Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I have with me Martin UFO News. Willis all right, finally I get the title I deserve. Is that? Do you like that one? I like that one? Again? Do you know a lot about the news, the UFO news current UFO News? No, actually, but I still like the title. I was gonna say, because that's not why we hired you for the job. You think we would. That would be the primary, you know, qualification. But you're just a cool dude.
We actually, which is a good thing because that means that you're such a cool dude you don't even have to have knowledge in the area that you know the job pertains. That's right. I just talked to talk, but you know, walking, I don't know. That's kind of how it goes though, Like they say, it's who you know. I mean, often, being a cool dude will get you a job even if you don't know crap about what the job is that you're supposed to do. That's right.
Those who know doing those who don't know teach. I think that's what it is. Something like that. I heard something like that. Well, anyway, there you go. Showing off your charm again, right there, That's what it is, all right. So yeah, so the guest today. So I had a really good guest, but I don't anymore. Yes, you did so, and I won't say who. I'm not going to necessarily disparage this person. Maybe I should thinking about it, maybe, but I
had a really good guest who is a witness to a famous case. I won't tell you who this person had contacted me. I'll just say this that the way that they canceled, if you can call it that, at the last minute, was less than respectful. Yeah, les's an honorable This man has no honor. No. So yeah, so I'm I've definitely got It's not good, not good at all. So you knows your listeners are gonna like, okay, who was it? I know you're going to be getting
some email. But they do that a lot because whenever I talk about someone who made me mad who, or I talk bad about someone, I don't say their name mostly except for I think you know, there's a couple of people Michael Horn. I will say his name when I talk bad about him, but there's not many people that all all. And you know, bless his heart. I don't know that he's necessarily an evil person. We just disagree. But anyway, uh yeah, so you know that didn't work out?
Well, say who? Yeah, but I need you're not going to say the guests who it was. No, I'm not going to say who it is. But I told oh man, people might have heard that. What's it heard? What? Anyway? Yeah, cute, I'm gonna go beat that. By the way, the first thing that we've had conversation where I'm gonna have to edit. Oh no, yeah, okay, so but
that's okay. Here's the first time for everything. And I'm surprised we've gotten this far without me having to edit something, because I've expected maybe you to slip up in other ways. But anyway, my point is that, yes, and because I need to my listeners, I'm a daylight with a show, and I told them before that I may go a couple of weeks without a show and they hate that and they get mad, and I'm sorry, but you know, there was move On the move On symposium we went to.
There was also San Diego. I went to San Diego to hang out on the beach for a week, and I wasn't going to struggle to find, not like you, you were trying to get a guest. I was like, screw that, I'm going to the beach. Listeners be damned, and I hung out on the beach. That's all I did. Well, not true, because now I do real estate, and some real estate stuff came up, so I did have to do some work. But it's been a while since I've had a show, and I really wanted to do a
show. It's going to come back with a bang and have this great guest and get everybody excited, and it was going to be wonderful. And then this guy he screwed me. He screwed me and my listeners. You know, bad enough for me, but to do this to my poor listeners. So I apologize that I'm a daily with the show and my guest, though this week is a genius when it comes to UFO news. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, my guest today is Martin Willis. Yes, so we're just
gonna blab for like an hour. Cool, I suppose, And yeah, that's fine. I am excited to do this, But what can I say. I'm not your your guest, you know, I mean, I I'm second fiddle. But I'll do what I can here. No, stop it, stop it before hey, stop before you push pause or stop. Listener, people, we're gonna get into UFO stuff. We have lots of good UFO stuff. Because now they're probably like, oh yeah, they are just gonna blab and be boneheads this whole time. But no, we're gonna talk
UFO. We have good UFO stuff. Martin does know UFO news, we're just kidding earlier, and he does have some good We do have some really interesting UFO settings to talk about. So before we lose them all, why don't we just get into the UFO news. Does that sound good? Yeah? I think we better quickly? Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. Okay, so uh go for it. What's the right story you got? Well? I think this is an interesting one and it was posted rely
by Roger Marsh and there's a video involved as well. Tennessee Witness describes UFO as a orange line and this happened at UH in Nashville, and there's a video of it. And I do caution the person that's going to watch the video that there is some foul language on the video, which seems to happen quite a bit when it comes to people filming UFOs, and I understand because people are kind of like baffled, what the heck is that? And they
use other words. Yeah, it's almost if someone sees a UFO, the knee jerk reaction is not to grab the phone, it's to say what the f is that? And then grab the phone and film if they if they have their wits about them, and continue to say over and over again, what the f is that? Which is the case in this film? That is and it isn't. It is a pretty interesting video to watch, and I do encourage you to, you know, if you can get by the
language, of course, you can watch it. And there is you know a lot of times you'll see on these videos you can't really you know, an iPhone or whatever it is he filmed it on. You know, it doesn't have all that great of quality when it comes to it to nighttime sightings, but this definitely shows up. And there's a couple of stills in there of this story you can check out too. So the guy basically here's a
quote from him. My first thought was that it may be the moon behind a cloud cover or something like that, but it was directly above me at the time, and there was no cloud cover at all that night. I still haven't thought of anything else it might be. I couldn't make out the features of the object as it was very dark and it was far enough away I couldn't see any details on it, but it did have lights on it, and he's filming it, and a couple of hours before the sighting he
started feeling uneasy. He did mention that I've heard other people say stuff like that, and I don't know if that's related or just quin coincidentally, and so this came out. I think it was around midnight that he saw this, and so he films it, and you know, he is talking the whole time he's filming it, and then all of a sudden the object disappeared, which again you always hear a lot of people say, and then he
felt strangely calm and peaceful for the rest of the night. Interesting. You know, I've heard of people saying that, you know, like the Allagash, they felt like really tired afterwards after they thought they just had a sighting, but it was more than a sighting. So it is interesting how people can say kind of the same thing or so more things. They have these
type of sightings. Yeah, this is a weird one. Okay. So this was investigated by Jula Sheer and field investigator Roy Messer of the Tennessee Move On and it's still closed as an unknown, which they often do. Mm
hmm. Yeah. And you know what, there's a good point someone made in the comments here that the photo that is taken of the daytime where someone he took a picture of his alleged perspective does not match up with the video unless he zoomed in quite a bit, because the video dish seemed to show like a couple of radio towers to the left of this bright, long, kind of orange light, and those radio towers cannot be seen in the daylight
image. So the radio towers also often indicate that this is on a hill, So this object could be on a hill. However, the object is a little bit higher. It's like mid radio tower. It's not like, you know, on the bottom. So I mean it could be something on a hill, but it's long and bright. You know, a car is not going to look like that. So this one is a big mystery. I'm glad that you brought this one up because I forgot about this one.
It's funny because I'll write these stories and then I forget about them, and sometimes it's not till the end of the year that I when I put together the best cases, that I remember them. But yeah, this is a weird one. I don't know what the heck this one is. And but it would be nice if someone could go get a picture of the actual area. In fact, maybe we can email the move On investigators and see if
they can do that. But it's a weird one. Yeah, no, they It could be the place where he saw the the object or whatever it was, but at a different angle. In other words, he may be facing the wrong way, you know, Yeah, just turning the wrong way if there's mountains on the other side, or you're right, radio towers, so you know, the majority of them are on a higher level, you know, like mountains and hills things like that. Yeah, so this is a good one. Yeah, that's it for me on this one though.
Yeah. He did say he zoomed into, though, and in the picture that he provided of the data, it doesn't look like he zoomed in, so that could be the difference. And on the horizon it looks like there are some hills, so maybe he was just zoomed in a bunch when he took the video, and he's not in this picture. That is a possibility, I think. So yeah, one for people to check out. The other one is it my turn now? Oh yeah, true turn sweet. The other one I want to talk about is one I just posted, and
this is also a good one. I think this one was a New York witness between Florida and Gosh, which don't sound like they sound like countries or something, but these are, you know, a couple of weird named towns in New York, Florida and Ghosh, Gosh. I'm not sure. I think it's yeah ghost. If it's German, one of these German towns, you know, it would be Giche more like giche. Oh really, I know that's really yeah. I think that's how they pronounce huh. Yeah.
It's pretty weird. But anyways. This guy says he was driving with his girlfriend at nine between nine and ten pm on August fourth when they saw this light. It was to their left. They describe a completely lit surface on a craft with blinking lights and if you look at the video, that's kind of what you see it. If you didn't know anybody better, you would think it was a disc with a notch, and in that notch there's a blinking light, which is really weird. Now, So you just see this
light and this guy is taking a video of this. It's somewhat reminiscent of the Turkey videos. Some people may remember there were these videos taken in Turkey that are pretty interesting and debated. Now, those Turkey videos, unfortunately,
I have a feeling might be a reflection from the lens. It's there's a phenomena that happens with lenses, and this guy had a big, you know, zoom lens attached to his camera where a single point of light can reflect on the rim inside the lens and where the rim and the lens has these notches, and it can create this image that the Turkey video got with this distinct notch, and that's what was captured, or that's what a lot of
people feel, and some people have demonstrated pretty well that that could be what happened in Turkey, however, and this one has a distinct notch, but this one looks different. And the other weird thing is the blinking the on and off light in the middle of this notch. So this is a really weird one pretty strange. Yeah, I think it's I think it's really an incredible looking whatever it is. Yeah, I mean it's a great video. And another one this doesn't really a lot of There is a little bit of
a language in this one too, but anyway, it's uh. The one thing I did want to ask you, going back to the Turkey UFO that you just talked about, I think that's fascinating, but didn't people say they saw that with the naked eye as well. But the problem is all they saw was a point of light and it's I mean, to me, the descriptions of that light fit a star, they fit like Venus or something.
So that's the problem with that one. There were other sightings, and some people say, well, even if it was that, there were other sightings, but sure, there's other sightings everywhere. That doesn't necessarily mean, you know, that phenomena that was captured by Roger Lear by other people was not And you know, I looked into this really I thought I'd be able to figure out what it was very quickly, and I wrote a story in Open Mind's magazine where I felt lots of the theories didn't fit. So I was
left thinking I don't know what the heck this is. And finally, only like a year ago, some people had sent me some information about this theory and that may fit about the reflection inside the lens. But hmm, yeah, it does seem to that could be what this is. But I would want to see, you know, it's still in both cases, it's still a point of light that is in the sky, and in this case there's
a blinking going on. Yeah, this one seems a little more involved than that to me, and the other witnesses sound like it sounded like they were seeing it as well. And by the way, that is pronounced gosh, oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing you pointed out about this video is what you're going to point out again, no go ahead, is that this guy is, like if he's listening, I don't know even if he is, he could he a little bit nicer to his girlfriend and apparently mom,
who was there, that's what you mean. Yeah, Yeah, he's not very nice. Yeah, and you know, maybe he's stressed out or something, but he doesn't treat them very respectfully. He was telling them to shut up, and I was almost for a second, I was thinking, Man, I hope that where you don't hear any sort of domestic violence going on here. Yeah, and almost suddenly that could be an issue. Yeah,
he keeps telling him to shut up. But I don't know, a lot of us can be nicer to our girlfriends at times, well vice versa more often, you know, we sometimes we tell our loved ones to shut up a little too much. Maybe. Yeah, So maybe this video gives us all a chance to reflect on our actions and how we treat the people we love. Yeah, especially if you're seeing a UFO. Be nice to your witnesses. Yeah, but it is a good video. They need them. No, it's really a great video. Really weird. Yeah, anything
else? I felt like you were going to say something else about it. No. I think it goes on for a pretty long time. And there's also an object that does appear and disappear, but you can't see it. They see it, but we can't see it on the video. Some red object appears to the left of it, according to the eyewitnesses while they were talking. Yeah, very little information seemed to come across with this video, so it is being investigated by the local move on. This isn't another one
from Roger Marsh, Director of Communications for mofon. So this one's still being looked into and who what's got lots of likes. I thought people would like this one because I just posted it. But it's just a really weird video. It's it's not besides a turkey video. I don't think I've ever seen
anything like this video. And not only that, it's very clear for an iPhone and a nighttime sighting right Unlike the last video where you have to zoom in to see the object, this one is just right there, right in your face. It's it's clear, and it takes up a good part of the screen, so you can definitely understand this person's excitement. One thing they did mention in this video where the one of the girls mentioned, was is it possible it's a blimp? And no, so that is a possibility,
but the whole thing I think so too. And he said, that's not a blimp. Shut up. No, he didn't say it like that. I think he did. Well. She was bugging him because it sounds like she was worried they were going to get hit that they didn't pull over far enough on the side of the road, I think, And so he's like, whatuit bothering? Me about that. So yeah in New York. Yeah,
so yeah, so that it's really good. So other than you know that, there's not other necessarily news I want to talk about, but there is something we've done recently I would like to talk about and get your opinion on. I am all ears, Okay, So I finally put together I've been telling people about this Open Minds magazine and how we're kind of re launching it and doing it in a video format and stuff like this, and we
finally got it done, and I'm so excited about it. And I'm really excited about this piece because essentially, if you haven't watched it, and I know many of you listeners have not listened to it, because I know how many listeners we have for the most part, and I can see how many hits we have in the video. Now, not to say that the video hasn't gotten a lot of hits. It has, but it can't get more. And I just am very excited to share this with my listeners and and
to share this information. So the video starts off where I explained what Open Minds Magazine is and how we're going to start to look at this phenomenon, how the government and military and public have reacted to it, and it's kind of setting the base. So talking about how Project Blue Book, of course was the first investigation by the Air Force, well that there were other projects involved, but that the Air Force did look into all of this stuff and
the Air Force said, essentially there isn't anything to it. However, they the files themselves, of course, tell a different story because a lot of these files are very interesting. You know, they've said there's seven hundred and twelve or or you know, all of these numbers of unknowns. That number is inflex because you know, depending on different reports, you get different numbers. But there were hundreds of unknowns, some of which were very very good.
We've got one on our front page actually too, if people look at the military section, one of the best Blue Book unknowns. I like it because it's a bunch of police officers from several different precincts who saw this UFO.
But what's great about the nineteen fifty two Washington sidings, which I cover here, is that, in particular is that this was witnessed over the Capitol, so the most secure locations in the United States, and they were witnessed by the Blue Book investigators Bluebook investigators from the Pentagon raced over to National Airport in Washington, DC to go into the control tower to see these objects being picked up on radar, to scramble jets, to be there when the jets
cannot catch the objects, and so they were there. They were present the whole time. The best the reason we have such detail on what happened there is because of Edward Rupelt's book who was He was the man in charge of blue Book during this period of time, and he tells us in his book
in detail what had happened. So all of that, I think it's really important to show that the Air Force did witness cases that they thought could be extraterrestrial, and that the Air Force wasn't all on the same page to think that there was nothing to this. And I end it with the idea because this is essentially blue Book. We've all heard of blue Book, We've all looked at these old cases, So this is the only episode that will address
that sort of thing directly. But I ended with that to set the base that they did continue to look into UFOs and as they said when they closed Project blue Book, that the most important cases were not going through book, blue book. They were going through their regular procedures and why is that important?
Because then we're going to get into what were their regular procedures for reporting UFOs and what were some of these really important cases that made it to the most important methods of you know, essentially really high important incidents, how they get reported, and why some UFO cases have made it to that reporting system. So that's essentially setting the base for this that it was a big deal
to the Air Force continues to be a big deal. And I think that this is a new era for this because I don't think people have looked at this in this detail or looked at those issues so much. We get caught up in these real kind of fringe conspiracy theories and stuff like that. Not only that, the idea of an organization spinning information so they don't get embarrassed is par for the course these days. I think the average person is much more savvy about that. What do you think, right? Yeah? And
I think the government is much more savvy about that as well. Well. And I think that the average person is much more savvy about the idea that everybody does this. Oh that's interesting, Yeah, I mean everybody does it. Politicians, sure, government, I mean every product. Unfortunately, I've been saying this that you know, typically the commercials are false. You know, it's like it's okay to lie, it's okay to spin. That's just
kind of the culture. So I think people can better understand that just because the Air Force said they weren't interested, doesn't mean they weren't and that can be demonstrated. Yeah, and you know a lot of this when you go back to you know, nineteen forty seven, when they first started investigating UFOs, we had just gotten through World War Two, and everybody like took the government's word for one hundred percent face value and you know, led us through
the war safely and all that. But as time went on, as time has gone on, there's just many more cases where the government has either covered things up and has been found out about it. So why not UFOs.
It's something unexplainable and something that you know, they say it's not a threat to national security, maybe because there's never been any real threats to national security from a UFO, but still for them to not be able to understand or to understand what's actually going on in our skies, it's still like a mystery.
We really don't know what the government really thinks about it well, and you know, a couple we have some interviews that are in there where we just get a few quotes from people just to show that you know, there there are others who have observed this and who understand it, and very credible people who are insiders when it comes to the government. So we have Colonel John Alexander who was with Army Intelligence. We have Nick Pope, who of
course worked for the UK Ministry of Defense investigating UFOs. And the other person we have because I think someone who's been doing great work in this area is Paul Dean. Dean who both of us have. You've interviewed him so if I and I'll continue to. But he is doing some great work and putting these pieces together. But you know, some people, and I don't know how well I think, I don't know how you feel, because a lot of people will say, you know, oh, Colonel John Alexander and Nick
Pope they're with you know, how can you trust what they say? They're they're part of the hiding the information. And I don't believe that to be true having known them for many many years now, both of them are have been especially nick instrumental and bringing credibility to the idea that UFOs are real phenomenon.
And the point is is if even if they were some sort of part of some sort of disinformation, to engage them or to discuss I mean, you've got to catch them in a liar or something, which I don't believe has happened to this point. I am not afraid to challenge either of them when I do my interviews, but because it's not necessarily that I disagree with them, but I know people do, and I like to explore those ideas
because I don't know how I feel about some of those things. But I think that we can just do this intelligently enough where we can put pieces together
to put together more of a story than what we currently have. And that's what I'm trying to do and to get that across to people, because I think what's going to be really interesting going forward is looking at these lesser own type of things, you know, like these systems that were used to alert high you know, the command of very important situations, and that they were in fact used for UFO situations. Right, and I'm still going on today.
I would guess can we talk more about this, this, this whole flap during nineteen fifty two is Yeah, let's do because I wanted to ask you since you've watched the video and I've been so immersed in all of this information for so long, did you see Steph in there that you didn't know
about? Yes? Well, first of all, one of the things I didn't know about right off the bat, and I'm I'm gonna be honest with you, and that is the videos that I've seen in the past and pictures about the UFOs over the Capitol. I never realized that was just a reflection of the lampposts and how how so that is something I learned in the video right off the bat to talk about that, But how how does that happen where the light posts make the reflections in the sky like that? Is that
a camera? Yeah? So essentially it's totally a camera lens thing. So what you're talking about is I mentioned that there are no pictures or video from the nineteen fifty two Washington event. There are alleged pictures and video, but none of those panned through. They all have either been mistakes mistakenly you know, from nineteen fifty two or we're recreations. So for instance, all the videos are recreations from documentaries, and the most famous picture, the when you're
talking about it appears it's actually from the sixties. Nightcap is the best source, and I think I'm pretty sure I have a link in there to the Nightcap investigation. But if you go into Nightcap, I think they've got the best examination of that photo. It's not completely sure where the photo came from. People are pretty certain they've been able to determine it's actually from the sixties. But it's actually not too difficult because even if I tell you this now,
you'll probably go aha. And once I read this, I kind of did the same thing. They line up perfectly with the lights. Look at the shape of the lights and then look at the lamp posts below and you'll see they're exactly the same. So it is reflectant or I think it may be technically refraction someone you can read in the analysis, But it's the same
thing that happened with like these Texas videos and stuff. And I've got we get these videos of someone going down the highway recording with their phone these ring lights, you know, or taking a picture of this. Those lights are reflections of the highway lights. Typically the highway lights are so bright you can't tell the configuration of the lights there. But usually those pictures, it turns out like those ring of lights are exactly the same configuration as the highway lights.
It's because of the reflection. It's the same sort of thing that's going on here. Really bright lights just can reflect in a lens and then appear elsewhere. So it's how you get land flares and stuff like that. So yeah, So that one is not to take away from the amazing story that it is, but that was just one part of it that I have just taken for granted that that picture and images were in effect the real You have
one of the real UFO sightings. But the thing goes along a lot longer than I expect that it has in the Washington area, and you point that out in the video how it starts and and you know the final I think it's pretty interesting that it was ongoing even the night on July twenty ninth of the press the press conference they had. Yeah, and I think that's another
thing that I think people UFO people have seen this press conference. So essentially when the nineteen fifty two thing happened, and the Air Force witnessed the event happen. One of the jet pilots then spoke to the press and said, you know, we chased these things, we couldn't catch them. That's where you get the famous photos of the Washington Post where it says jet outpaced by
saucer and then there's a quote in there from the jet pilot. So the Air Force felt pressured then to make a comment, so they had a press conference and General Samford, who was a Director of Air Force Intelligence at the time, was a one to do the conference. But, like Rupelt said, he didn't have a clue to what the investigation was. He was not briefed on the investigation. The investigation had only just begun, and so he didn't know what the investigation was. But if you're just going to do a
spin, you don't need to know. You just tell people what you want him to hear, which of course is what the Air Force did a lot of when it came to UFOs. So Samford comes out the interesting thing, and this is where people will recognize the video, and that's what's fun because people know the video, but they might not know what it's related to. This nineteen fifty two event, because he does say, you know, in our investigations of UFOs, most of them are not interesting, but some of
these are some very credible people reporting some incredible things. But that was part of this press conference. But he did say that the Washington sidings were temperature most likely temperature inversions. However, that only would playing the radar part of it, not the visual part. Also, uh, the they had already ruled that out in their investigation because right, they were aware of the inversions exactly, they were aware of the inversions. They never mistook them for UFOs.
Mm hmm. It just was a good spin on yeah at the time, well, and it was it was an answer that would appease everyone and hopefully deflate, you know, all of the attention and make people the news cover the next story and get their answers so they can move on. So
yeah. So it's really interesting though that now we have on YouTube to this day, you know, General Sanford at this press conference making these statements, right, And I think it's pretty interesting also that these pilots reported that, you know, as they got near the objects, how they would disappear but still be there on radar. Now to me that wouldn't you know, there wouldn't be any any other answer for it, that it was, you know,
a total unknown. I almost said extraterrestrial, but I didn't. Yeah, right, I mean they saw these things. That's the other thing. You don't temperature and versions, as far as we know, do not floras. They don't make some sort of you know, bright light. They don't
emanate any bright light. So where as these objects were and what's interesting, I mean really I think what would be what's interesting another story or if someone maybe somebody's done this is to really lay down all of the incidents where jets were scrambled after lights that were also caught on radar and couldn't catch them, because it's happened many many other times. Helt covers these in his book.
In fact, he said that I can't during this flap, there was a really big case in San Diego where that had happened at a military base as well. Wow, And so there was a number of times that they just said that they were trying to chase these things things and just could not gain on them basically at full at full speed. Right, So was it?
Yeah? So outpaced is like the term they use so, yeah, this sighting is just so important for so many reasons and and I think it's it lays down really well the importance and I and what's great is having Nick Pope as a part of you know, his comments in the video too, because I think he puts it really well as to what the military would be thinking and and we're thinking when this took place, right, And I had never heard of Major Dewey fournee either, if that's how you say his name,
of his involvement in this, but didn't didn't RuPaul Edward RuPaul didn't he show up during a flat but he did not witness it. Well, that means during one of the sightings, Yeah, the big sighting where the air Force saw what had happened, where like you said, where the people went from the Pentagon to National Airport, he was not there. Which is kind of funny because he talks about how he went to Washington, DC a week prior
for unrelated business. When he got to his hotel, there were a bunch of reporters there and his friend had to get him through all this crowd of reporters asking questions and they were asking about UFOs. So there had been UFO sidings that were in the paper. He was not aware. That day, called is Superior, said hey, what's going on? They said, you know, you can go get briefed at the Bowling Air Force Base where they, you know, were part of this whole thing. They described essentially the
same thing, jets being scrambled. They couldn't catch them. Jets took forever because they weren't sure. I guess they even wanted to go chase UFOs. But so the same kind of thing happened. So he was supposed to stay and investigate, but because he was there for unrelated business, he had to get an extension. It's kind of a funny story about the bureaucracy. So he had to go to get permission to spend the money to essentially have more money to stay in Washington, DC. And he had to go through all
these bureaucratic you know, and back then more so than now. You've got to go to the office. You can't do this stuff online or you don't have a cell phone, so you've got to find a phone. You've got to go to this office, go to that office, back and forth, and it just wasn't physically possible. He had to catch cabs to go here and there, and finally he just they he couldn't get the paperwork approved and done on time, so he just had to go back to Wright Patterson and
so he was back there when this all took place. He did fly immediately to DC after everything took place, and then got briefed the next morning, so he was there for the press conference. But he said it was just too much a cluster it really they didn't even really get in a full investigation because it was just a mess that. You know, they have very few resources and you know, this is where you get some insight, I think
into what's going on here. They have very few resources towards this, and they just wanted, you know, as far as the PR part, to push it, shove it under the rut. Now, was there a full investigation going on by this, Uh? You know, their regular reporting systems that go to whoever investigate these important incidences. Probably, we don't have any evidence of that that I am aware of, but probably. But who that
went to and when is the hard thing to know. But we do know other cases went to these places and those cases are great, So that will be in future episodes of Open Minds magazine the video version. Getting back to the scrambling of the jets, because I'm stuck on that right. Yeah, now as you see, Yeah, what do you suppose they would do if if they could actually catch them? You know, is it just to observe?
Is that what they're told to do? Well? I mean, in this case, it sounds like observe, because like they said, that's another interesting thing is that you know, they they had the press and everybody leave the control pat tower once they saw that they were getting these jets and these objects were there, because they really felt we might get a close up look at a UFO. We might be able to get to see what these things look like. Maybe we'll be able to look into a window. Who knows,
and they didn't want people to know. Who knows what they would have done at that at that point, but yeah, it was too observed. Maybe they would have decided to, I don't know, maybe to shoot one down so they could get an idea of what it looks like. I guess at that point I would imagine And it's kind of like what Nick talks about, is that they do demonstrate a threat. I mean, it's an unknown object with unknown motives. You know, in highly secure airspace. I think
maybe they would have. But then again, you know, you try to shoot at it, you could be endangering all of the people on the ground. It could you know, what if it blows up like the Deaths Star and you take out all of DC accidentally because you shot this this flex capacitor
that creates this huge mushroom cloud. Yeah. No, it must be hard to be the decision person on this, right, like you know what to tell them to do, and you know, I'm sure that I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that at the time the president was alerted to this. Well, there is someone who commented that they feel that they can see in the record the president was consulted on this, but we don't know for sure, so because I guess that the people there indicate that he possibly or probably
was. But so, but that's a yeah, really interesting question. Yeah, and so how long are you aware that this flap go on over Washington? I know it said the twenty ninth, there was I think it began a few weeks ahead of time before that in the general area, but within one hundred miles of Washington, DC, right, Yeah, I don't know for sure. I mean, nineteen fifty two was a flap. He talked about fifty three. A lot of this is in Rupelt's book, where he
has talked about these flaps and how long they last and everything. And like I tell people, Rupelt's book I think is maybe one of, if not the most important books to read. I think that if you're really starting in this field, that's the book where you should. I think that gives you a good grounded perspective at what the Air Force did and why, and from that you can kind of stem off to other things. But yeah, it's
all in his book. So DC. There's somebody else who made me aware of a book that they wrote about Washington d C sightings, and they said they were kind of challenging me that there weren't video or photographs. But I looked in that book, and I don't know if he understood that. I just meant for that fifty two event. In fact, we have a sighting from Washington, d C recently that we posted on the site. So there
are other sightings and other things seen. But yeah, this person's book contends that, you know, it's been one of the biggest sighting areas of anywhere. But he also, you know, says he believes these are extraterrestrials that are visiting us too, and he believes they're making contact and all of this other stuff. But yeah, I guess you'd have to look at the record. I don't know for sure, you know, how many sightings in the
DC area. And essentially, what my goal was is to demonstrate, and you know, I tell this to other people, is that my goal is to make as strong a case as possible for the legitimacy of this UFO research, but also to demonstrate more accurately what happened. Because the media has a perception that the Air Force didn't take the UFO seriously, nor did they investigate
them after nineteen sixty nine, and that's just not true. That many people in the Air Force believe that the extra interrestrial answer could be what's going on, and that they took these cases very seriously, as they should. But the question, the big question, which a lot of people have feelings about, but I don't feel we have evidence regarding is examining who was looking at what in the government and what they determined. And that's what I think it's
fascinating. I think it's fascinating Paul Deine's work, of course, John Greenwald's work and others trying to get those answers, and people like Nick Pope seemingly only has a little more information than we do, same with John Alexander. But there could be information out there, and that's what we need to look
for. And I think some of the things like Paul Dean has found, which we will be highlighting in upcoming episodes and stories, are not things that have been really discussed in this field before, as far as who was looking
at web right right. One of the things that it does mention about one of the sites that I thought it was pretty interesting on the object's speeds were clocked at first one hundred to one hundred and thirty miles per hour, which was for an aircraft would be fairly slow, and then speeds were clocked up to seven thousand miles per hour. So of course they're going to investigate something like that, and you know that can't be an inversion as well, that
would speeds like that, I don't believe. And one of the things that Nick makes a point of, and Rupeelt and others, and I think that there's just a real misunderstanding. We often use this term government and other people say this, but Rupelt's book demonstrates this and to do Nick and I think John's comments, and it's something we have to continue to remember, is that
government, it's not like that is one big organization. You know, let's have a government meeting and there's a big table and everybody, Okay, what's going on here? And that that there are multiple different departments. So when something happens such as Washington, DC, and I think Nick even says this in here in the video, is that, you know, the first thing you're thinking is, okay, whose is this? Is this right? You know that is this a navy thing? Is this a skunk works thing?
You know, they're thinking more along the lines of, okay, it's one of ours, one of our guys, is we just don't know about it, and we may never know about this project because it's none of our business. And you know, but that's probably what it is. So that's what they're thinking, first of all, is that, you know, there's many different organizations doing different things. We don't know what they're up to, but we know they're capable and I can ask, but they may not answer.
So that's the first thing they're thinking. So, but in this case, and that's what's great about this case is that they're able to see that these things, Okay, wow, this isn't you know, the Navy, this isn't DARPA or somebody else. This is something that's beyond beyond that, because they're not gonna fly it over Washington, d C. First of all. Yeah, so there's a lot going on where they don't know. And Nick Pope says, this a lot. I don't know if other departments were doing
other things. They probably were. I've heard stories of other people doing this and that, but you know, I don't have the information to say what others were necessarily doing. And just like in the end of our story where we say showed this boat, talk about this Bolander memo where he says that, you know, these cases having to deal with national security go elsewhere.
So there are other elsewheres and who those are we don't know. And Nick is kind of akin to Rupelt where he knows there were other elsewhees, but who they are he's not necessarily sure. So's it's just so very very complicated, and there's always the need to know basis too. Yeah, there's always the need to know, there's always budgets, there's always in fighting, there's always bureaucracy. There are all these things that get in the way and cause
all of these issues. So it makes it, it would make it, I think, very difficult for any one organization to handle all of that. So so yeah, so even if we have these advanced research groups looking into it, I think our best case scenario, most likely scenario, would be think tanks. That's kind of why I called my first group UFO think tank. That that's often what happens is you have groups that are kind of think tanks, that are policy advisors or advisors who are able to say, you
know, here's what might be going on. But they're often the ones with the largest amount of information on given subjects. However, often they they're private organizations, so they don't have to share their findings or any of their information, which makes it very convenient then because then they're not a subject to FOYA or anything like that. So and that's what it might just come down to. It's interesting, Nick Pope told me in Roswell, I don't know if
I shared this with you or my listeners. I was asking Nick Pope because I'm really interested about Project Condine. Project Condinne was a report that was put together by the mod essentially and people in the government interested in UFOs. It was a top secret investigation. People like John. He's one of the witnesses at Rendelsham, John Burrows, he talks about it a lot because they mentioned
Rendell Sho. Now they speculated that UFOs could be a plasma sort of phenomena, but they did acknowledge it as a phenomena, but the UK often does. If you heard my talk at MUFON about government UFO agencies, you would have heard that there too. But what's interesting about Condon is that it's kind of they don't consult really any plasma experts, and there's reading Condon, you
get this idea that there's a lack of thorough examinations of their theories. So I asked Nick Pope, why did Project Condon, which eventually came out I think in twenty twelve. We didn't find out get the full report till then. But why was the report put together? First of all? And second all of all, why is it so shallow? Why aren't more experts consulted? They're speculating about a plasma phenomena, yet we have no you know,
indication that such a plasma phenomena exists. I mean, who are these scientists working on these theories of these plasma phenomenons and why isn't there research on that in here, because that would be pertinent and interesting to go down that road to you know, say that that's what's going on. And Nick said, well, here's the thing, is that that the report exists is really important because it's essentially UFO junkies. It's people in the government and in intelligence who
are interested in the UFO phenomena. They think there's more to it, so they pushed for another investigation. The problem was it's a top secret investigation, so you can't really you're very limited on who you can consult because if you consult someone, you've just tip them off that this investigation is going on, and you can't do that. So you can't question someone about UFO scientists and otherwise because they're not in the loop and they don't have clearances or they can't
know about the investigation, so they can't be part of it. So it can't be that thorough of an investigation then, which is really funny because it's kind of the silliness of the bureaucracy, but it shows the limitations and the limitations of that then investigation. Now John Burrows is saying that, you know, this is evidence that the UK government knows that I was affected by a
UFO and that is called my health issue, caused my health issues. But the paper are all it does is speculate, and it does speculate that that perhaps because John Burrows and people at Reynoldstrom say they got close to one of these things, these balls of light, that this plasma phenomenon has some sort of radiation and that's how they got health issues. But it's just speculation.
There's no science added to that. There's no you know, they don't and if you can go read it, you could go download Project Condine and read it right now. So and I review that in a story about John Burrows. But it's yeah, so it's it's interesting, Now didn't the didn't the government award him his medical What am I trying to think there was some type of lawsuit? So that's kind of monumental, right, there actually isn't it?
That there was issues They didn't admit to issues. So that's the thing is that by giving John Burrows his disability, which he's saying in the facto, they're acknowledging that I was my health issues are related to a UFO, not necessarily. So essentially what happens is it's not uncommon. And I've interviewed his lawyer and you could too. I could get you in touch with him
if you wanted to. So I asked him about this. He said, it's not uncommon for people who work in top secret areas to have things like medical records otherwise classified so they can't be used when with the VA or something like that. However, what happens is you go through a process where they can still approve your disability or approve without giving doctors or others the files.
And that's the process they went through. So all it did was then acknowledge he has an now whole issue that may have been related to his military career, and so he was then awarded what he was given. So that's all
they're really saying. They're not specifically saying anything. The strange part is, though, is that his lawyer I can't remember his name right now, says, although it is not strange for this to happen, it is strange because John Burrows was not any on any classified detail, he was not working on any classified projects, there is no reason for his medical records to be withheld.
So that's a mystery that still exists. And I think that's a really important and strange mystery is why won't they release John Burrow's medical records, which they haven't, And that is an unanswered question still. So it us all allude to possibly having to do with the Rendall scham Forrest. I mean,
that's the only thing that makes sense, So it's all circumstantial. Going to the next step to say de facto, you know, it might be a little steep, but I think you would have a hard time with convincing many of that letting in the mainstream, But those who are familiar with the case and familiar with you know, it does seem that that's the only thing in his military career that could warrant his records being kept. So and that coupled
with Project Condine, are they looking into these plasma phenomena? Who knows? You know who is go ahead? No, you go ahead? No. I was just saying, are the other witnesses that also have their medical records with health as classified? I believe that. And I can't remember the details. I would have to check, but I believe that his buddy you know who was also out there, yeah, Penison. I believe his records were
also withheld. Yeah, okay, what were you going to say? I was gonna say, you know who is looking into plasma phenomenon related to UFOs? No, the universe, guess if you want no, no, no, forget it. The University of Norway. Oh, because of the hesdeline exactly because of the hesdelin lights and so Muffon actually had erling Strand, who was a professor who is part of the research into the plasma phenomena. He had some very very interesting things to say. I'm sure that's that. That's
up. I know we're we're getting way, we're going around in different topics, but I think that, uh wow, I'm just really what's it called when someone up? I'm setting you up? Okay, this is what it is? All right? Yeah, but you got it. You're not You're supposed to be like you're supposed to make it. I just want to do I know, but I wanted to do one of these awkward moments. Yeah, those are fun. Yeah, that's why I was kind of playing along
because it's fun to do the awkward thing. Yeah. So what I was setting up for you is like, oh wow, what did he talk about? And I was going to say, well, lucky for you and anybody else who wants to come to the UFO Congress. I haven't even announced this yet, but Earling Strand will be speaking at the UFO Congress in February. Yay. So a professor that is conducting a UFO investigation as part of his university work. Now they do it pretty much under the auspices of investigating a
plasma phenomenon. However, he says this is no plasma phenomenon. He doesn't believe that theory, which is I think fascinating. That's one of the best takeaways I took from the Muffon conference this year is that. Yeah. Interestingly enough, Irling Strand does not subscribe to this plasma theory that Project Condine and others have put forth for some of these UFO cases. Do you know if he stands alone in this or are there other people that have the same opinion.
That is a great question. He did not answer that in his talk at the symposium. It's a great question. I think for him, and it's a great question to ask him at the UFO Congress February twenty seventeen. Yeah, UFO Congress dot Com. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I'm excited about that because I'm going to be there again. Really. Yeah, that's awesome looking forward to it. Yep, it's so awesome that you come
to that every every year. Now, that was a major goal of mine to get you there, and you are going now, so that is really really cool. And so yeah, you'll be able to see erling Strand there. Some of the other speakers at the Moufon Symposium were Tony Angiola and Ben Moss. They talked about Socorro and I'm going to have them on my show next week. So we've got it scheduled. My show will be on time. People, we'll have another show next week. Yeah. Great. Those
two guys are fun. Yeah, they're cool, and I'm really looking forward to hearing the show because I know, even if you know a lot about that show and you've spoken in the past or read Ray Stanford's book, there's still some things that are going to be revealed next week, right, I don't know, you must know more than I do. Well, I'm guessing they have not promised me anything that is groundbreaking and new, but it is. I mean, they know more about the Siicoro New Mexico UFO sighting.
In fact, the last administrator of Project blue Book, Hector Kintania, who was a skeptic, he said that the Siicoro New Mexico case was the best case and the only case he found convincing during his tenure as the head of Project Blue Book. So yeah, we'll talk all about this crazy Succorde case, but we will get into details that others don't know. In fact that you know, they went into a lot of stuff I did not know about the sucur O case, and so I'm really excited to talk to them about
it some more next week. Yeah, have them if you think of it. I would like to know more about the symbol. Okay, the symbol was on the craft and lannie Zamora was told to not reveal the symbol, the correct symbol because they were afraid of any copycats. So they could they could find out if someone was a copycat and would if they released the symbol for what lannie Zamora was supposed to have seen, then they would know one way or the other wather, the people would be telling the truth. So
finally the real symbol is going to be revealed. What was already revealed? Sorry, ready revealed? Okay you know yeah, because Ray, I told you I didn't know anything about UFO News. You were right. Yeah, Ray revealed that like a year or two ago, but it's only been fairly recent that Ray wrote the story up and revealed that story. I remember that because, yeah, I thought that was fascinating. Yeah, I should know
that because I do speak with Ray, Yeah, you do. Yeah, I talked to him and or he mentioned in an email to me or something that Martin came to my house. You got to come to my house, and I wish I could go to lots of people's houses, but he was just so enamored with you. Oh well, I'll tell you. He is an amazing guy, you know, and I think he did a wonderful job on the book. It's I believe there's stole some copies out there of his
book. It's called Flying Saucers in the Pentagon Pantry, The Lonnies and moor Case or something like that. I'll bring it up. But that is definitely the best book, even Lonnie Samara told his daughter that was the only real good story written about it from Ray Stanford. Yep, yep, Yeah, raise the guy, and we'll be plugging him a lot next week because Ben and Tony have gotten most of their stuff. You know, they work with Ray. They kind of raise investigation team. So yeah, so we'll talk
about that. So is there anything else you wanted to talk about, my friend? I think I'm pretty much expended here. I can't think of anything else. I think I definitely want people to check out the video that you have posted on the nineteen fifty two UFO flap in Washington, DC. Very very well done, I got to tell you, very nicely done, and you will definitely learn something. I do believe. I think you will, and I, you know, think this is a good piece to send to
your skeptical friends. That's what we're trying to do, because if you send this to a skeptic, I think it just it very firmly demonstrates that this subject was not a joke to the Air Force and that there, you know, there, there's something substantial here. So and that's what I think we we wanted. What I'm trying to do is to demonstrate even to mainstream media.
In fact, I'm working on in the next couple of days posting this story to Huffington Post that you know this, Uh, there's a lot of pieces here that if you follow the government story, uh that the official record, you see that there is some fascinating, mysterious stuff that went on that baffled even serious Air Force investigators. M M. Yeah, it's a great one. Thank you, Thank you very much. So if you want to stick around while I close it out, yeah, sure, So thank you
for joining us again for another great show. Wow. This Martin Willis guy is awesome. So he'll be back next week hopefully, assuming he doesn't hurt himself or some or get sick or something or have to go to the beach. But Martin is dedicated, so even if he goes to the beach, he's still going to do an interview. So that's really cool, more than I can say for myself. Although I was getting kind of wound up in stressed, so the beach did me very good. I wish I was still
there. In fact, so go to Open Minds at TV to get all those news stories at Martin and I talked about those two video stories especially, Go check those out the Tennessee one that was actually posted September fourteenth, about a week ago, and then the New York Cylinder UFO video which was just posted today. And let us know what you think, you know, put in the comments, Oh Man Martin, you're right, this is cool, or a hundre, You're an idiot, this is stupid. You know whatever
you want. I know you're gonna post that, but no, people are pretty nice. But yeah, go check it out and let us know what you think. They're really interesting videos, I think, and then please do. I would just be so overjoyed if you would enjoy. I am so grateful that you all come and listen to the show and enjoy the fruits of our efforts that way. So go watch this YouTube video. It's called the
Beginning UFO Encounters over Washington, DC. And I call it the beginning because it's the beginning of the Air Force investigation, and it's the beginning of our investigation into who's investigating what and sharing with people more than they know about the official record of the UFO investigations that have gone on. So check that out. It's on our YouTube and it's on our front page at Open Minds dot TV also the UFO Congress. So I listed a bunch more speakers at the
UFO Congress. In fact, let's see if I could go over there real quick and tell you so. I haven't even listed Erling Strand from Norway yet, so that's brand new information exclusive for you all. But oh, this is cool, This is really cool, Martin. So I've got John Alexander speaking, and some people are like, oh, he spoke before. He's a debunker, he's a government stooge man, but he's at he was with Army intelligence, and he's talking about the com UFO encounters more complex than we
can imagine. And he sounds like a new age woo woo guy when you read his talk. He talks about this. His presentation includes my first hand experience with a case so convoluted it defies both explanation and common sense. Nonetheless, it is real and includes not only my observation of a UFO, but spontaneous healing, plus sightings, recordings of orbs, possible spiritual beings, and other phenomena. He's a disinformation agent. Isn't that crazy? That is really
something? Wow? Yeah, So John Alexander, who people think is you know, he's he's into UFOs. Obviously he wouldn't be out talking about this stuff. So he's hard edged. Yeah, he's hard edged, and he's a colonel. If people know colonels, colonels are like that, they're black and white. This is this, and this is that, you know. But he's gonna be talking about this wild case that he's never talked about before that included some very respectable people. So oh, he's going to be talking
about this amazing UFO encounter. I'm really excited about it. David Marler is going to be speaking. He's going to be speaking. We don't have it yet, so this is exclusive for you all too. Brand new information about the nineteen forty two case over La so the Battle of La Battle of La. Yes, he's got new photographs and information of that. So another really fascinating camp case. Richard Dolan has put together a new talk just for the
UFO Congress. How cool is that? Wow? So he'll be speaking Noe Torres, will be speaking about the real cowboys and aliens UFOs in the Old West. So this is afropocus. We're in Phoenix. So he talks about these cases like from the eighteen hundreds, UFO cases with Cowboys C and UFOs. And then you all are familiar with Paul stone Hill, so he'll be at the conference talking about Russia and Eurasian stuff like that. We have a few more to list. We have some surprises, of course as usual.
But yeah, so now we have most of our speakers listed for the Congress, a lot of them, So go check that out at Ufocongress dot com. And of course, if you're planning to come, be sure to reserve a room asap because any moment now the rooms will probably be sold out. You'll be able to get on a waiting list. But you know, and the other hotels really are nearby. They're very easy to get to. The shuttle shuttle you back and forth. But it's fun to stay in the host
hotels. So oh, chet that out. Wonderful place. Do you have a room? Very very relaxing. Oh yeah, you bet, I do good. So UFO Congress dot com. So really exciting stuff, and of course we're gonna have a lot of other great people. I'm very excited about it. In fact, two of our speakers, Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Martin, just put out a new book and will be available. It's called Fact
Fiction and Flying Saucers. So they've got a brand new book out and that will be available actually on Amazon, I think maybe even today, but they'll be at the conference to sign and sell those books as well. So lots of exciting stuff. Martin right, yes, and I can't wait. Yeah, it's gonna be cool. And of course you're going to be able to meet the one and only Martin Willis at the conference. Also, don't forget to check out the Open Minds Video portal, which you can find at open
Minds TV, where we have the lectures from the past conferences. We have all from twenty sixteen, but we don't have all of them up, but we're posting more on a regular basis and it's just a few dollars to have access to all of these super cool video lectures, so really cool stuff.
I want to say thank you to. Well, speaking of the Hanks, Micah Hanks, we have a story from Micah Hanks that he wrote for the Paranormal Podcast, actually for Jim Harold, and Jim Harold was nice enough to let me post part of that story on our website about satellites and mysterious satellites mysterious stuff in space. So Micah Hank's really cool guy. He does a great Allian Report, great writer. Love Micah. He's going to be at our conference too, He's going to have a table. I forgot about that,
so that's cool. But the reason I thought of Micah you all probably know because I end with this. Every show is at his brother, Caleb. They're both musicians, extremely talented musicians. And I want to thank Caleb Hanks for our great open and close music. Often people ask where can I find his music? If you go to the Open Minds radio page, you will see a link to his site where he lets you download a lot of his original music for free. And I love it. I think it's really
really good. I think it's great to get in while before. These guys are super famous, so we get to know them. So thank you to Caleb Hanks. And finally, thank you to you. Not you Martin, I know the listener. Yeah, I already thanked you. I didn't I did I forget to thank you? No, I remember you thanked me. Oh good, A couple of episodes back couple. Well, thank you Martin, and yes, thank you to the listeners. Thank you so much. Thank you to those of you who said hi at the move On Symposium.
Thank you to all of those that I met on the beach that said hi there just kidding, but you know, although that makes me think, and I don't know if I should say this. We'll see if I'll get some bad feedback. But I'm just thinking of the beach and maybe we need to
make some open mind swimwear. Of course, first week came to mind, honestly, I got to be honest, was open mind bikinis, but also swim trunks would be cool too, so and you know, one pieces for women if if they like that, But that would be really cool, some open minded beach where huh I can see that now, I'm sure you can. Yeah. I'm not even gonna say anything. I'll get myself, I know, no, just like vague shells are out. So but thank you all so much for listening. Say it with me? Do you know what?
You know what my last words are, right Martin? Not yet audios, jos audios. So let's say it with me. Three two one audio smooth jot motion