As you get older, time seems to move faster, so it's like if I'm going to do this, now is the time. You have been podcasting since podcasts have existed. After 20 years of working for big companies in podcasts, why can't I be the person that value goes? And from one day to the next, you're kind of doing it all by yourself. And that's both empowering and frightening. What do I want to do next? And does that line up with what people want from me, The number
one that I continue to learn? You're the first Orbit community member to be on the show, and I'm super excited to dig into your story. Well, I'm super grateful to be invited and to be able to talk to the audience here and, you know, represent the Orbit community because it's been actually, it's been pretty awesome. I need a community that can help me be accountable to people other than myself. Because it's a solar creator. Sometimes that accountability is really hard to find, yeah.
Our first conversation pretty much started off right away with the fact that you have been podcasting since podcasts have existed and kind of in large media organizations as a tech journalist and quite recently you have been laid off and decided to go on your own as a YouTube. Take me back to the day where you got laid off. What was on your mind? How did you make that decision
to become a YouTube? After 20 years of working for big companies in podcasting, building an audience, I'd seen friends of mine in the industry, be it journalism, be a podcast, media production, whatever. I'd seen them find success in going independent and you know, there was always that little voice in my head that was like, I have it you, you can pull that off now. I mean, you could try, but that would be embarrassing if you weren't able to stick the
landings, you know, whatever. And so I've been considering it for about, I'd say probably about two or three years prior to getting laid off. That, I guess tells you how fast I am to act on on thoughts like that, but I kind of had a sense that change was in the air with my position at twit leading up to the layoff. As luck would have it, I had decided that I was gonna put in my notice and just make 2024 the year that I try out being an independent content creator.
And my date on the calendar ended up being 2:00-ish weeks later than the date that they actually ended up laying me off. Wow. So from a timing perspective, it kind of worked out kind of perfectly, right? Like in my mind, I was like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to quit and we're just going to dive off the deep end and see what happens. And instead I got laid off, which carried with it, you know, the the nice benefit of getting a severance. So that was wonderful.
And in hindsight, in retrospect, I look back now and last year and I don't know how I could have pulled it off. I didn't have that severance. Yeah. So it was really on my mind. But, you know, there was always that doubt of like, am I going to be able to do this? Can I pull it off? I, you know, I know a lot of people who have have done that and they have excellent numbers on their channels and they're growing constantly and
everything. And, you know, I just wasn't entirely certain that like I could, I could launch like that. And it's been, it's been a slow process, I have to admit. First of all, this is such a fascinating, you know, coincidence where like you wanted to quit, then they let you go and it's just like it pushes you in a certain direction, right? So for she always hear these kind of stories, but what were the first couple of steps, you know, after starting over? How did you make this work in
the beginning? I mean, in the, in the very, very beginning, I, I had never in my adult career taken some time off. You know, it's like I got done with school, went right into working at CNET and I had been a full time worker for 20 years. So I was like, you know, these these moments don't come very often or hopefully they don't come very often where I can just kind of take my foot off the gas and give myself a little bit of a breather and kind of kind of
wait and see. Like I had done an Android podcast at Twit that was one of their more successful podcasts for a number of years called All About Android. And they had ended up canceling All About Android about a year before I got laid off. But my friends from the podcast had launched it independently for a podcast now called Android Faithful. So the immediate thing when I was done was, well, I know I'm joining them on Android Faithful. And that happened almost right
away. I think the, the very next week I was on Android Faithful going forward. That was kind of my only my only like bit of I know I'm doing this and I'm going to make at least a little bit of money in the process because right then it LED right into the holiday, right into the Christmas holiday in New Year's. And so I kind of allowed the proximity to Christmas and New Year's to be kind of a forced recalibration.
Like, all right, let's just like accept the fact that right before Christmas is probably a horrible time to announce any big new project. So I'm just going to wait until I get on the other side of New Year's and that'll give me some time to kind of contemplate and figure out what I want to do. I knew I wanted to launch a YouTube channel. I knew I wanted to launch an AI podcast with my friend Jeff Jarvis called AI Inside. That came a few months later.
But it was really, it was really strategizing and just like being, you know, looking at the options of which there were many directions I could go. But it's like, what? What do I want to fill my time with? Because now suddenly it's entirely up to me. And that's both empowering and frightening. And, and I didn't have anyone anymore saying this is what we want you to do next. It was like, well, what do I want to do next? And, and, and I think this is a
big kind of caveat to that. What do I want to do next? And does that line up with what people want from me, you know, or people expect from me? Because I did have a 20 year career of people who have followed me over the years doing the different shows that I've done. And, you know, it's really it, it was about like, and I also need to make money. I need to like a career requires me making a living for my family, you know, And so it was
a challenge. And I'd say by and large, 2024 was a, you know, as far as like making money for the bottom line, It was a, it was a pretty empty year for the most part, but it really started with just kind of getting creative and, and really getting serious with myself as far as like, what do I, what I really want to spend my time doing? I don't want to lock myself into something that a year or two down the line is is moving. And I hate it because I'm like,
why am I doing that? Like I didn't enjoy doing that before, but I did it this time because it's what people expect from me. And now I'm miserable. I really didn't want to do that. The. What do people expect from me? That is such an important question, especially like in your situation, I think it could have been very reasonable to just find a different job at a different news outlet, right? Was that not an option for you?
Like why? Why did you already decide like, I want to make a YouTube channel? What was grabbing your attention in? That I think it was the fact that, well, a my wife is an independent businesswoman. You know, she's now, she's started like 3 different businesses. So I watch her model and how successful and how she approaches that. And I look at that with just a lot of awe in how, how no, I don't want to say easy because she, it's not like it's easy for her.
And I know it's not easy for her, but she's able to think through it. And in the end, at the end of the day, own her thing. And I had always worked for companies and you know, I think through my time at Twit, I realized at a certain point, like I know how to create these things that have value for someone else because I've done it for 20 years and everything that I create has value for them. And otherwise, like they'd be letting me go or they'd be repositioning me to a different
role. It continues to bring value to the company. It continues to earn that money. Why can't I be the person that value goes towards? And I think that was, that was always my, my thought. Could I have gone into, you know, journalism and, or, or gotten hired by another company and everything. I, I'm sure, but I felt like this was kind of an opportunity for me to try something that I had thought of for at least three, 4-5 years in, in one way shape or form.
And I, and you know, I'm getting older. I'm 49 right now and I, I don't, I feel like as I get older, my opportunities to take risks like that start to diminish. And as you get older, time seems to move faster. And so it's like, if I'm gonna do this, now is the time because later it's gonna be even more challenging. And, and I also kind of thought about the fact that, like, if I do this now and it's painful, time's still gonna go by and
it's gonna be two years later. And two years later, am I going to be able to look back and say the last two years I've been building my thing? Or am I going to be like, I took that other job instead? And then now it's two years later. And if I had done that, where would I be? And I've done that a lot in my life in, in my, you know, previous history. I didn't want to do that again. And so I decided to take a chance on myself. Ultimately, a friend said,
you're taking a bet on yourself. And that's exactly what it is. And if you can't bet on yourself, who can you bet on? Oh my gosh, that is that is a beautiful quote that's already going to make it into short form clips. I know it. It's true though. It's true. You know, I think we, we look for a lot of a lot or I, I can speak for myself in, in my history in this industry, I've looked for a lot of external kind of Pats on the back or reassurances that I'm doing the
right thing. This was really the first time where I said, you know what, I have a gut feeling about this. I'm gonna go ahead and take a chance on myself and see where it leads. And if it doesn't work, like at least I tried, at least I can look back and I can go, I did that and I created those things. It didn't quite work the way it did, but I learned an amazing amount in the process. And who knows where that path leads from there.
You know, that leads in other directions that I wouldn't have had if I hadn't tried it. So, you know, it was a little bit of financial pain and, and continues to be a little bit of financial pain, although things are better now, but, but I think there's a lot of benefits, a lot of very tangible rewarding benefits outside of just the monetary side of things.
It is so true that you learn so many skills building your own little media outlet that even if it fails financially, there's still so much to gain for that you can apply to to other areas, right? Hey, real quick, if you're enjoying this conversation, if you're learning something, if you feel inspired, can you do me one simple favor? And that is just to share this episode, Share it with people, you know, share it on social media because the algorithm does
not care. But if you're still here, you do. And the only way more people get to see this type of content is if people like you talk about it and share it. So that is the only ask I have for you. This content is completely free and I'd love for you to enjoy it. But yeah, if you want more of this, just share it. And now let's go back to the show.
But So what are what are those things that are different or similar between working with a team and now being your being responsible for just yourself, right? What are the the things that you didn't expect or what are the things that were super familiar to you? I mean, I can tell you right off the top, the, the, the number one lesson that I continue to learn. And maybe it, maybe it's not a lesson as much as it is in
appreciation. But you know, I worked for 20 years with two companies with incredible resources, with wonderful staff, you know, really wonderful people and friends who I worked closely with. And the thing that I don't have now that I had then was the just the sheer fact that there was a machinery around what I was doing. And when I'm solo, I am the person, you know, I'm the guy in my business.
And so I'm planning my content. I'm figuring out how I'm going to record it. I'm writing, scripting, researching, shooting, editing, publishing, social marketing, you know, on top of everything else, you know, in the podcast world or whatever. It's just, it's, it's all you know together. You're the intern and the CEO at the same time. Yeah, absolutely that.
And so I have a deep appreciation for the fact that, you know, it at both of those previous places, I always had a team that I could just, I could literally just write my script, you know, tell someone I need time in the studio. I need 20 minutes to record this. I'd have someone, you know, behind the deck recording it and doing video switching if needed, someone running a prompter if I needed that. And then when I was done recording, I kind of walked away.
And it was like then magically that, you know, it's not magic at all. It ended up in someone else's hands and then someone else's hands. And they, they drove that to the finish line. And I was then relieved to start focusing on the next thing that I was gonna do and going independent. Like, you know, I mean, especially in the beginning when you're not making much money, you can't build up a team, you know, quite yet. You can't support a team.
It's all on you. And what that really does is that really impacts the amount of stuff that you can do. You know, I have so many opportunities and so many ideas, but I can't do them all because I just don't have the time. And that that's disappointing to me. I want to do them all. That is one of the biggest challenges I face because I have no shortage of ideas of like, oh, that would be cool. Oh, that sounds interesting.
But at the end of the day, you have to say no to a lot of things if you want to build a successful channel just because you have to focus on one thing and do that really well. Otherwise, yeah, you, you you kind of get lost in the in the new shiny object syndrome. Is there something that you were taught as a, I'm just going to say, journalist in this machine that you really felt very strongly about and that shift
that once you went independent? I think the thing that has really stood out for me is the value of knowing how to market what you do. And it's also the the element of my professional career that I had probably the least involvement with, you know, like almost everything else I had somewhere along the line, some sort of involvement with it. But when it comes to marketing, when it comes to choosing, these are the clips that I think are gonna work.
These are the platforms that I'm gonna spread them to. This is the text that I'm gonna attach to it to make sure that the right keywords are there and you know that right hashtags and I'm adding all the people and it's different in every place because they all format things differently. And then, you know, podcast swaps and, you know, podcast appearances, booking appearances.
I mean, it's the marketing side of things is just something that I was not really brought into the process on over the course of 20 years. And the kind of disappointment that I have around that is marketing is so important. Like like I could launch my AI inside podcast as I did. I think I launched it last February in 2024. And immediately out of the gate, we had reasonable numbers for a, for a new podcast to launch, right?
Because we had this built up fan base from Twit when we were kind of kind of building the show and Twit gave me, by the way, permission to take it and do my own show with it. They were very gracious with that. And when we launched, we had an immediate fan base, which is amazing. And then over the course of the next year, we just kind of continue doing our thing. And I mean, the number just kind of stayed flat. And that's just because like, I don't know how to market it.
How do I get more eyeballs and not just the baseline people who already know who I am sort of audience. And I think that's part of how why I see YouTube to being such a, an important part of my strategy.
Because one thing I've noticed is YouTube does a really great job if you play the YouTube game right, which I don't think necessarily means you're, you're, you know, playing a tricky game or trying to, you know, trend, trend Jack or whatever they call the, the keywords or anything like that. But there are ways in which you can approach YouTube to where at least your, your video finds another audience or a secondary audience that gets, you know, extra exposure.
And in podcast, I feel like that's a lot harder. You kind of have to know someone at a, at a podcast network, like like I, you know, Apple podcast or Spotify or whatever. There's a lot of relationship things happening there that I, I just was not Privy to. It's, it just wasn't part of my job. And learning that has been a real challenge. I wish I knew more about that. I'm learning more about it. No, no doubt about it. But it's still, it's also just not my favorite part of the job.
Like I would so much rather just create content versus have to market it. Yeah, I mean, it's what you said earlier. It's like hell, I can just sit down, record for 20 minutes, half an hour, and then hand it off to somebody else and magically a show comes out at the end of it, right? That is. Air quotes magically right? Because the people doing that work are like, there's nothing magic about that, dude, I did all that work. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
But like it's, it's a very different environment, a different mindset. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yeah. Yeah, 100% is. What is Jason doing right now in like a regular week? So first of all, my biggest achievements this year is buying a whiteboard calendar. And I'm not even kidding. Amazing. I am so much more organized now that I have a whiteboard calendar. It's, it's kind of ridiculous how the analog approach is so much better for me than any of the digital solutions I've used
on a regular weekly basis. I have 4 podcasts that I record between Tuesday and Thursday. And then if I'm doing my Tech Exploder podcast, which is really like a nostalgia show, what that leaves me with is kind of Mondays and Fridays are the open days and air quotes because they're never truly open. It takes a lot of time. It really does.
To do it effectively, to do it to the point that it deserves and that it requires, it takes a lot of time and sometimes I don't give it enough time and I think it suffers because of that. You open and so many doors that I would love to explore. It's already amazing to see some similarities like the whiteboard, the I. I also keep Mondays and Fridays completely blocked off for myself. More so and Fridays especially. It's just like I write my newsletter and I'm done.
That is all I have to do on Friday to keep my sanity. But in this almost year and a half that you've been doing it by yourself, have there already been some kind of success moments where you like that kind of kept you going, where you say, okay, yeah, this makes sense. There's I can see, I can see the light at the end of the tongue, the kind of situation. One thing that I've realized is that there are flash points in my production cycle that suddenly happened that I recognize now.
I got to be, I got to have my ducks in a row to be prepared for that. I know in the technology world that I've frequent, you know, Google has its Google IO conference every May and Google invites me to go every May. And I know that when I go, there's going to be multiple opportunities for me to do so. It's almost like their tent pole opportunities, right? Earlier this year, Samsung invited me to go to the Unpacked event and that was my first time going to that. And I saw that as an
opportunity. Like what can I do around this moment to really capitalize on the fact that like I'm there and a lot of people don't get the opportunity to be there. So how can I like bring them into it a little bit and show them what it's like to be there? You know, as far as specific moments, I mean, I'm kind of coming or kind of in the midst of one right now. Because on AI Inside we had like a world renowned AI expert, Yan Likun, who's the chief of AI at Meta. Amazing.
And you know, if you go on YouTube and you search for Yan Likun interviews, you'll see 200K500K like his his interviews get a lot of attention, right? And I do it on my little AI show and it's like, you know, 8090 a hundred. I'm like baloney. Like there is no way that we have Yan Likun on this podcast and this doesn't catch some steam on YouTube if I'm doing my job the way I probably need to do to play the YouTube game, right?
Another example of this was I was I was in Barcelona for Mobile World Congress. Yeah, like a month ago or whatever. And I was on day one of the, of the show floor being open. And I have my, you know, my, my little tripod with my Osmo pocket three that I've got laying around here somewhere. And I went to this company's booth called Techno and they were showing off this
ridiculously thin smartphone. And I just super quickly threw together like 10, you know, little notes on a smartphone mounted that next to the Osmo, plopped my Osmo down and recorded a, a vertical like 52nd. Like I'm here at Techno with the, the spark slim and I'm holding it up to the wide angle lens. And I'm just reading through the notes that are on the other side of the lens and everything. Publish it on Instagram, Tiktok, YouTube, Don't even think about it.
Just move along with my life and you never know when those opportunities happen, right? Because this video for whatever reason, for whatever confluence of events, be it timing, location, trend, you know, the thin phone trend, whatever it is or a combination of all of them, it's now a 2.1 million on Instagram. Amazing.
And I've never had that before. And in one video, my follower count on Instagram jumped from like 1000 to I think I checked today and I think it's right at 8000, which is weird. Like it's really weird to have one video do that. I've never had that before. But I bring this up just to be like, you don't know when those opportunities happen, but once they do, how can you accentuate? How can you really kind of or, or what can you learn from them when they do?
Because you know, and in the Orbit community, you know this as well as I do, I've been kind of like with the community scratching my head like, why did that do so well? What was it and how do I recreate that? How do I learn a lesson from this opportunity and walk away from this? Not just with 7000 more followers because that's fine and everything, but I want to do more. I want to create more potent content and you know how can I do that?
Talking about scratching your head, I feel like some people might discover your channel and look at it and be like, wait, this guy doesn't even have like 10,000 subscribers but he's getting invited to all these events. Like that's unfair. How is that possible? You know, whatever other feelings might come up, but how have you managed to get this kind of access?
Is this due to your, you know, long standing industry experience or have you made some other kind of inroads that allowed you to start very very strong and with the very unfair advantage compared to some 20 year old who wants to start a tech YouTube channel? I think that's exactly it right? Like I when I started my YouTube channel, I wasn't starting from zero, even though the subscriber count said zero, right? I had been doing the, I've been creating relationships in the
industry for 20 years. And so as a result, I got my hands on hundreds of products, you know, at Twit. And this is kind of part of the reason, you know, this touches on what we're talking about earlier where, you know, I look at my time at Twit and I can go on there and do a search for like Jason Howell reviews or whatever. And I see all these products that I either remember or I don't remember anymore because there's been so many of them.
And you know, I look at the view counts and like 450,000, you know, 500,200, eight, 80,000 or whatever. They're all over the map, but I do that and, and I'm like, OK, so then I know how to create content. I know how to create a YouTube channel. I just don't know how to create it for myself. And that I think is the real big differentiator for me from, from someone who's just getting into it, is that, yeah, it's, it looks like I just started, but I, I didn't, it's just, I just
started this thing. And you know, for anyone who's looking to kind of build those relationships, I mean, it really is just a matter of, you know, doing what you can with what you have. Building to enough. And I don't know how you define enough, but building to enough where you feel comfortable reaching out to some of these companies and just saying, hey, you know, I wanna, I wanna, I'm a big fan of your product and I wanna give it a review.
I'm happy to return it when the review is over, you know, give them, give them many reasons. And also, I think what's really important is tell them what they get out of it. Not just I'm, you know, I'm really excited, I'm really experienced, I'm really good, I blah, blah, blah. They also want to know kind of what they get out of it. Do they get access to your viewer base? You know, like, how can they benefit from it too 'cause really, at the end of the day, it's about how they gain
exposure. And I mean, I think you'll be surprised at some point. You'd probably be surprised when that company that you thought was unattainable says, OK, we'll send you a device, here's the agreement form. You have to send it back in 30 days. Just do your review and send it back. And yeah, then you get that access. Yeah man, I know that sounds easier than it probably is, but that would be my advice. It's easier and harder at the
same time. But I fully agree with you that it is about having the relationships and building some kind of rapport or trust with somebody that you want to work with. That brings us to one of my kind of core topics. And that's like the whole aspect of community and having people around you supporting what you do. Because for 20 years you had a team, people around you who facilitated making content for
the Internet, right? And then from one day to the next, you kind of doing it all by yourself. How did that feel? How did you manage the first couple months? From a workload standpoint, it was really, really stressful and it was a lot of doubt because I there was also a lot of excitement. I have to be honest, it was really exciting to launch AI inside, you know, my, my very first fully independent podcast that I owned and controlled. Amazing.
I think once the dust settles a little bit and you get like, I got like 8 episodes in and I'm, I'm not seeing the numbers increasing and you know, like it kind of felt a little hamster wheelie and feeling a little alone. Even though I have a Co host, Jeff Jarvis, my Co host on AI inside. He's amazing. But there is no person sitting behind me that I can every once in awhile tap on the shoulder and exchange ideas and, and
everything. So from a from a work standpoint, it felt pretty isolated and the the 20 years leading up to my being laid off was all about building community buzz out loud at CNET. You know, that which was the first podcast that I really was super into, integrated into was possibly one of the best communities that I've ever
worked with. But one thing that has happened that I am so eternally grateful for is there have been key members of the community that are so invested in seeing me succeed and want to follow and support everything that I do in whatever ways they can that they've stepped forward and they've said, hey, we know you're starting out. I've I've got experience in this aspect of your business. I do it for my job and I'm willing to help you out and I
don't need to be paid right now. Maybe if you blow up or whatever, you can pay me later. And you know, I could be part of like the, the payroll of whatever it is. But for right now, I just, I can see how I can help you achieve your goals. And I think the challenge there, like it's amazing, right? It's amazing that people are willing to do that for you. And I, I recognize how, how, how much of AA position of, well, how just grateful I am to be in
that position. And not everybody has that right, But what that empowers and, and allows for when something like that happens, it's, it's hard to plan for. And, you know, I've had to work through my own kind of sense of of kind of guilt, a little bit of guilt associated with that. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to trouble someone else.
I don't want to burden someone else with the things that I don't want to do. But if I say no, then I deny them the opportunity from their perspective of helping someone who actually matters to them and helping someone in a situation in a way that matters to them. And so I've really had to kind of come to terms with myself and just be like, no, you're not burdening anyone. They've reached out. They've said they want to help you, and that's OK.
Like, it's OK to welcome help when help comes, you know, knocking on the door. And so that's been a big piece of work for me. That is such a amazing story and and like also such a proof of like what it can enable once you put yourself out there. It's just like you attract the right kind of people. So. Oh, man, I, I get goosebumps just just listening to you. But one other aspect then why we even know each other really is because you were one of the first members in the Orbit
community, right? Yeah. And that's right. What we're trying to build there is like an online Co working space for people who work independently in primarily YouTube, but like in all the social medias. And how how has that experience been? How has that helped you on your journey? I would say that it's done what I hoped it would do. It satisfied the roles that I
really hoped that it would. And I'm, I'm really kind of looking forward to the community growing and building because what I really needed, you know, kind of touching back on what we were talking about earlier, it being an independent solo creator can be at times a lonely existence. And it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking like I'm the only person that can solve this problem. And so I just got to buckle, buckle down and do it without
reaching out for help. You know, I don't want to burden anyone else. These are all the voices that I have in my head at times. And with a community like the Orbit community, it's very much everybody's there for a very similar reason. We're all just looking to be better in what we do, yes, but we're also looking to be support for others. And you know, to it's a give and take. It's a push and pull, absolutely. And you know, sometimes I have to remind myself to check in on it.
I'm really try and do like a daily check in and everything 'cause I don't want to just be a taker. I want to also offer my advice and insight. And something that comes along with that too, is when when I force, not force, force is the wrong word, but when I really kind of buckle down on offering insight on something that I might not be 100% on, Like if someone in the community says, hey, this is my thumbnail, what do you all think?
And sometimes I'll look at it, I'll be like, gosh, I don't know how I feel like about that. You know, I could choose to not respond or I could choose to respond and kind of talk through a little bit of kind of where my mind is AT and thinking. And what I've noticed is in doing that, I start to kind of sharpen my perspective on how I really feel about these things. And that in turn serves what I do for myself and gives me ideas for what I do for myself. So it's been really beneficial
from that perspective. It's really nice to when I have a question or, or a thumbnail that I'm not certain about or, you know, I, I recently did my first collab experience with a friend of mine, Shannon Morris and be able to share some of the successes too and be like, hey, check it out. This thing, you know, took off and I'm so proud of it, you know, and get the, get the Pats on the back.
That feels good. Too. OK, so first of all, I'm happy that you enjoy the experience that you get something out of it. Second, this moment of like, you just sharing what you know in the comments has been such a growth tool for myself because I've been active in a variety of communities. And just like taking this time to express your thoughts or sharing your your own lessons in these these common threads teaches you so much about yourself and makes you spot
patterns and all those things. And very often my comments start with a premise and then as I write, it's like, oh, wait, there's a whole nother aspect to this. So yeah, I really, I really love that. But let's put a little bow around this whole conversation because one thing that comes through very strongly is something that you keep repeating. It's like this. Do what you can with what you have. And that's a motto I follow very strongly. It's just like, figure out what
is enough for you. And so I'm, I'm really curious to ask you this question at this stage in life. What is success to you? What does success look like to you right now? I, I think success for me, yes, involves earning a living right. Like, you know, I, I would say I'm not quite there yet. I'm, I'm, I'm further along now than I was even six months ago. Thankfully, it seems like things are trending upwards and that's that's a good thing.
Not everybody has the, you know, has the privilege to last this long making not very much at all. And I don't even know how I'm still doing it, but I am and my wife's been amazing through it. But at the end of the day, I'm gonna make a I'm gonna make I'm gonna earn a solid living for my family to where I feel like I'm contributing to our bottom line.
And I'm going to enjoy the fact that I'm doing it for like I'm, I'm building up my own business and building up my own value around that instead of doing this for someone else. And it before the last couple of years, I think if I had thought about that a couple of years ago, before I even considered going independent, that would have really scared me. And the idea of having no solid footing. And, you know, it's just really, really kind of diving in and
seeing where it leads. Like that's just not how I've lived my life up until recently. That's a very kind of scary, kind of frightening thought. But I think the gold there is the more that I do this, the more comfortable I feel stepping off into nothingness. Yeah. And that's what they say around entrepreneurship in general, right? Is, is that, yes, it's scary. No, there are, there are no certainties.
And even when you fail, you still win because even your failures define what you do next and where you go from there. And I, I can feel that now in me, I've, I can, I can admit that I've, I've failed in certain ways in the last year and a half almost, but they don't, they don't make me want to stop. They, they actually tell me, OK, I've done that and I'm building to an even better version of
myself. And yeah, that's, I think what keeps me going, what keeps me really, really driven where I'm at right now. So normally at this point I ask for advice of how to get started for somebody who hasn't done anything yet. But I think in your case, it's more like if somebody is later in life and has this itch to create something that builds wealth for them, but they haven't had the guts to do it yet or the circumstances or whatever, what would you tell them to just get started?
I mean, I, I'll tell you one thing that I would tell them, don't quit your job and go into full time YouTube production. Don't do that because like there's no quicker way for you to fizzle out and overwork yourself and not see the results that you expect you're going to see. You know what I mean? It's just, I think in hindsight, well, I've got, I've got 2-2 pieces of advice. One, don't do that if you can. Keep working your job for as long as you can, building this up on the side.
See how much you can build out of it to get you to the point to where it makes more financial sense for you to leave than it does for you to stay at your job. And I realized that, you know, again, that's one of those pieces of advice that's like, well, you mean I can't do this now. I really want to do it now. It's like, well, you could do it now. And then you're either going to burn out or you're going to not make, you know, as nearly as much money as you think, unless
you get incredibly lucky. You know, it's just not a, a smart way to do it. And then in my opinion anyways. And then the second thing that I would say is if you're telling yourself you can't start because you need all this money to buy all of this equipment and you don't have it yet and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Really at the end of the day, the equipment doesn't matter. When I went independent, I, you
know, had had my severance. So of course I was like, well, I'm going to get that camera, I'm going to get that thing and blah, blah, blah. And I went on a spending spree. And I realize in hindsight now I record so much of my footage with my phone and because it's just easier or my Osmo versus my really nice camera lens that I'm looking in right now. Now I'm getting out on the field and I'm just, it's almost like a run and gun approach because it's easier and it's refreshing
and it's not quite as mental. I don't have to like overthink it or whatever. You have what you need, Just use what you have and get started. And then the more you do that, the, the sooner you start, then the sooner on the calendar that you can look at and be like, well, I'm, I'm further along here versus getting to that point and looking back and
wishing you had started. And that I think is, I think at the end of the day, if you, if you're considering it, you just kind of got to do it. And your early stuff's going to suck. And that's all right, because nobody's watching. But eventually people watch, and by that time you're better. I couldn't agree more. This was such a beautiful conversation. If people are really curious now about you, where can they find you? What's the best way to stay in
your orbit? You know my primary go to it right now is my YouTube channel. Just search for Jason Howell. You'll find me at Jason Howell on YouTube. Amazing, thanks for the chat. Thank you, this has been so much fun. I love talking about this, so thank you for giving me the opportunity to do that with you. Oh anytime man. Like this felt like 20 minutes. Like easy.