Paola Harris, Women's UFO Symposium

Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is a UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Ban ban Bong Bong Bong boom Bong. I love that song. There is a guy, Systematics is his name, and he was a listener of the show and he was around. This was at the beginning and when it was UFO Think Tank and he gave us that audio. He does all kinds of cool songs. He's like, use any of my

songs you want. He used to have a MySpace with his music up and stuff, and he had a YouTube and it's all disappeared and now people are asking me where's that music come from. That's great, man, but yeah, the guy is not around anymore. It is really cool music. And if you're out there, Systematic, thank you so much for letting us use it because I love it. But you know, especially this one dude quick calling me and asking me, I can't get you the info. Sorry,

dude. This is open Minds Radio and I am all a hundroohas. Thank you so much for joining us and talking some UFOs with us. Well, you're listening, but you may be talking at the radio, which is just fine. You know, if you're driving down the road and you're like, no, hey man, that's not real. Hey, you guys are boneheads. That UFO is real. You know, talk to us even if we

can't hear you. It's fun. And I think somehow, on a subconscious level, we do hear those things, you know, even if they don't speak with their voice, and just mentally, I think somehow subconsciously your message gets across. Uh. And you know that's great. We're all one brothers insist us. Anyway, thank you for listening. We have a great show tonight. Our guest is Paula Harris. And I know I'm not saying that.

Right's an Italian name. Everybody says Paula, so I mostly call her pauland she's mine with that because this Americans have a hard time saying Paola. I think it's that like pow La Paola Harris. But anyway, she's on the show and we're going to be talking about her Women's UFO conference that is coming up in May. Pretty exciting. A lot of the women in her conference have been on our show and our women that I know and ador and they're great people, and so that'll be a lot of fun. Also,

we're going to talk about a woman she interviewed recently named Kim Arnold. She wrote an article on her interview that's going to be an Open Minds magazine and that's very exciting. And this is a woman who is the daughter of Kenneth

Arnold. And if you've watched a UFO documentary on television, then you know who Kenneth Arnold is because they all start off with Kenneth Orle the beginning of modern UFO research with his citing in nineteen forty seven, and he was a pilot that had a sighting of a UFO and he said it looked like discs that were skipping on water. And so some brilliant rider back then did it? Did did it? Did it? Did? Did flying saucers seen by

Kenneth Ardold? They named him flying Saucers, even though they weren't necessarily saucer's sake shaped. What he saw kind of more of a round horseshoe type of thing. But one thing that we do not know that Paula was able to uncover in this interview is that he had several sightings and I didn't know that. I don't think anybody knew that until recently. So we're going to talk to Paula about that. We'll talk to her about more UFO stuff because she's

always out there in Europe doing tours and involved with this whole subject. So it's going to be a lot of fun so and I think it's something that you're very much going to enjoy. I certainly had a good time talking to her when we recorded this earlier so on the show. Yay. However, before that, I do want to make a mention, of course, about the UFO Congress. This is this little congress thing. I don't know if I told you about this before. We're going to have this little conference out

here in the Phoenix area, in the Pashi Scottsdale area. In fact, PGA is going to be out there next week. That's how fancy this area is. All the richie riches, and I'm sure some of them are going to hang out for this UFO Congress. Who wouldn't. So we're having this cool UFO conference with lots of cool people, Stephen Greer and Whitley Strieber and our good buddy from Factor Fake Van Hansen, my good buddies who we had on the show recently, Bryce Zabel and Lee Spiegel, and then lots of

our other friends are going to be there. Stan Romanik, you guys saw him last year, you loved him. He's going to be there signing books. Paula, our guests tonight's going to be there also signing books and selling books. So it's just going to be a lot of fun. A lot of people are there and you can come meet and mingle and talk and so go to Ufocongress dot com and register because time is running out. It's going to be February in like two days, and this conference is February twenty seconds.

You really have to move quickly to make your plan, to buy your plane tickets and figure out, you know what your in law or your parents wherever you're going to send your kids and your dogs and stuffed so they can be taken care of while you're gone, so you don't have long to take take advantage of all this thing and then come to the Congress. So you better get on the ball. People, it's going to be a lot of

fun. One of the people you're going to be able to see, there is this extraordinary fella who follows UFO news and he writes about it practically every day. This guy is remarkable, and almost as remarkable as his vast UFO knowledge and the great job he does on following the news is his hair. He's got kind of this. Sometimes it's a real mohawk. Sometimes today it's more of a foe, but it's stick up stick scept in the air.

Very exciting and I love it and you're gonna love it too. So come to the Congress and meet our news correspondent Jason McClellan, who is actually here with me today to talk some UFO news. Jason, how are you? I am always wonderful, Alejandro, how are you good? Good good? I'm glad you approve of my hair, so I love it. If you spend a lot of time talking about my hair, it's so fun, it's

awesome, excellent. I'm glad it gets the point across. Well. Greetings everyone, This is your Open Minds News Brief for Monday, January thirtieth, twenty twelve. And as Alejando mentions, the UFO Congress is right around the corner and if you are going to be there, please do come up and say hello. Alejandro and I love meeting listeners. It's fun to meet people in real life, so please do come up and say hello. Even if we're busy, we may say hey, Hi. Yeah, don't be offended

or think that we don't like you. If we kind of it seems like we brush you off. We are going to be very busy, but still we would very much like to meet you. And I had the pleasure of meeting a handful of our listeners out in LA this past weekend from the good buddies at the Simpsons. Yeah, that's awesome. You got to tell the story a little bit. Well, I went out and had a great weekend in California and got a chance to stop by the Simpsons office and say hello

to a lot of our listeners there. We've got a big, big crowd at the Simpsons, so we definitely appreciate those guys, and it was fun to meet them and spend a very brief time interrupting their busy work to talk about UFOs. But it was a blast, and we're Simpsons fanatics worshippers. Yeah, so it was a super treat for me and I left Futurum. I'm crazy about it. Well, I'm sure they'd like to hear that. Yep, we have it all right. Well, let's get into some UFO

news. Well, here's an interesting story from last week. American author Henry Miller apparently had an interest in UFOs. It turns out that the famous author became fascinated by the UFO subject when the so called flying Saucers first emergent and popular culture in the late forties and early fifties. He referenced Donald Keyhoe's work in two of his books. Miller even describes his own UFO siding in his

book, Big Sir and the Oranges of Heronomous Bosh. And this is an interesting story that our colleague Antonio June has dug up and put together a pretty cool article on our website right now Open Minds TV. So check that out. That's kind of interesting. And Alandro, when I hear Henry Miller's name, it reminds me of Seinfeld. You and I are also big Seinfeld people. And this reminds me of the episode with the library cops after Jerry because

Jerry has the overdue Henry Miller book topic of cancer. You know what's funny to you? Hear a lot about Henry Miller. Henry Miller, and he's kind of like the quintessential author. But I don't think we had to read any of his books in school. Well, I don't think I was an avid reader in school, and I don't think I think read one. I think a lot of schools banned his works. Oh okay, because they're they're so naughty. Oh they're naughty book, Yes, very naughty books. So

they they're they're on a lot of schools bandless. Yeah, even more intriguing. That's why Jerry wanted to read it and then George wanted to borrow it because they were so risque and so exciting. All right, Yeah, like their favorite movie Rachel Rochelle, that's right, Rot Journey from Milantomous from Milanto myth. Wow. Interesting, that's really cool that he's into he was into UFOs. Yeah, and you should have seen Antonio when he when he made

this discovery. He was so excited. It was like a school boy. Guess what I'm going to write about? But yeah, so he's got that that article on the website right now, so check that out. And it's always interesting when we we have stories that I mean, he's not necessarily a celebrity, but he's definitely a well known, you know, person in popular culture. Yeah, and uh, you know, in the literary circle.

You don't see UFOs a lot in that literary circle. It's more in the science circle, right, or even if they do have an interest, I just don't hear about it as much. I guess you are right. So great discovery by Antonio. Way to go, Antonio. Well here's a story

I enjoyed from last week. It's kind of a funny situation here. Well we need san fomolt Et, professor at the Moscow Bay Space Research Institute and member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, recently published findings in the Solar System Research Journal claiming that photos from Russia's nineteen eighty to Venera thirteen landing probe shows

life on Venus. According to the Telegraph, the scientist claims that multiple objects, specifically a disc shaped object and an object with a scorpion shaped body, appear in the photos, and they appear to quote, emerge, fluctuate,

and disappear. He explains in his paper, quote, what if we forget about the current theories about the non existence of life on Venus, let's boldly suggest that the object's morphological features would allow us to say that they are living in quote, but according to MSNBC quote outside and analysis suggests he is breathing life into an assortment of camera lenses, camera lens covers, and image blurs

in quote. One person who doubts the Russian scientist's conclusion is Jonathan Hill, a research technician and mission planner at the Mars space Flight Facility at Arizona State University. Hill processes many of the images taken during NASA's Mars missions, so he's familiar with examining photos from landing probes. It is his opinion that the

disc shaped or crab like objects the object is simply a mechanical component. He supports his theory by explaining that the same object is visible in a photo taken

by an identical Venus landing probe that landed nearby. Hill postulates, if those objects were already on the surface of Venus, what are the chances that Venera thirteen and fourteen, which landed nearly one thousand kilometers apart, would both land inches away from the only ones in sight, and they would be in the same positions relative to the spacecraft it makes much more sense that it's a piece of the lander designed to break off during the deployment of one of the scientific

instruments. According to MSNBC, it is NASA's opinion that the crab like objects in the photos are quote, camera lens covers that popped off the narrow probe after they landed, and the scorpion shaped body is simply digital noise in the photos. And you wrote about this too, Alejandro, what do you think about the claims made by this Russian scientist, Well, the claims he has

yet to sufficiently obviously make his argument. However, he says, you know, he made this discovery in the eighties, which was when this probe was on Venus, and that he was too shy to talk about it because he thought, you know, nobody's going to believe this. So it's only recently, with all of the planets out there being discovered that could harbor life, that he felt more secure, Hey, maybe this will be looked at in

a better light than it would have back then. He's released his material, he says, he's got more material and he's going to write some more. So I think he still needs to because it does look you know, it's hard to make get things out from what he's saying. But you know, to his point too, some of the he's talking about things that are moving around for twenty five minutes, so not something that is just laying there or perhaps you know, being blown away by the engines of the land or as

it lands. So I guess it's yet to be seen. I think some of the arguments are really kind of ridiculous. Here. You have these scientists coming and saying it's a good point to make that the temperature on venus is is very hot, like eight hundred degrees spahrenheit over five hundred degrees something like that, so it's extremely hot, so it's most likely like couldn't live there. But they're saying, you know, some of these scientists are coming out

and saying, oh, it's impossible. I haven't seen the video. It's impossible because it's too hot there. Well, how do we know. We

don't know. I mean, you can't discount these things until you yourself look at this video, Like like the guy you talked about, Johnson, the guy from ASU, Jonathan Hill, right, yeah, at least he looked at it, you know, and and studied it to see what he thought, so he has a more credible opinion and a more educated one since he actually looked at the images, but just to blow it off alone because it's

too hot, you know, too hot, too cold, whatever. We don't know much about where life can can grow, and we found it in so many places where we didn't think we would. That at least those arguments, you know, fall a little short. At least they give the guy the respect to take a look at his work before you make an opinion. Yeah, these hasty, just flippant dismissing without bothering to take a look. It's it's really insulting. Yeah, And of course, how exciting would that

be if we do find something? I mean, even you know, Paul Davies, Davies right from as you was talking about or from uh, yeah, the possibility of looking at pictures we already have of my moon to find evidence of life. So maybe there is data we already have collected that does demonstrate something, And how exciting, How cool would that be? That'd be so cool And I would love to look at those photos, but you know, I'm not a trained person looking at those photos, and I think it

would waste a lot of time. Having somebody who has no idea what they're looking at or looking for to look at the photos. But and again that's a good, good reason to have this guy from ASU who has looked at Mars images. You know, at least that that's more to go on. He knows more what he's looking for and knows more of the typical glitches that are seen in photos. Right, you know, NAS like they've done that a lot recently, explained things is camera glitches, and well that's probably the

case. You know, that's also jumping to a conclusion all all the times I think there could be something. I mean, you've seen some of these photos from the rovers and they're not always in focus. Even the rocks on the ground are kind of blurry and stuff. So to say something that you see sort of farther away that's kind of blurry, is, oh, that's an image glitch. Might jump to conclusions a little fout there, but well we're rooting for you, doctor Kisano Malati. There you go. We need

to learn how to say I think we need to learn Russian. Yeah, because Russian Russia has been in the space news a lot later. I know there, I don't know you would almost say they're the space for four runner right now. They're certainly putting the pressure on. They're giving us our rides to the space station. So yeah, well because of that, let's see,

let's go into the next story. Space travel, space exploration, and the search for extra trustrial life were hot topics in twenty eleven, and it is my prediction that these topics will be discussed even more in two thousand two. Well. Current space exploration projects, planned missions, private space companies, and the emergence of the space tourism industry are all contributing to the new space race as countries around the world are pushing to put more people in space and

on celestial bodies. The space topic was brought up at the recent twenty twelve Republican candidates debate in Florida. When asked about the space race, nude Gangrich stated that he would like to see the US go back to the Moon permanently, implying the colonization of the Moon, and he thinks a priority should be

quote getting to Mars as soon as possible end quote. He also shared his opinion that quote building a series of space stations and developing commercial space is something the US should do mitt Romney also stated that space travel should be a priority for the country, and the day after that debate, Nude Gangridge went on to say that the Moon should be the fifty first state of the United Ray we claim the Moon, I'm sure the rest of the world would love that.

Yeah. Paint the whole thing red, white and blue leg flag so when we look up there it looks like the American flag. Yeah, I'm sure that's his plan too. And the thing is this is low laying political fodder. I mean, it's easy to say, right now, we need to go to the Moon, and you know, I'd say that that's great, But of course, how do you make that happen when budgets are so tight and at the same time you're screaming to cut funding on everything. So

it's great fodder for them, because of course it is. But Obama has not done much with space travels, right He's basically said he's doesn't interest him, and he's done more of a Republican thing. He's privatized it. Right. Well, And I will say this, I am not ashamed to say that I'm not a fan of newt I'm not a fan of myth. But they both do make good points, and you know, with their support of

space exploration and going to the Moon and going to Mars. They both agree with that point that the key to doing that is not using public funds but privatizing spaceflight, using that giving private companies incentives to develop the technology to get us there, which is essentially what's going on exactly. So yep, so we'll see what happens. But yeah, Nute says that if he's elected in his second term in twenty twenty, you will have a base on the Moon.

And it does. I mean, the based on the Moon makes a lot more sense in the International Space Station and a lot of scientists were saying that at the time because that's someplace that's easier to maintain, cheaper, and it's a launching point. It's a better place to launch on missions tomorrow or places from right. Here's an interesting entertainment story from last last week. Fran Dresher claimed she was abducted by extraterrestrials. The actress best known for her annoying

role as the title character in the nineties sitcom Than Nanny. She recently told the Huffington Post that both she and her ex husband were abducted by extraterrestrials before they met each other, and she claims the situations in which they were each abducted are similar. She explained that her abduction occurred when she was in junior high and she was a teenager. She was driving down the road with her father. Her ex husband, also in junior high at the time, was

abducted while driving down the road with his father. Dresser stated, quote, a few years later we met and we realized we had the same experience. I think that somehow we were programmed to meet end quote. She even theorizes that an alien implant could be how the extraterrestrials programmed her actions. She claims that her ex husband has one too. She explained, quote, we both have the same scar. It's in the same Uh, it's the exact same

scar on the exact same spot. That's where the chip is. It's an interesting story, And when it came out, I think a lot of people thought she was joking around, but she is one hundred percent serious. Yeah. She told this to the Huffington Post reporter. He says, what's his name? Rob? Nasty or nasty but nice? Rob? Thing like that

name, And according to this guy. She was very serious, So, I mean it was kind of just three sentences that she said in this interview that he highlighted and now has become a story about her, and she seems to be really believed this happened. So very interesting. It is interesting,

and I haven't heard confirmation from her ex husband. I know he's commented on the scar before and he disagrees with her about the scar, and there's something about but right, he didn't comment on the event, which she says took place when she was in middle school and him somewhere else, another party they

didn't know each other time frame, had a similar experience. So yeah, I wonder if I'll ever speak about it, And what does it say that he's not Could it be that he just doesn't want to talk about it and he does think something happened. Maybe, But you know this, this was in the news last week and it continues to be in the news this week, So I wouldn't be surprised if he's sort of pressured into giving a response for addressing the issue because people will ask about it. Yeah, that's for

sure. So well, here's a fighting story. A man in Scarborough, England saw ufl last week and it freaked him out. Billy Kirk saw a strange ball of light over his home that he described as a stationary white light. Kirk explained to the Scarborough Evening News quote, I'm still in shock. I can only describe it as a big ball of light. I was scared. I just ran in the house and said to my girlfriend, I'm not going back out there. I didn't know what to think. I've never been

a big believer in things like that, but I can't explain it. It definitely wasn't the Northern lights, an aircraft or a Chinese lantern. I thought of everything. I didn't want to say anything at first, but I thought it should be reported. It could be a danger to our airspace and day. I think the Scarborough Evening News did a recreation and illustration of what the object was like in relation to him, has him standing outside in his yard

and there's this ball of light kind of zooming towards him. Freak me out. Yeah, crazy, I mean, and it just shows because I'm I mean, you got to take it when with a grain AsSalt when it's on the front page of the Sun, But I mean just shows. And we'll talk to with Paula about this a little bit. How interested they are in Europe about Yeah, you know this subject on and let's do one more, Alejandro. This is another sighting story. Mysterious lights were seen in the sky

above Utah County and Utah on Friday night. The lights were identified on Sunday when local resident Andrew Smith came forward to claim responsibility. The illuminated UFO was a creation of his that consisted of helium fueled garbage bags and flashing LED lights attached to a wire frame. According to KSL Channel five in Utah, Smith created his UFO as part of a contest to promote a website, and Smith

even claims that he's been launching similar craft for ten years. He explained, quote, I don't think it's fair for me to do this in good fun and then sits back and let everyone be in the dark and not know or not let them know what's really going on. Of course, even if you tell them what it was, a lot of them still won't believe you.

And that's a true statement there. But this is an interesting one. It was creating a lot of buzz in the Four Corners area and I even saw this on a news report in Colorado who were reporting on the mysterious lights Friday. So yeah, this guy came forward and says, yeah, I do it all the time, and that's great. I mean, sure there's gonna be people who aren't going to believe that he hoaxed it, and that's happened

with every hoax in the past. I mean there are even some of the big hoaxes, like the most popular UFO video on YouTube, the Haiti one, which the guy has come out and admitted he hoaxed, and some people still believe that it's real. And I wouldn't go so far as to say this guy hoaxed anything because it doesn't seem like he's trying to fool people, because he wants to come forward and let people know what's going on. Stuff

doesn't exactly look like a UFO. I mean, it's really colorful. And I'm using the term not that he maliciously did anything, but that he created just to make the point that it's still good that these guys come out and let people know, because not everybody is not going to take his work for Although a lot of people will say, oh, okay, great, thank you. You know, I didn't know what it was I saw, and most of the UFO witnesses that I've talked to as a move on investigator and

everything, they just want to know what it was. You know, they don't necessarily have a preconceived notion that hits an extra tresh rule and that's what it had to be. They want to know what it was. And when they get an answer and they figure it out, often they're very happy. Yeah, exactly. And you know a good example of something like this is the New Orleans NFL video from last year. You know, that's something that

you know. Lis Biegel from the Huffington Post was contacted by the NBC photographer who took that footage of this weird object moving behind the cathedral, and he provided footage showing how he creates this time lapse video and has the original footage of the airplanes's flying by, and said, when I was sitting there waiting for this half hour process to finish, I was watching the airplanes fly by

coming in for a landing at the nearby airport. But they were plenty of people who didn't didn't want to accept that explanation even though the proof was right there. Yeah, tough, tough, you can't you can't make everyone happy, but that's the way it is. Yeah, you know, we're we're looking for the truth here. We're looking for the credible stuff that we know. And and you said it before, I mean, yeah, we're we're kind of disappointed when you know, it's not something as exciting as we thought

it would be. But you know that's what we're after. We're after the truth. You know, we don't want to be fooled and be excited about something that's nothing. I mean, we want we want to find what the real answer is. I don't want to be staring at a balloon that I think is a ETE trying to figure out the technology behind the sutraterreastural craft and when it's not, I'd rather be told it's not. Now I'm not wasting my time. I'm writing at stuff that is more credible. I'm right there

with you, buddy. Well, Alejandro, that is it for the news. Remember, guys, you can check out all these stories and so many more at openminds dot tv your source for UFO related news, And if you have a news tip or anything else you'd like to say, you can always email me at Jason at openminds dot tv and you can follow me on Twitter at Acentric. All Right, guys, I am Jason McClellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to you Elehandro. Thank you,

Jason. Another great UFO briefing by Jason mccleollan. Also, remember you can see these at UFO DailyNews dot com. That's where I have my website, and I got some of these news stories up as well. We're both kind of out there covering everything and tweeting on this stuff too, So don't forget to follow our other social networks, which many of you do, are Facebook and our Twitter, and Twitter's a lot of fun. I gotta say, I wasn't into Twitter, and I thought, ah, you know,

what do I care what people are up to? But then I find, you know, some people use it as like a newswire and they send out, you know, stories and stuff, and you can keep up to speed that way and a very quick manner, and you don't have to go use your phone. You can go to the Twitter website and look what people are

talking about. And it's a lot of help to keep up with some of your favorite authors and other people out there who are letting you know, Hey, you know I'm going to have this interview here or I'm going to be on this television station there, so that you can keep up to speed with what's going on. So it is a cool thing. People check out Twitter, check out Yolfo Daily News, Open Minds, tv Acentric and Maureen has

a new and Space geek Life. Right Space geek Life. Yeah, that's her new and so you can check out our twe Twitter there too, so we're all tweeting. We're twitters. Someone who has a website and an active Facebook, but I don't think she has Twitter yet. I should talk to her about that is Paola Harris, who is our guest and I she's a UFO researcher, has been for years, started working with j Allen Heinek, who of course is a I'm a huge fan of this guy and we talked

about him often, and I asked Paula about that. So let's go ahead and listen in on Paula Harris. I am happy to have a good friend of mine from Boulder, Colorado. Although when I met you, you used to spend a lot of time in Italy. The UFO researcher Paula Harris, Hello, Paula, I Alejandro. I have like one foot in here and one foot in Europe. I have the best of both worlds. Yeah, that's awesome. And Europe has been really busy on this subject. Yeah,

there's a lot going on in Europe. They've had a lot of fightings and I'm working on two cases there, and believe it or not, one contact EA case and I'm always on the phone with him because a lot of interesting things are happening. And I wish I could just like fly across the ocean when these things happen. Because just in general, and you and I have talked about this, this subject matter gets to be a lot more open in

Europe sometimes than it is here. It's covered on the news, on the six o'clock news, it's covered on it's covered in the newspapers and stuff like that, and here I very rarely see uf both stories on any of the news channels. Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a lot because I cover I pay attention to all of the media. But really it's across the whole country. If you took one city, like let's say Denver in

particular, you know, maybe a few stories a year that's it. So across the country, there's a lot when you put everything together, but still each individual media organization only has a couple of stories a year or something like that. I guess I'm talking about television mostly because Internet filled pose stories.

Yeah, you know, on the Internet. I mean I think anymore, there's like there could be like an occupation called surfing the net because there's for UFO stories because so many are on Internet and they're put on by regular people. I mean people that are everyday citizens that can upload their video and they can upload their experiences. But what I'm talking about in particular is mainstream media,

oh yeah, news, top radio or television children. And in Europe, I feel that that's probably much more open than it is here because I'm always looking at see'll cover some kind of UFO story. Got cham Yeah, I want to talk more about Europe in a little bit, but I wanted to start off with some of what you're working on lately. And something that's really exciting that you're working on is your own conference in Texas coming up in may or your speakers this is unique, the first time ever are all going

to be women. Yeah, you know, I was trying to think of what I could create that would be completely different, that would be a different kind of sun the area than the regular UFO conferences that I've spoken at her, that I've attended, And it just came to me that And this is how it starts. That Angela Joiner, who's a journalist, to cover the

Stephenville Likes, really risked a lot for truth. She risked a lot because she was working for the Stephenville Tribune and and really became interested in the UFOs, and you know that caused a problem with her job. So I thought, look, if I worked with Angela to have a Stephenville Likes panel, we were to give her an award for excellent journalism, and we would have

the speakers be mostly women. In this case, all women, even though we have a panel of four men who are the chief Stephenville witnesses, and we have on Friday night the screening of the Him Hand by James Carmen from York. Now you know he won the EB Award last year for Best Film. So I have men at this conference, but what I'm doing is highlighting women, and I think that's a balance that kind of carries the balance for the regular UFO conference that is basically top heavy with men. There are so

many really deserving, excellent women. Now, one thing you might notice when you see the banner for us is that there's no gadgets, and there's no cartoons, and there's no filliness because we want it. We're calling it a symposium, a dialogue, and we're using very serious background on it because it will be like a dialogue, and people like Lynn Keytai, Doctor Lynn Keyty

is going to be one of our speakers. We'll talk about the effect of the Phoenix flight sightings on the mass public, and it's kind of the same effect that Stephenville had on its town down there, because it's kind of changed their worldview. So it'd be interesting we have Phoenix lights and Stephenville lights. And then we have Carol Rosen, who is an excellent speaker who wants to talk about the space based weapons and banning them in space, and she's very

serious and passionate about what she has to say. And of course Lisa Romanac, who's going to be speaking for the first time in public about her role as the wife of a contactee, and I know you know her very very well. The name of her book is the other side of the bed and she'll talk about what she's had to go through. So this is really exciting speakers. Yeah, this is going to be a lot of fun. I mean, these are all people I know and are great people, so it

ought to be kind of cool. And I think it's important, like you said, to add some balance and also to see that perspective, to see it through different eyes. I think it's important. What you're doing, well, thank you. And it's just creative. It's very creative. And I've told the women and this is going to be fun for everybody because Texas is a wonderful place. I've been down to Stephenville and Glen Rose in that area.

It'll be a big like Texas party. We're going to have a Texas barbecue on Saturday night and then Steve Allen, who's the principal witness of the Stephenville Light, is one of our supporters and he's going to take everybody to the old ranch. She said it has a very very unobstructed view of the sky where he saw this craft, this mile long craft, and we're all going there for a SkyWatch Saturday Friday. We're going to have a cocktail party

and I'm asking the ladies all to wear a red cocktail dress. Is going to be called a lady in red party. So and that's where James Carmen will also be, you know, screening his solm. So I'm trying to make it fun for people, So I welcome men. In fact, half men have registered so far, uh you know, half and half women and and and to make it something fun but also something extremely intellectual and important.

Yeah, it looks like it about what half an hour out of out of Dallas or Fort Worth is at the best place where people are flying into and then driving out. Yeah, well it's one hour actually out was fort Worth. And you know, if they had people are having questions about carpooling,

they can contact my companies called star Warks USA. I formed the company specifically for this, for this event, and I'm hoping that it will it will just give a breath of fresh air to uh, you know, the dialogue on UFOs in a place that's fairly conservative about UFOs and that's Texas, so

it's going to be really interesting. I'm you know, these Stephen will lights for me though Alejandro as a journalist is very very important because I just intered you, Steve Allen, and the fact that someone like him, who's the pilot and businessman, can really, you know, be affected by this. In my interview, I asked him, I said, you know, what would you say to the people because you didn't expect us to be real? And he just said to me that he had asked President Bush, who lives

down you know, down the road in Crawford, Texas. His words were, the gig is up, the cats out of the bag, would you please tell us what's going on? So I really liked it when the average you know, a citizen it wants disclosure like Steve does. Now, Now, how far away is your conference from Stephenville. It's about thirty miles from back from Stephenville. And that sighting was actually between glen Rose and Stephensville on

the Oldom which it was between Yeah, it was on a ranch. Uh. And Mike Oldham has has agreed to have us there on Saturday night. And you know something I didn't. I didn't realize that the phenomenon is still going on. The people are still seeing orbs and and and lights in the sky. Yeah, in the in those towns. Interesting. Now, maybe

Steve Allen, you said, he actually talks to President Bush. No, he he he went on, Uh, he's been on radio, he's been on he's been on radio, he's been on television, and he's been in the media. And his words to Bush are you know, but this is when you know Bush was in the White House, you know. He he basically said, it's time for truth. You got to tell the truth and

this you shouldn't be hiding this from the people. He believes he believes that whatever uh you know, political structure is in place, should be telling the truth to people. And and that isn't always. And that really surprised me because I thought that this phenomenon would kind of scare him and and and he really thinks that, you know that whatever it is, it's harmless. He said, whatever was it was in that craft was aware that I was there. He said, it knew I was looking at it, and it wasn't

doing any harm. And then he described that the two f sixteens that came out of nowhere and work good. Well, why don't you go ahead and explain who Steve Allen was and what happened to him, what he experienced during

the sightings. Well, he explained to me in the interview that it was one night that you know of. It was January eighth, nineteen ninety eight, and basically they some friends of his and Michaelsham asked him to bring over some beer because they have a dry county over there, and Steve lives in a wet county. I guess in Texas, you know there's dry counties and wet counties where you can have alcohol and not. So Steve got the beer. He went over to the ranch. He said, it was an unusual

sunset. He said, there was this really strange looking cloud in the sky, very unusual. And he said he turned around and in the sky he saw this these lights these he said, it was like almost a transparent kind of huge crafts sitting there with these orbs around it, these these lights around it. And he said they all saw it, and he said he was kind of dumb struck by it. It really surprised him because he's a pilot and he knows he's never seen anything like this, so he knew that it

was not an airplane. He couldn't figure out what it was. But within minutes, he said, two f sixteens came and this thing just shot away and and then it came back and they could see it in the sky a little bit farther. He had some interesting artist renditions of this. He is curious as to what it is. When Angela Joyner did the story with him,

he did something pretty amazing, Alejandro. He had his telephone number put in the newspaper, something that it's very courageous to put your telephone number in the newspaper. Because I asked him, why did you do that? And he said because, he said, anybody that sought or took a picture of it would verify what I saw. And he said, so unusual that I needed verification from other people. He said, I needed somebody else to say they saw it, you know, in the township, or maybe somebody'd give

me a picture of it. So that's when you know, it just opened up a can of worms. And people called him, including Leroy and Gayton. It was a constable and he had to talk Leroy into coming forth because Leroy had told him I'm a public officialist and proper and uh, and Steve said, yes it is. You have to be honest. You saw it with you, I think he thought with his sons. He said, you have to talk, you have to speak up. So it was a matter of convincing these guys to speak up, you know, in a place like

that too, in a quite conservative country. It it's uh, your thought of this crazy if you if you report things like that. So it changed the whole entire town. It changed everything. Uh, and they're still wanting to discuss this. So I'm excited that the four uh, the actually three Ricky Sorels, liro Gaiton, UH, Steve Allen, and then UH Robert Powell, who did the radar reports for Mouffon, will be in that panel.

Uh, Mouffon involved. And when Moufon got involved and got some solid in fact, Steve Allen gave me the pages of radar reports, a lot of them blacked out about the real incident. Then then we have something in concrete. We have Moufon moving in and and I'm gonna have something else, uh Alenjandro at my conference, the Moufon Texas will be sponsoring us by driving

in the UH. The women speakers move On Phoenix with Stacey Wright and Jim are sponsoring Linka TI move On Denver will be the ones giving the award to to Angela Joiner and move On Arkansas will be down there covering the story. So I have four move Ons from four different states that are really interested in networking. Oh that's very cool. I didn't realize that. And I think that sort of thing is another thing that's a really important. It's teamwork,

you know, all of everybody working together on the sort of events. Well yeah, but that's my vision. That's why it came about. I really think that they don't know each other, these MoveOn groups, so when they get together to to uh, you know, work on something together, like they're working on in the conference, uh you know, and people like Moufon uh Denver is going to give the you know, the award to Angela Joiner.

I mean, I think that that's just incredible and move On Texas has done so much and with Robert Powell doing the radar reading, it gives mouf On a real important stance in this and they are a great organization. Yeah. I thought that when it all happened personally, that Angela Joiner should have

gotten award from MoveOn. And it's great that they're participating in this because she was so important in getting this story to be as big as it was, and also she was key She was the one who really got a move on on Larry King when she was on there. She even said, you know, you shouldn't have me. Everybody's already interviewed me. You need to have these move on guys Robert Powell and Glenn Schaltz who did this Radar report, And they said, no, we still want you, but okay, we'll

have them too. So she was really great, a big help back then. Well, she also believes the network see women women believe in networking is it's because, you know something, if we could all work together. There's always been my thinking. If we could all sit at the table and share our research, we get to the secret a lot faster than hanging on to it or the infighting or the jealousies or whatever it is that there is in

the field. If we could all just have like a big, you know, study group, we get to this this secret and this mystery, it would be able to solve a lot more of it a lot faster. So my thought is always networking. And I'm excited about having these fre move ons coming down. They're all from different parts of the country. Uh, and be part of this conference. Yeah, that's really cool. I didn't realize they were doing that. I wanted to ask you your opinion as far as

women and uphology. I mean they are often you know, there are sometimes when there will be conferences where there are no women speakers. But it does seem like are there less women researchers in UFOs or do they just have different interests? What do you think the difference is? Well, you know, quite honestly, I think it's hard for a women to be in this field. I was told early on in this field that I stopped getting involved in

my nice little stories. I was told this by a top level researcher that I didn't that women get intally involved and they're not objective. I think I'm one of the most objective, and that's in most people on the whole planet. The thing is is, for the longest time, it's been in the male dominated field, and I don't think they think necessarily of including women all

the time. One of the greatest tragedies of all Alejandro, and it's on my Facebook right now, is the fact that we never invited Georgina Bruney here. Georgina Bruney was a top level researcher in England. She's a friend of Nick Pope's. Nick talked to me at Lent about her how excellent she was in the Rendel Shan Forest Betwater's case. She had the nerve to go up to Margaret Thatcher, you know the movies up now, the Iron Lady. She had the nerve to go up to Margaret Thatcher to party and say,

I know, Bette Waters Rendel's from Force. Something landed there and I know that's the real case. And Margaret Thatcher turned around to her and said, well, you better get yours facts straight and you better not tell the people. So Georgina Brooney wrote a book called You Better Not Tell the People Now. We never invited her here for any conference here. She's a major player, and she passed on two years ago. I think it was about two

years ago, so she's no longer with us. So on my Facebook, I have a tribute to her because she's a woman that I think we should have had to speak here, and a lot of our conferences we don't share. I know, we had Sen Sakarara from Turkey here quite often and I admired her. And the only reason I mentioned these women from other countries is

because you know, I think that that upologies should be international. Of course, we have the excellence of Linda Moulton Howe and Leslie Kane here, and you know, they speak often that there's a lot of other women in the field that do not get the opportunity to speak as much and are not necessarily

included with the what you call the in groups sometimes. Yeah, I mean I find it interesting that for me, when I think about my mentors in this field and people who I really appreciate and have worked closely with, it's mostly been women. There have been, you know, a couple guys, but it's mostly women right now. Even that I you know, that might go to people and stuff like that. There are a lot of influential women

in the field. And do you think it's partially I kind of hope that as the field changes right now, I don't think it would be inaccurate to say that it's dominated not just by men, but older men and who come from an era of such as you know, the mad men kind of era, the era where you know, there there was good old boy type of

things were the way business was done. And hopefully as time changes, you know, with people like my generation, we're not used to that, we're used to working with women and and you know, having women as bosses and and working together and hopefully that'll change over time. Yeah, let me add because you and I worked together. You were my webmaster many years. Uh.

And and I'm grateful to you. If I hadn't had you, but you, what you did was help helped me get the information out by working my website and working with me and I we did a couple of conferences. In fact, you used to do a conference in Denver, uh every year, and and and you invited me. I mean, but you're but you're not the average. Uh. You followed you so you you don't have that

bias. You never did and and I don't know what to say. First of all, let's talk about ufology as a it's something more than a hobby. Okay, it's as a passion, a mission, or or any kind of career. I it's really a thing that doesn't produce any money, It doesn't give you, It certainly doesn't give you too much feedback. It's very difficult to work together because there's a lot of differences in the field. I mean, the amount of debunking is going going around is incredible, and it's

being done by our own people. We don't even have to look at the fill classes. I mean, ufologists are debunking other ufologists work. It's and it's and sometimes it's very unpopular with your family. A lot of a lot of people I know that are in the UFO field, their spouses or their families are not exactly excited about their doing this. It still presents ridicule. When people ask me that an author and I've written, you know, five books, and I'm a journalist. They'll say, well, what do you

write about? Part of me just hesitates before I tell them, you know, part of me goes, I don't know if I should tell him, so I sometimes I say, you don't want to know. But what verily happens is I say to them, okay, I write about uf bodels and they go, oh, that's so great, that's so cool. But I don't expect that action when I tell them. So it's unpopular. So there's a list of negatives around working in the uf A field. And I don't

think women are like men are. Maybe the younger men too aren't as excited to jump into it as people were in the past. I mean, are icons of ufology the researchers that have been around for a long time have made a name for themselves, but the newer, younger generation is very difficult. Yeah. Well, and when I say, hey, you know my mentors are women, I certainly count you among them. I mean, yeah,

you were. It was wonderful when I got to live in Denver and we got to work so closely together, and I got to learn so much from your work and always been happy to help. Well, what was the name of the event they used to present every year at the area campus where you had Jeff Colorado UFO briefing the briefing absolutely, in fact, the picture of the brief used to do it on the sphears of Capital, right, Yeah, my very first one. We got a free speech license and did it

right at the Capitol. And the guests you had were amazing. David Sereda, you had Leo Sprinkle, you had Goodness Ryan Wood, And here are these people standing on the steps of the Capitol talking to the general public. I mean, you've had an incredible vision there. Then you went indoors. But you're the first one who had Jeff Peckman speak. I mean, you're responsible, and let's face it, Jeff Peckman did more for the cause as far as actual activism than almost anybody I know. I mean, he was

able to get thirty you know with it. I think it's seventy two thousand, thirty six thousand, seventy two thousand voters to vote yes for an extraterrestrial ballot initiative. I mean, that's unheard of thirty six thousand people pressing the button for yes. So, you know, and you started with that at the briefing, and Jeff Peckman's mission started there, you know, about getting

this into the offices of our elected officials. And see, that's I think that's the way to go because it doesn't put it in the fringe element. It doesn't make it crazy, and so it doesn't make it something that we shouldn't be looking at. I think we definitely should be looking at this. This is something an ongoing phenomenon that changes our entire worldview, like it did Steve Allen's down in Stevensville, Texas. What if you think about you,

was he really into UFOs at all before he had a sighting? Not at all, Not at all. No. I mean it's like with Angela. Either Angela wasn't It's like, once you touch this subject, you become obsessed by Then you want to know more. You want to know how long it's been going on, where these things has been happening, what the cover up is all about. So I think he's very in a very responsible way, asking who knows about this? Who? In other words, how is it

being hidden? And he's convinced somebody knows, like we all know, somebody knows. And I hate to say the government, because the government, I honestly believe this government, the elected officials, do not know anything about anything about this. The last thing they want to deal with is UFOs. I think that the who knows about this is that select group that manages it.

And what do you all of the black ops people or the military industrial complex or the intelligence community, it's that group that manages the information about this that knows. I don't think your average congressman, senator, maybe even the president is even aware of the intricacies of this cover up. Right. Yeah, it's funny that you go there, and it's interesting that you because a lot of people who have been in this field come to the similar conclusions. I

had Grant Cameron on last week. I've had him on often as well. But that yeah, the politicians in it. We see this over and over again, even with Barry Goldwater or Bill Clinton. They want to know something, but they just can't. They're not told anything, and they're not in

the loop. They're not in the loop. And those people that have been asked to be in the loop, like the Barry Gowers and Stephen Schiffs and and different governors that may want to know, they only know because they happened a living states where something has happened, and then they open like the can of worms or the Pandora's box, and then that they are told to keep quiet because they don't need to know. It's a matter of a need to

know basis. So what I'm looking at as a journalist anymore is I'm looking at which countries outside of the United States are doing the most. And I'm looking at France always because France started with the Committal report, but I'm convinced they're working on another report, and England, and you know, they're slowly releasing more information. Of course, at the UFO Congress you have i think a military man from Chile, which is going to be very interesting, you

know. And so Chile is looking at Brazil. Brazil is now has some files released. These are government files. I mean, people can't play the game of do you believe in UFOs because not religion, duly believe that some governments are releasing files that report UFOs the air because military have come up against them or commercial airlines have come up against them. Yes, are they real? Absolutely? The trouble is we got sure what's inside and where they come

from. Now, when you bring up Europe, I did want to talk about that and get your perspective because you, like you said, you spend a lot of time out there. You're kind of like a superstar in Italy. You know, you've traveled around Europe talking about UFOs, and it seems like what's interesting is there are very different perspectives when you go country by country. You have France, that's probably it's the poster child for taking this subject

on, probably the way we wish that everybody would. They're doing real research. You have England, which is kind of released some papers, but they still kind of make fun of it. And then you have like Germany who says, you know, they're really no, we don't care about UFOs, We've never investigated them, and giving this guy recently trouble who who is trying to get this file release that shows, yes, you did, at least at one time investigate UFOs and it's a file he knows exists. So you

have from country to country. Are the people like that, from country to country with really different perspectives? Yeah, I really do believe that they're you know, there is a different perspective. But you know, in the overall in twenty twelve, where we are now, where there's so many other concerns and countries have so much, so many problems with economics and you know, the rising price of gas, and people are hungry, and they have all

kinds of other problems. The governments of these countries do not want to touch UFO with a ten foot poll. They do not. However, however, I have to say, you have a speaker in your conference that I'm coming purposely to hear, and that's least Egal. Because at one time, if one country as small as Grenada could get a resolution into the United Nations, and Lee Spiegel was very important in getting that together. Uh, you know, with Alan Hyak, Jacquelin and Gordon Cooper in the seventies, if he

could actually do that. I mean, he could actually push that through to at least a dialogue part, even though it didn't get to be voted on. Then maybe some little, itty bitty country out there will push it through to the United Nations level, a country that is not, you know, worried about starving people or the economy or their banks or any other thing. Maybe a smaller country might do it. And if that happens, then then

we might open this up to the world and have an intelligent discussion. And I really love Lee Spiegel's attitude and activism in his in his way of approaching this, because it's a legitimate way. It's a planetary way. This is not an American problem, this is not an Italian problem or British problem. It's a planetary problem and we planet should deal with that. So he writes for the Huffington Post right now, and I really think that his vision is

one where you know, I'd like to put my energy into. I mean, you know, we can't work for individual countries, and there's so much going on right now, people aren't necessarily tuned in. But if it would get to the United Nations, it might be an answer, right Yeah, And it seems you know, yeah, I at least be go. I love that guy and I've had him on a couple of times now, just recently even and we talked about, you know, how the whole UN thing

came about. And actually I have an article coming up in our next Open Minds. You have one in there too, where I do an interview just focused on that, because it's incredible, you know that they were able to make that happen and people forget. You may remember a couple of years ago when there was this room of the UN having some meetings in a back office,

and people were getting real excited. But it was like for those of us who knew about this other U initiative that happened in the seventies, that big deal. You know, there were people in the seventies bringing this to the floor, talking to the General Session about UFOs in the past. Well, you know it is. I mean, even though I truly believe that the phenomenon is benign, it is a matter of national security. You're going to need to tell your pilots that they may have an incident and what to

do when they're out there. You can't have the pilot like Jean Jacques du Blac have a huge UFO over parents and not know what to do because he has all the passengers in the back. I think that's unethical, and not only that, it could be a matter of national security and that they're in other countries their space, so we could look at that should be alone something they would open it up. But Alejandro, there was another situation nineteen eight

at the sun Medino conference in Italy where Colonel Carso was there. I was there. I was present, and we had representatives from every country including Yeah, we had us double Day from France, Michael Husband from Germany. We had Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs, we had Yvonne Smith was there. Ivann is one of the only women that has really traveled the world with this UFO

situation. And Colonel Corso was there. And because some Merino was an independent republic, it has hardly any army, it didn't have any stake and you know, being criticized it was such a small country. There was a resolution paper sign there that Solo signed and all the people present signed to bring it before the General Assembly. So did they end up doing it, No, because I guess somebody now had an election and the the prime Minister of sun

Minno. After that the governor of the Prime Minister I didn't agree, didn't agree with Cassalis, who is the one at the time who was there.

And so the thing is that's interesting is that another we tried to do it through another small independent republic, and it never got off the ground because it has to be introduced by a country that is not going to be either embarrassed or have a stake in it. So, I mean, that's an interesting perspective and I'm glad you're writing about it because that is a possible way to go. We need to go past the sighting stage. You know, we've

got enough sightings to prove that it's real. We need to go now to more and more of an activist political stage, having more insight into European kind of activism in this field. Do you think there's any breaking country. Do you think we're going to hear something from another European government or are they just too busy with their economic woes right now? I think you're going to see another Cometa. Do you think France is not going to give this up?

France is interested, and I mean, you know you've heard Stephen Gersey a big Ga Country has contacted him. Well, it's obvious he's made so many illusions to France. We know it's France. They I don't think France wants to be caught unprepared for any kind of of what do you call it, not landing, but any kind of phenomenon that may happen. You know, in the end, this is all in the hands of the ETS. If they just decide to show up over an airport or show up over a city

and there's a bunch of them, we can't do anything about it. That's that's what's so funny about this. So far, they've decided not to play that, not to do that, not to not to manifest in unmass anywhere. But I mean, should they decide something should have been should be put in place, something in shooting them down. I mean something that would be

uh you know, diplomatically okay, should be put in place. And I think France is probably the only country that is looking into this with any kind of seriousness about what could be put in place, and even if it never happens, at least, you know, people are prepared. And I think that's that's why I really, you know, wanted to Originally I wanted to go into exo politics for that reason, because it was kind of a political, strategic, galactic protocol type of thing. I've kind of backed away from

it. Now. I have a brand new book that I've released called UFOs, How Does One Speak to a Ball of Light? It will be released February first, and I will have copies at the International UFO Congress and Phoenix, and I have nine protocols of this type in that book, because I think we should be prepared. I think we should be prepared on all levels, also on the level Alejandro to when we're looking up in the sky to

try to make a difference as to what's our stuff for their stuff. I mean, you know all that controversy now about the Belgium UFO that it was some kind of back engineered technology. I'm good grief. If that starts happening, we're really in trouble. We'll be shooting at our own stuff. Right. It's like it's like complicated for me. It's not only complicated, it's

serious. We don't know. I don't believe in shooting at UFOs, even though poor Milton Torres was you know, was apt to do that in the Air Force over England in nineteen fifty seventy was asked to shoot lock on and shoot at the UFO. But and this came out of the British files. But I mean, anymore, it's so complex, the feel that if we don't look at what's going on, we'd be making a whole bunch of mistakes

and putting ourselves in jeopardy. So one of the things that I really believe in is an intelligent, also informed kind of academic dialogue about UFOs, none of the silliness anymore. Well, that's another aspect of European euphology. And maybe one of the reasons why they've kind of adopted the exopolitics idea is because you have stated over and over that it's taken much more seriously the whole UFO thing out there, that their UFO conferences don't have little green blow up aliens

or some of the stuff that we have at our conferences out here. Yeah, but can you imagine. I mean, I've seen hotels where there are some very serious researchers, some top notch people, some anthropologists, some scientists who are speaking, and outside there's all these gadgets and these T shirts and so forth. The general public that walks by that is not going to take this subject seriously. You know they're going to start laughing. We don't have

that because we don't have the commercial aspect. America has a serious commercial aspect around everything. It's not just about little aliens. I'm trying to avoid that. In Texas. I don't want I don't want any little aliens or uf alls hanging from the air or anything like that. I don't want any of

that. People are welcome to sell their books and to you know, and to dialogue with the speakers and so forth, but I don't want that part because in a way, I think there's a lot of things that have happened with the UFO phenomenon that it's quite serious. It's not funny, and in order for the general public to take it seriously. And Europe who comes to these conferences, but you know in Europe they don't charge that much. Most

of them are free. And this is another situation. So you can get a lot of more people, and you get professors, and you get astronomers and meteorologists, and you get a lot more teenagers and university kids. I mean, one thing I don't see anymore is young people. I mean, I really think the real challenge for us in ufology is how to get young people interested in this so that they study this like they want a science project.

I mean, how do you do that? That is a real interesting challenge for all of us that I really do care, because you know, I'm an English teacher by trade of a master's in education, so of course I'm interested in the younger generation. How do you how can you have a dialogue with these guys when you can't even get them to come into a conference. And I want to tell everybody PAULA Harris dot com. I don't know if it's p A O L A H A R R I S dot com

or also they can go find out more about the conference. It's star Warks USA dot com. Will repeat those URLs again later, but I want to make sure that we repeat them a few time so people know where to go star Works USA dot com to go register for the conference because it is going to be something exciting and new and different. It's May eighteenth to the twentieth at Glenrose, Texas, so it's going to be something exciting. I really hope I can make it. I'm not sure if I can yet, but

I'm trying to arrange it so hopefully I will. I probably will be able to make it, but I really want to get there see you. Yeah, because it'll be something a little different, and it'll be we'll be going over the Stephenville case in detail, and it'll be you know, I think there'll be a lot of information for everybody. Also the fact that and you just had her. Tracy Austin Peters is going to be my moderator and she's real exciting. I always call her the movie star. She's the woman that

has a lot of charisma that we'll be able to introduce everyone. And we have a speaker, a new speak her Karen Grisham Nicol who is She is an intuitive counselor hypnotherapist who has worked in Europe in Brazil. She was a also counselor for Filini, the movie director. Uh Yeah, and worked in

Italy quite extensively. Uh She worked with on counseling and hypnotherapy with a group of miners in in uh in Virginia that had had UFO contact in the mines in the mines there and she was there a month and she will talk about that and She's just a very sensitive lady that has a lot to say about contact. And she'll be on Sunday and she believed it or not. Was born in Glen Rose, Texas and lives in Dallas. Really yeah, she lives in Dallas, and she kind of she came out of the woodwork.

I was really shocked. She she told me that about all of the people that she's talked to over the years, a lot of Hollywood people. She's an excellent, you know, intuitive but she's also a have no therapist that deals with contact scenario and you know, and and and I think that bringing in these new people, these people that have so much to say, uh and and having questions and answers from the audience will really be exciting. And

that's what we plan to do with her. That sounds like fun. Another thing I wanted to talk to you about is your article that I kind of mentioned earlier. You're going to have an article in the next Open Minds magazine, and I think this is something great that you've done. You were able to interview Kim Arnold, Kenneth Arnold's daughter, and she gave you some interesting information about the UFO case. That really is the one that's credited for kind

of beginning contemporary UFO studies. Yeah, you know, I had heard what had happened, and this is all, you know, coincidence, and you know me for that, all the coincidences in my life, right. But but I was on coast to Coo and Kenneth Arnald's granddaughter Chanel called in, said she was Kenneth Arnald's granddaughter. Of course George Nurry's wanting her telephone number

immediately, and a year later she gets hold of me. She says, my mother is Kim Arnold, and I will give you her telephone number. So I called her right away and it took We've had a dialogue for four years now, Kim reminded me it was four years. But the last four

months I've really tried to convince her to come forth and speak. And the reason why she didn't want to, even though a lot of people knew about her, was because her father had been hassled so much in his lifetime that he in his old age, was very disillusioned, almost embittered by the UFO community. And it made a big circus out of this and her father, who was a real accomplished pilot, when he saw the nine UFOs between Mount

Rainier over the Cascade Mountains, between Mount Rainier and Mount Adams. You know, was very very It just blew him away because it changed his worldview too. He was very honest about what he saw in king Forth and you know, even I think in his book, in the book The Saucers Have Landed with Palmer that he wrote with Ray Palmer, he says that the FBI made him, you know, offered to or he offered to take a mental test and a physical test because for his own credibility. People came after him for

the credibility factor. So he, like Steve Allen, was waiting for somebody else to report it. And this Captain Smith of United Airlines also reported seeing nine saucers on when he was on a commercial flight and his crew saw so. Kenneth Arnold and Smith were the two investigators of the Maury Island case up in Washington. Kenneth Arnold was waiting for other people to come forth to say they saw the same thing, because you know, I know how that is.

You probably think you're going crazy. You're the first one to report something like this. Now, when the general public or the news media asked him what it looked like. He said, it looked like a saucer skipping over water. Well, you know what happened after that is the news media descended on his house, made his life miserable. He was married to Doris and had four daughters. Kim is the third youngest, and she basically remembered unpleasant

memories about all of this. And I had come to sure that her father was a piece of Ufo history. That she had to come forth and talk to the to the people about what her father thought, because I'm curious what her dad thought. Her father had I think a total of eight sightings. The third sighting he had, he was in the plane by him the south the craft. What he saw was something morphing right now near the class uh

the craft. She said that he even at that time, you know, uh, I think put the window down, she said, and tried to look at it. And it was more things, she said, into uh a light that had like a pulsation to it. That he came to the conclusion that whatever was was alive. Now, this is what interested me. That it had a pulsation like a human heartbeat, and that it was intelligent,

and that it was alive. So Kim's feelings and her mother's feelings and her family's feelings were that these were almost like disembodied entity, that these these craft were alive, that they weren't just you know, metal, And this was something that a lot of other witnesses in the past had talked about, including Michael Wolfe, about the craft being part of the pilot and there being one and they're being alive, you know, being community, that it was

a biological craft instead of a metal craft. And so this interested me and think in the interview that's in Open Mind, Word Forward, Kim Marnle will tell the public what her father believed about these craft and the fact that he had more than one sighting that and that's the piece that people didn't know he had more than one sighting. That's really interesting. Did she say, you know, was that morphing citing the the other one that had the most effect

on him? Was there another one that was really shocking to him? What was that one? She said? The second one were nine orbs that looked like yeast flying, but they were gold. They were full circles. So he had different kinds. He had the chevrons kind you know, the nine chevrons that were like V shaped in the beginning. Then the d the second one was the gold orbs that he had seen, and the third one were

these two that seemed to morph in front of the ship. Now, she said, and this is really interesting too, that there was a lot of paranormal stuff going on in her house. After she said there were an actual global light came into their house. Really, yeah, she talked about that. She said, now you know from Stan Romanac that a lot of stuff like that happens to him and other people who believe they've been up that have experienced that sort of thing. Yeah, so I think it was no accident.

Cannethaniel was involved in all this, and that the residuals were that he had this this beam of light or this ball of light come into its house and they saw it go from room to room. So, I mean, you don't know what that stuff is. I mean, I imagine it's an intelligent ball of light of some kind. She never talks about aliens. Her

father never talked about aliens, but was interested in other people's stories. In fact, she said her father had like boxes of clickings of UFOs if almost the same thing as like you become obsessed with it, so you still are taking in all the information you can. And by the way, he's not the only one that used to be like that. You know. I knew Monseignor Balducci is about and I would go over his house. He had boxes boxes of UFO clippings, and he had all of the categorized and he had

everything from the paranormal. They were all shoved together, the paranormal and the UFO stuff. Very curious. So people that have any kind of experience like this, it changes their life forever, as you very well know. Yeah, I mean, I believe you've said this too, and I feel that way. I know Angela Joyner feels that way. Never would have imagined, you know, decades ago, before getting into UFOs, that we'd be dedicating

our lives to this subject. Just it seems so foreign a thought, you know, especially when I think of myself in college and I remember this one guy had all these UFO theories. I had no inkling to throw my life into this. It's just crazy that I've done that. Then it's like, how did this happen? Well, you know, I almost think we signed up somewhere, but I don't, Yea, we signed I don't know where we signed on the dotted line. I'm trying to think where that happened.

For me, it began with with Allen Heinech. So every time I see a picture of Alan, or every time I see Alan and close encounters come out with that pipe, or any time I think about Alan, it's just so emotional for me. It's just it's like, in a way, I

just am tearing out what he started, like you'na did. You're gonna love this article by Lee Spiegel then, because he did give us some pictures from the un initiative that include Heinech, and there's some pictures I don't think people have seen before, and there some really neat pictures of just them on the general Assembly floor, you know, talking about this stuff. So you're gonna love those pictures. I also always I don't want people to forget about Heineck

either, because he was so important in this whole thing. Yeah, he didn't live long enough to see any kind of resolution. I remember he used to say, I wish I knew what was going on. I wish that they would tell me, because he believed somebody knew. Yeah, it's funny because Don Schmid wrote a story for the magazine recently about Heinek, and the last part was about that emotional piece where Heinick didn't get to see this all

come to fruition and everybody gets emotional when they read that. People get really sad. Well, Yeah, because you know, he dedicated his life to He was very open and by the way Alei Hunter, he was perfect, perfect researcher. He never made value judgments. He never he never belittled anybody.

I never heard him criticize anybody. He was a great listener. He just sit there and look at you with that pipe and he wouldn't say anything for like hours and he was just listening and perfect, perfect way of dealing with things. Were all too often researchers, they make a judgment before they even get through the whole story. And just in case there are some listeners who aren't aware. You worked as his assistant for a period of time.

Yeah, from nineteen eighty to nineteen eighty six when he died, and then you know, in nineteen eighty six, I was so devastated. I don't want to do anything else in the ufology until I moved to Italy in ninety two. And then that's when They found me because they knew I had worked

with Allan and that's when it really started over in Europe. But you know, for people that want to see the ultimate movie about UFOs and the effect it has on entire families and the effect that has on everybody, even the government staging of the landing, they need to watch Close Encounters of the Third Kind and they'll get to see Heinech himself as in this little came Yeah,

he comes out there. Alan told me that originally Spielberg had the aliens taking the pipe away from him and playing with it, and that that was the little piece that they cut out of the They gave it to him as a gift and then I don't know, people knew that Spielberg was on Allen's Center for UFO Studies. He was on his board of directors. Yeah. Something I learned on this last interview with Lee Spiegel is that Jacques Vallet, Heinik

and all went out to meet Spielberg in California. He wanted to meet and talk to him about their un initiative when that was going on. Oh, there's a lot about Spielberg. Wait out now right. I did want to mention one more thing about the Arnold. It's really interesting that he thought that the craft was alive. Of course, Trevor James Constable was a prominent researcher who talked about that the Space Critters about lots of these UFOs being alive.

And I don't know if you know this, but that one image that Jason Clellan, you know who works for Open Minds, he got a really good picture of what he thought was a living entity. He at the UFO. He thought it was living the way it was moving around the sky like a jellyfish. Well, so does h So did David Adair didn't He didn't. He also say he was involved in some you know, hidden projects where he said that the skin was biological. Uh, you know, it was biological

skin on on the craft. It was not made with metals. But I don't know. Some kind of biology. And the idea that that the EB or the extra threscial biological entity and the craft or one means there has to be some symbiosis or some kind of connection, whether it be electromagnetic or whatever that does the craft needs to be allowed to respond to the pilot. So isn't that interesting? That's what that'd be a great new opening for scientists to look at. Mm hmm, and it's I mean, it would seem as

possible. We're finding life everywhere as a matter of time, Even mainstream scientists bill it to MA time do we find life on another planet? Why wouldn't we be able to find it floating around out there in space? I know there were some Star Trek I think episodes that had stuff like that, and it seems entirely possible. Well, it is, and I think that we you just don't understand. You know, we don't understand because we don't have

the science to explain it. But even the balls of light, the pulsating balls of light around the Fts seventy five and you know that NASA mission, Maybe that is just the high frequency of a metal craft. And when you go to a high frequency, if here there is a ball of light, it is really light, but it's a change of frequency. So we've got a whole new science he where we could be looking at if we took this

subject seriously right and hopefully that will happen. Well, I'm excited to see you in a few weeks at the Congress, Like you said, you're going to be there selling some books. Can I add that I sponsored a Clifford Stones's book which called Eyes Only, where he talks about his crash retrievals, including the live and dead entities that he encountered. And I will be at the table with Clifford, and I'll have my new book and Clifford's new book,

and Clifford will be there in person. Also, Oh great, So you'll both be there and signing your books and selling your books the whole time. Yes, we will. And Clifford's book is really an incredible book. Everybody should have that book in their library. It is the truth about what he lived. And he will be in person at the International UFL Congress, will be probably at the book table, both of us. Cool. And it looks like on your website and I'll tell people again it's p AO l

A H A R R I s dot com Paalaharris dot com. And it looks like you have some information on Clifford's book at your website. Also, yes, I do. And for me, these books be in everybody's library because they are the words of the original person. I mean, we're just the journalists, but these are the original people, and we you know, we've got to get them all while they're still all alive and able to speak, right, And then of course go to star Works USA dot com to

register for this interesting and fun and unique event coming up in May. Yeah. If they do early bird registration, it's only seventy five dollars. If they wait too long, it becomes ninety. So I really encourage early bird registration for this, which is pretty good for three days. Yeah, that's great. I mean that's a great price. Yeah. So, I mean it's something different. We're going to have a good time and you know,

hope to see you there. Yes, I hope to be there and with any luck, I mean they got some big skies out there in Texas. Maybe people have their own experience, yeah, I hope. So all right, great, thank you so much for being on the show again, Paulum, Thank you, Alejandro. Good luck. And if you are intrigued, you're thinking, who is this guy Clifford Stone? My goodness, this sounds fascinating. Well, we did interview Clifford on the radio show about a year

or so ago. I think it might have been when we're still UFO Think Tank. I know in fact it was, I think because I had him speak at the Roswell Conference a couple of years ago the universary of the Roswell crash. But anyway, look into the archives for Clifford Stone. You'll find him there. Listen to the show if you want to know more about him, and then if you're just like, WHOA, I need to meet these dudes, then of course you can always register for the conference at ufocongress dot

com. Thank you all for joining us once again. Don't forget to visit Open Minds dot tv and or no definitely end UFO Daily News dot com for the latest, look for my Huffington Post blogs, and look for us on Facebook and Twitter. It's been wonderful and we will see you next week. People,