Caitlin Thwaites - Ordineroli Speaking

the personal anguish behind that premiership. Having managed mental health issues throughout her life, the compounding nature of COVID had dire consequences on Caitlyn's well being, all the while she was also coping with news that had rocked her family. I want to thank Caitlyn and her family for allowing their private battle to go public in this episode. I can't stress enough that this chat contains some very raw and confronting content that may be triggering for some people.

Please listen with care and know that there is help out there. Beyond blue dot Org, Dot au and Lifeline one three Double one one four are just a couple of places you can go. This is a story of strength and resilience, and I thank Caitlyn for the bravery she has shown in her bid to try and help others. I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks so much for spending some time with me. You've spoken about your mental health issues a little bit before. What made you

do that in the first place. Yes, I think initially it was hard for me to speak about it openly at the time when I probably didn't have the coping skills or the strategies and I felt like I was fully in the.

if I could help others. So it's almost like a paying it forward type thing for you. Yeah, and you know, it's We've come so far in terms of reducing stigma, you know, the normalizing of mental health issues since my diagnosis. So my diagnosis was probably about ten or twelve years ago, and the attitudes around that publicly have changed so much

in that time, which I'm really grateful for that. But yeah, I think you know, even within netball, within Netball Australia, within the Diamonds, I know that the support and things has kind of evolved with me as I've kind of gone through the program, and the support and things that have kind of been put in place around me have actually helped put those processes in place forever for the future. So what were you diagnosed with? Diagnosed with depression and anxiety.

So I think I'd experienced bouts of depression before, but just didn't know that that's what it was. I suffered from acute anxiety attacks at times. And what did that look like for you? It was very physical in terms of the symptoms. So initially when I started having the anxiety attacks, I was getting checked out to see if I had epilepsy because of how severely I shook, you know, I had like a tremor, the hyperventilation, you know, tingling

in my extremities due to the hyperventilation, uncontrollable crying. Yeah, they were pretty full on in terms of, you know, the physical symptoms of what it was. So when did your first experience something like that? At the Institute of Sport when I lived up there, So I lived up there for volleyball and I was sixteen years old, And yeah, the very first one, I remember running home from school in my school killed and my shoes and trying to

get to training in time. And I just had to get in there and tell the coach that, like, something's

wrong with me. I need to go to the medical center, Like I don't know what this is, but I can't be here for training, like I'm just was so overwhelmed, and the attack kind of proceeded to happen, and it was quite frustrating because by the time any of the nurses or the doctors actually managed to get in and see me, it had passed, and so it kind of appeared to me, you know, to them like there wasn't actually any symptoms or like, what are you going on about that?

have been so scary when that first happened. How old were you sixteen?

of a lot going on. Yeah, when was it that you went okay, it is okay, I'm going to be okay because you got I guess a diagnosis around it. It wasn't until I was about twenty one. So I had gone through kind of you know, multiple I would call them lack you know, months worth of being in that cloud of depression. And yeah, it wasn't until I was about twenty one that that diagnosis came. And that was through the acknowledgment of the physio at the Melbourne Vixen's.

You know, we've got a great relationship and he's been with me since I was really young through the state teams and knows me really well, and he picked up on the fact that my behaviors were changing and he intervened and said, hey, Katie, I think it's time for us to go and you know, see your doctor and get checked out and see what's going on. Because he could see that I wasn't you know, I wasn't the same as what I normally normally would be when that

diagnosis for me happened. It was a huge relief, I think initially because it kind of felt like, Okay, well now it's got a name and we know what it is. Now there's going to be these steps that we can take, you know, there was a prognosis, there was things that we could do moving forward that would help. It was probably that initial relief then kind of was followed with many years of going actually this isn't as we thought

it was. It was very very difficult, you know, at times to get through those really big, big clouds, and like I said, sometimes they're very short or you know, I can experience some of the symptoms of that, and other times it's you know, six months worth of being in a hole. Yeah, so when you say being in a hole, what does that look.

normally want to do. It was just gone and empty and feeling very feelings of worthlessness, suicidal ideation. Yeah, all sorts of things that kind of come along with that. So there's the whole of what that looks like for me, Like, I'm now so acutely aware of what those symptoms are that I really don't want to ever get myself into place that is unable to help myself, because there have been times when it's been that bad that even if I wanted to, I couldn't. I couldn't do anything to

try and help myself. And that's a really scary place for me.

to even see the top a lot. Yeah, and so it becomes even putting the steps in place that you know that will help, but it seems too far away and the effort required to do those small things is so great. Yeah, for me, it's definitely about staying in that place where you can still see the light, you can still have traction under your feet, and kind of implement some of those things where it will get better.

that's physically for me. Every single thing that I did was you know, from from looking out a window picking which tree you know, to cutting up some food and finding a knife, to getting in the car and you know, finding a pole that you think you.

other people around you, the people that love you. But I think the biggest thing for people who don't necessarily understand that is that the disease actually takes a way your ability to see it from other people's eyes, and so that's something you lose perspective, and you can only see it through your tunnel vision, and that tunnel vision can get incredibly focused on where is my way out

because I don't want to be here? Did you tell your family at the time, Did they know the depths of what you were going through?

So to actually find somebody that you click with that can break through some of those things, because for a lot of the time during that time, I was fronting up and putting that mask on that you hear people talk about, you know, to the extent that if somebody said, hey,

how are you going today, Caitlyn, what you been up to? Like, I would fabricate and make up some story about what I'd done that day because I was so ashamed that it wasn't until twenty minutes ago that I'd managed to scrape myself out of bed and get through the shower and get.

and you know, because I'm now living in a different country or I'm now living somewhere else, and I have to rehash all of this so that they can understand. But for me, even though some of that work was really hard, it's definitely been worth it because even you know, not having been with the same providers the whole time, I've actually learned different things off all the different people

as well. All of that is I think it's so important because there's so many people that are first of all scared to take the first step, but then do take it and go, oh no, that's not what I thought it would be or it's not what I needed. What got you through in the end, What were the small steps that you talk about that started to get you to emerge from that place? Well, there's you know, there's so many things, and it's not just one thing, like there's so many different things that now I implement

into my daily you know wellness. But at the time, I think it was attempting to see that I had value beyond the value that I was putting on myself. That's been a real struggle because for a lot of my pathway through mental health. I haven't valued and have not seen the worth that I can bring. So that's been a huge one. Do you know why, Like, do you know where it came from those feelings?

So and that's where to me, sport has actually played an incredibly important part because at times when I was in the depths of you know, dealing with those mental demons, sport for me was the place that I knew that I had value and I knew that I could bring something to the table, and that my team at times the only place that I felt like I would be missed if I wasn't to show up, you know, thinking that, oh,

but my teammates need me this weekend. So that for me was initially something that was so so important to be able to maintain.

and you need time to heal. But that wasn't an option for me because I that was at the time the only reason why I was getting out of bed, and it was the only place that I felt like I would be missed. It's fascinating because Natalie Medhurst came on in season one and she said something really similar, like, no, I want to keep playing and you're telling me you know I shouldn't. Is is you know, the worst case scenario because that would make me not want to come

forward the next time. Is that kind of how you felt as well? Firstly, I guess it's there's a there's an element of feeling like you can't take that away from me. If I flip that around now, I would think I'm so grateful that I've got this, like you know, and use that positive language of you know, the gratitude and the you know, whereas when you're in that mind frame, it's you can't take that away from me like it was. Yeah, I think the ramifications of if I had have been

forced to take time off would have been extreme for me. Yeah, But in saying that, I do on the flip side and understand how difficult it must have been, Yeah, for my teammates and for the staff to try and manage me through that time because I was you know, we talk about high performance behaviors and things like that, and I wasn't living up to what the standards of the team were. And I understand that now. At the time, I probably didn't think that I was behaving in a

way that wasn't. But yeah, in hindsight, there was definitely things that. Yeah, even just the way that I was, you know, you talk about that white line fever, being able to rock up to training and you know, leave your shit at the door and.

going on for me. But then I also kind of selfishly thought that, well, if people are aware, then potentially they can help and they might be able to help me. And this is where I think across the last kind of ten or so years, the attitudes and things have changed so much because initially, when I sat down and told all my teammates and I said to them, I don't want you stepping on eggshells around me. Don't not

yell at me because I have dropped that ball. You know, I still want you to behave the way that you normally would. I don't want you to sugarcoat things for me, but I also think you need the context of how I'm doing at the moment, and I'm not doing great. I remember after it literally felt like I had bared my soul to them when I told them what I was dealing with. And I think I got a text message from one of my teammates and it was barely

ever spoken about again. And I think at the time that may that fed into the narrative of nobody cares. You know, look, you've told them all this, you've showed them everything, and they're still not reaching out or helping or doing anything. But that also, what I've come to understand is that it's at the time, it wasn't from a lack of caring.

some of that awkwardness. You will have figured out that worked or that didn't work, and you will be better at being that help or that support person for the next person that needs you.

held me accountable to getting out of the house. Or you know, a friend of a friend of mine, she would say, Katie, you're coming over for dinner tonight and I'd ring her up and say, oh no, I've got something else on. Or she read through my bullshit like anything and she say, now you're here like starting at five o'clock. See then, So without even talking to me about any of it, she got me out of the house. She had me interacting with others, and that was some

of the best. The best things for me was, you know, I had other people that I was opening up to and that I was talking to it a bit with so to have somebody who actually just you know, was calling me out on my bullshit or was getting me out of the house, that was super, super important too, because all the while you're the superstar on the netball court, you know, like I say, Diamonds Vixen's, and you're producing

and consistently producing as well. Is that part of it that what we see as mental health is not what it actually is. You know, what we think it's going to be is not how it actually presents itself. You can keep performing, you can be a superstar. You can be under the spotlight and behind closed doors not well

at all. I think that's something that I still shock myself, I think a bit with how at times I have been in incredibly poor mental health and still being able to get out there do my job and do it really well.

more acute. I would say, I think if I'm in a place of depression, I'm able to still step out there and do my job and kind of have that white line fever of whatever else is happening out there. I can step on the court and I think I've used the language before. I've been able to put my Superman cap on or whatever and get out there and

do it. But the anxiety stuff, I think is a bit different because it does physically affect your heart rate, the way that you're taking in information from your eyesight, your hands shape, you know. And I have had games before when I have been so anxious my pupils dilate, like it's where I've burnt up so much nervous energy before the warm up and so I'm almost faint by the time the game starts, you know, the game that

I can recall that from happening. I was lying down doing breathing exercises in the change room before the game, and I was on the bench. I wasn't even playing. So the level of anxiety of how that affected me without even actually getting out stepping on the court. But I think the other aspect around that has been the incredible way and Lisa Alexander has taken a leading role within Netpal Australia to be able to not ride me off.

I think a lot of coaches or a lot of people within organizations would think that it's too hard basket and we can't rely on we can't trust that player at this time because of all of these things. Whereas to me, Lisa's ability to understand and know her players, to know me and also to an extent not know what's going on with me too, because there's the fear that if if you divulge and tell everything to the coachable, then they're going to use that and not put you

out on the court. And for so much of my career, my Diamond's career, I've been fighting to get out on the court. So there's been an element of well, no, I don't want them to know that I'm in poor mental health because if that's going to be the decision, the deciding factor over whether they put me out there or not, I've been fighting my whole.

at the moment, they're under control. And I think we had a traffic light system where it was green, absolutely fine and ready to go. Amber is dealing with some stuff, but we're on top of it, and read was okay. We might need to let you know or just mind your language or your attitude around that player because they've

got a lot, a lot happening at the moment. So how proud are you that you've been able to help change the narrative, particularly in netball, but also in broader sport as well, because I mean, you know, traffic light systems, those sort of things like as you say, when you first were diagnosed, you were barely even aware of these sort of things, let alone the sport, sporting environment, being

embracing of it. Yeah, I think the sport has evolved and I have evolved with it as well, and even in terms of the way that I can speak about it and the coping mechanisms and things that I have the ability to do now. But I think that's been a mutual thing for us as well. I mean, the AIS held an education seminar type thing and we used

Netbule used and put forward my case study. I guess as a part of you know, what the sport is doing, and so to actually have me on board and have me present and be a part of the pitch at a all of the sports education type thing that's beneficial for the sports, beneficial for other sports, you know, all of those types of things, I think has been really helpful.

And even amongst teammates and things like that too. Know of other athletes who are dealing with things who've not necessarily come to me, but I think having had open and honest and vulnerable conversations and been okay with that, they've seen that actually the reaction to Caitlin hasn't actually been as bad as what I thought.

be remembered for? And I kind of said, because I do spend a lot of time investing in the community and mental health advocacy and all of these other things. Like I kind of said, well, I hope people remember that I was a bloody good player too, because it's.

mental health issues? Pretty huge? One of the best ways to describe it is the fact that and this is athletes in general like to be in control and like to know and have a plan about everything, and so obviously the uncertainty of what COVID brought into our world it shook things up, you know, it really really shook things up. So feeling like you knew everything that was happening, even to the extent of not knowing the start date of the season or if we're going to have a season,

to not know what training phase we were in. I think we probably did three phases of conditioning. We really conditioned, which I hated. That's my least favorite part of part of training. But it probably actually helped me out a bit because I ended up changing positions along the way, so being able to do that extra run and conditioning

stuff was helpful. But in saying that, I think initially for me, I struggled and it fed into some of my depressive behaviors because it took away a lot of the coping mechanisms and the coping things that I would put in place if I was struggling mentally, things like making sure I get out of the house and meet up with someone early in the morning, so that I can have a productive day. That was no longer an option. Even the motivation around training. For me, I've not really

been a self motivator A lot of the time. It's because my teammates are relying on me, and I need to be there and do this session and you know, and run my body hardest because I've got somebody who's right up my backside. You know. I'm more of an external motivator. So to then have the ability to train with your teammates taken away. That was in itself as well. Just so many things that normally I would if I was feeling stressed to go out and get an extra massage.

So that happened for us, We were standing in a very big, socially distanced circle after a training session, and my initial reaction as.

I might not have seen my dad again. There was so many different complications and things that he was dealing with that I guess the amyloidosis is a build up of a certain type of protein that attacks the function of your organs, and Dad had that of the lungs, the kidneys, and the heart, so his kidneys weren't functioning.

He was having He's continued to have to have, you know, two leaders of fluid drained from his lungs every four weeks or so for the last however long, he's had heart attacks where Mum had driven him to the hospital and managed to get him there just into the emergency room as he had a heart attack, and then because

of COVID, they wouldn't let Mom through the doors. So dealing with all of that, and you know, the treatment of what Dad was going through, He's not once had somebody being able to sit with him while he's going through his chemo treatment, and even throughout COVID because of the compromised immune system, there were periods of time even when we weren't in lockdown that as a family we decided it was safer not to go and see him.

So finding out that we had to go away was one of the hardest things for me to try and decide if I if I was going to do it. And and the way, the way that I justified that and got it around in my head was that if I, if I got on the plane and I went, I could still come home. And and that was in as hard as it was to not be in Victoria and not be here while the severity of the lockdown was happening, a saving grace for me was not having to quarantine upon return, so if anything was to happen.

to do. But having my family also been such an incredible support for me throughout my whole career that they wanted me to go. They wanted me to do my best. They wanted me to know to live my life and do those things. And the joy and the distraction that it brought for them given what they were going through, was something as well that was a silver lining that, you know, that held me in the positive mind frame

of yes, I'm still doing something to help them. Did you talk to your dad about the decision to go? Did you know what? Did he say?

and to spend time together and be there. But I think having you know, talk about the coping mechanisms and things that I've learned along the way, and prior to some of the big tournaments that we played, we would have a parent some partner education program in order for them to kind of, you know, feel more a part of it, understand what we were going through and best

ways for them to support us. But one of the best things that came out of that for me that I've utilized has been having some tough conversations with the family about if something happens, I don't want you to keep it from me, like That's that was the biggest, you know, the biggest one of the biggest things was I didn't want my mind to be going to Dad's in hospital again and he's dealt with this, and you know, Mum and Dad are hiding things they don't want to

tell me because they don't want me to know like I needed, because my brain would actually go ten steps down the line as to how bad he was in comparison to if they actually just told me, told me front up. Then I knew having conversations like that prior to going and making sure that that was the way that I wanted things to be communicated, and that would work, you know, really effectively for us.

and out of hospitals. He's managing at the moment. So he's got, you know, two or three days where he's being treated for different things and having to go into the hospital and have his chemo on a Tuesday and his amyloid treatment on a Wednesday. And you know, the amount of specialists that he's been collecting that are a part of his treatment team, it's pretty it's pretty impressive, yeah, to see them and the team work that is required

in that for his treatments. So getting home from the hub and dealing with all that we had to deal with in terms of the season.

to be able to see my family. Obviously that's what we managed and dealt with, but those were things that were very stressful. What was it like when you did get to see you smile, when you got to see him that first time after the hub. Well, it's been so difficult because you all, the first thing you want to do is give them a big hug.

incredibly difficult. But I've just been so grateful that we've been able to have the time that we've been able to have since returning from from the season and being able to play out the season and have the ending that we had given everything that we dealt with, and I literally said to Dad, if the final gets close, Dad can you please leave the room and turn this out off because I don't want to be the reason that you've had another heart attack and ended up in the hospital.

do that. You should have been pretty proud. Oh you got me cry the whole way through.

family there was a huge thing. But I've got a cousin that lives up in Queensland and she actually printed off all of the faces of my immediate family, had them on little sticks in the crowd before the game. Looking up in the crowd and seeing that it nearly set me off, and then I had to go, no, don't look at that, You've got a job to do.

We're really excited and very grateful that that has, you know, has happened for us. And you know, we've seen so many netballers and even you know recently Chelsea who's come out and explained, you know, the difficult teas that she's faced as a female athlete dealing with fertility. And I'm very mindful, you know, and very grateful that of the way that this has happened for us, and we're really looking forward to it. But we're also you know, feeling

for those that struggle. So when's your dad say when you told him? Actually, I wrapped up a little ball of wool and gave it to mum. The card had on it saying Nana, can you please knit me a rug because it's going to be cold when I come out in July.

of the rare blood diseases. And you know, this is the first time that I've spoken about it publicly and being mindful of not wanting to put extra attention or pressure or anything like that on the family, but I kind of I got back from the hub and thought, great, I'm going to go out and run a half marathon or a marathon or something to to raise money research for this, and yeah, and then pregnancy, how the other ideas about doing that, But Yeah, the Leukemia Foundation do

a lot of great work that filters money through to research for for amyloidosis and also obviously the multiple myeloma. So if yeah, if there was anybody that can spare some money at a time like this during COVID and we know that everybody's doing it super tough, but yeah, if people wanted to donate, the Leukemia Foundation would be a great one. How's your dad's approach been to it? And I guess does does he inspire you the way that's he's handling what he's going through. I don't think

I've heard a complaint out of his mouth. You know how hard it's been, or whether he's not feeling well.

life too. She's been a nurse for forty odd years, so she's doing an incredibly great job at being there for dad too. So to see the way that Dad has coped and he's taking everything in his stride as much as you know, I can't imagine how lonely it would be at times being in the hospital, not knowing, not being able to have anybody come and visit you throughout COVID. It's, I guess, been torture at times for the rest of us as a family to know how

to help when in the middle of a pandemic. At times we've been the ones that have been the risk to him, and none of us would forgive ourselves if we were to have taken, you know, taken COVID from the lives that we live, into his house, into his his environment that could potentially have been fatal. It's been

a really tricky and difficult time to navigate. Yeah, the strength that they have shown has has flowed on for the ability for me to have done what I've done last year, and I'm just so grateful for their strength and and I love them. Sounds like you've got some pretty ideal role models.

when you hear people talk about it. It really does help with whoever's personal journey it is, so I applaud your strength and you have every right to be proud of yourself for what you got through last year, and I can't wait to see how you navigate your way through the next fun challenge ahead. So thank you so much. Thanks, And I think for anybody that knows me knows that

I'm an emotional person. So if you've tuned into this and weren't expecting a few tears, then I'm gonna call you out to say you don't know me.