Michael Horn, Billy Meier debate

Love Hope Radio. Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Hello and welcome to open Minds Radio, your UFO news authority. This is Alejandro and we have another great show today. In fact, we've got Michael hornon because of course we talked about Billy Meyer a couple of weeks ago, and even since then, I've

looked into some more and there's some fishy stuff there people. I'm sorry, but it's kind of weird, and so we wanted to bring Michael, and Michael wanted to come on and talk about that. In fact, he sent us some pictures and stuff. So if you're not watching on the U stream right now and you're listening to the podcast, you want to go check out the YouTube video that we'll post in a couple of days, or go to

our youth stream and check that out. Just look for open Minds and you'll see for yourself some of these pictures that we're going to be referring through throughout the show that Michael gave us and honestly. Unfortunately you'll hear how we feel. But I feel the pictures that he sent us kind of made the case against the Billy Myers stuff because it was really weird stuff. But we'll be talking about that. However, it's a long talk, that discussion that Michael

and I had, and so we're gonna go straight to the news. Jason McClellan, tell us what's going on. Greetings A Lajandro and hello everyone. This is your Open Mindes UFO News Brief for Monday, October third, twenty eleven. Alejandro, I feel like David Letterman. We have a top ten. Isn't that cool? Oh? Great? I don't think we've ever had a top ten. No, this is our first top ten. Yeah, we might have had a top ten, but here is a top ten.

Live Science published an infograph last week on their website showing the top ten states for UFO sidings. The National UFO Reporting Center's data was used to create the infographic, and the data represents sightings from nineteen ninety four to twenty eleven. I guess what the number one is, Alee Hundro, Illinois and California. It is California, number two. You want to try Texas and that's number three. You're close. The top three are California, Washington, and Texas,

and our wonderful state of Arizona is lucky number seven. Yeah. Nice, Well, these are based off of Newfork too, and they don't receive these days as many as Moufon does. That is correct. This is national UFO Reporting Centers data, which was an interesting choice for Life Science to use. But I think they sort of it was more of an uninformed decision to use that data, I think. But well, and you know, they

just go to the web and they find who's getting UFO reports. There's been lots of stories, especially on the East Coast, about Peter Davenport and that, so I think they find him and get a hold of him, and he always answers the phone. So they get their data, say send us some data and bout the boom by to being nicely put m hm, how

it works. Been in the business for a while. Yeah, so that the top ten I was I was kind of shocked, and then when I read where they got the data from, I I I could understand a little more. But yeah, move On does focus more on actually tracking that data and and mapping it. Out and you did a great job of that while you were there, and I was here. When I came here, I finally had time to put the data together, So yes, and aren't you still working on that? I need to do that again and I'll do that

again soon. But to see what I had to put together, you can go to our website open Minds, to that TV and just look for hot spots and you'll be able to see based off of years, I mean all the years that move On's been collecting it to data what the hot spots were. And I found similar stuff California, Arizona, Colorado actually which they didn't have. But that's what surprised me the most. The omittance of Colorado.

It seems to be mostly based around population. But one thing I did is based it off of found out what the percentages were per people, so you can see where are there more sightings per person than other places, and that was interesting. Arizona and Colorado were two of the tops on that. And interestingly, you've lived in both places. Dun, Dun, Dun. I think there's a conspiracy around that could be could be well another news Allahado,

and I haven't heard anybody talk about this really. But the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, New Mexico, recently debuted a redesigned website. The new website makes it easier for visitors to read about the history of the museum and the history of the Roswell UFO incident that occurred in nineteen forty seven. The website also contains information about plans for the construction of the brand new,

multimillion dollar facility that will house the museum. The website explains the new, larger museum will offer new displays, a futuristic building, plus lots of motor home and tour bus parking. The museum is a major part of the city of Roswell's UFO Festival that takes place every year, and the new website also contains information about that. You can check out the newly improved website at www dot Roswellufomuseum dot com. And I can say this now because I was

being nice and I didn't say it before. They used to have one of the worst sites in UFO and the whole UFO online webscape. It was so terrible. It was all over the place. But this website is now one of the best out there. It is so nice. I mean, I was surprised. It was just gorgeous. It looks like a lot of thought and money and time is put into it. It's an incredible website that they

have. Now, you're certainly right about their old website. You know, it was a difficult site to go to, and I was really shocked when you mentioned to me that they readed their website. It kind of was a surprise going there and seeing this. Yeah, it was a pleasant surprise there just I can't remember why, but it was just it was not that I knew that they changed the website. I just went there doing some research or something, and I discovered this great website. I was shocked, and it's

really cool. So everybody has to go check it out. Good job, Roswell, UFL Museum. Way to go, Roswell. A little bit of Hollywood news here. Keeper Sutherland believed that extraterrestrial life exists in the universe, and that's exciting to me because Keeper is one of my favorite actors. Really, I was a big twenty four fan. I was a big My favorite with him is probably Last Boys. I thought you were gonna say young Guns. No, I was thinking of Young Guns for some reason the other day.

But young Guns, it was kind of cheesy for me. Last Boys I loved well. According to Banks show Bid, Sutherland believes it would be quote very arrogant to believe this is the only planet that could sustain some kind of life. He further stated, quote when I look up at the sky on a clear night and see the washup stars and planets, everything that is outside our universe, I have to believe there is life everywhere. And I know a lot of people are going to kind of poo pooh this this statement

and say it's just being blown up from nothing. This is the kind of nothing response that we hear from a lot of people, you know that, oh, there has to be something out there. And people criticize that response, But I like that response, especially when it comes from somebody in the spotlight, because even a statement like that is kind of a big deal for them. I mean, we have the ridicule factor that everybody faces, but

celebrities seem to suffer even more so. And when a celebrity comes out and you know, we'll face that ridicule and say hey, I'm confident there's something out there, it's more of a big deal than I think many people will give it credit. Yeah, maybe so. I mean, really, when they're asked that question, usually this is their answer. Right, especially lately,

it's been there's got to be something out there. But it's better than you know, making funny people or something, right, It's better than just laughing right away at that. Because these people who act in in even loosely related movies, you know, talking about extra extraterrestrials or UFOs or anything space related, this question frequently gets asked to these these actors in press conferences and what was the movie again? I forget what this movie is, Okay,

I don't even remember if the interview was related to it. It's something that the articles that mentioned this referenced because it's about an asteroid coming to Earth and big doomsday type thing. But but you know, the question gets asked to these people who act in these movies more and more lately, and we're seeing this this response a lot, or related responses, a lot people saying I

absolutely think that there's something out there. And while that isn't a very committal answer, it's not anything you know that we might want to hear, like, oh, yeah, I've seen aliens, I've seen UFOs whatever. At least it's a statement that's not laughing, and you know it shows that they do think about the subject and they're not trying to make light of it. Yep, excellent, Keeper, Alejandro. This is something that you wrote about

recently, and I think we touched on it last week. But the White House launched a new section on their website called We the People that allows people to post petitions about matters they want the White House to address. If a petition obtains a certain number of signatures within a given period of time, the White House says that they will review the issue and make an official response.

Well. Political activist Stephen Bassett of the Paradigm Research Group posted a petition on September twenty second which asked the President to quote formally acknowledge an extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race, and five days later, the petition reached the five thousand signature mark, and I think as of today it was close to seven thousand signatures. Yep, yeah, I checked it out. It's interesting. I think that the wording personally, I think it's going a little far. Acknowledge

extraterrestrial presence. I asked, of course, Steve Bassett if he thought the president knew about an extraterrestrial presence. Steve Batsett said, if he doesn't, he can easily find out. But as I wrote in my story, Bill Clinton seemed to really try to find out and didn't get anywhere. And what's interesting is that, you know, people think, well, he's just covering up. Bill Clinton might have known more than he implies, but he says, I tried to find out, and I'm embarrassed about it, like even

in this video that we have. But he goes on to say that I wouldn't be the first president who has been lied to or secrets have been kept from from career bureaucrats, So there could be some dark secrets out there. Why would he even add that? If he was in the know and he wanted to cover that up, why not just say, oh, I'm sorry, I was being goofy and I looked into it and I didn't find anything

and just stop there. But instead, he always and he's done this before, eludes to possibly that maybe people do know and they just didn't tell me. And I was surprised to see that. Well, I guess I wasn't that surprised, but I wasn't expecting to see other extraterrestrial related petitions on the White House website as well, but there's there's a few more, yes, but this one certainly had the most signatures. Yeah, so that's kind of

it was the first one up too. Yep. And again I doubt they'll address this if at all, and when they do, I'm sure it'll be a joke. Well, yeah, they do have to make some response, and Lee Spiegel is writing a story on the Huffington Post correct where he talked to the White House, so they may we'll have to see what they say. They're gonna get posted any minute now, so I'm really excited to see that. So we'll have to see what this White House rep told him.

I'm guessing they're just going to say something like the Air Force looked into it, they didn't find anything, right, thank you by or they'll pull a Slimington and joke about it. Yeah, maybe the Phoenix. It's very possible. Well, Lehondra, I would love to talk news all night, but I've got to cut it short because we have an extended interview tonight, very

exciting interview with Michael Horn, So I will leave it at that. Remember to check out these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. I'm Jason McClellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and

you've been breathed. And if you are listening on blog talk or on a podcast, I do strongly recommend, as all Jundra suggested to either watch on the U stream tonight or check out the archive on YouTube tomorrow or anytime after the show to watch so you can see the visuals that accompany this interview, because I think the visuals are important, especially for this show. So you

can check out our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash open MINDSTV. Back to you, Alejandro, all right, yeah, what, thank you for doing that and letting them know we only have a few seconds before we need to get that interview going. But just to tell you a couple of things that are on the website. Michael Stratt, of course, who works here,

and he's really into airplanes and black projects and stuff. He took a look at Billy Meyer's pictures and he was a little skeptical and we posted something online about that. He also likes to illustrate UFO cases because he's looked into thousands, which he talks about in that story. But we've got some illustrations that he did on some stories also. And then last week I told you

about the Rand Corporation and UFOs and some stories Antonio wrote on that. Well we've got part two on that, and you're gonna want to check out part two because it's great. It goes into detail about a research document that Rand

Corporation did on UFOs. So very cool. And I'm speaking fast because we got to get Michael Horn on the line, So let's go ahead and talk to Michael Horn about Billy Meyer. I am happy to have on the show Michael Horn, because, of course, as you all know, we talked about Billy Meyer a couple of weeks ago, and some of that what we talked about got back to Michael, so we definitely want to give him a chance to clarify or let us know more about those things. And I of

course have a lot of questions for Michael. So welcome, Well, thank you, al thanks very much. I'm glad to be on with you. How are you doing. I'm good. I'm just maybe a little bit horse so if you need to tell me to I don't mean I'm a pony. I mean, I'm just a little throat, a little right. You feel free to proud me here, so to speak, to speak louder if you need me to. Okay, great, we'll do. And I have a feeling you're definitely an energetic person, that your energy will kick in and that

you will be plenty loud enough for us. All right, all right, So first I have just a list of clarifications things to go over. Of course, these are some of the more tougher points that have been brought up over the years, but I think it's important because you, of course are very adamant and to put it lightly about the importance of the Myer case, and that people groups like move On need to be paying more attention to it.

However, and really in the past when we've talked, I have been someone who has I would say, I want I've always really wanted to believe in the Myer case, and I think it caused me to maybe overlook some things. And so maybe it's good for us to talk about these things that now that I'm clear on, I can see why people wouldn't take would be hesitating about this case, and I think it's fair that they are, and let's go over some of that. So let's start with on the top of

my list. You have sent me some pictures of models, and they're very well taken to where they look real. You know. I was showing my colleague here and he looked at them. He said, wow, that looks like an old picture and from the fifties or something, and it wasn't. These were models. So I was sure, what point you're trying to make. The point you're trying to make that anything can be baked or replicated. Yes, you know what. I had the same reaction when I came upon.

I was just searching stuff online and those fantastic photos came up, and I thought I was looking at photos from, you know, my childhood period. And then the more I got into it, I realized this guy has made these most amazing models. And there's things to be said about model making. Models can be made of anything, And actually the fact that it took the skeptics so long to get people to make models of Meyer's UFOs tells us something, and maybe people will want to think that through. But let me

say this about the models. When you have somebody such as that model maker who can devote or dedicate the amount of time that he did to studying so precisely, and you know, reproducing in great detail the cars, the homes, you know, all the scenarios, and you're audience will see all that. That means that he had something to work from and he had the time to do it. Now we know that Meyer has been taking photos of UFOs, not since nineteen seventy five, my friends, but since nineteen sixty four.

And you may want to cover that at a different point in this, but it's very very important because however we do this and in responding to models, when people talk about, well Meyer made models and he strung them up with fishing line, and then you've got people running around doing these Rube Goldberg type of fishing line installations between trees and suspending models. Didn't anybody ever really look into the research in this case and find out a few things such as

Meyer was observed regularly by all the nice nosy people in Switzerland. They were interviewed by the investigators both in the original investoration and by Gary Kinder. They were asked, did you see him carrying anything? What was he doing? You know to set up the kind of model rigs takes time you're going to run fishing line. There's no record that Meyer was a fisherman and that he ever purchased fishing line or any of that kind of stuff. The devil is

in the details. So the other part, if you want to look at models, people say, well, we've taken these household items like plates and pots and pants, and we well, did they bother to find out? What were the plates and pots and pants in Meyer's place? Did they bear any resemblance to that? Was there a workspace in which he could work to

make up to one dozen different models? And now you're going back, as I said, to nineteen sixty four in the middle of nowhere in India where he photographs askets shipship of Asket, which is a totally different type than the other craft, plus up to eight of the light objects in these nineteen sixty four photographs. So I'm going to stop long enough for you to get on of this. When people talk about models, they really don't understand the established

realities of myer situation. Now, first I'll say that out of the case, no doubt, I think one of the most impressive pieces of evidence, and one that I personally feel is legitimate, is the nineteen sixty four India photographs. I mean those are different than the rest. There were witnesses. In fact, I can never remember exactly her name. I know I have a here it's pullball chain pull exactly. So who's a diplomat? Now, yes, she was. She's a retired diplomat. She'd been at the UN

for something like a dozen years for Cambodia. And I should add something here just in case, because you know, time flies when we're having fun. But when we made our film The Silent Revolution of Truth, poboalt Cheng, her video piece that was included and Billy Myers were analyzed by a man who was a expert consultant and expert consultant to the US Army Special Forces. He

consults in body language. Now why would that be important? Because special Forces and of course all other soldiers have to be able to make immediate determinations about a person's state that they observe. Is that person trustworthy, deceptive, devious threat to me? We're talking now, instantaneous assessments that take place split second. That this man teaches the finest military He had the opportunity to sit and watch Meyer's video off and of course pobol Chang. We turned the sound off

even though Meyer was speaking in German. I didn't want him to possibly because he didn't know who Billy Meyer was. And we didn't explain it to until after we were done, and we said, we want your assessment on these two people. So the sound is off, you know, and he's watching and it's in a center film and he says, basically, it's the thumbs up to these people. They're honest, they're telling the truth as they know

it. So when you go back to India and you know, when you're talking about that that amazing photograph there that you've got of the cross of the sky. This was taken on a nineteen forties Kodak Bellows type camera. Meyer is sitting in the foreground. Somebody else took the picture and that cross in the sky was projected holographically in nineteen sixty four. I have been up with my nose to that photo. That photo that you see in there is at

the very end of our film. We stood in Meyer's office with his open personal book. This isn't even something that they show to the public, and there was that photograph and we lingered on it because it's amazing and it's I don't have some maname reaction to that picture. I think that picture is billy. It looks like a couple of pieces of tape were taped onto the film when it was developed. I mean, well, edge jumping and look like tape. I know I don't have a really great copy. Yeah, I

understand, but you have to understand. This was sixty four kodak Meyer developing all of his UFO photos at local as much as you can get local labs. This is not tape. How does he take tape and put it on a photograph developed in the lab? I, as I said, my nose and my partner in this, who's you know, filmmaker, We looked at that. That's a photograph where that object, whatever we may think it is, is in the photograph. But let's leave that for people to you know,

respectfully question or disagreeable. Let's leave that. And I got to when we get into getting back to the models and stuff from the sixties. You know, these India pictures are different, but then they move in to the seventies and as time goes on, they really get kind of more and people have a hard time with it. They get a little more convoluted, they

look very they don't look as real, they look more like models. And then we get these stories that from Meyer himself that he did have models, that he did make models at they took photographs of him and they were terrible, and this was something that was shown to the investigators. But let me go to your point about this about the photos and how they look. First of all, we do have to understand this is a man who took over

twelve hundred photos of the four of these objects. And again go back to this point, how did he, as a one armed man with no place that's ever been discovered, effectively craft at least seven or eight different types of so called models, metallic and multiple ones, and to spend them at angles and all of this undetected by anybody. Now, the other problem borist by himself. And he didn't have a job, right, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.

He lived there were two places he's currently living in, one that I think they took over in maybe seventy eight or nine. But he lived in basically two buildings, and the one that he's been in the longest is a farmhouse that he took over that at the time, had no in some places no floor, had no running water, electricity, And here he was, sometime working as a night watchman, renovating this place basically by himself. Was

sometimes a little bit of help. Raising three kids and doing all this was one hand, going on the contact, photographing and filming the objects, coming back and transcribing it up to end, over one hundred words per minute. What now totals over twenty six thousand pages of information. This is pretty nifty stuff for a farmer. But let's go to this thing of being alone. He was anything but alone. I've been to Switzerland a dozen times. I'll

be there thirteenth time fairly soon. Now, look these areas where he lived, they're not forests. He went to different forests and meadows, open fields, mountains to photograph, but he had to traverse different people's properties almost every time, and in some cases even in the contact reports he says to you know, Semyazi or somebody you know, that was very unfair of you to make me go to that one location. I have to go through four different

closed fences and get off my moped. So here's a one armed guy riding and sometimes twenty thirty kilometers in all weather to remote areas on a moped with one hand. Are we really going to have him dancing around now stringing fishing line for what I mean? This is where things get very bizarre. But let's come back to an essential point and one that I'm going to hold you guys to. There were originals and first generation prints examined and analyzed this case,

contrary to what's been said, my friends. And you can know that because you guys that Open Minds actually own Wendel Stevens collection, and I've sent you some screen captures of some of the places where they speak about the originals being analyzed, and about them traveling with originals on trains and the strange security

that they suddenly got unasked for by the CIA and other people. And then where there is a you know, a complete photo analysis document that is free on my website that people can look at them myself done, oh my goodness at the time stated that's the metals. No, no, no, there's a whole photo analysis document and I think you'll be able to put that up

soon to show it. And this was very discreet. They outlined every piece of equipment, every kind of computer analysis all of the work done on edge enhancements and analyzing pixelization and thermography, even Marcel Vogel's idea to illuminate one of the photos or negs. I'm trying to remember. I sent you a capture on that with red light and then tested using infrared and they could find an energy signature between the UFO and a Swiss Mirage jet that was sent up.

They had eleven photos of that encounter with a Swiss Mirage jet and they had the sound recordings. Now, so we don't lose a sense of perspective. You and I know that we could do probably three hours here easily. And I will say to you now, because you know I have questions for you, I don't know get to them, but can you think of one other so called UFO case where you have so much to go through, where it's been analyzed, it's been examined, there's there's a problems that it it when

you go through this analysis. And I've seen Windel step and even himself he's not consistent in what he says, what generation was, what I mean? He mostly said he never touched anything except for two to six generation pictures. No, he never had the right zero ones. You're going to find it in those documents where he says originals and first generation. And that's what I'm hearing, is there these inconsistencies and not only that, uh, most of

these labs. I think that's one of the issues is that it hasn't been for instance, you know, with something that's going to be taken as scientific evidence, first has to be analyzed by multiple labs. And typically, if ever are they able to say, they can say it's something that is a solid object that is a certain distance away from the camera. But that's about all they can say. They can they can say it's not top Here's what they can tell you. It is either a small object close to the camera

or a large object a distance from the camera. It either has some thermographic signatures. We can either find out that there is haze around it so that there is a lack of distinct edges that is consistent with a larger object at a distance from the camera. This is why if you take let's say Phil Langdon's photographs, and I encouraged Phil for over two years. I have the email record I've been in touch with this guy encouraging him to take his best

shot and every photo of his. If you look, they're lovely, they're clear as can be. The ones that are supposed to be at a distance are still too clear and you really know what you're looking at. And I'm not a photographic expert, but I've read Wendell's report and that's not a mickey

mouse report. Go through that electrodensitymmetric analysis of edit. I mean done brument with the wedding cake ones, that they're too clear, that they're too in focus, that they and people point that out as evidence, including people who claim themselves to be photographic experts, of it being you know, the too close to the camera. No, what happened was in the two clear ones

on Myer's case, and this again is in Wendell's stuff. They went and had certain type of chromographs made where they were able to enhance and and they show the original fit photo and they showed the enhanced one where they were able to bring out the detail that showed you all of the dissimilar metals and the craft, that showed you the contours and the fledging and the machine. This is not done by somebody in their kitchen. The best stuff on these regular

UFOs disc type things that Meyer did. Phil try to duplicate the Hassenball one of the Hassenball, they're amateurish at best because you can't do it. There's no flashing lights to be seen on Langdon's film of the so called Hassenball duplication.

We shouldn't do too much. In my opinion, let people read this evidence because I'll tell you right now, and people sometimes criticize me for this elehandro if you take all the UFO evidence out of the case, I can prove to you that Meyer is, as David Froning, astrophysicist said, being advised by very knowledgeable people scientifically, and that means he's being advised by people who have access to information that nobody else on earth does. Now I know

we're going to get to that segment. We'll definitely get to we get we'll spend most of the last part on that. The issue is is, of course, as you know, extraordinary claims take extraordinary evidence. It's something that we all face in this field is that the bar is set higher for this field than it even for scientific research. Scientists can go to the media and say we think this and that. Later it turns out to not be true, but it's different for this field. And just to highlight some of the

issues such as with the models. Again, Billy Meyer has said that even the alien Sam Josse has given him a model of a beam chip. Right. Look, let me let me try to put this in perspective. I just said before and I'll say it again. There are up to twelve different objects that Meyer photographed, some of in some cases for in a full and at different angles. We've got to get our heads straight here. Nobody else in you that doesn't. Okay, So these pictures were difficult to make,

they're able to be made with models. Billy Meyer has set and I'm just photograph that the play Devil's advocate that Billy Meyer and Eddy's had models, not only models that he made, but models from an extra treasurill that were given to him and then taken away. And these are pictures that could be made by models. And no, no, this is look no, no, that's not representing what's in the case. I'm sorry. Wendell Stevens, as you know, had a model made the studio at MGM. Pretty decent model,

looked good. It wasn't made out of metal, but it was good. There's photographs of it. Uh, they photographed it and when they did computer analysis, And this is where it comes down to it. You can talk about photographs and films all day long. No skeptic who's tried to duplicate Myers photographs or films has submitted their model photographs because they will be coming back

as models. They won't get an analysis such as was done. But what about Myers then that he never did You never make any refooses to He dodges it all the time though. I mean you could do that yourself, and his craft looks exactly like Billy Myers. Well, yes and no. I mean again, this is where people have got to not be fooled by anybody's photographs on the basis of I if you don't know what you're looking for, you're gonna miss it. Because Phil does really nice models and good visual effects.

I told him that. But I also helped him correct one of his films because he got it wrong, and I helped him. I'll go through that in a minute, but let me direct you to something that I sent to you guys, and I have it up online now. I've got a page called the Special Evidence. I lead it off with, oh, I don't know, more than a half dozen different photographs taken by other people from the nineties into two thousands of the play Aron being ships broad daylight and summ

at night. Here's the problem. We can tell from the photograph and from the blow up these are not I'm sure, go ahead, Oh no, I know exactly what the problem with those is that there they are saucer shaped objects that are often in the distance. But that's the most popular window. We have dozens and dozens of these types of pictures here in Windows collection, and there's a lot of legitimate pictures out there all around the world of these

type of objects. You're I think you're jumping a little ahead here after the ones taken by the different people who are connect to the myre case, and these are broad daylight objects in the distance, hovering over mountains. They're clearly not little Phil Langdon models up close and and me really just took a look. Then we have a series of photographs taken by a Swiss skeptic. Five of those photos were taken at night and two of them in the daytime.

They show the play rn spacecraft. This is why I'm going to say to you. Look, if you're gonna talk about UFO photos at this stage of life, for everybody, frankly, it's a dead end. We've got the best testing, they were analyzed, I don't know you've got you haven't proven the backpact. And not only that, but that's an unnamed sourus. The skeptic is an unnamed person. So so what Look, let me ask you, I can't use an unnamed sourus if you're if you're talking about legitimate that.

We have six other people who names we know, and they took photos. But here's the question to you. I said I had some Okay, let's just say, let's just say, just for the sake of discussion, that the testing that was done by you know, the investigative team, at their own expense, showed that these were authentic. If the Myer case is true, what will it mean to you? Just that's all. What if the case is true, what will it mean to you? Well, to

me, it would mean a lot. I mean, like I said, I've always wanted the taste to be true, and for the most part, well up until recently, I've held, you know, a stronger hope that it was true. But if it was true, It certainly doesn't mean to me the same things it would mean to you. In other words, what it would mean to me is that then this is a gentleman who did capture advanced technology on film and on pictures, and who believes he is in communication

with these guys, and so then it would mean a closer look. He wouldn't be the first of these people. In fact, there are others who really who's evidence probably stands up a little stronger. For instance, Travis Walton, many witness Travis in his King Travis Walton only has Travis Walton has a handful of witnesses to some phenomenon. Billy Meyer has something close to one hundred witnesses, seventeen of whom has taken light detecture chests and who have witnessed multiple

events, five to seven of them who photographs the craft themselves. Now, really the Travis Walton case, here's what I'm say. The craft that you're talking about, if you're talking about those pictures you sent me, I mean, first of all, like you said, these weren't all people that were around Meyer, and the craft are similar to other craft taken by other people. I mean, it doesn't doesn't mean that the same people. That doesn't The one you can tell it is the same craft is the anonymous source.

Now the other ones, if you look, they're very consistent with the shape of the beam ships. And I have witnesses people that I know who have seen the ships come over the center in Switzerland. This is recently, is a couple of years ago. I'm trying to explain something that's a little different. I asked you what would it mean to you, and you'd say,

well, okay, that he's taking photographs. Okay, so you said it would mean that he was taking photographs of advanced technology and that he believed that he was in touch with people. Yea, Now this is where I have to start shaking the blanket out here. Belief in my world has no value. So what is the reason if there are extraterrestrials, if there really are,

why would they come? Is it to give us light shows? Is it to create activity for move on, which pardon me, but to the best of my knowledge, has produced the zero valuable evidence in forty to fifty years. Or is it another reason? Could it be that there is a reason that advanced humans or whatever you want to call them have come light years from the depths of space to play a little hide and go seek to operate. Perhaps maybe a term you would understand a little bit like the trickster,

who would not put everything on the plate for us. Instead, they would kind of force us to piece things together with our own experiences, with evidence, using our own intelligence, our own spirituality and intellect to come up with

these connections. And instead of forcing it on us and laying it out so that we have no choice but to believe, as you said, they're gonna make us work for it, and they're gonna make it difficult, not only for us, but probably for the guy who's got the task bringing it forward. So what would that See when I asked you this question, Now, that's great, this is where I wanted to get to, and we would here early, but go ahead. I'm sorry, good, but that's all

right. See here's the thing. Let's say this case was ongoing, which it is, and it was happening in Saint Louis right now, would you go there to check it out as a as a UFO investigator And this stuff is so difficult you can't always do that, I mean, unfortunately, Well it's part of the difficulty. Uh, you know, we don't always have access, and that's what happens with mouf on a lot of the times.

Uh let me, I know. But I said, if this was happening locally, relatively locally and okay, so you probably would do the same thing if it was New York City too. I mean, you know here it's not and little stretch. If you had to get on a plane and you went to Switzerland. If this was really going on and going on today, wouldn't we think that the people who are most interested in this field and getting to the truth of it would find a way to go and look into this

themselves. But when you touch and get on it earlier, m is that just like you've said, this is the hard part. If there's a little bit of this trick strain here where they're giving us pieces and parts but they're not giving it at all to us, that certainly would be something that's going on in this case. And you asked a question, why would someone come so far to do something like that? Now, I believe that that is sort of what's going on, But it's certainly if the Billy Meyer case is

real, that would be what's going on. They give Billy Meyer a model of a UFO, then they take it away. They give Billy Meyer a laser gun that looks absolutely ridiculous, and I believe the laser got it all. But let's say it's real. Let's say it's real. They give it to him and then they take it away. They give him all of this stuff that would be evident, and then they take it away. So they obviously would be acting if they're real, like this trickster to get giving stuff

and taking it away. So you couldn't blame It's part of even their method. You couldn't blame other researchers for having doubts. And when you're talking about going to Switzerland and for these guys who have families and who have jobs, to spend thousands of dollars to go out there and investigate when you know they have a host of other cases that they feel are legitimate. It's a lot to ask and too much. And let me give you let me give you

a response to that. Okay, First of all, the as I said before, and I know we're going to get more strongly into it, it is actually very easy to know if the Meyer case is true or not. And I said there's a reason for it, and we're coming to that. However, let's back up, with all due respect to any and everybody caring on about UFO cases, I will say the following. It's Meyer's opinion, and I happen to share it as someone who's had six UFO sightings myself.

They are saying that the majority of this is simply terrestrial craft. There are no et contacts going on. Oh. People get all excited when they hear that. They get angry, but they can't produce one piece of verifiable evidence that something is extraterrestrial and that there's a significance and a reason for it. Now, I will come to this about people spending thousands of dollars. I am a guy who's gotten by in life on a very very modest level.

I have paid for everything myself. They don't fly me to Switzerland, they don't put me up, they don't wind me and dine me. I find a way to do it because of one simple thing. If this is true, Alejandro, it's the most important story in human history. If it's not, it really is the best and impenetrable hoax, lasting seven decades. One

man with one hand who is produced six categories of physical evidence. We're still arguing about in twenty six thousand pages of information, where the actual proof of the extra terrestrial contact, why it is inescapable? It is what drives the skeptics nuts. It drives the skeptics so nuts that I have now had two occasions with an astronomer who has an online blog, guy named Stuart Robbins,

where he cannot respond, he refuses, he demanded evidence. I gave it to him, and he folded hundreds of posts going on his friends and minions attacking me. There's no shortage of that, claiming all sorts of stuff. And yet we produce copyrighted, dated, published documentation that Billy Meyer published scientific information on some of the most important discoveries in this in the last century before

they occurred. Now that has to think in take all your UFO theories, state your sounds and your fishing lines and your sound and now forget it. This does not exist anywhere in ufology, and open Minds is sitting on a lot of this. You know this, you know this ends the UFO field. I'm sorry. If what I'm telling you is true. If Meyer indeed published that there were two planets, beyond Pluto to be discovered around the turn of the century. It was true, it was true, we documented it,

but it's not true that there are only two planets beyond Pluto. Didn't say too. She said two would be discovered right around the turn of the center, and we withdraw that that we would find at least two quote unquote can roll the well, I've rolled a dive before. I asked you, do you know any but people, especially when it's your job, I'm going to come ask you with it, Alejandrawait. Skepticism is one thing. Your library with Wendell stuff, has a book you've got. I sent you those

photos. They're copyrighted, data published. Wendell speaks about that, you know, Pluto information, and it's right there. Now, what's interesting about that isn't even the Pluto information. Those two discoveries, those specific two happened right around the turn of the century. But what's interesting he speaks about the one hundred and fifteenth contact from October nineteenth, nineteen seventy eight. There's a whole

bunch of predictions in there that Wendell saw and he wasn't supposed to. When he's talking about it, he mentions Jupiter and some moons. Now, why is this important? Now? And now I'm going to give you some thing that if you really think you can debunk this, you go ahead and take your shot. Here's the story. Billy Meyer in October nineteenth, nineteen seventy eight, was apparently taken up close to see Jupiter and to confirm that it had rings. He saw that there was a moon called Io. He described

that as being the most volcanically active body in the Solar System. He said that the dust particles and the ejective from the volcanoes not only fell back onto Ile, but they comprised one of the rings of Jupiter. He said all sorts of detailed stuff about this. Now on March ninth, you'll see it right on that page that you've got in that book. Wendell says, I had this information in my hands March ninth. Now he doesn't even refer to Io. He never did. He never noticed it. But here's what happened.

Three days later, Monday, March twelfth, nineteen seventy nine, NASA makes an announcement. I don't know if you heard. Did you hear that announcement? Probably not. And the announcement was the most important discovery of the voyager mission is that Ile is the most volcanically active body in the Solar System.

And when it was that information made at public that Billy Meyer had said that no later than three days before, but Meyer had already published it in nineteen seventy eight October, when he published his and disseminated his nemeographed copies that did not include the predictions that he was not allowed to share that Wendell got by accident, which may be in your possession, signed off by two other guys, one from the Flanderal Planetarium and another guy Lieutenant major in the Air

Force. Now followed a skeptic tried to debunk this, and this last week I put up a document and I think you guys have it. You'll be able to run it up. By the end of the show people can go and see it. I shred every bit of debunking and show that the skeptic himself stated effectively the very thing he claimed he was debunking. He said, there were never any you know, sulfur particles found in the in the rings

of Jupiter. Well that's not true, and he even quotes a place where where they exist and It drove me crazy to see it, so obviously I put up you know, a nice little you know now, just the understand. In nineteen seventy six, Meyer published information on three discoveries that would be made on Mars that happened, and I think it was two thousand and eight he published information on discovery in Venus, one year before the Russian probe got

there and confirmed them. It goes on and on. He published I think though he published them in environment on the figure website because we never saw them. These weren't published here until like two thousand and one, not until like Moosebooger's book and Wendel and these were years later. Years, these were even after these events took place. Well, no, here, look, I can give you some I mean, I could do this all day long,

but here's I've given examples and something that's easy to check out. In nineteen eighty seven, Meyer published something called the Hennock Prophecies. They're on my website. I put them up in two thousand and two. You know, that is an easy record to find out. They've been up there for years. They've been referred to on the internet. Okay. One of the odd little things that struck me about the Hennock prophecies, and there were many, was

it? Meyer went and said, of all the crazy things Russia, and they don't give dates. He sais Russia will at a certain point invade Scandinavia. They will invade Iran and Turkey and then ultimately come across Alaska an attack on the US. Russia will launch its attack from Arkanzelsk. What the heck is in Arkanjelsk. I've never heard of it, have you? Do?

You know what in Arkandelski is? Okay? Good? We were in the same boat within the last two months, within the last two months, and I will give it to you as close to the date as I possibly can. The Russians announced something very interesting. They announced trup movements into Arkanzelsk. Oh another coincidence? Is it? They announced that in July, like two

months ago, deploying two army brigades to Arkanshalls. Oh? Okay? Now, what about the discovery of extraterrestrial DNA on meteor Right, it was just made recently, that's announced it? Well, my I had already published that in nineteen eighty eight, you know, perhaps in nineteen eighty two. He describes touch screen technology in one of the spacecraft while he's being shown a planetary

alignment. You know that he warned since the fifties about the atomic testing because it was going to damage the ozone in nineteen eighty eight, two years after. But this is a problem, and you have not demonstrated this well if indeed these all were made prior to when they were discovered. Now this Russian one, of course, is something different, because all of these books that came out with these predictions are all after these events, talking about no,

no, no, no, the World Trade Center. That book came out what in two thousand and one, two thousand and two, saying that he made this prediction many many years earlier. There are some things. If people say that we can't buy the World Trade Center, think I say fine, but no, no, you're missing something. Just about all of this exists in German first, and then in English. Those German books and publications for instances. On my website, we have this very very famous thing that I've

stuck up there about the fifty one hundred year old man. What's that? Well Meyer was told in nineteen ninety one that there would be an Iceman mummy discovered in the Alps, and he was told about how this guy lived and everything else, and how he died. He published it in his group members nineteen ninety one, and of course it was discovered later that year. But he did something else that you can see on my website because we show the

copyrighted, published dated cover of the book. It was in from nineteen ninety six. Well wait, that's five years years later. Why would I talk about it? Because Alejandro in two thousand and one, ten years after Meyer claims he first got the information, five years after we know it's published, scientists bring the Iceman mummy into a hospital in Italy. Why they want to find out what killed this guy? We've got CT scan now we could probably

figure it out. What did they find? Well, they found fractured skull, and they found something else. They found an arrowhead in his back. Now, when you go to Meyer's nineteen ninety six book, when you go there, what do you think you find? When Meyer asks what killed this guy? What do you think you find? You find that He's told, well, this man fell down from a height. Okay, so how do

he landed on his back? Oh? He must have hit his head and he landed Alejandro on an arrow Now, have you ever done anything on tape? He would be very good at doing. Thank you. I'll be glad to do it, but I don't. Here's what I'm saying. Fine, And I thought we would get to this because the problem is it's impossible, it is nearly impossible to research these alleged predictions that come true from your website.

Everything's so and then when you get into most of the work that's been done on this case, it's so unorganized, it's so contradictory that if you could demonstrate that and put that more succinctly on your site, I think you would people would be much more convinced. And I guess what, partially, And I'm telling you, I'm open minded to these things that you're telling me right now. And I certainly wouldn't say that's a bunch of yes because I

don't know better, and I believe you. I'd like to see this better so I could otherwise, how can you expect these move on investigators to believe any of this? If it's not, I'll tell you. You know, organized put well, And then when you have what is out there is the ray gun, the model that the aliens gave him and took him, took away you have whoa Kim? Respectfully? Can we come back to this thing about organized evidence, Just just so you know, I have an article on

my website. I have a whole page about corroborated evidence, the corroborated evidence. Now I organized that whole page just so good folks could go and look and find this stuff. It's called corroborated information. Now I have an article there at that's at the very top, and it's called will Humanity Wake Up? Alle hundred? I have organized it, you will bet as. I've laundry listed something like one hundred and fifty specific, separate, scientifically validated items

that Meyer published. First, I've linked to a guy's video. He even put it on videos so it's even easier for people to see. He shows the corroborated information, and I linked to the reports. We linked to a site where you can read the reports. And you guys have four books. And in the way I'm telling you, that's what I'm trying to tell you, none of these demonstrate evident you're corroborated. I've gone through that. You make a lot of claims, but you don't show any evidence for these things.

And I'm not saying the evidence doesn't exist, but you certainly aren't demonstrating it by making these claims that Billy Meyer said this in seventy five, but it wasn't until two thousand than one that it came out in some book.

But scientists talked about it in nineteen eighty one. I mean, it's all the way over the place, it isn't I think you're missing something here, And I want to get through to you on this because it really is important and your concern is important, or you know, you wouldn't you wouldn't be driving on that look in nineteen I'm going to give it to this this simply because you had. Do you know in what contact Meyer was told about the

A bomb explosions being connected to the uh ozone testing. Do you know what that is? I've read it a jillion times. I'll say it's Contact thirty five and Contact seven. Hey, I got to tell you something. Those are in Wendell Stevens copyrighted that. He published books, And here's how I knew the case was real in nineteen eighty eight. This Mike didn't come out until after No the content. Bear with me, I'm going to give it

to you. The first thing that happened was that the contact reports in mimeograph form came out in the late well actually early in the mid nineteen eighties, were around nineteen eighty. Wendell Stevens was working on getting these things translated by about nineteen seventy eight. Now, and I can you know, if you want to get technical, I'll show you why this stuff was before his copyright dates, because in the days of books being typeset and taking years to do.

Now, let's get to this point on the ozone damage. In nineteen eighty six, I was in a little cafe in Sedona and a guy named Ralph Amigron who later changed his name to Alex Collier, told me to come up to deck or Canyon and get the eighteen hundred pages. I got him. Randy Hinners had him. I know four or five of the people that still have the original pages. I read them all. I stuck them under

the beds. And then one day in nineteen eighty eight, I opened the newspaper and I see that little thing that that article a bomb testing tied to ozone damage. I read it. I read the percentages that Lawrence Livermore Laboratories had published, I said, why do I know this? Already? I reached under the bed and there in the seventh contact, and as you say, in the thirty fifth or whatever it is, there there was the information.

Ah, my head spun. But that was the beginning. Then, when we went onto this ozone damage from the gases leading to genetic mutations and damaging the food chain in nineteen ninety one, I went, wait a minute, why do I know that already? Of course that was still back in the my material in Wendel's books later, but in the contact reports as early at least as eighty six when I got them, which means they were circular at least a few years earlier. What about this whole connection of earthquakes and

volcanic activity tied to oil extraction and gas extraction. Well, when I read that one, I said, why do I know that? Well, that's back there in the you know, in the it's in the same thing. It's in Meyer's context from the forty fifth contact. But now I'm reading it in nineteen ninety. I read it first in eighty six. Nobody's gonna tell me if this guy isn't onto something. Well, and I have one last thing, Okay, I organized an article called will Humanity Wake Up in Time?

I put links to every single one of Meyer's translated contact reports, and there's stuff being translated to this day inverifiably preemptively previously published German. Because more people own the darn German than the English, and because they numbered every sentence,

there is no way Meyer could go back and redact your turn. Okay, here's what I Okay, I want to put this, not put it aside, but okay, to kind of encapsulate this that the predictions, and not to say you know that I personally have a hard opinion either way, but at least I think I've expressed why I think people have a hard time because it's difficult to substantiate. I feel a lot. It's very easy. I'm going to argue with this. It's easy to substantiate if I can do

it. A middle aged folks singer from the sixties, who's sbody life doing this on this or I spent a lot of your life on the case. Yeah, because it fascinated me. And I have to raise a kid, and you do other things and have all sorts of experiences. But you see, I did it so that others don't have to unless they want to walk through every step they can go, and then they can try to find out by cross referencing, like when I ripped the skeptic a part on IOH.

That means that the case is real. I'm sorry, Alejandro, there's no way to stop responding to you. No, no, no no. I documented his attempted debunking. Right, this is up there action. Okay, that's great for arguments. They think, say, okay, you have something really great here when it comes to all of these predictions and right, and I know there are a lot of them. And one last thing, just before you get in your other point, I have my own personal evidence the

case is real and I rarely talk about it. But go ahead. What were you going to say, Well, you gotta talk about it now. Okay, Well I'll give you that in a nutshell. Cal Korff, who you mentioned your last show. A couple quick things. Calcorff was never a member of FIBU. He never met Billy Meyer. He skulks around the place in a disguise for reasons nobody can figure. Since it's not a compound with people, you know, the armed guards carrying on. He never, never,

never, look, he falsified Meyer's photos. How do I know that the articles on my site? I met the man he hired to put the airbrush lines in there, the guy that came up to me two thousand and four apologizing. I've got his name. He wrote the article, but here's my personal evidence. In two thousand and nine, cal Korff approached me. We've been, you know, battling back and forth with a lovely little thing.

Why don't we do a project together? Hi, kal Korff will do the anti Meyer thing very respectfully on a DVD, and you, Michael Horn, will do the pro and you'll send it to me and I'll package it up and we'll put it out there. We'll agree to disagree, we won't be disagreeable. We'll be friends forever. His website suddenly had him walking hand in hand with me through the flowers. I said, sure, I don't hold grudges. Okay, you've been crazy in the past. I'm taking you

at your word. We roll into November of two thousand and nine. We're getting ready. He's got questions ready in all of this. I send an email to Switzerland. Hey, guys, as you know, I'm going to do a project with cor If Billy, is there anything you want one way or the other, He says, no, you do what you do, okay. Two days later, I get an emergency email from Switzerland from Christian Frend. Michael, hold, don't move, wait till tomorrow. You're getting

a translation of a contact. Things are not as you see them. I said, what okay? Now, remember I'm going hand in hand. You're with calcre Billy says, well, do what you want to do. I get a transcript. This is all on my website. People can read it.

It's a matter of record on the email servers. Bottom line, Michael Horn does not know that what Calcorff is planning this comes through the so called imaginary play art, is a tremendous attack on the case, using him as a vehicle, using Michael Horn on this project as a vehicle to spread more disinformation, falsification, you name it. Michael has no way of knowing, but we would recommend that he stopped. Okay, because time is short.

I found a relatively gracious way to back out. Sorry, cal you never sent me a contract. I'm busy. Do what you want to do. Two days after it was clear the course his website had no less than three hundred already prepared at tax against US and death threats. Now you may have an idea of just what it takes a one hundred to get somebody to take something off the Internet. I had three web hosting companies take down his site,

one in the UK, two in the US. He finally got another guy to put it up, and he finally only after he'd removed the death threats. How did the imaginary play er and know that this guy was loaded for bear? Oh, well, it's a coincidence, and nobody's going to believe it's not org. It's my experience, and I have the email with the transcripts I have. I put Calcorf's emails up. This was we are

walking through the flowers, and then he had all this stuff ready. He was going to put it on DVDs and I was going to be out there promoting it. Yeah, I'm not surprised. I mean, he is not a He doesn't play fair and I totally understand that. And the only part, you know, out of the defense of our article is some of the things that were demonstrated, some of the things that are you know, solid. We didn't take all of his word for this, that and the other.

Because he has a lot to say about a lot of stuff, but that he certainly cannot substantiate claims that are quite dubious. But but you know, he can't anything else. But but look, I would say to you this. You know, Calcorf, I gave you that because it's my experience. We have documentation. It's not you know, it's not a story I wove. I've got the names of the web hosting companies. I said, oh my god, death threats, no thing. We don't want the FBI

here. I talk to these guys. You know, I was on phone internationally an email and they were looking and this stuff went up overnight, so I was being set up. Meyer didn't know. Look, here's what you have to look at. And I think as an investigator, honestly, preponderance of evidence, quality of evidence. And I'll say one more thing, and this will I know this will offend everybody. There are no other worthwhile verifiable

UFO contact cases. And if anybody objects to that, I say, you come and meet this criteria and you can argue about whether you think there's models here or not, but you're gonna then have to go through the photo analysis. I canna say fit. You know, you know I mean all this stuff, I just you know, I just want to say this. Bill Langan says, all right, I duplicated the sounds on a fishing line. You think you could hear that four kilometers away. It's all the stuff that

people don't know and that they won't admit and they won't say. And yeah, I've spent almost thirty three years. So if you say, well it's too hard to find, I've organized it. I've got links everywhere, and I would be even glad it's links everywhere. Is this organization? I mean, that's the issue. But regardless, regardless, when I get to a couple of points, we're almost out of time, and you know your points are well taken, and you know people will will hear those and and do

what they will with those. But I wanted to get to two things because we're almost out of time. One is, uh, the abduction phenomena. There you have thousands, if not tens of thousands of people experiencing this. Sure, you know, I would admit there isn't a whole lot of evidence there. I myself have seen what I believe to be incontroversial evidence However, it's just something I saw. It's not something I can document and prove,

unfortunately, but still there are many other researchers. But then, what would you say about that there's a case when there's more witnesses than the billions. I'll tell you this, there is. There is not one piece of evidence that I have seen, including Roger Lews, have anything else that any reputable scientists will say we can prove this. There is an extraterrestrial contact. What has happened? And this you'll find. This is one of the reasons Mayer

has been targeted twenty two times for death. This is largely secret military stuff. It's operations that are conducted by private groups and secret military to create fear, to set people up for false et attacks and stuff. There is no reason, think about it. There is no reason on earth these phony ideas of well, we let them abduct our people in exchange. Anybody that can float somebody through a wallon here and put probes up their nostrils doesn't need our

permission, doesn't need to sign agreements. They would do it surreptitiously. Have there been actual extraterrestrially abductions. I think there have been a handful. The rest of it is either secret military hysteria, dream paralysis, or stuff. And until people can say I can demonstrate the extraterrestrial connections, and I can prove why somebody has come for a hundred light you're from space to take my DNA, my useless, worthless, short lifespan, corrupted, illness laden aggression.

Hey, that's mean. Well, you know you're talking about your DNA too, there, buddy, you bet you. And I'm hoping that it gets improved in my next incarceration. Okay, but yeah, so I would buy the induction thing is proving anything. Now. The what you build your case on there, though, is largely because of motive, and the motive that you have a hard time dealing with. But okay, let's let's use that same UH ruler on this case. Okay, you've got a situation.

And now I'm kind of kind of run through the the what the bad staff that Billy Meyers played and done that haven't helped the case? And you can tell me if I'm off faith here. Okay, So they've given him a model and then taken it away. They've given him on one model that we don't even know was ever appeared in any photograph where there's twelve different ones. But go ahead, Okay. Then they gave him a ridiculous looking laser gun that looks very similar to a plastic model. I'll do that one for you.

I did a search online for toy guns. Now does it look like a plastic model because of the red tip or something, or just the way it looks? Well, funny, it's plastic, for one. Not only that, you sent me a picture of a model of a gun and the red tip is exactly like the one. Actually isn't I used a magnifying glass, but it's close. And as I said on my website, do they have a sense of humor? Because here's the deal, the space gun and

you probably got that photograph right there. And if you look at the rest of that gun, it's a piece of Now look at the gun in the Alena photographs and here's a couple things, and you've got these photos. Yeah, pretty well machined the whole rest of it. Why would he use a junk tip and go to the trouble to machine something, as you say,

out of plastic it could be metallic. Then you get not only that, you realize, first of all, red tips as an indicator of a toy, and that's why this gun was an anomaly as an indicator of a toy didn't occur until after the nineties. That particular gun was never found in Switzerland. They'd never found a red tip gun. And all those investigations and lastly, perhaps the holes made through the trees are oval. They are smooth as glass all the way through. They created a cinge line for over one hundred

meters through the forest. This is all in the books that you guys ow'n well, we did they He did not believe there was any burning. No, that's not true. He measured, He shin that there wasn't burning. It was and done by Bernie. He said that. No, he said no, no, he said it wasn't done by using a torch or a

welding thing. He said, whatever went through here seared the interior of the tree to a glass smooth hardness, and that every branch that was burned all the way through in a straight line was burned all the way through in a straight line. I mean, I've got it on my website, you got it in the books. Great, No, that's ic because you're able to give us some information about that gun. But regardless, the main thing I'm getting back to anyway, is just that they gave him this gun and then

they took it away the tree that the UFO was flying around. They somehow and you can explain this because there's several people have done different things. Wendell said it was taken down. I believe that Billy Meyer actually said it had gotten radiation, so the extraterrestrials had taken it to another time. I'm not sure, sir. Let me answer that that's true, and that's real problematic

for people. But here's a beauty. There's a fameless photograph called the sunlight photo with the tree, and I know you guys have that, and maybe you'll show that at the end of the show here or something. The sunlight photo. There's a couple of them where the ship is right, you know, right by the tree. It's a barren branch tree. There's five other trees parts of around. Sunlight's glinting off of it. They photographed that tree

in a full bloom season and that's also in wend those photographs. And if you have trouble for this show to find it, we can find that. I'll get it for you. That tree was well over forty feet tall. That tree was there for years and years. They photographed it as a matter of fact on my website. I've got I think it's an article called the Final Proof. Meyer and the Japanese filter door walk up a hill in a video clip to the tree. It's there. So this is Oh, yeah,

it's a model tree. You know, that's why I disappeared. Huh, funny story on two trees. I can't prove that, you know. Oh, but the tree did bake care those other trees were gone. But the photographs, when you analyze as Jim deirdor did you analyze the UFO's and the photograph, they are showing large models at a distance from the camera with close up stuff in fuzzy focus because the distant focus is picking up the tree in the UFO. This is not stuff that's so easy to get around.

This is not stuff that any of these cases lak. I'm not quazing the picture. I'm questioning the motive because then we've got also, then we've got the alien after they already supposedly knew this for it several years, and I guess Billy myersaid they told him, But he forgot letting Billy Meyer pat out all of these UFO photos, which a lot of them. Later he says, were take where men in back that they were still look let me go for that, and let me go for that by way, also of the

asket photos. And the last year I say, okay, except for something and again this is up easy to find. Oh you have to do you they fly asket and there it's there and on my corroborated information page. Believe me, if anybody has a problem with it, I will send stuff my own time and expense. Here's the answer I read and you have it in your books. In nineteen seventy five, Meyer is told that there are two doubles in America who look like Askett near Us. He says, well,

great, let me go see him. And all of a sudden they said no, no, we really can't do that. He says, why they said, well, we can't talk about it. Twenty three years later, the Asket near A photos show up. Well, what's the next problem with that, apart from the fact that Meyer was told about it? When they say he photographed it off the screen? Uh, sorry, because Meyer got

his first TV sets. I think it was a year or two after he took the original asket near a photos and when you look at them and you compare it side by side, it doesn't have the color dots from the Kessold rate tube and the Dean Martin, one of the different looking woman does these are the devils in the details. So this the asket mirror the Dean Martin. You know everybody wants to say that, No, go and look at

it. Check out those He didn't take those photographs off of the TV set or those dimes would be You've got to understand how people would have a hard time swallowing that there's doubles of these alien on Earth Day work for the Martin and then by only nineteen seventy five. But he doesn't tell anybody until the pictures come out. Oh that's not so, they were published. That's that was published in Wendell's first book, and it was in the contact reports that

I got in eighty six. That's already twelve years before anybody brings it up. Alejandro, work with me here, as they say, well, and that's not even the point you get to bring this up. That's great, you brought this up. My point is this that you had the aliens giving the gun, taking it away, giving the model taking it away. You have them, you know, letting billy Meyer pass out these pictures that were supposedly, you know, switched out by men in black. Then you have

all of these predictions that you've gone through before. And for arguments sake, let's say this is all real. But these predictions aren't being given to the general public. They're given to one guy in Germany. And a lot of these predictions have to do with English speaking people. Why would they do that? What is the motivation then for these guys to come from as far as

they do, I mean, using motivators has a problem with abduction. That okay, you can find more motivations for abduction than you can for this. No. I love you asked some of your questions at the end, because look scientifically, and look please, I've spent time with David Frohne, who's an astrophysicist. I knew, of course, Wendell Lee and Britt I've talked to people who are investigators to all sorts. I like the detective mind.

The idea of why they took away things is secondary to whether they were real or not. But let's go to your question, why did they do this, Why did they give it to this guy? And it isn't all about English, you know, people in the West. So much of this information has to do with Israel, Russia, China, Scandinavia, Europe, the Middle East. Could it be more international, even touches on Pakistan and Indian Then why aren't they giving it to people in these countries too, That's what

I'm saying. They give it to this five guy in the mountains, and nobody else is forgetting that he supposed information that we need in order to help by Let me survive. Let me be brutal with you here, look at it, and let me be honest, because this is our process, all andre, and it's one we can respect. And I'm not attacking you, and I'm not actually attacking anybody else. Let's just for a moment look at

it this way. Let's say that they did give this to one guy who was tasked with the seemingly impossible, insurmountable task of making it available to the world, and they said, this will be your job. Look at how he is received so well, why don't they give it to be scientists? I put the information up on scientists' flogs. I send it out to filled Plate. I send it out to Tyson de Grass, Neil de Grass, I send it out to Michael Schermer. I send it out to Bernard Hasche.

I send it out to SETI. I send it out to Unit. They won't touch it. Well, why didn't he make the contacts with them? These people could not handle. Their paradigms would be shattered. You don't understand. It's hard enough. People try to kill the messenger, whether we like it or not. If this is true, and this is going to be for each and every individual to determine, neither you nor I can decide this for other people. I will go to great lengths to make it accessible,

but each person has to think it through themselves. And I'm going to come to the answer here it is. It was done this way so that it would get disseminated. This stuff is now in Spanish, Russian, Italian. People are translating to Check and Polish. You don't know quite what's going on. People in these countries are hungry. I get emails from people in India, in Sri Lanka. I've had one hundred and thirty eight different countries

be the source of inquiries to me. This stuff is finding its way, but it had to be worked for by the people, just for that kind of a thing that you and you know I was paraphrasing you when I said that people have to be forced to piece things together. We have to do it. We may disagree with the methodology, Well why didn't they do it

this way? Why didn't they? It was done this way based on their best assessment, as being quite removed from us, of how to approach us without disrupting us, without creating new gods, without creating wars, suicides, and psychosis. Here's the stuff that we really want you to have, if you will do your due diligence, and here's your payoff, Alejandro, if you will do your due diligence human beings of Earth, and you will see

and struggle through that. We've given this man all of this vitally important stuff, such as the red meteor warning that this thing is going to hit in eastern Europe on either twenty twenty nine or twenty thirty six, and you've got to deflect it. Don't blow it up. We're telling you specifically it's coming. You must deflect it with a nuclear device. I brought have a comic

strip about. We are trying to help you assure your future survival because you are going downhill and what is coming your way environmentally, which you have set up for decades human beings of Earth, is going to be overwhelming. And with your new Fukushima and your BT which have now gone away from your current attention focus, these are going to poison your food chain and pollute your planet. You forget about solar power and wind. You want answers. We are

telling you get about the business of working with deep geothermals. It is accessible. You will have far less difficulties going through your growing pains. And now people in Switzerland and Austria and others are starting on this because it is inexhaustible, there's no toxicity. You are too over populated to satisfy all of your needs with solar or wind or hydroelectric. Get geothermal. You will not run out of it for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. You need to

create a true international global justice system to handle these terrorists and wars. We have many things to offer you, but you have to first go through the painful process of realizing, yes, this information is real, it's accurate, it's prophetically accurate, so you will trust just enough to look at the rest, not to blindly believe it, but to consider our gift to you to help you to help yourselves, not to be abducted. We don't want your

DNA, we don't want to make babies with you. We want to help you, to help you to preserve yourselves because there are certain things coming that you will not be able to avoid and you need as much help because you can get it. And there it is all right, Well we are out of time. I want to thank you for coming. I hope you know,

thanks for being a sport and everything one thing any time. It's great that you are so open, and you know, you sent us these pictures that I think some people, including you know people here, we look at some of these and we're like, well, this does not help this case. It hurts the case. But you know, you're open to try to share everything that's out there, which is great. And hopefully we were able to organize the show because there's so much here. It's hard to organize this

stuff and I feel the pain that way. But they live dot com right, it's a website, yes, and you know Special Evidence Page A corroborated information, page press releases and sold there and anybody that doesn't find something I've referred to and wants it or wants to challenge it, time permitting, I respond to everybody. I'll be a little out of town for a couple of weeks, you know, be in Switzerland and London, Paris and stuff like

that. But I do get back and because you have been so damn gracious, and you've done this in a way that I frankly did not expect honestly, but you know, if you and I had met before, and you've always been just warm and open the you know, clear guy, I thank you. I'm available to do more on any of these if you want. I know there's a lot here. Yeah, we can keep forever on this,

I know could. And bottom line, there's the message. They want us to try to look and help ourselves out of some rough stuff coming. And that's it. That's my I try to prove the prophecies wrong. And no doubt we got rough stuff coming, that's for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you again anytime, and thank you, thank you so much. I hope you your voice gets better here. Hopefully we didn't mess it up

too much. Not at all, all right, thank you, mister Horn, and they fight it out comments where you can find the information he is referring to, although when you go to that page that y, there's not even links, it's just lists of the supposed claims. And it would be great to be able to get some more information there. Maybe he will in the future, Billy Meyer, real or not, it is up to you the listener. Thank you so much for listening yet again to Open Minds Radio.

Remember you can get all of this information, all of the stories that we talked about at openminds dot tv you stream or on YouTube. In a couple of days, you'll be able to watch the video and see some of the pictures that we talked about. Everything he sent us we put in that video. So he is very gracious and very helpful in sending us a lot of pictures. A nice guy, mister hone Horn. Anyway, thanks for joining us. Don't forget to join us next week. Talk to you later.