Hello, and welcome to Open Minds Radio. This is your host Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin rolland Stone Willis. You are on the road, correct, I am. I am currently right out front of the USDA in Albany, New York. I have to get my dog stamped for international travel. Oh really, that's like I thought, that's like meat packing and stuff. Though you're not going to like sell your dog for food in Russia. Is at a delicacy out there or something? I didn't say he
was alive. Oh no, he's quite alive. We actually have to get paper stamped, and so when we're ready to go tomorrow, paper stamped here. Okay, and that's it. It's a long process. Not easy to travel with a dog. But I am inseparable from my little uh chihuaha. How funny, I understand. Yeah, he's one of these. He doesn't shake, he doesn't bark like people always complain. He's very loyal and he
attacks on command. So it's it's perfect. He's a perfect dog. Good little attacker, little ankle attacker on the met Hey, nobody wants their ankles bitten off, so it works just as good as anything else. The Graves yeah, hah. I can understand because I had a little chihuaha that I love to death. But I guess before we move on, because you don't have much time. So I do want to tell people who the guests will be once you hang up on me. That's going to be Ron Felber.
He's an author and he usually authors fiction books, thrillers and the such. He comes from a corporate background. However, he says twenty years ago or so, he met this couple who he says is credible, who told him that they were abducted by aliens. So he was open to listening to them, and he says he believes their story and he spent a lot of time. He's had it researched, and so he wrote a book on their story called The Mojave Incident, inspired by a chilling story of alien abduction. And
we interviewed him about that. So we'll have that coming up after Martin and I talk about the news. Well, hey, Ron's going to be on my show as well. October seven, yep, October seventh. I believe it is okay, Wow, how funny? Yeah yep, So yeah, I was really looking forward to talking to him. Now I'll have to listen to the show to make sure I don't ask him the same questions you ask me. Yeah, so pretty interesting, Steph. So we'll talk to him
in just a minute. But before we do that, let's go ahead and get into the news. So do you have a news story? I do? You know. One of the things I liked when I was reading through the stories on Open Minds is it's about an old case that happened in nineteen ninety four. And like you had mentioned a while back, it seems like a lot of these old cases are coming forward. People are coming forward to tell him. I might have to do with you know, the UFO shows
on TV and you know Hanger One with you know Mofon. So this is a Moufon reporter case recently happened back in nineteen ninety four, and it was a Virginia witness and they talk about I really liked this story because they talked in detail about this UFO that hovered over a house. So the witness recalled that back in I think it was September of nineteen ninety four, he or she was returning to work and noticed what looked like a huge star moving across
the horizon. In the distance, and the person followed this thing, got in the car and drove about a mile away, when here she came upon this encounter and it was only about one hundred or so feet away, and it was beaming a light down on top of a house, and it was completely quiet, completely silent. And so what really was interesting about this is it had a huge red light in the center of the bottom and then it was covered with white lights. And they drew a picture of it and submitted
it so on your site you can see what it looked like. And the thing that really was interesting about this is she noticed that he or she noticed. I have a feeling it was a woman, but I have no idea why. They noticed that a car was in a school parking lot and it left and the UFO followed it. So they drove behind an up over hill to see what was happening in both the car and the UFO were nowhere to be seen. Great story, Yeah, really weird step. And yeah,
these are those ones that are just so strange. And the image is kind of cool because they use like a photoshop or something it looks like to create the image, so it gives you a better effect. But yeah, that is a really weird case. It's an interesting one, and these are hard and some people are like, oh, you know, there's no pictures or video, we just have to take them by their word. But you know what, even with pictures and videos, typically you can't make heads or tail
of them, so you have to use the anecdotal information anyway. So anecdotal information, it's kind of all we have to go on. And these are one of those things where you're like, did it happen? Did it not? You know what the heck? I mean, there's so much detail you wouldn't think someone would go through the effort of, you know, making up this such an odd story just to post it. Not only that, it's when someone remains anonymous and they go through this type of detail, you know
what would they benefit? Yeah, so I think it's a great story. Yeah, really interesting one. All right. So I wanted to talk to you, not that it's fun that tap crap, and I don't mean to throw too many jabs at some of these places out there, but this is
just one of those things. So there's this video of a rush UFO out and you know we've talked about we talk about how the tabloids have picked up UFO stories so much in the UK, but it started to get annoying lately because they're picking up these videos on these hoaxed on these YouTube sites that create hoaxed UFO videos all the time. Right. So there's a guy, uh, the director of investigations here, Dennis Firemouth here in Arizona. He's great.
He actually, unfortunately, you know, discovered the hey mundane nature of a Tucson siting out here, and we posted that story not too long ago. Lispiegel actually wrote about it. But he also did this video because there was a hoax video. Secure Team ten h you know, put out this video. They have lots of hoax videos and they put this one where this
cube comes out of this you know, cloud type of thing. And so Dennis had shown me how he he made something very similar in ten minutes, and he gave me this video and it's great, and I've been waiting for the right chance to use it. So when this Russian thing came along, you know, I just kind of was getting all over the place, so I decided to look into it. It took me ten minutes to figure out the background. I mean, my concern here is that most of these alleged
fantastic videos, there's no witness testimony. Like on our stories. When we write stories about UFO sidings, we post the YouTube link. You know, when you're looking at the YouTube video, it's from their YouTube channel. We're not you know, stealing it and reposting it, which is what happened in
the case I'm about to mention, or we're not just fabricating it. With these hoaxed ones, you usually they don't have any history to them at all, and you don't know who the witness is and you can't trace them. So I decided to trace this video of the Russian uf Sure enough, it turns out it was actually posted a year ago, coincidentally, a year ago from the date that I decided to write the story, September ninth, which
is so weird. And it was from Poland. So these guys saw these lights over the bay out there in Poland, and there were actually a couple videos that were taken. I think they're most likely military flares, but who know. Some people have said they disagree with that. You can go to the videos. They are, you know, interesting videos. Apparently the videos were them then downloaded and posted by a bunch of these, you know, dubious UFO YouTube places. One of them posted it recently and they said it
was Russian. Unfortunately, then one of the popular UFO sites out there that the UK loves to follow posted it with all of this wrong information, and and then the daily what is the Mirror Online posted the story with all the completely wrong information without doing the research to find out where it really came from. It's just frustrating that, you know, they don't do their due diligence and we've talked about this before and they post just completely false information as if
it's the truth. And it's just very frustrating. How did you figure that out? I mean, if you you only had a video to go on, right, I mean, how did you figure out that it was the one in Poland? Well, you know, I figured there can't be too many Polish UFO videos, so well, Russian actually is at first what I did, and so I googled Russian UFOs videos, looked through the videos until you know, I found the same one, and I just kept searching.
Then I found Uh, Luckily, I guess this is what helped the person who originally posted the video put in his comments it could be the Russian military. So that's why this came up, was under it with the tag word Russian because actually it's a Polish video. So and it actually came up because it was posted by one of the very popular hoaxing UFO youtubes out there,
and they at least had more information about its origins. So I was able to use that information to do more searching to find the original videos from the original posters. And that's what I have in my story is links to the originals so people can see the difference and get the background. Because I also think it's fair, you know, to give the original person the hits they
deserve. That's why I don't like to a lot of people will ask can I download your video and put it on my YouTube, because then I'm making it more popular and I'm making money off of your video. I would rather embed the original person's video, so first they get credit for it because it's their video. And second, so you know, people can go to the source find out more about the origins of the video, so they can question the you know, the person who posted the video in the first place,
and do their own research and investigation. So it's funny enough Mirror Online. Lise Biegel, I don't know if you saw this, wrote a story recently about how the Mirror Online wrote about edgar Mitchell saying that aliens are stopping nukes from happening, and Lise Biegel asked gar Mitchell about it. He said, he never told the Mirror that and they just completely made up the interview. Oh, I had no idea that story was everywhere. Yeah, it was
everywhere. And now Mitchell says, yeah, they made it up. Wow, isn't that wild. Aren't there like libel lawsuits for stuff like this. I don't know they did. Li said they did reach out to the Mirror and they didn't want to comment. Lee was expecting the Mirror to re butt, you know, the story, because if they really did, because they said, we got this at these quotes from an interview. But instead of saying, look, here's our quotes from the interviewer, here's proof we did
the interview, they've said nothing. So perhaps, you know, the interview never did happen. Who knows. It seems like the someone did some research and the time that they claimed they did the interview was the same time that Jim was holding his Roswell Slides event, and it was actually the same day that Edgar Mitchell had a pre recorded interview that was shown there at the Roswell's Slides event. So yeah, well, I don't know what's going on with
this world. In fact, I'm like, I don't post their links because you know how I do the daily headlines. I'm not posting these these links at the u K. Tabloids are posting these dubious videos anymore. I mean, if it's something original, I love the stories where they have a you know, citizen there in the UK who says, look at my weird pictures or videos, because that's great. Those are just regular people reporting stuff. But even though often they turn out to be birds or something mundane, but
not always, and it's better than I think. You know, they're just seeking the sensationalism of posting these dubious videos. What can you do? What can you do? Beious? You know, I'm gonna this is the first time. I'm gonna have to cut this short because I have appointment. I got to get my dogs now, no problem, all right, all right, glad to have you for a little while. You have a safe trip, and hopefully we'll hear from you. Soon, right, Yes, hopefully
we can connect next Monday. It'll be late in the afternoon for me in Russia while you're just getting up. Perfect. Hopefully we can make it work. All right, Thank you very much, sir. You have a great trip, wonderful, be safe. All right, thanks a lot. So yeah, all right, now that Martin is gone, I am going to talk some mad smack about him. Oh you're not God yet. All right. Well now our good buddy Martin is gone for real, so now we
can really talk some smack just kidding. Let's go ahead and get into our interview with Ron Felber. I am very excited to have author Ron Felber with me. Hello, Ron, how are you doing? Air Alejandra God hear
your voice. Thank you. Yeah. It's always exciting when people who you know normally aren't the regular people who are out there writing books on this topic kind of find something, especially people who are seasoned authors such as yourself, find something that inspires them to get into this and so maybe you can tell people a little bit about the name of your book and what it's about. Well, it's called the Mohave Incident. Mojave Incident is available Amazon, and
you know, bones and noble and the rest. And the way I got into it was a little bit odd because I was a businessman for quite some time and I ran a company, a fairly large one, and we had to take about one hundred salespeople nationwide. And one of them was a good friend of mine on the West Coast, and you know, we were friends, so we talked like friends and over dinner one time. Knowing that I was a writer, he had a best friend who he played football with.
As a matter of fact, this fellow was an All state football player from a college in California, and they played football together. So he told me about an experience they had had, this incredible story with UFOs and alien abduction. And at the time I was writing thrillers and I still write thrillers, the Jack Madisons series, et cetera, things of that nature. So I said, well, you know, yeah, this whole UFO thing, elien
abductions. I'm sure your friends are great people, but you know, it's just not something I already have an interest in spending a lot of time writing about. So he was very compelling and he said, look, they don't want to tell the story. They went to their folks with it, their parents with it. And while their parents were understanding and helpful, you know, they loved them, et cetera, they they were skeptical and they really
were very smitten. The two individuals, the Gifferts, this would be Tom and Elise Giffert about that. So he put us together and reluctantly we met. But I found a story so incredibly compelling and them so credible that I said to myself, this is a story that needs to be told, because I don't think there's another one like it period. And about how long ago
was that? Well, the event actually happened in October ten, eighty nine, but they continued well after that in terms of just this feeling of being washed, and some watched in some episodes that happened with their children, et cetera. And when was that you your friend approached you and you began speaking with the difference that would have been in the early nineteen nineties, like nineteen
nineteen ninety one. But what I did was researched very thoroughly. We taped at long sessions where we taped each of their accounts great detail, vivid detail about the craft about the aliens that they encountered, et cetera. And then I had them brought to the National Center of Psychiatry. I'd gone to Georgetown University, that's where I got my degree, and a friend of mine was
director of psychiatry at the National Center of Psychiatry in Washington. So we took our first to get an evaluation, and doctor Bernard Patone said, you know, this is the most unusual case I've ever encountered. I believe what they're saying is true. They have no neurosis, they have no psychosis, There's not anything except this. They are suffering from the symptoms that a pow, a prisoner of war might suffer from sexual dysfunction, insomnia, an inability to
engage in day to day life anymore. So that was telling. Then I brought them to get retrogressed by that FBI hypnotist in Ashville, South Carolina, and that would be doctor William Anister, who again was absolutely stunned and said he had never encountered anything like it, and believe it. And we believed that this was absolutely true when you look at the various possibilities and other explanations that the one that they had and the one that we had was the correct
one, which was that they were abducted by aliens. So this book has been a long time in the making. You've been talking with this couple for around twenty years now. Well, I mean, I think I put this aside. Again, we had them taken for polygraph tests. I mean, it was a fairly extensive proposition in terms of research. I went to the actual site myself, so you know, I had at the time, I was running a company, and it was something that I did when I could
do it. But I kept copious notes and taped everything I could, videotape the hypnotic sessions, so that what you have here is an extremely well researched and well documented account that's really singular, and it's unique and in its scope. What had you thought of prior to your friend approaching you. What had
you thought, if anything, about the whole UFO phenomenon. Well, I mean, like everybody else, I mean, I think everybody wants to know, somewhere in the back of their mind, what is life all about? What is existence all about? Is there something we all part of some larger plan? And some people, you know, become religious, people become spiritual, and some people reject the whole notion entirely. I guess that I would be one of these people that would say I'm modestly religious, modestly spiritual.
I guess, if anything, I was a cop trends who transported federal prisoners for a living, then became a corporate executive and CEO. So, if anything, I guess I'd be more of a skeptic than, you know, than anything else. And I mean it's one thing to be open to the UFO phenomena, and then it's something else to kind of be open to alien abduction, which a lot of people, less people are open to the idea.
Had you really been familiar with that concept even before you had heard from your friend, Yeah, I mean I was familiar with it like most people in a general way because it's it's out there, you know, in the in the public arena, but it's generally out there as a kind of entertainment. So I didn't I didn't really look at it as anything, you know, very serious. I mean, I've had a casual interest like most people
probably would. But this is something really different because if you knew these people and got to know them and met them, this is a fellow who's a career oriented guy. I mean he's running a project for a large construction company that built malls and built shopping centers and things. So I mean he's dealing with lots of employees, directing lots of employees, dealing with a lot of you know, money and deadlines and things. His wife was a sort of
college graduate all state football player. The wife is a mother of two with a third third child that you expecting at that time. So you really couldn't ask for more stable people. I mean, very classic, upwardly mobile, college educated, career oriented. The last thing in the world people like that want is something that takes them off the track that they've been almost bred to be on. It derails everything, everything that they thought mattered in life.
So when you first met them, what was your mindset like? Were you really skeptical or had your friend convinced you that at that point where you really open to it when you first met that, Well, my friend is like again, a very one of the more stable guys I know, hard working. By the way, now it works for Oracle and executive up an Oracle. So this is no lightweight. It is a more than stable I would say, you know, one of the backbone of the country kind of guys.
Success, highly successful, nice family, all all of those things. So if he tells you this is my best friend, if he tells you we played football together in college, and believe me, this guy has you know, he's telling the truth. He has no reason in the world he doesn't want to tell people. He confide it in me. You've got to say, well, obviously something happened to these people. What was it?
So what was that first meeting? Like, did you go to their house and your friend was like, hey, tell them about your alien thing? Well, I mean it was That's pretty funny because I didn't just you know, go there for a couple of hours or something. I've spent a couple of days there, and you know, we started with a dinner to sort of break the ice and warm things up. And I think they probably were as skeptical of me as I was of them, And you know, I
think they trusted me, and I believe them. And what I came from on this was I don't know what happened to you, but something incredible happened to you, And no matter where it leads, it's a hell of a story. Now in the book is the story, it says based on or inspired by. So is the book fictionalized version of their events of what happened? No, actually almost. I won't say all of it, but I would say eighty percent of it has come from transcripts and tapes directly written.
Some of the chronology has changed around just because you know, if you've ever written a story, sometimes sometimes the chronology you have to change a little bit or or it gets very complicated. So things like that, I changed the names of the principles, Tom and Elise Gifford, those are pseudonyms, and I changed the names of their children, you know, for privacy reasons. Other than that, it's a true story. It's a true story, straightforward.
So what did they tell you? How did their events, these strangeness start for them? This is again what makes us so credible is but I think everybody can imagine themselves doing exactly what they did pretty much. So here's a couple that you know, have two children, two young children. Let's say one five I believe in the other maybe you know one and a half. So the mother, the mother you know, wants wants to get out
of the house and uh, you know, have a good time. She's sort of been stuck with children and just wants to be around adults and have some fun. The husband is an avid hunter and a year before before he had missed a mule deer. A shot at a mule deer, and his father and his brother gave him quite a hard time about it, and being the competitive guy that he was, he wanted to go back out into the Mahabi and track that mule deer and bag it. So they had two conflicting
sort of goals here. What they decided to do was compromise. So the husband Tom told his wife all these look, let's go to a place called Whiskey Pete where they had been. There's live music, you know, great bands. We'll have a couple of drinks, we'll dance, we'll have a good time. We'll take our camper and then we'll go and we'll do my hunting and you know, you can do some mountain climbing, you can, you know, scope things out while I hunt, and we'll both do what
we want to do. So they did go to Whiskey Pete and they were going to camp at a place called mid Hills Campsite. But when they got there, unusual for the time, all of the sites were taken, so they were sort of stuck. So Tom, who was very familiar with the desert, said, look, it's dark, it's off road, it's kind of desolate, but I know this area like the back of my hand.
I've been hunting there with my father and brother for years. So let's go and you know, we'll cook up some steaks and you know, there's some stargazing and have a romantic evening and then I'll do my honting and we leave. We leave the next day. So that was the plan. But when they're roasting their marshmallows, after they have their steak, they're stargazing, and of course then the desert it's, you know, brilliantly cleared, and they
see these particularly shiny stores. For Tom, who was sort of an expert on configurations and whatnot, is identifying this configuration of stars in that and Eliza's wife said, well what about these what is that one? And what started to happen is these bright shiny orbs in the horizon form a configuration of an M, a giant M. And Tom is a little bit stunned at that
because obviously it's no configuration of stars. So they start to guess what it might be, And of course they guess that maybe it's some sort of military exercise. Maybe these are some kind of craft that are up there, because they're starting to communicate with one another, they're blinking in something that looks like code. Then maybe I can actually read a quote to you. Sure, it's just from Tom Gifford when we first saw them dropping, because these things
then start to drop from the sky. When we first saw them dropping from the sky, we thought it was some kind of military maneuver, maybe for Operation Desert Storm. But it was too massive even for that. I mean, there were hundreds of them folding then rushing toward us. So I kicked out the campfire, grabbed my gun, and ran into the back of the camper with the leaves. There we sat Indian style, waiting until they came. Hundreds of them, hundreds of pairs of tiny red eyes glowing in the
dark around us. Wow, harrowing. Yeah, that's pretty terrifying. Now. And about what year this was? In the late eighties, then this would have been October eighty nine, And so what did they remember next? Well, I'll tell you that probably the best place to go is to is to the book itself, because I have, you know, some quotes that we can go to. But basically what happens is there's actually different kinds of
beings that they encounter, and the first kind of a maltlin. They're small, they're sort of raucous, and these are the red eyed sort of creatures. But then they're surrounded by these illuminated figures and there's some really very vivid descriptions of those beings. And what happens then is a huge craft hovers over them. And when I say huge, I mean the size of a football field. And while that's happening and these illuminated figures are circling them, Tom
tries to leave. He tries to go for his gun, but they're jolted by electric shocks when they moved forward and try to escape, so literally they're held captive there. And then they go through something that could only be I guess classified it as a kind of torture. You So, but these things were outside of the camper, that's right. As a matter of fact, they pulled the curtain shut, but they were shining like white light, and so it didn't matter if the curtains were shut at first. When these things
started falling. They thought the Russians were invading. They thought it was like a world war or something. Wow, and so there and then he tried to open and go outside of the campra when he was shocked. Yeah, Actually what happened was there were these two sort of I don't know what to say, monitors, let's call them, and sort of like holographs, holograms.
And so when they moved forward afoot, the holograms would move forward, and they were electrified, so if they moved too close they would get jolted. And they realized they were just trapped. There. I have a little section here. The sky above them, Their entire nighttime sky was now filled
with hundreds of shiny objects, flashing signals to one another. Together, they sat, holding each other two fight and to move too, frightened, until it began slowly at first, like parachutes, floating free falling downward gracefully. So they stared, captivated by the prospects as dozens, no hundreds, of the glowing white objects traveled like falling stars across the sky. Oh my god, sc screamed the leaves. It's the Russians. The Russians are invading.
No Tom comforted, scrambling to his feet. It can't be get in the truck. I'll put out the fire and they won't see us. Alize hesitated, He shoved her get in the truck. The lights were landing now, he observed landing all over the valley. The lights were landing. His frantic mind processed and coming towards them with the to me, Tom grabbed a lad who just sat there staring, and jerked her to her feet. They're coming to get us, she muttered, entranced. There's no road, no roads
out there. Tom said, as much to himself as to her. But they're still coming at us. He looked to his wife, who had lapsed into a state of shock, then took her by the hand as he raced around to the truck's cab, grabbing his twelve gage ethic, a shotgun, seven milimeters Browning rifle, and a hunting vest looped with dozens of rounds of AMMA. At the end of the at the end of this telepathically, they're just told get in the truck. If you try to fight us, we'll
kill you. Did he ever try to fire any of his guns? No, he couldn't, as you know, as it happened. They just both became kind of entranced and wound up in the back of the camper. When you say they were tortured, where did they feel that then they were taken on board the craft or did this torture happen while they were in the truck?
Did it all kind of take place at end? Well. One of the things that makes this so unique, I believe, is that I don't know of anything where for an extended eight hours, eight conscious hours, two individuals are looking at each other, describing spacecrafts, describing the aliens themselves, the different kinds of aliens, pinching themselves. Do you see this? Yes,
I see it? What do you see now? Comparing notes moment to moment, they thought they were going to have heart attacks, and when they got to the verge of a feeling like they were going to have a heart attack, a kind of mist filled the truck and calmed them like a kind of anesthesia. This is what a Leeds Giffert says. They wanted everything.
We had everything, our minds, our bodies, even our souls. I think it was like they drew it out of us with a syringe, every molecule and it was painful, and I thought we were going to die or had already died and were being tortured in hell. Yeah, strange because it seems like kind of a non physical kind of torture in some ways. Well, actually it was both. What happened was they were made to relive experiences.
For example, I don't want to get into this too mile, but there was a molestation of one of the principal characters when she was a child, and made to relive that moments of exaltation, moments of horror, moments of everything like they were really living it. And the purpose, it seemed, was to see what the reactions would be emotionally, to pull from them an understanding of how human emotions work. And so when at they were taken to the craft, how did that happen? Yeah, that's really one of
the more fascinating things. Maybe I can read you a little bit about the craft itself or something like that, right, Yeah. The craft was larger than anything they ever imagined, could fly more than a football field in diameter and shaped like a disc with an elevated dome that rose up from its center. It was encircled by brilliant white lights flashing in what appeared to be coordinated,
coated rhythms. Together, they watched in awe stunned as the huge craft shot a probe perhaps two hundred feet in diameter, down to the ground, then began transporting objects both into and out of the spacecraft. From the discs underbelly hung six smaller units, the size of helicopters and designed like miniature versions of the mother craft that suddenly became visible. All of this happening right before
their eyes, and it was overwhelming. Do you see it too, Tom asked, yes, the big ship with six others suspended from it, her mouth buried in the flesh of his shoulder, the tunnel of light beaming objects up and down again, she nodded, named the objects. They're patterns of things more than actual physical objects, things like plants and cattle, cactus and
trees, anything else. She paused long enough to observe a pattern of red, amber and white lights in the form of a triangle, emanating from the ship, then breaking loose from it, moving carefully methodically across the desert basin. She nodded, Yes, there's a triangle of lights, with the tip of the triangle touching down on the ground. It seems to be combing the ground beneath the disc, as if searching for something. She shook her head
to clear it. Do you hear the rumbling deep inside the ground, the triangles like a drill, a huge drill of some kind. Strange? Huh mm hmm. So yeah, it's really strange, to say the least. Uh yeah. So, and this is all stuff that they remembered consciously, that's correct. So when you did that hypnosis, was that too? Were there instances later in their lives where they didn't remember something or what was the
purpose of that? There were There were actually four hours of missing time when they were actually on the craft, and some of that is the most compelling and most I don't know, carroling information you could imagine, I think. And then how was it that they were transported onto the craft? Did they remember that? Yeah? Basically there was this light, this beam that beamed them up and it sucked up other things too. But eventually they wound up
there and a kind of holding cell with other things. But they were examined physically and during the during the hypnosis sessions, I mean, they were it was really quite traumatic. What did the beings that they encounter to look like yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me let me get to a section that really describes at least one of them. This was an encounter that they had. As I mentioned, this went on after the event itself, and Eli's Giffert, during the hypnotic sessions, kept scratching at her, at her at
her neck, and so doctor Anixeer said why are you doing that? And she said, I can't talk about it. So he kept pressing, but in a way that was subtle. Finally she said, probes, that's how they watch us, that's how they track us. They know everything we're doing, they know when we're doing it, they know how we're doing it.
So here's a description. And this comes from an event that happened weeks after, several weeks after the actual It was four weeks later, in the dead of early morning that dreams recurred with an intensity unlike any of the others in his Tom saw himself once again back in the camper, trapped and screaming while the illuminated creatures encircled him. He was screaming, but there was no sound, and then he saw a flashing image. It was of a long,
narrow tunnel with lights running along the sides. But then it was gone again, and then he saw a being who was all white, the color of the tunnel light. Again he saw a flashing image, and it was of several beings like that they were trying to restrain him. Then the vision was gone and only the first figure remained. So these are the emerging subconscious things that had been suppressed that are coming out in dreams. They come out in
vivid detail in the hypnosis sessions. But here's a description. Then the vision was gone and only the first figure remained. The being is four feet tall. He wears a white lumine uniform with an upturned arrow on the chest. He has no facial features, no mouth or lips, only slits. He passes directly through the wall. He stands behind the headboard. He stays there, passes his three long fingers over Eliza's face over and over. Tom can only see the hand. He opens his eyes, and directly above him is
the face of the white being. You're dreaming, he hears the voice say. Then he looks to Elise's face and sees the burn marks its fingers have left. Hey, wait a minute, Tom says aloud. This is no dream. He turns to Dawn and gasps. He was awake. He knew he was awake. And Dawn had the burn marks all over her face. When like this incident happened, did they go to the doctor to have those burn marks checked out? They did, Actually, they took photographs of it. Mm hmm. Wow. And so yeah, I mean, all of
these sound like very terrifying experiences. Yeah, here's what another this comes from the tapes. This is the doctor speaking. Take a deep breath, let your mind search, let their memory come back on its own. Then speak out and share it with us. Take your time. This is me, my wife and I on the edge of our seats in anticipation. Already anexter had established they were inside the ship at the time they fell asleep. At
last, Tom Gifford spoke. His face was a mask of concentration. His vision was hazy for the period, though obviously he was struggling to see it. I see bright, bright, blinking lights. I'm on my back, encircled by people looking at me. I see their outlines in the light, strange shadows, but it's so bright. Go on, persisted anixter. Take a deep breath, let it out, and see if you can remember more. I'm fighting, fighting, and resisting them. In the camper, Tom
has suddenly agitating. Elise is grasping from my hand as she's being pulled away. They're white, white all over, and I'm fighting. He throws his head to one side. I want to remember things about that, but the memories don't seem concrete, more like images. Suddenly, Elise's voice rings out with a volume in hysteria that sets our teeth on edge bug eyes. She screams. Anexter swings around to her, say more, it's one of the white ones, she says, perplexed, then in a panic voice, can't
move. I'm just scared, she begins crying. I want to go home now. She weeps, her chest heaving as terror rises up inside her. Long fingers. She adds, suddenly tense as she sees it. There's three around my face, almost touching, but not touching. What's on the other side of the fingers anixter Prod's light, white white light. I remember this hallway all lit up in blue lights, even in the ground. I guess
I'm walking, but it doesn't feel like I'm walking. Go on, It's like a tunnel, long, no room, just a long tunnel of lights until finally there's an opening. Who are you with the white guy? Where is your husband? I don't know where he is, she moans. I can feel him in my mind, though, I feel I'm linked to him. Big head, real white. I can't tell what they're made of, like skin so translucent it glows, but you can't see veins and things.
She strains to see. I guess he's wearing a shiny covering too. I don't know what kind of material that is. She hesitates. I see something on his chest. It's like an arrow, just the top of an arrow. What else? Three fingers and a thumb, really shiny, really long. I just hate his eyes so dark you can't even see them, can't see the parts, like our eyes. They're big. Then go skinny at
the end. That tiny nose, practically just two holes, little tiny mouth, but I don't think there are teeth or even lips, a little chin, no hair, skinny body like a five year old's my height. What happened is at this point? What does he say or do? I'm supposed to just lie on the table. It's okay. I don't know why he keeps looking in my eyes. He puts his finger on my face, just like he did at home that time when he burned me. So these experiences
do they continue to this day? They've abated, they continued for some period of time. And really, what at least the annextra thought was lack a pow. You know, if you've had a really traumatic experience, it doesn't just go away. It's like an explosion in a tunnel or in a cave. It reverberates. And his theory was that a lot of what happened afterwards was post traumatic stress. So how long did they have actual in the You all can surmised it might be difficult to know for sure, but how long
do you think they were having actual experiences? A couple of years, and all in the early nineties or late eighties into the nineties, late eighties into the nineties. And if you ask them now, they still think it's going on. They still think they're watched. But the psychologist thinks that that could
or psychiatrists thinks it could be post traumatic stress syndrome. Yeah, in the sense that you know, if you hear pipes rattling or doors creaking, you know, if you're really you know, I had this drawing experience, the interpretation of those noises becomes becomes different to someone that's gone through that versus someone that hasn't. These experiences they had were was there any communication beyond just what it seemed to be experimentation or is there any information? Yes, imparted on
them? What was that? This is one of the more stunning sequences, the doctor says, Elise, and this is why she's under hypnosis. Elise, do you have any idea what these beings want or why they're here? It was macabb watching as Leaves sprang up in her chair, suddenly animated and alert. Her voice, rather than soft and emotional, took on a new cadence, which was clipped and direct, quite unlike her. They want to make contact with the population. Tom and I are specimens, imperfect like the
human race. When we're ready to communicate with them face to face, then possibly the world will be two mm hmmm. And now we have to study our reactions so they know hm, oh, go ahead. They have to study our reactions so they know how to approach us. They don't have emotions like ours, so they need us to teach them. They need to understand humans. Do you have a sense as to who they are and where they
come from. There are five galaxies, theirs is the next closest. In order for all five galaxies to work together one day, they have to start, and they are starting with us, so will be united galaxies. What else do you know? I know where the universe ends, she said, rattling the words off in staccato fashion. Is that something you can put into words? Our universe ends where thirs begins. Our universe ends when all its
matter stops mattering to us and start starts mattering to them. Every one in the room looked to one another's, stunned at what they heard and what they were seeing. For now, sitting on the edge of the outer date cushioned arm chair sat alive Gifford, her body rigid and vibrating with new found energy. And were you there? Yeah? I was there? Sure? Huh?
What did it feel like, you know, variancing this chilling m h I mean, did you did you walk away with the sense that somehow you were you know, you had just been a part of a sort of a communication or of information coming from Absolutely. Yeah. It was like it was like being in the presence of a medium and channeling. There's there's a couple of other things that were really interesting, is there? She She doesn't want
to talk about the examination for obvious reasons. So this is something that that you know finally comes out, but but you know it took some some coaxing. But there were other things, Alice, why do you think there are things you don't want to remember? I don't know. Is there something preventing you from sharing what you know? I can't tell you. If these beings
are in contact with you, tell me what you know about them. God created our wor this is so bizarre because can you imagine somebody just off the top of their head, like rattling this off. God created our world in his image, but not theirs she croaked, or any of the others. Are there many different kinds of beings? Yes, different ones, different hybrids. When do you think this communication will happen between the aliens and humans?
I don't know. In my lifetime? How long will you live? The hairs on the back of my neck rays in a normal man's lifetime are children's? She said? At last, it was then that I had the distinct feeling that I was in a chess match of words. Alive had begun to take satisfaction and the cleverness the sharpness of her responses. I tried a new tact. Are we watched as a population regularly? Yes, by many different kinds of beings sent on missions from the One Supreme, said, finishing my
sentence. What does that mean? There's one supreme being that controls all of them? He sends missions here. They're not here of their own accord. This is language she would never use. This is like a president or like a god. She responded, with crackling directness. What else do you know about the One Supreme? The beings could care less if they were here or not, she continued in the same clipped, militant voice. They're just following orders. Where do I take this from here? I asked myself. You
talked about the universe and matter earlier. You said our universe where ends where theirs begin begins our She could complete this now, Our universe ends when its matter stops mattering to us and starts mattering to them. What does that mean? I don't know, she said, simply. The missions these alleys are on. Are they friendly or unfriendly? They're neutral? They could care less. What does the One Supreme want for all? Gaslexies to live harmoniously together.
Do we have a separate god from the One Supreme? No? What else do you know about this entity? Is it a being? Like the others read the Bible? Do they know about our project? Sure? That something hmmm really weird? I know, I know, I know. So they felt did they feel themselves? I mean they've they felt traumatized, no doubt by all of this, Like they still feel traumatized by it. Well,
this is the thing, I mean, I i'd matter. You know, it's difficult to talk about things, even for me to talk about it, let alone them. But I mean they were you know, they were probed and you know, sexually dealt with and uh and like animals, like animals in a laboratory, and yeah, did it leave them traumatized? Yeah? It left them traumatized? Mm hmm. I mean did they take away
any positive anything positive from these experiences? That one of the one of the really you know, I say about this book, it's like a crack in the wall, you know, and like let's say we're living us in a kind of room. This is a crack in the room the wall that that just appeared for a short period of time, that gave you an insight that
gives you an insight to what's outside the room. And there were different kinds of beings, as I mentioned to you, the sort of malevolent ones, the red eyed, sort of monstrous little ones that were clearly raucous and malevolent, et cetera. The sort of intelligent, illuminated beings that were like scientists that seemed very determined to find out what makes human beings tick. When they were at their worst, when when things were in a kind of frenzy and
they were hysterical and they really thought they were going to die. After hours of this, a kind of angelic presence, definitely feminine, swirled onto the scene, not a face or anything like a presence, a female, a feminine presence like a Marriyan visitation, and said, don't worry, you will survive this. This will be over soon. And it had a tremendous calming effect. They called this this being a sort of comforter. But it almost
takes on a kind of religious flavor in an odd way. And one wonders is if through that crack you're seeing another realm of existence that's a kind of order, you know, of different sorts of beings, or if this was a way to extract more emotions from them, because probably in their minds, in yours in mind, whether we know it or not, are religious figures angels, the Mary and you know, the Mother Mary, whatever might be God, and maybe these things were drawn from them and used to find out
how they reacted. Because if these beings wanted to communicate in mass with the human population and figure out what form to take or what methodology to use, they sure want to know what people found comforting, what people found horrifying, what people found amusing. Do you see what I mean right now? Since you've gotten involved with all of this, have you also then looked at the
research of other people who have looked into the alien abduction phenomenon. You know, it's one of those things where I don't know, you sort of get sucked into it, you know. I mean, this is something that you know, in certainly changed my life too. So I won't say that every day I rushed to the library the internet to see the latest one this or that. But yeah, no, I've become a sort of aficionado. I suppose of these stories and find you find a great similarity. For example,
and here I'll give you an insight that I think is unusual. If you go back to Betty and Barney Hill, this would be in the nineteen sixties. I believe, interracial couple. You know, professional guy. I think his wife is a teacher and maybe he was an insurance broker or something. Anyway, business suit kind of fellow wife. It's a teacher, you know, stable people. Again, they had this encounter where they had missing time,
so they saw a UFO it covered above them. They look at their watch, They look at their watch when they're back in their car, and you know four hours have passed. They go to a doctor, they're hypnotized, and they recover an experience not so unlike the Gifferts, minus this incredible detail, this conscious detail, et cetera. So there are a lot of stories like where a person says they were abducted and you have to be you
know one who write there's one person and this is what they say. But once you deal with more than one person, and once you deal with people that consciously deal with something, I think that thirty years ago or whenever this happened, forty with the with the couple I described, I think that things have come a long long way since then, and the curtain is open a lot more than it was, And I think this is kind of a huge
step forward towards whatever communication is going to happen. If you think about the early stories of UFOs, there are pictures like you know, in the Himalayas or something, you'd see a disc shaped object black and white. But now you know. fIF Simpson, the governor of Arizona, talks about seeing a craft the size of a football field hover overhead while he's playing with his child in a playground and then take off at tremendous speed along with a thousand others
in Phoenix, Arizona. So these experiences now that were once little glimpses are now full blown experiences. And I can't think of a more full blown experience than the one the Mojave incident describes. So somebody's happening. It's certainly moving towards a much more full view of spacecraft of encounters. I think it's something like fifteen million people say they've been abductive. I mean, these are big numbers. You see. Airline pilots Jimmy Carter reported seeing a UFO. Ronald
Reagan Air Force one reported seeing a UFO. You know, you have policemen, you have airplane pilots, you have air force, you know, fighter pilots. So what you're seeing now are not subtle things? Do you know they're not subtle? How did people react when you share that you know what the subject of your book is about, and that it's not just fiction that you believe, you know that there's are real experiences people went through. I promise you this really happened to them. I mean, it's no doubt in
my mind. And how do people when you tell people that, how do they react? Well, you know, I'm lucky. I'm lucky because you know, I'm fairly well educated. You know, I have a doctorate, I ran a company. You know, I'm a chemistry you know, in chemistry. So in the industry manufacturing cars and such. Some of these are hard boiled industry. That was a cop for God's sake. So it's not like you know, you're a guy that you know is homeless somewhere and you
know you have a bottle of wine in your back pocket. And and so I think a lot like the difference when you start putting you know, policemen together and pilots from United airlines together and presidents together. I mean, clearly
something's going on here. And the reason I ask is that it does seem that the public is getting more and more comfortable with the idea of UFOs, but the alien abduction thing still seems to kind of be placed in a corner and not confronted as largely except for you know, in our circles and amongst the researchers, which is interesting, even though, like you say, if it's not millions, it's at least hundreds of thousands of people. It's definitely
millions. Well I don't know. If I couldn't, I would say at least it's it's thousands, if not hundreds of thousands at least that are claiming to have these experiences, which is no small number and no small phenomenon. Right. So it's interesting though that still people just can't seem to accept or even go there. But you know, you know, this is a funny thing too. I have a degree in English, and I have a doctorate in Arts and Letters and an MBA, so I deal with business people all
the time. And you know, I have to tell you I just retired recently in June to right full time and teach. But in dealing with business people, people that have mortgages, large mortgages, they work. Their wives work. Maybe she's an attorney, he's a business guy, maybe vice versa. They work eighty hours a week, they've got a mortgage, They pay their taxes, they buy groceries, they take their kids to Little league. They don't want to hear about this stuff. Shoot, I mean, yeah,
they don't want to hear about it because their life is set. They're on a kind of track. And I found in business the most funny thing to me is how such intelligent people as these, I mean, with really high IQs and whatnot, have so little imagination. M Well, unless it's your career and you're working in a creative field, imagination, I guess can be a detriment to many people in their careers. Well. Well, actually, I have to say, if there's a quality that I always look for
in business people, it was resourcefulness. Yeah. Yeah, And I think you make a good point though, because a lot of people are always asking why is that the case? You know, there's a lot of interesting cases when it comes to UFOs. There's a lot of credible people talking about abduction, but people just don't seem to care. I'll give you a very good example that's very concrete. I had my son who's now thirty, but when he was a teenager, early, you know, adolescent, let's say fourteen,
a cover of Time magazine was about lines lines disease. My son was. We live in in a rural area and so camping and things like that, you know, is part of what we do. And limes disease was really, I will say, had epidemic proportions, but there are a lot of people that had limes disease. It was a cover of Time magazine. So my son was doing terribly. Here's a bright guy, all suddenly he's getting d's and f's. He's walking around the house like an old man.
I mean, basically his frame is bent over, racked in pain. And we're very concerned, of course. So one day he's so frustrated he's flunking all his classes. He punches his fist through the wall. Now do you know what that takes for a fourteen fifteen year old kid. In frustration, he goes Dad, I'm sick. Every day I go I wake up sick, and I go to bed sick all day. I'm tired. I bring him to the doctor personally. Now, now it got serious, I'd take
a couple of days off. I say, we're going to put you through a GI series whatever tests. You know, just can't go. I meet with a doctor and I said, and in the office lobby is the Time magazine about lin line disease? I said, do you think you know we live in near you know, in the woods. Is it possible that he has lime disease? Because I don't believe in limes disease? Wow? Of course my son had had lime disease for a year. It affected his nervous
system. He had to take mature, you know, a medication through a stint in his wrist directly, you know, intervenously to get this out of his system because it had gone so deep. But can you imagine a doctor looked at the cover of Time magazines. So I don't believe. I don't believe in it. I don't believe in lime disease. And then you talk about Bellian abductions. Do you see what I mean? Yeah? Yeah,
we have a gentleman speaking at our next UFO Congress, our conference. We have out here is a former professor of sociology and he's going to address that very issue. He calls us talk about hidden events, but other instances in the past where something that we know now is a reality was denied in how science and mainstream media dealt with those issues as the discoveries came forward and as people had to admit that these things they denied in the past were realities.
Well, look at John Mack from Harvard. You're familiar maybe with his book? Yeah, oh yeah, he yeah. Well, I mean here's a guy that, I mean pretty much ruined his career, an incredibly well respected Harvard professor, the doctorate, etc. Renowned professor examined the subject and said, I believe in Daly alien abduction. This is a real and true phenomenon. Wrote a five hundred page book about it, and really, I mean it was met with a deafening silence. Right, yeah, exactly, So
thank you so much. We're pretty much out of time. The book is called Mohave Incident. Is the best place for people to get it on Amazon? Or is there somewhere else you would recommend people go? Well, I mean I always like to support local bookstores, Okay, So I mean what I would say is that if they don't have it at your local bookstore, independent bookstore. Just just ask them to order it and I'm sure they will.
You have it in a day or two. Amazon, of course, you can order it right now and be in your house in a day or two. Barnes and Noble, at the stores or at the internet outlets, so it's it's very accessible. And by the way, you can buy it on my website too if you like. It's Ron Felber Ron F E. L B. E. R. Felber dot com so www dot Ronflber dot com. Okay, all right, well, thank you so much much for
coming on and telling us about this super fascinating story. It's always interesting to hear about, you know, more and more of these cases, and to hear them from someone like you that has such an interesting background and perspective on all of this. So thank you very much. There's absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much to Ron for being on the show. Really interesting stuff. So you guys are going to have to get this book. It's called
The Mojave Incident. Like you said, it's published by Barricade Books. You can find it on Amazon, or like Ron had mentioned, there's several other places you can find it, so check it out and let us know what you think. So good luck to Ron so again, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you also to Martin for being on the show and making some time while he's traveling to come and join us and tell
us about some news. You know, there's actually a little more news I wanted to share with you all, and that is a story I wrote just late last week about Travis Walton. So everybody loves to hear about Travis Walton. What is Travis up to? Oh, Travis is so great, and he is great. He's a buddy of mine. I mean, I just got to he was going through town and he stayed over the house with me and my girlfriend and we got to meet and ketch up on a lot of
stuff. And he's just a fascinating person. But I wrote a story. He's got this November event coming up. It's the fortieth anniversary of the incident. So on the incident happened on November fifth, So this event happening this year is going to also start on November fifth. And this is kind of cool because one of the people he's gonna have is Chuck Ellison. And Chuck Ellison was the first deputy sheriff that Travis Walton's coworkers spoke to. So if
you remember the story with Travis Walton, he's a logger. He's out there logging. Him and his buddies get ready, it's about dusk to go home, and they see a bright light in the forest. They go investigate that forest or that light, and they find this hovering craft, you know, just above the trees in this clearing kind of area. Travis being a knucklehead, and I think he was the youngest guy, but he jumps out of the car and goes over there, trying to be cool, and then he
decides the way he says it, he actually was crouched down. He was getting up, and because he decided, he got to go back to the truck, and the guys were yelling for him, what are you doing get back here, and he got beamed by something, flew many feet and so the guy thought he was dead. They thought he was just shot by something and he was dead. So they took off. Soon after they left after
this were you know a little bit of a distance away. They decided we better go back and see if Travis is you know, work, go get his body. At that point, So they go back. They're really freaked out, like extremely freaked. I mean, if your friend had died, you would imagine And this is the reason I'm saying this is is just a second, because of course this is all alleged anecdotal information from these people.
So they go back and Travis is gone. They decide they better call the police, So they go into town, get to a phone call the police. The police say, we're gonna have you know, I guess it was, and this is where we're going to get some details because I think it might have been Chuck Ellison's wife that they got a hold of first. But you know, this isn't documented anywhere that I know of, So this is
gonna be fun to hear from Chuck and ask him the details. His wife, I think, is going to be there to you, so we'll be able to ask her. But anyway, Chuck decided said I'll meet you guys at the parking lot up the street of this shopping mall kind of area, and Ken Peterson was one of the loggers who was there. Hopefully he'll be able to make it, but there there will be other witnesses. Not everyone has confirmed, but Ken Peterson is going to try, from what I understand,
if he can. But Ken Peterson was the one who called the police, and he didn't want to tell them what had happened because he thought, oh, they're gonna not believe us, and they won't even come out here to check it out. So Chuck Ellison comes out. They tell Chuck Travis is missing. We need to get some people out here, we need to find him. And he says, well, what happened. Then the guys described, you know, the whole thing to him, and of course Chuck
was, well, surprisingly I guess he was. He was kind of open to it. He knew these guys and and he says that at least there's intoations at and he's made a few comments but not much in the past, that these guys were, you know, really distraught to the level I guess as you should be if if you saw what you thought might have been your friend being killed in front of you so or colleague. So they were really freaked out. So we took them seriously and they did the investigation and the
rest is history. Read Travis's book or go look at our story at open Minds TV because I embedded a UFO Congress talk that Travis did for us a few years ago where he talks about the entire incident, and we have this online on YouTube for free. And if you go to open Minds dot tv and look at this story about the first police officer on the scene to speak at the Travis Walton fortieth event, you'll see you'll be able to watch that entire thing, So go check it out. It's going to be really interesting
to hear from Chuck Ellison. There will be other witnesses like Chuck who haven't spoken publicly or in a public form like this before, so it's going to be a unique and fun event. So check out that posting and hopefully you can make it. I'll be mceing, so I'll also be hosting these panels, so I'll be doing the questioning and getting to the to the bottom and
the heart of all of this interesting stuff. So no doubt there will be, you know, forty some years later, there'll be some more information for the public that has not been heard before. That's what's so interesting about this case. You have so many witnesses and now as the years have gone by, you know, with Open Minds, we've been able to at the Congress, get some of the witnesses who hadn't spoken before, and being able to
see the behind the scenes and how these guys interact. It's very much like how people would interact, I think if they had truly experienced the things. Not one interaction between these guys has indicated to me that there's any false, you know, claims going on, and these guys struggle with things. Of course, this is gonna hurt you or affect you emotionally, and they do have these effects. These guys aren't always the best of friends. They're not
all best buddies there. They are acquaintances and deal with each other as such. Some of them know each other more than others. But my point here is just that it's not like these guys are bound by a secret or seem to be bound by secrets or anything. They're just individuals living their lives, all dealing with what they experienced in different ways, with different perceptions about what had happened, but all agreeing that this happened, that this craft of some
sort was there in the forest, their buddy. They almost got blamed for murdering Travis because people didn't want to believe. Of course, there was an extraterrestrial or some strange craft there. Of course, it's an assumption that it's extraterrestrial, so it's really weird stuff. But it's gonna be a great event. So that's gonna be really fun and really excited about that. But yeah, I wanted to share that. But other than that, we do have
some videos and pictures online. Roger Marsho's the director of communications for Moofon, is just doing a great job getting into unsolved and you know, closed cases for Moufon, largely where they determined they couldn't determine what it was the witness had seen, so really interesting stuff there at the sided Openminds dot TV. As for the UFO Congress, like I told you guys earlier, we've got a lot of cool stuff, but we're going to have kind of, you
know, a couple citizen hearing type of things because it was exciting. So if you're not aware of that, this citizen hearing for disclosure was a couple of years ago and it was a mock kind of hearing that was hosted by Steven Bassett. But Stephen Bassett wasn't the only guy who put this event on. So we're going to have some of the other guys. Just because we gave Stephen Bassett an award, we heard what he had to say about all of this, but now we want to hear from some of the other people
involved. So we're going to have Ruben Langdon. He was a guy who helped produce the whole thing, and he has edited along with Jeremy Corbel, who you guys have heard on the show, but he they've edited together all the video footage for the entire thing, and so they're going to be there to show some of the best footage and to talk about this and to talk about a future project they have related to this that you all can help with that you all can be in on a bit. So they're going to be
talking about that. But we're also going to have one of those congressmen who was skeptical who showed up and was like, Okay, what are these goofballs gonna tell me? You know? And he says, you know, some of them were goofballs that he heard from, but he says a lot of them weren't, and a lot of them were very convincing, and he wants to talk about how and why he was convinced that this is a real phenomena and what needs to be done going forward regarding government secrecy in this arena when
it comes to UFO. So terribly interesting. This is going to be unique, and this is great. We're really excited about that. So he's going to do his own lecture and he's going to participate in some panels. So and this is Congressman Cook, who was a representative from Utah. So he's in the House of Representatives and we're really excited about that. But let alone a lot of other great people we're gonna have on Greenwald. We're going to have Oh this is funny. Okay, one more thing I know I'm going
on, but Chase Kletzky. So you guys know we've had her on the show. She's a move On investigator and she's kind of even got her own move On investigation team with move On, and that's new. Actually since we interviewed her, I believe so well. I know so because interestingly I interviewed her at the Travis Walton event. At that time, she wasn't with mouf
On because she had been with Moufon but she left it move On. But like soon after the Travis Walton conference, you know last year where he had kind of this pre conference kind of thing out there in November last year, you know, there was another event where Chase was and she got to speaking with Jan Harzan, the director of move On, and she ended up going back with Moufon. Anyway, you may have noticed this. She's out in
Australia doing talks about UFOs and she's got all these news stories. Australia loves Chase Kletzky because they're writing all these news stories about Chase and this important UFO investigator and how she thinks we're about to crack the case. You know, soon we're all going to know what's more about what's going on and there'll be less secrecy. So really interesting, and she's going to be speaking at the UFO Congress as well. We have I don't know, we've got a lot
of exciting stuff we've got. I think this is kind of funny dueling PhDs. We have a professor of history who's going to talk about the bad Aliens, and of course this is David Jacobs who's done a lot of research into this field. But then we have a director, a professor, a retired professor of journalism who's going to say the opposite. He's going to say, no, I think that they're all pretty good and they're here to help us. So kind of like our interview today, you know, is it good,
is it bad? Is it somewhere in between? I mean, I don't know what the heck's going on here, people, but it sure is curious. That's why I like trying to find out. So we've got a lot of really interesting stuff. Go to ufocongress dot com to check that out. Be sure to res you reserve your room asap because I think it up here's we're gonna sell out of rooms earlier than usual because we just have it's a popular conference, and really there's limited space at this conference. I mean
it's a one. There's no other place like this where you've got this beautiful hotel, you know, a top of the line hotel where the richie riches go to play golf and whatever. Where we've got the rooms down to like less than half off so it's affordable. And everybody in this beautiful location hanging out on all the tables and the beautiful outdoor spaces are all UFO people.
So there are all of these conversations everywhere going on about this topic all the way from your nuts and bolts to you know, the more fringe type of topics. And then amongst all of these are some of your favorite researchers and authors in this field. You know, Travis is always there again, you know now a regular are Kathleen Martin and Stanton Friedman. Even if they're not speaking, they come to just be there and to talk with their fellow researchers
and to talk with interested people in the public. So that's one of those things. We have a lot of researchers who are typically there and authors even if they're not speaking, because it's kind of like the event to get together and to talk and and when can you talk to the community in that sort of way, You can't except for at the UFO Congress. So, I mean, that's what it is. That's what it's always been. That's the legacy that we've tried to continue on, which was created even before we owned
the end rand the event. It's changed hand a few times, but that's that's something we've tried to keep. So anyway, Ufocongress dot Com, go to Openminds dot tv for everything else. We've got updates on the Puerto Rico case at open mindstat tv and on the new UFO Report. Go to open minds doat tv if you want to get our email newsletters where we keep you up to date on all the latest news and everything via email. You'll find a box in the upper right hand corner on openminds dot tv where you can
do that. I want to thank Caleb Haigs for the opening end closed music. You can find him on the radio page at openminds dot tv a link to the clerk chronicles where he posts his spectacular music. And I want to also thank you because you guys are awesome. It's and I want to thank you. You guys are awesome. It is always great to see you guys at some of these events we get to. Honestly, I'm gonna be at less of these events, not because i want to, just because other things
in my life are kind of pressing. And really, you know, I'm gonna be speaking at the UFO Congress and I'm gonna I'm gonna try to limit myself. You know, we have our own stellar event. I should just be speaking at our event because it's awesome. So if you want to hear Alejandro Rojas and some of my interesting lectures. And you know, I'm fairly humble guy. I am pretty humble compared to many others. But I really like my lectures. You know, I've been doing this for many many years,
writing stories pretty much every day on this topic. Every story I delve and I do research. So some of the favorite information I've come across over the years I've compiled into different lectures that I've been doing around and so I've had to start to turn down lecture requests. Uh, And I so appreciate people who ask me. It's just that I've my life is really busy. I got open minds to deal with an other things. So uh, come to the Congress if you want to see some stuff or and uh anyway,
but it's still wonderful to see you guys when I get a chance. We will bet be at mouf On in a month and we'll see some of you there. But otherwise, thanks so much for listening everybody. You guys are awesome, and UH, it's a great pleasure to be able to talk to you all on a weekly basis. You have a wonderful week, and we do have a guest scheduled, so we will be back next week Audios moo tuttos your motionless sound glass