Live from the show floor of Watches and Wonders 2025, this is Open Work, a podcast from Collective Horology. I'm Gabe Reilly, co-founder of Collective. And I'm Asher Apkin, co-founder of Collective. But we really... quite literally, are on the floor of Watches and Wonders. We are buried in the bowels of the show floor as far out of the way as we possibly can be to record this.
But we're here, and it's our second day here in Geneva. We've had a ton of meetings. We've seen a lot of people. We've seen even more watches. We've been to Watches and Wonders, Time to Watches, the Beau Ravage. We've been all around, and this year feels different. It does feel different. It feels different because I'm not wearing sneakers. I screwed that up. Why aren't you wearing sneakers? Haven't you learned anything? It's style. I'm a sucker for style. In all seriousness.
This year, and I mean this in the best possible way, this year feels like the show and reality are overlapping an event diagram into one perfect circle. And that is your lack of sneakers, except for my lack of sneakers. That is a reality you've not accepted. No, no, I screwed that one up. But you're right. Yeah. And I think and you pointed this out to me earlier today.
Sometimes, in the past, when we've had meetings or we've been speaking to brands that we are considering working with or just checking in with, etc., And I think we mentioned this on the pod last year that when we were on the show floor, that sometimes it can take a fair amount of time for the marketplace's reality to make its way into.
the business conversations that are happening here. And we're seeing that now. And that's good. That's really, really good. Because what that means is that brands are now not only being... thoughtful about things like pricing and production, they're really thinking about how they can be directly connected with the retail networks to be able to actually meet what demand is there.
And then think about how to scale it as opposed to where they had been in the past, where they were still building for a market that wasn't exactly where they thought it was. The way I would sum it up is like I think in past years and it's changed. We talked about a big shift in this last year, but I think reality has fully set in. There are much more realistic expectations of the market and in particular of what.
customers can bear and what retailers can bear. And so just to give like a few examples of things that we would hear in the past versus what we hear today, pricing is a great. Great example. You know, brands, I think in the past, what we would hear from them is they wanted to be ambitious with their pricing. They wanted to move pricing up. And that is not just.
in a cynical way a lot of times it had to do with supply chain and inflation every business wants to be more profitable but they're sure but i think that the response of the cynic and the pragmatist is oh well they just want to push up prices for price positioning or whatever some of that did happen but now what we hear is much more thought consideration explanation of and furthermore
an attempt to be as aggressive on price as they as they can. You know, what we've heard is we want to we're willing to absorb some currency fluctuations. Tariffs is obviously we talked about and and to some extent brands. Sounds like they're willing to make some some concessions on tariffs and in terms of swallowing some of those costs themselves to keep pricing as reasonable as they can. Now, obviously, we need sustainable businesses, but pricing.
is an area where I think brands are being realistic in their expectations. Well, they're not just being realistic about it. They're also, and maybe this is part and parcel that you're describing, but they're also, I think, focused on the implications of pricing on brand.
And just the overarching, I'll give you an example. If a watch was priced at X and that watch is now X plus one, X plus two, or, you know, two X, three X. That implies or that impacts how somebody would necessarily perceive that brand as too expensive, not expensive enough providing value.
not providing value, changing too rapidly in an aggressive market. All of these things are factors of a brand in as much as any other element. But previously, I think folks, to your point, were thinking about, well, how do I grow that?
I think what you're saying is true. What I also am hearing, I think I'm taking more of, and maybe this is me just hearing what I want to hear, is that brands are being much more understanding of... sentiment collector sentiment around price increases and wanting to be aware of that being aware of the fact that prices did do nothing but go up and also more importantly being aware of like
The fact that the watch market isn't what it was in 2022 and overall, globally, people just aren't buying as many watches and wanting, therefore, to price their selves into. into it, price themselves in a way they can be successful. So pricing is one example. I think another example is just on production quantities. You know, again, I think what we'd hear in years past is brands really trying to shoot the light out, shoot the lights out on.
production runs on limitations going big. And now what we hear is that brands want to be conservative. And if they're doing something as regular production or limited production, they want to be... They want to be conservative. They don't want to overproduce. And again, that ends up when they do overproduce, putting pressure on retailers and all sorts of other challenges.
Those are good things to see. And there's a real and palpable shift. There are many other examples of what we could give. But I think we went from a world where I think for 2020. three in particular and a little bit into 2024 there's just a little bit of denial or wait and see and i think what we're hearing now is like no we're in a new paradigm for the watch market and we're going to and we're going to navigate it and that's
Good. So let's take that and let's look at some watches that I think are indicative of strategic shifts for some brands or strategic opportunities for some brands. So I would love to talk for a moment just about the Land Dweller.
I don't want to. What is that? I don't know. Some some company launched it. I don't want to talk about the watch on the merits. I think, you know, putting aside land dweller exists, we can accept that. But what I find interesting about it. Yeah. So what I find interesting about it strategically.
is how Rolex has taken advantage of a problem, right? What is the problem that Rolex fundamentally has? The problem is that people want... stainless steel sports watches they want the professional line and rolex understands that if they increase their production of that it has a dynamic it will dynamically change their entire market right if you over produce something that is already in high demand if the
meets the demand then you might actually see a cooling off in that area we talked about this a few moments ago now what has Rolex been doing well Rolex has been pushing people who are interested in stainless steel watches towards the Datejust line. Thing is, though, the Datejust line, while it offers many of the, I think, feature set that you would generally get from a professional line, it's waterproof, it's stainless steel, you know, it's an everyday wear.
it's still not a professional watch. And if you want it pedestrian, it's also a bit dressier. I mean, the simple reality, that's an interesting way. I mean, if you want to sub and someone says, here's a Datejust.
Kind of feels like you went into a store and said, I want jeans. And someone's like, well, how about some suiting? It's just, it's not. Yeah. And I also think just from like a hype standpoint, it just lacks some of the shine of the professional models. A hundred percent. You know, it's more readily available, all that sort of stuff. Totally. So what the land dweller does is it kind of elbows its way into the line. So now it's creating space.
in between the professional line and the slightly more dressier, maybe one might argue more fussier version or version of the same that still watches the Datejust and creates this new segment. And what you have now... is a watch that is not quite sporty, not quite dressy. It's got design cues from earlier eras. It's got some Oyster Quartz vibe to it.
It has some credibility and opportunity to it with the brand new movement. It's much thinner than some of these other pieces. It's got that new Rolex shine to it. And what they've done now is they've managed to find a way to sell more watches that people want without necessarily cannibalizing other lines. But the thing that I, if I summarize all of that up. basically what they did was they did the cubitus better.
Yeah. And that's an interesting point. I'm not sure I care for the land dweller. Now, that has nothing to do with whether it was a wise strategic decision or if it's a good move for their business. But I think. Because of that, and I'll admit my bias there, I think because of that, I'm a bit skeptical about it from a business standpoint. Every watch.
is met when it launches many watches are met when they launch with a lot of fanfare and hype and interest and and calls to calls to the dealer i think you know we know this from the world of doing
a lot of collaborations and limited editions, you're never going to have as much interest in a watch as the day you launch it and the week you launch it. What will be interesting for me to see with... the land dweller is whether this thing really has legs it is based design wise on a watch that went away and went away for a reason And it is also positioning itself into a trend in the market, which is integrated bracelet, stainless steel.
sport watches i think waco had a great description of the watch and i think he's a fan of the watch but he had a great description of the watch as a sport chic watch yeah which it felt right to me as a way of describing the watch from the perspective that it feels a little bit like it's playing into a trend in a moment in time. And I just don't know in two years, three years, five years, if this thing really will keep running. I don't know.
Yeah, I'm a little less skeptical of that, largely because Rolex is somewhat immune historically from some of these things. Like Rolex is its own ecosystem unto itself and operate markets. Exactly. I hear that, and I think if this were anybody else, I would be more in agreement with you. But I would also say that this sort of elbowing the line apart move is something that we're seeing.
throughout the show. I'll give you another example on a much smaller scale of an awesome brand and manufacturer that is has made space in their line for something new, but for very different reasons. And that's what we just saw a few hours ago at Resonce with their new GMT, or I suppose technically dual-time sports watch.
That has now sort of elbowed its way in price point wise and also functionality wise. Yeah, you could argue it's a similar, similar, not only a similar, similar genre of watch and integrated bracelets, you know, stainless steel sports watch. Yeah.
But it's an interesting move from a portfolio management standpoint. Yes, from a portfolio management standpoint, totally. And doing what we do in our general proclivity and interest in general, I find that watch way more interesting than the Land Dweller. But you're right. If we think that watch is cool and we're into it, then theoretically we should think that the land dweller is just as cool and interesting on similar merits. I think what these two examples are showing, which is, you know...
I think a good thing is a reaction to a marketplace need by looking at what people want and trying to find a way to do that in the language of the brand. So what we saw here from Rolex. was a way to meet demand for sports watches that met their own needs, which was not overproducing in those other categories. What we're seeing from Rezance now is a way to bring other people into the brand.
who maybe are looking for a specific aesthetic, but that didn't exist there before. So they're finding space in their line for new clients to meet a new demand and a new interest. That's really, really, really cool. it's i can't express how difficult this is for brands to do too no you're you're right and it's it's like kind of the cubit is done right for for rolex that's what i said yeah no no i'm saying you're right i i agree and i you know
there are trends and then there are mega trends. This is something that I learned in my advertising career. You know, trends come and go, but then there are mega trends, which are these broader, longer term trends that sit above them. And I think... The stainless steel integrated bracelet sports watch is not a trend. It's a mega trend. And I see in our client.
conversations and the things that people buy they are just as interested in that genre of watch today as they were a couple of years ago yeah it's not going it's not going anywhere yeah so So pivoting over to a slightly different topic, which I think is also really interesting. And again, this is another thing that you pointed out to me that I find.
fascinating i'm curious how this is going to play out over the next few years so here at in geneva during launches and wonders like the core has traditionally been the show that we're sitting in in the pal expo which is this I can't even fathom how expensive this thing is to produce. The production value here is, it's out of control.
You can look at photos and it doesn't even do justice to the level of detail. You and I have been to plenty of corporate events and trade shows in our life. And this is on another level just in terms of sheer production value and expense. Yeah. And a lot per visitor. And that money, by the way, doesn't come from nowhere. That money.
comes from not only the participating brands, but also of the Foundation de Roteurologie, the FHH, which is the organizing entity behind it. And if I'm not mistaken, Richemont also has a stake in the FHH, which is who funds the show.
easily, easily tens of millions of dollars this show. I mean, it's ridiculous, not just talking about the physical infrastructure of it. It could be well pushing $100 million. It would have to be if you consider at least from what I know production. Yeah, the room buyouts.
travel, things like that. Yeah. So we're talking a monumental amount of money to produce this event, which arguably is worth it because it's spinning off all of the business from retailers and then obviously press and the rest. But anyway. Over the last few years, because the show has limited space and is extremely expensive for brands,
to participate in. I don't remember exactly what the square footage costs were, but I think it's fair to assume that if you're a small brand in the Carré, for example, in the Independent Hall, you're paying probably around $100,000 just for the square footage before you even do your build-out.
just to give people an idea. And if you're a massive brand, you know, I'm looking right now, for example, at the Chopar booth, that's tens of millions of dollars. Oh, yeah. And we were talking about this earlier. This show isn't just here for a week. The build out of the space, given the production value, I mean, they're...
building full on buildings and rooms within buildings that they're probably setting up here month, maybe months in advance. Totally. I mean, this is this is a huge, huge investment. So anyway, all that to say. There's always been spillover that we've seen, sometimes downtown at the Beau Ravage of Gabe Riley being thrown out fame.
You were thrown out too. Yeah, but I'm going to blame it on you. The Hotel d'Angleterre, for example, other hotels downtown. And then this new show, which I think is about three years old now, called Time to Watches. I feel like I can't control my tagline, by the way, speaking of, I think you're about to bring up the, the poor transliteration English, but the tagline for the show, which is kind of a dig at the, at the pole expo watches and wonders is think.
Out of the box. Which, for those who have never seen a picture of the Plexpo, looks like a giant box. So, now, Time to Watches, as a fair, used to be about a 20-minute... cab ride away from this fair, which made it extremely challenging to draw clients over who weren't already intending to go there. This year, they moved to a building that's two minutes, two minute walk. Oh, less. I mean, you can.
Truly a stone's throw. Yeah. Pretty much anyone could make that stone's throw on any day. Yes. Maybe 100 yards, 100 meters from the Plexpo. Which is a shots fired kind of thing. And, you know. For me and for Gabe, it's great because we have brands that we work with who are at Time to Watches like Fears and Ming, for example. We can just go between the two. Yeah. So for us, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. But for the perspective of the FHH, for example, I could see how they would say.
oof, this is a little rough. You're freeloading. Kind of, because the hotel room that I'm in right now is paid for by the FHH. And I'm going to meetings next door at Time to Watches. Exactly. So I can see why that would be hypothetically... an issue, and I'm wondering how that's going to play out. The same thing, by the way, that we saw— Well, there's two ways to look at it. Well, hang on. I'm not done. And did you notice how when we were at the Beau Ravage today, it was an organized fair?
There was signage down there. Oh, the Beau Ravage has gone from a few brands renting out suites to the entire hotel is rented out to brands, and it is an organized, produced event that happens there. So that's on the level of time to watches. I'd say the production value is interchangeable. Totally. And when you when you consider that, like that, you can't say that that's just like somebody who's.
who couldn't find space or couldn't afford it because we know what it costs for somebody to be a time to watch us. Yeah, it's comparable. I don't know about comparable, but it's still... quite expensive. And I know what it costs for somebody to be at Beau Ravage. So people are still spending tens of thousands of dollars just to have a small table in there. So all this is to say, there's this very interesting dynamic here now where... on the one hand, independents have more options.
Those options make it easier for retailers to be able to invest in independence, spend time with them, and to do business in a more efficient way, which from our perspective as attendees is great. From the perspective of the fair that has essentially invested what they have invested. into the Canton of Geneva let alone the financials that they invest for the folks that are here
I see a potential brewing behind-the-scenes drama. For sure. I mean, we joked about our experience getting kicked out of the Beau Ravage at Geneva Watch Days, but what was happening there was there were brands who had paid to exhibit at the show. Hotel didn't want other people doing business meetings in the hotel in that context. You expand that mindset across Geneva and now you get the mindset where if you're the FHH, maybe you don't want time to watch is setting.
up 10, setting up their show 100 yards from the Plexpo. But I think there's a bigger way to look at it. There's certainly that way of looking at it. I think what this points to is a much broader phenomenon, which is... watches and wonders is now the industry moment and trade show and these things are only happening these problems are only happening of these ancillary shows
Because of the success of watches and wonders, if watches and wonders didn't succeed as an industry moment and temple, none of that stuff would would be happening here. So I would say. If they, you know, and they won't, but if the organizers came to us and said, what should we do about these ancillary shows popping up in Geneva? They're, you know, riding our coattails.
That's a good thing. That means you've succeeded. You've done something important and special for the industry. And by the way, while it is true that you are paying for people's hotels and then they're taking meetings in other places. These other brands and these other events are drawing people to Geneva and they're keeping they're keeping them here. They're helping to keep watches and wonders overall relevant and vital. And that's a good thing. It is a good thing.
You know, it's interesting. I was also talking to some brands about the evolution of Geneva Watch Days, which, you know, has its roots in this sort of like... reaction to covid and a desire to to bring people back together when everybody was was so forced to be apart also something to do the opportunity to do something that's a little more scrappy and less organized more casual well yes and
or yes, comma, but, as you would say, it is now evolving into its own thing. Now, I think we will, if we ever get to a point where we need to be credentialed, for example, to attend Geneva Watch Days, I think we're going to... it will kind of have jumped the shark. I don't think we're anywhere near that, but I'm sure we're closer than, than you might imagine. I hope not. I mean, because I have credentials though, but I do feel that.
That would make that show a lot less special than it really is, because part of, to your point, what makes Geneva Watch Day so unusual is the fact that it is loosey-goosey relative to this, and there is a much more relaxed feeling to it. which you know for the kinds of brands that we work with
I think is far more ideal. You can spend more time with people. It's in the summer and it's way more breezy. It's not quite as organized. There's more of a party feeling to it relative to this, which for all of its intense production value is. Still very much a business trade show. And people are here, as we have today, to buy watches.
So I do wonder if we'll if we continue down this path, if we'll ironically see a little bit more Geneva Watch Days moving into watches and wonders where there's, you know, a little bit more flexibility. different spaces that are, you know, still working together. And then a little less Geneva Watch Days at GWD and more watches and wonders where it's a little bit more formal. Things are more tied together. You need permission to participate in it. You know, I don't know.
This is cultural. It doesn't really impact the business of it. But I do find it fascinating to see how these two shows are sort of one is becoming a little bit more like the other and vice versa. Whether or not withstanding. Yeah. And I think there's a role for having two trade shows a year. It's helpful for us to have those two touch points with brands. All right.
There are new brands who have joined. We walked by both. I mean, and it sort of reorganized the space, but there are new independent brands. There's a larger carry to Zorrologere. With a few new independents, Bulgari has now joined the show and has a major, major booth where there was another exhibition space for smaller brands as well and still conspicuously absent.
is the Swatch Group. And not only are they conspicuously absent from Watches and Wonders, but they are conspicuously absent from Geneva this week. So as we talk about Watches and Wonders gaining momentum... and becoming the destination. Is it only a matter of time until we see some form of presence here from the Swatch Group? Because I'd have to imagine.
Most of their retailers are out here anyway. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know how I feel about this watch group. I'd love to say that it had something to do with their incredible strategy, but I think that you'd have to wake them up in order for that to be true. You know, let's be honest. I mean, this is what someone pointed out.
It's the 250th anniversary of Breguet. But it's Arnold and Son that's celebrating it. I mean, like, so I don't think it has much to do with, like, the strategic thinking of the Swatch Group so much as their own sort of, like... you know, belief that they don't need to participate in this. Now, let's flip that around and play the devil's advocate role there. Devil's advocate role there is maybe they are smart. Maybe they're not asleep at the wheel. Let's give them some credit. Maybe they are.
Maybe they realize why would they spend let their let their competitors spend, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars on this while they sit back and then swoop in with an announcement three, four weeks from now. That may very well happen. Here's the problem, though. To me,
It might make sense from a marketing standpoint, but it's deeply alienating for the industry. Yes, I couldn't agree more. Because not only do you have retailers here buying watches, you have media here, you have everyone who works in the industry. So it's not just a... Come to Watches and Wonders and wholesale a bunch of watches. It's come to Watches and Wonders. See your industry colleagues. See who else is around. Check out.
products that maybe you wouldn't have seen before because you're seeing them now in person due to some form of serendipity. They're missing out on all of that. Yeah. And that's so years ago when I used to work at Apple, for example, people used to mock us because we didn't go to trade shows because we wouldn't we wouldn't participate. We didn't do booze.
And the thing is, though, we were there. We just weren't exhibiting. And there was this theory that was around that like, oh, well, if we just go. We can still, you know, culturally be there. We can still interact with people. We can still like have those relationships without having all the attention that a trade show gives you money, you know, aside. I don't see Swatch Group people here. Now, it doesn't mean they're not here. But when, generally speaking, when you go out at night, you know.
If you go, for example, to the Grand Duke, right, which is like a, you know, just like a sort of a dive bar, an awesome dive bar, British pubby kind of thing where people end up at the end of the night. You will bump into people who work for Rolex and Tudor and Paddock and, you know, just as you will, you know, people who work at any number of independents or what have you. I've never met a Swatch Group person there. Now, putting aside, you know.
the sort of kicking them a little bit. I think it says a lot about the corporate culture that they don't want to participate because it can't, it's not just about the money. The Squatch Group has billions of francs. If they wanted to participate this week, they could. And they're not even doing the kinds of things that Breitling did, right? Like Breitling for years used to always have an event like a couple of days before, which was, I think.
One could say, oh, they were scooping. No, they weren't scooping. What they were doing was being smart. They knew that their retailers were flying in. So why not just talk to them a couple days before? Deal with it then. Have their full attention before they go to the show. It's very clever. Yeah. And in that sense, I don't, I viewed it as participating.
In a sense, yeah. Breitling is another one who stands out by standing apart. You did raise an interesting point around the Swatch Group, which was...
Well, there are a lot of watches being launched. There is a saturation of information. And I think that's the kind of the final thing I'd like to end on, because this is one of the first things I told you. Asher... wisely took a vacation a week before watches now i can't begrudge him that it was his kid's school holiday so that's it you know it is what it is as we say but It was well-timed. It ended up being a brutal and grueling week.
Because most of the brands we carry who launched novelties for watches and wonders decided to do it a week before the show. And they weren't alone. Now, there was obviously a ton that came out this week, but there were more watches that came out. in the two weeks before watches and wonders under the guise of watches and wonders novelties than i've ever seen before and the number of novelties is becoming unmanageable, I think, for all of us. You know, there's a certain joy in
You know, the Rolex fanboys certainly still do this and Patek waiting for the first day of the show to roll over the clock to turn over and all the novelties to get released. But instead, what we're getting is this trickle of information or. brand seeking to sort of preempt this so they don't get lost in the noise. And I'm not sure it's having the desired effect. It feels like too much for too long. Yeah.
You know, I was thinking about this after you brought this up earlier today. And the truth is... I feel like it's always been that way. And maybe you and I just notice it more as people who are doing the work around it now. Yeah, we have more work to do. Yeah. Because if you think about it, this is Watch Christmas, right? Mm-hmm. And...
I remember and I mean, I'm just seeing it now. My phone keeps going off. I think I'm getting text messages. I'm not. It's just a dinky dinging my phone because they're trying to, you know, do their best to parse out announcement after announcement after announcement. And they're not even scratching 40 to 50 percent of what's being announced.
One of the things I'm noticing by walking the halls here and seeing novelties from so many brands across the spectrum is how many things are not being covered. Totally. So I think for you and for me. And good stuff that's not getting covered. Totally. And I think for you and for me and more for you last week, you know, it's just a lot harder when you're building all the launch materials and the product pages and all the things that are involved with, you know, doing a launch.
What I do think is interesting, though, to your point, is not the volume of it, because there's always been a lot of watches announced at SIHH or Basel or whatever. I think it's how it's trickling and slowly moving deeper and deeper and deeper. It's what people complain about with, you know, Christmas and the holidays, which is they seem to start like the day after the day after Halloween. That's a bit of what's going on here.
Black Friday sale starts the day before Black Friday. Oh yeah, our Black Friday sale starts the week before Black Friday. Exactly, collective Black Friday event starts tomorrow. Our Black Friday starts the day after Black Friday. It's a bit of that. And I don't know.
Yes, there's you're right. We have to separate ourselves out from as the people doing the work about the implications to our workload. But I don't know. It just doesn't feel special. I think it's I think. All right. So. If we look at how this actually was working strategically, we saw a lot of releases in the 10 to 14 days prior to Watches and Wonders, because most independents figure, rightly so, that as soon as major brands, mass market brands, start announcing things,
the Tudors, the Paddocks, the Chopars, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Those brands will suck all the air out of the room, and attempting to get any sort of public relations attention during that period of time is a fool's errand. I don't know that they're getting much public relations air cover the week before watches and wonders anyway. What choice do they have? People are traveling. A lot of things that I've seen a lot of watches that have been lost in the mix because...
I don't know what choice they have. Yeah, you're right. I don't know. I mean, the choice. I guess the question is, Asher, congratulations. You're now CMO of Watch Brand X. How would you handle launching your novelties? And by the way, Watch Brand X is neither. Rolex, nor Tudor, nor Paddock, or...
And any of the aforementioned large brands? I mean, I think it's one of two things. I think you either do what everybody did, which is, you know, fall into the find to try to find a slot somewhere in that 14 days prior or hold your releases until after watches and wonders. One of the best things that Watches and Wonders did for us last year, and I haven't seen... Actually, we've seen plenty of this ourselves this year, was...
For us, just the opportunity to see from brands what's coming the rest of the year. Yeah. Because that allows us to prepare and that allows us to do a better job of helping them launch their products. Yeah. And, you know, I don't I don't know. I think, you know.
Some brands I'm seeing maybe are doing this a little bit cynically, which I think is both savvy and cynical. It's like they'll have a sacrificial lamb for watches and wonders, which is like, I kind of know I have to have some news. I have to have something. But I'm not necessarily going to launch my biggest or most interesting or critical product during this time frame because I'm lost to these other brands. You know what it is? Part of the challenge, I think, of these events.
is that you're marketing to two audiences at once. And that's what makes it really hard. Because think of it like this. Let's say that you're WatchBrand X and you have a launch and it's scheduled for June 15 or something, right? You're really only marketing that. to consumers, right? At Watches and Wonders,
So you're doing two things. You're servicing, you're announcing a product to the consumers who have the brands, pardon me, the retailers who already carry you. And you're putting it in the hands of the industry. Correct. So it's not just a PR thing, but you're also trying to bring in... In many cases, new doors, new retailers. So there's a B2B and a B2C message. And that's just very hard to do at the same time. Because the message to a retailer...
and the message or a wholesaler and the message to a consumer are very different. And trying to nail that B2B and B2C strategy at the same time while everyone else is doing it, that's just, that's extremely challenging. And it's fascinating. And you see that, right? Like think about the times that we have approached a brand about opening them or an interest in opening them during watches and wonders. And they're like too overwhelmed to have that conversation. Yeah.
Yeah. Which is, of course, hilarious because they're always too overwhelmed, but it does plant the seed. Sure. I'm not I'm not saying that there isn't like an opportunity. My point is. We're here as retailers to buy watches, right? So you would imagine that this would be the primary purpose of the trade show. But we all know that it isn't because we walk by how many like television crews every two seconds. So the message here, like this event.
while the people who are in attendance of it are predominantly industry, is very aware of the fact that it is being produced for the eyes of the world. And that puts so much attention there when in reality, the people are actually plunking down the money to buy the product here or in the room. Yeah, I think that's my final observation of this. Every year we come here, we see more and more and more content.
being shot, recorded, created. I mean, look at what we're doing. On premise, we're an example of this. And... watches and wonders is in fairness better than than most other shows that happen but like across watches and wonders time to watches and even at the the boervage and these other places i think they need to
have more resources and facilities available to people creating content lighting is a huge challenge recording audio here is a huge challenge we're like i said we're literally on the floor of the show there's nowhere quiet for us to record we're sitting at a table in a sort of like a restaurant area, cafe area and at the whims of whoever decides to walk by screaming into their cell phone or whatever bottle breaks in the cart rolling by. You can't blame them because that's what the space is for.
Well, sure. They're doing their work, too. But I do think you're right. This show is not only a show unto itself. It is a content machine. And I think it would be great if there was more attention paid to that and more resources available to people who are making things. Well, before we wrap, what's the most interesting watch you've seen so far?
We're only two days in here, right? And we're going to be here in essentially another three days. We saw this morning a brand, an Italian brand called Laboratorio Gaga. And... I had seen the watches. In fact, I'd even held one of their watches before, but I never took the time and the care.
to really sit with them, to look at them closely, to photograph them, which when you, you know, you photograph something, you pay attention to it in a different way. And then, of course, meet with the brand, the owners, the designer and creative director of the brand. And that was a really eye-opening experience. I would encourage people to check out these watches. They are incredibly beautiful and thoughtful design objects and interesting from a time-telling standpoint.
But it's one of those watches where the more you dig into it, the more it gives you, which I just found incredibly exciting. Yeah, that watch is awesome. For me, I am shocked by how much I am in love with the Zenith GFJ, which we just got to see a few minutes ago. Yeah, I saw press photos of that watch, and I was like, okay. Yeah, I had the same feeling. It didn't really speak to me. And then we saw it on the wrist of a friend this morning.
on the strap it's a platinum watch but then we got to see the watch on a platinum bracelet which is made just for this reference unreal It was striking. Yeah, the finishing of that watch, the dial, the lapis dial. The lapis and mother of pearl dial. Yeah, and mother of pearl sub dial, blued. Adjusted. Just talk about a beautiful object. Yes, and a resurrection of a classic movement there, too. The irony, and this I think speaks to the previous point, is I think that watch...
I don't want to say got lost in the mix, but I don't know that the spotlight is shining as bright on it as it deserves to, given how awesome that is because of all the announcements and other messages in market happening right now. Absolutely. And when we spoke to. the Zenith team about it, we were asking them, you know, like, which watches are doing well for you at the show? You know, what are the retailers interested in and taking orders on? And...
That watch was essentially number one. And by the way, forget about on the bracelet, just on the leather strap, that's like a $40,000 plus watch, I believe. Yes, 50 something. Nearly 50. And then when you do it on that platinum bracelet, it goes over $100,000. And it's a lot of platinum, man. It's a lot of platinum, but that's a lot of watch. And for that to be the thing that the retailers are the most excited about. I mean, if I was a Zenith retailer, I'd want to stock that. Well, sure.
But I think it just speaks to what a compelling watch it is. Yeah, 100%. You wouldn't guess that the $100,000 platinum watch would be the thing that they were all clamoring for. Well, it caught me off guard, not because I don't expect... good work from zenith obviously we love zenith but it just it had a level of of elegance and nuance to it romance yeah that i don't
I was very struck by it. I had a real strong emotional response to it. And there are a handful of watches out there that do that when you first put your hands on it. And that one... That one really did it. So hat tip to Romain and the team over at Zenith for that one. Absolutely. That was a treat to spend time with. I got some great photos of that watch. It's absolutely beautiful.
Asher, if you'll humor me, going back to the point of so many watches to get through. Yeah. So many watches that don't get the attention they deserve. And frankly, the need to make some more and better content out of the show. Would you join me for a special episode after the show is done where we go through not necessarily our favorite watches, but I think what we would call.
the unsung heroes of the show, the things that we saw that we thought were the most interesting. We don't usually talk about watches on this show, but we're spending five days doing nothing but looking at watches and checking out some really interesting things and things that just aren't breaking.
through and getting attention. So if you'll humor me, let's, on our way out of Geneva, record a bonus pod of our 10 most interesting watches from Watches and Wonders 2025. Absolutely. I'll tell you my top five variants of the Land Dweller. All right. Well, there you have it, folks. Thanks so much for listening. This, of course, is Open Work. It's a production of Collective Horology. You can find us online at collectivehorology.com and to get in touch with your questions.
your suggestions, and your feedback, please tell us if you think there are too many watches being launched this week. You can do that at podcast at collectivehorology.com.