Hello, and welcome to Open Mind JOFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin Goofy. Willis me. Yeah, you're you're being kind of goofy this morning. See look wow uh yeah uh, I like that about myself. Yeah, that's a good thing by far. Yeah. I don't want to take life seriously at all anymore. That's it. I'm done. Really, is there something recently that has pushed you to this? Aliens are here? Oh wow? And what gave you
that revelation? Well? I also heard that a certain gentleman that I can probably just tell you this without identifying him, is now stating that there are beings inside the sun? Have you heard that one? That? What's that song that reminds me of? This song? Is that children of the Sun, Children of the Sun, something like that. And the people that you know, like follow him are like okay with that? Really that's strange.
Yeah. See, I didn't say you were going to give that something like that was going to be your motivation, because if that truly does convince you, then I think you've got a problem. That that's that's You're weird. Oh oh I've got problems. Yeah, no, but to be honest, one of the most compelling people to discuss, you know, possible alien visitors was when your guests, your last guest, the Aerial School witness, I
know, how so long. Yeah, I'm getting a lot of feedback, more than I've ever gotten for any show I've ever done since I've started. Yeah. Well, we had you know, Emily Trim and other witness at our conference. You were there, I think, right, yes, I was. It was very emotional. It was actually really good. Yeah, that was amazing. So you know, when they these guys were children having this strange experience where they see a creature and then now being older, they
can just I guess articulated a bit more. But uh, it's just it's just so fascinating. Yeah. And last week's the guest I had on my show, semmer CIDK. I'm telling you, she was so well spoken, and I've, like I said, I've had never had so much feedback from someone being on my show. And you know, by the time you get done listening to her, it's like, wow, you know, I am totally convinced that, you know, what she's saying is true. How cool?
That's really cool. Interesting. So my show today we should probably get into And of course we talked a lot about Tom DeLong and stuff, but one of the cases in that press conference was about this USS nimic, this Navy case. And one of the experts on that case, or at least someone who's investigated that a lot, is Robert Powell. Good friend. I've had him on the show a few times before because he's so credible and interesting and he's done some cool stuff. So he and I are discussing that Nimetz
case and some other stuff on the show today. Wow. I really like Robert. He's really, really, very scientific, and he's in person, down to earth guy, and he's done some really cool stuff in relation to this case. Really, I'm really excited to listen. Yeah, you should be, Oh, you should be. Don't make me goofy. It's funny because you know, I can't help but help, but be goofy. And
maybe that's why we get along because you're goofy too. But it's sometimes when the topics are serious, you know, like last time was Leslie Kane and this time it's Robert, and it's interesting stuff. You know, there's a tinge of guilt because I know some of them would like us to get to the serious stuff and maybe like to skip the goofy, but they can fast forward. But I just you know what, I couldn not be goofy even if I tried really hard. All right, So Goofy the Goofy UFO show.
So anyway, we don't get too goofy though we have fun, but we of course cover some very serious stuff, which is why you're here. Because you are the UFO news man. I'm you're supposed to bring us some good UFO news every week, and I hope that you have something today. I am coming at you here from the state of Maine. I have this great story. Nice well, I forget how the announcers voice. I can't always do that too well. But anyway, I love love this the story.
This is Star Trek's creators Sun discuss the UFOs and Aliens, and that is Gene Roddenberry's son Eugene. Wow At what a great video that is. And I'm glad you liked it. I really do. And that was by Jeremy Corbel. I believe actually this interview and some of the things he says is he's very intelligent. By the way, you can tell right away very well spoken, and he's you know, basically saying, you know that he believes that there is life on other planets and that he helps us super and
evolved and intelligent and have chosen not to interfere with us. That's what he basically believes. That he doesn't think they're going to interfere with us. When when asked if he was afraid, also, I love this question. If you had one thing to say to an alien, what would you say? And he basically says, how did they get where they are today, assuming of course that they are more advanced than us? And you know, he wanted to know this because it gives us hope that we could also evolve one
day as well, you know, similar. But it's a great interview. I hope the listeners check it out. And it's uh was posted the other day and right on Openminds dot TV. I'm glad you liked it because I liked it too. It's fun. You know, a lot of us, of course, are Star Trek fans, and it's always hit or miss when you post anything about a celebrity, because there are those celebrity haters out there who love to say, what do we care about? What? They have
to say. But you know, I think that especially how this guy has lived with Star Trek his entire life and had aliens part of his life, I think that makes it really interesting. And he's very nice, and he's very encouraging, like he's saying, you know, UFO guys, you know, get out there and do it. And so that was really cool. I did like that video, and so that's why I was really excited to
kind of summarize it and post it. And he also says, you know, if just one of the UFO sightings, and there are so many, you know, they have to you know, at least one of them has to be real. And if that's real, then you know that's this is big. It really means something. Mm hmm. Yeah. So, and also I think Star Trek, you know, whether people like it or not, is very very It has been a very important thing because it's actually encouraged
so many scientists or people to look into space. And you know, I heard I watched a documentary and on that and Star Trek is big. It's really big in a lot of people's pasts and have encouraged them to, you know, instead of going to something else, you know, going into say astrophysics or something like that. You know exactly astronomy, Yeah, exactly,
which makes it really important. And you know what I always find fascinating too, And I often ask the directors and writers that I interview, some of which you know people have heard actually a couple of times, probably on the show. Is it seems that every well I think maybe you and I have talked about that, but every version of the future that is portrayed, especially
the distant future, always includes aliens. Hmm. Wow. Yeah, and so it almost seems like it's this subconscious like, uh, expectation that we all have for the future. I think it's pretty realistic myself. Actually. So another cool thing this was really neat is uh And I guess we didn't talk about this because you were you were surprised when you saw it posted, and I thought we had talked about it, but I guess not. It is Newsweek, this special edition that's out right now, Life Beyond Earth,
question Mark the mis to find the Answer. So you're like, Okay, it's Newsweek this it's going to have some great articles about NASA and astrobiology and how they're looking for microbes in space or something. But you open up the pages and you see a bunch of UFO weirdos like me. That's right. So they covered a lot of actual weirdos. I'm kidding, but a UFO research, they covered, abduction, they covered. Actually, what was impressive
is they covered a lot of topics. They only touched on a lot of them, but they covered a lot of topics, mostly about UFO research and alien abduction and stuff like this, mixed in with some stories like you would
expect the NASA stories, the set SETI stories and stuff like that. But they treated them all very well across the board, and it was so cool that they did that, you know, mixed up these stories and took it all very seriously because of course, the researchers they covered take it all very seriously, and many of whom are very very interesting and I think have you know, interesting things to share. So it was a lot of fun.
It was really cool. People can go to their grocery store. If you can't find it at your grocery store, then you can go to Barnes and Noble or something and they'll have it there. But I've found it in the grocery stores out here. The Newsweek special edition just on the newsstands Life Beyond Earth, and at one of the last pages they recommend a few books and they recommend this podcast. I know. I couldn't believe it. How cool
is that? Wow? That is amazing with your logo and everything, talk about free advertising, the logo and everything, and your subtitle that you put in there is Newsweek's special edition covers UFOs and the search for Aliens in a Pod of Light. And that's just exactly what it is. Which is so good to see something like that. Yeah and weird. Huh. Yeah, it's I would have never expected it. Actually, definitely a very pleasure.
Have you been able to pick it up yet? I have not, but I'm going to get down to Boston in a couple of days and pick one up. I'm in the main Woods, you know. So here's a story that I haven't covered. I didn't even post it in my headlines, but I want to talk about it here on the show because it's so funny, and that is this guy. There's a ranch out here that is supposedly this you know, UFO ranch type of thing and where there's aliens and stuff like
that. And I'm going to bring up this story and one of the reasons I didn't cover it or anything is because it is a U. K. Tabloid story, and for the most part, I haven't been covering those, even though you and I have been actually speaking more positively of these people as of late, because they've done some a few kind of interesting stories here and there. But here it is. So it's in the Daily Mail, of course, you know they've got all of their racy stuff there. But and
people won't ask me about this guy. And you've probably heard the name John Edmonds. People do they ask you about this doesn't sound familiar? Okay, So he's got this ranch out here in Buckeye where he said he's like slain eighteen aliens with a Samurai sword because they keep harassing him. And it used to be one. See my girlfriend Karen, she actually went out there to
investigate and meet the guy. And back then, you know, his claims were totally different because they're made up goofy stuff, unfortunately, and people believe the guy and it's sad that he lies and everything, but obviously he is. So it used to be one alien, but now I guess he told the Daily Mail he's killed eighteen of them because for twenty years, they've been
attacking him at his ranch and his wife Joyce. So his wife Joyce when of course she when my girlfriend went out there and she's thinking of writing a story. I hope she does. I'd love to post it on open Minds where she shares her experience. You know, Joyce had said that she didn't remember anything or happening to her, but now she tells the Daily Mail that
she was molested by an alien in her sleep. But one of the reasons his story is up is they're trying to sell their ranch for five million dollars and their goofy alien story has gotten some press lately. So originally they listed their property for one million dollars, but they say because of their Internet and TV fame as of Light, they raised the price to five million dollars.
Now does this include the eighteen alien carcasses? Well, I guess we would find out, because if you would be able to find out is the alien are the alien experiences due to the location or them personally? And you know what if this was real and then they leave and they find out, you know, they get an apartment, but they still have all these aliens attacking their apartment because it's them and not the property. Well, you know, he started it. He's slain the alien to begin with, mm hmm.
But yeah, it's funny because Karen had gone out there where it was after he had slain an alien, and you know, there was there's no evidence he could point to, but he provided a picture to them of his samurai sword in like this what looks like a kind of a pool of blood or something. Yeah, not to my girlfriend back there, but now they seem to have this as or as they did didn't have it before, and uh
so it's kind of funny, this samurai sword. They feel like they've been using really wild, crazy goofrey stories and it's kind of big out here because people will say, have you been out there? You know, have you gotten into it? And of course, as my listeners would know, this is not something I would really take seriously to begin with, unless there was some reason to. But yeah, really really wild stuff, so people can might run across that story. Now, realistically, did he actually when he's
he's slain these aliens? If he actually did, wouldn't he like be pretty excited to show a body of a real slain alien to someone I don't know what he says he does with the bodies. Wow. So she says, I Karen here, and she said he told her that they disappear. Of course they do. Yeah yeah, that's yeah, kind of like the movie. That makes sense. Yeah yeah, but I guess the blood used to disappear, but apparently it's not disappearing anymore. Well, yeah, after you
get up you know, over sixteen aliens, it doesn't disappear anymore. Yeah, probably. Yeah, coating and all that must be. Wow, pretty funny, pretty crazy stuff. So people are going to run across this. And you know, for those of you who have been wondering if I take John Edmond's case seriously, because I get asked that occasionally and I do share that, I do not take it seriously. And yeah, the story's changed, and for five million dollars you can buy his ranch. But I have
a feeling being in the real estate market myself. And when I told you know, Karen, my girlfriend who does real estate with me, she gets bummed when people don't use her at that for real estate. And I was like, you're going to be bummed because your buddy, John Edmonds is not only using you to list his estate, and he's asking for five million dollars,
which is not going to get anyway. Well, you know, just having a little bit of knowledge in real estate, I can tell you that, you know, even it has to be someone like an a celebrity before or a real historic home before it's going to make any difference in price. Yeah. By the way, were these aliens possibly from the sun? Just trying to tie this all in together? Children of this? Uh? I heard they're pretty hot too? Yeah, sorry, that's cute. Yeah, sorry, Yeah, a little joke. I am goofy, so I had
to think of something that was a goofy joke, that's for sure. Yeah, joke should be not that I'm aware of. I do not believe that's the case, even though it is so hot here it feels like you're living in the sun. I do believe they're from the sun. Yeah, isn't that weird? But you know, getting back to the people in the sun
thing, because there is I don't know. It's difficult because if the person is who I think it is, he keeps making these really bombastic claims that are really wild and out there, and some of them, for instance, there's a guy who follows him and says, oh you know, he got another UFO photo and deid to give it away over mcdeial Air Force Base. They're balloons, you know, and if these pictures would have been posted, like to our UFO newsgroup, we would have all said it's a balloon.
In one case it was long and skinny. It was totally one of those solar balloons. And so they're balloons. And actually mcdeal Air Force Base. I think we talked about this, wrote a story and made fun of the whole thing because they somehow ran across that he was doing this, so they posted something on the website making fun of it. And I don't know, there are groups, there's people like him and others and their followers just really
throw discernment out the window exactly right. Yeah, it's like they're almost like they're grasping for something. You know. It's really psychologically difficult to understand it is until you just put it in the realm of religion. And because you know, a lot of religions are very similar, a lot of new religions pop up. That's why I did that talk about UFOs and religions at the conference, and it's one of them. I like, because the whole belief
thing is intertwined. And you know, a lot of people will say, I don't like this, I believe I know. Well, no, you do believe, and we do believe, and we can't just I think it's dangerous for us to make blanket statements like that. You may know because you've witnessed something, and maybe you do know because of your experiences, but the terminology of belief is still accurate because, for instance, if you ask a scientist about dark matter, they would need to say I believe dark matter is
real or I believe it's not. It's still the proper terminology dark matter is when I bring up because we can't prove there is such a thing as dark matter. We can prove that there's something similar something going on, but dark matter might not be what's causing these observed anomalies or phenomena, and so, yeah, believe it is a big deal. We all believe different things,
and we all may be right or wrong. But yeah, when I guess your beliefs get so counter to reality where you just kind of throw it, throw it out the window and you want to call a balloon an alien spacecraft from the sun or something. So what airbase did you say this was where it is located mcdeial mcdeal's kind of a big deal. It's where they make But is that last Vegas? No, it is in Florida. Sorry,
I was stalling because I was looking it up. So I was stalling with those terrible jokes and puns and stuff while I was trying to look up where it was. Tampa in Florida. Yeah, okay, right, all right, yeah, how about that? Yeah? Well, interesting stuff. But otherwise let's see, uh for the UFO news that is out there, there is some interesting stuff. There have been some little events going on here and there. And you know what's funny, Travis always gets in the news,
Travis Walton so often. And he was just out somewhere showing off his movie. And it is so funny that they cover him so often, right, I mean, isn't he in the newsweek article as well? Yeah, he is in the newsweek as well. But he's always out there somewhere. I mean, he's traveling doing talks in so many places that the local news will often write a little story about a UFO guy coming. And that's how he gets in the news so much. And all these local papers and everything.
Hm Wow. But you know what, we haven't even announced this. We're gonna have some really cool Travis Walton stuff. Travis Walton, it's kind of a recurring thing at the UFO Congress, one of very few, but it's partially because we know him so well and he's out here in Arizona. And you know, Karen, my girlfriend, did run his fortieth anniversary event, and she did a ton of work in kind of unearthing a lot of witnesses no one has ever talked to before, and so we're going to be bringing
one of or two of those to the conference. One of those is the police officer that the guy's first talk to, and this guy's awesome, straight shooter, pretty elderly he is, he is, Yeah, so this will be fun. And then also Travis's brother and he shares what it was like for the family and they have some interesting stories. So we're out of time, but yeah, that's going to be really cool. But thanks for joining us for the news again, buddy, Yeah, you bet you. And
let's go ahead. After this short break, we'll be speaking with Robert Powell. Welcome back. You're listening to Open Mind UFO Radio and I am here once again. With Robert Powell. Hi, alijndro It's good to talk to you again. Yeah, it's good to have you back your frequent guests.
But I'm a big admirer of your work. Well. Thanks. We'll be talking about this USS Nimics project, and the reason we're talking about this is because Tom DeLong, you know, made this announcement for this organization he's putting
together. And although Tom DeLong has a lot of you know, wild kind of ideas that he's talked about, the group he's put together are people who have worked in the government and what they've said said in that press conference or what they've come out with some of it which is really useful to us and new and different in particular this DoD project to look at unknowns, but it's not so different than the story the documents have put together, like the documents
you collected for the book, right right. I think there are some similarities there. And I do know two of the individuals on Tom's group, Chris Mellen and how put Off, and I have a lot of respect for both of those gentlemen, and they both have what I consider a very conservative view of the UFO phenomenon, which is similar similar to my view on the topic. Well, what I found interesting and speaking with you know j one of the guys also in the group who had a career in the CIA. Of
course, Tom DeLong. The scenario that he paints is, like I said, very out there, with abductions and aliens and all of these things being
included. However, on the flip side, the picture that is painted by these gentlemen who were in the government, it's much different, and it kind of paints the picture a picture John Alexander often puts forth, I think that your work in the book kind of goes here, and it's something that I think that is accurate as well, you know, other governments, it's somewhat
similar in that they don't know a whole lot. They know there's a mystery and that they can't solve, but otherwise it doesn't seem like they know a whole lot more than that, right, And that's what I was trying to suggest when I was saying using the term conservative for how Chris Mellan and how put off, I mean how I've talked to in person several times, and Chris I've talked on the phone with him over the course of two to three years, usually an hour at a time. So I'm very familiar with how
they see the phenomenon. And it's just like you explained, Alejandro. I mean, it's no one knows a lot about it other than it physically exists and it appears to be intelligently controlled. But other than that, there's not a lot of information in terms of, you know, what's the origin. You know, is there something in the UFO or is it unoccupied? Is
it? I mean, clearly it rad radar bounces off of it, But is it a you know, a physical entity that exists in our I'll just use the term space time or is it something that's you know, not exactly here. I mean, that's all in there. I'm speculating, right, So no one, no one really knows much about it. So I'm when people start talking about aliens in the government, I'm just not there. I just see it for the information that we have, right, and I think
that's important to build on the information that we have. And that's what's an interesting dynamic about this whole thing is that you have Tom DeLong and and you know, I really like Tom. He's a nice guy. He's an interesting guy. Here, He's passionate about this field, and I think personally, you know, getting this group of people together that he got to group get together was very very important, and getting us in contact with these people who
I think they can help us further our work. But what he's saying is just so much different than what the other guys are saying that it's kind of like, at least for me, a lot of people kind of get up in arms about what Tom DeLonge is saying and doing, But for me, we can't really do much with what Tom's version of this whole phenomena is because he's not really providing any substance to back up a lot of the more wild
kind of claims. Whereas with this group of guys he's put together, these are guys who were in the government, who like us, have a genuine interest in looking at this phenomena in an incredible way and right and are kind of in the same place as start off with, which is kind of just like this scenario we just talked about, right, and I could understand people's concerns, right, I mean, if I did not know how, and I did not know Chris and I had first seen this, right, and
mostly you're hearing what Tom is saying, I would have been very skeptical of the entire thing. But because I do know Chris and how and know that those guys are very conservative scientifically, especially how scientifically based individuals, I know
that their intent is good. I'm not as familiar, you know, with the other guys that are on the stage, Lou and Jay, so I can't comment one way or another, but I'm open to it because of what I know of Chris and how m Were you surprised by Lou Elizondo's claims of this unidentified threat project he was on in the d O D. Yeah, I was somewhat surprised by that, and I would like to hear more information about it, because I guess my thoughts on this is if he has right
he when he left the d D. I'm sure he had non disclosure agreements he had to sign and government oaths that he had to sign, so he can probably release information that is not classified. But I don't see how he can release information that is classified. So to that extent, I'm thinking, Okay, well, how does he establish the UFOs are real? Now? When I say UFOs are real in my mind and there's no doubt that they're real because I've studied, you know, hundreds of cases and it becomes just
amountain of evidence. It tells me that. But if you're talking to the public and you're trying to establish the UFOs are real, and you're going to do it one case for example, and you're going to have photographs and videos where there's no doubt about it, well, I'm just not sure how he could do that with information that's unclassified. But my view here as time will tell. So if he can do it, then I'm all for it.
So I'm willing to wait and see what can he present. What I think is this scenario, and you can tell me if you think differently, is that he worked at this capacity looking at these unknowns, then he personally came to the conclusion that some of these are technology that are beyond ours and that now that he has left knows of material that can be declassified and shared publicly that perhaps he feels bolsters his case, but that it's perhaps not an official
stance of this organization, right right, I think what you just said I can agree with. I just don't know based on that, how can he convince the majority of the public that you know, UFOs are definitely real. That's what's going to be exciting because hopefully we'll be He's going to be sharing material apparently, and hopefully it seems like this will be stuff we haven't seen before, perhaps nobody in the public has seen. So that's because hopefully it's
very compelling that I think that's really exciting. And just to clarify what I said there for your audience, there are a good number of people with science backgrounds that I know that have studied the topic in detail. Right, They've reviewed hundreds of cases, and after reviewing all those, there's no doubt I believe in most of these people's mind that the UFO phenomenon is real. But it's if you follow what I'm saying, it's not like you can just throw
out one case and nail it down. It's more of studying the history of the phenomenon in all these hundreds of cases that have radar data, visual data, radar and visual data together in combination. That makes you know that it's a physically real phenomen I'm gonna that's intelligently controlled. Beyond that, that's all we know, right right, And he seems to be careful to not go
any further than that either. Oh that's Lou that you're talking about. Yes, okay, Yeah, And you know when I talked I talked to Chris and he did indicate that in the next few weeks they should be releasing some more interesting information. So I'm looking forward to that, and I'm willing to give them a chance to see what they have. Yeah, exactly. And I guess you know a lot of people keep calling this Tom DeLong and Tom
DeLong, Tom DeLong, you know, over and over again. And Tom was a facilitator of all of this, but you know, really Tom's pieces are not when I'm most interested in currently. I'm more interested what I see is kind of something totally separate, which is this to the Stars Academy with how put Off and Chris Mellan and Lou and all these guys were talking about because they're similar to us. I mean, there are guys with a passion for this phenomenon who are looking to, you know, figure it out.
Yeah, I agree with you completely. I mean, with all due respect to Tom DeLong, that's his Part's not the part that interests me. It's what the other guys can provide that's of interest. To me. So one of the things that they provided, and this was a cool part of it too, especially given who Chris Mellan is, and maybe we should start off with that was this Nimtz case that he talked about, which was one of
the more exciting parts of the press conference. But Chris, so, Chris mellen first kind of came out about UFOs when he joined this UFO Data organization, which now you're a part of. You can describe what that organization is.
Yeah, The UFO Data program is a program whose goal is to develop basically camera systems that use gratings on the camera lens so that you can get a spectrum of light, so that if you detect an object at night, the spectrum of that object tells you a lot more than just a light on
a photograph screen. With the spectra, you can determine the different wavelengths that are being omitted and whether or not the light from the object matches a known light such as a halogen light or an aircraft light, etc. So that's kind of what UFO Data is all about, is developing a system that can
capture real time spectral information and hopefully optical information on unnums. Was the first time you heard about Chris Mellen working on all of this, well, I think the first time I talked to Chris was probably two or three years ago. But I can tell you something interest interesting on the case that he mentioned,
which happened in November of two thousand and four. I probably talked to Chris four months ago Alejandro on this case, because I've been working the case over a year, and when I talked to Chris four months ago, he did not have much information on that case. I mean, he was aware of it, and he had indicated that he knew that there were files in the government on it, but he didn't have any details like you heard him
give at the press conference. So that means somewhere in the last four months, one of the guys on the team gave Chris it's some very interesting information on that case. Some of the comments he made in the press conference on the case are his information that I was not aware of yet. And I've been working this case since gosh June of last year, and I've submitted over
nine foyas. I've already done two appeals on the foyas that were denied, So I've got a lot of interesting information on the case some information that he did not reveal. But like I said, the interesting thing is that he has gotten this information from someone else. So to me, that's a positive, right, that means there is someone on the team that has access to
some good information. What's interesting about Chris, of course having access to information is his background, not only of course, as he worked in that and the Department of Defense and he was assesstant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence for a period of time. So yeah, so a big, big deal. And beyond that, his background is the Mellon family, which is kind of like the Rockefeller family. I mean, Carnegie Mellon. Is there name Mellon banking?
Uh So he comes from a very interesting background, which I'm sure is going to add to the conspiracy. You know, theories that will begin to that are probably already out there. I haven't seen much, but I'm sure there can. There will always be those, but you know, I'm When I first talked to Chris a couple of years ago, I asked his view
on the UFO phenomenon, and it was the same as mine. He I mean, basically, he said he feels that, you know, the government knows that it's real, that it exists, but other than that, he doesn't feel that they know much more than what most of us who have researched the topic in depth know about it. Mm hmm. And that's what Jay had told me, which was the other guy who had a career in the CIA. And what's interesting is Rockefeller was into UFOs, one of the Rockefellers,
I should say Rockefeller. Of course is many people, so you can't just say Rockefeller, but Lawrence Rockefeller was into the paranormal, did a lot of funding of UFO projects and things, and he had a similar stance.
He had access to a lot of people. But you know, most of his research was based off of the same sort of documents that you and I have looked at, so like the Condon Report, let's say, or the French report that that was, I mean, I can't remember the name right now, but some of these other great UFO reports that have been put together,
and then he put together his own. But it was similar situation in that they really feel there's something to all of this, but even with all of their connections, they don't necessarily or at least have not discovered any sort of secret, super secret MG twelve type of organization in the government, right, And the way I look at it is I believe that there are times the government hides information, right, and that there's things the government knows that
they don't tell the public. Just like you said, I don't believe that there is a government organization that, through time has continued to research it. Take for example, this case from November two thousand and four. I know those documents exist, and I know that the government has probably classified them and put them somewhere right, But other than having done that, I don't think that there's a government agency that says, Okay, we've got these documents.
Now, there was a case in nineteen fifty seven with RB forty seven Bomber, Right, and how does this relate to that, And how does this relate to that case that happened in Stephenville, or how does it relate to any other case. I just don't think that there are these feelers that are analyzing all that information. I think it's more silo based, right. It's like, Okay, this happened to the Nimits and the US is Princeton,
let's investigate this. Okay, here's what happened. Now. This is hard to believe let's stick this over here and we'll forget about it and go on with our lives. I think that's how they operate. Do you think there should be at least a Nick Pope out there? And what I mean by that a UFO desk that the government has where they are coalescing this information. Yeah, I would think so. I mean you were indicating that's kind of
what lou was doing. And differently, over history, there have been organizations that did that off and on, right, I mean, that's what Project Bluebook I supposedly was about. So I think that has been done on and on, and you know, I argue with myself sometimes about you know, surely there's someone out there that's that's really analyzing all this information, right, because just from a scientific logical viewpoint, you would think, okay, there has to be. But then the other side of me says, no,
I can't find any indication there is. It's almost like, and this is just okay, here I'm speculating, but this is almost like, Okay, we're the top of the totem pole. And deep inside me, I don't want to hear anything that says we're not the top of the totem pole. So if my subconscious hears that I'm sticking it over here and let's go on with our life, it's almost you know what I mean, It's almost like a societal issue that goes beyond a government that tries to hide information or an
individual. It's almost like is a human race. There is a deep barrier to considering here. Here's a good example. Take Setting, right, which is a scientific organization to study extraterrestrial life out in the universe. If you ask, okay, is there extra intelligent life you know out there? And you'll get answer from the scientists to say, yes, we believe there is intelligent life out there. And you could ask is it more intelligent than us?
And I think you're going to get the same answer from most scientists, right, which is yes, there is life that may be hundreds to thousands of years more intelligent than us. Then when you ask the next question, Okay, if that intelligent life is out there that's more intelligent than us, who's going to find who first? But the answer clearly has got to be the more intelligent life forms going to find the less intelligent life form first.
Right. But when you read all the science articles and everything, it's all geared towards that it's us that finds them, right, And so when you ask them this final question to someone, for example, in Saty, and you say, okay, if they're much more advanced than us, then clearly they know we're here right Just like right now with all these extra solar planets, we're only a few decades away of knowing which of those planets in their
atmosphere have the gases to indicate that there's life. So why can't they get here? And then, of course the answer is always well, we can't travel at the speed of light, and therefore no one else can, so there's no way they can get here. Yet. Last month, I just went to a conference where you have people from NASA, the United States Air Force, and major universities, and the topic was how can we send a spacecraft to Alpha Centauri at twenty percent of the speed of light and get it
there in twenty years? So you see how it's like, on one hand, we can talk about we might be able to get there, but if you talk about a race thousands of years more advance than us being able to get here, it's like, okay, that's taboo. We're just not even going to entertain that thought. Yeah, that is an excellent, excellent point because it is almost like cognitive dissonance. It's almost like you know, you have on the one hand, they believe there's advanced civilizations out there, but
on the other hand, we're gonna find them before they find us. That doesn't jive, that doesn't make sense, So we are it's a great place to break. We'll come back from the break and we will talk about the Nimtz case. But I think that's an excellent point. We're here with Robert pall're listening to Open Mind GFO Radio. We'll take a quick break. Some of you listening on KGr A will hear some commercials, so be sure to
patronize these lovely people who help KGRA stay on the air. And for those of you listening to the podcast, you'll fit here a few seconds of music, but we'll be right back. Welcome back. You're listening to Open Mind GUFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we are here with Robert Powell. Hello, Robert, I Alejandro, Well you just made some excellent points, Thanks so much, and to kind of set the stage here. But and and that's what's interesting even though you know, people may disagree
what they do with the information. Uh, you know. And it's one of the things that John Alexander says, who worked in intelligence for so long and tried to look into this, that these UFO things are hot potatoes,
and and you know he's he doesn't, you know, mix words. He says, Essentially, the UFOs issue is dropped by the government and it shouldn't be because out of ignorance and incompetence, and these are the sort of words he uses that which is frustrating, especially to him and others, because it's an important thing, especially when you have cases like the Nimetz case. So maybe you could start off with when did this happen and where and to whom?
Okay, So the Nimetz case occurred on November fourteenth of two thousand and four, and it happened with a carrier Battle Group eleven, which is made up was at the time, it was made up of the USS Princeton, which is a guided missile carrier sorry frigate, and then you have the Nimets, and then you have F eighteen's from both the Marines and the Navy. I think the Louisville was the submarine assigned to that carrier group, and there
are other smaller ships assigned. So this group was practicing about seventy to one hundred miles southwest of San Diego, so just a routine, you know, exercises. And while they're out there in the ocean, the us IS Princeton for a number of days had been picking up on their radar some object that was moving. It would be up at eighty thousand feet and then suddenly it's right near the ocean surface. So it was moving vertically at a very rapid
speed. And the us IS Princeton had at that time what's called spy Dash one radar, which was the most advanced radar that we had, and it basically operates by scanning across all sorts of different frequencies simultaneously in order to maintain a contact with an object. So on November fourteenth, this object shows up, and so the Princeton first calls a marine F eighteen and when they call
the aircraft to go check this out. And when they call that, there's also an airborne aircraft one of the kind of similar to an a wax, but the Navy uses what they call the E two C but it's a it's an A wax, so they're in communication with the A wax. The A wax says, yes, he sees the target, but it kind of comes and goes, so his radars are not picking up picking it up as well as the Princeton. So the vector this marine F eighteen to the location.
So he's headed there, and as he's going to the location, he gets a call from the Princeton and tells him to leave the area because they have now contacted two F eighteens from the NIM and they're on their way. So two super hornets are headed there. So he leaves the scene, and apparently as he's leaving, he also sees in the water. He doesn't see the object and the objects in the air, but in the water. He noted that the water was crystal clear, you know, it was almost like glass.
But he sees a bubbling as if you know, a ship was sinking. It was his best description of what it looked like. But he vectors away because the FA teens are coming in. So the two FA teens come in and in their conversation with the Princeton, that Princeton asked, Okay, do you guys have anything on your radar, they reply back, no, there is nothing on our radar at the coordinates that you're sending us to. So meanwhile they continue towards those coordinates and as they approached it, though,
then they visually see this object. And it's not clear if there was one or two objects, but the object is described as a tic tac. And for your listeners, who recall those little candy tic TACs that come in a little plastic jar, and they they're kind of a white, long elongated oval, so that's how he described them. So the two FA teens are approaching and as they see the tic tac, the tic tac has no wings, has there's no method of propulsion, but the tic TAC's front begins to turn
and point towards the FA team. So the pilot considers that an aggressive maneuver. So one FA team goes up to a higher altitude. The other F eighteen engages the tic tac, and by engage it, he is trying to get behind the tic tac so that it's in front of him, and so he does some type of I'm not familiar with the maneuvers that native pilot shoes.
He uses this maneuver to try to get behind the tic tack, but the tic tac goes behind him, is sitting behind him, and these you know, maneuvers go on for a number of seconds, and then the tic tac just leaves and it's either one or two tick tacks, but the tic TACs lead the scene. The FA teens can't keep up with them because they left so such a high rate of speed. They head back to the Nemens.
They're on their way back to the Nimens and then the Princeton calls them and says, those targets are back exactly where they were when you first encountered them. So the two FA teen pilots say, we do not have enough fuel to go back and engage them, so we're going to continue to the Neimts, and supposedly the Nimets then sends two other FA teams to that same
location. Now at this point, I don't know exactly what happens there, and there's video taken, and my best, as far as I can put the pieces together, is I think the video was taken by the two F eighteens that came after the first two faighteens encountered the object. And there's a there is an IR video that's been leaked to the internet. I've been able to verify it is the type of video there's an F eighteen during that era would have used. But whether or not it is actually the video, I
don't know, But that's not what's important to me. What's more important was the description given by the pilots when all of this happened. And this descriptions basically was released by another on a Navy blog site. So this is not on some UFO site where I first found this information. It's on a Navy blog site by a naval aviator who normally writes about jets. He doesn't write about UFOs, but he does have this one story, so that's kind of
a summary of that event. And so all total, there are five Navy assets involved. There's the nimits, the USS Princeton, a total of four Navy F eight teens, and a Marine AT eighteen, and a Navy airborne Electronics aircraft similar to an a wax so I. In December of last year, I submitted nine foyas, which that's the Freedom of Information Act request which
a government organization is supposed to answer. Your request for information is long as it's not classified, and if it is classified, they're supposed to tell you. So I send these requests for information on all five of these naval assets, and I send it to nine different navy and marine sites. So by April I have received a denial from every one of those, and the denial basically says we have no information responsive to your request. They didn't state this
is classified or anything. Basically, they just said we went and looked for the information, we can't find any information. End of story. So then what you're allowed to do with the for you is you're allowed to appeal it, but you appeal it to the same organization that you first sent the request to. It's kind of like the fox guarding the the hen house. So
I appeal it. Now the appeal goes to the at the Judge Advocate General, which most people have heard the phrase in the Navy jags, right, So that's that's the Judge Advocate General group, which basically are attorneys that work in the Navy. So the very first appeal, they denied the appeal and the reason was that as long that and they cite federal court cases, as long as they made a reasonable attempt to search, then that is sufficient.
That's what the courts have ruled. So then I sent a second appeal, but this time I did something a little different. I wrote an email to the guys I sent the appeal to, because it's the same guys that got the first appeal right. And so I said, Okay, your argument that as long as we did a sufficient look for information sufficient, I said,
that's reasonable. But I said, in this second appeal, what I'm arguing is, you're talking about five different naval assets that occurred on a given date, and you're telling me that on all five naval assets you can't find any records. And I said, whether or not a federal court judge would buy that argument, I said, I don't know. But I said I don't know that our congressman will buy that argument. And then I copied my congressmen
and senators on that second appeal. Okay, so guess what happens in the second appeal. They still don't give me the documents, but they do try to give me something right. In other words, they're wanting to give you, give me something right. And let me let me make a note here to your listeners. I don't think the JAG attorneys or the foyer officers you know that search these documents for me. I don't think they're trying to hide
anything. They're just doing their job. And the reason I say that is because what I think happens is with the military is you have documents, right, and remember this is happened thirteen years ago, So those documents get archives somewhere, right, and they just don't want to have to deal with trying
to dig up these documents. And they may not even if they worked harder, they might still not get the documents because these documents could have been classified, or they could have been shipped to some special location you know, who knows. But at any rate, here was the neat part. So the JAG guys call make some phone calls down to the one of the Marine groups that was involved in this, and they send me back the emails of their
conversations with these Marines officers. So one of the neat ones was a This was a Marine lieutenant colonel and he's replying back to a JAG officer who's saying, you know, we've got this Foyer request. Do you guys have any or know of any information on this? And this lieutenant colonel goes tic TACs. Oh yeah, I know about tic TACs and he goes, he says, he goes, uh, there were a bunch of officers involved with this, and officer X an officer. Y, I've got their names, but
I don't want to say them. You know, I'm not going to mention their names. He goes offer officer X an officer why they saw the video? And so, you know, I was like, wow, why did the JAG guys send me this? You know, And I'm just thinking, well, either number one, they just didn't realize what they were sending me, or two, maybe they just thought this is really interesting themselves and maybe we'll give him a bone and see if he can get some more information or
something. So that was interesting. And then I got another They sent me another email, and this was from a major in the Marines. And this major goes he said, well, we don't have these documents anymore, but these documents would have been archived, and they said you should be able to get a point of contact who can help you find these doc documents in the archives. Wow. So it's you know, so it's like, okay,
so now I'll appeal. The appeal right is too and I'm in the process of writing up the second appeal now based on that information because he said they should be able to find him exactly they should be able to find them. And in the other email, bad sin Make tells me this event occurred.
This is a real event. You know. What's funny is you know I've ran across this before too, where you know, Okay, you're a UFO guy and luckily typically and you're probably the same because you come across as grounded. You're able to build somewhat of a rapport with the person you're working with if you can talk to them directly or even online. You can a bit by the way you approach them, and you can tell there says, oh,
it's you know, a UFO guy with a UFO request. But though if they come back with something interesting, it seems with some of these people it's the first time they've considered UFOs, I mean exactly. Yeah, So it's like they so they're just as shocked as you are that early crap. This guy. These guys are taking it serious. Yeah, And I'm in the back of my mind, I'm like, I wish I could sit down with these JAG guys just out of curiosity, because I bet they're going,
Wow, this is really weird. But what did happen on November fourteenth? I think they would like to know also mm hmm. You know, but at the same time, they're not going to push it too hard because that's not their job, right, Yeah, They've got their jobs to do. So that is really really fascinating because it shows too that this was a big deal to these guys that they still remember it. Oh yeah, it's like I think it's embedded in your memory. Mm hmm. So hopefully that video
does come out, And do you have hope in your experience? Do you think that video is around and you think there's hope to get it? Well, like I said, there's one that's leaked on the internet, but whether or not that is truly the original video, I don't know. So in terms of getting it, the only way I think that we can have success. And I talked to Chris Mellen. This was his suggestion. I like
the idea. And this is what I'm doing on a face, you know, on the Facebook site for the Scientific Coalition for Youthology, which has a public Facebook site, is I'm putting these stories there. And what I'm going to ask when I get to the end of these stories I've been putting on the Facebook site. Is for individuals who feel that there's some likelihood this case is real to contact their congressman and the Senate Armed Services Subcommittee and ask that
they request a debriefing from the Navy on this case. Now that debreaking will be a have to be done in secret, right, that that won't be something that would be a public debreefing. But once those congressmen start hearing the case, I think, you know, they will start asking more and more questions that I think it would eventually come out. That's exciting. Of course,
who comes to mind. I'm here in Arizona is John McCain. And it almost feels like John McKean is he knows his times limited, and he's it seems like that has given him him some more bravados and more Uh. He's kind of has Sarah Payla put it going rogue again in that he's doing his own thing. He's doing what's important to him absolutely and in the nice thing, Alejandro is guess who is the head of the Senate Armed Services comedian, right, it's John McCain. So it's and this is how those things
work. It's got to be a perfect storm type of situation, right, and he's an ex Navy pilot, So if we can just somehow get him to review the documents, I think it will ring truth for him. Well, it's an exciting case and another example of some work very well done on your part, so really really interesting stuff. Now we're almost out of time, so I guess in this last minute you mentioned SCU So you used to
be with Muffan. You are like the director of research. That's where we first really interacted the most was when we were directors together there and then you had the Scientific Board. But now you're working with this Scientific Coalition for Ufology. They're the guys who did the Homeland Security investigation, or I should say you or we because I'm a part of the group. I didn't do the
investigation you all did or some of the others. But and so that's expanding, and that's kind of where a lot of your work is being done is with this new Scientific Coalition for Ufology. Right, That's that's correct. So that's kind of a new group where the members are mostly either investigators, you know, out of either the military or law enforcement, or the members are have science backgrounds. So we have a lot of chemist, geologists and physicists
that are part of this group. I think we have almost twenty five people in the group currently. Yeah, so cool stuff. So, and we're working closely with like UFO Data and KUFOS, the group that Jal and Heinek started up, and and others because we all have like you and I have both worked with the Chilean government people people. You've worked a lot with the people in France. So yeah, high hopes and a lot of great people who are doing real work in the group. So it's exciting and we'll be
sharing more information this a little later this week on the group. Yes, I'm looking forward to that. Well, thank you once again for coming on the show. Fascinating Steph and thanks again. Yeah, great talking to you as always, Alijandro, have a great week. Thank you so much to Robert Pale for being on the show again. That was great. He's always
here to share wonderful information. And there actually is some news. So Jeremy Corbell interestingly enough just posted that he confirmed that one of the videos that was leaked that Robert was referring to of that tic TAC object was confirmed that it's real. So he's got this video up at his site extra extraordinary. Believes you probably remember that from when he was on the show recently. But I'll also put that up on my Facebook so you all can see that and I'll
tweet it. So really really interesting stuff and you can see, you know, the tic tac shape and that. But thank you to Robert for being on the show and sharing his information. An excellent researcher. I highly recommend everything that he works on. Go find that UFO and Governments. I think you can find it on Amazon, but you can google it and find that book. A ton a ton of information in that book regarding UFOs. And
also he referred to the Scientific Coalition for Ufology. Like I said, we're going to have more up on that later this week at Openminds dot tv. But I'll put the link there on his page for that. It's explore SCU dot org. Another great organization that's going to be doing some really good work here in the near future. So good stuff. I want to think mart and Willis from Podcast UFO for joining us at the beginning of the show.
I want to thank Caleb Hanks and Systematics for the music during the show. You can see more about Caleb Hanks at the UFO Radio website and more about his work UFO Congress. We have more speakers listed, really really cool stuff.
We're super excited about that. And remember at the UFO Congress on Demand video page, we are posting videos from the lectures that you can go for just a few dollars a month and watch tons and tons of incredible lectures, including from people like Robert Powell, Jeremy Leslie Kaine, who we had on the show last week. Really really good stuff. And as usual, we're going to have rare appearances from people that you probably won't see anywhere else.
Luckily, we have a lot of great friends and a lot of great associations, so we're able to bring speakers that others aren't. So check it out at UFO Congress dot com. Otherwise, I'll talk to you next week. Until then, Adios, Move Churches, Mos