if you do sack me, I don't really care because
I need help. That's you know. To get to that point was a big deal. So to have that conversation was scary. But again, the way you think it plays out to how it actually does was completely different. You know, I thought it would be what have you done? You're an idiot? But everyone was good enough to wrap their arms around me.
Was there something that prompted that going and asking because you're saying you're sort of drinking continuously in an off season and feeling really bad. Was there one moment that you went, I can't do this any longer?
Well, there was probably a few along the way. I think, just understanding that I couldn't go on like pretending that everything was fine because I knew that it wasn't. So I just had to I guess, man up and say, you know, I'm not right. The way I'm thinking, the way I'm feeling this isn't normal.
And being a dad as well, was that a big driver in it?
Yeah? For sure, you know, but I was. I still think at that time I was being an okay dad, So you know, my energies were a good dad even you know, my energy is to be around Matilda and to what that looked like. I was always so conscious of not being that bad dad, but then to be almost living a lie to her, to the footy club, to my mates. Again, it just you do you end up doing your own head in so I was like, you know, I can't continue this way.
So you felt like you were living two lives in a way.
Yeah, Well there was the big fraud and the big front of you know, this is what people think you are. And you know, if anyone knew of how bad I was thinking, they would have been like, well, why wouldn't you say anything? And looking back now, obviously that's easy to say, but at the time you're like, jeez, this is who they think I am. So I've just got to keep living it.
Had you ever saw any because there's club psychologists around most sporting organizations these days. Had you ever gone and seen one?
Yeah, so I went to I had to chat with one at the footy club, and I guess I didn't really get the answers I was looking for, or I wouldn't say the support, but just you know what I thought of was saying and reached out to and how bad I knew it was. Maybe I didn't portray that well enough and it was sort of somewhat dismissed. I went and saw another counselor through the PA at one point, and again it was you know, I almost got told what I wanted to hear in terms of you'll be right,
it's not the end of the world, YadA YadA. Again, maybe I didn't convey how bad it was, so it didn't really help, and I was When that happens, you sort of go, well, is this the answer. It's a big deal to reach out and put your hand up, so I'm struggling and that to then sort of feel like, well that didn't work. You're almost back to square one.
So you eventually did find somebody that helped you. What was it that helped you? Do? You think.
Just the understanding that one there's a way out of it, like you don't have to keep living like this. There's there's reasons that you're feeling like this, you know, within me telling my story and at that point of going and opening up and talking about my old man. You know, I don't even know if my mum. I would have spoken to mum about it. I certainly wouldn't have spoken to my best mates and you know, anyone else about it.
So there would have been maybe one or two people maybe that knew, and that's only because they lived it, like my mum and my sister. And again we never discussed it. It was just one of those things that sort of I never bought up.
Have you discussed it with your mom now?
Yeah, And we had a really good chat. You know. In terms of that, it was almost like me saying, please, don't ever blame yourself for you know, it could have been a lot worse if it wasn't if you went there. So to have someone and someone you're speaking to you feel like not only do they understand it, they're providing solutions and giving you hope that there's a better way to be living when that's all you need was something that I really related.
To a bit of validation as well.
Yeah, and just that you're not the person that you've convinced yourself you are. You know, there's so many even when reaching out to people and explaining you know, when I started seeing the cancer and having to put my hand up saying, look, I'm really struggling. This is what's happening. You know, if you could just keep an eye out for me or you know, you know, this is what it is to have people then be like, what are you talking about? You know, we love hanging out with you.
You're a rippen person, you know, Stop being yourself up or you know, we're here to help. To know that you've got a support network and people that genuinely care was as much validation, I guess as I needed until I could see that, you know, I wasn't the shitkicker that everyone was right about.
As as I said, lots of people, you know, elite athletes have access to this, Lots of people in the real world don't. Necessarily they have to go out and seek it themselves. For those people, did it get worse for you before it got better after you, because a lot of people say when they go on see a psychologist, it actually it's almost worse at the start because you're dealing with stuff that you've just suppressed for so long.
For sure, the first few sessions, and I was sort of going twice a week and trying to smash it because again I was doing pre season in between it, so I didn't really it wasn't like I could just cruise through it and solve the problem as they came. So the first couple of sessions, I would come home and be absolutely exhausted, like the mental drain, talking about things that I hadn't spoken to with anyone for thirty years.
And then bringing them up, and then not only bring them up, but also like almost delving into the emotion the images that are attached with that. It was such a confronting experience, but you know, the hour or two posts that, the relief that then you failed off your shoulders was amazing, and it was almost like, I want to go back and you know, let's do some more. Let's try and fix some more of this shit that I've been keeping in.
So you're trying to save your career at the same time.
Because this is going on, yeah, just keeping it nice and simple. I was.
Because you end up playing some pretty decentty. So you've had a couple of years where you're overcoming injury, you're in and out of the twos.
I was in there once. It took twice after drinking.
I was like, I'm not going to I'm not going to say mullets. And then and then you get to a point where you you decide there's a clause in your contract which basically says you've played enough footy that we're going to keep paying your pretty good money to keep going. You trigger that clause, you decide that you didn't want to basically enact that at the club that
you were going to take a cut. Can you tell us a bit more about that decision, because it sounds to me like you were working a lot behind the scenes on who you are and the person that you wanted to be as well. Was that part of that decision making process?
Deep down? I just think that decision was for me. Everyone's like, oh, it must have been so hard. It was easy. I wasn't. I never went across for the money. You know, you go across before opportunity. You get paid what you're paid because you're a good player. You know. It's not as if I wrote the contract and said this is what I want. There's people in place, which is amazing in the AFI world that people forget that.
You know. It wasn't like me and Mick came up with a price and we were the only two to sign off on it. You know, it touches many hands before you get signed off on it. So when you sign a big contract, you're getting paid what people think you deserve to then have a clause that I reach and literally limp to to think. You know, I knew deep down I wasn't worth the money they were going
to have to pay me. We were losing. There was stupid politics going on around sort of that clause and if I could get to it and swinging through the twos for a week to maybe not get to it. So I was like, you know, I said to Paul manager, I was like, if this is what it is, like, I don't want to do this. I'll back myself in to play good enough footy, you know, and if they want me at the end of the year, they want me, and I'll play for what I deserve and what I'm worth.
We need if I give them them being the footy club, you know, if that money's freed up, we may be able to get another player, We may be able to keep some players. Because I didn't play for myself. I played my whole career from wanting to be successful and to win, so to lose every week to me was the worst thing in the world. Like if I could do, in any way, shape or form, be a part of changing that, I would. So it was just an easy decision. It was the right thing to do. I wasn't worth
what the contract said. We signed it at a time where I was and circumstances had changed, so why not change that too. What was the difference cash wise, Oh please, I was playing for minimum chips and a can of coke verse well, and now on that point the total player payments had increased too, so that was part of the clause. So it's a pretty hefty figure. I don't think we'd be sitting on a couch here. We won't be on a yacht somewhere discussing this now. It wasn't
that big. But in terms of as I said, I didn't come. I didn't play for money, you know, as much as that is part of it, and at times just backed into a corner to almost feel like you have to and you know there's a negotiation all the byproducts of that. That was just the right decision and one that sat more comfortably with me making than if I had been like, nah, i've hit the trigger. You know, that just would have been a disaster.
Last year, you looked back to really loving footy, and I remember interviewing you a couple of times throughout at Carlton. You were playing pretty good footy and then they decided not to offer you another contract. You handled that publicly, I thought, really really well. So when I lost my job, I looked at you, thinking the way that you handled that was pretty inspiring and it can be challenging behind the scenes. How challenging was that decision to hear?
Oh I got told at the day of a funeral and believe it or not, which obviously isn't great, But that was because I, you know, they had a list management meeting and I said, well, as soon as you know, let me know. To be honest, it was hard to hear knowing that, and the emotions I guess came a few weeks after, when I knew I was getting close to playing my last game and not being able to ever run out in front of the crowds and whatnot. Being told the decision itself sat relatively well with me.
I think I knew I'd given my all in terms of mental capacity over the however many years I was six years I was a Carlton. To then get back and play the footy I was playing, you know, and actually providing something on the field was again something that all I wanted to do. I felt like I was earning the respect of the Carlton faithful. I was trying my guts out, like whether we were ten goals down
the game was closed, I was every ball. You know, I was playing like it was my last, and there was times in the lead up the year or two before where I thought it may have been my last. So to get to a point where it's like, well, you know, every year was almost a bonus year, so you may as well enjoy it rather than worrying, oh jeez, you know I've got a play. Well, I sort of went the opposite way and said, well, you know, if this is the end, let's enjoy it. Let's have as
much fun as we can. Let's embrace every opportunity that comes with it, Embrace every moment. Because I was always aware that at some point my football career would end. And yeah, to be playing good footy, I guess almost sits better with me because now the legend grows.
Are you content with your footy career?
I am. Yeah. I wouldn't change anything throughout my whole life. You know, we've spoken about some pretty darkish and grim subjects and topics, but I wouldn't change a thing. You know, everything I believe happens for a reason and shapes you or changes you as a person and makes you who you are. That's, you know, a slightly more complex individual than most people would have thought. But everything that I've learned along the way will help me from this point on.
You know, footy is a small part of your life. It's a fourteen year blog if you do it well, which I was able to. There's so much more to life and football. I think I've always you know, that's the one great thing about the rat Pack was that they always and not in terms of just partying, but family friends. You know, your friends and your family will always be their Football is a part of your life, not the entirety of it, and that's not what defines you.
So to finally get to a point where when I understood that, and then to get to the end and go okay, you know amazing. You tell the eight en year old kid from drawing that you can have played two hundred and fifty eight games, win a flag, you know, be all restrained at one time, being a conversation that you could have been the best player in the camp. I wouldn't change it. Nothing I look back on with regret.
How's the transition going into post footy life?
Madam A bloody what are those celebrity you freaking get me out of his reality tvst No to be honest, it's been good. I've as I said, you know the fact that the decision sat well with me. If it hadn't have if I had of and you know, you say how I handled it publicly, Yeah, behind closed doors at times I was a bit like I could have played it's a bit stiff YadA YadA. But I never sort of got into the yeah. I never really got into the bitterness or feeling sorry for myself. I was like, Okay,
well this is what it is. There's no he's sulking. And again, maybe you know, four or five years ago it would have been a trigger to go out and be a lunatic. But to yeah, to know and be excited about what's coming now is something that I really look forward to a new chapter. Footy was a part of my life. It was a big part, but as I've just said, there's so much more to living. I'm thirty two years old. I'm still pretty young.
Is it scary at all? Yeah?
To some extent, because well, when you're playing well, you're locking away four year contracts or three year deals, and you've got constant security in that. I guess, whereas now I'm sort of off to my find my own path again. But like I've done with everything, I'll back myself in to be whatever I do, to be determined enough to
be good at it and to make it work. And I think the fact that that's my mindset gives me great confidence to go out and just be the best I can be and hope that again, that it all works out for me.
You touched on it a little bit earlier, but how did your relationship with your dad and the kind of bloke that he was shape the way that you wanted to be as a dad to Tilly?
Oh well, I'm perfect in a sense. It worked out well because I've got the complete blueprint of what not to do. So it's just, you know, flip that upside down and you've gone from having the world's worst dad, so you flip it upside down, you can be the
world's best dad. So look mantilit to and you know, even some of the moments we got to share over the past couple of years on the footy field as well, and her understanding what that was, Yeah, those things are memory she'll have forever her and obviously to be a part of that is great. But just little things like I don't care if I'm running around in a frozen dress on a Saturday afternoon, I'm more than happy to
do it, you know, to see her having fun. If I'm dancing like an idiot, if we're skateboarding downhills, if we're chasing ducks at the park. You know, just pretty much like what my mom did. Anything to make me enjoy what I'm doing whilst trying to instill values in a very complex world and navigate all of that is you know, I love being a dad, and I think that she's become a really nice, respectable and respectful young girl, even if she's only four.
What's your mom's relationship like with.
The amazing every time, you know, every time anyone speaks of mum, because what she's done and what she continues to do, like at times, you know, I get Matilda every second weekend, and there's times where I have to go and commentate footy or I'm not around, and for to still be picking up the pieces and been there to help me out is amazing. So and Tilly loves her mum and my sister. They all moved down to Talkie. So my sister's got two kids, one's Olie's till his age,
and they get along like a house on fire. So to have that and for Tilly to have someone you know, and to bring that family aspect as well. You know, we go down there because till he loves seeing Oli, but then I also get to see the family as well. It's a really nice dynamic.
Finally, for people who are listening who maybe relate to something of what you're saying, do you think it took you to that moment to ask for help or do you wish she did it earlier.
I certainly wish I did it earlier. But you know, until you sort of hit the bottom, you don't really know how far down you can go. So and so to anyone who is listening or does feel like they're not in a good spot, I'd certainly encourage them to reach out because if I, if I had done that, things may I've played out differently. I could have played better footy for longer. I could have been happier for longer as a person, which at the end of the day,
that's the main thing, is enjoying life. There's so much good happening and so many good things to look forward to that to be walking around like a sad sack isn't ideal. So if I could have reached out earlier, I would have. But again I wouldn't change it because where I'm at now to where I was three or four years ago is chalk and cheese.
And will you still continue to get help? Will you still monitor that?
Yeah? For sure? I think it's. As I said, there's a lot going on and the world is a rather confusing place and life just keeps throwing curveballs and challenges that are so to almost want to get better, And I almost look at it like a training mechanism. You know. If you want to get better at running, you keep running. If you want to live a happier, healthier life, keep
going to it seeks and speak to someone. And for me at work, so for everyone that may not be the case, but it certainly works for me.
Daisy. It's really nice to see you happy and healthy. All the best in the next adventure of your life, and thanks for spending some time with you, no drama's nice, Thank you time. Please remember there is help out there, places like Beyond Blue and Lifeline. If you enjoyed this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, you might want to go back and listen to episode one featuring Collingwood's Adam Trelaw. A new episode drops on Wednesday, so please hit subscribe and
follow the podcast on Instagram at ordinarily Underscore speaking. Thanks again, Jesus, show
Me that you want of me though,