Linda Zimmermann, Hudson Valley UFOs

Hello, and welcome to Open Minds Radio. This is your host Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with my good buddy Jason mccloen. Hello Alejandro, and hello everybody. Yeah. I'm really excited because, you know, we moved to this new office and I'm sure people could hear in the background, people like in the microwave and getting water and ice and stuff. But fighting over coffee, yeah, fighting and general also slap boxing. Yeah, lot of that going on. Yeah. Sometimes they get upset with each other and

they kind of slap each other. Yeah, a little bit, pull each other's hair. That's office. Yeah, offices work, yeah, exactly. So now we are in our conference room with some microphones to hopefully have things sound a little better, and they sounds great. You sound great, Jason, Well, I always sound great, But thank you for finally finally noticing you are sounding wonderful this morning. Excellent. Speaking of wonderful, our guest

this week is wonderful. It is Linda Zimmerman and I'm really excited because I wanted to talk to her for a while. She wrote a book called Hudson Valley UFOs, and she's written a couple books Into the Night Sky, all about UFOs in New York. So we talked to her about how she got into this. She actually investigated paranormal for a while, but before that she was kind of a mainstream person who worked in science and stuff, and it's

like, why would someone like this get involved with the paranormal. Well we'll find out why and just a little bit. So really fun to talk to her, and we'll have that on in a minute. Any other like big news, I feel like I'm forgetting something but I can't think of big news. Well I do have some big news when it comes to UFO news. Well that's good. Yeah, that's good when it comes to UFO News, which of course Jason and I cover every week. But first we want to

say welcome to Roger Marsh. So this is really cool. Roger Marsh is the director of communications for mofon and he, as many of you know, writes about the sighting reports that MOFON gets. And it's cool because once in

a while. First of all, she'll write about the latest and greatest sightings as they happen on a daily basis, but he also has kind of special access, or at least quicker access to look at the cases that have been resolved and determined to be unknowns, and so he's able to interview at least the investigators, sometimes even the witnesses and then write stories on that so you can kind of get the insight on the investigation on some of these things,

which is cool too. And this is all part of the effort that move On has to release, you know, information as quick as possible to show that they are transparent, and you know they are. They do feel it's important to get people information as soon as possible, and they always have but we are very happy to be a part of it. And now Roger Marsh will be posting on Openminds dot tv. So last week we already started and

we had a couple of cool sightings that we posted. One of them in particular, Well they've both done really good, a lot of people are interested, gotten a lot of hits. But our good buddy George Napplick reposted one of those, so we got a lot of hits on that one. And that's pretty interesting because it was an object that this this lady saw that she said, look to be football size, football field size. But that's a

lot bigger, that's a bit, there's a big difference big different. Yeah, and a football field so sorry, football field so really huge UFO Pretty cool, So go to the site to check that out. However, I wanted to ask Jason, what was your favorite UFO story of the week last week? My favorite UFO story last week was about a football field sized UFO. No, I'm kidding. Okay, a good story, but a lot of people were you know, it's easy to get frustrated with stories like that.

Let's go off on the tangent here for a little bit, because you know, I agree with people. You know, we read stories like that. We're all, that sounds incredible, but why is there any photo or video? I want to see this thing. We know that it's not not always possible for these witnesses to get photos and or video, but when you have something incredible like that, reading it, I agree with everybody who is

frustrated saying I want to see the video meet you. But that is a really good point to bring up, because I think people are used to our site that we usually don't cover a story unless there's a picture or a video, right, And of course, a lot of the times the video is to turn out to be something mundane or something we can figure out, or at least often you and I feel that it is something that is mundane or for a reasonable explanation, right, right, So these often, in fact,

I think maybe there's been only one or two times prior that we've posted a story without a picture or a video, because we try to make sure there's some visual component. However, these stories, yeah, often come without pictures or video, but they're still interesting because there's sometimes multiple witnesses and certainly, you know, seeing from the popularity of the stories, that people still like to hear what other people are seeing. But you've got to remember one

that not everybody has the presence of mind to grab their camera. And really, if you're seeing lights in the night sky, that's nearly impossible. In fact, that would challenge anyone to take your phone outside at night and try to film a satellite, or try to film even a plane at a high altitude flying around really difficult to do. Yeah, plane, bright stars, planets, even the moon. You know, take a picture or video of the moon at night with your with your cell phone and photos aren't that great

enough. And even if you get something, it's hard to discern what the heck it is that's right, So no real usable details from those photos. Yeah, so it's really hard to do that sort of thing. So I can under understand why some people wouldn't have pictures and videos. But it's just and it is funny because you know, you're damned if you do damned if you don't photos. That's a good point exactly, because even if you get a photo, everybody's like, no, that's plain, let's Chinese lantern or

something, because you can't tell what it is anyway. But being visual creatures, yeah, we want to see the video. We want to see the photo. It helps put that image to the details in the in the reports. But with that said, I think these reports are important. There are good details that come out in these citing reports, even though they don't have the visuals to go along with it. You're right, and we are visual creatures in fact that when it comes to you and I visually stunning creatures.

Yeah, some people are luckier than others, and we are blessed. My friend, the aliens favored us. Yeah, yeah, there are bad All right, Well let's get back on track and I will now answer your question. I guess we have two weeks worth of stories to choose from this show. Oh, that's right. Because of the holiday, we didn't have a shot. I want to talk about a story that we've talked about several times, has been sort of an ongoing story for the past couple of years,

and many of you probably remember this. It was great video that came out in twenty twelve from an amateur astronomer named Alan Eppling. Now, he took a photos and video of a weird cigar shaped UFO in Kentucky in October of twenty twelve. Now, this was quickly kind of dismissed by local media as being a toy solar balloon. And you know, many people wouldn't. They didn't buy that explanation because they look at available photos of solar balloons and it

you know, solar balloons didn't look anything like this object. It was transparent rather than solar balloons that are usually more garbage bag like the black sort of plastic thingy. But you know, while that could possibly explain it, and Alan Eppling at the time admitted, hey, look, I'm not saying that this is an extraterresturial spacecraft. It could be. I have no idea what

it is, but I'm doubted the balloon theory. I will accept a balloon as a possible explanation, but this thing hovered in the sky for hours, and balloons don't typically do that, and you know, there could be some

technology that could do that, but it seems pretty strange. Well, about a year after that, Google came out Google the giant tech company, and claimed responsibility for this UFO, saying that that what people saw was just a test of Project Loon, this new project they're testing to try to bring internet to places where there isn't internet, so basically like these floating Wi Fi hotspots.

So when Ellen Efling heard that, he said, you know, again, I entertain, I would possibly entertain the idea that what I saw was a balloon, But unless they figured out how to make a balloon hover in the sky for hours, you know, it's still pretty fishy to me. And I agree with him. And there were still people who didn't buy the story because Google came out out with this Project Loon and published videos and photos of testing being done with these balloons, and they didn't look anything like what

we see in Alan Appling's photos and videos. So again that made people question this assertion that what people saw was Project Loon Balloons. Then almost a year after that, now Google just came out and said, so, yeah, that balloon of ours that people saw and thought it was a UFO, it was actually a prototype. So that's why it looked different than the other balloons that we've shown you. But we still don't have photos of that prototype that

they call Falcon eleven prototype. So who don't know what that looks like. But I don't want to rant here too much and doubt Google, but it does seem fishy that, you know, they didn't make this assertion when they first claimed responsibility, and at that time all of these questions were there. People wanted, well, how can you say that when it doesn't look anything like that? How do you explain that? There was no explanation at that

time. It took almost a year later for them to come forward and say, oh, look, here's why it was this prototype. And the more interesting thing from that story is that they now admit that they lost control of this balloon when they launched it from California, and they lost control and they lost the ability to track it. They had no idea where this balloon was, and so they say that they relied on UFO skywatchers, UFO hunters to

track the balloon. They just watched online for people reporting UFOs. That's what they assert. But I don't know how they could possibly know that this was their balloon. And you know why, I took them a year to claim that. There are a lot of weird loosens and just oddities to this story. To me, yeah, I got personally, I got a call BS on Google because sure will I do? I felt all along it was probably some sort of weather balloon or solar balloon or something like that. Google can't

make claim to this thing. It makes no sense. First of all, they say they lost control of this thing. It was then seen in Kansas, and then later in Canada. Yeah, California, then over through the South Kentucky and some other stays and then yeah, yeah I think up into Canada. Yeah, which is kind of crazy. And if they lost control, how can they claim that this is theirs? They don't know for sure? How could you? How is it possible whatsoever to know for sure it's

yours unless you had some sort of tracking device on the thing. But if that was the case, they wouldn't have lost it, So they had no idea where their balloon is they don't. I mean, the best they could say is that is probably our balloon, just because they recovered something in Canada later and they know that that's what Alan Efflin saw and the UFO tracking ideas. Absolutely, it really is absurd. And then this is what you know,

you suggested to me, and I agree with you. I mean, it seems more like a publicity stunt on their part to bring up the whole UFO angle and latch onto that story because that was a big story. It was making international headlines and it did for you know, that year, and then they reignited it by claiming responsibility in twenty thirteen and then now bringing it up again and bringing the UFO angle into it again by saying, oh,

and we relied on UFO trackers to find it. Yeah, there are over something like, on a monthly basis, five hundred UFO sidings throughout the United States. Yeah, and they were able to somehow go through the database and

determine which one was their balloon and which wasn't. That really doesn't make any sense to me, especially, I mean, they would have had to have gone to move on if they could have said, if they would have said well, you know, we think this sighting was our balloont this sighting was our balloon, but they haven't shown any It's a complete lack of information and what they've said so far doesn't really fit or hold true. It seems like,

yeah, they're latching onto this UFO thing for publicity. Yeah, I think that's the most likely explanation. Just so many things with the story sound like thes to me. I agree with you. Yeah, really bizarre. I mean a total lack of information and it just doesn't fit. And I mean, I don't know if they haven't addressed the fact that he saw this thing stationary in the sky. Balloons are stationary, I mean they can appear to be that way for a while. They can sort of drift and change

elevation and catch another air current and travel back the other direction. So it seems like it's kind of staying in the same place, but not for hours. I guess. It kind of gets under my skin a little bit too, is they're kind of making fun of UFO observers. I mean it's kind of like, oh, look at these silly people, so see balloons, and we knew these silly people would think that they were UFOs, so we decided to let them track it that way. I mean, it's it's condescending

and I don't like it. I don't like it either. We should be making fun of these people, these technology giants. They lose control of their balloon and can even track it, says Google, They track everything. Yeah, and I do like Google. I love Google. So they love Google, but Google Google X. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. They X. I don't know. They're not holding upholding to the gold standard of Google. That's right. So I don't know Google x X,

Google x x Google x. That's right. Ex Google x ex Google x ex Google x. Yeah. All right, Well what is your story, Elejandro. That's a tough one because we had a couple of good stories, and I should mention some of our really cool stories have been coming from submissions because now that we don't do the print magazine, some of those people such as Umberto Visiano are Italian friend, and then Paul stone Hill, who covers Russian UFO stories, have been writing some stories to post on the website.

So that's really cool. They have some really cool stuff, like UFOs over the Kingdom of Georgia. It's a really historical piece too, because you get to learn the history of Georgia and not the state the country. But the other hard thing is we've got otherwise some really cool stories too, in that we have this air safety board in Australia's story with the UFO nearly colliding with an airplane. However, some kind of cheating and plugging some of the stories.

But I want to go with the EPA report on mysterious cattle deaths at Area fifty one. One of my favorite researchers and cool dudes, Shepherd Johnson, is actually the guy who sent me this document that he found. He's always calming databases for cool files on UFOs. He's the one who showed me, you know, at least one Air Force file in blue Book that had

mentioned Area fifty one, which is really cool because I didn't realize. I don't think anybody realized that blue Book had mentioned the term Area fifty one before it was supposed to be out there. It was supposed to be secret at that time. But this is really neat. This is from June of nineteen seventy seven, and it's a report from the EPA on Mysterious cattle Deaths at Area fifty one. So these EPA investigators decided to go check it out.

They go talk to security at the base. They give them a map of the Groom Lake where which is, you know, essentially where the airstrips are at area fifty one, and the map is marked with the mysterious cattle deaths and these guys go investigate them. At first, you're thinking, you know, oh, cattle mutilation. However, it seems like these animals died mysteriously. They couldn't determine it during the investment mitigation, they couldn't figure out how

these things died. But they didn't say they were mutilated, but they couldn't figure out how they died. And really, when you read this report, you can see that they're really baffled, and they ruled out all of the possible ways these could have died in a normal manner. So it was a mystery that was never solved. But really neat that you had this kind of cattle mutilation or cattle death mystery going on that no one knew about nineteen seventy

seven at Area fifty one. That is now released to the public. And I guess one of the things that's curious too, is whether this document has been out there, you know, if it was just bound, or if this is yet another document that should have redacted the name Area fifty one but didn't and has been out there for some time. So it's kind of funny.

It's also interesting, I think, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, that even though Area fifty one is a secret base, its existence is denied and the CIA's documents and many others, most others crossed out the name or blacked out any reference to Area fifty one or Groom Lake, and you know, whole sections of documents blacked out to keep Area fifty one secret. However, there are a handful of documents out there where this wasn't

done. Either there's agencies who weren't where they were supposed to do that, or agencies who maybe aren't as careful about redacting information, but that the name was out there. You know. I think I thought about this, and I think it's highly likely that several of these instances where you do see Area fifty one in documents is just human error. Yeah, I think you're right, And there are so many organizations, it's not like all information go through

one single like Final Source. You know, these are individual, independent organizations and they have people responsible for releasing documents or whatever. Humans are fallible, I mean, stuff is going to get through. Yeah, and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me on this.

And it's just a thought because it makes me think if there is our aliens or extraterrestrial craft there, it's kind of sloppy that the name would be getting out there and human error, you know, would cause these errors where the name is out there if it was you know, extremely extremely top secret. And it also makes me think of other secret projects. Why haven't we seen

the name slip here and there on those too? So yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I know a lot of people disagree with me, and I've said this before, but because humans are fallible and secrets, you know, always find a way of getting out. I find it personally, I find it difficult to believe that some of these claims of humongous secrets being kept by the government and have been for many, many many years and they haven't come out. I find that suspect because again, I mean a lot

of government employees are people. I know a lot of government employees personally, I may or may not be an employment of the government myself. So you know, these people that I know, and we all know government employees, they're they're people. They're normal people. And people talk, you know, whether you get them drunk in a bar, or they tell something to their

spouse at night, or your favorite method is seduction. Seduction. Seduction is a great way to pull information, but information does get spread if and people have big mouths, certain people some people are great at keeping secrets, but people could talk, and people do slip up in blocking guide information and documents. Yeah, it's really interesting, but I think either way, it's another mysterious it's mysterious phenomenon documented by the EPA where they never figure out what happened.

They even did some tests for poison in the drinking water, it wasn't that they did a really thorough investigation, you can see, and they were left baffled. So I think it's a really cool story. And I was really excited when Shepard had shown me this document and happy that he let me post this. And I'll mention, I guess because we haven't talked since he's

or maybe we did mention this last time on the show. But he wrote an article for us also because he was at the congressional hearing with the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence SETI, and he interviewed Sess Shastak, right, and that was a really cool story we have on the website also, Yeah, exclusive interview with Seth their post hearing. So yeah, Shepherd's doing great stuff. And now it's time for our Spacing Out plug So of course a lot of

these stories. There's a lot of other really cool stories too, like this UFO type thing scene over here, uh An Iceberg, some other cool stuff, and of course Maureen and Jason cover the UFO news of the week on Spacing Out, which is posted every Friday. Yeah, youtobe you'd like to hear more news and also see our physically superior selves, you can watch us

every Friday on our YouTube channel or just open Minds dot tv. Just be careful of letting Jason seduce you, because he's just trying to get information out of you. That's right. I'm warning people right now. But if you'd like to share information and be seduced, I can help you with that. Yeah, there you go, voluntary. Yeah, and you're probably going to be some people that are going to try and take you up on that. So I think so, and I'll talk like this, yeah, hello,

Hello, we'll about UFOs. Yeah, yeah, hey, I got some Why don't you share some of that information on UFOOS baby, that's right. Oh, I'm gonna try that. That's right. Let's go to area fifty one and try Hey. Oh I could try that. I haven't tried that. Good. Yeah, I'll try that. Okay. So that's what we'll be doing next weekend. All right, And if any of you want to be seduced and or have information UFOL information pulled from you involuntarily, my email

address is Jason openminds dot TV. Hit me up. Oh my gosh, you're desperate for you're a married man. You should cut this out. You're taking it too far. Look, you can't announce that now. Nobody's gonna give me their information. You're blowing my cover here. Yeah, when I'm saving your your marriage. Well, she understands that I've got a job to do. Oh okay, good, like any secret government agent. Actually, that will just bring you more people, probably because you know the mystery of

being involved with a lurid affair that's an old wives tale. Well, we'll find out. We'll find out, all right, Thank you, Jason, it's my pleasure. We we'll talk to you next week. However, without further ado, let's go ahead and talk to Linda Zimmerman. I am very excited to have Linda Zimmerman with me, as she wrote the book in the Night Sky Hudson Valley UFO sidings one of the UFO hotspots. Welcome, Linda, Well, thank you very much for having me. Yeah, I'm really

excited to talk to you. It looks like you've done a lot of paranormal investigation over the years. Yes, for I guess over fifteen years now, I've been doing paranormal investigations in the Hudson Valley and combining it with my love of history, getting the whole interesting picture of this area that is so rich with history for hundreds of years. And what got you into the paranormal It looks like you were kind of into ghost hutting before UFOs. Really. Well,

I was actually a research chemist with a great interest in history. So I was talking about history of my county, Rockland County, which was having its bicentennial, and I was telling some of the old Indian legends and some of the Dutch and English folks stories and people just started asking about ghost stories. And to be honest, I was a little indignant at first, you know, I'm giving a history lecture, but so many people asked and I

loved ghost stories. I loved Hans Holzer when I was a kid. So I just started collecting stories and people started asking me to their homes and businesses to investigate, and it really just took off, you know, a couple of years in I was like, what just happened? Suddenly I'm a ghost investigator. But it was fascinating, and it actually led to the UFO investigations because after a lecture, people would come up and start telling me their UFO

stories. And I was a little a little puzzled at first, you know, I'm talking about ghosts. Why are you talking about UFOs? And they'd say, well, it's all connected, isn't it? And uh I didn't see any connection. But their stories were so fascinating. I said, Okay, some something big is going on here and the story needs to be told. H So when you began doing this, this, these ghost investigations, were you skeptical at first? I was definitely skeptical. Uh, it's as

you know, it's one thing to listen to somebody's story. It's another to to prove, you know, the validity of what they're saying. But uh, I can. I can honestly say after a after a couple of hundred investigations, I'm fairly well convinced that something paranormal is definitely going on. And what convinced you? When was the moment that if there was a moment, or maybe it was over a period of time where you went from skeptic to

wow, there's something really here. Actually I was in Gettysburg and I was writing about Civil War reenactors, you know, nothing paranormal, and my husband and I were at the wheat field it was actually the anniversary of the battle, and we saw this Confederate soldier walking across the field who we assumed was a reenactor. And actually I said, well, this guy's the worst Confederate reenactor. He's too bright and shiny. He should be dirty and grungy.

And my husband so we'll just interview him anyway. So I reached down to get my pen and pen and when I sat up, he was gone. And we're looking and I said, oh, no, he must have fallen down yeah, about one hundred and fifty years ago. So we went running out into the field we just couldn't find he had just disappeared. Wow. My husband and I both saw the same thing and was like, okay, this is this is something we absolutely can't deny. So you know that sticks

with you and to me, seeing is believing. How interesting? Yeah, of course this is an interview about UFOs, but I find this stuff so interesting I want to ask a couple more questions. What then, I mean, the the movies portray the ghost phenomena is pretty scary, you know, it's all horror type of stuff. And these children that looked mangled, kind of popping out of the mirror and stuff like that. I mean, that doesn't seem to be what ghost centers find for the most part with this phenomena.

No, that would make our job so much easier. That dramatic. But it's usually something no more than a whisper or a footstep or a feeling. And as an investigator you try to research the history of the location, combine it with the eye witness reports, and then whatever evidence you might find. And really these are all the same disciplines you use for UFO investigations as

well, so it was it was good training. So when you do with ghost investigation, and I think here's where there is also some more crossover. What sort of measurement do you use? Do you take some equipment and measure

different types of things? Sure, we use EMF meters, electromagnetic field meters, take the temperature, we use night vision, Geiger counters, anything we can pop possibly used to get some objective scientific measurements at a location, and you don't always get them, but sometimes you know, you'll hit a cold spot and suddenly your EMF meter is spiking and you say, okay, it's

not my imagination. So just as do you look for photographic evidence or EMF readings, you know in a in a UFO sighting case, we do the same thing in ghost investigations. When it comes to that, before we get in kind of more of the details of the sightings, do you think then there are that there's a tie in with the the MF for example, Are there similar sort of phenomena happening you think? I think probably even more so with with UFO sightings with EMF readings, because they are using some sort of

propulsions. So I'm sure there's some sort of electricity ems waves being generated with their vehicles or whatever their equipment is. So if you're at the site of a of a recent encounter, or you're seeing something right in front of you, if you have a meter that's suddenly showing you know, high magnetism or high electricity, it's a valuable tool. So any any scientific equipment that can

validate what you're seeing or feeling is very valuable. So you're doing these tacts and people start to come up to you and tell you that your UFOs their UFO storage where you're kind of like, okay, I gave this ghost thing a go, but UFOs as a little too much for me. It was nothing I ever thought I would pursue. But then, you know, I used to be a research chemist. I never thought I'd be doing ghost hunting either, but I so many credible people came up to me over the span

of so many years. It was it was just something I couldn't ignore, and I thought, well, you know, what kind of credibility do I have anyway with my ghost hunting, I might as well, you know,

I might as well get into UFOs as well. But it's funny in the Hudson Valley area of New York. Here's it's much more accepted, I think than perhaps in other parts of the country because if you grew up here, especially if you were around here in the nineteen eighties, you if you didn't see something, your family member, your friend, somebody you know, did it was it was that prevalent. So I have found it to be far

more accepting of the UFO phenomenon in this area. That's really interesting because there aren't many places like that, and I've heard that before, and I guess this is another tie in with the ghost phenomenon in that there are hot spots, it seems when it comes to ghost activity. And you can correct me or but it's also certainly true UFO sightings. It seems to be, and I don't have an explanation for that, but they're in spots of high strangeness

as they call it. It can be strangeness of all kinds, and we certainly have it in abundance here. So at one point, I mean, when people first started coming to you with these UFO stories. In UFO research, we do know of Hudson Valley being a hot spot, but were you aware of that at yes, I grew up in this area, and I

actually had a sighting of my own when I was in college. Wow, which was very dramatic, these three separate lights which came together in this brilliant blue flash and then lowered down onto the top of a mountain and pulsated. And you know, I was in college at the time, getting my science degree, and it's like, okay, how do we explain this scientifically? We don't. So I was very much aware of it. And again, if you lived here in the nineteen eighties during that incredible flap, it was

it was a part of every day. I mean I interviewed people who who said, well, yeah, you know, I saw the giant triangle around the third or fourth time. I just you know, said, okay, there it is again, you know, which is is just remarkable. Some people are fortunate to see something for five or ten seconds, and here were people having ten to twenty minute sightings several times in a month. And to get to the point of this blase attitude, yeah, there's UFOs. What

are we going to do about it? Is? I don't think there's too many parts of the country where where that's too prevalent. Right, So this flap in the eighties. How did that? When did it begin? And how? It began in December of nineteen eighty two, and it really really really picked up and had two remarkable sightings a week apart, in March of

nineteen eighty three, Mark seventeenth and March twenty fourth. Those two nights, it's estimated that perhaps well over ten thousand people wow, saw these massive silent

triangles or V shaped objects. One of the most dramatic interviews I conducted was with three teachers who were coming home from graduate school and all the road, all the cars on the highway were stopped, so they stopped and got out, and they said a triangle bigger than a football field was silently hovering over them, just at tree top level, and it was there for twenty minutes. Wow, I'm so jealous, you know, I would love to have

experienced that. And the same thing happened the following week, and you can imagine major highways in New York suddenly stopped, but every car and truck stopped and people getting out and just watching these. It was. It was a breathtaking couple of weeks, and it continued on and off for several years. I've heard someone say probably one of the longest, if not the longest flap in UFO history in eighty three when that those events took place, did that

also hit the media? Oh? Yes, but generally not in any positive supporting way. You know, a lot of you know, the old excuses of mass hysteria and planes flying in formation and of course the planet Venus and and and everything else. It It was unfortunate because it was happening so often with such intensity. It would have been a really good time for the government to, you know, to come out and admit, either we don't know what these are, or we know what they are, but don't be afraid

I mean something. But they just denied and ridiculed, and you know, tried to put a lid on the whole thing. And why do you think the media does that? Well. I interviewed a reporter who worked in the town of Poughkeepsie, and one of these triangles came right over their newspaper office, and all of these reporters were on the roof watching this for many, many minutes. Wow, when it passed off, went off into the distance, they ran downstairs to file their reports and photos, and the owner came

in with somebody in a suit and said this did not happen. Basically, anybody who writes a word about this is fired, and the media tried on many occasions. I interviewed a state trooper who tried to tell his story to the newspaper, and the newspaper said, there's no chance we're getting this story in from somebody as reliable as you. So some people did publish stories, but it wasn't the media attention did not live up to the level of the

sightings. And did that journalist to kind of share his speculation and who that person in the suit might have been, Well, he was sure it was Air Force or CIA or some government. In fact, some of the reporters were later harassed by some sort of government officials who didn't white identify themselves, and he was he was furious about this, even even thirty years later.

You know, where's freedom of the press? I mean, we saw the most spectacular thing we've ever seen and witnessed in our lives, and we're not allowed to write a word about it. You know, constitutional rights aside. It's it's it's crazy for a newspaper to pass up a story that would have been a you know, a large right right. So there was apparently extreme pressure being exerted on on members of the media during that time. Wow, when you looked into this and talked to people, did you run into more

of that? Everywhere? Everywhere? One one woman I interviewed, her whole family had a dramatic sighting of this diamond shaped object, which again stopped traffic. She tried to report it, and you know, they just laughed at her and they're like, really, don't don't waste your breath. Wow,

it's it's not going to happen. So again, there were newspaper reports and they usually ended with but government officials have assured us it was a formation of small Cessna airplanes, so they usually had to include that, you know, the disclaimer of the day. Wow, interesting you mentioned photos. Were there some photos taken in are ever printed or that you saw? The best one I saw was taken the night of March twenty fourth, when those three teachers

viewed that object. It was a high school photography student who took this remarkable photo of a large, brilliantly lit triangle beaming a light down to the ground and illuminating the grind bound below it. It was published in the newspaper a couple of weeks later. H and I tracked this man down thirty years later and I said, are you the same man who took this photo? And he's like, wow, that's a that's a blast from the past, he

said, But why why are you interested? You know, the police told me it was just a formation of planes, and I said, did you look at your own foot? Does that look like a formation of planes. So there was photographic evidence, and it just wasn't you know, it was dismissed as, oh, yeah, the kid took a picture of some planes,

what's what's the big deal? And there were where where there was other video, other photographs, but again the same thing, Oh you're you're just taking picture of a flight of military jets or ultra lights or it was never given. None of them were ever given in credence. And what people were reporting were they all triangular or V shaped. During the nineteen eighties, that

was the predominant shape that was seen. Some were circular. Some described things to me like a massive tinker toys or you know those erector sets see like girders and things. So there was a variety, but the nineteen eighties was the decade of the giant triangle here, and so do you get a censor or that Perhaps then some of those government people knew more they had to have. So many people told me that military helicopters took off after these objects,

or flights of military jets. One man told me a story from going back to the nineteen fifties. In this area, they saw this huge cigar shaped craft sitting there for I don't know, ten twenty minutes, and they scrambled three fighter jets from the local Air Force base. And as these fighter jets were, I mean they were bearing down on this object. I don't know if they were ready to fire on it. But as they approached, this thing went vertical and took off in the blink of an eye, and the

jets just went through open air. And the next day there was an article in the paper. Nothing to worry about. Yes, fighter jets were scrambled, but it was only a weather balloon, so clearly they had something on radar. You don't scramble three fighter jets in the nineteen fifties because of a weather balloon, one would hope. So in this area, at least they

had to have known for a long time. And I interviewed a man who was with the Air Force and working at the radar installation at this Air Force Stewart Air Force Base, and he said, one night some object raced up the east coast at speeds we couldn't even imagine, and everybody knew it wasn't ours, it wasn't the Russians. And he said, everybody was just in such an incredible state of excitement. And he said they spoke about that for

months. And this was a strategic Air Command facility. So when when they get excited about something, it's something to get excited about, right. Wow. So there is there an air Force base in the area Stewart? Is that what it is? Yes? Now it's it's not just an Air Force base anymore. It's also now a commercial Air Force airport, but there is still some military I think the Air Force reserves or they fly supplies in and

out of there. It's not a fighter base any longer. But in the nineteen fifties it was one of the three centers for Project Blue Book reports. It was Stuart Wright Patterson and and Air Force Base. I've seen a lot of the documents where all you know, they gathered reports and shared them among those three Air Force baces, and it was one of the locations for Northeast Defense, so it was very prominent. In fact, I have a chapter in my new book, Hudson Valley UFOs just on blue book sightings made by

Air Force personnel at that Air Force base. Oh cool, wow, neat, yeah, eye openers. Have you did you ever feel that perhaps some of these sightings or were you know, maybe top secret projects or something like that. I think so. I have spoken to ultra light pilots who were flying merrily along and had the strange cylindrical craft with stubby wings go racing by

them, and they thought these must be UFOs. And many of these pilots in this area of this the Shawangunk Mountains, had seen these and it wasn't until the Gulf War started and we all learned about drones, you know, unmanned aerial aircraft, that they realized that's what they had been seeing. So somebody in the Hudson Valley was testing drones decades ago and certainly not letting the citizens know about it. So I'm sure other types of aircraft have been and

probably still are being tested in this area. So and you think that might account for some of these signings. I think it probably has to. But you know, when you get something the size of a football field silently hovering over you for twenty minutes, you know that I think is beyond our capability, or certainly was at that point, but certainly drones could have. You know, we did have a military air force base here, we have West

Point, There's a lot of air force. There's a lot of commercial airports in the area, so misidentified conventional aircraft and possibly military unconventional aircraft could account for a good portion. But I actually found newspaper accounts going back to nineteen oh nine, Wow in this area, talking about these mysterious airships that hover at night and take off at great speeds. We absolutely did not have anything capable of doing that back then. So even if you discount some of the

more modern sightings, the older ones cannot be ignored. Yeah. Pretty interesting. So did you ever, in some of your investigations approach to it and ask them for any sort of official ascim if they knew of anything going on in the area or ascent for a statement. I did not approach them to ask for a statement. I had talked to several former you know, military men who worked at Stewart. And again they said, don't even bother,

they're not going to talk to you. So but I did talk to enough former personnel to get a pretty good picture of what they knew and what had been going on there. Well that's really interesting too. So you do have two books. You have in the Night Sky, I came out what last year? And then this year is Hudson Valley UFOs so pretty new, right, yes, just a couple of months old. I hadn't anticipated doing a second book, but people kept contacting me and saying, I have a story

to tell you. You have to listen to me. And again there was just such a compelling group of stories. And when I found those nineteen oh nine articles, I said, okay, we can we can push the envelope back even farther now, and and you know, have an even richer tapestry of stories to tell the nature of the objects seen in nineteen oh nine. Were that the account similar to accounts that happened in mon Now, Well, yes, they didn't know what they were seeing. They were always at night.

They were essentially seeing lights. Some thought perhaps they were cylindrical, just by lights at either end, and the characteristics were they could hover silently, and they could take off at great speeds, and they could stay in Some of the sightings lasted as long as four hours wow, which if you knew what you know, if you're familiar with what planes looked like in nineteen oh

nine, they were lucky to stay up for thirty minutes. And no plane had yet to fly at night in the United States in nineteen oh nine. Oh really, no, So obviously there were dirigibles, you know, balloons and things, but clearly they're not capable of taking off at high speed. So I didn't you know, I'm I'm I'm very compulsive with this. I did all my research to make sure this wasn't some somebody's experimental craft, and

in the hundred years since, no evidence has been found. And it's also important, nobody ever used the word alien or thought these were people from Mars. They they thought the Wright brothers or perhaps Thomas Edison who worked nearby in northern New Jersey, that he they had somebody had developed this remarkable aircraft. And you know, you'll read these articles and everybody's so excited. Nobody's panicking. They're excited to have to see these flights, and then they were just

waiting. They expected any day now for somebody to announce, you know, Thomas Edison, to say, yes, I have developed this fabulous aircraft. So when modern critics say those mysterious airships were just cases of mass hysteria, nobody was afraid. Nobody was you know, thinking we were being invaded. Yeah, you can't have mass hysterias. People aren't hysterical exactly. That is

so interesting. And it's interesting too that people kind of gave, you know, the right Brothers or Edison, kind of this almost mystical status like their magicians. They can, you know, with technology, create these things that looked like magic or almost supernatural. Right. It was a great age in the early nineteen hundreds of discovery and invention, and people were thrilled to be part of it. Yeah, pretty cool. So and I do love and

that's that's really interesting. The Blue Book files, especially the ones that are unknowns. I think it's so interesting to look at those because, like you said, there are many accounts from air force personnel or other military personnel that are often taken more seriously than other witnesses, and their very interesting accounts. So it sounds like you ran across some of those. Well, I was

under the misapprehension that I should only look at the unknowns. And then one of the first, one of the first cases I read the entire file for

was Stewart Air Force Base nineteen fifty one. A captain and a lieutenant in the Air Force, who should have some clue of what's in the skies above them, cited an object moving with what they termed planned maneuverability, obviously under inteligent control, lighted essentially zigzagging back and forth over the base at high speed, and then they described the angle and the speed and the trajectory that this took off in a flash. They gave incredibly detailed reports, and yet the

final conclusion was it was a weather balloon. And steam started coming out of my ears. And I read the twenty page report, and sure enough, at the last line of the last page stated no weather balloons had been released during this period, And so I very quickly lost my blue book innocence and realized they're just lying there. You know, here's this compelling sighting by two Air Force officers. They admit there's no air weather balloons in the air.

Yet the official excuse conclusion was weather balloon. So I read every page of every blue book case that had anything to do with the Hudson Valley and found dozens and dozens of cases that were explained as you know, swamp gas, zenus, weather balloons, and actually had incredible testimony, photographs, sketches, multiple eye witnesses, all explained away. Mm hmm. And that is a

good point, because I'm going through those. I first looked at it unknowns, but then I also looked at what Heinech considered an unknown the astronomer consultant, And what was interesting is they didn't always agree, and sometimes Heinich felt for no good reason one was something mundane when the Air Force didn't, which

I thought was kind of interesting too. So right, I think you make a good point in the important because they did try to explain away a lot of them because they were just trying to close the files anyway they could exactly what were is an example maybe of another really good one that you came across, Well, there was a woman who reported seeing strange lights moving through the sky. In fact, the whole neighborhood was seeing things take off and land

out of the woods. And this was happening over a two week period. One night, she followed one of these lights. She went back through the woods and she said there was a rounded, cylindrical, a circular craft. She drew a sketch of it. She said it was the size of a Volkswagen. She was fifty feet away from it. Submitted all this detailed information of times, you know, the sizes, the distances, all of these

other witnesses, and the official conclusion was it was a meteor. M two weeks worth of detailed sightings, sketches and witnesses, and they said it was a meteor which you know, flashes through the sky in a heartbeat, right.

So I was just I was infuriated reading these and like you said, often they'll do their due diligent, so they'll go around and ask, you know, if there are any meteors sited, and like you said, because I've read some of these files where they'll say there were no meteorites reported in the area, but still come to the conclusion that that's what it was exactly

exactly. I was joking. You know, you know those those magic eight balls where you shake them, you get they must they must have had a cube in there that said meteor venus swamp gas and the conclusion is that hilarious. That's it. Yeah, So it turned out to be a substantial section of the new book because, uh, as you were saying, you know, people usually just look at the unknowns, and I just went through every month of every year and picked out anything that was located in the Hudson Valley

and read the entire file. And it was as a real eye opener that this was far more prevalent than I had anticipated, and going on with a much greater intensity for more decades than I thought. So, honestly, I grew up also thanking. Well, you know, there was some things in the fifties, sixties, mostly in the eighties, and then it really didn't happen too much anymore. And now I'm you know, I see it's from nineteen oh nine to the present and it's never really let up. That was

going to be my next question is is it still continuing? So you're still getting very interesting reports. Absolutely, two days ago there was a sighting of a Z shaped craft for at least ten or twelve minutes by a couple of witnesses. There was a lot of video that was taken in the Hudson Valley a year ago of this bright cylindrical upright object that was just pinned to the sky for hours, and a pilot who his job is doing a aerial photography

for Hollywood. He tried calling air traffic control in the FAA and said, you have this massive object sitting in you know, highly traveled airspace here, and they just hung up on him. Nobody wanted to hear anything about it. Wow. And he videotaped this object for two hours. Wow. And many other people video taped it as well. And the only semi official word to come out of this whole thing was that it was a milar balloon that

had been released somewhere in Kentucky and floated its way to Maine. Yet it was able to remain stationary in twenty six mile an hour winds for two hours, which is a pretty good trick for a mylar balloon. So here we are decades past Blue Book and we're still encountering the same resistance. Well, have you come up with any ideas or maybe speculated as to why this all happens in the Hudson Valley? I wish I knew a lot. A lot of the sightings are seen either above or in the Hudson River. Or we

have a lot of reservoirs here. I had mentioned the Shawangunk Mountains earlier. They are very rich, rich with quartz crystals. We do have seismic activity here. We have a nuclear power plant. I don't know if there's some natural earth energies here that they can utilize. Perhaps that's why they're coming here. But you know, we didn't have Air Force bass and nuclear power plants back in nineteen oh nine either, So I can only speculate there's something about

the gig or the geography of this area that they can use. And you've kind of touched on it earlier, and I think that there's a lot of UFO sightings. But there does also seem to be other phenom paranormal phenomena that is in abundance in this area as well, like hotspot for other things. A prime example of that is the town of pine Bush, which you may have heard about. And everybody I speak to in pine Bush they just shake their heads and say, weird stuff happens here, you know. And I

have to agree, there's just something about pine Bush that isn't normal. And I say that affectionately. I love the place, but it's not saying that people aren't normal. No, just what goes on, Just what goes on. There have been sightings going back to the nineteen twenties, ghost stories everywhere you name the type of strange, bizarre activity and it's more than likely happened

in pine Bush. Wow. How strange. And so when it comes to the UFO sightings, do you subscribe to the extraterrestrial hypothesis that perhaps that's what's behind these craft in the Pine Bush area? I believe, So I'm not ruling out that some of it could not have been military uh craft. But again, when we're talking going back to the nineteen twenties seeing the same thing, obviously I don't think we had the capability of that type of craft then

either. So I think the predominant activity has to be extraterrestrial. And along those lines, you know, you've probably been ran across people who have felt that they've interacted with extraterrestrials. So do you feel that there's a lot of that in the area as well and possible abductions. Well, I did not expect that when I first started my research, and the very first person I

interviewed just blew my mind. He was very credible. He started having abduction experiences when he was a kid in the nineteen fifties, and he just gave me chills. He just gave me chills sitting across from him listening to his stories. So his mother, who was in her eighties, was still alive, and I said, do you mind if I speak to your mother because I just wanted to find out did he have an over actor's imagination as a child, this or that? And I start speaking to this sweet little old

lady who blows my mind again, starts telling me about her abduction. Wow, going back to the nineteen thirties, and now her grandchildren up in Vermont are having the same things happen. And abduction cases actually became the largest chapter in the book, in the Night Skybook, and it's like, how did this happen? And I just spent an hour and a half on the phone yesterday interviewing a woman who had the most chilling experiences going back to when she

was a child as well. And it's it's so prevalent here. I can't explain it. Not so many know what happens, but so many people have told me they see a bright light or a landed craft. The next thing they know, it's three hours later, or it's the next morning, and they have scoop marks and bloody noses, and even these chilling cases of one woman who was three or four months pregnant saw this bright light and the next

day she wasn't pregnant anymore. And it was really getting into territory. I was not prepared to tread, but I keep finding it over and over and over again, going back generations. It's funny because you know, I know, I think my coworkers DOHO feel similar. How the heck did we get here? You know, how the heck why are we so involved with all of this stuff that, you know, years ago we would have said it's

pretty dang weird. So exactly, that's really interesting. But there's just so much compelling information there is, and it's coming from doctors, law professors, military men, police officers, politicians. I mean, I had this one politician tell me a story about this being that kept coming into his room night after night, and he was so certain of what he experienced he was willing to let me use his name. And I said, do you ever have any hope of being re elected, and he said, wow, I'd like

to. I said, well, we're I appreciate your honest, you know, I appreciate your honesty, but we're making up a name for you. So when a politician whose livelihood depends on the votes is willing to state his case publicly and have his name used, that's that's pretty compelling. Uh huh. I think it was very wise of you to use a different name, and very nice of you too and consider it because I think, yeah, he would have also had a surprise in some of the problems he would ran

into, absolutely had she used his name. That's so interesting, yeah, really really interesting stuff. So you've written two books, you know, almost about a year apart, so you've been keeping really busy, Yes, hectically busy, but I love it and I'm already already collecting more cases. They just don't stop coming. And now that these other two books are out, and of course the film, the In the Night Sky film, the more popularity at games, the more people are seeking me out to, you know,

to tell their stories. Like this woman the other day. You know, she had not publicly told her story. That she's in her fifties now, and this has been going on her entire life. But she she was adamant. She goes, I want to know the truth and I want people to know what's been happening. So I think, you know, a life time of being ignored or ridiculed, people are just getting to the point where we don't care about it any the ridicule anymore. We need to tell our

stories. Right in the film, I should mention that too, A documentary was made based on your book in the Night Sky at The documentary has the same name and it won the People's Choice Award at the UFO Congress in twenty thirteen, So hooray, yay. That was that UFO Congress. I have to say, if no one, you know, somebody hasn't been to that before, definitely go. We just had the time of our lives there. It's just so wonderful to be surrounded by people who know what you're talking about

and have, you know, stories to share and insight it was. It's just such a wonderful event. Well, it's good to hear you say that, and I hope we see you at the next one. And the documentary people can go see and purchase at Night Sky UFO dot com. And where is the best place for people to go see your work. They can get my books on Amazon. They're available Barnes and Noble also just about every ebook format known to mankind. Uh huh, so it's very easy for them to

uh to get it. And you have a say go to zim. Is that correct? Yes? G O t O z I M go to zim dot com. Books can be ordered directly if you want, you know, me to personalize a copy to you, I'd be happy to. Uh if you want to contact me about your story, uh, please do as I said, I am still very interested in collecting uh more evidence so you can see where I'm speaking and the other strange things I'm up to, m hm

and so. And you have another UFO book in the works, then it sounds like right, I have no time frame for that, but I am actively still collecting information because really in the Hudson Valley there's not I don't know of anybody else who's doing this. Who is you know, interviewing people and

collecting their stories. So you know, there are some support groups. There's one in Pine Bush actually Walker Valley where you know, people who have had experiences can go and share stories, but nobody's really documenting them, and that's what I'm trying to do. And you're still out there hunting ghosts. Yes, I have a pine Bush ghost hunt set up for tomorrow night, so

I'll be back in crazy and weird pine Bush. And I do want to mention if anybody is in this area, the town of pine Bush has actually designated a uh A location where you can go and SkyWatch nobody. Yes, this is a huge step because they used to arrest people who parked along the side of the road and tried to look for UFO. They learn about that. Yes, it was illegal to SkyWatch in pine Bush for the longest time. And now pine Bush has a yearly UFO festival and they have a designated

UFO citing location. So times are changing, yay. And have you found that I guess my last question we talked about media and everything in the media, how they treated the subject in the eighties. It seems like it's gotten better. Do you feel that's true? In some locations that has definitely gotten better. But unfortunately the local while the local press supported the UFO festival, the New York Post in the city you know, talked about it being a

bunch of you know, freaks and green rubber suits. So there's still that, you know, wink wink, nudge, nudge. It's the UFO crazy people staying New York City people, and they should talk right right exactly. They've got their own reputation to worry about, yes they do, all right. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. Really interesting stuff, and I hope people go check out your books, and it's great that you've moved into this area and have been contributing.

So thank you very much. Thank you. This was wonderful and I do hope to see you with the next UFO Congress. I'll be there, Okay, take care, all right. Thank you so much to linda' zimmerman for being on the show Really interesting Stuff. I implore you to go get her books and to also watch the documentary, really really good stuff. And do come to the UFO Congress this year. In fact, we just posted the

dates and we opened registrations so you can go register and everything. So we don't have any speakers listed yet, however, because the thing sells out and it's so popular and it's the biggest conference in the world on UFOs, people want to register immediately, even before they have speaker information, so they can

get in there early. Because of course, especially when it comes to the hotel, I always tell you guys this, but luckily a lot of you come up and tell me, man, thanks for telling me about getting into the hotel early, because the hotel does sell out, and there are other hotels, but they are a little bit of a distance away, or at least, you know, it's always nice to say in the same hotel that all the speakers and all the events are in. So go ahead and go

to open minds dot tv or Ufocongress dot com. We also have like UFO Congress dot orgon dot net a stuff. But go to open mindset tv or ufocongress dot com and you can go register for the conference. And actually these days I've seen a lot of conferences that are shorter and costs more. So it's a great deal and you'll want to check that out. And of course the earlier you register, the better the deal. Otherwise, remember spacing out.

If you go to our site, you'll see that on YouTube, and all of the news and stories that we talked about you'll see on our website. There at openminds dot tv, We have another really cool video too. I've talked a lot about this Air Force letter that I sent out and Richard Dodi and disinformation and all of this, and we've got a new video coming out hopefully today or at least this week where we go in depth into this and give you more information. I talked about this on Coast Coast and on

podcast UFO and stuff. So yeah, finally it'll be out in video format. If you're not the type who likes to read follow links and stuff, and sometimes it's easier just to watch a video, so that will be out as well. So just come to Openminds dot tv to see that, look forward to Roger Marsh's stories on move On Sightings and you know, all kinds of really cool stuff. So before we go, as usual, I want

to thank the guys who created our awesome open and closed music. We always have a lot of people saying, man, your music is cool, and it is and it's done by Caleb Hanks. He has a website called the clerk Chronicles. You can go there, you can register, you can google clerk Chronicles Caleb Hanks. You'll find his site and he actually posts his music for free. It's really cool stuff, but thank you to Caleb Hanks for the music. Otherwise, join us next week for another great show, and

thank you all for joining us this week. Adiosmoochatos.