Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin main willis the main man. I'm the main man. Yes, not m A I N m A I N E. Oh so I'm not the main man, but I'm a main man because you live in Maine, right, I live in Maine. Yes. Yeah, We've had a last year. At this time we had a foot and a half of snow away until May, and this year short sleeve shirts. You know. Even I'm going to work on my house today and
I'm not even going to be wearing a jacket out already. It's been really really warm. That's like our weather. I don't mind global warming as long as it's seasonal. Yeah, and it doesn't affect you know, weather. But yeah, I mean, I'm loving It's been a great year so far. Kind of selfish feeling, we are, Yes, it is very selfish. I have a feeling that we are definitely going to be paying for it though. Yeah, yep, it's coming, baby, it's coming. So
speaking for it was cold and Arizona at Travis Walton's Si Fi. Yeah, that's where I was. I was gonna It's funny you use that segue because I was going to do the same thing. But I also wanted to mention one of the reasons I called you the main man is because during the news section, I want to talk to you about a case from Maine. See if it's near you. It's an interesting case. But we'll get there when we talk about the UFO news. But yes, the Travis Walton conference was
very chilly. There was ice on the ground. I haven't been around that sort of situation since I went home to Denver for Christmas last year. But it was very cold. You know, a lot of the Arizonians were really freaked out, talking like it's the coldest thing and they've ever experienced. But it wasn't that bad. I mean, you know cold, I know cold
being from Colorado. Cold is when your nose hairs freeze right where you have to have everything and you you know, and in cold places you experienced that a few times a year, so that's cool, But this was you had to have coat and stuff. And see Arizonans aren't They don't necessarily have a lot of cold or coats or jackets and things. So that's the other thing that they struggle with when they go to a cold place, right, at least the one's from the valley here where it's hot. But yeah, it
was a very fun experience. It went well, There was too much. It had snowed on Wednesday quite a bit and Thursday morning, and Thursday was November fifth, so that was the day. That was the actual fortieth anniversary. My beautiful and wonderful girlfriend Karen ran the whole thing. So I was getting played by place because I didn't come in till Thursday. I picked up some of the speakers and rented a van and drove up there on Thursday.
But she, unfortunately, and she was kind of scared worried about this, they had to cancel the excursion for that day. They did end up renting a couple four by fours, and people with four by fours were able to follow Travis up and we were able to secure a spot in one of those four by fours for Michael Klein, our video guy, and so he got out there. And you're saying they don't plow the roads basically where this location is, Oh, well, where the location is deep in the forest.
I mean you have these semi maintained dirt roads like logging roads. Yeah, exactly logging roads that you have to go for for a few miles. And not only that, when you do get to the logging road they used to use, which you can't even see from the road. You just have to
know where it is, like Travis knows where it is. But you know, they haven't logged in that area for a long time, so that road has been abandoned for decades now, so it's overgrown and it's hard to just distinguish where the logging road was compared to you know, just the regular ground out there, which of course is pretty rocky, lots of big rocks. Hard to get out there, so so usually that last leg you have to walk about a quarter mile out to the location. So a few people did
get out there. They had to walk in some fairly deep snow. But Michael got his camera out there, and if you watch our UFO report for this last week on YouTube, you'll see some great footage that Michael got. He used a camera. He also used this thing that kind of you put on a slider and it slides slowly so it gives you this three D effect, so cool. So we got some awesome footage that is there on our UFO report so you can see the area. And Travis and John Goulette.
See I called him Gulay, which I think is you know, the proper way, but he said that's not my name, so he uses Goulette. But so that was fun for people. It was unfortunate. Luckily they did another excursion Sunday. Everybody was able to get out there then and just a bunch of people and they were able to get to the site with Travis and he walked him through everything that happened and everybody had a good time. So
and the talks went really well. Everything went very smoothly this year. Travis, if you see him at a conference, like some of you might have seen him, he was at the Paula Harris had a conference this past weekend and she also was at Travis's conference just days before her own. But Travis was there, and I know he does quite a few talks throughout the country. But if you see him, he has DVDs that we made from his event and then at Open Minds and I wanted to talk to you about this.
We will have DVDs available of the main event because Michael recorded, because I cobbled together the av and DVD stuff for Travis, which was some literally me and my girlfriend getting some stuff out of our closets and dusting it off and using some other stuff. We had some excellent help out there. These amazing people, Uh, Dennis Feathermuth and his son Aaron were helping us. Dennis is the director of investigations for Arizona Move On and one of the best
directors of investigation I think in the whole country. H this guy's great. But he also owned Sunburst Video in Casa Grand and he and his son helped out with the video side. And then a couple named Michael and Andrea Bolo, who Travis meant at Contact in the Desert also volunteered to help. And Michael to the a V and his wife did a lot of other stuff. And these guys were amazing. They were the best volunteers you could ever hope for. And they'll be helping us at the UFO Congress as well. But
so the av went smooth. But Michael, of course he's got We've got our open mind through all high deff stuff. So these videos look really great, and Michael's just got to clean him up and make an intro and extro and we'll have the two panels, and there was a witness panel and an investigations panel. The witness panel included Mike Rogers, and that was really exciting. If you've seen the movie Fire in the Sky, he was the main character. He was the one driving the truck, wasn't he exactly? He
was a guy driving the truck. He was a crew chief. He was also the brother to Travis's wife. You know, he Travis married Mike's sister soon after, you know, the events had had taken place, and they were dating during the time. Then the investigation panel, the most exciting part of that, well, there are a couple. One of them was Don Walton. He's Travis's older brother, and I thought he was the guy who answered the phone when Travis called, but he wasn't. However, he still
was you know. The family, of course was it was a very traumatic experience and he was with his mother, Travis's mother and of course Don's mother and looking after the family. So he talked about that experience and then also Chuck Ellison, and Chuck Ellison was the police officer first met. I wanted that went great, So I'll start with Mike Rogers. What was interesting about Mike Rogers was with John Goulette and Travis during that panel. What was interesting
about that panel was, I think there were a few different things. One of them was that you could tell and it kind of played out. It was kind of a touching moment, you know, in the whole process that Mike Rogers really still had some guilt about leaving Travis, and I think he even was unsure whether or not Travis harbored any anger towards him for leaving. And he actually verbalized that, well, I asked, I went there because
I you know, you only have this one chance. And that was kind of the difficult part, is getting to this really important stuff in a sensitive and careful manner. And I think we did, and I think if people see the interview, it played out well. But he had mentioned that, you know, I have guilt, you know, maybe I shouldn't have left, and Travis said, no, these guys are heroes to me. They did what they should have done. I was the dummy who went out there.
They shouldn't have, you know, risk getting themselves killed. They should have taken off, and he kind of murmured under his breath, Mike Rogers, Yeah, well, if you were conscious, maybe you would have thought different. And so I said, Travis, what about that? Because he, you know, Mike Rogers kept kind of mumbling stuff and he was closest to me, so I would let people know what he mumbled most of the
time. So, because it was, you know, something to explore and I wasn't doing it, some people were like, oh, you were trying to create some controversy or something, and that wasn't it. It was that I've spoken to Travis. You know, he lives here in Arizona. We spend a lot of time together, so I know Travis's perspective, and I would have brought it up differently if I knew it was something Travis was angry about. But I know Travis's perspective, and I thought it was important for
Mike Rogers to hear it. And Travis said, no, even if I was conscious and I saw you guys take off, I wouldn't blame you. You know, it was a dangerous situation. That was the right thing to do. And so I asked the crowd. I said, you know, I've been in this field for a long time. I go to a lot of conferences. We do conferences, you know, I talk about Travis's case
a lot. I think most people agree with Travis, And I said, what do you think, audience, you know, and everybody, overwhelmingly it was just all you know, feel the same that, Hey, you know, it probably was wise to leave Travis. You never you can always speculate or have hinz about a situation, but until you're in a situation, you never really know what you're going to do, you know. I mean there was a pandemonium in the truck, you know. I mean just imagine being
there. They didn't know what to do. Fleeing is just you know, the fighter flee you know, you're just it's kind of almost like an instinct. Yeah, just you know, save yourself, get out of there. Yeah. Yeah, you know. There was a guy we're talking to this weekend, the Phoenix move On. A lady who runs at Stacey had some
people over and we were kind of talking about the conference. A lot of them were the volunteers and stuff, and one of the guys in the military is like, you know, that just kicks in and you just go, you know. And if I was Mike Rogers, responsible for all the men in the truck, he should have left. I mean, he can't put their lives in danger. He needs to make sure they're safe before dealing with
that. I think I would have done what he did, not because oh Travis was being dumb, but also because think of if really they had this huge, big craft in this field, that would be very ominous. You don't know what the hell this thing is capable of. They saw a shootout array, you know, and shap him, whether it was intentional or not. You know, Travis comes to the idea that it was unintentional, just that he got near some type of electromagnetic force or whatever that zapped him.
But you see a zap coming out somebody getting zapped, you know, you have to fear for your life because you know, they thought he was dead. Yeah, and I don't know about you, but of all the people I've talked to, you, you and I and we talk about this sometimes we hear from a lot of honri people, and I've never heard anybody say, oh, those guys shouldn't have ran and left Travis. I don't think
I've ever heard anybody say that. No. Never, Yeah, well boy, that what a burden for Mike Rogers to have on himself for all these years. But you know what, he seemed really happy when the crowd acknowledged you know, Travis is feeling and I think that he maybe in the past had not felt that. Maybe Travis was was being completely open with him when he said that. But I think that, you know, Travis was so emphatic about his feelings on the stage and willing to share that with the whole
world. I have no you know, anger towards what they did at all, and the crowd then acknowledging it, I think made him feel relief. It's almost like you could see it on his face there on stage, so it was really cool. Must have been quite a moment. Yeah. The other aspect which was interesting was with all three of them is the scrutiny that they faced even afterwards, and they all kind of represented something different. Where like John Gulatt he was like, I don't want to live in a town
where people think you're a liar, so I left. I moved away, and Mike was like, well, you know, I kind of laid low, but I moved. I didn't move away, but I've moved a little further into the next town. And Travis was like, you know, I wasn't going to let them run me out. I'm going to stand my ground and live my life. I don't care what they think. I was not gonna leave and let them run me out because they're closed minded and they can't listen to what I had to say. So so that was kind of cool
too. So the interactions I think are really important for people to see because you just get the sense. I just again, I've never seen with these guys who you can tell are just down home, regular guys. I haven't seen any indication of them, you know, fooling people or perpetrating a hoax. I don't think that they are the type that could could do that successfully with it would be so elaborate. And one thing you have to really note here is the story has never changed. You know, from day one,
It's always been exactly the same. And you know, the lie detector tests you can go on and on and on, but when you're when you're standing face to face and talking to these guys, I think you have a pretty good thermometer whether they're bsing or not. And I've never felt that. Yeah, I've only met Steve and you know, Travis many times, but Steve Pearris is the only other one of the gang there. I ever, Yeah, who was supposed to be there, but his truck broke down so he
wasn't able to make it. But we also did talk a lot about Phil Class because they had so much trouble with him and he, you know, attacking them publicly. And even the ten thousand dollars did the ten thousand dollars it did? Oh yeah, it did come? Which is that apparently Phil Class tried to pay one of the guys to say it was all a hoax, the youngest, and luckily he did not. And why would Steve Pearson, Why would someone do that? Yeah, why would anyone pay ten thousand
dollars to have someone say something? Well, you know, they all feel that Phil Classes working for the government. I know a lot of people feel that way, that he was paid to debunk these cases. I don't know about that. Travis has gotten a lot of some done FOYA and gotten foya's and gotten some information to show that the FBI was watching Phil Class and they thought he was a kook. They didn't believe him, they thought he was a goofball. And you can see these in the files online. I think
John Greenwall has them as well. But and I know who else Kathleen Martin has those files also, So yeah, they're really interesting, which just indicates to me that I don't know that they I don't think they trusted him, and I don't think that's why they would work with him. But I could see why they would feel that way because he was so dead set against the case and wanting to make it look ridiculous, even though, like Travis says, he never once interviewed or talked to Travis. H Wow, yeah,
wild, that is amazing. So the other panel, which was a lot of which was really great, of course, was the Chuck Ellison one. And Chuck Ellison was great. This guy is just he was funny. You know, he's an old guy now and he's but he was straight on. He was like that cop that pulls you over that is just on it, you know that you try to mess with and he's just doesn't get phased ever and it keeps a straight face and is really you know, funny. Wow.
So did he talk about his the whole transition of you know, when they of that whole situation. So yeah, So what was cool is he talked about how when and essentially the dispatch police dispatch for the area was his house, so his family would take the calls. So they yeah, exactly, so they took the call when the guys, you know, when Travis
got zapped and they came back and they couldn't find him. That was another thing that Mike Rodgers had said, which was kind of funny because they kind of were at a dead end when they took off, so they had to turn back and they had to go near the site. And he did say, guys, if you don't want to come, I understand, but they didn't have a choice. It's either come back to the site or be left in the middle of the woods in the dark. And so I had no
idea that. So they weren't exiting. He just took off and it wasn't the best direction, so they had to turn around and they would have gone near the site again anyway when they were leaving, so they passed the area. But once they got out, you know, they called the cops at a phone. That was Chuck Ellison. He said, well, let's meet, you know, nearby where you're at, and so he went and met them and he said, you know, these guys are freaked out. They're
crying there there. It's it's they're obviously scared, and he talked about it was interesting because it's interesting to see it from his perspective. From him his perspective, this was a missing person's thing. He doesn't know what's going on. All he can do is take in the data of what they're saying. He doesn't believe him. He doesn't not believe him. He just listens and goes acts on it. They go look for Travis, they don't see him. They get you know, mount a search where they have a bunch of
volunteers and they start looking and he organizes this. Five days later. This is you know, shortening everything. Five days later, Travis comes back and the case is shut. They no longer have an interest. It's done. And I guess I never thought of it that way, you know. And people were like, well, isn't this still a crime? He was abducted, he was taken, and they're like, you know, and people kind of had a hard time with that, but he's just like, look,
we don't have a necessarily a suspect. Nobody is talking about a suspect. The families weren't asking us to go after anybody, because, as we found the families believed he was taken away by a UFO. The families actually had seen UFOs, so there's no kidnapping type of situation. Yeah, so it wasn't like a kidnapping thing. There was nothing further for them to do, so the case was closed. He said, no, case is completely closed. If there was some sort of evidence that came out that showed there was
some sort of crime, then we would have pursued that. One guy tried to say, well, since you didn't pursue them as criminals, then you're saying the police force saying they believed him. And he's like, well, no, people lie to us all the time. That doesn't mean we pursue a crime. Every time we pull someone over they lie to us. Practically everybody we talked to lies to us. That doesn't mean we put all those people in jail. He's like, I'd be pretty busy if I was putting
people in jail that lie to me. So it was really interesting that perspective, and we also got to find out I think what's interesting is were the guys, the loggers upset with the police over how they conducted themselves and they weren't. Mike Rogers said he was pretty upset during the time and everything, but he now sees in Travis, you know, he's just a mellow guy.
They now see those guys were doing their job and they actually appreciated that they were doing their job and they were looking for Travis, and so they have a positive perspective about the police and the job they did throughout this whole thing, which is really interesting also. And it turns out Chuck Ellison in the end believes them. He's also had a UFO siding and he told us about his UFO sighting and he thinks they're telling the truth, and he thinks
that there's UFOs and weird stuff out there. Essentially, you know. One of the things that like when I spoke with Michael Schrmer, you know, I mean, and other people that have tried to debunk the case have said, you know, while Travis was hiding out in the woods, you know, for those for that five days or whatever, can you imagine that you saw what the temperature was, How someone could hide out in the woods for
five days? Oh, I know, in November at night it is below freezing up there, and if it snows, you know, and ice, I mean everything. It's one of those things if you live in a cold area, which most of us do. I mean not all of us are lucky enough to live in like California or out here something, but during the winter, but you know, you everything freezes. So yeah, how he
would survive out there? You know during this man hunt with people having to have I would have had to have been taken care of him, or he had to have been in a shack with a fire or something, so that doesn't all pan out. We also explored the idea of their just trying to get out of a contract. And I think one thing people don't realize is that the people they had to contract with signed an affidavit saying that's not the case, that that that's not how this works, you know that, And
they explained how you mean they don't have an alien abduction clause. Yeah, well, and that's exactly one of the aspects that came up. Best case scenario alien abduction would fit under act of God, which is you know, kind of weather and stuff like that, and that's what they call it. Lots of contracts have an act of God clause, meaning that you know, if there's an earthquake or something, you know, you can get out of
it or something like that. They didn't have control. Yeah, they didn't have a clause like that, So that wouldn't have even worked had they had it. But that you know that, just whatever, this scheme wouldn't have worked. So it's not something that they would even think of if they were going to get out of a contract. That's not how you would go about it, even if you wanted to do it in an uh, dishonest manner. Now, when you had the police officer speaking, did you have do
you have him on film? Oh? Yeah? And what did did he say? Did he personally believe the story or not? Did he actually get into that? Yeah, in the end he does. He said he did believe them. Yeah, he in the end he does believe them. And this is what's interesting when Karen, you know, my girlfriend who organized this whole thing, she did the research to find a lot of these people herself, and unfortunately she did find some other people related to the case that just
couldn't make it. A lot of these people don't have money, they're aging, they're sick. Even Chuck Ellison was really sick. He having he was just in pain. He had fellen fallen or something like that, and it was in a lot of pain, but so not all of them were able to make it. But she found Chuck Ellison and so she brought him, and you know, Travis nor anyone hesitated. When she's like, oh,
I found Chuck Ellison. That would be great if we had him at the conference, Travis is like, yeah, great, he didn't ask, well, does he believe me? What is he going to say? He didn't ask that once. That's great. So these people really had no idea what he was going to say. Karen did because Karen had talked to him quite a bit over the weeks before the conference, so she had somewhat of an idea, but not at first. But Karen, of course, is you
know, just looking for answers like us. She's not like a blinded you know, Travis Walton follower or something. She just is wanting to find out the truth and get everybody's opinions out. So nobody knew exactly. He could have come and said these guys were lying. I thought they were lying from the beginning. I think they fixed the light detector tests. You know, he could have said all of that. Nobody really knew until he got there.
And it was funny because I asked him, how long has it been since you've seen these guys and he said, I don't know, it's at least thirty eight years or something, and there was a gasp in the crowd. They were like, oh, you know, and a lot of these guys don't talk to each other often or don't see each other often. It's every few years sometimes, you know, decades go by, so they're not like, you know, keeping in contact constantly. They only see each other,
you know, rarely. So so, yeah, so that was really interesting, good stuff, man, Yeah, really cool. And yeah, I have not even mentioned the guests that I've got on the show. It's not Martin as great as that would be, but at least we get to spend some time. But the guest I have it's a short interview, so I asked Martin, you know, hey, let's let's talk for a while about Travis Walton because the interview is with a gentleman named Kapio Kanaga Karraga,
and he's really nice guy. And that's why I'm airing the interview because it didn't it wasn't what it was supposed to be. So the marketing girls, in her email to me said Oh, this guy is really into extraterrestrials. He's doing this music project. He's a musician in London, and I always love interviewing people from far away, you know. But he's in London and he's a musician, and he's got all of these other famous musicians together and
they're doing this space opera. But he's one of his main goals is to bring awareness to extraterrestrial information and that they're here, and la la lah this and that, and so I said, that sounds great. He was into Billy Meyer. I am not so much into that case. I think a lot of it is not real, but but you know, I appreciate other people's opinions. And I wanted to ask him, you know, about these
other musicians about why he's interested in this topic and everything. And it turns out he is interested in the topic, and we did talk about that, but he's it's not about extra tresturals and extratreustural and education and information. When I read them the sentence from the promoter that I got, he's like, well you'll hear. He's like, I don't know who wrote that, you know, so well you'll hear. Because people get to hear how I'm trying
to figure out. Wait, I thought this is going to be something else, what are you going to talk about now? But he was still really interesting, and he did talk about his interest in the topic and why he believes that he does believe in the topic, and some of his friends who have told him about this stuff. So it is it was interesting. It's kind of short, but we'll also play his music, which is he says
channeled. He says a lot of his music, not all of it, but a few years ago he began meditating and his music would come from his meditations, and we talk about where he thinks that comes from. He doesn't think necessarily it comes from ets. He's not sure where it comes from, but it just kind of comes to him this music, which is kind of
neat. So we'll play one of these songs and talk about that, and especially for you UK listeners, you'll know some of the pop musicians that he is working with because these musicians I was asking around, I don't know so much because they're British stars. But one of them you will recognize you, Shaka Khan m Yeah, so we all know her. So. Yeah, So that's the interview coming up in a moment. However, we got to talk to some UFO news. Still right, Oh and you like me to
start right, Yeah, let's talk some news. But all right, all right, Well, this case I'm going to talk about took place in a town called Olivia, Minnesota. And it always interests me when someone talks about UFO occupants. So this Minnesota witness describes these UFO occupant occupants. And this was written by Roger marsh on November fifteenth. And what happened is this woman
was driving back from Dairy Queen and she saw this low flying object. First of all, she thought it was a plane, but noticed it didn't have any of the marking lights on it. But she saw lights on it. But what she noticed right away was is there were large rectangular windows and it was sort of a like missile shape. Now, nowhere in the article can I see any anywhere that it talks about any type of wings or anything.
So just set a missile shape with large rectangular windows. And she actually saw occupants that actually were looking out of the window, and that that's baffling. And there's so many different things you can think of when you think about is this time traveling? What is going on here? You know, in a situation like this, those cases have always fascinated me, like father Gil, and there's a number of them, the the the the school children and and
where was it? Yeah, all that, so that's always intrigued me. And what is going on here? Well, she did get some pictures of this, uh, but it was just all you can see is like a bunch of lights. It's kind of hard to figure out, and the lights are kind of scattered, almost like in a triangle. But anyway, it moved over the treetops. It sort of came right at her and then moved
over the treetops and then kind of disappeared. But she there's a drawing if you look at this article, there is a drawing of of these like two figures in each window, big rectangular windows. It's kind of a dark object too. And interesting case. Yeah, this was a fun one because the object moved towards her. And she even said one of the things about it was the windows were too big then a regular plane, and she could see the people inside. So yeah, really interesting case. And like you,
they're they're rare when people see inside the objects. Betty and Hill kind of right, and when you talk about the large windows. You know, it's like we're you know, being observed or it's just for observation, which is really baffling. Yeah, And I don't know about the time dravels just kind of one of those things I brought up. But I mean, who knows, who knows? Right, No, I think that that's a valid speculation, just as valid as anything else we don't know. Yeah, but why
would they watch them come back from dairy Queen? Yeah, I don't know. It's a really big event. You know. You understand when people say like the Foo fighters, the historical events or whatever, but this is just you know, who knows. Yeah, But I mean if you're if you are floating above the pyramids, Let's say they come back and they're they're floating above the geese of pyramids or something. You know, there's a Kentucky Fried
Chicken there. Doesn't mean they're coming to look at the Kentucky Fried Chicken. But but they do see the people, you know, so it could be something else in the area they were interested in. Right, Well, well it's a good one anyway, I think. Yeah, it is a good one. This is a good one. Okay, my turn, All right, I really like this one, and I took a while to write about
it, even though I want into for a long time. But other stuff kind of happened, and I think this is fun because this guy, Jim Blackwood, he used to be a Royal Canadian Mounted Police in seventy eight in the town of Clarenville in Canada, and he recently posted a YouTube video of him being interviewed about a UFO siding that happened back in October nineteen seventy eight. And this was a really big deal and the media went crazy about it
back when it happened. So also this Canadian newspaper, the Packet, also wrote about this video that he recently posted and they interviewed him as well, so I was able to get some more quotes, which was really cool.
But this guy was twenty five years at the time. He gets a call that people are seeing something strange off the coast, so he goes there and he says that in between Clarenville and Random Island, which is that far off the coast there at Clononville, there is an object, a strange object off the water, hovering there that they watched for two hours. So he says that the object probably wasn't too far, maybe one hundred feet off the coast.
There was a person there with binoculars, but he actually had these super high powered telescope type of thing that they used for looking for drug runners, I guess, looking at planes and stuff. And he was able to train this on the object, and he said it had like a texture on It wasn't necessarily just a flat metal, but kind of a texture. It was a cylindrical shaped object, cigar shaped is what he called it, with just kind of some kind of wing in the back or some kind of thing that
poked up in the back. He said it was larger or as large as a Boeing seven thirty seven. That he is an aircraft enthusiast, and he couldn't figure out what this was and really interesting sighting and what happened at the time. They watched it for two hours before it took off. He said when he had gotten there, he turned on his police lights and it turned on some lights as well the object, and that really scared people. They're like, what the hell are you doing that for? And he's like,
well, I want to see if it would do something. And they thought that was a terrible idea, so they left because they got scared some people, but there was at least a dozen people there, he said, watching this thing with him, and he reported it and it went into the news. This is an interesting aspect too. When he got back to the office, he said he wasn't going to talk about it to anyone. He didn't want his fellow police to make fun of him. He just wanted to forget
it. Ever happened, He didn't talk about it at all, but he started. The media caught a hold of it and they started and his superiors told him to do every interview, to take every interview request, so he did. He said, yeah, isn't that weird. So for the next two weeks, he said he was getting paid just to stay home and do interviews with CBC and TV BBC, these are all probably Canadian news outlets. But he said he just did tons and tons of interviews, and so it
went really big. They did. The local businesses started to do flying saucer kind of products and sales, and the town got to be known for UFOs and stuff. But he said, actually it was kind of annoying because people, you know, did see him as the UFO guy, and he eventually left the area and because it was so embarrassing and never talked about it once he left, And for some reason, and I'm not sure why, he decided recently to post this video his other videos on his YouTube. He's got
a couple of him. He calls himself the Raccoon Whisper because he's got raccoons that come into his yard. And he also, I guess, was on the Close Encounters TV show. You've probably heard about this because Leslie Kane is on it. I know Nick Pope, and they all say it's really great. Well, we've talked about it, and it is, but it's only being aired in Canada. It hasn't aired here in the United States yet,
but it's supposed to be a really good UFO program. Now. I wonder if like Wilbert Smith got involved in investigating this thing, not that I know of, not that I've seen in any of the research I've done, but it's entirely possible. I know he was around a long time ago, so I'm not sure if he was still active in the seventies or not, but yeah, it's entirely possible. He said there was an official investigation and they
said it was Jupiter or something ridiculous like that. And he called the guy who determined that and yelled at him and the guy that tail on it. You know. Yeah, yeah, so that did seem pretty ridiculous. So that was a good case, pretty interesting one. Yeah, that's great. You know, I love these old cases. You know a lot of people say there's no good new cases or whatever, but still it's it's really great to revisit these and sometimes something comes out of it when you do. Yeah,
yep, you know, like a new perspective or something. Well, I guess one more. We do have a couple of videos like this one from El Salvador with with some pictures of orbs, which is kind of interesting and a really short video clip. Also, a Houston person tweeted a video of a UFO but and that got some attention from local media. But it really looks like a reflection from something inside of his car. But you could take a look at that. But this is a one from Maine that I
wanted to talk about. I was curious just if it's close to you or not. This guy is a commercial pilot and he was driving with his wife at about eight pm on October fifteenth. He was going. They were at the top of Tory Hill on Curesarge Mountain Road. Do you know where that is? It looks like it's near Salisbury or something. M Man's kind of a big state. Yeah, lots of stuff out there. Well, I was hoping you knew where this was. Sure, Oh good, good,
you know where it is? So anyway, but he saw this small light and it began to come closer. Then it turned into two rectangular objects. And they got home and his wife went to go get the mail and he stayed outside to to try to get some pictures of it or something. And he said it went by and it made this extremely loud, roaring noise as if he says, as if a four engine piston powered aircraft was illegally low overhead. Because he's used to aircraft because he is an aircraft pilot. So
he is a really weird case, really interesting. I think it's always find it fascinating when they say they, you know, change shapes or or whatever. So I was trying to find you said it was Cure Stage Mountain. Yeah, yeah, they're in the in the story. There's a map of the area and okay, uh no, it's Snare Pumpkin Hill it is okay, and Kimball Hill all right, all right, and Waterloo it's near Waterloo. These are places I've never heard of. Like I said, Maine is
a big steak. It can take you almost a day to drive from one end of it to the other. And I'm it takes me two hours to get to my house from the border of Maine, and I'm I'm considered southern Maine. Well, just keep an eye out for this thing flying around that's really loud. And yeah, you can never hear of the hardly ever hear of anything with noise. Yeah, sometimes you do, but it is more rare. Yeah. Yeah, interesting, very well, It's been a lot
of fun. Yeah, so thanks for spending time talk to me about this stuff. And we'll go ahead and listen to our interview. But you take it easy and we'll talk to you soon, buddy, you bet, all right, Thanks all, thank you. All right, So let's go ahead and talk to Tapio. All right. I am excited to have on the show Tapio. Come guys, welcome, Thank you. All right. So you all contacted me. Now you're a musician, Correig. That's cool. Yeah, and maybe you can tell us a little bit about your background of
music. Well, finnely enough, I was sort of trained or educated in the USA quite a while ago. That was like late eighties. I got a bachelor in music or mainly sort of music composition. I studied at the Clarion University in Pennsylvania. I don't know if you ever heard of that one. It's a very very tiny university. But I actually got my start long before that. I am My dad is a musician, so he sort of
made me play different instruments and I studied that. I actually attended like a special music school from law grade, third grade on I think the four and when I studied at my you know, my hometown conservatory. So I was quite serious about it. So it was sort of a natural move to go
to university, and in this case it was quar A University. I had my first I for my first band in the States as well, and that was actually called the Spacer, which is the name of my current It doesn't really have anything to do with that, man, I just I just liked the name. I actually linked it off Isaac Asimov's one of his boots. I think spacer actually means a like a space pilot. I could be.
I could be wrong because it's it's been a while, well it would fit if it doesn't, it could, I mean, but yeah, everything sort of goes back to back to the States, to be honest. So that's you know, the spacer, although doesn't really have anything to do with the
current project. My well, myself and and the other guys in the band, we had a great fascination for, you know, anything anything space, anything sort of science fiction related topics, and I've I've always had that sort of fascination for for anything like that, and I just wanted to sort of pursue that ankle with this current space of project. That makes any sense, well, and we'll get into two more of that. But eventually you moved to London, which is where you are now. Have you been there for
quite some time? Yeah? I did. Actually, I sort of pursued my music studies and I came here to do my masters. That was back in nineteen ninety nine something like that, and I sort of the stayed. Obviously, London is the center for at least for the sort of for the European music scene, probably for the whole world as well, so it's a good place to live in you know, in terms of music and the whole music industry. So, and you've also done a lot of work doing television
themes. That's correct. Yes, I think I'm lucky with that. It's not exactly. I mean, obviously I have a degree in music. It makes it a bit easier for me to create that, you know, that type of music. But to be brutually honest, it's not really my couple of tea as they say. Probably a way to make some money, but not where your your creative interests lie exactly because it's it's quite limits of what you can do. You basically just doing work for somebody else and you sort
of have to follow their you know, guidelines and references as ye. Are there any like really big television shows that you made the themes for that maybe we would recognize? Doubt? I doubt it. I mean obviously I've sort of worked with guys from BBC that I've never actually had anything played on BBC. But I backing in Finland where I'm from, I've written I don't know, like two different TV tunes. But unfortunately, you whatever, you didn't
do that. You didn't do the intro for the X Files, No, unporsonately not but speaking of X files, and that's what we're here to talk about. You have an interest in extra treast urals and UFOs and how did that begin? When did you get interested in that topic and why? That's a good question. It's kind of hard to sort of pinpoint any any sort of particular time or place for that. I think I've had that sort of fascination ever since I was a kid, because I do remember, I don't
know if you ever read the books by Bills the Mass. You know, there was a film called Son Carter a few years ago, but they're based on his books. I obviously, you know, obviously read them in finish, so I'm just trying to translate. I think there was a book called The Princess of Mars, and you know there was a whole bunch of Mars
with the Lady Books. It's the same guy who wrote a books, Edgar Writs b I think so every you know, ever since I sort of learned to read, I've been sort of, as I mentioned earlier, fascinated by any anythingthing to do science fiction stories. So I think those must have been the first ones I read. And obviously when I was old enough to go to the movies. I would just watch any any sort of science fi film. I think the first one I ever saw was really By with Scott mm
hmm. Did you Did you ever have a UFO siding of your own at all? I'm not sure, to be honest, I've had a couple of a couple of incidents that I've sort of wondered, you know, I've seen strange lights going up and down, but I never have any sort of official compilation on those sides. I'm not yeah, to be honest, I'm not really sure whether I have or not. And but this current project you're working on is in part or from what I understand, to bring awareness too.
And maybe you can explain exactly if I'm mistaken awareness to the idea or that extraterrestrials are visiting us now. Yeah, So, just to go back to a previous question, I do actually remember seeing it was like an exhibition of Billy Myers photographs, and that was probably the first time I was in sort of in contact with that sort of things. And and this current project, which we call the Artifacts, it's basically a short story, the sci fi
sort short story, and one of the if you like. Inspirations for that story was Billy Myers experiences with the I think they called Blake Bladians. And so basically, when I started writing the story, I did a lot of research, and you know, obviously being Mayo was one of one of my main sources. But as you broughly aware, there a lot of a lot of different stories and and and and you know the other type of material about
UFOs or on the internet. And I think the main one, if I need to name one, like, the main source was a book called True Blood, Blue Blood or was it blue Blood true Blood? And he sorry, I don't remember the author, but his story or his book is based on the idea that we're sort of our ancestors, games came from another planet called Lima or Constellation, and so basically they're they're like our distant cousins.
And and the Artifact is a story about a girl, an extraterristal girl who comes to Earth to train a human boy on what we call the ultimate mission, which is basically to say Earth from the climate change. And the story is said in the future, in about thirty years from now, so I would say the Earth is in a lot worse shape in the future. But
basically that's what the story is sort of based upon. Is it's the idea that that our answers came from another planet and they've been sort of monitoring and and sort of keeping keeping an eye on us for for quite a long time. And and they're not really I don't know if it's a fact or it's just fiction that only they're not they're not really allowed to interfere with with us or you know, the way we live, oh, the way we lead
our lives. But in this case, is the the planet is kind of all such, it's such fat say that they haven't to sort of start interfering directly with the course of events, if that makes any sense. Mm hmmm. And do you add from your research, I mean, do you feel that's the case? Is that do you believe, you know that something similar to the storyline you just described is what's happening. Well, yeah, I
would say so. I mean you're probably familiar with Prometheus, you know another and I don't to be honest, I don't really believe in in in the idea of having engineers as they call in that film. There may may there may have been some sort of interference at some point. But I do believe that since we have obviously different races, you know, people are quite different
in different parts of the planet. And I sort of believe believe in in the idea that maybe we are actually you know, the the let me replace that that the that the planet Earth was actually inhabited by different alien races. That's that's what I like to believe in. I don't know if it's a you know, I don't know if it's true, but it's a sort of a fascinating idea. Mm hmm. And uh. The information I said it also says that Spacer aims to inform an educate the world on the existence of
extraterrestrial life. And I guess how do you how are you going to go about that? Well, basically, the space of Project is sort of entail us a graphic novel music album like the concept sci fi concept album and the film script. So basically we have sort of three different avenues that would sort of like to pursue At this point. I don't know, I who,
I don't know who actually wrote that lie is the sounds quite impressive. I don't know if we can actually educate people in that sense, but obviously, through through this project, we may be sort of be able to enlighten people a little bit. I would call it enlightened enlightenment instead of education or educating anyone. I mean, do you feel, I mean, do you feel that we are being communicated with and enlightened by other worldly you know, civilizations
or people. Well this may sound a bit strange, but I actually know quite quite a few people who have who've had sort of experiences with you know, even Aidien races, either directly or you know, through astral travels and you know, things like that. So I've heard finding a few sort of fascinating stories about amiens and and and you know everything sort of around that.
So basically, when I was writing the story about the artifact, I spoke to a lot of people, and I sort of wanted to find out exactly what type of experiences they've had. And some people claim that they go, they have their sort of way to go, you know, leave Earth and and and meet these alien racings on you know, either on sort of astral planes or or actually physically getting on their spaceships. But to be honest, I've never had any any any experiences like that. But I don't know how
to sort of put it. I sort of I tend to believe these people. I don't think they're making these stories up because that obviously, you know, it's not exactly the way the best way to go about doing things. So I sort of tend to believe most of the things that I've heard, and that's what, you know, those stories I've tried to incorporate in the story, But as far as my sort of own personal experiences, they're quite
limited in that sense. It sounds like, though, these talking to your friends or talking to these people who believe they've had these experiences, with the messages they've shared with you have inspired you, especially with this project. I guess what were those messages? What were kind of the themes or ideas that did inspire you. Well, one of the sort of main topics, if you like this, is the fact that they very sort of concern and worried
about the state of this planet. And that's obviously sort of the main topic of the story. But what I don't personally, what I don't quite understand is that if they are, you know, in fact theselfs so worried about us and this planet, is that, why don't they sort of you know, do something upon it, you know, but that means that seems to be like their main concern. I don't think they're that worried about us, as you know, as you know, the human race. I think they're
actually more worried about what we're doing in this planet. Another thing, sorry, another story or sort of cone that I thret is that apparently there are sort of mmhm, some sort of like a conflicting factions you know, around the planet as well. So I don't know if you ever heard these stories, but if apparently there are you know, sort of like a dog of forces and and sort of you know, the good guys and the bad guys, and there seems to be some sort of overgoing conflict between you know,
those two forces. So those, you know, those two things seem to be the sort of the main main topics that I've heard of. But like I said, I've never seen any bad or good guys, so I can't really comment on that. Uh. On this project, you have some other musicians and some famous musicians kind of joining you. Uh. Some of the names I've seen are like British musicians like Peter Cox and Nicka Kershaw and also Sha Ka Khan mm hmm. Have they are are they interested in this topic
or the idea? Well, all I can say is that, I mean, Peter Cox is definitely a scie fi that wanted to see that the film's cript as well. That I wouldn't know about the other guys if they're actually, you know, big fans of sci fi. But obviously they're well, you know, they're familiar with the story and and and and they find it quite you know, interesting, and obviously it's a bit different from the mainstream
you know music anyways. But yeah, so I wouldn't really know how how much of the you know, how much there are sort of into these type of things when it comes to musicians in general. I mean, it seems like musicians have similar messages to the extra threast rolls you're referring to, or you know, are these people who maybe or believe they're getting these messages from
from elsewhere? In your experience, do you find that musicians are more interested in the topics of of you know, these ideas of entering astral planes and speaking with extraterrestrials and that sort of thing. Uh, that's a difficult question. I don't know how sort of m hm, how common it is actually as it is about you know, just about friends and people that I work with, they're they're you know, they're definitely interested in that, you know,
aspect of things. But I've never absolutely met anyone who sort of claims that they're you know, actually done any sort of like asteral traveling or or met met any extra terrisos. So, but there's definitely a fascination for that type of thing. And when you ask about the earlier you asked about sort of influences. I mean, obviously David Bowie is probably the was well known person who's really but then again I don't know the act it believes in those
things. But obviously he you know, wrote the song Starman and Starving the Man with a Man who Fell to Earth. I don't think he's actually every sort of common and on his sort of own experiences. So I think there's still a little bit of sort of stigma around that. I don't think we want to come up and say, yeah, I I've seen UFOs or I
believe in UFOs. I think there's still a bit a bit timid to to to come up and actually saying, have are there any musicians that that you'd be willing to share with us that we may know that you've had conversations about this topic with Yeah, I'm not, I'm not you know, sorry about it. I mean obviously this the whole project is, you know, sort of build around that idea. So I'm not, Yeah, I don't. I'm not sort of hiding hiding that fact, you know. But but yeah,
you have to be a bit sort of careful, you know. You cannot you know, just burst out and say it. I think you sort of have to, you know, sort of feel feeling out first, you know, just to see if they're actually interesting in that type of thing. And I think that goes to to you know, everyone, I mean, you cannot just you know, you probably know what I mean. You have to sort of you have to sort of talk to people first and then to see if they're actually sort of open to that that type of you know,
conversation. Mm hmm. Yeah, which is interesting, I guess for musicians. I think a lot of us have the idea that musicians can kind of talk about any wild thing that they want. And there are some musicians like Sammy Hagar or Demi Lovado I think even recently and Nick Jonas. They kind of talk about Katie Perry talk a lot about their interests in UFOs and ET's and stuff like that. But it sounds like that you were saying that kind of like the rest of experience, there still is kind of a stigma.
And would it be accurate then to say that even as a musician or you kind of worry about your credibility or maybe impacts on your career, if you were, you know, outwardly kind of just out about your et possibly et experiences or interests. Yeah, I mean I would say so. So I wasn't. I wasn't actually aware of Katy Perry or or Johnson. Yeah, do you remember what they sing? Oh? Yeah. Nick Jonas just had his story recently about his UFO sightings. Katie Perry has commented quite often about
UFOs UH and her interests in them. There's a number of other artists. Sammy Hagar has talked about his communication with aliens, and he's never shied away from talking about that. He's talked about it quite a bit. In fact, Jimmy Kimmel kind of had a had him on I think last year, and they did a little mock like play about his experiences so yeah, well that's great. I wasn't aware of that. But obviously, so you were saying that they're mocking semi hisavior. Yeah, they had been. So he
does get some ridicule because of his experiences. The great thing is that he still doesn't shy away from talking about them. But you're right, he does get ridiculed a bit, and even Jimmy Kimmel, he's a good sport about it, but he participated in this git that Kimmel did. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, obviously major stars, like you know, I think it's great that he's actually come around and said those things. But well, like you said, you know, there's always you know, the
other aspect of it that people stop, you know, mocking you. You know. Mm hmmm. So your project is more of a space opera, kind of a fiction, uh, musical project, and graphic novel, but fiction graphic novel more about kind of a science fiction sort of project. Yeah, I mean, you know, like I mentioned earlier, I mean I don't really have any sort of personal experiences in that sense, but there's another
aspect to the story, which is actually true. I have another project in which I write music, which well, let's put this way, I can actually write music in a sort of trans state of mind, so I can I can sort of go under this sort of transtate. And some of that music I've actually released in the past, and apparently I don't know why or how, but it actually seems to work to have some sort of like healing
colors. I know it sounds a bit strong, but I've actually saw quite a few of those albums and I've had people commenting, you know, so sending me feedback, and it's it's quite amazing. But for some reason, some of those songs, some of that music actually works. And on this album, on the Artifact album, I'm actually gonna have a few of those songs included. So it's kind of like a meditative state. And where do
you think that where do you feel that information is coming from? Well, I mean, we're actually so quite a few theories about that, and one of the I actually believe in sort of two of those theories that either could be like some sort of a higher higher power entity which would sort of filter you with that type of music, or the the other theory that I sort of wonder about is whether it's actually some sort of extra terrorist or things that
can can sort of create music through us or in this case through me. Mm hm. So I'm not exactly sure you know which one it is, but you know, when when I actually do it, it's sort of it's kind of strange because I'm not I'm so half asleep in a way, and then there's somebody sort of moving my fingers with the story. It sounds really coopered, but that's exactly what happens. It's just somebody moving my fingers and
and sort of creating that music and it's not me. And the reason why I know it's not me because I wouldn't actually write that type of music. I don't know if I be sort of capable of writing that type of music. Disaster. Yeah, that's interesting, really interesting. All right, Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. Oh yes, thank you, thank you for having me. All right, thank you so much to Tapio for joining us. That was really nice of
him to come share the information. And I don't think it was his a alt he was misrepresenting himself. I think marketing does what marketing does, and sometimes marketing takes liberties when they try to get people interviews and this such but he was still interested in the topic and I think that's interesting. But also, thank you so much to Martin for coming on the show and talking to me about the Travis Wanton event and the UFO news. And he's a great
asset and I'm so happy to be working with him. Of course, he does the UFO podcast or podcast UFO that you can also find on iTunes and elsewhere, or at their website and Facebook and everywhere else. So thank you to a Martin. I wanted to tell you a couple of other things. First of all, the UFO Congress is we're getting a lot of people interested, which is great, so get your tickets soon and we have I'll clue you guys in. I think I might have mentioned this somewhere before on the
show. I can't remember, but it is looking like I think it's going to be all confirm that, you know. Martin talked about the RUA encounter, one of these encounters where an entity was seen, and this was in South Africa RUA at the Aerial school it was called, and a lot of South African elementary school students saw a craft land and this creature come out and
they had some amazing messages it was investigated by John Mack. If you go online and look up John mac Aerial School, John Mack South Africa, anything like that, you're gonna some videos of his interviews with these children. And we're going to have one of these children who is now a young adult. She's I believe in her twenties, like a mid of her twenties, and she is going to share some incredible stuff. So she's going to share her
experience. Actually, we talked to her Emily Trim when I had Luigi vind Tlli on the show. Emily was on the show for a little bit as well, and she spoke a little about her artwork and stuff. And so she's going to come to the Congress. And this is the first time as far as I know, that one of these witnesses has come and spoken to
a UFO conference. Now, she did do a little talk kind of like this in a conference in Canada. It's a smaller conference, but this will she'll be at the UFO Congress, so at least it's the first time in
the US. So this is going to be a lot of fun. I'm so excited because she's got the amazing artwork, this great artwork that she feels is kind of inspired by her encounters, and some of these messages kind of come through, kind of like what Tapia was talking about, you know, these sort of messages on how we need to take care of our planet better or else we're done for. And I think you don't need aliens to tell you that, but it's interesting that they should be receiving these messages. I
think, I guess just reiterated from possibly elsewhere. I mean, the Reui encounter is an amazing case, so I am so happy for that. Otherwise, that I think is going to be an amazing announcement once we announce it, you guys have a little bit of a early you know, in for a heads up on her being there. But we have another announcement that's going to be coming this week that for me, is a really really big deal and it it's essentially one of the most esteemed and important researchers in this field
who never speaks at this sort of stuff. It's been decades, and he will be speaking at the UFO Congress this year. It's going to be a really big deal. It's one that many eufologist researchers. It's someone they've all wanted to meet for a long time myself as well, and you just can't because he just doesn't do these conferences and it's hard to get access because he's
just a very important busy fellas. So we'll be talking to him soon, so that's gonna be or we'll have him at the conference and that announcement will come soon. So if you're not on our email list, you should get on our email list. Go to our homepage. In the upper right hand corner you'll see where you can enter your email address to join the list.
You can also just email us at contact at Openminds dot tv. And our you know, biweekly newsletters do have information about everything we do so including the UFO Congress and latest Open Minded news, the UFO Report, and the radio show here, so be sure to join our email list to keep up on that. We'll be announcing this speaker via email soon but also all of our social media outlets and I'll tell you about it hopefully next week because I think
we'll have that confirmed. This is really exciting, It is some really cool stuff, So come join us at the UFO Congress. Remember that's February seventeenth to the twenty first lots of exciting stuff going on there. Otherwise, thank you to Caleb Hanks who does the opening and close music. Of course, again thank you to Martin Willis. Thank you so much for to tap YOUO for joining us, and be sure to check out his music. I hope you like it and it is at least inspired by you know, positive messages.
And even though it doesn't seem to be be as I was told about educating humanity on Extra treast Rolls, according to him, it does seem to be about you know, positive messages being sent for us, and that's always a good thing. And he sounded like a really positive, great guy. So thank you so much, Tapio for joining us. Otherwise, audio's mood judges your emotionless sound. The glass trees of Hurrying