Yvonne Smith, Abduction Therapist

Oh Radio. This is Open Mindes Radio here again your host, UFO paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome to Open Minds Radio. This is Alejandro Rojas and we have another great show today. If you were concerned about last week, you know, we're supposed to have retired Major George Filer of the US Air Force, and unfortunately there was some technical difficulties, which is pretty strange. His cell phone just wasn't taking calls. It was

some sort of strange anomaly, so we had a problem. Luckily, I think we had a great show. Still. We had Antonio June and we were able to talk about some of the latest news, including the French and their releases of UFO information, the Brazil what they've been doing lately with their UFO research, and then we were also able to get into some of our stories from the magazine, such as the foreign abduction cases. So I love the show. I thought it was great. It's always good to have Antonio

on because he's a wealth of knowledge. However, this week we have Avon Smith and Avon Smith has been an abduction researcher for quite some time. She's been in the business for a long time. She began researching the UFO phenomena in the eighties and in the nineties, after two years of studies in the thousand hours of an internship, she received her certification from the California Hypnosis Motivation Institute. In the nineties, she expanded her practice to include abductees to assist

them and encourage them to work through and cope with their PTSD. So we'll talk about that, and then many of her subjects were referred to her by physicians and psychologists, so you know, she's got a great reputation working with this sort of stuff. She also found it an organization called the Close Encounter Resource Organization organization which maintains active monthly support group meetings, so they have meetings

with where they bring in different speakers and things like that. So we'll talk to her a lot about that, because she's going to have Stan Romanett coming on soon to speak out there, and she's real excited about that, and that's one of the reasons she called me to be on the show, So which is great because I've wanted to talk to her for a long time, so I'm excited about that. Of course, we've got our new time here. We are an hour and a half now with no commercials except for our

own you know, little promo things. Those don't count though, because they're not off topic weird and they're not like these real conservative conservative Laura Slashinger type of stuff. But the new time is exciting because it's longer. We also, of course can be seen on video at Openminds dot tv. So go there and go to the radio tab, and we've got a chat where you can talk to us. There's also chatters of course in the blog talk and if you have any questions, you can go in there and ask them and

we will ask them of our guests. So thanks for joining us on this holiday weekend the UFO conference. Also, I should talk about UFO Congress. I want to tell you guys that you need to register early to our UFO Congress coming up here in February February twenty third to the twenty seventh. And why do you need to register early because we really have limited hotel rooms.

We're taking over this beautiful resort in the Fountain Hills area. I think their actual address is Scottsdale, but it's actually a little out there in the desert. Beautiful place out there, and the entire hotel is going to be ours. It's upscale, but not upscale prices, so you'll want to get your room there. The pricing is a little higher than it was in Laughlin, Nevada. But these rooms are, you know, beautiful, and you can share rooms too. If you have some buddies that you want to share a

room with, that's fine. Maybe fit twelve thirteen. I'm sure that there's enough wor space too if you got creative fit possibly two dozen people in one room. And you know, it's one of those things don't ask, don't tell type of dill. So come on to the conference, bring all of your buddies. There's also campgrounds too, and you can find out more about this at Ufocongress dot com. Now, the day before the conference, what we're going to be doing. Some of you may know that there's a film

fest it's called the Ebe Awards that go along with the UFO Congress. Because we've shortened the congress a bit and we've got a lot of activities happening in the evening. What we've done with the film festivals, we're having a day of film watching the day before the conference, so This is where the hardcores who want to see all the documentaries and who want to judge these documentaries. You can stay here all day to watch these things and then judge them.

And then during the conference every night we're going to show the best of the fest. We're going to show the top three in every category, so you're still going to see the top movies. So it's going to be a lot of fun plush. You'll be able to make some of the events we're going to have. We're really excited about the SkyWatch that we're going to be doing out there. The night skies out in the desert, of course, are

beautiful. You can see the mill if you weigh and everything, and we're gonna be having some night vision goggles and equipment where you could go out there and look at the skies. And all of this is after something that Fort McDowell always does. And Fort McDowell, as I've mentioned before, is on a reservation, so they have some Native American storytelling and some guys stressed up like cowboys and stuff out there, and they're serving hot dogs and beer and

stuff like that, and you will go enjoy that before the SkyWatch. So we're really excited about that. We're really excited about the whole event in total. So come and join us at the UFO Congress Ufocongress dot com, and

of course you can also find out more at openminds dot tv. What else you're gonna find out at opensmind dot tv is that not only a bunch of really cool stories that we write ourselves on a regular basis, but a lot of the news and the headlines through conventional media throughout the world that are talking about UFOs, and people all over the world are talking about UFOs. And as usual, today we have our news correspondent, Jason McClellan right here sitting

next to me in the studio to tell us all about it. Yo, buddy, greeting Zalajandro and Hello world. This is your open Minds news brief for Labor Day, Monday, September six, twenty ten. A couple weeks ago, I mentioned how some UK travel agencies are starting to market UFO tourism, where they encourage travel to locations that have either had a significant UFO incident

in the past or that are currently experiencing frequent UFO activity. Well, last week, the website io nine published an article that offers another suggestion for UFO tourism, a road trip to Europe's UFO memorials. This proposed trip includes two memorials, one in Sweden and one in Poland, fifteen hours away from each other. In nineteen forty six, a hockey player saw a UFO land just outside of Angelholm, Sweden. A monument was built to commemorate the sighting,

and it features a scale representation of the UFO. In nineteen seventy eight, a UFO allegedly landed in Emilson, Poland, where two small green humanoids abducted a farmer. The memorial was built in two thousand and five to remember the events. We have an article on a dot tv about this case that Antonio wrote, Yeah, the second one. And it's cool because if you look at the article, we also have some comic book pages right that were done

on this case, and it's an interesting case. I didn't know about the Swedish one though. That's pretty cool, and it's cool that they would build a memorial for a sighting. I mean that one was just the siding it was an abduction, but yeah, that'd be cool. If every sighting we could build memorials, we'd have site memorials all over. There would be memorials everywhere. It would look like UFO City, And that might be more worthwhile

for a road trip. Yeah, because then you wouldn't have to drive fifteen hours to the next memorial. Yeah, we've just got Roswell and then all these other weird things. Here's an update to a story we reported last week. Images captured by a hunter's motion activated camera in Texas contained an odd string of lights, which many thought could be a UFO well. After investigating the photos, Texas Mutual UFO Network Chief Investigator Fletcher L. Gray determined that the

lights in the photos were simply the result of camera malfunction. According to Gray, for an unknown reason, the camera's shutter was staying open, and when the infrared strobe would fire, the camera would capture the bank of lights. Strobe had fourteen led bulbs. And that's how many lights. How many lights appear in the photos. Yeah, it's weird how that can happen. But I think he really figured it out because you know, fourteen and when you

look at it, they do look like tho little led bulbs. So he figured out and it made a lot of news before he figured it out because that it was big news, and looking at the photos and hearing the person who owned the camera described what was back there. There weren't any roads, there weren't any buildings, right, and looking at these things that looked like they were floating above the trees. They were really cool photos and you couldn't

really tell what it was. But the bank of led lights makes a lot of sense and always oriented the same way in the same number. Yep, So I think he figured it out. Yep, good job out there. In a recent poll conducted by sixty Minutes in Vanity Fair, there are more Americans who believe in ghosts and UFOs than there are people who think Sarah Palin would be an effective president. I thought that was kind of a funny pole. Yeah, that's really well they pulled that out of there, but I

think that's what they were shooting for with the politics stuff. But thirty percent was their number who believe in UFOs, which is a little lower than their latest poll. Right, And some of these poles, the more informal ones, are a lot larger than that, but still, thirty percent is a lot of people. It is. It's one out of three people, and there all seem to be a lot of these polls done in the past couple of years, at least more happening, and the number seems to keep going

up. Well, this one went down a little bit, but it's still a lot of people. Well can you expect much from Vanity Fair, Yeah, exactly. Residents of Darwin, Australia's Northern Territory want to hold a UFO conference and start a push to have Darwin named the UFO Capital of the World.

The area has become a hotspot for UFOs and in fact, one of our news stories last week it was about Northern Territory UFO researcher who, after thirty years of searching, finally saw his first UFO and humphy Doo, which is right next to Darwin. Darwin. Thinks that UFO spotting could become a tourist attraction and if they do manage to put together a conference there, they

plan to offer free parking for UFOs. Oh. Perfect, that's very nice of them, because I don't know if they'd cash in if they tried to charge anyway. I don't know, but I know that's something that our conference doesn't offer. So, oh, you're right, we maybe so they advantage.

Yeah. Well, and NT News, I think it is the website or the has that and that they've been posting quite a bit of UFO news they have and after reading this story and the story from last week, apparently they do have a lot of sightings and a lot of people interested in UFOs there, so they really are going to push to have a conference in Darwin. So that would be great. I mean, it's wonderful that all of

these countries in fact to bring up the magazine again. Our next issue, we've got article on exopolitics and international and actually we're going to have another one on this soon. But I mean internationally, there's a lot of groups starting up and a lot of conferences. You went to the Barcelona or did you? I did not conference, so I think our boy and there were a lot of people there. So it's getting more popular all over the world.

So it's cool to see Australia. It's definitely cool to see the international stuff. But we talked about the UK a lot. Yeah, but Australia has been in the news a lot more lately. Yep. It seems like we've talked about a lot of Chinese planetary astrotum or Wankichao in the past week. Well, this week, we've got a different Chinese planetary astronomer to talk about. According to Zoujin, the curator of the Beijing Planetarium, aliens exist but

have yet to visit our planet. He says that with a trillion planets going around fixed stars like the Earth around the Sun, the possibility of our planet being the only one with life is slim. He doesn't believe in UFOs because he doesn't think it's possible for beings living in other galaxies to travel the great distance to get here. He did, however, state his opinion that the

best way for us to contact extraterrestrials is with radio signals. Interesting, Well, he's kind of towing the line of a lot of astronomers even over here. I mean the whole SETI thing. But I think he's underestimated with a trillion. I think there's more like ten gazillion. Ah, that's a lot. I haven't counted lately. Really, Well, I had a lot to do this weekend. It was a long weekend. Well, then i'll take your estimate gazillion gazillion. You might be overestimating there, but if he counted,

I'll trust you. Yeah, all right. There seems to be a debate going on in the UK about the frequent sightings that have been occurring in Halifax and Calderdale. We've been talking about these sightings a lot lately. The Evening Courier says that readers have contacted them to report seeing people in the area

releasing Chinese lanterns. Many witnesses, though, are fully convinced that what they have witnessed could not possibly be Chinese lanterns, because they demonstrate movements that seems to be propelled very rapidly in one direction and then into the other, and

straight up and straight down, blinking lights changing colors. Well, and I mean, like you've noted, these Chinese lanterns can come in various different colors, and it makes it easy to call something a Chinese lantern because a lot of sightings are lights in the sky, and then it's easy for people and unfortunately a lot of people just want a prosaic answer so they can just write

it off and they don't have to think about it anymore. But in some of these cases, right when you look at the details, there's a lot more going on than just some little lantern floating around in the air right, but it continues to make the news week after week. Yeah yep. Here's an updates to another story from last week about a triangle shaped UFO that allegedly crashed just outside of Fresno, California, Just to recap for those of you

who haven't heard about this yet. On the evening of August twenty first, a triangle shape UFFO reportedly crash landed on a mountain side just outside of Fresno, California. A family observed the crash and immediately called Jeffrey Gonzalez, the

California State Section director for the Mutual UFO network. Gonzalez couldn't access the crash site because it was on private land, but from a disadvantage point, he saw unmarked vehicles arriving at the scene and something that resembled an arc welding light. The next morning, Gonzale saw scorch marks on the mountain side as well as a sting ray shaped craft. Since reporting this story last week, the

video taken by Gonzalez has yet to be released. He claims that Muffon has been in possession of a copy for more than a week, and days ago, he claimed that he was going to upload it to a friend's computer. Also, Gonzalez has recently commented that he thinks the craft was actually removed by the military before his arriving that evening, which would contradict his previous statements. So who knows what's going on with this story? In who knows if we'll

ever see a video? Well, I hope we do, and it could I feel like I think maybe he looked at the video and or what he thought he was videotaping looks stingray and then later it didn't really come out in the video, or he noticed it was something other than that. If it was at a great distance, it's hard to make out even a trailer sitting there. You know. It supposedly was at a great distance and it was next to some sort of shed or shack or something that was operated or own.

We could have noticed it was a trailer and he missed he misread it the sun reflecting off the side. So we'll see, hopefully we'll hear something and he'll tell us what he thinks are something about this video. It'd be great to see the video, you know, even if not to see the craft, if that isn't actually there, see the activity of the night. Yeah, the welding light and the vehicles arriving right, see a lot of activity and possibly make out if it what the heck might have been going on.

Right. We'll keep our eyes on this story and bring any update as we get them. And a UFO landing pad in France welcomed his first UFO visitor last week. Kind of. UFO port officials had a local artist build a fake UFO to entice real UFOs to use the landing pad. The landing pad was actually built back in nineteen seventy six primarily to attract tourists, and it does approximately twenty thousand people each year visit this UFO port nineteen seventy six.

So all this news lately about people pushing UFO tourism, it's been going on for a lot longer than just this year. Right, that's pretty cool. I mean I'd love to go check that out. And it makes sense. I mean, how are they they supposed to know that this is where they're supposed to land, and if you don't make a little UFO there's to show them. So when their cruising around, they oh that's where we land.

It's land next to that one right now? I couldn't find a picture of the actual UFO, so I don't know what what it looks like or what they used for their inspiration, but that could also affect who they attract, I would imagine. Yeah, that's true, because they're flying around, they see all of our cars and our shifts and everything. Yeah, how do they know this thing is supposed to be one of theirs. Yeah, hopefully it's one of It looks like one of the good guys UFOs, just

in case there's bad guys out there. It's playing with fire there. I think it's taking a wild guess with UFO to put down there. Yeah, hopefully it works. That is it for the news. Remember to check out these stories and more at Openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. Your Open Minds News correspondent, Jason McClellan. And you've been briefed. All right, Thank you, Jason. And you know, we never run out of news when we're putting together news for this show because there's just so

much of it. And you can go to our website, like I said, and we post news on pretty much a daily basis unless it's a weekend. We even do some weekends if we've got a lot, and of course, well we're a little late on today's news since it's been the holidays and

we've been off messing around or taking it easy. But we'll have some news up later because there is some interesting news speaking of China and all the Chinese news, the People's Daily, which is the popular Chinese paper out there, they're talking about another UFO sighting, and there's even a video that was posted

by some reporters of this UFO and it does look very strange. At first, you think maybe it's just that Venus or right now Jupiter is really bright in at least the Arizona skies just after dusk, but this thing is, you know, kind of changing colors and then it sits there and it seems to even transform its shape. So it's a great video. We'll have that and the news story posted very soon here after the radio show, So check open Minds dot tv for that. Other things that you're gonna find this week

on Openminds dot tv is this is an exciting one. This one. I'm really excited about the Rockefeller UFO briefing document. And if you've heard some of my prior interviews with Antonio Juneis. We've talked about this and Lawrence Rockefeller, one of the Rockefeller Airs, one of the brothers, had put together well paid for different UFO and paranormal research. And one of the things that they did, which he was probably you know, he was excited about and he

used it often was a UFO briefing document. And I mentioned Antonio because Antonio was one of the writers for this briefing document. When you look at the cover, you know, he's one of the three people who are listed along with Don Berliner, Dan Berliner and Don and Mary Goldbraith, who is actually the wife of a diplomat. I mean, these people were well to do, society type of people, and she helped because she knew Lawrence Rockefeller put

this thing together. Once they put this briefing together, Lawrence Rockefeller had sent it out to his friends, most notably the Clintons, Mister and Missus Clinton. He was working through Hillary Clinton's office to get Bill Clinton to look into

UFOs. And according to Grant Cameron, who runs PRESIDENTIALUFO dot Com, and I think his scenario seems the most accurate that then Bill Clinton did try to look into UFOs using this evidence that was put together, and during the Clinton years is when the Air Force came up with these Roswell explanations of what they thought was going on with Roswell, the Mogile balloon, and that the crash test dummies situation, which of course many field does not fit the evidence to

the whole Roswell situation. So it's a great document that has all of the best evidence. In fact, that's what it's called the best available evidence put together. Anyway, it was pretty private. Rockefeller only did like a thousand

of these and sent them around. Of Course, some of the organizations that helped put this together, such as move on FU for the fun for UFO Research Research, and KOUFOS which is the Center for UFO Research, which is the group that was put together by Jay Allen Heinek, the astronomer who worked for Bluebook. Anyways, all of these organizations had some copies, but for

my own use I had put one together on PDF. And it just so happened that Antonio and I were talking to some of his buddies and the current representatives some people who actually helped work on this document. Men are document for those other organizations, and we asked, you think it'd be okay if we posted this online, because really it's a great document and everybody needs to see it and use it for their own reference. And they said sure, so

we've just put that up online where you can download the pdf. Some great cases. Those of you who have been in UFO research for a while will know these cases. But there's also a lot of quotes and quotations. In fact, some of the websites have taken all of these quotes and put it on their website, but you'll see it all here in its original format.

And it's just very interesting that this is something that Lawrence Rockefeller put together and this guy was, you know, not some black sheep of the family. He is noted for helping start the whole Silicon Valley and funding and being a banker to help create all of ent actually the computer revolution. He was also a philanthropist, though he also did work on different things and donating Rockefeller money to organizations to help the planet. So really cool. We're really excited about

that. You'll also see a small story and a link to UFO nut dot com because Checksukowski are good. Buddy has had another cattle mutilation in the San Luis Valley area. This time it was a horse that was mutilated. And this is kind of a sad story because not only was his horse mutilated, there were also some other strange, anomalous physical effects to the other horses that were at this ranch. And these horses have emotionally suffered over this thing.

You can tell they are traumatized. The brother of the horse that was killed is very protective over the body and letting people near the body. So Chuck talks about how he had to gain the confidence of this horse. But it's really sad that these poor horses have been traumatized and mutilated, and all of these animals. It's very disturbing what the heck is going on out there with

these cattle mutilations. So you can read more about that. We of course have all the information that Jason brought up about the Triangle UFO in California, and we also have more case files. So as you've noticed, probably we have been posting some of Michael Strat's research with Koupos, the organization I had

mentioned earlier, and all of their UFO files. And he is a draftsman, so he puts together these reports into his AutoCAD and then make some three the renderings of what the people had seen, and these accompany his story. They're great pictures and they're great renderings. It's cool to see, you know, what these people were talking about in three DM, to see all of these strange, unusual shapes that have been reported by people. And these are

not shapes that are often or always in great distance from the witness. Some of these shapes and objects have been seen fairly close to the witness, so they've been able to get a good look at this object. And he's put that together and all their descriptions. So and that was a KUFOS files, which is a center for UFO Studies. That's why I paused earlier because I can remember the last word, Center for UFO Studies. KUFOS a great organization

that no longer really runs. Instead really move On is the one investigation organization that is doing all of the work out there. And that's why they call move On the mutual UFO network because it incorporates a lot of other organizations at work. In the past, everybody decided, hey, let's work together and figure this out, and that's what they've done. So we are going to talk to Vonne Smith in just a couple of minutes here, let's go ahead.

We're going to take a short break so we can get Vonn on the line, and then we will be back talking about abductions and her work with abductions. And I'm really excited to talk to her because she's been in this for a long time and she's a wonderful lady. So stay tuned. We'll be right back after a couple open minds messages. Probably mony Anniversary of the International UFO Congress coming to its new home with the Routits Inport mcjowley Zorton Casino

with cut till Arizona. This is the premier annual event for UFO researchers, enthusiasts, and the general public with an interest in mysterious phenomena. Come listen to expert epologists, officials, and respective scientists presenting information relating to the UFOs, extraterrestrials, crop circles, abductions, cover ups, and more. The largest UFO conference in the country. Twentieth Anniversary of the International UFO Congress explay

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an online destination worth visiting frequently. Browse the store today at store dot openmind dot tv to see the latest editions. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now, former official spokes person for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of open Mindes Radio, Alejandro Rojas. All right, welcome back everybody. This is Alejandro Rojas, and I want to give a special thanks to one of my coworkers, Maureen, for coming in on the holidays. I mean,

she is looking pretty. She looks like she needs more rest, So thanks for coming in even though you're having a hard day on this holiday. But we have another special person on the line right now, Yvonne Smith. Are you there, Jim, Thank you for having me on. Alejandro, Well, thank you for being on. You know, I've wanted to have you on the show for quite sometimes, so I'm really excited to have you on because you've been doing so much great work for so long in this field.

And you know, I know you are going to have Stan romanex soon and we'll talk a lot about that, but I would like to get some more background on your work also, and I guess I'll start off with the question, when you started learning hypnotherapy, was it with the intention to help abduct these It was not really with the intention there, because when I it's just so, you know, it's so difficult to you know, think about

how the path led me here. But when I began studying hypnotherapy, I realized that hypnotherapy is used to help so many different, uh you know, issues and types of ailments that people go through. Especially I was very interested in working with cancer patients, which I did when I was with at the IT where my college was located, as well as post traumatic stress disorder. And so when I began I opened up my practice and I began working with

PTSD issues. People were starting to talk about their UFO experiences, and I, you know, began receiving referrals from other therapists because they they really did not want to handle anything having to do with UFOs. They just were not

going to stick their necks out there. But I began working with PTSD victims and I realized when people that were describing encounters with UFOs, they were describing their their stress and anxiety, and it was it was all the same whether someone had suffered from a car accident or a you know, an encounter where the UFO will say abduction. The symptoms were the same, you know, trauma. Trauma is trauma, and you know, no matter what, people

need help. So I didn't realize at the time, though, how how the work with with UFO experiencers were just going to really take over my practice. I mean it just began to snowball. And before I knew it, I was asked to lecture, and I began doing print interviews for local newspapers. And because you know, people were intrigued about about this, you know, encounters, and and then and I began close encounter resource organizations. Oh

my god. I mean the press were very interested in that because they're thinking, well, my gosh, if you started felt like you needed to start a support group, then there must be a need for it. And I said it, you know, I explained, it's it's the same as any other support group that you've ever attended or ever heard of, but we're dealing with USO encounters. How did you first come across the whole concept of abduction.

Well, my it's funny enough. My mother several years ago, you know, she she read about well back when it was a Life magazine featured an article I'm Betty and Barney Hill, I believe it or not. I remember coming home from school and she said, look at this, you know, look at this article. These people were had an encounter with a UFO or maybe she at the time she's a flying saucer. I don't think they

call it UFO at the time. This was in the sixties, and you know, time went on and she was aware of, you know, different researchers and so forth, and she wanted me to go with her to a lecture by Bud Hopkins. At the at the time, I believe it was

the Whole Life Expo in Pasadena, California. Wow, neat. So your mom had an interest, She had an interest, and she knew who Bud Hopkins was, and so you know, I accompanied her, and you know, I met him and thought it was fascinating what he was talking about. And then the next thing I know, I was I took my son to a bookstore. He needed to do some research for a book project in school.

I happened to be walking around the books or and I came across this very unusual cover of a book, and I didn't know what this was. I picked it up and happened to be communioned by Whitley Streeb. So I, you know, read the side jacket there of the book and bought it and read it in two days, which was amazing to me because I never read anything in two days, and I guess it was just, you know, it was my path, you know that that I was to follow in

this work. And you know, from then I that I read more and attended my first conference in Las Vegas. It was the I believe that one was the Mufon Symposium and it was in Las Vegas. I forget what year that was. It had to be late eighties, you know, had to be a late eighties. So that was my first introduction to a conference,

which was again very interesting. It's funny you say that too often, you know researchers in this field and sort of they reflect back and they think, I don't know how the heck I am where I am, or you know, they don't think, wow, that they would be someone that would be in the middle of an issue like this. But even though they're not sure how they got where they are, that that, you know, many have

a compulsion to still continue doing what they're doing. Yeah, it's a you know, I guess it was, you know, if you want to call it fade or destiny. For whatever reason, I was led to, you know, open up my practice to the encounter's ufl encounters, and I guess, and I'm really glad it led me that way, because there are so

many traditional therapists that will not touch the subject. They're afraid of losing their license and they're just not going to put their neck out of the topping block, you know, And that's really unfortunate, right, And I've spoken to many of them. They want to remain anonymous. I do get referrals from the traditional therapists like psychiatrists for instance, because there's there's still there's an area there that they're unable to tap into, and they feel that they're their patient

is best served by referring them to someone who specializes in this work. Right. Which is one of the things in this field that I think is most unfortunate, especially with the denials official denials, is that these are people who really need help. Like you had mentioned, they are suffering from PTSD and there are people who need some sort of help. Oh absolutely, And that's why that is The big biggest reason that I started close Encounter Resource Organizations.

Zero is the acronym, because you know, these people were leaving my office and not realizing that they had no one to talk to about what happened in their session or something occurred again. They were many times I'd be able to talk to their spouse, uh family members, certainly not co workers. And

so I started the group which meets has met every every month. It's once a month for people to come together and talk about what, you know, their their feelings and thoughts about all this and all the high strangeness that goes on without feeling that they're going to be ridiculed by their you know, their

other memories of the group. Now, I also have always welcomed significant other spouses, family members because it not only affects the person having the experience and a sex the Ephire family, but we've also learned over the years that it also affects the family in a way where other family members are having experiences as

well. It's the family there, it's not just one person, and that's where you know, I've personally seen families struggle the most is well, if there's just the one person having the experiences and not the spouse and the spouse is having a hard time believing, or if both are having the experiences and one of them is in denial over it, and that doesn't hold just for the spouse. I've seen that with parents and other family members as well.

Oh yes, it's so common, and it really boils down to so much fear, you know, fear of the unknown and fear that you know, this might be real, and that's why many of them will not look into it, don't want to discuss it, you know. I think they they feel that if they if they discuss it openly, it makes it even more real in their world. And you know this this is a very complex issue. And unfortunately, as you know, our own government denies it and they've

had they've they've really been very successful in their denial. Where that's where the the ridicule factor comes in, you know, because people think, oh, I can't say anything, because people are going to think I'm crazy, and that's really unfortunate. And that's why people like myself, researchers like myself, keep doing what we're doing so that we can finally and hopefully bring this out

out of the closet. Per se so that you know, everyone will feel comfortable, whether it's like it's a fighting or an actual encounter, you know,

an abduction. Well, to let people know whysmith dot com is the url for your website where they can learn more about your work and zero yes, whysmith dot com and someone have brought up in the chat just a moment ago, sleep paralysis, and this is something I was thinking of asking you as well, at least in that as far as I know, one difference would be sleep paralysis doesn't seem to cause post traumatic effects, No, absolutely

not. And you know, sleep paralysis has been thrown around by so many the bunkers and you know hard skeptics that they're all suffering from sleep prowesses they thrown us, throw them all under one pot. And my my question is, well, okay, how does this explain people who are not asleep at all? They're driving, uh, sometimes by themselves, many times with other people, other family members, and they see a strange object in the sky, very bright lights, and before they know it, they are, you

know, missing one to three hours in their lives. They weren't asleep whatsoever. People that were in their homes, say reading a book either on the couch in the living room or in their beds, and they they see a light, very bright bluish white light usually come into their home, come into the room. They're they're rendered paralyzed at that time. They know they can't move, but they certainly were not asleep, and we do have to, you know, really think about as you mentioned the PTSD, uh PTSD occurs.

It's it's the effects of a traumatic experience in someone's life. You know. A great example, of course is very obviously the our military going through the war and coming home, they suffered from PTSD. You know, back in when it was World War Two, when they were suffering from this, all the soldiers coming back. You know, we didn't have we had no idea of what what was happening to them. I even I'm not I cannot recall when post traumatic stress disorder that that when that was coined. It could

have been during the the return of our Vietnam death. But it's very real, you know, what people experience. I've worked with many accident victims, people who were abused as children, or people that were you know, sexually sexually attacked, you know, say, are raped. It's PTSD. As I mentioned, it's all the same symptoms, whether it's a UFO abduction or

a car accident. So you mentioned sleep proalyssis no I you know, I know that sleep paralysis, and I know that happens with with someone that there's if they wake up from asleep and they're unable to move, and we just you know, we know that if they move one finger or a hand or you know, it'll break the paralysis. But they certainly do not suffer from PTSD for a long period of time like like another person would. Right. I've had sleep paralysis three times. The third time I was able to break

through it. But at no time in any of those events which I really traumatized at all, I noted it and went back to sleep. Or the last time, I forced myself to move a finger or something and broke out of it like you talked about, But I wasn't traumatized. It was just I don't know, it's a weird state of mind. Yeah, but I've had it too. I've had sleep paralysis. I've not suffered from something in

the room or a life either. It seems that in the episodes that I've had, they've been very few of sleep paralysis it's when I'm extremely tired. I noted that, but the saying here Eljandras, I was not. I do not suffer from from GCSDA. There's there's a dramatic difference. You know. We can't you blanket all these people from all over the world and saying, oh, well, they all have sleep paralysis, you know, or they were all dreaming. This is certainly a physical event, and it certainly

is worldwide. So you know, because when I've traveled and I've lectured in other parts of the world, people come up to me something that that struck a chord with them during my lecture, and maybe saw a slide or two that I that I presented. Many times, these people were are unable to speak English, but they they saw something in my presentation or heard something in my presentation that resonated with them that they they felt that they suffered the same

same type of encounter. Great, what are the symptoms of PTSD? People are unable to sleep, they suffer recurring dreams, They are afraid of a certain maybe a certain area, a certain stretch of road, a certain room in the house. Let me see, I have a whole list of these, but mainly you know, they're able to focus on on everyday life that they keep thinking about, you know, the the incidents. Uh is,

it just affects every part of their lives. They're not able to sleep, they're not able to concentrate at work, and the and the recurring dreams or the very vivid dreams that they have could be an indication that something happened.

So in the steps in dealing with PTSD, it seems as though the steps we're dealing with well other sorts of PhD are similar than with abductions, because I know a lot of my uncles and my father were in Vietnam and suffered through that, and I've seen that cycle as well as working with abductees, and that often even with let's say veterans, they have there's a denial aspect where they don't want to face it, and then they face it, which

can be difficult to begin with before they begin a healing process. Absolutely, it is an entire process. When I work with experiencers, of course, they're very apprehensive at first about know do I really want to know? Maybe I should leave this alone, and they'll they'll leave it alone for a while, but they realize that it's haunting them. They keep thinking about it. They can't you know, they're nable to sleep. It's affecting every every aspect

of their life. So they may then proceed with their sessions, and as we bring up the hidden memories of what occurred to them, sometimes something very obvious is they they've woken up with a strange mark on their body that wasn't there the night before, and they know that it wasn't there the night before, even though it's frightening, because you know, when I regress someone, they relive the experience, and of course I use different techniques whether we can

get through it without them experiencing the tremendous fear or the or the discomfort or pain. But the important thing is for them to bring all the memories up so that we could deal with it one at a time and make sense of it. And eventually when they realize that this was real, they had a UFO experience, but they came out of it. They're alive, you know, they're loved by their families and their friends. And this is when we

start incorporating it into their lives. They not only will have these sessions, they will attend the Eventually the sperial meetings to meet other people so that they don't feel so isolated and that their experience really isn't all that strange because all these other people experience the same thing, so many similarities, so you know, when they meet other people, so it's just it's a process, and

it is a process for healing, and they do heal. And I mentioned when I was lecturing in Loswell, we were talking about we were on the panels on a panel with Travis Walton, Kathleen Martins, who's the niece of Betty Hill. We were talking about obviously abduction, and I mentioned that I have in the twenty years that I've been doing this, I've never had anybody come to me to tell me that they regretted going through the hypnotic regressions.

They feel that they that they did benefit from it and that they were able to get on with their lives and then they met all these other wonderful people that you know, they became friends, and so I really, honestly have never had anybody regret the hypnosis experience. Yeah, that's one thing. I

know. It's difficult for a lot of people to to go in to therapy or to start working on these sort of issues, but it you'd probably agree more important to face it than to keep it shoved away, because it does manifest itself in negative ways in your life if you if you shove it away, Oh absolutely, you could shove it away for for a certain amount of

time, but it will it will start surfacing. It'll surface, and when it gets to that point where it's interfering with their lives, I mean, it could affect your relationship or a marriage, and that's you know, that's unnecessary because there is help out there for people. And I mentioned before, we're you know, we're working very hard to get this out in the open and be able to talk about this freely without you know, without ridicule.

You know, many years ago, and I mentioned this on a talk show one time, people nobody wanted to believe that that parents were abusing their own children. Nobody wanted to believe it. And now years later, there's therapists and support groups and you know, places for children to go to, for

parents to have therapy. You know, it's out in the open. In other words, So I think if we keep working at this, we'll be able to accomplish the same goal of being able to establish that this is real, that people aren't crazy, they're not hoaxing, they don't want, you know, attention, they're not doing this for money. You know, I've heard it all over the years, right, so, you know, and I think I'm just one of those people that were meant to work with this

to help people, you know, get through it. And you know, it's I think it's you know, for me, I've met so many wonderful people like yourself and my other friends and colleagues over the years. I have friends from all over the world. It makes the world a smaller place.

We can travel to other countries, you meet other people, and of course now with our technology with email, we're able to keep in contact where I remember when I first started my practice, Oh my gosh, you know, my phone bills were you know, tremendous because that was before really before we start using email, right. Yeah. And there's still some researchers, as you know, such as doctor Leo Sprinkle, one of the pioneers in this

area, who doesn't have a computer. He still does everything by stale mail. Yeah, that's I know, it's really you know, for some people it's really difficult to move into that into this technology I mean, I was so used to working with my flies and with a fly projector when I was when I was lecturing, and I finally, you know, I have my computer and I'm doing power point. But that was a little scary, you

know, to go to that. But yeah, but it's so I think it's wonderful now that we can keep in contact and people will email me from all over the United States, all over the world. Like just to day, I received an email from Spain, you know, someone who needs help. So it's, you know, trying to keep up with it all is, you know, it is uh, you know, it's difficult at times, and I can't be there to help everybody, but I try to maybe

refer them. But you know, there's still in so many, so many other parts that of even our own country, that there's no one that really does this work. Right. Well, we're going to take a short break in a couple of minutes, and then I've got a lot of questions about

motivations and things like this, behind the beings themselves and their nature. But before we go to break, I did want to ask one thing that seems interesting, and this even came up in the Betty and Barney Hill case, Like you say, these memories are resurfacing, although it's questionable but whether they were intended to or not. And in Betty Hill's case, they told her in her recollection, You're not going to remember this, and she says,

oh, yes I will. They got she got an argument, no you won't, Yes, I will know you won't, and eventually she did remember. Do you think why do you think people are remembering or do you think it isn't intentional that these people are supposed to be remembering these things? Well, they you know, many of them are told the same thing that Betty was told, that they're not going to remember this, especially when they're abducted as children. And I'm sure these being you know, instill a post hypnotic

suggestion in these people. But with the way our subconscious works is it's our subconscious is meant to protect us, so it will protect us from a trauma. But eventually the memories do start surfacing little bits and pieces with the regression. Now it's difficult work because we don't get all the answers in one session or two sessions, and we don't get them all from A to Z. I've worked with people for years. Sometimes session number three will make sense with

session number ten. You know, we're trying to put together an enormous puzzle, but you know, sometimes it takes a while for these memories to resurface. I have worked with people who who had a classic missing time experience, yet they didn't realize they were missing any time until twenty thirty forty years later. Wow. Which is another strange aspect to all this. I've had a whole group of family members stand out on a patio and they're having a little

gathering and they see this very strange light lights in the sky. They know it looks like they know it's not an airplane that's flying very low. And they're all excited and they're talking about this and they're watching this, and then they turn around, they all go in the house, and no one talks about it for years. Yeah. I've interviewed so many families that that happened

to. Yeah. Really interesting. So we'll go ahead, and we're going to take a really short break here, just so we can take a break, depression up and things like that. We'll be back in just a couple of minutes with Evon Smith. Just a couple of messages from Open Minds to remind you about some of the cool stuff we have going on. To stay tuned, you're listening to open Minds Radio. Open Minds Magazine, the exciting

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including sponsorship and vendor opportunities. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of Open Lines Radio, Alejandro Rojas. All right, welcome back to open mind Radio. Avon before we left to go to break, we're talking about people's memories resurfacing, although like we had discussed, they were told their memories wouldn't resurface. Do you think there's points to possibly these beings not understanding us as well as

they think they do, that could know that could possibly be. I mean, we're pretty pretty strong. We all have strong constitutions, and we have very strong subconscious mind. I mean, the subconscious is much stronger than our conscious line. I mean, it makes up eighty percent of our total mind power. So that's why so much gets registered in the subconscious that you know,

we don't remember. I'm all of our lives. We have many computers within us, so things that may have happened in our childhood and I'm not just talking about abduction, but you know, other things in life that we don't quite remember, but it's in our subconscious. So they probably really you know, I mean, they are obviously intelligent beings, but they may not realize how strong we are, and how strong are subconscious is, and how

determined some people are. I mean, Betty Hill was a very determined woman woman as other people are. And they and they realize, you know, this happened to me, and I have a right to know so when these memories begin to surface little by little bits and pieces, you know, people do come in and say, you know, I didn't give permission for this to happen, and I really want to know what happened. So and I'm pretty good, you know, after twenty years of bringing these memories forward.

So and you know, people, as I mentioned before, you know, even if some of these memories or experiences are frightening and really try, we're still trying to make sense of why some of these experiments happen. What are they doing when they take you know, samples of blood sample, skin samples, they want our DNA, you know, what are they doing with it? People become indignant and many say, look, if I would you know, if they had just asked me for my permissions, maybe I cooperate with

them. But I think that determination that we have really really helps bring everything

forward, right, which kind of gets me back. And there's been some debate in the chat, and of course this is kind of a hot topic, is getting back to agendas because there's and motivations behind the abduction phenomena, Because there are a lot of opinions and you've worked with all of the people who are on the front, and all of these opinions, such as Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs seemed to have a similar opinion of perhaps some deception going

on here by the creatures I just put together and it's going to be in our next magazine. An interview I did or some information with Barbara Lamb where you know, all the different types of beings she's experienced by doing these regressions and their motivations, and she has a different perspective like doctor Sprinkle, where it's more very positive that these things, all of these creatures are here to

help us. So there's a wide variety. And then you kind of have John Mack in the middle, who wasn't even sure if these are physical events happening. Where do you fall in all of that? Well, oh gosh, it's just the whole everything is just formed. Yeah. I have formed a final, you know, decision on what all of this means, what all this is. I know that it is a physical event that happens to people. People are actually taken from their national environment to say the spacecraft and

examined these themes. Uh, they materialize, you know, they could come through walls, through doors, and they don't have to open doors or open windows, they'll materialize and dematerialize. And it seems that they're able to do this with with us, who you know, are solid beings, and they're able to bring these people from their environment through walls and through windows without opening

them. So they have that capability. I you know, it's I'm not saying that all of the experiences and all of these beings, and there has to be so many, probably hundreds of different types of beings with all different agendas. The ones that I'm mainly dealing with and the ones the reason why people come to me for help are the ones that the little gray beings that seem to be the workers, the little short ones that seem to be get

doctors. They have a behind mentality. So there is definitely a chain of command on the on the spacecraft. But they they're they're the ones that do be abducting. They don't seem to have any feeling or our sense of the person being frightened. They really don't have that capability that we have now in the beginning that the experience seems to be very frightening. Of course, because

the person is taken and there they don't know what's happened to them. They're they're taken to a very strange environment with travisry members just a very short time of his five day experiences being in this room with these very short beings with the big eyes. You know, he's thinking he was in the hospital and when until he saw these beings and he became very frightened. Then he came across the human looking one in another room. And the people that I've dealt

with also see very human looking beings. They could be walking on our street and we would, you know, we wouldn't look at them and say, oh, you know, they might be alien beings and they look very human. The so you know, some some of them may be may be here, may come with the intention of helping us. The ones that I that I'm working with with, the with people that I'm regressing, they're told that

the beings are not allowed to interfere with us. They're observing us. They're very interested in what we're doing down here, and especially with all of our weaponry and wars that we have. I think they're concerned about that are nuclear weapons. But they're not allowed to interfere. So I can't say that all the beans are are here to come down here and help us and save us from ourselves. I mean, we haven't seen it yet. They're wonderful beings

up there. I hope I come across them, you know. I hope they they're telling me what they're doing so that I can be more effective in my work. But I haven't been told anything yet, so I really am not coming from they're all evil, you know, and they're all doing evil things, or they're here to help us. I know that from studying all of this, that they do have certain beings do have an agenda, and

I feel that the agenda is around the hybrid program. You know, as strange as the sounds, but it just see means that because they take over constantly, they're taking sperm samples, and then time and time again, people are abducted again and shown babies. They're shown children in different stages of life, and they're told that this child is theirs and they need to interact with it. Now, what's going to happen with these hybrid children, you know,

is I don't know. I mean, are they going to all live here among us? They may be down here already. I know people have mentioned that they feel that they've come across Beans. You know that our hybrid and they weren't quite you know, they weren't quite human. There was something about them that was a little strange. I've been hearing this more and more, and I know Bud and David have come across that as well. But I mean, I I don't, you know, I I wish they would

tell me more. I would, I would they would give me more answers about you know, what what the well, what the ultimate agenda is now they're creating all these hybrids. I mean, I'd like to know what the reason is. You know, are they here to take us over? You know? Or I mean they're certainly not. They certainly are not here to destroy us. I mean I really feel that they that could have been done

a long time ago when they first started showing up here. So I you know, I I truly don't feel that they're you know, we're in that independence day type of you know situation. But I do feel I think they're telling the truth. These certain beings are saying that telling these people that they abduct is that they're not allowed to toxtrey with them. Well, I want to bring this up because there's a lot of people in the chat, well, a few very active people in the chat talking about this, and I

know your friends with this gentleman as well as I am. I'm pretty sure because he goes to Roswell Joe Jordan and his work, and some people in the chat are bringing up which I know you're familiar with, the similarities between abduction and demonic possession and some of the things described in the Bible, and these guys, of course are looking at it from the view like Joe does that perhaps it is that something demonic, and Joe believe he's found that,

you know, you can use the Jesus' name and evoke his name and help end these abduction experiences. Have you found that? What do you feel about You know, it's a difficult topic, but what do you feel about that angle? I definitely feel a no. I do know that they are not in any way similar to demonic possession people. Of course, you know, I encourage people to use whatever protection they want to use to empower themselves. People have used prayer, people have used just a protection around them, say

white light or you know, a beautiful golden light. But I have not found yet that anything, you know, they evoke Jesus name or you know, as many prayers as they say may stop it for a while, but it does not. It does not stop it forever. And certainly, you know, demonic possession is very evil. I mean, it's it's something that frightens me. And I'm glad I'm not you know, dealing with that that

particular aspect of you know, of evil. Now, abduction is frightening in the beginning, especially because people don't know what's you know, what's happening to them. But I was I have a very very good friend who is a

minister, and he was very interested in my work with UFO abductions. And I invited him to a Sheral meeting one time and I said, I want you to tell me, because he worked with extorcists extorcism, and I said, I want you to tell me if if you feel this is has anything to do with demonic possession or the dealing with the devil in any way. And when he attended the meeting, he met you know, the sher members.

You know, later he told me he said, you know, Evanna, if if this was anything evil like demonic possession, he said, when I've been in exorcism, been present in you know, with this evil he goes the hair and the back of my neck will stand up. He says, it's so frightening. But he said, well, he met the serial members and they were talking about their experiences. He said, there is in

no way was it connected to demonic possession. So, you know, and it really it bothers me that the you know that this comparison is made not only by Joe, but you know, I've heard, oh I've heard this over all the last last twenty years. I mean, it's nothing new to me, but I know I know for a fact that it is not one and the same and to me, thank goodness. Right, And I know the head demon Demonologists, at least until he passed recently, my signior Corrado

Balducci, felt that they were what's that. I'm sorry. I met him as well, several times met them in Italy and I met him in Washington, D C. And he felt similar, there are two separate phenomenas there. Yes. After and after hearing him say that, after I you know, I spent time with my friends. Who was the minister he told me, you know, he felt he said, oh, there's in no way connected. That made me feel even better because because this is you know,

this is a separate issue. I mean, we you know, we're dealing with beings from in you know, other another, other planets or maybe you know, maybe maybe uh when I say a parallel universe, M no, I mean there's so many different theories out there. I don't I don't have

the definitive answers you. It could be all, you know, all of the above, but we just I know that these people are experiencing, they're having interactions with beans from other worlds, and you know, I mean, it's it's hard to explain, but it isn't anything uh evil like like when we're talking about demonic did you Eljanda, did you watch the movie Fourth kind?

Now? When you know, when I sat there and I definitely wanted to see this because it had a lot to do with my work, and I sat there, my first impression was seeing these people that were in hypnosis, and I cringed when I to me, it was more of a uh, you know, these people were were possessed. No, I've not had anybody levitate in hypnosis. I've not had anybody go home and commit suicide or

kill their families. I mean, I just absolutely was horrified. So was I. I felt the same way, and you know, I went with Antonio Mauricio here and we went together. And that's when I was really most almost offended by working in this in this field, because it so misrepresents the real research, which is interesting enough, and they try to play it off as if it was real. And then you talk to people and they think that some of those videos in that movie were real because they said they were,

but they weren't. No, they did play it off as this was a documentary. And I have I've had people email me just you know, so frightened about, Oh my god, can this happen? It was this real? And you know I had I had a psychiatrist write me about this, and you know I have to I definitely tell them, oh, absolutely not. This was not really was just a movie. You know that hypnosis and hypnotherapy and regression is safe in in someone's hands who's who's had the proper

training. But what struck me though, was that it looked very demonic, right, like they were possessed. And that's what and that's what bothered me, right, that is a yeah, it was that movie was just off over a many levels it was. It's unfortunate. Yeah, But to go back to I think one of the interesting things about this about abductions that we've yet to see and is the physical part of that really getting as much emphasis

as it should. The physiological effects that people have. This is definitely in my experience and yours, as you had mentioned, and the many other people like you who have done decades of work, that it is a physical It's something that John Mack really, for instance, didn't tackle. And I love John Mack, here's a great thinker. But there are physical instances. People do come back with scoop marks, other marks on their body. And then

there's the whole implant phenomena. Yes, it seems like it's an area that's ripe for more science to be done. Yes, oh well, we we're we have a long way to go. But you know, there's people like my friend and colleague, doctor Roger Lear, who for the last several years has you know, has been very instrumental in getting these surgeries done, Getting the trays done is needed, getting the surgeries done and the analysis. You know, everything takes money, and most of the time we do this out

of pocket. You know, we don't have funding. I really want to work towards that because I think we all deserve to have funding in some way, because this is very serious work with the with the implants and with people coming back with it. And I present the marks and scars that are in a triangular shape needle marks and are trying their shape, bruises and are trying the shape. Now bask doctors in the past, how does someone bruise or

mark in a triangle? And they have no way of explaining it. And so yes, I mean we, like I mentioned, you know, we do have a long way to go, but you know we're we'reinal working towards that. And I you know, I really do impoor people out there with that have the means and the interest in this to you know, think about fundiness fund you know, organizations like myself, like mine zero who you know, these these are a group of people that had these tremendous experiences that want

to share their experiences. That's why I wrote my first book, Chosen. I want to get it out there. I put the actual transcripts in the book so that people know this is what people experience when they're when they've had this experience and they're under you know, undergoing hypnosis. I'm having, as you mentioned earlier in the show, I'm having uh we have guests, guests

come in uh by twice a year sponsored by zero. We're having Stan Roman It come out this month, September eight teenth, in Orange County, California, because he has a very interesting and of course very controversial case. Is controversial because I think it's it's very difficult to believe that he has all of this documentation. He has people that have you know, videotaped the same object

that he has. But I want to present people like Stan to come out and share their stories, their experiences, so that so that everybody has a chance to talk about what they experience. I'm having, you know, another guest speaker in in May, Travis Walton, and to finally come out to southern California. So I mean, you know, we're trying to keep bringing

this to the forefront. And I think with all these you know, these extractions of you know, what we call implants, I mean, this should be on the six o'clock news, and and yet it is and our you know, our media ignores it. And I think there's a reason for it

or treats it poorly. I was, of course, because since I've been so close and and you know, my listeners know a lot about Stan roman X case, and not all of my listeners believe in the case, even though there that I of course, uh was a lead investigator and had my own experiences. And and luckily, even though they don't agree, they come back to the show. And I don't blame people, you know, it's it's a difficult thing, and and I just encourage that they go, like

September eighteenth, to see him. Unfortunately, he's called and asked me to come out and I'm going to be in California, but I'm gonna be five hours north and San Leandro, uh at the Rubens Ex Best Oh I heard about that. Yeah, yeah, so it's unfortunate that It's funny I'll be in the same statement, won't be able to make it out there. Yeah. So if your listeners, like I mentioned, I want to give everyone

a chance, uh, you know, to speak about their experiences. And since he's in Stan Romanix in Colorado, I wanted to give him the opportunity to come out to California and talk about his case. So, as you mentioned, September eighteenth and as a learning like foundation in Orange County, California. They can send me and know if they want more information or go on to my website as you mentioned Wifsmith dot com. But you know, as

I when I lecture, it's the same thing as I lecture. I put it out there, the information out there, and just let everyone decide for

themselves what's you know, what they want to take from it. And I hope people go see stand who live in the area and my listeners who are skeptical to see what I've been talking about or what we've been talking about because all of these things he's had included in his like Scoop Mark's implants, I've been there to witness this, and I've been there to examine all these things. And I mean I rubbed his skin rop you know with those Scoop works

at Fluoresce under the black line. I know you know that wasn't anything above the surface. And I can't believe we only have like a minute or so lest we are almost at a time it flew by it sure did. I really enjoyed this. Aljanta, thank you so much for having me on, and I hope your listeners will they have any questions. You know that they can welcome to send me an email. They could get my email from my website because also if they're interested in producing chosen my first book. I'm in

the process of arriety of my second and third right now. But they could also purchase show listen through my website Amazon, and I encourage people to go out there and buy our books and give them out as you know Christmas gifts, say gifts and help us spread the word. Yes, well, thank you so much for being on the show. Whysmith dot com. We'll have us on on again because I have a ton more questions to ask her.

I look forward to that, all right, And next week we've got marky Antonio who does a photo and video analysis for move On On, so you're gonna want to check that out. We'll talk about all the cases that he's researched there. So thanks again for tuning in on the show. We'll talk to you next week. Be sure to check us out open mind dot Tv. Thank you,