All right, welcome everyone to Rojas Report. I am Alejandro Rojas, the host of the show, and of course the interviews with my special guests that I do through the Rojas Report part of the podcast. So if you're a podcast subscriber on on Patreon, you'll get these audios. If you on Podbean, you have to do the subscription to get the interviews. Otherwise you just
get the Fridays updates and of quoting us on YouTube. You can watch these interviews live and I keep them up for a few days before I put them archive on YouTube and you can join click Sutton down there to be able to watch all these videos with a lot of the main people that are involved with all of this, Chris Melon, Luel Azando and all these people. But there's somebody who recently got more interviews and better inns with more of these people
in this amazing documentary, and that is James Fox. I talked to him now out his documentary The Phenomenon. Welcome mister Fox. Hey, great to be here. Wonderful. I can see you've got the UFO lift. Oh you can see it? Yeah, let mean the screen. Yeah, I like that. I fell victim to that. I love my UFO lamp, but shot a video with the theme music of uh X fox right, let's had some fun with it, and I posted it on Facebook and somehow the owners of that lamp, you know, the manufacturers, they were like,
hey, we really liked this video you shot of our lip. Can we use it as a promo? I said, yeah, we're out there. There's a promo of that lift you know that I shot, just having some public a. Yeah, there are several these makers claiming to be the original of the lamp, but who knows. But yeah, it's a super fun lamp. And it's funny because I don't have shot. Where's the limp, where's the lip? Where's the UFO lamp? They just love the UFO lamp. In fact, I haven't had a comment on the UFO lamp yet,
but thanks for bringing up glad you like it fun. But so for years now, which is typical of you, you're always working on something, But for years now, you've been working on this amazing film, you know the phenomenon. We didn't even know the title of the film for a long time and it's finally out and I think, you know, it was well worth it. In my opinion, loved it, and we were just talking about
this that you know, there could be some buzz out there. And I think most of my listeners, because I've been talking about it for so long and plus you've been on We've done some interviews during this time, that people
get this idea that it's stuff that I've seen before and it's not. I mean, and I guess that's my first question, is that even though maybe they've heard of some of these cases, maybe even let's say they've heard of all these cases, you've got a ton of original footage, and I'm guessing most of that's never been seen before. I knew that ultimately where we were going with this film, and that is the Rua Zimbabwe landing case nineteen ninety
four. When I first heard about it in the nineties, not only did I not believe it, but I dismissed it so quickly. I didn't look into it again until for ten years. Wow. And I know, right because my whole philosophy at the time was, and I was making the documentary on UFOs, there's no way a broad light a broad daylight sighting could take
place. It could take place with you know, over close to one hundred witnesses that proximity to the landed craft and have face to face contact allegedly with beings potentially from another world, and the whole world don't know about it. It's just you know. And so I've learned to suspend judgment and listen to the evidence and listen to the eyewitness testimony before drawing any conclusions. And so I knew that if I was skeptical of that case, and that's where we
were going, I knew how the general public was going to be. So I had and obviously if we translated the UFO community and got a much broader audience, mainstream audience, there was no way they were going to believe that case occurred, the likeliness of that case having occurred without doing a snapshot historical preview of the phenomenon. And I didn't want to bore my UFO community audience
to death. So I decided if I was going to do that, I had I had to sprinkle a new angles, new archival material, new interviews in with that. For instance, Kenneth Arnold, well, we have an on camera interview with his daughter Kim Arnold. She releases reveals stuff that most people never knew photographs, correspondence with the Air Force, just little things behind the scenes. Nash in Fortenberry. Everybody's heard of that case, right,
How many people have actually seen an interview with William Nash. It's rare as hens teeth and thanks to Tom Tullian and my sister Kelly going after this archive material. Al chop I witnessed testimony in the radar room the night the night of nineteen fifty two in July when the Capitol Building and the White House was buzzed. Hearing his testimony of in the radar room, listening to the pilot's voice as he's rocketing at five to six hundred miles an hour in the pitch
black and gets rounded by unknowns. Hearing that first hand testimony, that was it's unbelievable. You know. So I did sprinkle the nineteen seventy eight United Nations footage, you know, the very man Lee Spiegel. By the way, thank you Lee for all you've done for this film. He put that event on. He'd never seen footage of that event. We have, We found that footage. So there's tons of stuff. I don't care what anybody
says. If I've seen it all you haven't seen it all. You know, that un footage too, and a lot of these and I mentioned this I think in my last like Friday newscast, which was you know, over the years luckily because I got to help a little and you know, being friends with you guys and keeping in the loop. There were so many exciting and tense, crazy moments. Well you guys are trying to gather information, helping where I could, but just you know, different things that were super
exciting. And the un thing was this whole drama about getting those videos and how to obtain those videos. Your your sister then came through hooked it up.
And it's just funny because there's all these behind the scenes drama that happens and then it all culminates, which is exciting and great in just a few minutes if not seconds, you know, in the final movie, but that that footage was able to be obtained and the scene goes for all of these pieces of footage that you just mentioned, they are all these major accomplishments, and the effort that goes into each of these has just been extraordinary. So
it's just funny. It's been this, you know, especially for those of us behind scenes this dramatic roller coaster that now, now that all of this footage is obtained, this piece is out. But I would imagine that you know, there's more to do with all of this great footage that you've you've captured, right, you know, it takes thee And I've said this before and I'll say it again. This film is the culmination of the entire UFO
community's diligent work. Decade after decade after decade. There were people like yourself and George Knapp, Jacques Vallet, Lee Spiegel, Mark Bearrish, Lancemungia. I mean, the list goes on and on and on that we're working behind tiresly, behind the scenes, you know, people that had gathered. I mean I dedicated the film to Stanton Friedman, Don Schmidt, Kevin Randall.
I mean, it took a village to put this film together. And it was not just the work itself with this particular film, but it's the result of the research of the whole UFO community over the last seventy five years that allowed David Marler, that allowed this film to become what it is. So I thank each and every one of you in the UFO community for all that you've done to help make this film a reality because it I'm grateful to eat and every one of you and I and this film's success is all of our
success. Now you sound like Loue Alisondo, He's always saying this, Really I feel that way. I really do. Yeah, I could have if I if I had enough time to thank each and every person that were involved in making this film a reality, we'd be here for the next six hours. But I just you know, I didn't need people to hear that, because it's important for people to know that this film is a result of all of us. So I want to revisit just for a second, just because
you know, not all of my audience. I get a lot of new people that come in because you know, I'm I'm one of the podcasts.
I think that is more easier to get involved with if you haven't been involved with UFOs, not just because I try to describe it with everybody the background of the things we're talking about, but you know, I try to stick to more credible information like you do with the film and and so I. But the reason I'm kind of prefacing this is that getting back to what we were talking about earlier, for those people who say, you know, I've
been involved with this stuff for a long time. I'm aware of you know, this sort of topic and your films. Your films have all been similar in that they present very good, credible information on this topic. What would you say is different and unique about the phenomenon I've learned from each film that I've been involved with the last twenty six years. Fifty Years of Denial, which I started and completed in the nineties, then we started with Out of
the Blue. Then I did a second version of Out of the Blue, just trying to outdo myself and learning from my mistakes and trying to do better. I know what I saw came remarkably close to getting a distribution deal with with Lionsgate. I was devastated when it fell through, and ultimately it fell through because they said that the production quality and the narrative was sub par I
think was the word they used. Well, in some respects they were right, and so when I set out to do this film, I said, well, I'm not going to make the same mistakes, and if I can't afford to do it right, I'll wait until I can. And you know, doing interviews and hiring national geographic photographers like David West, lighting guys,
professional audio guys, getting the top grade equipment. You know, see three hundred cameras that are really high end that could withstand, you know, being in theaters, hiring a sound engineer, having help with editors, having a strong narrative. I mean, I got this wonderful writer, Mark Parrish, who was invaluable helped really stitch stitch these these cases together into a very powerful
narrative, you know. Having Jacques Fallet, I mean thanks to Lease Biegel, Jacques Vallet in the interim, and he was going through marathon edit sessions with us, helping us put the pieces of the puzzle together accurately, not just from cases that he read about, but cases that he was intimately involved with. Jacques, wasn't it an easy get right? I mean, he's been trying to keep some distance and he had to be coaxed, and luckily he had a passion for what you guys are doing. Of course, he's
great friends with Lee also. You know, he initially was like, well, maybe i'll get involved that after I made the introductor to Lease Biegel made the introduction, we had lunch. Number of times. I'm giving you the trunketed version because we'd be here all night otherwise. But eventually we got him to the studio. And it was funny actually because I if you guys saw
the conditions in which we edited this movie. It was literally in a shock at the end of a dirt road in a garden with no electricity, no running water, no internet, and no oilet and I had to run an extension court from the main house of this woman. And it was supposed to be a temporary situation because I couldn't find an affordable spot to rent the movie, and I couldn't do it in my house because my son was interrupting. You know, I had people over at all nights, on all hours of
the night, like coming and going. It's too disruptive. I was like, this place doesn't even have a bathroom. He is freaking out. Yeah, no, he was like, you know, attack by killer dogs trying to go to the I'm not kidding you. I mean we could go all all night, but but Jacques would come out. And when he first did, I said, well, Jacques, make sure you do all your business before you come out. Make sure you bring water, bring bring your compass,
Do you have any bear spray. You have pepper spray. We were joking, but he'd say, Okay, I'm coming out. I got my compass, I got my night light, I got my knife. And he would come and he would sit in with us on these marathon edits and and help us make sure that everything was put together accurately. And we got to Roswell because I generally avoid Roswell. It's a bit of a hot topic, you know, hot potato issue. But we were covering the Rockefeller initiative,
and the Rockefeller Initiative was about Roswell. I mean, ultimately that was the case that Lawrence Rockefeller told the Clintons to go after the Clinton administration. So we thought, well, we're going to have to go into to the Roswell case very succinct, succinctly, and thank to you know, Kevin Randall and Don Schmidt and a handful of others, Stanton Freeman, we very precisely and
accurately, with a laser beam focused, we did Roswell. And Jacques would sit in the back and he would say, just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts, ma'am. Which is one of the great things of having Jacques there is that you know, he's a scientist, he's also a venture capitalist. And you guys were out there in the Silic Kung Valley kind of area where the where he's from. So, I mean, that's the beauty of having Jacques helping out, reminding you stick to the facts. Jacques was
invaluable. Jacques was, uh, you know, he's my idol. I mean, he's my I mean, I just you know, to Jacques. And Jacques got getting so involved in the film and so excited about it that it just kept expanding and expanding, and we've got dinners all the time, and I'd meet him in San Francisco, he'd come out for weekends where I
live. It's out in the country and I consider him a dear, dear friend now and we communicate a couple of times a week, and then ultimately he invites us out to uh Silicon Valley where we got to go to the lab with Gary Nolan and that was like, wow, that was you know, just that. And you know, this is a good point for because it's interesting your perspective about what's different with this film has a lot to do with the production, the back end stuff as opposed to content. But even
with content getting to Valet and like your visit to this lab. What's I think great about the film is that even if you like me, who is on top of this stuff day by day, you may know a lot about some of this stuff that's going on. But if people watch films, they can go from zero to kind of having really all the most pertinent information for
this topic right now in one sitting by watching your film. Uh. I think that's one of the beauties for one of the beautiful things about your films all the time, but especially with this one, because not everybody is aware of the work that Jacques and Gary are doing at that lab, a lab in Stanford, trying to analyze anomalist material. Yeah, well they're not trying, they are, you know. And Jacques is very cautious, as a scientist should be, not to jump to any conclusions, you know what He
was willing to confirm on cameras that preliminary examination is startling. But he's like, look, I got to send it to a scientific journal for peer review, and there's a number of steps that we need to take in order to make any definitive, you know, conclusions. And but you know, it was it was a tease as to what's going on right now and that that's real science. I mean, that's that's stuff that could be you know, duplicated in a lab. And is on this website Academia for those of you
who aren't aware. And he provides a lot of his papers on various topics science papers, but one of the topics is this. He posted up there a power point on the analysis of these metals so you can get more information about them. It was the presentation he did in France, I think last year. It was like a PowerPoint, wasn't it Or yeah, yeah, PowerPoint, so along those lines as well. You know, there's so much
in there that's great. One of the things that I really like that you, first of all, you got interviews with all the people you need to get interviews with, or we would all love to get interviews with Chris Mellan,
Harry Reid, for goodness sakes, John Podesta. Chris Mellan though said when you took him somewhere interesting, and I would love your thoughts on this because this is a topic that I've really been exploring, is this idea, because right now we're in a place where people are considering the UAP topic, so the question is even the Senate Intelligence Committee is looking into this, are
there how deep do the secrets go? Of course, the UFO can unity feels there's you know, aliens and a hangar and all of this sort of thing, whereas you know, the military is certainly saying that's not the case.
In the Senate's looking into this, where do the secrets go? So one of the topics that comes up for mainstream journalists and for policy people looking at policy is is it possible that there are projects out there that even Chris Mellon, who was essentially in charge of and had an oversight position over all of the SAPs, the black projects essentially, could it be that there are projects out there he's not aware of? And you went there first of all,
how did the conversation get to that topic? And what did you think of his answer? You know, this topic is rampant with disinformation and misinformation, speculation, conjecture. The only thing that I feel comfortable concluding the people who likes are in a position to know is that the government knows a lot more and are sitting on a lot more evidence than what's been released. And I actually brought this up as well with Senator Reid, and I wasn't sure
if I was pushing his level of comfort. I left some of that stuff towards the end of the interview, just in case. But he dropped a couple of bombshells during that time, in one of which which you know, I'll never forget, and that is I had And I'll get to your your other point in a minute about technology and whether we've successfully reversed engineered and all
that nonsense in a moment. But to have the level of confirmation from someone in his position was ground shake, brick shaking, I guess I could say, and you mean, like his comment that when you asked him what's been released, only the tip of the altburg is what they are actually sitting on. And I even went this fall recounting an interview I did with Gordon Cooper which made it into the movie, regarding that that infamous Circle nineteen fifty seven
footage of a landed flying saucer on the dry lake bed. And I'd interviewed Cooper in the nineties about that, and in fact I took my father to that interview. That was my father was, you know, Gordon Cooper was an iconic figure of my dad's generation, and that made a pretty big impact on my dad's you know, overall feelings on what I was doing. But any case, I brought that up with Senator Reid and I was literally describing how he said that, you know, this camera crew had filmed this object.
You know, they brought the film footage to to to Cooper. Cooper had the film footage developed. I asked him, if you watch it, He's like, I held it up, I saw it. It was all perfectly good developed film of a disc on the dry blake bed and it flew off. Meanwhile, I was getting hired and higher up with people in Washington,
and then eventually occurred. Jet comes in and he hands the footage over and Senator re finishes my sentence and he says, and the footage was never seen or heard him Again, I went, yeah, exactly do we have? Did you un tocover stuff like that there? You know? And I just I just couldn't believe it. It's like, yeah, it's there, that stuff's all there. So I said, wait, you're telling me that
there's evidence that hasn't seen the light of day. And you know, it was almost like time stopped there that at that time you know, roating these kind of moments. It's like it's like time freezes over. And I could have see around the room like everyone was kind to engage, everyone was fully engaged. What's he gonna say? You know? And I could see as he had security detail, this big buff guy with a little earpiece and he's looking. Then he had an assisted old people. They're looking. The cameraman
is all focused on all that. The audio guy stops when he's doing it. He's looking, and he's and he takes the cap off his water. It takes a set, puts the cap on, it goes. I'm saying that most said the evidence hasn't seemed to light a day that level of confirmation for me, For me as someone who's been on this journey for for quite some time, uh, that was a bombshell moment for me because, uh, he has a lot of things. It says, you know, here
we got this Pentagon UFO program. You know, I guess it was about ten years in duration, sitting in all this additional evidence, and what curtain did they pull back and what did they uncover? And who's in charge of that other stuff that they're talking talking about? Who's in charge of the other evidence and potentially physical evidence beyond photographs and video and film, you know, and learning that you know from John Podessa that they weren't happy with the answers
that they were getting. And Ford and Carter. Uh. You know what's interesting too about that comment because I think it's really important and I would ask Christopher Mellonis and Senator Reid, like if you know that this stuff is there and the intelligence agencies are I mean, now, I don't know if enough of that came in the cross in the movie, but he said that the intelligence agencies were digging their heels in. They wanted no part of this coming
out. So who's got the authority to release this? That's what I want to know. M H. Well, and that's I guess the process that we're under, uh with the Senate Intelligence Committee. But what and what's interesting is that, uh, well, getting back I guess to the original thing.
But I do want to talk about read is that with Melon your interview, I think is the first time where he's at least I've seen where he suggested that it is possible there were programs that don't follow the regular process and our secret are beyond his control because Previously he had been skeptical that that was the case. So it's interesting to know that his thinking has evolved to where
he told you, yeah, well as he feels like that. And in fact, I know the exact shot when he's saying that, you're looking at an aerial shot of the Pentagon, and I think what the implication there is that it's gone into the private sector and it's out of reach to elected officials. Yeah, and that's something I'm never looking at more. But I think people don't realize that that's really important, that a lot of people are looking at this issue. Is that possible? And if there is, is there
a breakdown in our oversight? Is our breakdown in? I mean it's it's our financial governance. I mean, these are really bedrock issues to our democracy that if that sort of thing is going on, it's a really big deal. That's what I thought was significant about that. But getting to the redcomment, what was interesting, Like you said, everybody's kind of weighted on bating breath. What's he going to say? And you're worried am I pushing him
too far? And I can tell that you asked the question that way, But what was interesting about his answer is that, And what made the moment tense is that you can almost see a little frustration on his face. But the frustration, it turns out, wasn't with you asking the question and pushing pushing him too far. It seemed like by his answer, his frustration was
I want everybody to get it. I am screaming from the rooftops. There's way more evidence of UFO that the world has not seen that the government sitting on. I mean, he seemed very passionate that to get that point across that. Yes, of course there's a lot more evidence. There's a lot
more to this that you guys haven't seen yet. You know, I honestly got the impression that he had no intention going into this interview of dropping those bombshells, because that's the impression I got, Yeah, because we were well into the interview at the time, and I know that he by the way George Knapp was. We owe so much to George Knapp for all the work that he's been doing to make this film happen. To make that interview with
Harry Reid. In reality, George worked behind the scenes for months and months and months, and I cannot thank him enough. And I cannot praise him enough. And the other thing that he said whild shocked me was we were this went. This added a year to production of the movie because towards the end of the interview and he was very like, you know, on time. I mean, he's like, I'm gonna show up at this time and I got to leave it this time, and that's my window, and that's
what you're gonna get. So I made, you know, two and a half hours prior to him his arrival. We made sure everything was turn the cameras on a roll. All he had to do was sit down in that chair and everything was perfect. Well, what's with his aid was like sitting right in the center there. I know it is, but it's kind of fun though. I liked it because it was like a gorilla, let's get this done. Oh yeah, no, it was like, you know, sit down and I can tell you some funny behind the scenes about how it
We almost lost that old interview about ten minutes prior. It was so stressful. But anyway, I said it to read because I know he has to leave in a couple of minutes. I said, would you mind terribly if we could get a little b roll of us walking and talking just to have just in case we need it. And I said, yeah, that'll be fine. I only have I only have a couple of minutes here, so we've got to make it quick. I said, great. So we left
the audio stuff, we left lighting just forget about it. We're gonna hit that hallway over there and up and down a couple of times. It was at the University of Las Vegas library, and we walk and talk, and I figured, well, I might as well take advantage of the fact that I'm, you know, standing here with Senator, you know, former senat Majority of Theater, Harry Reid, and so I said, hey, you know, what was one of the more astonishing aspects of the phenomenon that you
learned during this A tip program? And that's when he revealed them the UFOs, the UAPs shutting off are incredibly sensitive, well not just in the intrusions you know, into super sensitive nuclear weapons facilities, but that they were actually shutting some of these wet weapons off, deactivating them and going as far as
saying, look at the president had called to launch. And by the way, I think that comment on Fox News kind of got under Donald Trump's skin because when Harry Reid said, if the president wanted the lawns, he couldn't have. It's like kind of like the military is not strong enough to go against whatever these things are. It's kind of funny the way he reacted to
that. But I realized then and there that I wasn't covering that angle in the film, and so ultimately I reached out to Robert Hastings, and Robert made his basically his lifetime research, including interviews at everything, completely available to us. So we had a huge gratitude to Robert Hastings for all his work and dedication and making that segment of the film. But we had to do
it because we had to put what Senator ree was saying in context. So the military officers testify at the National Prep Club, you know, one after the other, after the other after the other. Couple with documentation and the photographs of them in the military, it create it's a much stronger case for a christ for what Senator Reid says, an incredible job covering that topic.
Of course, Robert Hastings, he's written the book UFOs and Nukes, he did a documentary on it and in which he let you use some of that footage. I noticed some of his interviews, which is great because that made that section really strong. Now, skeptics are saying that you took Harry Reid's comments out of context. I'm not sure in what manner they feel that's the case. But to clear up, I mean, that's not the case at all. Right. He brought up that its that UFOs are affecting news.
I have an email confirmation of Senator Harry Reid as of three or four days ago to confirm that everything presented in the film is one hundred per accurate. And that's what he said. And I had to have that for the likes of Politico, the Guardian, Fox, which are all writing articles now. Oh well, they needed that confirmation and they got that confirmation. Awesome.
Oh so Politico is working on something some of these other We've seen a couple of stories on this already, but I know somebody who wants there on this
topic very well. Well, I'm sure a lot of others are, which is great because well, and that's what's important about you presenting that information and doing it I think in a manner that is better than perhaps I've ever seen before to lay out the case that to support Harry Reid's claim that you know, there are a lot of people around the world, it's not just an American phenomena that nuclear silos, nuclear missiles have been affected during UAP encounters at
these launch locations. All we did was take the amazing decades long research of Robert Hastings, the testimony of the military officers that he's tracked down, and we put that segment together. And I remember my partner co producer, writer Mark Barrish, I mean, we must have ripped that apart and put it back together one hundred and fifty times. Wow. At one point I was in a fetal position, just going, oh my god, I'm never going
to get this, dude. No, but it shows and I think it's really I think it's really even though it's only a few minutes long, I think it's really impactful. And the other thing that kind of blows that argument out of the water that Reid was taken out of context is that I think assumes that Harry Reid is not very well versed on this topic. And one of the things that you're demonstrating here is that Harry Reid is very well versed
on this topic. And one of the things. George Knapp has told me that Harry Reid was going to nid's meetings, so Bigelow Aerospace before they even got involved with the government investigating UFOs. Bigelow was doing his own investigations and Harry Reid was involved, So he's been keeping tabs on this topic for decades. Jacques vl A debriefed Harry Reid at least once, if not more, top secret clearance, and Jacques was involved with NIDS and ut AW SAP.
I think it's called eight what is that awsapp? Oh, and I did want to get into that, but yeah, yeah, and I know that Harry Reid since the eighties, according to George Knapp and in actuality, Harry Reid had talked about his relationship with Bigelow and and NID and even bigger exciting
of a UFO when he was a kid. So yeah, his interest and research goes back decades, right, So I mean, yeah, this is nothing new for him, which is also I mean really exciting in that you know, we have this advocate of Unfortunately he's in his eighties, his health is kind of not the best. You can tell that in the film, and in fact, I would imagine that when you had your walk. You know that he he's showing his age, I guess is what I'm getting at.
He's unfortunately older, so hopefully people other people will kind of pick up the mantle to run honest. But well, I I'm so grateful for his courage and coming forward and staking his reputation. Uh, you know, everything to lose, nothing to gain. So I commend him. In fact, I commend all of the people that have come for the household names. I mean, you know, uh, Governor Bill richardson which Don Schmid was influential
making that happen. Podesta, Christopher Mellen, you know, these these these people are doing so much, louel Azondo behind the scenes to help bring attention to a topic that I feel is that most I would agree is very very important and people have a right to know about mm hmm. You know, there's kind of this debate going on now about a lot of different aspects, and of course politics is a hot issue, so some people are bringing that in into this. Although you know, this effort a lot of people.
In fact, lou Alessandro did a Q and a type of thing on Twitter today and he makes a point that this has been a bipartisan thing. And uh, you know, lou Alessando Chris Mellen are not partisan at all. I mean they they were part of their jobs. They try to remove themselves from that. But have you gotten a lot of that, A lot of feedback as far as you know, politics and accusing you, you know, being involved with some kind of I'm sure you get a lot of weird theories
about your film. I you know, I try not to engage, and I see people every now and again, you know, oh, this film is part of the deep state. I'm like, oh my god, it really is. But I do get those comments. I mean, I'm I'm Joe public. I'm as independent as you could get. You know, I'm I'm you guys, you know what I mean. I'm Joe citizen. And I've just wanted to make a difference and try to get some of the more credible aspects of the phenomenon out to the general public. And I felt necessarily
rely on our government to do that. I can say to the Stars and Big Group ND and you and the a Tip and ASEPT that the private citizens involved run the gamut when it comes to political perspectives. I worked with people from both in both parties and and it's just a non partisan issue and as
it should remain to be non partisan. And even the other night when, uh, you know, when I was on Fox News with Tucker Carlson, Tucker even said, look, this is a non partisan issue, and he kind of jokingly said, you know, and Senator Harry Reid is about as a Democrat a Democrat as he's ever seen one or something I can't remember, but then he said, again, this is a non partisan issue, and then completely had respect for what, you know what what Senator Reid was saying,
and and back and and publicized it far and wide. So I'm very encouraged by that. And I think this is a wonderful opportunity to unify the country and potentially even much much more than that. It's it's one of those topics that that transcends religion and borders and politics, and whether you believe these things are going on or not. I think everyone is curious, are we alone in the universe? Is there evidence being withheld from the general public that
would support the fact that we are not alone in the universe? And how significant of discovery would you give that. I mean, these are questions that I think everybody wants answers to and I'm convinced because people ask me all the time why do I do what I do? And well, I'm convinced that there is evidence out there that's that every man, woman and child has a
right to know. So, you know, I have another on your hairy interview, and you brought up as APP was it, which was the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program, which was the kind of precursor to a TIP, which is really where the money went at first, And in your interview, because this is kind of ASAP is mysterious, and it kind of seems like there is kind of a cover up in a way over ASAP in the UFO community, I think in that they don't want to taint the UFO waters,
which I can understand. But I was wondering if that kick came up in your interview because the original thing that Harry Reid tried to sponsor was an investigation into a lot of different paranormal phenomena, not just UFOs. And in one of the answers he gave you, he used the he said the term I think all these phenomena. So did that come up? You know, did you get a sense of him having a really large interest and other topics
you know that are considered paranormal. Yeah, he talked about the ranch skin work a ranch, Uh talk about I think putting sensors at the ranch and some very unusual things happening there. I think there was a visit by some guy in the CIA. He might have mentioned, but we primarily focused more on UAPs. But yeah, you mentioned other paranormal stuff. I guess you'd call on that now. Someone else, one of the conspiracy guys is saying, well, why now for you in this film? For me, it
would be like, it's always now. You've been as you know, you've been doing films on this topic for decades, and you're always working on films on this topic. So why now. It's because because this is what you do. I've got got footage. Yeah, I've got footage of me in my twenties, thirties, forties, and fifties doing this stuff, you know. So I've been doing it since the mid nineties and this project though, started really before all of these major disclosures we've had in the four years.
So that's the other thing I wanted to ask the Evolution project because you know, I'm sure didn't. Could you speak to that? How much did this change and how much did this grow? And kind of a life of its own as revelations are being made while you're creating this thing. So there's been
a pattern with every film I've made. When I started on my first UFO documentary, which is called fifty Years of Denial UFOs, the fiftieth anniversary of the Roswell event broke and that guy, Colonel Corso, I know, he's highly controversial, whether you believe his accounts or not. That made headlines and you know that was kind of a boon for us at the time of production. When I did Out of the Blue, we made that major revelation of
will Governor five Senten of Arizona coming forward. That made major headlines, and cod catapulted the UFO matter back into the headlines, which is one hundred percent. You one of your you know, interview when you were making one year films, not everybody knows that you're the one who got Simonton t Yeah,
so I'm out with that. Then when we were doing I Know what, I saw Leslie and I did that event at the National Press Club, which we made a film about, and all of a sudden in two thousand and eight, two thousand and sevento and nine, all these countries, France and England started to release previously classified UFO files. So that was making headlines. You had the two thousand and six UFO sighting over Ohair Airport that made major headlines. You know. So I jokingly said, you know, because I
didn't know really exactly how I was going to end this movie. And I jokingly said, well, you know, something generally happens. You got piazzon valleys during the something generally happens. And I'm sure you know, because every film I ever do is at least five years inevitably, something's gonna break. There'll be a sighting or something, and and well we'll cover it. And but I had no idea that that story was brewing, it was going to
wind up on the front page of the New York Times. That was like wow, that caught me off guard in a major way, and that sent us, you know, additional couple of years of production. But hey, I mean, what a wonderful place to be, What a wonderful place to be four years into production and that story to break. I mean, we
were right there in the middle of it. I mean, it's kind of like when I went to when I was doing some pickup it was actually ended up to being I know what I saw, But I was actually doing a revisiting my film Out of the Blue, because I've got two versions of an earlier version, of older version, of the newer version, and the newer
version. I was doing some pickup shots in Phoenix, Arizona, when that case in Stevenville, Texas broke, Remember that massive sight in se Texas that was all over the place, And so I happened to have a camera crew all like already in Phoenix. We literally jumped on an airplane. We landed that night in Stephenville, Texas, and we were at the town hall meeting the next morning, all with our cameras. So that it just happened to be right place, right time, and this incident on the front page of
the New York Times, a revelation of the secret UFO Pentagon program. We were in the right place at the right time, and I think it was around that time of that film. I guess that you did did the Larry King episode with Tom DeLong, and this was before Tom Delong's to the Stars Academy, which is kind of interesting too. That was a little bit later. Tom DeLong and I met for the first time in two thousand and nine and he let very generously let me record the narration for I know what I
saw in his studio. Oh wow, I did not know that. Yeah. Yeah, so that was two thousand and nine. Ten, I think in two thousand, late two thousand and nine. Yeah, so I've answered that's the first time I met him. I heard about him a little bit in the past, but actually met him and you know, kind of came acquaintances during that time. So speaking of the end of the film, it is kind of interesting. And there has been comment made about how the film
is mostly the UFO phenomena. I think a deep examination and what's great about it is that when you watch this film, even though some of this is stuff you know, I think or is covered by others, I mean, you do a deep dive. You have I think you have more Blue Book people in your film than any film that's been done since maybe when Blue Book
was running. So you really get an intimate look on how the military has been dealing with this issue over the years, and given this coming into the current time, then getting these interviews with the people who are making the news right now, but getting information about this that isn't out there that they haven't talked about before. So but then all of a sudden, Aliens, of course one of the most incredible cases. But the Ruwaine counter, like you
said, what was kind of the idea behind that? It was kind of like, you know, you've got all this stuff and then all of a sudden, here come the Aliens. A great case, and I love it, but what were you thinking? What was kind of the the thought process behind that shift. Well, if you look at the previous three films I've done, I've only covered close encounters of the first kind and second kind.
I've never gone into close encounters of the third kind. Because when you've got, you know, allegedly reports of beings, that's very different than you know, just seeing something that's unidentified in the sky, or chasing something or maybe even as far as the landing. But when you actually report on what could be alien beans to another world, boy, that's a that's a slippery slope, and I feel like I'm My biggest concern was that the people like Harry
Reid, who clearly wanted to see the final version of the film. Prior to I was terrified, quite honestly that here I was, for the first time, imagine delving into close and kinds of the third kind, Like like if I walk down the street right now and tapped on the shoulder of you know, with my mask on, tapped on the shoulder of an average you know, Joe public and said, hey, have you heard about you know,
a UFO landing in Africa at a school? And the occupents got out and interacted telepathody with like sixty six or a hundred children, you know, talked about, you know, this image of doom, of environmental destruction, like Pi, what pie are you with? Smoking? Buddy it? So
I knew what I was up against. I knew what my reaction was to that case, right, and so I very carefully And you know, I have to tip my hat to Randall Nickerson, who's got a film coming out, Aerial Phenomenon, and the new producer who's Dan Farrah, who we're very fortunate to have on board with this production. Dan is a very mainstream producer.
He did a Ready Player one with Steven Spielberg, and he's pulled out his rolodex and he's gone all in on his contacts and really helped, you know, quarterback all the pr that's been happening, and he's incredibly talented. But in any case, Randall Nickerson, I got to tip my hat to
him. He was very helpful in tracking down the witnesses and really doing that case justice because you know, not only licensing the John Mack footage from nineteen ninety four, those interviews with the children are priceless, but also hearing from them twenty years later and it's like the incident had occurred yesterday. I mean, they remember every detail that is. You can say, like, boy,
you almost got me with the children. But my god, when I met with them when they were was adults and they're still saying the same thing. That was really impressive. So I felt like the sheer volume of eyewitness testimony in broad daylight, the Harvard psychiatrist interviewing the children at the time right afterwards on camera isn't incredibly compelling. Hearing from them later and the fact that
we don't draw any conclusions. You hear a little comment from Judy Bates, who is a teacher who's now the head mistress at the end in Africa, I was comfortable enough leaving that in and to my I wouldn't say total surprise, but surprised that not only did Podesta and Read and Melon and all these other people sign off, but they're also willing to publicly endorse this film, which I it's amazing. I've never that is great a level of endorsements for
a UFO film that's happening right now, and that's that's remarkable. That's got to be indicative of of of this field post New York Times, and of course I guess, well, maybe you can confirm this, but I'm convinced knowing well, having talked with most of well some of those people that but still following interviews and these guys and what they do, in my mind, there's no doubt that all of those people, Podesta, Malan Reid were already aware of the RUA case. Maybe I would imagine they were. I mean,
they're very They're more well versed than people realize, I think. But it's one thing to be aware of it. It's another thing to be associated to a film that alleges contact with alien beings and telepathic messages. I mean, think about that. I know that's what's incredible, and because you're already pushing the envelope with people and then you really kind of push it a little,
push it even further. Some people have argued, and I knew there would be some of this, Some people have argued that that kind of illegitimizes the entire rest of the project and undermines the credibility of it. And I knew some people would say that because there's a lot of what Stan Freedoman would called negative what negative negativists or something, I forget what is a funny term that he had. But regardless, it's been a lot. I've heard a
lot less than that than I've expected. There's been very little of that, And the mainstream coverage I don't think is really gone there, not at all. You know, Look, you're gonna get and I've been told this time and time again, you're gonna get lots of you know, Look, we have a ton of very positive reviews, very positive mainstream reviews. I mean, I've never seen anything like it. Obviously, you're gonna get, you
know, the negative stuff or you know, too far. Look, i've heard not games didn't go far enough, that's right, Yeah, noisy negativists you're never gonna please everybody, obviously, And look, our goal was simply to create a body of evidence that could be presented to mainstream and I would say, where are we During the production of the film, we had a
mantra in the studio We're on the road to RUA. And what I meant by that is that we're building our case so that when the audience watches this film and that incident occurs at the end, people can walk away way thinking to themselves, Wow, maybe that case actually did happen. And honestly, I think that we have succeeded in that. And some people say we haven't gone far enough. Some people say we want too far. I don't know. I think we got it just right. I think, you know,
you've got a great point there. And the other thing that I would justify that is you're asking the big question, and this is the big question we have to face. And to kind of justify it even further, it's the same question. It's the same thing SETI does. Seti's not saying there are extraterrestrial civilizations are out there. They're saying that the numbers show that it's got
to be the statistic. The odds are that they're out there somewhere, but we think that it's an important question and that's why we need to do this research to try to figure it out. That's exactly what you're doing. You're showing the potential where we could lead to if if we seriously investigate it, and why we need to look, which is the argument that everybody who feels the same way needs to argue right now with the Senate that hey, you
guys are reviewing this UAP stuff. We as a public are very interested and we want more information because it could be it's even if it's a long shot, we could be being visited. There could be an interaction with some force greater than this, which justifies the entire effort. Senator Harry Reid puts it so beautifully. He says, just because you don't understand something, it doesn't mean you should run away from it. We should embrace it, and we
should study it. It's funny everybody's now noisy negative, noisy negative in the chat. Yeah, now they're all saying, yep, that's what it is. That's what we have. Propagation that used to say, you know that we've we dedicated the film to Stanton Yeah, which is awesome, Which is so incredible because really, you know, the public probably wouldn't really Roswell wouldn't be a household name without Stanton Friedman. I want to say one thing while
I'm talking about Stanton Freedman, if I may for a moment. By the way, I was devastated when he passed. When I found out he passed, it if those of you out there have a good sound system. Because this film was going to be in theaters, I at the last two months of production, I had two options. One because I didn't have enough money to do both. One was clean up the graphics and hire some more high
end graphics people. Or two was to focus on sound engineer. And because it was going to be in theaters, people in the industry kept saying, look, you don't understand. You need to understand the importance of good, properly mixed, properly filtered sound. And people are going to be in the auditorium or the theater and they're going to be irritated and distracted and thennoid and they're not going to know what it is. It's bothering them. It's the
sound. And so we did a Dolbe five point one surround sound mix with a three time Emmy Award winning sound engineer in Los Angeles. So if you guys have good quality speakers, please use them because the sound is phenomenal. And at the end, oh yeah, and at the end it's five point one Dolby surround mix. If you have a five point one Dolby surrounding stereo, you're going to hear voices all around the room. I mean, it's like amazing. And at the end, watch all the credits. I trust
me on when I tell you, guys, watch the credits. Stanton Friedan's name appears. And I wanted the chairs to rumble, and I kept saying, deeper, more thunder, like there's a super deep bass there, super deep bass. I hit it and we went over and the guy kept looking at me. Is this enough? And I said no, I want more. And it's more, you know, how about this? Like the yeah, I was like, and your chair rumbles. You can feel, you can feel in your bones. I can't wait to rewatch that part. But
you gotta have good speakers. Please watch the movie with good speakers. Uh. Getting back to rua real quick. I've interviewed and I've spent time with and only Trim and sel Acidic, two of the witnesses who are now adults. And there's something I found and I would look your feedback on this because I recognize this. I think in your your show all there is something odd about them they are. I don't know if it's the education system or whatever.
I know it's a rural area that they went to school and out there, but they all they intelligent and eyes and articulate, I mean both of Every time I talk to either of them, especially on this topic, I feel like, you know, it's kind of incredible. They feel like they're wise beyond their their years. It's almost like they came face to face with an alien from other world, you know, like they had telepathic communication face
to face. It's weird. It's almost like that. Well, and and it lends to that in a way in that you know these of course, the ideas were advanced for them to share at the time as children, but even now to reflect upon them, certainly you can tell the impact. But the impact overall, even though it created some curiosity and sometimes some conflict with people, overall it seems to have had a positive fit in that they it's
almost like interviewing astronauts. I always say this when I interview astronauts, there's a wisdom that they have from going out to space and being out there. It changes them and then when they reflect upon it, you know. It's some of my favorite moments is to talk to astronauts about these sort of things. And I almost get that same sense when I'm talking to these reu WA witnesses. It's it's weird, it's but they had definitive proof that we're not
alone. We're part of a much bigger universe. You know. One of the most poignant moments of my career was sitting down with astronaut Edgar Mitchell six man to walk on the Moon, and we are in the middle of this interview about UFOs and I said, Mitchell, I'm so sorry, doctor Mitchell to ask this of you, because I'm sure you've been through this. Could you tell me what it was like to go to the Moon. And He's like, okay, you know, I understand. Jam Yeah, I said,
if you don't mind, I'd really like to hear it. No, I'm glad to ask everyone who meets an astronaut, even if they get annoyed you got to ask because it's changing. It's just to listen to them, right, Caudless story. What I do when I really want to absorb a witness's encounter or any kind of story, like I did the same thing when I met with firing this guy Travis Walton, is what I do is I
closed my eyes and I have their words create the imagery. So I see the story and I live it with them, and I asked them to create it in vivid detail. So I really feel like. I went to the Moon with edgar Mitchell, and the part that struck me the most, he said that he was so caught up in the task at hand of landing this module down on the lunar surface that he might as well have been in a simulator because he was just so focused on all the instruments and everything else.
But then one system shut off and everything was silent, and they'd been up essentially for three days, traveling to the to the to the moon. He said that it was a silence unlike anything he experienced. And then he could hear these macro meteorites helting the skin of the craft. And they got there. They were supposed to sleep, but they were like we're not sleeping, and they got their suits on against the will of NASA. They're like, look, we're going we're going out on the loot of surface. Sorry,
but we're not. We can't sleep. So they got their suits on, and I went on the on the moon, and he talked about an Earth rise and he said that he looked at this beautiful blue marble suspended in a vacuum of space, this darkness that you've never seen, and rise and he put his hand up and he blocked out the entire Earth, everything that you'd known, all the cultures, all the invisible lines you need to about, all the wars that were going on, and all the different cultures and just
all of these things. And there were no there were no lines of territory. It was just all one. We had this profound epiphany of this this this interconnectedness, uh and the one race and one people. And I know it sounds like, you know, Kumbaya moment, you know, but but it's true, you know, and it really I think about it all the time. In fact, when I look at the Moon, I think about him describing what it was like to stand on the lunar surface and look back
at Earth. And the time that to process that all that stuff. And I wish, quite honestly, more politicians would have those epiphanies and see ourselves for who we really are. I mean, really we were one race. We're one people and one planet, and that's the reality, you know. And I think the unifying effect of this phenomenon reality that would have on the world could be a beautiful thing because forced us to have a similar epiphany because
that's the reality. I think Scott Kelly told me it. He realized that that's our when you look back on the Earth, that's our spaceship. That we're all on this spaceship together. And of course, for Nasi, your crew members are your life, you know, almost like the military. You rely on each other. And he thought, you know, that's our spaceship and all of the rest of the humanity are are our crew members? Yeah, that a great example of what I'm talking about with the real wine encounter.
Somebody asked, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer. But and I know that at least testimony was not from regression. That's something they remembered, and I don't think they any of them were hypnotically regressed. No, didn't hear any of those. None of that. I didn't hear any of it. No, none of it. It's a legit question because it was you know, John mack a psychologists who kind of went out and participated and helped bring this case to light. But no, yeah, not regression.
These were their exact memories of what happened to them, which is so strange and like for people who don't know, well, just in the hand, you know, real quick, you know that it was all these kids see this craft land an entity comes out and I'll just leave it at that because your film puts it together perfectly. I mean, it's beautiful the way it's put together and shot. So people film to get more. I'm gonna share
one little thing with you. Uh. The end of the movie was a complete accident because maybe I shouldn't give it away, but do like but the children is all I could say. Because a lot of people have criticized me for a long time about what I do. Oh yeah, oh my god, yeah, topic, Oh god, Jesus I they're not laughing so much these days, but they believe me. I got decades of people laughing at
me, and you know, you just get tired of defending it. I would go to cocktail parties and I would tell people, please don't say anything about what I do, because I know what's going to happen. It's going to be this debate and I'm going to spend the rest of the night defending myself and I don't want to hear about it. And I don't care whether they believe it or not. It's like sort of question of belief. You either know what's going on or you don't. And no one's screaming from the
hilltops et is here. We're just saying there's something truly inexplicable taking place. It seems to be technological, it's it's it's psychic, it's you know, there's there's an intelligence behind it. But but in any case, the ending of the film was a bit of an accident, and I'll leave it at
that. Yeah, it was a bit of an accident because I've done this whole montage of things with sound and adult voices on the children's under them as children and reflecting on what had happened, and having twenty years to think about it and process all that, and obviously being an adult and being able to articulate better, and then I screwed up and I deleted all this audio that was underneath it by accident. But then I realized, like, wow,
that's that's pretty powerful on its own. And so that's the end. At the end is sort of created itself. I wanted we've kind of running We're pretty much running law on time, but if you've got a little more time, I would like to talk about the bonus materials. And some people have made some good points, and they've been telling each other, you do need to get the movie on ituned or vimeo and ordered that bonus material. But the great thing is is that you were able to provide some bonus material.
I don't think they have to pay more for iTunes or vimeo to get that VI too. No, no, don't. So that was the whole thing was people were like, oh, this price point is so high, Well, there will be an option to rent at one point. Put with renting, you just get to watch the film a few times. With buying it, you not only get the movie you can watch it over and over and
over, but you also get about three hours of bonus material. And we got to interview some of the stuff that didn't make it into the film. Some of the older archival footage. I mean, I've got the the it did at the National Press Club with Leslie Kane. That's fantastic behind the scenes stuff there, old interviews with doctor heinik Ufo, signings over Colorado, a killer interview with Story Musgrave talks about piloting the space Shuttle over Earth, the
epiphanes that he had looking back at the planet. I mean, it's just fascinating stuff, priceless stuff as part of the bonus material. So definitely get film. If you're got to buy it and not rent it, you get it from iTunes or vimeo. Oh, and the website has the links on it. The website is the Phenomenon www dot the Phenomenon film dot com. Excuse me, so, I mean, where do you think we're headed with
all of this? What is your sense having talked to all of these guys, Because no doubt, you know, of course the film, the footage and the time you spent talking with all of these guys, It's only a fraction of that is represented in the film, So you had time to talk with all of these guys and putting this all together, do you get a sense of where we're heading with this? We edited the film up until a
couple of months ago, month and a half something like that. I mean talk about last minute, and one of the co producers, Dan Farrah, was like, you know, James, you should really put a call to action in the film. And I thought, you know, Dan, that's a really good idea, and so he had recommended. We had a That's why I asked you if you've seen the newer version, because the newer version has got the latest stuff dating as recent as April twenty twenty with the acknowledgment
and the official release of those cockpit recordings from the Navy. But at the end, we have a call to action. Contact your representative, let him know that we want government transparency. We know there's more stuff to be released. You know, people want to complain about anecdotal evidance. First of all, there's not just anecdotal evidance. But we know we've had confirmation from people that know that the government's sitting on a treasure trove of solid evidence and we
like that to be released. So I'd like to see more pressure on our representatives. And remember, our representatives need to hear from their constituents. They're not going to take action loan. They need to know, Hey, this is okay. If I put my neck out here, wouldn't it be amazing If we can get congressional errands. Wouldn't it be amazing if we could have an assessment of the phenomenon made public. I mean, think about the implications.
So I'm very excited as to where it's headed right now. I think that we might have reached that tipping point, but we can't take it for granted. We need to keep the pressure on. Look, you know, we've been getting a pretty good amount of publicity, and this film is getting out there, and you never know when it's gonna plateau. You know, it could plateau tomorrow. I don't think it's going to I think it's we're going to keep the pressure on. I heard Politico might be even covering it
or deny. Now, there's lots of things brillied behind the scenes for lots of and then will continue to do so. Remember this is not just going to be a week long push, a two week push. This is going to be a seven month push so and maybe even a year. So there's going to be a lot of very exciting things. There's talk of once the pandemic passes and there can be a safe reopening the theaters. There's talk of
doing a limited theatrical run. That'd be amazing, you know, conferences, you know, using this film as a tool, and that's that's what we want. We want to educate the public as much as we can. We're not trying to force anybody into joining our cult, you know. But it's like we feel that there's enough credible uh information that people should be entitled to
have that that we put together mm hmm. And I'm sorry that interrupted you too from where you think this is going, which I love the point that you made, which has been my big point that right now we've got a bigger opportunity than we've ever had to actually make some changes. Right now, the Senate Intelligence Committee, this hasn't happened except for maybe before nineteen sixty nine. The Senate Intelligence Committee is deciding what to do with this topic. They've
asked for information, they're going to be reviewing information. They've already seen more information than we've ever seen. So right now is the time to let them know how we feel about it as a public. Yeah, And I've also gotten calls from people that in a position to know that said that this film is making the rounds at the Pentagon ah members of the House and Senate, which is kind of cool. You know they're going to know because a lot of them don't really know, like, well, yeah do here. This
film kind of lets you know. Yeah, And Chris Mellan and Louise Elizondo have expressed their you know, how much they like the film more so than I think they've they've done with any other third party thing. I mean, they're pushing your film as much as they pushed their own TV show Unidentifying, so they lee leve it. That moment for me when I saw that tweet from lou Alizondo, I had a moment when I saw that because I was like, wow, man, we did it like we did it. This
is this is a level of validation that I've never felt before. And that was so cool for me, you know, as the director, to see that, you know, an insider say, hey, this film says things I can't This film is is totally accurate. I was at the Pentagon for ten years. That for me was Wow, that was my wow moment. Hopefully I have a lot more Yeah, and you know, I oh, I just lost my train of thought because there's a guy who felix sunsets, right, I like sunrises or sunsets long strolls on the beach. No,
hu train a thought back on track. That's all. Oh, I see what you're saying. Uh No, I wasn't. I was going to talk about seeing if you want to take a walk on the beach, but that was after the interview. But there are just people, And I guess my point is there's people who are bringing out a lot of more of the fringe
ideas. But even if you do believe in some really wild kind of more bigger conspiracy, it's still I think behooves you to let your congress people know, especially in Senate, your interest in this, because the doors cracked open, and we want to keep that crack crack open, and so we need to let them know that we really want that, which can then continue to help lead to more discoveries and disclosures that may bring us to what, you know, more some of the wilder ideas could be the case. Now he's
talking about walking on the beach. Look, it's good. I think it's gonna be much harder for those in power to dismiss this phenomenon as unidentified or misidentified aircraft, swamp gas, weather balloons to an informed public. Once you know that there's a lot more to this than swamp gas, it's a lot more difficult for them to pull the wool over our eyes. And I'm also kind of happy, to be honest with you, I I was, I
was unsure of it. I'm I'm really happy that we addressed Roswell and I'm and I'm glad that the people that are in the film, Jacques jacque Rolet being one of them as well, haven't shied away from associated them with a film that that that touches on Roswell, Because you know, it's one thing to talk about little things whizzing around in our airspace. It's another thing to talk about beings on the ground and alleged crashes. So you know, it's
that's the big deal. Right. Yeah, So my my last I guess what will make kind of my my last question here is the other criticism that we saw, and I think it might have been in the CNN piece or one of the mainstream media and huh graphics. Yeah, And I get the point, and in a way, I I'm on your side, and that
that's not the kind of documentary you were doing what they're talking about. However, I get their point, and I really appreciate the question because because they're questioning that aspect, it means they're taking the content and the material very very seriously. Remember I said to you, I had two decisions whether it was going to be sound or those graphics and recreations. I could only afford to
do one at the time. Well, I chose sound, and I knew that some of those recreations that were part of UFOs and Nukes, which is an amazing product, amazing research and amazing doc well, amazing graphics. I think I think they're really good. Yeah, but to do things like at the level of like Steven Spielberg, which is what we would like, is getting a huge budget, Man, it's out of reach for people like myself
and Robert Hasing's. But I think their point was something different, which I love the idea of personally, and in fact, you know, we kind of tried to do this with open mindset times. I think they're like thinking this topic needs like the sixty minutes treatment. Yeah, it means that really serious document enery style where it is lots of talking heads, but it's all centered around the content. Yeah, no, no, no, I look, I set out I used that very analogy. This is going to be
the sixty minutes of UFOs Frontline sixty minutes. Those were the types of productions that I wanted to see, seriousness, high production, value style production, and for the most part we did it. There were some graphics and things of that nature that we just kind of ran out of resources and that were good enough. I mean, you know, I kind of feel like you made the right decision though personally, because what you created is more palatable,
more interesting to the general population. If you did something more wonky like they would like, it would only be interesting to a smaller segment, the people who like news and you know, like that nerdy, you know, real detailed pundit type of stuff, which there's a place for that, and it would be great for something like that to be created, but we're kind of at the point where, you know, the wider population needs this information and
what you created is I think, more more entertaining, more app to get more eyes on it, which I think right now is more important. We focused on credibility, credibility, credibility, because you don't need to sensationalize a UFO lady if you can, that's that's what you need. Well, great job with the film. Thank you so much for being here to talk once again. And we'll definitely do this and not too distant future. But I
know right now you're swamped. In fact, you probably have more interviews today, tomorrow, all week long. I do, and I'm trying to space things out. I mean, I'm just super excited that people are giving us the time of day, yourself included, and all the work that's gone on behind the scenes. I'm so grateful to everybody in the UFO community to have made this project a reality, and I'm really really excited to see where this
is all heading. I'm very optimistic that it's moving where it needs to move. We're getting enough highly influential people. You know, we have a mini army marching behind us. And this is remember this film success is all of our success. This is a culmination of everybody's hard work and dedication and it takes a village. Well, thank you so much, and we'll be talking
again. In fact, I'm going to interview you for Den of Geek, an outlet I write for that has a big following more of a sci fi type of thing, but we've gotten a lot of great responses on these sort of interviews. And then I know Phoenix Move has asked me to help them do an interview for them with you, so we'll be talking a lot as we usually do, except for when you're hunkered down in your little shack editing. Yeah, well yeah, I got a lot. Just sorry, I'm
editing. Sorry I'm editing, and when that was going on. But yeah, always great to talk to you, and we'll talk to you again soon.
Thank you, Alejandro. I had a lot of fun. Oh and I should say for those of you watching normally, we have a What's doug Reading live stream that we do today, but now actually I'm gonna get in my car and head back to Arizona, so we won't have one of those, but I will have the Open Minds News regular show tomorrow as well, and in fact, for the Scientific Coalition for a Ufology or for UAP Research, the SCU, I'll be hosting an interview with doctor Michael Masters tomorrow also,
so keep an eye out for all of that great stuff. So until next time, James audience, We'll see you later, and thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. Bye.