Lee Speigel, UFO News and Updates

Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, and my name is Alejandro t Rojas sue Erginius, and I have with me my good buddy Martin Willis, who joins us with UFO News, and he is also a super genius. Wow, so it's no so you can call me Martin super Genius Willis. Yeah. Maybe, oh I did, Yeah, I did. Wow. That goes on your business card. You remember,

I'm referring to the young guys. Aren't gonna remember the old guys like us will Bugs Bunny because that used to be on television all the time. Now they the kids don't get to see Bugs Bunny and it's terrible. It's where most of my comedic stuff comes from. Maybe it's good then they'll think it's original. But yeah, that was one of while E Coyote super Genius. Hmmm. I like the sound of that, Wile E Coyote super Now we're doing the whole skit, but it's a good skit, funny stuff.

And he created that business card, Wiley Coyote super Genius. Good stuff, good stuff, right. I grew up in that era too, and yeah, it was like Saturday Morning m cartoons and then I guess they were on like every day. Yeah, they were on every day, and boy I was there watching that Bugs Bunny one funny dude. Yeah, that's right, So let us get into it. So what we're here for, actually, people is UFOs. So just so you're aware of what our show is all

about, we look at it from a journalistic perspective. So we look at the news and the information out there, we share it with you, hopefully in an unbiased manner. If we're speculating or sharing our opinions, we'll let you know that. But you know, we're kind of looking at a more skeptical, kind of hard look at everything. And if the interview starts at twenty five minutes after, so if you want to skip over to the interview, you can, but you're going to miss a lot of the latest and

greatest news. However, the interview is really good. Today we've got Lee Spiegel, formerly of the Huffington Post. Now he's got a new radio show called Edge of Reality on kg r A radio. Uh this state this plays on That Martin show plays on kg r A and elsewhere as well. But uh so we talked to Lee about his new project. There the other project

he's been working on is his documentary with James Fox. Of course we had him on last time talking about that, but uh, we talked a little bit about that because that is finally coming to Fruition and the at the UFO Congress. James Fox, the main documentary producer, filmmaker there, is going

to be talking about this film. So finally, you know, Lee's been the guy leaking out some information here and there, but finally we're going to hear from the man himself, James Fox, about his new exciting film at the International UFO Congress. I can't wait. I can't wait to make to meet James. Yeah, so and and people don't know this, but you have a very important job at the UFO Congress. I know you are very afraid to do it, but it's kind of you know, it's like the

director job who's doing the news. You've got to push all the buttons and click all the clicky things and you know, coordinate everything that's going on up there on the stage. I'm starting to get anxiety. No, don't do that. You did a great job. You had fun. In fact, I couldn't get you off of it. I did, I did. I want to keep doing it and we're like, well, no, you know your time's up, and you're like, no, I just looked through it to tutorial the other day and I go, did I really do this?

Hophil to come back? I mean we both use that. What is OMD or whatever for? Oh? Yes, yeah, it's way less complicated than that, I think. Probably getting back to Lee, Uh, what a great show he is running. I'm glad you're talking to him today. I help a lot of people go check that out. It's really I've listened to all three of them that he's had so far, and they've been very, very well done, professional and very enjoyable. Hmmm. I'm sure he's going

to love to hear that. Well, it's true. He's been doing it for a long time, so it's a lot of fun. Yeah. I think it was the late seventies, Yeah, something like that. Amazing, Yeah, amazing. He tells a story and I'll tell this because we didn't get into it and I should have asked him about it, which is kind of funny. When he said he wanted to do a UFO radio show, they said fine, But and this is in New York City, the Big City, the Big Apple but if you're going to do this, you have

to stand out on the street. I think they told him to do this weekly in an alien costume to promote the show. And this alien costume was created by Saturday Night Live. And I'm pretty sure he's got a picture of it on his website. Oh my god, he never told me that part. Yeah, he talks at his lecture. Lecture, that's very humbling. Yeah, if I would to move forward with that if I was him, Yeah, he did it, so thank goodness. I guess you got info

out there what you got to do sometimes, huh? I guess. All right. So let's go ahead and get into the ufon news. Martin and I cover you know, the latest ufone news before we get into the show the interview, and so go ahead and start us off. What bit of news that you find on the front page of Open Minds, that TV or elsewhere that you would like to discuss. Well, I'd like to talk. There's so much news out there about the storm area, fifty one of them.

And so Lincoln County plans an emergency declaration ahead of it, which I think, I mean, I don't blame them, And I'll get into that, you know, in the story. So this is basically through Las Vegas News Channel three and Lincoln County officials are moving forward with the plans to sign an emergency declaration ahead of storm Area fifty one event scheduled for next month.

The county's Board of Commissioners met Monday mornings to discuss a pre signing for the declaration and in anticipation of the September event, which is expected to draw as many as thirty thousand people. Now i've heard personally, I've heard people's throw out all kinds of numbers, you know, maybe fifty thousand. I don't know's it might be one of those things where people will show up because it's just curiosity wondering who else is going to show up and how big it's going

to be. I think they'll be, you know, I think it's possibly a lot larger. And the reason that they're having this emergency declaration or they want to declare that is because of the area there is. We've talked about

this to you and I have before. There's no lodging there and the closest town is rachel and I believe there's isn't there like one hundred people there or something is so small, such a small town, so there's such a lack of resources including gas and lodging and of course food and you know there's an inn there, but it's completely booked of course, So I think people have

to it's such a harsh environment. I mean, you know, the temperatures even that time of year can still get really hot, and you know, there is just people really have to be very very careful. And I totally get the reason why they are declaring this. It's turned into now it's a three day music and arts festival and it's called alien Stock. Like there's more

than one. There's one called peace Stock, and the organizers got a hold of me for that one, and that is the guy who got a hold of me also does Coachella, So I think that's what that was all about. Peace Stock fifty one, I think they're calling it. So, you know, I think it's a coastelic people. Coachella people decided because Coachelle is not that far so they've got experience putting on events. But you know they want to do yeah, this big same thing, you know, kind of

a Woodstock Coachella thing. In fact, they have a bunch of pictures if you go. Look. Oh, and they've put up some more bands, so they've got some more actions. I was just going to ask you if you you know, I saw there's a few confirmed bands, but no, they said there's going to be some real headliners. But I'm not seeing the

information. I don't see it. That at the peace Stock fifty one they have you know, it looks like a picture of Kendall Jenner or a girl that looks like her with a bunch of people, and you know, same Coachelle. I'm sure it's a Coachella picture, scantily clad people and stuff like that. And then the artists they have are I don't know any of these names, so you artists and indie artists, I don't know. So anyway, Yeah, the issue has been some of these are at the at the

Little Alien which is in Rachel Rachel, Nevada. The town has up on their town site. Don't come here. This is bad. These guys are not prepared. These guys are bad. The city doesn't want this. They're going to be armed and protecting their their land, the citizens of the city. It even says, but it does say go ahead and go to the Alien Research Center. So the Alien Research Center is having an event. It may be so, I guess part of it is the safety. Are safety

concerns being met and there are people reviewing that. And as far away is the has that center away from there, it's it's pretty close. Oh okay, it's right there. It's the tall one. In fact, when when Travis and I went, we're on the area fifty win with the Kardashians. We had to we went there with them also, so that was near it's you know, one of the stops. Let's see, it's near Crystal Springs,

So it's kind of that three seventy five highway. Rachel is about on the north side of that, and at the end, at kind of the crossroads, that's where the Alien Research Center is. It looks like only you know, five or no, maybe ten miles away, Alejandro, This just occurred to me. Do they Does someone actually have permission to hold an event on a certain whissel of property? Yeah, well, some of these people

own the property. Little Alien has property they own, The Alien Research Center has property they own, and yes, they have allowed people to work on this property. The Alien Research Center, by the way, I might be

I might be speaking there for this thing. But the person I'm working with is working on making sure that they have you know, they're vetting them, making sure they're they're legit, they've got all the safety concerns figured out, and you know, we don't want to be a part of anything that's that's like some of these others, it's kind of shaky. But anyway, the permits, I guess there were some sort of permits they had to get.

And that's why this news that you're sharing is kind of weird because the latest I heard was that, you know, the town was saying and the town said they do not have their permits, but it sounds like from what I heard, the permits were granted. But at the same time, the city

is saying, you know, we are going to declare this emergency. So but one of the an emergency declaration will also give them more funds, and that could be the big thing that they need is just more money allowing to you know, dip into another budget beside their own, and so that could be the back of the ground of this. It's probably to hire some more security and maybe even some of the things that you mentioned, like making sure

there's water and safety and all of these things. That are supposed to happen. Yeah. Wow, And it's not going to be too long that, you know, just it's just like a month from today. I know, it's not very far away. So it's pretty wild wharphs into it's already morphed already. We'll see what else changes by then. So and I don't know, like, you know, where those of if we're going to be speaking

out there, I don't know where we'd be staying or anything. But I do have a friend who said he wants to runt an RV, so I could crack on the floor of his RV or something. Yeah, that seems like the only thing that really makes any sense to bring there some type of RV or Yeah. So I don't know, we'll see. I mean, there's not a lot of time for the organizers to kind of figure stuff out.

And this alien stock one that you're mentioning has gotten more press than this peace stock fifty one from the Coachella people, and so, but they're all right there, So I think everybody's going to be aware of everything going on, because you know, it's all right there. So we'll see, yeah, and then what else. And there was some other news regarding this, you know, our good buddy MJ wrote a story about how the whole thing's going to be a mess, and of course he referenced mostly alien stock and

some of this what I mentioned about the city. But here's another funny story. The only band and booked to play Storm Area fifty one has an interview here on why they might believe in UFOs. They're not so sure, but maybe. And that's a band I have actually never heard of myself, but shame on me, I probably should have. Oh, I know what, you haven't heard of this band? What is the name of the band?

I forget I'm going to take a look at those So you take a look at the band and then let us know when you figure that out, because I don't know either, to be honest, But anyway, Yeah, there's a story on that, and of course you can find these all on the front page of Open Minds dot tv. And then let's see a couple other things going on. Oh, I wrote this story, and this was something

I think I've talked about before. I don't remember. Brian Bender from Politico was at the Aspen Security Forum. And it's funny because some people will say, oh, you know, Bender's taking the lead from to the Stars on writing his stories, as if he's in the pocket of to the Stars or something like that. I talked to Bender on a regular basis. He lives out here. Not true at all. Of course, I had him on

my show. You know, he does important stuff like going to the security forums, and he's hanging out with you know, Assistant Secretary of Defense for this and Secretary of that, and you know, all of these lawmakers, all of these very very high falutin people. So you know, he's conversing people. He has no concern about the UFO crowd. But of course he thinks some of this is an interesting story, because it is, and so

that's why he covers this stuff. But interesting enough, he was sitting in one of the forums and someone was brave enough to ask one of the admirals about UFOs, and you can tell the guy was kind of nervous because his question didn't even fully get out here, just kind of like, uh, yeah, uh, the Navy and UFOs and uh and so you know, and then people kind of laughed, which was disappointing. Uh So I wrote an article about this. In fact, Tyler Rogaway, who's a Defense writer.

He's like, well, it was in that crowd. It's probably a lot of defense journalists and they laughed. It's disgusting. He called it disgusting that they laughed. Uh, because Tyler, these are his colleagues, Tyler Rogua away he wrote for The Drive. And Uh, anyway, I posted this story on the Roswell Daily Record but also on my blog Allejandro t Rojas dot com. But yeah, so nice to be a column columnist at the

Roswelt Daily Record. Some great people over there. But yeah, I wrote about this and then and so the the guy's reply was more interesting than what it seems. He said, Uh that essentially, here's how Bender put it that Admiral Phil Davidson responds that there is now a reporting process for these unexplained sightings and says the encounters were during a finite period. So that's an interesting

quote. The fact that they, yeah, finite, the fact that the Navy has new reporting processes, something that Brian Bender himself broke as a news story. He was one with that scoop. But so it's interesting this admiral knows about that, although you know, he's in the Navy, so that's not as surprising. But the finite period thing, it's something that is interesting. I asked Bender, what did he think that meant? And because my point was, you know, the sightings, the two big ones that we

know about that we know they are briefed on. It's because of the you know, the television show Unidentified is why we know they were briefed. And of course this is due to the work of To the Stars and luel Azando. But those cases occurred in two thousand and four and then twy fourteen, in twenty fifteen, that's not really finite. That's a large period of time.

But what Bender's saying is that he thinks what they're saying is that these periods of times where they were citing we were like two thousand and four or twenty fourteen to fifteen, they were during a finite period of time here and there. I further wrote then about what Tyler Rogoway has been writing about, because Tyler Roganway has been making a point that he agrees that it is a

finite period of time and in certain places all around the United States. And furthermore that in both of these cases, they there was a new radar technology that was being deployed, so he's putting together these facts to say, you know, okay, brand new radar technology. These all happened near the United States, off the coast, and you know, during a finite period of

time. He's saying, those ingredients point to human technology somebody you know, me with them, and it's some sort of top secret technology that's very exotic. However, he's saying that's just one possibility, because there's also the issue that these technologies, of course, are far superior than other technologies we're aware

of. In fact, one of his quotes is that he makes the point that we have to with the reporting of these encounters, now realize that technology exists that is capable of performing flying maneuvers that shatter our perceptions of propulsion, flight controls, material science, and even physics. That's his quote. So it doesn't answer all the questions, especially the harder questions, but to him

it answers more. And what I find interesting is if the Admiral is saying this something similar to what Roguaway has pointed out, maybe the investigation is also similar to Roguaways in that they are looking for and they see evidence that perhaps this is human technology. So I don't know, we have zero insight into the Navy's any Navy investigation into UFOs. I mean, certainly we now know because this is the other story actually I wrote is on my blog. I'll

get into this real quick. And I don't know if you've seen this. Some new emails were released this week regarding how those Navy UFO videos were released, and you know, there's some spin in everything, but I looked at those emails and I wrote up a summary to kind of clarify things for people, and it really again shows what Alexondo was saying, but even more,

it adds a little bit more. So it shows Alexondo having a conversation between you know, the the adopts or people, the people in charge of releasing stuff. Aleixando submitted it the DD nineteen ten to get the videos released, and in this conversation they say something like, well, if you uh, from what I understand, you can just get rid of the metadata and then they're unclassified and you can go ahead and publicly release them all you want.

And it was Lou who went back and said, well, I'm not looking for If this makes it easier for you than a public general public release, is fine. I'm cool with that, but I was looking for more of a controlled release. So Elizondo's saying I didn't want to release it to the general public. I was just going to release it, release it to some you know, industry partners and some others. But what they did was stamp

this thing cleared open for publication. And as I point out in my article, if you go look at the instruction booklip for the Doopster UH for the DT nineteen ten, it says if it's cleared open for publication, that means despite what anybody else's input, and it says this. The verbiage practically says this, I'm paraphrasing, but it says, then it's clear for general public release. So those videos were cleared, like I thought, for a general

public release. Now I got kind of criticized for suggesting that, but now this proves that. So it proves that they were the ones on the DoD side that were cool with the general public release. So even though some people with the Public Affairs Department made it sound like, oh, you know, they released it more than they should have. Well lose the one who came up with a restriction, so really and they told him you can release it to whoever you want. So he really was able to release him to whoever

he wanted, and that's what those emails really show. So they're kind of interesting, but it does show the Navy was involved with at least releasing them. Interesting. I know we're out of time, but I just wanted to tell you that rock band is a rock trio called Willie or Wiley Savage. Wiley Savage. I haven't heard of them, have you? Oh yeah, sure, yeah, no, I have no idea Wiley So rockin' to Wiley in area fifty one. That's right. So all right, well, thank

you very much for sharing all that news. Yes, you're very welcome, and I can't wait to hear Lee's interview with you. Yes, it's always great to have you on. It's always great to have Leon and so we will get to that right after the break. But thank you Martin for joining us. Of course you could check out Martinette podcast UFO. Otherwise, let's

go ahead and after this break we will be back with Lee Spiegel. You're listening to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am happy to welcome back to the show a dude who I feel hasn't been on the show in a while. Although he might complain about that, he's been happily. Probably by far, the guest I've had the most on the show, and that is the esteemed Lee Spiegel. Hello, mister Spiegel. Oh, thank you, Alehanjo. I don't know do I prefer the word esteemed or dude? I have to

think about that. How about esteemed dude? Esteemed dude? Is that true that I've been on more than anyone else? Wow, I'm sure you have because we do the yearly special. Yes, I have you periodically just to talk about, you know, different cases and different UFO stuff. Yeah. So if I went and counted by far, well besides Martin, but he's on every one, of course. Well, I do appreciate that. Is there is there like a prize? Yeah for that distinction. Yes, that

you get the title of esteemed dude, esteemed UFO dude. That's going to look so good on a T shirt. I'll tell you, Yeah, that will. That'll be fun. So you have been Okay, last time we talked to you, you actually made some statements that were pretty controversial at least even maybe even got you in a little bit of trouble. I don't know, But because you were on we were talking about what. Oh I think it was the year en. It couldn't have been that long ago. Oh

yeah, yeah it was, because I remember that show in January. At one point you asked me, Lee, what do you think is going to be the biggest story of twenty nineteen. Yeah, so I just automatically started talking about your funem materials and fragments and you know, who's doing what and

what could it possibly mean? And we were talking about it and people out there who were either listening to the show or listen to a rebroadcast of it, And like Ufo Joe, for example, who is a colleague of yours, and he likes to listen to programs of interviews and then go back and listen to the transcripts and he likes to transcribe them and put them on his

site his blog and make whatever his own comments are. And apparently he did that based on the conversation that I had with you and Martin about meta materials. And it didn't get me into any trouble with the scientists who James Fox and I interviewed on camera exclusively about the work that they're doing. I didn't mention any names or where we did the interview basically, which was in a very secret laboratory, and the amazing things that we saw at this location.

I was very careful not to mention those kinds of details. And at the end of UFO Joe's analysis of that, he said something like, well, Spiegl didn't mention any of the specifics, but if I was going to bet, he's probably talking about blah blah blah and blah blah blah. Okay. And so when I then sent that blog to producer James Fox, he got

really upset because he said, how could you let this information out? And I said, excuse me, James, if you go back and read this guy's article, I didn't let any information out, be very specific before you jump on me. I was very careful. And then he calmed right down and said, yeah, okay, we're good, We're fine. Yeah. He was just shock here. He didn't realize, and I think a lot of people don't realize. You know, how much information is out there if

you dig. And of course people like Joe are really good at doing that digging and what's so great about him, But and just so people are aware, I mean, that piece of information was just that that you, and you know, correct me if I'm wrong. Part in this documentary you will be covering some cases where they're going to be looking at anomaloust materials, which I kind of like that phrases meta materials has become popular, but it's so technical of a term, I think we have to be careful not to misuse

it. So and really what we're looking at is anomalous materials, but anyway, anomalous anomaloust materials being analyzed by credible labs that are not related to the stars that are going to be part of your film. That's right, And and I may have said this on the original interview we did, but what James and I were allowed to film was an actual the actual technology that is going to help to confess certain things about some of these fragments that come from

around the world that scientists have been able to get their hands on. Uh. And and based on the stories and the origins of these materials, we we don't yet know how much of this stuff comes from either real stories or

comes from things that are easily explained, for example. Then what they're what they're looking to analyze in the with the technology they've developed, is how to determine if any of these fragments were a either naturally formed here on Earth or were they manufactured by someone off the Earth, and if they were manufactured, what was the purpose of the manufacturing. And these scientists are being very careful not to even use the words extraterrestrial ets UFO like that. They're just saying,

we're just doing what we're doing as science. We have this material, we're using this contraption, this technology to really analyze this material, and once we get our information, we're going to give it to science. We're not going to hoard it for ourselves. We're going to release it so that other scientists everywhere who don't have the same technology that we're using, so that all these people can then take it and make their own conclusions, do their own

experiments. We're all we're doing is the initial work and then saying here, now you folks take it. We don't want it anymore. I mean, you know, they want to keep it nice and simple without making any crazy assumptions or speculations. It's like, here's what we've discovered. Now it's your turn. And that's what's exciting because that's exactly the way it should be done.

That's the right way to do it. I think that you know, I know who you're working with, and because I've been I've got to help with the production a little bit of this, and so I am privy to this knowledge. But the point is that they are people who are doing it right, and they have been very tight lipped and careful about what they've said publicly. And I think, and you personally, you know who these scientists are, so you can confirm when I say they're legitimate, they are legitimate.

Yeah, these are legit dudes. Yeah, exactly. But to the stars we've seen you know, there have been comments made occasionally, and I understand how it's hard, because you get people get so excited, but I think it's wiser just not to say anything because sometimes when you throw stuff out there, people get excited and make assumptions. So and that's probably why James

didn't want information out either, But yeah, because that can happen. But yeah, it's so exciting that we're at this point right now to have have these two different projects looking into this sort of thing. And I don't even know if it's just these two. I'm assuming that there are other big places around the world that are doing this kind of work because it's work. You know, It's not just scientists here in the United States. There are scientists

in many countries that would love to get their fingers onto this stuff. Now that now that now that it's no longer taboo to even talk about this stuff, and you know this, our audience and some of the audiences of our some of our few select friends are very lucky because they have us to ferret this information out to share with them. I hope that that's true, because it's really important, you know, to make sure that the audience or the

people the public in general get their information from good places. Every time I do a presentation somewhere, one of the first things that I say to people is, please don't get all of your UFO information just from watching ancient aliens. Please. You know, there are many places where you can go to, and I hopefully I'll steer you into different directions where you can continue beyond

what I'm saying to you all here. You can go do your own research, do some legwork so that tomorrow around the water cooler you'll be able to say something that will make great interesting water cooler conversation. Right right exactly, and I guess when it comes to the film. Now we know the name

of the film. Now it's called The Phenomenon, and we didn't know that before early on years ago and its first incarnation, it was going to be called the seven oh one, representing the seven hundred alleged you know, there's different numbers actually, but the seven hundred and one because this was said at one point unexplained cases from Project Bluebook. But out of this film, such as this material, about what percentage of that. Most documentaries are kind of

a rehash of stuff that's already been out there. But most of what you all are working on, and I think it's fair to say is new. Yes, a lot of the stuff is new. And in fact, you and your audience at next month's International UFO Congress in Phoenix, you're going to get a nice little preview because James Fox is one of your speakers, and he specifically he agreed to do that because he wants to talk about the documentary.

He hasn't really done that very much at all, But now we're getting so close to finishing it and having it be released to the public by the

end of this year. He's now ready and I think the UFO Congress will be the first place he's going to where he may even show some visuals about it on stage, and he will talk about some of the amazing people that we've interviewed for the project, including Nevada Senator Harry Reid, former White House Chief of Staff John Podesta, doctor Jacques Vallet, who was my first two

hour guest on Edge of Reality Radio just a few weeks ago. And we also will have several government and military officials in the film talking about the phenomenon like never before. It's going to open up people's minds to the fact that, Wow, we're looking at something that's really serious. I think in recent weeks and months because of shows like Unidentified on the History Channel that just had its first sixth episode arc. I saw all six episodes. I know you

did. I, except for a couple of things that I wasn't crazy about. I liked what they did. I liked a lot of the information that started to come out being very serious. They had people that were forthcoming in and out of politics and the military, and that's what people like you and me and other writers have been clamoring for to be able to give to the public. Here's here's another jet fighter pilot, here's another scientist, here's another

politician. The story that you jumped on of Congressman Mark Walker from from North Carolina, that's a story I'm interested in too. And you know, here's a guy who just sent a letter to the United States Navy Secretary basically saying to him, you know, all these pilots, these navy pilots, we've been hearing about it over the last few months, we've had UMFO encounters. What's up with that? And and is the investigation ongoing? What can we

expect? Will anything more be released? And this is the congressman who's basically saying, I want this I want this information now, as I understand it. Al Anjo didn't, didn't he. I think he wrote the letter at the end of July and or just like around July nineteenth or thereabouts, Yes, right, because then he went on to talk to Tucker Calson on Fox on the twenty ninth. So this letter has been out there since almost exactly a month ago. And I don't know unless you've heard anything different, and

I haven't. I've been looking. Has there been any response to that letter to the Secretary of the Navy right, there has not, and that is very interesting. I think that's a great point that you brought up, that there's not. And I love this letter because it's so well written. I mean, whoever did that obviously did their homework, because that letter hit on. I think if I were if they would have called me up and said, hey, we're writing this letter, what would you advise we put in

this letter? I don't think it would be much different in the way that they put it together. A couple of things that they gain exactly clear. But because they even called out, hey, if this advanced Aerospace thread identification program existed in the past, and you're saying you closed that program, that means that ever since you closed that program, you haven't been investigating these UFO cases that you say are so important. Why not you should be doing that.

So it's kind of calling them out. Of course, lou says the program does exist, So that's essentially causing them to say whether or not the program still exists, and they would have to admit it now. I again, luckily I get to see some stuff others don't. I've seen paperwork. I know this group exists still, or at least I know things continued, and so that information will come out eventually. I'm sure it will, just like you know, more and more information comes out as time goes along about

the background of the program. So that's great that he called him out on that to see what they say. Now, Unfortunately it's addressed to the Secretary of the Navy, who didn't have anything to do with a tip. But we'll see if there's a response. You would think they would have to have some kind of response, well, you know, And of course it's all part and parcel that this comes on the heels of all that news about how the Navy opened their mouths and said, we're about to change the policy reporting

guidelines of all Navy personnel who encountered UFOs, were changing our policies. Now, they didn't have to make that information public. They could have just not done that, you know, but they opened up a little can of worms just by letting us know, Oh, now the Navy's changing their policies. Gene, you wonder why, you know, they could have just kept quiet

and gone on to other regular Navy business. I would like to ask you about this because you've been doing this for so long, and you know, the Navy is kind of funny they make this statement, Okay, we take UFO seriously. We've got new reporting guidelines. You know, we don't mess

around when it comes to UFOs. Yeah, which is great for them to say, But they've never they've been one organization that has not shared practically anything about UFOs in the past, and now they're kind of pretending like, oh no, we're in the foreground. We're in the forefront of releasing information.

It's kind of funny. Well, you know what I like about this is that ever since December of twenty seventeen, when our friend Leslie Kane and two other folks from the New York Times wrote this now famous New York Times story about the Pentagon top secret UFO study, ever since that that kind of opened up and made it all a little bit of a game changer about UFOs. Nowhere in all of this it's been mayvy jet fighter pilots, maybe that USS

this carrier, USS NI MIT's carrier. But nowhere has the Air Force come out with any statements like that. It's like, ever since, ever since nineteen sixty nine when the Air Force closed Project Blue Book and said there's nothing here to see anymore, there's nothing here of any scientific evidence. We're not being visited by anyone. There's no evidence of extraordinary technology. Please everybody go

home. Been there, done that, And ever since then we haven't heard a peep from the Air Force, except for over the years when it kept coming up in the news and the Air Force had to keep coming up with new explanations of what happened at Roswell and you know again, and it was during all that time that the Navy wasn't saying anything. It was here's the Air Force just denying. They were denying and denying it. And now all of a sudden, as you say, here's the Navy coming out with this

information, but where's the Air Force? Because the Air Force realizes they must they must realize that everything that they wrote in their conclusions in nineteen sixty nine about them not being interested about anything to do with UFOs, well that was obviously a lie. And what can they say now about it when we now know it was a lie because there has been investigation about UFOs since then.

You know what I mean? Yes, I think you're exactly correct. And that's what's interesting is that, no doubt, their strategy has been to keep quiet and hope that this all blows over. But I don't think that it

is. I think that's the beauty and this is why, you know, people should be enthusiastic about too that Stars doing the work they do and keep putting pressure on these organizations so they can't just let it go, because if they continue to influence lawmakers like Walker to ask questions, then you know, they can't remain silent and they're going to have to be forced into to making some comments. And you know, certainly from what I understand, you know,

to the Stars is not going to let up on any pressure. I think that the Phenomenon documentary that you all put together will help and that you know, at some point, all these guys are going to have to start making comments. They're getting asked these questions in these important forums like the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado. You know, Brian Bender wrote about how her tweeted

and I wrote a story about it recently. How you know, one of the admirals was asked about UFOs there and even though the most of the people in the room laughed, the admiral did not, and he answered the question. So, yeah, this is this is not something that's going to go

away for these guys if we don't let it. But that gets me to a different topic then, unless you had any comments on that, Well, the other thing I was going to add to that is, it's funny how when that news broke in twenty seventeen, the Pentagon top secret investigation and you know, between two thousand and four and or whatever it was, and that ended supposedly ended in twenty twelve, and lou Alesando, a friend of yours

now, has said that it probably didn't end and is continuing. You know, those dates those years kind of stuck in my brain, and I did a little digging and found that something that the audience doesn't know about. My guest this week is going to be doctor John Alexander, another mutual friend of yours and mine now, Doctor Alexander. He's a former military insider. He had a top secret clearance and in nineteen eighty five, I think that's really

interesting. In eighty five he created a group called the Advanced Theoretical Physics Conference, and it included top level government officials and scientists who were brought together to study UFOs. And I was reading through some more stuff about them, and it's said among their conclusions. Number one, some UFOs are real and of

unknown origin. Number two, there have been incidents involving interactions between UFOs and military and number three, there have been interactions between UFOs and airplanes that raise safety issues. I mean, this is heady stuff, and that goes back to eighty five that Alexander was involved with that. So so, you know, I think the point that I'm trying to make is there have been military and scientific people, individuals and groups who have been studying this in one form

or another for years. This is nothing new, right, And you know my point has been, you know all along that although the Air Force used to give and the government gave them this impression up until recently that they had they didn't want anything to do with UFOs. They figured it out all out in nineteen sixty nine. There's nothing to it. They're not wasting their time with it. That's the message they've been giving us all from sixty nine up

until December twenty seventeen, that that has never been accurate. That the entire time. You can see this throughout the Blue Book project or all of their projects and up until the modern days, John Alexander being and a group that

you just mentioned being an example. There have been insiders that have not come to conclusions regarding UFOs and have been interested in UFOs a large percentage of them, not only when it came to Blue Book, people like even Rupelt who disagreed with, you know, the way leadership essentially handled the investigations, and

they've wanted investigations all along. So there have been UFO advocates on the inside, and finally, you know, one of those has come back, Louelzando, to say, hey, we did work investigating UFOs and we found credible

stuff here and people need to know about it. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I think, you know, you know, especially in this context, and it is a little bit your perspective from as a journalist as well, there are a group of people who are very critical of to the Stars, and I certainly do not discourage anyone from being critical and putting a you know, a skeptical eye towards any of this to make sure that everything's on

the up and up. But having said that, you know, some of these people see people like myself or George Knab or even Brian Bender who works for Politico, you know, would not care about any of this stuff as being led by to the Stars, and I think that if you wrote more about to the Stars, they'd probably put you in that group. I mean, do you see this as these people other than my cellphone, or if you want to include me as well, whatever, but as being led by

to the stars or just writing the news and telling the news. I think I know you. Sorry, We're gonna have to hold that question till the next thing because we've got to take a break right now. I just noticed that keep talking, so this exciting answer to this question will come right after this break. We're with Lee Spiegel. You're listening to Open Mind GFO Radio, and we'll be right back. We are back with Lee Spiegel, and we left you guys with a bit of a cliffhinger. I was asking Lee

his thoughts. You know, the coverage by those in the mainstream media who are covering to the Stars, like George Knapp and Brian Bender and Leslie Kane. Do they appear biased to you as a journalist or just people who are covering the story. I think because of my relationship with you and my friendship and also with George Knapp now and I appreciate what you guys have done and

or what Leslie Kane is doing. I believe that for the most part, you're not really giving us a line of crap of the things that you talk about or the right about. You're out there digging for information that you can just present in an unbiased way. That's kind of what I'm trying to do

too, you know. In my premiere episode of Edge of Reality Radio a few weeks ago, I told the listeners right at the top that no matter what we explore on the show, and I gave them a list, whether it's UFOs, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, strange creatures, ghosts and the possible survival of physical death or out of body experiences, time travel, current research into human consciousness, whatever I bring to the table in this show,

there won't be any room for ridicule of any kind. And I say to people, open minded skepticism is always the first course of business, and that I would open the lines, the phone lines, so the audience can communicate with the guests and me. I want people to ask questions, offer their

opinions, and tell us their stories. Now I know, al Anjo, I think, is it at the top of your of your Open minds UH site on Facebook where you you lay out the rules there of you know, we're we're not going to accept certain kinds of behavior on this website, right, anybody in our Open Mind GFO news group we have that. Yeah. And and just the fact that you do that, that you're laying out these rules and regulations of if you want to participate in what we're trying to accomplish

here, then you're all welcome. But the moment you start like going off the deep edge and start ridiculing people or making fun or doing any kind of slander, that's not what we're about. Yeah, No, and right, so you you don't you don't slander people. George Knapp doesn't Sclan slander people. I don't believe Leslie Kine has. My good friend James Fox and and you and I know other writers in the field who I could say that about. You know, and there are out there who have these ongoing YouTube and

online websites and they're always adding things every single day. Pictures, videos, speculation, Oh what's that thing in the distance near the Martian Rover curiosity must be a Martian tower or you know, we see these every day and those are the people. And I'm not naming any names because I don't have to. It wouldn't be appropriate. I'm just saying there's a lot of stuff out there that's being put out there by people who don't care about the truth.

They only care how many hits they get and what can they possibly sell in their store. Yeah, exactly, And I guess before I want to talk a lot about your show. We'll spend the rest of the time talking on your show. But one more question, especially talking about what we're talking about we have been talking about. I don't think it's wrong for people that are into UFOs and the topic to root for to the stars or myself, because

I admit that I do. I as a journalist, I take my responsibility very seriously to keep an eye for the truth and to expose and share information, no matter how uncomfortable it is, if it's a fact, and no matter who it is, that's our job as reporters. But there's no It's just like NASA, you know, I root for NASA because they're doing cool stuff in space. Would I write about improprietaries or if I came across some

kind of problem, Heck yeah I would. Because when we're criticizing them, We're making them a better organization, especially for calling out something they're doing that's bad. And the same goes for To the Stars. We would do that for if it was them as well. So I don't know, I don't What I'm saying is I don't think it's wrong for us to want to root for Two the Stars, just like we would root for NASA, even if we were right expose any issues with them. It's not, it's not.

Do you feel that it's a problem for us to root as journalists for To the Stars? Well, I don't know. If that I would use the word root, I would. I always like to kind of hold back information about anything or anybody or any group that comes at us kind of out of nowhere. With new information like this, I would much rather kind of sit back and watch it evolve a little bit in the media to see what's going

on with them. And it took for me, it took several months before I started to believe that what Tom DeLong was doing was kind of righteous. And you know, I'm a little biased in my own right because back in nineteen seventy eight, when I was trying to get people behind my effort to bring UFOs to the United Nations. I faced a lot of that kind of thing that I'm sure Tom faced in getting close to the various military and government

people that he needed in order to move this thing forward. I was in that sense, I was rooting for him because I've been hoping for years someone else would come along and do this, you know, because I mean, I remember how much energy it took out of me all those years ago to do this whole thing at the UN, and I can only imagine how it must be even more energy depleting for Tom DeLong to have gotten as far as

he has. So at this point, I tip my hat to him, and I think what he's doing is a great job, even just to get as far as he's gotten, to bring people who I'd like to have on my show, you know. And so yeah, I think it's good to stay cautious racially when we suddenly hear about a new person or a new organization has come out that's really going to get it to the public. I want to make sure that I feel comfortable about it before I do any personal reporting

on it myself. And I think you probably feel the same way about it. Yeah, Yeah, that makes sense. I just kind of wanted to get your sense because I don't feel, and I don't think any of us feel like we are just blindly accepting everything that you know is coming out of two stars, right, we're looking at it being critical and sharing. But the interesting story here is that these guys are making this sort of progress, and this is progress, like you say, we've been looking for and you've

been looking for. And I think, you know, people may say, what is he talking about, Like he's the only one who's done this, But I think it's fair for you to say, because you guys took this really far. When you took it all the way to the UN. You were on the UN floor presenting UFO information to the general session there and that's not happened since, and that's very important. You know. It took it took literally, it took forty years to actually get the video of the footage

of the UN presentation. And I didn't find it. It was James Fox's sister, Kelly. She was already mean looking. She was helping us with a documentary and she was tasked with the work of going out there and getting interesting archival footage of things related to UFOs that had never been seen before that

we could use in our documentary. And she went on to this one site that was owned by CBS and she came upon a little thing in the table of contents and all that it said was UFO Secret meeting or something like that. And unbeknownst to me, I didn't know she found this. She opened it up, looked at it, and sent it to James in San Francisco. She said, I don't know if this is something you guys are interested in, but here's some video I found on this website. He looks like

something big was going on at the United Nations. Do you want me to see if I can get it? And apparently James looked at it and he called me, and all that he said to me was what have you been looking for for forty years? And I think I said, said, you were like that sock you found my sock? Well, no, I mean, I didn't want to say anything like I'm looking for a good wife. Just give me a good wife. But no, I said, well, the only thing I've been really looking for is any lead to my United Nations

presentation. And he said, we got it. I said, are you kidding me? He said, I'm sending you a sample of her right now, and what he sent me it blew my mind. And I only saw part of it at that point, and we had to go through a lot of twists and turns and somersaults to get the guys at CBS to relinquish the high definition film footage that they had of the presentation, because it was their attitude initially that was that will they have it so they own it? And

I thought, I don't know. That just doesn't sound right to me, and I dug out in my archives al angel from nineteen seventy eight a letter that was written by the country of Grenada, because Grenader was the proposal and presentation sponsor of the presentation in seventy eight, Grenada sent me a letter.

Well, that letter that was sent to me, and it was also sent to all members of the media in nineteen seventy eight basically said to anyone in concern of this, the Country of Grenada hereby gives authorization to film the upcoming UFO presentation in November of this in nineteen seventy eight. The rights are given to mister Lee Spiegel. And that was enough said, and I took the

letter. I made a lot of copies of it. I kept it all these years, and then I sent it to James last year up in San Francisco, and I said, hold on to this letter in case we need to prove this at all. But in the meantime, I got in touch with the United Nations Public Affairs Archive Library, and I got friendly with one of the folks there, and I said, do you have anything still in

your records there at the library of a presentation that was done. I gave them the exact date in November nineteen seventy eight, the room where the presentation occurred, the time of day it started, I mean, I gave them all the details. And they got back to me about a week later and they said, well, unfortunately, we don't always keep everything that's filmed at the United Nations. Over the years, things have actually been deleted for various

reasons, so we can't find that one. And I said, well, I have found the presentation, but CBS Media is claiming that they own it, and would that be correct if it was something that was shot at the United Nations. They did a little more investigating and got back to me and said, actually, no, anything that's shot here at the UN on our property. We are the copyright owners of it, and we would like to help you, you know, retrieve this so that it's yours. I said,

I love you. What do we have to do? And they sent me a whole bunch of forms to fill out that would basically be a form from the UN to me and to anyone else who's out there looking at it, saying that this UFO documentation presentation is of under the copyright of the UN and mister Lee eas Spiegel is the only other partner in connection with this that we are allowing who can use it, and we are charging him zero dollars for the footage because the CBS people they were going to charge us upwards of

one hundred dollars per second. Oh my gosh. Oh yeah, and this is like an hour and a half presentation, So do the math? Are you kidding? Yes? So we worked it all out. I sent the letter, and the UN sent the letter to the folks at CBS, and so the guys at CBS called us and said, okay, you've got it. What format do you want it in? And we hope you enjoy it And we didn't have to pay anything for it. Yeah, that is so exciting. And see, this is when when we're sitting on secrets, you

know, my goal is always to get those secrets out. How do we make the situation should we can share this information? And I get excited when we can share because this is a story I haven't shared that you guys got this video, and I don't think you have either. I think you asked me not to, so this might be another scoop that, yeah, you

might be right. We decided we were just going to wait and we're going to show portions of it in the documentary because you know, we can't show an hour and a half presentation because we only have a few minutes at the most to use. So I've been discussing with James and we're kind of tossing around the idea of making it maybe as like an hour and a half special add on feature to the documentary people, which you definitely should, or provide

it some way. But I just want to kind of emphasize how important this is and how cool this is because this footage has been lost to history up until now, and now you all have footage of this nineteen seventy eight presentation you give gave on UFOs where doctor j Allen Heinik was there. Jacques Valet, you can mention so many letters. Colonel Larry Coyne, helicopter pilot where you could have heard a pin drop at the un when he told his complete

story of almost colliding with the UFO in nineteen seventy's. Yeah, and you've got footage of that, And does it look good in the sam good and everything? It's great, it's great. I think I even sent you maybe a couple of seconds of some of that footage. Yeah, it's beautiful. The audio quality is great, and it's like nobody else has this, and we're so proud that we've got this. It's just amazing. And it literally

took forty years before I got it. So you know, you wait, you waited out long enough, and you put enough feelers out there and I guess you get back what you put into it or something like that. Yeah, very very proud to have it, that's all I can say. So awesome. That's extremely exciting. So let's get into the news too, or at least some of I mean, your show is what I meant. Let's

get into the news. Sure, So your show, your show, Edge of Reality Radio with Lee Spiegel. It's on live eight pm Eastern on KGr A Radio. And so I'm assuming you take calls. Yes, we've just started taking the calls. They're using a new system out there in Salt Lake City where the main studio is. And you know, it actually isn't a new show. It's really a resurrection of a talk show I hosted over thirty years ago, which was called, coincidentally, the Edge of Reality. I

did that on NBC Radio. That even came about because when NBC heard that I was doing this UFO event at the un they asked me if I'd be interested in coming on the air every night to broadcast UFO reports. How could I say no? And that led me to being on the air with NBC for eight years and and ending my NBC career with Edge of Reality. So I'm so happy to be bringing Edge of Reality back now in the new format. So that's really exciting that you have the show now and you've done what

three episodes now so far. The first one August first was my guest was appropriately and happily, doctor Jacques Valet. And as you know, Jacques and I have been friends for over forty years since he was one of my speakers at the nineteen seventy eight UFO presentation, and when I asked, when I told him that I was going to be doing a new radio show, and would he consider coming on the first show, he said, Oh, yes, I would love to do that. Just just give me the date and

the time and I'll be there. So happy that he did that, and it was great, and I was thrilled to bring him on the air like that because he doesn't do a lot of radio right now, kind of laying low. Yeah. Yeah. And he has a reason too, because there are a lot of people who are after him about some of the work that

he's doing now in and out of the UFO community. And he's a venture capitalist out of Silicon Valley, so he needs to be a little careful about what he talks about because he has his own reputation as well to maintain. Right. So that's exciting, And you're not only covering UFOs on your show. It appears right, Oh, that's right, you know. The let's see in the second show. Let's see what I did in the second show. Well, another good friend of ours, our mutual friend, Ben Hanson,

was on the first hour of the show. Ben is the leader of a team that's been investigating a whole series of paranormal experiences on a Travel Channel series and it's called Ghosts of Morgan City. And Ben's crew came up with a pretty amazing apparition walking through a house and they caught it from two different

angles. That's really unique. It's a unique piece of evidence because they completely worked around the idea that it was either a phony apparition someone else get into the house, it was someone they didn't know, it was part of the crew making a joke. That was all ruled out, and Ben himself was freaked out, and so we gave a link for people who wanted to actually

see the apparition. It's quite something to look at. And what I did was for the second hour of that show, I interviewed one of the scientific researchers who will soon reveal what they say is something called a soul phone. Soul phone as in an actual device that they're suggesting will begin to allow community locations between living persons and the dearly departed. Now that's amazing. Come on, that's that's amazing. What can I say? Ohen He says he's gonna

like this is something that he's going to be releasing. Yeah. In fact, the lead researcher is a scientist with impeccable credentials as doctor Gary Schwartz. He's with the University of Arizona. You may even know this man from your roots in Arizona. They've been doing laboratory experiments there and coming up with amazing pieces of evidence that can somehow prove that there was other energy involved in a

controlled laboratory situation. But this soul phone thing is going to take it to another level and they will release that information in the fall, when doctor Schwartz's a new book is going to come out about it and he's going to come

on the edge of reality. But in the meantime, I had his partner, doctor Mark Pittstick, talking about this and a thing called the Soul Phone Foundation, where they're beginning to let people know that it's entirely possible and how amazing this would be for all people on the planet if it could be proven that there is life after death. Yeah. I used to know a guy in Colorado who was working on the same sort of thing. He had a

bunch of interesting stories. I forgot what they called it, the using technology to talk to to the past. They had a term for it. But yeah, I knew a guy who worked on that sort of thing. And are you talking about the thing called EVP it's electronic voice phenomena. Oh okay, Now there was something else, trans something I can't remember the name of it, but where they were building like soul phones, kind of like you're

talking about. Oh yeah, I've said for years that, in my opinion, there are two questions topics that all humans, at some point in their lives, anywhere where they live, all humans wonder about the answers to one of two questions. One question is are we alone in the universe and all what all that means? And have we been visited? Are we being visited? There's a big question. And the other question is what happens at the

point of death? Do we survive death? I can't think of any other topics Alejando that people wonder about more in the scheme of things, you know, m yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now, so how do you feel about this technology? You think that it's legit or you're probably more like me. Well, it's like my attitude is like it was with Tom DeLong and to the stars. I know who these researchers are. I interviewed doctor Gary Schwarz about nine years ago for one of my Huffington Post stories

when he was doing this the early research. And he is a legitimate scientist. He has impeccable credentials. And so I'm holding off my feelings about this until the next interview, and it's not even the next interview. I would like to be somewhere where they may have a strong signal or a strong connection somewhere to get some voice communication. I mean, who wouldn't who wouldn't want to be there? And if something like this, this is like, this

is like the whole ball of wax. Like it's like it's like if a UFO literally landed on the White House lawn and we all know about it. That's that's it. That's the end of the game. We are now welcome into the Galactic Federation. Yeah, it's very interesting, and I am like you, I'm like, you know, hey, these guys are legit, So if anybody's going to do it, it's going to be someone along these

lines. But still, it's such an incredible claim that you know, we have to see I guess, absolutely incredible and then last week I had on a man who I hadn't interviewed in almost ten years and one of the very first books I ever bought when I started looking into UFOs way back in nineteen seventy three, a book I bought called The Bible and Flying Saucers and I

just ate that book up. I thought the premise of the book was amazing, and not only because it was just another author, but the author the Reverend doctor Barry Downing, a retired Presbyterian minister who earned his PhD at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland. Again impeccable credentials. We're talking here, and he's listed in Who's Who in theology. It's like when you get people like this who are brave enough to put some ideas down of what they think based

on research they've done over many years. I'm one of those who wants to hear about their research. Yeah, you know, I'm not going to just you know, listen to anybody else who I've never heard of before. And doctor Downing gave me such a good interview last thursday. I was amazed at all the things that he was saying, and he had very little support, not only from friends, but from members of the church who knew what he was doing and knew about the book he was going to put out. Now

that was like fifty years ago. That's the kind of anniversary he just celebrated for that book. Really, people did not want to support him or his ideas. And we only had one caller that night. And during one of the commercial breaks, I said to Reverend Downing, I said, you know, I'm a little surprised we're not getting very many callers, because I would have thought this topic would have opened up all kinds of people out there.

And he said, well, don't be surprised. It's been my experience that a lot of people in and out of the church are very reluctant and very uncomfortable to talk about the possibility that a lot of events in the Old and the New Testaments had something to do with UFOs. People don't want to talk about that. Yeah. Wow, pretty wild topic. Yeah, And so so far, I'm the shows have been great. And as I said before, I've got Doctor Alexander coming on and we're going to talk about things that

This man is a world global adventurer. He's been to every continent in almost every country, and he has seen things and been privy to things in places like villages, hidden villages in the Amazon jungle who allowed he and his wife to go there and witness amazing almost magical spiritual rituals that other white people or people from outside of the villagers were allowed to see, and they were allowed

to film these things. I mean, he's seen has nothing to do with UFOs, but wow, has his eyes seen many things out there, and we're going to talk about that, not just UFOs. That's exciting. So your show now that we're pretty much out of time, of course, your website is Leasbegle dot com, but your show can be heard on KGr A. People can go to KGr Aradio dot com and look at the and find you in the show's listings there. But Edge of Reality is the show,

and congratulations on getting that rolling. So that's probably been pretty fun for you. It is. It's fun. I had forgotten how long it takes to prepare a two hour show. Yeah, but no, I'm into it. I'm pacing myself and once I'm right at the top of the hour and I know that the microphone is on and I can start talking, I can totally relax at that point because I feel like, wow, here we are again, thirty years later, and how much fun is this? Yeah, yeah,

yeah, exactly, so cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show again. It's always good to get an update from you in what you're up to, and of course I wanted to share with everybody that you got this great new show now. Thank you. I appreciate it. Alejandro. Congratulations to you and the upcoming UFO Congress. I know you're you're hot and heavy, deep and thick of the middle of it all right now, getting ready for it exactly. So I've got to get back to

working on that right now. In fact, Karen came in and was like, oh, we got something else to do, so there's always something with that thing. Congratulators, see you and to Karen for pulling this off. I congratulate you both. Thank you so much, and thank you so much for being on the show. And well, hopefully it won't be too long till we have you back. I know it sounds great. Thanks ale Handra. Thank you so much to Lisepiegel for joining us once again. He's always

a lot of fun and wealth of information. You can check his website out at Leaspiegel dot com, or you can also go to KGr A and look for Edge of Reality, or you could google any of those things and it'll take you right to him. But definitely check out his new show. It's really good stuff, and you're gonna need a replacement because brace yourselves. I'm not going to have a show for the next couple of weeks, next few

weeks because it's that time of year. It's the International UFO Congress, and as many of you know, I'm usually too busy with the conference to do podcasts for the couple weeks before, So you're just gonna have to hold tight, or go ahead and go to Ufocongress dot com, get your tickets, and come join us at the Congress. It's that easy. If you're Jones and for hanging out with me talking UFOs or hearing me talk UFOs, then just come to the Congress. It's that easy. So Ufocongress dot com,

so be sure to go there, get your tickets or come. It's going to be a ton of fun and a lot of what we talked about on the show was the Phenomenon documentary. I don't even know if we talked about how that's the title of James Fox is in Lispiegel's documentary The Phenomenon. So if you want to hear more about that, of course, we're going to have James Fox at the conference talking about it, giving some sneak peeks and

giving us all the latest and greatest on that. So otherwise, I'll probably have some articles and comments out on social media still, so you can follow me on my Patreon or my social media and we'll still have some conversation going on there. The conversation never ends, and I feel like I'm pretty sure there's going to be new revelations coming every moment. In fact, I know right now you can go to my Twitter and see some late breaking news.

Lots of cool stuff going on. Anyway, thank you very much to Lisepiegel for joining us. Thank you to Martin Willis of podcast UFO for joining us at the beginning of the show. With the news. Remember you can go to Openminds dot tv and see all that news right on the front page. And you know, actually, if you go to the dropdown for the articles, you'll find UFO news headlines, and there are a bunch of headlines there

that go back for a long time. It's a great research tool to see all the headlines going back for years, so go check that out at Openminds dot tv. Otherwise, that is it for this show. Thank you to Caleb Hey, thanks for the opening and close music. Thank you to Systematics for the bumper music. And remember be sure to join us at the UFO Congress. So once again UFO Congress dot com to see everything going on there. Until next time, Audio's mood Chuchos and you mus