Hello, and welcome to Open Mind GUFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin Jetster Willis Yo jet Cter. I love it. Yeah, I've used that before. I think I don't think so, not now, jets ceter. I think it's something similar but not quite that. I think this is a new one. And the reason I go ahead, you know you no, no, no, it's okay. The reason I say it is because, yeah, you wouldn't be able to tell it from how you sound, but you're actually thousands and thousands of
miles away, and you're in Russia right now. I was on the dark side of the Moon earlier today, but yes I'm in Russia. Yeah. Well that brings up something interesting, which is that, did you know China very soon here is going to send a lander to the Moon, the dark side of the moon. It'll be the first time any space agency has landed something on the dark side of the Moon. They're going to bring like ever Ready flashlights with them or something probably I don't know about ever Ready, but
some sort of lighting device. I'm sure. Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder why they wanted to do that. I means it must be very cold. First of all, of course, I mean that's probably a really dumb thing for me to say, but it's uh but I mean, what do you do. You have to look at it with lighting, right, I mean, what else can you do? No, it is other types of studies. Oh yeah, because what they're looking for because this new space race. There is now a new space race, and it's to get to the
Moon. So we are competing with Russia and China to essentially claim the moon. The race to claim the moon, so like that in the twenty thirties, China and Russia are committed to putting boots on the ground. And that's why are we have this new refocus to go back to the moon, because we can't let them beat us. And you know, and we probably will beat them because we've just got really good technology. But that will be an important part is to explore. In fact, we're going to send a probe
to look at the dark side of the Moon from space. It'll be you know, something that will orbit a satellite because to know what minerals and stuff are there. They just discovered waters there, right, which is helpful because then we'll be able to use it. That's very new right, wasn't that just recently? Yeah, they suspected this ice at the Polar caps was water, but they just confirmed that it is water and like the last week.
And of course that's important because if humans are there, then they can use that water to survive, and you could use it for other things. You can break it down into the hydrogen and the oxygen for breathable air and then for also propellant and for energy. So it's it's a really important thing. So yeah, so it's really cool. Now was it what was it? It was something three, not helium three, But yeah, I know what you mean that they're playing on because there's a lot of energy in it.
Yeah, it's like plutinium three, titanium three. I can't remember, you know, some of the listeners are probably going to remember, but I know what you mean. It is a mineral, maybe helium three. It is helium three. Yeah, and that is supposed to contain a lot of energy. So yeah, that may be something. But there has been some debate I've seen on that on whether or not, you know, that's actually important
or possible. But yeah, there's a number of things. I mean, space mining is like an industry that is really starting to gain momentum, and it's kind of a behind the scenes thing. So we have a probe the Osiris X. In fact, it's gonna that's gonna you know, just got a picture of the the asteroid that it's going to land on here soon.
And all of this exploration is about, you know, mining, which a lot of there are companies who have done random numbers and it was a big story not too long ago that there is money to be made, even though it's extremely expensive to get out there, there's money to be made in space mining. So all of this is going down. Man, We're going to be have people in space spaces on the Moon and the Mars. We're going to have mining. All of this is going to happen in the next twenty
years. It's crazy, you know. The thing, the thing about the mining and like to say, there, I forget what they were saying. Maybe platinum on one of the asteroids and possibly diamonds and things like that. The one thing that makes the things that we hold as valuable rare is is because they're rare. And like if you all of a sudden had I mean all the goal that's ever been mined is something like the size of an Olympic
swimming pool. It's not as much such as you would think, but all of a sudden, if we had that in excess, then the values would have to drop because but it's hard to get to I don't know, you know, and that's a hard thing. We never know for sure. There's so many unknowns. But you have a great point. If if it's more in abundance, won't the price is dropped. So for instance, there's supposedly, I think a planet they found that it's got tons of diamonds, right,
that's what I heard. So yeah, if we go to this planet and all of a sudden you can just grab diamonds off the ground and you know, and it's more accessible, you're probably right. There would be an effect that way. But then again, you know, I don't know, there will be more people. Uh, maybe we'll be spread out across you know, colonies on several planets or space station. Who knows. It's really interesting. I know you can theorize all kinds of things. Mm hmm.
Who's your guests this time? In fact? One more space story, okay, and then we'll get into that bigelow. So this is interesting. So I was just talking about a probe in the Moon. In our race to get to the Moon. They are taking contracts because part of the mandate for this this moon race, and NASA is calling it Moon to Mars because first we go to the Moon and then that's a stepping stone to Mars. Astronauts like Scott Kelly say, that's ridiculous that just you know, takes more time
and effort if we go straight to Mars. But because China and Russia are going, there's this race to go to Mars, and so part of that is a space station called the Gateway, a small space station. There are about a dozen companies that are in the running that NASA is working with to create this space station, and Bigelow Aerospace is one of those. So Lucky Martin just made a lot of news in the last week because they put out
their design for this space station, which I think looks lame. It looks tiny, and it looks like all of the old stuff we've seen over the years. So I was not impressed whatsoever, But at least initial ideas that bige Low has put out because they can inflate these big habitats that their whatever their plan will be likely will be much more spacious than this Lackheed plan, so they probably have a really good shot and maybe having being the people to
have this first space station around the Moon. That's a great idea. You know, you can see that they could probably collaborate and you know with Bigelow with his inflatable units. You know, it just seems like it would seem like instead of I know, how they have to do a government contract. You know, it's all about bids and all that, but it just seems like, you know, Bigelow has that great idea with the inflatable m H and you know, it seems like it could kind of work with other ideas
as well, so that would be kind of interesting. You him, the first space station around the Moon is built by an alien hunter essentially, that's right, UFO alien Hunter. Okay, so you asked me who my guest was. It is Ryan Sprague. And you know what's interesting is that this
is one of those rare times where I haven't done the interview yet. Usually by the time we talk like this on Monday morning before I you know, get there or Monday afternoon getting the show ready for kg R for tonight, I usually have interviewed the guest, but I haven't because Ryan's had a lot of stuff going on. And I'm going to interview him later, but we plan on talking about I want to talk about some topics and try to get out of him what he feels is uh, you know important right now to
this topic. You know, he's a younger guy, and he does a lot of stuff in this field, so I love getting people's perspectives. Uh. And and I haven't talked to him in a while, and no doubt, you know, quite a bit of our conversation or some of our conversation will be about to this stars and this Adam Project, because I know he just did a show recently on the Adam Project. So I want to kind of get the pulse of how he and some of the people he's talked to
phil about you know, all of this. Yeah. Yeah, Ryan's a good guy. He's now he's out in La the LA area. Yeah. Yeah, he's out in LA which I'm happy for him because I love that, you know, the beaches in that area. So yeah, we can kind of ask how that's going too. Yeah. Better than New York winters, that's for sure. Ooh, Chilli Chilli, I couldn't take that, right. No, Well, speaking of which, oh too bad you won't
be there. But in about three weeks, our good buddy Lee Spiegel, who lives in the New York area, is going to be at the Devil's Tower UFO of them UFO Rendezvous. I'll be there, David Marler will be there, Mark D'Antonio, Chris O'Brien, Richard Beck with my lovely girlfriend Karen actually will be doing a debut, her first talk ever. She's going to be talking about mass UFO cases like abductions and where there's several people are alleged,
so that's going to be really interesting. So yeah, so that'll be a lot of fun. So if anybody is free, and then you know, it's September thirteenth through the fifteenth. It's freaking beautiful out there, and the mountain is amazing of course. Mm so that's where, yeah, that's where the close and kinds of the third kind ended. It's the show right there, right right, and that's what that was about. M m. Yeah, And did you did something last year on that, right? Yeah?
I was there last year as well, and it was a lot of fun, gorgeous out there, and yeah, so he's doing the people who ran it last time are doing it again and it's going to be a lot of fun. So just google Devil's toewur ufo rendezvous. If you can't spell rendezvous, I don't blame you because the last half of the word is weird uf you put Yeah, boots, if you just put it's almost like a Russian word. But if you just put ufo Devil's towry, you'll you'll run
across it. Yeah, all right, do you want me to go with h the news? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Okay. So this this was on the you know, and we can talk about this a little bit. You mentioned as we were chit chatting ahead of the show that it's hard to find you know, things about UFOs right now on Google, and I did have quite a time searching. I have no idea what that's about. But you mentioned that you were contacted by someone and they
mentioned the same thing, right, Yeah, I it was. I hadn't really looked for any news this morning, but first thing, I got to my desk and Jason McClellan had sent me a message. He's like, hey man, you know, he's like it looks like Google did something. You can't search in the news function for UFO store. So I tried it, and sure enough, he's right. It seems like maybe they shut it down
a few days ago. And because if you try to do it, you only get like, for instance, I looked for the last week and it showed me only you know, a couple stories from days ago. So I don't know what the heck's going on. It's definitely a government thing. It's going to be much more difficult to figure out what the heck you know, get stories if this is the case. Well, I stumbled on this story. This came on a couple of days ago, and I found it on
the Fox News website, so and I wanted to bring it up. I think we talked about it before, but it's recently back in the news. And the title to this is Florida candidate says alien abduction does not define her. So I believe we did speak about this, And so this is a US House candidate Bettina Rodriguez Aguilera. She has it right here. It says, you know, she has a long list of accomplishment accomplishments to bolster her campaign in Florida, but She is perhaps best known for claiming that she was
abducted by space aliens as a child. Why don't they they always add the word space when it comes to aliens. But I understand Rodriguez Aguilera is a long shot in the race for the Miami area seat being vacated by retiring Republican Elena Ross. I can't letian kind of hard word to say there. Yeah, last weekend, the Miami Harold endorsed her for the GOP nomination in Tuesday
primary, out of a field of nine candidates. So in an interview, she said that she's grateful for the endorsement and that her tale of kidnapping by aliens did not define her. Now, the reason I wanted to bring this story up is because I saw a news clip on it, and you know, there was definitely a lot of ridicule. I understand it is. I do understand the reaction to that. It is it is a hard pill to
swallow. You know, a lot of abduction cases are hard. You know, I'm kind of on the fence about but it just goes to show that there's still you know, there's gonna be a lot of ridicule factor in this. You know, in this topic, there are so many people in the United States alone that are saying, you know, something like this is going on with them, and they're very careful not to talk about it in a public setting like this woman did. And obviously it was definitely a mistake for
her career. And I'm sure that you know, her career is very limited just because of this one story, no matter of the good things that she may have done. Yeah, you know, and I do feel for her. I agree in that, you know, there are a lot of I know, I really understand how it's fringe and it's strange and how can people say they've been abducted by aliens when you know, and they can't prove it.
How do they know this? And I get that, but you know, and maybe it's because I've been exposed to these people much more than the average person. And you know, not only that in the arenas that we hang out in at these conferences and stuff, people are more willing to share that they believe this to be the case. Whereas in your office, and I wouldn't doubt this, and I would love to hear what you think.
In most offices around the United States, there may there I wouldn't doubt if there's maybe one or two people who feel the same thing, you just don't know because they're not going to tell you that they think they may have been abducted. There are so many people that feel this may be the case.
And I've met so many professionals and very credible and people who have held even positions that are very high in government or in corporations or otherwise who have been very capable at their jobs, who believe that they have had this happen to them. So unfortunately, she had talked about it in the press way back, and it's hard to even say unfortunately because it's kind of nice that she's sharing this because people can identify with her experiences. But now it's going to
have this huge negative effect on her. And it's too bad because of course, the first story that anytime she runs for something that runs is, you know, she was an abductee, and that's going to be kind of an albatross around her neck for you know, for her entire political career, should she continue to stay in politics. That's right, And she also says that she's been in touch with aliens telepathically long after the abduction, and you know she stayed that, and she says, she's not, you know, she's
she's sticking to her guns. She says, I when I believe in something, you know, I'm just gonna stick with it. So and you know that's not unusual either, when you hear people talk about, you know, possible abductions there, the telepathy thing. I don't know about keeping in touch with him. I haven't really heard people say much about that. But anyway, Yeah, she's she's got up. She's got some tough rowing in front of her, for sure, you know, interestingly enough, and it's been
a while since I've brought it up, so might as well. And we were talking to Jason about Jason earlier, and it's because of him that I can say this gentleman's name. But kirsan iliam Zenov. Wow, Jason. I know, when we first started writing about this guy, I could not say his name, and Jason practiced and got it down, and then it kept repeating it and then helped me and then I was able to get the name. And now I love saying it because I can. But this gentleman,
kirsen Il Jamsanov was a friend of Putin's. He ran a country. He was president of this country called Kalmikia, which is Russian province, which is a Buddhist country. Interesting enough, kind of city state type of place, or not a city, but a state in Russia. And it's kind of in the Middle East area, but very interesting that it's a Russian state that is Buddhist. But he believed he was abducted. He was not afraid to share his experiences. His political opponents used it against him on occasion,
but it really did not hurt his career at all. He was not shy about sharing it. Yeah, and he runs the chess Federation. That's right. He's a chess champion, right, Yes, Well, I don't know if he's much of a chess player himself, but thought he was. I thought that's one of the things that was in the story. Well he plays it, I know, but I couldn't remember if he's been a champion.
And the reason I say that is because the actual champion, famous chess player who I forget his name right now, he had been challenging Kirsan for the head of the Chinese or the chess federation and has lost, and he gets upset because Putin has backed his friend and he feels Putin has you know, rigged things in Kiirsan's favor. So yeah, but this is one politician whose reputation or at least job, was not affected or his relationship with Putin was
not affected by his coming out about his alleged alien abduction. And you know, one more thing, I got to say something controversial. You're ready for? Oh good, yeah, let's see if what you'll think about this. But for me as someone who is not a religious person per se. And this is because some people may be thinking, oh, she believes she's not an aliens, what the heck? But to me, you know, I'm
not a religious person. And religious people who are religious, and you know, even if you are religious people who spout their beliefs or talk about their beliefs of their religion that is separate from yours. There's some pretty you know, pretty weird stuff the Mormon church that the guy who runs a church just came out and said, God told me, don't call us Mormons anymore, and don't call us lds. You have to call us you know, the whole thing. And I don't even remember what the whole thing is. I
better learn it because I want to respect them and everything. And you know, some of our good friends are Mormons. Are Ben Hansen one of my best friends, he's a So you know, I want to respect them, but they belie believe that, you know, they believe God told this guy.
You know, they can't be called Mormons anymore. So, I mean, and every religion is like that, where they believe, you know, some pretty out there kind of ideas and when you take a step back and you say, wow, I guess the stuff we talked about at church can seem strange to someone who's not familiar with it. You know, the same
goes for abduction people there. They're talking about some strange stuff. But you know, if you're going to afford respect to others with their kind of different beliefs, I think it's fair, you know, to respect the beliefs of everybody. So instead of calling them Mormon, I mean, you can't call them the Church of the what is the Church of the Latter day Saints or something like that. I mean, I think you're supposed to call them Latter
day Saints. Oh how about that? Yeah, we'll probably hear more and more of that as time goes on. If you know, they keep pushing it. But this is fairly new and yeah they uh it's yeah, so well mm hmm, yeah, so they have this revelation to change it. Uh, something came down from wasn't. Oh no, I don't want to get into this because I might be controversial. Yeah, as far as your beliefs, No, I'm not. I'm not. Yeah, I just yeah, we won't go there except for it to say that, of course.
Yeah, Like you're The point you're making, though, is you don't even feel comfortable talking about because you don't want to make fun of it. But it's stuff that could sound pretty strange to some people. And so everybody has some pretty strange beliefs and you know, it's it's their right to do so. So if we're going to respect people with, you know, different religious beliefs, I think we should respect people with uh, you know, who
believe that they've been abducted or have communications with aliens. Because the the hard part is who knows if who's right to be honest. I mean, maybe the guy the head of the Latter day Saints did talk to God. Maybe these people are talking to aliens. Maybe you know, these other people have
visions of Mary. Maybe they are really having these I mean, I don't, I can't say for sure, so but either way, they're not espousing these beliefs to hurt anybody, so right, Yeah, and that's you know, the saying goles, whatever floats your boat, you know, whatever you know is there thing like, And you made up a very good point. Just now, as long as they're not hurting anybody, that's the only argument I have. We've got to go. Thank you Martin of course of Podcasts
for joining us with the news. You bet always a pleasure, And let's go ahead and get to our interview with Ryan Sprague right after this break. I am very happy to welcome back to the show. Ryan Sprague, Hello, Alejandra, Thanks for having me back. Man, it's been a while. You know what it's really funny is I could swear that we had talked after you had spoken at the International UFO Congress, but that's not the case.
I looked at the shows and it's been a couple of years. It has I think it was right around when I first found out I was going to be speaking, and yeah, you had me on just sort of, you know, talk about what I've been talking about at the event, and that was great. It was great to sort of tease what I was bringing to the table. You know, I'm one of those people in the field that always says, if you don't have something to contribute, like, what's
the point of saying it? So at that time I had something to say, and I sure exited. So and you did a great job. I loved it. Everybody loved the lecture, so as expected, you were a great addition to the to the event that year. Well, thank you. And it was also my first time ever doing it, so I have to thank you for that opportunity. Since then, I've you know, I've done events that you and I met at recent and other ones as well. I know it's all because of you, buddy, So thank you. So we'll
talk about that in just a second. But with the Congress, one more thing I wanted to mention, which was interesting too, is I knew you would have great content, but I didn't know if maybe you know, you get nervous presenting or anything. But if you were nervous, it didn't show at all. You did a great job. I mean, you seemed like a pro. You know, you knew what you're doing up there, you know, I mean I did go to school for theater, so I think
I definitely had that on my side. You know, I've been trained as an actor public speaking, but I'll tell you this man, being at your congress and speaking in front of UFO people whole different beast. Yeah, I was more nervous at your event than I ever was in any play I've ever done. Wow. Funny, But I will say your audience, they're so receptive and so respectful, and the minute I started, I knew they were
on my side, and it's such a welcoming place to be. So no, I again, I was very grateful for the opportunity, and it's only grown from there in terms of my own research and getting what I have to contribute to the field out there. So yeah, yeah, memories, my friend, memories. So you brought up that we had seen each other again recently at another place where you had done a talk, and that was passad enough for the Alien con which is not necessarily ancient aliens, but they do
have a partnership. It's advertised an ancient alien and and and so it's kind of the ancient alien event and it's awesome that you got to talk. But whoa were you blown? Away by the crowd. It was unbelievable. Man. I got there I think eight am, you know, when they asked you to come really early, sign in, you know, do what you have to do. And I had no idea what to expect. Now, I had I'd heard things about their first event and that it was cool,
and you know it was. It was a different atmosphere than most UFO events, and I didn't know what to really expect. But I met with one of your speakers this past year, Dean Alioto. We shared a table in the vendor room at this event, and the minute I got there and I saw him and saw you, we all sort of looked at each other like what is this? Yeah, we looked at each other from across the room with the sea of people. It was insane. I you know, I guess now looking at it, I understand how I guess. No, I
guess I would say I didn't understand how popular Ancient Aliens really was. But then you get there and you see people with Giorgio Suclos wigs and T shirts and you know, ancient Aliens everywhere, and that's when it really hit me how how big the alien you know, iconic gray head or green head or what have you really is in pop culture, and I think that's what this event really was in. I don't know, what do you think? What
did you make of the entire thing? No, you're right, I mean because we have, of course, one of our T shirt designs are newer ones. By the way, I love your Heinek T shirt design and I keep meaning too, and I'm going to get one. They're awesome. But I was just thinking that that this morning, which was funny. I was
like, I need to go buy one of those T shirts. But we had a bunch of alien T shirts because we have a cool alien design that our artists came up with for this last conference that we love and people love. Got it on all kinds of different styles. And one good thing with Karen is that she knows what women like. So we had women T shirts, but we also got an alien hat that we made and they sold like crazy. You're right, people love that symbol. And what freaks me out
about it is that it's an awesome symbol. It's fun, it represents aliens and everything. But if if there are aliens out there that look like that, alfagain, weird? Is it that these Earth flags are over here just you know, marketing the heck out of their image commercialism at it's fun instead well you know, I mean speaking of commercialism, that's kind of what I took from this event. Well, while I think, you know, there
was a lot of good conversation, some amazing panels. You know, Moufon had a really good panel that I happened to catch early on in the event. But this wasn't about UFOs per se. And I think that's sort of the misconception of what Alien Kanye is. It's right there in the name Alien con These people are here because they love aliens. They it's a place where they can feel that they can be proud and represent that kind of like we do with the UFO topic, and you know, meet other like minded people.
So I was meeting so many people who'd never heard of Heinek, who'd never heard of Project Blue Book Night, which was really interesting. It was like re teaching to an entirely new class and that was exciting. You and I. We experienced that on a couple panels as well. From what I can remember, Yes, I when we were on a panel, I you know, and I don't know if you remember this, that we were asking
the crowd questions. But the one that shocked me the most was when I asked if they had heard of that December story in the New York Times about the UFOs, and there were like two or three hands. And this was a crowded room. There was probably what at least one hundred, two hundred, probably more than that people that real and only a few people raise their hands, and it was it was twofold. It was one kind of a letdown. It's like, why aren't you people looking at this stuff? How
could you have missed it? But it was also exciting because it's like, all right, cool, we get to tell them about it exactly. Yeah, And again it was another moment where you, Diene and I looked at each other like here we go. What we thought was old news in the UFO community was brand new to people. And I think that's it's kind of where we lay right now with that whole topic to the Stars and the Pentagon program, like it's we kind of knew about this stuff, but to the
mainstream it's it's a bombshell. Yeah, maybe a quick fizzle, you know, as as these things often do, but a bombshell none the left so many people came up to me after learning about that Pentagon program like is this real what the government studied UFOs. I'm like, well, yeah, and they actually did it a lot earlier than the secret Pentagon program as well.
Right, it's interesting the perspective in which you look at this thing. It is vastly different between the mainstream and what we consider the quote unquote UFO community. So find that very fascinating. And I don't think any of it's bad personally. I mean, it's just you know, a lot of people get mad about marketing with UFOs and paying for stuff or whatever, but that's what creates an industry, and that's what creates interest, and that's what gets the
word out there to the masses. Yes, yes, money, you know runs a lot of things in our lives, but it also it's also an opportunity for us to not to capitalize, I guess, but to like you said, to get the word out. And sometimes if you want the truth, you're gonna have to pay for it. And I think that's that's kind of how it is to the stars as well. You know, you want to be a part of this invest let's invest in the future and the truth
that we're seeking. So that's kind of how I look at it. Yeah, yeah, And I mean, as you're someone who is in this industry to make a living. I mean to which and so am I And I don't mind. I mean when I put my product out there for free, it's because I want people to take advantage of it. So people can't afford to buy a T shirt. If people can't afford to participate and give money for it, I don't mind whatsoever, as long as they're participating and getting
the information. Yes, I am exactly the same way. I work under the same sort of formula. You know, all my content, whether it's a podcast or articles I write, everything's free. Like I'm not going to charge someone for something like that. I want people to get interested to learn. If you want extra content, that's where I ask help me out, help me out so that I can go out and do that investigation or you know, go to Detroit, Michigan and interview a woman and her daughter about
having seen a triangular UFO over their house. Like I want to look these people in the face. But I can take off two weeks from my day job because we all have day jobs to go do that without help so yeah, again, you know we're not We're not pulling the wool over people's eyes and asking them to give us money for no reason. We're saying, look, here's our information about UFOs. You can go find your own too if you'd like. But if you want to help us, do it. If
you don't, that's fine, here's a podcast for free. So we brought up the Heinek T shirt and I want to ask you because you made that design and started selling those T shirts before the announcement of the Project Bluebook television show, and it's probably going to hopefully help your sales. But Heinik is a little bit obscure, And so why is it you decided to choose, you know, that imagery as something that you know you're really putting forth. So that image, if you go to the store and look at it,
it's it's very very hip, very trendy, very hips ish. And that's kind of how I always perceived Heinich, you know from day one what he got. You know, when he started working with Project blue Book, he was kind of the rebel of the group. They wanted him to debunk all of these cases find prosaic and conventional explanations for him, and he just couldn't do it, to the point where he was frustrated when they would tell him
what to tell the public. And that really invigorated me. Elehundra. I remember reading Mark O'Connell's recent biography about Heinech, and that's when I really learned a lot about the man, and you know, kind of the pushback he got while he was with these programs, and how he constantly, constantly battled back for legitimacy, both for the UFO topic and for what was sort of
becoming the UFO community or UFO research community. And you know, the image I always sort of remember is when he was traveling with a couple other investigators to go I believe it was to the Sikoro case, to go investigate it. As right after it happened, their car breaks down, and what do they do. They just wait there until, you know, hopefully another government issued vehicle comes to pick them up. No, Heinich gets out and he he you know, puts his thumb in the air and he tries to hadgehike
all the way to Sikoro to see what was going on. I mean, that's the dedication this guy had you know, he wasn't going to just go along with it. He was going to do his own thing, carve his own path, and come up with his own conclusions, which eventually led to QFOS, his own UFO research organization. So I love Heinech. He really has become what some of us younger people in the field are calling our UFO Dad, like he really was there to nurture us and show us, show
us the way. And I think that's very important is to take the work of the Heinecks and you know, the Freedman's and the Robins and all these quote unquote old guard and build off of their work, not to ever ignore it forget it, but to build off of it. And Heinek was definitely
that for me. So I thought he deserved his own T shirt for sure, and clearly many other people agreed yes, And I totally agree because I've I've always almost every lecture I do, I figure out how to talk about Heinek because I don't want people to forget and I want them to know that this astronomer who was hired to debunk UFOs and happily did so. At the beginning, was like, WHOA, wow, there's something to this and really
became you know, the dad or the grandfather of modern upology. He started it, you know, way back when exactly you know, and again there's resistance when things first begin, but he did it, and he went along with it until his dying day. So I have nothing but respect for him and many of the other people like him. You know, I'm reading the book about James McDonald right now, which is amazing. You know, these people who are willing to look outside the box, challenge the scientific community and
try to find other explanations. It's fascinating and I love it. I love learning about what came before all of us in this field. Oh that's really cool. Yeah, and it's funny. I just thought of talking about that.
So some other things to talk about when it comes to this field is you know, you and I have both been focusing on the Adam project, and I know I've seen some social media because I know you interviewed Jason McClelland, of course, who used to work with Open Minds, and I've seen you know, he seems to be a real advocate, which isn't too much of a surprise because he knows Tom DeLong as well, and I think people assume, you know, that I'm just going to go along with, you
know, what they're doing because of my associations with them. But you know, I hope people see in my writing I do question, you know, I don't go along with everything they do. I do question some of what they're up to it, and so I hope you know, I'm giving honest answers. But there is kind of this negative stigma about you know, oh, these guys are going to collect materials, how can we trust them? And all this other negativity. So, and what I'm setting up is whatever
your response, it's safe here, whether you're skeptical or otherwise. But how do you feel about, you know, what to the Stars is doing, including kind of this new Atom project? Yeah, I mean the Atom project to me is sort of the first time that I looked at this group and said, wow, okay, so they're actually they're doing this. They're going full steam ahead and they are going to look at physical evidence. You know, this is no longer video footage or some photos that were declassified at one
point. This is actually them boots on the ground going out recovering objects that are said to possibly be otherworldly or non terrestrial and investigate it, like put their own money and put that investment money to good use. So in terms of to the Stars in general, I was hesitant at first. I think everyone was like, what, Like, what is what's going on here? Why is the former frontman of a pop punk man doing this? But like you and I know, and Jason knows, he's been interested in this Tom
DeLong for a while. You know, even on the road touring with Blink twin eighty two, he was reading the Valet books and you know, the Freedman books everything, and you guys even interviewed it at one point. So I knew that the guy definitely knew what he was talking about. But to what extent, in what motive there was behind to the Stars, I wasn't quite sure. I will tell you after those first two videos was I was
more interest, And now that Adam is started, I'm in Alejandra. I will be the first to say, now, I know you had mister Cogswell on recently who talked a lot about the science behind this, And while I agree with pretty much everything Chris has said, I do have more optimism when it comes to what they're doing with this research project. Do they have the materials yet that I think could be that anomalous. I can't tell you,
but I think it's very exciting. I think it's controversial. You know, put Off is at the head of EarthTech, which is he's what the vice president of to the Stars. If I'm not correct, that's a good question. I'll look that up real quick while we're talking. Yeah, he's definitely up there, you know, in terms of with the company. Let me see, I think I have it here, vice president of science and technology.
There we go. So, I mean a lot of people are skept because Adam is earth Tech and to the Stars is also earth Tech, so they're working with themselves. A lot of people had issue with that, like, oh wow, they're announcing that they're working with their own members. Cool. But I think what maybe wasn't brought up as much with Cogswell and maybe some of the other people who are skeptical about this is the fact that hell
put Off is he's also separate from it as well. Whatever EarthTech comes up with is going to be completely separate from the opinions of Tom DeLong or to the Stars in general. This is a separate entity. They are hired to do a job, and it's a straight contract to look at these materials and figure out what they are and possibly where they come from. Now, again, because it's connected to the Stars, I understand why there's a lot of
hesitancy to support that. But at the same time, put Off spoke to i'm Jabiniis who I had recently on my show and told him, look, I'm not here to say anything's alien or anything. We were hired to look at these materials and that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna come with our results, we're going to get them peer reviewed, and we're going to bring that to the public. So that's kind of where I stand on it.
I'm I'm all in. I look forward to what they are doing in general, but at the end of the day, they're looking for answers their way, and we're going to continue to look for answers our way, And I think that's kind of how people have to look at it. Instead of calling people dumb or stupid for following to the stars and that you know, they're they're ringing us all for every penny. It's not true. It's it's safely not true. I haven't put a penny into this thing, and I'm getting
a lot of knowledge out of it of things I never knew about. So that's kind of how I look at it. You make a really great point there at the end. I also have not put a penny into it, But are you kidding that what we're gaining is huge? I mean, the legitimization of what we do of this entire field. Really, I've seen it
in the background somewhat. But for instance, when I met Scott Kelly recently and I got to do an interview with him, and I had told the PR people I was working with that I'm gonna ask him about UFOs, and their reaction was very, very positive. They were like, cool, that's gonna be a great question. And I was taken aback, you know, I was like, wow, great. But still there's one thing to have the PR guys say it's okay or ladies, but to have Scott. But
I felt less nervous. And my friend and a writer with Forbes, she was very supportive as well, even though a little nervous because you know, in media, we know it's fairly taboo this type of stuff, but it's kind of legitimized as to be okay. And when I asked him, even though and I of course prefaced it with the Pentagon and their price, even though he was a little bit you could tell it was a little bit of a weird topic to him, he understood it was a legitimate question and he
answered it as such. And that is a completely different world than we used to be in. And it's due to at least well, it's due to two the Stars getting Elizondo to participate and in him sharing his experience in the Pentagon. I couldn't agree more the legitimization of this topic within the last year. It has changed the field drastically. Whether people want to admit that or not, and whether they support to the Stars or not, it has left an imprint on this field, and I think it's great. Again. I
haven't put a penny into it, and that doesn't matter. It really doesn't. And I don't want people to think I'm bashing Cogswell, who is a scientist and knows heleck I give a lot more than I do about metamaterials. But when it comes to other people in the FILD to say, well, they were involved with Bigelow and they were involved with these other projects, that
never yielded any results. That's okay with me. Like, at the end of the day, of course, they're going to give it another try, because these people are passionate about the topic and they're passionate to see what it could bring to you know, the technological world, to the philosophical world, everything. Look at the group of people they have involved. They're so multifaceted
that they all probably have their own reasons for having done this project. And that's exciting because at the end of the day, you and I are doing the same thing. We're in this field for very personal reasons to find our own truth. And I think that's what Tom DeLong is doing, and I think that's what each individual involved with this is doing. They're not out to scam us and make money and you know, run off with the circus at
the end of the day and leave us all poor and begging. It's people who are like who are passionate about this topic and just want to get some sort of answer before they leave desert. In my opinion, now we're about out of time to go into the first break already. But uh, you know, to add to that, with all of these rumors and everything going on, which is frustrating when it comes to rumors, because I wish people would seek the facts, and the facts are Tom DeLong has a lot,
a lot, a lot of money and he doesn't need your money. It's not a scam for him to get money. But it's a it's a it's a you know, it's a it's the company that needs the money to do the research. And one of the reasons I haven't donated is because it's a journalist and you and I shouldn't really to remain biased so that we're not, you know, over here trying to help out a corporation that we've got an
investment in, and that's the important reason that we shouldn't be involved. But I want to talk about when we get back this whole idea about Big Lo not producing anything, especially when it comes to one of the great things they did produce, which was the Skinwalker Ranch investigation. So we'll talk about that after the break. You're listening to Open Mind UFL Radio with Alejandro Rojas. I've got Ryan Sprague on and we will be back after the short break to
talk more about the state of uphology. Be right back. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we are here with Ryan Sprague. Hello, mister Sprague. Hello, it's good to be back. So, you know, there is kind of this concept and you had mentioned it that to the Stars, you know, EarthTech, Bigelow, they are all together there. It's a mix. It's almost like to the Stars is an evolution of the Bigelow projects and research, because it's mostly
the same people and this idea. Oh, they haven't even produced anything. Well, they did produce a bunch of papers. But besides that, one of the things they produced, which I think is really important and I think it has been impactful to the world, is the Skinwalker Ranch investigation. Yes, I know this sort of came to light, at least to some of us who weren't privy to this, through Jeremy Corbell's work and the work of George Knapp that Bass. You know, Bigelow's project was a part of this
Pentagon program at one time as well, which just blew my mind. You know, here we thought they were looking at military footage of UFOs, and in the meantime they're also looking at all these things that happened on the ranch, which just astounded me, Like this was no longer just about UFOs and the sky. It was about anomalous and paranormal things happening back here on the ground as well. So it's interesting this is to the Stars. I think
we've sort of termed big low two point zero and some respects. Yeah. Well, one thing you know that I also find interesting about all this, and you can speak to this as well, is I had talked about kind of how the mainstreams adoption of all this and how positive it's been, and it's really weird to be in this position where to the stars Eleisondo, you
know who worked with Harry Reid, who got the funding and everything. The media has really responded very positively and all across the board, bipartisan, Fox News, Tucker Carlson loves this stuff, and you know these CNN has done so much. So it's all over the place and people have opened up. But a lot of people in the UFO community and maybe it's, like Stanton says, a negative noisy negativists, there's this outcry of frustration and anger,
and I don't get it. I struggle with this one alle hundred because I see both sides of it. One part of me is I'm excited about to the Stars and everything they're doing, the Pentagon program coming forward, these things are very exciting to me and I love it. And on the other and I do see the UFO community being the biggest naysayers to all this, and like Friedman says too, sometimes we're our greatest enemies. And where I see
that pushback really is. I think what it really is is people are looking at DeLong now as the face of eufology, and I think that's what people were scared of when he first came forward with all this is uh oh, everything we've done, our research, it's all going to be overshadowed by To the Stars. And maybe maybe that's the case, but I haven't seen that happen yet. And I think personally, the more journalists, the more scientists that give To the Stars a chance, the more we can all be a
part of something like that, the grander scheme of To the Stars. Not investors, not members of the community or the board, but just curious people in the UFO field who want to be involved with something on that at that level. And I'm seeing it more as people are afraid that everything they've done, all the research that they've done is going to be overshadowed by this one thing. But you are doing your thing. I'm out interviewing individuals, getting
their witness testimony and bringing those forward. That's what I do. That's what I do in the field. That's my contribution, what I like to do, what I love to do. I don't want to dig for months and years looking for, you know, one buzzword in a document that was declassified twenty years ago, and that's just not me, man, That's not what I do. I don't have the tenacity to do something like that, or the diligence to be honest. I like to interview witnesses and hear they're very
human stories, and that's my contribution to it. So that's kind of how I look at it. You know, if you're so vehemently against this project, don't follow them, don't contribute to them, but don't add to that negative view. When all of the mainstream wants to do right now is take this topic seriously. We should be thankful. In my opinion, we really should be thankful for this. We live in an age now and I think
UFOs are It's a paradigm shift within the community and outside the community. UFOs are hot right now, and we have to keep that in mind and grab
onto that instead of pushing it away. You know what's really funny too, is that a lot of the like you said, and I think it's an access and involvement that maybe the UFO community doesn't feel involved, but they can be and doing what they already do because I've, for instance, when I've been approached by media people or PR people, they don't know the difference between UFOs and aliens, so they're like, oh, wow, aliens are real.
You know, that's how they're taking it. Even There was a Daily Galaxy story not long ago, and the gist of the beginning of the story was now that the Pentagon has done this UFO research to show that they there's really something there. Maybe we are being visited by aliens and this fact is as not really freaking people out like we always thought it would happen. And then they went on to talk about the Pentagon project, the credibility of the
great cases said he this is a daily Galaxy. This is you know, what astronomers pay attention to, and really scientific type of stuff, and they're taking it further than they should because to the stars or Alessandro has not said they found aliens or you know, they know what who's flying in these UFOs and stuff. But they've never once used the word alien. But everybody else is interpreting it that way and still having a positive view, and so they're
much more positive about the whole idea it is. It's exciting. I mean, when you really think about it, the possibility of life elsewhere in the galaxy or the universe is extremely exciting and it can be scarybviously, yes, But the more real I think it becomes when we discover exoplanets or we start reaching further further out into space and finding these habitable zones, like that's making
it more of a reality. And the more closer to reality it is, the more we know and the less we fear it, at least in my opinion. M hmm, yeah, I agree. But and and like you said, I think people just need to see how they can take advantage and how which is true, whatever their perspective is, is going to get more attention as this whole field gets more attention. But if you try to tear this whole thing down, of course, looking for the truth is very very
important. So there are people who feel they have evidence of some sort of misinterpretation or misrepresentation, and if that comes out to be true, then that's the problem that should be exposed and that should be looked at. But we should certainly embrace the idea of people more people being interested in what we're doing.
Yes, embrace it. But do your homework too. I mean, yeah, if to the star screws up and they have, let's be honest, they've had a few bumps along the way, like point those out. But don't you know, negate the entire thing just because they forgot to blur something out on a you know, in a video where they a name was left in. Here. Are those important issues, yes, and they need
to be resolved and they need to be acknowledged. But at the end of the day, like we all kind of just have to we have to look at each other's work, check it, and then work together instead of just tearing each other down. I know it seems very you know, hippie, dippy piece in love, but it's true. It's true, it really is. You know what's funny too, is as this stuff has become more popular, people don't really care that as much. You know that I know this
person or that person like Elixander or something like that. The person that they get most excited about it is Georgio getting back to Ancient Aliens. Is that, you know, he's so iconic in that really this whole field is partially and I'm sure there's a lot of UFO people upset about that too, that he has kind of personified this field a lot as well. It's it's tough man. Again. I think when we really look at it, we have to look at the whole Ancient Aliens thing as a pop cultural movement, because
that is what it has become. You know, maybe in its first in its infancy, it really was thought provoking, and I'm not saying it's not now in whatever season they're in. I mean they're ambitious and their claims and their theories, and I respect them in some ways for that. I don't want to down you know, downplay them or talk badly about them. They're again, they're doing their own subtopic within this huge world of UFOs and alien
that we all find ourselves fascinated by. So I mean, you know, we we were in the same room with Georgio or or you know, other members of the show or David Dukovney over here, like, these are celebrities, they're part of pop culture. But who do they gravitate towards when they're
eating their lunch or you know, waiting in the green room. It's the actual UFO researchers, because they basically play us on television or you know, in the movies and whatnot, and they they're curious, They're interested in the actual reality behind a lot of this. I talked to Mitch Pleggy played Skinner on The X Files, had you know, coffee with him the first morning at the Alien Con and he he asked me what I did. I told him, I'm a UFO researcher. I interview people. I go out and
investigate. He said, See, that's cool. He's like, you know, I just do this on TV, but you guys are actually out there doing this. He'said, that's so so cool. So to have someone like Agent Skinner tell me that someone I grew up on watching on television and aspired to be, it's like it comes full circle. It really does. And I think, again, we have to grab that pop culture aspect and get
what we can out of that as well. That is so cool. That reminds me and I'm pretty sure you took this picture right that has now become famous of Giorgio Sukulos with David DUKEVNY. Yes, that was a moment I will never forget being in that room when that happened. Never, never in my life did I think I would see those two together, nonetheless taking a photo together. So yeah, yeah, that was a moment that will be etched into my memory now permanently since it's all over the internet, But a
moment I'll never forget again. Alien Con was so much fun. And if you look at it that way, like just having a good time, awesome. If you're looking at it as a straight up UFO event where everyone's serious, you were going to be sorely disappointed, but did not take away from it. Yeah, I was gonna say, although a lot of those people were you know, they were thirsty for legitimate information. I mean they loved
what we had to share with them, so oh totally. Our panels were packed and dude, I sold a lot of books in the first like a few hours of the event, and again it was amazing. Yeah, we decided to and it was kind of last minute to make a bunch more t shirts and then fill up a truck and take it out there. Because we heard how many people might be there. We sold everything. It was insane. We were just so busy selling, sell and selling. Yep. And
again, I don't want people to sort of misconstrue what we're saying. It's not like, oh, we're rich and everything. We traveled to these events, we pay for tables and stuff like that, like these are things people don't understand. We're just trying to make our money out of money. And you're right, these are consumers of knowledge, you know why. They might have been there to see if aliens built the pyramids, don't get me started
on that. They're also there to learn about the topic. And the fact that they stopped and asked me about my book and then bought it without having any idea who I was or what I was doing there was amazing and that was all the validation I needed that this topic is in good hands, both on the consumer side and the producing side of the informations. Oh look, I want to ask a little bit more about this picture too, because his picture is probably going to be more venomous than will ever be and go on
in history. Who knows it may show up in history books or something because it's just gotten so huge. But so how did how did it come about? Was it your phone that you used, or was it Georgio's or how did that come about? It was one of the talent coordinators in the room. They actually left me with their phone and they were like, if you get a chance, could you see if these like they were talking back and forth with each other, like just get a photo. So I like kind
of crept up and guys, can I take a photo? And they, you know, they sort of stopped mid sentence and do Coveny was like, what what should we do? And that's what they came up with. So, you know, while it's not on my personal device, I can say that the button was pushed by my finger and I was in the room when it happened. So that's awesome. But you're right, it will outlive all of us, and it has become a meme at this point. Yes, that's all we could ask for. I've seen it all over the place.
I can't remember what news outlet, and I was so bummed that you weren't mentioned it. And I'm sure they had no idea who took the picture, but h But that's okay, that's so awesome that you could have been there for that and out smart. It was of that you know, talent coordinator. Oh they know what they're doing for sure. That was super smart to get that picture. You so with ancient alien, I I guess I didn't
realize. And what's kind of curious is it brings up this topic and I think that our listeners, your listeners and my listeners are a big part of this. And it is kind of these silent communities and it's almost like the Internet has bred this where you never know how large these communities of people are. So for instance, I feel and you know, when you and I do this and others of the ILK, there are a lot of people like
us. Like that's what's been wonderful about doing stuff lately is there's a lot of people who want credible information and it's kind of like this silent, large community out there. Yeah, it really is. I mean I can't tell you. Okay, So I work at a Sasquatch themed coffee shops. So cool, Yes, totally by chance. I didn't plan it's it was the first job to hire me when I made the big trek out here. Out
west. But that being said, every day, Elejandro, people come in and you know, they ask about Sasquatch or they ask about this and they find out that I'm a UFO researcher. And I'm not kidding you. At least up one person per day. It's like, oh, I've always wondered about that, or oh, I like I look at that stuff all the
time online. I just never knew like other people were interested. And you're right, it sort of sits stagnant on the Internet behind these avatars we create online and talk to one another, and then you when you meet these people in real life, you're like, oh my god, this is real. Like more people than we ever thought are interested in these topics. That's really really inspiring to me. The field is much larger than we get it credit
for. For sure. I don't think anybody would have realized. You know, all the people that showed up an alien con as we know, just for pictures and autographs. The lines went out the building and down the street hours. People were waiting hours for those and again, like you can't ask for more than that. They were that excited to meet their heroes, whether it's Duchovny or suclose anyone, you know, children's what have you? They
they love this stuff. And again we might sound like we're you know, we're we're we're cheering them on, but we're also very what's the word, We're tough when it comes to this stuff as well. I have my personal opinions about the ancient alien theories. But at the end of the day, yes, it's more people getting interested in these topics that we can then give them our information to so it's cyclical and I think it's great. I really do. At the end of the end of the day, I think it's
great. Well, I want to leave enough time. I added a couple more questions, but you know what, I want to leave enough time to make sure we plug everything that you want to talk to and I have enough time to thank you for coming on the show because this has been so much fun. I knew it would be an inspirational and it's just cool to talk to someone who you know it's kind of doing the same thing and inspire each
other. But I do want to make sure like you've got your podcast, you have your Patreon, what other you've got I guess the website plug away? Well, thanks man, it's always a pleasure when you ask me to come on. I didn't know what we're going to talk about, but I knew we would find things to talk about. And if I blab, it's because I'm excited and I'm passionate. So you could find all my blabbing and everything at Somewhere in the Skies dot com. I do have the podcast I
do weekly. If you want bonus episodes one on one Skype sessions with me to just talk about stuff we talked about today and all that good stuff, you can go to my Patreon, Patreon dot com slash somewhere Skies. Other than that, I am working on a new book right now, follow up to my first book, so expect that sometime hopefully in twenty nineteen. I'm very excited about that. It's a topic that's refreshing and that I don't think
is necessarily been covered in the field yet. So I will be giving updates and progress on that on the podcast and again at the website Somewhere in the Skies dot com. And then you're going to be at alien Con in Baltimore in November. They're doing it again. Yes I am. I was invited back for Baltimore my personal East Coast as it were. I'll be joined by Jason McClellan. We're going to be doing some panels and representing Roque planets somewhere
in the skies and a little bit of Open Minds as well. I'm really looking forward to that and I think seeing you as well, am I correct. Yeah, we're going to have a table there. We're mostly certain we'll have a table there. Awesome. Well, I look forward to seeing you then in November. Yes, very soon. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show again. Thank you so much, Alejandro. Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much to Ryan Sprout for joining us
on the show. He was awesome. So Ryan is one of the people. He's kind of the main dude actually, because I saw him doing this, inspiring me to get on this Patreon, which is kind of like what he said with the hip kids are doing. Just like if Heinich was a round, that's what he would be doing. He'd be on Patreon. But I'll talk to you more about Patreon. But if you want to help out Ryan, which I hope you do, go follow him, become a patron of his Patreon like I have, and or go buy one of those Heinig
t shirts like I have. I actually literally just bought one, so really cool. Thanks Ryan. I'm going to tell you about my Patreon also in just a second, but first I want to give you some news, especially about the UFO Congress YouTube page. So the UFO Congress has its own YouTube page. Some of you know that's where the Alezondo video is. How's the interview that we got for that. But we're trying to get this up and
ramp and we need one thousand subscribers. So once we get to one thousand, and we're pretty close, we're going to give out a free T shirt to a YouTube subscriber. So if you haven't subscribed to the UFO Congress YouTube page, go do that now. And in order to help out, we're putting some really cool stuff up there for free. So Karen, who owns the Congress now, also ran Travis Walton's last anniversary event just a couple of
years ago, and there were some rare occurrences that happened there. One of them was at Tracy Tormat, the producer and the writer of the movie Fire in the Sky about Travis Walton, was there and he did a talk That talk is now posted up on the UFO Congress YouTube page, so very rare to hear him talk. If you want to know, hey man, what did the middle of the movie not go the way that Travis said it went?
You know, you can find out because he answers those questions. So go check that out, check out that video really really cool stuff, and subscribe to the page Patreon. Speaking of YouTube, one of the things that I'm doing is a thing called UFOs Seriously, and it's a live thing that I do on Thursday at six pm where I give UFO news for the week and I also answer people's questions. So people are on there, you know, you can chat and stuff. Well, you can see everything I'm doing,
including links to this on my Patreon page. Of course you can find it at openminds dot tv as well, but on my Patreon page. I've got everything that I'm doing on all the different outlets. So for instance, you can see some interviews here that I have with some actors from Mars to television show, really cool stuff and the showrunner, all of whom are awesome. So with the actors Jeff Hefner and g Hey g Hay is cool. She's going to be in the next Peter Jackson movie, which is going to
be huge. She's going to be a gigantic star. And I can say I knew her. She's really awesome. I love her to death. But Jeff it's really cool too. But also d Johnson, and she's a showrunner of the show. She was also the showrunner of Er. I got to get a sneak peek of the second season, so I've seen it. It
is really really good. It launches like in a couple of months. But we talk about some of what you're going to see in the second season of Mars on those videos for denniv Geek, as well as other articles that I have up there, and if you become a Patreon subscriber, you'll get sneak peeks to stuff that I haven't posted yet. So for example, in Roswell,
I was at the Stanton Friedman's last panel. So the very last panel in Roswell had some Roswell researchers and the last question was to Stanton, you know, to share some words of wisdom, and he did, and then after that he got a standing ovation and he shared some more information. I recorded that and I have it up on Patreon. You have to be a Patreon patron, which costs you as much as a whole dollar a month to be able to see that, so it's very cheap. It's affordable, and
then you'll get to see those video. Honestly, I'll probably release him at some point in the future, but if you want to see him right now, go check him out on Patreon and then follow that because I'll put lots of other stuff that I'm doing on there, So that's Patreon. Check that out, and of course check out UFO's leave on the open mind YouTube page.
And you can see all this at openminds dot tv. Otherwise, follow me on social media for more and for more of all of this, and I will be at the Devil's Tower UFO rendezvous next month in September thirteen, fourteen fifteen, with lots of our good friends, and I think we're talking about what at least Bigo, Mark d' antonio, Karen Bard is going to be doing a talk, David Marler, Chris O'Brien, and Richard Beck with hopefully I'm not forgetting anybody, but hopefully you can make it. It's a
really fun event. Other than that, I want to thank Caleb Hanks for the opening and close music. Oh yes, his brother Micah Hanks will be there at the conference with us. I also want to thank SISC the Man Next for the bumper music, and of course I want to thank Martin for joining us with the news. Martin of podcast UFO check them out. And I want to thank you the listener. Thank you so much for being here. We'll talk to you next week. Until then, Audios moved chachos, you were motions