Robert Schroeder, UFOs and Modern Physics

Welcome to the UFO Thinktank Craigier with your host Alejandro rojan Ello Andrew, Welcome to UFO Think Tank Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am very happy to be here with you. Yet again, we have a great show. Today. We have Robert Schroeder and he's going to talk about UFOs and modern physics. Not unlike a couple of shows ago when we had David Paris this he as a gentleman who has done a lot of work looking into how UFOs operate, and he's very up to date on modern physics

and he's drawing some connections. Hey man, I think I can talk to how UFOs operate. We might be able to measure some effects from these UFO sidings to prove that this is the case. Very interesting show, as you all know. I love UFO science and getting science involved with all of this and trying to move it forward that way, and that's what this show is all about. Robert has written a book called Solving the UFO Enigma. How

modern physics is revealing the technologies of UFOs. So we're going to talk all about Robert. How he got here. He's actually an engineer for many years, and we'll talk about his background also. So this is very exciting. I think you're gonna love it, and we have a lot to talk about. So actually I'm gonna truncate the news a little bit into about eight minutes. And also because I'm busting at the seams and i just can't keep this

from you all anymore. If you're in to UFOs and science and space science, you're gonna love something I am working on specially just for you, which is a conference with some media people and some scientists, and we're gonna talk about space UFOs and the search for extraterrestrial life, astrobiology, you know, Kepler and all of this planet hunting that's going on, physics and mathematics, and we're gonna have all these PhDs. We're gonna have, you know,

a lot off. If you have buddies who you're like, man, you know, they're real skeptics, they're real science minded, they're engineers or scientists, and you're like, you know, I don't know if I want to take them to some of these other conferences. They're going to think this stuff's a little too fringe. Then this is a conference for you. Please bring your skeptic buddies. It's going to be reasonable priced, and it's going to be in Las Vegas, Nevada, the first weekend of October, at the

beautiful Tropic Canna the middle of the Strip. So I am talking first class, first class place bowled out there. They're going to have this up on the Marquee on the Strip, across the street from Excaloper and Luxor and MGM, in the middle of everything, not hidden away in some side room. We are going to have, uh, just in an incredible event. I'm

going to talk to you more about that in a little while. I don't have the side up, I don't have all the speakers confirmed, and I don't have time to talk too much on it now, but I want I'm to let you know it's also going to be extremely affordable, probably less than practically any conference out there. But anyway, it's gonna beautiful. It's gonna be great. You guys are gonna love it. Wanted to get you you a little heads up because we're gonna have limited space. But I need to

get into some news of the week now. I talked about this last week, but I wrote my own story up at Ufodailynews dot com. And this is about the Viking Mars mission possibly finding life. And the reason I'm bringing it up again is because I wrote this story and in fact, i'm reporting here from the UFO Daily news room. And by the way, you know this site, if you go to it, it's awesome. If you go to the UFO News speed, you're gonna have UFO News updated on a regular

basis. You're gonna be like, wow, this is incredible. This has never been done before, and you're right because it hasn't. And if you want to help write for UFO Daily News, I would love to have some volunteers and work with some of you out there, so please email me at info at ufodailynews dot com, Info at ufodailynews dot com or Alejandro at ufodailynews dot com. Some of you can't spell that, that's fine. Really, I've got it set up for anything you put before at ufodailynews dot com.

It's gonna get to me. So yeah, if you want to write about some of this stuff, like the Viking Mars mission finding life, what happened and this is really cool is that this University of Southern California scientist his name is Joseph Miller. He's a biologist and a neuropharmacologist, so he looked at that data. And what they've done is put together this mathematical equation that can kind of or a program that can look at this data from the soil and

determine whether it is from organic living matter or not. He says, he's ran experiments here on the Earth and it's always been accurate. The soil with organics in it shows that it is more complex than the soil without. He ran these experiments with the numbers that were retrieved from the Viking missions in the late seventies to Mars, and he says, without a doubt, it shows that there's living bacteria in the soil. He says, he's ninety nine percent

sure there is life in this bacteria. That is fascinating news, I think, he says. Some critics have said that this mathematical system has not been proven yet, it's not completely adopted by everyone, and so they haven't taken this as hard proof yet, but it's certainly very strong evidence. What he says is that we need to send a microscope out there to look to see

if we can see some bacteria moving around in the soil. And unfortunately, although we are sending a new probe out there which is going to be there soon, this probe, the Curiosity Rover, it doesn't have a microsof like that, and that's really unfortunate. Why not, I mean, why not put this thing to rest and have the equipment on this new rover that you're sending out there. So that's very unfortunate, but he's hopeful that this rover

will find more evidence. Without being able to take video of microbes moving around in the soil, there's not going to be hard proof, but at least

more evidence which we already have that mounting more and more every day. Speaking of robotic pros, there's been some interesting news out there from another professor who wrote in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society about robots and how he thinks in order to find et we need to build self replicating robots, and he's talking about building these robots on the Moon that build themselves and they go out there and just search and search and they have the ability us a search for

signs of life and fly around and do all this discovery. Very interesting idea and what a sci fi advanced type of theory he has. In fact, he even talks about how most likely that if there are intelligent civilizations out there, they're probably doing this too. His quote is, if they're like us, they too have a dysfunctional government and all the other problems plaguing us,

they won't want to spend a lot of time to communicate with us. He thinks they'll send out robots and things, and who knows, perhaps that is largely what we see with these UFOs. We're possibly seeing probes often, So very interesting there. Before I get into some you know, more interesting UFO news, this is something really cool here, and I'm just going to give

you a little teaser. Really, this is UC Berkeley who used to manage the Allen Telescope Array, and this is your array I talked about recently that was turned off for a period of time for a lack of funding, which spawned a bunch of stories about SETI being shut down. They weren't really shut down, they just were not able to use their primary source, There's telescope array to search for signals anymore. However, they got funding and it was

put back online. Well now that Allen Telescope Array has moved management It's now going to be managed by SRII International, which is a nonprofit organization. SRII used to be the Stanford Research Institute, and that's where SRII comes from. And SRI did some interesting stuff with remote viewing. So these remote viewing people, they essentially created remote viewing. They didn't create the psychic phenomena that allowed remote viewing. They just kind of named it remote viewing. Now they are

managing the search for extraterrestrial life. I think that's really interesting. And I'm going to write a story on this that I'll have up on the Huffington Posts and I'll probably tell you more about that next week. Anderson Cooper, if you don't know, has a daytime television show now and tomorrow. He is featuring people who believe they're abducted by aliens and he's going to be talking about UFO sidings. So this is pretty exciting. Anderson Cooper his television show The

John Ventry, who is the I think it's actually venture. I've had him on the show before, but he is the Pennsylvania MoveOn director. He's going to be on the show and they're going to be talking about some sightings in that area. So that's really interesting. Anderson Cooper, if you're home during the day check it out or set your TV. You're going to want to

check that out. And you know they're going to have a couple of dictees, they're going to have UFO wines is, and hopefully they'll be taking all this seriously. It ought to be really interesting. I'm of course interested to see how that turns out. Other news CBS in Florida wrote about something that our good buddy le Spiegel wrote about recently, which is this Marine Reserve squadron pilot who in nineteen seventy five had his own UFO sighting. And this is

going to be featured in John Alexander's new book coming out. And actually Lise Spiegel of the Huffington Post wrote about this recently, so that news has spread out some more. And I guess my last piece before we go is this exciting story that actually our good buddy Jason McClellan found, and this is that the World's Fair in San Diego County is going to be called out of this

world. So the twenty twelve World's Fair or I'm sorry, not World's Fair, County Fair in San Diego I guess this Out of this World fair so really interesting. They're gonna have kind of a UFO alien themed county fair out there in San Diego. And San Diego of course has wonderful weather, so that's really interesting, and I think I need to look into checking that out because June here is a little unbearable and I'd like to drive just a few

hours to San Diego to check it out. So this is really I think that's quite fascinating. Even if you look at the picture, you know, the out and Out of this World has a picture of like kind of the head of an alien, great type of figure. So that is the news, ladies and gentlemen for this week. Because there's so much science and stuff to talk about. I really want to get into this interview with Robert Schroeder. So let's go ahead and talk to Robert. All right, I'm very

happy to have right Robert Schroeder on with me. Hello, Robert, Hi, al Andre, How you doing good? Good? How are you? How fantastic? I'm really excited to have you on the show. You know, I love to talk about the science of UFOs, and I think that's what you know, a lot of people, people don't realize there is work going on. There is more than just sightings and recording of sightings. There's great people like you doing some work out there to figure out some of the

mechanics behind some of these things. And so it's really exciting to have you on and to talk about your new book, Solving the UFNO Enigma. How modern physics is revealing the technology of UFOs. Oh yeah, thank you for having me on the show too, My pleasure. My first question, I guess, is to get into how this all came about. How was it and when was it that you started to take the UFO phenomena seriously. Okay, I can tell you I'm probably like a lot of people who've gotten involved

in the UFO phenomenon in studying it. Way back in nineteen fifty seven, I was just twelve years old, and I come from New Jersey, Northern New Jersey, a little town called Teeneck, and it's only a couple of miles west of Manhattan, a little bit west of the Hudson River. And anyway, one day, I mean and I ad met. Even though I was only twelve, I had very good eyesight, and even at that age, I loved science and in fact, I come from a family of scientists

and engineers. But I was standing out in the front yard of our house in Teeneck, and the anyway, I was in the yard and the house was on the west side of me, and I looked over at the peak of the roof of the house and I saw what looked like it was about five pm. It was around November, very very early November nineteen fifty fifty seven, and I saw what looked like a cylinder in the sky, but

looked very very high up. It looked like at about the height of jet airplanes, and it was and they had just bowling seven oh seven had just come out at that time, nineteen fifty six fifty seven. So anyway, I saw this cylinder going overhead I and I looked at it, and I thought, what the heck is that? Because I had seen plenty of airplanes, but this was the only the first time I had seen an airplane that

didn't look like it had wings, and so it totally baffled me. And it was just appearing over the peak of the roof of our house only because the house hid it, but it was obviously way way up in the sky. And then as I'm watching it, I noticed that the front of the cylinder was perfectly blunt, and the back was blun too. It was just squared off. In fact, if anything, it looked like a cigarette, but of one consistent color from front to back. It was just kind of

a gold color. And so I'm watching it, and then all of a sudden, coming over the peak of the roof of the house, comes another object, a round object that's about two lengths of the cylinder behind it the first cylinder, and they're obviously flying together in tandem, and the round object was following the cylinder of the long cylinder, and at that point helandro.

I really I realized I was looking at something really strange. And yeah, no, Sputnik had just gone up, I guess about a month before, and so my thinking, my first thought, I was just a kid, I guess. My first thought was, gee, maybe that's the rocket, and maybe that's Sputnik. But I'm trying to figure out why Sputnik would be behind the rocket. And also I couldn't figure out why the rocket would still be up there in space. Shouldn't that have fallen back down into the atmosphere.

And then I suddenly realized from you know, reading the papers and stuff, that Sputnik was only the size of the beach ball. And I knew that, And I also knew that Sputnik was about one hundred miles up, so I knew at one hundred miles there's simply no way that I could see a beach ball. And at that point, at that instant, I realized that this was something really really strange, and that's what got me going, and I just want to add one more thing and then I'll let this go.

Over the years, I began, you know, occasionally, as I had time, I began to study the UFO subject, the subject of UFOs, and one of the things that I found was that they have these waves when many, many UFOs are spotted around given area of the world, like one country or a region of countries, as in Europe, and they'll have these UFO waves that will last for you know, a couple of months or

six months, or even a year. And I discovered a few years later that there had been a gigantic UFO wave in November of nineteen fifty seven in the United States, exactly when I had seen that of those two objects, and that really got my attention, and I realized literally at that instant, that very likely we were being visited by extraterrestrial civilizations. At that instant, I knew it, and I know a lot of other people who have seen

these things have come to that realization too, under similar circumstances. But anyway, that's how I got into it in a Okay, great, yeah, interesting. I mean that sounds like an incredible signing, much more incredible than any sighting I've had. So I'm kind of jealous of you there. Oh yeah, but there will be more than yeah, I guess with your sighting. You know, sometimes people come to different conclusions other than the extraterrestrial one.

Why what makes you certain that it's an extraterrestrial phenomena? Okay, I admit that's a conjecture, but my thinking is that that we now know that there are I mean, even back then, there was a suspicion that many many stars of our type, which is called a G star and astronomical lingo, it was thought that many many other stars had planets going around them just like ours, and so my thinking was that probably intelligent creatures had evolved in

other planets as well. That's in the most likely explanation. And now, of course, most people are aware that astronomers have detected I think hundreds, if not over a thousand extrasolar planets, and they're even at the point where they're hoping to be able to get information spectrographic information on the atmosphere of planets going around other stars, and if they detect things like methane or something like that, that would be an indication of life or or probably of life.

And so so it's getting pretty exciting, and I think the science is definitely beginning to back up the conjecture that there may be other, many, many other civilizations out there, and it's just a matter of time before we detect them. And so that's my thinking. And I do realize there are other possibilities, you know, like people coming in a time machine back, you

know, from the future to the past and things like that. But I know that very you know, a very accomplished physicists like Stephen Hawking discount the possibility of time travel and they point out that and this guy's you know, he really knows the math of general relativity and stuff, and his argument is that there are certain mathematical contradictions that just wouldn't allow it. You know, it would be it'd be fun if if you could do it, but I

don't think you can. However, just the ability to go from other planets to our planet, extra solar planets to our planet is incredible enough by itself, and so I think that that alone interests me tremendously, right. Yeah, I just think it's kind of interesting because I think you can argue that

using Akham's razor, the extraterrestrial question is kind of the easiest. It is the simplest an advanced technology well beyond our own that we are witnessing, and so it kind of is the simplest answer that it's a civilization beyond our own, And I think that's why a lot of people come to that conclusion. And yeah, it's the most it's probably the most likely answer. That's kind of the way I think about it in it, But I don't totally discount

other possibilities either, I just think that they are less likely. You know, Yeah, that makes complete sense. Yeah, So my next question would be your scientific background. So you do have a background in science, I think obviously, I from listening to you, you know science very well in physics. Could you share that with us. I sure can. As I mentioned, I come from a family of scientists and engineers and my own background, I have a degree in mathematics, and I also have an associate's degree

in aerospace engineering and an MBA too on top of all that. But my family, my family has a lot of scientists and engineers in it. My dad was a research chemist and he was a graduate of MIT. And our daughter, I was a graduate from UH at Penn State, and she's a structural engineer down in the Washington, DC area, a twenty something daughter in and uh so, and then I have a lot of my brothers and sisters

are involved in science, engineering and stuff. And also many of my nephews and nieces are in one way or the other or some of them are engineers, some involved in biology or science too. And and so that's kind of my background. But I, although I I didn't work in the academic world, I worked in I actually retired from Hewlett Packard UH just a couple of

years ago, but I had worked for them for twenty seven years. I was in private industry, but UH on the side, when I had time, I spent an awful lot of UH time and effort studying what's going on in modern physics, and I just have I have to say I have an

absolute passion for science. I'm you know, I'm one of those guys that when I go shopping with my wife or or if our daughter's with us, and I go buy a magazine wreck and they have the science magazine, they'll find me there later and so but that and then and then, and they're kind of afraid to take me to a bookstore because they can't dragged out. But anyway, that's kind of who I am, you know. And yeah, so okay, given that with your your family, you're gonna you know,

family a scientists and engineers. A couple of questions before we get into your book, real quick to lend some insight. How do you how do your your family members who are in science and engineering, what do they think about your work with UFOs or about the subject. Oh okay, my two brothers are both in total agreement, and they're fascinated by the theories and everything.

My daughter, uh, she she's she's interested too, and she has she gives out copies of the book to her friends down in the DC area. And I can't say she has as much passion for the subject as I

do. Now, my my wife, who's a math teacher at high school math teacher, she's she's interested in it too, and she goes around to the presentations that I do and show you as you sit in the back and run the projector when I do the presentations, And I I can't say, like my daughter, probably my wife doesn't quite have the passion that I do. But my some of my nephews are definitely interested. And I've given them copies of the book and they come back with questions for Uncle Bob and so,

so I figure that's a good sign. And so yeah, so generally, I now my my parents have passed away. But my dad, although I should, I can't say that he spent a lot of time, you know, looking into the UFO topic, because he was pretty busy with other things, you know, I don't. I don't think he discounted it either.

So I think I think in a way it might be that the younger, younger generations have paid more attention to the UFO phenomenon, So you know, there might be kind of a generational disconnect a little bit, you know. But but any in any case, I can tell you this that you know, back in the sixties and seventies, although there was a great deal of interest in the UFO phenomenon, I find today that it's I think it's it has it's attracting more interest than it ever has, and I'm happy that

that's the case. I'm just hoping that, you know, that we can bring some hard science to it and figure it out right. And it seems that, you know, you were an example of what I try to tell people. A lot of people say, well, if there was something to this, scientist would be into it, and there are a lot of individual scientists that are into the subject, engineers and so forth. In fact, scientists really got this whole ball rolling and investigating it. There may not be

scientific organized nations or universities, and I think that's what people mean. But there is kind of this this idea that scientists aren't into this subject. And furthermore, you see a lot of science students, it seems, participating in debunking as if they feel that they're that's what they're supposed to do. Where scientists we debunk things that we see fringe as fringe like this stuff. Why do you think that idea persists you're exactly right. And I'll tell you what's

the problem is. It's the the The problem is I believe anyway that uh, way back in the fifties, and I'm not a I'm not a believer in conspiracies or anything, but I do think something did happen back then that unfortunately, you know, kind of cause the UFO phenomenon do you looked at in a very skeptical manner by professional scientists and much of the media and the

journalists. And what happened was and see a lot of people today that are younger don't may not remember what was going on back in the forties, fifties and sixties. But that was at the height of the Cold War, and the CIA was actually concerned about UFO sidings or bocus UFO sightings clocking the communications channels around the country, so that in the event of an enemy attack at that time, they were concerned that that could really weaken our ability to respond

to any threat. And so I think they made a purposeful decision to kind of debunk the UFO phenomenon and kind of ridicule it, and and the and and they succeeded. And unfortunately they've they've succeeded so well that even today we

have the lingering after effects of that. So it's so these days, any any professional scientists, and any scientist who's in the middle of his career, uh, if he starts getting involved in the UFO phenomenon studying it, no matter how sincere he is, and it's like touching the third rail, and

that could literally spell the end of his career. However, on the other hand, there's there are actually a lot of scientists that either after they retire or maybe during their working career, but anonymously, there are scientists who will, you know, take a look into this phenomenon. And I'll give you a perfect example, doctor j Allen Heinek, who was an astronomer, and he was and the advisor to the US Air Force back in the sixties and

seventies, I guess. And anyway, doctor Heinik, he was an advisor for about twenty years. And I remember, because I kind of go way back there. I remember when doctor Heinik was a total skeptic or at least publably about the UFO phenomenon. But then what happened Alejandro was he I think it was nineteen sixty seven, he wrote an article in Look magazine, and I don't know if anybody remembers Look magazine, but in that article he came

out and he realized. He admitted that he had come to the conclusion that there was something to the UFO phenomenon, and his reasoning was he had worked and interviewed so many pilots and ground personnel in the Air Force who had had encounters with UFOs of one type or another, and then on top of that, he also had pretty good evidence of nuts and bolts engineering behind the UFO phenomenon. A lot of your listeners will be familiar with the Cicaro on New

Mexico case. I'm not sure when it was back in the seventies or something sixties or seventies, but in that case, a police sergeant, denn A Cicaro on New Mexico, Lannie Zamora, spotted a UFO landing and they actually found the indentations in the soil from the landing gear. And one of the fascinating things about that that doctor was analyzed was that the location of the the

ground was uneven where the craft landed. But he he was able to figure out that whatever this craft was had a self leveling landing gear, which is a very very sophisticated type of arrangement, and and so that and anyway, after he figured that out, he realized that not only is there visual evidence of these things, radar evidence, but here on the ground there was evidence of something that clearly had an advanced landing gear system and it had left absolute

evidence of having landed at that spot. And so you know, this is simply too much to ignore. And doctor Heinech at that point that came out and admitted that he now believed that this was something that we absolutely needed to take a look at. But he's not the only scientist. There's others like doctor James McDonald and doctor James Harder, and of course Stanton Friedman. He's a nuclear physicist, he's been he's been studying the UFO phenomenon for many,

many years. And and then there's professionals like doctor Lynn Cataie, a medical doctor dan in Phoenix who's been following the UFO phenomenon now since the Phoenix Lights which she had she was an eyewitness too. So even though there are many scientists stay away from these subjects of UFOs, there are definitely others who have come out and have been willing to talk about it publicly and are willing to study it. So I don't think I saw it. There's definitely some hope

for the future here. And as we get further into our interview here, I'll show you one reason why. I'll show you a number of reasons why we may have something to really look for that could possibly settle the question of how these things function. Right and well, definitely beginning into that, but you know, just as far as what you're talking about now about these different scientists being interested and you feel, you feel that it's important how we pay

attention to this phenomena. And why is that? Oh, because I believe that by studying this phenomenon, I believe we could potentially leap frog our understanding of nature at its deepest levels. Because I think what's going on currently in modern physics, the direction of modern physics is pointing to a likely explanation of

how these UFOs work. And and if you if you take a look at what's going on in in current physics, and it's very very intriguing the what's going on because we there's now it looks like we may find evidence, for example, of extra large dimensions. And it's these extra large dimensions that are key to what I talk about in the book. They're one of the keys.

And so I think it's absolutely in my opinion, I think it's absolutely imperative that uh, you know, the scientific community, more people get involved. But the other thing that's I think is also critical, which I guess we can talk about later, but I believe we can actually if we can get spectrographic evidence or data from actual UFO sightings, we should be able to

detect a certain type of radiation. And if we do detect that type of radiation, it will virtually confirm what these things, how they function, what the technology is behind their craft. And so that's why I think this is so critical. It'll become a much more clear as we get further into this. But yeah, so we can as we go along here, all right, great, so let's get into that the modern physics and how you feel

it's revealing the technology behind the UFOs. And I'll definitely be asking a lot of questions because not everybody our mass genius is like us and understand m theory. I'm just kidding. Actually, I'm into science and I and I study and I've watched. I can't remember the name of the lady who's on a lot talking about it, and really it's something I've been having a hard time grasping. So I'll be asking you a lot of questions because hopefully through our

discussion I'll be able to understand this m theory a little better. But we'll be getting into that. But yeah, let's get into how you believe modern physics is starting to and from what you've observed, how we may be starting to understand these technologies. Okay, the lady that you referred to might be doctor Lisa Randall, Professor Randall. Yeah, I believe so is that?

Okay, yes, our physicist and she's actually her theory is critical to this what I'm talking about in the book, and so I'm glad you brought her up. But I'll tell you what I can. I can tell you first what I noticed about the UFOs, the data of the UFO data that is very, very important to understanding how they work. And now I've been I've been kind of studying physics for a couple of decades, now, you know.

When I'm on the side, I was working full time, but whenever I had a chance I was reading physics books and at the same time I was thinking about the UFO phenomenon, trying to figure out how these things worked, and like many many other people, Alejandro, I figured that they must be using anti gravity. But then as I got more and more into physics, I began to have some worries and doubts about the concept of anti gravity. And the reason for that is that the gravity is different. There's four

fundamental force in nature. They are electromagnetism, the weak nuclear force, which is responsible for a radioactive decay, the strong nuclear force, which holds the protons and the neutrons together in the nucleus and it overcomes the repulsive force of the positive protons so they don't blow apart. That's the strong nuclear force, and then gravity. So there's only those four forces electromagnetism, the weak nuclear force, the strong nuclear force, and gravity. But here's the thing that

worried me. As I was trying to relate science and physics to the UFO phenomenon, I was kind of hoping that I'd be able to figure out some kind of anti gravity. But I noticed that three of the four forces of nature have something that's called spin quantum spin, and that's just a characteristic of subatomic particles. All subatomic particles have three fundamental characteristics. They are their electric charge, their mass, and their quantum spin. And their quantum spin isn't

like everyday spin. But we don't really need to go into that. The only important thing to be aware of is that the spin of the three non gravity forces of nature, the weak nuclear force, the strong nuclear force, and electromagnetism. Oh I'm sorry, I should mention one other thing. All part of all forces are believed to be represented by a carrier particle, a

particle that carries that force. So, for example, electromagnetism is carried by the photon, the weak nuclear force is carried by the W plus W minus n z neutral bosons. Both suns are forced particles, and a strong nuclear force is carried by a particle called the glue on And you can see where the name comes from, glue meaning holding things together and anyway, these three

particles force carrier particles all have quantum spin of one. Okay, but gravity has quantum spin of two, and the three non gravity forces forced particles with quantum spin of one. Each of them have multiple charges, multiple polarity. So as people know, the electric electromagnetic force can come in positive or negative, or in terms of polarity, it can be a north pole and south

pole. And likewise, the weak nuclear force is W plus and W minus, as well as the neutral and the gluons come in what they call color, and so the color represents the different types of charge that that they can have. They have three basic colors. Physicists use the analogy. They call it red, blue, and green. But not that any of that's important,

but I mean other than to say that they have multiple charges. But the graviton, which is believed to be the is the theoretical particle that is believed to carry the gravity force, comes in only one charge, and that's positive gravity. That's it. And that had me pretty worried. I couldn't figure out, you know, how I could get anti gravity out of something that looked to be just a single polarity. As far as charge a question here, And yes, it seems like the carrier particles for the week and

the E M and the strong. We're certain of what those particles are, and we have a little more idea about the nature of those particles. But you said the graviton is theoretical, which indicates we really don't know much about gravity. Huh, well, we do, and we don't. We haven't detected the graviton yet because and I'll explain why, the main reason why we

haven't and and and you're absolutely correct. The three non gravity forces. We know a huge amount of information about them, and we've we've developed theories like quantum electrodynamics and quantum chromodynamics and things like that that as well as Maxwell's laws of electromagnetism that explain, uh, the behavior of these other forces to a

high degree of accuracy. Unfortunately, with gravity, we have a geometric theory of gravity, which is Einstein's theory of general relativity, but we don't have a quantum theory of gravity that deals at the particle level, and that's what we're trying to figure out. But everything right now points in the direction of the graviton, most likely having a single polarity and being just positive. However,

this is where data from UFO encounters UFO sightings becomes important. And this is the connection that I about a number of years ago that I made and I realized that this is critical to explaining how they work. In it. And I can tell you a particular sighting that really caught my attention. It was back in nineteen sixty six. It was at Wannaqueue Reservoir in northern New Jersey, and in the sighting, Alejandro, a police officer, or actually

several police officers, had been seeing these UFOs hovering over Wannaqueu Reservoir. But they saw something that was that when I first read their reports, I couldn't figure out what was going on. The officers reported that when the UFO was hovering about ten or fifteen feet above the reservoir, an entire massive water from the reservoir was being lifted up underneath the UFO toward the UFO, not away

from the UFO, but toward it. And the officer described He said, the UFO might have been like one hundred feet in diameter, and the massive water was probably one hundred and fifty feet in diameter underneath, and the UFO was a typical circular UFO. And he said that the water in the reservoir, literally thousands and thousands of tons of water was being lifted up as in a body where it was two or three feet above the natural level of the

reservoir. And so he just noted that in his report, and others observed it as well. He then noticed that when the object sped away and it went up over a ridge, a nearby ridge where there were a lot of pine trees, and as it was hovering over the ridge, he noticed that the tops of the pine trees were swirled, being swirled around and being pulled together, almost as if somebody had put a lot so less so around it,

and they were tightening them together. And that was another thing when I read that, that puzzled me as well, because my thinking, certainly back in the nineteen sixties, was that these UFOs had to be using anti gravity. So we shouldn't be seeing water or other objects lifted up underneath towards the UFO from the ground, nor should we see trees being pulled together underneath the

UFO. To the contrary, what we should be seeing if it had anti gravity, We should be seeing the water either level or being pushed down slightly, and or the trees being pushed apart. But we shouldn't. It didn't make any sense, and that was the critical clue as to how these things work. And so I do want me to continue or yeah, no, this is great. So anyway, I continued to read physics and stuff like that, and these stories that I had read over the years of the UFOs

actually lifting up objects from the ground. It puzzled me and puzzled me, and I just couldn't figure it out. And that was that particular story I told about Wanneque was only one of many many stories that were similar to that. So around the year two thousand, toward the end of the twentieth century, what was going on in physics is they were trying to unify the four fundamental forces of nature. That's like the fund that's like the holy grail of

modern physics. And what they're actually trying to do is so like I can give you an example. Back in the eighteen fifties, it was thought that the electric force and the magnetic force were two separate forces. But then James Clerk Maxwell proved mathematically that the electric force and the magnetic force were two aspects

of a single force, which is the electromagnetic force. And he did all the math and everything that showed that, and that math indicated that there should be waves or particles that travel at the speed of light, and that, of course is what we call lightwaves, and so over the years and then nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties and forties, if physics learned more and more and they unraveled nature further and further, and I think by the nineteen seventies,

maybe by the early eighties, they had managed to unite not only the electric and magnetic force into electroneticism, but they also united theoretically and experimentally the electromagnetic force and the weak nuclear force, and that's referred that unification is referred to as the electroweak force. And the actually seen this electroweak force in particle accelerators when they do experiments, so they know that, so they know that the

theory matches the experiment, which is very very important. Now they're working on trying to unite the strong nuclear force with the electroweak force, so that would if they can do that, that will actually be three of the four forces united, and they call that theory the Grand Unified theory. It's only the non gravity forces. So far, they haven't been able to do it, but they have some theories that look promising and they might eventually get it.

But the odd man out and all of these attempts to unify the forces of nature is the force of gravity. And the question is why is the force of gravity the one that they can't bring into any of these attempts at unification. And the reason is, and this is critical to understand to understanding gravity, The reason is is because gravity is much much weaker than the other forces of nature, and in fact, and in fact, Alexandro, it's exponentially weaker, and so much so let's say, I've got a chart here.

I'm just going to dig it out here. It is okay, just to give you an idea, the electromagnetic force is ten to the thirty six power stronger than the gravity force. So let me put that in in like a number that people can see or visualize. Imagine one, the number one followed by thirty six zeros. You can imagine that's a big number. If you won that at the casinos in Las Vegas and dollars, you'd be, you know, in the whole world. And it has been one of the things

that's difficult for me to understand it. And and you know, I've listened to Miss Randall talked about gravity being a weak force, and of course, in our daily lives we're dealing with gravity constantly. And gravity seems pretty strong. I mean gravity called us to the planet. You know, gravity has a lot of effects on us, so it for a person, that apparently seems to be a pretty strong force. So to think of these other forces being so much stronger. Is there an example of that? I guess maybe

yes, I can. It's kind of a plunky example, but this will illustrate it. If you have a pen or a pencil, hold it up and or and then and then drop it into your hand, Okay, and that's the force, that's the entire planet Earth pulling on that pencil and it and yet you can stop it with your hand if you just drop the pencil into your hand, hold your hand up above the table, and and so

you may think that's trivial, but it's not. If that pencil, instead of being just in a gravity field, but if that pencil had been an electron and the planet Earth down below was a proton, So then you'd be dealing with the electroc metic force. If you did that same example there and you drop the electron into your hand, you could kiss your hand goodbye. The electron would literally go right. It wouldn't even notice your hand. I mean, it would just your hand would be severed, and and and it's

it would just be you'd never see it again. And uh and so I know it's kind of a clunky example, but it shows you how weak the gravity force is. And and it's it's incredibly weak. It's so incredibly weak that it's one of the problems in modern physics. And in fact, they actually even have a name for it. And this is important to the solution to the UFO enigma. So every the listeners should you know, pay attention to this problem. It's the weakness of gravity versus the other forces of nature

is referred to as the hierarchy problem. And nobody currently knows exactly why gravity is so weak compared to the other forces. It just doesn't seem to make any sense. And that's why it's so difficult to study gravity, because it's so incredibly weak. Even though I admit that getting up out of bed in the morning can be tough, but nevertheless, a relative to the other forces

of nature, gravity is incredibly weak. And now we get into the solution to to one of the big issues in the UFO enigma, and it relates directly to the hierarchy problem. And so what happened then I have to backtrack a little bit here. What happened during the last couple of decades of the twentieth century was a number of physicists were working on many, many different theories, and they were of course trying to figure out why gravity is so weak,

and they were trying to unify the forces and stuff like that. And originally, for most of the twentieth century, it was believed that subatomic particles like electrons were infinitesimally tiny, little dimensionless points. But they were having a lot of problems with the math. They were ending up with mathematical infinities when they were considering that when they thought that all these subatomic particles were dimensionless points.

But finally, back in the seventies, I believe they discovered or they started developing, a new theory called string theory that proposes that all the subatomic particles, instead of being dimensionless points, are actually one dimensional strings that are wiggling. And these are incredibly tiny strings. But it was a fantastic advanced because one of the things, one of the big things that it solved, was a lot of the problems with the infinities that they were mathematical infinities,

because now you had something that actually had a dimension. And so this string theory continued on, and it evolved in the seventies, eighties and the nineties, and by about nineteen ninety five it had evolved to a new theory which was not exactly string theory but incorporated string theory. And this new theory or actually group of theories, is referred to as M theory M theory, and includes not only wiggling strings, but it also includes two dimensional, three dimensional,

four dimensional membranes. And so that's where that's where we are right about now. And and so currently, you know, over the last decade or so, physicists have been working on improving M theory and trying to figure more things from M theory. But so M theory is actually a group of theories. But one of the theories that comes out of M theory is called actually, I don't think it has an actual name, but it's called eleven D E eight by E a theory. You know, you don't have to worry

about that. That's really the eight number refers to certain symmetries. And I don't want to get into that because that will take to want to explain. But what M theory is basically proposing, or one of these theories that comes out of M theory, is that we may live all of the universe that you can see around us, the distant stars, distant galaxies, we may live on a four dimensional space time membrane. And it's thought that this space

time membrane is floating in a larger five dimensional space time. So the best way to visualize this would be to take a piece of paper, and of course we live in three spatial dimensions, not counting time. And now just take up a piece of paper in your hand, and eight and a half by eleven piece of paper, and just hold it up, and you can visualize that as an analogy. The paper's only two dimensions, but you can think of that as the space time four dimensional space time membrane we live in.

And you can see that as it can float around in front of you in the air, in the three dimensional air in front of you. And that's exactly what they think something along those lines, that our entire universe is sitting on a four dimensional membrane that's floating around in a larger five dimensional space time. And it's thought that at least one other space time four dimensional space time membrane is existing out there as well. That's parallel to the space time

membrane that we live on. And here's where it gets interesting as far as the UFO phenomenon goes. Doctor Randall from Harvard University was one of her. One of the things that she was working on was trying to solve the hierarchy problem. So she and another physicist, doctor Ramond Syndrome from John Hopkins University, they came up with a theory that is referred to as warped geometry. And let me just get a drink of water here for a second. Yeah,

no problem. I like that name. And I'll make another note while you're getting some water, is that this drink theory. One of the people who work on it is Mitchell Okaku, famous theoretical physicists who also believes that UFOs deserved to be researched some more. But just a little aside while you're getting a drink. Oh yes, thank you for mentioning it, because he's one of the few practicing physicists who's been willing to stick his neck out and

suggests that we really should be looking at this phenomenon. But anyway, warped geometry theory that doctor Randall and doctor Sundram came up with. They postulate that the four dimensional membrane that we live on, they call it the weak membrane w E a K. And the week relates to the weak nuclear force, which is kind of the energy level that our membrane around, the energy level that exists on our membrane that we live on. And so this is all

explained a little more in more detail in my book. But then they thought that maybe the other membrane that's parallel to ours is warped in such a way that it attracts ninety nine point nine percent of all the gravity in the universe to its surface, and that then explains the hierarchy problem. Here's what's going

on. So they what their theory says is that the strength of gravity becomes exponentially greater the further away you get from the weak brain, the four dimensional membrane that we live on that our universe is in, and it gets and gravity gets exponentially stronger as you get closer to the gravity membrane, which is believed it's also referred to as the plank membrane p L A n c K named after Max Plank, a German physicist who was one of the founders of

quantum mechanics. But anyway, what's exciting about this is that it explains why gravity is so much weaker than the other forces of nature, because it turns out that many of these m theory sub theories believe that all the particles in nature, all the subaton particles, whether there are matter particles like an electron, or whether they're forced particles like a photon, are open strings, and the two ends of that string are thought to be attached to the four dimensional

membrane that we live on, the weak membrane in doctor Randall's theory, so that they cannot leave the four dimensional universe that we live in. However, of all the forces in nature and matter particles, there is one force particle that is believed not to be an open string but to be a closed loop,

okay, and that is the graviton. And because the graviton is believed to be a closed loop, it's two ends, so it doesn't have two open ends, which would be stuck on the four D membrane like all the other particles that were used to so that would allow the graviton of all the other particles in nature force in matter particles, It would allow the graviton, and only the graviton to travel to go anywhere it likes in the five dimensional

space time. So it actually leaves our four dimension most of them anyway, leave our four dimensional space time membrane and travel into the what they call the bulk bulk, which is considered that space between the weak membrane where we live and the strong membrane, I mean the strong gravity membrane, the plank brain, which is worth than that's attracting most of the gravitons in the larger five

dimensional universe, and that explains why gravity is so weak. Virtually every graviton in the universe is much closer to the gravity brain than it is to the four dimensional weak membrane where our universe is located, and that's why gravity is so weak. However, here's this is the this, this is the solution

to a big piece of the UFO question enigma. I believe these UFOs have figured out how to get how to leave our weak membrane and penetrate into that into the bulk, that five dimensional space between these two other membrane, these two membranes, and if they are able to do that, that's how they're able to get to other star systems. Here's how they do it. General

relativity tells us that when gravity is strong, that distances shrink. Okay, so if you're in a strong gravity field, then the stronger the gravity field, the shorter the distance or what they call geodesic is between two points, it gets smaller and smaller. And that's exactly how I think these UFOs are going from one star system to another. They're penetrating into this bulk, and they go deep enough in Alejandro to the point where the distance between other stars

is very small. And I actually was able to do a calculation to demonstrate how effective this would be. If all they have to do is go in as far into the bulk where the force of gravity is only one ten thousandth as strong as its maximum strength, and just that short distance going into the five to men bulk, the distance between our star and Alpha Centauri, the closest star system to us, shrinks to just twenty five miles. Isn't that

amazing? And so that's how I think they would have to accumulate this massive amount of gravity or relatively, I guess large amount of gravity to do that. I'm going to explain that next. But that's a very good question. That's a very good question. I'm glad. I didn't want to overwhelm the audience and everything with too much physics. You know, I needed a little break there, and you provided it there. You're exactly right. How the heck do they get in there? Well, I believe I know how they

get in there. They if the theories if m theory and if warped geometry, the one of the theory of doctor Randall and doctor Sundrome. If these theories are correct, one of the things that they expect to find are a certain modes of particles, because particles that if this extra dimension exists, this

fifth dimension, then they believe that any gravitons. They believe that there are certain gravit a type of graviton called a Kaluza Kleine graviton is going to exist that will be much much stronger than the ordinary massless graviton that carries the gravity force here on our four dimensional membrane. So what they believe is that, uh, these gravitons are able to vibrate in this fifth dimension, and the

more they vibrate, they can go into different mos that can vibrate. They can oscillate once or twice or three times, all the way up to hundreds of times, you know. And the more times that they oscillate than in that extra dimension, the greater the energy that they have, and that energy can translate into mass. And so it's believed that these kk guziklion gravitons, some of them will have mass, and not only that, but they'll be

tremendously they'll have tremendously powerful gravitational attraction and only attraction. And it's believed that their gravitational attraction will be on the order of the most powerful ones will be on the order of ten to the sixteen power stronger than the ordinary graviton that we're used to in everyday life. So imagine a graviton that is stronger by a factor of one, followed by sixteen zeros Okay, not one hundred times more stronger, not a thousand, ten million, not ten billion, but

a gazillion, gazillion gazillion. And so these are going to be incredibly powerful gravitons. And I believe what these so we expect to be creating these Kalusikling gravitons in a large hadron collider, and they should be very we should be able to detect them because these KK gravitons will in turn create micro black holes, and so everybody's probably heard of these micro black holes. But these Michael

black holes, in turn, they won't last very long. Ago only last for much much less than less than a nanosecond nanosecond, and these micro black holes would decay quickly. However, when they decay, they'll put out a certain type of radiation called Hawking radiation. And so we should be able to detect that at the large Hadron collider particle accelerator over in Geneva, Switzerland. That accelerator won't reach full power until I think twenty fourteen, but it's potentially

possible we might create some micro black holes in it before then. And so anyway, I believe the way these things are working, Alejandra, is they are I think one of the reasons, as I mentioned earlier in the interview, the reason why they are circular. They always have some part or aspect of the craft that's circular. In other words, the craft will either be

cylindrical. These UFOs, it'll be either cylindrical, it'll be a sphere, or it'll be a disc, a flying saucer, or it might be one of these triangle UFOs, but it will have large, brightly lit circles in each corner. And I believe the reason that they all have a circular aspect to them is because these flying saucers are particle accelerators. That's what I think they are. And here's where it here's where the whole thing comes together.

I believe what they're doing these they're smashing subatomic particles together in the rim area of these UFOs, and they are first creating KK gravitons, which in turn induce the creation of microblank coals. And these micro black holes are very very important because I see, I've been looking in physics archives. You can go to these sites on the web where physicists post discussions about the work that they're

doing or the theories that they're working on. And one of the things I've been doing is going into these sites that talk about micro black holes and micro Now here's and now this is where it gets real exciting, and this is how the UFOs work. And so it's This is where you definitely want to pay attention of a audience, because this is how I believe they work, and and I believe we can prove it by gathering a certain certain types of

data. But it turns out when I studied these papers that physicists were writing about micro black holes, which we think we're going to be creating in the large age of collider, one of the things that I noticed was that they

talked about how these micro black holes would absorb everything in sight. Okay, and the thought occurred to me, I said, I thought to myself, I said to you, if they absorb, if the micro black hole can absorb like a molecule of air, if it can absorb a photon, that's what they mean when they see a black hole, they mean things going into it can't get out, so it appears black as far as we can't see it. And however, actually in reality they're not black, but that's not

important right now. But anyway, these micro black holes, I realized, we're absorbing everything. And the thought occurred to me, if they're absorbing electrons and protons and atoms and molecules of air and dust, any kind of junk. This line near the UFO then, but they also absorb gravitons, the four D gravitons that the Earth emits, and those gravitons are what keep us

pin to the Earth. So I wondered about that, and so I kept reading these papers, and sure enough, I soon came across some papers that just as an aside, they mentioned that these micro black holes are swallowing four dimensional gravitons. Okay, that in and of itself is very exciting because it means that these gravitons are being swallowed by micro black holes. In otherwis the UFOs were able to get rhythm. But what I was worried about is when

a micro black hole decays. When it decays, does it emit four dimensional gravitons. Well, it doesn't, And in fact, the only thing it emits back on to the four dimensional membrane, the weak membrane that we live on, is hawking radiation, which does not include gravitons. However, However,

here's the here's the key. Most of the energy that's absorbed by the micro black hole, when the micro black hole decays, most of that energy is emitted not back onto our four dimensional membrane, but goes into the five dimensional bulk. That is, we don't even see it on our four dimensional membrane. It just disappears, and it actually ends up as five dimensional gravitons and other stuff that's dumped into the bulk. And that's what they do.

Now, these are theories, but I believe they're correct and or at least they're on the right track. And so that explains how UFOs work. What they're doing is they're creating these millions, millions, perhaps of these micro black holes that are absorbing any gravitons that are emitted by Planet Earth and any gravitons

that are emitted by the UFO itself. So all these gravitons are sucked up by the micro black holes and dissipated either back as Hawking radiation onto our four dimensional membrane or they disappear from our world entirely and go into the five dimensional bulk. And so what this means, what this means, Alejandro, is that this is not anti gravity. Instead, it is reducing the gravity force to near zero. And that's how these UFOs are eliminating the force of gravity.

And that's how they're doing it. All right, So we're about out of time already we've but I guess to get to the area because I know one important aspect of what you've talked about is how we prove this and how we would be able to detect whether or not this is the technology they're using. And that's and that is the most exciting thing of all. And if and if if I won the lottery and had the money, I'd do it

myself. So I'm working on winning the lottery. But yet they but I see that, and and this is really exciting because if these UFOs are particle accelerators, if they are creating kk graph tons, and if they are inducing the creation of micro black holes that are swallowing, swallowing the four dimensional grapht tons from our planet and from the UFO itself, the then when those micro black holes decay, they should give off something that is referred to as hawking

radiation. Now, hawking radiation kind of looks like a normal curve, but it's but it'll be at a specific temperature, and and and and and this is also exciting. No, although hawking every all physicists are virtually most physicists believe that hawking radiation exists. It was predicted by doctor Professor Stephen Hawking. And but nobody has ever seen hawking radiation. They are hoping to see it

in the Large Hadron collider. But what if those of us who are studying the UFO phenomenon are able to put together the spectroscopic devices to detect hawking radiation and and actually and if we you know, occasionally they'll have UFO waves in

a particular area, like the Phoenix lights. And uh so, for example, let me give a perfect, perfect example here when doctor Lynn Katai, when she was on her alcony, she spotted three orbs a UFO orbs that were probably only I don't know, maybe a couple hundred yards from her house in near Phoenix or in Phoenix. And if she had had one of these spectrographic devices and had been able to point it at the UFO, she could

have gathered this critical data that would have allowed us we could have analyzed it and seen if these UFOs were emitting Hawking radiation. If incredibly, if those of us were studying the UFO phenomenon, if we are the first to detect hawking radiation and confirm it with a couple of other sightings around the country or around the world. Then this would be a showstopper. It would. It

would this is the most amazing part of all. It would actually if if the scientific community then came agreed that this was worth taking a look at, they put together their own UH teams of people to go and detect this UH the radiation being omitted by UFOs, and they too detected Hawking radiation. Then I can tell you at that point we virtually know we can almost say for certain how these UFOs function, how they work, and and and so I

want to point out one more thing too. A number of investigators over the years have been trying to figure out what kind of radiation is omitted by UFOs. And one of the UH top guys who investigated these things was doctor Paul

Hill. He's a NASA scientist and he's he was an early UFO investigator and doctor Hill, although he his his book was published post morton after he died, he investigated them what type of radiation was coming out of these UFOs, and he found evidence of gamma rays, X rays, and higher frequency light emissions in the visible spectrum. Now, gamma rays and X rays, of course, they're not in the visible spectrum. They're outside of that, but

he did have evidence of gamma rays. And this is very exciting because it turns out that one of the things that Stephen Hawking predicted is that when micro black holes or any type of when micro black holes decay, they he expects them to emit bursts of gamma rays. And here they and here we already have evidence of gamma rays from actual UFO sightings. In fact, many people in the audience will be familiar with a guy with the name of Stephen nick

Alock. I think that's how you pronounce his name. He was a Canadian prospector or amateur prospector, and he approached a UFO that had landed on the ground, and he walked up to it, and he tried to communicate with

it, you know, but he got no response or anything. But as he was standing next to it, the outer rim of this thing was rotating and something like a vent came directly in front of him, and it had a grid pattern on the vent, and he said, suddenly there was a blast of hot air from the vent to hit him in the chest and it ignited his clothes, his shirt and he had to rip off his shirt because it was burning and then he ran, he ran away from this thing and

it took off. He finally made his way back to civilization because he was up in the hills and I think it was in British Columbia or someplace out there. And anyway, doctors examined him and they finally concluded that he had been exposed to a brief burst of gamma rays. Isn't that interesting? And he's not isn't that interesting? So here we have virtually first hand evidence that these things are emitting gamma rays and certainly the other types of radiation too,

But that's key to the decay of micro black holes gamma rays. And there aren't many ordinary sources of gamma rays in the natural environment. They do occur on a very small scale with radioactive decay, and you know, like a like a granite rock may have an occasional gamma ray come out of it, but not in the kind of concentrations that burn uh Stephen Mclock up in Canada

there. And that's yeah, I was just go ahead, I'm sorry, yeah, and oh yeah, yeah, so what I'm uh so my objective here and and I hope there are listeners out there that perhaps have expertise in the use. They have access to an expertise in the use of spectrographic equipment, and perhaps we can put together an organization of volunteers or that we could get out there in the field and and try to detect this hawking radiation if it's being admitted by these UFOs, and I should I should add one caveat

here. Uh. Unfortunately, spectrographic equipment could be a little expensive because the visible spectrum is probably relatively inexpensive that type of equipment, But detecting gamma rays and X rays and stuff like that would be a bit more complicated, and you would have to calibrate or correlate all of the emissions from the UFO because

the different types of equipment would gather the emissions in different ways. And so it's somehow, But I'm sure there are experts out there that can figure out how to do that, because they're already trying to do that at the Large Hadron Collider, So I'm sure there are experts that know how to correlate the

data from different sources of different types of instruments, you know. But anyway, that's the objective, that's the goal, that's what I hope to achieve by doing these talks on online radio shows and around the country, you know, wherever I can get a general it's some interest in this, but anyway, that's the goal. This has been really interesting. I think you've been able to describe your theory, and of course your book is on Amazon Solving

the UFO Enigma. And then how would people get a hold of you if they wanted to. Oh, my email is Bob Ufo at aol dot com. Okay, Bob Ufo at aol dot com. I'd love to hear from people that you know might be able to help out on trying to you know, who have access to this type of equipment or expertise in the use of it. That would be terrific. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Yeah, thank you for having me and much appreciated.

All Right, Bobufo at aol dot com if you have a gamma ray detector or if you are interested in contacting him on his ideas. So what a great show. Thank you so much Robert Schroeder for being on the show. Check out his book UFOs and Modern Physics. You can find it on Amazon. As for the show, we are out of time. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to visit visit ufodailynews dot com that's ufodailynews dot com for all of your latest UFO news, including those stories we talked about

earlier in the show. Thank you so for so much for listening, and we will talk to you next week. Ash