Lee Speigel, UFO Journalist/Researcher

Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO News authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Roha. Thank you, mister Dean, Hello and welcome to open Minds Radio, your UFO news authority. If we say it, we mean it, and that is the last word. Now, we're not like that. We're not like one of those Fox News thinks where they're like, oh, I know everything and you have to listen to me. Nah,

you know, you make up your mind. But we're going to give you a lot of great information and keep you informed so you can make your own informed decision. That is the American democratic way. Some people seem to forget to get all lost, and we can't be the socialists. We're democrats and that's what we do here at Open Minds support democracy and we talk UFOs. Today we're going to be talking UFOs with Lee Spiegel. He is a writer for the Huffington Post. He's been in this field for quite some time.

We'll talk to him about the un Initiative. Back in nineteen seventy eight, we talked a bit about that with Antonio Juneios, who also wrote about it in our magazine. But actually Lee Spiegel had a lot to do with putting that whole thing together, So we'll talk to him about that and all of those details. We'll also talk about the Huffington Post, which he's been writing in, which is great because the Huffington Post is a nationally syndicated it's national,

big time online. I mean, they're a news giant, and it's great to have conventional media letting Lee cover UFOs. So he also has got to interview a lot of people that were on the History Channel show just the other day, and he will talk about you know, what he talked about with those people, and he's been writing some stories about those on the Huffington Post. So this is going to be a great show. I also want to thank George Napp, another great journalist out there, who had Antonio and

I on Coast to Coast AM last night. That was very cool, a lot of fun. I love George. He's just a great journalist and it's wonderful to be able to talk to him about all the latest in UFO news. Luckily, you guys get to keep up to date on it. You don't have to wait for us to be on coast to coast every three months or so. You get all the news right here on a weekly basis. We also have it on our website on a daily basis because we are flipping

so cool. And one of the flipping cool people who help us get the news out to you on a regular basis is our news correspondent. Who is here today to tell us about the UFO news this week. The gentleman I speak of is none other than mister Jason MacLellan. How are you, sir? Good? I gave you a pretty long intro there, Yeah, and you are full of flattery, my friend. Well, people got to understand you know how important you know all this is? Well, this all is

important. Yes, I myself am not important. Oh cut it out, all right, Well, let's do this. This is your Open Minds News UFO News Brief for Monday, August twenty ninth, twenty eleven. Internet giant Google wants to be prepared for any disaster that could possibly materialize, including an extraterrestrial invasion. Does Google knows something the rest of us don't, probably not

Google it. But according to Next the Next Web Aaron Fiom, Google's Enterprise director of security recently revealed that the company's emergency preparedness plan tries to include a wide variety of disaster scenarios. In an interview with computer World, Freigenbaum stated, we play a lot of games here. Part of our disastery recovery plan is to assume the worst has happened. In last year's scenario, Google was attacked by aliens in California was off the map. We asked, what can

we do? How do we run our infrastructure? And the inclusion of an alien attack in Google's disaster planning isn't too shocking, because, as we talked about last week and the week before and the week before, this theme of these evil aliens attacking us is unfortunately quite popular right now. Yeah, it's a very big thing. And of course there's a story you talked about last week where NASA was said to have written this report, but it wasn't NATAI.

It was a nasty sucientist, right. But regardless, they're talking about some of those types of scenarios. So scientific research, articles, television shows, movies, they're all doing. This. Alien in Asian seems to be on their minds for some reason, at least they they'll pretend to be ready. They can hire someone who in these teugh economic times, who can have a job figuring all this out. Oh yeah, Like I said at Google, I'm sure they've got a bunch of gamers work in there. And yeah,

well let's play some alien games. We're gonna shoot them with lasers. Work that into our serious work. Yeah yeah, somebody got paid big for that. Yep. Well, there's been a lot going on in the television world, and the Sci Fi Channel has announced yet another television series that will explore the topic of UFOs. Paranormal Witness will use what are claimed to be true stories to present accounts of UFO sightings in addition to other paranormal encounters.

This is how the series is described on the Sci Fi's website. Don't Watch it Alone. Paranormal Witness is an intense, cinematic, high octane drama documentary series. The show brings to life the true stories of people who have lived through explanation defying paranormal experiences. Using a mixture intimate firsthand testimony, personal photos, and real footage combined with gritty, realistic drama, Paranormal Witness will transport

you into a world turned upside down by ext extraordinary and terrifying events. Sli FI already airs a number of shows that explore UFOs and another paranormal phenomena, include Factor Fake, Paranormal Files, and that has Ben Hanson on it, who was a guest earlier this year on Open Minds Radio, and he will also be speaking at the twenty twelve International UFO Congress here in February. But this series, Paranormal Witness will premiere on Wednesday, September seventh, so check

your local listings for times on that. And judging by the previews, I can't tell if this is going to be a good show or not. It seems to be super hyped up drama. Yeah, really hyped up, you know, and this is the sort of thing we investigate and we live with, and it's not really you know, it gets exciting at times, but typically it's not that great. Certainly, a lot of their hyped up stuff that they're pushing hard seems to be you know, more paranormal ghost things with

chairs flying across rooms and things like that. But they claim they're going to use some real footage, you know, so hopefully they'll have some real footage, real UFO footage and some even real some ghost footage. But I think they're also gonna have a lot of reenactments too. That's that's what the previews led me to believe, because it's super drama. Yeah, well that's cool. We'll see what they do. I mean, it could be funs our

fingers and hope for the best. Again. It's supposedly based off of true stories, so that could be interesting well. Also on television, nuclear physicist and UFO researcher Stan Friedman was a guest on MSNBC's Dylan Raggan's Show a couple of weeks ago to lend his opinion regarding the upcoming movie of Pollow eighteen and the conspiracies associated with the mission that was allegedly scrapped by NASA. The Joy Behar Show on CNN's HLN hosted a panel of guests last Wednesday to discuss UFOs

and the exist since of extraterrestrials. This panel included journalist Leslie Kane, former Ministry of Defense, UFO researcher Nick Pope, filmmaker James Fox, and former Arizona Governor Fife Symington. The History Channel aired a two hour special on Thursday night titled Secret Access UFO's on the Record, based on Leslie Kane's New York

Times bestseller UFOs Generals, pilots and government officials go on the Record. Kane explained to The Huffington Post the theme of the program is that UFOs exist, but there's a small percentage of sightings that are significant and haven't been explained. Secret Access UFOs on the Record, which can already be pre ordered on DVD in the History Channel's online store, was followed by a new episode of Ancient

Aliens that explored the connection between extraterrestrials and rituals performed by humans. While the UFO subject is being addressed in television specials and news programs, it's not a new occurrence. But I don't know, would you agree with me on this that it seems even slightly that the attitude of the media seems to have shifted slightly where it seemed to be taking the subject slightly more seriously as we progress.

I think, I personally think so. I think it's been a slow, gradual thing where it used to be the norm, where everything was tongue in cheek and made to look silly, but these days it's just the opposite. I think, you know, we won't look at the news all the time. Most of these stories, or at least fifty percent, are taken pretty seriously. You know. They just talk about the UFO siding or the event that's happened, and they don't make fun of it. Sure there's a

lot that do, but not all of them. And for instance, in these History Channel specials with this show with Leslie Kanan, really most of her coverage except for you know, when she was on that it was a Comedy Central show Stephen Colbert, yea and Stephen Colbert, which is supposed to be funny. You know, it was taken very seriously. So I personally think so, I think it continues to get better and better. Well, even when they were on the when this panel was recently on The Joy Behar Show.

You know, it's usually a very comedic show, and that's the point of the show. You know, they do a lot of entertainment news and things like that. But and granted Joy Behart wasn't there. They had a fill in host, but overall it was the subject was treated very seriously. You know. There were some other questions thrown in, like what do you

think of crop circles and things like that. They didn't necessarily relate to what this panel was talking about, but overall, the subject was addressed seriously, and this History Channel special Secret Access UFO is on the record was done very professionally, and you know, Leslie got to talk quite a bit Nick Pope. I mean, these experts were featured prominently and basically the facts were just

delivered. It was really cool and it was a really interesting show to watch because it's different from a lot of the other things out there, and these are the perfect people to present it because they stick to hard facts, you know what, we know what we condemned, not a lot of information that is just speculation. So I love that about them. So I think it's

great. I always I'm really happy with all of the attention that Leslie's work has been getting right, and it's my opinion that I think Leslie Kane managed to pull off what I think for intent was with that special and that is to highlight the importance of that we do need some sort of official organization to be looking into UFOs, because that's really what you pushed in this pointing out that yes, there are things in our sky we have proof of this,

but there isn't an organization that people can go to that is a signed to investigate this. We have our move ons and our other organizations to report things, but we don't have an official group that's going out in actually investigating this.

Yeah, I think the problem with a lot of governmental level well and the resources, you know, with the projects that get done at universities or governmental levels, they get a lot of funding and then you have a lot of resources, a lot of equipment that can be spent, and people full time you know, working on these issues. We haven't really had that, and you know, if we did, we would get a lot further I

think, and that's what she's talking about, even with mouf On. It's everybody working when they can in their own time, and these are all people with families, with jobs, so that very little time gets to be actually put towards towards these efforts. So a full time, you know, backed organization, private or I think a university would be best. That'd be great

if it was a real something they took serious. I agree, But bottom line, I do think these these television shows are in news programs, you know, are moving in the right direction and the subject is being taken more seriously, which is a wonderful thing to see. Yeah, ye, well, I'm going to talk about fireballs. I don't think I talked about fireballs last week, but we talked about fireball with a lot, and I've got more fireballs to talk about. A burning fireball was seen shooting across the sky

and Cusco, Peru, on Thursday, and was recorded on video. Many fireball UFOs have been reported this year from all around the world, including Mexico, Scotland, and the United States. According to CBS News, this latest fireball UFO in Peru is suspected to be a meteorite plunging to the Earth, but no positive identification has been made. And there was also a fireball in Auckland, New Zealand. An unusual light was seen in the sky above Auckland

on Saturday evening. Auckland now describes the descending point of light, which revealed the U shaped nimbus when it zoomed in on. Was filmed in the sky west of Auckland about six pm on Saturday. A witness recorded the video of the strange lights that burned through the evening sky and in the video, the witness states that the object is back, indicating that the flaming object has previously

appeared in the air. But according to Auckland, now astronomers say the light in the sky was probably not a UFO comet or rogue planet about smashing to the Earth, but rather the contrail of of a plane heading out over the

Tasman Sea. So the it seemed with this one, with the Auckland sighting, that the or astronomers they actually convinced to lend their opinion on this sighting were kind of annoyed by it, and that came across right away, so they really had to push to get some astronomer to to talk about that came back kind of jokingly with their response. Really, that's frustrating. I mean

that's their job. I mean, there's supposed to be experts on things in the sky right space, and and you know, it's possible that they were somewhat frustrated because I think there were a lot of people commenting on this particular video with things talking about, you know, plan in a planet that would smash or something exactly. Yeah, so I think they kind of got frustrated

with that and didn't want to waste their time addressing crazy theories. But yeah, you know what, I think this is incredible though, yet another fireball, maybe two, the one in Peru is a great video to add to a bunch that we've had this summer. I mean, this has been the summer of fireballs. It's been the Euar of fireballs. Well started in March, I think when we started really seeing a bunch, and then March,

June, July, July especially there were quite a few. This is probably like the eighth recorded fireball, and at least maybe the third or fourth maybe more that was videotaped right in a very good way where you can clearly see this strange object. Yeah, and I certainly think that there are quite a few of these, or at least some of these that are definitely planes in the sky because contrails with the sun, we've seemed demonstrated, can do some

bizarre things that you wouldn't suspect. So the plane can actually be out of the sunlight setting sun while the contrails are illuminated, so increases weird looking thing in the sky. But others, and many of these other fireball UFO videos are just completely bizarre. Yeah, as if you know, is it a

function of where we're seeing more of these fireballs right now. I think it's starting to seem like that, or is it that there's more people out there videotaping, But there's been people videotaping over the last several years, where we only seem to beginning this in the last year, especially this summer, So it does seem like an increase of these fireballs. I think this is really strange. Really, it really is something to keep an eye on. Yeah,

definitely, and we are doing just that exactly. Well. Again, something that seems to be on the rise, that is UFOs in New Zealand. I've got another UFO sighting in New Zealand here. This one wasn't a fireball, but it was described as they large glowing ball and it was seen on Tuesday night in the sky above Taradale, a town in the Hawk's Bay region of New Zealand. Resent Calvin Steel grabbed his camera as soon as he noticed the strange light in the sky and he was able to get the object

on video. He explained that the objects seemed to pulsate and it split into two objects. These objects just hovered in the sky, then following a flash, they were gone. Hawk Bay's Whole Planetarium director and a starmer, Gary sparks As, suggested the objects could have been space junk, but the witness disagrees, explaining that there was no indication of disintegrating debris and the objects simply appeared to be hovering. They weren't moving it all. And gotta say the

video is not really worth watching it all. You can't make anything out from au radio that most of the videos him trying to focus on this object, so it's only slightly in focus at the end of the video and you can see these two distinct lights. But that's it. But going on his description that these lights were one object, a pulsating object and splitting into two and then after a flash they vanished, that's an interesting sighting mm hmm, yeah,

especially given his testimony. Right and again after the unfortunately low quality video. That's all we've got to go on. Yeah, but you should. You should see the video, at least the still from the from the video. I've seen this still, which is pretty interesting now because there are two objects you can see one is i think one is red, and one is white. But they seem to have some defined shape to them, possibly a defined shape where the shape is the same. So it could have been a

movement of solid points of light. That is absolutely possible. Yep. Well one hundred. That is all the news I have for today. Well, there's something else we need to talk about. Let's talk about something else, Dale. I forgot Dale's picture. We haven't talked about that yet. Well, I don't know. If you want to tease people, we don't have it here the show for people watching on the well, people go online to our face check our facebooks, yea, any of our facebooks. Jason's open

Minds is what his, Maureen's is Maureene open Minds. Or go to the UFO Sinc Tank, slash open Minds Radio or my uh Facebook and you'll see this absolutely incredibly cool picture done by Dale Hendrickson, who is a character designer for The Simpsons, and a test and it's it's me going here like this and Maureen with a laser and she's some sort of alien, but I mean a very curvy, well drawn alien. Well, it's gonna shoot us what she is. She is an alien, So it's an accurate representation. I

mean, that's that's not weird. Although she said she's protecting us, which I think is better think of because in the drawing she's sort of hovering here at the table with the gun making sure that Amida protecting us or making sure that we stay on time. I don't know, right, I don't know what she's doing, but the I'm very happy she doesn't really have a laser when she's in here, because I probably would have a couple laser holes. I think she'd be trigger happy. That is true. One right here,

be able to see right through my forehead. But many, many, many many thanks to you, Dale, We appreciate it so much. Again. To show my appreciation, next not next week, but the week after, I will be on the show with a coffee mug that has the picture on it. Oh really, so that will be the coffee mug I use on the show. Wow, proudly displaying our work of art from our friend Dale. Yeah, you're gonna come to our houses and you're going to see everything

with this picture on it because it's so cool. Sorry, Dale, we love it that much. Yeah, we just love it, love it, love it. Thank you so much, And of course heard from a lot of people who love it too, because it's so funny and it's so cool that is right well, Alehandra, thank you for letting me be here. That is it for the news. Remember to check out these stories and more

at open minds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. I'm Jason McLellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to you all are right. Thank you, Jason. You know, something someone asked about in the chat was about the Roswell material and I've had some other people ask about that with Frank Kimbler because he was going to get it looked at again. He's still in the process of working that out, so working out

with a different because it's complicated. You got to work with the lab, you got to work with the people who are fronting the money. And so he's working on all of that to get a sense. So that's still being done and I'll let you know when that happens. Otherwise. Some of the other stories that you can find on our website are just today I've posted one

about a box shape UFO report from New Hampshire in nineteen sixty six. This story was put together by Michael Stratt, but it's actually from the Nightcap files and the Kufos UFO files, and that's a very interesting story. It comes with some great artistic renderings of this UFO. This gentleman claimed to have seen that is very boxy in shape, and it supposedly land had landed on the ground. He saw it, it raised up and kind of moved and landed

again. And very interesting sighting and cool pictures and very strange shape. Someone was pretty funny when we posted it. He wrote that perhaps they were so excited when they got their new spaceship that they left it in the cardboard when they flew it around, because it looks like a cardboard box, so pretty

funny. Also, we have a lot of information on Bud Hopkins because unfortunately, as we told you last week, Bud Hopkins has passed away, and that happened last Sunday, so just a little more than a week ago.

Well, we were able to find a video in our archives, and actually it was something that was provided by Marizio Baiata, who used to work here with us, and it's an interview he did in Italy in nineteen ninety seven with Bud Hopkins that hasn't been seen really here in the United States before it was used for Italian television, so we put that whole video, or we put a lot of the video of not all of it, about hour's worth

up on our YouTube. Also, if you go to our site, you will be able to click a link with a short story from Antonio about Bud Hopkins. He actually knew him fairly well because they both lived in the Manhattan area together for a while, So Antonio wrote some about that and then you can see the video and the interviews there. So it's very fun because the

tapes were very well preserved. I don't think they've been viewed much since they were brought here by Marizio, and so we took that and we were able to transfer it to a high quality and it looks great in one of the rare instances where you'll see Bud Hopkins in a suit, because usually he's a very casual guy, so you'll be able to see that there. Also we

have some more stories from the UK UFO files what Antonio did. I told you about Ralph Noyes last week, who Antonio wrote about, who was the Undersecretary of State for the UK who retired in nineteen seventy seven and then started

kind of harassing the government about UFOs while he was in the military. He says he didn't talk about UFOs because he felt he his work would be rubbished, as he said that they would make fun of him, so instead he waited until he retired and then really started pestering the government to get information out.

Antonio wrote a second story, and this time about Admiral Lord Hill Norton, who also, I mean, this guy was in charge of the Navy, he was in charge of defense, he was in charge of the military

for NATO, lots of very high titles. He became a baron, and then when he was in the House of Lords retiring kind of from the military and stuff, he began to also petition themod in I guess I don't know if petition is the right word, because if you look in THEKUFO files and we have some of the good quotes on here, he really kind of battled with the mod very concerned that they weren't taking UFO citstiously and essentially telling him

they're absolutely absurd to say things like the Rendall, scham Forrest and other important cases are not of national interest, because, as he puts it, he knows defense, he was in charge charge of the UK defense and he knows

that these are things that should be taken seriously by the government. So you can really this battle is documented in the UKUFO files that have come out, so we put those out, and also I have a new Huffington Post story up where I kind of outline all of that and that there were people who were interested in UFO's high level officials, and that is very well demonstrated here in the uk UFO files, that Ralph Noys, Lord Hill Norton and of

course our good buddy Nick Pope who worked for the MODUFO desk, who all feel that UFOs need to be taken seriously. So that's some of what you can find at the site and around the web that we've been up to. However, why don't we move on, because I got a lot to talk to Lee about and get Lee Spiegel on the phone. All right, we have on the phone the person everybody has been waiting to hear from, and I am, as usual excited to speak to mister Lee Spiegel. Hello there,

Well, thank you for that glorious introduction. Well, I think it's deserving because you and I wonder if you feel this way, you're kind of uphologies champion in conventional media, at least nationally. Well, boy, that's an interesting way to think about it. I mean, I've been doing this whatever this is for a long time, and it's like, it's amazing that I'm working for such a big news organization, the Huffington Post, and that

they're actually letting me write as many UFO stories as I want. Yeah, which is really cool. I mean, Huffington Post is one of the main leading online news sources right. Oh, absolutely, And in fact it's probably the biggest news online source for blogging news events. And I don't remember when, but at some point I believe Huffington passed companies like The New York Times

as far as leadership or Yeah, it's it's amazing. We have so many different divisions, and they seem to like the fact that UFO stories have such a big broad appeal. Yeah, well, I followed them. I've always been a fan of Ariana Huffington anyway. I was surprised when Huffington Post went online and it started doing what it's doing now and becoming kind of this hub. They're definitely on the cutting edge of social media integration into news, There's

no doubt about that. Yeah, I think you're right, yeah, so it's very cool to see you who of course I was singing you on the

AOL News, which is another national group. So that was great to then move over to the Huffington Post. And you said there was something to that that you guys were kind of lucky to be able to make the move we were before there was a there was a merger in fact between Huffington Post and AOL News and it just just happened within the last few months, and the companies came together to form what is now called the AOL Huffington Post Media Group,

and so we have people from both companies and so sometimes the story that I might write for the Huffington Post might actually end up over at AOL, But the bulk of the stuff that I do is for Huffington Post, and I'm very happy about that because it has a big readership all around the world, and I want my stuff to get out there and to be read by as many people as possible, and not everybody. Is it true that they

didn't take all of the arment from MAOL over to Huffington That's right. The way it worked, without getting too much into you know, all of the logistics of it. Basically, AOL had its own separate news divisions and style divisions and different sections of people who were writing. And when the merger happened, it just didn't make sense for there'd be one big company with with like two newsrooms, two news divisions to this and to that, and so they

did a lot of consolidation. And the section from AOL that they kept because Huffington Posts didn't have their own weird news section was that's that's where I was writing at AOL. I think because they they understand that there is there's a big interest in all things weird, not just UFOs, but people, you know Aljuna, people get sick and tired of reading about tax hikes and mortgage foreclosures and unemployment and global warming. They want something, you know, occasionally

it's a little more weird. You know. What's funny looking at the weird news is that, you know, I, of course I'm into UFOs and stuff. They put it in a weird At first you're kind of like, oh, that's too bad they put it in weird, but at least they're covering it. And stuff in paranormal in general is in the UFO or in the weird news, And by looking at the weird news, that made me think what's funny is pretty much everybody is into something weird. I mean they

have something about themselves that's unconventional. Not everybody is just totally conventional on everything they do. They have interests that are considered weird to others. Oh oh yeah. I mean we have people literally crawling out of the woodwork who want to have stories written about them. There is a guy, he's a lot of our favorites. He's known as the lizard Man, and he basically he's something like ninety nine percent of his body has been transformed, so he looks

like a lizard. He had he had his tongue lengthened and split into two. He's got horns growing out of out of his forehead that he had surgically, you know, implanted. His entire body has his tattoos that actually make him look like the creature from the Black Lagoon. Wow. In fact, a couple of months ago when we when we were doing one of the stories where some people were claiming that a lizard man had attacked them in one of the southern states. Well, I called this guy a lizard man just to

get his take on it. That's just my brother Kuk. Yeah, that's that's right. We haven't seen each other in an eternity, but it's good that we're both in the news. Oh that is really funny because of course with all the littered reptilian type of ideas, it'd be interesting to get a take on reptilian aliens. I know, I know, reptilian aliens. Yeah,

News at eleven. So, you know, for me, it was exciting, of course to see you come up because and become a start to write on this major national in AOL and now in Huffington, because really there aren't a lot of people who like you make it kind of a point to regularly report on in a serious manner the serious and important UFO stories that come up. Well, I've been discovering more and more as I cover different stories

that it's not just the bare bones story itself. It's interesting, but I'm seeing that when you put the story aside and you see what's really behind the

scenes or the aftermath of stories, that's what's really interesting to me. The History Channel just premiered, and they're probably going to show this many times throughout the month, a two hour special about UFOs, and I wrote two stories about the special and the people involved in it, and discovered as I was putting the stories together that there was so much more to the cases than just

the cases themselves. And that's what's always interesting to me, because I think the American people would like to hear more things that are credible to help them make up their minds about what the whole UFO subject is all about. What would be an example of that kind of this peripheral that you discovered. Okay, here's a perfect example. In the History Channel special, they do a recreation of a famous UFO case. And I remember when this news broke.

It was at the end of nineteen eighty and it was it was all of the mainstream news of how the crew of a japan Airlines seven seven were flying over Alaska when they reported being followed and paced by first two small UFOs and then they vanished and those were replaced by a gigantic circular craft has followed them for miles and was out maneuvering them, out pacing them, doing just amazing things, you know, things that the planet Venus wouldn't do, as the

debunkers might say, was the cause of it. All, and they asked for anchorage air traffic controller. You know, do you guys have any any other traffic up here? The anchorage radar operators didn't have it on their radar scopes, but when they checked with the local military base, the military said that they had uncorrelated targets up there with the seven forty seven. And so this dialogue went on for a while, and the radar reports were there.

The radar was picking up these extra targets. Eventually the UFOs vanished, but not before doing this for thirty thirty one minutes, so it was a pretty long encounter. So shortly after that, the news of the encounter was brought to the attention of a man named John Callahan. Callahan was the head of the FAA, the Federal Aviation Administrations. They had a special division that handled accidents, investigations, and evaluations. This was his job to look into any

anomalistic things that happened with airlines. And he got ahold of all the radar tapes, all the audio tapes between the crew and the air traffic controllers, and he went through everything and at one point, and here's where for me the story gets really interesting. So he got a call from the CIA, and he said, and they said, we need to have a meeting with you tomorrow, be at such and such a place and bring all the materials that you have on this case with you. So he packed everything up,

went to the pre arranged location. There were three CIA men there, couple from the FBI, and several members of President Ronald Reagan's scientific team, and Callahan three times went over the details of the UFO case, about the seven forty seven. He played back all the tapes, showed them all the radar screens three times, and finally, when it was all done, one of the scientists, he said, stood up and said, okay, this is what we want. We were picking everything up and we're taking it with us.

And the CIA guy stood up and looked at Callahan and said, this event never happened, We would never hear. And you're also worn to secrecy, and we're taking everything with us. His arm, you're sworn to secrecy. Yeah, And so Callahan told me, and he has he has spoken about this now recently. He basically said. He turned to the CIA guy and he said, well, what what was this object that you're also interested

in? And the CIA guy said it was a UFO and Callahan said, well, then shouldn't we put out some word to the media to let them know that there was an actual UFO event, And the CIA guy said, no, you can't do that. We won't allow you to do that. We can't let that information out because the American people can't handle it, like WHOA, Okay, Well, luckily Callahan kept copies of that the radar data. Yes he did, Yes he did, and that's been shown on previous

History Channels specials and you can see this stuff. But again, the other interesting thing that he told me was for the final ten years of the work that he did for the FAA in the government, he was involved with disinformation, lying to the media and lying to the public about things like this.

He said, disinformation is something that is approved by the government. That Callahan was involved with this, Yeah, he actually I was involved with disinformation, and now that I'm retired, now I'm talking about it so like as the official Yeah, and that's the kind of stuff that I'm very interested in, because it almost doesn't matter what the skeptics or the bunkers say if you haven't

case where people are really investigating this. The CIA is involved, the FBI, people on the President's scientific team, and and someone from the FAA.

FAA says he was doing deliberate disinformation. Then that's really important. Even Nick Pope, our friend from who used to work at the Ministry of Defense in Great Britain for three years, he was in charge of all of the UFO material that came through the Ministry of Defense, and he told me a few weeks ago that right now he's apologizing for the fact that he was involved with dirty tricks that the British government was playing on the media and the public to

ridicule UFO reports. And again I hear this kind of stuff and I go, wow, you know what's really going on here? Wow, yeah, it is that. And I didn't know about Callahan being part of that disinformation. Yeah, And it made me think of Nick Pope, who said he was also and he even apologized for it. That was what was incredibout about at interview with you. He actually came out and apologized, he did.

And the documents Great Britain recently released a few weeks ago, I think thirty four new files of previously classified UFO documents, with a total of about nine thousand pages worth of documents, and they covered the years nineteen eighty five to two thousand and seven, well those years the three years that Nick was in charge of the UFO office there for the Ministry of Defense nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety four, so he was right there, embroiled in everything while it

was going on for these documents, and he said to me, he said, it's entirely possible that ifted some of those actual reports where we deliberately ridiculed the reporters and the stories, and for that, I'm deeply apologizing. M Yeah, it's kind of shocking, you know, And at the same time, it just reminds me with the with Callahan. What it reminds me of is the Chicago hair report, because when the Chicago O'Hare incident happened in two

thousand and six. I know you spoke with George Nori about this last week. Actually, I heard you on that great show and that the FAA had like to the Chicago Tribune investigator who was looking into this case at first until they put in a Foyer request, and then they came out and said, okay, yeah, we did have radar data, but it was probably a weather anomaly, right right, a weather anomaly that hovers over the airport. It's circular in shape, mean by several eyewitnesses. And then when it leaves,

it doesn't just go to the left, to the right. It shoots straight up into the air. And as it goes through a cloud, it's like a paper cutter it or a cookie cutter. It cuts a perfectly circular hole through the cloud as it moves upward. Now, with the in this case and with the FAA, they had to come clean because of FOYA documents. However, the United Airlines never came clean. They said, oh no,

nothing happened. Nobody reported to anything to us. But the Chicago Tribune talked to United employees and pilots who did say they reported that to their superiors. Do you feel that, you know, with with Callahan talking about this information, Nick Pope and the FAA and United, do you feel that there's some sort of conspiracy or do you think it's more of a conspiracy to not

make them look silly. I'm not sure if either of those things. Alejandro, I keep hearing this phrase code of silence, and I think what maybe happening is a couple of things, a couple of possibilities I don't think it's a conspiracy unless, by definition, conspiracy means you have information about something which could affect a lot of people, and therefore you don't tell them the truth about it because you don't want to affect their lives in a negative way.

So therefore that could be a conspiracy. You're conspiring against getting the truth out. Okay, maybe that means that there is a conspiracy. But on the other hand, there are people who wonder, well, why don't the UFOs just show themselves, because they must know that they're causing havoc down here, appearing in front of so many people. Well my response to that is, you know, is it possible that anybody really on the planet knows the agenda

of whatever these visitors are? Uh huh? You know, because you know, we always like to think that we're in charge of everything, we know everything that's going on, We're the smartest guy's around, were the only ones on the block, and it unnerves people to realize we're not. Yeah. Steve Bolk, I don't know if you've noticed his book. He's a writer for Philly bourbs Or and he wrote a book about fringeology, just kind of how he looked into ghosts, and he thought it was legitimate. He looked

into other paranormal stuff. So he wrote this book kind of examining just exactly what you're talking about. How, Yeah, in society, we have to know everything, and it's probably okay to admit that we don't know everything,

because it's absolutely silly to think that we do know everything. I mean, there was there was a time in this country around the time of the nineteen thirties when the Orson Welles presentation of War of the World came out and people who heard the radio broadcast went into a panic because they thought that we actually

were being invaded by Mars. There is that mentality, or there was that mentality that told higher ups, the officials of the government, that maybe if the truth were to come out that were being visited by someone, that maybe the American public or the public around the world would not be able to handle this kind of information because it could automatically change everything society, religion, technology.

And yet there are so many people now who say that not only are they ready to know about any possible visitations, but now people are claiming that the reason why we're not being told the truth is because of things like, well, the technology. If there's a technology out there that can really help us do amazing things like maybe run our automobiles without gasoline and use some other power source, well, would the oil companies want that to be known?

Probably not. If there's a technology or civilization that have learned how to eliminate sickness and disease and they want to share that with us, well, if that happens and there is no more sickness and disease on planet Earth, then do we need the pharmaceutical divisions and companies. Probably not. I think that

makes a lot more sense. Because we are an economic based, not just society in America globally now, and so it seems most things are driven by economics, then that would be an economic reason why people would want to hide this technology. Yeah, and you know the all the arguments that say, well, nobody's visiting us because they couldn't possibly get here from there, Well, really is that true? Do we know for a fact that nobody could

get here? See? You and I mutually know nuclear physicists Stanton Friedman, and he likes to say that when people say, well that bit of UFO behavior is impossible, what they're really saying is I don't know how to do that, right, you know, and if I don't know how to do it, then it must be impossible. I always think that you Yeah, oh, I was just going to say, you know, these people who take these stances, I kind of laugh at it as opposed to get so

frustrated, because I mean, the skeptics. I don't know why someone would want to label themselves a skeptic, because those are the people who in history are the complete fools, Like the people that say we can can't buy or that to break the sound barrier is impossible. They're seeing its complete full in the future. Yeah, it's like the these are the people who apparently enjoy having eggs smewed all over their faces. Yeah, they're just asking for it.

And it's funny because they complain about, you know, assumptions being made on the side of UFO researchers, but those are pretty assumptive things themselves. To say that these things are impossible and we don't know that at all. Well, it's like, let's let's remember everybody that we as as a species, we've only been we've only had any kind of sophisticated technology for what two

or three hundred years at the most. So what if there's another civilization or as as astronomers love to now theorize, there are probably tens of thousands of other civilizations just in our little Milky Way galaxy. So what if a couple of other civilizations that might be might be a few hundred a few thousand years older and slightly more advanced than we are. So they've had a little bit of a head start or a kickstart. So wouldn't they possibly have many more

amazing things that would appear to be amazing to us? Of course they would. So if they do have amazing technology, then chances are they've figured out how to get here from there. Just because just because we're still using you know, propulsion systems to have to launch something from the ground to get us into orbit. Just because we haven't gotten to warp speed yet or hyperdrive doesn't mean we're not going to. But so you have to keep it in that

perspective. Because we don't know how to do it yet doesn't mean somebody else knows how to do it. Now, I wanted to get into your past. I wanted to know, Yeah, let's go back to when you were roam in the street of New York in your velvet with your switchblade in your back pocket. No, uh huh, oh did I you have to protect yourself in New York City? Yeah? When was it that you first got interested in UFOs? Nineteen seventy three, the year I was born. Just

because of that, that's right. I got this message. I heard someone named Alejandro has just come into our reality and you will. You will intermingle with him in about thirty years, and you will come to find the answers to all the UFO secrets. That's right, that's right, And we're getting closer and closer. I was. I was actually working in the music industry, and in nineteen seven three there was a very big wave of UFO scene across the United States, just a lot of sightings. It was making the

news. Talk shows were talking about them, and it just kind of caught my attention. And I started seeing people like Stan Friedman, the late astronomer, Alan Heinek, astronaut Gordon Cooper on a couple of talk shows, and I thought, boy, this is really interesting. And I found a few books. I started reading about them and became even more intrigued. And the more I read, the more I wanted to hear from these people that I

was reading about. And at the time, in nineteen seventy three, seventy three, and seventy four, there was really nothing going on where you could just go into a store and buy a DVD because there were no DVDs back then. There weren't There weren't even really any videos. Back then. People were saying DVDs aren't possible, that the DVDs can't get here from there, and and so. But what what you could do was you could hear things.

You could buy records, you know, back then, uh you could buy there are actually stores, many stores where you could buy vinyl records. So I came up with this idea of wouldn't it be nice to be able to hear the voices of some of these people I've been reading about, some military people, some astronauts, some scientists and police officers, and some government officials. It would be great to hear them all together on a record, on a recording. I would like to hear that, and I think other

people would too. So I was able to get a meeting an audience at the CB Yes, because CBS at the time they were they had a division called Columbia House, and what Columbia House was a division of recordings where they would have television commercials at night where you'd see like a two minute commercial the great Montevani strings and orchestras, you know, the best of Perry Como,

you know, the best classical music on two vinyl records. And they would have these these like early infommercials, but they were only a couple of minutes long, where if you send you can you can get either the vinyl record, and if you don't want the record, you can get She'd do any any people still understand or remember eight track tapes? Just because my stepdad was

using them up until five years ago. That's why. Sure. So I thought, well, this would be great and if I could get an audience at CBS and try and convince them them to give me some money so that I could travel around the country and interview these people I was reading about.

But I needed a partner, and one of the more popular books out at the time was called Beyond Earth Man's Contact with UFOs, and it was written by Ralph and Judy Blum, and I became friendly with him in New York and together we did a presentation at CBS, and Ralph really helped to sell the company on the idea that if we put this record album together, we could do a TV commercial for it, because I wanted to sell it on TV. And basically, if you send in your money and get the album

or the eight track, you'll also get a copy of Beyond Earth. Man's contact with the UFOs, and it was one of those things where if you get the package and the mail and if you don't like the album, send the album back, but keep the book, you know. And CBS went for it. They said, yes, this is interesting because no one had ever sold a product like this about UFOs and actual documentary on television. Have you gotten those commercials up on YouTube yet? No? Man, I'd like

to see that. That's very funny, you know, because we made one commercial and I have it. I haven't thought that would be great. Wow, that's that's very interesting. I may have I'm none. You mentioned that

I may have to like upload that to YouTube. Well, what's cool about about that commercial was while I was running around the country and interviewing people, and the people that I was interviewing for my album were all people who were featured in Ralph's book, so he helped to set me up with these people,

so that was just really great. And so as I was traveling around the country and talking to them, I realized, I'm going to have to find a host for the album, somebody who's going to be the narrator of this thing. And my first choice at the time was Rod Serling, because the Twilight Zone was still very hot back then and it's still hot in reruns everywhere. But as it turned out, in nineteen seventy five, Serling was very sick with cancer and so his family informed me that he wouldn't be able

to do it, and soon after that he passed away. So my second choice of the narrator for the album was a guy who I liked just as much as Rod Serling. When The Twilight Zone on TV programs came out in the late fifties and early sixties, at the same time, another show came out called One Step Beyond, and in One Step Beyond, like the Twilight Zone, used a lot of unknown actors who later became very famous actors.

The difference between the two shows was where Rod Serling introduced stories that were just totally science fiction, totally bizarre, One Step Beyond introduced stories based on real unexplained phenomena and psychic events, and the director and the host, the on camera host of One Step Beyond was a man named John Newland, and he used to just come out on camera introduce these stories. Then you'd see him within the actual sets of some of the stories. He'd be narrating it,

just the same way that Rod Serling did with The Twilight Zone. And so I went to California and I met John Newland, which was amazing for me to meet him, and over a lunch and a handshake, he agreed to

be the narrator for my album How Cool. It was very cool, and we brought him to New York UH to read the copy of the two minute commercial as well as the actual copy of the narration of the album, and he came to New York to do the two minute commercial spot and they put the commercial on TV, and the commercial ran on television, it ran in the National Enquirer. We had a couple of commercials there and sold it in a few other places. Doctor j. Allen Heinek loved the final product and

he arranged for it to be sold through the Edmund Scientific Catalog. I mean, I was, oh, did you no? Go ahead? Go ahead? I was going to ask if you interviewed Stanton Friedman. Back then. Stan Friedman was the first person I ever interviewed about UFOs and it was for my album Oh Wow. The reason I asked is because about six years ago he came and did a talk. I was living in Denver then, and

I was like, do you mind? It was for Colorado Mufon I was part of that, and I was like, do you mind if I record this? I want to put it online. And he looked at me funny, and he says, you can do that. I was like, I told him I have the technology, and he was like, yeah, that's

great. It was pretty funny because here you are, you know, thirty years prior, and you're recording him and putting him on fine of Oh well, I got to tell you when when CBS gave me the money to travel around the country, the first thing I did with some of that money was I had to buy a recorder, you know, on which to make all

the recordings. And I wanted something that was compact. I wanted like a high quality cassette recorder that had Dolby in it, that could reduce any background noise, and and and so I bought this this uh, this sony tape recorder. It was so big and it was so heavy it almost tore my shoulder blades apart, you know, trying to trying to carry it on and off a plane. The thing the thing was was about a foot and a half wide, about seven inches high, and it may must have weighed like

seventy five pounds. And it's its only function was to put a tape in close the close the compartment and hit record. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Why did they have like a vacuum tubes in it? And well, I felt like I could have made toast with it. I mean, it came down all kinds of things. So I traveled around with this thing,

I mean, a huge, heavy recorder. And and so, in planning my trips about where I wanted to go and who I wanted to interview, I thought that I would start in California and work east and arranging people's schedules. So it turned out that Stan Friedman, who lived in California at the time, he was available, and so I went and I met him, went to his house, met him, and this was nineteen seventy five, and when I was done doing my interview with him, and I was

so impressed with him, because here we are almost forty years later. He and I are still friends, and he's always stayed consistent with his views and the things that he has to say about UFOs. And so while I was there interviewing them him, he said, you know, there's a guy just up the road here who you might want to talk to. Also. He's an aerospace engineer, spent forty three years working for McDonnell douglas and his name is doctor Robert Wood. Wow. Robert Wood is on the board of directors

of Mouffon. Yeah, he's a guy. You know. He spent a lot of years at McDonald douglas. And one of the things that one of the first tasks that he did at McDonald douglas, he was given the job of trying to figure out putting a team together to try and figure out how these things called UFOs possibly worked to see if McDonald douglas could somehow engineer similar

craft. So that's why in California probably Well, what he what Robert Wood did was he hired Stan Friedman and it was the first paying job that freedman ever had in UFOs and it didn't Unfortunately, it got canceled before it I think. Yeah. So after I interviewed Stan Freeman and Robert Wood, then I went up to Hollywood and the interviewed Gordon Cooper, the former astronaut.

Wow. And that was the first time that Gordon went on record, literally on record on vinyl record, Yeah, to talk about UFOs he had seen and about the UFO that had landed out on the dry lake bed at Edward's Air Force Base. Only only Wow, that's the first time that that story ever came out. And so then then I started moving around the country. Then I went to Chicago to interview doctor David Saunders, who was a member

of the Condon Committee in the nineteen sixties. And while I was there, that's when I met Alan Heinex. I interviewed Alan Heinek for my record. I was just moving around and just talking to people. It was great. So and then at some point, and I don't know, let me know if anything else that significant you were involved with happened in between, but then you got involved with the Unit initiative. Yeah. After the album was done

and we premiered it in nineteen seventy six, I started getting bored. It's like I wanted to do something else because I realized, you know, back then, nobody was using the word disclosure, and yet the album that I did was one of the first forms of disclosure I believe, right, And so around nineteen so the album came out in seventy six, and then around seventy seven, I started noticing in the news that this guy named Eric Gary,

the Prime Minister of the tiny Caribbean country of Grenada. He was trying to get the United Nations to pay attention to his own personal UFO crusade. He wanted to form some kind of a UFO committee based on the fact that he had seen UFOs in his country. Many other people in his country had seen them, and he thought that this would be probably good form in this

country as well. And the United Nations very politely paid attention every time you went and did a speech and started talking about UFOs, but nobody ever did anything about it. So I got an idea. I thought, well, this is great, Maybe somehow I could get to the United Nations and do a presentation. Because I asked a few people around and I was told if you want to do something at the un if you want to do a presentation on anything, you can't just walk in off the street and say Hi,

can I do something on UFOs please. They won't let you do it. You have to be either part of a specific delegation that's doing this, or you have to be like an associate delegate or a temporary delegate. And so I met a couple of the Ambassadors of Grenada. I basically I just went to the mission, the Grenada Mission in New York, and I brought with me a copy of my UFO album from nineteen seventy six, and I said to I'd like to present this to your Prime Minister as a gift. This

is what I did and there are some amazing people on this album. Would you please give the Prime Minister this? And I'd love to meet him sometime. I can't talk to the album that I'm going to be really hipped too. That's right, it'll climb the charts of Grenada. Well, not long after that, the Ambassadors called me and said, the Prime Minister is coming to New York. He's going to be knighted to be Sir Eric Gary, and he has invited you to come to the ceremony at the United Nations.

He'd like to meet you, and I says, great, it's wonderful. I'd love to meet him too. And so I went and was there for all the pomp and circumstance of you know, making him Sir Eric Gary. And when that is over we met privately for just a few minutes and he said that he enjoyed my album, and I said, well, thank you

very much, and missed the Prime Minister. I'd like to make you an are a deal and and basically I said, you've been trying to get the world body to pay attention to your UFO interest, but they don't seem to be interested in what you have to say. I, on the other hand, I have all the people in my back pocket who could come and make an amazing presentation on your behalf if you will sponsor my presentation. And he said, okay, let's do it. And and then so they had to

make me a delegate. And they gave me like a little laminade card with my name my name on it and said, you know, mister Lei Spiegel is an actual accredited delegate of the country of Grenada. Wow. Yeah, And and and they gave me checks, you know, pay made from the Bank of Grenada, and you know, I wanted to make sure really fast

they were good. Checks wouldn't bounce, and that was not okay. And so I went to people like Alan Heinek and Gordon Cooper and Jacques Valet and said, do you guys want to play with me on this, because here's a chance for all of you to get up in front of the United Nations and do your thing. And they all said, yes, of course,

we want to do this. And so I spent nineteen seventy eight putting this together with Alan Heinek and all these other guys, and it was just, you know, amazing, because in July of nineteen seventy eight, there was an interim meeting at the UN because during the summer, the General Assembly and the Special Political Committee were on vacation. But the Secretary General, Kurt WALTHEIME, wanted to meet with those of us who were planning to do this presentation

in November. And so we all sat around this big conference table and a lot of pictures were taken, and those pictures of all of us sitting that have been published in so many newspapers and magazines over the years of the group of us who were putting together this presentation in our magazine. Yeah, yeah,

and I know that. And so during that year, part of my plan was I wanted to put a packet of materials together, like a document package of all the best things that I could come up with that would try and lend some credibility to the presentation. And so one day I was at doctor Heine's office in Evanston, Illinois, and I said to him, Look, for twenty years, you were the scientific consultant to the Air Force's Project Blue Book, the official UFO investigation arm of the government. You were there

for twenty years. You must have had your hand in some filing cabinets once in a while before you left. I'm asking you to give me something that I can then have translated into several languages at the un so that we can include this for our presentation that people would read and go, wow, this is amazing. And I said, what can you give me? And he went over to his filing cabinet. He opened it up, and he pulled out a manila envelope and he handed it to me and he said, well,

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about. But take a look at this. And what he gave me was about fourteen or fifteen pages of something called Introductory Space Science and said, Volume two, Department of Physics, the United States Air Force, Chapter thirty three Unidentified Flying Objects. And I said, what is this. So it turns out that this was in nineteen sixty eight, when this was written, the Air Force decided to include

in one of their physics textbooks. The name of the book was Introductory Space Science that was given to the Academy cadets at the Air Force Academy, and they wanted to give their cadets information about UFOs. And I was reading through all the pages and I'm going, oh my god, Well, like, wow, is this real? He said, yes, this is real. And I'm not sure if it's a smoking gun, and I'm not sure if people will consider this proof. But I said, well, I think this

is very hot. This is really great. And so when you go through the chapter, I mean, the Air Force told their cadets up things that they suspet about UFOs. You know. Again, While while while concluding publicly that there was nothing of scientific interest about UFOs, this chapter continued as part of the Air Force Academy curriculum after the close of Project Blue Book, and I find that to be very interesting. And they basically they say things.

I'm going to quote a couple of things from the chapter right now for you. It says, what we will do here is to present evidence that UFOs are a global phenomenon which may have persisted for many thousands of years. And they go on to give the cadets many examples going back thousands of years where extraterrestrials may have intervened and interacted with humans. And here's here's another little section that says UFO sightings not only appear to extend forty seven thousand years through time,

but they're global in nature. One has the feeling that this phenomenon deserves some sort of valid scientific investigation, Okay. And then they go on to give more examples of UFOs, and then they start getting into specific things that UFOs might turn out to be, like mysticism, hoaxes, natural phenomena,

secret weapons, and then they come down to alien visitors. And under the topic of alien visitors, it says the most stimulating theory for us is that UFOs are material objects which are either manned or remote controlled by beings who are alien to this planet. There is some evidence supporting this viewpoint. Here's another again, it's part of the trying to justify to the cadets why they think that this is so. It says we may be the object of intense sociological

and psychological study. In such studies, you usually avoid disturbing the test subject's environment. You do not contact a colony of ants and humans may seem that way to any aliens. And here's a variation. A zoo is fun to visit, but you don't contact the lizards. So you can see the theme

kind of running through this. I love the document too because even years later, most of it is still valid, which is one of these statements and the conclusions where they're talking about there could be four different groups of aliens, all at different stages. But this I think conclusion is pretty accurate today where they say the solution to the UFO problem may be obtained by the long and

diligent effort of a large group of well financed and competent scientists. Unfortunately, there is no evidence suggesting that such an effort is going to be made. Yeah, still true to this day because I think that's the most importing that could happen. It's amazing. It's like, well, you can't win, you know any way anywhere you turn. Yeah, uh yeah, And it makes and it makes you have to wonder, well, who's who's really running

the show here? You know? Uh? And all the all the people like you and I can do is try and little by little get some kind of credible information out there and and hope that people use it for whatever they want to use it for, to either either expand their their their thoughts on the subject or to I don't know, help their lives in some way. But you know, people ask me, well, do you think you're going to you're going to see these things? Will the truth come out within my

lifetime? Well? I hope it does. I do hope it does, and I hope that does for people like Stan Friedman who have spent their entire lives looking into this thing, and who you know, they someone like Stan deserves to see this truth come out in his lifetime. Yeah. Yeah, And I think that, you know, Leslie Kane, her book has been a big I've been very effective. I think the biggest things that are that are most effective are treated well by the media, and it's not something that's

really in your face all the time. It's very subtle. And the important part is when you have people like Michio Kaku or a few of other scientists who have come forward and said, you know what, I've looked at this book and it makes me think that this is a worstwhile effort to investigate this phenomena. Yeah. And I also happen to agree with former Army Colonel John

Alexander. And I know that a lot of people have been claiming that he's a real man in black, Yeah, that his only his only mission in life is to spread disinformation around the world about UFOs, And I like, Yeah. What I like about John is he's one of the few people out there saying, hey, you want to talk about disclosure while I'm telling you disclosure has been happening for decades. And I think he's right. I absolutely

think so. I agree. I think that you know, obviously, going and pounding at the door of the White House is not getting people places, and the people once you get the door open, you're going to open the door and are going to go, sorry, we don't know nothing, because those people aren't the right people to know. Yeah, and who do we think we are that that? Well, geez, why don't they land on the White House lawn? Well? Why should they? Yeah, I mean

these things can and do land wherever they want. Yeah, you know, why do we think that, Well, they must land on the White House lawn otherwise they don't exist. Well, gee, I'm sorry, but how many countries are there in the United Nations? About one hundred and fifty, And we're so egocentric that we think that it must happen in the United States, whether the announcement must come from the White House. I'm sorry. I don't happen to fall into any of that, but a lot of people do.

People tend to think that, Well, if our leaders tell us one thing, we must pay attention to them. And if they tell us that there's nothing to it, then we'll have to believe them and let's go about our dreary lives. Yeah. It reminds me of that great analogy that you just talked about about the ants, and it would be like, you know, attending an ambassador to the ants. We are human. I like that the ambassador to the ants. We want to open up diplomatic relations with the

ants. Yeah, and that's exactly how we might appear to some extraterrestrials.

Now, I also happen to believe, and I don't talk about this a lot, but I do believe that it's possible that some kind of contact has been made between some visitors and at the very least some military people, because there have been too many stories told by a variety of military people about how a ship as either land at a military base and some creatures got out of it and you know, blah blah blah, and so naturally they would want

to keep these kinds of story secret because any country that can, you know, shoot a flying saucer out of the sky or if a saucer crashed, well, any country would take an obviously military attitude and say, well, we have to get it, we have to figure out how it works before the next guy does. So I understand, and all that attitude, it doesn't make it right, and it doesn't help, It doesn't help the situation.

I just would like it if people weren't ridiculed anymore. Yeah, so that you know, when Dennis Kasinich was asked during the nineteen during the two thousand and seven presidential campaign, you know, Tim Russert of NBC said, is it true that you've seen a UFO? And as soon as he asked the question, there were snickers and laughs throughout the audience. Well, why

does that happen? Yeah, it's surreal when I saw that because of the nervous laughter and stuff, and it's like, why are you people laughing? I mean, this is someone who saw something extraordinary. Yeah, and he never said that he saw an alien spaceship. He said I saw something I can't identify, and then they laughed at him. And I keep saying, why why are you laughing at someone anyone who says that. I don't understand

the attitude. Yeah, And unfortunately, I think Tim Ressler knew the reaction that would get and it was kind of him, kind of lobbying for an ad at tooth and nation. These people laugh at these for no reason. It's like, if you want to ridicule someone, well I guess that's one way of doing it. But why why does ridicule have to even be associated with this? That's what I don't understand, and that's what I'd like to

see, you know, go away? Yeah, yeah, I agree, I think you know this conclusion again, this air force conclusion is great because the very last sentence is the best thing to do is to keep an open and skeptical mind and not take an extreme position on any side of the question. Yeah, because it's right. We don't have enough information to take an extreme position. And I kind of see when people are laughing an act some

one. Let's kind of take an extreme position that this person's foolish because he's got something he could explain. Yeah, I mean, maybe the powers that be on this planet, maybe they already know that, maybe through interactions in the days of the Bible, that visitors came down from the sky and actually helped to seed human life here. There are all those kinds of these these going on out there that people are hypothesizing that and maybe some people think that

we couldn't handle that information. Okay, fine, maybe that's true. But the you have to ridicule us when we say we saw something that we know was unexplainable, you know, don't talk down to us and make us feel like we're not worthy of anything. And that's that's what's been going on for decades. Yeah, you know, it kind of reminds me again of that we both book and I think he even if blogging for the Huffington Post also at least has once or twice, and his was the kind of the same

thing. He was thinking, you know, when he started thinking about the paranormally he had a ghost experience in his past, and he was thinking, why do I have to feel ashamed because I believe my parents and the experience that you know, they talked about having in the past. I really shouldn't build that way. I should be able to, you know, just accept it and examine it. I agree, And I also want to let all of your listeners know that if they're not aware of this yet, that they

should check you out as a blogger now on the Huffington Post. Thank you so so much for helping that happen too, because I am so excited and happy to be blogging for the Hoping Post. It's great. You guys have a great team on the weird News, and it's just a lot of fun of course getting exposed to these stories and it helps me feel the to help out to also help champion this whole subject. Yeah yeah, and it's worth it's worth championing, I think. Yeah, yeah, there's there's great stuff.

I mean, because you know, getting back to Leslie King's television show and more specifically your story. You by writing about five Symington and Nick Pope and Charles Halt and all of these you're championing their story to the public. I am, because I think that they need as many positive voices backing them up. You know, I can't prove what they say, and in most

cases they can't even prove what they say. But these these are highly credible people who who need to be listened to and who should not be ridiculed by those who have no idea what they're talking about. That's, you know. And I say to people who are skeptical, they try and bait me into a debate, and I never debate anyone. All I say to people is how much time have you personally put into investigating this information on your own?

Have you spent many years? Have you traveled around the country, have you interviewed people, Have you gone to museums, have you gone to archives in Washington? Exactly? How much time have you put into investigating it to come to your opinion? And if you haven't put this kind of effort into it, then you don't really have a valid opinion. Yeah, I hey, yeah, you're right. And I say this to people and I have found in the past basically so sorry, but it pisses them off because they don't

want to be talked down to like that. And I say to them, well, then don't ridicule other people if you don't know what you're talking about. And unfortunately this includes the major skeptics out there, like the Benjamin Radford out there on the MSNBC, I think, and then or even such stocks shots that they haven't even begun to investigate the phenomena before they make their conclusions. Yeah. Yeah, And you know, for the most part, I

know all of these skeptics, and I actually if they weren't skeptics. I like these people. Yeah, I've had very nice conversations with them. They're very easy to get along with. They just have this one character flaw. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and we all have them. I guess we're running out of time, But I do have one last question, and it's really around, you know, your experience with the History Channel and writing this story, because I guess a cynical perspective of why the History Channel would do

a great show like they did is that they're just going for ratings. But did you find something different that these people actually take this subject here? You Yes. I spoke with Julian Hobbs, who is the executive vice president. He's the executive producer of the History Channel, and I asked him last week. I said, you know, you've done many UFO shows. Why are you suddenly doing a two hour special? What gives with that? And he said, well, the only reason why we're doing this, And yes,

we have done many UFO shows in the past. But after I read Lesley Kine's books, it was so compelling and it changed my views and some of my opinions on the credibility of this that I decided to go with this and without her book, there would be no show. And that's why we did it. You know, we gave Leslie Came the UFO Investigator of the Year award last year. Oh great, and she deserved it. And you know, I just can't say enough about her work and getting this book out and

how great it is. And yeah, wonderful that you're picking it up and running with it as well. Well. I'm I'm happy to do it and and I haven't yet had a chance to have her autograph the book for me yet. That's gonna that's gonna happen really soon. Good well, thank you so much for being on the show. We're pretty much out of time.

I guess people can go to Huffington Post and click on the weird news link which is right on the front page, and they'll be able to see your stories there, or just Google or go to the search on a Huffington Post and put in lease Eagle find you either way. Huh, that's right. And if they just want to google Huffington Post Leashpiegel, it'll it'll take them to any number of my stories and then from there they can find all of my stories. Yeah, that's the best way to find people these days.

Just google their name and you'll have it all. Well, thank you, Anro, great talking with you. Yeah, thank you for being on the show. Thanks for helping me get the Huffington Post bog and keep it up, keep on keeping on. I will all right, good night, good night, all right. Next week, I want to let you know we're not going to have a show. We're going to take the week off for the vacation. Also, the chapter he was talking about about the Air Force

physics document, you can find that online and actually coupon. Seef on dot org has that also, And finally, in two weeks when we do come back, we're gonna have a special show with Jason McClellan, our news correspondent, because he wrote about Billy Meyer, so we're gonna go over his Billy Meyer research. So thanks for joining us this week. Don't forget to visit Openminds dot tv for the latest UFO news and information, and we'll talk to you in a couple of weeks. People,