Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am joined with Martin. I can do, Willis, I can do, I can do, I can do, I can do anything. I don't even think that's the right words for that song, but the yeah, you can do it. And because you get out there and you're a doer. You know what we were complaining about some people on social medium and so much of the big complainers, that's what they do. That's it. You know, they're not out there really doing, and I
think that's important. They're plaining complaining. Yeah, but that's not to anybody can do that. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty easy. Yeah, it's really easy. It's harder to, like, you know, tackle all the stuff that you do. I was talking about you, oh with Race. I saw Race this weekend. But actually before I'm going to get into that, but first I want to tell you who my guest is today. Great. Oh, you're going to be shocked and amazed, really great because it's
you. This show is just going to be Martin and I talking about news and some of the latest things that happened going on. So sit back and relax and we're just going to have a good time here. Now, I do want to say I have some exciting interviews coming up. I have Nick Pope for next week. Of course, he's got some the government documents that he has discovered. I saw him this weekend and we talked something about that, and he's got a lot of really important news to talk about this.
He's going to be on some other show, and he promised this show, which is it's a really big show, so I don't blame him, but I'm not going to say the name because I don't want you to listen, because I want to hear all this stuff first on my show. But you might already know if you follow Nick Pope. But Nick Pope used to work for the UK investigating UFOs and he recently got some information from the DoD about the Pentagon project that was revealed by the New York Times. So we're going
to talk about that. And there's a lot of really great points and nuances in these documents that Nick has pointed out that are really important. So we're going to talk about that, and then speaking of the A TIP program sometime in the next couple of weeks, hopefully the week after that, I'll be interviewing mister lou Elizondo. So it's about time. Yeah, I know. And I haven't harassed him on it. He's always said, oh, we got to do an interview, We got to do that, we got to
do that. So he actually gave me a call because I hadn't heard it from him for a while and we just were catching up and I said, hey, would now be a good time. He said, definitely, this is a great time. So we worked we're working on scheduling that and I asked some people in the open minds UFO news group what kind of questions you would like me to ask, and of course I invite all of you listeners
to do so as well. You can email contacted openminds dot tv or just email yeah that will work, or you can email me at allehandro t Rojas at gmail dot com and let me know what your questions are and I'll get those in front of him. Now. A lot of people, fortunately, and this is kind of funny, don't they ask They're asking questions that don't pertain to what he does, and so I know the answer is going to be I don't know about that, or I have nothing to do with that,
and it's interesting to me that people do that. Of course, any speaker knows. Often when you do a whole talk on a topic that's really interesting and then you open the floor for questions, often people start asking you about stuff that has nothing to do with what you just reviewed, or sometimes nothing to do with, you know, anything you know anything about. And I don't know if people just do that. Yeah. Now, when I met him last summer, I was all said, I had arrange to have
this dinner where you could ask him questions, you know. It was sort of like a one on one type thing, and he got whisked away there was some type of family situation. Now I never got to do it. I was really looking forward to that and I had a question to ask him. So I am going to try to dig that up. I can't remember what it was. The only thing he'll remember about the conversation he and I had in the hallway. There was talking about collectibles and when he collects and
stuff like that. He's pretty fascinating. Yeah, he's cool. He's a regular dude, you know, And that's what I'm excited to do. So we're going to have him at the Congress. And but I'll say this, you know, in interviews, I feel that's when he reveals the most interesting information. So I think we'll have a lot of interesting information and my interview coming up here. But by the time the UFO Congress comes around in early
September, we'll have him again. But I'm going to do a Q and A with him, and I know some of my colleagues will probably be jealous about that, but well, of course have open mic, but that I want to do my correct and I think, you know, I want to
do my best to really grill him. Uh. You know, we're familiar with each other, but in a way that's comfortable to him to see how much we can get out of him, you know, because that's what people want, is some of the most some information that he is new that he hasn't shared before, and information there's a lot he can't share. But if you ask the right questions, there are aspects of those those topics that he can answer. But if you ask him to do a talk, he's not
going to go there. Some people have said, oh, you know, he did a lecture and it was kind of boring like that, or because he's just like promoting to the stars, But that's that's what he does. So if you really want pointed answers to certain questions, you've got to go there and then kind of massage it and work around the topic to get everything you can. So yeah, so that's going to be a lot of fun
looking forward to it. Yeah, if only we could know what he really knows, you know, Yeah, I mean I think what he really knows is I think you can kind of know. We certainly won't know everything he really knows, but the most revealing piece of information, now, what we're going to review with Nick Pope is interesting and it has generated some headlines. And I do implore people if you're not I've got my live show that I do on YouTube and it's on my Alohandro Advantage YouTube channel, and I hope
you watch that at some time. Of course, if you don't watch it live, you can catch it afterwards. But I review in detail, you know, all of the news of the week. And so this information that Nick Pope shared in this document he received. There was another organization, the Federation of American Scientists, who received these documents, and these were kind of
papers products that came out of this a tip study that lou Ran. So we have an insight into kind of more of the science that they're looking into. But what they're looking into is very telling, and that's what we're going to talk with Nick. But there's the whole aspect of the UFO end. The only product and it wasn't included in this list, but that we have been able to see on that end is that leaked NIMIT document that of course
I talked with Dave Batty about. I know you've had some recent quite a few recent interviews on the whole limit situation as well, where I'm sure you all have reference to that document that's the only by the military for the military report from that a tip that we've seen, so I think, and it is terribly interesting if you've heard our past interviews. But I think that what Lou knows is there's just a lot more of those reports. And that's essentially
what he told me is there's a lot more of that. There's other cases, he said, is that are just as good, if not better. But that's kind of the idea. So it's almost like this Project Blue Book show, you know, where they're covering a great case every week. It's like we've seen one episode of the a tip show, you know, which is NIMT. So there's other episodes. Who knows how many or even if there's a full season's worth using that metaphor, but there's just a lot of
other great episodes and that would be interesting. But like Blue Book, you know, it's not necessarily that they retrieved a crash shaucer or something, but observed and recorded some incredible cases an incident, you know what I mean, And you just wonder, you wonder how many are there, and you know, I think there's still something going on as far as them, you know, doing the research, So you just wonder how, you know, how
many of these cases they're paying attention to. Now, you know, nothing really comes to mind as far as like big sightings, except for when it involves the airlines. There has been a couple, you know, within the last few months. But just wondering how much they were still doing the research
and if there's anything you know they're researching deeply into. Yeah, I know, And you know, this organization has essentially no resources, so they're more of a data retrieval kind of and perhaps an an analyst sort of group than anything, which is what intelligence is about. I mean, if you watch
that show like Jack Ryan or something, and you hear analysts. The CIA has a bunch of analysts, because what all these people are doing is usually looking at sets of information that they're getting from the field, and they're using that information to understand what's going on about a particular thing, like what lou worked on was terrorism, kind of like Jack Ryan, you know that television show where and I read all those Tom Clancy books, so you know,
he talks about the analysts, how they're grabbing the data and they're trying to figure something out, and then sometimes they're able to discover, hey, it looks like, you know, this group is doing X, Y and z that indicates maybe they're building a bomb, you know, and so we got to check into this, and it's the same sort of thing they're gathering, and we see this in that report because that report didn't do any real investigation. What it did, though, was gather testimony, which is good.
It's an investigation from witnesses, and then also given that testimony, questioned people like the submarine that were part of the carrier strike group to see if there was any correlation there or anything that could corroborate what the others had seen or give them more information about whatever phenomena they were dealing with. But that's essentially what they're doing. But it's it's because it's of that nature. You know. All it can be is kind of analysis as opposed to, you know,
being able to do some hands on research. The other thing that I think is important is that, you know, we have this Adam project where to the Stars now is trying to examine the material these meta materials or materials that have been allegedly retrieved from UFO incidents to determine whether or not these materials
are anomalous or not. I think that's telling in that since Lou is doing this work, there's been and in his interviews, there's been no indication that there has been any material besides someone mentioned retrieved, and what we know about out at least this material that was retrieved that there's analysis still ongoing. So it kind of lends to the idea that no anomalist material has yet been you
know, fully analyzed or probably discovered by the A TIP group. I think that that's what it seems, and we can ask Lou, you know, more specifically, and I think we have essentially, but that still lends to Most of what they've done is kind of analysis, but those files have to be fascinating. Oh, I'm sure is an amazing case. So if they
have cases better than that, holy cow. Right, Well, forgive me if I'm getting this mixed up or wrong or we've already talked about in the past, but does this have to do with what is supposed to be housed at Bigelow? That is, Yeah, that's one of the items. That's one of the pieces of material. But they have others as well, some that have been brought to them by other UFO witnesses outside of a tip,
and I think some that other UFO researchers have obtained as well. So yeah, and I think they're preparing to at least give the public some more information. There is rumors about television shows and stuff, so there might be a show that kind of talks a little bit about what they're looking into coming up here, so we'll see. One of the things that people often say to me, and I'm sure you probably hear it too, is you know, whatever it is got all the way here, how why would it? Why
on earth would it crash? You know? Is that you know? I agree personally, I personally. And I've said this many times, and I'm sure you know some people don't like it, but oh well, I'm honest, I don't see it. I don't see is happening. In fact,
let's say Roswell was a truly crashed extraterrestrial spacecraft and advanced technology. I think if that had crashed and there was some sort of you know, and they didn't want to interact with us at all, then I think they would very easily be able to retrieve it. I mean, since it had crashed, it could probably even just fly in a saucer, pick up everything, even if there are some Army guys standing there, you know, with their jaws
on the ground watching this happen and then fly off, and nobody's the Army first of all, probably isn't going to say anything. Even if those guys who saw this did say something, nobody's gonna believe them and it would be problem solved. So if I think there's a strong using that kind of perspective, I think there's a strong personally argument to be made that if there was truly a crash and we retrieve that material and we're allowed to keep it,
then we were given it wasn't a crash. It was here's some technology. Here you go for whatever reason, you know, we feel you're ready to
move to the next level of tech or whatever. And I mean if Colonel Corso, who was in the army, who claims he received some of that material is telling the truth, then a lot of the technology that we use to this day and have advanced us to where we are technologically is due to the back engineering or in corporation of some of that technology that they got from Roswell and so you know, it has had a major effect on our growth
and evolution. So maybe they are helping push us along, or maybe it hasn't happened at all, and there hasn't ever been a crash, So I don't know, what do you think? Well, one of the theories, of course, is that it's you know, a drone or drone piloted or self replicating drone or something like that, you know, for the when it comes to them trying to deal with the space time, the space you know,
travel and all that speed of light. So I don't know, you know, there's all I think we're thinking about the whole thing in a human way, and who knows what the rill answer is, yeah, yeah, those are all good points, I mean, and there's been lots of speculation that you know, and it would make sense, and a lot of scientists
are even more ready to adopt this idea. In fact, Sas Shostak has even talked about it, and so has that Columbo guy or Columbus you know who wrote this paper for the City Institute convention that you know, we keep thinking that any beings out there wouldn't be able to survive this trip, but you know, a robot essentially could, So who's to say there aren't drones? And people seem to be more open to that idea, so that's a
possibility as well. Of course, if there's a ton of them, you think there might be several crashes or something like that if that does happen, But who knows hum right now, do you think that lou would be privy to anything that To the Stars is working on, or they compartmentalized as far as you know, the materials and things like that, or do you think that they kind of share the information that they're not letting out to the public
with you know, between the people involved. I'm pretty sure they share it with each other. It seems that way. It doesn't sound like they'repartmentalizing from each other. I don't completely know how the structure works, but there's pretty small group, so I think they're all working together pretty closely because they are
a small group. So now I know you and you and I have talked about this before, or mostly you about their becoming if they're going to become more transparent when it comes to something like this, What do you think would happen if they actually you know, study the material and ended up being something they couldn't you know, they just couldn't identify as something that was you know, human made or made on Earth. Well, I think that a lot of people would say, you got to tell people right now, but I
don't think that's the wisest way to do it, And I know people get frustrated by that, but it's just it's best to have all your ducks in
a row before coming out. So, for instance, you know, it would be wise for them to have, like scientists do, develop a complete paper for peer review that makes your argument as strong as possible so that you can get it out there and then you know, then you you have your your strongest argument coming out first and that takes a lot of time to develop, especially if you for instance, it's often that you need to do many pieces of analysis. One analysis you do shows that this nature, this you
know is anomalous. That justifies then you're doing more research, and if you continue to get these anomalous you know results, then then you're pushed to do more and more and more, which all bolsters your case that something is odd about what it is you're you're looking at. So the better the case, So longer it's going to take to investigate and analyze, and so it's going to take a longer time to develop that paper or argument that it is something
demonstrating what analysis you did and why you think it's anomalous. So it's just going to take a lot of time. So I think I think that that's the thing is that if they did have something, they wouldn't share it. I think it would be wise for them not to share it, beyond maybe saying something like we do have some promising leads and we're working on those, and we're working towards sharing more information on the with the public on this as
soon as possible. That's I understand. I understand what you're saying about, you know, doing it the right way. I'm just wondering, even if it's done the right way, how much of a blip is this? You know, would something like that make Would people consider it serious enough? Do you think or do you think they would just say, well, that's just saying that they don't. That's just saying they have no idea how it's made, and that's it. It's not gonna you know, I think it will
be a serious blip. Here's why I think that who is saying it matters a lot. So for instance, if you or I no offense to you, but it's the same for me if I was to say, oh, Mind's TV has done this analysis and here's what we found, and I think we have we have a pretty good reputation with the mainstream. So but even
then, you know, it's not as big of a deal. But when you have you know, somebody connected to the Melon family or the Melon you know dynasty, you have these ex intelligence people, you have somebody who ran a department for the DoD investigating this stuff. When a group like that comes out and says we have scientific evidence that this this anomalous material is created by an intelligent an intelligence that is off planet. I think that's a big deal.
Just like if any other scientific organization, like if SETTI was to say we think we found something. I think that is a big deal, and so will get a lot of attention. It'll get a lot of scrutiny, which is good. That's what you want. You want to encourage, you know, this scientific organization set the others to challenge your assumptions because that means they're taking it seriously, and then you go from there. So I think
from this group it will be a big deal. Now do you think this is probably a question you may not even want to answer, but do you think that Tom deloms and Delong's involvement with this would take away from it? No? I don't think so at all. And I think that's what a lot of people in the UFO field are kind of missing, is that you know, and we have plenty of evidence of this, that it won't have an effect because Tom got those doors opened in the first place, why and
what is his role? And I think that's what people need to think about. In the professional world. You know, we all have titles, and the reason you have those titles, it's because that's what your expertise is that's what you bring to the table. Tom DeLong is a rock star, so essentially what he brings to the table is a perspective from the youth and a media perspective, not a scientist or an expert or anything like that. He
brings that media connection and I think that's what his importance is. But we do have to go to break, but I want to elaborate more on this because I think this is an excellent question. At the UFO field is just getting wrong, and I'm going to justify my answer when we come back from the break. You're listening to Open minds UFO Radio. We're here with Martin Willis. Yo, Martin Yo. We'll be right back from this break. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. I'm your host Leandro Rojas, and
we have with us Martin Willis of podcast UFO. I forgot what OH can do? Yeah, I was telling you, mush brain, Martin, mush brain. Willis. That's right. You almost brained. Oh I'm hanging in by a thread. But yeah, getting back to the Tom DeLong thing, is, uh, you know, we were all doubtful when he said that
he was talking to insiders in the government and uh in the military. But it turned out he it really was going on, and if you read some of that stuff, it seems like this sense that they like the idea, and he had talked about this of him being an hour let to the youth to try to get an interest in science peaked by people out there. So you know, that's Tom's rule. Tom is seen by the mainstream. And
here's my argument as to you know why. The evidence that that I'm right about this is, first of all, he was taken seriously by the military and others in moving all this along. Second of all is in the media reaction. The media reaction has been, you know, to make fun of him and to tease especially some of the things he said, but it hasn't had a negative effect on the group as a whole or lou Elizondo personally.
They're all being taken very, very seriously because they have titles and positions that warrant that you know, someone who is a defense intelligence expert and advisor such as Melon or you know Elizon, who's an intelligence for the Pentagon. They're the ones who you're going to get the technical information from, not Tom.
Tom is going to be like the marketing guy in any company, who you know is kind of full of it, and it's just you know, they're to say, hey, raw, raw, and this is cool, and this is great, and to keep the energy going and to keep communication and
connections with people going. But that's not the expert. In fact, when a salesperson or a marketing person tells you x, y, and z about the tech, you know, anybody savvy in a corporation is gonna say yeah, right, and then actually go to the tech people to confirm whether and that that's true, because typically they're going to be told well, you know, out of all those points, most of those are inaccurate. But here's the real beef behind what it is. So so yeah, I don't think
it doesn't appear as though that has been damaging up until this point. If there are some major campaigns to credit the groups in the future, which could happen, you know, they may use that tom against them. But yeah, so far we haven't seen it. I don't think. Yeah, the Joe Rogan podcast is the one. I'm sure you. I mean, I've got so many emails about that and it just didn't go well. It was not a good idea. No, not at all. And we see that Tom kind of feels that too, and that he has not been out in
the media at all since that occurred. So it's been like a year and a half since we've heard from him. Yeah, I think that was sometime. I think it was actually in two thoy seventeen when he was actually on the Joe Rogan Show. I don't remember exactly what. Yeah, it was like mid to late twenty seventeen, which of course it was October twenty seventeen when they announced to the Stars, and I believe it was just before that. Oh, it was just before that. Wow. Wow. Yeah,
So that's good, you know what I mean. I was you know, there are like you said, the team for the most part is pretty amazing, and that's really has you know, it has a lot of people talking about you know, their backgrounds and wow, you know this is being taken serious by these people. So it is good. And the UFO field, you know, I it's unfortunate because I think there's a level of professionalism and
who was I talking to this with. I don't remember who, But there is this disconnect I think where they are not many of them are not seeing things from the perspective of like the mainstream, which is damaging because if you know, we wanted to be taken seriously, then you have to understand that, and you know they I think that just there's a lot of people who are discounting the credibility, the very high level of credibility of this to the
Stars organization and the individuals involved. It's so high that at even comments from the do d's PR department do not hold water as compared to Harry Reid or lou Elizondo or others in the organization. And we've seen that the media doesn't even reference the d D PR Department, and they don't need to because there's ample evidence of everything that they have said. And these documents that we're going to talk to Nick Pope about are even further, you know, confirming that
exactly what they said is true. And they also confirm similar leaked documents that George Knapp from KLAS in Las Vegas had been able to share months ago. Now, do you actually feel comfortable teasing a little bit Nick Pope's for you depends on what No. No, I just want to I want to hear I mean it seems to me, I mean, I looked into it a little bit. It was actually going to be something I was going to talk about, like a news you know story. But anyway, it's it sure
seems to me on the outside. So far without I haven't been able to actually read the documents. I know there there's a copy online, but it's very tiny and hard to read. Sounds like the technology was taken serious and uh, and it sounds like it's kind of geared to extra terrestrial exactly. Yeah, And that's the point is that that's a big point. And I guess because you made that observation is that you know, they're not talking about
it's the program is Advanced Aerospace and Threat Identification Program. But uh, and they're not talking about foreign technologies. They're talking about space propulsion technologies. So it goes to wonder, if you're looking at those documents and you're thinking, Okay, what is the foreign technology they're looking at, it points to that this foreign technology is not Russian or Chinese or you know, there's no reference to that. What there is reference to a space that this technology is space
related, so exactly what you're talking about. So that's another really important part of those papers. There's even reference to the Drake equation exactly. That kind of points it out right there exactly. And you know, that's what Nick Pope brought up to Tucker Carlson on Fox News. That exact point is that if they're referring to the Great equation, that right there tells you the foreign parties that they're looking towards. Mm hmm. So exciting. So I can't
wait to have I can't wait to hear that interview. Should be great, be a lot of fun. Now, hey, I want to hear from you if you don't mind sharing about some of your recent interviews, because you've had some really cool people on to talk, particularly about the Nimtz case. Right, So yes, yeah, could you share maybe I think it's the last two shows you've had focused on that. Well. I have this show coming up tomorrow with Robert Powell talking about any of the updates that he can
share on the research on that, so that'll come up. But anyway, the last show I had, I had a former guest of yours on as well, Tyler Rogoway and Rights for the war Zone. And I also had Vincent I Yellow and he is a former fighter pilot. He's also a top gun trainer and he now is a commercial airline pilot and he really I asked him if he's gonna have any trouble talking about UFOs, you know, with his career in any type of way, and he said, I don't know.
You know, he wasn't worried about it at all and had some great conversations with him. And he actually has a fighter Pilot podcast where he interviewed David Fraverer directly about the Nimitz case and it was basically pilot to pilot talking. So it's a really great interview. I think you said you had that posted somewhere right, Oh, yeah, yeah, I had that posted on the front page because yeah, I mean, how I think that's really important. And so as a fellow, you know, a pilot, and how
did he feel about Fraver's testimony one hundred percent credible? He said that I like what he said. He said, you know before he actually sat and talked face to face with with Fravor, who was a friend, you know, a former friend, and they were he was actually on uh Vincent was actually on the USS Nimics during the encounter, remember you know, so, but but there were you know, he didn't he would see him in passing. There wasn't any direct contact at that point, but he does discuss you
know, what happened. There was a you know, people teasing him. There was a lot of ridicule at that time, you know, because of the because of that. But he said that he but prior to actually talking directly to David, that he thought, you know, UFO people were just wackos. He said, I hope I don't offend anyone, and he says, but I do. He says, but now I know that there's really
something to this, and I think it's very interesting. He further went on to say, you know, I asked him if he was going to, you know, look into the topic more, and he said, it's kind of like you know, golfing. It's something I might think is interesting. But he says, I'm not really you know, and unless it circles back around again, he says, I'm not going to be exploring the topic.
And I said, no, I'm not talking about on your show. I mean personally, do you think that you might have more of an interest now that you think they're you know, you think that David Favor is credible And he said, well, yeah, yeah, not to be honest, you know, not not really, you know, so I think it's I think that's kind of fascinating that he might. I mean to me, I think, you know, I can only I can only go by what I feel, And you know, I just think it's such an important topic and could
mean so many changes in the world. Just that one thing. If there's actually intelligent life out there and we know it for sure and it's actually visiting us, I mean, if that's really what it is, I think that's major, and you know, I'm surprised at that. Yeah, And I agree with you. On the other hand, I can kind of see it because in a way, I mean, in a way I even feel and
maybe you do too. I know, Mikah Hanks talks about this, and I agree with him, you know, feeling agnostic about this whole field in that it's really interesting to look into and look into discoveries and advancements, but we may not, if not, probably won't really make much headway in our
lifetimes. And you know, if you're a real student of this field, and you look at even people like doctor j Allen Heinek, he passed away without really knowing a whole lot more, and so have many many researchers coming gone, some spending the majority of their lives looking into this without much a whole lot of knowledge necessarily, you know, like real understanding being gained.
So however, it's still really interesting and he may feel that way. It's just kind of like how we feel about you know, he probably feels, let's say, and no doubt Tyler Roguaway does about certain technologies that they're really important, you know, certain jet propulsion or other technologies that are cutting edge, but we don't pay attention to it, even though it may affect our lives in that it makes air travel ten times quicker and maybe ten times safer
for us in the next few years. But we're like, yeah, that's interesting, but we don't look into the details, even though it's something that will affect our lives. So I could see how, you know, we just all have our interests in things that we're looking into. But it is funny. Some people in this field get really frustrated that others aren't, like,
you know, freaking out and talking about this every day. But I can see why they wouldn't, you know, it's not really going to affect his life except for when he hears fellow pilots talking about UFO sightings, he may at least not make fun of them or take them more seriously. Yeah, there's something I'm gonna mention that Tyler was talking about. But another thing, though, I do, I do have to say a commenting on what you just said there a minute ago, and that is you don't think or
you feel as though that you probably won't know in your lifetime. I've always I have said that many times on my show and felt that way also, But I don't know. Lately, I just seem to be having a feeling that we're going to know more, and we're going to know more fairly soon. Now. Maybe people have said that for the last seventy years and like you said, passed away without knowing anything extra. But I just have that feeling. It just feels like things are like the bananas being peeled back a
little and more is being revealed now. No, well, I think we all have that feeling, and that's where things like twenty twelve happen. You know, we all feel something BIG's going to happen. So when people say twenty twelve is a year something BIG's going to happen, that feels right, that's got to happen, and then nothing does. However, there is a
little bit there is something to your argument in that. And this is another thing that I feel, you know, with a lot of the UFO community, not all of it, but a lot, there's this you know, what's going on right now has literally never happened in the UFO field. This amount of credible information and witnesses coming forward about a secret program or these military encounters. This just does not happened like this in the past. The closest
thing would be blue Book, Project blue Book. But Project blue Book, as we know from Edward Rupelt's book, who ran Blue Book in nineteen fifty two, began the nineteen fifty two Final Bubrig Project. A lot of the Air Force's stance was anti UFO to really kind of, you know, get the public to quit being so fascinated with the topic. Whereas that wasn't lose intention. In fact, there's what's the opposite was to actually look into the
mystery of the whole topic. So it's a huge difference. And you know, I think that like, for instance, it's fun because George Knapp is like a little kid in a candy story. He is so excited about this moment in life because he's worked so hard, you know, towards looking at this topic, and he's been a part of some major investigations that have been revelatory. But a lot of this information he felt would never get out and he didn't feel like, you know, we would have this level. And
he really feels extremely excited and happy to be alive. As the way he put it that during this time where so much information is coming forward, and I think that that's a I think that that's a justified perspective, and I think it, you know, is an argument to justify your feelings too that you know, more is happening right now, and more may continue, probably will continue, and so you know, it could the information could ramp up
exponentially. Yeah. So I was saying just a minute earlier that I was going to talk about something. Tyler Rogaway said a couple of things. First of all, as I think he mentioned on your show, you know, throw out what is not you know, what can be explained that should be. He was calling himself a debunker, and I said, no, you're not. I think of a debunkers someone that takes a hoax and disproves it.
I said, you're you're just explaining what people are thinking as a UFO, and he, you know, he's very You think that's very important, and I do too, you know, and I like what he said. He said, there's so much that can't be explained, you don't need to, you know, hang on. The stuff that can be explained exactly just takes up space. And I thought that was really good. That is really
good, and it's a great point. And I mean, I know Mark d' antonio, you know, the photo and video analysts rem move on, gets really frustrated when I talk about him debunking stuff, but he does, and I love it, and it's great because, uh, for that point right there, we need to get rid of the stuff that could be explained, focus on the truly anomalous, because that's you know, our efforts well spent, as opposed to wasting our time with stuff. And that's why it's
exciting. I don't know, I think you feel this way too. I get excited when something gets explained, even if it's mundane. Yeah, because then we don't have to spend our time with that. We can focus on that better stuff. Move on, move on to the real stuff if you can. Yeah. On the second part of what he's said, I think is very interesting, and he was getting into the new technologies, you know,
black project things that we don't know about. He said that he has you know, from what heat he researches, that we're going to be seeing things in the sky that are military that we're not going to be able to explain. He said, you know, there's going to be a lot more of what people are considering UFOs that you know, maybe just you know,
new technologies. And he said, you know again that the Air Force, as they have done in the past, may actually not mind if we call the UFO you know, yeah, divert the attention of you know, of what it really is. Yeah. I mean, some people argue that that case you can see this at the Scientific Coalition for Uphology, the s CU website, seu dash online, that there's this case you know, or over part of we go actually at Open Minds, we've got to kind of break
the investigation of this case. And a lot of people argue that what is seen in this video that you know, Mark for instance, he hasn't put together his full argument, but he feels that he it is something mundane. Others, especially the investigators, do not, and and a lot of very credible people don't agree with him. But some argue that what that is is could be just that technology that is being tested out there. And I think
that's a great point. I mean, drones have shown that with They've got sparkly lights on him, and people mist make mistake them for UFOs all the time. But you know, even with drone technology the military could be developing, Like my drone is a spark, a DJA spark, super tiny,
but the lights are really bright. It can zoom around super fast. So like if the military souped up one of these things and let it autonomously, you know, fly a couple hundred miles across the country on its own, or even put it in a mode where it can go to an area, examine and photographed the entire area that is maybe a few one hundred or thousand miles away and then come back, or while it's transmitting the data that it's you know, at the same time, it would look so tiny that you
wouldn't recognize it as a as a military technology or something like that. So I think what he says makes a lot of sense now just for the listener out there. The Puerto Rico. I know you've interviewed a couple of people on that Puerto Rico. UFO was in Aguadilla. Yeah, that was like in twenty seventeen, also, wasn't it. And now that I was earlier, what two thousand when it occurred with something like two thousand and nine when
the paper came out was around twenty sixteen or seventeen. And you know who is one of the top end investigators of that was Robert Powell, who you're having on your show, right And Larry Kate's Larry Kates was one of those. Rich Hoffman, Morgan Biale and Rich oh Man and Carl Paulson. I think those were the leads. One or two other people I might be forgetting and I apologize, but yeah, Well, the weird thing about that it is a skim through the water, never lost speed. I don't think there's
anything. Yeah, I can't imagine technology that would do that. Now, I I think it's hot. That's the part that is a little bit more difficult to prove whether or not that happened. If that did happen, that would be very significant. They feel they can prove that pretty strongly, and maybe they can. But even the aerodynamics or at least the flight path that I think that you know, they have demonstrated, and the other aspects,
the physical aspects of the object are very unique, very strange. And that was a gun camera too, right, there's gun camera. And this is an important point, and that doesn't fit actually Mark's theory. Mark theory is that it's a balloon. So and it is important, I think to review this theory because Mark makes a very excellent point on the nature of photography and
videography when it comes to moving cameras. So you see this object traveling over from the ocean over the land, it loops around and then travels back out to the ocean. Well, Mark points out that this aircraft is essentially doing a half circle around the object. So when you see the background moving quickly, that doesn't necessarily mean the objects moving quickly. He feels the object is actually moving very slowly. It's a balloon, and then it gives the appearance
of moving quickly because the background is moving. And he's got a good point because that is a phenomenon I believe it's called parallax, and that does give the wrong impression and that happens often. But right after this break, I'll make the argument as to why he I feel that and many others feel he's off on and he's still working on proving his perspective. But we've got to
take another break. We'll be right back after this short musical interlude. Or for those of you listening on other outlets such as KGRA, you'll hear some commercials. Be right back. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we have with us mister Martin Podcast UFO. Willis can do can what a can do attitude. So here's where I think we just talked about the parallax where a slow moving object can be looking
fast on a video. However, there is I think that the group argues, and I think very I think they have a strong argument, is that it appears this object is moving behind a poll, and so that that's a big deal. That would demonstrate that it is moving. And you know, when you do all the line alignments and everything, I mean, it really
does look like it is moving. And what Mark is also doing is discounting the witness testimony, which as a video analyst or a photo analyst, you don't take into account to witness testimony, So that's good for him to do. Here's why, at least in one phase of your analysis, you don't want to take into witness testimony. It's because if the data, if you just give this photo or video to an analyst like Mark, don't even tell them about the rest of the case, and let them see what they determine.
If they come back with an answer that is similar to what the witnesses tell you, then you have a stronger case. Then you have better corroboration or better of the story, because that means the data that is able to be retrieved from the photo or video corroborates what the witness is saying. So that's what's really important. That piece of data, that photo or video has to stand on its own as far as if it's a good piece of evidence
or not. So that's why that's important. But in this case, we have the pilots of the Homeland Security or Customs plane that captured this, so we have some very credible witness data. And the credibility of the witness data is extremely important. Some people say, oh, you can put someone away with witness testimony, but there's a caveat to that. There's a lot that goes into that, and expert testimony counts one hundred million times better than just
a civilian novice testimony and layman testimony. In this case, you can consider these pilots expert testimony. But here's a part of their testimony that really blows marks the balloon theory out as well as that this whole thing starts. It was dark out and they saw a light. They saw an illuminated object out in the ocean moving towards the land, and that's how this whole thing started.
The light then turned out, but they had aimed their cameras over there to capture to see whatever this thing was, and they were able to capture it on their infrared while it was invisible to the naked eye because the light had gone out. And then they tracked this object. So we have witness testimony that it traveled in the manner in which the SEU group estimates it did
travel. So their estimation does corroborate what the witnesses had said. And of course a balloon is not going to have a light on it, and that it can turn on and off, and plus the balloon was out over the ocean and then moved into the land and move back to the ocean. So yeah, I really think these guys are really onto something, and a lot of the military experts that have taken a look at it agree, So I think it's a really good case. But now, did they get any radar
returns on that? No, no radar returns, but there was like at least one aircraft that was delayed because they were told that something was in the area. But we I don't think we know exactly why. Of course, Robert Pal's the expert on this, he would know all the very minute details. But I don't think they gave a reason as to why that was delayed. So they didn't say we had something on radar or anything like that.
I remember speaking Bart me go ahead, Oh, I was going to say that I think Robert was the one who was able to grab at least do the investigation into the radar aspect. I was just saying that. I remember speaking with Bruce ma could be a number of years ago, and he said
that the witness testimony was as important as the image. But I understand the way you put that, and that is that you know, first have them you know, look at the data and then and then you know, I think that is important because that is you know something right in front of you and then go ahead ahead. I was going to say, if if you were a field investigator that worked with Bruce mcabe, you would be surprised.
He said that because it was frustrating. I was a field investigator when Bruce mcaby was the photo analyst before Mark Antonio was, and that's where I learned this from was from Bruce, because I would send him stuff and he'd say, well, it looks like this, this and that, but he would not take into account the witness testimony, and so I would get really frustrated
until I could discuss this with him and understand it better. Because in his at least photo initial photo analysis, and that's different than the entire case as a whole. So for the photo analysis, he would do just what Mark said. He would not take into witness account testimony into account at all. He would look at it and say, and it was a good point because then I knew that even though this person took this picture of a light in the sky at night, that data from that photo did not serve as good
evidence to support what the witness was saying. Even though we get so excited, oh my gosh, we have a photo, it's really not big of a deal. That's why photo analysis. Our photos aren't really a lot of times great evidence or data to bolster a case because it doesn't support or it doesn't prove what the witness is saying. So you're then left just to rely on the witness testimony on its own because the photo doesn't really land any It's
an interesting thing. It's interesting for the media and you know the layman who wants to look into the case, but it's not as interesting as a piece of evidence when you're analyzing whether it's a substantial piece of evidence. So he did the same thing as Mark. But I think what he was telling you is when you take a step back and you're looking at the case as a whole, that's when the witness testimony, you know, plays a big role.
Yeah. I can't remember the exact context, but you're probably right. Yeah, because I used to get utraighted and so before, and that's how I learned it all because I was I was like, you're not taking I do account the whitness testimony, and he's like, well, it just from what the witness says and the evidence are showing in the photo. The photo just does not show anything. It's not conclusively anomalous at all, which is a great point, you know, And that's the limitations of photos and videos.
They got to be really extraordinary too, and we don't really have extraordinary photo or video evidence, really extraordinary. Well there's always CGI, yeah, and then there's CG on top of that, and there's a lot of issue.
So it's a really good point. And I don't think, you know, I mean, the fact that something is not picked up on radar seems to not really matter because there's case after case after case where there was never a radar return on an object that people clearly see, which is you know, I don't think it, you know, it's probably just another capability of whatever it is. But what's exciting are the cases that do have radar, and there are quite a few. So the NIMETS has some radar data that
comes with it. And speaking of Tyler Rogaway, there are a couple great cases that he you know, broke to the media and wrote about that had some anomaloist radar returns as well, especially that Colorado, Utah. I think it was yeah, Oregon, the Oregon case. That was California Oregon case
that had the radar and that that adds a lot. In fact, there was another case in New Mexico he wrote debate about that got more media attention, but all we had there was some pilots talking back and forth about something they saw. Where he really likes this California Oregon case better because it not only has the witness testimony from the pilots and the audio of that, but it also has radar returns of something really strange. So let's say scrambled.
They scrambled a jet after that too. I do believe yep, the jet
got there too late. It was already gone. But you're right, and that Another really crazy part of that case is that you had the FAA people talking about should we have the commercial aircraft follow this object and not land in Oregon, and they decided against that because they didn't know if whatever this object was was hostile, so they didn't want to put civilians in harm's way, so they let the commercial aircraft land or the civilian aircraft land, and that's
why they lost visual of the object. By the time the jets got there that were scrambled, the object was nowhere to be found. Wow. Also, the conversation I had with Tyler recently, it seems to me that the FAA has loosened up as far as you know, being cooperative in information when
it comes to UFOs. At least they are listening to him. May be because you know, he's a journalist and he writes about aviation and maybe he's connected in that way, but they have actually shared a lot of things with him, and as you know, that's not the way it used to be. No, not at all of them, and they wouldn't share anything. They would just refer you to Newfork, which is a website ran by Peter Davenport, one guy you know that collects UFO sidings, or they may refer
you to Bigelow to just report your siding. But that was about it, and which was shocking that they wouldn't want to know or look into it, and they wouldn't share information. But like you said, even Tyler has been shocked at the level of cooperation he's received from them regarding these cases he's looked into, right, even radio I think even radio recordingss you know, pretty amazing it is, and you know what would be interesting to ask Robert Powell
if he has had that same experience. I have not approached the fa for anything in the last few years. I used to when I was a move on field investigator, and I'd get that run around. But I believe Robert Powell has because he's so actively researching these cases that he would probably it'd be interesting to see if from a UFO investigator's perspective, if they've had that same
kind of experience of the FAA being more forthcoming, right. I wonder if they I wonder if they hang on to the material from past, you know, incidents for you know, just thinking back to like two thousand and six, Oh here you know that. I wonder if they mean because they wouldn't share anything about that really m hm. And you wonder if they have that some we're archived. Yeah, I wonder. I know that recently the Robert had shared with me that the way you access radar changed, and I think
he said, you can't foil a FAA data anymore. So you have to foia military radar installations to get radar data. So wow, yeah, Well, one thing I wanted to talk to about. Did you you probably read this that Harry Reid purportedly is pushing for more UFO research. Yeah, he just had this interview where they asked him about his UFO stuff, and which is great. He did not shy away from it. He said, yeah, right, you know, I started this program. I'm happy I did.
And he said, we need to look into this stuff. It's important. And he welcomes you know, fellow politicians and others to you know, advocate and to continue, you know, looking into what he feels as a very important topic. Right, And I'm really glad that he's doing that because you you know, I mean it might he might start the ball rolling. I mean, he was an important He wasn't just a senator, you know, he was I think he was a whip, wasn't he also, Yes,
well he was the majority leader. Yeah, the majority leader. That's that's pretty big. Yeah. So yeah, so he was big, very
influential, and I think that's really important. And of course we're in a period of time and that's what it was my last interview with Nick Pope where we have these congressional subcommittees talking to David Fraverer and other witnesses and people involved with the phenomena and you know, lue Elisondo, it's something we talked about recently, but he also wrote about this that he's like, I shouldn't be the shouldn't be the gospel. According to Lou I'm not a spokesperson. I
ran the project. It wasn't my job to share information and it still isn't so. But what it is his job to do, and what they're trying to do is to get those people with the information to be forthcoming with information and to share information. And that means it's a lot of that aspect. There's a lot of behind the scenes work that we won't see, but we can get little hints at the fruits of those efforts, and we have.
And that's what Nick Pope wrote this Guardian article about that we interviewed him about last which is that, you know, these subcommittees have been discussing and having briefings and talking to people and so things have been moving forward in that aspect. We don't know exactly what to the Stars or Alessander and specifically has done.
He's alluded to a little bit, but they are, like he wrote in that article, you know, greasing the wheels to make all this happen and so it sounds like from what I understand from various interviews is that there was more pushback when he first left than there is now, and so things are moving in a very positive direction that way, which who knows. I mean that leads for an interesting possibility as far as the future goes, is
you know, will we have then and opening of this topic. It's so much so that there is another public facing in investigative group that the government or the military sponsors or creates. And if that's so, you know, how will the public react to that? Certainly the conspiracy minded are not to believe anything they have to say. And honestly, we know in the past there's
been so much spin or or just false information. Unfortunately, I hate to say that, but we just noticed if we've been you know, we've got that video out there. I've got a video about where I go over government secrecy and UFOs, and you know, we haven't been told the truth over the years, so how can we believe they'll tell us the truth in the future. And so it's going to be interesting to see what results of this. But kind of to your point that things seem to be unrolling in the
Banana, you know, Peel keeps being pulled back. It seems as though something's going to happen, right right. I wonder how lou Alazuondo and others over to the Star's Academy really view the UFO community or if they just think they want to get this information to the public and you know a lot of
the UFO community or you know, bashers or fringe or whatever. I wonder what they really think about that, if that ever comes up in an interview, Well, I'll tell you that I think that I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, misrepresent what anybody has said, nor share things they don't really feel they want to be shared. However, I think what you're asking is an important question, and I think that there has been a larger
negative pushback than was expected by all parties. And I think that that has, my guess would be and I think it really has at least a bit, you know, discertained some of them a bit. And I know that is I think it's a similar experience that Bigelow went through when he was, you know, doing more public facing work in this arena, and he shared his experience with George Knapp in interviews before on coast to coast, and that reminds me of a line of information I want to talk about here too.
But you know, Bigelow has a lot of money. He wanted to really spend time and effort researching this field. He funded a lot of the top researchers in their work. And you would think that the community would be very positive about all of that. But that's unfortunately not what happened. All of these haters and and naysayers, and in fact, there's a huge amount of
negativity. And although Bigelow had that experience, I don't know that. Uh. I don't think Lou Lou might not have even noticed that or been aware, But I don't know if he and I don't even know if Tom would have felt that they would have faced the same thing. But they certainly are and so I think that is disheartening for all of them a bit, but they can move past it because they've got a they're very passionate about their their end results. I don't think that, you know, along those lines,
I don't think that we would in the community. You know, possibly, you know, George Knapp may know something before others, but for them, and he's a journalist, of course, but he does, you know, get involved in this topic. But I don't think as a whole we would be privy to any new information any more than anyone else. That's kind of where I'm going with this. Oh yeah, well, I well, although you know, some of us who have relationships are privy, are somewhat we
do get to find out before everyone else. I mean, I got phone calls from you know, I got the call from DeLong before he announced to the stars in October, so I could be ready for it. Even now, I'm being given clues as to the future of what they're working on and maybe able to share with people, some of which I can share and some
I can't, which is not uncommon. I mean often when we're when I'm invited as a journalist for the press too, especially something regarding entertainment, I'm told, you know, I'm given all the information, but told this is embargoed for a month or two or three or four. You know, you can release this on March twenty second. And I keep in close contacts so I know when the embargo is lifted so I can share the information. So
it's a common practice, especially with the media. And so yeah, so in that aspect, at least those of us who are kind of UFO journalists are given some insight kind of like you know, Ryan Sprague, I know, and you and I have been given some Project blue Book you know, material before the rest of the public, so we can help get prepared to release it when it's releasable and get excited about it. So, for instance,
you know you had all the episodes, you still have them. You've seen all the episodes of Project blue Book, even though they haven't all come out. We've only we're only maybe halfway in, but you don't reveal what's in the last three episodes until after they're out. So someone just has to
make me an offer, that's all. But along those lines in the last minute or so that we have here is that what is really blows my mind is in my last story about Project blue Book, my review of the third episode I reference because in that episode, you know, a car was stopped and there was an electro Really kind of these shocks, like electrical shocks and the shocks I haven't heard of, but electrical malfunctions are issues with vehicles and
stopping during UFO sidings have happened. Oh a lot. One of these cases. That's a really good case. Happened just a few years ago and two thousand and nine, I believe it was, and it was a Star Team project. The Star Team is the product is the group that was funded and working with Bigelow. And so this is a group that people said, oh, it was all secret and they were hiding stuff from the public. No, not at all. In fact, I wrote about all of those great
cases that Bigelow funded and they were able to research. It's totally public. There was no hiding of anything. And it's just a great case where this person saw this cigar shaped craft with lights on it. It was above his car, his car stopped. When the Star Team guys got there, were able to fly out there with great equipment thanks to Bigelow, they were able to find out that the car had a very strong, strange electromagnetic field to
it. So it's a really great case. And it was just funny reading that story again and sharing it with everybody, because I haven't looked at that story since this New York Times article came out. And the funny thing is is I didn't know that at that back then, that that funding Bigelow is spending on that project was coming from the Department of Defense. So that is amazing, really crazy. Huh yeah, well, I know we're out of time, but I just wanted to just throw this out that there was someone
in Russia that had a very very similar experience. Cigar shaped UFO made all the car cars stall a mountain pass. It's really a great uh talk directly to the person that is a very similar situation. Mm hm wow, yeah, it happens. Weird stuff man. Right, all right, Well that's it for the show. So thank you so much Martin for joining us and uh, you know, spending the time to talk about some of the news out there. Got some great shows coming up. Of course, you can
check out Martin on podcast, UFO dot com. Thank you, dot com dot com, thank you, we just dot com both, thank you, thank you, Alah mind pleasure, thank you. So just a couple of things that I want to remind people, Please do go to the Alejandro Advantage or if you're on my social media, just check that out and go check out some of my live shows from Thursday evening. Martin's there often, Chase
Kletsky was there this last time actually, uh and some other people. So yeah, so they are a lot of fun, and I go over a lot of news and then give you some insight and background and then go into some of these other stories like I was talking about earlier and hopefully you've seen on Also, you can find these on my social media. You can also find these on my blog, my new blog, Alejandro t rojast dot com. You can't find all of these things now, but I'll be posting them
up real soon. But I'm going to keep that updated for everyone. But you know what I put there, and you should check this out too, Martin, it's kind of fun. At Alejandro t RoHS dot com. I made a list of a lot of the media things I've been involved with, and it's a really long list. I was surprised, but you can find
links to lots of the videos, interviews I've done for news. You can see a link to my taking the Kardashians to Area fifty one, stuff like that, and tons and tons and tons of mainstream articles where they've mentioned my
work or interviewed me. So a lot of fun. I was kind of proud putting that list together, but I'll be putting a lot of stuff there so you can see it as well as my social media, So if you want to watch those videos, please do, and then take out my dene of geek articles because I do give a lot of background into those blue Book
cases. And then for instance, when there are phenomena that happened in the television show that weren't about the case they were covering, but did happen in other high profile cases, then I review those other high profile cases with links as well. And I also include links back to the original Bluebook files on all of these cases as well, so you can go actually see the Project
blue Book files. And I don't see any other reviewers or writing writers who are writing about Project blue Book linking to the blue Book files for some reason. So if you want to go see those and find out how you can read all the blue Book files, go check out those articles. But I also don't forget International UFO Congress. We've got more information for us coming about
speakers and tickets in the next month or so. But we've got lots of cool products that you can see at the store, so check out the store and then and we've got free videos up. So speaking of some of the new stuff coming out, you know, we've got a debate with Stanton Friedman and Jeremy Corbel, and I did want to mention I saw Nick Pope at the Snowfest Alien Snowfests in Big Bear, California. Karen just decided in the last minute, hey, let's go out there and see if they'll get his
table. So we did and we sold some stuff and hung out with some of our friends. So it was a lot of fun, got to talk to people. But Stanton was there, so really, yeah, it was great to see him, and we did get because I keep making sure that he's going to do it. We didcate a confirmation he will be speaking at the UFO Congress, his last presentation at the UFO Congress, so we'll be doing something special with that and him at the UFO Congress because he's, of
course such an important, great guy. And I know Jeremy felt he won that debate with Stanton over Bob Blazaar, but I don't think everybody feels that way, especially if you look in the comments, and I didn't feel it was really one sided at all. So that was a lot of fun. But you can see that on the UFO Congress YouTube page. You can watch that video. Yeah, I'm interested to see that. Oh you haven't seen that yet? No, no, oh, yeah, you have to go
check that out. So yep, just the UFO Congress YouTube pa where we also have a lot of other great lectures up there for free. We have our UFO Jeopardies that were a lot of fun where we had kind of a game show with UFO researchers. And I've got to talk up there from Lee Spiegel, which is really good because Lee's awesome, of course, and so check that out. Otherwise, I want to thank Micah Hanks for the opening and closed music. People are always asking about it because it's so cool.
Just or not Mikah Hanks, it's his brother, Caleb Hanks. Caleb Hanks for the opening and closed music. In fact, go look for Caleb Hanks on Patreon if you want to get more of that music. He shares it all for free and he's creating new music that's super cool all the time. I love it. Thanks to Systematics for the bumper music. And here's the end part where we say thank you to the people. Martin, just so you're ready, yes, and thank you all the listeners for being here.
Thank you so much for coming and patronizing the show until next time, Audios smooth shot Jos