UAP Analysis and Science with Dr. Doug Buettner

Today and Open Mind UAP News. We've got some wild science news. Congress is still crazy about UAP. We've got an interview with doctor Doug Bittner, an astronomical engineer, and of course we'll review some Enigma UAP. So stay tuned. Hello and welcome to Open Mind JAP News. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas. I've got some great news and update on something I've been working on. But before that, let's go ahead and get into the news. There's quite a bit going on here, beginning with, like I said,

some wild science news. So in this case, it has to do with Dyson's fears. This is something that's been theorized as potentially something that an advanced alien civilization would do. I've always been a bit skeptical, to be honest, but the news is that there are scientists who are saying maybe they have some evidence that Dyson spheres are happening. So here's an image a Dyson sphere. Essentially, it's just like we do a solar panels, you know,

on our roofs. Instead they're saying, and this was an idea that came from the sixties, that an advanced civilization would harness the energy from the Sun and their solar system by surrounding it essentially by solar panels. Here's an image where the object the Sun, is not completely surrounded, but you know, somewhat surrounded. In the past, there have been situations where we thought

maybe we got some other indication of a Dyson sphere. In that case, it was a signal from a star that was kind of erratically going up and down that still hasn't been determined that Actually people think that it might be some sort of cosmic dust, but in this case Dyson, the science the Freeman

Dyson, who theorized this in the sixties. He said that one way that we would be able to detect these is by looking for the waste, and the waste in this case would be an infrared heat signature, but we didn't have the technology to do that in the past. Now there is a group that is reviewing five million stars that we have in our databases and looking for signs of an inferred heat, that signature that we can't explain, and they

just released that they have found seven potential candidates thus far. Just because they're getting some inferre to heat doesn't mean there's a dice in sphere around this. No, but the way the news is, they love to take off with this sort of thing. So that's the news in the headlines you're saying about, you know, potential Dyson spheres around suns. Moving on news from the economic times. Now, this is something that I've talked about a lot,

and that is a study from the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies. Of course, I've been a board member for a long time. I'm not currently. I'm focusing on other efforts that I'm going to share with you towards the end of the show. But this article came out, did UFOs deactivate US missiles collect vital information on nuclear arsenals and ICBMs? What did Pentagon mandarins say? Such a weird term, mandarins, But what they mean is Pentagon officials.

Well, when the Pentagon was asked about nukes and UAP in a hearing, they said they didn't have any information on that, which was kind of concerning. I even did a couple of news interviews saying, well, that's weird because it's a big topic in this sphere, and the military themselves are the ones who raised this concern in the fifties. So it was interesting that they

didn't know anything. And I don't know if they've gone back and educated themselves yet, but the Scientific for Coalition for UAP Studies, some of their members have put out several research documents regarding this topic. What they've done is gone back into the past, look for really good sightings, and then look for things like are there more sightings at facilities that held nuclear material than at regular

military installations or nearby populated areas. And what they found is that there was a statistically significant increase in sightings in early weapons development areas and facilities, which is really interesting. I highly recommend people going to the website. I'll put a link in the show notes and checking out their study because they had some

really interesting findings. Now, they did find some increases compared to other areas in some of the other locations, but none of it was that significant or like I said, statistically significant, which is what a study's looking for. The other thing that they did was an analysis on intent, So they did an intelligence type of analysis to say, you know, what seems to be

the nature of this observation. Should there be observation going on by whatever these UAP may be, And they said it seemed to be more along the lines of data gathering. You know, this does fit along with anecdotal information, and we do have a lot more kind of nuclear facilities with government documentation around

incursions into their airspace. Now, one of the reasons might be because that is some of the most secure airspace, so they're going to have more attention being paid to incursions over those facilities and that may be the case that why we have the documentation. But still really interesting stuff. It's great the Economic Times has covered this because I think the SEU guys did some great work there

that is worth looking at. Moving on aviation safety and unidentified anomalous phenomena discussed at the European Parliament, so this is really interesting in cooperation cooperation with the UAP coalition Netherlands they're called, but essentially a European Parliament member, Francisco Guerrero has kind of been pushing this forward and covering UAP and he says that he's

had a lot of positive response. One of the things that he has proposed is having the EU have a standard reporting system that they can collect UAP reports on. So that's really interesting, very positive news. This is just kind of the beginning. But you know, one of the concerns here is that they need to pay attention because some of this stuff could be drones or Russian

or Chinese weapons systems that they need to pay attention to. So, just like it's been the trend lately, a lot of the UAP discs is kind of around awareness, all domain awareness, so in other words, making sure that we understand what's in our errors, what is going over secured airspace, you know, making sure we understand all of the threats that could be out there. And the biggest threats that we're having currently are drones that are flying

around and we don't know who they are. And the other, of course concern is advanced technologies from other countries. Now a lot of people are saying, well, what's that got to do with UAP. We're looking for something

more strange than that, and you're right, but UAP is divined. It is something that is not something that is not immediately identifiable, and of course these eye objects wouldn't be And my argument is, hey, if this is what gets people looking, then the other thing they're going to be collecting. And of course a lot of these groups are there concerned also or their interests, like in what are the strange things that are out there and the data

that's going to be collected on that. Hopefully that data will then be shared with researchers that was in the debrief and ifl science. This article came out and now it's been all over the place. UFOs may be evidence of crypto terrestrials secretly living among us, so says a paper that has been written,

and the researchers are from Harvard's Human Flourishing Program in Montana Tech University. The study is really weird, and this article even admits that it's really kind of going into hearsaying kind of the wild stories out there that you get from the Internet and proposing that well, maybe there's something living underground, or some sort of weird thing that's been here for a long time, or aliens disguising themselves as humans. Lots of really weird stuff and as it highlights here, highly

controversial information that it's taking to make these proposals. This paper has not been peer review, but it's awfully interesting that they undertook this study and it has been really this is a first story that came out a couple of days ago, six days ago, but I've noticed the last couple of days really there's been a ton of headlines on this story. So we'll see with that if you're interested. There's a link here to that paper for you to go read.

In other news, the Daily Mail. I don't necessarily always cover the Daily Mail because they're pretty sensationalistic. However, this article is written by doctor David Clark, who is a journalist a lecturer, but he also focuses on folklore and has written and researched a lot about UAP, often from a skeptical perspective. But that's what I find really interesting about this case. So this headline, two British friends took this UFO picture, then vanished after a visit

from sinister men in dark suit, breaking his silence. After thirty four years, their old colleague now reveals what happened and says they were not meant to see it. Ooh, so there is a mystery about this case. This case is called the Calvine case often. It happened in nineteen ninety where these two guys were hiking. They saw a diamond shaped object and a jet flying

around nearby snapped a picture. That picture is now somewhat famous. Now, I interviewed Nick Pope, who worked for the Ministry of Defense looking at UAP cases. Mysteriously, David Clark does not include Nick Pope in this article, although I think he has voiced some disagreement with Nick Pope in the past. I'll put it that way. But Nick Pope has an interesting story because he

said this was a known case when he worked in the MOD. They even had a copy of the photo put up on the wall in their office. But one day he came to work and it was taken down. He said, where did the photo go? And they said, well, we took it down because we think that it is high tech US technology, and that is kind of the leading theory for this photo. But at that time that I talked to Nick, we didn't have a very good picture of it.

We had a artist rendering off of Nick's memories and a photo copy version of that photo. The photo came out in two thousand and nine when the MOD released their UAP files, and David Clark says that's what got him interested. He since has done a lot of research and he actually got a copy of the photo. There you go, ladies and gentlemen, if you follow me, you know, we've looked at this image and talked about it quite a bit. But what he's been looking for are the original witnesses and he has

not been able to find them. And that's been a lot of what he's been writing about looking for these witnesses and they have not been found. This article is interesting just because this is a coworker of these two gentlemen. They were chefs. This guy, now you know, many years later, is coming out and saying, well, he was friends with them, and he saw some men in black looking guys go talk to them, and after they seemed a bit frazzled, and then they left town and were never seen again.

So he believes that maybe they saw something they weren't supposed to. He is also speculating that maybe they saw some top secret military thing that they weren't supposed to see. And this is the guy their friend here who is the subject of his story back then when he was twenty one, So that's kind of the story. Here. Here you can see the original photo copy and

then the actual picture that David Clark was able to find. Luckily, some researcher who worked at the mod had the picture and had kind of stuffed it away, and then when he read about David Clark looking for the image, he got in touch and was able to share it. So a really really interesting case. I'll also link to my article on Open Minds about my interview with Nick Pope and this photo going missing from his office. In other news,

UFO's investigations in Japan. So there is a group of lawmakers in Japan who have decided to start a UAP organization. Again, this is because they're saying, you know, this could be Chinese or Russian technology or drone, so we really need to pay attention to UAP like the Americans are doing. What they're also referencing is an arrow document which shows some of the hot spots around the country, and it shows that an area in between a Japan in

China there have been a lot of sightings. So that's one of they're justifying making this organization. So it's always a good step, right when countries are paying attention to this and hopefully putting some more eyeballs on it and maybe even

getting some interesting information. But in the past, the Japanese government mysteriously I said, they haven't gotten any UAP reports, and in the Japanese The Japannews dot com or newspaper here allegedly the Japanese Aviation Bureau says that they have not received any uf reports in the past five years. So I really wonder what's

going on there. It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't receive any sidings, especially because most other countries and definitely the US, get quite a few sightings reported, even though it's kind of looked upon poorly or the FA for instance, doesn't have a policy out there to make it clear how to report UAP. So it's interesting that japan is saying that they don't get these reports.

So is it a cultural thing where people just don't want to report? This is something I'd love to talk to someone more familiar with the Japanese kind of aerospace industry out there about. Hopefully we'll get that chance. If you're one of those people, definitely let me know. But yeah, very interesting story to developing there. What's next for ARROW? So I'm just highlighting this article

is out there. It's a great article by Douglas Dean Johnson. He's someone that I followed quite a bit because he's doing a great job on letting us know about legislation around UAP, but he is also good at delving into the details, giving us information on the stage of whatever legislation as it's being improved or not, and then also giving us details on what's in that legislation. Well, he's wondering, well, what's going on with AEROW now? So

we interviewed a lot of people. He interviewed doctor Kirkpatrick. He interviewed some people like Chris Mellan, Tim Galladette. He also talked to some skeptics such as Stephen green Street from the New York Post and mcwest and ask them what's going on with her or what do you think is happening? And they got some very interesting perspectives, and I think that the wide amount of perspectives is

really interesting. What I do find interesting, also, though, is that this idea of disclosure, none of these people are very clear about what that means. What is disclosure to them? And at least in UFO circles, it seems like disclosure is people wanting the government to disclose what they think they know, even though they don't have evidence to support what they think they know. It's kind of confusing because if I was to say, what is disclosure.

For me, it would be sure. I would want them to share more about the nature of what they know, but without an assumption that they necessarily know anything. And we'll get into that more in the future and just a bit here, but what I think is very interesting is I would want them to disclose more about disinformation that's something they do know. So have they had instances where they have confused the public or led the public to believe something's

a UFO when it's not. We have documentation that the CIA and the US Air Force did this in the nineteen fifties with the U two programs and with other aspects of this topic that should be really shared with the public. In fact, Congress is mandated that that's supposed to be part of the historical report

let alone. Many of you also know, I've done exhaustive research into a gentleman who worked for the US Air Force Office of a Special Investigation in the eighties, who created a lot of the mythology that people currently believe, and I believe influenced the belief systems of some of these whistleblowers that have come out. Many of the themes in this that came out from this guy. This guy who said he did it for disinformation. He said he would did it

at the behest of his superiors and in particular the Defense Intelligence Agency. And nobody's really addressed this, neither the US Air Force nor the Defense Intelligence Agency. So this is the sort of stuff I would like to have disclosed, let alone more about what they know. But do they know much? Let's get it more into that in just a second. So this tweet from Aero begins with great two days at aui's UAP workshop May sixteenth through the seventeenth.

Thanks NSF, the National Science Foundation for facilitating. So that's kind of interesting. We've got a little bit more news out there about this, how the National Science Foundation had a UAP workshop. We don't know much about who spoke or what was talked about, but certainly it looks like Aero was there, So that's very interesting. But otherwise, getting into Congress and Congress delving into the topic still. Senator Kristen Gillibrand. This comes from Matt Laslo, someone

we've looked at before because he's asking lawmakers about UAP. But Kristen Gillibrand says that she wants to have a public hearing sometime in July September at the latest. Now the hearing is an update from Arrow, and that's what she's looking for. Others, of course, want more information. Congressman, he's a US House of Representatives representative for California. But Congressman Robert Garcia actually proposed a

few amendments for the upcoming NDAA. Now this is the National Defense Authorization Act, and in the last three years, this is what has shaped kind of the government's involvement with UAP research, creating Arrow, asking for the historical documents, that sort of thing. The Schumer Amendment was something that came up last year, and this was an amendment that was going to create a panel that

could overlook the release of information, and this panel would include civilians. It included things like eminent domain on any materials that are obtained that are deemed to be non human in nature. So Garcia was proposing a similar amendment to the Schumer Amendment in the House where the NDAA, but those all got shot down. He says they were being blocked from being considered by House Republican leaderships,

so those look like they won't happen. In fact, Dean Johnson, who were talking about just a minute ago, says it doesn't look like there will be any UAP amendment for the first time in this act, and this could be the reason. New article in Bloomberg Great article by Tyler Cowen. He is a occasional Bloomberg opinion columnist. He's written about UAP a few times. He is a professor of economics at George Mason University and host of the Marginal

Revolution blog. But he writes here, the real government conspiracy isn't about UFOs. Officials aren't suppressing evidence that alien life forms exist. They're just embarrassed to admit that they don't know. And I think he's right. He goes on to talk about a few things. First, he talks about this Intelligence Authorization

Act that just passed. Here. It is it which asks for a review of ARROW and what they're up to, essentially, and it also kind of talks about their funding, but essentially saying that you know, there should be no funding on UAP unless Congress is aware at first. So that's interesting. But what he's saying here is that certainly Congress is interested in getting more information,

but is there more information there? He points out that the historical document that came out from Arrow when it got into older cases, was very vague and it didn't include the most important cases. So he's saying that if his students were to write a paper, he would expect that one of the big important points that was made in this report, which was that UAP are a concern and there are some that are mysterious, he would want that up front.

And I think he's right. You know, that's a huge statement to make, But it wasn't until way later in the document that they made that statement, and they didn't justify that statement. How would they have justified that statement by covering something like the nimics or some of these other more mysterious cases that they have yet to answer. But instead they really don't include anything they couldn't answer and gloss over that, trying to kind of make it seem like

they have a handle on the subject when they really don't. And his point is they don't want to admit that, they don't want to admit that there are good cases out there they can explain. And I think he's exactly right. I think that's part of what's going on. Also, what's part of

going on is what I'm talking about. They're also not talking about their role in disinformation or misleading the public, which has created all of these conspiracies that Aero's former chief Song Kirkpatrick has been very vocal about in the media, being upset that these people in their conspiracies are side tracking me and they're they're getting in the way and they're convincing Congress of all this crazy stuff and I can't do my job. Well, that's fine, but what role did you play

government? Obviously, the CIA, the US Air Force, this guy who worked for the Air Force OSI and while he was working for them, putting out this disinformation and saying he was doing at that at the behest of his leaders. All of that is responsible for this environment, partially largely responsible for this environment. They definitely need to answer for that, and hopefully they will.

But I think he's right. I think that these people who say the government's hiling aliens, all of this stuff that comes from these tropes, this mythology and that's been out there and has not been proven for decades, I think they're really way off base. That they're really expecting the government to be much more competent around this topic than they actually have been. So I think

he's exactly right. That's the conspiracy and that's what's being hidden. But still by hiding that information, by not being forthcoming, then it gives this air of secrecy and what are you hiding? And they really just don't speak to it. That's why we need to do something else. And I've got a solution for us, and I'll go over that just a little bit here, but getting into the final kind of pieces of newscare starlink. So a new People paper came out. This is an article on fizz dot org. Starlinks

can produce surprisingly bright flares for UAP pilots. So this is something we know. We've covered this quite a bit. We've talked to Ben Hansen, but there's another guy who has helped write a paper on this very topic, and that is doctor Doug Bitner, and we're going to be talking to him in a minute. But this is a great example. This is something that's happening a lot. There are a lot of pilots that are submitting videos We've even

gotten them at Enigma that look weird, but they're actually starlink satellites. Because starlink satellites look very strange from an aircraft, and especially commercial aircraft and these commercial pilots are seeing these things. It's something that should be researched and it should be disseminated amongst pilots. But it's not really happening. But we'll talk to doctor Doug about that in just a minute. But this is interesting news

that came out lately. And then finally, I'm really excited about this. I just got my copy. But a historian, Greg Edegean, I know I'm saying his name wrong, but hopefully I'll be able to get in contact with him. I'll try to interview him actually for our show here. But he is a historian who's written a book about UFOs after the flying Saucers came So I just got my copy. I'm excited to read it. But this

book just came out. It proves to be very interesting and well researched, so it says here written by an academic who's research on UFOs and alien contact has been featured in the media and supported by NASA and the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum. And it actually came out from Oxford University Press. So I'll be reading that and letting you know what I find. But that's the news for today, Let's go ahead head and take a look at our interview

for this week, doctor Doug Bittner. All right, I am very happy to introduce our guest, doctor Doug Bittner. Hello and welcome Nil Andre. How you doing doing great? So You've got a huge resume here, and I'm going to try to go through some of the highlights and definitely let people know anything I exclude. But currently you're a deputy Chief Scientist for the Acquisition

Innovation Research Center, a nonprofit that works with defense. You had twenty years with the Aerospace Corporation, where you were a flight Software Systems Director advisor on the Sentinel missile program. You've worked at the Pentagon for the Acquisition Policy Analysis Center. You've been a consultant for NASA's JPL, a very famous group.

Let's see you are in the junk professor at the University of Utah. You taught software intensive space systems engineering at the University of Southern California, and space systems engineering at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. I actually went to see you in Boulder. Let's say you've got your degrees at Oregon State University

or PhD at the University of Southern California. And the most recent thing you've done, I guess is you've published a paper in March called the Enhancing Space Situational Awareness to Mitigate Risk, a single case study in the misidentification of a recently launched Starlink satellite train as a UAP in commercial aviation, and that seems

to be a really important topic. That's something that I've interviewed Ben Hanson on who I work with closely, and something that he had identified as that, you know, all of these pilots are seeing the Starlink satellite, they don't know what it is, and it doesn't seem to be something that the FAA

has tackled. Yeah, it was. One of the things that was interesting is that when we went through the paper and you know, pulling it together, it was actually amazing to me that the FAA is almost silent on these things after it gets reported. I mean, there's no feedback mechanism to let

that pilot know what they were actually seeing. And so what we tried to do is come up with a you know, an approach right to where pilots would have like an app on a phone, you know, if they if they report something that's like through a different, completely different approach, and so we suggested like the Enigma Labs, the Cider app even suggested stillarium, but something that you know they could do it and potentially do it anonymously and then

be done with it. Right. But then if you do these apps, hopefully with these sightings, then you can have that back wrap around feedback to where they can go look on on their theirs submission later on to see actually what it was they saw. I mean, because part of it is going to be education of the pilots so they know what they've actually been seeing and then so they'll be reporting them less. So that was part of the goal of it. So mm hmmm, that's great. That makes a lot of

sense and Enigma. You know, one of the things that we've tried to do is kind of crowdsource the analysis part. You know, with New York you got involved, Ben got involved. I had sent him and I sent him send him some of the best stuff that you know, I review even with my audience here to look at. But write the feedback loop, you don't know who to trust sometimes because as you've seen, you know, you'll get a lot of responses. Oh it was probably this, this or that.

Some of the stuff I saw on like Reddit and everything else. It was like, oh, come on, people right right, So it gets really difficult who to trust. And that's what I've been trying to do even with the show, is get that kind of feedback so that people can here who are the credible people looking at it, such as yourself and what you

all have come up with. Yeah, and actually on that one in particular, what's kind of fun is you know, so Ben sent uh sent us like three different things to look at, and I almost zeroed in on that one immediately because first off, it's an airplane, and I just got through doing an airplane analysis, right, so I knew how to do that just very easily. So we were trying to see if we get the ADSB data for that flight. And the second I saw that you had the Averrizonto Bridge

in there, Narrow's Bridge. I noticed the tower with the shadow coming off of it, and so obviously the first thing I had to do was figure out what bridge it was, and so I literally shoved that into Google image and it came back with that, and so then I was able to then take another website which you can use for shadow analysis, and unfortunately it was like ten days later, and I didn't want to pay money to go on

the day, so I was able to figure out it was. You know, my estimate was between three and three thirty based on it, you know, ten days later. And so I think that's probably why I was off about a half an hour, just because I didn't have the exact date iled in there. But then once we had, once we had that information, and then you worked with with Ben to get get them the witness, we

were off to the races because we had the light number. I had the actual video so I could see it exactly what time those objects the object went through the frames. And and it was kind of funny because after I was I had already pegged one of two things, either a balloon or UAV, and the balloon that I had initially saw and read it, I thought, well, maybe if it's far away, it might look like that. But the problem is then at that far away, it would have had to been

really moving fast right for five frames. And so we tried doing additional stuff. For example, with the bridge, I got GPS coordinates right, so now I got the DESB data. And so with the bridge, tower, I know, how about how big that is? And so I was trying to trying to estimate basically a field of view, okay, and so I

came up with distances between about sixty four feet ninety four feet. And so actually at the SCU conference, Nick Gold and I, I actually brought the balloon that I believe it is the O or the zero, I should say, and then went out there and did a six feet and then ten feet, fifteen feet out to about fifty feet, and then I did at sixty sixty four sixty four is as close as I thought it was, and then went out to ninety four feet, and then he did a one hundred and

one hundred twenty. So we've got it. We're pretty sure. We've got to bracket it. And you know, I'm standing there trying to rotate it around, trying to get the right angle, and it's about frames per second. I should be able to, in my movie come up with the right thing and we can interplate. And you look at the balloon in my in the video, we got yeah it's the one. Yeah, yeah. I at first thought, to my credit, it was probably a solar balloon,

but Ben had disillusioned me. Of that because he had actually done some work with solar balloons and they collapsed easily. So that would have collapsed because they're just then. But then once you proposed that black zero, that was it. You could do it. That really fit on it. Yeah. And the thing is, once you rotated a little bit and you got the sun at the right angle, the reflection glint off the balloon looks the same as in the video, and that that rotation aspect of it. And with the

five frames you kind of see some fuzziness at the end. That's probably the flap where you actually blow it up. And so you know, like I said, you know I told you eight better than eighty percent, I'm getting

close to saying better than ninety percent. Once I nailed down actually taking that video, decomposing the frames, seeing how big it is at what distance, and then the other thing I still need to do is I would say narrow down because according to the Noah weather that we found online in the FA you know has that archived at Iowa State, what we're able to do is get

the winds aloft and that was something that Mick West completely ignored. And so the winds loss was doing thirty three knots based on the data right at three thousand feet, so they were a little less than three thousand feet, so you know it's probably about right, and there's probably some additional stuff we can do. Yeah, it went to a lot being really important because when you add that to the speed of the aircraft, your estimations of speed are like

right. And that's why And that's what was so funny with what was going on on Twitter. I mean I'm literally on my way driving out to my Skinwalker property. I got in your Skinwalker ranch, and i see my phone blowing up with all these people talking about you know, three hundred and sixty miles per hour, and I'm like, what where did that come from? Yeah? Yeah, just misunderstandings because of being able to translate, you know,

from feet per second from knots to miles per hour. That uses a lot of people, and a lot of people don't realize knots is not the same as miles per hour. And yeah, so those numbers I can confuse me. In fact, that was the first mistake I had made because somebody said, well, it's a knots. I'm like, oh, I thought it was a meals miles per hour in terms ADSP and so so when I said three sixty, it was assuming that I had miles per hour coming in

the ADSP data. And so my saying okay, now I got it at four hundred feet per second, that's me saying, okay, I fixed the knots problem, right, and then retranslated. But yeah, it's fundamentally a vector problem. Right, So you know, you're as far as you're you can tell being on an airplane going two hundred and seven knots, and then something goes by you, it appears like it's going your speed, your speed

plus their speed in the opposite direction, right. I mean, anybody that's been on an airplane and saw you know, you're flying along you see another airplane go in the other direction. Basically you're seeing it doing twice the speed or about right. So if you're doing four and a miles per hour at altitude or you know, they can get going pretty quick at altitude five hundred plus, and so you know, it's it's just a it's a vector problem.

And that's what I was trying to explain on Twitter. I think that's what you know, you pointed this out. The difficulty of you know, I currently just really try to not interface with social media a lot on these things, just kind of share information because it becomes really really difficult. As you saw, where there are so many people invested in these things being mysterious, and of course we would love that as well, but you know,

you got to stick with whatever the facts are. And they get so upset when you know, you do an analysis and you share this information and it's just you know, they don't want to hear it. I know I've had that same exact conversation with Ben spot On. I mean, as a scientist, you're almost damned if you do any damned if you don't. Right, So the one thing is you do want to give it a proper analysis, but I mean, you want to call a horse a horse. You don't

want to call a horse a pig. I mean everybody who likes to see pigs, but I'm sorry, it's a horse, right, It's I just I look at it this way. I know that you know, probably better than ninety percent of the sightings out there are probably natural objects or things of that nature, and it's just coming up with an ability to find those things quite quicker and be able to remove them from you know, the ten percent

we'd really love to get data on. And and trust me, you know, I know you sent me at least one video where I'm like, oh, that one's interesting, right, And and so it's just a matter of trying to get more data where it's those interesting things that we scientists were saying, yep, nope, give me more of that, you know, and then we can start figuring out what these things are, where they're coming from. You know, where they're coming from might be harder to get at because

we don't even know how they're getting here. I mean, there's different things in quantum mechanics. Anybody that's been watching the warp drive al Kubi air warp drive, that's a possibility right. In fact, I would say that's probably one of the leading candidates wormholes, which is what they believe they got out at Skinwalker Ranch. And so it's like there are things in physics that would allow it, and people just need to understand that, Okay, great,

they do exist. There are theories, and it's the problem of proving the theories correct and then identifying how you can utilize from a human race standpoint, that specific motor transportation rate. I mean, it would just phenomenally revolutionize things. But then you know, if I put my national security out on, you know, we can get into a long discussion on nuclear weapons, okay, And in fact, I got into a long discussion at the SCU because

I've got a lot of that in my background. I've you know, been briefed on that kind of stuff. What people don't understand and what they need to be reminded of is when we first built nuclear weapons, it was US in Russia. It was what's called two person game theory. You didn't have all the other players. And so now when you're in two person game theory, it's a very simple problem to solve. But now you have basically en person game theory. Ie, you don't have just the US and Russia.

You've got the US, You've got France, you've got the UK, You've got probably Israel, You've got China, you got North Korea, and so right, it's a big list. And now you're in something called the Texas standoff where literally you've got people pointing a gun at you know, like you know, at everybody else. And there's only one way out of a Texas standoff that I know of, and that's at least one of the players has to come up with something that revolutionize and completely makes that other, you know,

a bad weapons. So it's not a problem. It's like you can completely remove that as a threat, or you come up with a much worse threat. Unfortunate. It's just it's just kind of the way we have to think about it in terms of how you resolve the problem. I would I would welcome a game theorist to tell me, oh, no, there's another one and you forgot about it, right, Which gets back to the really kind of legitimate difficulty that the military would have in releasing any information on this

topic. Yeah, that twofold, And this is why I think, you know, the citizen science is so important that we're not going to get much

from the government. It's difficult and maybe irresponsible in some cases for them to give us much because there's either the case that we're identifying advanced technology from an enemy of the sort that you're taught about, which then we need to be on top of and very secretive about, or we are witnessing novel technology being used by a third party that's more exotic, which then we want to harness and use, for instance, to break this Texas standoff and to win that

standoff. And so that's again we need to be very careful with that information. And that's the reason I bring it up is let you know, make sure people understand, you know, what, there's a reason the government if if they are withholding it, which you know, for example, Ross Coultarts is convinced, and I would say other people that I've talked to are fairly convinced. I'm just gonna say, if that is happening, that's why. Okay, it's it's because you want to be the first one out out the

door with that new technology. And and and we as a nation, as the United States of America, we need to assume that the other nations, your other players in the game you're trying to rush in particular, also have retrieved crash vehicles and they are also attempting to reverse engineering. And so I know the stuff I've heard and read about if you let's say you had a crash recovery pick Roswell, for example, we didn't have the technology back then

that we do now. And so you know, assuming they're reverse engineering, it's like as material science improves, as our ability to manufacture stuff improves, we get closer and closer to being able to do a good job a reverse in engineering some of that, and so you just basically have an arms race going on, and you've got to be very careful. You don't want to have the military basically show their hand before they're they're ready and they believe the

technology is ready to be able to end that Texas standoff. I mean that fundamentally is what we're up against, right And what's interesting I think and has gotten lost is that Chris Mellon's argument, and Chris mellen being the former Deputy Assistant Secretary Fence for Intelligence, who was a large I've written a lot about this, was a large influence on bringing this topic to the forefront and getting

Congress and the Pentagon to take it seriously. His argument was that if it is foreign tech, then we need to pay attention to it to be able to harness that technology. If it's not foreign tech, then we also need to harness that technology and begin doing these things, stop ignoring it, and begin doing reverse engineering if we can capture them in order to harness these technologies.

So he was coming from a perspective of this isn't happening and he's even said he didn't see it happening when he was involved in, you know, overseeing the SAPs and black projects and such. But it's something that we should be doing. So there's all these different angles and nuance that I think get lost on a lot of people. Yes, no, that's that's exactly right. And so you know, hopefully your video will be viewed by a few people that you know are disgusted with it. Well, I know then,

and I've had this other discussion. It's like, you know, if you really want to think about it, about a nuclear weapon and the disclosure part of it, you could do it similar to what they did for nuclear weapons, right, and so the DOE actually handles the radioactive material and the actual bomb itself, if you will, where all the services don't do that.

All they do is provide delivery platforms. And so you could do something very similar with indisclosure to where you said, Okay, the technology aspect of it, military, the actual biologics, assuming they exist, let's put that onto somebody else, right, Nationalist, true to health, pick pick somebody, right, And so then you could have the ability to have the disclosure.

We got them right. But then again, even doing that even providing that kind of disclosure, and you're now saying, Okay, I have this stuff, which actually is a turn into itself people think. I think about that

very carefully. If your other nations understand that you have this technology, then it's going to be oh, I wonder what they've got that we don't how far they are on the reverse engineering, right, and so that would actually in fact help I would say, delay a potential or potential nuclear war if it got close. But then you have I mean, there's just a lot

of moving parts of this kind of stuff, right. And then it gets back to because we've had Kirkpatrick of Arrow, you know, speak to this somewhat saying if it's exotic, if it's something that's not human mainta, then I want to send it to NASA to analyze with. But is that true? You know, there's definitely an aspect where they would want to back engineer

and you know, capitalize on those discoveries. The other side of this is a disinformation side, which they were tasked to analyze in the historical report but didn't. And we do know even the New York Times has reported on the CIA using like the U two, making people think it as UFOs instead of the U two, that sort of thing in the past and finding out it actually became a bigger headache than they thought. But then we also have you

know, Air Force Special investigation personnel in the eighties putting out disinformation. Was that official? If so, for what purpose? It would think that maybe the purpose that you're speaking to. So you know, there's there's just talk about a pandemic box having worked in those kinds of programs, I will tell you. I can't get into details, but I can't tell you A poster

that was on the wall. A poster that was on the wall was on the UFO and it says, make them believe our technology is from outer space. And fundamentally it's a it's a mind game, if you will, right. It's like, you know, we've got some terrific capability as a country in terms of defense and offense. I mean, most of my career has been on the defensive side. And if you think specifically about that from a from a capability, and fundamentally, we as a nation are trying to not

get into a war. You know, we are not one that immediately you know, pulls the pulls the gun and starts shooting people. They're usually very very you know, solid reasons for why we get into them. I would say probably Iraq is probably the most sketchy one that we've had to get into. But even that I look at, you know, what happened, and all right, I can I can sit on the fence on that one.

Some people will be one way or the other by all means, but and an example of to be wary of intelligent information, that's exactly where I'm going. That's why I sat on the fence on that one. Yeah, because we had we had intelligence I was just fundamentally wrong and it was it was faked, it was it was bogus, and that's what led the leaders to believing that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. And that fundamentally is where we

go. I mean, if you're if you're if your job is to protect the American people, right, that's your job, and that a lot of people in the Department Defense take that job very seriously. They really do. And I've been asked about corruptions in OSD and stuff, and I'm like, you know, in the military, I'm like, I don't see corruptions. I see passionate people trying to protect them. Now we may disagree in terms of that, you know, where to take that passion, which is fine.

That's being an American, right, right. You have the ability to disagree. But I'll tell you right now, I mean, I don't see the corruption that I hear people trying to say that's there. I just haven't seen it exactly. You know, my family public servants. They both ran the National Park Service. I've done a lot of reporting on science and space and working with NASA and astronauts and you know, military witnesses, even when it comes to UAP, and I see exactly the same of what you see.

I see patriotic Americans trying to do the right thing for the public and the public sector. I don't see people actively being deceptive or attempting to not you know, take on their mandate. And anybody, in my experience of what I've seen, anybody who had kind of malicious intent wouldn't make it very far. Yes, No, that's right, they don't. They get weeded

out by the system pretty darn quick. And so I just, you know, I continue to hope that you know, we as a country, can you know, hold ourselves together and just understand that we need to gree to disagree versus you know, trying to choke the other side, you know, whichever side you believe in, right so, and getting into all of that difficulty when it comes to the government in the military, it comes back to

you know why I'm passionate about working with Enigma Labs collecting data, collecting these great videos and then getting them analyzed in the public sector, you know, transparently, and then also working with the scientific coalition of UAP Studies, where you've got citizen scientists collecting data, writing papers again transparently, getting that out for debate and for scientific debate, and which makes them the findings even more

stronger. You know, now that you're part of your board member of SCU, you know what is your passion? What has gotten you involved in this topic? Uh? You know a few a few reasons why I got involved. First, I've moved out here to Utah and started watching Skinwalker ranch series to where I'm like, okay, you know, I'm gonna boil it down to there's some interesting phenomena there that I can't I can't easily easily dismiss. Okay, But at the same point I can I can boil it down to

either either their lying or or they're telling them the truth. And the only way you can really get at that is you've got to be able to independently go and assess it yourself. So I literally bought property near Skinwalker Ranch and

I'm fixing it up to do my own stuff. And I've talked to a lot of the neighbors around there, and you know, some say, you know, I've never seen anything, and I've lived here my entire life, and some say, oh, yeah, no, I saw this, you know, thing in the sky and it took off and it was you know, So it's it's kind of interesting that. And in fact, if you know Space Wolf and Ryan Burns, he's got property near there. He's got

some interesting stories and stuff that's happened on his property. And and so, uh me personally, and being a scientie, you I'll put my scientific hat on. It's like, okay, let me try try and tackle it right. And then at the same point, I personally have never seen anything that you know, from my work in the military or supporting the military, that I couldn't explain, or I haven't seen anything in the sky that I couldn't explain. Now, I do have one photo from one of my security cameras

on my property that I I'm scratching my head on. I showed it to Jay Stratt and he goes, I think you caught an ORB, right, But for me that I consider that a data point, right, that is not the answer. And so when I say a data point, okay, that camera is not geared for that kind of data collection. It was pure luck if I if that is an ORB, because I've got hundreds of other videos and images where there's nothing anomalous, right, And so I just want

to get better stuff out there and things of that nature. And and and I'm trying to work with the neighbors. I mean, some of them are on the fence, and you know, some of them don't want stuff on their property. And you know, so it's I think you got to kind of, you know, lead the way and get do it yourself. But then in my own personal background, my my mom claims that my grandfather had seen a UFO. They lived in port just now it's like almost downtown Portland.

But she said that my grandfather had seen UFO when and she doesn't remember if she was too young or had been born and actually looking at Robert Powell's UFOs and the government book. I think I identified which sighting it was, and I asked her, I said, it could have been nineteen forty seven and the police getting called in, and she goes, that might have been right. She goes, only about two years old at the time, and but I, you know, my grandfather passed away before I was even born,

so I never had a chance to even hear those stories myself. And then my mom also says that she had seen a couple of orbs sitting in the sky and she said they just kind of sat there. And she was, you know, seventh grade or something. She was running around with a friend and she stopped she saw him. She like pointed to her friend and goes, hey, what are those? She said, there was one it took off, So, you know, having that stuff in your background.

And then I got another case where I had my my ex father in law and divorce and remarried. But he's a chiropractor, or was a chiropractor in the Beaverton area, and their family had really close ties with the Vatican. Basically, his brother was a priest, and to get out of priesthood and get married you actually have to have a letter from the Pope, and he was able to do that because as I knew him, he was he was married and had kids. But so apparently they knew the upper echelon in the

in the Vatican. And fundamentally there was somebody from the Vatican visiting that he said claim the reason he was in the US was to go visit some aliens that they had given to the US government after World War Two, And just recently there was a news story on that. So I just found that interesting.

Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but it just I find it interesting that there's a i'll call it additional data points, right, And so you know, I'm happy to throw my experience and background and and try and help to get to the bottom of the of the phenomena. And I'll do what I can mm hmm. Interesting. And you know what else that makes me think of is I had a great interview the last show with ball lightning scientists, so and I was really surprised at some of the characteristics

that uh, they believe are ball lightning. And he even has like this amazing vid he's writing a paper on. So I mean, there's just a lot of scientific discovery to Yes, yes, I mean, I you know, if it's if it's a ball, I mean, because it's bright. I mean it pegged my uh pegged my camera in terms I ran a histogram

across it, and it pegged it. And I think it's you know, if you look at it, I mean, we'd have to do a completely different discussion on this, but I mean, if you look at it, it's like you can see a bright spot coming off my neighbor's fence, and then it looks like there's a reflection from behind it. And so you know, I don't think it's there's no real way for light to get there reflective in terms of where I'm seeing it. And so you know, me again,

I want to get I want to get something out there. My wife when we were out there one time, you know, she said she saw something kind of down you know, in the field behind our place, and she said it it seemed too bright to be like you know, animals eyes being reflect it back at her. But she didn't know what it was. And at that time I was passing a kidney stone, so I was in

pain, and the in our trailer. But uh, but yeah, so you know, it seems based on my my personal interaction with people out there and what I've seen in some of my data, there might be something there, and so you know, I'd like to get down to the bottom of it, you know. And I've as I mentioned, I know Jay Stratton and Travis Taylor both I interviewed at Radiance and decided to take the deputy Chief

Scientists position. But I as far as I can tell, they're they're good, outstanding people, and so I'll defend I'll defend what they're doing until I have data otherwise, right, right, And what's exciting I think is that

with technology being smaller and more affordable. Uh. And the good thing about you know, what has happened over the last few years, like skin Walker and the Pentagon and the Arab Project, is that there are more scientists getting involved, such as yourself, and so we're at a spot where the public does have the ability to do their own work and to figure this out on

our own. I have a positive outlook. Yeah, And you know, one of the things is I was kind of working in the background when I was at Aerospace Court because they fundamentally would not allowed me to do this publicly. But now that I no longer work for Aerospace, I can I can more directly get involved, and so it's that direct involvement. It's kind of

fun. I won't go into some of what I was doing as a as a behind the scenes guy, but you know, I do know I had some some positive impacts on some of the data analysis and scientific approaches they were studying. So that's pretty exciting. And then speaking of j and Travis and the whole kind of ASEPP group, Eric Davis, one of the scientists who

work with ICEAP, is working out Aerospace Corporation. Yes, I met Eric when I was in at Aerospace, but now that I'm in SCU, I mean, everybody talks about him, and I went looked at his background. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, it's a pretty interesting background he's got. Yeah, so what are you working on in the future. That's a great question. So I'm kind of supporting Ben been doing that a lot, so we'll see, you know, if some of his initiatives take off.

And then getting my property ready to start putting stuff out there. We talked about I started a proposal for doing research with my property, but when I saw how bad it was and how long it was going to take to clean up and all that, I kind of put that on the back burner. So I'll be bringing that, you know, trying to dust it off

and clean it up. I've been trying to work with Matt at uap X potentially have him bring his central suite out on my property again, trying to get some of the other property owners to allow us to put stuff on theirs. One thing that people don't, I would say non scientific people don't understand is when you do this kind of stuff, you should really be doing a control experiment at the same time, right, And so when I give you the data, I say, okay, this is what happened here. Oh,

by the way, I had exactly the same stuff deployed here. You know, this is what we did to calibrate it. And so there's a whole bunch of stuff that you should be doing in the background to do this, right. And until you actually start bringing some of that scientific rigor to it, you're always going to have a fraction of the scientific community that's just

not going to believe it, right. And so I mean where I'm trying to go is data integrity, Right, So when the data gets captured there's there's if I'm the one capturing it, there's a piece of that data that I can't touch that gets copied somewhere, right, and then there's a piece that I can work with or I can give to somebody else to work with.

And so data integrity is going to be one of the biggest things I start poking at as soon as I start getting some capability, and then trying to work with an enigma, a cider, a you know, SEU database where it goes in there and and they're they're curating it separately, They've got

backups and everything else. And so you know, what I'm trying to do and what I hope to help bring to the SCU with some of that rigor I see a lot of it already, but then just some of my experience in terms of, you know, having access to some of the database data coming off of our satellite systems, knowing some of those capabilities that I you know, I can't really talk about, but I can bring that experience to

the table. And so that's that's what I'm trying to do, right, And that experience is so important and building that network because I think a lot of you know, people out there gathering data who aren't necessarily scientists. They don't know the right way to collect that data. And now they can go

to someone like you who can give them at that advice. And it may be frustrating because now you have to double your effort, but at least now you know, you know that you'll be gathering data that's going to really product. I mean, first and foremost, my first recommendati if you think you've got something, give it to an Enigma labs. Give it to an SCU, right, so they've got it, and then they can reach out to

me or somebody else within the SCU to then analyze it. Right. It doesn't have to be me, there's lots of other great scientists out there. But I mean, if you understand the scientific method and how to do the analysis. I mean, in fact, you know, maybe what I do

is create a course, right and teach people how to do that. And so the Society for U I. P Studies has asked us to when I say us, it's Richard, Professor Richard Griffiths and I to to kind of regive the same paper we did at the SCU, but now for them, but have the have the twist on having that critical thinking aspect in there, right and kind of how that evolved on our on our project. So yeah, there's I'm finding that when it comes to UAP studies and having scientists support.

My gosh, you guys have been just starting for good scientific support for a long time and and hopefully as as as people better than I come in, we can we can help, you know, help turn that ship and get a going in the direction. Well, I agree, and and thank goodness people like you are involved, and thank you so much for taking the time to come do this interview. Oh happy, too happy to and good luck on your endeavors. And hopefully Anigba continues to thrive and and does great

things. Yeah, definitely won't be in touch, all right, that's a good cases to give you. Yep, yep, Thank you so much to doctor Bettner. What an interesting person and what an interesting interview. I really am excited for the future of this topic with people like him getting in and

doing analysis and getting involved with helping move this topic forward. I think that getting all of these kind of traditional scientists who have spent their life doing aeronautical science and physics and astrophysics and all of these things are really going to be able to help move the credibility of this topic forward, but even more than that, find answers. So hopefully we can find a space where we can all kind of get together to do this sort of research and focus on the

science and the citizens science. Hmmm, what kind of space would make that something that we could all work on together. I'll talk about that later, but first let's look at the Enigma signings. We have partnered with Enigma Labs to bring you interesting UAP sidings weekly that they collect via their app and website. If you have a report to submit, you can download the app app at the Apple App Store or submit it via the website at Enigma labs dot

io. And the interest of full disclosure, I am a paid consultant for Enigma, but that's how I can keep an eye on the best videos and keep you up to date on the good videos that come in, and I'm excited to share them with you on the show. So this week, I've got a signing that I think we can explain, and then I've got one that is much more mysterious. So first let's look at the one that I think we can explain. So I came across this one when we were looking

for sightings. One of my coworkers actually found it. We're looking at sightings from Japan. Why, we had a couple articles that came out in Japan about the Enigma Labs app, so we got more people downloading the app and looking at it from Japan, so we wanted to kind of look and highlight some of their sightings. Well, one of them that I found here and I'll go ahead and play it. You can see here is just some lights in the sky. They look very weird, kind of fuzzy or hazy and

round. This one in particular that they focus on it also kind of twinkles. What could that be? Ladies and gentlemen. This is the one where we can explain it. I am nearly I'm ninety nine point nine percent sure this is a Chinese lantern? How do I know? Here are the telltale signs on these ones. First of all, there's usually a few. Sometimes there's just one, but usually there's a few. And at the beginning of this video you'll notice there were a couple more there. They are a couple

more in the background, so there are actually three of them. But this person focuses on just one. When they zoom in, the object looks fuzzy because the camera is never getting focused. In fact, you can tell the cameras going from worst focus to bad focus to worst focus. It never gets completely in focus, so that's one of the problems, and that's why it looks round like it does. We can't see the actual shape of the object, but even if it was in focus, you would see something that kind

of looks like a point of light. It's also orangey. These are typically orange and red because that's the color of the paper that surrounds the candle that is inside. And they flicker, and that's the big giveaway. And you can when you watch this video, you can see the intensity of the light kind of dimming and getting brighter as it flickers because it's a candle that's inside

of this thing. So that's how you tell Chinese lanterns. They often look very astonishing when you're driving and you see this row of like three lights and they're just floating overhead and they look really cool. They get mistaken for UFOs a a lot, and I believe that's what's happened in this video as well. So this is just the educational part to let you guys know what a

Chinese lantern looks like. But I will put a link in the show notes, and if you disagree with me, feel free to go in and comment on the sighting or send me a note saying hey, I think you're wrong and here's why. And this is kind of exciting because this is a Japanese one. It's from Fusa in the Tokyo Prefecture, so in the Tokyo area in Japan, Tokyo being the largest city in the world, it's a big,

big place. But let's look at the more mysterious one. Ooh, I love these now, some of you you can see right off the bat looks pretty cool. This one is in Belgrade, Montana. It happened on June fifth, so just the other day, not very long ago. And I'll play this video and you can see what looks like a long object. So we see the night sky, there are clouds, but we see the starscape in the background, and you see this really long, bright object slowly

moving across the sky. It's and it's very very long like, but it's moving together. One of my first thoughts. And you can see as it gets to the clouds, it gets behind the clouds and you can't see it, so it's well well above the clouds. My first thought is maybe a starlink train of satellite, because you know there'll be several satellites in a row, all moving together. They usually seem to move a little faster than this, but maybe not. The issue here is it doesn't look like a string

of individual objects. It looks like one long object that is solid. The video, though, the camera plays a role and it's a psionics and I'm going to go over that a little more because this is an important piece of equipment. But a psionics is a light intensifier. It's kind of of like a night vision and it's a I almost said poor man's night vision, but that's not a good way to put it. It's a great piece of equipment. It's really cool. In fact, the night vision that it gets is

on par with very very expensive night vision military equipment. But what it does is it makes everything a lot brighter. So one tiny piece of light is going to look bigger with it being intensified. So it could be just several objects being blended together to look like one long object, but I don't know. It really doesn't look like that. But it could be, so I would love. That's why it's mysterious. That's why I can't figure out what

this one is. This is a really good one. I can't say for sure it is a sterling train, but take a look and let me know what you think. I know some of you are going to be like, what is he talking about? Why does he think it's several objects? It's obviously just one big, long object, And maybe you're right. I'm just trying to do what you do when you look at UAP sidings. What you have to do is try to rule out anything prosaic it may be. And

that's the closest thing I can think of this thing being. So I'm trying to roll that out, and I think maybe I have so maybe some other people will look at it more closely and be able to determine and see whether those look like individual objects. The other thing is if you have a psionics camera, So let me show you these on the website, and for those of you listen, I'll kind of describe it so you could see here.

The most expensive one is on sale for one hundred and fifty eight hundred and fifty dollars, which is actually a pretty good price, because you know night vision is going to be a lot more expensive. A night vision equivalent to something like this. The power of one of these is going to cost you a couple thousand dollars. What's incredible is these cameras have been out for at least five six years and there hasn't been a really good competitor that's come out.

There's been a couple that have tried. In fact, I'm frustrated because I paid three hundred and fifty dollars for an Indiego Go, which was a camera that was going to be a competitor to this one, to save money. A friend of mine suggested it, and that was three hundred and fifty dollars down the tubes. They never sent me the camera and they will not respond to my emails. Extremely frustrating. I probably should have just gone with

one of these. I just I still haven't gotten one. But the other cool thing about this camera is that beyond just doing the night vision, what a military grade night vision won't have that this has is a recording function, so you can record video, you can take pictures. It's a super device. It has a zoom, I believe, but it looks really clear, like you can see in that video, so you can see the Aurora Pro here is the best one. There is an Aurora Black, and an Aurora

Regular and an Aurora Pro. Each one has either different features. The Pro is the best one because it has the most light intensifying capabilities, so you're going to see more than with other things. And why is this helpful for looking for UAP. Well, when you go out in the sky and you look with your eyes or with binoculars, you're going to see a lot of stuff. But when you use one of these things, you see a lot lot more. So it really does help. And I have had at least

one incredible sighting using night vision. In fact, let me share with you that story. And there's a couple of things going on so at Enigma.

We've been doing some Twitter spaces where we've done some interviews. Our last one was with doctor Bittner, also with Ben Hansen, and we were talking about the New York LaGuardia case that I told you all about that got really big, right In fact, the case that I talked to you guys about last time on the show, I got ham like fifty thousand views on TikTok it went really big on TikTok, so you're getting like the best cases first before

anybody else on this show. But we're doing a couple more spaces next week. We're going to do one with Mick West. Of course he's a skeptic, but we're going to talk to him about his process and and you know his thoughts and get to know him better. But in a couple of weeks, on July second World UFO Day is what it's called, we're going to interview the Navajo Rangers. So John Dover and Stan Milford who were rangers for the Navajo and they were rolling on paranormal cases, including UFO cases, So

we're going to interview them about their UFO cases. You may see them. They've been on the Skinwalker Show. They're going to be on the Beyond Skinwalker show on History Channel. But I had my first sighting with them, so I've known them for a while living out here in Arizona, and one of their very first talks. They started hanging out with us at the Arizona chapter of Moufon and they brought their night vision when they did their first talk,

and this might have been like one of their first talks ever. If not their first talk ever. And we went to go skywatching and I was using one of the night vision goggles, looked up in the sky and I saw five lights that were in a group moving away from each other. And they look like satellites because they look that high. Anything that you know, moves in a straight, steady line at night and doesn't seem to alter its speed

or direction, I'll usually call a satellite because that's what satellites do. But these all started right in the same area and continued out in five day different directions. Really really weird. And as I'm watching that, I'm like, is anybody else watching this? And sure enough John Dover, when of the Navajo rangers, was also looking at it. So pretty cool. Those guys have become buddies of mine and I talked to them and hang out with them

often. But yeah, that was a really cool sighting. I if I would have had this psionics or aurorra pro device, I could have recorded that and then shown everybody what the heck is this weird thing that I saw. So that's what's really cool about this device. I definitely would recommend it to people. I don't know anybody who is not happy with this, and it's exciting to see this sighting that someone used one of those psionics and you can tell in the video just what a great image that you get. It's a

really cool device. So yeah, what the heck is that I do not know? Check it out? So what did I want to share with you all? At the end here this so you know, beat me up for it, But I agree with Sean ka Patrick that all of this rumor and hearsay, which in my experience never amounts to anything. And you've got to realize people that for twenty five odd years here, I've been writing articles where I deep dive into UFO cases and rumors in hearsay and the vast, vast

majority turns out to be nothing. And unfortunately, I've been a big low apologist, you know, a lot of my life, you know, because there were people upset with Robert Bigelow and his National Institute for Discovery Sciences, which is the group that then went on to run as app the government program that now everybody's all happy about, and then eventually David Gresh worked with I've known these guys for a long time and they make a lot of claims.

They believe a lot of things, just like a lot of my friends and colleagues you in this field. But they've never proven any of them. And unfortunately, I feel once their evidence has been shown, it's often a real letdown and it's not as explosives as they believe it to be. I don't think they're liars. I think they believe these things are going on. I think they believe that they've experienced some weird things. But there's a difference between

a story and proving something, and we've got to prove it. Enough with the stories. I'm tired of the stories. We really need to focus on getting results, getting data, and getting those receipts. So I've created this nonprofit called UAP Discovery, and you'll see here the purpose is. Our mission is to lead a global community of citizen sciences to contribute to the understanding of the unidentified anomalies phenomenon mystery and freely share their discoveries. So this is along

the lines of SETI or NASA. This is citizen science where we're going to go go out gather people to gather data like we're doing with Enigma, but doing it further analyzing that video or evidence amongst each other. But also figuring out what kind of devices you can see here a UAP data collection. What kind of devices do we need to gather the correct data to allow researchers and scientists to write papers to be able to convince the scientific community or any others

to demonstrate something unusual is going on. We recently had a ball lightning scientist. He can't prove that ball lightning is real, even though it most likely is and most people assume it to be real, but we don't know for sure and what is the nature of that phenomena. We need more data to understand that. We need more data to understand UAP. We can see here like people have been doing for decades, banging on the wall of the White

House or the Pentagon saying, give us information, give us information. Well, one, they haven't provided much inform. Two we don't even know if they have very much information. And what information they had have as very revelatory or is packaged in a way that scientists can use it to write white papers or to write papers to be able to then get that to scientific community. We can all figure this out together, like you're supposed to do with science.

That's why I've created UAP discovery, and that's what I'm going to be doing. The heart of UAP Discovery is going to be the forums. So I've built a forum. Feel free to go check it out and join that forum. In that forum, I'm going to be posting a lot of information, a lot of cases, a lot of these videos that I can't figure out, so we can discuss them and try to figure it out. There will be no conspiracy. There also will be no bashing of anyone, no

bashing of skeptics, no bashing of believers. We're going to be talking constructively about cases and focusing on the research and the and we're going to be very strict in this forum. If you can't be disciplined enough not to get in arguments with other people or not to bash you know, John Kirkpatrick or bash him Mussan, I guess Sam Oil believer, then you know this isn't a

forum for you. This is constructive conversation focused on figuring things out. The other thing that we're going to be doing is supporting students, educators, aviators, and first responders. What do I mean by that? Helping I get a lot of students coming to me. I want to write a paper. I want to encourage that, so I've got a lot of resources here on government documents and studies and government and scientific research papers, so students can come

here and write their papers. They can also join the forum and talk with people like you and I who can help them with getting information and writing their papers. Educators, there are a lot of educators who are now wanting to teach their students about UAP. To network those guys together so we can talk about curriculum and building curriculum and who's built, what's worked for who, so

we can have a network of these educators aviators. Ben Hansen has done a lot of work coordinating with aviators and getting information and showing them how to report their UAP and how to gather the data because it's really important, like we talked about with doctor Bittner, that you've got to gather that data quickly before it's gone in order to share it for your siting and then law enforcement.

I work with law enforcement currently. I helped build a group called the uappd uapdashpd dot com is where you can find them, and I'll have them and other law enforcement in here so they can get help. Some of our best cases come from law enforcement. Why who do people call when they see a UAP? They call the police, they call nine to one one, they

call first responders, and a lot of times those people roll. But what happens is mostly they don't know what to do, so they either don't do any thing, or they go out there and they gather information, but they don't know what to do with that information. We want to help them with gathering that information, getting it to the right people so it can be researched

and investigated. So this is all what we want to do, a space for a safe space for gathering data and focusing on figuring out what UAP are without having to rely on the government. And like I said, under resources, I've got a lot of information. So I've got research papers those are scientific or just research papers on this topic, tons of them in there, government documents or every agency out there that's released government documents, from Bluebook to

the CIA to FBI. We've got a lot of resources. There. Information about the NASCA UAP study team and the congressional hearing. So if you're like when did that hearing happen? Where can I watch the video? Where can I get a transcript? Where can I get the supplemental data that was provided in that congression hearing. I've got it all right here, so you can use a website for that. UAP Discovery dot org. It is a nonprofit Arizona company currently and our IRS five oh one C three is pending. So

I'm very excited about this project. I think it's about time. To me, it's like a setting like effort in order to focus people on the real science of this topic. And you know, other people always try to pull me into conspiracy this or advocacy that. You know what. There's a lot of organizations to do all of that kind of thing. There is no organization to do this sort of thing right now, So that's why I've created this

one. The close it would be, of course, the SEU, the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies, which I helped I was a founding member of and I've been a board member of and I still appreciate and support their work and I help to work very closely with them. What they've done is incredible. And if you want to write a research paper, that's where you go, and I'll network you with those people so they can help you write your paper. So we can all begin to understand all of this more together.

So I'm very excited about this effort. Uapdiscovery dot org. Anyway, thank you all so much for joining the show once again this week, and I've got more exciting interviews lined up. Just a lot going on, as you can see. But yeah, check out the website and go ahead and join the forum. It's brand news. I'm working bugs and kinks out, but we'll get it all worked out, and we'll make this a great community where we can all work together on the serious study of UAP. I'm confident we

can figure out much more about this phenomenon. I think we've got some very exciting days ahead, So thank you all very much for joining me. Speaking of exciting days ahead, I've got some exciting interviews scheduled, so stay tuned and we'll see you next time.