UFO Roundtable on Unidentified and Recent UFO Revelations - June 11, 2019

Mmm, Hello and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin Digi Willis Digi Digi. Wow? Did yous kind of like digital because you're like the town dig dude? What do you call your failure? Oh? Tech? No failure? Oh yes, jeez you We can talk more about that later. Yeah. I mean essentially what you're talking about, of course, is there were some technical difficulties with your interview recently with Louise Elizonda. But those are fixed now and

we'll get into that. But I do want to talk to introduce the show to people who haven't listened before, and we are getting lots of new listeners. Martin, this is exactly, but we cover credible UFO news in a journalistic manner, so we looked at the substantiated, credible information, and we do look at some of the speculation, but we let you know if it's

speculation. Whereas you know, in this field, there's tons of crazy speculation that is kind of you know, sold as gospel, but there's a lot we don't know, but we're we're looking into that and there's a lot more substantiated information these days it's an incredible time for credible information in this field. But we also review the news the headlines in this story at the beginning of

the show, and then we'll be doing that in a second. That will this first segment, and then the last two segments will be our guests. However, we do have guests as opposed to just one guest on the show,

so this is really exciting. We've got a bunch of guys who have been following all of this whole Unidentified television show on the History Channel and this Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program Secretive Group of the Pentagon to investigate UFOs, and so I brought these guys on on a panel to kind of review my interview with Luise Elizondo and Martin's and some of what's going on. So some of

these guys are Mike Demante of Punk Rock and UFOs. We've got Joe Murghia of UFO Joe dot Net, and then we've got Danny Silva of the Silva Record. So this is gonna be a lot of fun. Wow. Great, I'm just so sorry I missed it. I know you were going to be there and there, but that didn't work. That was too bad. I had to go out on the boat. But getting into the news. You know, one of the things that both Martin and I have gotten to

do fortunately recently is interview Louise Elizondo. He's done several interviews with Fox News, CNN, all these big news They were a Good Morning America. But the UFO people, you know, people who are kind of more into the topic and more educated on the details, haven't been able to get to interview them in quite some time. And Martin and I did get to, so

we got to ask some specific questions. We also coorinated a bit to make sure that our questions were not overlapping, which was a good thing I think, because then we were able to get in more questions because we both had limited time. But Martin, I think that I mean, I know there were some technical issues. I was teasing you about that, but I mean

your interview was still great. Well, well, thank you. Yes, I have no idea what happened, and it's just like, uh, you know, I wrote a blog about it on my website just because it was so unreal what happened. It was like a curse. I did. I did, indeed pull it off, but I had no idea while I was doing it, if if I was pulling it off or not. And the reason being is, well, anyone can go over to my website. Do you mind if I give it out? Oh of course, I always plug

your website. Yeah, PODCASTUFO dot com. You can see my blog and I go into detail what happened, but I mean kind of yeah, let's not. I won't go into detail here. Yeah, because it doesn't matter. I mean, you got the interview out and you've done something really cool, and I want to make sure people know this. You re edit it

where you fix the audio essentially what your questions are. So if some people are too annoyed by the YouTube with that, you know, with your voice essentially being really low, there you've edited and fixed it where there's another version where it's all clean. And luckily, Luise Elizondo, because I tuned in, he came across great. I mean you could hear his voice very clearly. Yeah, And after the interview was over, I did go in and listen because I know this is hard to believe. I had no idea what

he was saying. I could just barely really, Yeah, the audio was so so hard coming in that I could I was guessing when he was done with a sentence before I'd asked my next question. So it was it was really, really quite a challenge, and it's just I think my studios haunted. I think that's I'm not in my studio studio now and that's why you hear me, right, because stuff is working. Yeah, but you know,

it's funny. The whole thing almost fell apart on both of us, and you know, you pulled it together, you know, I mean we both got to notice that the interview was off, and yeah, we were able to reach it. Let's get into the details of the interview. Actually, yeah, uh, because I think people find that more interesting than how

we did it. But the details of your interview, how did you feel about the answers he gave you and what were some of the uh, what was some of the information that you felt was most shocking or or interesting. Well, first of all, I asked him right off the bat about Keith Klare's article in The inceptor I think that's the name of it, Intercept and intercept. Yes, thank you, and so I think he you know, he answered the only way he could, because how can you defend you know,

it's just one of those questions. How can you defend a question like when a says this Keith Klure getting into the details so people know what it is. He wrote an article and essentially he heard from a spokesperson with the DoD. You said, uh, And I think the verbiage is important. That Luise Elizondo had no responsibilities to a tip. That's essentially what he had said, And of course detractors, people like Chlora, took that as saying

he didn't work for a tip at all. In the meantime, we've had another DoD spokesperson already confirm months ago, back in December twenty seventeen to Brian Bender of Politico, that he did work for a tip. And let alone, we have all the people who work for a tip saying yes, lou worked for a tip. But go ahead say well, I think actually, I think what you just said there is almost more important than a spokesperson as

other people that say they actually worked with him. You know, even David Fraber mentioned in twenty fourteen that you know, he worked with him or talked

to him as part of that program. And so I think that's just as important with all these people saying yeah, I remember him there, you know, I mean as a spokesperson, because you know, we may not always get the straight scoop from any spokesperson you know, involved in the government, you know, the way it is, right, So so I thought that, you know, he answered that as best he's as best he could and basically ended it with saying, you know, hopefully in the future everything will

come out and you know, he'll you know, people will see the other side of it. But you know, I mean, what what is he going to do produced documents or you know, thattter classified. He can't do that. So and then you know, I just thought the the his questions, he answered all my questions, I thought, very well, very thorough and again he's not the thing I really like about him. He's not you know, trying to force anyone to believe, you know, what he's saying.

He just he just puts it out there and then you can decide. But I totally any little tiny bit of doubt I had about him has gone. Now. I totally believe he is who he says he is and and and all that. So I was really thrilled that I did get that that specifically, do you feel that you you know your doubts are gone because of the answers to his question to your questions. You know, it's kind of I think it's more the fact that I've just I've looked at everything you know

that I can find and read and and different opinions on both sides. There's like two camps like there is about everything today and uh and just kind of taking it all in and then and then actually getting to beat him in person. I don't know, I just feel as though he's solid. I don't feel as though I don't have any thoughts of negativity about him saying what he

is. I mean, I don't understand what the motives would be if that's the case, or you know, some people are claiming he's a disinformation agent. And one of the questions I did ask him because people were asking me to ask him, and that was you in any way or any capacity a government contractor currently? And he started laughing. He said, well, I sure wish if I was, I was getting paid for it, you know, So there's there's you know, that's just one of the questions that we're

out there. I don't know, you probably got a flot of questions as well from people oh yeah, and then you started asking me questions. You're like, I can't. I have already too many questions. Maybe have Alandro, And I'm like, what, don't send them to me. I already have a ton, so I know, And actually some of them you head forwarded me. I did want to ask, but I don't know that I

even I might. I don't think I got into those. But you know why I asked you why you believe him, because there's twofold I mean, when you meet someone and talk to someone, there's their character, and you're trying to make judgments off of character. Of course that's more subjective, but I've always got the sense that, you know, he's this genuine guy, and of course I speak to him fairly regularly, and he's also you know, gets emotional about some things. He gets frustrated by some things, and

it's they're very natural responses. And I think that when you meet him, or when you hear him answering these questions like he answered for us, there's no indication there where he's pausing to make something up or to liar, to fabricate. He tackles the question. Sometimes he feels a little exasperated, you know, by the question, but it'll tackle it and try to answer it

honestly, and they come across that way. So if he was some sort of still governing, you know, this was some part of some conspiracy, he'd have to be an incredible actor. But you know, let's put all that aside and just look at the straight data, even if you look at the data itself. That's why I feel unfortunately, and I'm you know, it's a lot of the people like Klare Clare has gotten kind of in these online battles, well with me because he's attacked me on on Twitter, but

also with Brian Bender, who wrote that a political article article. And Bender has been pretty plain that hey, dude, you did not do your job. You were obvious spinning. And that is a fair assessment, especially from someone in journalism, because sure Sherwood did make that statement, but the statement is not clear. We know that there is only limited information a PAO officer

has. We know this through our own history, but we also Brian Bender, who's questioning that, also knows because he's worked in defense his whole he was a war correspondent. He's worked writing about defense, just like Tyler Rogaway, you know. But even more of a history at least working with Well. I can't say that for sure, but just to say he's very seasoned. He's an editor, for goodness sakes, for Politico on these topics, so he would understand that, you know, you have to take some of

that information. They Out of everybody involved with this whole situation, the PAO of the DoD is going to be the least informed. It's just the way it is. I mean, this is a someone who's not an officer, who's not been involved with all of these secret projects or these situations. We know from read that they tried to keep it as very hush hush as possible. Then we have a host of other people, including another spokesperson, who is all confirmed that Louise worked for a tip. So I mean, it's

disingenuous to ignore all of that and not mention it. If you're writing a story. It's great to write a story about Sherwood. I don't even mind. I love that people are trying to look for the holes and try to find the information around it. We need the truth. But when you write a story, you've got to be honest, and you've got to say Sherwood said this However, we have a host of information that says otherwise, So why is there this discrepancy? That would be the question, and that is

the way the question should be posed. It shouldn't be an accusation and oh, look, this is evidence these people are lying, and that's the stance that was taken. Unfortunately, and you know, some of these detractors who have been very vocal about all of this and are kind of saying, oh, we're just you know, innocently. No, I mean, the main person behind all of this got upset with me even in trying to say that I believe that one of these documents that turned out to be real that the

DoD said wasn't real and then had to change their story. Sherwood had to change his story and say, oh, I was wrong. You know, he got mad at me for even implying or suggesting that this document was real, and that's very frustrating. Also, Sherwood, out of everybody, has the worst track record. He's been wrong in the past. And I don't even mean to criticize him so much because he has limited information. But still, you've got to be honest about all of the data on the table and

all the data on the table. Thus far has been has shown that all these major players, you know NAP, you know, some of the other people, the people involved with a TIP have been accurate, people like Melan Louise I mean, their statements have all turned out to be accurate. Let me ask you this, Alejandro, what what could lou Alessando do to prove or does not even really care what people think. What could he do to prove that he did work for a TIP and that was he was heading a

tip? Well, you know during that time. It's very very simple and it's already done. So there is a document out there that already proves this. There's a document that was a memo from Harry Reid that was actually it was a petition essentially for a TIP to get SAP status, which is Especial Access Program status. These are the black projects, black projects. The real

term is SAP Special Access Program So these are the top secret projects. What that allows them is more secrecy for what they're doing, but it also allows them to be able to request to get information from other special Access programs. That's what they were seeking. They didn't get approved for that, however, George Knapp leaked out this document that shows that this was what they were looking for. And Harry Reid has confirmed that is a real document. That was

a document I used to try to get SAP status. Now the names were redacted in that document, but because of all of this to do with Sherwood's recent statement in Color's article, George Knapp unredacted and he got permission to do this from Luis Elizondo and from how put Off and I've seen this document as well, unredacted, and so you know those people are listed as people that

are part of the program. So he re released it showing that how put Of and Louise Aleixando were part of a tip boom that shows they were part of a tip Not only that, the reason why he put how put Of is because how put Of has been telling people and I've gotten this from how himself saying that yes, Alizondo was part of the program. When I went to the Pentagon, I reported to him essentially, so what you need,

all you need. You it's not even necessary to have an official document to be honest, I mean that is something that we want to look for, touh, but to have confirm the people who were involved, to confirm that credible people who we know were involved. That's just as good. So what would be helpful going forward is maybe a direct statement from Harry Reid, and

I do not doubt that we're probably going to get that. What else would be helpful is then people sharing this information with Sherwood, because Sherward's issue is he just doesn't have the information. I've been saying he should have said, according to the information I have, Luise Elsondo did not have responsibilities to a tip because he should have put that caveat in there because he doesn't know for sure if he would have said, you know, I know definitely lou did

not work for a tip. Well, then he's claiming that all these people are a lying his predecessor, you know, everybody with a tip. He's claiming all these but that's not what he's saying, essentially saying, I don't know any better. This is all I know. So he's being educated. I've sent him information I know others have, and there is word that he

is examining this information and will be coming out with a modified statement. So I think we're going to see him once again come out with a statement that Okay, I didn't have all the information. Now I have more and here's what I found. That's what we should be looking for. And everybody keeps saying, oh, look this, this is evidence that the Flair videos were not from the DD because this guy said that, you know, this is

evidence of this and that. And then later, when he's educated and documents come out to show otherwise, they make a statement, oh, okay, we admit that a TIP was part of UFOs. The DoD did release those Flair videos. So I mean, come on, Like I've said, there's a pattern here. They the DoD says something counter to something we know,

or at least indicating something that is counter to something we know. They're educated, then they come out and say, okay, they don't say we were wrong specifically, but they are they were because they come out and say, oh, we got new information and indeed this was the truth. What Lou and the ATIP guys have been saying was the truth. And we've seen this pattern over and over and over again. So, like I put in one

tweet, what's the definition of insanity? You know, at this point you might even be able to say it's insane to just take sure words word for it without more information. Because every single time they've had to change their statement. So I think we have an abundance of information. We may get more. At this point, we need to move on because this is a waste of time to part to rehash this one question where we already know the answer, whereas and we should get into some of the news. There's a lot

of great information still coming forward. Yeah, just one last thing. On the redacted letter from George Knapp, I someone had written me a note that that pre dated Lou Alizondo's claim. Is that is that so I mean that, Well, no, that's not true at all. In fact, the document does say Lou was involved with a TIP, and and Lou has said he was involved with a TIP. You've got to read and it is confusing, and I don't blame people. I've got an article that's called from ASAPP

to a TIP. ASAP was the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program. A TIP was the second program, which was the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, And it was very confusing, and that's why I written this article. And I don't think anybody's broken it down to this level. And I interviewed the people to find out what happened. Essentially, there was ASAP, which was covering all the paranormal researching Skinwalker that right when it started, people didn't like

it. There were especially religious factions saying, hey, this is demonic stuff. We can't do this. So they started a subgroup called a TIP that focused just on military UFO cases that they hoped would survive. That's what lou came to be involved with, involved with at first not run and then so they were right, ASAP was just not palatable to those inside, so it went away, and then a TIP luckily survived and they were able to continue

to investigate UFOs and then in twenty ten, Louise took it over. So does it predate when Lou's ran a TIP, Yes, but it doesn't predate his involvement with a TIP obviously because he's listed there. I got it. Okay, thanks for that clarification. It is confusing, so I'd recommend people read that article. And that's why my first question to lou when I interviewed him was, you know, as far as you know, because he's looked at that story, that is accurate, right, and he said, yeah,

it is. And the way he wrote when he first read that story, he said, oh my gosh, that's crazy accurate. He's like, I don't even know where you got out of that information, because I don't feel like I gave you all that information. He's like, that's the most accurate telling of the story i've seen. Those were his remarks to me, which, of course I felt very proud of that, because I just want

to help clarify all this situation for people. One other thing I want to say, and I know we don't have much time here to talk about anything else, but one thing I have to say is the New York Times. There's hardly any journalistic media out there that does as much research and vetting as a New York Time before Times before they publish a story. That's they're extremely careful exactly, so if you're questioning their facts, you better have your stuff

together. And so far people who have questioned him have been wrong. And even I thought, well, what they wrote in there doesn't necessarily fit the timeline. But if you read my story I just mentioned, yes, what they wrote does even fit the timeline, and I even answer why they excluded the afset part, and that's in my story. But another person who did the research was Politico and Brian Bender I've had some discussions with him, and

he's tweeted this recently. He talked with generals, He talked with a bunch of high level officials inside the government when he caught wind of a tip's existence, and he verified through these people before twenty seventeen that a TIP existed. He said, the sentiment was ATIP exists, they wanted to start this program. I said, okay, do what you want, but I don't want anything to do with it because it's too crazy. So Bender talked and he

tweeted this. He talked to very many officials, So I mean, it's well well well established at this point. A TIP exists what we need to do. And you know, you wouldn't have the Navy talking to these guys which we're going to see and unidentified that we wouldn't have a television program based on these guys that were the Navy is working on it. I mean,

you know, essentially, it's so well established at this point. I think it's it's kind of silly to be wasting our time with it, to be honest, I mean, we got to move on, right And speaking of moving on, I think we're almost out of time, aren't we. Yep,

gotta move on, you know that eighty song. But one of the articles I want to mention too in the news, because I did post news at the front page of Open Minds dot TV is won by Task and Purpose, which is a great journalist who actually talked to the Navy and the Air Force about their thoughts, and the Navy said, well, there's a prolifilation of drones out there, so we don't know what some of these uabs may be or UAPs UFOs, and then an Air Force guy said, but you

know what, drones probably don't have that sort of long range capability, so it's kind of interesting. We've got this conversation about going on about this stuff. So that's a great article. A number of other great articles. But thank you Martin so much. You bet. I can't wait to listen to the roundtable. I'm sorry I missed it. Yeah, that's to be there. Yeah, we're hoping Martin could join us, but it didn't work out. But thank you so much. Let's go ahead and listen to that roundtable

after this break. I am super happy to welcome back on the show, but this time all at once, our expert panel on a tip and to the stars. We've got Joe Murghia also known as UFO. Joe Hey, Joe, Hey, hell Hungo, thanks for having me, my pleasure, so happy you guys could all make it. But we've got also got Mike Demante of Punk Rock and UFOs. Thanks for having me again. It's good to finally talk to some of you guys quote unquote in person. Yeah,

how cool is that? And then finally Danny Silva, who runs the Silver Record what's good, Aleejandro, thank you for having me. I'm ready to do this all right, We're ready to rock, So this is gonna be fun. I guess the first thing I want to mention now, I think did all of you get to hear my interview with Lou? I think, Mike you said you didn't yet. No, no, not yet. Cool, so we'll be able to give you some information from it that you are

not aware of. But of all the things in the interview, and the first thing I'd like to talk to you guys about that shocked me the most. And you know some of us have even talked about this on Twitter publicly. But when I asked him about the crash retrieval stuff, mainly because I'm really skeptical about crash retrievals in the first place. And of course I've put a lot of effort into investigating Roswell and the others, and you know,

it's mostly anecdotal information. We don't have a whole lot there. But then, as you all know, Eric Davis is a proponent that there are crash retrieval programs out there, and I asked him about that a few weeks ago. I think you all have talked to him about that too, some of you so. But with Davis, it doesn't surprise me. I've heard him go there. He goes into lots of really wild areas. But I was shocked with Lou. I wanted some clarification around his statements on news, Fox

News and other places. And I kind of had had this idea that it was just his personal opinion that there might be programs out there. But then I said, but this is something you can't prove, right, And he said, no, I wouldn't say that. So to me, means if it was if he was hard pressed, if for some reason somebody put the screws on him and he had to out, you know that there is a crash project, that he would be able to provide evidence to prove that there

is indeed a UFO crash program. That to me was probably the most shocking thing up to the group go ahead. I don't think there's any way that the government that isn't holding some of these pieces, especially with to the stars openly talking about the Adam project. The government definitely has stuff, and the question is do they have a whole craft or large pieces or did they have

small pieces? But help put off kind of let the cut out of the bag when he said to George Knapp on Coast to Coast he said a whole craft would be highly classified. So I felt like that was a big hint. Mm hmm. What about you? What do you guys see? I'm

amazed that, you know, he didn't just say no comment. I'm not prepared to talk about that on Tucker Carlson because he's he's done that in the past plenty of times when when it's a question he doesn't like he can't answer, he'll say, I'm going to defer and just leave that one alone.

But on a national news broadcast cable cast, he's basically telling everybody in the world that the government has pieces of a craft and then Eric Eric Davis, alad, what were Eric Davis's exact words, because he it seemed like he even expanded on materials. He said, what was the word he used?

Davis? Well, I can't remember in particular, but the gist of what he told me when I kind of was plugging him on this and he went into this really long tension about how he knows this is that it is secondhand information. He essentially said, when you work on so many top secret projects, you run across a lot of people and in the back, you know, when you're talking, they begin to when people begin to trust you,

they start to share information. So, and why I bring that up is so the details are murky and still a bit you know about what he knows are exactly what he's been told. But yeah, I mean it sounded like craft and pieces type of stuff, actual crashes. Yeah, it definitely sounded that way to me. One of the reasons why for us or you know, people are into this suff the kind of phone on the radar, because this is stuff we've been hearing for years. But it's still interesting to see

him just kind of drop that comment. You know, Yeah, we've been hearing it for years. I think what. It's just. Hearing it from Elizondo is a little different for me at least because he was actually in the Pentagon, and I'm used to over the years hearing because i mean I've known, you know, since Skinwalker. Davis is a guy who had the weird experience at Skinwalker. You're used to hearing some weird stuff from Davis over the years, I guess, is how I'll put it, even how put off.

I mean, he started doing remote viewing and everything, so he's been into some odd topics. But then to hear that backed up, it's pretty shocking. To be honest, I'm still a bit skeptical. You know, what do they I mean, a crash to me means an aircraft of some sort or some sort of craft actually crashing and retrieving. I mean, that would be a lot of material that would be retrieved. What's crazy about this is that everyone is saying that's across the board. Diana Pasoka, Jacques Vala,

to the Stars, Eric Davis, louiell A, Zondo. You know, even people that don't agree, like Stephen Greer, I think, would probably say that. So it's not just coming from one source, It's coming from everyone, and it is hard to believe, but once you start hearing it from everywhere, you know, I'm pretty certain of that fact. Now it's go ahead. It's just it seems like it's a coordinated effort, and

that's conspiratorial. They all got together, but it's like all of a sudden, within a month or so, it's like every one of them are saying, yeah, you know, they're talking about us having craft, and they didn't talk about bodies yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's somewhere down the line. And then you know, it's like, what do you think, I mean, you think it's just random. I mean that aleixandle is bringing us up on Tucker Carlson. I think so Tucker asked him, and

I don't think that it was impressed him on it. And I don't think that they coordinated questions. I would doubt that, And that part definitely didn't sound like it. I mean, typically those appearances are really hectic, where you know, they're like, we gotta get you on. You know, it's enough just trying to get the person in the right seat with the camera

in front of him, Lettling coordinating other things. So and I think we can tell that by some of the clothes that lou is wearing when he does some of these interviews that he's just kind of rushing over and getting in front of the camera. But some of his outfits, you guys, gotta admit some people have teased him about it, but they're pretty interesting. I'll wear it backwards hat every once in a while. Not, actually I probably won't. I'm not gonna fault him for it. No, I'm not gonna fault

him. It's just funny, yeah, right, not with a suit. It's it's kind of endearing. And while we're on this topic, just to tease the show a little bit, uh, yeah, there was a scene that we thought was really funny with the beginning where he goes to talk to Kevin Day and he's got that giant backpack for no apparent reason. I think he planned on maybe possibly sleeping out in the backyard and I don't know. That's what I was thinking. Is he going to camp out in the yard?

I don't know what's going on here, but that was pretty funny. But sorry, to get back to the more serious point, crash retrievals. Yes, I think that, but I personally feel that We've heard this all over the years. What's new and why we're hearing a lot of things brought up again is that now we have this guy who worked in the Pentagon working on this stuff, and so now all of these topics get brought up because we're kind of throwing the stuff against the wall. What about this? What

about that? What about this? And to find out what he knows about some of these things that other people have shared. It's not too surprising that he would. To me, I feel that there's enough evidence that there is a CRASH project. Now he may be getting all of his info from Davis, because we have to remember Lou was not a UFO guy till two thousand and nine or ten, and when he got into OSAP Slash a Tip and

Bigelow was essentially the main contractor mostly running stuff by then. So Lou would have them began working very closely with the Bigelow group essentially you know, Dave and put Off, so they would be very influential on you know, what his views would be on this field. I think you guys agree with that, Yeah, definitely. And you know Bigelow has the pieces. According to the New York Times, and they may not be in Vegas, but there

it sounds like they got them somewhere. And it's just, you know, like I said earlier, if all these private people have them, the government definitely does. And so I found sorry, go ahead, Danny, that's okay. I found the quote where he did Davis gave to James Ian Dolly. It said Luis Alexando's brief answer to Tucker Carlson's question about whether the US government is in possession of recovered crash and landed UFO technology hardware is one thousand

percent accurate. So those are the words Davis used. Alexond used those words. So it's going just a little further UFO technology hardware. So like to me, I'm thinking maybe it's just a piece, but that sounds like a little more than that. And it's funny with Danny just said about you know, we talked about the Allys in the New York Times article, and I think Leu said, well, the reporter got that wrong. It wasn't Allys, it was meta materials. But Leslie Keene was on an NPR show the

other day and that was brought up. The person read the Metal Allies part and Leslie did not she didn't say, well, we got it wrong. It's not metal alloyes. She's stuck with that story, and she's kind of and she was kind of implying that that's what it was. And she didn't back down and say, well, yeah, it's mad materials. She's stuck with. She didn't say anything about that. So I'm kind of curious. Wish she impressed on that point. She wasn't pressed. She wasn't pressed.

He just read the article and mentioned metal allies and she said, we stand by our reporting. M H. What can't be tough, I've done. Science reporting is really difficult because you've got to take these complex scientific concepts and boil them down for the public to understand. And and sometimes you know, and the scientists want accuracy more than anything. They don't want it to seem like they don't even understand their own programs when other scientists look at it.

And it's hard, and this is why scientists don't like to talk to the media. And it sucks because I think that's why they've got such a bad name right now. But so I could see how they were trying to But the difference is alloys. That's a very important scientific difference, uh an alloy, Yeah, it's gonna and other people have made this argument, you know, not reflect something unusual, whereas a meta material or something like that would

possibly. I think it's all the same terms. Doctor Gary Nolan has been the forefront of this, and they called it alloys. And then I think doctor Nolan, you know, was saying he coined the term to start calling it meta materials M and now that started to confuse people. And now doctor Nolan has said, well, let's stop calling them meta materials, let's call them ul ultra materials. But it's all just terms, I think at the end of the day, and I think the New York Times was probably describing

the same thing, right, Yeah, that's a really good point. Now when we're on the topic of Davis and put Off, you know, obviously, and we'll talk about this a little. I don't want to really disparage characters, you know, people too much personally, but there's of course this group of people who seem hell bent on taking to the stars down. What's interesting about this is that these people are people who have been in this field for so long, they've been wanting to get information out. Now, when

people get information out, they bash those people as it's just weird. It seems like this is what they wanted but instead of and it would be different if they were being fair, because I think that's great if you're being fair, but this isn't fair. And one of the things that they've hinted at is going at the credibility of Davis and put Off. And like I've said, even I sometimes can kind of take some of the things with a grain of salt, just because you know, they've been I'm used to them talking

about these really weird things. But these guys are very well established. Like Davis has said, he's worked on very many projects with very many different companies that are secret and continues to do that. He's definitely a respected engineer who's implanted into that community. He's established himself. Same with put Off. Put Off all the way back in the seventies, started working on government projects.

Sure they were weird, including psychic phenomena. But that psychic program that he worked with the CIA and the Stanford Research Institute on existed for years and was recreated in different military brand. Uh. And you know, law enforcement was relying on this remote viewing project that they did, so he obviously is very established as well inside of you know, working even on fringe topics with government

agencies. So these guys are very well established. I think it's going to be you might be able to call some of the things they say and to doubt, but you're not, i think, going to be able to completely destroy their their connections and their you know, relationships inside. I'm sorry, I was gonna I was gonna add something to that kind of what you were saying earlier about we're talking about the you know, the disparancy between like meta

materials and other things that are called. So this is what's happening right now is the detractors are basically nidpicking on little words and they're just blowing it up. And I've never seen anything like this in any other form of study, especially you know, my experience in journalism, and like you know, you see Brian Benner going after these people on Twitter because he's an actual journalist who covers national security and politics and I'm pretty sure, you know, some of

those topics have even more, even more avenues to go down. But yet he's having to defend these things that he probably shouldn't even have to be defending, and a lot of times, you know, in journalism, which is kind of a Some people may may not agree with this, but we rely a lot on official titles, which is necessarily a bad thing. But these official official titles, if they're saying something that's not credible, then they're the

ones who have to pay for it later. But nothing these people have said so far is not credible. So there, their titles alone led them to be trustworthy. And the stuff they've they've been saying, it's been backed up. So they're gonna find every little thing to nitpick in twist to try to fit, try to fit this narrative that somehow Louill Zondo isn't who he isn't who he he claims to be, or whatever other you know, theories that they're pushing out, or this is all to push a TV show, which

is the dumbest thing I ever heard. So it's just interesting how they're latching on to these little words here and there and they're just blowing them up. Yeah, to that point, I think that's why they really focus in on and pick on me the most, because I am a bit of the runt of the litter. I mean, I have the least credentials, you guys like go at them face forward more, but you know, head on. But I mean, I don't have the credentials of a Brian Bender, of

a Leslie Kane, of a George Nap. But but it's bled over because I was I was accusing them of What you're saying is that Leslie's got it wrong, George has got it wrong. When you're calling into question the quotes that I'm getting from George and Leslie, then you're calling them into question, and now it's kind of become more of a full frontal attack on George and Leslie Kane as well. But yeah, I wanted to hear Joe because you've

been you know, deep and heavy in all of this too. I mean, the fact that we have Brian Bender going at these people is amazing. I mean, the guys, the credibility of political defense writer is just couldn't ask for more to have him involved. And he gets down and he gets

down to Louis and goes at these people. But it's like, yeah, if you believe you, you have to discount George Knapp, Leslie, Keene, Ralph Lumandahal Helene cooper Al put off Eric Davis, all people Harry Reid who've talked about working with Alessando, and it's like, so all those people are a lying and we're supposed to believe you, And you said it's weird. Yeah, I don't get it either. I've seen I mean, I've

seen de Bunkers, so that's part for the course. But when people have spent decades researching UFOs, those are the people who are going after Alessando and TTSA and a Tip. I don't get it. I don't know if it's ego or it's jealousy. I know Lou touched upon the jealousy and said, there's no reason to have jealousy. We're all looking we're all striving for the same same you know, same thing. We just want to we want to

get the truth. We want to get this information out, and it just it's just a it's a drain having to deal with people within the community. It's just a waste of time to tell you the truth. Here's another thing. People don't realize that these aren't rogue journalists. They work for organizations that have to vet and approve of every source and everyone they talk to first. So the editors have to trust their sources too, So it's not just Napp and Keen saying, hey, I'm gonna do this story. It has to

be approved, the source step be approved. That's every large every large publication operates that way, exactly, exactly. Yeah, that's what you know. I think a lot of people don't realize that, you know, these aren't some you know, journalists coming out of the woodworks and they're doing this on

their own. No, they're getting approval by their company, and a lot of times, you know, they're working for obviously they're working for uh, you know, a news organization is also a corporation's corporate interests as well. So I don't think they would be risking potential advertising revenue or readership if they

didn't think that the story was credible or that the sources are credible. Right, and for something for a topic like this, which you know, to the mainstream, maybe you know, kind of kind of out there, but still we've got you know, Kevin Klory is one of the journalists writing. Of course, he's kind of been very anti to the stars, and I think that Brian Bender has called him out and I agree, and I think that the problems with his story are more stark for those of us who are

in journalism because there were some rules that were broken. I mean, sure he did get an information from the d D, from the spokesperson that Surewood said that, you know, lou didn't have any responsibilities towards a tip that is a you know, that is something to write about. That's a piece of news. You know, he should be writing an article about that.

But the problem with that article, if you look at it in an unbiased way, is to say, well, the spokesperson's saying that, However, we have a lot of credible information that says the opposite, So what's the problem here, and writing an article about that is fine? But he totally did not include any of all of this credible information. So he didn't do his due diligence in that article, which is why to a journalist it's obviously has a bias. All of this is what Brian Bender has been calling him

out. So let's look at Brian Bender. Brian Bender has no loyalty to any of these people. He's talked about some of his skepticisms and problems with things, but you're right, he's working for Politico as a defense editor. He has a lot on the line. If he says something that is not that or even if he's perceived as being biased, he could get in a

lot of trouble and it would hurt his credibility. So not only that, when Bender is talking, at least for me and you probably feel the same way, Mike, maybe you guys others, you sit and you listen because you're learning. You're learning how it's done. And he made some great points. You don't go to foya if you're with Politico. For instance, I contacted Sherwood, I've contacted I've gone to the media inquiry lines to get ahold

of these people. That's where you go. You go straight, and that's where they want you to go to talk to these POA or PAO people. You don't put in a foya. You put a foya in when all else fails and you know you're not going to get anything from it for maybe months or years, so you go direct. That's why you don't see the foyas So Brian Bender, you're learning. This is how journalism is done. Leslie Kane, maybe you can be a little critical of her because she's written a

UFO book and she's written about UFOs. But the article was in the New York Times, Like she said, it was well vetted, and New York Times is known for vetting their articles. I mean, even Tyler Rogaway said New York Times just got this stuff handed to him. I don't agree with that. They did some work. I've interviewed Leslie several times. I know and I know her. I know the work that they did. Who's another

journalist that's been called out, Oh, George Nap. George Knapp. You can cast some doubt on him because he's been writing about paranormal stuff for a long time. But at the same time, I think that shows that he has even more skills at being credible. Because he's written about all of this stuff for a long time, he's walked that gray line, you know, putting his credibility at risk. But to this day he has not been called

out or has not displayed any overt biasedness. Instead, he's written great stories that win awards. He's won so many damn awards it's crazy. So this is obviously someone who's skilled enough to look at these situations and be a credible, you know, report in a credible way. So none of these people, they're all pretty bulletproof, especially when it comes to the goofy people who are the detractors. So I mean, like you say, the credibility weighs

heavily on the side of these credible journalists. You know, we jump in a real quick and here's the thing people don't another people don't realize too, is that just because you have expertise does not mean a when's to a bias. Just because Wesley Kean's written books on UFOs doesn't mean there's a perceived bias in her writing the story. If you look the New York Times story,

I even, you know, I interviewed Rob Plumitthal. I was, you know, I was gonna ask about that quote they have to show balance from the harbor physicists, which is an awful quote. They threw that in there to show balance in the story. It wasn't just here's what these uh, these pilots saw. They threw in a counter quote to kind of, you

know, maintain that balance. And you know, the story that story came about because they saw a screener of to the of unidentified identified the two the stars and say hey, here's an advanced green to go to your own work. They decided to do that on their own. And what Ralph said to me was makes sense. There's there's plenty of room in the paper to do a review or entertainment story on it. Those are totally two, totally different things. So you know, the show in this that article was separate.

I think a lot of people failed to realize, you know, they want to make these connections where it's just some huge corporate can conspiracy. And you know, Brian Benner's appearing on television because political allows him to do you think he's how much money, if any? Do you think he's he's singing from being on that show. Not a lot, Yeah, not a lot. We got to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and

talk more about these topics. So I'm with Mike Demante of Punk Rock and UFOs, Joe Murghi of UFO Joe and uh Danny Silver of the Silver Record,

and we'll be right back here listening to Open Mind GUFO Radio. Welcome back to Open Mind's UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I have a superstar and at least for me, dream Team pan here talking about the unidentified television show and of course the organization's affiliated with it, including A Tip and to the stars, a tip being the secretive Pentagon program.

I like to use the term secretive because it wasn't necessarily classified as secret or all of it, so it would I like the term that the media seems to have picked up also as secretive. But we've got Joe Demante here of Punk Rock and UFOs, We've got Joe Murgiott who runs a website UFO

Joe, and we've got Danny Silver of the Silver Record. So Danny, we were just talking about, you know, kind of the detractors and some of the heavy hitters that they're they're going against and quite frankly looking kind of shabby against. What is your take because you've been in there as well?

You know, first off, I think we just need to keep in mind that there's so many crazy details and with all of this stuff with a Tip and us app and all of us that have been following it this whole time, at least since twenty seventeen, you know, we're still fuzzy on certain details, and so no one's going to be right one hundred percent of the time. The only person that's been there from the beginning. Really that's a

reporter, is George Knapp. So he's to me, he's the most credible person, you know, so you can pick apart anything that you know, the New York Times are even political says if it's a tiny little detail, but they get the general story right. But then they probably did also make some errors. But then you look over at the other side of it, and these guys are making massive, huge errors. They're saying it's aviation for you know, a year and a half and and doing all these other things.

So you know, there's there's errors going around for everyone. So I just think that we need to keep that in mind. Yeah, that's a great point, and a great point is I think along those lines. George Knapp has been here the longest. I mean, he has sat on a lot of this information and finally able to release a lot of information, which I know he's ecstatic about. You know, as journalists, that's what we

love to do, is share the information with the public. He has been proven accurate time and time again, and so as Lou and really from the beginning, even with Lou Alizondo, he made claims that the DoD countered and you know there's always nuances, and so I think we kind of all waited

to hear what the DoD would say or what would come to light. George has been there to verify lots of LOUTH claims, which over time have also been verified by the DoD, and they've had to change their story, which to those of us who have followed UFO stories, it's not surprising because we've seen this over the years. They had to do this with Stephenville, a very famous sighting, they had to do this with the incredible sighting in two

thousand and eight at Chicago O'Hare. So we've seen this over and over again before, so it's not too surprising. And you know who has taught me the best teacher to show me that these Public Affairs offices typically get it wrong, and has demonstrated it and just slammed, dunked and in the face of the PAO offices, has showed they've been wrong over and over again. John

Greenwald of the Black Vault. But for some reason when it comes to this story, after years I've interviewed him, you can go back and listen to my podcast with him. We've had so many over this very topic, and he's like I don't know why they're lying to me. I don't know why they're giving me wrong information. But in this case, he's the guy not only that is backing the DoD. Every time they say something. He's like, oh, they've got it right, and Lou's got it wrong and he's

been wrong every time. But he also is the guy that the DoD has been going to first. Why are they giving John information? They're not giving it to me. They're not even giving it to George or others a lot of the time. Instead, they're going to John first. In fact, I knew this. I even said this. I think on the show, when the DoD has to change their story about the Fleer videos that they did release him, I'll bet they'll release him to John first, and they'll be

a spin already pre prepared. And of course they did, and they had this ridiculous spin that was just I feel that we blew out of the water in seconds. Yeah. I think when they get things wrong and I hear Lou talk about it, it's the talking about it being a giant, brasy bureaucracy and it's just one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing. And I've had Eric Davis tell me that too. But then you know, so it's like, you know, nothing the fary is going on there.

But then you hear what you just said, and they're purposely going to somebody who's negative against all this, and they're going to Greenwald first. It makes you think that there's more to it than just bureaucracy, right. Yeah,

this kind of goes to I think there was Tom. I think Tom said this months ago, I think before the scenon all started, about how there is this kind of infighting, this war kind of within the pen gone about this This caun obviously be you know, a concerted effort to try to muddy the waters is having somebody say, you know what besides trying to get this out and it's going to get out, but let's, you know, let's throw a wrench in it. Well. Bender even tweeted, I think yesterday

that Lou has more enemies on the inside than he has allies. And we know and you know, Lou even admitted this that to be at because he doesn't like to talk bad about anybody on the inside, but that there were people who did not like him coming forward with all of this information. He says that a lot of them have changed their tune now that they've seen it's been positively received by the public, but that there were a lot that were

upset. And I can see this from the Public Affairs Department. I can see how they would be like, hey man, you know you're on our team and here you are out outing all of this stuff. We're being totally caught off guard. Now we've got to answer questions about UFOs and we're not ready for this. You could have given and as a heads up, but I think if you see it from Lou's perspective, if he would have given them a heads up, they might have ran to their bosses to try to

shut up Lou and that would have created more problems. So, you know, in order to get this information out, which is what we've all been striving for for years, it had to go down this way. The DoD is not happy about it, but they've really got a dummy up. They've just got a you know, deal and quit undermining their own credibility by countering it and then having to correct their statements later on. That's how I feel.

I remember early on LOUI said he got death threats from people inside the Pentagon, so I mean that's some people were obviously even more more than just upset if you're making death threats against them, right right, So let's get into the show. Last night's show which episode two of Unidentified. I've read, at least Joe, some of what you've written about the episode. I want to start off with Danny, if that's all right, what did you

think of the show last night? Maybe feel for you to get into details spoiler alert. By the way, I liked it the first two episodes. They've seemed to be more for people that aren't up on the on the details of the story like we are, so the general public and even just people in the UFO community that aren't up on the TTSA stuff. My favorite thing, and I wrote a blog about it, was that the A tip hotspot map. I thought that was really interesting and it was had a lot of

Easter eggs for us to kind of go back and look at. But other than that, you know, they're they're dig get into this cataline the hotspot thing. I also thought it was interesting that they put out there, you know that maybe it could be our tech, or at least they didn't deny it. Yeah, they showed both sides of the story, so I thought that was pretty fair of them. They made a strong argument, I think by the end, especially that it could be our tech, which was interesting

and fair. But yeah, Joe, what do you think? I agree, And it's funny with the time because we know Tyler Rogueway of the Drive has written a couple of articles that highly suggests that it may be our tech in two thousand and four, in the twenty fourteen twenty fifteen incidents, so I took some notes. Bender called the secret test of our tech a reasonable

hypothesis, possible that Alezando didn't know about it. The female wingman said maybe they were vectored into a live range and the object under the water was maybe a sub Alexando said that there were a tenor arrays connected to government activity that maybe played a role in the two thousand and four events, and then he said, we can't rule out that we have tech to achieve those hypersonic speeds, and then Justice said, hypersonic craft want to travel above five thousand feet.

The tic TAC went down to sea level, so that was kind of against the hour tech argument. But then Justice at the end he said that it's possible it's black budget tech. But if so, somebody would know that you're operating near that area where they were doing the exercise. But if an admiral was in charge and didn't make a report, it could be because it was an operational text test. Not everybody gets to know everything. So I was I was surprised they went there. I mean, I didn't expect that.

I still think that probably they don't believe that, and they're just saying those things to be fair. You know, you hear some of the interviews and with Chris Mellon and lou and they really don't seem to believe that angle,

but they did play it up in the show. And then when Alejandro interviewed la Pey what's his first name, that the Anthony Leapey, he said that he spoke to Justice on and off the record, which I thought was interesting, and he said basically, yeah, the technology that they saw is so much for it's beyond anything that he worked on as far as propulsion system.

So that's the other argument that it's not ours and Mike, yeah, I was just saying, whether they believe that or not, it's still pretty I think it's it's good that they include those those other perspectives in the show, because the show does come across as a very credible argument to make,

you know, regarding the subject. Like, you know, I talk about the stuff with my friends and my fiance all the time, but like last night, she watched the episode with me and she was glued to the TV just because like the way it's presented, they do a really good job of presenting this very down the middle. Obviously their opinions may be different, but they do try to try to at least present an alternative argument that I think

will keep mainstream viewers interested. You know, it's not like it's ancient Aliens, where it's you know, mostly one side of the argument that they are providing, you know, these alternative solutions, whether they believe them or not. And I think that's a good thing. You Know. What I was really impressed with with that side of their investigation is that they covered like there

have obviously been people out there doing the same thing. Tyler rogue Away, I think it's probably one of the most skilled because he just writes about defense for the drive war Zone, and he, like you said, wrote up that whole thing. He's written a couple of things. First, about how these radars came in line online in twenty four and twenty fifteen. I would argue the technology, of course that we would have would be vastly different between

two thousand and four and twenty fifteen. That's kind of one issue with that idea, I think. But he also brought up how this is a testing zone, the Catalina Island area. It's a huge oceanic kind of area where there's aerospace on underwater military testing that goes on, which is a really great point also, which is why you see those radars and antenor are raised on Catalina. But also that the well just about all this testing and everything.

But I thought it was great. Oh the missile the missile tests that they covered as well. But what's cool is that they on their own doing their own research, which had made the same discoveries that Tyler Rogaway this season Defense Writer had discovered as well. So I think it just showed that they did some really good work, which they should. I mean, with the crew that they have researching what the potential you know, more mundane answers could be.

I think that it showed that they did a really good job. They answered Roguaway's questions and others which I doubt Roguaway was expecting, and some of these others who thought, man, I really got a scoop here. I really picked up on something that I'm sure they didn't. Well, they did pick up on that, and we saw that. Not to mention, the TV show was probably recorded last year before a lot of these articles came out exactly. It reminds me, you guys probably remember this because we probably all

retweeted it when Lou tweeted, you know, a few images. I think maybe to the Stars did I don't remember, Lou doesn't have a tweter. What am I talking about? But it was probably to the Stars where you know where it showed Tom and him doing adventures and stuff. This was probably like a year ago, and now we know this was part of the show, so you're right, they shot this stuff a long time ago. A

lot of stuff that the MI shooting was before the show even exists. Some of the footage in the first episode was from when Tom took a camera with him to the very first one of the very first times he went to the White House, which was initially supposed to be the Secret Machines documentary film. That's a really good point. So Tyler Rogueaway's article, and this is a

tough one. I think that there's the whole Bigelow side. He really needs to look into the history of Bigelow and how his investigations and how to the Stars. It's very much a continuation of like Bigelow's National Institute of Discovery Sciences and BASS, which was, you know, a partner with a TIP. We can even see that in the name BASS is the Bigelow Aerospace Advanced what Weapons or no system space, Yes, space studies, but it's still got

that terminology in there that's similar to a TIP and these other organizations. But you know, it's a lot of the same players. Halan Davis, for example, Comb Kellahar was one of the scientists for who still works for Bigelow Aerospace, was with to the Stars, and then you have some new people

that are in there. But Tyler Rogaway kind of was taking this this angle and I did address this with Lou that you know, Tom got a lot of cooperation with the military and that you know, this all could be like a big propaganda thing for the military to make them look good, which is kind of the angle Tom took to them that in all this UFO stuff, you guys are looking like the villain. That shouldn't be the case. I

want to help change that. However, what Lou said is it's ridiculous to say that we're kind of being pulled by the nose, but that we are cooperating, because it would be silly of us not to cooperate, uh, to work with them, And obviously the Navy has been very cooperative with coming up with UFO protocols and then also allowing these pilots to be on the show. What do you what do you guys think of that? I'm kind of

still digesting it. I think it's funny that a lot of fans of To the Stars want to believe that To the Stars is basically another arm of the government. They want that, and yeah, the detractor the detractors look at that and they say that's a huge, horrible, bad thing. So it's kind of funny that how everyone looks to that that particular theory differently. Yeah, and I'm not mister UFO history, but I was reading up on I found an article in the New York Times. It was I think it was

it was in the eighties. But they were talking about Nightcap and Nightcap had a ton of former government people working with them. And I don't know, Alejandra if you know history, but were they facing the same criticism as far as people who used to work for the government working for them, Because to me, it's like, yeah, there are people in our government and intelligence agencies that are interested interested in this subject. So it's like that's that's I

would expect that. So now that they're interested and they're actually helping push this topic along and and actually we're open to DeLong helping them get this information out. I my first response is not that it's some nefarious behind the scenes program where they're trying to trying to push disinfo disinformation on us. I'm happy they're involved, Like like Danny said, yeah, TTS folk TTS, people who support tt SA are happy that they're helping push this story out, whether or

not there's disinfo. I have not seen anything that set my alarm bells off that said, you know, that's that's really pushing it. I don't believe that it's been so basic so far. It's been basically unidentified objects in our airspace. We don't know what they are. I think you're right in that

Nightcap, there's a total difference between then and now. Back then, everybody was patriotic and it was good to see the government and military as being good and helpful and doing positive things, not like it is now, where it's kind of the trend to see the government as evil and bad and anything that they're touching has got to be some sort of nefarious type of thing. So that's the difference now. Nightcap, even in that environment, was criticized for

that. But even you know, one of their consultants, who was an Admiral killing Code hilling Cotter, he even you know, kind of got conspiracuatorial with the Air Force and was saying, which was accurate, that the Air Force was spinning this when they actually take it more seriously. But then as time went on, you know, hilling Cootter left the group, and then people started saying he was part of the combarracing, He's part of MJ twelve. So they dealt with that. They did have that, but not to

the degree that you would now. So it's really interesting and strange, Yead to see how people are handling this, I think, and I think Bender has talked along these lines at least to me, what Lou expressed seems accurate.

They and you can see this through the history of Big Low Aerospace and the different groups they have been pushing to research this topic and to make it more credible throughout the years, trying to work with inside organizations, and that now they've just got more of that going on than ever before, mostly because of you know, connections that Melon and Justice and Lou have that they definitely want to work with their partners on the inside. That doesn't mean that I

think they're driving the narrative. I think to the Stars is driving the narrative because you guys follow this very closely, and that's what it appears to be. That's what we see is to the stars looking at something, not being told to look somewhere. But you know, they're the ones prodding. I don't think the government wants us to look at crash retrieval projects or any of this sort of thing, and the DoD Public Affairs Office is obviously not happy

about all of this. What do you think, Joe, all right, Yeah, yeah, I don't know if they're thrilled about I would think they're not thrilled about crash retrieval programs, assuming that assuming they even know about that stuff. It's not so black budget they don't even know. But as far as you know, I said, I don't think there's anything controver as far

as conspiratorial or something related to this information. But when DeLong talks about some of the stuff he was told, you know, it's so fear based some of it early on, when he would talk about that stuff. Maybe they're putting out that story because Kit Green has spoken about how the way they get information out is they tell this really outland this scary story, and it gets people all frightened. But then when the truth comes out, it's something a

lot less proseeic. It's not prosic, but it's a lot less scarier, and it's people like, oh, that's the truth. Okay, the other story was really scary. I can handle this. So it's kind of like the technique they use. And I don't know if that's what went on with DeLong, but I don't know what you guys think, But some of the

stuff he talked about was almost all fear based. Yeah, And I wasn't a fan of that, the whole threat narrative, but I could see why they'd use that threat narrative to get other people in the government to get their attention, because it goes beyond just you know UFOs. Then then it becomes it there's something you know, like they've said, for there's something you're a Scott. We don't know what it is and we can't control it. So

I guess by that definition, yes it is a threat. But as long as you're not pushing the whole evil alien agenda, I'm fine with it. No, I agree, I agree. I have no problem with the threat because I know they have to use that to get funding and get the interest of certain people in kind. But as long as as long as some of that scary stuff isn't brought up again, because DeLong doesn't talk about it anymore and it hasn't been brought up by anybody else into the stars. So I'm

good as long as they don't bring that up again. Course, of course, maybe that's the truth. I don't know. I don't know really what. We don't know what's going on. We don't know what's going on behind with the phenomena. I mean, who knows. Maybe there is a really negative aspect to this. We all, I mean, we've all talked about it, we've all considered it. I kind of you know, I just sit here and I listened to those guys that I feel like they really know

what they're talking about. Eric Davis also, you know, mentioned that I think recently to you, Alejandro, that you know, nothing good has came out of this. Then there is you know, a whole series of people that say it's it's totally positive. But I just kind of sit out on that one. And then I just listened to To the Stars and all these other people, and if Leu and Tom are saying it, then I just figure they know what they're talking about, you know, and and there's something

to the nature of what they're sharing. So, for ample, the majority of To the Stars is sharing what they're finding in their research and investigation. So people like Lou Chris Mell and Steve Justice are more careful, how put Off who barely ever talks publicly, They're more careful about what they're saying. However, others like Davis Davis is getting uh he's willing to share rumors,

which is fair. You know, he's an educated person. He's capable of sharing what is more credible and it and I think we should pay attention to what Davis has said, and then you've got Tom, and Tom is not only sharing rumors, he's sharing his personal opinions and his own assumptions or skeptics or you know, kind of his what he thinks is going on by putting

his connecting his own dots, so it's less based on research. But that also I think makes Tom more sceptible to putting forth messages are that he's given to put forth, so he would be more susceptible to possibly putting out information that you know, insiders may want out. So that's kind of one thing

that he's got to be careful with too. But that means, of all the people, you got to take his information with a little more grain of salt because it's also his interpretation of what things are going on and what role they want him to play. I think one indication where he may have gotten it wrong was in those Wiki leaks when John Podesta that had arranged that meeting

and it was mcaslyn I believe who. You saw this email from Tom right after their meeting that said, hey, mccaslyn was saying he was skeptical in that meeting, but he's not as skeptical, as he alluded to. So that just shows that maybe Tom misinterpreted some of what mcchaslyn had told him earlier, or maybe even went too far and sharing more than mcaslyn wanted to share. But the point being that there's levels of credibility or with all of the

sourcing of this information, and people change their mind over time. Yeah, that's a really good point too. And we don't know some of these guys, you know, generals and otherwise they have opinions too that aren't necessarily based in what they know, but what they believe to be true. So that's the other side. But I think you all have great points. And one great point that you all make is when people talk about this narrative, they're

pushing a negative narrative that fits their agenda. Is that Davis has been around for a long time. So if he's sharing that he believes that there's this isn't good, that he believes there's aliens in his findings are that they're not nice, then then you know this is based off of years and years of

gathering information. So but like you said, who knows what the truth is and you know what we have coming up and let's talk about this next is these uh, you know, negative experiences that happened in Brazil that I think they're going to cover in the show. No, I didn't know. I didn't know that either. I'm looking forward to that then big time because I think Kolaris is one of the most amazing Can you summarize it kind of and I don't know if I can. I'll try though, basically over what was

it like a month or something like that. I'll probably get some facts wrong here, and basically UFOs is kept coming, uh and visiting various areas of Brazil. It wasn't just Clari's Island. Vallet was the main investigator on this. After the fact, it happened so much that the Brazilian military was called in. Also the a lot of journalists were called in. What I find

really interesting is how Pudoff and other people keep bringing it up. Putoff says that, you know, I think there was like fourteen or sixteen hours of footage, there's data, there's everything. Various people have also investigated it. I've been I've been doing a deep dive on this. I'm actually and I'm planning to come out with a blog about it. But there's also you know, facts basically that say that Bass and Bigelow later on went and investigated it

and kind of took it on a different angle. Also, one thing that seems to legit happen was people died, maybe like ten or twelve. People were getting shot with beams of light. Just the craziest things that you'll ever hear. I have no idea why there hasn't been some big movie about it. It seems like it could be something like a really huge blockbuster. But I don't know if this is a something they're trying to put out there more. But yeah, I didn't know Unidentified was going to cover that, So

I'm pretty excited about that. I don't know it for one hundred percent, but I'm pretty sure. But yeah, go ahead. Did you others want to add to that? Nope, He's got it. You know. It's like, it's just weird that that kind of stuff's happened in Brazil and we don't have anything really close to that here. I mean, we have we have people, you know, cast Landrun, but that was you know, that seemed like a side effect, like you know, from the from the

technology did seemed like it was an overt attack like in Brazil. But so I mean, if they're going to cover that negative case, that kind of stuff, they should try to. I don't know if they're going to cover

anything positive because there are people that claim. First of all, you got the abductees and the free report, which is almost all positive experiences, and then you have then you have people saying that they were healed with their UFO encounters, people healed of cancer that pets, you know, on the brink of death coming back. So it's like there's positive stuff too. I don't know if it is unidentified just going to focus on the negative aspect of this.

I've been told that there was other similar incidents to Kolari's around the world and we just don't know about them. So I find that pretty interesting. Well, we know they're going to cover Rendal Sham, and I did ask Lou about that, and I even, you know, added that, hey, you know in the New York Times it said you were testing looking at

people who had physical effects from encounters. Is that the aspect you're you're going to cover in Rendal Sham And he kind of sidestepped it and said, you're gonna have to wait to see in the episode, but he didn't deny it to me. I think they are going to go there with Rendel Sham, and of course the guys there feel they had negative effects from their encounters with

uh, these objects. I don't know if they'll even go into you know, Burrows fighting for VA medical benefits related to this encounter and heart issues he's had that he leaves stem from this issue, something that was speculated in a UK document called the Condine Report that he felt was helped him get his VA funding. But there were weird things that happened to his medical and his service records that he had to get help from the Office of John McCain to correct,

and finally he did get his VA benefits. I've got interviews with him and his lawyer on this when that happened, but that may be the angle they cover. We'll have to see. But what's interesting is, you know, Danny, you've written about this. I think we've all kind of kept an eye on this. Is this whole project that's gone on where at least Gary Nolan is out of Stamford. It's kind of looking at people who have paranormal experiences to determine why is there something in their DNA or their brain or

what's going on here. And Eric Davis even admitted he was one of their guinea pigs and he gave him samples. It's amazing work. Kick Green is involved. I don't pretend to understand it all. It's kind of hard for me to talk about it, but you know, they that was put out there for a reason, and I think it's really important and now that it's out there in the public realm, people can build on it. I think Elejandre, you sold yourself a little short, because lou actually did kind of

give you a good answer. He said, you'll see quote a comprehensive picture of the effects on our men and women women in uniform that this that this phenomenon has that may include even medical effects. So I'm really looking forward to

seeing who they spoke to about that, if it's not just Burrows. To the clearest thing, how put Off told George Knapp last year on Coast to Coast that to the Stars was going to be trying to get some of this video and data and put it out And I actually asked him about it and he told me everything that they're doing with that right now is going to be in the show. That's probably where I got it. I remember seeing them.

But however, though I wasn't I wasn't sure if he meant that everything with Cholaris would be in the show or just everything all the information they're trying to put out was going to be in the show and not including Clariss. So I have no idea. But you've got a great point. So is it is that the aspect they're going to cover rndal Schman, maybe they may be even covered Day because Day, of course, it's that he feels he's had some emotional effects from the whole encounter. Uh, you know, Fraverer.

Unfortunately an organ made fun of that a bit. It seems that's why I wanted lou to go on the record saying that he backs Day and yeah, we wanted to get into that. So we'll get into that now, I guess. But that and you know, that's genuine. I think that it looks bad for Fravor to make fun of, especially any military guys affecting PTSD. I mean, my degree was in industrial and psychology, uh and and it covers those sort of things. But there could be a number of

reasons. You don't even have to have the experience personally to experience PTSD from it, so, but an experience where your your job is to look and understand what all the aircraft are in your arena, and you know your hyper sensitive to that, as Day seems to be. I think that was reflected in the show last night. Kevin Day was part of it. You know, that would be shocking if you see this crazy stuff going on on your

radar screens and then you you know, send some jets in. Which is interesting too that Fravor in the show did admit that the Princeton did you know, zero them in or at least send them to go look at the tic TAC and and I could see how someone would be affected that. You know, you nobody knows what this is, and you've got this giant secret that there's these crazy things flying around and you know you can't talk to anybody or

nobody takes seriously. That would be world changing. Well that makes me wonder if Fraverer is aware of some of the stuff, like Kevin Day has said,

outside of the emotional aspect of it. When I did my interview with him, he kind of alluded to heightened senses of abilities, which was kind of weird considering he wasn't you know, abducted or or you know what I mean, it is a quote unquote experiencer, so it'd be it's kind of weird that Kevin has these claims of you know, without having you know, these experiences that others have to kind of have some of the same reaction. And I'm not discrediting you know, what he said at all, because I

you know, I really appreciate him coming forward. So if Frever knows fravor knows anything about that, or is you know, you know, just kind of making comments on you know, like you said, like the PTSD thing, which would be kind of a really bad look. I think it was a really bad look. It was the worst when I was when I was listening to that, I was so mad that he was doing that because I met I met all the guys that Mega con and Kevin's a great guy.

You know. I don't know what happened to him. I don't know what he's going through, but to just even bring up PTSD at all, it was just like you said, it's such a bad look. Why even go there? Just don't even talk about it. And the other thing is like you know we have we have Pjaus who said his data bricks were confiscated. I totally, one hundred percent believe him. He said there's other witnesses. He mentioned Roger who actually had to sign NDA's and then Jason Turner to me

is a really important witness. He claims there was a seven to ten minute video of the tic TAC and he says there are other people in the room that saw it, and he's not going to name them because he wants to leave it up to them obviously, if they don't want to come forward, if that's true, I mean, that's that's a huge thing. I mean, and I know Fraber said, nope, this is it. This is the only video. So hopefully in the future we see more witnesses. But

but you know, they need to feel comfortable coming forward. What won't help that is somebody like Fraver is saying making you know, poking fun at PTSD and basically he's basically calling these guys liars. And that's if I'm a witness, I'm like, you know what, and I see that I'm not coming forward. I don't I don't need that in my life. I don't need to be called a liar, So I'm just gonna shut up. That's a

great point. And one of the things I'm looking back actually right now in my interview at Day and one of the things that he's it was all of a sudden privy to is the idea of human post effects. And his quote he said to me, was concerning human post effects and on what might happen when seven billion people are suddenly smarter, more present, or able to heal

and can manifest things. So it's pretty interesting with someone with no prior knowledge to this, you know, has a sighting and is able to kind of read up on it to kind of, you know, learn about just the you know, besides that the nuts and bolts of the UFO siding. So I commend Kevin for that about, you know, kind of reading up on Jackson Lay and Eric Davis and all this, you know, because he knows the stuff. Yeah, yeah, And I mean what happens over time is

memory does change. Our memory is certainly very fallible, especially you know, even after something happened, and you know, the longer time goes exponentially, we begin to forget and even get false memories. Our memory is malleable where it can be influenced by things that we hear late later on. And that's why I'm really careful with witnesses, because you know, it's just hard, especially something that happened fifteen years ago, that you're going to remember all the

details accurately, and you could innocently be remembering things wrong. There's been so many studies around this, so we don't know what influences have happened that maybe, or things that are being you know, connected to that experience that actually aren't connected to that experience. So we don't know. But I think that for me that Lou put it really well when he answered my question. He said, Frav knows what he knows. They knows what he knows. You

know, they were in two different places, so even you know. When I first asked Lou about this, he said, I don't ask them what they know about things they don't directly experience. I don't care. All I want to know is what did you deal with? What did you see? What is your first hand experience? Which I thought was a great response because that makes sense. I mean, that's where they would be the authority on their first hand experiences, not what someone else is doing. And you hear

Lou often saying I don't know. I wasn't there, ask him, ask them, you know, I don't know. Why are you asking me what someone else did? So that makes a lot of sense. And in this case, you know, Day has his first hand experience and Fraver has his, but the other witnesses, Yeah, this whole what we saw on the show last night, this tic tac or this object that went under the water and then traveled at these incredible speeds. That was kind of a holy Coca

moment. I feel probably for a lot of people in this show, and it's funny. Uh. Jeremy Corbell interviewed a witness who was who says he was there Trevor, and he basically said it went under the water. So it's not it's not just one person. It's not just Gary Vore. He's saying that I know he heard it. He said he heard it from a sonar tech and that's saying witness said he saw a different type of video where

it was actually UFO shaped like flying saucers. So I don't know. Maybe hopefully we'll here, we'll hear from Trevor one day, maybe he'll be in the show because Jeremy Corbell alluded to. He didn't say that, he said, just pay attention. He brought it up again. Just remember what this person said. I don't know if it was in reference to what Gary vore he's found out about as far as underwater, the sonarch contact, or if Trevor is going to be on the show. Yeah, they might be.

I don't think he is. I don't think Trevor is on the show, but I could be remembering wrong. I did want to say that, you know, Lou has kind of stuck to the facts as far as Kevin Day's experience. You guys may know better than me for off the record comments, but he hasn't spoken about that. I've heard about anything that happened after the

the Kniamts encounters to the guys personally. I also thought it was really interesting that they included Gary Voorhi's story about how the the date it was taken. You know, that's been that's been denied by some other people, but they put it in. They put it in the show. One other thing I can clear up a little bit is, uh, you know, George NAP's gotten a little bit of flack because he was the one interviewing Fraveror, and he made that comment that you know the stories of BS. I can tell

you that that isn't George Knap's opinion. He was reporting and it sounds kind of sounds like it when you listen to it, but uh, he was reporting what Fravor was saying. So it was more of a quote of Fravor and George Knapp was, you know, basically just being a journalist and trying to get him to comment on what he was saying. There's some insight there too, because the way Joe asked the question, and I know this got

some people upset. Joe, you got upset. I think I told you because I was there, and you know, immediately I go up there and George is all excited and we're like little schoolgirls. He's like, did you hear that? Did you hear that? And we were talking about all the stuff that he talked about and the questions and even more that Fraver had told them offline. But so we were all excited about it and you know, geeking out on all of this. But he did something it's kind of like

I can't remember the name, it's it's kind of like mirroring. So in other words, where you portray the sentiment of the person you're interviewing so that you are trying to get them there again. So essentially, frav at some point expressed to George in the way that George was expressing to him what he had felt about the other witnesses, and George was trying to get him back there to express, you know, honestly in front of this crowd, what

he had expressed to George earlier. So George is asking the question in the manner those answers were given him to try to elicit that same, you know, kind of response from Fravr, which it did. I don't know, you know, in a way. I'm not sure it was completely fair, but to be honest, because it would have been fair to challenge Fraverr on the spot there. I think that would have been fair for the other witnesses

if someone would have done that. But and that didn't happen. They kind of moved on to other topics because there was so much more to talk about. But the one the primary witness that, of course Jeremy and George have talked to is Fravor. So a lot of what they are collecting or seeing is kind of influenced by Fraverr's input, you know what I mean? All right? I know, and you know, I don't think either one of

them spoke with any of the four witnesses at MEGACNS. So yeah, their only witness that they've spoken to I believe is Fravor and Jeremy spoken to some other people. But I understand that's what George's intention was. But that's to me, that's not how it came across. So I said, you know what, maybe it's just me. So I took it and I played it for a friend and she's like, no, that's not that's not how it

sounds. It sounds like he's calling it bullshit and b yes, sorry, but you know, you know, I tru George's got the track word, so I believe that wasn't his intention. But yeah, it would have been nice. I would love to have those guys, I think would love to meet with Fraber and talk about it, and I'd love to be able to see if they can, you know, hash it out and talk about stuff because he wasn't obviously wasn't on the Prince and he couldn't he couldn't be everywhere

at the same time. I know he thinks that a lot of stuff would have come to him, But as pj U said, there's some stuff that he knew that there's no there's no way Fraber would know about it unless he was read into something. It was so classified, like the data bricks, they were very classified, and unless Fraber had a need to know, he wouldn't know about that. Mm hmm. And just for the record, you

know, George has he interviewed Kevin Day on Costa Coast. He promoted Dave Baby the name it's encounters on Coast to Coast, So I just wanted to mention that too. Yeah, yeah, and you know, George is human and he's gathering information just like we are, and it's helpful that people are

grabbing information from other angles. But yeah, because I had talked him about this, and I know afterwards others had talked to him about this too, so he got more education, I think afterwards on all of this as well. So who knows what he thinks now he may think. I'm sure he does think something totally different because we're all learning as we go here, so we've gone quite a bit over But I want to give you all a chance

to talk about any other items you want to talk about. So why don't we go around and maybe let's start with Joe, is there something else you want to bring up that to the group. Let's see. I would love I really was amazed that when Christopher Mellon was on Fox Radio he brought some of the guy brought up the guy brought up Area fifty one. The interviewer

and Mellan talked about how there's eight members of Congress stipulated by law. It's Section one nineteen of Title ten, and no, Danny, I have not looked it up yet. I would love to. I actually want to read that. But he said, if they ask a question about even the most secret of SAP programs, they're entitled to a straight answer from the Department of Defense. But then he says, he says, yeah, they're entitled to a straight answer in theory, and I just thought it was like he's bringing

up in theory. He put that in there, and it's like, yeah, they should be able to get information, but I don't think that's the way it works on some of these programs. And that's when I thought about some of the SAP crash retrieval bodies programs. Yeah, you know that Greer has talked about, Mitchell's talked about and that the Eric Davis Lee It's mentioned

with Admiral Wilson that even Admiral Wilson couldn't get this information. So it kind of like, to me, I thought, I thought that, and I know I'm just I'm extrapulating here, I'm speculating, and that's what Melan was getting at. But he seemed to have it ready that he was talking about

Section one nineteen and the most secretive sensitive SEPs. I don't know what you guys think, but to me, that was that was really interesting, one of the most interesting aspects of this past week, which was an amazing week for us. It was crazy. Yeah, I'm sorry, Danny Yay. I was just saying this. It's I agree, it's crazy. It was really crazy. It was a historic comment. Really yeah. Well I'll add to that, and that's what I this will be my talking point. What

I want to end with. I think it's interesting too to see going forward, which current senators are gonna you know, you know, we're gonna see who are the ones who are read in or even with the upcoming elections, just to see who's interested in this topic besides Andrew Yang obviously, but just to see some of the incoming incoming freshman members of the House, just to see how much stay know and what their interest is, because I think,

you know, even though this is the start, you know, conversations and potentially could lead congressional hearings and people being read in. I think this is the start of it. But at the same time, I think it's not going to be a priority going into twenty twenty. But I think it's a start, which is still good. You know. I was going to say,

and and Danny's kind of written some stuff down this route. I know is that two things that Chris Mellan I think he knew it so well because that was part of his job when he was doing this stuff in the White House. So I think it probably would have even been his job. Hey,

we want to know this, go find it out. So what Chris Mellon knows is people may or may not share it with them, And if they have some inkling of a notion that something's going on that's not being shared with him, that means they're going to have to go to battle and say no, we want this information and then fight the fight to get it and maybe not get it. Who knows, you know, how these battles might go on in the background, but that yeah, like he says they should

share it, but who knows if they will. We might have to go to bat to try to get it, or we might just say, all right, I guess we're screwed. We're not going to get the answers. But another interesting thing about that is that Harry Reid I am positive he was, as far as intelligence, part of that gang of eight that I'm sure I believe that Melon's referring to. So Harry Reid would have been one of

those people. So Chris Mellon might be telling us something else. Why is Harry Reid starting ASAP to look into some of this stuff, trying to get ASAP where he used a term by them a tip SAP access to be able to find that information out when Harry Reid had the ability to find that out himself. So maybe he felt he wasn't getting all the answers that he was

supposed to get. And some people have suggested this that a tip might have been partially kind of especially this SAP well, he even mentioned there's discussion about this the whole reason they wanted the SAP status was so they could get access to information and other special access programs. So it seems like there was a lot of information that a TIP was a tool to get more information on what

was out there, but of course they were denied SAP access. And the big question for me is, Harry Reid, did you go ask these questions and were you denied information? What did you try to find on your own given the power of your office, which is huge? I mean he was he was a very important person. That's a great point. And I did. I mentioned to him some of the other programs and if they were located

in a special access program and he said they'd have to be. And that interview George Snapp did with him, it's like he mentioned other programs and he gave that little sly smile, which I tweeted out. I was like, what is he trying to tell us? So, yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, So what does Harry Reid know? What does he really know? But there's other players in this said just are not going to share

what they know. I mean, Harry Reid is tight lipped, Bob big Low, I mean, he rarely gives any interviews and claims to know there's aliens here, but won't share why. He believes that how put Off is very good at holding stuff close to the vest. Fortunately, we have people like Eric Davis, who you once you get him going, it's hard to get him to stop. But yeah, it's it's it's a lot of fun.

This is just so interesting. We're getting so much information. And it's funny because, like I talked about with George Knapp, he's someone who really geeks out on He gets so excited like like we do about all this stuff. It's like, well, just imagine some of these guys trying to get this information for literally decades and now there's this huge avalanche of flow of information. How amazing that would be. And speaking of information coming out, I

wrote a blog about Long again mellon comments yesterday that I published. You know, DeLong is saying that towards the end of the series, we're gonna see current program agents. They're not going to show their face. I took that as meaning the United States. I mean, he didn't clarify that, but that's what we've been wanting this whole time, is to know about the current program going on. You know, Lou has told us that there is a

current program going on. It may not be named ATIV, but it's alive and well, I think, is how he put it, and so that's gonna be really huge. Another thing that I'm just totally flabbergasted by is that Tom and Melan have both talked about NATO allies coming forward and talking about experiences.

I have some of the quotes right here. Tom said you will see the intelligence agents of other NATO allies towards the end of the show, and then Mellan said, in fact, as our investigation unfolds over the first six episodes season, we're going to be presenting information from an ally that's been having very similar experiences. So you know what if we get New York Times level,

you know story about another country. I'm just speculating here, but something big may come about with us, and I think everyone really needs to pay attention to that. I think it's rans go ahead. I was gonna say,

I think that speculation. I think it's it's warranted because they had cameras with them when they were in Rome as well, so when they did the conference in Rome, so I think, yeah, it's definitely a European nation for sure, and I think it's going to be collaborated with another article, not where they did it on purpose, but I think everything is timed if

one of the last episodes is when this is revealed, you know. I think they're definitely been working side by side with some of these governments in terms of when the stuff gets out there to kind of to kind of parallel with when the episode airs. I hope there's video. Yeah, I think I'd be more excited if it's Italy, but I kind of they've mentioned France before.

I think it might be France. The reason I'd be excited if it's Italy because we haven't heard as much from them historically, whereas we've heard a lot from France because they have their own official UFO organization that's been going since the seventies. That was Jacques Vallet had a role in getting that rolling actually, And so if we do get to see current members of whatever the program is called, I mean, that's probably one of the more exciting things I

can think of. I cannot wait for that. And the naysayers, what are they going to say? Will well know these people are just these people along, They're not part of the program. What the program exists now, and these guys are saying, we are investigating UFOs encounters with the military, and it's happening right now. It's going to shut up a lot of those

naysayers. It may also change how the public views this because when they read the New York Times article, a tip was in the past, even though we know it was still going on, but that you know, it was basically said in a lot of these media outlets that it was over with, And I think that kind of put people's minds at ease in a way. But what if the public now knows there's a current program investigating things right now as we speak, And I think that may change how people view the subject.

If they don't do it, Yep, if they don't do it, I can just picture Danny taking screenshots of every person in the last few episodes and trying to figure out who all these people are. I'm assuming they're going to be in silhouette. I would think they're not going to show their faces. I think that's what DeLong said, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, he said they're not going to show their faces, but hey, we're going to get their their side profile. Oh yeah, I'll be happy with

voices. Yeah. So finally, predictions. Anybody got a prediction? I got one. My prediction is we will hear clarification, more clarification from the DoD backtracking even more from their statements. I'm absolutely certain that awesome. I mean, I personally have shared information with Sherwood and I know he's read it because I know he only got a couple of emails that day on this, and I haven't begun my campaign to really bug him to get more information.

But I know I'm not the only one who shared information. And of course, like I said, I'm the run of the litter. I don't have an organ even Klas would have more pull that George and app works with. But people like Bender with Politico, who says essentially that he's looking for some clarification, Politico has a lot of cloud. They're going to get a response

of some sort. So I'm sure that we'll get even more clarification. There any of any other predictions also, But I'm just going to buy these comments. So yeah, I'm just waiting for the program in the current program and the NATO thing. Yeah, I don't have a prediction, but I do, can I bring up one other thing, because I really want to get

you guys, your take on this, any idea, you know. The New York Times has now written several articles on this, not unmentioned of Awsapp, and I know they would like to get people who are actually in the program so they can get you know, so they can get an interviewed with one of those people. And they may be really difficult to get it, but I would think they would at least mention and that's how the program started.

Because nobody really, unlike besides us, because we follow it so closely, people who are just you know, just getting into this subject, they have no idea that it started with, you know, Skinwalker Ranch and the DEA scientists, according to George Knapp, you know, having the experience at the ranch and that started everything. And nobody really knows about that unless, like I said, you're obsessed with the subject like we are. Any ideas

why they haven't gone there? What I would argue that they haven't really gone there yet because it hasn't the current story that the most recently it hasn't really went to that specific story. I think they're doing an all encompassing story about the beginning of the program, then yes, I think that would be included. But I think just from what the previous story was talking about, I was talking about specific incidents, so they didn't go too far into the background

of it. I think it's because it's so sticky and weird. What the heck was Skinwalker. It's a really difficult situation to deal with, and like a lot of the skeptics complained, they didn't find anything. All they left with was some anecdotal stories and nothing hard. I mean, these are credible people. I think they're great stories and people you can believe, But so

what do you cover, especially that's credible. There is tough and in New York Times they were actually the first before George Knapp came out to say it was a DEA agent who helped inspire all of this. But they said the DAA agent wanted to meet Bigelow on a ranch in Utah that is like a laboratory used as a laboratory for Bigelow and his paranormal investigations. That's how they framed it. Now, no doubt Leslie Kane and I'm sure Ralph Blumenthal knew

what that ranch really was, but they didn't go there. In that first story. When I asked Leslie came about it, she said, well, lou only told me about a tip, so all we covered was a tip, which makes sense, And Louis even said I didn't want to share anything about He keeps saying that as APP I didn't work on ASP. I worked

on a tip, So I think that's a lot of it. Of course, there's a lot of access to ASAP that they can have because they just have to talk to the big low people Davis how put Off, who all were part of that investigation and part of ASAP, so they're as apps. So there's people they can talk to to do a story. But it's tough. What would be the story. I mean, essentially it would be a recap of skin Walker, which is just weird and doesn't have kind of the

gravitas of any real hard findings. Yeah, I would accept the going to go into skin Walker. Just the facts that a DIA scientists actually had an experience and that started everything. Just that, I mean, just that's how everything began, and it's nowhere to be reported. It's not really reported anywhere, although you said they did mention the DEA scientists, which I forgot about out. Yeah, I would love to see a deep dive into ASAP. The thing is, we don't. We still don't know a lot about it.

A lot of it is guarded and classified or whatever you would call it. And even with Skinwalker, George Knap said, we know about one percent of what happened there or what's going on there, especially now, so there's just a whole lot that's behind the scenes. Everyone thinks that os APP and a Tip was mainly the dirts, and you know, George Naples also commented

that that was barely part of it. You know that they had fifty employees investigating, and there's all this other stuff that we don't know about os APP. I just hope it comes out, at least for us so we can find out more. I want to know what the DA guys experience was. I'm so extremely interested in what that might have been. I could tell you what Jeremy Corbel said. I was actually gonna I really want to write a blog about this, but so so maybe I should save it for the blog.

But all right, I'll let you know what Jeremy said. I know what George said. George said he was in the he was in the corner, and he looked over somebody's shoulder and he saw something up over somebody's shoulder, and I never got details. And then one of the interviews, I don't remember which one it was, Jeremy Corpel said that he saw a It was Now I got to think, you guys talk about something. I will try to remember exactly what he said. Oh man, this is exciting.

I want to know. It was something scary. It was like an orb or I don't remember what it was, a shadow person. Well, and what's interesting is nothing had happened for years. I mean, of course you guys have known this. We've heard George talk about that, but that the phenomenon was dormant for years, and then this guy shows up and something happens. And then here we are with a television program about a whole government project

that was based off of because this event happened. So you know, I'm thinking, as I'm talking right now, a lot of the guys, like George or John Alexander calls this a sentient pre cognitive phenomenon, and this phenomenon is the reason ASAP and a tip and the television show Unidentified and Lou got all of what we're talking about on this show is all started from this friggin event that hopefully Mike can remember what it was. Yeah, point, you're

right, I can't remember right now. I promise I'm not holding back. Well, you know what, let's save it for the blog. As much as I'd like you for you to share it, go ahead and write the blog and we'll just plug. So punk rock and UFOs dot com is Mike's blog where you'll be able to get that Danny just talked about Joe's Joe's Oh Joe, this is Joe. I'm sorry. That'll be on UFO joe dot net if I can remember, I have it written down somewhere, and I

will write about, oh I got your voices mixed up. You guys have it similar so Joe. So check out UFO joe dot net and just save it for your blog. This will plug your blog, so people have to watch UFO Joe. And it's not some crazy like an alien like somebody told me all it was an alien. I'm like, no, it's more it's more scientific. It's more like geometric shape type thing. And I'll figure it out. But we're all on Twitter. People don't like Some people don't like

Twitter you've got to get on Twitter. I mean, especially every reporter knows that's where all the news is happening. Of course, when you're watching the news, you're all talking about somebody tweeted this, of course the president, but somebody tweeted this, somebody tweeted that. But you know, all of these guys are on Twitter and they're sharing all of their stories. They're all you know, you guys, I'll tell you all right now, you're doing

the best work in this field. You guys are digging and finding the most important information and getting those stories out there. I'm just so thrilled that you all are paying attention to this and writing your blogs because you're you're really doing some awesome work out there. And I highly recommend everybody check out these guys blogs. Of course, I'll have links to all of them in the show notes. But thank you all so much. Thank you Mike, thank you,

Joe, thank you, Danny, thank you all. Thank you. You're a great model role model for us, and thank you for what you do. You've been doing it a lot of years. Well, it's a thriller. I think we all feel it. It's a lot of fun. So it's a privilege, and it's even more of a privilege to have people like you in here also, especially when we're getting attacked by knuckleheads who should know better and do know better. So what can you do? But thank you guys so much. This was a lot of fun. Thank you.

Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you for having us, and thank you for letting me be in the room with a bunch of heavyweights. So appreciate it. Actually I've lost a lot of weight. I've been on the Kedo diet. Thank you so much to Mike Demante of Punk Rock and UFOs, Danny Silver of the Silver Record, and Joe Murghia of UFO Joe for joining us today. We're going to have links at the bottom in the show notes to all of their pages, and I would suggest you definitely follow these

guys and their social media, especially Twitter. We talked about this. Twitter is where it's happening, man, Brian benders on here, that's where news people are. There's just a lot going on. You get boom boom, up to the minute information on what's going down. So I highly advise you follow us all on Twitter. In fact, you can see some of these guys, you know, getting in there and having these little verbal battles with well, I guess these would be textual battles with some of the other detractors

in there, But lots of exciting stuff going on with these guys. I highly recommend that you follow them because there's lots of interesting stuff that goes on that falls through the cracks that I don't catch what these guys do, so check them out. Otherwise, I do want to also tell you be sure to check out our interviews if you haven't, my interview and Martin Willis with

Podcast UFO his interview with lou Elizondo. I mean, there hasn't been a lot of information to come out that at least, you know, answer some of the questions that we've been dying to ask, so we were able to get some great information out on those. Otherwise, I want to give you some UFO Congress updates. We're going to have Kevin Day at the event, so we just announced that Kevin Day was a radar operator. You can see

him in the latest episode of Unidentified Very Cool Guy. Of course, I interviewed him a few weeks ago, but you'll be able to meet him ask your own questions of him at the conference. That's going to be great. Another person we added is James Fox. Of course, I've had him on the show quite a bit, so those of you who have been listening for

a while know him well. He created what are some of the best documentaries, most credible documentaries out there on the topic, Out of the Blue, and I know what I saw, and he's got a new one coming out. When you hear who's been involved with this new project, it will blow your mind. I get all of these secrets and I'm always dying to share this stuff with you guys. But what I can share is he's interviewed some

of the most incredible people that you could regarding this issue. So if you sat down, if you thought, you know, I would love to hear from this person or that person. He's interviewed them. This next documentary it's going to be incredible and he'll be able to share information about it and it'll it's gonna come out soon after the UFO Congress, so you're gonna get a heads up on all of the cool stuff that's in there at the UFO Congress.

Just go to ufocongress dot com to register. Use the code save twenty five. That's uppercase save two five. When you're checking out, you'll get twenty five dollars off. I'm hooking you up. Dude. You gotta come and plus I'd love to see you, so come in and say hi. It's gonna be a ton of fun. That's September fourth through the eighth in downtown Phoenix, Arizona. So ufocongress dot com. Otherwise, I guess that is about it for now. Be sure to join us next week. We've

got a great show. It's gonna be Nick Pope, who worked for the Ministry of Defense at their UFO desk and he's always got great insights into all of what's going down with all of this because he's got experience working in the government for this type of thing. He also will be talking to us about these new uk UFO documents that have been published, so it's like, you know, they said that they released them all, but they didn't, So

find out more about these files next week. I want to thank Martin Willis a Podcast UFO for joining us at the beginning of the show with the news. I want to thank Caleb Hanks for the intro and the atro music of the show. He's got great stuff. Sometimes people ask about his music because they love it so much. I do too. If you go to the open Mindsufo radio site at openminds dot tv, you'll be able to see a link to his stuff. He posts a lot of his music for free,

and it's all really good stuff. I also want to thank Systematics for the bumper music, and I want to thank you the listeners for being here once again. Until next week, audio smooth tutos you mus