Welcome to USO Thinks Tom Craigio with your host Alejandeloopa. Thank you for that lovely introduction, Computer lady. Would that be neat if I had like this robotic engineer working my show, that would really be very cool. That's the illusion that I am trying to make you believe with that robotic voice. But unfortunately that is not the case. Although artificial intelligence can news to astound us. What was the game? Oh? I was watching a show where it
was the Alex Trebec show. What is that one where you have to ask the question? Geez, I can't believe I can't remember the name of this anyway, it was this game show. They're beating us at chess. They're beating us at all of these game shows. I mean, what's going on here? AI will be taking over regardless. Hello everyone, and welcome to UFO Think Tank Radio. I am Alejandro Rojason. We have a wonderful show for you today. Our guest is Randy Nickerson. He is working on a
documentary that he is doing in conjunction with the John mac Foundation. Yes, that is the John Mack who was a Harvard professor of psychology, Politzer Prize winning biographer to E. Lawrence who wrote about interesting enough. And so this was, you know, a respected gentleman in he had filled who started getting involved with the paranormal and abduction phenomenon in particular, actually brought into the field
by Bud Hopkins, our good friend. Anyway, what happened is John Mack was invited to look at this incredible case in Ruwa, Zimbabwe at the aerial school where a bunch of children had claimed I mean a dozens, tens of dozens of children who claimed to have seen a craft land in the school yard. And these two entities come out and one of them moved towards them and very interesting. So if some of you have probably seen some of these interviews, if you have not, then google this, go to YouTube. Trust
me, very very interesting to see these children. And John mac being a psychologist, was worked with children and he just does a wonderful job interviewing these children and trying out the information about what they had seen. And you can tell, you know, in the way that these children speak that they're very genuine. I think they come across as very honest. They're very very young,
eight to twelve years old, and so it's an amazing case. Since then, Randy Nickerson, working on this project, has gone back and interviewed these children who are now in their twenties to see if their stories remain the same, and he says, yes, they do. That these kids are not backing down. This is what they saw. So it's a terribly interesting case. Is what Randy Nickerson has found by revisiting this case. I think it's very significant, and so we'll have him on the show to talk about
this. And I cannot wait till this documentary comes out. So I've been waiting for a while for this thing, and so it's great to be able to catch up with Randy and to find out, Hey, when's this thing coming out? Buddy? I want to see it, and so do my listeners. So we're gonna have a lot of fun talking to mister Nickerson in just a few after the UFO news. I want to remind you before we get into the news, just real quick, because I'm just so excited about
this guys, and that, of course is my Cosmic Exploration conference. We have an incredible lineup of mainstream journalists, best selling off there, Leslie Kane, who was on the show last week, and of course then some other scientists and PhDs and professors and ex professors. And we've got Ben McGee who's going to be on National Geographic here on this UFO show, but he's the scientist guy, and he specializes in commercial space. He's going to talk about
the show in commercial space. We've got Ted Peters. He's a theologian. He's a professor, and he also works in science and writes about theology and science and has done a study on are we going to freak out? Are the religion's going to freak out if it's announced that there are extraterrestrial civilizations? He says no, and I have the study to prove it. And he's got some interesting fact as to what they are going to or how people do
feel about this in regards to their religion and worldviews. So that's just a little bit of what's going on. And I think this is really great because I'm personally very excited in that. I think it's important because what we're doing. What I'm doing is creating a space for scientists who are interested in this field, and there are and some conventional scientists, I mean Jeffrey Bennett. This is great. He's going to be talking about more conventional search for extraterrestrial
life. He is also a PhD and an author and an astronomer and a physicist, astroists physics, astrophysics. How cool is that? Astrobiology is cool? But astrophysics and astrobiology mixed together, that's astronomical astro cool, if you ask me. So, I'm very excited about mister Bennett and his talking about
the more conventional side to the science. To this mixing together of all of this is where we should be. You know, we're introducing UFOs to the mainstream science dialogue, which is very important, and I think it's slowly moving that way and we're just greasing those wheels, so be a part of it. It's going to be a lot of fun. It's I think this is going to be a historic event for our field. We're going to be moving
this forward. And if you want to go to the dinner, there's plenty of seats, and I can always open up more seats when it comes to the lectures, But if you want to go to the dinners, then you're going to have to register as soon as possible. I really if you go and look at these other conferences going on, I've really kept the price down and as much as possible. Really, I'm not even getting as low as
I could possibly go without losing my shorts. I don't have ten thousand dollars to blow on this whole thing, although I gladly would if I had that kind of money, not to say that, and I've spent thousands of dollars of my own money already in this field. But so the price is as
low as it can be. And this dinner is going to be fun because the speakers will be there and we'll be able to mingle and communicate and network and kind of create this community that can hopefully pierce the difficult, difficult show of the conventional world in a serious manner. And I think we can do this. People, we can do this together. Come join us. It's going to be a lot of fun. It's Las Vegas, my goodness, right in the middle of the strip, so you can go party once you're
done. Careful, you know, don't get too crazy. But of course there's a lot of fun. See a show, go walk the strip. I'm not a gambler or a drinker, but I love Vegas because I love just to walk the strip and look at all these cool things they have there. I mean they have I don't have to spend a dime on shows if you just walk into up and down the strip. They have these giant waterfalls, they have all these different shows out on the street, all these different
people, all this food, all of this glamour. It's just a very fun place. So certainly some people say their spouse, O, my spouse doesn't want to come, what am I gonna do? And you certainly have a lot of things for your spouse to do at this venue. So it's gonna be great to see you there. Come up and say hi, and you can see a link to the site on UFO Daily News dot com. You're already going to on a regular basis. Thank you for that. Your
patronage is much appreciated. But you'll see it at the top of the page. And also if you go to cosmicx cosmicex dot com or I got two u URLs Cosmic dash Exploration dot com. So I made sure we have lots of URLs for this baby. This is a to url site. It took two domains here, you Know's it enough for you people, because you, you guys deserve it. You deserve at least too. You know, most everybody's got one. I'm like, come on, my people are better than
that. They need to speaking of you all being deserving of the best. I on a regular basis collect the best UFO news in the mainstream headlines out there, and I bring that to you weekly, actually daily, practically hourly if you're going to my site and looking at the feed, or you're you're actually subscribed to the Twitter feed. So let's talk about this week. There's been a lot going on here. Holy cow, look at all these URLs.
I got here to go through the first Huffington posts. And we talked about this earlier because actually, my good Jason McLellan, when he was helping us with the news, was talking about this, and now that it's actually started, that is the San Diego County Fair. If you live in beautiful San Diego, My goodness, what a beautiful place that is. It's not too far from me, actually, and I'm happy about that. And I've driven through and I've loved the area. And that is the San Diego County
Fair. What's so exciting about this Not only is it just in a beautiful location, but much of the country's beautiful right now. It's summertime, baby, where it's burning hot out here in Arizona. Anyway, they are doing an extraterrestrial theme, extraterrestrial UFO theme at this San Diego County fair. How interesting is that. It's kind of perplexing in a way though, And I'm not disparaging. This is wonderful that they're doing the sap giant Ulfo models.
They got et stuff all over the place, they got a ring make of the crashed Roswell UFO, a lot of cool stuff, But it doesn't look like they're really including people who research this topic. It would have been really neat if they would have had at least some people on this topic speaking. And I'm not just saying me, you know, they could have I was going to say they could have called me. There's plenty of people they could have called. They could have called many of you. But there's many people
who are on the show that are great. I mean, there's plenty of researchers they could have had come and speak, and they didn't really, so they're kind of doing their own things. So that's kind of interesting. But hey, people are really excited, you know. In this Uffington Post article. They interview ed mcride. He's works with movie fond So that's really exciting that they're kind of at least getting that kind of information out. Oh and
I'm sorry I have the wrong name. It's Podell, Mel Podell of the mouf on out in that area, who they talked to and interviewed him, and he's really excited about it. Of course, so interesting. So if you're in the cing of Diego area, you probably have already seen the commercials, you know, go to Facebook and tell us about it. That'd be really cool if you go. Mayo. The Daily Mayo also did a story this week about Nick Pope. Of course, we've had Nick Pope on the
show. He's a good friend. I've had him at plenty of the conferences I've had. In fact, when I organized the Roswell City Conferences just a few years ago, I had him come to speak out there the first time, and that was his first time in Roswell, so I was great to be a part of that. Anyway, he worked for the Ministry of Defense at their UFO desk from ninety one to ninety four, researching UFOs. He
was a skeptic when he started. He was a believer when he left, and he's still talking about how we need to take this whole thing seriously. And they interviewed him and they really kind of focused on one statement and of course using it to you know, get as much play on this story as they can, but essentially that he says, look for this guy at the Olympics. The UFOs may be there. Really it's a whole conversation about how there's something going on, how there is a phenomena here that we need to
pay attention to. They asked him about ets. He said, well, you know, stuff like the Olympics would be a perfect place that they wanted to show themselves to the public, somewhere that's a big event where there are lots of people. So that's what he was talking about, and so they ran with that headline a nick bo says there's going to be UFOs at the Olympics. So he was just speculating, of course, that that would be kind of the place to be if they wanted to kind of show themselves.
But it's great because he's so such a credible person and that the Daily Mail has a story on him. This is kind of a space news story. But I mean it's kind of a game changer as far as it comes to space, and it's kind of crept up on us. So all of a sudden, there's stories about China launching astronauts, and it's not like, oh, China's got a plan to launch astronauts. It's like, no, this month, they're launching three astronauts into space to go connect with orbiting experimental module.
One of these might be a female astronaut, and so this is really exciting. I think, you know, there's space craft is called the Chanzau nine spacecraft, and actually, you know, China's been open to this subject. In fact, there's a big modern organization out there. And I've written about this and I think talked about it somewhat, but it was their government. Actually Wendell Stevens was involved with this, but well they came to him
later. But there were some people in China before, you know, during the Social Revolution, the academics were studying UFOs, but on the secret because it was really shunned and the Russians were advising, the Communists were advising China to stay away from this, so it was kind of done in secret. Once China become more became more independent Shintu Lee. I'm pretty sure that's how
you say his name. His wife was working for the government, and they went to the government and said, hey, we want to study UFOs. We've got these professors and academics, and they said, hey, great, and they said you need some help, we'll print your journal. And so they printed the journal and got that. That kind of got modern eupology out
in China off the ground. So really interesting story. Why am I talking about that along with this program, just with the idea that, of course, there are many who suspect that NASA is not sharing some of what they have found in space regarding extraterrestrials and UFOs. I don't know if that's true, but I think there is some compelling stuff that shows that at least there have been unknown craft that they have observed that they at least have been real
quiet about, which certainly are deserving a closer look. My point being that perhaps China will not be the same if they run across the same phenomena, and that perhaps they would be more willing to be forced right and kind of
trump America to say, hey, you American goofballs. You haven't been paying attention, but look how cool we are because we've filmed some stuff and we've seen some stuff here, and we're gonna make you look like a bunch of chumps because we're going to come out and say, hey, we're researching this and there's something really going on here. And so that's an interesting theory I
think, talking about NASA possibly knowing something. There's another story in England by their paper The Sun. Of course, this is the one that has all the bikini girls and stuff like that. So if you're interested in bikini girls, then you're probably interested in the Sun, which is actually their biggest selling paper. It's a of Rupert Murdoch production here. But they ran a story about a YouTube video an American yank by the way, who posted a video.
In fact, this guy's called the Californian, so he's in California. But he posted a video where he kind of took that Mars Google app and zoomed in and found this strange white anomaly that he says is a base of some sort. He speculates on the video perhaps at TT, perhaps it's NASA, perhaps it's secret. NASA probably doesn't know anything about this, so they need to look into it and this kind of thing. It is, I guess i'd say an interesting video. It's hard to determine anything because it's the
object itself. The area is not enough in a high enough resolution to really tell for sure what's going on here, but he feels confident that it does show a structure of some sort. He estimates it to be seven hundred feet long and one hundred and fifty feet wide. Interesting. So hopefully more people we'll look into this and we'll find something out. SETI search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Jill Tarter, who ran SETI, who is the inspiration for the movie
Contact, and you know that the female lead in that excellent movie. If you haven't seen the movie Contact, you really need to check it out. It's a great movie. Anyway, they have a new boss, so a new guy taking over SETI. His name is Jeff Marcy, and they did a little Q and A with him on the sci fi site IO nine, which I talk about once in a while, you guys might be familiar with. They're a real kind of silly sight. They have a lot of cool
stories and some interesting stuff. Though it's more loose and laid back, that's for sure. But they asked him about you know, why did you take this over? And he said, you know, he's just really interested to know if there are other intelligent beings out there, and if so, which he assumes there are, how close are they? You know, how close is our nearest neighbor, something of course that we're all very interested in.
He thinks it seems kind of crazy that would be the only civilization, and people would really love to know if the galaxy is teaming with life, which sounds pretty likely. Now he's working on a lot of these exo planet projects, so he's wrapping that up. So he is looking for et already, but more in the microbial realm, and now he will be looking for signals to find out if there are intelligence civilizations. So that's some interesting news.
I thought you might like to know. That said, he's got a new boss, and that's sat Shawstack. Even though he's kind of their biggest spokesperson, is not the boss, nor is he now what's going on with that. He is just a spokesperson and a great speaker, by the way, But that's what's going on with SETI the Middle East. This is big news you may have heard of in the Middle East. There were some UFOs seen
over Israel, Syria and other Middle Eastern countries. Some people were saying that, you know, this is an omen a, good or bad of course to send it to, depending on the side of the revolution, the kind of Syrian revolution that's going on right now. Whichever side you are on, omen for decide that is not no one you're on. So there's lots of speculation about this. I guess police got a lot of calls in Israel about
this object. And it's very similar to some of the spiral type of things we've seen lately, although this one does matched the time of a missile launched by Russia, and Russia is saying that this is certainly our missile, that it once it hit its target, it's spun out of control and the fuel,
you know, spinning the missile, which we've heard before. We've had on the show the mof on video analyst who is also a specialist in space, and he talked about this with us that these are definitely rockets that people are seeing, and so it's another case where it seems pretty solid that we can be sure this is a rocket, and the video looks very similar to the spirals that we've seen before, although, as I pointed out in a
story I wrote for Open Minds that these spirals, mysterios spirals have been seen in the East for a while, including a lot of them in China. Some of you are into that TV show fact or Baked the Paranormal Spiles, and we've had one of their stars, Ben Hanson on the show. He's a good friend, he's a great guy, and he showed us this video that has made some news this week. He showed us at the UFO Congress
and he actually showed it to me and some friends prior. However, this is very strange lights in this wooded area that they filmed on one of their investigations. So it's like on the other side of this lake in a wooded area. You see these lights. Now, they're not flying up in the sky or anything. They're kind of flying at tree level and below, flying around in the woods. He's really really weird lights. So people are saying,
hey, by definition, that's an unknown flying object. They're flying around these trees and stuff. So this is a mystery. I know Ben Hansen was really perplexed, and the whole crew don't know what the heck these lights are. So that's a really interesting one. Huffington Post. Here again is a group who covered that one. This is the Westcountry dot co dot UK, so lots of these. It's kind of interesting. In the UK every area has a this is this or this is that, This is New Hampshire,
this is Westernshire, this is uh. I'm not up to date completely on my English geography. I apologize to my English friend friends. I would love to visit England. It's beautiful, it's awesome. I love English people, I love English culture, I love English television, and I love English food in the way of pasties, pasties. I'm sorry past these paces or something else, but pasties they're this, you know, any kind of food and comes from England with the bread around it kind of thing, really good.
So I love u UK people. So I do apologize for not being up on my geography out there. So that This is with a Ridge is the paper who wrote about this. And this is a lieutenant colonel who reported a UFO. He says his wife spotted what looked like a red planet in the western sky, but as there was considerable cloud cover, we wondered what it could be. The object then faded away, but after a few seconds, a larger object looking like a bright red flare appeared from the north.
It looked as though it was at the end of an elliptical orbit as it turned and headed in the same direction as the first sighting, then fading away as before. This occurred three more times over a period of about four to five minutes. Very interesting sighting reported by This is West Country. But this was a UFO over wither Ridge. So, and I spirit you my terrible English accent, So you should be very happy about that. Prometheus movie just
started. I haven't seen it yet. I was going to see it this weekend. I got busy cleaning my house and working on these UFO things and everything, and I did not go see it. I'm very excited to even though the most people have been like, eh, it's all right. I'm a big Aliens fan, big Rebly Scott fan. So I'm still going to go see it. And especially because you know in the Fox News covered this aspect again that a big question from the movie is did aliens create the human
race? Wow? Interesting context sounds like the ancient alien stuff which we've talked about. Ridley Scott has already said was a major influence on this movie. The last story, it's UFO related because it's some unknown object flying around in the sky and that's the X thirty seven B. This secret space plane which kind of looks like a mini space shuttle US. This unmancraft that has been in space for a year. This thing has been flying around for a flip
in the year of there. Nobody knows what it's for. Interesting enough that just landed and the Air Force has kind of made a big deal. They've released all these promo pictures and everything so you can see what it looks like, maybe showing off how cool they are. So this thing has been flying around for the year. They're just, oh, it's just a test vehicle. What you're flying this test vehicle our around for a year? Come on, give us a break. Nobody believes that. Even the conventional media is
like, come on, let us in on it. You're BS and us. You're pulling our leg. You're not being on a su bunch of lions, sons of you know who's No, I'm sorry, I'm getting a little carried away here. But anyway, Yeah, they're flying around this space plane. Who knows what they're doing. They're probably launching secret satellites, maybe capturing Russian satellites, and then you know that the astronauts going there, and I don't know that there aren't any astronauts, so they just zap them and then
they let them go. Or who knows what they're doing. These crazy guys with our money, our tax dollars are doing all this stuff, but they can't build a regular shuttle. I don't know what's going on people. I'm sorry. And on that note, we will move on to our interview with Randy Nickerson. Okay, I'm very happy to have on the telephone Randall Nickerson. Hello, Randall, Hi, good good. How are you doing.
I'm still still here. Keep him busy. Yeah, well great, I'm really excited to talk to you because this RUA case is a great one and it's wonderful to have someone going out there and getting some updates. And now, by trade, are your photographer? Is that correct? Uh? Yeah, I would say photographer. I work in the film business filmmaker, also do some other things with pianos and music, and but yeah, freelance quite a bit, so you do a lot of creative things. I on that
sign, Yeah, yep. And it's just you know, at the UFO Congress. You showed some of the clips and the photography. You showed some of your pictures which were incredible, And that's what's great. Your photography is so wonderful that it totally it transitioned to the video. So the shots are just so pretty. That's one of another reason why I'm really excited to see
this movie. Yeah, there's a lot of good you know, I do the same thing with video that I do when there were stills, and you know, just takes time, a lot of time and patience to wait for the right shot, but it's worth it usually. Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting it completed. It's been a long haul almost for a little over four years years now since I started this project, and fairly confident that it's gonna make an impression just because of the story itself just so much more interesting
than I even fought in the beginning. So yeah, it the the journey. What inspired you to do this documentary, Well, since I've heard about it and back in ninety five, because I've known John Mack and it wasn't until two thousand and seven when and that was a friend of John's, Dominique, who was part of the UH the John mac Foundation was part of the John Mack Foundation. When uh, they asked if I would be interested in doing something with the footage. You know, I'd never looked at the footage
carefully, h until then. And then you know, I received all the original footage and started going over it, and I was just struck by the consistency of these children reporting this, and the numbers of them reporting it, and you know that the consistencies in their description and feeling. And when I you know, just on a objective point, just looking at these kids telling the story, I just felt they're not they're not lying, you know,
they're there. There's some you can tell them when someone's tell them the truth, and it's just the consistency. This really blew me away. So that kind of started the journey of even you know, finding more material, which I did, tracking down any interviews of these children in the past, which which I've discovered another five or six hours anyway of interviews with these kids back
then, and even more kids that were the consistencies just pretty striking. So there's no question something very very unusual happened at that school back in nineteen ninety four. Yeah, let's get into that then we'll talk more about John macause of course he brought this to the public essentially. But yeah, let's get into the case. So it's nineteen ninety four. It's an elementary school, and I'll let you take it over from there. Whereas these kids see this
craft right in the outside the school. Yes, Yeah, nineteen ninety four, September sixteenth, there was a This was at a primary school in rurals in Babley count called Rua, And it's pretty rural out there, and these kids on morning break were out playing in the field and they witnessed some type
of silver craft come over. People had seen it in the sky beforehand, and then they saw it in the bush maybe one hundred or one hundred and fifty yards away, and then they noticed a too small beings get out of this craft and one had once stayed with this object, and the other came toward them. Uh, And they pretty much that's the story that's consistent throughout the interviews. And you know, some kids were really excited about what happened.
Somewhere terror you know, who really terrorized by it? Now? Did they see the craft leave? Also? A few of them did. Uh. There there was something happened. That meant scared the kids and it was a sound that the thing made and a lot of them started running towards back towards the school. And I think, uh, I know, there's a couple of children that said that they did they did see it leave, but that wasn't a front, uh, something that was reported by the majority.
Just a few, uh reported that. And so then they run in and tell the teachers. But is no teachers saw the craft From what I understand, that's not necessarily true. They there was a teacher that was on the field that was reported by the students have seen seen this thing at least a few few of the students. And you know, I don't know for sure, but even some of the reporters on the scenes had that were first on the scene, said that that the kids had told them that a teacher was
that a teacher had witnessed this. So honestly, the teacher that was in question is no longer alive, unfortunately. And but there was another teacher involved that who I get interview that did not it's at that particular day, but did have an encounter within days of what happened on areel. Yeah, there's a there's a whole bunch of Uh, there's a there's a lot more of new information. Yeah, some I can talk about someone really can't get into
until the film's completed. But there's a lot of new information. Wow. Interesting. So this area might be sort of a hot spot, I would say so. Uh. I had written the US embassy in Zimbabwe to ask them about this particular incident, and I got an email back that said, uh, yeah, that's probably true. Weird things happen here all the time from the State's department. Yeah. I thought that was kind of funny. That is really funny. Yeah, but yeah, there are you know,
in Africa in general. I've been very interested in that particular continent because of you know, somewhat in the rural areas where there's just people don't know about them, about UFOs, so to speak, and there is still somewhat of a purity to their reports, and there is a lot happening over there. That's just the world just never you knows, you know, finds out about
it, and that, you know, another thing I had done. I've gone over several times and interview many other people regarding other incidents that have occurred over there, and you know, unfortunately we don't hear about it over here, but there's everything that happens, you know, globally that we've heard about it. I mean literally every aspect of the phenomena occurs there as well. Now this area, uh, just so people know, I'm sure a lot
of people but maybe not everybody is familiar with this case. But it there were white and black children, yes, and so it's a rural area. Are these guys farmers? Yes? That was the primary business environment out there is farms. Unluckily, all the children speak English very well. Is that the main language of that country? Uh? Well not, it's not the
native language. The native language language has showna primarily, but the white children of you know were basically you know, came over I think it's back in the seventeen hundreds and from England and so there primarily there's a lot there's a lot of British influence and there was a British colony for quite a long time, and I believe in nineteen eighties when when it when they gained their independent
independence. But yeah, but the children are very well educated. It's a very very good primary school and there is quote there was at that time, but quite a mix of Native children and uh and the white farmers basically children, which actually gave it kind of an interesting flavor because you had two different, essentially cultures discussing the same event, right, which I've I find interesting and helpful. Mm hmm. It kind of rules out some of the some
of the Western influence questions that can come up in this. And that's what's interesting is what they described. Now, how old were these children? Uh? They ranged from about from eight to thirteen, Okay. And then what I was thinking about, you know, as far as what you're talking about,
this idea of Western influences because of the creature they described. Now, I remember one little girl in her description, and I think a couple of the kids and the pictures I mean, you can correct me, but it seems as though what they saw is very similar to what they described seeing and what the pictures they drew similar to the gray type of creature that we're familiar
with, with a big head and large almond kind of shaped eyes. Was that consistent, I would say so, I would say pretty seemed to be very consistent, except it was in black. I think the some of the most interesting testimony and part of this case, it's very kind of given me a curveball, which is actually fine. That one of the beings actually had
long hair, or what was interpreted by the children as long hair. Even John Mack, you know, had asked this question to the kids, and you know, they had said, He'd ask, well, are you sure it was hair? And they weren't totally sure, but it looked like that. But the other one didn't have any at all. So there were two actually different types. And it's just it was in the reporting that that came out. But the general size of the creature and the creatures and the the
anatomy, we're very similar to what they call a gray you know. And how long do you get a sense of how long the encounter took place? That ranges, you know, from their account, But if I would from gathering from what I've gathered from the interviews back then in ninety four and interviewing in today, I would say ten to fifteen minutes. So it did occur. It seemed to occur over a long period of time. Now, some of the students ran to tell the teachers. Did did they wait until later
on? Are? I guess did the teachers just not believe them? That's why they didn't come out to work. Yes, okay, that's true. The teachers didn't believe them at first, and they you know, it was the children actually who really stood up for themselves, saying, you know, something did really happen that you know that the teachers tried to you know, fog them off, as they would say, and but it was the children who went home basically to their parents and told them that something really happened.
And I think that's what really started the the you know, seriousness being taken about what occurred. And now it seems, in hindsight from what at least I've seen that far, the teachers believe them. Is that true or is there still some doubt? I would say predominantly, I would say at least, I mean, almost one hundred percent of the teachers that I spoke with, I would said ninety percent believe the kids. And even you know, I went to find one specific teacher who at the time was interviewed and he
said he didn't believe the kids. And I found him and I interviewed him and talked to him, and I asked him, what do you think today? And he said he believed them now because their story never changed, and that it was so consistent over time. Initially thought was just kids being kids, but he said after time and the more time's gone by, more he he was just impacted by the the weight of the testimony I catch the kids
and the consistency. What uh what, Especially there's this little girl that in particular that I think it was I always think about a lot and John Max's interviews was that some of them seemed to have even though this thing was only looking at them, they seemed to have like an impression about what this These entities thoughts were as if there was a communication, although there wasn't any verbal
communication. Yes, that's somewhat true. I mean, and that definitely didn't occur with all the kids, but that it was definitely reported that there were there was some kind of brains and the brain communication. Yeah, anything pictures,
okay, Oh, mainly in pictures, okay. Yeah, Because I remember this little girl describing and you know, she seemed pretty young and very articulate in that she was describing that this thing was sad because we are destroying our planet and we're not taking good care of it, which is an interesting thing for a kid to say. Is that kind of the similar message that
some of the others who received messages got. Yes, that was the consistence for those that did have that experience, that was the message that they, you know, got from that experience was for some reason about our planet. And then it's funny because the interviewing some of the people today, Yeah, the investigators that were on the scene, they're still struck by that because a lot of what they said as children back in ninety four is really relevant today.
You know, back in ninety four it wasn't a big deal so much. Today it's pretty much in everybody's face. How interesting. Huh, Yeah, it is kind of interesting. Uh it is. Yeah. So John Mack then he gets soon after he gets involved, and just for people, I'm pretty sure because I talked about John Mack. I'm a big fan of his. Uh. But John Mack, who worked at the professor at Harvard Medical School, a psychologist. He had won a Pulitzer Price price for an
biography actually, and he took this or alien abduction very seriously. He got involved, what due to Bobs but Hopkins. I was saying, Bob, and I'm like, that's not right, Bud Hopkins and so and he took a different perspective than bed Hopkins, which is interesting. But then how did you know, being someone who was involved with abduction, how did John mac
get involved with this case? He was contacted by a journalist that was covering this case over there and basically wanted doctor Matt to look at this case. And it wasn't until about a month over about a month and a half before
John Mack actually went and interviewed these children. But between that time, you know, between the time it occurred September sixteenth and when John arrived in December, a lot of other people have done interviews and that that is very interesting, the variety of interviews that were done by different camera crews these children, which was part of the UH the UH massive amount of information collected about this case. So was it a bunch of news crews? I mean, was
it a big news in the country? Actually it was on writer it was let me see that case. UH EBC was covering it and Reuter's were covering it initially, but it was just like a blip on the radar and then it disappeared at the news. But it was covered by several other smaller agencies in Africa. News agencies and then had you know it had been covered even after John mac uh the Dutch covered it, Uh German, several other new
news agencies. It's been It's been covered quite a bit and in many ways by the news or documentaries, but on a small scale, you know, on a not an in depth investigation into it. What occurred? So what were do you know did you know John Mack at that time? Yet? Yes, oh you did? So do you know how he felt? Did he feeled? He seemed pretty open minded, so he probably I wouldn't sense that he would go in with a kind of a skeptical outlook, although he's
a he's a scientist, so he's probably looking for answers. But do you know what his mindset was going into it and how he felt once he talked to these children. Well, I mean the best judge of that is from the tape. I think he went in pretty open minded. Uh, And I you know, I think he also really understood like kids are. He worked with children. That was one of his focuses in his career was working
working with children as a psychiatrist. So you know, of any of all the interviews that were done, his interviews were actually revealed the most interesting information. Uh. He was able to draw out a lot of a lot from the kids, their emotions and thoughts and experiences that they had. But the half a dozen of so other news organizations or in people that interviewed the kids couldn't didn't get out of them. But yes, I think, uh,
I think he was right. He was rather moved by it, I would say, by by the whole experience of that's what's great about these tapes and why they're golden. While I'm sure you're just that you're so, it's been a great experience to watch him because, like you said, I mean, he's the perfect guy to go do this, to go talk to these children. He's worked with children, and i mean just you know, his patients and and the way the questions he asked. It's it's what I've been able
to see of those interviews is great. I mean he's able to because it's his job draw out from them to get clarity on what they experienced and how they felt. And it's very I mean it's incredible. Yeah, that's true. And even you know, when I just had his interviews, which are fantastic, that was one thing, but to actually see the interviews before and
how they corroborate his interviews is to me even more striking. But yeah, he was definitely the right person to to interview his children as far as being able to find out more of what occurred, and he was you know, people trust him, you know, people trust me children. You know, you would just had a demeanor about him that made you feel more open about sharing your experiences. How did you first meet John mact I met him in ninety two, Okay, yeah, I believe let me see. Yeah,
it was summer ninety two. Well, I think it was something it was a conference in Boston. How cool. Yeah, I was pretty interested in his approach on this topic. Yeah, he's one person that I really wish I would have met, but never unfortunately had the chance. Yeah, so you were saying, along with his interviews and these other news interviews, the children were consistent in what they were saying. Yes, m And that's pretty
significant, especially for kids. I mean, if kids are making stuff up, especially a kid, they're going to add new stuff and and add more kind of chilly stuff. But that wasn't the case. You know, I'm sure, I'm sure there are kids that's kids do stuff like that I'm sure that they may be a part of that, but the the story on its entirety is consistent, uh about about what they saw. And it's interesting too when we learn a lot when you interview people about human memory and how information
comes forward. You know, some people see things that others don't see at the time, or recognize or remember specific things that others aren't concentrating at the time. But it in in that way it creates its own story as a
composition of everyone. And that's definitely true here. There are details that were brought forward by different not all the children, but by enough of them to say that probably occurred, you know what I mean, little small details, sounds, things that were small details that were witnessed that build a bigger picture
of what occurred. Which was part of the goal was is to you know, in this film, is to really to really get as much to find out what really happened there and as much entirety as possible, and then and then how it really affected people today and how they're living with it today. So could you describe maybe one of those things that came up, you know, a repeated thing that you know, maybe no one else had picked up
on that you were able to glean. I think it was the sound really that was one of them, but that that was one particular, Uh, that there was a sound that was made from this this craft or or or one of the beings. Actually not completely sure what it was, but it came from that direction, Uh, that that had scared the children and made many of them run back towards toward the school. At the time, what was a sound like? It was described like a flute, very high pitched,
single tone. Details with the entities. They said they saw one stay at the craft, and then one moved away. Where did that one move to? Did it it moved towards him and then go back, yes, okay, and then okay, and one of them I can't remember if there was a this was just a discrepancy that did some remember the one that stayed at the craft on top of the craft or that's correct? Okay, so
it was on top. Yeah. That was pretty pretty consistently reported by most of the kids that there was one that was sitting on top of it while the other one came toward them. And there's actually two locations where this thing was seen. It wasn't just you know, there were two landing quote landing sites where this thing was reportedly seen the craft itself, which you know, it's very interesting because the first site is much further away and most I would
say most of the kids saw that. The second site is much closer and would account for their ability to describe it in that's detail because the first site isn't it's it's too far away, you know, too far away to really get the detail that some of these kids saw. But the second site easily they could have seen the detail of these these beings. How do you account for the two different sites? You know, I'm not sure. I mean it was over a long period of time. I'm not sure if it moved
or if there were more than one. Uh, I really do not know that, but it was that both sites were reported and there. You know, they're very specific locations, but that I had when I went there, I found and it went had to find to see exactly where these where they reported seeing this thing and these beings. So there's pretty much the original story. I mean, I think with John mackew went out and they videoed and it I know, the footage got into a documentary. Well now it's been
probably in several documentaries, but only a bit of the footage. I mean, I would guess we've probably only seen a small amount of what they've videoed. Is that correct? Yeah, there's quite a bit of it, and I believe for four or five hours of oh wow on Max footage, you know. And Cynthia Hein I gotta say, I'm gott to bring this up because she really she really laid down the groundwork for the investigation. Unfortunately she passed away in two thousand, but she was the one first on the scene.
She was there four days after and her and her assistance really docum meant to this event. And I'm just really glad that they did, and also John mac did. But Cynthia Hind definitely she was I don't think if it wasn't he for her, I think it wouldn't have been publicized. Any events like this can disappear really quickly if nobody really takes it seriously and actually investigates it. And she's a journalist, she definitely had some experience in journalism.
I honestly don't know her resume, but she after her husband passed away, she became the new found director for Africa oh Okay, covering all kinds of events, and she wrote a couple of books about encounters in Africa, and you know, there's nobody that's really that did that work before or since to the degree that she did. It's unfortunate because there's a lot of stuffing,
a lot of events going on in Africa that don't make the mainstream. Yeah, it's unfortunate because there's a lot of events yet going on a lot of other countries. And uh, it's unfortunate that we don't get that, you know, that out here so much. I mean England, we do, but I would say maybe that's the only other country really maybe Canada that we get a lot of about what's going on. Yeah, but yeah, it's funny because we're that's a very small percentage the Western world is a very small
percentage of the human population here. And I tend to believe the natives more than I too Westerners in general about their encounters because they don't in general, they don't have a predisposition to the phenomena, so you get more of a raw experience of what they saw or what they encountered that was so odd, you know, I'm this issue in general. I mean, they've just moved by it because there's no question something something is happening worldwide that continues to happen.
It's not. It hasn't gone away since the first reports you know, in Western media in the in the forties and fifties. And it even goes as you know, way way back in one hundreds of years. It's not thousands of years, but it's you know, it's just this isn't going to go away, this issue. It's going to continue to show up until we figure it out. Right. Yeah, Yeah, it's not. And that's
a good thing. It's not going to go away. I mean, as frustrated as some investigators or people who research this get because of maybe lack of attention in some cases, in many cases, it's not going anywhere. And that's something that we've always got. And more and more people then have experiences and come to understand that, hey, it may be crazy, it may
not make sense, but it's here and it's not going anywhere. Yeah, And I think we've talked about it before, about this scientific community, and so they're being more I mean when John mckennavall, I think that was great because it was bringing more of a scientific end to to the to the challenge, you know, of trying to understand, well, what's actually occurring.
And this makes me think of what happens when I talked him, and I run into this a lot of times, more so recently, people say, well, an extraordinary and they quote what Carl Sagan said of you know, an extraordinary claim demands extraordinary evidence, and that's about Hoppin You used to say, you know, yeah, an extraordinary claim demands an extraordinary investigation to get the extraordinary evidence, because the investigation part really has not been done to a
level that is necessary. It's not this is something elusive that's occurring. It's not something that's as giving it all up front. There's there's definitely a sense from what I've got at looking at this that it's a there's something very covert
about it. It's not. It's not it's not something to catch mm well, and like you're saying, I mean, even with this case, it's rare that all of the witnesses of extraordinary case like this one are being able are we able to interview them in depth and videotape those I mean, it's a rarity to be able to do investigation to the level that was done with this case. Sure, Yeah, it's definitely an unusual set of circumstances.
I mean I can look back on it now and say, well, why they I wish they did this or interviewed this person now, But they really did a good job considering the time and the technology and and the fact that you know, it's such a challenge, I think to really get good information because people are afraid of being ridiculed. And it's another big topic that I run into and think about. It's like, you know, we would, in general on this topic be a lot further ahead if people were not so
afraid to come forward. In doing this film, I can't tell you how many people have met who uh you have come forward and said, well, this is what happened. You know, this is what we saw, and they've never told anybody else about it because they're afraid of ridicule, or you know, it wasn't worth it to them to come forward because they were they were afraid that it would hurt them. You know in some way that that you know, that that actually hurts the culture when people are afraid to tell
what their experience is. You know, if if that's a truthful thing, then it's important that the whole society know or the whole civilization aware of it. You know, So the whole ridicule question is also very disturbing, I think m H. And I think it really points out to the to a really greater fear that people have of actually looking at this unfortunately, right. And it sounds like, you know, the teachers that kind of went through this, that these the kids, uh, we're so excited they're reporting,
Hey, this incredible thing just happened. And you know, I think we can all kind of probably sympathize a bit with the uh. The the teachers kind of being like, what are you talking about? You know, kind of taking a back and probably not wanting to believe it until they finally did. I mean, how did the teachers describe that to you? The uh A transition for them, right, Yeah, Well, the transition was around
because it didn't stop. Uh you know there the kids didn't stop talking about it, and they were insistent really because they really had to fight for the truth in their you know, I can't the kids were it was difficult for
them. They had seen something and they literally had to not only were they I think stunned by what they saw, but they had to convince everybody else that that is actually what they they saw, including their parents and the teachers mainly, And so yeah, I actually feel a lot for those kids, you know, at that time, because I think it was difficult and I think, you know, again, what the what really made the teachers and
most of the parents take it seriously was that the consistency. This was something that was consistently reported in detail by at least sixty four kids, and many more saw, you know, other phenomena, but not not to that detail. The Native children, or at least the children in general there you referring to their kind of the Western influence. Did they have much of a Western
influence? Did they? Did they watch a lot of our entertainment for example, I mean, would they have been influenced in the description of the entities they saw by our media? I think some of them, I know some of them had satellite television, but definitely not all of them. But it was definitely there was technology there. It wasn't as up to date as as we were in the States in ninety four, but it wasn't, you know, a complete rural village, even though there were some of those kids were
from rural villages. As far as the entirety, I can't say that for the entirety of the school. So it was there was something there, definitely. I mean, you know, the technology was there for media, but not in the school. It was it was in certain students' homes, gotcha. And so you went to go interview some of these students also now that they're older, and I guess about how old were the kids now? And how many did you get to interview? Bluk fifteen or twenty? And then
I spoke to called me forty all together on email? Oh wow, that's quite a bit. Yeah, that's quite a bit there, you know, you know they were at they're in their mid twenties essentially now, and yeah, it took a little while to track them all down. They all remember that day very well for the most part. Are any of them doubtful in that? You know, just because this happens with with sightings, occasionally people
start to think, did I really see that? You know, they start to question themselves, partially because it's difficult to be someone to experience it. Yeah, phenomenon like, yeah, true that there there definitely were a couple of kids that today who were questioning what they saw, but the significant amount, I mean, the most ninety percent of them anyway, I'm pretty sure what they saw. Wow, mhm. So and now they're they're more articulate.
They are adults, young adults. Did you get them more description then they were able to offer as children? In some in some cases the the but not all. I wouldn't. I'd say I got more uh descriptive uh description of of how what they went through, their feelings and awesome the subject and what they saw that day and were their feelings. There's probably a range of feelings. But how do you feel about what they experienced? Well, I don't think. I think they just, you know, it was just
something that that happened. I don't think they I think I think it sort of shocked them as a whole. I can't speak for all of them, uh, but uh that all of a sudden they found themselves in the position of having to defend themselves from people that didn't believe them. And I guess the striking thing for me finding them all was that they've never forgotten it. I mean, it was very very fresh in their mind for the most part,
and that how that that time had affected their lives. Wow, were was that kind of the I mean, the emotion of experiencing it, of course is pretty shocking. But some of them, I mean, did they have did they feel a very high level of frustration not being taken seriously? Yeah? I think so. I mean even there, there were definitely people I ran into who didn't want to be interviewed because of again the ridicule factor
or wow, you know, and it's terrible. I mean, there's information being lost in those instances when people are not willing to come forward and speak about it because they're afraid of what other people are going to say. Because you're losing information and the society's you know, the civilization is losing information that's actually valuable to figure out what, you know, what's occurring in these events. But yeah, definitely people a few that I ran into were very reluctant
to speak. Yeah, like you said, yeah, that's that. It's really sad and hopefully I'll come forward later on, but it can be I can you know, any I think anybody can understand the difficulty for these guys because as you know, and I know, I mean even once, for instance, you tell people you're working on something like this, you know, then it becomes a topic and in some cases ridicule or being looked at funny
or work or it's not always easy. No, no, With these guys, now that they're older and they're able to articulate it more, these messages in the form of pictures, were you able to get more information about that aspect, not specifically about it. I think the main information works recovered back to them. War Uh yeah, I you know, just feelings about that. I think the relevancy of it today came up. What do you think
about that? Because that's been an ongoing kind of message, And if you're familiar with but Hopkins work or drawn Maac's work, or other who work with people who doctor Sprinkle, another psychologist who actually has done a lot of more inventories behind this, the constant message of you know, you're messing up your planet, you got to fix it, and don't you think. Yeah, like we talked about earlier, it's interesting that that message has finally gotten into
our subconscious. Do you think there's a relationship between these third parties, this seemingly third party coming in and telling this this and here ten twenty years later, but us beginning to take this message serious yeah, I honestly don't know,
but I find it very interesting absolutely. I mean I don't know, but there's been enough reports and in a lot of the research to consistent, consistently occurrence that it's in some way like a big brother, you know, and a big brother, but you know, there's messages being sent one way or another, and I'm not sure. I just but I just find it
interesting. Yeah, m hm, yeah. I was thinking, you know, mentioned earlier like John mac and but Hopkins, and I think you know, I knew both of them very well, and I know that in this people categorized as John positive and that's negative about it. But really I never saw that much of a difference in the way they looked at this subject. I mean, they both what I what I find really the most powerful thing was they both took it seriously and neither one really had the answers, but
they were just recording data. And you know, I sometimes run into people and you know, they they try to they talk about it in a positive or negative aspects, you know, like it's a positive thing or whatever. It's not that it's anything you know that I've seen anyway, It's it's both you know, you look at nature. You look at different aspects of anything, You're going to have both sides. It's just part of the it's part
of the duality of nature. And anyway, I just wanted to say that because I know budd it felt like people would categorized him into sort of a
negative category around this issue, and he wasn't really negative. He just you know, he was looking at the data that he had and I think that, you know, in a lot of ways, John also agreed with a lot of the data that Butt had, and I don't know, there's just a I think we lose something when we try to categorize into one way or another instead of looking at it as in an all encompassing at all encompassing perspective. It's a really good point you make, because neither of these guys are
going and pounding the drum of you know, positive or negative. They're doing their work and they're gathering data. But these labels are imposed upon them by people. And it's interesting how people just need to categorize things like that. But like you're saying, these are these are labels that are imposed, not ones that they're seeking. They're just gathering data and getting that information across. Yeah, and if you you know, if you consider only one set of
data valuable, you're losing You're missing a lot of information irrelevant. Yeah. Another unfortunate way we lose data is thinking, oh, you know, this fits my worldview. I like this, so I'm only going to look day. It doesn't mean that. I mean, it's what really strikes me is, you know, it's spending an awful lot of time in nature. It's just partoap in wild life. I'm spending a lot of time on wild life. You know. Some of the most beautiful experiences and beautiful sides you see
are the sound. But if you wait long enough, you'll see the other side. And you know, and that's just part of it. You know, some of a creature that you might think is the most gentle, amazing creature in the world, and you see it killed something else. What's happening all the time. You can't discount that. It's real and it's part of that creatures make up. And you know, that's just nature. It's harsh and beautiful at the same time. And you definitely see that particularly strongly in
Africa. I'm chuckling because it just makes me think of my little dog here because I'm a vegetarian, but she's not. She's a carnivorous and she's a cute little chihuahua, but she will go killing not for her food. Yeah, it's a yeah, it's a great point, and it's a nature of things. And I think you're right. We can't ever just kind of label and say everything's good, everything's bad, and I we hamper ourselves when we do so. Yeah, because somebody, I haven't met anybody that really has
all the answers on the topic. All right, So I think we as a as a human beings really need to be it's shake into account all the reports and information and figure it out. We can figure it out. It's we're not trying hard enough, I believe. Yeah, for various reasons, agree that we do have the capability or a couple more questions on the children real quick? Were there did any of them like let these messages? Did
they guide their lives? I mean, in other words, uh, are did you find it some of them are working in environmental uh getting in degrees that way to to actually try to heed those warnings. Did it have an influence on them that way? Uh? Not entirely? What I was very impressed. Was was that that they're rather successful kids. M For the most part, they seemed intelligent, I mean and different aspects. Uh there there,
Yeah, very intelligent kids. And yeah, I would not say particularly in ecology right at the right word, but from knowing these kids today, I would definitely say that they have a really good perspective about what's going on in the world and ecologically and with pollution and stuff like that. They're very
aware how that is going to play out. I mean, I am very interested to see when this film is released, who will bring forward because I would like to there are still people out there involved in this that were involved
in this incident that I have not been able to find. And I'm very interested to speak with people further down the road because you know, people evolve, and in these kids, these guys near early in their mid twenties, and I'm interested to see what these kids do in their thirties and forties and sort of keep keep an eye on them. But now I really feel like they're a lot of these really some wonderful kids. Honest, you know, pretty pure and honest kids. Don't know how close are you do? Having
the movie ready, I'm still a few months away for sure. Okay, but I'm talking away cool every day and every night. It's a lot of work, a lot of footage to go through, and yeah, and they have it under the project section Current Projects on the John eMac Institute website. I did what do you think? What are your I guess overall impressions of what happened? I don't know if you you probably asked yourself these questions, but who landed and for what reasons? Good question. I'm not I'm not
entirely sure what the reasons were. I mean, there there there's a lot of thought, and the kids thought about this a lot, wondering what the purpose was, whether they had some kind of mechanical issue or it was specifically designed for them to interact with these kids at this time. Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely gonna get into those theories in the film because the kids brought them up. They were they were wondering, why did this occur? Why does this occur at this time? You know, there's a lot of
other things that were going on that time. That was in South Africa right across the border they were going through. Was the end of part time Mandela was elected. I mean the very big change in the political turff. I mean in that that that that area, Yeah, a lot. There was a lot of interesting stuff going on at that time, interesting things. M h so yeah, so it's still just that and that often happens in this The more we learned, it's still just as mysterious as it was before we
started. Mm hmm. A lot more data, but a lot more data is needed, I guess before we can really reach answers. Yeah, there are big hole holes, uh that yeah, during but we're you know, people, I guess there's been progress made over the decades, slowly, but surely what did you hear? What's going on? When with your what is kind of your view is putting forth this movie? What do you hope or the documentary? What do you hope people get from it? I just hope
it opens people's minds a little bit. I think as a species we need to we really need to be aware of, h h the potential impossibility of other life out there. I mean, it's just honestly in mind, it's
just a matter of time before we know it. From astronomical perspective, when you know we're we're already finding these planets or ringing around other suns and it's just a matter of time before we're going to nail life and say okay, there's other life, and then it'll get to the conversation of more intelligent life. But I think we really need you know, the responsible thing is a species is to be aware of of potential uh threat. I mean not necessarily.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a threat, but the possibility of something else out there. It's just wise if if it's not. I don't think it's a good approach to to look out out there and and immediately say it's nothing's out there, nothing more intelligent than us is out there. I think that's just not a good not a good approach. Yeah, baring our heads is about the situation to facing it. Not a good answer, Yeah, and it does. It doesn't necessari only mean it's going to be bad,
but it could be right. And you know, if if we're not aware, then it doesn't matter because whatever's going to occur is going to occur. You know. I I guess what's speak of it on a wildlife perspective, you know, that's the same thing. Yeah, you have to be aware of what else is out there. M Hm, well, we're about out of time, but thank you so much for joining me today, and I really appreciate it. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's an interesting case, and thank you so much for doing this. I mean, I
think what you're doing is really important. I think John maxwork was important. This case is so incredibly interesting. So it's I'm just I can't say how excited I am that you've picked up this project and you're doing this. And it was a lot of fun, and it was really great meeting you also at the UFO Congress. Yeah, that was that was an experience. I hadn't spoken in public for a long time. I was very I was very nervous. But yeah, it's been a lot of work. I can't even
tell you how much work has gone into this project. It'll be good when it's done, and hopefully it'll move the conversations forward somehow. And I think it will. I hope, so I think I think it will too. Actually, yeah, oh right, thanks, all right, thanks Alejandro. Okay, that's mister Rndy Nickerson And so, yeah, how exciting is this documentary he's working on. This is going to be great, you know, And like I said, I got to see you a little bit, and
the interviews are great with the kids who are twenty something. And his filmography is great, really good because the camera work because he's got a great eye for photography, so it's really pretty. So I'm really excited for this documentary. You can go to jant John Emacs site. It's the John Macfoundation, and if you click on projects, you'll see more about this project and hopefully you'll see some updates there. Otherwise, I will certainly be keeping you up
to date and hopefully we'll see this project finished by year's end. Thank you all so much for joining me again today. It's been a lot of fun. Be sure to check out UFO think tank dot com or that's just going to redirect you actually to UFO DailyNews dot com. That's ufodailynews dot com for the latest in UFO news, updates and everything going down. You can check the newsfeed. I haven't written a lot of stories this past week because I've
been busy at work and I've got this conference to work on. So go to the link. Register for the conference fast, you get yourself a seat at the dinner and join us. Next week we'll have another exciting show and again thank you too and enjoy the closes music by to Earth Minutes. Talk to you later. People. Okay, I'm very happy to have on the telephone. That was the wrong button. I do apologize. S