Today on Open Mind UAP News, We've got Brett Tinley, the managing editor of space dot Com, to talk about his coverage of the UAP phenomena over the last few years. We'll talk about the latest UAP news, and we'll look at some cool enigma videos. What the heck is that? Stay tuned. Hello, and welcome to Open Mind JAP News. I am your host, Alojandro Rojas. I've been covering the UAP topic as a journalist and a digital creator for many, many years, and I'm happy to have my show
back. This is the third episode, and as you can see, I'm actually in Arizona in my new headquarters. Here a new and also old actually Open minds the majority of its life has been in Arizona, and we're back, so welcome to the new digs. I did mention that we would be responding to some viewer email, and I've gotten a lot of people really happy that we're back. In a lot of comments, but not a lot of questions, and there are a lot of opinions out there and a lot of
people stating things as fact that certainly aren't known as fact. You'll notice whenever I cover a topic, I'll put a link to the source in the description. So this is information I'm conveying. I've got facts. I've at least got some information to back up what I'm saying, and I expect that you do that too. So if you've got some statements to make, that's great. Love to hear what you have to say, but back it up with
facts. If you're countering something I'm saying, well, I've got some information in facts to back up what I'm saying. What about you, I'd love to see it if you do, because we're all looking for the truth and all searching for the truth here. Otherwise, for the positive comments, thank you so much. There were a couple of questions about Enigma, and I'll talk about that right now. One question was is it going to be on Android soon? That's a big question. It will be on Android soon,
so just hold out on that. Another question was about the website. Yeah, the website. You can't submit sightings there at Enigma Labs dot io if you don't have Apple and you can't use the app. You'll also be able to get a lot of information there, and very soon we're going to have a lot more information on the website regarding siting so keep an eye out for that, and of course i'll update you guys when that does happen. So a lot going on at Enigma, but a lot of really cool sightings.
And one thing that I've been doing lately is collecting more cool UFO sidings from the site and I'll share those on my social media, and of course we cover at least a couple of those sightings here on the show. Typically, what I'll do with here on the show is take one where I think I know what it is, and we'll go over that, and the other one will go over is one hour I'm not sure what the heck it is and
I need your help figuring it out. In fact, on today's show, we're going to be covering SpaceX videos because we're getting tons of those and they're spectacular, they're a lot of fun, but of course they're knowns, not unknowns, and we'll take a look at what the most common manifestation that people are seeing looks like, and i'll share that with you. In fact, I caught a video of my own here in Arizona of a launch in California, and I'll show you what that looks like too. It's spectacular, it
takes up like the entire night sky. It's incredible. So we live in an incredible age with these rockets going up on nearly a daily basis, and some of them like the Giant one. In fact, I've got a little model right here on my desk. You can't even really see it, but of the starships Basic Starship, that thing is humongas. It's the biggest rocket ever. And they've sent that up a couple of times now, crash every time, but they're getting closer and closer to it being a reality. Anyway,
we'll look at those videos in a sec. But let's get into UAP newt all right. So let's look at the news stories. And the first thing I want to cover is actually a little bit of news about the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies. Of course, I have been a board member of this organization for a long time. I'm not currently just because I've got a lot going on with launching my own show and some other projects that I'll be
talking to you about, but I still work with them. I'm going to be the EMPCY of their upcoming conference that's going to be May thirty first to June second. So I just wanted to let you all know. Of course, this is a scientific coalition for UAP studies, so we focus on research and science and that's mostly what we do looking at papers, so that's what I'm most interested in. So it should be a good time. It's going to be hybrid. So you can come join us in Hutsville, Alabama if
you're available. If not, you can register and just watch online, So make sure and get your tickets for that. Next this is kind of the big the first news piece. There hasn't been a lot of news on this, but the European Parliament had a meeting about UFOs. Francisco Guillero is he's from a member from Portugal. He posted the video of the conversation and he's been a main player and pushing this forward. And I've stopped the video so you can see what he looks like here, but it's two hours long.
Some of the people that he talked to regarding historical EU context meaning the European Union of course, was Eduardo Russo. I'm not familiar with him, but when talking about the US government, of course, he had on Ryan Graves. We know him very well. Ryan Graves is one of the fighter pilots who had sightings off of the East Coast as part of the USS Roosevelt while
he was in the Navy. And he's started his own organization, Americans for Safe Aerospace, where you know they're tackling this topic and as far as a air safety concern issue. UAP introduction by Andre Joel. I'm not familiar with him either, but Scientific Perspective Gone UAP from doctor Beatri's via Royale. I've interviewed her a couple times in relations to SCU, so you could go to the SCU website and actually see a couple of interviews with me and bea trees.
But I'll have her on again. She's actually written a medium article I thought was pretty interesting recently, which I posted in my social media. But we'll talk to her again. Also expert testimonies. They spoke to a pilot, Christian Vaughan Heist, and I've talked to him also. I interviewed him for Enigma Labs. You can find that on their Enigma Labs website, but
i'll post it here in the description. Also really interesting pilot. He's also a photographer, but he's got some really interesting pictures and video, or at least some pictures of UAP during his career, so he's just been advocating for this topic to be taken more seriously. So it sounds like it was really
interesting. I don't know what came from it, but it's great that you know, there's some discussion going on over there in the EU, and you know, just kind of talking about how this phenomena happens in Europe also and that we need to do something about it, essentially, was what the discussion was. Not sure what they will be doing about it. One of the longest running and probably most important official government agencies is in Europe, and that's
in France. They're called JAPON. They started in the seventies. They are under the CNES, which is kind of their version of NASA, and they've been collecking UAP reports for a very long time. I highly recommend you go
check out their website. They share all their data and findings. They've got at about three percent where they categorize their sightings I think in a very intelligent way where they have whether or not there's enough information for a determination, but there are some cases where they say we had enough information to make a determination, yet we still found this to be unidentified and those are only about two three percent of the cases that they have, but that's pretty significant if you've
got dozens of these sort of sightings, something to research for sure. So anyway, I will put a link to all these in the description so you can come and take a look at this video when you have a chance. So this article is a lot of fun. This is a good friend of mine, Brian Anslinger. He's actually a reporter in Portland. He was a podcast listener of the show, and I met him when I went and spoke at mcmnville a few years ago, and we've become pretty close. Just because
you'll notice I'm having a lot of journalists on the show. Journalists just kind of have a vibe, you know, we have a similar perspective and way that we approach things, and I think that's what you'll find really cool in these conversations. And it's also helpful that we check each other, you know, where are your facts on that? Where are your facts on this?
Journalists are really good at, you know, beating each other up and you know, trying to say, hey, where'd you get this information and debate whether or not that information is substantial or credible or not and that stuff can be very subjective, but you'll find that out when we talked to Brent a little later. But Brian is teaching a college course on UFOs, so this is going to start in a couple of months. I've talked to him this week. It's very exciting. We'll have him on the show and I'll give
you updates. But yeah, this is really cool. He's just kind of taking a grounded approach. He's calling this from film to real life l os UAP's government and the media, and he's looking at this kind of as a cultural kind of perspective. But he's someone who definitely is an advocate that it's a serious issue that needs to be taken seriously. The next piece of news is a new paper that came out from Rear Admiral Tim Gallad Debt, PhD.
He worked in the Navy. He's retired now, but he wrote a paper called Beneath the Surface, We may learn more about UAP by looking in the ocean. This was presented by the Soul Foundation, which is a new scientific organization focused on this topic, and it's made some news so the national interest, which I think is really interesting. A very highly respected publication covered this. They said, forget the skies, the US military is looking for
UFO below the waves. So really interesting paper. It's essentially just kind of calling out what many of us in this build already know and are interested in, is that you know, UAP are not just in the skies. There are also things being observed or data collected on potential objects that are unknown and highly technical under the water or going transmedian, so going in and out of
the water. And that's the point that Galadat is making in this. I've also interviewed Tim Galadet for SCU last year during the conference, so you can find that interview for free on YouTube. But he's a really interesting guy, really great guy. Interesting paper, definitely worth taking a look. Next, we've got the Guardian. He quit heading the Pentagon's UFO office. Now a report of his has shaken up eufology. Sean Kirkpatrick has faced threats for his
work. A new report concluding no evidence UAPs represent extraterrestrial tech has sent ufology into a tailspin. Yeah, so this is an article in the Guardian, and the big focus here is just Sean Kirkpatrick being just inundated, just being you know, by threats of violence, social media smear campaigns. He had to call the FBI after someone showed up at his home, and it really is, I've got to say, absolutely ridiculous. It's it's scary, uncalled
for, and it's it's QAnon like guys. I'm sorry, but when you have zero facts for your position and you're so upset and I'm passionate that you're attacking someone who is pointing that out, that is it's just a really scary and unfortunate thing. And it's really shocking to me that, you know, he's not the first guy. He's one of many that have officially looked at this topic and just not been that convinced, but are open minded. And
I think that's really important. In this field. We call people skeptics, and myself, I think I'm going to be. I'm headed towards being labeled a skeptic very quickly. And it's not because I don't think there's something to this field. Obviously I do. And that's what's difficult, because a lot of the people who are labeled skeptics are like me. They're very into this issue. They do think there's something there, but of course they're going to
debunk everything they can, because that's the scientific method. You debunk and try to disprove your own theory. And if you can't do that, then you know you have something. They haven't been able to do that. I haven't been able to do that. I also have not been able to prove this is extraterrestrial in nature or not completely something mundane in nature. We just don't know. We need more data. I mean, there are so many possibilities that we've got to gather data. And look, I am not the hugest
fan of Kirkpatrick. I think that there's definitely things they could have done. I think that this last paper could have been more focused on the actual history and the good cases. And I think that's what a lot of people are frustrated is that there's no talk about some of the incredible cases that have gone on and what they could be and the mystery that they pose. But this
is not who do I blame for that? The people who have been attacking Kirkpatrick with rumors, hearsay, and just in many cases completely false information that they believe substantiates this idea that aliens are here. It's really scary. And then beyond that, and this is what I think it's really weird and irresponsible in a way, is that these people believe, like this article points out that the government has been hurting people, that aliens are hurting people, that
this is a really dangerous situation. And if you believed that this is not a responsible way to approach getting that information out there, or even more importantly, protecting us from this potential threat should there even be one which we do not know, It's too bad this sort of happens. But let's move on. Next article is from Chronicle Live. So this article is UK UFO sidings mapped nearly two thousand unexplained objects spotted in our skies in the last four years.
So there's a group in the UK who compiled kind of like we're doing with an enigma, but just looking at UK sightings. And they took data from a bunch of different sources, a lot any group out there essentially collecting UFO reports on the UK, and they did a report on twenty twenty three.
Here you can see where they are. There's not a lot of analysis that I've seen yet, but there's a little bit of pointers here in the article, such as around forty orbs we're seen moving across in a cross formation in Manchester. There's orbs that we're seen in Suffolk, flying saucer illuminated by varying red glowing spheres, a dark, silent, squashed triangle, and then
fifteen bright lights supposedly pursued by two fighter jets and an Apache helicopter. Of course, these are the type of sightings that we get often that are largely, largely mostly misidentification, so it's hard to make much of that, but I think one of the things that was kind of interesting is they had a twenty percent drop in sightings from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three. Why is that? What I have found in my experience is that citing reports are
mostly driven by marketing or events. And what I mean by that is if there's a TV show that gets a lot of attention, anything that gets lots of you know, eyes on it, like news stories, Whenever something gets
out there about UFOs and is popular, we get more citing. So it's possible that twenty twenty two was just a bigger news year for UAP, and UAP take being taken seriously because twenty twenty three, you know, kind of ended and we'll look, we'll see this and twenty twenty four is starting in kind of an area of skepticism where it's like, what is with these people? I mean when they referring to UFO people, So that could be it. You know, the lusters kind of dropped from the topic and we're get
kind of into a more stable kind of level area. But who knows, It's hard to say for sure, take further examination. But yeah, you'll see a few articles on this out there and link to that report and I'll put that in the description as well. Next article, UFO visits near key nuclear installations in Tamil Nadu baffle experts. So this one, as usual with these kind of more sensational stories, is being picked up by tabloids all over
the place. This is a more serious media outlet that I'm spotting here. In fact, if it was just tabloids, I might not cover this at all, but it's getting out there quite a bit. But these are some guys who work in the area who say that they've gotten at least ten UFO sidings in the area. This is the only picture they're sharing, which is not impressive. Whatsoever could be anything could be a street lamp or plane. It could be a guy standing in a room with a light, the light
on its phone or something. You could be absolutely anything. So we don't have much information, so not much to go off of here, but it is sort of interesting because they are saying, hey, you know, they're saying they're seeing a lot of UFOs around nuclear facilities in the US, and it looks like we're seeing that here in India as well. The Daily Express has also covered it, and I think that's why I just brought this one up because it had a little bit of a bigger picture. Still not much
to see. Their Time magazine has gotten into the mix with UFOs, of course they often do. But their latest article is what UFO cultists can teach us about political paranoia Today. Now they're not calling anybody who believes in the UFOs or UAP cultists, but what they are drawing on is this idea of you know, a lot of people kind of deeply rooted beliefs. So, for example, psychologists Leon Vestinger wrote, and this is the intro, and I think this is kind of interesting this quote, A man with a con
conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your source, appeal to logic, and he fails to see your point. And really they're getting into this idea of cognitive dissonance where people hold very strong beliefs, but there's also evidence that comes out that shows that those beliefs are wrong. And what people will also often do is rationalize to connect those uh and you know they're absolutely
correct. Where this is a big deal in this field. And Garrett Graft, who I hope to have on the show soon also who wrote a book on historical UAP information, also pointed this out, kind of the connections between Q and ON and the UFO field, and that seems harsh, but I made that observation earlier, and we just do see a lot of people. So, for instance, here's something I used to do. I've always been curious about people who claim to have contact with you know, these creatures beings,
and there's a lot of people who make these claims. The problem I have found is these stories are absolutely inconsistent. The aliens are good, the aliens are bad. The aliens are from Zeta Reticula, the other aliens are from Andromeda. People saying the grays are from here, not there, the grays are bad, they're good. So there isn't a lot of agreement. So I would ask people when they would come out of talks. I'd be
like, did you listen to all the talks at this conference today? And they would say yeah, And I was like, what did you think of, you know, the talks this morning? If there's been some people who make these sort of claims, and they would say, well, I like them both, And I would ask, well, they're saying two different things. They both can't be telling the truth. And a lot of people would try to explain to me how both realities that are completely opposite could be true.
And what's funny is that typically, you know, in these talks, even these people who are having these experiences, especially if they're really pushing it as far as books and everything, they'll be like, you know, these people are wrong. Those people are telling you the opposite are absolutely wrong. They're charlatans and liars. But then you know, you talk to the people who are fans of both, which are a lot of people, and they
try to explain how both are real. That's cognitive dissonance, and there's a lot of that and why does that happen? And how is it? How do we deal with it? So that's what this article is. There's another similar one. I'm gonna skip this next one, Real Quier with the Boston Globe that just came out. A new religion has Americans looking to the stars. But this one is similar, but it's talking about religion. So religion is similar in that it's a world belief, a worldview based on belief.
I should say, you don't have evidence of your religious Most people don't feel like they have evidence of their religious beliefs. But it's a faith based belief system, but it doesn't always jive with reality and what we believe we know from the historical record. Furthermore, religion, and I've got a lecture where I talk about religion because of this reason that the similarities. Religion is typically a supernatural answer to a question that you don't have answers to. Why are
we here? Why is the planet here? Why are we smart? Another thing? Other animals aren't smart. These sort of you know, very fundamental important questions. You know, belief systems arise in which a supernatural forces it's
given the reason why this happened, and that's what's happening with UFOs. Carl Jung has pointed this out, others have pointed this out, and that's why I think it's so interesting, because religions aren't, you know, butting up, and that there are a lot of people who are not just treating this like a religion, but like this article points out, they're also in the
trappings of religion. So things like meditation and mantras and godlike entities, these are all getting weaved into these mythos of aliens and visiting us in interactions and conspiracy theories, and so it creates this whole big religious like type of thing. And that's what this article is about, which I think is really interesting, and we're reading a couple more. I think this is really interesting.
Cancel on Foreign Relations did a podcast recently on UFOs. To be honest, I have not listened to this yet, but it's very interesting that they've done this, so that's why I've made note. And then finally, you know, there are still some politicians out there talking about UAPs. Mostly it's this UAP Caucus group like we reviewed last week, that are members of the House,
mostly Republicans. One of them. Eric Burlson, just got this article in one of the local papers where he is a representative, where they talked about how he is looking into answers on this topic. But of course it is interesting. This guy, I think I misspoke a little bit, said that he felt UAP are advanced technology. That's what he said. But I believe he says he thinks it's our advanced technology, not foreign. But that's
what he said. He thought the secret was. But if that's the case, he should probably advocate that some of that stuffs they classified, especially if it's our secret technology. But to be honest, I don't feel like his position's clear yet, but hopefully it would become more clear in the future. Finally, Brett Tingley Space dot com. So let's talk to Brett. But
let me tell you a little bit about him. I wanted to get in his background here because he's been covering UFOs for a while, including working with the Deep, but he's also written in some other places, so I just wanted to kind of cover his background, and this I felt was a great one from space dot Com. Brett is curious about emerging aerospace technologies n UAP
alternative launch concepts, military space developments, and uncrewed aircraft systems. Brett's work has appeared on Scientific American, The War Zone that covers UAP, quite a bit, Popular Science, The History Channel, Science Discovery, and more. Brett has English degrees from Clemson University and the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. And his free time, Brett enjoys skywatching throughout the dark skies of the
Appalachian Mountains. It sounds like he's UFO hunting out there. Let's talk to Brett about his UAP escapades, all right, I am very happy to introduce our guest, Brett Tingley. He is a managing editor at space dot Com. Welcome Brett. Hey, thanks for having me. Been a big fan of your work for many years. Thank you, dittoh, and I am so excited to talk to you because you're one of those kind of mainstream, legitimate, you know, journalists out there who dip their toes in the UFO
topic. And how did that come about? I believe at first you started writing with the war Zone. Even before that, I wrote for the blog for the Mysterious Huniverse podcast oh alongside Mikah Hanks, whom I believe you know, and mjbnias back in kind of the mid twenty teens, and so that, you know, I kind of followed the weird news beat, you know,
some people would say over there. And so that was right about the time that To the Stars Academy burst onto the scene and that infamous twenty seventeen article in the New York Times, and so that's when this whole big wave of you know, new ufone news started. But you know, I've been reading about the topic, following the topic since I was a kid. I came up during the time of the X Files, awesome pop culture movies like
Men in Black Independence Days. So it's kind of been a lifelong passion for me, you know, and I have the great fortune to have had the chance to write about it professionally. And when you started first writing about the topic, what were topics that you were most interested in and kind of the approach you wanted to take. Yeah, you know, I take more nuts and bolt approach to the UFO topic. It's just what I've been drawn to.
It's not necessarily that I discount any other hypotheses, because you know, at this point they are still all hypotheses. But kind of when twenty seventeen to the Stars Academy, all these three big Navy videos came out. It really got me wondering about, like, you know, could these represent terrestrial technologies? Could we be talking about something that perhaps the United States is operating,
perhaps one of its adversaries is operating. And so that's you know, if you look at a lot of my portfolio writing about the topic, it's been kind of that, like examining UFO adjacent military hardware or you know, UFO adjacent aerospace programs or space programs, and it's, you know, not because I discounted other hypotheses, but that's just kind of what I've chosen to
focus on and what I'm interested in. So when you know, this New York Times article came out twenty seventeen, and there was this new found attention on this topic, which was exciting for me. Of course writing about this topic, I'm sure exciting for you that excitement. Did you remain excited? What is your current thoughts about the topic and the direction it's gone. Not as excited as I was around I think my excitement peaked probably between twenty nineteen
and twenty twenty one. During those two years I worked almost continuously on the salvatorre payist patent story, you know, filing multiple document requests and got to do a lot of great, you know, big features over there at the
war zone. And so it was during that time I think it kind of peaked, and then I don't know, over the past couple of years, my interest is wane because, like a lot of people who you know, were thrust into this new wave of excitement starting around twenty seventeen, I've kind of, I don't want to say, gotten tired or bored, but you
know, we've been hearing the same things. Oh, proof is coming, disclosures coming, just keep waiting, just keep waiting, and it's like, you know, after some point you gotta wonder, is anything really coming or is this you know, why are we still excited about something we've been saying is just on the verge of coming for seven years now and still hasn't come. So it's still something I follow every day. I mean, I'm on you know, I lurk on UFO Twitter every day, the UFO subreddits on
Reddit. I mean, it's still I have conversations with you know, colleagues of years in mind. It's still something I'm invested in every single day, but not like I was back when I was reporting for the war Zone, and it really felt like we were on the cusp of something big breaking, of us discovering something really big about what the government knows or doesn't know about UAP. But I don't know, I got to say, you know, as more time goes on, I don't know if anything is coming anymore.
Yeah, I mean, it seems like the arc of the conversation began with Okay, this is a legitimate issue. We had these Navy pilots coming out, Navy events backing them, until people coming out and saying, you know, there's something to all of this, and everybody seemed to kind of get
behind that. You were looking at, you know, potential patents that were filed by the Navy, like you said, that were kind of weird, next gen kind of technology that we didn't see actually get developed, and there's questions about whether it can be and maybe we'll talk about that more in a
second. But then, as you said, kind of time went on and we're almost to a place now where you look at UFO Twitter and there's a lot of depression there, people saying, oh, it's never coming out, and that's probably because you know, they were expecting and being told that there
was all these major investigations going on in the background. But then we have Arrow and the d D you know, coming forward and doctor Kirkpatrick being very vocal about this, the head of Arrow, the UAP program there at the Pentagon, you know, saying there's not much to it, and then finally releasing this historical report where it seems like and and this is what he's been alluding to, that he was the one investigating these claims of crash UFOs and
you know that David Gresh came forward on and they didn't find anything to it. Are you surprised by that report? There's a lot of reaction, of course from the UFO field that it's a cover up in all of this. Do you believe that or what were your feelings about the report? I was not surprised one bit. In fact, it was exactly what I expected to
read. I have been skeptical from the beginning that the government, skeptical about the idea that the government will ever show its hand when it comes to UFO's up. If you look at the history of the government's involvement, this has been their message for decades now right that oh, we looked at it, we don't have any evidence. You know, we've looked into it. There's no evidence that extraterrestrials have visited. So it was pretty much exactly what I
expected. Now, I was surprised by some of the inaccuracies that people have pointed out. You know, you would expect an office in the Office of Director of National Intelligence to really be able to do their due diligence with some of these historical incidents, So that that part did surprise me. But as far as the broad conclusions, it was exactly what I expected, because, like I said, I have no confidence that if we ever learned about the
nature of UFOs and UAP, it's going to come from the government. I don't think it's going to come from the US military or the Pentagon, because they don't want to show their hand. And you know, as countless of people have pointed out, it comes down to collection methods. They don't want to reveal the capabilities, the locations, and the analyzes of their intelligence collecting methods, and they don't want to reveal, you know, what possible shortcomings
those collection methods might have. As the Chinese spy balloon incident and the related incidents that came after that show. You know, there are huge gaps in the military's awareness of the airspace domain over the United States and North America, and so, you know, I don't think they want to show how much or how little they know, and I don't think they ever will will. I think you make a really good point, and this was a point actually I was making on the last show, is that you know Bray I think
he was assistant deputy director of Naval Intelligence. When you talk to Congress during those hearings, he essentially said what you said, that we would have to vet it. We'd have to make sure that it's not foreign intelligence, because
that's what we'd be looking at it to be at first. Once we found out it's not foreign intelligence or something that's a national security issue and it doesn't reveal any of our capabilities or what we used or the methodologies or how or why we were even looking at these places, then we'd be more than happy to reveal that information. But of course that's a huge list, and having something be able to get from a to being disclosed seems to be almost a
monumental, if not impossible task. How do you, you know, conclude for certain something you don't even know what it is is not enemy technology exactly. Yeah, yeah, so yeah. But at the same time, do you the nature of the secrets? I think that, you know, what we just talked about is the nature of a lot of the secrets. But are do they know more? Do you think they really have more video and
information? Do you think there actually could be you know, retrieved objects or material to the first part of that question, I do not doubt and am one hundred percent confident that there are some incredible videos out there. You know, I've heard from people behind the scenes that UAP Task Force and related offices
they have some incredible footage that they cannot explain, right. I mean, the capabilities of a lot of the space based sensors right now and cameras pointed down at Earth and even pointed farther out in space would blow people's minds if they could see them. You know, I've never seen them, but this is what we're hearing from the Department of Defense. So I do not doubt for a second that there is photographic or videographic evidence out there that would absolutely
knock people's socks off. But as we talked about previously, they're not going to reveal those because we don't want to reveal what the full capabilities of some of these sensor platforms and camera platforms are. The second part of your question, as crash retrievals, well, we know there is a thriving and very active foreign material crash retrieval program, you know, dating back decades and recovering
Soviet technology, Chinese technology from all over the world. That includes things like you know, fighter planes, helicopters, or satellite people pieces of space flight technologies that have fallen down to Earth. Now, whether any of those might represent non human intelligence or extraterrestrials, anybody's guess is as good as mine.
I will say one thing though, the more I learned about space, the universe, the Solar System as a result of working for space dot Com, the incredible distances between Earth and the next star system and the next planet. If anything visited here from outer space, you know, an extraterrestrial presence that technology, we would not even be able to know what we're looking at. Right. If anything can travel those distances to reach Earth, you know,
I don't know that they could be reverse engineered. I don't know that we could figure out what we're looking at, but you know, that's all incredibly hypothetical. So I don't doubt for a second that we've recovered, you know, uh, material from crashes that are strange, but whether those represent any kind of non human intelligence, I have no idea what love for that to
be true. And but you know, I don't have access to classified intel, so I your guess as good as mine, right, And you know, what you're describing I think is probably very similar to my perspective, probably similar to the perspective perspective of the general public. But you know, there are people, you know, when we talked about looking at social media on the UFOs that are livid and they're like, you know, this is an example of criminal activity of blatant lies. Yeah, but I don't think we
see any of that. I mean, I don't see that we see any clear, strong evidence that there are lies we have, as you mentioned earlier, rumors and mythology and coming from a section and a group of people like Kirkpatrick has complained about who will have been spread these kind of things and beliefs for very, very very decades, But they haven't had any results. They haven't demonstrated their beliefs to be true over all of this time, and this
last chance they have with Grustion seem to panhand er. It hasn't thus far either. So I don't see a reason to be necessarily lived because as a somebody who's written about this topic for decades myself, I don't have that evidence either, and I would. I've been looking for it and I'd love to
have it. Yeah, I would too. And it's kind of uncanny how a lot of the news stories that are coming out right now are so similar to the old stories that we've heard for a long time, right and you know, the the vitriol, the anger, the uh, the zelotry almost of these people on social media is very off putting. You know, I've
been the target of some of it. I've had people email the organization I work for, telling them they need to fire me because you know, I said something skeptical on Twitter before I'll just say this, you know, they're without naming any names, there are some journalists out there making very bold claims that you know, they know the locations of crash hardware. They you know, they have proof of in some form of these crashes and crash achievals like
we've talked about. But working in media, working in journalism, I can tell you if I was sitting on anything that was concrete proof of this stuff, why would I It boggles my mind to think that I wouldn't release it. I would be an overnight global sensation. I would never have to work again after writing my next memoir or even ghostwriting my next memoir? Why would you sit on it? And I know a lot of the argument is, oh, well, I don't want to burn my sources. This we're talking
about the greatest secrets and the greatest discovery in human history. Arguably, is that not worth burning a source and making yourself millions of dollars? So I I don't know, I'm you know, I know that people have gotten you know, these social media groups incredibly riled up making these bold claims. But again, like, why would you sit on something like that if it's true?
And I've been waiting to say that, I've been waiting for a podcast or something like that to say this, right, And you know, but like I don't think any journalists, anybody who wants to make a name for themselves, you know, publishing scoops would sit on the greatest scoop in the history of humankind. Now, yeah, and you've got great points. And you know, when it comes to these journalists there, they act very much
more like activists. And if you are an activist who has that sort of passion for this topic, you would think that you would be willing to burn the world down to get your truth out, like most activists are when on their topic. So I hear the claim made, the argument made that, oh, people have been murdered keeping this secret, right, and then we also hear, oh, well, I don't want to disclose the looks of
these things because it would puck people in danger. But what it also take people out of danger if people have been killed to keep the secret a secret this long, you know, it's yeah, I don't know, it's funny
to me. I think those are all really great points. And not only that, you know, a lot of the people making these claims are either a people who have made the claims for decades and shown no evidence, or they're newer and they still don't have any evidence for what they're talking about, whereas those of us who have been doing it for a very long time just don't see it. You know, we haven't seen that, or like you said, you know, we've all been trying to get this evidence out and
get to that point. Not necessarily for money, although the money would be great, but yeah, for the opportunity to do what you've put your life goals towards that reveal that there is something really to this and beyond that. I think that you're pointing out a hypocrisy that I've been pointing out lately and some others have. But I think that and I don't mean this to be me but to hopefully be constructive in my criticism. But to your point,
the UFO site has a lot of secrets themselves. Even the New York Times article itself was disinformation from twenty seventeen. It was fun to make the UFO topic more credible, let alone. You know, all these other groups, like these intelligence groups who say they have all this information and they have these videos, but they're not going to share them. It's pretty hypocritical. Why
not share them if you have them? You know, there is an airspace safety issue, there is a national security issue that and these are pressing issues related to the UA to be p topic. And I see those as separate from this current push that you know, the big D disclosure, you know, infotainment complex as I like to call it, right, I fully am I confident in that, you know, people have been seeing range things, unexplained things, anomalous things in the sky for centuries, maybe thousands of years.
You know, we look back through history, you see it. What I am skeptical of is not that. When I am skeptical of is the fact that people think they know secrets and are going to compel the government to release those secrets, because again, you know, if you have them, why not put them out? Why not put a stop to the secrecy? You know? Well, and to your point, there's also another factor, and it's probably a big factor. And I'd love to hear your ideas on
this or maybe this is where we should be. Ideally, in an ideal world, this is where we would be, is that we would be like, Okay, great, the Government's now on top of this, The Pentagon's got a program, they're on top of it. At the very least, they're going to make sure that we're safe and that there's no national security issue related to this. Hopefully. I think, like Chris Mellen's approach was,
you know, former decute Deputy Director of he was intelligence. I forget the full title title, but you know, his point was kind of we had this blind and you weren't making this point earlier because we were not looking at UFOs, We were not looking at a lot of stuff. And his point was, and we're not going to be seeing some of this newer drone technology
and other things. And he was proven right really when we changed are what we were looking at with our radar systems and you know, these Chinese balloons and everything showed up that created all this ruckus. So there, we did have a blind spot that's now resolved. I think there's probably a big sentiment out there, at least I feel among my colleagues and colleagues that you know, work with NASA and the government more where they're like, cool, these
guys got it covered. I'm cool with that. Yeah, I mean it's I think there's a big distinction between the people who actually work in the field and the social media activists, you know, and you know it's yeah, I'll leave it at that, gotcha. So moving on then to NASA, So you've got the PA they're going to be see grid By nature. I agree with you one thousand percent. Maybe it's wise for them, and I'm sure they're arguing that we should be cautious rather, you know, more than
anything can be safe. So you could see why they would be hesitant to release information even if you know they legitimately had something. But now we've got NASA NASA kind of which and I would love your your kind of observations. It was an interesting situation because you have Bill Nelson obviously very enthusiastic about the topic. Yeah, maybe a couple of the scientists in the panel, people like Mike Gold who has actually worked with Big Low and has had some history
working in this topic. But some of the a lot of the other panelists just like what you know, almost like you're in the headlights look in their eyes when you see them on the on television or addressing this topic, they're
just like, Okay, I don't know anything about this. But there was at least they did say, you know, this is a national security concerning, this is an air safety concern at least, and it is a topic we need to pay attention to. You Aero needs to continue and do science, and we would NASHA should be involved with assisting somehow, but they were very vague on that. Did you see NASA moving forward and do you think
that is the best place for this kind of work. I think Kirkpatrick made that kind of comment quite a bit, that he wanted to pass the buck the NASA sort of well, you know, to me, what I got from that the first public briefing, in the first public report from NASA's UAP group was that, you know, they want to contribute, they want to find ways to collect data to move this topic forward. I mean, obviously,
you know, NASA works of the American public. Technically, they're a publicly funded organization, and clearly there's a lot of public interest in this right now. So I think we've seen over the last few years more people in academia, more people in you know, scientific and engineering and aerospace fields, starting to try to find ways they can contribute to, you know, studying
UAP, studying UFO. So I think MASSA is, I don't want to say, playing catch up, but they're kind of following along with that trend of how can we contribute to this topic. And you know, they operate some of the most sophisticated space based sensors and satellites out there, and so they have so many telescopes pointed up into the sky and you know, operating out in Earth orbit. So I think they do have some They do have a valuable role to play, you know, whether they can produce any of
that data. We'll see whether any of it will see the light of public day. And you know, that's another big question, even though it is publicly funded. So I don't know. I get the sense that they want to contribute and they're still figuring out how to do it. So another kind of sticky topic. But of of course it's always fun to get into the
most controversial stuff, especially when someone like you has some insight. And I think you've written about this lately, is that when it comes to the science of this topic, kind of the people that have taken the lead, who are legitimate, respected scientists out there, have been highly criticized for their their
processes. So being specific Avy Low So when he was looking for this latest meteorite he believes was possibly inner cellar, possibly you taque technology, not only are they questioning the whether or not what he received retrieved was anomalous, even though there are already questions about the manner in which that those samples were retrieved.
Now they're saying that they're likely was not even a meteorite to begin with that the signals that they received indicating that were probably from a truck, and then moving on from there, just in this latest report, you know, one of the things that Jeff la and doctor Gary Nolan, Stanford professor in the DNA area, also very well respected, is that their science was a little off, and to be honest, at the Scientific Coalition of UAP studies,
our analysis did not really show some of the materials they believe to be anomalous to be anomalous. And then in the slatest historical report that erraput out, they also confirmed we did not find that material to be anomalous. But there's a lot of pushback from both of these camps that these conventional scientists are wrong and these things are anomalous, and it's kind of a very weird situation.
What you make of all of that, man woof Well, as someone who reports on this, I try and stay objective, try not to have an opinion on it. It is startling to me how many papers have been published, both peer reviewed and still going through the process that are calling into question, you know, doctor Loeb's expedition and his analysis of these ferals. So I don't know. I'm trying to keep an open mind about it. And doctor Lobe is obviously a very you know, well respected scientist. They're
at Harvard, so we'll see. I've seen a lot of criticism, a lot or a lot of analysis, people saying a lot of commentary, people saying, you know, scientists should stay in their field and kind of stay in their lanes and stuff. But when it comes to you know, studying anomaly, studying UFOs, like what field can you really approach it from? You know, it's such a combination of so many different disciplines in so many fields. So I don't know. I don't know what to make of that.
I try not to have an opinion, try and stay objective, but I am a little concerned about how many scientists have concerned for doctor Lobe and you know, possibly his reputation moving forward. How many planetary scientists, how many seismologists, how many material scientists are coming out and saying, well, wait a minute, you know, let's back up here and really examine these claims. As for doctor Nolan, you know, I haven't followed a lot
of his work, to be honest. But you know, I think with anybody, anybody out there making big claims about the research, put your data out there, let third parties analyze it. And you know that's the best way. That's how science is done, right. You publish your data. You let other people take them and run their own experience and see if they can replicate your conclusions, see if they can replicate your data right exactly.
And I hope that is more of what happens. And of course that's my big thing, that's what I would like to help encourage and make space for. But do you see that being possible? And you know, we're in this state where you know, the UFO fil that is feeling kind of slighted that, you know, they thought they were going to have their big moment
to show Roswell was real and everything and that didn't happen. People feeling disappointed and kind of drifting off to your point, you know, other the conversations kind of looking like they did many years ago, kind of coming back around. But we do have this interest that I think from mainstream scientists, and I believe there's something to capitalize on. Do you how do we move forward
from here? I guess this is my question. I think ultimately progress has been made because the topic has moved from the fringes more into the mainstream. We are seeing more scientists, you know, very credential, respected scientists approaching the topic credibly, and you know that everybody has to talk about the stigma, right we need to remove the stigma, and I think that is happening.
We have people like you know, Ryan Graves coming out and saying, as a fighter pilot, I have seen strange things in the sky, and he started his Aerospace Safety Foundation. You know, NASA has its own UAP
group. So I think progress has been made and I think it's it's no longer this you know, topic to ridicule and laugh at, even though some people still do obviously, But I think ultimately the past seven years have been very good in terms of bringing UFOs into the mainstream and making them a credible subject of study. Now I think we're still figuring out ways to do that, you know, because again, it is one of the most complex topics
in the world. You can't just approach it from anyone scientific discipline, and it incorporates so many and even the social sciences, right, So moving forward, I would like to see you know, more data being published publicly, like we just talked about. I would like to see groups like NASA and a lot of the other groups we talked about continuing to find ways they can contribute to it. You know, I hope some of the vitriol on social
media can be toned down because you know it. I think the more voices we have contributing to this topic, and the larger diversity voices we have contributing to the topic, will also help move it forward. You know, if it's only to die hard believers out there, well then that's going to take
it straight back into the kind of taboo stigma area it has been. But if we have you know, a wide range of voices, more skeptical voices on one side, more you know, believer voices on one side, then somewhere in the middle, hopefully the truth can be found and progress can be made. I agree. I think that's a great perspective, and it's great to see that you have such a positive outlook on moving forward, which is exciting to see. So I'm sure you're going to keep covering this topic absolutely.
You know, it's been a lifelong passion, like I said at the beginning of the show, and you know, we're hopefully going to see more error reports pretty soon. You know, the SCU is having their conference in a couple of months here. That should be pretty exciting. So, you know, I think there are there are some very worthwhile developments happening in here that we can cover, So, you know, I hope so. And you know, I think it sounded a little dismissive and skeptical earlier about some
of the claims being made. I would love for them to be true. I would love nothing more for you know, a crashed flying saucer to be out in the American desert somewhere. You know, let's go find it, you know, show us where it is. You know. One last question related to that though, which is one of the funny things about this conversation about extraterrestrials. So it's to your point that the reality quote unquote that is being told is out there, is that people are being harmed by humans to
heap the secrets and by aliens who are abducting people. That is really scary stuff. And of course if that were to be true, you would want to be very careful with that information. It seems a bit reckless for some, especially some of these politicians, to be going out and saying, hey, there's something to this, when what they're saying there's something too is that aliens are coming and taking you at night and there's nothing you can do about
it. Yeah, yeah, it's it's all. It's kind of hypocrite to me. On some hand. You have people saying people have been murdered, you know, over this, and then but they're out there telling everybody that people have been murdered and that they know the secrets people have been murdered for all right. I don't know that's a good point. And luckily I've never been and you know, you and I are shuttling out information to the masses.
We have larger audiences than most, and we're taking this very seriously and nobody's telling me what to print. And I'm sure the same goes for you. But I have never been threatened by anyone, except for maybe trolls on UFO Twitter. Have you ever been threatened to hey stay away from this story. No? Never, And you know, like when I was pursuing the Salvator polist patents, I mean I was knocking on some pretty high level doors within the US Navy there, and you know, filing Foy after Foya after
Foya every single day. And no, I haven't been. I've definitely had some weird packages come to my house and some weird phone calls, but I have never been threatened. In fact, the most threatening thing that's happened to me, I'll tell you off camera. It was with a very high profile personality, but it wasn't a direct threat. Now, great, all right, well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been really enlightening. We'll have to do this again. Absolutely definitely. Thank you
so much to Brett for being on the show. I am a big fan of space dot com and I'm a big fan of Brett and his work, so it's great to have him on. But now it's time for the Enigma Sighting of the Week. We have partnered with Enigma Labs to bring you interesting UAP sidings weekly that they collect via their app and website. If you have a report to submit, you can download the app at the Apple App Store or submit it via the website at Enigma labs dot io. In the interest
of disclosure, I am a paid consultant for Enigma. But that's how I stay up to date on all of the videos that are coming in and the best one. So let's take a look, all right. So what I'd like to do is look at two sightings these days, and one of those is one that I can explain, and the other is one that I can't explain, and I need your help explaining it or looking into maybe it's something
more mysterious. And this week I chose SpaceX. We're getting a lot of super cool SpaceX pictures and videos in and they're making a lot of people freak out because they don't know what it is. So i'll cover that first. In fact, let's look at this one here. This is one of the best examples I think of a space X rocket and it shows what a lot of people are seeing. But this one captures it just perfectly. So this was at Odesso Airport in Odessa, Texas. This one was on March fourth,
twenty twenty four. I actually saw one about a week ago. Share the video with you, and I'm in Arizona. And this one was launched in California. This one might have been launched in California, but they do launch it from Texas and Florida. Those are the three areas where they launch the most, so this one is probably a Texas one. But let's take a look here. So it looks like a bright object, and this is what's exciting. You see this plume. Back it up. Apologize ahead of
time if there's cut words there often is in UFO sightings. But look, it's like a bright object and then this bloom, the circular plume comes shooting out of it, almost like it's some kind of super shield or some kind of you know, technical device. Some UFO is right there. Looks still weird like a side by show, but that is space ACT. So essentially
what's happening here is it's probably a stage change. So in other words, there's a separation going on between and it even looks like it the two objects. So it's, uh, well, let me give me a rocket over here. Let me get my Space X model here. So as it's flying, you know it's going and then at one point it separates and there's an explosion there that separates those objects, and that's what you're seeing as a result of those explosions. So why do we see space X why do they look
so incredible compared to other rockets, and it's because of the fuel. They they use some kind of fuel that has from what I understand, and ash in it, and it's more visible than when it gets admitted like this, and so that's why it creates these spectacular effects like what we're seeing. So that's a really cool one, really weird. So let's take a look at
mine. So if we took a lik at my video here, Remember this is Arizona, and this rocket that we're looking at actually launched in California over the ocean, and I can see it this well in Phoenix, but I mean, nobody's going to miss this in this guy. In fact, this is the third time I've seen this. The first couple of times I was on my way to Safeway and I got there and people are floored and they're taking videos and I had to burst their bubble and say, sorry, guys,
this is SpaceX. But yeah, it's just extremely visible and incredible to see. But you can see here, you can the entire trail of the rocket. The exhaust that's being put out just spreads further and further apart, making this huge, kind of weird shape. And so it just looked spectacular and really weird up there, but that's what we're seeing. These are space x. They're not aliens or anything really that extraordinary. But now next time
you see it, you won't mistake it for something mysterious. All right, But now let's look at the more mysterious sighting whish play here. This is in Campina Sal Paolo, Brazil. This one was March fourteenth to twenty twenty four. I think they're speaking Portuguese, so we might not be able to understand them, but it's a fireball. And look at how odd this is. So it's like a light in the sky with this trail of blinky lights. It looks like these blinky lights are falling to the ground, but they're
probably not. So this is probably something that is coming into the atmosphere and breaking up, and those trails are just like things that are also breaking up into the atmosphere and lighting up. So it could be an object and it's got this huge tail, and the tail, you know, is debris, and then these little flashes could be the debris that are larger objects that are big enough that they create a enough of a burn when they're coming into the
atmosphere. That you can see them. That's my only guess. I'm not sure, but whoa is that weird? I haven't seen anything like it, and there's at least a couple of videos, so look at this. This is the second video. I mean, unless it's some kind of fireworks, maybe that is so strange. I'm guessing because it's typically the case. There's a simple explanation and I just don't know what it is. So I'm really excited to get some responses and to see what you guys think that this might
be. But I really this one's definitely a head scratcher for me. So I don't know what this is. This one is Enigma two nine zero one four five. I will put the links to both enigmas below. Please share widely to one on the first one to show them, hey, this is actually SpaceX and when this is what they look like, and on this one to say, hey, what the heck do you think this is? So
we can figure this out? Really really weird one pretty pretty interesting, but as usual, And when it comes to Enigma Labs, remember this is Enigma Labs dot io. Here is the website. There is a blog where you could get a lot of information the libraries, you know, one of my favorite areas because you've got a lot of historical information there. But the FAQs, all of the controversial questions or any of the questions that are causing controversy
with Enigma, they're all answered right here in the faq. There's also a discourse that Enigma has that you can join and the whole companies. In the discourse, you can talk to anybody, you can suggest changes, you can ask questions, you can converse with with you know, the staff there, so they're very open. A lot of these conspiracy theories, and of course everybody's everybody has conspiracy theories about everybody, but they're just really not found it.
This idea that they're hiding information even though they have this FAQ where they're answering all the questions from people just shows those type of trolley people that like to create all this negative noise about you know, people doing serious research in this field. It's usually based on false information, and that is certainly the case when it comes to Enigma as well. What Enigma is it's a bunch of cool dude, It's a bunch of tech people creating a really cool app.
You could see it there, you know, on the screen in that little example, and it's a lot of fun. So and we wouldn't be getting some of these cool videos that I've been sharing without this really cool app. So check it out. So that is our show for the week.
Thank you so much for joining us. Be sure to subscribe if you haven't, Please share this far and wide if you have friends that are into this topic and you want to share kind of a more grounded take that can get more of your conservative kind of conservative on this topic friends to take a look and maybe take things seriously. And you know, I am very open to
the idea of skeptics in this field and getting involved. We need skeptics because without the skepticism, like I reviewed earlier, we don't get to the answers. And the skepticism is a big part of science, and we will get
the answers. And I guess that's going to be my final remark here is that, you know, I hope people keep some faith and hope there has been a lot of people bummed out saying, you know, these latest reports they just poo poo the whole topic, and now everything's just going to go back the way it was, the way it was was no one was covering anything. The way it is is as you have seen, we've got tons of mainstream news sources, mainstream scientists talking and writing and discussing this topic.
And what we need to do is make sure that continues. Engage those people doing interviews like with a podcast here, or getting them to write articles, or getting them to participate in projects of data gathering or other type of research, and develop and foster this cooperative community of people looking for answers. And that's what we're going to do, and that's what we'll be doing moving forward in the future, and the results are going to be positive and good.
To stick with me. We're going to have a fun time, We're going to have an interesting time, and the next few years are going to be certainly revelatory, I believe. Thank you for listening or watching. Thank you so much for joining today. Hope you have a couple of great weeks and we'll talk to you soon.