The History Behind the Pentagon’s UFO Program

Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am all Bamase today, no Martin, no Loue Alessando either. But don't worry. Don't worry. I have a lot of

good information. In fact, I think this is going to be better because what I decided is, you know, but there I'm getting in a lot of questions for Lou Elizondo, who used to run that Pentagon program, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification program, and I'm realizing, you know, a lot of people don't completely understand what a tip was or what they did, and there's a lot of confusion. So I decided, you know, what would be a good idea is to share with you all kind of the timeline of

how all this happened. You know, what happened when and who, and I think that way people will have a better understanding of how all of this works before we go into the interview with Lou, which should be next week. If not next week, trust me, it's going to be very very

soon. It'll probably be next week. And I'll still include in this timeline some exclusive information I've gotten from Lou recently that others haven't, and actually a lot of that will also be in the news that I'll be covering in just a minute, So we'll be going over this really important timeline here very soon, just after the break. I also want to say, though, the news is really important this week, and I have some great stuff in there

too regarding all of this, including updates from Lou. But first, c Intro Open Minds CUFO Radio presents credible UFO news and information from a journalistic point of view, So this is substantiated, credible information from the mainstream. We do, of course, have guests, and we do speculate and things at time, but we're calling speculation speculation. This isn't all just about speculation,

whereas a lot of the UFO field is about mythology and speculation. We're bringing you the facts and the details and the info, and right now is a very unique time in history because we're getting a lot of very credible information, great stuff, and so I'll be sharing a lot of that with you throughout the show. So stay tuned. Let's go ahead and get into that news first. So if you go to Openminds dot tv, we've always got the news the UFO headlines on the front page, and there have been some really

important headlines this week. Let's get into that. First of all, exclusive the ITEAM confirms the Pentagon did release the UFO videos. So there has been some question as to where the UFO videos that were in the New York Times article and that to the stars this UFO organization started by Tom DeLong all came

from. Now it's kind of funny because even though these questions exist in the mainstream, nobody's really been asking about these Why Because when the world learned about these videos that they existed, it was through the New York Times in December twenty seventeen. The New York Times had said, Hey, you know, this Pentagon project existed that was looking into UFOs. Here's details, here's some cases they looked at, and it include these videos they said they got from

the DoD. Now, when it comes to mainstream media, and I know a lot of you look probably negative on mainstream media, but you know, and they are. They don't do their typical due diligence typically in the UFO arena, but in this case they certainly did. They held this story to

the standards that they hold all their other stories. So all the information that they presented was carefully vetted, and they were able to make sure that everything they received was real and on the up and up before they reported that. How can I say this with such strong confidence. It's because I'm one of the few people who have interviewed Leslie Kane, one of the authors of the

New York Times article, and she's confirmed all of this with us. Am I you know, I'm not also saying emphasizing that, you know, I'm one of the few who have interviewed her on this topic to make myself seem special, No, just the opposite. What's frustrating about this situation is there's a lot of people casting doubt and also implying that there's some poor reporting or that there are some people being dishonest, but they're not going to the sources

of the information to even find that out. What's frustrating, and Leslie and I have talked about this lately, is that I'm one of the few people, if not the only, person, that has asked her about many of these things, despite the number of people out there speculating and casting suspicion and also guesting implications that are all completely accurate. So I've known this for a long time, right after, you know, I interviewed her soon after that

report came out. So we've had this information. We've known how she got this and where and why they believe that, you know, these were definitely d D videos. And in fact, I wrote an article on this, and I'll talk to you guys about that just a second. But a part of this was this form, the d D nineteen ten, And this is a form that essentially is used to present to the higher ups to say, hey, is it okay to release this information, and then the information is

released. Leslie in our interview right after she helped with that New York Times article, said that they had a copy of this d D nineteen ten and they verified it was real. And that's one of the reasons they knew, you know, these videos came from the DoD. This form had said. So, Well, the news is in this Klas story that I'm talking about here, is that finally we've been able to see this form. The New

York Times did not release that form. No one has, despite a few people including myself, having seen a copy of the form, but nobody had permission to release it. Well, George Napp finally got it with Klas. George Napp of course, being a great investigative journalst In fact, he's the go to guy really with this story. I would think that maybe I'm the number two go to guy with this story because I'm spending so much time to verify and get you information. But George Napp is the best. I mean,

George Nap is really digging. He's going to Washington, he's getting all this great information and he released the d D nineteen ten and as he said, the ITEAM confirms the Pentagon did release the UFO videos. Well, there has been some doubt, and you know, to be fair, all of the doubt was It's not like all this doubt was silly. It was a

little bit warranted in that. George or I'm sorry, John Greenwald of The Black Vault asked the DoD about these videos and he wanted to see that for him, but the DoD told him we had nothing to do with the videos that were released. In fact, this is really important their verbiage. So I'm gonna read exactly what they told him. They told John, the d

D has not released the videos related to this program. So people are like, what you know, DoD didn't have anything to do with it, even though New York Times told us they had, so that's why people were questioning.

It's one of the reasons people were legitimately questioning all of this. Well, when this Klas story came out on May one, just right after I released my last show, essentially the George John Greenwald got another response from the d D. And it's kind of interesting that John Greenwald is the first one the d D gives information to. In fact, here's what I predicted it, and I'm not I'm trying to be as nice as possible, but this

is the truth. I predicted that John Greenwald would be the first one that would get a response from the DoD, and that instead of just kind of putting out this response, that somehow it would be spun to criticize to the stars of Elizondo as opposed to criticizing the DoD. And sure enough, that's what happened. But what's spectacular, what's interesting is what they did tell John

Greenwald told him that they confirmed that the DD nineteen ten is real. They did say at the end of their document that the submitted requested that the videos solely be released solely for research and analysist purpose by the US government agencies and industry partners, and not for the general public release. So John said, you know what, the DOOD confirms they did not release these videos, but

that's not really what happened here. They confirmed the DD nineteen ten is real, So they did confirm that the documents were they had released this video. In fact, if you look at the document now, what the DoD is referring to is that there were some stipulations in this document as to what these videos would be used for, at least in the request. The request who We're not sure who that is. We have not come from firm who that is, and lou has said that he cannot confirm who that is either.

But this is what they wrote. They said when it came to where it was going to be presented, they wrote not applicable, not for publication, research and analysis only, and info sharing with other usg and industry partners for the purpose of developing a database to help identify, analyze, and ultimately defeat UAS threats. What is UAS, you may be wondering, which is a great question. There's a couple ways I've seen that term used. There is

the most common usage, which is a unmanned aerial system. But another way that term has been used is an unidentified aerial system. We should have Lou on the show soon, so we'll ask him his thoughts on that term and what he feels that that term had meant. But what we do not see here is that it's not released for the general public. In fact, this

document is to release information to the public. It's called a clearance request for public release, and it was approved on August twenty fourth, twenty seventeen, and the videos were released. Nowhere on here does it say it's not released to the general public. In fact, it it is for databases for industry partners. But it doesn't say that these databases cannot be public facing. The

only thing it says is it's not for publication. But a publication is a publishing like in a book or in a journal or in an article, which in August twenty seventeen, apparently you know, the request was not to do that. Some people are asking, well, then how did it get into New York Times. Well, this document wasn't the document that released it to

the New York Times. We don't necessarily know. We have some information and I'll share that with you new information from Leslie, who's essentially saying, yes, they're real. You know, we were given these videos and we verified their real So I'm not even sure why there's any question here. So the DoD's comment to John Greenwald was not accurate. It was released to the general public. Why are they spinning it like this? Why did they do that?

It doesn't surprise me at all because the DoD public relations department has not been very forthcoming when it comes to all of this. I have had no Foyer requests. I've called, I've contacted them, I've talked to some people, I've emailed. They haven't given me anything. And it's not just me, of course, I'm kind of low man on the totem poll. It's not like I'm coming from a larger news organization and asking for information. But

others have not received information as well. You know, John seems to be receiving most of the information. So it I think there's here's me speculating again. But and I've learned a lot about FOYA through John Greenwald and how these departments work. Not only that, but by writing about UFO, and often these departments are wrong at the beginning or they will not give us information until a big news organization comes into the scene and they start asking questions and they

get more headway. Or they'll tell us they don't have records and it turns out that they do. And that's why a public relations department is just for that what the public is going to see, you know, a spin and making it a positive story for that military organization. So I don't think they wanted to just outright and address that they were lying. I mean, I think that would have been the honest way to do it. And maybe they

weren't lying, maybe they were wrong. And we've seen this before where they said we did not know that there actually was information related to this, which is fair and probably honest, and that's probably what should have been done in this case, is that we were not aware of this document. It turns out that the DoD did release these videos, that would have been an honest way to do it. But to say that it was released for general public

release, it's just not accurate at all. And even if it wasn't, again, this document does not bar you know, these databases to be from being public facing. I mean, this was a public release. That's what this document was for and that's what happened here. So just to make you all clear on that, there have been some other people who have piped in a bit, so, like I said, Leslie Kane has She actually posted my story which was a follow up to you know, George Knapp's story,

which kind of clarified some of these questions about these details. Leslie Kane wrote when she posted my story for those following what I believe to be unnecessary controversy about the source of the d D videos, if we at the Times did not have this document from a reliable source, we would not have stated that the videos were from the DoD. She even went further to make a comment later on, thanks to Alejandro and Nick Pope, and thanks for all the

comments. Nick Pope had jumped in and said, you know, he could verify that New York Times, you know really scrutinizes if information before it comes out, so it's got to be legit. So she goes on to say, Nick makes a strong point about the rigor of the New York Times. We at the Times received the dd Forum nineteen ten, which clears the three

videos for public release in late twenty seventeen with no reactions. This was one of many documents that Ralph and I brought to our initial meeting with Mark Mazzetti at The New York Times. We could never have published the videos otherwise. The document was provided confidentially from a reliable source and was without question legitimate,

and other documents and interviews must remain confidential as requested by our sources. No need for all the wheels that have been spinning questions questioning a Tip and our story. The Times has the highest bar of any media. In the story, we clearly described the purpose of a TIP n its focus, and so

did Senator Read, and some people even seem to question that. We also knew that the program was ongoing despite what the DoD told us, and it is not surprising to me that a TIP materials are not surfacing through Foyer requests. The program was too obscure, with only a handful of people even aware of it, buried along with hundreds of other such programs in the massive Pentagon

system. I learned from my FOYA lawsuit against NASA, which was settled in my favor in federal court in lasted years, how hard it can be to get access to documents through FOYA we got nothing. But this did not, for one instant lead me to doubt the veracity of the Kexburg case. And of course it was a Kexburg case that she had sued the NASA over to

get documents, and she didn't get any documents. They essentially said they lost them, and she even got to go to the facilities where they were like, you know, come see for yourself, and sure enough, the documents were not there. So you know, now you have it from multiple sources, not just me. You know, really, even though the dods kind of are essentially trying to spin this, these are definitely you know, as

George n App here says George Napp says. The request specifies the three videos Go Fast, Gimbal and Flair, which was the original name of the TIC TAC encounter. Personal information was redacted, but the document shows authorization for release was granted on August twenty fourth, twenty seventeen. The IT team also acquired the Department of Defense directive, which spells out how the release procedure works.

The forum shows the videos were released by the book. So I love for all of you to go to these stories, read all this information yourself and determine for yourselves. You know all of this, but it's pretty simply lead out there. And again, you know, this is not even something that mainstream media is really questioning. It's mostly what I called us uf owners who get into these sort of details. But it's all resolved at this point in

most people's minds that the DoD did release these. So there you have that story. The other big story is out there is the Navy no release of information to general public expected. This is from the Washington Post and a lot of people have written about this, and essentially the Navy had said that they're going to write up these UFO guidelines. Well, the Washington Post went back to them to follow up on the story and said, okay, we're ready,

what are these guidelines? And you know, where are you going to tell the public and all this sort of thing, And they said, well, we're not going to tell you the guidelines, we've already released them and

we're not going to give you any information about UFO encounters. So there's this huge story out there that nobody's going to receive information about the UFOs and Navy's not going to share information, and so a lot of us were pretty bombed, thinking, oh great, that kind of sucks, but at least we know the program exists, so hopefully we'll be able to go query information. I also personally found it kind of odd if they were going to start these

UFO reporting procedures, why even tell the public about it. Why not just kind of roll it out secretly and not get the public excited. Well, Lou Elisondo has given us a little information on that. So I talked to Lou about this and he said that, you like Tom DeLong has said.

And actually, one thing I forgot to mention is in that recent George Knapps story, there's also a commentary that was included in there from Chris Mellen, another member of To the Stars. They both have explained how To the Stars was integral to getting the Navy to do this, to take this step. So Lou wanted to clarify, Hey, that's not entirely accurate what the Navy saying. In a way it is. He said, they're raw data is going to be classified, that will not be shared. However, he says

they will be providing information to Congress and to their superiors. That information will be taken and it will be prepared for public release. He made it similarly. He said it's similar to nukes in North Korea. They don't share all the details about everything they know and the information they've gathered about the nukes in North Korea, but they do give us some information about the nukes where they are. They do prepare some of that information for public release. He says,

the same thing will be happening with these Navy UFO findings. They will be prepared for public release. So we'll ask Lou more about that and how he knows so much about that on the show when he's on. So yeah, so there is some hope there. So don't worry, folks. And that's another exclusive that you'll get here on Open Mind UFO Radio. Because I've only shared that on social media. I need to really write a story about that. But let's see what else we got. Mostly, we've got a

lot of stories about that. We've got Bloomberg writing about the Navy and the UFOs. We've got a lot of different places writing about that. Wow, we're really running out of time for the news. Some other editorials, this is a good one on the Saint Louis Post Dispatch. New Navy guidelines could remove stigma for pilots. Essentially, this is a guy making the argument there's no reason that a Navy pilot should be worried about being ridiculed when they're encountering

something they cannot identify. That pilot should be able to focus completely on observing this object, you know, doing whatever it takes to deal with the threat that this object may or may not pose, and then be completely clear of any fear when reporting the information about this object to superiors or up the chain, you know, because this is valuable information, this could be foreign technology. These are important intelligence gathering moments that nothing should get in the way.

So it's really well written. That's kind of fun. We have so much mainstream coming into and writing supportive pieces about UFOs. Wt IP has this their news organization that sought out this UFO witness and they have a radio show that we posted there. There's a story from The Star too, it's called this

is a Florida Area UFO kind of group. It's a move on that they reviewed and they interviewed Robert Powell from the Scientific Coalition for Eupology to talk about kind of this serious phase that UFOs is going or going through, even with some of the fringe ideas out there, so we're having a lot of articles along those lines. Also I did in in the UFO news links include one UK tabloid. As you all know, I try to stick away from those,

and they're really getting some crazy stories out there. But this one's just kind of interesting. It says Area fifty one bombshell good papers prove FBI rated property looking for stolen substance. This is a Bob Blazar story I told you about last week. So really, again it's not something that really got picked up by the media because it's kind of UFO nerdy. It's down into the

details. But this is related to last week where we found out that Bob Lazar's house was raided because they were looking for a drug that was used to kill someone. Now, Bob Lazar was not arrested. It does not appear he had anything to do with what they were looking for, but that's really what the root of that raid was, according to law enforcement. So that's

the news for the week. We're going to get into some more really important information regarding the timeline of how eight tip a SAP, how this all happened, and where does my information come it comes from? The sources, It comes from interviews, it comes from the sources. So I'll go over all of my sources as we go through this. Go get your notepads, Go get your pens or pencils, and your highlighters because you're going to want to

take notes here people. But we'll be right back after this short break. You're listening to Open minds UFO Radio. Welcome back to Open Mind GFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we are going to be talking about asp A, TIP and TTSA. What the heck is all that alphabet soup well ASAP is the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program. A TIP

is the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. These are the Pentagon programs that investigated UFOs and the paranormal Bump Bump mom TSA that is To the Stars Academy that was created by Tom DeLong and the guy who ran the Pentagon program a TIP, Luis Elizondo now works with to the Stars. To the Stars also includes very very high level officials who have retired but have an interest in UFOs and are pursuing that interest with Lou and Tom and others. That includes Chris Mellon

he's a very important individual. He used to work for He was the deputy Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and Bush administrations. He's worked at Capitol Hill for many years. He was the Minority Staff director of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, a number of things. So essentially he's been working in Washington in the intelligence field at these very high level positions for a very long time. And now he's working for a UFO company. Of

course, there's Louise Elizondo who've talked about. Another one of these individuals is Steve Justice. Now, Steve Justice worked for Lockheed Martin. He was a program director for Advanced Systems for Lockheed Martin. This is a group that's better known as skunk Work. So this is actually the group that was tasked with finding Area fifty one and building it so they could build all of these secret project for the CIA, including things like the U two, the SR seventy

one, these very very very high tech aircraft. And now this guy who used to work for this program is working for Two the Stars looking for UFOs. Another one of these individuals, and this is the one that we're going to get into first, is doctor Howe put Off. He is the co founder and vice president of Science and Technology for the Stars. He also is

a president and CFO CEO of EarthTech International. We'll get more into doctor Pudoff, but these are some of the important people running to the Stars with Tom DeLong, and this is kind of the ongoing program that's going on, and they're the ones that are going to have this History Channel show coming up May

thirty first, So I've been able to share some information on that. In fact, I can share I saw the first episode, and I know I'm kind of a Pollyanna that everything's great, Everything's wonderful, be happy, Joy Joy kind of guy. And so it may not be a surprise to you when I say that I thought the show was very, very good. But it was good. I mean I started watching it and I was getting excited because they were presenting such credible information. I mean, all these people that

I just listed pretty much are involved with the show. Their credibility levels are extremely high, and they are introduced, their backgrounds are talked about, and they're talking about and investigating UFOs in this History Channel show. It's extremely exciting. And I got confirmation when my girlfriend said Karen Brard, the owner of the UFO Congress, was like, this is really good. I'm really excited,

and I was like, yes, that's what I'm thinking too. She went so far as to say it was the best UFO show she's ever seen. So I don't know, I liked it pretty good too. I probably would say that I'm being hesitant of being too biased pro this show because it was so good and I did like it so much. But I really feel that people are going to be really excited when they do get a chance to watch that. So the show is really good. But those are kind of

the guys in the background. So let's get into the timeline. How did this all come about? And we're going to take this in two different or a few different chunks. I'm going to chunk it out to make it a little bit more palatable so we can understand what's going on here. And the other thing that I think is really important is, like I discussed with Eric Davis, when Eric Davis said, it's ridiculous that these guys are trying to

make this into some grand conspiracy. You know that there's a puppet master they're controlling what we're doing. That's insane. I mean, we're doing this of our own volition. And Leslie Kane has told us the same thing. Lewis told us the same thing. And these are people that have, of their own volition made these things happen. And you know, by trying to say that there's some sort of puppet masters takes away from the hard work that these

people have done. I've put forth and at least if there is some sort of puppet master out there, they do not seem to be aware of it. And I think the proof of all of that also lies in the history because let's take how put Off for instance. How put Off is a physicist.

He's a scientist. He's been working with the government and on government contracts for a very long time, and he has been working, in particular on paranormal topics that he has been fighting to bring credibility to for literally decades. He started doing this before I was even born. In particular, the program that he was involved with was remote viewing. All the way back in nineteen seventy two, how put Off, along with others, started working with the

CIA and the Stanford Research Institute in researching remote viewing. What is remote viewing? For those of you who don't know. It's essentially esp it's a psychic ability of viewing something at a distance. So the procedures vary, but the procedure generally is it's kind of a double blind study. So essentially you have a guy who is conducting this remote viewing and then you have a remote viewer.

So the remote viewer, let's say, is in some room. This guy who's conducting it is handed an envelope maybe with a number on it. This person does not know what's in this envelope, and then they go to the remote view and say, okay, remote view target sixty five three two

one. And the remote viewer then does their procedure where and there's different ways they can do it to write down information to try to figure out what this thing is, and then they'll look at that information the remote viewer has collected to find out whether they're accurate or not. Now, the best remote viewers they've said, we're twenty percent right, And you may think, well twenty percent, what can you do that If you have somebody remote view you know,

where's grandma? The chances are you're not going to find grandma. But the way it was put to me in an interview on this you know podcast by one of the main remote viewers, Joe mcmonagall, was that, hey, twenty percent's better than nothing. If you've got a cold case, you know, you've got no leads, you don't know who murdered Jane Doe, you can try the remote viewers and at least you have a twenty percent chance that you're going to get some information that's going to help you find someone,

whereas it's better than zero percent. And their program supposedly worked. There's a really good documentary out called Third Eye Spies, and it reviews this whole program, and you know, Joe mcmonagall in particular, talks about how, hey, if this didn't work, why was this program running For a couple decades during several administrations, this program kept going and we were busy. We had law enforcement agencies from all over the place coming to us to remote view stuff,

and we did solve cases. You've got to see this this documentary. But essentially how put of. Russell targ was another scientist involved. There were other scientists. Kit Green I believe was involved, another guy who is a medical scientist who works with with the CIA. You know, some of these others were involved. Now, this program eventually ended in nineteen ninety five. There were various remote viewing programs, so one in particular that the CIA had

was called Stargate. It went through different names, but that was its last name. But why did it end? Allegedly it ended because religious people in the government, these religious cabals we just use that word, because if they are fairly organized, felt that this was demonic, that this esp stuff should not be done. The guy government should not be involved with any of this stuff because it's demonic, and it closed down. So this story is important

for a couple reasons. The religious aspect we'll get into, and you've heard, you know me talk about this before, but we'll talk about this more

in a minute, especially when we talk about a tip. But the other side of this story and why it's important, is it shows that this gentleman, how put off, he's been working in the science field in these paranormal topics for decades before I was born, trying to get the government to pay attention to paranormal phenomena, that some of it's legit and it can be used, and also, you know, making it publicly more palatable for people to

see that there is something serious to this, and some of you have probably seen remote viewing stories, so they are getting out there that hey, wow, this remote viewing thing is something that really happened. Put Off is still doing that. And essentially when he moved forward or some of what he was able to do after remote viewing was work with Bob Bigelow. So this is the next section of the story we're going to talk about, and it's another

historical piece, which is Bob Bigelow. So who is this guy. Bob Bigelow is a real estate guy. He made billions of dollars in real estate in Las Vegas. But he's also been into the paranormal, mostly because of a citing that his grandparents have had had So when he had amassed enough money, he decided, you know what, I'm going to spend some of my billions of dollars on researching the paranormal to find out what the heck's going on.

In nineteen ninety five, the same year that the Stargate program ended, he created a group called KNIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Sciences. He gathered a bunch of scientists and essentially what they wanted to do was research the paranormal He actually funded a lot of out there and they did quite a few investigations and they created papers related to these investigations. These days, these papers are a bit hard to find. Actually. One of those was on black

triangles. What was interesting there is that they looked in the government to find out if there were any black triangle aircraft, especially that had propulsion systems that were exotic, so something that we might not recognize, to see are they ours or are they someone else's. NIDS actually determined we do not have black triangles that maneuver in the way these witnesses are talking about. This phenomena is something that is not human related. So that's the sort of reports that they

were doing. In nineteen ninety six is when the Skinwalker Ranch started to become a big deal. So Skinwalker Ranch, of course is where all this paranormal stuff was happening. We know about Skinwalker Ranch because of George Knapp. He wrote an article or a book with Colin Kellahar, which was nid's lead scientists in two thousand and five. They wrote this book about Skinwalker So we heard about all this weird stuff. Well, I'm not sure when I've got to

get this piece in here. Actually, sometime between nineteen ninety six and nineteen ninety nine, Bigelow actually bought Skinwalker Ranch and put a bunch of scientists there to start to research it. That's when George Knapp said he first visited Skinwalker Ranch. All kinds of weird stuff happened there. Of course, we talked to Jeremy Corbel about that with his Skinwalker movie. Definitely go see his movie and read the book if you're interested in the Skinwalker. Lots of crazy stuff

happened there. And we also talked to Eric Davis last week. So Eric Davis talked to us about some of the weird stuff that he experienced as one of those NID scientists at Skinwalker with us last week. He's also the guy who saw and we kind of alluded to this, but I've already talked about it, and that's why I didn't have him describe it, because we were

running out of time. I had lots of questions for him. But he's one of the guys who, like two in the morning, they're looking down in the valley and they see this orb, and this orb keeps growing and then they see in this orb what looks like a bipedal, you know, entity some like creature that crawls out of this orb and then the orb disappears. So you know, that was something he witnessed. It's one of the weird, weird things that happened there. So things began to slow down actually

at the ranch paranormal wise in the early two thousands. This is a lot of this we heard from George Napp himself when he was on this show just a few months ago. When things slowed down, then George Napp was allowed to write some Skinwalker articles and then also write the Skinwalker book, and that book came out in two thousand and five, so you know, later on, Robert Bigelow was interviewed by Sixty Minutes and he talked about how he knows

there are aliens here. He knows that UFOs some of them are aircraft, you know, are spacecraft that are piloted by aliens. That aliens are here, and he knows this through research, and he spent so much money on it, and he's certain of that. He's certainly more certain of all that than I am. But he is. You know, this is a guy, in other words, who has a lot of money, who threw his

own will decided to make this happen. Now more lately, he's been more a bit more hesitant about getting involved with the paranormal, at least in a public way, because he started this company called Bigelow Aerospace back in you know what, I need to get that date. Let me look that up for you all. But he started Bigelow Aerospace somewhere in the early two thousands.

But this, of course was a company to create aerospace products. He wanted to get into the space industry, just like Elon Musk and Bezos and all of these others. So he worked with NASA, and NASA was shuttling this program. They were getting rid of this program where they had these inflatable habitats. So Robert Bigelow bought that project and then started to develop this. This

is around two thousand and two when Bigelow got involved. So he bought this program from NASA and then he started building these habitats and he's been very successful with it. There's one of these habitats on the International Space Station right now. There are two others that are just floating around in orbit by themselves. And what he hopes to do is to sell these platforms to NASA or to private companies or even individuals, so anybody can have a platform in space.

Forms also work for basis. You could create a moon base, you can create a you can do all kinds of things with them. And because they're inflatable, you know, they're compacts, so they can flit in the nose cone of a rocket and go up there and be dropped off and then they

inflate. So and the skin is actually tougher than the rigid material that they currently use, Like for the International Space Station, you'd be safer in one of Bigelow's habitats than the rest of the space station because the material is stronger and it is less penetrable than the rest of the structure. So that's what

Bigelow is up to since the early two thousands. So that's kind of you know, the reason I think all of this history is so important, and I think many many do not realize this, especially in the mainstream, that these guys have an entire history, a whole lifetime of researching the paranormal and working and in some cases spending millions and millions of dollars to scientifically investigate the paranormal and to make it more credible for the general public. This is all

what happened before any of this a tip stuff. But now let's move on to Tom DeLong. And the reason I'm move into Tom DeLong next is that publicly, this is what we began to hear next, This is how the public began to hear about more going on behind the scenes, and we heard it from a very unlikely source, Tom DeLong. So let's get back up to here. So now we're moving into the future. So Tom DeLong, one of the first stories that he came out with regarding his interest in UFOs

was with the Rolling Stone In Let's see when was this story. This was in April of twenty sixteen. He did an interview about leaving Blink one eighty two. That's the band that Tom DeLong used to be the front man for, a very popular band to this day even without him. He talked to Rollie Stone about leaving Blank one eighty two for UFOs. He said that he was working with a lot of people behind the scenes, including government insiders,

to release this incredible information about UFOs. Of course, people were kind of like, yeah, right, you know, who's going to believe this? Goofy rock star and he did share some pretty odd opinions on UFOs, at least odd to me. It's odd in that they seem like unlikely stories. There are stories if you go to UFO conference or if you listen to you know, a lot of the UFO mythology out there. They're not that different

from those ideas that you know, UFOs aren't here. There could be a secret space program and battles with aliens and some kind of out there ideas. But a lot of people, you know, I used to entertain more of those ideas before I did more research into all of this, and now I'm more skeptical of those ideas. But you know, that was the kind of things he was talking about at times, so people weren't taking him that seriously. In July of twenty sixteen, Tom DeLong then posted something on Instagram.

It was a picture of the gates at Area fifty one and he said he met with a multi star general who gave him who helped him out on his quest to getting UFO information. He said that this general essentially told him that he'll help him with people, getting him in touch with people, and this general also alluded to that, you know, this is a real thing and that he had seen an alien body. So it got a little more interesting there. But still I think people were like, well, how can you

trust this guy? How can you trust this rock star that any of this is true? He could be making it up and it just doesn't ring credible. Why would these people, these insiders, work with this goofy rock star guy. You know, That's what people had felt. And luckily, at this time I had already known Tom DeLong. He worked with Open Minds and reposted some of our stories, including mine, on his website Strange Times,

so we at least were conversing. Some of my colleagues, Jason and Maureen had done an interview with him, and so we were familiar with him and his work at this time, so we knew he was into this stuff. So at least I was actually a little less skeptical than the rest of the world because I, at least I knew that he was serious about all this stuff, and I didn't think that he would lie to anybody, and especially us, so that was not his mo. You know, he would share

information even if it felt dubious. It was something that he believed to be the case, Surprisingly to everyone, including us, or at least including me. In July twenty sixteen, we began to find out that Tom DeLong was telling the truth because at this time this is when John Podesta's emails began to

come out in Wiki leaks. John Podesta was the manager of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, and we hear about all the time right now about the Russians hacking and sharing information that hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign, and of course Samola report, all of this is all about that. Well, in those emails that were leaked were a number of emails that were between Tom DeLong and John Podesta. So going back, some of the earliest ones who were from nineteen are from

twenty fifteen, and for instance, there were emails. One of those was really I felt was really interesting, and this is one that I think is very revealing. A lot of people have asked why Tom DeLong. Here's what I think is the answer to that question. In one of these emails, one from September twenty fifteen, this is from DeLong to Podesta. He wrote the general's thoughts and this apparently is regarding a memo that the White House would

release about UFOs. That's the assumption. And let me read this and let me see you guys could see what you think. But that seems to be the case general thoughts. It says I was thinking a bit more about a White House memo, or what a White House memo should say, something like these points to all federal agencies in light of the President's policy on stage M quote in parentheses citing official policy encouraging the study of science, technology, engineering,

and math some background on your project. The administration encourages a favorable public affairs position by all agencies. Appointees from NASA to lead this kind of public outreach is in NASA's job jar and if no agency is appointed, all will simple note and file the memo and likely do nothing and then finally to coordinate with d D, D, N, NOAA, the other major space actors, putting a bit of light on them. So this is really interesting.

This seems to indicate that Tom DeLong was working with John Podesta on a program, some sort of White House program regarding UFOs, and that you know, they were going to release a memo essentially asking everybody to take more of a positive look into the manner. I think that this note is actually really even more important than that too. I think this answers the question why Tom DeLong. Everybody asks why Tom DeLong? Why are they going to work with Tom

Belong. STEM is a big deal across the board, this whole Science, Technology, Engineering and Math initiative and to get kids interested in science. Scientists. I know from interviewing scientists and going to some of these events for the press with science, they're very concerned that science is not being taken seriously these

days. Maybe one of the main concerns is climate change. When you have the vast majority ninety nine percent of the scientists saying climate change is an issue human kind has had a problem creating all of this, and then when you have the politicians and others doubting that information, it's a huge red flag.

It's a very big deal for scientists right now because they're thinking, Wow, the public can be turned against us or to think that our information is not legit, which is scary because of course they are very careful at being rigorous and being unbiased in a present presentation of information, and that is very important. Despite what you may think, this is something that's very important in the scientific community. So there's lots of thought, how do we get kids into

science. How do we make sure you know science is something that people see is important and that people get to involve themselves. You get into science if you doubt our findings and in a scientific manner, doe to research write a paper show us wrong. And that so STEM is like a really big deal. If any of you who work in a science company probably know this because

you're hearing about STEM initiatives over and over again. I really think that it seems as though some of the inside guys that hey, this is a way Tom's interested in Why don't we use the whole UFO topic to get people more interested in science. Tom has a huge audience of kids, younger people. This is the way we get to the younger people, which we've been trying to do for so long. To me, this is what makes the most

sense. This is why they were talking to Tom. They saw Tom as their entrance, as their hook into the younger people out there, to get them to pay attention, that's my guess. But anyway to go further into that, actually, let's take a break right now. It's about time to take a break. Right after the break, we'll get more into these wiki leaks and what these wiki leaks said regarding Tom DeLong when we get back, So stay tuned to Open mind UFO Radio. Welcome back to Open Minds GUFO

Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas. So let's get into the last section of this. We were talking about Tom DeLong and these wiki leaks that came out that showed he really was working with the military. I told you just now about the wiki leak that talked about the STEM initiatives and how that was an important aspect to all of this, and that's why I think that they took Tom so seriously and why they wanted to work with him how

seriously. Well, we found out in these wiki leaks that not only was Tom DeLong talking with John Podesta, we also found out, you know, that he was working with another person named McCasland. This is a general who was in command of the US Air Force's research laboratories at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. We also found that John Podessa created a meeting with Tom DeLong. McCaslin and also a retired major general Michael Carey. He worked with the US

Air Force. He was the special assistant to the Commander of Air Force Space Command at Peterson Air Force Base Peterson is in California, or I'm sorry, Colorado, in Colorado Springs. Actually it's at the base of Norrad. So nor Rad was that, you know, it's a big mountain that we have a base under it. Also, there was an executive vice president and general manager of the Advanced Development Programs at Lockheed Martin. This is skunk Works,

So this is a different Skunkworks guy. His name is Robert Weiss, who also was in this meeting. So interesting that it's different than Steve Justice. A different person that's with to the stars. Anyway, we don't know what they talked about in that meeting. That meeting took place on January twenty fifth,

twenty sixteen, but we know the meeting took place. Also, there was another email on January twenty fifth where it appears that Tom Delo emailed John Podesta to say that, Hey, General McCaslin sounded like he was a skeptic in that meeting, but he's not a skeptic. He's told me a lot of different stuff and we've worked together over a period of time. So he just wanted to let John Podesta know that mccaslyn is not as skeptical as he

seemed in whatever meeting that they had. So all of this was going on even before he talked to the Rolling Stone. So he was absolutely telling the truth when he said he was having these very high level meetings behind the scenes with high level people in the government. He really was, and for that,

to the frustration of many people in the field. In February of twenty seventeen, we then gave at the International UFO Congress, which was owned by Open Minds at the time, and I certainly take credit for having a lot to do with this decision, even though people got so upset with me, even some of my friends gave give him the UFO Researcher of the Year Award. Now, he did say he was working on bigger and better things that

we would find out about soon. We didn't know what the heck he was talking about, but he said when he accepted the award, you know, look for bigger and better things that are coming out. I have a big announcement that's going to be coming out in the next few months. We gave him the award, of course, because he was making all these connections at

behind the scenes. He was bringing the UFO topic and making some major moves with these I mean right Patterson is where Bluebook was, and he's working with a guy who runs the labs at right Patterson Air Force Space Command. Enough said Lockey skunk works the area fifty one people. I mean, for God's sakes, he was getting to the top of the top. So that's why we gave him the award. And it turns out we were right to do

so, because major stuff ended up happening. So what happened next? What happened next, as far as what we knew, is that we waited and waited and waited, and Tom Blan kept saying. He was even calling me at time saying, oh, the news is going to come out soon. The news is going to come out soon. We'll go over in just a second why he had to wait so long, But yeah, we kept waiting for what's this news? Tom, come on, give us the news.

So everybody's waiting. People kind of almost gave up. People are telling me, wow, see, you shouldn't have given him this award. Finally October comes around and Tom calls me and he's super excited. The news is going to be about to be released. Here's what it is, and he sent me this video and asked me what I thought, and it was this video that was revealing to the Stars Academy, the organization that was starting, and I thought it was great. I was my jaw dropped because I didn't know

these names. These were a whole different group of credible people that he's working with with to the Stars than his previous meeting with John Podesta. So this is even more insiders that he's working with so closely that they're going to join this organization and create this organization to look for UFOs with him. So it was shocking news. The next day, on the fourth, it was announced

Leslie Kane write a well, no, I'm sorry. It was on the tenth that Leslie Kane wrote an article about to the Stars for the Huffington Post, giving a lot of details, and then the official press conference to announce

to the Stars was October eleven. So I had Leslie Kane on I think in October soon after the announcement to talk about her article and the organization, and one of the things that we were talking about was what's up with this guy named Louel Azondo who's saying he was an intelligent senior intelligence official and had been working about with a Pentagon on UFOs since two thousand and eight or something like that. We were like, WTF. This was extremely shocking to us.

Leslie and I kind of felt like, wow, it seems like are we the only only one who really care about this? Nobody's really mentioning it. Most people couldn't get over that it was Tom DeLong and they were upset that, you know, this goofy Tom DeLong guy their words, not mine, is involved with this stuff, so we can't take it seriously. Yet there's this guy who said he worked at the Pentagon working for many years investigating

UFOs officially. This is of course shocking because we haven't heard for decades that the government is taking UFO seriously or working on it. People like John Greenwald have got FOYA documents, and others, you know, Paul Dean, Keith Basterfield, some of these guys out there. Oh and let alone the old schoolers like you know, Stan Friedman, Barry Greenwood and some of these other document specialist guys who have gotten these documents to show that there have been some

UFO cases. These guys have taken seriously, but every time you ask, they send us to the Air Force UFO fact sheet that says we haven't been interested in UFOs since nineteen sixty nine. And then here we hear, yeah, yes, you know they have had this program. You know at this time, of course, it's the holidays and everything, and everybody's thinking, including me, I'm thinking, how do I get to this guy? How

do I interview this guy? And during all of this, December sixteenth, twenty seventeen, the Day of Infamy happened, and Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal and were able to along with another New York Times writer, and that's Sierrah Bo. I'm so sorry I forgot her name. I'll bring that up. But they all write this article about lou Elizondo and a tip, and of course that is what makes huge news and everything starts happening from that point on.

It was Helen Cooper was the other art person who wrote that article. But again then in January, I interview Leslie again and I'm like, what how did you do this? And essentially she took it upon herself. She Ralph Blumenthal is a writer writes for the New York Times. He's into UFOs as well, and they were like, you know what, we need to. I like this, this is a big, big deal. We need

to make this happen. So as I read in that thing earlier in the show, you know, she and Ralph went to the New York Times and said, look, this is a big deal. We need to write an article. They said, sure, but we're going to have to scrutinize the heck out of it and we're going to verify every little piece of minute information that you give us. So it took up a long time to write it, but they got it together. The story came out in December, and

the rest is history, really really important stuff. So that's how this all came about as far as getting released. But you know, I think what we need to remember here, and I'm going to reiterate this again, the history is really important. How put off Eric Davis, Robert Bigelow, Colem Kellahart, George Knapp, these are all people and John Alexander, these are all people who were involved with all of this for decades. Tom DeLong number one on top of that list. He not involved for decades, but for

a period of time. They took it upon themselves to go discover this information, to work on this information, to bring credibility to this information and to get this information to the public. It was years and years and years in the making. And nowhere in any of this at least have I seen or

been able to discover any hidden hand that has manipulated this whole process. And I've asked those involved, is there some sort of you know something at work here, this grand plan of soft disclosure, slowly telling people about the UFO situation so we can release more. And at least none of these people have said that they have any inkling of anything going on like that, And of course people are going to say, well, of course that you don't.

They're part of the conspiracy. But these are many different people. These are not necessarily people who are close or who work together a ton. Some of these people do work together a lot, but some don't. They're all different people, coming at this independently on their own. And I think that's really really important to keep in mind, because again, when you make and I really subscribe to this idea, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you're going

to claim that something else is going on, you need proof. You need to show that somehow, And trust me, I am looking for any improprietary discrepancy I can see, and I challenge I think all of you know that in my interviews. I even challenge Eric Davis on a couple of things last week. I will challenge the people I interview if I find information that is questionable so we can get answers. But I'm going to get into that now.

So I'm going to get into a tap and asapp and how that all came about and win because there's there spend a lot of questions around that. You know, when did this happen? When did that happen? And why are people saying things differently? And are there lying? You know, are people lying? Because I can't understand how this happened and that happened to what happened. And it's understandable that there would be questions because it is all very

very confusing. However, again, at least I haven't found anything to raise any major red flag. Certainly there are questions, but anything that indicates any sort of illegal activity or any sort of major manipulation. There have been people saying the wrong things, I think accidentally, but they're related to tiny what I feel are not that big of a deal. And you know, if you hear something differently let me know, and many of you do, and

then we discuss that or I go seek answers on that information. But let's go over some of that. So when did asap? What's going on with all of this? Despite what the New York Times said and the New York Times, if you review it and you know the whole story, they were actually very accurate. They just didn't have the full story. And a lot more has become public since then. So let's pick up how the heck did

this asap thing all happen? Well, we talked about how George Knapp and Clem Kellahar in two thousand and five released that book Hunt for the Skinwalker. It was a big deal. It did very well. Everybody who read it loves it. I think anybody who's read it and is into this stuff, it's one of their top, you know, books in their collection that they refer to an amazing book. I think just that, you know, these scientists go to try to figure out this phenomena and they're tricked, and they

say that they were outsmarted at every term. John Alexander says, whatever was happening, there is a pre cognitive sentient phenomena in other words that it was pre cognitive in that it seemed to know what they were going to do before they were doing it. It was cognitive or sentient in that it seemed to have an intelligence behind it. And so that's why he uses that term, and others are similar. We asked Eric Davis about that last week and he

said, yeah, it did seem to outsmartest. We couldn't figure out what was going on. So everybody con kelliher I've asked about this, they all pretty much say the same thing. I think George Nap when we interviewed him, so Skinwalker was a big deal. Well, it turns out a guy at the DIA heard about Skinwalker, and even the New York Times mentioned this, and that the DIA guy said, Hey, can I go meet you

at the Skinwalker Ranch. Now, the New York Times just referred to it as kind of a living laboratory for Bigelow and his research into the paranormal. They didn't get into the more detail like we have. And actually that played a bigger role than the New York Times. Apparently he even knew And I'll get into that as well, because when this DIA guy, and this wasn't

in the Times went to Skinwalker Ranch. There hadn't been paranormal activity in the ranch for a long period of time, but immediately in two thousand and seven, when this da guy visited the ranch, he had a paranormal experience that was supposedly a really big deal. It was very personal to him. He felt that, you know, I guess that, and this is according to George Napp in the interview, that somehow this phenomenon knew him. It was

very like personal, personal experience. So it had a really big impact on him. Although the d what the New York Times says is after the DIA met with Bigelow, that's when they approached Harry Reid to create this program to

investigate UFOs. But actually, and we learned this from George Napp and others, but George Naple our main source for this on our show, that George Napp, and I've actually gotten this from Loue Alizondo as well, that this DIA guy wanted to create a program to investigate Skinwalker Ranch and all the paranormal stuff that was going on there, including UFOs. Harry Reid said, great idea. He goes to Republicans Ted Stevens and Democrat Daniel Innue from Hawaii.

Ted Stevens is from Alaska. They got together and said, yes, let's do this. They were able to get the funding and in two thousand and seven the program began. Now here's where there is a bit of discrepancy. People have said, well not people have said, We've learned through George Knapp that the program that began in two thousand and seven was called ASAP, the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program, and that program was to research which all

of paranormal phenomena at Skinwalker Ranch, not just UFOs. So the question arises, why didn't the New York Times tell us about os APP. They only talked about a TIP and UFO investigation. Well, here's the answer to that question. Despite all the speculation and conspiracy theories out there, here's the answer I got from going to the source. And like I said, this is

one of those frustrating situations where nobody asked Leslie this except for me. Leslie essentially told me, in fact, let me get her direct quote for you, so I could say this, you know, directly from her. Here is her quote. At the time, our focus was a TIP. This was the name of the documents that we had, and this is what louel Izuondo had talked to us about in interviews with him, as did others associated in the program. So she's saying that we didn't know about a tip.

Essentially, they told us that or AHSAPP. They told us the program was a tip and it was about UFOs, and so that's what we wrote about. So the question then is why didn't anybody tell him about ASAP? So I went to Lou Elizondo and I asked him about some of the details. So what's going on here? Why didn't did the New York Times know about ASAPP? What he told me is essentially and I wrote this in a story called from Asap to a Tip. But he said and I got to say

in my article ASAP to a Tip, which clarifies all of this. I double checked with Lou that it was one hundred percent accurate everything that I put there. But essentially, he said, well, New York Times didn't ask me about ASAP. They asked me about a tip. I was involved with the A tip side of things and the UFO side of things, so they didn't ask about ASAP. I didn't feel it was my place to say anything about ASAP because I didn't run that program, so I didn't tell him anything

about ASAP. So it's that simple. That's why the New York Times wrote about a tip. So then the question is, well, what's the difference between ASAP and a TIP? And here's what is important to understand. ASAP was a paranormal project. It is about all the paranormal A TIP was about UFOs, And that's the simple way to put it. ASAP and a TIP,

there's ASAP was a paranormal a TIP was UFOs. Some people ask, well, why has Eric Davis like in our last week when I asked him about a tip and he said, I don't even know where they came with and Harry Reid pulled that out straight out of nowhere. Others have made some comments I think put off even where they weren't sure about how this had all

happened. That's because there was a lot going on behind the scenes that people weren't aware of that only had the administrators of the program like lu Elizondo and his superior or Harry Reid, were aware of. So not everybody knew. So how put up an Eric Davis? They were contracted by ASAP ASAPP when it was created, they you know, had a list of reports that they

wanted and they contracted out to get these reports. So all that you know, Davis and put Off, for example, who were the scientists creating these papers or working on organizing all that they knew? They were contracted by ASAPP

to do this, and that's what they were doing. You know, some of the information that we found out, and you know, bringing big Low involved and why he's involved, is that Bigelow was contracted by ASAPP to do some of the information to some of the footwork or most of the footwork. You know, this number of two twenty two million dollars has been batted around.

That's essentially the budget that ASAPP had that went to Bigelow UH to do this work, to hire people like Putoff and Davis to do all of this, and in fact, to do this work, Bigelow created a whole program, a new department to his Big Low Aerospace called BASS. BASS stands for Big Low Aerospace Advanced Space Studies. And there have been some questions about that. Bigelo said, in order to work with ASAP, I created this product,

this group called BASS Big Low Aerospace Advanced System studies. But some people have said, well ASAP started in two thousand and seven, but BASS didn't start to and you know, well Bass, they didn't begin or until two thousand and eight, So how could that have happened? What was that discrepancy of a year? Well, you know, just the program has to start before they hire a contractor. Because the program has to start, you need

to hire staff. You need this staff to figure out what they need as far as contract work, and they have to create the contract and all this work has to be done so then they can go out and solicit a contract for a program that's existing. That's what was going on in two thousand and seven. That's why BASS didn't really start and get contracted until two thousand and eight, for any of people that are curious about that piece. But so

anyways, the ASAPTA a tip, Why did that happen? Well, early on, as soon as they began, essentially they were getting it was this same religious cabal. It was the same people inside the government that had taken down the remote viewing that help would I've had experience with. They also felt that this paranormal stuff that was going on on Skinwalker, which is scary and weird had to have been demonic, and they were serious that they did not

want the government getting involved with this demonic stuff. How do we know this? We know this from George Knapp. He told us this when we did his interview. So Luis Alazanda wrote a Medium article where he also talked about this. He said, you know, these religious people, some of them are my friends. I think they're good people. They're they're doing what they think is best. I just completely disagree that we should put our heads in

the sand and ignore important data because we believe it's demonic. I mean that for him makes it seem like we should even more so want to be interested in researching it so we understand any potential threats. But these guys didn't want anything to do with it. So the writing was on the wall that ASAP was not palatable. In fact, that's the word that lou used. It wasn't palable, palatable to the DEA or inside of the DoD and so it

was going to go away. So what they did was they created this sub program inside of ASAP called a TIP, and a TIP was just going to be about UFOs and military UFO cases and that's it. And the The idea was that maybe if they started this more credible program that was just about UFOs and military UFO cases, that that would get left alone just in case ASAP was gonna, you know, not be able to go very much longer because of these attacks on the nature of what the work that they were doing.

And sure enough they were right. It did end. Officially, they moved from ASAP to a TIP in two thousand and nine. And this is what you know Eric Davis is talking about because in two thousand and nine, Harry Reid was essentially happy with the work that they were doing and he wanted to get them further access to information, so he applied for an SAP status for the group. An SAP stands for Special Access Program, so that way that's

essentially the black budget. This is essentially so they can start to get information from other black budget programs and be able to get more data and work on with and have access to other secret programs so they can start to get that data to do their work that sort of thing. It got denied. But in that letter which George Knapp and the Las Vegas now Klas Guys released,

Harry Reid referred to the organization as a tip. This was the first time, according to Eric Davis, he had heard this term ATIP, so he was confused. He's like, what I thought we were ASAP? Who's a tip? You know? That created some confusion, but they didn't know. This whole battle was going on behind the scenes and that you know. And actually this whole plan of theirs worked because at this time then a TIP was able to remain in existence while ASAP disappeared. So that's the difference. The

big thing to keep in mind. And I've said this over and over again, and I think it's just the best way to categorize it. ASAP was a paranormal. A TIP was a sub program in ASAP that was all UFOs. ASAP was scrutinized and essentially taken down by these religious cabals, these religious people who didn't want that program existing, and so it went away, but a TIP remained. Alizondo joined a TIP when he came into ASAP in two thousand and eight. It was to work on the A TIP side of things,

so that's where he was working. So and then later on when he took over a TIP, he actually moved it to where he worked, which was the office of the Secretary of Defense. So the program actually moved from the DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, over to the OSD, the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Technically it's kind of a technical thing, but that happened in twenty ten when Alizondo took over the program. So there's a

timeline that's essentially what happened. A couple other things that happened during this time. Interesting enough, there was the Mofon project, so I had mentioned that with Eric Davis. You know, Mofon partnered with BASS back in two thousand and nine. I was actually, essentially, I was a functional director, so I was in on board meetings. I was part of Moufon leadership when

this all went down. I was their spokesperson essentially. So in two thousand and nine, when this partnership happened, what I didn't know at the time was that, you know, BASS had this partnership with the DEIA, which is of course extraordinary, which is very interesting. So I asked, you know, Eric Davis, and I've asked Bass, but they haven't wanted big

low Aerospace. But they're they're very tight lipped. Essentially, my individual connections say they can't say anything and I've gone to the press department and they have not said anything either. They said they were working on getting me an answer, but they haven't. So they just don't want to say that Moufon was funded under this program. I don't know why they don't want to say anything, but they really don't say anything to anybody about anything. I think they

just want to keep at arms lengthd with all of this. So I haven't got a confirmation. Eric Davis said, I wasn't working on that problem program, but that's what I understand, And it would make sense because if BASS was created for the express purpose of working with ASAP and a TIP, then it would make sense that a Moufon partnership with BASS would be part of all

of that. So not that that matters really, I think too much, because it makes sense you're going to start looking at UFOs, Well, let's make a partnership with the people that are gathering the most UFO information and have boots on the ground investigating UFOs, so it makes sense that they would work with mouf On. That didn't work out very well. My personal kind of take on all of that is that Mofon is a you know, it's a

hobby kind of thing. It is a volunteer organization, so MoveOn doesn't have you know, permanent staff that can work with Bigelow's permanent staff to you know, interface in a way that they're used to working with third parties. It's a volunteer organization where people are doing their best when they have time. So it wasn't really as tight of or professional as a relationship as either groups kind

of had hoped for. Although I got to say for myself and I think the rest of the board and most of the people involved at Moufon, it was very fruitful and it was very it was a great relationship, but not everybody felt that way and things fell apart. But it was only a pilot program at first. That was the last few months, and then it ended at the end of that pilot program because it just wasn't going to work, as you know you can read about. So that's what it happened in there.

But that's the difference. That's why how ASAP turned into a tip. But another thing to remember is, you know, Elisondo was getting cases from the military, very good cases. Of course, the Nimas case was one of those, and that, uh, that was his job. He did not look into UFO history. He did not look into Roswell or you know, Bob Lazaar or Dulce or any of these other stories. Rendelsham let's say

he had not looked into any of that other stuff before. And the way he puts it, because that's what he tells us, is that he didn't want his mind to be He didn't want any preconceived notions set in his mind. He wanted to look at these military military cases and judge them on their own volition, of their own, you know, information that came along with them. And so that's what he did, and he found some very credible

cases. And he found that there are indeed instances where our military is interacting with technology that seems to be beyond what is humanly possible to make. And that really and this is somewhere another area where people have questions that really, to him was shocking. He tried to get that information up the ladder to say, look, we're getting into some really cool stuff here, but nobody seemed to want to take it seriously. That frustrated him. Eventually, he

leaves in early October. When he leaves, he says, and this is from my own interviews with him. He says that he really was just going to go get a job, hopefully do some work with UFOs because he had an interest, But he wasn't expecting to be, you know, mister UFO

truther or mister UFO disclosure or anything like that. But when he left, which makes sense because as we've talked about all these tie ins, people like hal put Off, who worked at with a Tip and Bigelow, you know, and is working with To the Stars people on the inside, you know. Somehow one of these people told Tom DeLong, Hey, this is a guy you got to talk to. Tom DeLong gets a hold of Alexandro and says, hey, I'm creating an organization to research UFOs with some very high

level individuals, some of them you worked with before. Would you be interested? And Alessando said, heck yeah. He loves this topic. His whole purpose was to share with the public these amazing occurrences. So he said, heck yeah, I want to join you. He joins to the Stars and he's been able to do just what he wanted to investigate this stuff, share

information with the public. The information that has been shared with the public has been so impactful to the public, that they have gotten a lot of attention

from leadership into all the military branches and the Congress. We know that the to the Stars, some of the Tow the Stars guys, along with witnesses from NIMTS, have been able to talk to several different committees at Congress, several different congress people and also military leaders, and that they did have a large influence on the Navy saying Okay, we're going to take this stuff seriously.

We're going to take reports seriously. And that's why these guys would know because they were there behind the scenes how this is going to play out in the future, and they are confident. Lou is confident that information will be shared from these the Navy cases with the public in the future. So there we go. I hope this cleared up a lot for all of you as

far as how this all worked. I will have more articles. In fact, I've written more articles that haven't been printed yet that outline different parts of all of that I went over, and I am also putting to this together in other formats for you all so you can have more comprehensive pieces of material

that you can review to understand how all of this happened. It's all very, very complicated, and you know, a lot of people I feel instead of getting into the details and doing the research, it's easier to make assumptions, and it's hard. You've got to have some discipline to say, hey, I can't make assumptions. I need to go find out what the deal

is. You know this. I need to ask lou this. I need to ask Leslie this, I need to ask how put off this or so and so that, And all of these people are accessible, especially the people that we need to question the most I found are some of the most accessible. So really, I think that it's incumbent upon us to do good research

and reporting to at least get their input first. Even if we have evidence to counter what they're telling us, or even if other parties say something different, then it's upon us to find out why are they saying something different? Why is Eric Davis saying, you know, he didn't know about a tip? And Harry Reid created the term a tip? Why as he said, he said, well, I didn't know, I didn't know any of that. Lou would know better, which is true, And so Louce told us

why this has happened. So all of these questions are discoverable. We've just got to ask those questions and you know, get into the mud, get into the details, because the details are important, and to me, the details tell a much more interesting story. They tell a story of this group of scientists and intelligence personnel who have for years been looking into UFO and paranormal topics and gaining ground. In many cases they have been taken very seriously for

goodness, through remote viewing program. We had an ESP group for decades that our top law enforcement agencies were consulting in cold cases to be able to solve these cases. And many say there's remote viewing projects that are secret that still exist, and we do know there are third party companies, remote viewing companies

that are contracted by law enforcement and others today in today's world. So I mind, gosh, how crazy is that, let alone all the wild stuff that happened at Skinwalker Ranch, and how that is all inspired you know, this governess resurgence and government focus on paranormal especially UFOs, and that we've got this billionaire Robert Bigelow who funded a lot of this and now he's building spacecraft with NASA he might be in and SpaceX and doing all this amazing stuff.

This story is huge, and it's terribly interesting and it's really fun to stay close to. And I don't think we have to fear being left out of the loop. And I think that's what a lot of it is. People are like, well, why can I be involved with any of this? Well, you can. You just got to be involved. You know, these guys are going places, they're doing stuff, They're going to different events. You can be there, you can meet them, you can talk,

you can be involved. You can get involved in the different forums that they're all talking at or looking at. You can watch the upcoming history show and share that information. Or you know, if you do find some problems, if you do find hey, this looks kind of fishy, let people know right about it, cite your sources, and it will be taken seriously. Some people have argued that they've pointed out problems that haven't been taken seriously.

I totally disagree with that, because I obviously have taken these things seriously. I've gone out to seek the answers to the questions that they're asking because I am taking it seriously. And I do think that they've had very, very valid questions. I just haven't felt that they indicated any foul play, that there could be prosaic answers to those questions. And you know, being someone who writes stories and interviews people on a regular basis, that's often the case.

I don't even go into interviews with preconceived notions practically ever anymore, because when I did that, and I think with most journalists this happens. You know, we end up being wrong. You don't know what you don't know. If you don't know the inner workings of an organization, you're not going to know why this happened or that happened until you ask, and then you get a better understanding, and then you know why this or that may have

happened. And often you know, it just makes sense. It's people trying to do their jobs and coming up with solutions or way to do things that you may not have predicted, so which makes complete sense. We don't do

these jobs. That's why I bring to the table the interviews that I do, people like Nick, I hope, people like John Alexander who have government experience working in these fields, Eric Davis, and then our buddies who are looking at all of this, like Joe Murghia and Mike Demante and Danny Silva who have questions and there's gaps in the information. We're all looking to get this information out because then we can all work together get this information out.

So I hope you appreciated this show. If this generated more questions for you, which I'm sure it did, you know, send those emails to contact at openminds dot tv or any other You can contact me via my Patreon or Facebook or Twitter. A lot of people are sending me questions. Send those my way. Because this interview with Lou and I is going to happen.

And even though we're waiting on the History Channel to kind of give us the green light on the interview, as you can tell from in between, the interview happened and now I get a chance to talk to Lou and I will get some answers to questions that arise in between then. So I'll keep asking questions until the interview. But hopefully the very next show will be the interview. But anyway, let me give you some other news otherwise. The UFO

Congress is going in full for us. We have lots of speakers being added to the list on a regular basis. So go to ufocongress dot com and look at the speaker list if you haven't recently, I mean I think there were new speakers added yesterday. As soon as I'm done talking to you here, I'm going to add more information. So lots of information going up there, and the speaker list is getting better and better, and trust us,

it will continue to get better and better. So check that out. Also, the save fifty I told you last week you could say fifty bucks on conference tickets. Well that's over. I'll tell you little sucret We have a save forty coupon so you can still save forty bucks. If you go and you order one of the package ticket ticket deals, use the code save forty, code save forty at checkout, that is, save all uppercase forty,

and you'll get forty dollars off your ticket package. When you go to ufocongress dot com and get tickets, you're gonna want tickets, There's no doubt about it. Go look at the list of people we have up there, great list of people, and we're gonna have more cool people at it, so you just you're gonna have to be there. Martin's gonna be there if you were here, he'll tell you next week, I'll have them tell you.

So check out UFO Congress dot com. There's also new products. You know, a lot of people are scampering for it and they're always wanting, Hey, where can I get that UFO hovering UFO Bluetooth speaker that I see behind you sometimes when you do videos and stuff, Well, you can't get that at the UFO Congress store. There's only a couple left. We got to batch in just a week or so ago, and like I told you,

they go fast and they are all almost gone already. But we still do have a few left, so you could go find those at the UFO Congress store. You can also get T shirts and stuff like that. Lots of that coolest kind of stuff there too, So check that out Ufocongress dot com and get there as soon as you can. Otherwise, go to Openminds dot tv to find all of the latest news and latest radio programs. Also, if you go to my Patreon or actually I have a blog Alejandro t Rojas

dot com. I always keep forgetting to tell people about my blog Alejandro t Rojas dot com and that's where I post all my stories some oftimes it's just links to my stories. But everything I'm doing you'll find at Alejandro t Rojas dot com. But you'll notice I'm posting lots of stories on my Patreon, and I am for my subscribers posting some exclusive stuff there. So at my Patreon you can find a lot of exclusive that you're not going to find anywhere

else. And in fact, I am going this weekend to David Marler's wedding and some of our UFO buddies will be there, so I'll get more there. The last piece I have was an interview with David Marler. He wrote a book about triangular UFOs, and he shared with us his favorite triangle UFO case and his thoughts on this Navy project. So he shared a lot of great stuff with us. Prior to that, I had what did I have? I had some other pictures and stuff. Oh, with our good buddy

who's speaking at the conference and is on ancient Aliens. He's one of the main dudes on ancient Aliens, and he needs a good buddy, good guy, David Hatcher Childress. So I posted a picture that he shared with me that you'll be able to see on there. So I've got more exclusive stuff coming up, at least on a regular basis or a weekly basis. I think I'll be sharing different cool stuff for you guys, and it's for you only, behind the scenes kind of stuff, really cool stuff. And you

can get that by being a patron on my Patreon site. And you know you can do that for as little as a buck a month, so and that's a huge help for me. So please do go do that. You'll get exclusive content and it'll help me keep in the UFO business. So for those of you who have done that, I want to say thank you,

and let's read down this list. So I want to say thank you to Kurt, to Kevin, to Tracy, to William, to Rob to Robert, to Carrie, to Don, to Marcel, to Dave, to Steve, to Brian, to John, to Ray, to Christine, to Brian, to Mitch, to Neil, to Dennis, to Patrick, to Larry, to Matt, Mitchell, Abraham, Alex, Michael, Nike, Nicole Duncan, Joe, Micah Darth, Sewan, Steve, Clinton, Ruben, Robert, Christopher, Jeff, Kevin, Craig, Jean, Pierre, Richard,

and Rory. I want to say thank you all so much for becoming patrons, and thank you all for the great response since I've been requesting for people to become patrons too. It's so much fun to have a community, you know, where we can share and all together have a fascination with this topic and share this credible, cool information. So thank you all so much for being part of the community. Thank you to Martin Willis for usually doing the news with us. Thank you, of course to Caleb Hanks who does

the opening end close music. Thank you to Systematics for the bumper music. And especially thank you to all of you, whether you're a Patron patron, Patreon patron or not for listening to the show. I hope you enjoyed it. Join us next week for another exciting show. I've got tons of interviews lined up, let alone the Yelisondo one really great stuff coming up, so stay tuned until next time. Audio Smooth touchost Motion