Stephen Bassett, ET Petition

Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Rojas. Open Minds Radio is a UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. It's like those guys go UFO. This is Open Minds Radio, your UFO news authority, and you I am Alejandro Rojas. And today we have another wonderful show. It's going to be great and a

fun time for everyone shall be had. We have Steve Bassett on from PRG, the Paradigm Research Group, and many of you are aware of this gentleman, and we talked about him last week because there is the White House petition that he had opened up on the We Are the People website where the White House has put up this site so you can go put up your own petitions there and if you get enough people to sign your petition, then the White

House is supposed to respond you. The limit used to be five thousand, where you had to get five thousand signatures. And luckily for the petition people, it doesn't have to be someone in the country, which is interesting because it's our country and otherwise the French, for example, we could have some sort of revolution the Asians, because there's a lot of those guys out there.

They could say they put up a petition saying, close down your government and give all of your power to China, and then have all the Chinese people sign it, and you've got like five billion people signing this petition, and the White House is going to be like, oh, no, we have to close down and give our power to China. So I don't know

if that's a good idea. They should probably just take us signatures, but they take them from all over the world, which also has helped Steve Bassett because, as people may know, the exopolitics movement is all over the world and Steve Bassett is going all over the world doing talks about exopolitics, and he's going to be talking with us later today about his petition, which asked the White House to acknowledge that we're talking with extraterrestrials and that they're here and

we're down with et Ett and so that's what his petition's about. So we're talking to him about that. I've written about it on Huffington Post, on on our website and stuff like that. We talked about it last week and some of the controversy because can the president even know if the White House wanted to know, you know, and they went over, hello, you know, military intelligence people we wanted to know about UFOs, they'll probably get the

door slaming in their face. And possibly Clinton and President Carter had this happen to them, the doors slam in their face. You don't have a need to know, and they were told to get the hell out of here, So that could happen to Obama in the White House even if they decide to genuinely go pursue this subject that Stephen Bassett has put for us. But Bassett and I will talk about Robert Salas, who put one forth that just talks

about UFOs, doesn't go the whole extraterrestrial route. So that's what we're going to be talking about on the radio show in our interview a little later. However, most of you probably want to hear the UFO News because you like I love our UFO News correspondent, Jason McClellan, who's here every week to talk news with us and people. You're lucky because he's here again today. So Hello, Jason, give us some news, baby for reading Zalejandro,

and hello everybody. I am happy to give you more UFO news. This is your open Mind's news brief for Monday, October seventeenth, twenty eleven. Well, a man photographed a UFO somewhere beyond the scene. It was actually over the sea. But at least when I sing, I don't sing during the show. I should, though, maybe we should make the show a musical. You used to sing a lot during the show, it happened lately, and he used to do a lot of phone dialing music as well.

We're gonna have to use the phone dialing. Oh, that's right, phone dialing music. But back to the story. A man photographed to UFO over the sea while on vacation near Saint Austell, Cornwall, in England, on October first, twenty eleven. The man was taking a leisurely stroll when he

decided to snap a photo of the picturesque seascape. The photographer didn't notice anything unusual at the time, but when he returned home and uploaded his vacation photos from his camera to his computer, he noticed the UFO over the sea. The object in the photo was blurry, and this makes sense because the object not seen by the photographer when he was taking a picture would most likely have been moving very quickly for him not to notice it, but at initial glance,

the UFO appears to be disc or saucer shaped. According to The Daily Mail, this UFO photograph was unveiled at the Cornwall UFO Research Group conference. In describing the photograph, the group's founder, Dave Gillham pointed out that there appeared to be two trails of water beneath the object, which look as though they are falling from it to the sea. He offered the possible explanation it

could be that the object had just emerged from the sea. The Daily Mail reports that a spokesman from the nearby Royal Navy Air Base conferend that no military aircraft were in the area at the time, but The Metro points out there could be a much simpler explanation. A seagull and when you look at the photo again you can totally make out the seagull. And apparently some have tested that this UFO is a seagull in flight and those two trails beneath the bird

are nothing more than doodoo and they're white. They are white, and anybody familiar with signal seagulls or other birds is familiar with the white Otherwise it could be like an spaceship dropping like Space Invaders, you know, those little wine bomb things that they dropped on you. Because it's they're little white lines. You can see the similarity shoe. If you look at the picture, you could you could see that there's white lines Space Invaders. But it's a seagull.

It's a seagull. When you first look at the picture, you say, wow, there's a flying saucer. It sort of looks like a saucer. But but again, trained eye, when you look at it, you can see the shape of the chest and yeah, yeah, definitely, And then you look at other seagull pictures, it's definitely a seagull. And it happens a lot with birds. And unfortunately, you know, of course when you're taking pictures, you don't notice things flying around, birds and bugs and

stuff like that. So often people will oh, they get their pictures back and the website and then you know, typically they're often not always there, but often they're birds. Correct. Yeah, those dive bombing seagulls are up to no good. Yeah, So the media had a lot of fun with the whole seagull pooh UFO thing. There were a lot of headlines with Pooh in it. Yeah, that's always fun. That's disgusting. It's fun though,

I guess. Well. It was just two weeks ago that we reported that a major change was made to the Roswell International UFO Museum and Research Center's website. Now it appears that the museum has scrapped their plants for their biggest

change of all, which would have been a new building. Groundbreaking took place two years ago on what would have been a new twenty five million dollar home for the museum near the heart of downtown Roswell, but according to KOB Eyewitness News for on Tuesday, October eleventh, officials from the museum announced that the project has been scrapped and the two million dollars lot where the building is going

to be constructed will now be sold. The museum will reportedly stay at its current location after securing quote not only a long term lease, but an option to buy the property. That's according to museum representative Jack Swickard. Plans are being developed to renovate the museum's existing building, and negotiations are reportedly underway to

perhaps purchase neighboring buildings and somehow incorporate them into the overall museum. According to KOB Eyewitness News for an economic study shows that the museum brings in an estimated fifty seven million dollars into the state's economy and attracts around one hundred and fifty thousand visitors each year. Absolutely, I mean Roswell, the Roswell incident is

Roswelt's economy. I'm kind of glad in a way because of course it would have been exciting for them to build this fancy new facility, and it was pretty fancy. But I've been watching this and it's been years and the money

just isn't there. So I'm really excited about this because where they are is kind of fun, and I mean it needs I think internally it can have some, you know, stand some renovation, but you know it's in this old theater and plus the front, the marquee and everything is so famous by now and it's a trademark. It's great to have them where they are. And now, what was neat about this year in Roswell is they had acquired

only just before the conference, which was really helpful. At least one or two of the storefronts that were nearby in this same building therein so they were able to have more speakers and some talks in these other rooms. So like the Kimbler stuff, the Roswell stuff we talked about where we had the pictures of Don Schmidt, Stan Friedman and Kevin Randall and Tom Carey all together,

those were in this other room. So it was a great room. And she talked about how she might have the opportunity to buy more of those, and if she could buy this whole building, which is this whole block in Roswell, that would be awesome because then they can, you know, focus that money will go a lot further into renovation as opposed to building a real

fancy, huge place. Well, don't speak too soon, because the article I believe mentioned that part of their plan is if they can acquire all of these other spaces next to them, then they can move forward with building their gigantic, super nice museum like they had planned the original design. Why don't they do that in the place they would tear it down and build stuff, which I think would be a shame. But yeah, their their current location

looks awesome. I've never been there, but you certainly have. Yeah, and if they can expand in there because it's always fun to have, you know, kind of a front that is I mean, because it's maybe they get bored with it. It looks like old town, you know, a small town old town and the marquee of the big UFO. So it's neat looking, and that's a big drop for people, like I said, are urban urbs nights and stuff, because it looks neat and then when you go

inside and you can have this really cool experience. And there's a lot of museums like that. Heard museum from the outside, for example, doesn't look that great, which is a famous Native American museum here, but when you go inside, it's really laid out, very nice and looks looks great. I think the exterior appearance of the Roswell Museum is perfectly fitting. Yeah, I mean you're talking about Roswell. I think your mike went out, My

mic went out. There you are, you know the Roswell incident. Talking nineteen forty seven, That to me doesn't say fancy right exactly, because then it looks more like nineteen forty seven. I feel like you're more in the times of what happened, which is the whole point, because you walk in there and you've got all of this stuff from that age, right, and it feels like you're there and you get the sense of what it was like

to be there in nineteen forty seven. It makes sense, and hopefully this is all working out for the best and they take advantage of it now that they can get along leaves and perhaps by the building. Yep, that's excellent, Alejandro. I'm going to talk to you about something that I've been wanting to talk to you about, and we've mentioned this in the past two weeks on the show, but Live Science published an infographic a couple weeks ago on

their website showing the top ten states for UFO sidings. The National UFO Reporting Center's data was used to create the infographic, and the data represents sightings from nineteen ninety four through twenty eleven. Well, you Walejandro, compared that data with the UFO sidings reports from moufon and you published your results complete with charts on our website, oprom MYZATV and Huffington Posts and you put this together in

a really visual presentation. But you've got three different charts here showing hotspots, and you broke it down explaining it, and I'd like to explain it because we've got first we have that the UFO Hotspots per report, and we have the top three being California, Texas, and Florida. Then you have the UFO Hotspots per population and the top three there North Dakota, Arizona, and Colorado. And then lastly we have UFO Hotspots per Alejandro and the top three

there would be Arizona, Colorado, and Oregon. We have three different top threes here, So talk me through this a bit. All right, I'm glad you asked, because I know you're someone who reads articles, but not everybody does. Some people just look at the pictures, and if you're one of the picture lookers, you know all you got was what Jason just described. So you probably were so confused that you looked at the pictures you sat

there and and moved on. Which is great because picture lookers, unfortunately probably aren't that into details anyways, because they never get them just by looking at the pictures and not reading the text. But there's a lot of them out there. So for the picture lookers, or for those of you who like to listen to the radio show and don't get the website, but you better go to the website. I'll explain this. Yeah, what I did is what I decided to do since they did their infographic, was kind of do

my own but with MoveOn data. So the first graph I wanted to find out, well, is it similar to what they got on the Life Science with the new Fork material? And it was very similar in fact, I put those two together and the only difference differences where for instance, Illinois is a little bit lower on the Mofon list and up on the New Fork, but it's still very close. It's number eleven, it's not in the top ten, but it's very close to the top ten for MoveOn. There are

little changes like that he is in Oregon, right, Steve Davenport. Washington, Oh, I think you're white Washington. So Washington, for instance, is about fourteenth on MoveOn, but it's second on his life and I think that's probably because more people in Washington know about him. He gets a lot of press out there because he lives in a silo, so you know, he gets a lot of pressure about living in a silo and running a UFO

thing, So people report to him probably more than move On. Whereas Colorado, which is where Moufon is and they get more press there, more people report to Moufon, So just some of those differences. Otherwise it was very similar. Then I pinpointed at more to twenty eleven to see what was happening there. Really it's about the same. When you look at reports overall,

how many what states are getting UFOs and it stays the same. However, when you look at this you see a lot of the states with the highest populations in the top of the list. So because they have more people see they have more sightings. So what I wanted to do was break it down to, well, how many places are getting more sightings per person because that might really indicate where the hot spots are. And that was the second craft

so per person. So for instance, North Dakota, they only have six hundred and seventy thousand or so people, and so they were getting three point four sidings per hundred thousand person, which is the highest. However, you know, we learn in stats class that if you don't have a sample size

of thirty or more than it, you should probably throw it out. And because they only have twenty three reports as opposed to a California with like three hundred plus reports that data is probably not as accurate as to whether or not they may be a hotspot or not, because of course one siding can throw that off right so huge. And you know, it's very very cool seeing you do this with the population taking that into consideration, because you did bring

up states that weren't recognized before, like North Dakota and Alaska. It wasn't Alaska number four on that one. Yeah, and that's crazy, but yeah, go go ahead with your next one. And Alaska only had seventeen. Wyoming had thirteen. They came to the top because they don't have much of a population. So if they take, for instance, if Wyoming would have

had two less, they would have dropped a lot further. So I took all those that had thirty or less out to figure out, Okay, what are most likely the hotspots, and what rose to the top was Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, Indiana, Missouri, Kentucky, Nevada, Kansas, Michigan,

and Connecticut, which is pretty interesting. I think a couple of the interesting things are I think you can really pinpoint these states more likely as a hotspot because this is per population and these are places that have a fair amountal reports. And I found this before when I looked at this data a couple years ago, that it was very similar to this, so very interesting. Of course, I've been in Arizona and Colorado. We talked about that,

I think last week, so that was kind of funny. But it was also kind of funny because I received a message from my buddy Chuck Zukowski, who's been on the show before, and his sister is the state director for Moufon in Missouri, and he was looking at information she had and he had, and he saw that there's a lot of sidings between Colorado in Missouri, and he saw that also some cattle mutilation reports that he's investigated in Colorado.

We're all along the thirty seven degree line latitude line, so and my map kind of correlated with what he saw. So that was kind of interesting too. But I think here you can really have the hotspots for what it's worth. Interesting enough, though Colorado or I mean California and New York. Some of the places, of course with the highest populations that work towards the top really drop down when you go per population. The hard part is of California

so big. I think New York, we really don't have as many sightings per person, so it's not maybe a hot spot California. If we could regionalize California by South California, North California, maybe made California, we may find some part of California is a hot spot, but unfortunately we can't do that, so California and even Texas drop off. But yeah, it's really

interesting that right in the heart of the country we have something. Now, the other problem is there are so few reports that for every UFO siding that someone actually goes and finds move On or Newfork, which isn't you know, if you go to the website and put in UFO siding, you may be able to find something. But someone has to be pretty they have to have a reason to do that. And a lot of people see something and they tell their buddies. Maybe they even go to the media first before they try

to go look for a reporting center. So most sightings probably don't go reported to move On or Newpork or even the media. So that kind of throws a kitchen all of the data too. So are these really more UFOs in Arizona and Colorado and Kansas and Missouri and Kentucky and Indiana than there are in the rest of the country. It's hard to say, but at least there seems to be a trend of more reports per person in those areas. Well.

Enjoyed looking at your charts and I did read your article pretty colors about it. But thank you so much for putting that together. I know that was a lot of work. You spent a whole fun time. It's important, I mean, move on. There's a lot of people out there and they're getting data and getting information, and you know, they've got the great

database. Same with new Fork. It's a lot of hard work to get this information and this data, and this is what it was for to try to put it together, figure out the trend, to see what's going on with these reports. Well, good job, thanks you know the news. Residents in Shanghai, China, will bewildered by a multi multi colored UFO in the night sky on Monday, October tenth, which was last week. According to a television station, witness stated, I feel curious about the object.

I don't know what it is. It can't move like a plane and can change colors into green and red alternatively. But the UFOs were later identified as large kites equipped with hundreds of colored LED lights. Did you watch the video of it? Yeah, you're kind of crazy. I'm glad that this was a news report that showed it at the end, because when you watch in the sky, it's just kind of amazing to see because all you see are these LED is changing color and kind of pulsing downward. It looks really cool.

It looks super cool. But on the ground you see it's just triangle kite and have this round set of lights in the middle. Looks crazy. From the sky. Yeah, it's really fun. And if you knew how to do Like Chuck, he knows how to He's got a computer program where he can put lights together and do weird stuff like that. A lot of

people are doing that. That's becoming pretty normal now. Love using their you know, remote controlled airplanes, kites, things like that, but really adorning them with these LED lights that you can program and flying them at night is really becoming popular. It's fun. Of course, it throws another wrench in our system here when we're trying to look for UFO reports, but that's just

what you do with when technology improves. I guess. Yeah. Well, in other news, a photographer in Milan, Italy, recently captured multiple mysterious UFOs on camera, according to Mexican journalist and TV personality Jim Mossan. On Monday September nineteenth, Antonio Uzi was taking some test shots with the camera and a telephoto lens when he noticed a strange object in the sky. According to Erzi, the object appeared to be a flying sphere, but with his telephoto

lens he was able to see much more detail. The series of eleven photographs shows the saucer shaped craft with a sphere shaped objects centered on the bottom of the craft and three smaller sphere shaped objects around the larger sphere. This object strongly resembles a well known UFO photograph by Georgia Damski that was taken in nineteen fifty two. The sequence of photos also shows smaller, independent sphere shaped objects

accompanying the larger object. Some of the photos show only one of these spheres moving around the larger craft, while other photos show at least two small spheres in the sky at the same time as the larger craft. Erzi claims that after snapping the eleven photos, his camera stopped working, and then the UFO and the spheres disappeared and the photos were analyzed briefly by somebody who works with Orzy, and he said he couldn't find any sign that the photos had been

tampered with or brought into photoshop or anything. Orzi. If you're familiar with them, he's taken hundreds thousands, according to some people, of photos and videos of UFOs in Italy but also around the globe, and he claims to be followed by UFOs. Photos and videos are highly controversial as well as Theodanski photos are if you're familiar with those. Yeah, it's a tough case. I mean, we've covered it in our magazine because he's got these phenomenal pictures,

amazing pictures, these amazing pictures of UFOs flying over his house. Are they really I've got a video up where I was with him and I took this video of a UFO, but I think it was a balloon over in Mexico. So yeah, it's just so difficult to say with these, And it's of course, this one is so strange because it looks so much like the classic Kadamski UFOs and I don't know, I can't recall seeing that anytime, not recently, Yeah, it's been There were other people other than a

dam Ski. We took those pictures though, but that was during the time, typically during the time that he was see and that Sadanski like UFO looks similar to the other crafts that he's photographed in this detail just seems to have additional orbs at the bottom of the craft. Yeah, so kind of interesting. Well, speaking of actual orbs, two or of UFOs recently recorded on video on the sky over Missouri. The Epic Times provided this description of the

video. The brightly glowing objects are traveling low in the evening sky. They fly around each other, appearing to almost collide before descending into the distance and disappearing behind some trees. A husband and wife witnessed the glowing UFOs together, and the wife recorded the incident on our iPhone. The husband then submitted the report of their sighting to move on the Mutual UFO network, which included the video. The video has since been uploaded to YouTube, along with the following

description from the husband that submitted it with his moof on sighting. He said, my wife witnessed two gwelling orbs in the sky while she was driving down our street. She had an incredible video that she shot from her iPhone through the windshield. The lights spun around each other then descended to the ground. They went behind some trees and out of view. She's very reluctant to share

this experience, so I'm writing this for her. Some have suggested that the mysterious lights in the video could be remote controlled airplanes, while others has suggested the video is nothing more than a hoax. However, no official identification has been made. Yeah, really interesting video, maybe CGI, you know what.

It reminded me of them, and I think it's a video that doesn't get enough attention personally, even though it was the one that we have from Las Vegas that we have on our YouTube, the one with roller coaster.

Yeah, roller coaster. And this is when I got from Greeley, when I did a talk in Greeley, Colorado, a couple of years ago, and some guys brought this video to me, and they were in Las Vegas and there's a weird white light flying over the strip where they were over by New York, New York, and then it kind of zooms down and does this weird stuff. And in this video you have these two lights zooming all

over the place. If it's real, it's I mean, it's incredible, but it should be looked that closer because we saw some things that might indicate it to be CG. But someone needs to take a look at that because it's it's a very interesting video. Yeah, it's a great video. It I definitely watched it quite a few times today, and you're right, there are a couple indications in there that that could be problematic. But you know, it's difficult to tell. These are balls of light in the sky.

And we've seen so many ore videos this year, and one good thing this one has where there's been problems in the past with CGI is when it flies behind trees, you can see it through the leaves once in a while, right, whereas there are some other videos where that didn't happen, which was a big vacation that it was not being light in the sky. Will say, this is one definitely not Chinese lanterns, Yeah, not Chinese lanterns. And this is not flight planes, no, And this is not like the

Red Bull Air Force the skydivers with players on their feet. You had another idea of possibly RC planes with LEDs. It could possibly be that's possible because they can fly pretty crazy, but even that's kind of would be maybe a little bit of a stretch because they're moving so fast and up in the air and down again and again. Some of these issues with the lights and where they're moving in front of or behind of it kind of rules out RC to me. But yeah, it's difficult to tell. I mean, we have

no idea what it is. It's a fun video to watch, so definitely check it out. Yeah, CG or possibly a real phenomena, pretty exciting. Well, all that is it for the news for today. Remember to check out all of these stories and many many more at openminds dot tv, your source for up a related news. I'm Jason McClellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and you have been briefed back to you, signor Alejandro.

All right, thank you, Jason. A couple other articles that I want to tell you about on our website just recently, in fact, just yesterday or no, this was Friday. There's one on the Mexican government and the twenty twelve main calendar, and Antonio Juneez has done some more research into these claims that the Mexican government has given this documentary maker who's the son of Raoul Julia. This data that's never seen before that claims that the Mayans were talking

to extraterrestrials and stuff. So Antonio dug in to find a lot more information and it's a two parter and the first part was posted on Friday. So

that's a very interesting story. And then, like I said, I'll be writing some more on the reporting in that thirty seventh latitude line and if there's significance there, So keep an eye on our website and hopefully I'll get on the show Chuckszukowski and his sister Debbie Ziegelmeyer soon because she's in Missouri to talk about the UFO videos that we and the other sightings that have been going on these areas, because there's been some good ones that have gotten some news.

However, without further ado, let us go ahead and speak to our featured guest today, mister Steve Bassett. All Right, I am very excited to have for the first time, actually I think, on the show, Stephen Bassett from the Paradigm Research Project. Hello, Hi, Alejandro, it's great to be with you. Yeah, great to have you on, especially at this time. I'm sure you're really excited about the petition, meaning the disclosure

petition. Right. Yeah, it's an interesting project that PRG launched on September twenty second, and it's really the first time I think that we really had something quite like this. Let me give your listeners the background right now. There are petitions all over the place. There are petition websites where you go and you can sign petitions and put up positions and what have you. There are petitions in play by organizations such as move on dot org regarding various events

like Occupy Wall Street. Some of them have as many as one hundred and eighty two hundred thousand signatures. That's possible because the organization is behind them, like move On, spent has spent millions of dollars developing mail lists, email lists that are many millions in size. And to what extent these petitions impact It's hard to say. They certainly bring people together, they're a focus,

but to what extent the impact government, We're not sure. What's different about what's going on here is that the White House itself initiated a petition process on the White House website white House dot gov, which receives many, many millions of visitors. A three month. I need to check to see how many, but it's a big number. And this was done as part of their open transparent government campaign Promises and change you can believe in, Promises whatever.

Trying to be more democratic. All well and good, So they initiated a petition process in a section called We the People. The links to it are running the very top page of the White House website. Now one and two hundred I'm rather, I'm sorry, one hundred and ninety two petitions have been

submitted since September the twenty second. What's different about this particular process is that the White House has stated on the site that any petitions which received a certain number of signatures within thirty days of their being posted will be actually formally reviewed by White House staff assigned to this and a formal response will be returned by the White House or by the appropriateities within the EMBOMA administration. More importantly,

all of these petitions are in fact sitting on the website. They're right there for anyone to review anywhere in the world, and so consequently they're getting a lot of exposure that other petitions out there in the internet in their lands might not get. And then finally they did something interesting with this, Alejandro. They are not limiting signatures to just the people in the United States or United

States citizens anywhere in the world can sign these petitions. Okay. So when p ORG learned about this in at the end of August, to realize you had an e opportunity here to get attention, to draw attention to and focus on the et disclosure movement. So PRG three promoted a petition as the White House requested that people do, and so within an hour of it going the site going active. On September the twenty second, a disclosure petition was up

on the website where it remains. Now what is the disclosure petition? It reads exactly as follows. We the undersigned strongly urged the President of the United States to formally acknowledge an extraterrestrial presidence engaging with the human race an immediately release into the public domain all files within government agencies and military services relevant to this phenomenon. This is an unambiguous, straightforward statement. These not a lot of

run If you do not think there's an extraterrestrial presidence. If you do not think that fulful phenomena and other phenomena are in fact have an ep origin, and there's no reason to sign this petition, but if you do, there's a good reason to sign it. And that was designed that way. There's one of a petition up there now which is similar but somewhat soft. Lay right. These petitions have achieved. Both petitions will achieve formal response from the

White House. Now, one question is, of course, your wording is much stronger. You go all the way to saying an extraterrestrial presence as opposed to asking for them, just to which previous initiatives have been just looking into the UFO phenomena, You go all the way to acknowledging an extra treastural president. President, Why did you take that extra step? What? Because it's true. The extraterrestrial presence is a fact. It's been established through sixty years

of research by a whole lot of people, their witnesses coming forward. There's mounds of evidence. What's the fact. And every time you step back from that past, sorry, every time you step back from that fact, you're diminishing the activism, if you're diminishing the addicacy. It's a compromise. Now, there are people that want to split hairs on this and say that well, maybe they're not from another planet, maybe they're from another dimension, or

maybe they're from the future or the past. Hey, look, and I think extraterrestrial will sufficiently cover all three of those possibilities. And certainly it doesn't really matter. All three would be absolutely extraordinary and requiring full engagement by all segments of our society. So I don't really split that hair. The extrust or presence is a fact. Millions of people know this already, and every year millions more come to that understanding, and so it's a very important to

state the fact directly and not back away from it. And that's why the petition is reported that way. Okay, And just on some of the evidence that you talked about that there is a lot of evidence has been gathered by researchers for a period of time. What do you think is the best evident some of the best evidence When you think of this, like if let's say, you know, a politician was to say, well, Steve, you know, what is this evidence that there are extraterrestrials, what would you tell

them? Well, many years ago, thirty years ago and back in the eighties, J L. And Heinez, the great researcher and astronomer who left the government program he was hired to participate in in order to quote debunk the UFO issue to the American people, left it reverse his position, founded KUFOS Center for UFO Studies. Well, he was frequently asked this question. He had a similar saying response, where do you want me to back up the

truck? It's not so much best evidence. Any single piece of evidence can be wrong. In other words, you can commit a heinous crime, such as say a murder, and a senator could come forward at your trial and state, matter of fact, why he or she saw you do it, and that would be pretty impressive. And yet that senator could be bold faithlined. So there is you know. Any photographs can be fake, video can

be fake. It is the totality of the evidence, sixty years of accumulations of videos and photographs and citing reports by the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people submitting written accounts, the researchers of their contact experiences from around the world, witnesses of high rank and station coming forward and talking about events

and that they have been involved a while working for the governments. This is a huge amount of evidence which in its totality is absolutely beyond and reasonable about this is the way people need to think about this. They constantly look for the smoking gun, and that's not the way science or the world works.

When you go into a trial, you're convicted on the totality of the evidence, and the totality of the evidence for an extraterrestrial presence, probably from other planets, is overwhelming, and that's the way you have to look at it. Now, just kind of along this name because I agree with you. Yeah, you're right, you know, cour it's all about the totality.

In fact, I was just watching the show last night. I think it was about the Arsnick, the guy who was sending the arsenic around, and how they tried to try someone and that they emphasize you have to look at the totality of the evidence as oppost to all of these tiny pieces, which is something that isn't done in this field, like you're talking about. However, some time, you know, especially in science, semantics of course gets

really important. And then when it relates to politics, and so I can understand your definition of extraterrestrial covering some of these other possibilities, but sometimes that and I'm sure you ran into this. Uh, using that term can kind of scare some people away, such as in the realm of science, because it feels like coming to a conclusion before they've done the research. We would you say to someone who felt that way, are you when you say using

the term are you referring using this from actual politics or extraterrestrial Well? You know, the point is the research has been done. Now, is it all the research that have been done? Now? Uh? The government? Is the government revealed what its research is and covered? No? Has the governm deliberately try to undermine the efforts of citizens in this Yes? Are we under a truth embargo designed to contain and to minimize the effects of citizens on

this issue? Yes? Does that make it tougher? Sure? Absolutely. I mean it's like a trial where you're you know, you know, hey, you have been indicted on the crime, and you go to trial and lo and behold the government, the prosecution is deliberately manipulating the evidence, undermining your own defense in order to convict you. That's of course you legal people

will go to jail for that. That's called prosecutory and misconduct. So what we have here is a sixty year effort citizen science effort to understand and establish the basis for what was called the UFO phenomena, I call it extraterrestrial phenomena, and the entire time the government was deliberately attempting to interfere and undermine that

effort, well, of course, not revealing what it knows. This is an extraordinary situation, and so one of the reasons why even today you have people that are saying, well, we don't really think it's been proven yet, is because they don't. First of all, and almost in every case, they haven't really reviewed the fatality of the citizens' science evidence, and they've also accepted a great deal of what the governments had to say about this.

So they're simply misinformed. Now we get misinformed all the time. What's important about this kind of misinformed is that it's coming from the government itself, which of course is not what we want. It is bad gut policy and can lead to very awful consequences. And so the disclosure movement is a political movement.

It's not a science movement. It is first and foremost trying to recognize the reality of this truth in bargo, the implications of it, and to present the information and issue to the public with factored in right, in other words, remote the publicans saying, look, this is the truth of the matter. The government has tried to undermine that truth. You need to understand.

You've been as the target of that process, the truth in BARCO, which has made it that much more difficult for you to get the picture. We're trying to cut outify that for you. So that's what makes it unusual. Again, it's like being in a trial where the prosecution is doing everything it can, so I have to illegally to undermine your own case, and so you have to operate on a little different basis there, which is to say, this is now a political problem. More science should be done,

and I'm sure there plenty of science it will be done. Plus, we need to know everything the government has learned. But right now, the reason this issue is not resolved it is not because quote there isn't enough scientific evidence. It's because there is not There needs to be a change of policy on the part of the United States government. And I say that meaning the national security structures which have directed this policy and manage this issue and have for some

time got cham now of course as a political tool. Also you know which is what this this site was all about, is getting to what the people are interested in, on what people want to know about from the White House. This is certainly gained some ground that way. What do you expect might be the answer that you received? I guess what there's worth? Things stand? Uh huh, forgive me, I'm trying to get set up here for a second. Here's where things stand. There have been one hundred ninety two

petitions submitted to the White House website for the Weak of People initiative. The disclosure petition has received approximately ninety eight hundred signatures. Is it is twenty first out of one hundred and ninety two in terms of signatures that have obtained. That's very respectable. Not a big number, that's respectable. So people are going to the White House website. They are seeing this petition as part of

this process. They're seeing that it's getting respectable number of signatures, and that's a good thing. The threshold needed to be responded to was five thousand. The disclosure petition got that four days, so there will be a formal response. The other petition that addresses this issue is right under five thousand. I'm quite sure it'll reach that threshold. Since that October five, the White House increased the threshold of twenty five thousand, which was a mistake. It's too

many. They probably shouldn't have increased it to more than ten, which they may correct, but it's not retroactive. But the disclosure petition will receive a response. What that responsibly, I can imagine, but there will be a response, and of course we will heavily publicize it and discuss it around the world. But what I'm really interested in is how many signatures can we get

on this petition? Not having the bath sums of money that a move on dot org has or the National Rightful Association have or ARP has, but having access to the social media like Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, YouTube, email lists and websites, can we share the link to this petition sufficiently to gather

a lot of signatures from around the world. The number of people that believe that there is an et president is roughly fifty percent in most of the industrialized world, and probably around forty percent and the non industrialized world, and it's a huge number, between two and three billion people worldwide. So all we're asking is how many are willing to sign a petition asking the government to acknowledge this truth and obviously start revealing information about it. The link is on a

number of websites. There is an information site for this petition in disclosurepetition dot info, where you can see media coverage, you can get links for your website banners rather where you can see the short link to the petition right which is wh dot gov forward slash, G, capital k C last two letters, ksere or capitalize. Or you can simply Google disclosure petition and it comes right up to the top. I think the short link is number two.

Or you can go to the White House whit house dot go. Simply go to the petitionary where the people look for it, register and sign it. So when order register, what you do is you have to give an email address and you have to give them a little other information. Uh the zip code is is optional and they will publish your signature as first name and last initial, which is a compromise it I would prefer both names, but they're going with the first name last initial. They send to a password by the

way, and then you use that to sign it. You have to register with the site side hand and you can sign a petitions you want, so We're trying to spread that link U, and it is getting spread around, and there is some media coverage. I've been interviewed by the Wall Street Journal waiting on that article. There's been articles in the Huntington Post who wrote one of them yourself. Hopefully we will see this link spread and we can get

this number up. I would certainly like to see it past twenty thousands, which is definitely doable by the end of the month. This is where my interest really lies getting that signature count up. So this issue has a very respectable showing relative to the other petitions on that White House website, and then

we'll see where we'll go from there. Cool. So some of the questions about the White House, just from what you know or from what you've been able to gather, do you know if Obama is aware of the issue, if he at least in any sort of official capacity. Oh, Obama is aware of the issue, my lord. You can't hardly pick up the news or on a web even on news networks and so forth. The issue comes

up, and he's well aware and it needs the issue. But whether or not he's been given a briefing, that don't know what his personal view is We don't know. But the issue, of course is out there. It's been out there a long time and it's getting harder and harder to blow it off. So it's going to be grand to see what the bomb administration does. But the reason for doing this is not that ogie the Oboma administration is going to read that petition to go well, I guess you'd better disclosed.

The reason for doing this is showing this issue. It's getting the awareness and increasing the awareness, getting media covered. Also, it's very notable to keep in mind if the White House website, it is not just a website. It is the website for the most powerful nation in the world. It gets tens of millions of visitors every month. Anybody can go there, including members of the military, intelligence conflict, even the ones operating in the deedless popify

zones, other heads of state. Anybody can go to that website and obviously they can see that petition and so it's being read. It's not signed by people from all over the world. It's the significant So the petition is a message not just the administration but to the world itself. Right, is real and it's not going to go away, and it will be dealt with.

You cannot continue to die a million pound elephants in the realm indefinitely. At some point you're going to have to acknowledge it, because that's very much what this petition is about. Yeah, And the reason I asked that because I think it's interesting in that the intention, of course of the White House opening up the site was to get an idea of what Americans are thinking about, what they think is important, what they want the White House to do,

take take action on, or to speak about. And so it's not like it would be certainly this ingenuous for them to shy away from anything that is a popular issue such as yours. On the site, it's complicated, it's not exactly clear what the White House motivations are, and they are gathering a lot of emails addresses which could be politically useful. But the fact is that they have not significantly promoted this. There have been few or there have been

articles. If you google White House petitions, you will see articles about it, but the President has never mentioned it and no ads have been taken out. So it's like they're deliberately under promoting it. And I can assure you if the President were to mention this in the press conference, the number of petitions would probably go from one hundred and ninety to one thousand, right, and the number of seatures would lead ten, fifteen, twenty four. They

haven't done it, and that's interesting. So as a result, when you look at the petitions, there are many many issues that are not represented there that you would expect to be represented. Now. Not surprisingly, two of the two most represented issues are marijuana reform, marijuana law reform and gun issues. Not surprising there the most that the issue with the most petitions is, in fact the reform of marijuana laws. I think there are twelve petitions out

of whatnoty two. Of course, nobody's surprised. There's a great interest in that. Nobody surprised, huge satisfaction with the war on drugs, which is an American catastrophe, so that it doesn't really that's not going to surprise anybody administration. The disclosure petition is another matter. Now, there is one possibility

here which is remote. I don't know how likely it is, but it's worth mentioning, and that is the the White House when it comes to certain issues, the top politicians like the President and so forth, even senators for instance, if they were to proactively speak to an issue, it would immediately a very controversial issue. We would immediately draw a lot of attention and would attract a lot of attention and people the media would be coming at them and

why are you talking about this? Why aren't you bringing this up? Do you think this is true? And so forth, And which is one of the reasons why they don't do that very much. Right, they talk out of both sides of their mouth. They avoid the controversial stuff. They stick

the talking point and the usual stuff. But one of the aspects of this process, particularly if it grows and they and they promote it a little bit or being really get some serious signature council, is that, well, if someone puts up a petition, say for disclosure, and it gets twenty thousand signatures, and you've agreed in advance without knowing what the issues are going to be, that you're going to formally respond, essentially your response to that issue

is not proactive, but rather you're simply honoring the agreement that you made when you set up the initiative. And so in a way, it gives the administration license to respond to an issue that normally they would not respond to because they would not want to proactively engage it. Right, of course, this is where the press is supposed to do their job. I mean, the list of issues that the press should be challenging all administrations on is a very

long list, and the press just doesn't do it. I don't know what happened to them. I don't know where the media is going. But overall, about five to ten percent of the questions I ask are worth of damn and the most important questions I've never asked. So the media is not doing

this job. So is it possible that the White House is using this to draw in certain issues that will then and then have to respond to them, thus opening up a door they otherwise would not want to open them real so I can assure you that every word in the response to the disclosure petition will be carefully considered. No, that makes a lot of sense that it would be a political strategy in order to get some momentum to pet pet project.

They want to something they want to address, but they want to have an excuse. Well, you know, the American people brought this up to the White House, and are we the people? And that's why we're addressing this issue. But Obama did this before when he was coming into office. He had something set up and you participated in that as well. And that program marijuana taking that subject in particular because it's so high the illegal legalization of marijuana.

It was very high on that one all so, and unfortunately that's one also that has been ignored. It's really if they're asking the people what they think is an important and they want to address these things, it is disingenuous, unfortunately, for them to not address these things when the public is saying, hey, this is you asked and I'm telling you, but you're ignoring me. That was a different situation though, I mean, let's let's compare.

Yeah, that was again an effort to engage the public to be democratic, but it was it was during the transition period after the election, the seventy seven days between the election and the inauguration. The transition team, which interesting enough, was led by John Sedestin, had a website called change dot gov and as an excide of democracy, they in finding people to submit issues that others could vote on so they could get an idea what people were interested

in or what they cared about. As Obama considered quote setting up his team and beginning his term as president. All well and good. There were many hundreds of issues and they got a lot of votes. There were more votes and more issues than you're seeing right now on the petition process in the White House website. But then they promoted it more back then, but that was the transition period. This is three years into the administration at the beginning of

what's going to be a brutal campaign. It's going to cost a couple of billion dollars at least for the next presidency. The president is in trouble is if pooper ratings are low. No president has, no sitting president has ever won a second term with ratings at this level. Of course, there's still a lot of time, so putting this in play now is a much different

situation. And I think that's one of the reasons why they have underpromoted it because, frankly, if they were to promote this, if he were the president he was at just a few days ago, it simply said, you know, the Goloso like to mention that we are initiated a petition process on the White House website. We're seeking petitions on issues of importance of people and people may sign them and this will and we will responding. Had he done

that, the whole thing would have exploded. So it's almost like they're now playing their cards currently measured this this has you know, there's trial balloons going being sent up all over the place here. I'm not ultimately sure where this is going to go right now. As you know, there's a lot of turmoil. There are petitions out there with regarding certain issues, a hundreds of thousands of signatures, but of course they're not on the White House website.

So we're in the early, the early stages of a lot of things. I mean, look, there's a lot of political turmoil in America and in the world, but I but one thing we can say is that disclosure issue is represented. It is there. There are two petitions on that site, amongst the one ninety two. Both are going to be responded to by the administrations. We have put it in play, and we will continue to drive

that petition and seek as many signatures as possible. Again, if the word would spread and people would get motivated and put some major numbers behind that disclosure petition, I guarantee you it would become an international news story that the petition right now with the most signatures is one of the marijuana petitions. I think it's sisted around fifty three thousand, so we have about twenty percent of the top petition. Now, believe me, I mean there's enough people out there

that want the marijuana laws reformed. I mean that petition could have a million signatures. But again, not enough people know that thing has even happened on the White House website, which is why I'm doing media. I've already done about thirty interviews and I've brought you thirty more before the mid November. I'm doing what I can to promote not only the disclosure petition, but this initiative by the White House. Look, it's a good idea, but if the

people don't participate, it will have less impact. So how many people out there want the truth about the et president? How many people are ready to see this truth and bugle ended? Are you willing to put your first name and last initial behind that? If so, you need to go to White House dot go, go to we the People Register, get a password, sign in and sign the disclosure petition, or go get the link off the

disclosurepetition dot info or at Paradigm research Group dot org. The link is turning up all over the place, wh dot gov forwards, last G, Capital, K, Capital, C and sign it And as the numbers grow, I assure you there'll be more media. And as there's more media turns up, there'll be more signatures and we may have ourselves a real strong statement. That's the goal. It's only been approximately twenty days since the petition went up, all right, so it's just three weeks. We have time, so

again i'd like to see people get involved. Yeah, so your primary goal of awareness is what you're looking for something I think you've definitely achieved, which is great and will continue to achieve. And I know this isn't your primary goal, but I'm just out of curiosity. I was curious about your thoughts on some of these other aspects, what if another what if scenario. Obama took a look at this and he said, wow, this is interesting.

You know, people Americans are really into this subject. I want to find out more. Do you think he'd be able to especially considering and do you feel I guess the second part of this question would be that that's what Clinton did when he was president. There's a story, of course of him telling Webster Hubble, who is going to be the deputy Attorney general, go look into UFOs, and he kind of even alludes to that I tried to look

into UFOs but didn't find anything. Do you think he's telling the truth? And do you think Obama could be more successful? This is a very very complicated question. A lot up into the Clinton administration is a huge story and and and it's starting to get out. It'll be it'll be written up in my book hopefully which comes out early next year. But he didn't really matter what Clinton wanted to know or knew or wanted to know, and he did

try to learn some information. He was not going to allow me to disclosure president. Period. Wasn't gonna happen. Uh, he was not going to be the disclosure president. You said he was not going to allowed to be. He was not going to be allowed to be even if he wanted to be. Well, you know, if if the military intelligence committees that do manage this issue are not willing to cooperate with the president, it would be

incredibly risky for the president to go forward. The president will go forward saying there's an et presence, but in the military and toast community, you don't back them up and won't provide him information. I mean, you're you're looking at the potential for a massive constitutional crisis, huge you know, myth, and we would not be good. And so what is required and what we ultimately expect will happen is that either if Bob, disclosure needs to be initiated

by both the military intelligence community and the executive branch. Which who will move first is hard to say. I think the military intelligence community is most likely to move first that one way of another, some representatives of the president, operating absolutely privately, will at some point meet with representatives of the military intelligence management committees on the ET issue, and they will privately agree to go forward

and disclosure will take place. That's why this petition is important because it's on the White House website. It's it's successible not just to the White House staff, but to the CIA staff and the NFA staff and THEDIA staff and everybody else in the classified world, as well as other foreign country. He's in

their government, government, governing people. So he's just well, look, it's nicely positioned, you know, location, location, location, So Obama, Obama wants to respond to this, he would and he wanted to initiate it, what he would have to do is he would have to send some some private uh uh queries, probably in person, and the theories as a word, dam the military intelligence community in a very discreet way, and and and and ask if they would engage it and talk about this. As far

as him demanding information, I don't think that works that way. And if he probably did it, that would be interesting. But I'll say this, whatever that his response, whatever it comes to be, is going to be I guarantee you publicized around the world. I mean, pr to make sure that. But I think there's going to be plenty of health there. So if they if they if any number of things that they could say in that

response, that would open the door. And so I now that you know then there was there's ways, I mean, you can open the door without admitting anything, right if that was the Ibomb administration, what I would do if I wanted to see this take place but was simply unable to unilaterally act on it. Ah, And keep in mind, one of the key advisors to the president is is you know but not outside government is John Podesta, the head of his transition team. John Podesta called at least of all UFO

files twice two thousand two, two thousand and three. Right, he is. He supports the co Listen for Freedom of Information, which is in fact an organization created to quote advanced to disclose your process. So what I would do is I would respond in such a way that the door would open for

the media to come through. Words just give them just enough of an opening that they would go, hello, what and they would come through, and then the media would suddenly start asking tough questions and the administration would, I guess, be put into a corner where they have to discuss it. And at that point things could go very very quickly. So this is a possibility. On the other hand, they may just blow it off. They may

come back with some basic response other than I am not aware. We're not aware that there's any true to any of this information, and therefore we see no basis to engage it. Now. That could also be interesting, because I can assure you that the public response worldwide to that is not going to be favorable, and it's going to track a lot of attention. Well, they've continue to do that, though, and that has not really had enoughfect.

The Air Force continues to say that CIA. They all have websites where they say that, and really nobody's except for people like us, nobody's really paid attention or tried to call attention to it. Well, it's one thing for the Air Force to release a standard response that are saying we do not investigate this phenomena, and whatever this phenomena is does not pose a risk to the American people. It's another thing for the President of the United States the

executive branch to respond and make statement on the issue. That's a whole different matter that is going to be worldwide news. All right. Well, Kit made that statement twice. I mean there's a couple of times where he said I looked into it, I found out that there was nothing to it. Each time had the caveat that usually jokingly that maybe they're keeping even secrets from me. But I mean he did say I didn't find anything to any of

this. That's not my recollection, Alejandro, and I'm paying pretty close attention here. Clinton never said that. He said that twice. He said that to the Air Force. He said it both out of the country, actually, but he said it in Hong Kong. The video that I had with your with your story on the Huffington Post and then go ahead, I'll have

to review the Hong Kong video in the Ireland statement. That was a very interesting line which he didn't have to say at all, but he indicated in a response to a query from a child that had asked him about Roswell, he said, well, I don't know if there's anything at Roswell, but I'd sure like to find out. As far as the Hong Kong statement on releases, but many of these are formal statements by the White House. They're

almost toss off and allegedly according to Stephen and I can't verify this. Sarah McClinton told him that Clinton told her that he would like to know about it, but he can't get the information. I can't. I can't verify that I knew, and I knew her fairly well, that's a quite formal response from the President. This is going to be a formal response to the petition by the White House that will be sent out to every person that has signed

the petitioner, as well as the court. Me right, and that and by the way, and this is twenty eleven, it had nineteen ninety three, right, just twenty years later, in the last ten years, over a dozen countries have released tens upon tens of thousands of UFO files, some classified, mostly not, into the public domain, and those those files have been downloaded tens of millions of times around the world. Witnesses have come forward,

there have been major press conference. This is a different time. So all I can say is, whatever this response is, I assure you that PRG is going to do everything it can to make sure that many people responsible know what this response is and to respond accordingly. And if it's a real blow off, then what I mean may do is is start up another position on the law on the way to people based upon that response, making slightly different demands, and go out and try to get even more signatures. I

mean, they've opened up the door here. Now they can close it at any time. But if they're going to open up the door and you're an advocate and the issue is what it is, well this one is you're going to go through that door to everything you can and that's what PRG is doing. Yeah, that's great that you're taking advantage of that too, and that you know there's someone like you there to keep an eye on that. But

you did say something that I thought was pretty shocking. Earlier, you said that you felt that the military intelligence community, right, which seems to be the people that really are holding the key to the information, and they decide whether it gets out or not, be regardless of what any president wants. But what makes you think they would have any reason or will to put the information out? I think you said that you think that they would move and

they would release information before the president. Given keeping in mind that we're talking about people that operate in extreme secrecy. There has been a consensus amongst a number of the activists and some the researchers for a while, going back to late nineteen nineties two thousand, that the consensus inside is probably in favor now of going forward with disclosure. But it's a consensus, yeah, the words just a slight majority. That there's still going to be people that are opposed

to it. And why would that be, Well, it's my jock, you but those shots some people, the people that that run and work in the national security realms are basically good American citizens. They're not evil, they're not Illuminati, they're not Satanists, They're they're military officers, they're intelligence officers. Uh, they're they're under de classification, they're they're they're they're paid well, but not extraordinarily well. I can assure you they're a hell of a

lot more honest than most of the politicians of the country right now. And their job is this is to protect the national security and defend the constitution, and that's and that's what they do. Uh. And I believe that they certainly in the last ten years, have come to understand that they continuance of this truth embargo is in fact not in the national securities interests, that it is dvanmaging the social contract and helping to see the massive distrust which is growing

day by day in America toward government by the people. And of course the polls show this. The numbers are rather phenomenal. It's amazing the country's hanging together. And so I think that given the right circumstances, possibly with the assistance of media, that this thing comes out and they make a move. But because they control the information, because they have the evidence, and by and mark, the presidents can't get at that information, they pretty much call

the shots. Now that in and of itself is something that the American people need to look at real seriously, are they comfortable with this idea of having a massive national security secret world that controls huge amounts of information that the Congress and the President don't know about and are therefore able to quote decide what it's told and what doesn't and maybe even what policies take place based upon their control of the secret information. Is this what we want? Is this the government

we want? I think most people don't want that, but they don't know enough to realize that that's exactly what they've got. Now, again, that doesn't mean that the people that control the information are criminals or evil or anything

else. They are operating in a system that they didn't necessarily create. It involved since nineteen forty five, primarily in response to the Soviet threat and secondarily in response to the et presence, and they created and what was created was what I call the Secret Empire, the largest secret complex in history, bast in its scope, fast in its funding, and co increasingly removed from political

oversights. So but then I said, create even people working in and now, but that's what we have now that that needs to be reformed, I'm pretty sure. But when that reform takes place, I don't know. I think disclosure. The act of disclosure is the best path to eventually reforming this vast secret conflict so that it's more in line with our democratic principles in our founding constitution. But these are huge issues. But the consequences, let me

tell you, of not dealing with these issues, are potentially great. Uh. This is not trivial stuff, right, and not talking about you know, land use rights in Wyoming or whether we should drill offshore or not drill offshore. We're talking about a vast secret empire that has been created and now spend huge sums of money and operates without oversight and the form of policy do with whole the acknowledgement of an extraterustrial presence engaging in our planet. This is

huge stock. It's so big. Yeah, for the number of people I can't see, it's too big to see. Yeah. I agree that that's one of the huge issues we have going on right now. People aren't addressing. Washington posted a big write up, but it doesn't really seem to be catching on. Is this secrecy out of control? And you talked about how these people are good people, and I totally Although that might not be a

popular opinion in this build. You know, I think you're right. These are just normal people like you and I doing a job and working in this world of this secrecy out of control with the other side though, and the other possible reasons for secrecy. You had talked earlier about abduction and people having interactions with extra treasure girls. Do you believe in this scenario of the fear of releasing the information because it's too scary, that there's possibly malevolent force that

and they don't want people to know about that this scary situation. Well, first of all, millions, tens of millions of people know about this situation, right, But there's a movie huge and different and have opinions as to whether it's an evasion by malevolent people or or if it's uh, these oversight by these wiser beings there. There's of course a wide variety of opinion that

way. Well, but your original point was that there is conductions going on, there's contact going on, and without getting into motives and parsing that uh, that that's a scary thing and they don't want to talk about it. Well, and again, huge millions of people, more millions of people every year more makes people come to understand that there is contact going on. I mean, books have been writ about it, movies have been done about it.

Uh, it's hard. It's hardly a secret anymore. So we already know that, and if dust, the stories in many cases are unsettling. So basically what we have here is the people know, the government denies, so it just makes it that much more frightening. So the idea that, oh, we can't tell the people what they already know because they'll get scared, now that's silly in terms of malevolence. Look, I use this analogy. The Germans are massing huge numbers of tanks on the French border, right,

and tens of thousands of troops. The French government learns about this, but makes the decision not to inform the French people because they're pretty convinced that the Germans intentions from a level, and so they just let the French people

go about their business and then one day the tanks roll in. That's kind of the scenario that's being suggested, that it's the EP's intentions are bad, better not tell anybody, so we can all just go about our lives until they all show up one day and start hurting us into pens to be fed to their pet dog. Ridiculous. I will make the case it would be happy to make it to any sociology professor at Harvard if they would even deem to have me on campus, But of course they don't want me one hundred

miles from that campus. They were incredibly relieved when John Mack was killed by an automobile in London, and one day they're going to pay for their arrogance.

Nevertheless, I would make the case that if in fact there is malevel and ten upon these next interrestrials, that is the number one reason why every nation in the world should acknowledge that presence to all seven billion of us, so we can decide together what we're going to do about it and take that burden off the backs of the few select individuals who are carrying that burden in

the national security structures. We take it to bed every night, right knowing, oh my God, that e d's are coming, and only I know about it because we can't tell anybody else. That's nonsense. And so it's time for the government to realize that they serve us, we don't serve them. They work for us, we don't work for them, and anything that concerns our well being is our uh is our right to know, and that the sooner they tell us, the better. And that's the case I'd be

happy to make. If somebody in government wants to step forward to make the counter case, well, we can't tell you about the trust the presence, because we do think it would cause the problem. I'd be happy to have that debate. But they're never going to do that. They're never even going to admit there's something that they can't tell. So the whole thing is contaned.

In other words, el Jandro is a self driving, a perpetuating process of secrecy and denial that leads nowhere right, And so they're trapped in their own Crucian bargo and they can't get out. So we need to reach in with a healthy hands and pull them out. Now, do you think that the scenario may exist? Some people like Nick Pope and John Alexander kind of are in this area that they believe that a large part of the reason of the secrecy is that they don't know and they don't want to admit that.

You know, we've got these things flying around in these people here, and we don't know what the heck they're doing. Do you believe that they possibly could be in the state of confusion themselves? Not for one milliseconds. We know what the citizen scientists movement has been able to determine with no money whatsoever. I mean a total amount of money that has been spent on euthology since forty seven. We're probably not even played the long care bills of your typical

movie star. But given what we have been able to ascertain without government support, with actual government intervention over sixty years. And then consider the government which has had over those sixty years trullions of dollars of funding. The Air Force is a navy, satellite systems, radar systems, they advanced communications technicism.

We don't even know about huge resources, underground basis, underground facilities, and the idea that bold they know even less than we know is utterly absurd, Not to mention the fact that we have documents that indicate they know. We

also have witnesses to come forward to indicate they know. And so if someone wants to say, oh, the government figured out whether it might be ets in nineteen forty seven, but too complicated for them, and so they haven't done a single bout it since then and just left it people to do it. Well, they stay completely ignorant. It's ridiculous. So I said, I'll buy that for one second. And I know if John and I, Alexander and I can debate again, we'll all be happy to discuss that with

him. Gotcha. And yeah, although with even these the people in the public, civilian scientists like you're talking about, of course, there's a large amount of ideas and opinions, huge the gamut is from one end to the other on what may be going on, So it's hard to say anybody's necessarily figured much out. But except for that, there is some sort of visitation. I wouldn't count on that. Yeah, there's plenty of evidence for crash

vehicles, numbers of crashes. Roswell was a crash vehicle, They had bodies, evidence for living bodies. So I think it's quite likely the government has had access to crash vehicles for sixty years and possibly living extra drust Gee moving, yeah, moving on that. If you want me to tell we're gonna put my money, I'll put my last die down and I'll give away one hundred to one odds that the government knows more about this issue than we do.

Yeah, uh, moving on, No, Yeah, I just wanted to ask all this gamut of questions just to get your idea on some of these things. But getting back to kind of what you've been working on. Exopolitics has been really popular, especially around the world. I mean, there's lots of these exopolitics groups popping up. We've had a couple write articles for the magazine What is exopolitics to you? There are kind of a few different

definitions out there. What is it to you? And what do you see since you're out there among these countries, the appeal and what they're looking for in exopolitics. Exopolitics is same as exopolitical science. It is the political and kind of social and complications of this issue and all its manifestations past, president future. What's important about the concept is it's a new language deliberately created in order to describe a new situation. Wow, we're not so much interested in

the science of the ful phenomena. Others are, and they've done a lot. We're sitting a political ramifications government actions and involvements, future government policies and so forth. We're truk In other words, we're seeking a political resolution so consequently we need language appropriate to that. So exopolitics is a term designed to reflect the political engagement of this issue and the disclosure movement. The disclosure movement

is simply one part of exopology is not so much a day. The disclosure movement is exopolitical. That's another way to look at it. The reason it's gaining popularity is because people have figured out that the science, the citizens science effort, could not resolve the issue. If the government is going to refuse to acknowledge it, if the government's going to withhold what it knows, if it's going to deny there's anything there, then the citizen science effort is hampered

to the point of not being able to resolve the issue. And so consequently we've got to move to the political area. So for a lot of people, they see an exo partics of the disclosure movement, a real possibility of finally resolving this issue, at least at the formal to the initial level, which is the acknowledgement of the presence. Once that's done, all doors open

up and anything happened, and a lot will happen. So exopolitics reflects or presents to people a real possibility of actually resolving this issue in their lifetime, and so naturally they're excited about it, and they should be excited about it. That's not to say that the science and euthology what are you going to call it, is not important and it continues to go on. It will go on. That's fine, and I'm not saying that you stop that.

I'm simply saying that it's not enough. We have to, you know, resolve this political policy, which is what everything the Paradigm Research Group does, whether it's the Disclosure petition, whether it's the ex conference, whether it's the million facs in Washington, everything it does, it's designed to achieve one goal, and that is disclosure. And another project which is underway right now that I definitely want to mention is World Disclosure Day. Now. World Disclosure Day

is another referendum underway. It gives people a chance to sign to their interests here. Now it's not an official government thing, but it is in fact a project at PRG. World Disclosure Day dot org is prg's effort to get July d eight acknowledged by the public, not by the government, as the day of the year to address the issue, to speak to it to old events and conferences and whatever, just like Earth Day. But what's important is that the way it's set up is that people can go and endorse it.

We're trying to get people in organizations to endorse this concept, just like Earth Day. As we get more endorsements, we'll get more media coverage and this will develop. So these endorsements are are listed on the World Disclosed Day dot org website. Now we're up to forty six hundred endorsements by people and organizations of World Disclosure Day, and that number is going to continue to increase.

So there is another opportunity for people to vote now. And in that case, we're posting both first and last name, city, state, so it's a strong, strong signature. Right We're not posting an address, we're not

posting an email address, but we're posting first and last name. So right now, PRG is encouraging people to sign a disclosure petition, sign or endorse rather their World Disclosure Day and share both links with as many people as they can on their Facebook, MySpace, Twitter accounts, and on their email list and see if we can garnish more and more sign support to this issue and that will help PRG, generate more media, coverag and everybody can find out

about everything you're doing here at the Paradigmresearchgroup dot org. Correct, YESMB, all right, great because we are out of time. Of course, that flew like I knew it would, and it feels like it was a couple of minutes, but it's already been an hour. Thanks Alejandro. Want to mention that I will be speaking in Louisville, Kentucky at the the Faculous Conference. You can see the link on my sites or google it. That's December

sixteenth through eighteen and could be an important event. So I'll look forward to seeing people in Louisville. And also there's some more movies coming out. More Eten movies are on the way. It never stops. There's new books being published. I certainly encourage people to read ad After Disclosure by Richard Dolan and Bryce label On. My book hopefully will be coming out early next year. If I can sit down, funk and stuff in one place and write it

cool, I bet a lot of people are looking forward to it. Thanks all right, great, Thank you so much for being on the show, and remember people Paradigm Research Group dot org. All right, thanks, good luck, with the petition. We'll be keeping a very close eye on it, that's for sure. Thank you. Welcome all right, hopefully you could hear okay. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get Steve to turn off that dang speaker phone, so this sound wasn't as good as I had hoped, but

hopefully you still heard everything. Okay. We are completely out of time, so thank you so much for listening to Open Minds Radio. Listen to us next week. We're gonna have another great show. Also, don't forget to visit Openminds dot tv for more UFO news. Talk to you next week, people,