Hello, and welcome to Open Minds Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and with me, as always is Jason from Potato Land McClellan. I'm actually on the moon. Oh you are. Yeah, let's say it's let's say it's the moon today. It'll be something different next week. Okay, from the moon. Are you looking at the aliens up there? Tell us what you see. Well, I've got some very nice any alien family making dinner for me right now. Another one is fighting over which show goes
on the CV. Yes, very much like us, Alejandro. Awesome. Well, uh that is appropriate because there was a television show on the Sci Fi Channel recently called Aliens on the Moon and Mark d' antonio was on it and he is our guest today. That is very fitting. Yay. So he is the photo and video analyst for Moufon. We talked to him about Upho tog project, you know, just because this is kind of my update. We're doing a lot of updates right now, so updating people on UPHO
TOG. This is the exciting project where he and Doug Trumbull, the special effects Legend, are trying to create these portable UFO observation units that collect a lot of telemetry and data to tell more about UFOs, And we also talked to him about the UFOs on the Moon television show and what he really felt about the Moon photos and things like that, and some of the cool stuff that he did for him that they left out. So cool interview. Very
cool stuff they're doing. Yeah, very cool, very cool. It's very cool on the Moon from what I understand. How's the weather, It depends. It fluctuates here and there. M depends on what region you're in and whether or not you're underground. It's a little more chilly than what you're used to out here in the Phoenix area, though I assume anything feels chilly compared
to Phoenix. That's true. So what's not going to be chilly is this weekend at Contact in the desert, where it's going to be scorching hot, and I'll be doing a talk out there. Hopefully don't get rained out always it's supposed to rain. We are in monsoon season, and I know we just got slammed both in Phoenix and Las Vegas, the whole Southwest. Big systems moving in right now. So wow, next weekend, my fingers will be crossed for you, buddy. Yeah, we'll see what happens, Tom.
But that should be a good time. Yeah, that should be fun, all right. But before we get to talking to Mark about the moon, let's talk about UFO news, which is something you and I like to discuss every week, Senior McClellan, and so let me have it. What's
your favorite UFO story of the week? Man. We've been getting so many great reports from move On, from mister Roger Marsh that he's posting on Open mindsot TV, and I just want to highlight one here quickly that a lot of the stories that come in a lot of UFO reports don't have photos included with them because the witness didn't have a chance to take photos of the object when they saw it. But there was one that the incident occurred on August
first, and this happened in the city in the southwest of Ukraine. Now, this guy, he was outside in the morning on his balcony at six point thirty in the morning and he saw this object and he had the opportunity to take two photographs of it, and the photos were about about six seconds apart. It managed to take I think five photos in total. But in
these photos that he captured are a very strange looking object. Now, the photos aren't that great of resolution, as is unfortunately usually the case with a lot of UFO photographs, but it's an oddly strange object the shape of it and the appearance. And I like these photos, Alejandro, Yeah, I
think they're not too bad. Like you said, they are not the highest resolution, but it's not immediately obvious what is in the photos, which is often the case, like for instance, he submitted Roger marsh Remoufon submitted one that we posted last week, just a day or two prior, over Hurst Castle in California. Now that I'm pretty sure is a bird per se, right, I think I share your opinion on that, because there's another bird
in the photo. The colors, even though you can't see this thing's wings, the colors are exactly the same as the other bird in the photo. I think it's probably just in a flap, so its wings are down, so it looks kind of like a lens shaped object. So that's what I think that is. But when you look at these pictures in the Ukraine, you can't really make out what that might be. So I think these are
pretty interesting pictures and He had another interesting description of this object. He said that he didn't hear any noise from the object, and he described a discharge of air like plasma around the object. That's interesting and it's it's hard to visualize what exactly he means by that, but that is one darn interesting sighting. Alejandro. Yeah, pretty cool one, pretty cool one. And I want to cheat and talk about one more thing. Oh, hey, you're
cheating. You don't cheat often. I'm pulling an Aleandro. I've got to you, just do. I'm excited about this. Well, don't get too excited. I just want to throw out a little bit of entertainment news here. I know there are many fans of the popular internet meme Giorgio Sucolos from Ancient Aliens, and he's on a new TV show. I haven't heard too much about this, but it's on H two, the same network as Ancient
Aliens, and this show he's on is called In Search of Aliens. And anybody who's familiar with Ancient Aliens and specifically Georgio Suclos knows that he tries to well, he doesn't try. He does attribute absolutely everything to extraterrestrials, no matter what it is extraterrestrials are responsible for it, and that is sort of the premise of this show, and that he searches the world. He goes around the world exploring mysteries, popular mysteries, and tries to find evidence to
support that extraterrestrials. There's some sort of extraterrestrial connection. So if anybody's doing that in a show, I guess Georgia is the perfect guy for the job, right, Yeah, because he will find the et connection. Oh, he will. Regardless of anything that's right, he will find it. Yes, So yeah, I would love to hear from anybody who's seen this show to see what people are thinking about it. But Giorgio's got a new show. Just thought i'd passed that alone. Yeah, I wonder I have.
The only person I've heard from is someone who's kind of a skeptic, you know, someone who's into UFOs and does I think the phenomenon is interesting and a valid one. But and he didn't have much positive to say about the show. But yeah, I'd like to hear from others. Yeah, I see what people think. It's an interesting concept. I do like exploring and entertaining the possibilities. But I would hope in doing that that it would be
objective. And you know they do go and talk with scientists, witnesses, and experts, but I have a feeling, this is just my assumptions here, that they only show people who further and enhance and support that theory or the evidence that could possibly suggest that something has an extraterrestrial connec. I would like to see also talking to the scientists, witnesses and experts who don't necessarily agree with that theory, so you have both sides, so you can see
both sides of the arguments and take the evidence for what it's worth. Yeah, that would be nice if they did that, but they don't. But they don't. All right, those are my stories that I cheated with this
week. All right, Yeah, you know what, I think I'll bring up the big one because I want to hear what you have to say about this one too, because maybe the biggest sighting last week, or the one that made the biggest news, was one that happened last weekend, not this recent weekend, but the one prior, and that was in Toronto, where a bunch of people tweeted pictures of UFOs or posted those on YouTube. There were some videos as well, and some interesting It seemed like a string of
UFOs across this kind of suburb of Toronto. It's actually a section that is inside of the more urban area of Toronto called North York. But yeah, it's kind of interesting. All of the sightings were centered around this park and supposedly there might have been and people suggested this. Police even suggested this, but it wasn't for sure that there were kites night kites being flown in this park. There were many people who saw it. There were police officers who
saw it. Some of those one of those police officers actually tweeted that he saw it and he said, oh my gosh, this is the first time I've actually gotten a UFO report. And this guy was serious and he laughed about it, kind of was making fun of it. He then tagged it quad copter. Him and other police that these things might be, you know, drones or something like that, but they are in a line across the
city. Now, because they're in a line across the city, I at first thought maybe they are Chinese lanterns, because when you float those, you know, you usually do a few and the wind takes them and they're in a line However, they do seem to glisten with different colors, multiple colors.
One of the ladies said she saw like this light coming down off of it that kind of looked like she said, sparkling diamond would just fit with the kites, because a lot of these kites will have some string or some lights along the string, and I posted a picture of an example of that. So I don't know. I get the filling these are something terrestrial because the lights kind of look led ish, but I don't know what At this point, I personally don't know that I have figured out exactly what this is.
What do you think you did you look at some of that stuff? I will echo your I don't know at this point, but at the same time also agree with you that I'm leaning towards some sort of terrestrial object illuminated by LED lights, multi colored led lights, and the fact that the two
elements there the in a line and really centered around a park. Those are really strong signals that it's most likely something like heights with LEDs, but they are interesting in appearance, and I think it's amazing and really cool with deciding that so many people did see these things and post about it and I hope we start seeing more of that, because a lot of times there are really interesting objects in the sky and we'll hear about it from one person who managed
to take a picture. And you know, that's unusual because if it was that object in a big city, you would think a lot of people would have seen it and reported it, and that's not always the case. But this one, you're right. There were so many people posting about it, and I love that police officer who posted that they saw. Yeah, that was funny. So many people tweeting and including a police officers, which is
pretty cool. But yeah, I'm a key park. I put up a map with our story so you can see where the park is in relation to the different sightings that were reported, and you can see they were all within a few blocks. But the images are really interesting and the video is really interesting. So that one's still out there. We'll see if we hear more.
I don't know that we will hear more, but really, there were stories all last week about it, but nothing really added to the story, nor did it appear as though there is much in the way of investigation going on, so any further than what the cops saying. Kind of blowing it off, so we'll see if there's any more. But that was an interesting, big story from the week, and a big story for us. Just to kind of cheat myself because I always do. I won't get two into
it, but it's a really interesting story. Post by Mike Clellan. He wrote a story where he interviewed a lot of abduction specialists and kind of wrote how they feel that if you see a UFO, especially one really close up, how they feel most likely you have been abducted by aliens. So kind of a controversial opinion of course and topic, but an interesting story which a lot of people are reading and find it intriguing, so people will have to
check that out as well. And I'm excited that Mike wrote this for us. And we're getting so many great submissions to the side. We're getting a lot of really good content on the website lately, so thank you everybody who's submitting content. We really appreciate that. And a lot of interesting reads there,
yeah, a lot of great stuff. So you know, Mike felt that we should cover a little bit more in the way of abductions and stuff like that, and of course we're mostly following me and tw stream media and we do when when they write something, but as he argues in this story, they don't always write something. So as long as people are you know, writing a journalistic story that they're trying to be balanced and report news, you know, we're more than happy to post it. So he wrote a
great story. So that was a lot of fun. So yes, thank you to the po to the submitters, and you can read all of this at Openminds dot TV. Yes, yes you can. All Right, anything else to say, Jason before you are off for the week. That is it for me and I'm going to go leap and bound across the moon. Okay, good, good, and just for you so you know, and for the rest of the guests. Next week, we're actually going to get updates from Ruben Uriarte on New Mexico UFOs because he comes and lets us know
about that and he's got a new book out. And then we're also going to get Frank Kimbler soon because people have been asking about those metals to talk about that, So we got lots of updates coming up. Excellent. I like both of those guys. Yeah, awesome, But first let's get updates from Mark D'Antonio. I am very happy to have Mark D'Antonio on the phone. Hello, Hey, how are you Eejandro, Thanks for having me.
Good and actually this shows later in the week because unfortunately we had some technical difficulties the last time we tried this, but things seem to be working okay now exactly it was probably all my fault. It was see, no, it wasn't. But so Mark, Mark is you are move On's UFO Photo
and Video Analysis however, and we'll talk to some about that. However, something that you did recently, at least at the move On symposium, is you did a presentation with the the CG special effects guru, Doug Trumbull about UPHO TAG this new project that you're working on. Yeah. Yeah, Doug is a traditional visual effects artist, you know. His first project he was working on was two thousand and one of Space Odyssey with Stanley Kubrick. It
was his first job. One of my absolute favorites. It's a crazy movie. I didn't understand it as a little kid watching it, but I loved all the spaceships and the special effects kept my attention and a lot of really interesting things that Doug tells you in the behind the scenes for just that one movie, a little effects that he came up with. For instance, when
Haywood Floyd the Professor. For those who watched the movie, there's a scene where this scientist is traveling either to the space station or to the Moon, and he falls asleep and there's a flight attendant who comes in and there's a pen that came out of his pocket and it's floating through the sky, floating through the cabin, and she just reaches over and plucks it out of the
air and puts it back in his pocket. Well, when the movie was made in nineteen sixty six and sixty seven and released, like I guess in sixty eight or so, they didn't have a lot of the same computer type special effects that we have today that would have made that a no brainer to do. So Doug came up with this really cool special effect. It's ingenious way to make a pen float in the air, no strings, no nothing, And it wasn't underwater. That's one that we've heard a lot when people
have asked me. Yeah, it was actually a six foot diameter circular pane of glass and he took contact tape and he just made the pen stick to it ever so slightly, and then they rolled the glass slowly on some rollers in front of the camera, and when they did that, they're looking actually through the glass and filming the scene, and it looks like you're seeing the actual tool pen floating in mid air and the flight attendant just plucks right off
the glass. But it's so amazing because that looks so real. I mean, I've that particular scene. I've tried to figure out how the heck they did it, and I could never I mean, I thought it might be a string, but they did so well with the movement. Yeah, you know, and Doug see so. In other words, many times the solution that presents itself is the simplest one, but requires the most incredible mind to see it. You know, we always we over complicate our lives every single
day. You know, the UFO business is kind of like that too. You know a lot of people really over complicated. They look for things that may or may not be there and say, of things that are naturally there
that these aren't supposed to be there. You know, certain artifacts on the Moon, for instance, that could serve have been created naturally, they will adamantly claim, for instance, that they are not naturally occurring, that they were in fact put there by aliens, but they have absolutely no basis for you know, the statements. There are some things that look strange and those are the things we should investigate. But you know, so we see this
all over the place. Sometimes we tend to overcomplicate and overthink a lot of things, you know, But in the UFO arena, you know, one of the things that Doug and I hit on years ago. I've been working with Doug Knapp for about five years, and that is that we saw and we both understood, and this is kind of what brought us together that whenever there was a UFO case, in many of the cases, you only have
one or two photos of the event, and they're usually pretty bad. When you have any photos at all, video these days is likely a cell phone video and you're at the mercy of the resolution of that particular camera. So we both realized there's gotta be another way. Well, unbeknownst to me, years before I met Doug, he created uphatog, which is the combination of
the words UFO and photography. So UFO TG. Well Youphatog was a vehicle, actually a hum V vehicle with an opening roof and a hydraulic lift that would lift five or six different types of telescopes and detectors out and search the skies and not look just for that one photo, but for say a picture of it in night vision, a picture of it in a visual spectrum fully visual spectrum, a picture of it maybe in the infrared, or a magnetic
disturbance, or you know, a variety of corroborating data. And that's the thing that we never get with UFO cases. The problem with Uphatog is you Patog was one vehicle, and a very expensive one at that. If I told you how much you know, time, effort, and money, in particular the tug put into this, you would just be astounded. But and it's not. It's like a real hound, a real military version, roof taken out of it. Luckily I got to be in that presentation you did
with the board, and he showed these pictures. But and I think he has that video online right where people can go look at it on his website. Yeah, and and in the interest of time, I didn't show that video at the board meeting, but yeah, yeah, So what I did was in that presentation, what I was showing the board was the successor to you photograph something that we can all get our arms around and our wallets, because this is something that's really important, and this show is not about asking
anyone for money. We're actually gonna get it funded in a different way altogether. We're not looking for public funding as a matter of fact. But this system is now a much smaller design. When I came on board, I said to Doug, I want to create something that will do you photog's job, but you know, just one twentieth of the size, a twenty fifth of the size. And he looks at me and raises an eyebrown and says, we'll have had it. So I did, and I came up with
a number of designs. I came up with a design for a land based system and an ocean based system, and the one in the ocean looks for us, oh, it was in our design evolution. And the one on the land of courses for any aerial phenomena. But so our smaller units now can take advantage of new technology, new cameras, new equipment of all kinds, and we can leverage that and create a much smaller platter, as we
call, and they're about the size of a large serving dish. In our and art designs currently, and they're going to have a camera that can see infrared, ultra violet visual light. We're going to have magnetic disturbance magnetic nominally detector. I didn't want to say it MAD, but yeah, because MAD connotes something slightly different than what we're doing. But but it is something we
have. Right. So when we talked about, you know, magnetic anomalies, well, hey, you know, part of the problem is if we see a bad photo that we even take ourselves with our new system, if that bad photo of this thing going across the sky is also along with data that shows a rapid change in the magnetic field as it's going by, or there may be some strange electrical charge getting on our platter, you know,
hitting our platter from this as it goes by. That's you see, not just an airplane or a light in the sky like a satellite might be. It's something else, and that's where we want to go. We want to get that corroborating data. But the key is we need a lot of these. Now. The hum V was one vehicle. What I've got and what Doug and I are proposing is that we're actually going to create hundreds, if not thoul of these mass produced systems that will allow us to get this data.
And I've come up with a layout plan that so far has gone uncontested by anyone in the UPHATAG team where we're trying to it will come up with the best thing. And right now I think that this this will work, and that is we lay them out in threes in a triad like an equilateral triangle, and the leg between each you know, vertex of the triangle where each of these three platters would be in each triad. The length of that can vary, and then we're playing with half a mile initially, maybe one
hundred yards for testing. But the idea is the farther apart they are within to a certain you know limit, practical limit, the better the data will be that we can acquire. Because the larger the base line or the distance between any two platters in this tri angle set up, the better our calculation can be, the more accurate the calculation can be. Now, I know people can do this, you know, with a four foot separation, you
can do this triangulation. But you want to try and get away from using this small angle business that can really just be at best an approximation, we actually want to make a real calculation. So let's just do for us, say we have three in the triad. One of the units, the top one in the triangle, sees something the first thing it does. Because they each also have communications systems on board. I say, this is if they
exist. This is our design I'm talking about. In the design, each of these has a six mile range radio on it, and that radio communicates with another one in the triad in its same triad and says do you see this? And it will either respond ac or knack you know, yes I have, or no I don't. And if it doesn't, it's going to
receive the pointing direction for where it needs to focus and look. Now, the cameras are all around this platter, so it's going to see the whole sky all at once, so there's no moving parts, so it's just going to decide which cameras on board are going to be looking. Now, technically, if it can be seen, then the other system will have probably seen
it. But if it's something coming into view, then the other system you see can prepare to acquire it and know where it's going to be based on what the other one is telling it because the other one can tell it where it sees it by a radial line. You know, in the distances case, it's at this number of you know, it's at this bearing okay, and elevation in degrees from me right now. M hm. Well, the other unit knows how to calculate where that would be for it, and so
to look for it as well, and if they pick it up. Now we have two all right, and we have four or five or six instruments on each platter, so we have operating data from the originating detector location, and then we'll have secondary information that will allow us to do full triangulation altitude, speed, distance, all that. So, and we've talked to you about UFO TAG in the past. However, what you've got now is you're much further down the road in that you've created kind of this mock up,
but you've also begun to identify specific technologies. So, for instance, when it comes to the cameras you kind of touched on this earlier, but now instead of looking for multiple cameras that acquire multiple different types of wavelengths, you're looking at the possibility and the technologies here right where we can collect a large amount of wavelengths with just one camera or one type of camera. Yeah, and of course that's that that's a multi spectral system, a multi spectral camera,
and that is in fact what we're looking at. We're actually talking now. I'm getting emails fast and furious every day between our lead scientists and Doug and myself, and we're and the lead scientists saying, okay, I found this camera chip. The makers say that we're we're like way ahead of where they are, and Doug is saying, does that matter, And the scientist says, no, we'll we'll bring them where they have to go. And they're saying we can get there. Yeah that our lead scientists are saying,
it's no problem getting there. I'll do it. Just give me the opportunity to do it, and then you guys can have the product that we come up with and go off and be merry and market it. We just want to create these new cameras and you know, we're happy to do it for you. You know. So there's a lot of there's a lot of opportunity here for development of new technology. H And you know you saw it in
the in the quad co during Drone World. You know, as soon as they started doing one or two little prototypes, you know, like the one we created in our in our drone business here, then all of a sudden it explodes and the next thing you know, there's two or three hundred different kinds of platforms you can buy and autopilots that are smarter and faster and more incredible than they were just a year and a half ago. So there's a
lot going on in these technology industries that allow us to leverage this. So six months from now, these companies that are saying that we're too advanced for them are going to say, you know, hey, we've got what you're looking for. But we might be saying back to them, yeah we did that, and we're we're another thing now. Well hopefully not so you can get to the actual production stage. But what I mean is we we're not
going to let them hold us back right right. You know, we're trying to get all the development kits from these companies to try and to develop our camera systems without any flack or without any concern about you know, who owns what and all that. We just want to get the technology done and we'll give it to them when we're done. You know that. That's we're certainly
gonna share it. We have no problem with that. And the bottom line is a multi spectral system is an absolute requirement because imagine if you would you get a video recording, say, or even a still shot taken of the night sky on this on this fast system. It has to be fast. That's a whole other issue we're have to deal with. But and suppose you get this image. Now you look at it and individual light image, it just looks like a white blob. It's all right. However, imagine if
you would you got a you know, a slider on the screen. You just slide that thing to the right and you get your infrared view because that data just basically it's like a sliding window. You're just sliding across the full data and saying, okay, show me the infrared data. And as you slide back and forth between infrared and ultra violet, you can actually see all the profiles for that individual data, you know, showing up in the image
itself. You actually see the ultra violet image, the visual light image, a mix of ultra violet and visual or all the way to the ultra or infrared and seeing just that or a mix right the near infrared with the visual you know, how does that look? Yeah, so there's some in some cases where people believe they've been able to capture a craft and infrared but not in the scene wavelengths wavelengths of light we see, So you'd be able to
prove that mm hmm. Yeah. See remember this, this this whole project is about finding a smoking gun, and there's a lot of smoking guns. Yeah, technologies are in play by alien civilizations. For instance, if string theory is proven to be workable and fully believable, I believe ittually satisfies a lot of criteria that can fix problems with our standard model that we use in
physics. I believe that string theory probably can provide a number of propulsion technologies that would take us sort of well dimensionally, so to speak, allowing the quote unquote warp drive Star Trek fame to actually exist. Now, you know, warp drive started a science fiction to most people. What's not really understood is that the concept of warp drive was around well before Star Trek and Rodenberry was a smart man. Okay. The idea of warp drive was the the
the space fabric of space and time, which no one understand stands. When people say fabric of space time, what the heck is fabric? What do you mean fabric? You know, people don't get that, and I can totally buy that. It's a really bad analogy that's made its way into into you know, popular culture. But space is well, space is composed of structure, and that structure is defined mathematically. That mathematical structure is what we
call all the fabric of space time. And when we say that it's a fabric, that's just a metaphor to help us understand what the heck we are talking about. It's really even to the to the most powerful theoretical astrophysicist, you know, the fabric of space time is still an anomaly. You know, we don't really understand fully how, for instance, we could create a warp bubble to make the warp drive a reality. What's worse is, and I'm gonna get to this because it has a lot to do with you photography,
which is this system we're talking about. What's worse is when you consider how a warp drive would actually work with an understanding of space time, the interesting thing that you notice is is that your ship would immerse itself in a warp bubble. It's called imagine that as a sphere of influence around which the warp drive system will affect. And instead of you accelerating and moving through space,
you're sitting relatively still and the universe is speeding by you. Now, that doesn't mean everybody on Earth is going to feel as tremendous as acceleration. And say, whoa Captain Ross has taken off in his ship again, you know, no, that's not how it works, you know. But because again you have to understand relativity in Einstein, you know, it's only operating
on the frame within which those people are in the warp bubble. So it's you know, all intuition is left at the door when you walk into the world of space time, you know, And and the space time's house is full of all kinds of inconsistent, strange, paradoxical things, and thinking that just isn't normal for any rational human being. That's how I look at it. But that all said, that type of activity traveling through space time has consequences in our space. Our space is the X y Z all moving through
time the dimensions of our universe. Now, in our universe we can only travel the speed of light, and we'll see that light's the fastest. No speed, we can't physically travel the speed of light. There's a lot of reasons and a lot of limitations. But if we can get out of that dimensional space and travel in another set of dimensions, we're not constrained by these
restraints. That sounds like science fiction, it's not. But that all said in the UPHATONPHO system, when we set up, one of the smoking guns we want to look for is gamma radiation. Now why would we want to look for gamma rays? I mean, gamma rays are a naturally occurring radiation that occurs and the high energy discharge that it can be seen or a black
holes that give off gamma rays. There are other galaxies that are giving off gamma rays and and there are sometimes you see gamma ray bursters, which are these anomalous objects with spew massive, copious amounts of gamma rays and in in lighthouse speaking directions, you know, and if any of those struck us, they could kill us. And it's thankfully for the size of the universe it hasn't happened yet. So gamma rays are a very powerful particle array. Or
array rather radiation. Now it's a smoking gun because my new gamma ray radiation will be given off if an alien civilization is using a spacecraft that utilizes a propulsion methodology that is born out of a string theory like you know, hypothesis or other ultra dimensional civilization. Huh, well, it's it's it's it's very possible. I mean, there's a lot of ways to go with this, you know. But but what we're looking for is anything tangi in our dimensional
space. Because our instruments, of course, only look within our dimensional space. We only have our dimensions to peak at. But there is evidence that there is a tangible bleed from other dimensions into ours that can be detectable. There could be a magnetic anomaly, a gravitational No gravity doesn't you know, I mean, in the world of string theory theory, gravity doesn't exist on
our membrane. It's in another place, you know. And so if gravity is affected, that means something is working with gravity to change gravity locally. That's a huge finding. And so if we've found that that the gravity changed locally while this white dot went through the sky, which otherwise would just be a potential satellite or airplane. That's huge. So what would you use? Do you have plans to measure gravity? Well, actually, geologists do it
all the time, you know. They they actually do mapping and they actually map the gravitational fields of the Earth and the changing gravity of the Earth. Because but are you uphotog unit's gonna tie into that information or is that data you look up afterwards? Well, it's it's one of these things where we're gonna have to let that one unfold. We already know how to handle the
magnetic anomaly question, we know how to handle the EMF burst questions. Okay, but the you know, a gravity sensor and something that can detect the local changes in gravity. We just know that this is something we want. That's actually when I did the presentation for the Mutual UFO network board, I put on the bottom of the list of the main things you want to put on each of these platters, I put, you know, more to come.
Well, a gravity sensor is one of those into more to come, and that would probably be a phase to implementation because whatever's out there now is going to be large and cumbersome. We want something small and tiny, and small and tiny doesn't mean it's less capable, but it still has a power requirement. We have to figure out what that is. We have to figure out how we would actually you know, start logging a change, because if you think about it, we might not see anything visually. We might only
get a magnetic anomaly change followed by a massive gravitational shift locally. So those sensors then would have to have been online twenty four to seven in order to pick that up. So you see, we have power issues too that we're working out, and a lot of one of the guys that's actually on the team is someone who actually deals with power systems, and so this is something that would probably fall squarely in his left yeah, because it seems like,
you know, one of the dangers the project runs into his scope. Creep creep is you know what they you know, the corporate term where there's a lot of cool stuff you can do. But at least for phase one, you're going to have to decide, here's the set of telemetry we want to gather. We've got to set this and move towards that to actually move to a prototype exactly right, And we've we've done that, you know, our our our first prototype is going to have a multi spectral camera that's going to
have communications array for talking to the other platters and US. We have an alert system that already works, which is, you know, it sends an alert up to GPS satellites. The GPS satellites relay that to everybody's smartphone on the team or whoever is designated in the field to receive alerts from the UH from the platters. That's already in play, and it's a system in use by hikers who hike the remote wilderness and people that sail around the world alone.
It's called SPOT you know, like a really bad dog name, you know, a SPOT, and it's it is and it's a really nice unit because we can actually kind of make it remote and what we can modify it to actually use it for our purposes so that anytime and see something and can send an immediate alert to us and then we'll know which unit it was UH
and we'll get a summary of what it saw. Cool. So yeah, and so move On's participation is going to be essentially they've got boots on the ground all over the country and there'll be some training yet you will be able to do so they can help retrieve that data is that what you're looking for
from MOFON. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing is, you know, MOFON has to get something out of it too, you know, and we're very very sensitive to that and hopefully, you know, if the board does agree to allow us to move forward within move on with the project then and they all loved it, they all thought it was great. So I think that if there are any concerns, I'm sure we can work them out. So I'm very positive that we're going to move forward with the Mutual UFO
network. But one other thing that's important is, you know what happens when we get data. You know, when we get data, where's it go? Does it go into lockdown? Does it go only to one person? How are we going to handle that? Well, my feeling is and Doug has expressed a similar interest. The first thing that has to happen is that everybody who is part of the project has to see the data first. Now move On's part of the project, they have to see the data as well.
So we're certainly not going to be hiding any data. We're not going to hide data from the public. If we find something that's really interesting, we have to first vet it. We have to make sure that this is real data, not a machine anomaly. We have to get peer review, just in the real science world. You know, when I wrote a thesis on on on stars running away from the galaxy at high speed, you know, I couldn't just go ahead and write it and be done with it,
you know, and then go ahead and publish that. I actually had to, you know, have peer reviews, so I had people in the field have to read the paper and say, yes, that's that's true. Okay, that's justifiable data, Yes that's correct, or well this study didn't actually show that conclusively. You're gonna have to use a different approach. Okay, you know, things like that, because that's what peer review is all about. You have to get right. Is this a study that you got published
in a peer review journal? Or oh god, it was in nineteen eighty three, it was Wow, it was it was yeah, it was my for my astronomy. Yeah yeah, oh gotcha. So yeah, I know, huh see how old I am? Yeah, very well. I told you I joined moufon in nineteen seventy one. I was just a little kid at the time. I was not even that, but I know you weren't you were. You look good for your age. That's a good thing. Oh, thank you. So, how how close do you think you are
to a working proto type we have? We have a few we're thinking about getting this camera. If we can get the first multi spectral system done in the next three months or so, then that's a huge, huge piece. We have a gamma ray detector already. We have a transponder decoder technology available to us, which will allow us to immediately eliminate aircraft because they admit frequencies that can be detected and literally, you know, identify the aircraft that's type,
its altitude. Not every aircraft has that same particular technology, but there are squawks coming from every aircraft. You have to have a transponder, and we can detect those transponders, so we'd be able to hear that and exclude those. But if something odd happens, say an airplane is flying over the desert and it goes down for whatever reason, our system would be able to
record that that was an odd behavior. That's the goal. Would report it and we would look at it and see that there was a transponder that suddenly stopped or whatever, and now we can report you know officially what happened to someone who can actually go investigate. Interesting. So yeah, there's there's there's benefits, you know, you know, that's that's more of a remote,
obviously extreme one. One of the better ones is, you know, these systems will probably see every single media that comes in and you know, over the over them, you know, within a certain distance, so between two units, if two units see the same meteor, then we can get a complete triangulation of the altitude and the speed that it was moving. So there's a whole lot of really cool data we can you know, contribute to the meteor community before we ever see a UFO. And we'll see we'll see a
lot of meteas before we see any UFO. So I'm sure that's cool. And it is I think I mentioned before even in your talk. Is it the University of New Mexico that has some sort of similar system that you've been able to kind of mirror work with for that purpose? Well, actually that the University New Mexico SkyWatch system is brilliant. It's an absolutely wonderful system. And I am going to talk to those people. I have yet to talk to them. I know that I know at the University of New Mexico.
There's people at University of New Mexico that came to me and said, hey, we'd like to participate. Let us know what we can do. Now, whether they're part of the SkyWatch or not, I'm not sure. And I went back to look at my notes about that because I thought it might have been from the same program. But I don't have any note to that effect, so I might have been convoluting the two myself and my chattered brain.
But that said, I think that it's important to understand that anyone that already has a network of linked systems out there like this is important to talk to. And I think their system is one that I think everybody should get on board and support if they have it, because they really have a great idea and I think it's absolute brilliance. We're using a little bit of a
different tactic because our systems aren't all sky cameras. Our systems are looking at all sky but with individual cameras because we need more resolution, a little better ability to track and measure, you know, where things are on these frames and so forth, and all sky camera necessarily will have some kind of distortion, you know, that has to be corrected, and then it can be corrected. But I just don't like the whole fish eye look, you know
what I mean. So we want to have as many cameras as it takes to get a nice flat field view of the sky, and then produce them cheaply enough so that we can put as many as we need. Now, my prototype that I showed you a picture of that we produced and not produced, but engineered as a computer generated rendering to illustrate it. It looks kind of like an Adamski UFO. I know, you said that, Yeah, I know, and you maybe roll my eyes with that, you know when
you said that. But but that's okay. You know, it's kind of funny that that our platters are actually sort of a nod to the UFO community of themselves. Yeah, and it's really kind of cool too that, you
know. We just finished a movie that premiered in Seattle through really great fan fear, and the movie was called Euphatogue, and it was actually a science fiction movie about a scientist who creates a system to look for aliens using electronic devices that we've always been talking about, okay, and it uses the original you photogh system in the movie as the units by which this scientist did his research. It's really clever. What's interesting is during the making of the real
movie, we were actually working on the real thing in the background. Well, and how can people see that movie too? Or they yeah, no, they'll they'll be able to because Doug just got a hold of a theater in Los Angeles that's actually gonna start showing this. We showed it the in the seventy millimeters cinerama screen. There's only one of three cinerama theaters I think left in the United States in Seattle a few months ago, and a lot of fairly high end people showed up for that from uh, you know,
the film industry, and we were really pleased to see them. And then in Los Angeles we'll get even more because down there that's the that's their stomping ground, that's their territory. They'll be able to make the trip, you know, without having to to, you know, say I'm sorry, I can't make it. They'll it's right there. Cool. Hopefully I can make the trip for that. I think you will. I think we will. I mean it's a I think it's a Remember what theater was I can't remember
the actual name of the theater. But bottom line is Doug setting up a whole bunch of premieres for it out there with a variety of different groups, including some public groups of course too, and you know, maybe we'll do some talks or whatever. I'm not sure how he wants to approach that yet because it's still in the planning stages, but it'd be really interesting to see
it all come together well out there as well. Yeah. What was really cool too about seeing Doug Trumbull him being such a legend, because I mean, you know, Blade Runner, Close Encounters. Yeah, these are two thousand and one. These are like my absolute favorite movies. If you're gonna ask me in the list my five favorite movies, those are three of them right there. Yeah. So, and he's worked on him, but it's cool to see how committed he is to this topic and this project. I
mean, he is really into it. Yeah, he really is. And you know, when we were down at the move On conference, you know, I told Doug, I said, look, we should present this to the board. I think now's the time, and he agreed. So I went down on Thursday and I had I had to teach a field investigative training. So I taught my nice segment there and then Doug joined me on Friday and we did our board presentation and then we we actually left Saturday morning.
He went back, I went back. I left a little later. But but what's interesting is Doug is exceedingly committed to this because, you know, although he just he's never seen a UFO. Excuse me, he he really wants to, you know. Yeah, yeah, he's built to do it. Yeah yeah, well no, he's he's just he's like, he's like me in the following way. We can look at the universe and look up you and I and and say we can't be alone. We know we can't
be alone. We can also look up there and say, well, I can you actually calculate the likelihood of there being planets out there that they're like ours? And of course that was the famous Drake equation. However, the Drake equation has now been completely rewritten. There is a new Drake equation, and the new take puts the number of Earth like planets right now, just in our own galaxy at around twenty billion. Okay, yeah, that's Earth
like planets. Now, what's understood by nearly all scientists in this field is that there are more planets in the universe and stars, and we know there's billions of stars, so planets typically have been sort of ignored. Yet we have a whole retinue of them circling our Sun, and we, for some reason throughout history have never found that to be compelling enough to say that there must be billions and billions of planets just nearby us, and in fact there
are. So we are moving into this age when we're actually gonna be able to detect other life forms. Probably maybe within one hundred years, we'll find another Earth with life on it. Perhaps Doug is one of these renaissance people that understands this, and he wants to try and shortcut the search for those of those life forms that might have found us first. And we want to do that, and that's we all want to do that in the UFO. Yah course, pretty cool. So I'm going to change topics now. Sure,
I got more stuff I want to talk to you about. You alluded to this earlier, but you were recently on a show on side By talking about aliens on the moon, and I don't think that have you seen it yet? I still haven't seen you haven't seen it. Well, I think that I could tell, knowing you that they kind of left a lot out. They kind of said, had you showing oh this is interesting, this
is interesting, but they left out I think this is interesting. But not to say, though, that you thought you demunked all of them, or you you, I shouldn't say that that were making you so sensitive to the word it's okay, yeah, but not to say that you explained away all of them, because you did find some interesting. But I guess that was my point, and I should ask that in the question did you find some of them genuinely interesting? And what about the others? Yeah? In short,
yes I did. And you know, as a as a researcher, I can tell you that it's one of those cases where when you look at data, the first thing you want to do is find the original data, the original frames, original negatives, or an original print from the original negative, et cetera. We didn't have that. I was shown one image, and in this particular show, a lot of the data came from a book
on unknown lunar objects or something like that identified lunar objects. Oh really, So they brought this book to here and said, what do you think of this picture? What do you think of that picture? Well, and not in so many words, but they used pictures that came from this particular book. Yeah, and the main focus of the show was on this one particular
person's book of these lunar anomalies. Now, I've never really followed lunar anomalies because in my history, you know, I see the world at high and low frame rates because of the film industry. I see the world in terms of light and shadow, and how light and shadow can be used to convey an illusion in the visual effects arena. So when I see something in a lunar image that looks like, say, a giant bridge going across a vast valley, you know, I look at that and say, well, wait
a minute, how would I recreate that? Because that's my whole thing now, you know. I used to just do analysis and then say I think this is what it is. Well that's hardly any good. So what I do now is I'm a little bit more complete. Now I actually do it. I recreate these things. If I see it and I think it's something natural, I'll recreate it if I can. And I do this now on
so many cases. And then and it's like with time I barely have I'll do this, and I still have to because it really is very helpful to see this. So for the giant lunar bridges, for instance, I had created this simulated lunar surface. It's composed of several three or four different materials that are layered together just like the real lunar surface. You know, where
there's a really fine layer on the top. That's the pulverized dust over the eons and eons and eons of meteor strikes throwing up and smashing things into tiny, tiny particles. Of course, the biggest rocks stick out of that regulith and that soil, and it really looks, you know, like a jumbled mass down there. But on top of all of these are the little tiny
particles of dust. So I recreated this and basically if I were to drop clay balls, and I do this as the experiment, if I drop clay balls into the these this regular I've made in my sample glass walled system that I made, then you actually see a crater form exactly the same way as a crater forms on the Moon. And I can simulate weathering with the system by using a vibration thing to actually vibrate the table and then you see it
weather right down over the centuries of moonquakes and other impacts causing things to shake and dislodge, and you actually create very realistic features. So one of the things I created was this lunar bridge. Now you might think, well, wow, that'd be pretty fragile for this bridge to be supported by a little model like you're making. It's made a lot of soil type material. Well, the fact is it's extremely strong, and the reason is because it's not
a bridge at all. It's actually two parallel valleys and the sun is at a low angle all right, And you see I mentioned glass wall. That's because we changed the angle of the sunlight on this so you can and see how the features change with the light. And so at low sun angles, there is a large valley, all right, and then another valley right next to it. In between the two valleys is a ridge connecting them. So it's like two scooped out valleys next to each other. Well, in between
those two scoops is a ridge running between them. At low sun angles, those valleys look pitch black and the top of the ridge is illuminated as bright as can be, and of course it's weathered so it looks relatively flat, so it looks like a bridge. So I recreated that exactly. And the producer that was here, you know, when I told him about it and it showed him what I was doing, he just looked at me and said, that's not going to get in the show, which is such a bummer.
And I'm going to criticize the show a bit here because that what you did is so interesting, and you do this on the NASA UFO Files, which I love. That's a great show. And yeah, it's explained nasophiles, right. It's so interesting when you do that, and it's so much more helpful because then it demonstrates and it really lets you know, oh okay, that could be you know, it proves your point, it proves your credibility. And this show was so repetitive it's frustrating because they kept showing the
same clips over and over again. For instance, throughout most of the beginning of the show, they kept saying, we're going to go to our expert, and they would show you and they would show you do one line, and they showed that scene over and over again, talking about how they're going to talk to you. They showed buzz Aldrin with his one line about being
skeptical about all of this about six or seven times. They could have taken that time and actually shown your demonstration, which is so much more interesting. And you know, for example, on The Unexplained Nasaphiles, you talked about one of the teather incident where it looks like there are UFOs going behind this teather and so they must be very large. You said, well, know
what, it's an effect of light. And I was skeptical when I first heard you say that, but then and I was like, well, I don't know about that mark, But then you demonstrate it on the show, and it's absolutely amazing. It's one of the most incredible things I've seen lately
on one of these shows. And Bush, Yeah, I loved it to death, and it just demonstrates how important that is, well science, You're right, I mean, it's important not to lose sight of the scientific principles that we are all capable of. And then you know, when I saw let's let's take the tether incident for a moment, two things happened to me. I did a talk in Laughlin, Nevada, which included a discussion of
the tether incident and how it occurred. I didn't I had not done that particular National geographic show yet, So I think that was when we first met at that event. That was like six years ago or something five years ago. Okay maybe so maybe so yeah, But what they ended up doing, I think I met you in Denver before that. But that's okay, you're
probably right, go ahead. But what I what I did was I just talked about how this works and how the camera you know, the way the camera set up, and the way the lighting is and the way CCDs work and the sensors and the low light, et cetera, et cetera. Well I did was talk about that, and at the end of it, Uh, out in the lobby, this guy came at me with a fist. He was gonna hit him. Wow, are you serious? Oh yeah yeah. And the next day he was arrested. You're kidding. So did someone
stop him or did you karate chop him or something? Oh? No, No, I didn't have it. No, Well you're read. I never have any issues with protecting myself, you know, from that stuff. I mean, that's stuff I have been doing that for years. You know, but that's beside the point. What's most important? Why? Yeah, yeah, right, and then they feel bad and they don't hit you. That's what I do. Just care or they hit you harder, you a little
pierces. But and I couldn't understand his point until I realized he was using that video to help sell people on going out and doing you know, at fifty dollars ahead skywatches where people are guaranteed to see UFOs every night. I know, yeah, And I didn't want to give any names, but you know, so bottom line was, I was very put off by that, and I said, you know what, in spite of the fact that I believe I'm really exposing people to the truth here, there's got to be a
better way to do this. And so that's when I hit on the idea of just starting to demo. And if I say it's a trick of light and shadow, that's really easy to say. But you know what, yeah, show me that's you know, so I'm going to be the show you guy. I'm going to be the guy that's gonna show you what I mean. It doesn't mean that what you saw wasn't a UFO. It just shows you that there's a possibility that what you saw could have been this, because
this is explainable with what we know. So lunar bridges are explainable as parallel valleys at low sun angle where the ridges illuminated tethers ninety miles away with particles going behind them are explainable if you understand how image saturation works on a sensor, where you know, an out of focused image is dimmer, and a brighter object will always look like it's going in front of it, or it will always dimmer. Objects will always complate they're going behind brighter objects, no
matter how far away they are or how close they are. So things like that, you know our principles that you can say, but when you see it, it's a whole new world. And that's what I do. So I create these and and NASA's unexplained files. Just sign me up for the second season. So clearly must be doing something right. Well, that's awesome, you know what, And that's science, And I think people get really
frustrated. Maybe that's why they're not scientists. Because if we're saying that there's a bridge on the moon and that is recreatable, it's incumbent upon us the ones making the extraordinary claim to prove otherwise, and that's science. Scientists try to prove they're wrong. They try to prove the opposite of their hypothesis is
what is the case. So they essentially try to debunk their own theories, and if they can't debunk their theory, then hey, it might they might really have something there because they want to be more harsh on it than anybody else will be. And that's how science works. So it's frustrating, but
it's incumbent on us is that researchers to go do more work. Then you're you're exactly right, ala Huka. One of the things that's important to understand is that you know, I have to be really really hard on the data now. The reason is because better people than I are going to come along
and analyze data that we vetted and said was genuine someday. And I'm gonna guarantee you that, you know, if someone comes along and says something we said was real, you know, was real, then it's gonna be right, okay, because we're making sure that you know, it's not just my opinion, okay. Uh. I have other people that I work with in the analysis group here within the analysis unit, within Mouffin. I've added people to the to the roster that I think are capable. You know, people
that don't even there's some people they don't even have a science degree. What they have they have a degree in life. They have a degree in experience and visual experience. That's actually very essential because you know, there are people that have no observational background whatsoever, but they're scientists. And these are the guys that end up on CNN talking about, well, it doesn't look like any aircraft I've ever seen. Well, of course not, because you know,
you just fly the plane. You don't understand, okay, other types of phenomena that can cause something to look like that. And so comments like that get misinterpreted into it was a UFO, and they use it as proof that there was a UFO. And you know, I know I did one case where Russell Crowe, the actor. Yeah, remember that case it was on TMZ. Yeah, And I said, no, that doesn't that's that's not a UFO. Now I got that one wrong. Just for the record
and for everybody to know, I did not analyze that one correctly. I said, based on the information that I was given, I didn't know where it was, all right. I had no knowledge of where it was that was not provided to me. I was just given TMG sent me in and said, can you just analyze this video? What's what the lights? Now? Without any knowledge of where it was, I had no context within which
to work for alternative explanations. So the closest thing I could come up with with was, well, first of all, lots of time lapse, and it's certainly not a UFO. It actually looks like, you know, regular lighting, not quite aircraft lighting. But I'm just gonna have to call as an aircraft because it looks like that's kind of what it appears to me. Well, it turned out it was the running lights on the mast of a
sailboat outside the window going down the estuary to head out to see. So you know, even I know I'm not right all the time, all right, but I knew enough to know that it wasn't a real UFO based on how the lights were acting. But I was thrown by what the light just didn't fit aircraft either, And I said that, I said, but that's the closest thing I can come to. Yeah, had I known the address of this place, I would have gone to Google Earth and done my site
plan. The site plan is where you go when you look at the the imagery and you try to figure out everything in the in the image that can cause any type of phenomenon home to mankind a humankind. And even then that's kind of hard because who would think, you know, sailboat mass going past his balcony. Well, yeah, but you know something that's that's where that's where some people are more cut out for this than others. I'll tell you
why I said before. I see the world at fast speed and slow speed, almost never at the normal speed it travels, and I see the world in a complex play of light and shadow. So I have a different perspective on the world anyway. So I normally think of the things that you know, I normally well people normally wouldn't and probably don't think enough of the things I should. Okay, so I'm I'm kind of imbalanced the other way.
Yeah, right, exactly so, And in this particular field, it's a benefit not that that well, you know, I see the field as as the world is love and light, and I know that's getting metaphysical, but it's actually the truth. You are an amazing Yeah, so anyway, but
I did want to touch on because we're running out of time. Another reason that the TV show should have done the right thing it is because although you would have talked about how some of these things could have been a product of light and shadow, there were a couple of those moon pictures that at least with the little bit of time they let you look at the pictures, and the only few pictures they let you look at did look interesting to you,
right, that did look like an anomalist. Yeah, you're absolutely right. There was. There was at least one that I remember. I think there were two, but there was one I remember where I actually saw a strange pair of circular objects. And I'm not they're flying saucers or anything like that, because they were kind of at a strange angle into the lunar surface and
they had like these radial spokes in them. They kind of looked like the remightd me a sort of bicycle wheels or some kind of thing like that. And so my first thought was, Wow, now I don't have the print in front of me. This could be any number of things. This could actually be a the crystallized stop bath or developer, you know, on the
print. It could be something that dripped onto the actual print before got scanned, and this could actually be just an artifact of that that dark room process, or it could actually be on the negative as an artifact, or it could be a real object on the moon. But I don't have I didn't have the original data in order to find out which one it was. So but yes, it was interesting. It looked very interesting to me because it
was definitely not a natural formation. It's not the kind of formation you would see on the moon. But again without more time, because I was shown the picture. Yeah, and basically the guy with the producer would actually just say, well, here's the picture. What do you think? And I say, well, I'm not really sure. Okay, let's move on to
the next one. Oh wow, yeah, you know, so now we did, to his credit, we did go back to you know a number of those that I didn't know right away, and there was some points where he actually gave me, you know, time to actually go through and do some analysis. But it's hard when you got people breathing down your neck and sitting there and you don't have like all night to play with this. And you know, they arrived at two in the afternoon to shoot for an hour
and they didn't start filming until ten thirty at night. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was a long day. So I was actually very, very tired when the cameras started rolling. That's funny, you looked tired, Actually, I felt, knowing you, you probably looked like a person of normal amount of energy on this show, because knowing you, you're a very highly energetic person. So you did look tired. Yeah, it was. It was you know, I didn't count on, you know, eight hours of
not doing anything, you know. Yeah, so you know, they had hot lights running, they were trying to do setups and all that stuff, and they were still waiting for some data to show up to actually do the analysis. I didn't even have the data to analyze until ten, ten thirty at night. Wow. So they didn't show up with it, and I wasn't given it ahead of time. I was supposed to have it ahead of time, and you know, they tried. And I don't fault them.
I fault the schedule of the programming, you know. Yeah, you know, these companies want to get these quick hits out there, you know, And I'm not talking about you know, Bob Kiviat in particular, who's the guy that actually did the show, But you know, the people he's answering to or or you know, making demands of of him and so forth. So yeah, everybody's subject to the schedule that someone else is making for them, you know, And so down at the back end there's me trying to
do something good for these guys. But it's hard when you don't have enough time. Yeah, So before we leave this stopping, before I let you go, what do you think of the idea of aliens on the Moon? I think it's fascinating, I really do. And I tell you why. If I was an alien species, I know, I am, I know, But if I was an alien species, I would probably set up shop on the Moon because just from observation I could see that, you know, we haven't reached out there yet, you know, not in any kind of
capacity. And by looking at the Earth, if I have the capability of going interstellar, I certainly have the capability to detect the immensity of the false ring of artificial satellites that we have around the Earth. The geostationary orbits are like a false ring around the Earth. You know, thousands and thousands and thousands of objects. Now, yes, they're spread out in a huge twenty five thousand miles distance from you know, radial path away from the Earth.
Okay, but still there's still quite a lot out there in the in that geostationary orbit. Plus at the low level we have you know, tens of thousands of things circling and zipping around, you know, and between two hundred and you know, one thousand nautical miles. So we got all kinds of stuff going there. So we were surrounded by a halo of technology over the Earth. And any alien beings would look at that and say, well,
they're they're kind of focused on the Earth. They're not really looking out here yet. Now they might not even know we landed on the Moon for all we know, and setting up on the Moon, I don't know. I think i'd do it, Yeah, but uh huh, I'm sorry. I was gonna say I'd set up on the dark side of the moon or right
at the terminator. You know. I wonder if we say dark side of the moon, you know, the whole moon gets lit up, you know that, right, I mean, as the Moon's going around the Earth, the entire Moon will see light in the course of its orbit around the Earth. It's the dark side of the Moon is sort of a misnomer. It's just decided we won't see. But you're right right, Yeah, the pink go ahead, anyone. I was just gonna say that, you know,
it does seem worthwhile to look for artifacts on the Moon. It seems like a very good plan. It's something that's nearby, it's something that it is possible we can do. And even fairly recently a paper was written from Arizona State University. A well known astrophysicist, Paul Davies was a part of that, and that's what he said, we ought to be looking at artifacts on the Moon, and he's trying to start kind of a crowdsource project to do that. Yeah. I think that's great, and in fact, in the
same way that you know, I used. There was a crowdsource technology that's out there, and you know, I helped search for Flight three seventy, you know in the Indian Ocean by looking at thousands I looked at thousands of frames of ocean and I found shipping containers floating without their ships. Oh wow, Oh yeah, I found all kinds of debris out there, you know, shipping palettes. Okay, but obviously no no aircraft. But that all
said, okay, those types of technologies are very trying active. And if you have an automated search methodology, you can actually have an automated search system go through and look at the imagery and look for look for shapes that may not that may be anomalies and uh, and that that's that's a training. You train the system, you know, so like for the first thousand hours, you know, you're punching, you know, you're you're clicking different shapes
and you're telling the system. In a learning system, you're telling the system what's natural and what natural looks like a different latitudes on the moon set, and then you would be able to tell it that you know, uh, you know this this next thing is, uh, you know, something that is natural although it looks like a pyramid or whatever. I mean, that's
that's the kind of thing needed for the Moon. And and hopefully something like that, a learning system would actually be created so that the searches can be done automatically offline, you know, by a computer down in guided space flight center going through the highest quality lunar reconnaissance orbiter imagery. There is you know, yeah, because you need you need high reds now the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter l ro O. That, uh, there's an online browser for that imagery
and you can start this tonight. You can go to the l ro O site, get to the l ro O browser and go right down to half a meter per pixel in resolution in many many places, so you can see something anomalistic the size of a car, you know. Pretty cool. Yeah, it's exciting. It reminds me of that scene from Prometheus where they're flying in and they see these pyramids. It makes me think of Ben McGee and
it talks about astro archaeology really really or no zeno archaeology really exciting. Staff that that it is most likely on the horizon or in our future at some point, whether that be in decades or or or centuries, who knows, but somebody is going to be doing that. Yeah, and when you know, we need to, assuming we don't blow each other up, I think we're gonna Actually, I honestly believe we're gonna get past that. I'll tell
you why real quick, because I know I get to go. But I think that when we hit that fusion threshold where we get out more energy than we put in, then will be good to go. Fusion is a power source that is getting more money every year than all other forms of energy research combined. Wow. Yeah, because they really think they can do this. And that means if you know, a fusion reactor is hit by a tsunami, what happens. The reaction shuts off, it doesn't go into meltdown.
See the way I tell people about fusion versus fission, which is what our current reactors are, is in a fission reactor, you got to imagine a large hill where it comes to a point at the top and we're balancing on the top of a very delicate reaction which either way could go into catastrophic you know, avalanche of conditions down the side of that high mountain. But fission is is that much more dangerous you see. So, but fusion, on the other hand, is like a valley. The reactor is in the bottom
of the valley. Would take an awful lot of effort to get that to go up the side of the wall into something dangerous. So you know, fusion's the exact opposite in terms of danger. So that's that's where we're heading. And when we get that kind of energy. You could have a fusion reactor in your town and it would pose no greater danger than a guy smoking at a gas pump, okay, and and do as little damage of the guy, you know. So honestly, fusion is a much safer technology,
and we're heading that way. We will have just I'm sure because they're very close. Now, very cool. So, uh you and your future, Uh, you're gonna be doing more NASA Unexplained files. It sounds like, do you have some other uh uphro toad coming up? Anything else to look forward to. Yeah, we're we're creating instrumentation for the EUPATOC system. My book, which is called The Populated Universe, is almost ready. It's a cool yeah, and it's a discussion of my belief that life in the universe
is actually a well, it's not a it's not rare, Okay. In other words, it's it's a it's it's not a foregone conclusion either, but based on what we see, I believe that the universe is predisposed to the creation of life, and so I just use science. There's there's not a whole lot of hypothesis. There's plenty of science, but in a layman's terms that talks about it in a way that everybody understands. It talks about the exoplanets. You know, in fact, exoplanets is really the prime topic of
the book. You know why they mean a lot to us. What that's going to mean for us in the next twenty years awesome. Now, is there a website where people can go look at what you're doing lately? Or they're gonna have to wait for that too. Yeah, that has to wait because unfortunately, I've actually been so busy. Yeah, I get up around eight thirty and I go to bed around three thirty in the morning. So eight thirty in the morning, three thirty morning, So that's typical, my
typical day. Yeah. But if they google UFO t O G, they're going to find a lot of cool staff. Yeah. Absolutely, they look up you phatog. We don't have our you Phatagh two system up there, you know, the numeral two or II you know you photagh two is not up there yet. But that presentation that I put together with Doug will will be made available when when we're ready to show it. We want to make sure that all the units are in place, because the next picture you see
of it's going to be the real thing. And you know with the solar cells, the cameras, the radio transmitters, the gamma ray detector, the spots system, the transponder decoder or the know, the magnetic anominally system, the EMFs assisted all that stuff, you know, and the cellular uh antennas as well, because we can use the cell system too. Awesome, pretty cool, crazy stuff, exciting stuff. So I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all this with us, giving
us an update and talking about all the cool stuff going on. That's great, Alejandro. I really enjoyed talking with you for a while. This is great, thanks dude. Yeah. Hey, by the way, in October, I'll be in Arizona. We're gonna be doing that one week uh crash retrieval class out there. I'm actually not sure the date. I think it's later in October. So that's also supposed to happen, and it's gonna uh, it's gonna have a bunch of people that are gonna come out and we're
gonna you know, simulate a crash retrieval system. Wow, photo video analysis, uh yeah, and then a few other things too. So it's gonna be really interesting for a group of people. Anyone can go, So it's just a matter of you know, contacting uh moufon and getting the details. Cool. Yeah, I know on the mouf On web page if they go to get involved on the bottom there's something related to that at Filled Investigator boot Camp. That's what they're calling at right. Yeah. Cool. Oh that's
awesome. Yeah, So we'll see you there, right. I don't know about that busy now, but I would love to try to get there. Great. Well, like I said, we'll have fun there. And it's all about, you know, keeping the science front and center, because that's what we're all about. Our charter is, you know, the scientific investigation in UFOs for the benefit of humanity. And we can't leave out the word scientific. All right, cool, thanks man, all right, thank you.
It was wonderful spending time with you. Thank you so much to Mark for updating us on what's going on with uf O TOG. Kind of a weird thing. I don't think we even talked about it too. It's like UFO photography, that's what the UFO TG sounds for. But you can check him out at his website and then of course you can go to the moofon website and you see him all over the place on your TV and you'll see him. Of course, we talked about the TV shows he's going to be
on, so check him out there. Very exciting stuff. Also, be sure to check out openminds dot tv for all of the news that Jason and I talked about at the beginning of the show. You can also see some videos such as videos from the mofon symposium. We posted some interviews from that where the speakers are talking about UFOs and the media, and it's a really
cool video because these guys really give some insight. We've got people like George knap, Li Spiegel, Ben Hansen, people who really work with mainstream media on UFOs, so you get some insight. James Fox too into you know, how the media handles UFOs and if there is a cover up and if so, how and why so. A lot of really good stuff on this video. You can find that at open mindstat tv and of course at our YouTube. Also, you're probably wondering where the spacing out was on Friday.
Well, as we talked about, Jason was moving, so he was in transit, so we had to hold off for a week, but we will have a new spacing out this week, and if you haven't watched the one from a couple of weeks ago, go watch that one or watch some of the archives at our YouTube page. You can also find them on our homepage. And finally, I will thank the guy who does our music, Caleb
Hanks. He does the open and closed music and you can find more of his music at the Clerk Chronicles. You can just google the Clerk Chronicles. He also is an artist, so he does like kind of this comic thing around that, but his music is awesome. We often have people asking about it. Check it out at the Clerk Chronicles. Thank you Caleb, and thank you to you all well for listening. I don't know if I said it on the show, but we had breached over three million listens a couple
months ago, I think, so that's pretty awesome. That's a lot of people checking out the show, which feels really good because we work hard to bring you some of the best and the latest, and it's great to hear that you all appreciate it. Thank you so much, and we will then talk to you next week. Have a wonderful week. Audio Smooth Chattos