Hello, and welcome to the Open Mind UFO Radio. We are back from the holidays. They were crazy and wild, and we thought we were going to do a show last week, but uh, and of course we're on Tuesday in Sada, Monday today. Because Jason was our last holiday traveler. He went to New York City. How is that cold? But good? Yeah, extremely cold, not as cold as uh, Chicago and some other places that were in the like negative twenty with the windchill they were saying even
beyond that, they're saying Chicago was colder than the South Pole. Still sorry for those guys. Yeah, I heard about that. That is wild and crazy staff, but yeah I was there. Nice nice blizzard. It was a tropical or winter storm Hercules hit the East coast and covered us with snow, and so I guess I got to see when my wintertime snow, not something we we typically see in the Phoenix area, Alejandro, mm hmm. And which is also kind of ironic because you usually when it comes to the
name Hercules, it is equated to something that is warm and cuddly. Oh I know. Yeah, it was a funny thing, and that's why I'll always remember my time in winter storm Hercules, because Hercules, she's just one of my dogs, one of your little fur ball's little cuties. And funny enough, it was Maureen who had to deal with Hercules in her own way, which can be hard because you've got them ready to go to bed at
eight o'clock. You know, they have this schedule and boom, they want it done this way, and and Maureens efferts the consequences when when she is not meeting their regular schedule. Well, sometimes she's a good friend. She fills in on dog dog watch duty, dog duty, dog duty. Yeah, there's plenty of that in New York. It was funny watching the dogs in the snow. Yeah, yeah, cool. Well, I'm glad you made it back safely. Thank goodness for that. Yeah, you know,
and I was. I was supposed to meet up with our friendly Spiegel, but but the weather kind of have for those plans as well. He got stuck out out on the island and so he worked from home and we didn't get to rendezvous. But still a good time. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, I guess he Huffington posting they mostly stayed home from the weather and work from home. It sounds like a lot of businesses there do, and it depends on the business. I mean, some just hey, it's normal.
You know, it's cold and awful and snowy, but that's that's the way it is here, so deal with it, business as usual. But otherre's you know, people love excuses for snow days. Yeah. I remember in Colorado, Yeah totally when he had a snow day. It was like exciting. It was like, heck, yeah, snow day and you run outside and be crazy and happy and even though it's cold and snowy. Yeah.
Well, speaking of Chicago where it's super cold and snowy, our guest for today who will be on in a little bit, it's from that area. And actually his name is Sam Moronto, and he's a state director for Illinois Moveline and he's been into UFOs for a long time. Actually you might have heard him on Coast to Coast before, but he has investigated some important sightings such as a Tinley Park siding almost like a phoenix lights in the Chicago
area. That was in two thousand and four, where the mass sighting of a triangular lights and a couple other really important sightings from police officers and pilots, and of course the Chicago hair event took place out there just a few years ago, and we'll talk to him about that as well. So lots of exciting things to talk to Sam about today in just a few minutes.
But before that, my good buddy Jason McClelland and I like to review some of our favorite stories, or at least usually a favorite story from the last couple of weeks. I may hit on two, maybe not, But Jason, why don't you go first? What is a story that you like in particular from the last couple of weeks. Well, because I just spent a lot of time in airports and on airplanes, I'm going to talk about something
here from the last week of twenty thirteen. There was a UFO that caused some air traffic problems in Beijing. The China Civil Aviation Administration picked up a UFO on radar at the Beijing International Airport and this caused flights to be diverted, and they eventually determined that the object this UFO was a surveillance drone and we're seeing that more and more, and it's really dangerous in Slaviia of people
to be flying anything over airports. You know, the airspace is heavily controlled and a lot of places have strict laws against flying anything in that airspace and people can be fined and jailed quite severely for breaking that. But we're seeing more of these UFOs over airports, and many times they end up being drones
or something like that. But just just today there was another story about a similar situation in Germany at an airport where a UFO appeared multiple times on radar and authorities were alerted to it, and people in the tower at the airport, as well as police officers themselves, in addition to seeing onto radar, they saw this UFO with their own eyes. There hasn't been a physical description of this object released yet, but they say it was flying it approximately one
thousand feet. The police went up in a helicopter and tried to chase this thing and see what it was, but by the time they got up there, they couldn't find the object. They couldn't see the UFO, so they searched and eventually called off the search. But so far they haven't been able
to identify what this object was. And like in Beijing this at the Germany airport, flights were diverted, traffic was was hindered by this UFO sighting, but it appeared on radar and they haven't been able to determine what it was. Yeah, pretty interesting, and that kind of goes into, you know, the story which is kind of making some rounds in the last couple of
days too, that we reported on the day after Christmas. But actually I got this story from the Daily Mirror so and they wrote it on December twenty second, So it's kind of surprising that, you know, this story is making it big off of a sudden again, you know, weeks later after Daily Mire talked about it, and which is one in London sort of near
Heathrow Airport. It didn't affect airport traffic at all, but it was in the London area where Yeah, pilot looks up, he sees he ducks and then grabs his co pilot and then says, hey, did you see that? Co pilot says no, he's kind of freaking out. Eventually, they actually turn it into the air PROCs Board, who investigates near missus. They looked into it and they couldn't figure out what it might have been. They considered certain things like a drone or balloon or anything, but they were too
high for that. In the end, they just decided, we don't know what the heck it was. But that was also, I think a really interesting case because nobody's determined what it was that this guy saw, and he was so adamant that what he had seen was strange cigar shape that he felt he should report it. So along with this Germany, when I mean these civilian pilot sightings or civilian aviations sightings are really interesting because unfortunately, as we
know, the military is kind of lacked up. They're not really looking into this stuff even in the UK, So where we get this information from these civilian sources when they want to share that information, so kind of cool. Yeah, the Germany one's cool that you know, we hear from air traffic controllers that you know, they did definitely see it on radar multiple times. They saw it with their own eyes through binoculars, and the police saw it
and actively investigated. And I believe we're still investigating this case trying to find out what it was over the airport, and there's a perfect example of a place where I believe, you know, people breaching that airspace can face up to something like ten years in prison, so you know, they take it
very seriously and it's great to see that. And we love the UK stories too because they have that UK air PROCs board board that they're they're tasked with investigating these near misses and it's scary how often he's near misses actually occur. You know, it's very scary not knowing what's in airspace and it is causing
potential harm to people. So yeah, we've written quite a few stories about the air proc sport in the UK because nearly they do they meet I think it to buy yearly twice a year and they review the cases of near misses and for safety concerns and I think it and practically every single one of their reports there's been at least one you know, unidentified object where it's it's not just something they didn't know what it was, where they thought it was probably
a burder balloon. They have though, certainly, but there are cases like this where the pilots see something unusual like a disc or in one case, a black triangle or some of these incredible things that you know people typically report as UFOs. These pilots see them and they almost hit them or almost get hit by them, and then report those and that every time the air proc
spoard usually comes up with we don't know what it was either. You're right, and you know, they do in many of those cases take into account and they mentioned it in the reports that you know, we considered the possibility of it being a drone or a balloon. But even after considering that and looking into it, investigating the case, they rule those out. You know, they say, yeah, it's a possibility, but not likely. We've determined that it's not likely, and therefore we have no idea. We don't
know, right. I love seeing that, you know, they still have unknowns. I mean, I love seeing it. It's scary, but I do love seeing it that, you know, they they are going on a record saying that, hey, they are unidentified objects. We don't know what these things are. They're in our airspace and hopefully, you know, more more of these will come out and that will encourage official investigation to happen, you know, on a more global scale. Mm hmm, yeah, I
mean. And what I think is interesting though too, with all of these near misses which has gone on since you know, the forties, even you know, the Foo fighter stuff. They have near misses. But what I think is interesting, and some researchers may disagree, I know, but I don't think there's ever been a case where there's been evidence that any aircraft has been hit by any of these unknowns, and so it's it's it comes to question, why are they doing this? You know, why do they mess
with us? Why do they they veer off at the last minute. It would make sense they have the technology not to hit us, and they don't. But then why did they fly so close to these aircraft? It's kind of it's kind of brings up a lot of interesting questions. I think it does. And you know, you can hear all sorts of varying opinions and whether or not planes have been hit by these UFOs. You know, we hear many stories about collisions with birds and people don't want to believe that it
was actually birds. And yeah, there was the Air China jet from last year with the nose cone damage and people thought it hit a UFO, but you know, the official explanations was that it was most likely was it the radar or something. Well, there were lots of pilots who said, this is kind of common where there's a radar in the nose and when it malfunctioned that it will cause the nose to implode like that. So it was a
very fairly common thing. Strange looking, but common, right. So, and you know one of those people who would disagree, and he may be speaking about this is Timothy Good who's been a researcher for a long time, but he feels that there have been aircraft down by UFOs and he'll be speaking at the Congress in just a few weeks. Yeah, that's coming up very
quickly. I wanted to mention too, just because it's a funny aspect to this story, and I didn't I don't think you mentioned it, but you talked about how there are legal ramifications for flying drones near airports, and the people who were doing it in Beijing were some workers. You know, they work for a company. They use these drones to survey areas for building and stuff like that, and once they figured out who it was, they arrested
those guys. Yeah. Yeah, so they were arrested even though you know, they've worked for a private company and they're just doing their job or you know, they should have known the laws better, and they got arrested for flying that drone around the airport. Yeah, that's right. Well, sir, what is your story of the week? My story of the week. Are you ready for it? I think I am? Are you ready for
it? All? Right? Do it? Well? My story for the week is actually I wanted to ask you about did you get a look at the UFO. I'm kind of putting you on the spot. I guess the UFO hotspots story I did? I did? Okay, cool, because I'd
like to talk about that one. So what I did, And I've done this before, so listeners who have been listening for well a few years, well, no, I do this pretty much every year where I take the move on data and I throw it into an Excel and I play with it to figure out, you know, where the sidings have been, and then
play with find if I can find any sort of trends or anything. So the way I put together data is typically well, and I did it this time, is by where the most sightings are and then also where the most sightings are per person, So finding out where are there more sightings per person versus just how many sightings there are, because typically the number of sightings are
higher there are more people, which makes sense. So if you have so that's not necessarily an accurate representation, because you're always gonna have California, Texas, New York, all these highly populated areas towards the top. But the per person kind of shows, you know, where are there an inordinate amount of sidings for the number of people out there to find more hot spots?
And really, you know, for the number of sidings, we had California's number one, then Florida, Texas, Pennsylvania, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Arizona, not surprising. But when you do it for a per person, you have Maine, Vermont, Arizona, New Mexico, New Hampshire, Michigan, and Colorado. So which is sort of similar to when I've done this before. When you look at the actual number of sidings that they have gotten, if you look at like Maine or Vermont, they're pretty low.
So Vermont doesn't have very many people, so they had twenty five sidings, which you know, they don't need very many sightings to throw that per person number higher. But here again, you know, our home state, Arizona had two hundred and sixty one sidings, which is nearly four sightings per one hundred thousand persons. But it puts it at the top of the list.
You could really say Arizona is definitely a hot spot. Yet again, other states where I think you could comfortably say that our New Mexico, Michigan, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, so kind of interesting, Washington, and then Missouri's up there too, But Washington and Oregon. You know, I think this is really interesting, and this is kind of something you don't care
a lot about, but we do. We get people from Washington and Oregon, and I've heard from people in Washington Oregon area to say they have sidings up there all of the time. I really think that's and lots of times these numbers reflect that. I really think, yeah, kind of is a hotspot area that is not something that is talked about, but is reflected over
and over again anecdotally and in these numbers. And then places like the southwest, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, those I've always found to be hot spots when I run the numbers, and so that's not too surprising, but so it's kind of interesting to run this stuff again. Yeah, I'm so glad you do it every year, and you're right. I mean, you can look at just number of sightings and you know, take it for what it's worth, but I think it's more more valuable to look at it based
on the population. So you're breaking it out like that really does help and paints a better picture. And yeah, you're right. I mean, it's it's very similar year after year where we see the true hotspots and that Pacific
Northwest, you know, along the coast of Oregon. Lots of interesting stories out there, And you're right, you know, depending on on the region you're in, you know, the local communities, there are some pockets there where people are very used to seeing UFOs and say it's a normal occurrence, and uh yeah, some really interesting stories and you're right, you don't hear
too much about that. There are there are stories and some people talking about those areas as hotspots, but not as much as you hear other places like New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, or even sometimes other areas that you know, it seems like practically every state you know and countries, they like to write stories where they claim they're a hot spot because they get sightings, and to a reporter who's not in the know, they may think, wow,
it doesn't sightings. That's a lot we must be a hot spot. Little did they know. There's lots of reportings all over the country. I mean, what we're talking about here is Moufon got nearly seventy five hundred sidings in twenty thirteen. Are over seventy five hundred, and about a thousand of those a little more were in other countries, and then about sixty five hundred of those were in the United States. So that's a lot of freaking sightings,
a whole lot of sightings. You're right. It's funny when you'll see local papers or something talking about sightings and they'll do some research and find out there about other sightings in that particular city, and they'll see, we're apparently a UFO hotspot. We've had four sightings in the last ten years. Yeah, all right, Yeah, it's kind of funny. So a couple other things I did list the different kind of shapes I did have that, so that
was somewhat interesting. Mostly people saw spears and circles or starlike which makes sense, and then triangles and fireballs were up there. But I didn't find anything
too interesting even when I looked at that month by month. The other interesting thing I did find, though, is that for twenty thirteen, there was definitely a spike in August, and I took out there was a spike overall in August, so I decided to find out that was just in the US or also non US areas, so I pulled that out separately, and even in non US reports there was a spike in August. So definitely a spike in sightings in August, which is kind of interesting. I didn't see any
differences when I looked at the type of objects that we reported. It was kind of similar to any other month. But that was kind of interesting, So that would be fun to kind of explore some more. Also, I think it's it's typical to see more sightings in the summer and in the US.
You know, some people credit that to summer box office movies that might have to do an extraterrestrial themes, and we did have a lot of sidelines, but you know, that's certainly possibility and can account for some of those, I'm sure. But I'm of the opinion that, you know, the weather is typically better in the summer for people, and therefore you have more people outside, and therefore you have more people who might see or be looking
at the sky. Yeah, I'm with you. That's also, you know, a good reason for why places like New Mexico, Arizona have more sightings because you generally have warmer weather and people are outside and therefore looking at the sky more than people would be in like Chicago right now, where it's very very cold. Yeah. The skeptics, the hardcore skeptics, And we should
come up with our own term for those hardcores. I mean the ones who are just they won't believe anything, you know, they're not really open minded skeptics. The closed minded skeptics. They like to, you know, blame movies for everything. This whole phenomena is because of sci fi movies. But I'm with you. I might have a slight effect, but I think that the clear skies would have a much larger effect, or that would be a bigger reason why there are more sightings in August than movies. People can go
to the siding, to the to the look at this story. It's just called UFO Hotspots of twenty thirteen, and I did list every single state and the number of sidings they have and then the number of reports they have per one hundred k people. So you can go look at that to see where your state fits there, and it looks like at the bottom, which is the most interesting Georgia, Georgia, Virginia and New York City, we're pretty
low. But of course, having been to New York for the first time in the last few months, and you knowing because you've been living you've lived there before, you can't see a lot of sky past the skyscrapers in that's right in many areas. All right, Well, thank you mister McClellan. As usual, it's an absolute pleasure, and I'm sure the listeners are very excited to hear your voice again. Always my pleasure to talk with you, Alejandro, and you know, we've had some great stories, so it's it's
always fun talking with you and everyone else about these great stories. Yeah, looking forward to the conference too. It's coming up really quick. Yeah, the International UFO Congress is right around the corner. So very excited about that and very excited to see as many listeners there as possible. And as we always say, feel free to come up and say hello because we love chatting with you for the brief periods of three seconds we have while we're running around
making sure everything is mostly working there so mm hmm. I was just gonna say, they can come up and give you a hug, but I shouldn't say that because that's your personal space. It's only bade my personal space. So you'll at least shake their hand though, right, yeah, and then I might go in for the hug. We'll see, all right, cool? All right, you heard it here, get your free hugs from Jason
McClellan at the UFO Congress this year. I didn't hear that, all right, Well, moving on, let us hear some interesting insights and stories from a longtime UFO investigator, a really cool guy and actually he's been a friend for quite some time, and I'm really surprised that he hasn't been on the show until now. I know we were trying to schedule it in the past and just couldn't make things work. So I'm really happy we were this time. So let's hear from Sam Moronto. I am very excited to have Sam
Moronto on the phone. I'm known him for quite some time. And you run Illinois. Move on out there, hello U Sam. Yes, it is both my privilege and honor to be the director of the State of Illinois, and it's also a privilege and honor to be on the show with my good friend. I haven't seen in ages, though, I have to say you have a great show. Listen to it quite regularly and oh I love
Opened Minds some magazines is great. Well, you know when I started the showh, I remember you were one of the people I wanted to get on at the very beginning, but something happened. I think we tried to schedule something and it it just didn't work out. And surprisingly it's taken this along to have you on the show finally here, and I'm sure we could cover a lot of territory and if not, I'd be more to have to come back anytime. Yeah, that would be great. I'm sure that will be
warranted because you've been in this for a long time. So I guess let's just start off with that. What got you into UFO research? I had. I had my first experience in nineteen fifty nine with something that could be called an unidentified aerial phenomena up at Fox Lake where I was standing near a body of water. It's basically a channel at back my uncle's cottage that he
was building. He had put a new oh, he drilled and they had they drilled a new well up front, and of course Sammy being you know, interested to see there really was water down There was dropping stones and things down there. So he's yelling at me as a get out of there. So I run on the back by the channel. I'm throwing rocks in the
water, you know, a little kid. All of a sudden, there's this brilliant self aluminous orb comes flying over my right shoulder, goes in back of a tree next door, comes back out, and it became very dark. I was just I felt heat my whole body. The sensation was that of heat. I felt shocked. And then my aunt came back and was looking for me. She goes, where have you been all this time? I've been looking for you for hours. I'm like what, and it's all
dark out. I have no idea what transpired. Wow, But that event led to other different things that I couldn't even talk about for many, many years, Alejandro, many years. And actually how I got interested into the subject, but that was my first encounter with something I'd have to say is an anonymous serial phenomena. How I got interested into the subject matter was one morning I was woken either by the smell of my mother cooking breakfast, or
the sound of my father talking in the kitchen pretty loud and excited. Probably both things woke me up. And I got into the kitchen, sat down and I looked at the table and he's talking about some clients that he was a music teacher and he gave lessons at their home. So he went to a client's house and the father and the son were both amateur astronomers. Got to the front door, ring the doorbell. The wife says, going to back there looking at something in the sky. He was like, what's going
on. They go out there and there's some objects flying around that we're doing some pretty interesting maneuvers, and he goes, what are these things? And they handed in binoculars and they go, well, we think they're UFOs, And he goes, what's that? And they walked into the house. They had the magazine and a book and that was on the table. I became immediately engrossed in it, but little today. No. They gave me the adventure of a lifetime, and that was around nineteen sixty three or sixty four.
I gave my first presentation on UFOs. I believe it was nineteen sixty seven. To my seventh grade classmates. Oh wow, so ever since you were a little guy so in fifty nine that event that happened. I mean it sounds like a typical kind of missing time situation. Yes it was. In fact, it frightened me so bad when I came home that night. It was Sunday, and leave it. What was it? Dennis the Menace was on, I believe around eight o'clock, seven o'clock Central on Sundays,
and I came in. I always watched the show, and myma goes, you're gonna watch it. Nope. I went right to bed, jumped in the bed, covered my head up, my cover my head with the blankets. I was just so frightened I couldn't even I just wanted to get about whatever transpired. But that is what took place. I've had a number of sidings thereafter, luckily with other witnesses, which to me. You know, when it comes to a case, if it's just a siding by yourself,
it's a story you have. No, it's very difficult to get to some sort of collaboration. Now if you have multiple people with your at least a witness, and better yet multiple witnesses and independent ones maybe from different vantage points. That adds far more credence credance to it. And then when you have photographs and other bits of evidence and that is evidence, it all builds up and I think then it takes on what may very well be a case,
right right. And I think that's one of the difficult things I found when I was an investigator. It's worth reporting if you have your own sighting as a single individual, but sometimes they get really excited and and they they don't know what they expect out of an investigator, but they want something, and it's it's often difficult when you can say, well, it's great, you know, we recorded it, but unfortunately I don't have any answer as to
what it was, except that it does sound unusual. I think, you know. The other aspect is the repercussion. Many times they if they don't hear that it's something from another planet and that you know, this was the case, this is the smoking gun, they become anything, you know,
anything but cordial. I had one instance, in fact, the individual will move to Arizona in the last few years, and this person was ardented that these photographs that she took were the smoking gun, and they were anything but but they did have some interesting characteristics that shared similarities to other photographs of known cases, and that in itself, I think is important to find the care touristics and photographs and various forms of evidence and let the evidence and the characteristics
speak for themselves. And it could and it probably was a smoking gun for her in that those events are life changing for an individual. Yes, And I think people then very quickly understand the frustration for people who investigate this with some of the incredible trying to communicate the incredible evidence that is out there to people who are skeptical or not sure and just not getting the same reaction from
others when it's something you feel is extraordinary. Sure, and the thing is to be there and be in person, be in the person's shoe, and to experience it. The other thing is to experience with the same ken. Now, if they have you understand there, well, I always say, you know that if you walk in their moccasins, will walk in their moccasins. You'd have to know their culture, You'd have to know their education.
They're a physical composition, their life's experience. Also their sensorial ability to feel too, sense and to analyze the information coming into their brain. So the thing is, you can't you know, reality is a personal, a personal experience. We all share our own little realities. Of course, there are some common ground, but it's not as common as we think. Same thing with color. We're not sure if color is perceived exactly the same by each
and every one of us. We know the wavelengths, you know from sensory information, you know instrumentation. But the bottom line is we have our own realities and if it's extraordinary to some person may be very ordinary to me. That's where I think the term in terms of not terminology that we use, say extraterrestrial versus alien, This is where we really need to sort out terms and be far more analytical use of them. Right, Yeah, that causes
a lot of issues. But I wanted to also ask about getting back to the fifty nine experience. Have you ever explored it to try to figure out what had happened to you during that time? Well, what had happened thereafter, I think may have given some light to some of the episodes that transpired or that initial episode what had happened was would be commonly referred to as visitations
of some sort. And I've never talked about this, but I think I could talk to you about it, and more than happy to The beings or whatever you want to call them, would be classified today, I guess much like grays that I had seen thereafter. So, in other words, after this instances incident, there was visitations by what we referred to graves, and I referred to them as looking like cooties. There was a little plastic composite toy like. I think it was the same company that made it. May
have been Bettel, the mister potato head that made this cooty thing. It looked like an insect. Yeah that nah, Yeah, I don't remember the cot Yeah, it shows our age, buddy. Well, the cootie thing is what it reminded me of. And I remember talking to Darryl Simms. We were having a conversation one time and I says, you know, these things reminded me of cooties. Whatever these things. He goes, and he goes, and he stopped, and he goes. I don't believe you said
that. He goes. You know, I've had a few people tell me exactly the same thing, And of course we're all in the same age group, so it makes sense we all kne would they were talking about. Well, that's the only thing I could say. It reminded me of my mother, as I told her in the morning, I says, you know this thing and there was a name to them that I recall. There was a name, an eye for the life and you can't remember, but I think it had an R or something. I don't know if it was it or
them or whatever. Again, this is a child having these experiences and trying to put it into some context today. I know they were real to me. Did they actually happen? I'm thinking they did. Can I again proved me on a reasonable doubt. No, some strange things did take place physiologically to me, and maybe they did. I don't know, but I'd hate to think I was crazy as a little kid. And my mother, you know, maybe now after all the crap we've been through, right, But
my mom she says, well, that's your imaginary friend. And I have no idea what imaginary meant. And then I mentioned it to a few people and they laughed at me. And when I found out what imaginary meant, I was really upset up my mom for a while. Oh really, yeah, because this wasn't imaginary to me, this was genuine. It took place, and I recalled a feeling of going over, say, for instance, the grass, to smell the dew the grass freshly got, and something about
the sensation of cold plaster on the walls too. It was like being de materialized. So if these things are genuine, I don't know. I would like to think. You know, again, this where it comes to looking back on an event or series of events in your life, how many years later, Well, I this was the interpretation. I came too far before even becoming engrossed into anything related to abduction slash encounters. Now, this is kind of a funny question, just because I always think about, you know
some people, and I think you're one of those people. I'm one of those people. You have this compulsion, you know, to get involved with this topic and the subject. Do you feel do you ever kind of speculate that perhaps that experience that you had was somehow something prodding you and shaping your future and your involvement in this field in particular. I think so. But I think even prior to that, what I always found interesting is anything dealing
with legends and lures. I would sit at the table, you know how it is with a a big family. M hm. Your uncles would come over and sit around and tell stories and tell about things that would just be on the brink of something that we would call either preter natural or paranormal. And this would be commonplace in the discussion at the table with uncles and relatives and stuff like that. They would talk about these things. They weren't afraid
to and I always found that so interesting. And these people were pillars of the community, a lot of fun, and yet they talked about this stuff openly, and I found that interesting. So at a very young age, I found it interesting. So my experience with unusual stuff, paranormal preternatural probably began pretty young, or being i should say, being exposed to that possibility of other realms of forms of reality, something well beyond our ken and accepting
it as being a possibility. Yeah. Well, and that's always how full it probably shades, you know, your view and your fear of getting into this when you see mentors and people you respect being open about it. Whereas I'm sure a lot of people don't have that experience. Well, I know of a lot of people who whose family and people they respect, you know, do not feel so positive about these sort of things. Oh sure, especially to religious implications. In my family was you know, a very devout
to this day, the very religious Catholic family. I went to a seminary and but by myself I have I have a deep belief again, you know, a whole belief is being accept as on on as being true or possibly true without evidence, and that that there's far more going on here than what we could describe or explain by science and the concept of a god or gods or other realms of a hierarchy of intelligence. I think that's a given to me. Now can I prove it? And you know as far as above
the unreasonable doubt and it's court of law. Now, science doesn't demand that, it's we're looking for hypotheses and theories. I think our very existence is testament to something pretty interesting. Now. The problem when it comes to youuthology. A lot of people I deal with a lot of people in our group out here that we have a compositive people that are from a very conservative religious people who are adamant against the exraterrestrial hypotheses, to skeptics that are you know,
basically I embrace everybody if this is a human experience. It's all about us, and I think they respect it. And the only thing is I asked that they respect each other when we get together and we explore this phenomena, you know, collectively and be open about it. And and that, boy, I tell you that could be challenging at times, right, Try to control a group like that when you're trying to have a presentation. Boy, oh boy, it's like a circus, right, yeah, And I'm
sure some people have felt that. And I think that these are experiences, why, you know, just coming out of the holidays. A lot of people avoid these sort of topics when it comes to family gatherings. Oh sure, sure, yeah, I think that, you know, family gatherings. I know Dolan, he talks about his experiences, you know, mentioning things with his family and how difficult it was. And I think that's that way for everybody. When my family gets together, nobody brings the subject up.
Nobody, in fact, rarely do I bring it up. So it's like the plague, right, I wish the uncles were around me, But I had a good time, Yeah, exactly, sounds like those were good times. They were, they were the best. So when you started investigating, were there some cases or that you came across early on that were really shocking to you, or something when you began investigating that you came across that you
felt was maybe different than you had felt things were well. Researching and investigating, you know, the investigative researcher versus just the researcher and doing field investigations are like different modes of operations. Here, I was just reading and I was very curious about the subject, and at parties if the subject ever came up or at gatherings, I would listen to people and then I would ask
people who have had their inexperiences to give me more information. Then eventually I'd be old enough to go out seeking people once they were in the news, say, for instance, Lamont sighting out in the eighties in Lamont, making it a point to talk to people who had actually seen There were some police officers that had seen these objects in the sky, and that was a very well noted case. It was one of the first Moufon cases where I came
in contact with Mofon investigators. And then in nineteen ninety seven where I really took an interest was coming home from doing our radio show on Sunday up north and miles away and driving along and here I had the radio on and they were talking about a sighting a new Lenox and a pilot a private aircraft, a private airplane pilot seeing this object in addition to many people. And this was a mass sighting in nineteen ninety seven during the Thanksgiving weekend. So they
mentioned the name of the man's business. He had a coffee shop. So I went there immediately talked to the guy, started asking questions. Next day I went and I got some aerial maps from the county, started laying things out. Then ran into Billioni, who was the assistant state director here in Illinois, and Sumarowski was a film investigator, and I gave them the maps and the information I drew out on there and started to help them assemble the
data. It was the first time I started to work with Moufon. I wasn't a member at that point. It became a member, I believe three years later, but I was still working on a number of cases. First case I ever worked on with in Moufon was a black orb and I think you may have remembered this case. It was a black orb that hovered over a street in Downers Grove near a corporate complex. Of it was a corporate set of buildings and it was above a parking lot next to a parking lot,
a two tier of three story parking lot. And fourteen witnesses seeing this orb, this black orb appear there and it had a brilliant light neon blue light or illumination around the periphery and then from the bottom it had a golden aura on the very bottom. They watched this object. They weren't there. They looked at it and it had a translucent effect to it. There were multiple witnesses, fourteen witnesses. One of them had to seek psychiatric help.
This object lifted up and shot off southwest where it went to adjoin a large black triangular craft sitting in the sky. It moved around the craft, I think he said three times, and there was another black orb coming in from another direction. The two of them ascended into the craft from the bottom, and then theft self took off the south south southwest. So that was one of the first cases I worked on. And the black orbs obviously have been
seen many times. Black orange, I've seen orange orbs. The orange orb sighting was in May of two thousand and three, which was a precursor, of course to the Tinley Park siding of two thousand and four, but in the general vicinity, and when we were investigating the first night of the sighting in two thousand of two thousand and four August twenty first we had people come out talking about their sighting in May of the year prior that I, myself and my wife had seen. So it was nice to add a layer of
more witnesses and credence to the very event that I personally experienced. What time of day was a black orbs scene? That black orbs was seen in the evening, and there was a cleaning crew in actually three of the buildings secure.
The secure guard went out, walked up and was on the top I think it was three stories high, two or three stories high the parking garage was staring directly into the object which was over the the street a little bit into the forest preserve and near the near a hospital too, and it moved further south toward the hospital, came back and then I was, like I had mentioned, ascended into the sky. It was soon soon thereafter there was
apache helicopters in the area. The UH the guard after after giving his report to us, was moved to a different location and basically given this chastise for it, because he also gave me the entry to the building. Uh. And the building did receive damage, and the damage was very unique, UH, and that it was caused the insurance evaluation or the person coming out doing
the evaluation for the damage said it was caused by some ultrasonic vibration. So something happened on the inside, a physical reaction in a physical trace to the case. And we have no way of getting that information. And I was very interested in the building itself because it housed a facility for a satellite company. Oh. Interesting, getting back to you, just because those are interesting cases, could you give us like a little synopsis of what happened like at
the Lamonk case, what was seen by who win? There were a few police officers, Actually was a couple of witnesses, a couple of police officers seeing bright light coming in, multiple lights coming in as a right call. And it was over Route eighty three and in the poorer area, also in the area of Fermi Laboratory and not FIRMI excuse me, Argon National Laboratory of course, which was one of the first or if not the first cyclotron,
and this object came in it clearly wasn't a helicopter or anything else. They reported police officer officers were very forthcoming and giving the information. And there were other people at the refinery who had actually seen the same There's many refineries in the area there and they seen the same objects illuminations, and this wasn't the first time for their sightings. It seemed as though there has been multiple sightings
in that community. It seems to be a magnet for such aerial phenomenas in as much the same way as some of the nuclear power plants. And then at the Lennox, the pilot you spoke to, what did he tell you? What did he see? Well, he was all he took. What happened was his sighting was one of those. In fact, his reaction thereafter almost looked like a text bookcase of post traumatic express disorder. Him and his girlfriend at the time. And this guy just got overly hyperactive about this whole
scenario. He really got into a big he grabbed every book imaginal fact. I brought him some books and he just went very deep into investigating it himself, which is good to get people proactive into their very own case and start
to find other witnesses to come forward. He met a gentleman who said that the object landed in his backyard, or at least hobbard in his backyard, i should say, And he described it as being a self luminous cluster of what looked like a cluster of grapes, multiple orbs that were you'd have to look at it almost outside of you know, not a direct glance, but a little bit off kilter to really get a good look at it. And
that's commonplace. I hear that so many times when these crafts last objects are in a state of flux or self illuminous, that they are more to see what's actually going on inside that past the illumination, to look at an angle or on the periphery of your vision and you're able to see it. Another case, not far from there, it took place in the eighties where a
large cylindrical object was hovering over a gentleman's house. He was a area of businessmen who has taking his son home from a farm what you call that four h club meeting, and they walked into their huge yard and there's this. They get out of the garage and there's this massive, self illuminous object up there and it so this thing was monstrous, sitting directly over the house and and he says, all I had to do is turn my head a little
bit and you could see all the distinct characteristics of the object. And again this case came to me while investigating the case, the Tinley Park case. I had so many historical cases come in. You couldn't believe. Anytime you work on a case that big, that gets so much publicity, airplay, etc. And media attention, you're going to get other people coming forward who are not afraid, who probably built up enough courage to come forward and start
talking about their case. Same thing with them. During that siding or during that period of time, there were multi police officer sidings and those are very good sightings. And so these things take place and people start coming out of the woodworks or closet whatever, the euthological closets that they're stuck up in and afraid of it because of ridicule. But this is the type of stuff that
took place. But getting back to that gentleman, he says this, This gentleman said he saw multiple orbs clustered together like grapes, and they were behind, of course, a very self illuminous field of illumination, and to me, I think that's in a state of flux, you know, when it comes to what's actually going on there. Mm hmm, so really interesting sightings.
And I guess getting back to my question and asking it in a more accurate way, because you make a good point there's a difference between research and investigation. But since you do investigation, you know some field work, which not a lot of people do, but I had. It was very interesting going from researcher to investigator for me because there was just things that I found talking to witnesses. It's just a different sort of I guess you get to
share in the excitement of the experience a lot more. Or that way is that what you had found? What do you think is an important of actual filled work. I think the important thing and the difference between just research and doing investigative research is the filter. We all use filters of some sort when we gather data. Some data may be deleted, some may be overly emphasized.
Even the manner in which we sort it or assemble it is a way of possibly even filtering or let's say, censoring, and that's what we have to really watch when it comes to that. For a research needs to watch to, you know, when they're getting that information. You maybe want to get a little more detail on the process of how it was assembled. Was there any other information that you felt may have been just too bizarre, too unusual, that you didn't put into report? And how many times that the
case? That is the case because you hear some things that people to say, Wow, you know, I don't know if I should tell you this, but this is what happening. I'll both forget about that. But it may be a crucial part a point in fact, I think Chaquallet brought that up a number of times. The other thing is dealing with a witness. Some of the best aspects of a case may take years to get that information out. It's a matter of gaining comfort. I don't know if it's trust.
Some more it's comfort and knowing that they're not going to be laughed at by you, or you could be entrusted with the fact that you may keep that information close to your vest and not divulge it, especially when in cases of where people want to remain anonymous. So many a time you get over a period of time, you get this information leaking out of the people.
And then the other thing is you can see quirks and characteristics of their own personal traits that may be a way of the manner which they interpret stuff. You get a better idea maybe how they look at things, and you may want to re examine the information they gave you and requestion it, question them again. So I think the difference between the research and the field the investigative researcher is of course getting as close as possible to the information, if not
the event itself. Yeah, you know that. It's a good point too that you bring up with the creating a space that's comfortable for them, Yes, and how important that is. A lot of times people are very guarded and once they feel that comfort, it's like a release and it's almost like a little bit of social work that you do when you're going out and visiting these people, because they feel so relieved and happy to finally be able to
comfortably talk with someone about that stuff. That is so true. This year in August, we went down to Quincy, of course, which was the place that MoveOn started. That was the birthplace of MoveOn was in Quincy. Yes, and Walt was the plant manager there or assistant plant manager of Motorola, and I was asked to come down there and give a presentation at the library, and I was on local television, in the news, etc. They were very cordial, very nice, but people showed up for the first
time to talk about their events. Had a man up there crying, crying. He says, he looked at me and he says, am, you have no idea how important this is for my whole family. And the wife is sitting there shaking her head. To come out, to be able to come out in front of other people and share this experience for the first time,
he says, this has just done me volumes of good. And other people came out and said thank you for having him, you know, to coaxing him, to comfortably coaxing him up there and to just tell his account. And the funny thing was another person came forward who he knew, who was a distant relative to his wife and had similar experiences, and he never even knew that, and he was there telling the story too, on opposite sides of the room, and it all came together. It was just like
wow, an epiphany, you know, it was deep. So again, I think the most important thing is not so much the phenomenon itself. It's us who we are, what we are, and why we are, and if we had any clue about this, this information be just incidental and it highlights I think that's where you really learn, like what you talked about at the beginning, where this is kind of a shared experience, how we're definitely in it together type of thing. Oh sure, And that's what it really
boils down to. It's the human factor, and that's I stay stayed with it for all this long. It's about the people and about our commonality and the reason and trying to find out what the heck we are, why we are, And I think that's that's the greater adventure. And I think the phenomenon itself is helping us maybe get a better understanding, if not understanding,
a comfort and getting a grip on what we are. So I met you, I think in around two thousand and four at the Moufar Symposium where you did a presentation on the Tinley Park sightings, and I think you mentioned you remember and I totally forgot this. You still have my laser pointer? Yes I do. I thank you for that, but maybe you could share that case, how how it started and what that case was all about actually got
together in two thousand and seven. It was the Tinley Park case I talked about, and what was the real interesting case that everybody was interested about was, of course the O'Hare case, and I was able to work with Richard
Haynes and oh gosh, there's tons of folks on that case. But the Timley Park case, and this is one of the best documented and hopefully I'll be able to put this together before I die, you know, it's one of these cases that I've I think deserves to come out in the right light, in other words, with all the information together done properly, assembled, properly, not just thrown out. Because it's a story and it's a very
good mass sighting. We have unlike so many other mass sightings, we have the privilege here of having a cross section of the demographic of the community. We have also a volume of photographic evidence and video evidence that we can correlate
and pinpoint locations, do triangulations. And also what's interesting about it is to get moments in time very exact and therefore get a three dimensional or a multi dimensional aspect to the footage itself and what's being perceived by the witnesses that may be a little bit different than what's actually being recorded on the footage. Another interesting thing about the case, and this is something that's really new and I hope I get a chance to bring forward, is that there was an arcing
motion in the craft itself. It arc if you had to take your thumb and index and a little finger, place your thumb perfectly, still have your finger, your thumb and index finger out ninety degrees, let's say, an arc it all the way around, but keep your thumb still a complete arc.
This is what was seen and recorded on videotape by multiple witnesses. The funny thing is that is the same characteristic that has been recorded and was seen in the January fourth, eight o'clock or so recording by a witness to the renowned case in Southern Illinois, the Millstep Highland Dupo case that, of course Dave Marler talks about the book and you interviewed a great interview by the way with Dave, and this is a characteristic that could show that by the way,
we're dealing with something two points. The other one that is in motion isn't in a free fall because I calculate it out, it's faster than a free fall, and with the January fourth footage is moving at god awful speed. Back to the point that they were making unusual squeals and screeches, they're like, oh, you know, and shock and awe. The bottom line is we're dealing with something that is solid, and the illuminations are at are
at points or on some sort of apex and moving around advertesies. So the thing is we're dealing with something solid, not independent objects, and these are illuminations for whatever the purpose I don't know, on the object itself, and that object's huge. The calculations, in fact, as you recall UFO Hunters, we did episode the two thousand for I think it was two hundred and one for the second season, and it was the first show Invasion Illinois.
Well Ted and those guys did an evaluation. We did evaluation, in fact, we did three evaluations. Rodiger and Kufos did an evaluation in the footage. The calculations, the triangulation, we're dealing with an object well in excess of their calculation was fifteen hundred feet because they based it off the plane going in front of it that thought it was an air a helicopter. The calculation was based off forty feet or so instead of like one hundred and forty feet.
They came up with an object about fifteen art feet long. Our calculations are summers in the range of four thousand feet long. Anyway, you look at it, that's a big object sitting up there. Wow. And how many witnesses were there to the Tinley Kills and what did they see? Well? Most people report Again when you look at the Bell Curve and the Tinley Park case wasn't isolated just Tinley Park. That's where you know, it just got coined. Same thing like with Phoenix. You know here Phoenix, these
objects were seen throughout the state. Same thing here. It was not just seen throughout the state, but seen throughout the world. When I look at the case, I try to go seventy two hours before, trying to get a trying to limit the scope of the investigation, seventy two hours before,
seventy two hours afterwards. So within seventy two hours before, this same pattern of these three illuminations were seen in British Columbia, in New York, Iowa, in fact in Iowa, Des Moines was seeing entirely the object itself, a large Isosceles triangle. Then there were other objects associated with very much like
the very similar to the case the Phoenix mass sighting case. And the object came in on the twenty first, right after the Aaron Water Show downtown Chicago, where three million people had converged on the lakefront to watch this aerial show of you know, military might and all this full acrobbatic aerobatic displays. The Blue Angels were there and everything. So we had all sorts of stuff going on. And then at night this shows up just about when everybody's outside having
their barbecues and block parties, et cetera. And by the way, Ozzy Osbourne was people were coming out of the concert at what was then the Tweeter Center, so we had people converging onto the thoroughfares in the interstate by I eighty and a lot of people were outside. We're talking. This was a near perfect evening. The sky was perfectly clear, not a cloud in the sky, very quiet, unusually quiet during the whole time these illuminations were seen
in the sky. There was absolutely no air traffic, which doesn't take place in one of the most highly trafficked areas in the country. There are thirty two airports nearby, of course, the may Sure hubs being Midway and Midway and Okare and then Gary and Lansing. But there's also heliports et cetera, and medical heliports and private airports. So the thing is there's always air traffic
going on. At any given time. You can look in the sky and within minute see at least a craft, if not multiple, multiple aircraft. Nothing during this episode, Alejandro, not one other object, not one aircraft. This sat there over the community, sat perfectly still at approximately four thousand to six thousand feet, much higher than any so called Chinese lanterns. It sat there for a length of time, just perfectly still in a we had
a little bit of a breeze, and then it took off. In some instances some people seen it hyperle from one point to another, and then it was seen in Ohio the next day tech and then it was recorded down in Melbourne, Australia on the twenty third of August, which is sixteen hours ahead of us. So this is a very commonplace object. The large Isosceles triangles now, I don't know if you've seen this footage from California yet, I have yet to see it. I don't know if that's just Chinese lanterns or
what. But I have seen other footage that seems to be very similar to what has been recorded here in Tiley Park. Yeah, great sighting. And then of course I wanted to get to O'Hare, which is another, I mean, incredible situation. I think that really captured people's interest because it really was. The Chicago Tribune had picked it up, and then a very extensive investigation really came to no conclusions. In fact, they found what we found, which was a lot of run around by officials WI, the FA,
TRUE and United Airlines. So maybe you could talk about that case. What did you guys? Were you able to talk to some of the witnesses. Yes, I was able to talk to three witnesses. Fourteen came forward, and I just spoke to somebody just what was it last week? Who worked for another airlines and ran into some more people who had also seen the sighting over Gate C seventeen. But you know, the funny thing is about the case, more people are coming forward. I think it takes time. It
takes if they retire at chure helps. Many of these people were just pulled aside, reminded that, hey, by the way, you don't have a perfect employment record, A nice way to you know, put a little fear of being unemployed, you know. And it was a degree of the rest going on. The Other thing is when it came to the airline itself, it just came out of bankruptcy. I think that February, and it was
at that point the largest bankruptcy I don't. I mean from just from an economic point of view, I guess they didn't want to be known as the out of this truly out of this world airlines, you know, So maybe from a marketing point of view, they probably just stood back on this and took a conservative and cautionary position. But of course, what they the first thing I want to do is they want to dismiss it as being lenticular clouds. And as you and I know, we had a ceiling. Oh gosh,
I forgot how thick it was was hot. It was thousands of feet thick that day, and we had barely a breeze. I think the maximum breeze during that period of time was five miles an hour, and it was around four twenty in the afternoon, you know, towards the evening, barely dusk. And then they're saying, oh, no, it's a lenticular cloud below the ceiling. No, no, it was, and it was some
fore hundred feet or so below the the ceiling of cloud. The object I think was seventy seventy five to possibly even one hundred and twenty feet in diameter. Wow, it was much bigger than I think some of the people initially thought it was. And then of course photographs, photographs were taken, video was taken, those cameras, those security cameras. If the film was absconded with, we don't have any of this stuff. The only pictures that came
forward the ones that you saw. Of course, Mark Ellen from above Top Secret pointed out the one witness you know came forward, and well, he actually didn't come forward. They submitted it anonymously. And as you and I know, if we get something and that you know, and that you know, as far as chain of evidence, we don't know what type of camera, we don't know, we can't evaluate it. So it's just an illustration.
But that seemed to be pretty legit. That seemed to be the object that was that was there and shooting directly through the clouds instantaneously and leaving a gaping hall. Wow. You know, that does take some pretty interesting physics to first of all, accelerate from stand stiff like that, secondly displaced that
much amidity. So were you able to speak with John Hilkovich? The Chicago Times reporter who was who wrote about this at least spoke to John once, And I actually I was hoping to get together with him, as you know, Paula Harris put together this event for me what is it to me? Third through the fifth up here, and We're going to have quite a few speakers and I'll be talking about this case. But I'd like to say if
they get John out to at least address some of this. Unfortunately, you know, getting calls back and whatever from him, it's it's a different thing, you know, it's a different, different world, as you know. Yeah, in fact, you're the first person I know of who's even talked to him, because I know a lot of people have tried to get a hold of him, but including documentary filmmakers, TV shows things like that, but nobody can. Our discussion was pretty short, my friend, I can
tell you that much. Yeah, we were supposed to get together, and my in between was another gentleman on setting this up. And I didn't want to do it at the Tribune, and I didn't want to go to the tribument. That's some real I don't know if you've ever been to the Tribune building. My god, it's a massive thing. I was there once before and did an interview and it was intimidating. I could tell you it's just massive, intimidating and wow, it was just strange. But Hilkevich is a
damn good righte. I'm happy he wrote the piece. It would have never came to light. But you know what the funny thing is, you ask people today if they recall that, just to show you the mindset of being overwhelmed with too much information, many people have entirely forgotten that account entirely. And that's how it is, I think across the board with so many of
the cases recently, what came to mind was nineteen ninety seven. All the events took place in nineteen ninety seven, you know, the phoenix sighting on March thirteenth, but then it was just a few days later that we had this mass suicide that basically blanketed the news and gave Uphology a black eye. Why don't know, but that was the Heaven's Gate scenario, as you recall, and that was just a few days later. Did you know that? Wow? Yeah, I guess I hadn't realized that. Yeah. Year nineteen
ninety seven was pivocal for a lot of reasons. We had the Lawrence Rockefeller Foundation, you know, coming out with that research, and then we had another book by the Army try and explain away the bodies from Roswell, et cetera, et cetera. There was a lot of things going on, and it's amazing how these unusual events come in to just take control of the mindset on the subject matter. Right, So I want to ask you one last question since we're running out of time. But I did do this story recently.
I took all of the sighting data that I have available to me from the mouf On files to put together kind of how many sightings were seen, where to look for hotspots and stuff like that. And one of the interesting things was August was there was pretty much a spike in in August, and from looking at Illinois, we do have. Actually you had most of your sightings in July, twenty seven sightings reported and then twenty five reported in August.
What do you think, why do you think that is Chinese lanterns? Yeah, you know, Chinese lanterns. I've picked up so many Chinese lanterns. I had one just a few feet from where I'm sitting right now. Oh oh yeah, I've plucked them out of farm fields, I've you know, roads, et cetera. There's been an upswing in people using these Chinese lanterns. In fact, what we did here in Illinois we set up a triage headed by a gentleman from dan Snow from Michigan. As you know,
Illinois move on. We have members come in from all over from eleven states, come in for our meetings and stuff. So you know, if people want to help us, and you know what cases we need people. So this guy's been handling the triage, evaluating them and we have a format to go by to basically see if there's any validity to it. But then again, the orange orbs, I've seen them. These things are unlike Chinese lanterns, which I am very intimately aware of. I know that what they look
like what they can do. I know, how high they can fly. They're luminescence, on and on and on and on. There are distinct characteristics to them to flares to any sort of pretty much known thing up there that
they try hoaxers try to put up. The other thing is drones. We have a lot of drone activity, so we see a good amount of drones and this is what goes on. But during a line of two thousand and three, there was a large triangular UFO scene and it was seen by multiple witnesses and it was the large Isosceles and here it was on July the third of two thousand and three. So to basically whitewash everything as being just a hoaxes, no. But the other thing is it takes a long time to
go through that data. In fact, I think we haven't even closed out July on the cases because it's just going to take a lot of work to put it together methodically. And it warrants it, you know, I think it warrants it. Yeah, that's the hard part with technology. And you know, there are so many of these Chinese lanterns that any reports of red or orange balls get kind of disregarded or blown off more so, and I find myself doing that. And now with LEDs on remote control planes and drones
and the quad copters, it's almost like the modern world. There's all kinds of things flying around with lights, and it makes it then more difficult to pay attention to to light flying around in the night sky. Again, the need to do proactive work with the qualified individuals setting up locations and hotspots and just gather the data ourselves. That's right. Well, thank you so much
for being on the show. It was a lot of fun, and I'm sure that we'll have you on again soon and I'm hopefully we'll run into each other again soon at one of these conferences. It'd be great to make it out there for hear you guys talk about Chicago Hair, because that's an amazing case that shouldn't be forgotten. It's one of the ones for the record books, I think. But your website for Illinois move On is just my move on my MoveOn dot com where people can go see more. Well, thank
you so much, and I hope to see you in February. Yeah, so are you going to make it out. I'm going to try to. I'm working on a case that I think is called a game changer, uh huh. And I've been working on there for a couple of years and if I could finish it, I would like to de view that either the press release or something, so we'll have maybe next year. We'll talk about that, okay, but either way, I'd like to talk to you in person.
Yeah, definitely, that'd be great. And always willing to help out. It's always great to work with you. And thanks so much for being on the show. Thank you, my friend. Thank you so much to Sam Moronto for coming on the show. Really cool guy, really interesting fella, a lot of cool stuff to talk about. And the Illinois move On the you are healthfa lot for it is not as intuitive as some of the
others. It's my move on, so mymoveon dot com. If you're in the Chicago area and you're freezing to death, hopefully your internet still works and you can go on to my move on and check out what's going on in your area. They have a lots lots of stuff going on. They do little conferences and things like that on a regular basis. Sam is a really cool guy, so you definitely want to meet him and go check out the local move on out there in Illinois. So that's my MoveOn dot com.
So thanks again to Sam for being on the show. As we talked about earlier, the UFO Congress is coming up super quick here. It's only in a few weeks February twelfth to the sixteenth, So if you're still thinking about it or still trying to get things together, you know, a register for that as soon as possible. We've got a lot of people, lots of hustle and bustle going around so and to remind you, you know, we
talked about Timothy Good a little earlier. But of course everybody's a fan the coast to coast am and I'm sure we all try to listen to that if we can stay up or listen to the recordings of their archives. But George Nori, we'll be at the conference. Aaron Sager's a new good buddy who talked about uf and pop culture. You probably read about him. He's now blogging for the Huffington Post. He's all over the place talking about the paranormal
and paranormal TV shows and stuff. Really excited about Jeffrey Bennett, who's an astrophysicist. We have a whole science section that's going to be just super cool. So we have Jeffrey Bennett. I've heard him speak and he's really incredible. Of course he's a mainstream scientist, but really open to stuff and has
some really interesting instrikes when it comes to extraterrestrial intelligence. Richard Hoover a NASA scientist who says we already have evidence of extraterrestrial life and he's going to talk about all of that evidence. Robert Schroeder talking about possibilities when it comes to UFO propulsions, so really interesting science. And then we've heard from David Marler
recently about triangular UFOs in his book. We've got crop circles, we have bigfoot, we have abduction, and we have Hime mussan O. And I do want to talk about this one again because this is pretty unique. This is definitely a unique experience and opportunity. But we have Glenn Steckling who runs the Adamski Foundation. So some of you might know about Georgia Damski who was
a contact ee. He had videos and photos of UFOs and all of those are owned by the Adamski Foundation. So it's more and more increasingly difficult to as people you know forget about the case, to find these pictures and videos and the evidence around the Adamski case, which is of course very controversial because he says he was on craft, he talked to aliens and stuff like that,
but it's very very interesting too. So this is going to be a unique opportunity to see some of that video and see some of those pictures and hear from someone who's investigated that case, and he'll be there. He'll have a table and you'll be able to talk to him at the conference. So we've got a lot of cool stuff. You know, check out ufocongress dot com register and look at this speak and check that out. That's what we're
doing. We're busy, busy, busy with that. Also, of course, for more UFO news, you can go to our YouTube site and we have spacing out with Maureen and Jason that's done every other week. And then of course you can always visit Openminds dot tv, where we're writing about the UFO news on a consistent basis. Every day we're getting stories up. Busy, busy busy. We're tweeting those, we're facebooking those, so we're keeping you all informed and you know, not to toot our own harm. Well,
I guess it is exactly to tuot our own horn. But really, I think we're the best UFO news outlet out there right now in that we're working hard every day to get you all the information out there on what's going on. So check out Openminds dot tv. Come to the UFO Congress and meet us. I'll say I'll give you a hug. If you come up and say, yo, all one hundred I need a hug, I'm gonna give you a hug. Maybe you'll get lucky and you'll get a hug from
Jason too bad. Least he'll give you a handshake. He said it here on the show, So check it out. Also check us out next week we'll have another exciting show. Thank you all so much for listening, and thank you for the people who do the music, that is Caleb Hanks for the opening music and two Earth Minutes for the clothes. You all have a wonderful week. Stay warm if you're out there in the cool dairy regions this week. Adios, smootatos us s M