Whitley Strieber, The Key

Love Hot Radio. Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is a UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomena. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. That is I your host, Alejandro Roja. So this is I. That was Bob Dean, and thank you Bob Dean. I've told him that several times, even though I don't think he listens to the show, but I told him that when he did it. But that's the wonderful Bob Dean lending us his very wise sounding voice

to the intro of a magnificent radio show. And that is Open Minds Radio. We are your UFO news authority and we have a great show today. Whitley streamer. I used to say Streiber, but I was wrong. It is a Streamer and you all probably know that because he's a very popular author, author of the popular book Communion, which essentially brought the whole abduction phenomena

forward to the public. So we'll be talking to him a little bit about that, but we're gonna mostly be talking to him about his new book called The Key, which is very interesting. This has to do with a situation in nineteen ninety eight where he was out doing his book tours for the Communion Book, and in the middle of the night, some guy comes to his

door and knocks on the door and kind of freaks him out. He wants to talk to him and we'll talk about, you know, how this all came about and what he felt at the time, but it was kind of weird. And this guy then starts talking to him about, you know, humanity and all of this very deep important stuff, as if he was some sort of wise person from the ether. So from the unknown and Whitley's website is Unknown Country if you want to go there, a very popular website.

So it's very interesting stuff. Whitley had self published a book about this previously a few years ago, but you know, that didn't really sell too much copy, too many copies. You could only get it on his website. So now he's gone with a larger publisher and now it's in the bookstores. It's packaged in a pretty book and everything, and it's very interesting. We

were lucky enough to get a preview copy. I know. It actually went on sale the twelfth, so that was Thursday, the day before Friday, the thirteenth, so now this weekend, if you already didn't go out and get it, or maybe you wanted to wait and listen to the show and decide for yourself whether you should get it. It's a short, quick read and it is very very interesting. I would say, so this is going to be a great show. That's going to be a lot of fun.

And speaking of a lot of fun and some great shows, I wanted to say thanks to Mental Radio mentalradio dot net. And that's an interview I got to do this weekend with the famous Shadow Stevens. And I remember Shadow Stevens from my childhood because he was on TV. He did like this radio I like the Top forty TV show or something like that, and he would do appearances on different shows because you have the really deep voice and much better than

that, he'd have to check out mental radio dot net. And then you know, he was a good looking guy. So he was like this leading man type of guy and like, wow, he should be on more TV shows because he's really cool. So just a real cool guy. And it was a lot of fun because they were definitely take this stuff not as serious. They they have a lot more fun, which isn't for everybody. People like the more serious type of stuff, but they have a lot of fun

and they kind of have some comedy bits that they put throughout it. But they're very positive too. They want to make sure that everybody understands the future is positive and there's a positive outlook to all of this, including the May twenty first end of the world predictions, because that's of course everybody's talking about that. And they were too, although I don't think they put much credence

in it either. So it was a lot of fun. Wanted to say thanks to them, and also the Bay Area moof on too because did a presentation with them, and Michael is out doing Michael Shrap with Open Minds is out doing a presentation, but I'm not even sure where he did one this weekend. He's very stealthy, just like the subjects. He likes to cover a stealth bomb. He'll slide in and slide out. You know, you

never see him. You might catch a glimpse of him when he goes out to lunch, but it real and that you don't even hear that, there's no sound. Just might catch a glimpse of him once in a while. Real stealthy little fella. So much research into stealth just I guess it's really helped him understand the technology so much that he can use it even when he goes to lunch heads out to his Cardil lunch. Also, we will be at a couple places that you can come see some of the stupor stars of

ufology and open Minds. We're gonna be at Mofon and that's gonna be July twenty ninth through the thirty first. That's a move On symposium in Irvine, California, So just go to move on dot com to check more about that. They're gonna have some cool speakers. I know they're gonna have Joe mcmonagall. They're gonna have Story Musgrave, an astronaut talking about his UFO sidings. And hopefully we'll have some of these guys on the radio show here soon because

we're working with them on that. So that's very exciting. We'll see you then. And then of course there's Roswell and you will see Alejandro and Antonio in Roswell. We're going to have a table out there selling some magazines and stuff, including our Roswell edition, which is exciting because Don Schmidt and Stan Friedman who wrote articles in that issue are going to be in the room with us, so you can go get their signature and it'll be a lot of

fun. I'm definitely looking forward to that. It's a festival of just craziness in Roswell. Not quite Las Vegas, but it's silly, I'll tell you what. It's silly stuff going on out there. Speaking of silly stuff, we got a silly guy in here named Jason McClellan. But he's very serious about this subject because he covers the news and these are the UFO headlines in the conventional news, and he don't mess around. He tells it like it is. Welcome Jason, and thank you for being here to share with us.

Thank you for having me Alejandro, and greetings everyone. This is your open Mind's news from Monday, May sixteenth, twenty eleven. A picture of a UFO was taken last week by a photographer in Melrose, Scotland. The photographer, who asked to remain anonymous, supply the UFO photo to the Border

Telegraph. He described the object in the picture as moving pretty fast at around forty five degrees towards the sky, with a tail showing the direction The Border Telegraph contacted both the Met Office, which is the UK's National Weather Service, and the Ministry of Defense to see if either group could shed any light on the UFO in question. The Met Office had no record of a weather balloon

in the area, and the mod declined to comment. And this story is like a lot of other stories with lights in the sky and people contact different groups to see if they you know, like the FAA here in the States,

in organizations to see if they had certain things in the sky. And I thought it was weird with this story how they pointed out that the the Met Office there their National Weather Service, they were looking at weather balloons and you look at this picture, doesn't look like a weather balloon at all. It's like a fireball on the sky with a sort of tail, like a comet or something in the sky. So weather balloon seems kind of a weird

thing to go after. But there are other things I think the National Weather Service could have told whoever was looking into this about something in the sky and not just a weather balloon. While you're talking about this, I kind of had an epiphany and short of a prediction is that I don't think that these services FAA, the Weather Services, you know these other organizations, They're not going to be able to blow people off like they keep doing. I don't

think for too much longer. I don't think people will take it. Luckily. This subject, I think, is getting enough into the public and the forefront, and we have enough credible people talking about it that that's going to have to be the first area to break. Because come on, if I'm seeing something strange in the sky and calling the FAA to tell them about it, it's ridiculous that they wouldn't take it serious. I mean, because it

could be a safety hazard. They need to either something's got to happen. I gotta say, well, we're going to forward this onto so and so or something. I think that there's going to have to be some sort of change in that. Well, you would certainly hope so. But it's pretty shocking the responses that have been given most of the time, because there can be visible objects in the sky and you'll read reports of the FAA saying, oh, well, we don't show anything on our radar. Yeah, well

you can see something in the sky. Yeah. It's even more alarming that it's not on your radar, but it's there. So what are you going to do. Yeah, we'll fix your damn your radar's broken pill yeah, yeah. But especially I mean the Weather Service, what are they supposed to say, we don't see any clouds in the area, and there were no

balloons. I mean, I don't know what they could say. But especially organizations that are there to maintained safety, especially for commercial airlines or whatever they've got, it's ridiculous that they can just blow people off like that. Right, It's wrong, It is wrong, but at least neglix. You know, there are some official organizations who give an official word. Yeah, whether or not they're just you know, who knows. They're probably just blowing people

off. Yeah, they kind of blow people off, but at least they're responding. I mean, you know, Gary, the Barry Goldwater Range, they responded to my and I was very surprised with that. To go. I found that typically to be true though for the most part, if you contact them, they're going to blow you off, but they're going to at least give you some sort of answer, form letter, some form answer, which was kind of cool when I started doing this in Colorado, example,

because people do this. If you see a black helicopter and next to the UFO. Then call the Air Force spaces around you, and it helped. I called all the Air Force spaces the first time this happened in Colorado. They were able to tell me what kind of aircraft are you know, say well, we don't have helicopter or one base said well the only people doing

those routine flying around black hawks are the Air National Guard. So then you get to find out what kind of aircraft are in your area being flown by who, and then you could be more specific when you request next time. That's a good skill you've learned there, my friends, Yeah, excellent, We've got more UFO sightings. The Shropshire Star published an article last week about

UFOs that were seen in the sky above Shropshire, England. A video accompanied the article showing a mysterious sort of orange light that was seen hovering in the sky on May first. A second light appears in the sky and hovers with the first light. The first light then begins to slowly drift across the sky and starts blinking. It then accelerates and disappears. A period of time passes. Then the second light moves in a similar pattern as the first light before

vanishing from sight. According to the Shropshire Star, Shrewsbury based UFO Investigation and Research unit didn't think the lights in the video or Chinese lanterns, and the unit has been unable to come up with an explanation for the strange lights. Serious lights in the sky are apparently common in that area, and one comment I read related to this video suggested that it could be hot air balloons. And It's been a while since I've seen hot air balloons in the night sky,

but I can imagine they would be quite bright. But these lights in the video seem extremely brilliant, and the article mentioned that the person who took this video said people in the area see these things on a sort of irregular basis, not something regular like airplanes things like that. They also mentioned that there was no sound from the objects and that people who see these things refer them to them as many suns. That's how bright they are in the night

sky. Wow. And it's kind of odd how they just hover motionless for a while and then start moving. That's something else we should do then, I mean, you guys don't have them as much. We had a hot air balloons a lot in Denver, but it's probably because it's so warm out here and the colder air is it better. That's why they usually launch in the very early mornings, because the colder air is better for hot air balloons.

And hot air balloons don't go very long without turning their big flame on, so they'll coast along with their flame and then you know, you can hear it pretty loud. They turn on their big flame to keep altitude, and I don't even think they go more than a minute or two without having to turn their flame on to keep the balloon heated up and aloft. So we should videotape those to tell the difference. But I think it's pretty obvious

a hot air balloon. Plus when they turn on their flame, depending on where you are, you can then make out the balloon part right, especially the designs and stuff. They definitely have a look to them, whereas these are just sort of bright balls and hot air balloon. Yeah, you can see the flames go on and stay on most of the time, but these objects that were videotape started blinking at one point. You know what we should do the whole crew is go to just because it's fun more than anything.

The hot air the Balloon Fiesta in Albuquerque. It's the biggest international bloom fiesta, and they have a couple of alien balloons out there. I've seen pictures of that. Yeah, yeah, I've got some pictures that somewhere. Well my hard drive crash, I probably don't have them anymore, but they're really

cool. Well, I think it would certainly be worth it, you know, to experiment with some video there, because then they have different types of balloons too, Like there are different there's another kind that's more rare, but it's more around and they have some races with those types, so we could take pictures of more than just one. And again with regards to this video we just talked about, and they don't move fast, right, you know,

they don't take off in any direction fast. Well, with this video, you know, this group who looked into it said they ruled out Chinese lanterns. And with the Chinese lanterns you and I have experience experiments with, I would have to agree that the behavior was certainly not like typical Chinese lanterns. However, we have pointed out that in the UK and in other places

there are variations of Chinese lanterns there'sn't just one type of Chinese lanterns. Some of the enormous fuel cells that are very bright stay up in the sky a long time. And then there's a legal ones once that are homemade, like when people have put gash what they put a trash bag around a flare right right, And you know, with with wind currents, wind currents of different altitudes moving into different directions, different speeds, things can get kind of crazy

up in the sky. But it seems weird that these two independent lights would be sort of close to each other and not move exactly the same at the same time, but following a similar flight path. Yeah, it's it's kind of strange behavior. It's a good video to watch. So we've got the link to that on our website. Open mind such heaving and let's see I think we have. Oh, this is another interesting video we'll talk about now.

Storms hit the Dallas Fort Worth area of Texas last week. According to the Dallas Fort Worth NBC affiliate, lightning blew an electrical substation east of downtown on Tuesday night, resulting in a chain reaction of an undisclosed number of transformers blowing, producing an eerie light show that was reportedly captured on video by a fort Worth CPA and amateur photographer named Brian Lunzer from his thirty fourth floor condo.

The video shows hundreds of explosions, varying in color. The Star Telegram reported that more than three hundred cloud to ground lightning strikes occurred in Fort Worth from eight pm to ten pm and at approximately nine pm. These events prompted calls to police by residents who were reporting this is interesting. They were reporting fireballs both from the sky and on the ground. And Lunson reported or recorded

his video between ninet thirty and ten and this is also interesting. Bob ray Sanders, a columnist for the Star Telegram, witnessed the event and he stated, I've seen lightning strikes and this was no lightning. He further described, I saw fire in the sky and on the ground I saw ten or twelve explosions. It was like someone was dropping bombs. Well, when you watch the video, it's extraordinary. I mean, these things light up so bright.

I've been there to see and a couple times actually to see transformers blow up, and it is pretty spectacular. They're really bright, they blow up, sparks fly, and you do see like these orbs. If you were like on the other side of a building to where one's blowing up, you would see maybe orbs flying across, but still that I'm talking about just one, but in this video you see tons of them going off like crazy back

and forth. To be in that area would be kind of scary because these orange balls would be flying all over the place, let alone how the heck this started. And some of these explosions were so massive, these brilliant blue lights would light up the entire sky and other things. With this video, some people claim you can see lights in the sky at certain points, these

different orbs in the sky. Those most likely are are length flare because they occur when a very bright explosion happens, and it sort of follows the camera. It's timeed with the explosion too. You see the flares when a certain explosions going, and its intensity varies with the explosion. So I'm not saying certainly that's what it is, but that would suggest that that's what it is.

But there are some players. Yeah, yeah, for sure, absolutely, But you know, there have been people who suggest that, you know, this was some sort of military energy weapon testing and various things like that. But the varying colors and how long this thing went on. It's crazy. It's it's a mind blowing video to watch. Yeah, and some people who have seen thee on YouTube said, well, why didn't the media cover

this? Well, they did, it was it was really only isolated to the local media, strangely, because this is one of the most incredible videos I've ever I've never seen an explosion great video. It's like a great light show on the Fourth of July. But it's all these explosions on the ground. It's an amazing video. I think it's incredible. All right, Well, we'll move on to another story. UFO sightings are reportedly on the rise

in Finland. That's according to YLE, a finished broadcasting company. Apparently, hundreds of UFOs are seen in the Finish skies every year. A Finnish UFO researcher from the UFO Finland or UFO Finland Organization has been studying UFOs for forty six years, and he told Wyle a photo was not enough proof for him.

He stated, we always need basic information about the pictures. The Internet is full of mirror images, and I thought this story in particular was sort of different from other sighting reports to get covered by major media because they a lot of them. When they talk to photographers who took pictures, or talk to people who are researchers of UFOs or people who followed UFOs, they talk to people who believe absolutely everything they see, and so the people they talk

to come off as sounding gullible. Yeah, whereas this person who has forty six years under his belt, they chose to print his comments about a photo doesn't mean anything. We need more information, yeah, which is true unfortunately. I mean, if you've taken a picture of something, you know what was there, that's great because you understand that you're telling the truth and everything. But really to present something as certainly unusual or a real photo, you

need information behind the photo. And that's why when we see these videos that are anonymously posted, it's kind of a waste because it may be a great video, but we don't know much about it, as opposed to when you have multiple witnesses who can give you information about out that video. That's why I think that Turkish famous Turkish UFO siding is so important because there's multiple witnesses unrelated, they don't know each other, who had seen this thing and talked

about all seeing the same thing along with this great video. That's a sort of situation you're looking for. And certainly the photos and videos that don't have any information accompanying them, it doesn't mean they're any less true. It doesn't mean they're they're not acturate, they didn't happen, but it certainly doesn't help prove anything. Yeah, it doesn't help the media latch onto it, and it doesn't help others. It doesn't there's no substantiating the image. It's just

it's there. And unless you were there and thought, it means nothing. And unfortunately, as we keep seeing demonstrated photoshop and these video programs that you can do anything these days, well maybe you can, your skills are better than mine, but no I can. I can put your head on Arnold Schwarzenheger's body, though, and I'd like to see that. That's cool. I can do a little smiley face. Yeah, that's kidd all right.

There's a new documentary about strange and controversial conspiracy theories that will debut at the end of this week on May twenty first, at the Retrodome in San Jose, California. The film is called The Truth is Out There and was produced by Dean Haglan, who was also the film's host. Haglin was actually a guest on our radio show before ye. Haglin is best known as Langley,

one of the lone gunmen from the television series The X Files. The documentary follows Hagelin as he travels the world, interviewing conspiracy theorists who believe in everything from UFO abductions to secret nine to eleven plots by the US government. Yeah, it was the interview we have of him on our magazine and I don't know if we put it on the web. I think it's just on a magazine, but it's well and it's mostly all in our radio show. It

was a lot of fun. Yeah, because you know, being you would think, well, he's not a UFO researcher, what is he now? Well, now he is a re UFO researcher. But more than that, just going around talking about X File tell them, being at these sci fi conferences and behind the scenes with the X Files. He's got so many incredible stories, some really interesting, great stories. Yeah, I'm excited for this documentary. I am too. I watched the preview The Little trailer he's got

on the website and it actually looks pretty interesting. He's a cool guy, honey, he is a great guy. The Jakarta Globe recently reported a new crop circle in Indonesia. The circle apparently appeared three weeks ago, but Beta UFO, a UFO sidings investigation group in Indonesia, was just made aware of the crop circle on Sunday. The design was ninety meters long and thirty meters

wide and consisted of two circles talked with hexagons. By the time beta UFO reached the circle, the landowner had already cut down much of the circle. The group reportedly sent photos and samples from the crop circle to a university to determine if the crop circle was man made or not. MM be interesting to see what they find. Although interesting enough, a lot of the media and everything in the area with the last crop circle were very skeptical. Yeah,

so we'll see. I think even university. There was some quotes from university professors in the area who were very skeptical. Yeah. Most interesting this group. Their first response was to send it to university. Yeah, that's great, So hopefully we hear more about that one. And lastly, good old uh Gary McKinnon may lose his fight against being extradited to the United States.

The forty five year old Scottish computer hacker was charged by the US with the biggest military computer hack of all time after he claims that he was looking for information about UFOs and extraterrestrials. And I was back in two thousand and one, two thousand and two that he did that, and he's been fighting extradition

ever since. And there were hopes that the upcoming visit to the UK by US President Barack Obama would result in a breakthrough from mc McKinnon's case, but according to The Daily Mail Today, US Attorney General Eric Holder vowed last week

to take all necessary steps to extradite Gary. So keep our fingers continuing to be crossed for him, but uh, you know, any any last hope he has a sort of dwindling Yeah, the US has stayed resolute the whole time that we're not letting up. We want to Even when Barack went out there and they asked him about it, he said, you know what, I'm gonna let my guys figure that out and they're going to do what's best.

But essentially saying you know, and a lot of people took that is something positive, like oh good, He's going to figure out something that's best for Gary. Yeah. His point was that he's letting his guys handle it, and if his guys want him extradited, whatever his guys say, that's the best, right. So yeah, Unfortunately both sides, the US is standing strung with their their wanting to extradite him. But funny thing is it's the UK is kind of being sneaky. They're kind of being for me over

there where they're just kind of avoiding the issue. It's been nearly an year and a half now that they were supposed to come up their final decisions, which is their final, final, final, final, because we've already had a dozen final decisions, but yet another final decision with their avoiding, they're totally avoiding coming up with the decision because they know if they extra don't know, people are going to be really upset and interesting enough, though, I

do know that there was an extra extradiction from some other country where they denied it. They said no, we're not going to do it, and people were hoping that that said some precedent that and they were saying that this is not a terrorist situation. This does not fit under the agreement we made for extra dining, which is what the UK is saying now too, that they did this under the impression that this was just going to be terrorist ACKs,

not you know, some dude smoking pot and hacking into government computers. This has been a long, long case with all sorts of back and forth, and the poor guy just wants to get it resolved. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm rooting for Gary Tyo, you know, I'm not afraid to say that. Come on, well, this is prompted the UK to even reevaluate their whole extradition process because they don't think this is right right.

Well, anyway, alle Hunter, That is it for the news. Remember to check out these stories and more it Openminds dot tv your source for UFO related news. I'm Jason McClellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to u aalehandro All right, thank you, Jason. So some good stuff, lots of interesting news and lots of British news in last week. Got a lot going on out there, and it's kind of cool that their news covers that. Because of course we have lots of stories.

But when you think about their population compared to ours and the number of news sources they have out there compared to us, you know, we've got a lot more so per capita. They've got a lot going on, which is pretty exciting. Other exciting things are some of the stories that we have up on the web right now. One of them that go on Coast to Coast and we think Coast to Coast am very much for posting this link. I always send him the links to some of our cool stories, and this one

was something Antonio found. Yet again he finds some cool stuff in his archives. He worked with a gentleman who ran an organization called ikufon, the International Center for UFO Studies something like that. And this was a guy who came from Russia, Koman von Kovinski, and did research. And one of the things that this guy did was a video on film because he was a professional

film guy. And in nineteen seventy eight, actually throughout the seventies, there was some effort and we've talked with this Antonio with Antonio and on the show before, but that the un was actually working on UFO type of stuff and this was sponsored by the Prime Minister of Granada, Sir Eric Gary, and there was actually a resolution that was made where the member countries were supposed to

send UFO information to the UN, but they didn't. Some did, but not many, and so the UN wasn't able to enforce this or anything. But it did happen and there were things that went on there, and the history is important because people say, well, we need the UN to pick this up. Well, they tried in the past, and of course we need to understand our past in order to strive for a better future. But

what Antonio was able to find was some rare film of those hearings. So you see Heinich JL and Heinik, who we've talked a lot about who used to do investigating of UFOs for the Air Force, who really became one of the first civilian UFO investigators. He's there talking to the UN. On the

floor. You see Lieutenant Colonel Coyne who had a UFO siding, and then you see a press conference with Heinik, Jacques Vallet who we've had on the show, and Coin and you see Sir Eric Gary there and also present was a Stanton Friedman actually, but unfortunately they didn't get him on this bit of film, and then I know when you scan, you know Luckman, Michael Luckman is in there. And we've talked about him a little bit here and there, and he was on the show also, but yeah, he's in

this film too. So I'm extremely excited about this film, and I think it's mostly really exciting for UFO research geeks like me because you get to see some of your heroes in action on this film at the UN, so it was such an important event. Some people have complained that it doesn't have any music, but I thought, you know what, I don't think we need to put any Metallica or something in the background like they do on these YouTube videos. It's film. There was no sound during that period of time.

Really, it's just archival footage that's really neat, which is documenting this incredible event that happened when the UN was really talking about UFOs. So you can read this story there. You can read a lot more about all that happened back there. But that's really cool. And of course we've got our continuing segments on the royals in UFOs and we have another segment there with some interesting

stuff, so go check out the website. But now let us go ahead because we've got about an hour left, and let's talk to Whitley Streemer. I'm really excited about this interview, so let's go ahead and talk to Whitley. All right, Well, thank you so much for joining us. Whitley. I'm excited to have you on the show for the first time. Well, I'm excited to be here for the first time. I'm all pumped up and ready to roll cool. Well, and I'm also excited about your book.

I know it had been out before, but I hadn't read it then, and then luckily I got a copy from the publisher, and I guess one of the first things I'd like to ask you about, and one of the things that I wasn't expecting was that it, especially in the beginning of the book, you go into a lot of different types of paranormal experiences that you've had. Yeah, in the in the key, yes, well I've I've had, you know, Anne and I were talking about this a couple

of weeks ago. I'm working on a book which is coming out in January called What Is to Come that sort of reviews our whole life together, and we really have You're right, I mean it has been since we since I was a kid, and for any since we met, it has just been contentious. Just it's the way I live. I ask to why, I'm afraid you might ask that question next, and my answer is I don't know, man, but it's should We're all right. Yeah. It's interesting because

your answer I don't know is typically the answer I get. You know, when you ask people who have had incredible experience is why them and I don't know? Well, one possibility is this. There was a very interesting project done by a doctor Ken Ring back in the late eighties that was published eventually as the Omega Project where he compared the life experiences of close encounter witnesses, near death experiences, and the number of other people types of people who have

had so called paranormal experiences. And he's discovered that there was a consistency among people who had close encounter experiences, and that was that they had trauma in their childhoods of various kinds. Could be sexual, trauma, could be a great family tragedy, but something that kind of cracked the cosmic egg and made their whole world turn upside down. And those people are the ones who generally have close encounter experiences, and I don't think it's that they're chosen and we're

chosen. I think that we notice that we see it something that is absolutely part of human life. That was actually going to be my next question. If you felt that perhaps others were having experiences or the energies or entities are around them, they just don't notice them. Well, I think everybody is. I think it's part of being human. I think there's a large part of being human that we have decided to turn away from. And I think I know why. I think it's because we are here building something, and

in order to build this we need within ourselves. I mean, in order to build it, we need spontaneity. We can't do it if we have a foreknowledge of our lives because the energy won't be there, the energy of self discovery will not be there. I think what we're looking at is an aspect of being, of being human, if you will, that lives outside of space and time as we know it, and we are projected into the time stream in order to have these experiences that enable us to explore ourselves and

to make the extraordinary journey toward who we really are. Yeah, one of the people who kind of answered that question. I like the story of the astronaut who had said, you know, he liked to think of himself as at the top of the food chain, even if he had to lie to himself to believe that. Yeah. Well, he's a sweetheart, but he hates the UFO stuff. And he was very plain spoken to me about that. He just hates the UFO stuff, and he does for that reason.

He said, I don't want the path to tomorrow is to be well worn. And you can't blame him. I mean, we're here for an adventure and if we're tall, oh, well, you know, you want to go to another planet. There's a bus over there. Leave me a couple of minutes. It's kind of depressing, you know. You want it to

be new and fresh and exciting and amazing. And somehow or another, thinking that there's somebody else above us in the food chain that they know more and they are kind of looking down on us really rubs intellectuals and scientists the wrong way. And it's frightening. And I don't blame him. It doesn't bother

me, God knows, but it does bother a lot of people. Yeah, now that also touches upon of course, a lot of what was said by the Master of the Key in the book, and this idea of the organ that we don't use, meaning you know, being able to see and communicate with the other side. Yeah, this organ, that's a very important part of the Key because what he does is he explains not only what it

is, but how to use it. And it's quite amazing because if you learn, if you if you actually meditate, you can learn to use it and it works. It's really something that it uh opens you. Just just

just the knowledge of what it is is all you need. It doesn't You don't have to dance around the room or do jump through hoops or anything, just to know it's there and to go quietly into yourself and to meditate, and then you notice it's that it is giving you all kinds of points of contact beyond yourself that you don't ordinarily have and sometimes they can get really vivid because you know, we're not the only ones using this method of communication.

Uh, there are others who use it and much more. I would even suspect there are others from what I've seen out there that use it and in a way that's enhanced by technology. Because remember the Master I think he also says something else. He said, there is no supernatural It's all nature, some of which you understand and some of it you don't. Back in seventeen fifty, people were laughing at the idea of meteors. Scientists were scorning anybody

who thought meteors were stones falling out of the sky. And look at what the ancient Romans would have made of radio. I mean, really, you know. In other words, it's simply part of the science of the soul, and we haven't really gotten there yet because we have not come into open contact with what he calls conscious energy, which is us and is all around

us. That's one interesting thing about the conversation is that the science aspect, along with the spiritual aspect and extraordinary you know, statements such as that this organ that can communicate with the other side could be because you asked a question a mechanical thing, and I got the impression and I wanted to ask you about this, that he was even alluding to that we might build that machine prior to us. You know, people in a large amount of being able

to access this information without a machine. Well exactly, And that's what I'm saying. I think others have built machines that intensify this access, because every once in a while, but i'm meditating like that, I will have a very very vivid image, a televisual image, that vivid of something like once

there was a woman dancing, but she wasn't human. Her skin was a different color, sort of almost like cyanosis ballue, and her forehead was was much larger than ours, and she was dancing, and she was obviously in some kind of a performance, and it just lasted a couple of minutes, but in a couple of seconds and maybe twenty seconds. And another time I had a very very rich, vivid vision of a big granite building about seven

or eight stories tall, two wings on it. Behind it was a hillside with yellow flowers on the hillside and little clouds t whipping across the through the blue sky, and I could even hear noises if they weren't noises, I could even describe a sort of low rumbling noise and a sense of very busy

activity somewhere nearby that I couldn't see. And that lasted long enough for me to actually look at the building and look at the doors, try to see if I could see anything in the windows which were dark, and I couldn't to look up the hill and into the sky. And it wasn't on this earth, It wasn't of this world. It was another world. I was seeing an image from another world. And I think that what I was seeing was I was picking up a snatch of some kind of something produced by some

sort of technology. This is also the reason that SETI went out of business, because we never hear radio, because that's how they communicate. That is now yeah, using essentially, I think he reverted to as a quantum communication, which is something I've heard scientists talking about. Well, actually there's a laboratory in China which is attempting to build a quantum communications device, and there has a few years ago, snatches of Mozart's Jupiter Symphony were sent via a

quantum communications device. And the way it works is this. You take two photons and you entangle them by bringing them together. Then you move them apart, and whatever you do to one of them will happen to the other at the same time, with no timeli like whatsoever. It is outside of space time the connection between them, and it's not a connection we understand, but if you do that not with two photons, but with two trillion photons.

Then you can potentially, by affecting the information load of one group of these photons, you can cause the other group to bear the same information load, and that information photons are really small, so that information can actually be far far richer than even then you can achieve with microwaves, which are much larger than photons. So it's this is a communications method that is being actively worked

on a NEU of a lab in China in the United States. Unfortunately, my guess is that it's all being impeded by classification, that the work that's being done on it is in classified laboratories. The tragedy of our age because we'll always be behind because of our obsession with secrecy. But that's another story.

In any case, Yeah, this is a very real technology. And the other sad thing about it is you could apparently put one group of those photons on one side of the universe one group on the other, and the effect would be the same instantaneous response. Now here's the question. If you

have to physically entangle them then move them apart. It's going to take a long time because you have to move them in a physical device, and that device presumably can't travel all that fast in the universe because the speed of light is slow compared to the size of the universe. So maybe there is another

way to entangle photons. And maybe when the Master of the key was describing how to come and contact with that electromagnetic organ on the surface of your body and how to not how to participate in it's what it's experiencing with in superposition without concentrating on it in such a way that you cause it to go into position and to just be around you. Just maybe it could be that there is not a necessity to entangle anything, because after all, at the Big

Bang, the whole universe was smaller than the head of a pin. Everything was entangled then and probably still is. We just have to know that in order to be able to make use of it. Yeah, it's exciting to think of. You know, some scientist in a lab who creates his quantum communication device, turned it on and all of a sudden he's talking to disembody souls and exeter rest rolls and that like this communication device that gets to all

of it opens up the incredible amount of information and ability. Oh oh yeah, it opens a whole new world up. And that's what The Key is actually about. It's about opening up a new world, but not a mystical world. It's a physical world, a world of a new kind of science. Because you know, he goes, he goes through a whole bunch of different scientific predictions in the man was very, very careful this book. People have I've gotten accusations, Oh, you wrote it yourself. Ah, you

can't. It's impossible. No one in nineteen ninety eight or even in two thousand and two when it was published, would ever have offered an opinion that a gas could be a form of computer memory. It wouldn't. Never who would think that it was. When I heard him say it, I thought

it was stupid. And when I thought when I was transcribing it, I thought to myself, that's something you don't want to put in there, because it's like something out of the contactee culture of the fifties is really really stupid pseudo science. But as I point out in the interview introduction to The Key, it's now established reality. Yes you can, all right, so, and I guess let's get back to that. I was so excited, and we'll get we'll talk more about what he had said. But I was so

excited about getting into some of those things. I guess there are the questions about, uh, the experience that you had. So, you know, you're it's the middle of the night and this guy comes to your hotel room. What did you think at first? You know, when you open the door and you see this guy, Well, not much. I didn't realize how long i'd been asleep. I thought i'd had dinner about maybe ten and in the room, and so the trade was still there and I had I

was I believe I was still I'm not. I guess I was already in my pajama. So I had had undressed and I was in my pajamas and you were just lying kind of on the top of the bed. I wasn't in the bed or anything. And there came a knock at the door, just a tap, tap tap, very polite, like a room service waiter would knock. And that's what I thought it was. So I went to the door and I was just, you know, opened the door. I didn't have accur to me there would be any one except a room service waier,

because who knew I was there? The publicist knew, and maybe a couple other people at the publishing company knew I was in the hotel, even the let alone. None of them would know which room. No one needed to know that, you know, so it would have run thing if he'd phoned. But it was an entirely different thing to knock on the door. So I'd just assume, yes, room service. I opened the door, and this guy comes in. Now at that point I realized it's late.

I didn't have my watch on, but I could sense that it was really late, And later when I looked at my watch, it was almost it was after two anyway, for sure, around three, as I recall. And you know, there's a rule of thumb in the in the semi celebrity world of writers, where you know if you're in fact, probably even more so in the real big time celebrity world, you don't want to interact with anyone after midnight because anyone who comes to talk to you after midnight is almost

always going to be bad news. So my initial response was to get him out of there. I wanted to get rid of him. I didn't I didn't know what to make of him. And then but then he started talking, and that changed everything. After thirty seconds or so. That was awesome in his appearance. You know, did he seem to be I guess was he dressed well? And what is his age area? Seemed to be dressed perfectly normally, and I believe charcoal slacks and the dark gray turtleck and it's

turned my sweater. And he looked to me in his seventies somewhere. He was not an He didn't He wasn't big, you know, he wasn't like a big hulk bruise or anything. He was I would say he was on the light side. Physically. He didn't look at all threatening. I mean I could have definitely taken the guy, no question in my mind, unless he had, you know, some advanced holds or something. There's no question if we'd gotten physical, I could have definitely gotten him out of there.

No, I didn't. I didn't feel at all intimidated. But I mean he was. He was a real sweet looking guy. He was an older guy, and he uh, rather pale, but not unusually so. I mean you could definitely, uh he walked past him in the street or sat at a bus or even interacted with him extensively. You never know there was anything unusual about him. He spoke quite quickly, and he seemed terribly happy. That was the thing that struck me. The man was happy. Mm

hmm, he was real, real happy. Is that what won you over? I mean, how did I? And the conversation that you have kind of starts where it seems like you already have the impression that he's a wise person when you ask why he's there. I didn't put any of the bs of hey, wait a minute, who are you and all that stuff that went on right before the conversation, because what's the point. Everyone knows what

went on. I probably cursed at him. I mean I wasn't violent, but I certainly certainly was making it very clear I wanted him out of there. How do you win you over? Well, first he said you're changed. I asked him why you're here? When he stood there, He stood there looking at me. He wasn't leaving. Obviously, I was going to have to physically throw him out, and I said why are you here? And he said you're chained to the ground, And I thought, what the

hell does that mean? And then I said excuse me. And then he said I'm here on behalf of the good. Please give me some time, and when he said please give me some time, there was something of an urgency in that those words, and that meant to me I was going to

give him another couple of minutes, for sure. And I guess the thing, you know, I said a few other things, but the guess the thing that got me was a thing that he said about the Holocaust, that we are not able to leave Earth because we do not understand gravity, and we don't understand gravity because a child who would have been born of parents who died in the Holocaust was not born, and therefore we are trapped on Earth. And that I had never heard anything like that before, and that surprised

me. That meant basically he had my attention from then. All, yeah, that was an interesting concept. I got come from it, you know what you said. And also he kind of alluded to other intelligent people that we killed too many smart people and too many smart people, and you know, oh God, I got in so much trouble after the Key first came out, when these places like the Jeff Rantz Show and stuff discovered that there was some pro Jewish sentiment in it, which I mean, I guess it

is pro Jewish. I didn't think of it that way myself. But boy, I mean there are a lot of people who who don't like that idea. Yeah, it's interesting these people who are adamant against the idea that the Holocaust happened when I don't understand that concept personally. No, I don't either. I think it's deeply evil. I think it's profound evil. It's evil, incarrent. You see evil in its raw form when you see people claiming that the protocols of the Elders of Zion are real, are claiming that the

Holocaust never happened any of that stuff. And you know, we have to face the fact that I didn't do it, and you didn't do it, none of our listeners did it. But it happened. And this, the fact that we're still here isn't isn't the kind of punishment at all. I mean, he doesn't think of it that way at all. Right, We're still here because this happened. It's not our fault. It's just the reality of the situation. They also a lot of people getting every why should we

be punished for a Holocaust? We're not being punished. It's just it's just nature nature, you know. We didn't get this, this guy didn't, this child didn't get born. Therefore we'll still we're still here. Maybe sooner or later another child will be born, or someone will figure gravity out, because until we do that, we are here. Rockets aren't gonna cut it right. Yeah, he gets into well, he gets into a lot of like because you had asked him some questions similar to that about guilt and feeling

guilty and how do we shed that? And he, like you had said, you know, all these things are part of nature. You just have to forgive and move on, which it is pretty profound. I mean statements like that. How much of an effect did this conversation have on you? Did it change the way you think? Huh? That changed my whole life, rocked me to the core, rocked me the core. That absolutely rocked me to the core. I was completely taken by it. That was flabberguest

the things that got There's so many new ideas. I think practically everything I've written since that conversation in nineteen ninety eight has had in some way or another connection to it. The book Superstorm came out of that conversation and then became the movie the day after tomorrow. I don't think the Grays came out of it, but other things certainly did. Other books certainly did it. The latest one, Hybrids, comes right out of this conversation because I had the

eeriest and most wonderful exchange with him about intelligence machines. It was remarkable. And this is because what made it so remarkable, this is a man who's had experience with intelligent machines. He knows what they are, he lives with them, obviously, and my wife thinks he's from the future. She says to me, it's you from the future. And you know, I'm now about maybe ten years younger than he was, so I've got a lot of living to do if I'm going to come back to myself in nineteen ninety eight

from twenty twenty twenty. But I don't know if that's true or not. I have no idea. And that was kind of an interesting statement when you ask him on who are you? You know you're a real person, I'm chair or not? And he was Canadian. Yeah, but he didn't pay taxes. Not a single Canadian who has talked to me about this book has failed to notice that, because if you're a Canadian, you're gonna pay taxes, but not necessarily. And I'll tell you why. There are native tribes

in Canada who do not pay taxes. The Micmac Indians are one of them. And the Mgmoks have a very European look to them. And they might have been they might It might be that Johnson Clair, the Templar leader who apparently came in the thirteenth century to Newfoundland with a group of template exiles from Europe after the burning of Jack de Malay, settled there and inner bread with those Indians, which is why so many of them have a very European look

to them. Now, maybe that's what he was. Maybe that's what he was. And I tried to find out, and I'll tell you this. I did find out one thing. That tribe's got a lot of secrets. They have deep, profound secrets and knowledge that they do not share with outsiders. I also went into the Templar community in Canada, which is a very living part of Mason in Canada. And I never actually met the Master of the Key again, but I wouldn't be surprised if I hadn't talked to people

who knew him. I didn't think he was the angel or anything. He seemed too totally human to me. It was a guy hopefully from this planet, hopefully this time. Maybe he was from the future. I don't though well. And you know, speaking of secrecy, and you know the tribes with their secrets, it's something you talk to him also, and something that you said you were even angered by, something you obviously were not happy with that when you spoke with him. Was the secrecy for instance, with the

entities. You know, of course you're well known for your abduction experiences, them not coming forward and others not coming forward with the information that they're here or the information that they have to the general public. And he kind of spoke to that. Was he able to leave some of that frustrated for you or do you still have it? I think we're in an endgame scenario here.

I think that our world, as the ability to support us, is disintegrating around our ears, and I am frantic for something to help us in some way because, believe you me, in fact, if the hierarchtic is this hot next summer, this coming summer in July and August in September, as it was last summer, methane outgassing in that area of the world is going to become completely go completely out of control, and that is going to

derange our climate even more profoundly and very dangerously. And I just am worried, sick. Frankly, I think that I wish he had given me a lot more practical information, but he gave me so much. And yet, you know how many people read the Key when it was available on my website, about two thousand people. How many people will read the Key once it's out, oh maybe another twenty in the in the bookstores if people pick up on it and tell their friends, which they may or may not do.

But basically, what you find out when you're in a situation like I'm in, of knowing a lot more about what's happening to us than most people do is two things. First, people are going to be in denial. They are gonna not believe you until after it happens. In the second, those who aren't in denial, ninety nine percent of them are completely passive. They are inert, They don't do anything. They simply engage in their daily lives

until they can't do that anymore, and it becomes very frightening. The number of people who are active in this world is minute and the number of active intellectually and politically, et cetera, active people who would entertain these ideas or think that it would even be worth opening a book like the Key is infinitesmal. So I think whatever nature he has in store for us is what's going

to happen. And that's why I'm scared. Yeah, and you know you brought that up in your book and it's something I've thought about too, is that, you know, is the mess weehing completely of our making humans? And if not, does that justify then a third party coming in and helping us? Because you know, when you think of like the prime directive or you know, not to get involved in something obviously something we're being interacted with, and does that justify us getting help? And I'm like you, I

hope so. And do you think that we are being helped at all? Well? I know we are and I can tell you precisely how because you know, my wife is a science editor at a really really good one. She at its unknown country dot com and she does a lot of other things

in that area. And she discovered a paper which indicated that when people are challenged with questions, they can't answer, for example, if they see the surreal work of someone like Franz Kafka, or if they are challenged by something like the UFO enigma, the brain actually responds organically and they become smarter, they become more logical. And this is happening to people all over the world.

The whole UFO phenomenon, the mysterious crop circles, the enigmatic cattle mutilations, the lights in the sky, the seeming threat that never really evolves into anything, of abductions. All of that brings up a question that we cannot answer and that we cannot let go, and that actually changes physically the brain. Everybody who is addressing this in any way whatsoever is getting smarter. Now that's awesome. So certainly somebody is helping us, but you can see here

they're helping us in a very very passive way. They're not actually coming out and trying to change the fur of the river of human fate, as it were. And whether or not they would do that or even be able to, I don't know. I do know that back in the fifties we shot at him, and I know that because doctor Milton Torres his experience that he had as a pilot over Surrey in nineteen fifty seven when he was actually ordered to shoot at a UFO. Was remained completely classified for years, and then

it came out. It was released by the British Ministry of Defense, and doctor Torres came forward and said, yes, it happened. I was ordered to shoot down a UFO and I did go up there. I was getting ready to fire my rockets at it, and I didn't fire them because it disappeared before my eyes. I disappeared off of radar rather. And so when you know they're in the Indian Ocean during the tsunami, there's a little island in that ocean that is protected by the Indian government. No one is allowed

near it. And the reason is that there was a tribe on that island who never sees anybody. They've never had any interaction with anyone, not in thousands of years, probably hundreds or thousands of years. So when the tsunami came, the government was concerned about them and wanted to see if they needed

help, so sent a helicopter to fly around their island. And as the helicopter flew around their island here they came running out onto the beach with their shields and their spears, shaking their spears and firing arrows at the helicopter. And I thought, oh, ohow sweet, oh, you know, it's breaking my heart to see these innocent people. And I thought the whole planet looks like that to the visitors. And no, I don't think they can

land because I don't think there's room for them here yet. We're too crazy right now. We need to calm down. And the best people, the people who can really do this, who God knows who they are. I mean, those of us who at least wouldn't shoot back need to be the ones that are that are on the on the front line. But that's not going to be the way it happens. If the visitors showed up, you can be sure that there would be navy seals, waves of helicopters armed to

the teeth. If they landed, what are they going to do about that? Just leave again? Yeah? Or do like you know, I kind of allude to that the abduction thing. For instance, if we wanted to help those people on the island, we might have to shoot them with tranquilizers and take them up the island when they're out. Well, that's true, And also if you thought that they were going to go extinct, you might take sexual material in DNA and things from them in order to reconstitute the species

somewhere else. You could any All of this stuff works in a kind of basic way. It all makes a kind of sense if you look at it right way. On the one hand. On the other hand, I don't even know what the visitors are. I can't tell you they're from another planet. They never said anything like about that to me, any of them,

and certainly the master of the key if he was from another planet. They speak excellent English, right, And you know that that brings me to you know, John Mack, for instance, in some of these others, I feel like I've seen evidence that you know, at least some of these experiences are very physical. But with your experiences, do you believe because of course John Mack felt these experiences were non physical. Yeah, John and I talked

a lot about that, because I'm in another completely different camp there. I got raped on the night of December of the twenty sixth, nineteen eighty five, and you know, it was so harsh that I still have to be treated for it. I was treated for it about six weeks ago. Because of the damage that was done to my body. And you know that that's that's not an imaginary experience. I didn't have a bad dream. He didn't

have a bad dream the last thirty years. Another thing. In May of nineteen eighty nine, an implant was put into my left ear which is still there. It's still there because it was so technologically advanced that the doctor tried to take it out was unable to do so because it moved down into the bottom of my ear lobe, absolutely under its own power. And he closed the wound because the suits the incision, because he couldn't possibly get it at

that point. And once the incision was closed, three days later, the thing went back up. And I left it there because I didn't know whether it was for its safety or my safety, or both of our safeties that had eluded capture. But it was put in by people, two people. I saw him. I wasn't asleep when they came into the room. They came right into the bedroom in the middle of the night. They incapacitated me. But I saw perfectly clearly before they came. It was a man and

a woman, and there was something behind them. I'd never really I didn't see that, but there was something or someone else behind them, and they were outside too, because as I woke up, I heard a voice in the backyard say condition read, and then I heard them all running away.

Yeah, so it's all it's quite physical at times. Does that mean that it's basically a physical event that is being confused by a lot of non physical effects, or is a fundamentally non physical event that can sometimes putetrate into the

physical. I don't know, right, And it's interesting you talk about the enigmatic, which you know, of course your experiences are in many are Because I just wrote something about I've always felt the trickster and the Native American story that I grew up with were representative of a very similar and enigmatic nature for that purpose to humble less and make us grow. And amongst seasoned researchers in this field, that idea comes out over and over and over again the colleagues

that I speak with. So I wrote about that, and it's an interesting aspect. And I didn't know that it's been proven that dealing with enigmatic issues that makes you smarter. Yeah, but it has. It certainly does, and it's it's working for you. Probably it's just working for all of us whole field. We're gonna end up a bunch of geniuses and then figure out, we'll figure out how gravity works and we'll get the hell out of here just in time. Yeah, yeah, I hope so too. We don't

have too much time. It's kind of scary now, we don't have much time left at all. No, what would you ask to me? If the methane hydrates under the Arctic Ocean start out guessing, then that's the end game. That if they start, if you start hearing reports that the that the high Arctic Ocean is like carbonated water some summer, it's it's bubbling and fizzing. That'sane, And then we're going to go into a cataclysmic climate event

very much like the one that the Master of the Key describes. Because remember, every week, we don't want to feel defenseless and helpless, so no one will say the truth, and that is that has now been amply proved by science, that climate change takes place sometimes as as quickly as thirty days, and stays in a new phase for hundreds or thousands of years, and that we could be up against that. And if we are, then I

can tell you precisely what's going to happen. But it's now the bread basket of the world, the Middle Canada and the Middle United States going to experience a protracted drought and when that happens, basically the world will starve. Basically, some of some kind will be the last to go. I mean, you know us in the Canadians, but the rest of the world has really got a problem. In Europe's a huge problem, China, Russia, they're

all India, the Middle East, they're all fantastically vulnerable. And it could happen in a single season. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty scary. I've seen on shows on the methane and how if that were to happen and the boats that were over these pockets would sink, and the methane gas itself is poisonous, so it's a very scary scenario. It's a very scary scenario, and it happens. It has happened in the past. It is the climax

of every single interglacial And this is another thing. The environmental community is so bent on saying it's all our fault, and then that makes the conservatives, the corporate community say none of it's our fault. But the truth is right in between. This is a natural event. It is a we are moving out of an interglacial into another glacial phase. No one understands quite why that happens, but it does happen, and we have sped up the process by

emitting so much carbon dioxide human beings have. That's that's what we actually have done. And I'm not so sure that pointing fingers really makes any difference, right, you know, I just don't see it. I see it as a natural phenomenon that we should have planned for, rather than gone and sniping

at each other about who's who's to blame. We wasted a whole generation on that when we should have been planning carefully for this event, which we're still not really actively doing much about, not at all, not at all. We are not planning for it in any significant way whatsoever. It's going to happen. Whatever is going to happen, will happen. The dye has already been cast. There's no sense in worrying about planning for it and thinking to

myself, Oh, somebody's got to get do something about this. It's too late. It's going to happen the way it's going to happen, and there's a very complex interaction taking place right now between Earth and Sun, in fact, the whole Solar system that we don't fully understand, because if you've noticed, it's been much colder and much hotter here on Earth in the past couple of years, and weather is extremely violent and very changeable, and we don't

know quite why. We don't know quite why it was so much colder this winter than anyone predicted. It's not part of the global warming models absolutely now. Of course now they say that it is, But if you'd asked them last last summer, they would have said no. But we do know this. We do know that for the past two point eight million years, every one hundred thousand years or so, this planet has moved from a cycle of

warmth the last ten or fifteen thousand years to a long cold spell. And at the period when the change over takes place, carbon dioxide spikes as it is doing, methane spikes even more. And then when the methane boils off

because it's a short lived gas, it doesn't last like carbon dioxide. Suddenly, during that time when they're spiking, apparently something is happening to the Sun. And when the methane is gone, it turns out there's not enough solar heat, and the whole place turns into an ice that goes it turns into ice. You know, it might be that what we're seeing here is our star is getting old and we are the children of an old, old mother.

Yeah. Now, moving to a different object one that I wanted to bring up, The Master of the Key with very critical of the United States in particular, quite a lot about that, how they what an evil empire we've been, especially since the fifty Yeah, well, he sure was, and he was right about that in the sense that he was. What he was he was so concerned about was the way the secrets, secrecy destroys the chance of the soul to grow. And he felt, he said that the

secrecy stops with where the republic starts, I mean secrecy. The republic stops where secrecy starts. Are worth to that effect somewhere in there, And he he is, he is very critical because a lot of things have happened here that have been wrong. This country has been on a has been sitting astride the world for a long time now, and we've made a lot of mistakes.

And those mistakes are going to come homes. But at the same time, and there's a there is a willingness to address the potential of the human spirit here, which is very far from the negative attitudes that he has towards the various governments that we have created, very very different. So and that is, you know, there's a lot about being able to the whole idea of evolution and us what we can do to move on. But what would you say, have you learned what people can do to help mitigate some of

the scary things we're looking at? Well, you know that gets into the whole survivalist thing. You know, I gotta buy hundreds of pounds piece and stuff. This is too big, This is too big. It's going to affect us all in however way it happens to. There isn't any amelioration possible anymore beyond we're past that stage. That was true in the nineteen eighties and even in the in the nineteen nineties, but we didn't do it. Now

it's too late. It's going to just happen the way it happens. So maybe the advice you can take from the masters to cultivate your soul so you're ready for your next adventure. Well, I think that's very clear that mankind is being born. The age of the water, age of a query is everyone was all wonderful, age of peace, and well not so true.

The water carrier pours the water out, and we're the little fish that has been swimming in the water with a little fish of pisces, that's been swimming in the river of the of the world for these last two thousand years. Now the river's dry it up, and look at it. Look at Texas, look at the look at Brazil. The these these places are in maybe not Texas, but certainly the Matto Grosso, the Brazilian rainforest is in a

climactic drought. This is, that is to say, a drought that isn't going to be broken, and that whole forest it's just going to disappear, and with it one of the great oxygenating engines and carbon dioxide absorbing engines on this planet. And that is not that is going to happen. It is happening now. Uh So, what's happening is on an astrological level, the waters are being poured out and the little fish with them, and the little fish ends up on dry land. That's us but we have gills and flippers.

We're not equipped to swim or to do anything on dry land except dry out and die. But this is a big, old, complicated universe, and that ain't the whole story, I can assure you. So are you do you fill in our in your lifetime then, and are possibly in the next few years, prior to perhaps all of the real bad cataclysmic event that we will be able to more immac interact with some of these entities on the

other side, Well, we're interacting with them plenty right now. You should go to my website, and I mean it's not actually visible on the website, but people send us close experiences about close encounters. Every single day. We get we got probably get fifty a week. And these are usually things that have just happened to me last night, last yesterday, after my husband over the weekend. It's happening right now. We are involved in whoever or

whatever they are, they're here now doing their thing. It hasn't it hasn't abated at all. But people have learned it's dangerous to to to to tell friends or to tell anyone, so they have an outlet. They put it up on our on our site, and they can do that anonymously, and so they have at least someone to tell. And so as soon as that

became that, they started in again. You know, I thought, back before we changed the Unknown Country into a new type of website, we redesigned it, I thought, maybe the close encounter experiences are sort of dying out, but they're not at all what the social opprobrium that's associated with them has grown. You can't say that this happened to you around work and expect to be remain there for very long. If you tell people friends, those friends

are going to be laughing at you for the rest of your life. If you tell family, you're going to have likely to have quite a bit of trouble. And if you're it should God forbid, end up in a divorced situation and you've told your husband or wife about your close encounter experiences, you

can expect you ain't going to get the kids. So people circumspect now when it comes to these people having different at accounts, you know, people that seem to believe that they're communicating with some of these things, all of messages. There's kind of a similar line, but there there are big differences. How do you count for the differences in the stories or the communications. Well, first of all, whatever is out there or in here is incredibly complicated,

so many different ways of manifesting its reality. It's very complicated. It's very brilliant, and we are too. I mean, we're very brilliant and we're very complicated. And so you're going to get a whole lot of different every time that interaction takes place. It's going to be different. The fact that you know people they used to make a big deal. Oh, they're all seeing the same uniforms, the same belt buckles. It's scientists from another

planet. I'm sorry. This is just way way different from that. People have all kinds of interactions at all different levels in this thing, and there's a matrix that they follow, certainly, but but it's only it's only a very gen role matrix. It doesn't it's not nearly as focused down as some of the UFO people would like us to believe. It's very much unfocused. And you see all kinds of different things, all kinds of different things.

Yeah, so your website is unknown country. And I noticed in the book, you know, one of the lines that you were even kind of had an effect on you from the Master of the Key was talking about how the backyard, your backyard, could be your undiscovered country. Did you take that line? Did you modify that for your website? I don't think I did.

I think that line. I don't know where exactly what you're talking about, but that line is in there, that you make the undiscovered country your own backyard, right, And you know he was he was incredibly hopeful. He was the wonder that the man was happy. He was really hopeful. He was very hopeful. Yeah, and he you know, I tried to tried to needle him and stuff, and I'm always like that. I used

to try to make the Grays mad to see what would happen. And it isn't something you would want to do, because what they do get mad. It turns out they say, you don't have to try that will get mad anyway. They're easily pissed off. But you know, I, you know, we're getting close to the end of this, and I just like to

bring something up myself because I think it's terribly, terribly important. He said one thing that I think has I have carried with me literally every moment of my life since I heard it. I asked him what sin was, and he said, denial of the right to thrive. I think that is the finest, most illuminating, most helpful definition of what it is to be to

do wrong that I have ever heard. And if you think about that in terms of yourself and those around you, you can have a just a sise change in your whole ethical outlook, and you begin to understand the place that you actually occupy in the world, because the contrapositive of that is goodness, is encouragement of the right to thrive. And you begin to think, how can I help him? How can I help her? Not only how can

I not how can I avoid denying them the right to thrive? But how can I proactively find in my relationship with X a point that will enable them to thrive? And this is the kind of compassion that the Master of the key was talking about. Extraordinary energy there, Yeah, extraordinary well, and it kind of gives me perspective then on, you know how disappointed he was with the United States, because unfortunately, our foreign policy is typically trying to

hamper other countries' abilities to thrive as opposed to the opposite. Well, it is, it's very oriented toward maintaining the United States in terms of its wealth and its power. It's just like the policies of the Roman Empire were, or the British Empire were during the Colonial era. It's actually more like Rome than Britain, because Britain, toward the end of the Colonial era became much more interested in the welfare of its colonies than it had been in the early

part of it. But the Roman Empire was just a frank system of looting where they went out there and they just looted the world. Now in you know, when I'm wearing a pair of sneakers right now, I'm sure you probably are too. Those were probably made by essentially by slave labor and Bangladesh or somewhere by people who are making fifteen or twenty cents a day if that, and who have to work six or seven days a week, ten fifteen

hours a day. And would I wish that on my worst enemy. I wear the shoes, so you know, you wear the shoes, you gotta walk in them. And we may not like it, but in fact our country is the most expert exploiter that has ever existed on earth. And it is very, very unwilling and very pinched when it comes to like foreign aid. Most people in this country hate foreign eight, even though it's two percent

of our budget or something. They just hate it. They hate the idea of like they're willing to let medicaid just go because who cares about the poor? I mean not everybody, but a lot of people. A lot of people in this country are very greedy and very narrow minded. You have to be open to the needs of others, otherwise you cannot even see your own. Yeah, it's a great perspective. I mean, just for all of our conveniences, we've built this machine of exploitation where right, like we live

off of the labor of others. And it is that it's looking at it from that perspective, which is an important one that he gives that. You know, we've got a lot to work on, that's for sure. Yeah, we do. It's a great He gives us a very, very great, significant moral challenge. That's a moral challenge that you know, he really

lays down the gauntlet. But at the same time, he lays it down in the context of the fact that great energy can come from living a compassion and thoughtful life, much more than we realize and That gets back to what's going to happen if these catastrophes become general, as they very well may. Our only chance, of sir, is to become much more helpful and cooperative

and open to others. And hope they do the same, because if we get into real trouble like this of environmental trouble, the only thing that's going to save the little fish and teach him to walk and breathe dry air is if he figures out how to help himself. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Yep, we are out of time, and I hope people I get the book. I'm sure they will, you know. And it's not like it's a difficult read. It's an easy read,

and it's very enlightening. I mean the bank for the bunk. It's very efficient, Thank you. It's it's the most extraordinary and the energetic thing I personally have ever read. And I cannot recommend it enough. If I did one thing in my life that was really worth doing, it was transcribing that guy's words, and I'm so glad I managed to do it. Well. I'm glad you add so much of yourself in here, because I don't think I've read anything I've read the other of your work that is so even communion,

but this is so personal. It's a great insight into you as a person, and so it's very revealing and very bold. It is a brave thing to write. Well, thank you all right. So it's a great

talking to Whitley as usual and very interesting interview and interesting book. In order to get the book, you will want to go to either his site which is unknown country dot com and he's got a link for it there, and then the book site is m O t kbook dot com, motkeybook dot com, m O t kbook dot com or just go to unknown country dot com and you will find it there. Well, thank you for listening to the show this week. It was a lot of fun and very interesting. Next

week is a lot of fun and very interesting. We're going to have Nancy Talbot and Robert vandenbroke back and of course, you know, very interesting stuff. I trust Nancy implicitly. She's the number one science crop circle researcher. She does great work. And there are some crop circles out in Holland and some other weirdness happening, including the first scientific proof of burned circles, so

she's going to share that with us. This is an exclusive. We're lucky to be able to get her and Robert on Robert of course connecting all the way from Holland. So thanks for listening. We are out of time. Don't forget to check Openminds dot tv for more UFO news and we'll talk to you next week. To Trap to T T trip