The Rojas Report Ep 1: Behind The Secret Pentagon UFO Program

So what are we here talking about. We're talking about behind the secret Pentagon UFO program. So this is a talk that I developed and I've been doing over the past few years. And the reason I've been doing that is to explain to people the nuances behind the a TIP organization. And it's really important to know because a lot of people are asking about, you know, they've got conspiratorial ideas about the release of UFO information and how this could be involved

and this and that. And I'm not saying, you know, any of your conspiracy theories are wrong. Likely they are, but they might not be. But in order to be educated about how that might work, you got to know who the players are. And this isn't you know, somebody, this Louise Alessandro guy coming out of nowhere and making all of these wild claims. There's an entire history here, and there's a whole lot of people involved here, and so that's why it's really important to understand. So let me

go ahead and share the PowerPoint that I've put together. Oh, I see your question. Now, why don't UFOs just land in public? Ask the UFO f liar? I don't know why, I mean, but actually that's not a dumb question. It's a very good question, and it's a very important question. And I'll answer it real quick before we get into this, because I think it's going to be important to think about this as we go forward, even in this presentation here, is that there's another party involved.

Everybody's like government disclosure. Government needs to tell us. This government needs to tell us that, well, there's another party here if we're being visited by someone else, that they could reveal themselves as well. Obviously whatever is visiting is keeping itself hidden. If there is somebody else visiting, and you know, they could reveal themselves as well, who knows what they're revealing to the

government. All right, so let me get up my presentation here. So here it is, Hi, Paul UFOs over the tipping Point, behind the secret Pentagon UFO program. This is an important concept all by itself, UFOs, over the tipping Point. We are in a brand new world, and I think some of you totally understand that, especially some of you that have been doing this for a long time. When I got involved with this, I was a journalism student broadcast journalism. But and I'm not in journal well,

I am in journalism now. That wasn't my degree. I finally ended up doing a degree in psychology, in particular industrial and organizational which is around essentially leadership, organizing people, kind of how people think when it comes to

like, you know, marketing stuff like that. And the thing that I found was that there was a lot of credible information about the topic, but it was completely made fun of. Right in the nineties, especially early two thousands, people just laughed about UFOs and that was a bit frustrating for me because there's a lot of credible information that was being ignored and there's no reason it shouldn't have been a mainstream item. We should be comfortable to talk about

things we're seeing in the sky that we can't identify. And it was completely surreal to me as a mofon UFO investigator, which I became when I called the FAA or I call the airport and I say, hey, you know, for instance, one of my first cases was this guy was just back from Iraq and he's used to reporting things in the sky that he can't identify, and they don't care. Nobody cares. Why wouldn't you care if there's something in commercial airspace and you don't know what it is, it's irrational not

to care. In this instance, they're being the irrational one, not the UFO guy. So that was my goal. Over the years, you know, it got treated better. But now ever since this New York Times article that started this whole thing and let's go take a look at it, that's what's next, you know, from December twenty seventeen, all of a sudden, UFOs are a more credible topic and it's okay to talk about them, and it's real. For me, it's a huge game changer because that was

my ultimate goal. In fact, I got to be honest. Part of my feelings about my hiatus that I was on for so long was that I reached my big goal. Now what you know, now, hopefully mainstream media, other credible, capable researchers, we'll look into this and they'll be able to discover some things. And I also was a little frustrated. And this is kind of my message to the UFO community and to the very people that I will be talking about in this presentation. Because it's a new world.

We can't walk around speculating about this and that and then get frustrated when people don't take it seriously. Because now we've got this threshold. Now there are people talking, there is stuff coming out. We need to be more careful about what we present. The difference between a jet fighter and several military witnesses coming out and talking about their case versus us sitting around speculating about a crash in you know, and what's that place in Arizona. It's one of the

crashes. I don't really buy, but anyway, the point is we can't really try to purport that in the public as much. We need to be more careful about that, especially the people that are in organization's UFO related organizations that are trying to be taken seriously and are purporting that they have credible information. Your credible ability level. We're now on a new level mainstream scientists SETI. You know, this is the level we're at. We have to act

like these scientific organizations, and we're completely justified in doing so. But that means we need to provide the hard data. And the hard data is out there, and this is the sort of thing that others are going to be doing. If you want to get stuck, you know, debating speculative stuff, have at it, you're going to be relegated to the UFO Nutter crowd. But if you want to be involved in actually making a difference, let's research and look for the real hard data and be careful. You know,

I really feel especially for these guys in these programs. You know, don't just say And I kind of challenged Louis Alazando on this. You know, he said there might be crash material out there. Don't say that. Prove it. You're not in a position to be able to speculate. You're in a position where people are looking for you to you for credible information. You have to be more careful about what you talk about. And we all need to be that way. I need to be that way. You know who

really needs to be that way. This guy named Lee Spiegel, who is a long time Oh he's in the chat room here, but you know, we all need to be careful that way. Highley, good to have you here. But let's get back to it. So everything changed right in December twenty seventeen with this story glowing Auroras and black money, the Pentagon mysterious UFO program. But how did this come about? And who are all the people in this story and related to it? We're going to come back to that.

But let's go back to kind of the beginning of how this story took place, and that starts with this gentleman, Tom DeLong. Tom DeLong, of course, is a rock star. He so the head dude for Blink one eight two, and now he kind of quit them because of UFO stuff we've found out, and he's still got a band called Angels and Airways. But he's running to the Stars, not just to the Stars Academy. That's a new thing. We'll get into that. But To the Stars was a

company he started years ago to do all of his media stuff. One of the media things he did was Strange Times And this is how we at Openminds dot tv first came to know Tom. He was doing this site with paranormal stories that he was writing, and he liked Openminds dot tv and he asked us, can I repost some of your stories? And so he would get a hold of us pretty much weekly or on a regular basis, saying, hey, can we do use this story? Can we use this story?

And we were cool with it as long as you link back to us, go for it. We all really liked him. He's a good guy, uh, and you know he was looking for something credible, but then he got and he started saying stuff like he's talking to these government insiders, he's talking to these NASA guys that, And then he started sharing his ideas well.

He had always shared his ideas about maybe aliens are coming here and there's a big battle and everything, and you know, I think he's an honest person, but it was like, you know, what are you talking about talking to NASA people and government people. Why would they talk to you when you have such weird ideas. But then we found out he was telling the truth, and in fact, we gave him an award at the UFO Congress

because of what happened next. And instead of just telling you what happened, let me play a video for you to show you why we did what we did. I did have this video ready before, but I don't now, so let me get that ready. I apologize for not having it ready. It's a great video. You're gonna love it some of you. Most of you have probably already seen it, but it's important in the context of what we're going to be talking about to watch it again because of the details.

And I'm gonna watch. Hopefully this works. I had to do something special to make that sure. The sound works on this video, so let me know if you cannot hear it while it plays. The twenty seventeen presidential campaign is finally over, and so are the mysterious leaks of emails posted by WikiLeaks of Hillary Clinton's campaign manager John Podesta. At openminds dot tv, we often cover the news of Podesta's interest in the UFO topic, an interest that was

reflected in his leaked emails in surprising ways. Perhaps one of the more shocking revelations from the Podesta emails is his involvement with rockstar Tom DeLong, who is seeking to expose a vast UFO cover up within the government. DeLong, the former frontman for the band Blink one eighty two and currently for the band Angels and Airwaves, says he based his recent fiction book, Secret Machines Book One,

Chasing Shadows, on information fed to him by government insiders. The book is about the government's decade long project to back engineer alien technology and hide it from the public. According to Rolling Stone, DeLong claims he was approved to say he used quote sources within the aerospace industry and the Department of Defense and NASA who approved him to say this, and who are his sources? Until the Podesta UFO WikiLeaks, we had no idea who these people were, if

they were really within the government, or if they existed at all. It turns out DeLong was having conversations with insiders, and some of the names of the people he was talking to are in the Podesta emails. In fact, Podesta invited them to a meeting. A Google hangout's invitation sent out on January twenty fourth for a meeting on January twenty fifth at ten thirty am, included Rob Weiss, executive vice president and general manager for Advanced Development Programs Skunkworks at

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. Skunkworks is the group that built Area fifty one at the behest of the CIA, and for decades has worked on developing top secret advanced aircraft. Major General William N. Mcassy, the commander of the US Air Force's research laboratory at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Wright Patterson has a rich history in UFO folklore, as it was the home of the Air Force's official UFO investigations from nineteen forty seven to nineteen seventy and the final attendee was retired

US Air Force Major General Michael Carey. So we found about the best part of that video. Tom DeLong comes on because we say hey, and we're giving you this award. Tom DeLong comes on and then says he accepts the award. One of the things that he said is that people got mad about, was that he says, I'm just like you, you know, I know everything. He didn't mean that he knows everything about UFOs. What he meant is, I know what you guys know. I researched this stuff like

you. And it was my feeling at the time he was just as you know, most of US UFO researchers. I know a lot of people got mad because they're known as UFO researchers, but we do it on our off time, so does Tom. But obviously you don't organize meetings with this level of people without spending a lot of time and effort into it. And he brought credible UFO information to these people and was massaging these people obviously to make

things happen. So on the one hand, the award was because he made this all happen, but it was also because there was at least in my mind, these people aren't going to come and meet with Tom and not something result from it. So something would result from it, I felt, so it was extraordinary. I thought it was a big deal. That's why I felt that he should receive that award and why we gave it to him. One other note that I think is really neat, and my friend Ben Hansen

found this. I of course had scoured those emails, especially for stuff that was pertinent, and one of those wiki leaks was from regarding UFOs was from Hillary Clinton's one of her major head staff people like her number, the one right under John Podesta, and it emailed out and they said, hey, did you know that Jimmy Kimmel wants to ask our candidate? I think they called it Hillary a UFO question. And the lady said, why why would

she he want to ask Hillary that? And they said, well, parent, Bill and John Podesta have a history in this, and they sent a couple links, and one of those links was to one of my Open Mind story on this topic on the background of Bill Clinton and John Podesta's UFO interests. Now, the reason I wrote this, I wrote this in the Obama era because it was about here's Obama's links to UFOs and those were, of

course, or that was John Podesta. So I gave that history, which is really ingrained of course with Bill Clinton, because he worked for Obama and he worked for Clinton, and it was during the Clinton years he worked with Clinton to try to get information. So let's get further into this. So I saw that video and I was like, whoa. You know, I

thought, holy moly, this is a big deal. Unfortunately, the majority of the UFO field, I guess I kind of get to do a little bit of I told you so in this talk, because the majority of the UFO field was not impressed. In fact, they were really really upset with me over the Tom DeLong award. And I took it on the chin. It wasn't only my decision. It was my idea, to be honest, but I think all of us were thinking that and everybody had to sign off

and it was unanimous. But I was like, fine, here's my idea, here's my decision. I stand by it. But I caught a lot of stuff. I caught so much heat from everywhere it was shocking to me. Instead of being excited or curious about how Tom DeLong got these meetings, everybody was so upset that we gave him some kind of award and that we did give him a word got some pressed too, which we didn't necessarily expect.

But then October twenty seventeen comes around and people were getting antsy because in Tom's address he said that he was doing some really crazy cool things and some amazing things are going to happen and you're going to know about it soon, and he said something like within thirty to sixty days. I think he told me that, and I wrote that in his story because I was asking him, when's it going to happen, when's it going to happen, when you're

going to get this stuff? And it never happened. Time went by, months went by, nothing was happening. Everybody's getting upset because nothing is happening, and I'm talking to Tom. Tom is getting really embarrassed. He's like, sorry, Alejandro, you know it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. Finally I get a call and he's like, get on signal, you know, which is this thing that the reporters use so your message is encrypted so you could talk and people can't hear you. So I get on it.

He's like, I'm doing amazing stuff. We're launching this big thing tomorrow. Can you look at some of this media material and let me know what you think. So I did gave him some advice, especially to get all the hoax you know, videos that he had in there out. He did take them all out except for one. He had a lot too. He had like a dozen in there that were videos I knew were fake. And you all may know, some of you will know. He kept one fake

went in there because so many people have given him junk about that. And this is what he came up with. This group of guys and this new organization called to the Stars of Arts, to the Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences, and what they were supposedly going to do is look into UFO stuff. And the group of people is really incredible. Some of these people we already knew. And I'll go over it really quickly because I know many of you are very familiar with the group. But one of them on the far

right, and i'll go from the far right to the left. On the far right, we have Jim Simmavan. He was impressive because he had twenty five years as an operations officer for Central Intelligence. This essentially whoa you know, I hadn't heard of him before this. Luckily I got to talk to him actually during the inception of To the Stars. Very impressive. In fact, I think Lee Spiegel and you can tell us Lee if you're still in the chat, interviewed him. I know a couple others have, but really

great guy, really good guy. Then to his left is how put Off, and let me tell you a little bit about how. We'll talk more about How in his history too, and a little bit here. But he's got fifty years experience as a research scientist at General Electric, the NSA, Stanford University, SRI. He's worked with NASA, the Department of Defense, and various intelligence communities. Next to him is another really important person. So one of the people that Tom DeLong had talked to was a mister Wise,

who was part of Lockheed's Skunkworks Lockeed. Skunkwork is an organization that started Area fifty one. They were tasked by the CIA to go seek out and build the secret facility, which they did and they've continued to have a large presence there. So this is a guy who is the director for integrated Systems at Lockheed Martin Aeroniomics Company, skunk Works. This is a guy who works for skunk Works, who the people who test this stuff at an area fifty one.

Holy moly. So then next to him is this little guy, Luise Elizondo. What the heck? And this guy is another career counterintelligence guy, and he said that he was also in this headed up a program to investigate UFOs. I'm going to get back to that in just a second. And then this last guy, Steve Justice, who I know someone in the chat I won't say, who has a crush on a no. Li says he talked to Jim a couple of times, but he didn't get to interview him.

But this last guy here is Chris Mellon. And Chris Mellon is a very very important person. He has twenty years in the federal government under Clinton and Bush. He's the former Minority Staff director of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. He is a private equity investor, and he's the chairman of the Science Committee at Carnegie Museum of Natural History. And this is a guy who's part of the family of the Melon Banks. You know, some of you

will be familiar with that. Some of you might have Mellon on your credit card. This is a big time company. These are you know, a big time family. So this is a very well connected person. So getting back to this guy who says he worked on UFO projects. When I saw this in October twenty seventeen, and I know some of you probably felt the same, it was like, what I mean. As a UFO researcher and

journalist, I've void I've contacted the Air Force multiple times. Every time, practically every time, ninety percent of the time, you're told we don't care about UFOs. In fact, they would give us information about you know, they would typically send us this US Air Force fact sheet that is still up there at the National Archives that says just that we're done with UFOs. We did that in the past, we stopped doing that till in nineteen sixty nine,

you know, this complete stone wall. But this guy says that he worked on a UFO investigation project. What so that was a big deal. Soon after this happened, Leslie Kane was also in the know on this, and she wrote an article for the Huffington Post. Then I actually interviewed her at this time and we were I was like, what's with this guy?

And She's like, I don't know, and so we were really shocked, and it didn't seem like a lot of people in the UFO community cared, like, you know when this news came out, here's a prototoe, Well, this is an example of something they want to do, which they still want to do, which is to develop technologies based off of what have observed when it comes to UFOs, And that was an image that they had released. But I was like, WHOA Like this shocked kitty cat. But the

UFO community, man, there's some tough cookies. They were like, big deal. And I get it when you're talking about Tom DeLong, I mean, I think that was part of the issue. I get it how you could doubt him because he's a rock star. But the credentials for all of those people is remarkable. And not only that, people like Hew put off. We've known him for a very long time. He's been a UFO investigator and a scientist working in this arena. He's worked for Bob Bigelow all the

way back with the National Institute of Discovery Sciences. He's worked with of course with Big Low Aerospace, the BASS Project, and going even further back. If you knew anything about remote viewing, which probably many of you are interested in. He ran that although he started that way back when, so how someone we knew, how someone that some of us interacted with, so we

knew he went way back. Also Chris Mellan, Chris Leslie Kane had written an article about Chris Mellon a year or so prior to this all happening. He joined that UFO data group if you all remember that. Nothing really came of it, but they were a group that was going to try to gather more UFO information. He was obviously someone that was interested in the topic. So it's not like everybody came out of nowhere, but many of them had. Who are these guys? Nothing really hit the fan, so to speak.

In fact, the news might have gone unnoticed. There are a few stories, but there really wasn't much going on regarding all of this, surprisingly until this big Boy, The New York Times article that exposed everything, written by Leslie Kane, Ralph Blumenthal, and Helene Cooper, and I know this through interviews, but Leslie Kane was able to work with Ralph Blumenthal, both of whom have written for The New York Times, and convince them to write

the story. They said they wanted Helene Cooper on with them because she was the Pentagon. That was her beat. She wrote about the Pentagon, so to make it true, to make sure that you know, everything was correct. And the other benefit too with having someone like Cooper on that people would it wasn't just a fact check and make sure the other UFO weirdos weren't doing

something weird. She's the one who's going to have all the sources, so she's the one who's going to be at the Pentagon talking to people all day every day, so she will know who to talk to in there, not just to verify information, but to get them on the record. Or they did have many unnamed sources to also verify, you know, and get people on the record that yeah, yeah that's real. Well but I'm not going to go on the record on that. So it served many purposes to have

her on there. So they all wrote this story revealing everything that was going on with this program. The other thing that came out was this Washington Post story on it the same day, and also this one from Brian Bender, who I'm going to interview on Friday. Brian Bender works for Politico. But

here's something you probably didn't know unless you heard my interview with Brian. He revealed something that was pretty important, and that is that Luise Elizondo and Chris Mellan were shopping this story for a period of time before the articles came out. So the way Brian puts it is that they came to him, no doubt they were already working with Leslie Kane because that's who Chris Mellon works with. But Leslie Kane can only get stories pretty much anytime she wants on Huffington

Post. Huffington Post is just not as big of a deal as of course Politico or other Megage or other news outlets. So they had political on the line, so they're like, Okay, you know, here's what we're doing. We want to write a story on it. Brian said, yeah, this looks interesting. I'll go talk to my sources and verify it. He did. He talked to many people on the inside that told him, yeah, Harry Reid wanted to start this program. We're like, whatever, just

I don't want nothing to do with it. It was essentially the gist of what many of his insiders were telling him. So we verified this was real, and he also knew about Chris Mellon and his credibility, so that also was a big help. But essentially, Brian says, they cut him off. They talked to him for a while, but they cut him off, and he knows now it was because they got a bigger fish, Leslie Kane, when she was able to confirm the New York Times was going to run

the story, they didn't need Politico anymore. Now, Brian Bender's not disappointed about that, or he holds no grudge towards him at all. He's like, that's business. That's the way it goes. He doesn't blame them whatsoever for going with the bigger fish. And you know, it's not like he was jumping on top of it and like this is mine and I got to get this out now. He was kind of sitting on it and watching how

things develop. He admits that one she caught when that caught the word that New York Times was about to post their story, he immediately called up his editor and like, we have to post our story now. So they did and got that out there. This is interesting for a couple reasons, and actually we'll get into that here. I'm going to return to this slide. But this slide is why I want to talk about it. It's a transition. So here's lou Elizondo. He's the guy who ran this Pentagon program.

We found out what it was called a TIP Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. Harry Reid was the guy that started it. The New York Times article makes a lot of claims, and people have questioned these claims, but the New York Times doesn't mess around. They verify it like crazy. And this story has withstood the test of time, despite the Pentagon Press and many others trying to tear down the facts that they present, they the facts have held up.

One of those facts being that you know that Harry Reid was contacted by a DIA agent who had talked with Robert Bigelow and they had gotten together and decided they wanted Harry Reid to start this program, to try to talk him into it, and Harry Reid said, yes. Harry Reid was in Las Vegas, Nevada. Heu you know that was his state where he was a

senator of his Nevada. He knew Robert Bigelow already, and now we know that he was friendly with Bigelow and they had an interest in the paranormal so much so that Harry Reid would come to their meetings sometimes with Bigelow and get updated on the paranormal stuff they were working on. So they already had that friendship and shared interest. And so Harry Reid's the one who started this.

But here's what I'm going back to regarding the New York Times and the political story that one, just in case you forgot that, Chris Mellen in this story, Loue Alezando said he tried to get this information up the ladder. He even knew Jim Mattis, the Secretary of Defense who he worked for. Alessando worked in the OSD, the office for the Secretary of Defense. He knew Jim Maddis, but he couldn't talk to him about UFOs because he wasn't

given permission to. And you do need permission to share any information with high level people. Plausible deniability is the main reason. If they don't want their person to have this information, then they can deny it. So, for instance, if someone caught wind of this program, they could have gone to Jim Maddis and said, hey, what's going on with you guys investigating UFOs? And Jim Maddis could have said I don't know anything about us investigating UFOs,

and he wouldn't have been lying. So Lou could not get this up there, and they didn't find it important enough. It seems that Chris Mellan helped him to try to get it up the ladder. Chris has said this, and so they tried to get this information to those upper levels and it didn't work. So they decided let's go to the press. And there's a whole strategy behind what they did, and we'll get into this because this is really important too, all of this being information I haven't really shared before.

But so there was this whole plan to try to get this out there that was being worked on that culminated in this New York Times story and more, and we'll get into that. But what else was in that story. Well, like we just saw, there were a couple of the videos for the first time in the New York Times story. Some people might say, wait a second, the DoD said they just released the those videos a few weeks

ago. No, not really. These videos came out in the New York Times and they even addressed it that Lu said he went through the proper protocols to get these released, so they're already out there. In fact, we know now that the Air Force saw these videos out and did an investigation. I think it's Roger Gassel or maybe even John Greenwald who got this information. But the Air Force investigated, Oh no, I think it might have been

Tim McMillan. But they investigated were those videos classified? Was classified information shared when it shouldn't have been? But in these Air Force documents their conclusion was, and they state this, and this is important because the DoD had been denying this point that a tip did indeed exist, that Loue Elizondo was in charge of it, and that they were investigating UFOs. They're the ones to release these videos. Thing in it was classified, nor did it they have

any concern about the release of those videos. So the Air Force investigated confirmed all of that, some of which is being denied by the DoD to this day. Goofballs. So these videos came out in the New York Times. One of them was related to the nimits in her incident. I know many of you are aware of it, but just in a nutshell for any viewers who don't know about it, this is the case that happened in two thousand and five, the uss nimens Strike Force off the coast of San Diego.

While they're doing training exercises, we're catching objects on radar that were doing weird things like you know, flow to hovering at twenty five thousand feet and then hitting the deck as they say it so flying to essentially ground level very quickly, doing very weird things. During the training, Kevin Day, the radar supervisor, was able to get them to scram or have a couple jets that were training to go find out take a look at one of these objects.

The pilots that were the ones that went to go look, one of them was Commander David Fraverer, essentially the highest ranking pilot in the entire strike group. He went there with his wingman or wing woman in this case wing person, and they went They saw some water that was bubbling. He said, it almost looked like something had recently submerged. Something was going on like that. He went lower to get a closer look. He saw this forty foot

large white tic tac shaped object. He said, when he went towards it, it moved so it seemed to see him because it changed its position to be aligned with him. He tried to kind of chase it, and it was moving away from him. He tried to get in front of it and boom, it took off at an incredible speed. It then went to the cap point it's called, and this is a random meetup point that it's chosen. Most of the people don't even know. It's programmed into their jets computers

to go to this rendezvous meet up point. And you're talking about miles and miles and miles of water out there. So for this object to appear on radar in an area that was known to them in all of that space, the odds are pretty pretty low. So very interesting point there. So Fraver comes back, tells his story, I chased this freaking thing. I don't know what the hell it was. And one of the other pilots says, I'm gonna go get video. I'm gonna get video on my infrared camera,

and yeah, right, you know, but he did. He did get a video, and that's one of these videos. The other video that was in the New York Times was from a later incident in twenty well, I think now we know it's twenty fourteen. The dates a little questionable whether it was thirteen, fourteen or fifteen right now, to be honest. In fact, it's looking like it's thirteen according to the latest information. And this is one of Leslie Kane's latest stories in the New York Times where she wrote about

it. Essentially, the Navy put out some UFO files and one of those files, which we didn't all really know, is related to this view or this sighting. She had told me that personally, and I only released that on Twitter, so I think people don't realize that. But anyway, that's what these videos were from. See guys, okay, Lou exercises good restraints. Someone said, yes, he does. So the other person involved was Bigelow, Like I had said, Bigelow Aerospace. So Robert Bigelow, Nevada

real estate guy. That's how he made all of his money in real estate. This is a funny story. So in fact, I'm going to move forward here. I'll come back to that building. But Robert Bigelow was a real estate mogul, had a bunch of money that he made in real estate, and then decided he wanted to get into a space program. Like Elon Musk. He wanted to create a space program. So what did he do.

He went and started talking to NASA people. One guy said, Hey, we've got a program here that I believe is really important and we're looking for people to fund it. And so Robert Bigelow's that all go to the meeting. He goes to the meeting, and you know, we've got representatives from large corporations, Boeing, who knows who else, and they're asking for them, Hey, help us with this project, help us fund this program. And the program was to build take space balloons, but these are inflatable

habitats. So it makes a lot of sense. When you're launching a rocket to go to the moon or into space, you only have a limited amount of space and you only have a limited capacity of weight that you can take. So the lighter and smaller you're whatever you're taking up there is better. And so he devised, or these people had devise this idea of making these habitats or spaces for people to work and live in inflatable, so they'd be

tiny in the rocket and can expand and be larger. It seems like a great idea, and actually a lot of people over the last few years have thought it was an excellent idea. Well, nobody wanted to fund the program, so Robert Bigelow says, I'll buy it, and he bought the friggin whole entire program. But I'm talking like this is a guy showing up buy

himself out of nowhere and saying I'll buy it. So immediately he had to start big low aerospace, build a building, which is the building we are just looking at here, hire people to do all of this, and that's what he did. He hired a bunch of people, built this building, made his little alien logo there and put his alien logo on there, and started a space company. On the bottom left is a model of one of the moon bases that he wants to build, and he had some conversations with

NASA about doing building one of those. And I can tell you this, he's like a big deal with NASA. I've visited quite a few NASA facilities, Johnson, others, and most of them have some sort of big low display, including and I think it's it's the one in Alabama that has this big display that you see right here or something similar to it. So yeah, he's he's kind of a big deal with him. And he even launched that photo right there is one of his objects, one of his you know,

inflatable habitats on the internationals Space Station. It's still there right now. So sorry, I got a text. If I don't text my honey when she sends me a message, she gets to really freaked out and I'll be in big trouble. So I apologize. I had to pause. I wouldn't pause this for anything but that because I don't want to get in trouble. But yeah, that is on the International Space Station right now. Now. This was a prototype, but it's something that has worked. They've determined,

yeah, this scene works great. It inflated. They use it for storage. Now it's something that they think was cool. But Bigelow's also into UFOs and aliens. He had the National Institute of Discovery Sciences, which was an

organization he funded and created in order to investigate the paranormal. And in the bottom right hand corner here we see an interview that he had with sixty Minutes where he told her there Lara Laura I think is her name, and you know, she said, well, you're not afraid to share this kind of stuff. He's like no, and he even said, you know, their aliens are here and she said, well, you're not afraid to say that, and he's like, no, I could give a damn. You know

that it was something very similar. I could give a damn that, he said. So that's Robert Bigelow. We're going to get more into Robert Bigelow too, So all of these people, because there's some really important connections between all of these people. But here are some of the facts that we're in. That New York Times story that a TIP was named the Advanced Aerospace Threat

Identification Program. It ran from two thousand and seven to twenty twelve. According to the DoD, Elizondo said, no, this program still exists to this day. There are people running it now that took over for me. The New York Times kind of left the story up. Well, Alessando says this, but the DoD says this, So that was something that was in question

at the time. However, we do know, and in fact, just recently, and we'll get into this in this latest news that just happened, it has been confirmed that he was correct that that organization still does exist. I know there's at least one friend of mine that's watching who has Karen's phone, and Mrckinnie, you tell her I'm busy right now. She is persistent, but yeah, so Alessando says it still continues, which has been confirmed.

Pretty Much everything Alexando said has been confirmed, even though many people called him a liar. In the upper right, there were the two and frayed videos from the jet Fighter that was released. Read and two other senators sponsored the funding. So I should say it wasn't Read by himself that got the program created. He actually went across the aisle, as they say, he's a Democrat. He went to a couple of Republicans who helped him start this

program. And there was this claim too that Bigelow's building was modified to hold material from a UFO that has turned out actually to be false now they think about it. There was a false statement. I guess the building modification didn't necessarily have anything to do with the material, but they did have material they thought could possibly be or at least supposedly was from a UFO incident that they've been investigating. And we've heard some about that, but not a whole lot,

to be honest. Of course, this story became huge. It was all over the place, and fortunately David Fraber was going out into the media to talk about it all over the place. Loue Elizondo too, and stories like this were coming out. And here's where I'm talking about. The tipping point had happened now, just like the Washington Post says, UFOs are suddenly a serious news story and you can thank the guy from Blink one eighty two

for that. And of course this story was written in May thirtieth. It doesn't say the year, but I know it was a year after a much better story. Look at that December twenty seventeen. This is the day after Tom announced its group. Howard Rockstar facilitated this disclosure of the DoD's UFO secrets written by Aljantro Rojas. So I scooped the Washington Post a year before that, But yeah, I mean if Tom wouldn't have so, Lou was working on getting the story out, but Tom was kind of a vehicle to do

that. Tom was starting his organization with these guys, and so it was kind of a perfect storm situation where they can all do this together and make this happen. In fact, that's what delayed Tom. They wanted to try to coordinate this with The New York Times coming out with the story as closely as possible, and that's why Tom was delayed so much, and that's why he couldn't start his group thirty to sixty days after the UFO Congress, like he told us he was gonna do. He thought that at the time.

But then they're like, hey, let's hold up so we can release our info. Then the New York Times story comes out and boom, we're looking like some cool dudes, which they did. They changed everything, and that's when finally people were like, all right, Alejandro, I guess you're not such a butt head after all. I had it right. I don't know, why do people doubt me? Why do people doubt me? I got a lot of heat too, as people know over the years and even after

this, I got heat. And we'll get into that. Also, because a lot of people were arguing those points, I better tell her I'm gonna get more trouble. I am doing a live stream. I do a lot of live streams. In fact, I did one just a little earlier with Bryce Zabel on Den of Geek. So go check that out when you have a chance. But here are the major players, A lot of the names that are out there. Let's start in the upper right. This is a name that many of us know, George Knapp, Klas Las Vegas I Team.

George Knapp is probably well in all of this. He's been one of the most important people in shuttling information out to the public because he's very well connected. He has known Bob Bigelow for many, many years. He's also investigated Area fifty one. You know his actually Klas is responsible for I was going to say, putting Area fifty one on the map even before for the

whole alien thing. They were the first ones to catch win of this and interview engineers and some of the weirdness and super secretiveness going on out there. And then in the late eighties, of course that's when this guy Bob Lazar comes and says, hey, I worked out there Beck engineering alien spacecraft. George really picked up that story and that made Area fifty one famous. So is at the same time the most famous and the most secretive base both and

that's because George Napp. But George Napp knew all of these major players and was working with them, so he knew where to go to get that information. He knew Harry Reid of course as an investment, as a journalist in Nevada. He would have had to talk to him and work with their office. So that's what makes George really important. And we'll talk more about him and just a little bit. But here's the other guy, doctor hal put

Off. Now I had mentioned him before, but here's the point. Doctor put Off worked with Bigelow, but he also worked with the Stanford Research Institute creating the remote viewing program. Why is that important. It's important because this is a gentleman, a scientist who has always been into fringe sciences and trying to push them forward as something credible that we need to look into. When it came to remote viewing, he believed in the abilities of an alleged psychic,

Ingo Swan. They worked together, they studied him, him and his colleague Russell targ and they figured one of the things that Ingo could do is be able to kind of close his eyes and think about a place and see some stuff that he shouldn't be able to know that he was able to go there in his mind. It seemed somehow Ingo felt that he could teach others how to do this. So they came up with protocols and they gave it a term that is more scientific, you know, more stant remote viewing.

And they developed this into essentially a product that they sold the government that they could do this remote viewing. This program, this remote viewing program lasted for a very long time, and like the remote viewers will tell you, they were busy with law enforcement and different agencies coming to them to remote view stuff. Now, I've interviewed Joe McGonagall, who is allegedly the best remote viewer at that time in that program, and he was only twenty percent accurate.

This should give you pause when you're listening to people who say the remote viewers the best are about twenty percent accurate. So why was the program such a big deal? I asked, and why were people coming to you? And he said this, which makes a lot of sense. If you're a law enforcement person and you're sitting on a cold case, twenty percent is better than zero percent because you've gone nowhere, your case has gone cold, you don't

know where to look. Go to a remote viewer. They can hopefully give you some clues, and you know, at least you got a twenty percent chance of solving this case rather than zero. So that was what was really important. So how put Off has been doing this for a very long time. Then he goes to work for Bigelow, and then and he becomes part of this project. And so he's been working at this and successful now over the years. The bottom right you see the National Institute of Discovery Sciences,

which I mentioned before, which was the original Robert Bigelow organization. Now to the bottom left. This is kind of interesting. When I first started doing this talk, this was more controversial what I'm going about to tell you than it is now because more information has come out. But I am one of the few people that was in many of the meetings not to create this relationship, but to implement the relationship, and that is a relationship between Big Low

Aerospace and the Mutual UFO network. It was a short, I think ten month period where Bigelow was going to give fund movefund to do quick investigations, to be able to fund them, to actually investigate, have people who are paid full time boots that can get boots on the ground quickly, have the equipment, and then he would do the research should there be any research to be done. Now, at the time, we thought this relationship was just

with Big Low Aerospace. Little did we know and this was two thousand and nine. Little did we know that this was funded by the government and by the Pentagon. This was part of a tip because big Low was the one hired. Big Low Aerospace was hired to essentially run the a tip investigations in

research. And to me, it makes per perfect sense. If I got a million dollars or twenty million dollars and I'm told go for it, you can investigate UFOs, one of the first things I'd probably do is go to move on and say, hey, guys, you already have this network and everything. Let's utilize that to see what we can do. It didn't work out, and I'll share you my perspective as to why. But I think

to me that makes perfect sense. Now. Some of the criticisms where that Bigelow was getting information that no one else was getting, that's not really true. There's a lot of transparency, especially at that time. At that time, the database for the field investigators was very new. If you had a field investigator log and you could see everything, and it doesn't take much.

You don't even have to meet anybody to become a field investigator. You buy the book, you study it, you take a test, boom you've got your login and you've got access. So everybody had access to everything. So people saying, oh, big lutics, No, he'd had as much access as we all have. Not only that, people were like, oh, but those cases they looked at were secret. No, I've written stories about them. In fact, I was going to say, you can find them

on the Open Mind's TV website, but it's down right now. Hopefully I'll have it up tomorrow or the next day. But the Open Mind's TV I printed the best cases and this is I work with the guy in charge of this team, the Star team, Richard Lang, to write those stories, and you know, I work with them closely during this whole period of time. And so I was given and I didn't. I wasn't given any special Some people said, why did you guys give all the handro all this information?

Well, because I asked, and they would have given it to anybody that asked. And I was even told, well, you know, some people might be concerned if you write about these because they might think we're giving you special access. And I'm like, are you like, if someone else called, would you give them the infhone? They're like, yeah, of course we would. So I wasn't given none of us were given special access to anything. He wasn't buying the files to go hide them off or anything.

There's a lot of at least transparency as far as the move On files and the move On data and information. Bigelow has always been fairly secretive, There's no doubt about that, and they rarely do share much of their findings and they don't have a lot of good pr to be honest. But why did it break down? My take on that we at mofon were a volunteer

organization. There were cases where Bigelow's like, get some boots on the ground, we need people out here now, and the closest person was one hundred miles away and they couldn't get there till Tuesday, their next day off, which is five six days away. That's the nature of move On. It's a volunteer organization where everybody's trying their best when they have time to do it,

when they don't have to. You know, they're not getting calls from their honey when they're to work the to do list, you know, when they're not taking care of their kids, when they're not working on a hobby, working out at the gym, whatever else we all got in our lives. When we have time, we work on it. And as many of you probably agree, it's hard to find time in your life for different things like your hobbies and stuff. So that's really at the root of the breakdown.

It wasn't a professional corporate environment. This was a hobbyist type of thing, and I know we all take it more seriously than the hobby, but it's in that group more so than an engineering research organization or a law enforcement organization. And so there were breakdowns, and there was also disagreements over money and things like that between the state or the international director James carry On, who was very good, I felt, but eventually that led to fights where

Carrion left and the whole program broke down. Now on the far left, you see Harry Reid. We've already talked about him, but like I said, he had been friends with big Low, so he was getting information about all of this. And then doctor coolem Kellahar, who you see up in the upper left. He's also important because he's been the head scientist for all the paranormal stuff for Robert Bigelow. And we'll talk more about him in a second too. Let me get back here. See if there's questions, Oh,

somebody, Carl Anderson's talking about remote viewing. Right. He also said, answer her not worth dying for? Well, probably right, I'm gonna risk it, okay. George Knapp, George NAP's really important. He's important to this story because he's released the most important data post the New York Times, I think, not all of it, but the vast majority. He's an award winning journalist. He's got like a couple dozen awards, tons of awards. He's the guy, like I said, who made Area fifty one

famous. He also wrote a book with doctor Kella harr and I thought I had it listed there, but it's The Hunt for the skin Walker. So one of the things that Bigelow researched was this ranch. You guys probably all know this in Utah that allegedly has a bunch of paranormal but there will be some people watching this who don't know. That's why I'll review it. And you know, there's supposedly a lot of paranormal stuff going on there. We'll

talk some more about that in a little bit. And so him and keller Hard wrote a book about it. Some of the breaking news, the USS Nimitz leaked one of the documents that I think is extremely important that really doesn't get enough press. And if you're not aware of this document, you really need to download it and keep it on hand, because it is a document that is a summary of the Nimits encounter. And according to everybody assumed,

oh, it had to be somebody's in Bigelow's organization. No. George Knapp said it was a military document. It doesn't look like typical military, but that's what he claimed. Luis Alsondo has told me that it is it was written by the military for the military, that it wasn't bats and that's the

only description he's given me is by the military for the military. Why is it incredible because it not only outlines the what had happened with witness accounts and many witnesses, to radar people, jet fighter pilots, all of these people, but it also goes on to speculate. It says there was a submarine

in the water. The sub did not detect anything in the water like what David Faber saw under the UFO, but it also speculates that this could have been an object that submerged into the water that the tic TAC came out of that's possible. I can't remember what else, but it's got some really interesting speculation in there. George Knapp also told us about how Harry Reid fought for funding. He had to. It was a really hard time to get the

project. He also said the Pentagon project studied more than just ufbo's So I think that's what we're getting into now. Yeah, it is so and the Pentagon so all of these things. What does it mean fought for funding Pentagon project. Here's what it means. So this is what people still don't A lot of people still don't get. George Knapp revealed that it wasn't that twenty million dollars that The New York Times talked about to go to a tip was

not just for a tip. It was actually to go towards this company called the or this program that was called the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Program AWSAP, and it ran from two thousand and seven to twenty eleven. That's what the program was slated for. And here's the wild stuff. Do I have a slide for the wild stuff? Not really, we'll get into it. So I'll just explain it to you. Because this is good. Some of you may know this, especially if you've written read my articles, because I try

to highlight this in several different articles. But the first program, the program to get the twenty million dollars, was AWSAP. How did this get started? Well, we don't have the full story. Here's the full story that George Knapp was able to reveal, and I think he revealed a lot of this for the first time in my interview with him on Open Minds Radio. In fact, I was in at a conference at Devil's Tower in the lobby. I think Lee Spiegel was there and I was in the lobby doing this

interview. So it was actually the Skinwalker Ranch that prompted the creation of this program, and it was much more than just UFOs. It was regarding all practically every paranormal phenomena. So how it started is that DIA agent that was talked about in the New York Times article. He didn't just visit with Bigelow. He actually said, Hey, I want to go visit the Biglow the Skinwalker Ranch. How did he know about it? So the Skinwalker Ranch was

purchased in the nineties by Robert Bigelow and they began their investigations. I'll talk a little bit more about some of the rumors and stuff about the Skinwalker. Well, I guess because I have some pictures here. So if you don't know about Skinwalker, you've got to read the book Hunt for the Skinwalker. That's what it looks like with coin Killerhart and George Knapp. There's also been a documentary out called Hunt for the Skinwalker by Jeremy Corbel. But some of

the weirdness ads happened there. For instance, this is a pin. A lot of people know this story. I know a lot of you know it. But there was just lots of weird stuff that would happen. So they had, for instance, these giant wolves that would come around. There was a time where this giant wolf came around and they're petting it like that's what they called it. They said it was humongous and they were petting this thing. But then it went over and I think it was to these rails and

they grabbed one of their cabs heads. So they were freaked out. They tried to get it to stop. They're hitting it, it wouldn't stop. They start shooting it with the gun. It doesn't flinch. They take out a larger gun and shoot it. A piece of flesh goes flying off, and finally this thing's like eh and walks away. They follow it, and they follow it to there was no blood, and they follow it to where princes disappeared. It was gone. They don't know what happened to this thing,

but they would see these things in the distance. They had cattle mutilations. They had, you know, in this pin. They had just boughten a bunch of huge bulls and they were you know, in their their pin there, and the ranchers went away and came back and the bulls were gone. They're freaked out because they spent a lot of money to buy them, and they the rancher goes over to look to see if you can figure out

what happened, and it turned. He opens the door, not this one, because that one it was a different at the door on the left here or now. The door in the left is the one that's closed. It's the one that has that thing in front of it. He looks in the door and they're all in there, and they're completely silent, but they get startled by him looking in there, and they push their way out. They break the stuff down like I guess they destroyed a bunch of stuff and it

was just this crazy thing. And in the video you could see it wouldn't be easier for them to get up there, but they saw balls of light. In fact, this is what finally did it in for the family. They're dogs who of course everybody loves their dogs, but they were really afraid for them, so they'd bring them in at night because so much weird stuff was happening. Well, one time they saw these orbs floating around the dogs chase them. They heard a weird noise like a yelp, but they didn't

venture out at night, so they had to wait the next day. During the light. They go out there and they find like these grease spots and they never see their dogs again. They feel like maybe they're dogs were destroyed or something, so they're done. At this point, they sell it to the Bigelow and the rest is history. So a lot of weird stuff going on here, but during these investigations, Bigelow didn't want anybody sharing it.

Even though George Knapp was aware of what was going on, he was not allowed to write or share that information at all, but he was allowed to film, so he would film in order to do news pieces on the Skinwalker Ranch, but Bigelow would not let him do it. So in this documentary right here, Hunt for the Skinwalker, you actually get to see some of that footage that George Knapp had filmed way back in the day. Finally,

in around two thousand and two, the paranormal phenomena had subsided. There wasn't much going on, so finally at this point George Knapp is allowed to write this book with Colm Kallahar. It becomes huge and just as big Low feared, a bunch of people try to come to the Skinwalker Ranch. That's why he didn't want any publicity, and it got fairly famous, so he didn't want that to happen. But one of the people who read the book was this DIA agent and he actually said, I want to come visit the ranch.

So he does. They allow him, and they didn't allow many people, but they allowed this DIA Defense Intelligence Agency officer to come do that. Well. Allegedly, this officer had his own paranormal experience right from the get go, with the first day that he got there, which is rare because some people have been there for a long time have not had their own paranormal experience, and so he's really freaked out by this paranormal experience. He didn't

share what that experience was, but now it's out there. But essentially he could see only at his vantage point, some kind of elliptical kind of a infinity, kind of eight symbol type of thing that somehow morphed And I don't know the full story, to be honest, but it really shocked him and he was really an important personal experience. So he went to Harry Reid. He said, I had a paranormal experience out there. I know, you know, paranormal stuff is going on out there, Harry Reid, we need

to investigate as the United States government. Harry Reid said, yeah, you're right, let's do this. So they started the project to investigate all the paranormal. However, they ran into trouble very very quickly, and this is why Harry Reid had to struggle to protect it and everything which was it was the religious organizations. So there are very religious people in the government. We know this, you know, you hear from some of the evangelicals and stuff

that are in there, but they don't like the paranormal. They feel it's from the devil. So they are so influential that they got this program killed as soon as it started. Essentially, so what happened was that they had seen that the Christians, the Evangelicals were not going to put up with a paranormal research organization. It just wasn't going to happen. They saw they were going to get squashed. Incidentally, this is what happened to how put Off's

remote viewing program. It got squashed because of religious fundamentalists. They didn't want the remote viewing to have a budget, and they got it squashed. That's why it stopped, not because people weren't finding it useful or getting results. It was a religious faction. So here they are back at it again. How put Off and others are doing more of their crazy devil stuff. We got to shut it down, and so they did see that, well,

maybe we can spin off a subset of our organization. We'll call it a TIP, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, and we'll just look at military UFO cases. Hopefully they'll leave us alone if we do that, because the rest is going to die on the vine, and it did. They were exactly right when they did separate this a TIP group they brought in Lou Alizondo. Lou Alezondo ran this program. In fact, the program was in the DIA, he moved it over to OSD where he was and so that's what

a tip was. I asked Leslie Kane, why didn't you cover that in the New York Times article? And she said, well, we interviewed Lou Alezondo. He didn't tell us about that. He only told us about a tip, and that makes sense. I asked Lou, is that true? And Lou said, yeah, all I knew was a tip. I wasn't part of that earlier stuff. I was part of a tip. So I

just told her about a tip and that's what they've ran with. So there's the true paranormal history of this organization that not a lot of people know about. That was how it became from the beginning. Some of the people involved with the project. This is just a video from Colonel John Alexander. He helped Bigelow establish NIDS and we have actually our most watched video is Colonel Alexander talking about some of his experienced experiences at the Skinwalker ranch. So you can

go check out our Open Minds TV video. But there's another gentleman Oh, here's the case. He talked about where these poles. They had this security video out there, and you know, something was ripping the cameras off the poles, and they even had a camera looking at the pole and they couldn't figure out what the heck was going on. But doctor Davis, this is the next part that we'll talk about. Doctor Davis is one of the NIDS guys, and he's also part of os APP. He's important and for many

reasons. Right now you probably hear about him a lot, especially with this alleged meeting he had with an Admiral Wilson that some UFO people are talking about quite a bit. But he supposedly is like a magnet for the paranormal. He had a lot of the paranormal experiences. In fact, he says, for instance, one of the most famous ones, he was up on a ridge with another researcher. He had like these binoculars and he looks down into the valley below them. They see something bright and shiny. He said.

It grew and grew and grew until it looked like some kind of portal, and some kind of creature crawled out of it into the forest. Now, this is about two o'clock in the morning and these guys are up on this ridge at night. Very scary experience. So supposedly he had other experiences like that. But he's one of the scientists that worked with NIDS and Bigelow and actually also worked with to the Stars, but I guess he's not anymore.

He worked with how Put Up Help Put have had a company that Davis worked for. In that company, I guess is no longer. But yeah, that's how that all started. Wild Huh, what did I think? I mean, let's see, So here's the movie that you can see came out in September twenty eighteen, made My Jeremy Corbel. There's Jeremy and I in Utah. I think Stacy. If you're still watching, you know Stacy Wright was out there with us. She's a head of Arizona. Move on.

It was super cold out there, but yeah, he was talking about his film out there. So that's kind of the background and who all these people are. But we're going to get more into it because there's been news. Headlines have to come out since all of this, and these headlines are really important as to how these things came about. This one's important just because it turned out that they're you know, out of those three videos, we've only

talked about one. The other two were from incidents between It turns out to be like between maybe twenty thirteen and twenty fifteen. The dates are a little fuzzy with people, but with the new information, it seems like it started in twenty thirteen. But the Roosevelt are the Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group off of the East coast between like Virginia and Florida. They were doing exercises and they

started experiencing things similar to the nimits. They were catching weird radar returns and in one case, you know, they really took it seriously when some kind of object had zipped right in between a couple f eighteens. But they were able to cap sure objects on video twice. And this is where the other two videos come from. You know. The History Channel, of course, ran a television program called Unidentified that covered some of this and what was revealed

because it was about to the Stars. It was about a tip really and the to the Stars investigations. But here's what resulted. Here's the Politico story. Brian Bender, who we talked about earlier, who broke helped break the story in the beginning with The New York Times. He broke this story that the US Navy was drafting new guidelines for reporting UFOs. So the Navy was very positive about this. They came out and said, yes, those videos are ours, and we take UFOs very seriously. In fact, we are

going to draft new guidelines for UFOs. So that was one of the first stories that came out that was really big. Here's another one. This was written by the war Zone and this is guy's been really important, Tyler Roguaway. This is a This website is owned by Times Magazine or the Times Corporation. It was started called The Drive, so it was about cars and stuff

like that. But they also started a defense chapter or section of the website called the war Zone, where day in and day out they cover defense. They cover especially the objects, meaning the aircraft. So they carried the jets of the aircraft that are in wars. And here's a story, an important story he wrote in May of twenty nineteen, multiple F eighteen pilots disclosed recent

UFO counter encounters. New radar tech key in detection, and the reason he brought this up is that both the Knimits and the Roosevelt when they began having these incidents, were testing out or implementing new radar systems. Does that have something to do with it? But some people got in the UFO field get really upset. Are you trying to say that you know they're misidentifying blah blah blah blah blah. He's kind of is. He's not saying that's the case.

He's just asking the question. And I think we have to, you know, give him credit for doing the research, but also see things from his perspective. This is a guy who works with the military on the regular basis, and now these UFO stories are coming out, it's his job to try to figure out what the heck is this. He's a tech expert, and if you look in his articles, he's very clear about the technology that is observed in these incidents and how it is technology that if any human has

it, it's a huge big deal. If this is a black project, that is a big deal. And he's making that point. So he's trying to figure out could it be And the one hand, what could it be? It couldn't be something extraordinary. On the other hand, it might be something that's ours, but it can't be. How can we have something like

that? And that's the struggle we see going on in his mind, which is also the struggle going on in many people's minds who are trying to take this seriously but trying to make sense of it, especially tech guys, scientists, engineers, you know, trying to make heads or tails of all of this. At least he's brave enough to write about it and put these stories

out, and sure he proposes could it be this? But at the same time, if you read his stories, he says, maybe, but probably not, because there's no way it could have been X, Y or z. Even the President said he was briefed on sightings. So you'll notice that this all came out this was an important period of time a year ago. Coincidentally, hmm. June fifteenth, twenty nineteen, Trump says he was briefed on navy sightings on UFOs. Essentially, he says, he even says,

right here to think whatever they think. I did have one very brief meeting on it. But people are saying they're seeing UFOs, Do I believe it? Not? Particularly President doesn't really care about UFOs. It doesn't seem like but he says he was briefed and sure, if they want to look into UFOs they can, of course, he said more recently, but I don't think it's significant personally. Some people do, but I don't see it.

Senators get classified briefing on sightings. Another Brian bore Bender story. This one came out four days after the last one, where he breaks the story that senators got a classified briefing on UFOs. He even mentioned Senator Mark Warner. There's another story. I think it's coming up soon. But Senator Mark Warner wrote a letter to the Navy saying, hey, I want to know more about this, and they kind of said, don't worry about it. Don't

worry about it. Here's another Roquaway story. Recent UFO encounters with pilots occurred constantly across multiple squadrons. This is why we need these mainstream media people. This is why they're so important and why I'm so thrilled that they're involved with this because they have the connections. Roguaway is talking to pilots on a regular basis now that this UFO stuff is out. He's like, hey, by the way, what do you think of these UFOs? And a lot of

people are saying, oh, yeah, I see those UFOs. Notice this is June twentieth, the day after the last article, just to say how compact and frequent this news is. So yeah, all these people are saying, yeah, we're seeing these UFOs. Big deal. You know, I'm a jet fighter pilot. We chase UFOs. That's what we do. Haven't you seen Independence Day? They didn't really say that, but you know, he found there's a lot of people claiming that they were seeing these things.

Here's the Mark Warner story. He's upset Navy is withholding data on UFO sightings. This one September twenty nineteen. So Mark Warner one of those I think he's in the house. Yeah, he's a rep. He wrote that letter that I said, and they blew him off. They said, I don't worry about it. We report to the Intelligence Committee. Is essentially what he said. What they told him, and he was upset with it. He's like, they're hiding stuff and they're not giving me the info that we want.

But he doesn't seem to have followed up on it. Again, this is Brian Bender. Again. We wouldn't have these stories if some of these media people weren't taking an interest in writing these stories for us. Thank goodness for these mainstream media people. I'm telling you people. Here's another one. This is from September twenty nineteen. So a little bit later, the US Navy just confirmed these videos are the real deal. This is what's funny.

So the Navy confirms that these videos are real. Yet it's not until about, you know, nine months later, that the DoD says, oh, yeah, we released these videos for the first time. No you didn't, they've been out. I'll get more into that in a second right here. Actually, this is a great story from Tyler Rogerway. Another excellent piece. This is more recent April twenty sixth, twenty nineteen, and I'm going to do a live stream on this topic, so I implore you to watch.

But he says, what the hell is going on with UFOs and the Department of Defense? And I'll give you a nutshell. You guys probably already know it. I've lost a friend over the Department of Defense and their BS. So let me tell you the story. So I've been good friends with John Greenwald of the Black Vault for a long, long, many years, and in fact, we all kind of had a working relationship. He would come across something good on UFOs and he would say, hey, Alejandro just came

across something good. He would let me know what was up. I would write a story on it, and you know, because he usually would release kind of an analysis and the document that they're lengthy, and I would write this concise story on putting it in history and everything, and that's how we work together. Well, all of this comes along and he's like, I don't know. I don't buy these a tip guys, I don't buy this Louel Azondo, he's lying to us. All the facts don't match up.

And he was talking with the d D and the DD was telling him, no, none of this is true. They said, Louelzando didn't work for a tip, that a tip didn't investigate UFOs. The first thing they said about the videos were that the DoD had nothing to do with the videos. Now, the DoD is a the Department of Defense, which is out of the Pentagon. So you hear these kind of terms intermingled, You'll hear DD, and you'll hear Pentagon intermingled, because usually when you refer to the Pentagon,

you mean the Department of Defense. Because that's where they're headquartered. However, those are also terms for the entire military organization, all the military. That's who the DoD and the Pentagon represent the entire military, every branch. So for the DoD to say we don't have anything to do with it, that would imply the Navy doesn't have anything to do with it. The Navy

has obviously come out and said no, those videos were real. So the DODS really pushed back and essentially defamed Louel Alesando said everything he said was a lie, and it's really unfortunate. Now John Greenwald believed them. He's like, well, they're telling me this. They got to be right. This is the official thing, and Loue Alexander's a liar and I would tell him no. I mean, I've talked to the guy. I've also talked to other major players. It's not the case. And here's what some people didn't

understand in the journalism field. And Brian Bender put really well when I interviewed him. You go to your sources. That's where you go and get information. Hopefully you'll be able to get some people on the record, but that's where that's where you're going to get the people who know. For instance, who are the people who would know in this case whether or not Alexando was telling the truth. Well, you would Harry Reid, who's very credible,

he's a senator, he's the guy who started the dang project. He would know the people who worked under the project, such as doctor Putoff, doctor Davis, Robert Bigelow himself. You know, these are all the people who would know, all of whom we're confirming what Aleszondo had said. And I'm sorry, but they're gonna know better than a press officer who's you know, way way away, very far away from this whole everything, and may not

even have access to the information. So typically, in fact, the way Brian Bender puts it, he rarely does boys because if I've got to do a foya, then it's a waste of time for me because I'm not going to get that information anytime soon. So that's going to be maybe a story in another month or two. I'm working on my story right now. So that's why you develop sources, and you go to the sources, people on the inside who would have the no and in this process you talk to those

people. For instance, Brian Bender, in his process, he may talk to a dozen people to confirm a story, but only two or three go on the record and their quotes make it into the story. That's the way this works. So that's why all the media people, George knapp, Leslie Kane, Brian Bender, they were all saying loose telling the truth, and all the people we talked to seems to be right. Those press people for

the DoD seem to be way off their rocker. They're totally talent it wrong and so some people like John, We're getting upset with all those people and myself saying why are you buying all this when the DD is saying he's lying. Well, it's like because we've confirmed this with first hand sources. So that's why. And they've been really weird. So they have gone back and forth, whether a tip is UFOs or not, whether low works for the

government or not, whether a tip continued or not. They continued to say, No, it ended in twenty twelve. No, it ended in twenty twelve. It's true that the funding for the project ended in twenty twelve, but the program did not end in twenty twelve. In fact, recently, in interviews with Roger Gassel, the Department of Defense has admitted that the there are research organizations looking into incursions. The way they put it into military airspace,

you know, they're implying these UFOs. Then, when pinned down more directly, Roger told, yes, we do have a UAP and Unidentified Aerial Phenomena group. They are multi agency looking into this topic. That's what Alessando told us from the beginning, So that came to be true too. What about this story we're looking at here with Tyler Rogaway. What's so interesting about this story is Tyler writes about his interactions with the DoD and he says,

I work with these pios, the press, the public relations officer. No, I forget the name, I'm saying it wrong, but anyway, it's the press officers. Somebody will probably correct me. Oh, I got about thirty minutes. But anyways, they had been telling him that, you know, they had not been They were blowing Tyler off when he was asking about UFOs. He's like, look, I work with the press people in the military on a daily basis. Never do I have a problem working with them

or getting information or them getting back to me. But when it comes to the UFO thing, they're freaking weird. He puts the whole history. They say they're going to get back to me, then they don't. They apologize, oh, we're sorry, we lost it in the shuffle, but then it keeps happening. And so he did a very good job job documenting how weird that was. And this is what's even more concerning. Lately, there's been some emails to come out to show that the press person for the DoD

who has been mucking up everything and been completely interaccurate. Her name is Susan go or GoF, I'm not sure how to say it, it's gou Gh. She has told all the other agencies that they need to go through her whenever they're asked about UFOs now, including FOYA documents, which is weird because FOYA is different than the public relations people, so that shouldn't be a public relations person who now you have to go through to get the whole idea between

FOYA is you request a document, they send you the document. There's no spin or cleansing that's supposed to happen from some press agent. But now she's saying it has to go through me, and they've all said, okay, we'll let it all go through you. So the most inaccurate person is the one that all this information has to go through. Now the person that Tyler Rogaway is writing about. Why we can speculate. But I think it's just obvious people. They were not happy, and it kind of makes sense.

I wrote this tweet today that Alezondo totally usurped the way that this information is supposed to come out, and he did. He went to his superiors to try to get the information or up the line. They didn't want any of it. So he decided, Okay, then I'm leaving and I'm feeding this stuff to the press, which he did, and he's been very successful. In fact, let's talk about it right here. Here's the big story from

yesterday. Senators want the public to see the government's UFO reports. So what has happened is the Senate Intelligence Committee, headed by Marco Rubio, has written in their bill regarding you know, Senate intelligence issues, funding issues, that they want a report and here's where they want to report from. This is really interesting. They want to report from the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force headed up by the Office of Naval Intelligence OHNI. What so Lou worked in OSD.

That's where his group was brought to but now it's headed up and overseen by the Navy. Obviously the Navy had these issues. But you may be thinking, well, that's only one group. How do we know that this is the only group out there. They were clear, we want to know and hear get a report from every UAP research group or people looking into UAPs in every agency, including the FBI. So it's very comprehensive. It's only two pages, but they want this report from everybody. They don't want anybody

left out of this report. You can go read it in this story or it's all ablaze on Twitter. What they asked for is there essentially, and this is how Chris Mellen has put it. He when asked on Twitter in the last couple of days that they're upset. The Senate is saying, why we're not at the Senate Intelligence Group? Who is exactly who? Mark Warner you know, was told, well, we're giving information to Senate Intelligence so

you don't have to worry about it. The intelligence committees are who we talked to. But the Senate Intelligence community or committee is saying, why didn't we know about this? How come? Why do we have to read about this in the New York Times. We should have been briefed on this at some point, but you kept it from us. And that's what Lou was trying to do, is get that information up the ladder, getting everybody in the know that this is a real phenomena. This is really something we need to

think about. So talk about vindication. This is major vindication for Lou Elizondo, who has had a tough road to go. You know, the UFO community was really negative and really you know, not nice to him when he came out. He thought they were going to be overjoyed because he wanted to just share UFO stuff with everybody, and that that wasn't the case. Luckily, that's changed over time and now people are much more receptive to hear what

he says, but not everybody. I still get harassed by people, what that dark journalist guy. I don't know some of who's a friend who harasses me. Jimmy Church, but I went on his show and I say him straight. They just don't have all the information in some cases, That's how I feel it was with Jimmy Church. But people who are still questioning some of this stuff that's well established and from many different angles we've been able to confirm, you know, a lot of this information. So he's had a

tough row, but finally we've got vindication in this. Now this report is not They're asking this report to be submitted in March of twenty twenty one, and this bill has not passed yet. Brian Bender keeps an eye on this stuff. That's his job. He says, nobody has complained about this yet, so it's very possible it'll go through, But once it leaves the Senate, it needs to be approved by the House, and then it needs to

be approved by the President. So we'll see if it makes it. And then even if it does make it, they have until March of twenty twenty one to write this. However, all hope is not lost. And you know what, I'm gonna share something new with you because this is the end and it's about this. So there is a guy online who has been tweeting. He's obviously an insider. James Graywood was a tweet that he was using that I'm referring to in particular, and he outlined for me what he feels

is going on, and I think he's exactly correct. He's essentially telling me what Chris Mellon's strategy was Chris Mellon's strategy was this he says, and I think he's right, and you'll see this born out in what has happened. That their plan when they package that media package him and Lou and they went to Brian Bender and Leslie Kane to try to get this story out there.

It was the intent was to make a big splash, That's what they wanted to do, which they did, and do what Lou was trying to do in the beginning, get the attention of everybody out there that, look, this is a real program. Then the idea is to and maybe the DoD knew this and this is why they were fighting it. Then the idea is to let me come face to face with you guys, hopefully you don't mind. The idea was to get the DoD to admit that this program exists.

And that is really important because then once they admit that the program exists, it gives us our own legal tool as citizens of the United States to seek information about these programs that we didn't know about and we're being denied existed at all. But not only us, it gives our representatives in Washington d c the opportunity to say, hey, why didn't we know about this? We're supposed to know about this, which is exactly what's happening. Brian Bender wrote

that article that these guys were briefed a year ago. This isn't something new, This is something that these politicians have been working on. Mark Warner obviously is interested in They're interested in this topic. So they've rolled into this bill that we want this report. Let's say it doesn't make it for some reason. I think the evidence exists that this program was so successful, you know Mellon's plan, that there is a lot of momentum in DC to get answers

about UFOs and about what they found and what they've been doing. So I don't think even if this question gets taken off of the bill, it's not going to stop them. They're asking questions now. The ball's rolling and there's a lot of people ask what are to the stars doing. I know for a fact, because luckily I do get to talk to Lou sometimes, Chris not really, but some of the others, and they this is where they've

been working. They've been in DC. You can see on social media they've been in DC a lot they're in DC, asking questions, trying to get answers about what's going on and that because that's what they want. So this is a good thing. This is really exciting. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that we just don't see, but it's all advocacy for this

topic. That's why it's so important right now that we act and work in a professional manner that we try to shuttle information in a credible manner, information that is substantiated, because that's only going to open doors. Let's say I'm not as conspiratorial some of you will know. I'm not, as you know, definite on some of the more fringy sort of topics in this field.

But if you really want to get some of that information out there, the way to open doors is to first gain their trust by feeding some substantiated, credible information. Those people don't know about Washington, DC in nineteen fifty two and that the blue Book. You know, leadership, we're at Reagan Airport. They took over the tower at Reagan Airport in July nineteen fifty two and to try to see a UFO encounter and got a front seat to one of

the most incredible UFO encounters very similar to the Nimtz situation. Scramble jets, these things out maneuvered jets. They don't know about some of this stuff. They don't know that every country has been having these things happen to them. They don't care about UFOs. UFOs haven't been on their radar until now. So things have changed people. It's a big deal, and we need to change too. You don't have to, but what I'm saying is that some

of us do. Some of us need to be even more careful than we have been before, people like Leive Spiegel, who has been embedded in mainstream media for many years. You know, we just have to be more careful these days on how we do things if we want to remain credible and keep this field credible and everything going forward. A couple other points I want to make is that I think that it would make sense that Chris Mellen did have a strategy going into this, and it looks like his strategy is paying off

in spades at this point. They've created a ton of momentum. I think it's a really important point that Loue Elizondo has been so indicated as much as he has. You know, the Tim mcmill and I interviewed the other day and he said Susan Go told him something like, oh, she couldn't confirm whether Alezanda worked in a tip or or what he did, because he's been

retired now for so long. What they obviously don't want to speak to this, and there's something funny going on there, hopefully, and I'm hearing we will find out a little bit more about that because there are some rocks that have been turned over, and there are some skeletons in some closets, so there will be more information coming out that way. And there has been a shakeup regarding all of that, and there is a battle going on that we

don't even see regarding all of this. So at the same time, you know they've been We've got some really strong advocates in Washington when it comes to Louise Elizando and Chris Mellen, and we don't even know who these other ones are. Now I'm going to go ahead and answer some questions. So let's see, Alejandro, do you think Mattis is or will be involved with this in some way? I would guess that he now is being able to get

information. I don't know if he's reached out to Louise Elisondo, but hopefully he has. But I would guess that he is now getting some information. What he'll do with it, we don't know. He's now a private citizen, so we'll see. Maybe he'll get interviewed about it at least at some point. Do you think treaties exist between aliens and governments. I do not personally believe that. I don't. I just personally don't feel that. I feel that the government is in dark about a lot of this, just like

everybody else. And not to say that they don't have more information. They obviously do. They definitely do, but it doesn't mean they are able to make headritch tales of it. And it doesn't mean that any visiting, you know, people should that be what's going on, would care about our government or what they would have to say. They couldn't be just doing their own

thing without any sort of I don't think they need any consent. Let's say the abduction phenomena is real, which I don't know if it is, but it's somebody that can come snatch someone out of their bed in the middle of a busy neighborhood and nobody else notice what do they care about the government. Why don't UFOs just land in public? I don't know. I think it's a great question because if there is an intelligence behind this phenomena, it obviously

doesn't want to it's being sneaky. It is being sneaky by design. Do you think WiFi is an alien thing? I don't actually, But this lets

me plug another story. I did write an article indent of recently that I really really like and I think people should check out because it's about Nikola, Tesla and Marconi, and there's a debate over who invented radio, Marconi or Tesla, Regardless, they both feel when they were working on the technology of radio, they receive signals that they think we're Martian, that they think we're

aliens. Now we don't know, or we do know now that many oops froze there for a second, but we know that there's a lot of radio signals coming from space, and they didn't know that back then. But what's interesting about this article I wrote is that Einstein and Edison responded. They actually went on the record because media people ask, hey, what do you think of Marconi and Tesla saying they talked to aliens or got radio signals from aliens,

and Edison said, yeah, they probably did. Essentially, Edison or Einstein said, uh, well, I don't think that they got radio signals, but there's definitely got to be extraterrestrial intelligent civilizations out there, but they would probably communicate with lasers, lights, not radio. Interesting, interesting stuff. That was a really good article I wrote, if I do say so

myself. It's in Den of Geek, and of course you can find it on my social media and on my Patreon, which many of you are patrons on my patreon. Do you think early on Tom was fed some disinfo? I think that's entirely possible. And I think you bring up another great topic. And I'm glad you brought this up because I wanted to mention it. We've only got ten minutes, by the way, but there's disinfo out there. J. The first time we heard about MJ twelve is in a document

called the Aquarius Document. It was given to a man named Benowitz by Bill Moore at the behest of Rick Dody. Rick Doty was working for Air Force Office of Special Investigations. He says he that this Benowitz guy was watching some of the stuff they were doing, thinking he was seeing UFOs and aliens when they were actually seek top secret projects. To throw him off the trail, Rick Doty said he created fake documents to give to Benowitz to make him think

it was UFOs and aliens, but it was not. That's the origins of MJ twelve people. The guy who passed the document, Bill Moore, was Stanton Friedman's partner for nearly ten years. Bill Moore was passing this disinformation without Stanton Friedman knowing. The MJ twelve documents, especially that first briefing document that outs everybody. That document is nearly identical to much of Bill Moore and Stanton Friedman's work. I don't think Friedman had anything to do with it. I

think Bill Moore definitely did. But these are problems. These are problems that we and not only that, people say, well, maybe some of it's false and maybe some of it's true. We can't throw it all out, Okay, let's say that. So let's say there's this group, the Cabal, and they're like, okay, people might be coming getting onto us, which they didn't. Nobody knew anything about MJ twelve before this document. They're like, how do we hide ourselves hmm, let's hide our existence by revealing

the name of our group. All of the members of our group are procedures on how we work and operate. We'll reveal everything about ourselves, and that's how we'll keep ourselves secret. We're the most secretive organization ever in existence, and we're going to keep ourselves secret by telling everybody. It doesn't make any sense, Okay, do you think so? But so My point is we haven't been sophisticated or smart enough as a community to thoroughly investigate what disinformation is

out there. We all feel that there is disinformation out there, but we don't know what's disinformation. Yet we go espouse all of these things that are unsubstantiated and incredibly dubious as real. That's silly. We really need to examine what is disinformation so we can more intelligently and in a more educated manner no separate that fact from fiction. And we need to bust those disinformationists. If Richard Doty was really passing disinformation at the behest of his superiors, they need

to be busted because that's not legal. You can't do that. They need to answer for it. I've worked with them via Foya I got foyas on Richard Dody. When I did that, they told me the entire time, They're going to let me talk to somebody who will go on the record and answer questions about what Dody was doing. When I got my FOYA documents, they said, nope, sorry, we can't do that. Why why wouldn't they let me talk to somebody. It's very frustrating. I'm hoping that at

some point we can get that. Should we fear you fos? I don't think so. I could be wrong. I've never feared eurofos, and I chase them. I go to places where they are. At least Biegel, if he's still in the room, had a very harrowing UFO experience, but he was able to get away unscathed. This object essentially just flew over, which was extraordinary, and he was there because Helen j Heinich told him to go there. But Jay Allen Heinich, I don't think we need to fear

them. And in fact, I think this is important too that Chilean government actually got together and had a meeting with their because they believe in UFOs, their government and their military, so they had a lot of their leadership get together to determine whether or not they felt UFOs were malevolent or benevolent. They determined that they do not pose a threat. The worst threat that they pose are pilots being distracted when they see them. So I think that's really interesting.

Do you think TTSA have a direct line to The New York Times. They seem to synchronize. They certainly do not the New York Times. Nobody has a direct line to the New York Times. They're very, very discriminating. They're very discerning with their information. They are a newspaper of record. Doesn't mean that they get it right all the time. Heck no, they

definitely don't always get it right. But they're very, very careful, and their perspective is to be skeptical of everything, because that's how you have to be when you're a good journalist. You have to be skeptical. It's kind of like the null hypothesis. As a scientist, whatever it is you believe you can prove, your job is to disprove that, and if you can't disprove it, then you've got something, and then you send it out to your partners, your colleagues to disprove it, and they attack it. But

if they can't disprove it, then you really got something. That's how science works, That's often how journalism works. You attack it, try to figure out what's truth and what's not. And certainly people on the fringe like TTSA do not have a direct line. I can tell you for a fact there would have been a lot more stories because there were a lot more stories that were attempted to be printed in the New York Times but were not allowed to.

However, someone with the credibility of a Chris Mellen does have more access. He was allowed to write his own op ed calling for exactly what's happening right now, calling for the Senate to ask questions about UAPs. Heard rumors are New York Time article? Have you heard about this? Yeah? I have heard about these rumors of a New York Times article. My colleague Martin Willis a podcast. UFO reached out to Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal, who

wrote that one original story. They said they had not heard about any New York Times story. However, there have been a couple of UFO researchers who have said I was contacted by someone who said they were working on a story for The New York Times. That person might have just been trying to call around to see if they can get see if there's any type of story out there. But keep in mind, we're coming along the Roswell crash anniversary time

period. And the President did the other day say something about Roswell. I heard something about Roswell. He said, everybody's heard something weird about Roswell. But that would be enough for a news story. But if it's your typical Roswell tongue in cheek story, it's not going to be some kind of big expose. A lot of people are hoping some kind of big stories going to be worked out and it's going to be amazing. That'll be great. I

mean I would love that. I would love if, you know, we had some whistleblower come out and say something, But I really don't see that happening. What do you think of the history show The Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch. I haven't watched much of it, to be honest, I've heard mixed opinions, and I know I am totally derelict in my duty in not watching it. I've wanted to sit down and well, what it is. It's me and my girlfriend. I've wanted to sit down and kind of binge watch

it with her, and we just haven't had time. She's working on the UFO Congress, I've been working on doing all these live streams, so we just haven't had time to watch it. But I really need to do that. I will soon ask me that question in a couple of weeks. Actually, we're psychological effects reported during the tic, TAC or gimbal events, not that I'm aware of. I do not know of any psychological events at those

incidents. However, Kevin Day does feel he was very greatly impacted. He's been made fun of a little bit for saying he has PTSD from that incident, but he definitely gets emotional when he talks about it, and he kind of put it this way at the UFO Congress when I interviewed him, and I can understand it. He said that Kurt says it's worth watching worth watching

the show, so I definitely got to watch it. But Kevin Day says, it was my job as a supervisor of the radars to watch these guys and make sure my guys are safe when I've got things, and this has never happened before. You know, when you see something, you scramble, you find out what it is, you take care of it. When I've got things flying around doing whatever the hell they want on my screens and it's

my responsibility to keep these guys safe, it freaked me out. I couldn't do my job and it terrified me and it's had a lasting effect on my psychological you know, well being. That's what Kevin Day says, and I think that's a fair point and it makes sense. So we are out of time. So thank you guys so much for joining me. If you're not a patron on Patreon, because I did invite some friends, please do that. I mean, if you go there, for a buck fifty, you

can get all of the audio files. By the way, well I'll tell you guys, open minds, CFO radios coming back. I am getting all these things kind of configured. I think it's fixed, but I'm going to have also I'm going to turn these into audio. So for a buck fifty you'll be able to get the audio version, or for the five dollars you can join all of these live. But it helps me out a lot.

That's one of the things I had to go away. I just couldn't afford to do this anymore, and I'm hoping I'll be able to come back and continue to do this if i can get enough patrons. And then I'm also gonna put these replays on YouTube, so you can subscribe there if you just want to watch these videos, but if you want to be here live. It's so wonderful to have you guys here live and ask these great questions and I really love it, so thank you all so much. Speaking of Phoenix,

move on, who is in here? Phoenix? MoveOn? At Open Mind Stevie, We're going to do We're going to live stream their meetings can because they can't meet in person, so you can watch that. And then I've got a new show called What is Doug Reading, which is more for fun, which we're going to have tomorrow at noon, and that'll be every Thursday. But thank you all so much for joining you guys, have a great evening,