Hello, and welcome to Open minds UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin. Well i'll call him. I'm Martin. Willis the small eye. That's right, the I with a capital M. Yes, using uh via iPhone here. I couldn't make it home, sorry, Aleandro. But sound okay? Right? Sounds great? Yeah, it sounds fine. I wouldn't have even known you were not home had you not told me. I know, I should just keep my trap shut. But now I told you I'm Martin because I'm starting to think that
perhaps you're an Apple product. I could be. I have no proof that otherwise, I have no proof you're human. Yeah, well I made the switch several years ago. And yeah, it's like I do have all Apple everything. Wow, I use up Apple everything. I love Apple, And so that would make sense that I would like to use you on my show, because especially if you're some sort of cyboard type of Apple product that I Martin. Yes, I wish I had a cyborg eye eye. It'd be
great. I'd be able to see at night and all that stuff be fun. So my guest today, uh is Lespiegel. I think you had him not too long Ago as a guest. Yes, he's always all blast to have, isn't he. Yep, he's a lot of fun. Now this time I wanted to focus on his most recent stories, which have mostly been around space and like astrobiology and exoplanets and cool stuff like that. Right, I know he just had that one about the planets. He's had several planets
recently. Yeah, very good point. So, yeah, that's the guest uh Lespicele from Huffington's host Huffington or No, they changed their name to just huff Post. That's right, m so huff Post. So he's not saying that for years himself. Yeah, that's kind of been a slang term. I remember when Arianna was around and we would use it. He would say she likes the full Huffington Post. But now she's not owner anymore. There's a different owner, and I think she even is stepped down from her editorial
role there. So now they've got some new kids in there and they're like, no, man, it's the huff Post. We're huff post man. So the millennials like to kind of shorten things to be cool. Well, you can't blame them. No, it's fun to be it's hip to be square. I don't know if that's true or not, but I remember that saying, yeah, I remember that, Yeah, I remember that phrase. So news, that's what you're here for, is for the IUFO I news, Yes I am and so. A Canadian witness says, ufo followed car
fifty I mean twenty feet overhead. Now this happened not that long ago, April nineteenth, just a couple of days ago. It's a Canadian witness at Edson she reported a glowing object following her vehicle. It was about twenty feet overhead. At first she thought it was a vehicle coming up from behind her. Then she realized that there were no vehicles in sight, and it was a bright yellow colored light appeared in her review mirror. And anyway, she
continued to drive. She slowed down a little, hoping that it would pass if it was a vehicle, and that's when she noticed that it was not behind her and maybe about twenty foot distance above her. So then she came up to it was sort of a yellow orange color and it glowed. It was very bright, she says, and so she sped up to get away
from it, and it continued at the same speed. Overhead for about fifty teen minutes, which is quite a while, and then she got to I think it was a stop sign and she was going to make a turn, and the thing went exactly where she was going. So it sounds pretty scary to me. Yeah, so almost like a close encounters type of situation right overhead, except I think he was stopped at a railroad track, wasn't he. It's been so long since I've seen Yeah, he stopped at a track,
but I think because of the lights and stuff. So he stopped because of the lights and everything. Yeah, but that, Yeah, that is pretty weird. I don't know if you read this or heard anything about this, but Ridley Scott's been talking about UFOs lately, Yes, and I heard that. Actually got to go see Alien Covenant the other day. Well, a lot of people are saying it was really good, is it? Well it doesn't officially start till Friday this Friday, but I got to see a
special early press preview, and I would say it's good. It's what you would expect from an alien movie, I think, is the way I would put it. Now. I thought this was out because I thought I saw a good friend Ryan Sprague write something unless I'm confusing it with something else. You could be. I don't know, but it's not out till Friday. Oh wow, yep, I've been yeah so but yeah. So anyway, he has unsurprisingly, you know, especially given his movies. In his movies,
you know, everybody's bad. It's like there's a there's maybe a good human or two, but otherwise the rest of the humans are pretty much boneheads and either get themselves killed out of stupidity or they're just bad people. Uh. And the aliens, of course are total a holes even you know, in Prometheus they seem the big one seemed to be okay for a minute, and then it turns out that they're jerk offs too. So so of course he feels that aliens are are not the best, and he has been talking
about lately. He told this French this is kind of funny. He told these these French guys that, and he believes in aliens. He's really into ancient aliens. You know, Prometheus well and the Alien knew. These these prequels kind of have that theme to them, and he's really into ancient aliens.
But he says that he does believe in them and that they're superior beings, and he says that if you run into them, that you ought to run, that you ought to get the heck out of there, because he says, they're smarter than we are, and if you're stupid enough to challenge them, then you will be taken out in three seconds. Wow. I think you should just you know, like when a bear comes up to you
should just like lay down and play dead. I mean, you know, if you run, it's not going to be it's not gonna be a defense at all. They'll just zap you. Yeah, but that's a bear. It's not like bear. Bears don't have trichorders, you know, like in Star Trek where they can say, oh, this creature is actually alive. It's just playing dead, so get it, you know, so shoot it
or molest it or something. So the aliens, I'm sure have trichorders or some sort of technology where they can see, oh they're just playing possum. Get them. Oh yeah wow. So I don't know, I think lose lose situation. Yeah. So that's what reminded me. You know, I wrote a story about this before I went and saw the movie. But you know, with this this woman's situation and being scary. You know, it doesn't hurt to be safe than sorry, So maybe it would be best to
run. I kind of have a new perspective. If you see a UFO run, what do you think, Well, I guess, I mean, I guess they got but I don't know if that's you know, I guess better than giving up and just saying, you know, take me to your leader or something like that. I don't know what you could do, what your defense would be, because you don't know what they can do with their mind if they're really, you know, very far advanced. Yeah, good
point. You can just like stare at you and like your brain will crumble or something. See that would be a good experiment to see what happens. Like have you and Ridley Scott, you know, in a field and then they come you play dead, Ridley Scott runs and see what happens? You know? Do they Maybe they're like dogs and they love it when something runs
because then they can chase it. So they're chasing Ridley Scott. Meanwhile, you're safe because you play dead and you get up and you're like haha, or they're like, hey, well they only needed one and this this goofy one, right, here is laying on the ground for some reason, he's not running. Let's just take this one instead of trying to chase the other one. That would be more efficient. That's probably, you know, it's
kind of that's probably what's gonna happen. So I just give up right now, or you know, there's he could be wrong, just because, you know, because in his movies, like all the humans are total A holes. Humans I don't think are total a holes. We've talked about this. I'm sure a lot of them are, but not all of them. I mean a lot of them are pretty cool people. I would say most of the people most not all, of course, And maybe you listeners feel differently.
I don't know how you feel. Most people are meet are pretty decent, pretty cool, they're you know, they're all right. So I think that Ridley Scott's perspective on humanity is a little cynical. So perhaps he doesn't have the alien thing quite right either. Maybe they're nicer than he expects. I think they are. Otherwise I think we'd know a little bit more about them being gnarly. How would you rate the movie? Oh, how would I rate the movie? That's kind of tough for me. Now, I
love space movies, So I love space. And if you have cool spaceships that look realistic, you know, flying around orbiting planets and and flying into the atmosphere and stuff, I'm gonna love that. So that aspect of this movie I loved. Now, that aspect of Prometheus gave me a sense of awe. Especially I write about this in my story, where you know they're landing in that valley and on the far end of that valley is what looks
like possibly an ancient alien structure. Now that's exciting, and that that really gave me, like this great sense of awe. I never felt that sense of awe in this movie, even though they had some grandiose sets that where they could have inspired that, But the sets were just kind of the background. It felt almost more like a video game. So it was action adventure with some cool space. So I didn't leave incredibly dis pointed, but I
wasn't super jazzed either. Where uh, you know, Prometheus, I was kind of torn because I was excited, kind of jazzed about some parts, but also disappointed about some parts. So I had less of an emotional response this time, I guess. So it's hard to say, I would maybe put it around us. Out of ten, how many stars out of ten? How many are you? How many stars are you giving me? Well usually it's isn't it five stars? But yeah, but anyway, yeah,
do whatever you want. I mean, I'm gonna say three and a half. Three and a half. Yeah, yeah. Wow. I'm a pretty hard greater though, so yeah, yeah, well I don't know why. I guess maybe it was Prometheus Sprague was talking about. Hmm. Now I will say, uh huh, go ahead, it's gonna get more. One more movie review that probably at least a four. It was silly, but it was a perfect mother's day movie. We saw Stranded with Karen, my girlfriend and her two daughters. Now it is eighteen and older. Oh yes,
film, but it was really funny. I gotta say, I'm not the biggest Amy Schumer fan. I think she's kind of funny her stand up say, but this was really funny. It was pretty good. Yeah. I'm not sure if I'm familiar with that that movie. Yeah, I don't think it's been advertised like hugely, but I think they got it out just in time because it's with Amy Schumer and her mom and this adventure they have, but it is pretty funny. That was pretty good, all right,
Yeah, so there we go. Is that it? I guess that is it because I did want to share that movie. The only other news that I would like to share with people, and I might as well share it now is And I don't know if you've read this, but Linda Zimmerman, who wrote the book about the New York UFOs, wrote a story for us
about Man's Best UFO Witness. And this is in regards to a sighting that you and I have discussed on this show, and that was the one I think we talked about this last show, the last show where there was a deer who saw these UFOs. So she was inspired then to write about all of these UFO stories she has where dogs are involved, and it's incredible. I love the article because she's right often pets are involved with UFO sidings and
their reactions. There's a wide range of reactions that they have, and her story encapsulates a lot of different sightings and a lot of different types of reactions these animals have had. So it's very insightful in a great article. So it's called Man's Best UFO Witness question Mark and it is on the front page of Open Mindset TV. Well, you know, it's kind of a wonder that nobody's ever really written about that. I've never really seen anything written about
that. I have seen like reports, I think, but not like a story like this. It could almost be a book if you had enough enough stories. Yeah, I think you're right. You know, when she put this out there, I was so excited. I mean when she sent it to me and she's like, hey, I was inspired by this recent story to write this article, and I was like, I was like, this is awesome, this is perfect, this is great. So yeah, it's
really cool. I love it. Great. I can't I saw that up in your sight, and I will read it because I'm very interested in that. Yeah, check that out when you get a chance. His brother and Linda is she's a really nice lady, really really like her. She's cool, very cool. Yeah. Right, Well, I guess we'll talk to another New Yorker. That's a last Biegel from Queen's here. Unless you have any other news that yet, Dad, Nope, that's it for me, all right, great, Well, thank you so much for joining us again,
and we'll talk to you soon. Budda, all right, thanks a lot. All right, talk to you later. Yeah, let's go ahead and talk to our good buddy, Lee Spiegel. I am happy to welcome back to the show, Lee Spiegel. How you do the buddy, I'm good, Alejandra, Thanks for having me on again. I think this is what our fifty six show together or something. I don't know. Maybe not
that many, but there's quite a few. Although it feels like it's been a while since I've had you on, But you know what, I don't mind having you on several times because our conversations are fun and full of interesting stuff. And speaking of interesting stuff, I am super excited that now your stories you kind of have your writing about more so. It used to be more about UFO stuff, some of which can be kind of boring quite with it, not a lot going on, but now you're doing space stuff and
it's cool stuff that scientists are doing out there. I'm loving your stories. Well well, thank you, And in fact, I just filed a new piece tonight that that I think you and I hope the readers will like. There is this new four year project that has just begun in Sweden with researchers and they believe that within the next four or five years, there we will be able to understand the language of dolphins. Finally, the language of dolphins.
I didn't know dolphins had a language. You don't. Really A lot of researchers and scientists have been kind of going back and forth on this, and there is some indication that because a lot of research that been done before that it appears that dolphins do have a sense of like they can they can meet up in packs in the ocean, and and it seems that because of the kinds of sounds they make, they make whistles and clicks and and just
hitting noises, and scientists think that what these noises are is basically the the mammals reaching out to each other and calling each other and saying hi by name. Really yeah, very much the way humans do, and and and they're they're what they're going to try and do now is to use artificial intelligence software systems that this other company has has been very successful in using with with humans,
and and it's they're hoping that they'll have some breakthroughs. But you know, the question is is they haven't got a good answer for this yet. It's it's kind of only like a way satisfactory answer. So let's say within the next four or five years, we can figure out what the dolphins are saying. I mean, okay, that would be great all by itself. But will this same technology allow the dolphins to know what we're saying? And
there's a trick. Well, they seem to know pretty well, right, I mean, dolphins, they say, are very quick to pick up on human language. Like surprisingly, Yeah, well, you know, we all grew up, you and me and all the rest of us. You know, are we considered the millennials or were we the generation before the millennials came along? I can never figure that now. I think you, and this is not to be offensive or anything. I think you're a baby boomer,
But I'm a gen X and neither of us are millennials. I completely forgot the Yeah forgot my generation. Well, well, and you know what, it almost doesn't matter what your generation was. We all kind of sort of grew up on movies and television. You know. Just think of the word
flipper and you've got it time actually, oh slipper before your time. Yeah, well, but you I'm sure you must be aware of all the various kinds of entertainment that involved dolphins displaying not only incredible intelligence, but seemingly wanting to communicate with humans, to play with humans, to be friendly with humans. And when the owners say, okay, Flipper, go get that ball that's three miles away, and they, oh, they go gleefully after the
ball. People forget that it may not just be because of the intelligence of the animal. It's because of the actual training, and that's different from an
animal understanding the language per se. Well, this is fascinating. I love it, but we should probably get back on topic to what good people from the show are like to hear, which is, Oh, let me let me just say one more thing about this reason I brought up is because what they're what the scientists are now saying, is that if that breakthrough happens, they can now use this as an application to prepare to communicate with alien intelligences
like the movie Arrival. If we don't know how to translate aliens talking to us or us talking to them, whatever this new technology will be that might work with dolphins, they're hoping we can apply it to the next step, which is extraterrestrials. And so, did you interview a scientist about this?
No, I just I just picked up some information and some quotes from the Actually, the Bloomberg News organization got a couple of quotes from scientists involved, and I threw those into my story and they and they mentioned the extraterrestrials. Actually, the extra trustrial was mentioned by a news organization called futurism dot com. This is an organization that deals specifically with science and technology, ongoing science
information. And they had a lot of interesting things to talk about this particular thing that's going on, and they brought up the idea that a really good application of this technology would be alien in intelligence. And I think they're absolutely right. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really interesting. You know what
else is funny. So there's a lot of stories and it seems to be a lot more scientists kind of open to these ideas and surprisingly bringing up how their science applies to the search for E. T. And yeah, cool enough. You know, this is the exact topic of what were you and I are going to talk about tonight. WECE had a story today that was titled we are on the verge of discovering Aliens according to these scientists, and it's about a new book that came out I just read this and I ordered
it on Kindle, so I'm excited to look at it. But it's called Aliens, the World's Leading Scientists on the Search for extraterrestrial Life. And you know, I've been saying that for years. You and I have often teased did those people who keep saying, oh, disclosures just on the horizon, This is going to happen tomorrow, the government's going to really read something about
aliens. And it hasn't happened. But honestly, I keep saying the same thing that I feel like we're on the verge of the discovery of extraterrestrial life, and I mean like microbes or something like that, which is what this book is talking about. But the years I've been saying that, it hasn't happened. But it does feel like we're getting closer, doesn't it. Oh yeah, I'm I'm very quick to respond to people when they say, well,
we're we're about to, you know, shake hands with aliens. Well, well, we don't know that, or or at least we're not being told that, because I could think of a variety of reasons why disclosure is not going to happen, or maybe shouldn't happen just yet in our culture. But I now, do you know offhand if this book is specifically targeted. When they say aliens, do they mean aliens who walk and talk and want to help us or eat us or something like that, I mean real aliens.
Well, it actually covers a wide variety, so it covers not just you know that concept. So it discovered. So they go over like SETI applications, so the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, but it also goes over you know that search and how close we're getting to the microbes. Now when he talks about us being on the verge, he is talking about more about the
microbes or something like that. But still it's it's interesting because I think what has happened over the last few years and keeps continuing to happen, is mainstream
scientists seem to get more and more excited about this idea. Well, I think you're right, and I think the reason for that is they've accepted the idea that two hundred years ago, when we had hardly any technology, look at how far we've come and how much we know and just a very short amount of time, you know, by the scheme of things, and so as long as we don't get into a world war where we just destroy ourselves, then then there will be more time. There will be a future,
and there will be more discoveries. Very very simply, when I see a lot of the UFO stories that come past me that I could write about, I don't find them really compelling, and I don't think that my readers will find them compelling either, And so I'm very fascinated with all of the other new discoveries that are coming out involving astrobiology. It's like it's like it's almost like there's an exoplanet of the week now that's being discovered, and and I
like that. There are many many planets out there. I'm going to write about one tomorrow, a new exoplanet. They're calling it the warm Neptune. But it's not our planet Neptune. It's a new exoplanet, and they're saying that we've already detected that there's water in its atmosphere and strange cloud formations. That's really fascinating me. Who knows what that that means? But boy, I love to write about that now. I agree with you. I read
about that neptune ish planet today and it does seem fascinating. I didn't read a whole lot about it, but you know what you said about there being an exoplanet of the day, it does seem to be the case. It's almost like at this point, you know, like if your beat was exoplanets, you would have like an exoplanet to write about every day. That's actually true, because now that I know, a couple of weeks ago, Time magazine put out their list their annual list of the top one hundred most influential
people in the world, and three of those people are planet hunters. Oh yeah, I noticed that, and you know, I did a story about that, and I was so fascinated by what one of the scientists said.
In fact that she is the team leader of the Kepler spacecraft mission. And for people who've been even just marginally interested in all the planets that have been discovered, the little spacecraft known as Kepler has been discovering planet after planet after planet, and the way it works is it has so far detected about five thousand possible planet candidates, and what has to happen with each of those candidates.
Scientists have to take the individual planet and watch how it orbits its parent star to see if it's consistent, if it's if it's consistently passing in front of its stars so that the star's light dims a little bit and shows that we're looking at all object that's orbiting a big star. So that can take sometimes a year or two years for them to make that determination. So the numbers are out of about five thousand planet contenders, about twenty six hundred have
been confirmed, and that's a really interesting number. That means we know these are definite planets that are orbiting stars. And the scientist went took in another step. She said, and I've actually had some people come back to me and say, how can she say that, how can we know that? Well, a lot of astronomers are agreeing with her when she says, right now we know that for every star that you can see in the sky,
it has at least one planet orbiting it for every star. Now now they're not saying that that one planet could be with life on, it could be at the right distance from the star, that it might have liquid water or you know whatever. All this thing is. Statistically, we're at the point now where every star that you look at in the sky has at least one planet. And then she took it one step further and she said, and
I love this. The next time you look up into the starry night, especially if it's on a clear night and you can even see part of the Milky Way and you can see thousand, thousands and thousands of stars, she said, don't look at it as if you're looking at stars. Remind yourself you're looking at thousands of solar systems. Oh my god, do I love that. I agree. I mean, when I read your story and your
title, that just like really hit me. The idea that every star is a solar system, And like you said, yeah, and you know people have argued with you on that. But even if you know the idea, which I don't think everybody work, the majority of stars you're looking at are actually solar system That is amazing. I mean, that is so incredible. And the idea that and we'll get into this. You know, of course
that you know, we're a solar system and we don't know that. You know, the one solar system that we know very well has a planet that has life with intelligence on it. We don't know that every solar system isn't
like that. That's right, And and when you look at pictures some of the best pictures taken by the Hubble Space Telescope of star clusters and just within our little galactic neighborhood of the Milky Way, and and you you're it just takes your breath away when you see these thousands and thousands and thousands of little points of light. Excuse me. And several years ago Hubble took some other pictures in what has now come to be known as the Hubble Deep Field Imagery.
And what the research is. What the engineers told Hubble to do was to find some dark patches in the night sky. And I think the first time they try this, they had Hubble aim its mirrors and its lens in the area of our earth, some major the Big Dipper, and they said to Hubble, just open it up, because we can see a lot of dark areas there where we know there are no stars, so just punch it
up. Just let them know if there's anything else out there. And oh my god, the pictures that came back, the first pictures clearly showed ten thousand galaxies. And then they realized, oh, wait a minute, if that's typical of everything around us. And then they did the math and here comes the head exploding again, and they're stop that. They're talking now about billions and billions of galaxies and those galaxies have billions and billions of suns,
and those suns have trillions and trillions of planets. Can you can you feel my head exploding? As we get into this, It's like, it's like, how can we grasp that? We can't? You know what? I go ahead, I'm sorry. I was just gonna say, how can we grasp it? Because because we can't, we can only maybe talk about it, but we're not even show what we're talking about because it's part of reality. And that's a little scary, but it's true. Yeah, And you
know what else is scary and true? What this reminds me of. I mean, this is an area or we're getting so much data coming in that we can't handle it. I mean, there's so much data coming in and it takes so much analysis to look into it that what we'll discover in there is amazing. Another field that reminds me of it is DNA. We're getting so much data on DNA that you know, if someone when people study it, we're learning how to unlock things and change things. There was this story
the other day. How if you're gonna if you live another fifty years, most likely you're gonna live a thousand years, meaning that they think, you know, we're that close to being able to unlock aging to where people will age much more slowly. I mean, the discoveries on the horizon are extraordinary in these two areas where we're just flooded with information, and it seems to
really be having an impact on scientists. And the reason I say this in particular is a couple other stories you've talked about so and we'll talk about each of them, are that you've written about in particular. So one about a Harvard scientist that's talking about you know, radio beams being used for you know, aliens could be using those to travel the universe. Or this other astrophysicist that you wrote about who has talked about ets may have already lived and died
in our own solar system. I mean, scientists are really taking all of these numbers to heart and going speculating in ways where when we were growing up, regardless of our generations, you know, those were sci fi writers who were speculating those things, not scientists like they are now. Yeah, you know this, this one that you just mentioned about ets may have already lived and died in our solar system. What he's basically saying, and he's his
name is Jason Wright. He's an astrophysicist from Sylvania State University. And he's been basically suggesting that ancient aliens may have already lived on some of the nearby planets in our solar system hundreds of millions of years ago. Uh but but but for whatever reasons when they vanished, they vanished so far as far as we know, without a trace. And and he's he's suggesting that we have to figure out what kind of things to look for that might still be around.
And you know, the people who go crazy every day looking at all the the Martian Rover pictures and claiming that they see spoons and rats and homes and cars and and things. See there it is it is proof then big Foot, which is true. I must have missed that particular day. But it's funny. I think you wrote about it even but that was a few years ago. But anyway, but I wrote about bars well, I hope I wrote about it with with with an ounce of you know, speculation and
suspicion. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's like we when I interviewed this this professor, I asked him, how how far back does he think you have to go in time to find where aliens might have lived somewhere else in our Solar system and if maybe any of them are still lingering out there, and and he's he's pretty convinced that there aren't any now that we've we've explored our solar system robotically, and it just doesn't seem like any aliens have
left stuff behind that we could still find because the planetary the planets themselves physically change over eons, the planetary tectonics change and things get get covered, and that kind of stuff has happened here on Earth. So it's really it's really difficult to find things. I mean, how far down in the ground do
you have to drill to find dinosaur bones here? And people are talking about, well, how far are we going to have to drill with a robot spacecraft on the surface of Europa, one of the main moons of Jupiter before we can find our way clear to hitting part of the big ocean that we think is there, and what kind of surprises might we find there? But well, you know. And here's one of the things that's frustrating al andro is is that people think, well, all right, let's let's let's go.
Let's put a ship together next week, let's launch it the week after. Well, we'll get to Jupiter what like a month later, No, try six years later, you know, And then what happens is I think the next step for going to Europa, for example, is to send a robotic spacecraft there, and that spacecraft, I don't believe we'll even land. It will just orbit closer to Europa than any other ship has that we've sent out there, and then we'd have to send another ship out there to actually
see if we can dig into the crust. And I believe that when President Trump gave NASA the most recent budget for the year coming up twenty eighteen, I believe that they realize that there's not enough money in there to send a ship to Europa. Yeah, that's unfortunately. So, yeah, it's part
of the frustration. It's like, you know, especially for like old guys like you and me, you know, Generation X and baby boomer here, like how much longer can we can we wait and hold out that we're still going to be around when anything is discovered, I don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime. That's very frustrating to me. Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't. I hope you're wrong that you know anything
will be because I mean, Mars might have something. But back to your point, you know, with what the astrophysicist was talking about, it's very similar, it seems to what Ben McGee, our mutual friend, had said. He even did a talk at the UFO Congress about it. What he talks about as zeno archaeology, but he talks about the same issues you're talking
about now. His point is that archaeologists look at a police investigation scene, for example, and they think, oh my god, these guys are just throwing all the evidence because archaeologists are so careful in how they extract artifacts from a site. And his point being that if we're going to look for those sort of artifacts on other planets, then we better create a discipline called zeno
archaeology where we understand the tools that will be necessary. But he makes the point, like you just did, that even if we start that field, people would study for years. It would take years for the spacecraft to incorporate these ideas, and then even more years to develop these craft and these tools, and then even more years to send them out into space and for them
to get anywhere. So yeah, it is frustrating when we talk about these exciting at least projects and crafts getting to Europa that the timelines are so large. What we need literally is warp drive from star Trek or hyper spaces from Star Wars, or to live a years old. We need that. Uh yeah, I know, I mean we but we need that kind of technology
to get us to places sooner. Yeah, because because even the science, the scientists who are working on these projects now for NASA or for the European Space Agency and other organizations, these people aren't going to be around by the time that we might have some more technology that can that can show us or to show them that their missions might actually be be possible, they won't be around. So I feel their frustration as well. It's just not easy.
You know, many times I've thought that I was born about three hundred years too soon. I would might have been born in the twenty third century of the starship Enterprise, And it's like, you know, you know, give me warp speed, you know, Mitsulu let's go, let's get the Jupiter in like an hour. Well, now, that might not happen during your lifetime. True, well, that's true. That's true, because I'll be too chicken to even get on one of those spaceships. But by the time
we yes, what were you saying? Sorry? You were saying, oh, I'm sorry. Well that was a nice possible but a couple of commercial spots then, you know, I was just gonna say that as we get older, and as the technology of these things gets more interesting and more sophisticated, you know, we we people of our age age group, now we'll be spending a lot more of our time just doing what we can to just keep walking and staying healthy, you know, for the rest of our lives.
And and that's also part of the frustration of living in this time, at least it is for me. And you know, I can't speak for everybody else, but I wish things were moving much faster cheologically so that we we could do things. I saw a thing a couple of weeks ago where we're very close. I think this summer, one of the countries in the world is going to stop offering hovering taxicabs. Can you imagine that over over
New York City hover taxicabs, where there's already too much air traffic. So I have a feeling, you know, when we all of this, that you're it makes you very self reflective, and that you think a lot about your own mortality uh in these topics and this, which is kind of strange
uh to me. And it's surprised because when I read your stories about these exciting discoveries that are happening on a daily basis, it makes me excited for right here and right now, whereas it seems like when you're writing these stories, a lot of this stuff makes you feel like, oh man, you know, this is cool stuff, but the fruits of these efforts are going
to be realized for many years. Well. I can remember growing up in New Hampshire and going to movies and seeing all the all the great science fiction movies in the past and marveling and all the technology and all the travels, whether you're time traveling or space traveling, and I remember getting caught up in all of that, and then and then being part of the original space program with all the astronauts and the moon shots, and and I got caught up
in that and and I do get caught up now with the stories then I'm writing about because I want to convey some kind of excitement or fascination or maybe hope to the readers, so that they don't give hope that that is going to be a future in science. I mean, I remember when when I heard that the President wasn't giving NASA the budget that they really needed to make
these kinds of things happen. They were hoping for enough money to go to to do a man mission to an asteroid and to figure out how to best protect our planet from any wandering asteroids that might be headed in our direction, because we don't yet have the working technology to prevent an asteroid from hitting us, and Nessa had had many plans on the drawing board to figure out how to do that, and and now they don't have enough money to do it
for a few years. Because you got a lot of scientists who are saying, well, we've been tracking the asteroids so we know which ones are a threat to Earth, so we're pretty good for a couple of hundred years. Duh. I mean, how to deflate you know, your attitude, It's say, well, wait a minute, the big meteorite that came crashing over Russia like three or four years ago and broke a lot of windows and caused a lot of people to get hurt. When this thing came out of the
sky, sonic boom was like crazy. One of the scientists who I had to talk to said to me, we didn't know that thing was coming. It took us by surprise. It came in that fast. I want, really, we don't have we don't have a system set up. Well, he said, you know, most of the big ones that are out there between the orbits of Mars and Jupi or in the asteroid belt, we pretty much kind of know what their orbits are are and we can track them.
But there are others that that they can slip by, because remember when they're coming at us from the from the darkness of space, and if the sun is not really shining on them, we might not see until it's too late because it's so dark. Oh, I didn't realize that, And he's right, wow, you know, and so yeah, you would think that that the planet, well, at the very least, wouldn't the nations of our planet be wise enough to put some money into putting a planetary defense system together?
To deflect any incoming rocks that could cause us some problems. I mean, really, you do what's right to protect yourself, including your planet. So I've been writing about some of that stuff too, the asteroids, because that's the kind of thing that frightens me, the fact that we just don't know with a lot of if a lot of it is it's like a crapshoot.
We're either going to get by. We keep hearing the stories about how, well, next Wednesday at two o'clock, asteroid QRXYZ is going to come close to the Earth by about one point five million miles, and then you know, the news reporters will say, well, well, that's like just as the crow flies, that's nothing. You know, it's just gonna skim by it. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, skimming by us doesn't mean that we're ready to protect ourselves from it, And I would just think
that our attitude about that should change. It's just me, well, our attitude towards most things that along those lines are when it comes to the natural world, is not to learn more and protect ourselves. Currently it's more yeah, to make money off of it and for the short term effects. But now you're bumming me out. I know, well, well, you know, if we're not going to be here to enjoy the fruits of our labors.
A lot of scientists are saying, we really should go to some of these asteroids because there's a lot of interesting materially that we can use, that we can mine, that we can use as points of departure to get us tomorrows and to some of the other planets. We just need to be able to do this systematically. And if they don't have enough money to do it, it's like, well, why are we doing this? Why do we
have a space program? I mean, I'm very happy that we have Coupler and that next year we're going to have this amazing new telescope called the James Web telescope is going to be able to reach further out into the universe than Hubble and and in fact, uh that telescope and I think one other will actually be able to to look at and show us the discs of ex planets where we're not able to do that yet, and that'll be interesting, and
we're and we're not gonna have to wait a year. I mean no, I'm saying we will have to only wait about a year instead of waiting like seven years to send a ship back to Saturn or Jupiter. I mean we will. We will soon be able to actually see other planets instead of just seeing artists illustrations that I keep putting in my stories. You know, I would like to see what some of these planets look like. Uh that that
will be very fascinating, I think. Yeah. Well, since the tone has kind of gone to a more less positive type of area, I guess I could bring up this story too, which I'm interested to hear. What your reaction and how you felt about this story was, you know, the NASA astronaut who explained why he knows aliens have not visited Earth. I know, you know, I come up upon this kind of thing a lot.
Every time I have interviewed an astronaut over the years that I've been talking to astronauts, I always make it a point to ask them, what do you think about UFOs? Have you ever seen anything that you couldn't explain if you talked to and if your colleagues have you ever been told anything? Is there like a point of departure that NASA will allow you guys to talk about? And you and I are talking about Alan Bean. Now, Alan Bean was one on Morockers. He was on Apollo twelve. I believe he was the
fourth astronaut after Armstrong was and and he continued with the space program. He did missions on Skylab, and he was part of the joint American Russian Apollo Sawyers testlif And now what he does and when he retired from NASA, he came an artist and he paints experiences of his fellow moonrot walkers, and he's very good at it. And he basically, he told an Australian news site basically, and this is a quote from m he said, I do not
believe that anyone from outer space has ever visited the Earth. And he said, one of the reasons I don't believe they've been here is that civilizations that are more advanced are more altruistic and friendly, like Earth, which is better than it used to be. So they would have landed and said, and I love this part of Alejandro. They would have landed and said, we come in peace. And we know from our studies that you you people have
cancer that kills people. Well, we solved that problem fifty years ago. And here's the gadget that we can put on a person's chest and it will cure care cancer. We will show you how to make And you know, I was reading this, Alejandro, and I'm thinking, well, that's what doctor McCoy has in Star Trek. You know, he has a little device at the Triquarterer, and he can he can take care of people's diseases.
And yet this astronaut alan Bean is saying that, well, if they were astronauts from another planet, they would be they would be, of course, very friendly, and they would help us solve cancer. And I read that and I thought, no, how do you know that, mister astronaut. How could you properly know what another civilization might think, what their technology is, how they would feel about us. How could you know that? And that's my gripe with a lot of these people, with the scientists who claim
that none of this can be happening. We're not being visited by anyone because they couldn't possibly get here. But if anybody did get here, well we can tell you why they would do this and that, how can we tell you what would go on? Remember a few years ago, I believe, when Pope Francis was asked what he would do if there were Martians that actually came, and how he would react if one of them asked to be baptized and the Pope said, well, the Marshall wants to be baptized, Why
would we say no? You know, I you know, I would have preferred if the Pope had said something like, if we're going to be visited by someone from thirty three light years away, how do we know that they even know what baptism is? How do we know what's important to them on a spiritual level? How can we know this stuff? Well? But I mean we don't. Yeah, but I mean, I think it's fair in their defense to speculate. We speculate a lot of what we do. All
of this stuff is just purely speculation. We don't know a lot, but we all have our speculations and our beliefs based off of our worldviews. So I could see why the pope, I mean, some people believe that you know. Uh. In fact, that's what a lot of theologians believe, is that Jesus has had has probably manifested in the forms of extraterrestrials if they're out there, and to preach and to try and save them, so they
would know it and that's what theologians believe. Now, this Alan Bean guy, I think it's fair for him to speculate and have this idea, although when he uses a word he knows that's going a little far. He doesn't know he's speculating like everybody else. Yeah, so I guess that's some ego. You know, I am right, and you know, he's entitled to
his opinion. I mean, he walked on the moon and I gave him that, But it doesn't mean that he can he can start proselytizing about something that he truly doesn't know about, and that's that's that's I have a problem with people who do that when they just think that they know more about what's going on in the universe and the rest of the public, and they try and push their ideas onto them, like snake oil salespeople from the Old West.
I don't like that, dude. It's a taking advantage people out there who really want to believe in something. And I don't like the idea of just trying to formulate people's beliefs when you don't really know the answers. I would much rather hear people who like can Allen Bean saying, you know,
what. I don't know the answer, because he'd also said for that story he said there are billions of stars and that these stars have planets around them, and then he said, so statistically, there must be many planets around many stars that have formed life. And I like that. It's a good statement. It makes sense. He can just stay with that and give people hope that, Wow, it probably is life out there. Whatever kind of
lafe that that gives people hope. So what do you think that? What do you think then of someone else you've written about lately who has also speculated about his own belief systems And I actually wrote about him well before. We both have I have a Huffington post on what he's talked about this before. But Ridley Scott, what do you think about him coming out and saying what
he's saying? He has a very different thing I know. And the thing about Ridley Scott, and for your audience who may not know who really Scott is and what he's actually currently promoting, which is the latest in the alien movie franchise Ice, which Oh, and did you like it? I don't know? It was okay, it was another alien movie. And if you know what alien movies are you know what's going to happen. Now. I
love Space and it has some beautiful space shots. You know, of course it cg but some beautiful shots of the the spaceship flying in space and and you know, flying around this planet, and beautiful shots of this planet. But otherwise it was an alien movie. I mean it was. It was so nothing super exciting to me. But but certainly you can understand I mean Ridley Scott's views of aliens, like I think you're going to get into just now. I mean, he doesn't really have I think, a positive view
outlook on anything at all, humans, right or aliens. Yeah, he's promoting this film. He wants people to go to it. And in one of the interviews that he gave a couple like a couple of weeks ago, he was very clever, I thought when he he let the interviewers know that. I actually think he was on stage and he was just talking to an audience and he basically said he thinks aliens really exist and we should be afraid
of them. And then he said I believe in the superior beings. And then he went on this an expert who we called an expert that he was talking to someone at NASA apparently allegedly told Ridley he said, have you ever looked into the sky at night and you mean we're the only ones here or where it? Well, that's ridiculous. Well I go along with that, you know, I believe that. And and then then Scott said something like that, he was told there is something like one hundred or two hundred entities
aliens that could have a similar evolution to what we're going through now. So then then he ends his little thing about aliens by saying, so if you see the big thing in the sky, run for it. And you know, when I when I saw that quote, I was sure what he meant by that when he said run for it? Was he saying run towards the object or run away from the object? I think away. I'm pretty sure
he meant away. Couldn't figure that out. I'm pretty sure he meant away because he said that they would they'll wipe you out or something like that. I forget his exact quote, but it was something similar to that, essentially, don't mess with them. Yeah, so I mean he has h Yeah,
he said, yeah, a different take. Well, I was just gonna I was gonna say that he said that he says they're a lot smarter than we are, and he thinks that earthlings should show a little respect to the aliens, and he his quote ends with a lot smarter, and if you're stupid enough to challenge them, you'll be taken out in three seconds. Yeah, and you know, and I'm thinking I wouldn't even think it would take that long three seconds. In about a second, I think aliens with
the technology could take care of us in a lot shorter time. Yeah. Well, and you know, we know there have been incidents where the Air Force has scrambled jets to chase strings lights in the sky and the lights seemed to disappear or outmaneuver them, or even more incredible, like you know in Iran in the seventies that case were a huge shot at this object or another similar cases in the Air Force that did this in what Chili, I think
it was. So if those were the type of things he's talking about, Luckily it seems like they were a little more a little more Alan Bean alien ish in that at least they just said get away from me, you little bug, and they didn't hurt anybody. But yeah, and you and you and I both know generally speaking, the aggression, you us being aggressive towards them that they don't kind of come along and start chasing our airplanes and our
you know and our military jet fighters looking for a fight. You know, we're the ones who are going up the thinking, whoa, we're going to bring this ship down. Yeah. Uh just love the well, I love the attitude. People wonder why they don't land on the White House lawn and say, here we are, let's be friends. Pretty funny. So I guess when it comes down to uh or I guess you know, now that we're kind of getting long on time and we probably ought to kind of wrap
things up. I did want to talk about something that is a little off topic. It's still extraterrestrial, and that's what's fun about all this because I think people are still into space and stuff, you know, if they're interested
in UFO. So I just your last story, which I thought was really cool, another thing that came out, and it's just what I like about a lot of this and a lot of the space stuff, which is just I've always been interested in space, even before we started making these discoveries, but so many times what is discovered is completely different than what we would expect to discover. And now that we're learning more and more about Jupiter, I
mean, it is super weird. And you wrote about these gigantic oval storms, but they're finding so much weird stuff on Jupiter, So tell us a
little bit more about that. Yeah, and not just on Jupiter. For for decades, what happened was we were always under the impression that Jeter, Saturn and other gaseous planets didn't really have solid cores, the gigantic balls of gas constantly spinning around and holding their shape by gravitational forces and magnetism and and and now they're not sure because of the information coming back from from the Cassini
spacecraft. Uh, they're not sure, not the Cassini, but but the Juno spacecraft, because Cassini is that Saturn are amazing things, but the Juno spacecraft is coming back with information that indicates these amazing storms. And and they're not sure how much more magnetism is around this planet and just how really dangerous it is compared to all of the other planets in the Soul System MH. And and how how much more irregular magnetic field is about Jupiter and and some
of these storms that the Juno craft has photographed. Some of these storms are as big as big as the Earth. I mean, even the great Red Spot that that amazingly famous red cyclone that's been uh photographed and video and filmed on on Jupiter for decades. You could fit three earths side by side into
that storm. I mean, these are incredible numbers for how the sizes that we're talking about, and and so, and you know, and then and then, and then You've got all these moons that are circling both Saturn and Jupiter, and now we're finding almost daily moons that are showing signs of liquid ocean to methane, and and it's like, really, what is going on here? Why are we suddenly finding water in places that we never thought was
there before. It's like, we have to keep exploring. We have to we have to go back to these places because you know, there are a lot of things that Steve Hawking, Professor Stephen Hawking, theoretically the smartest man on the planet. He keeps saying that if mankind, if Earthlings are going to survive, we are going to have to leave Earth and find another place to live, and that we better do it within the next thousand years.
So we have to start setting the pace for our future generations to get ready to leave our planet, because our planet will not be able to sustain us if it keeps going in the direction that we're taking it. So that's a big deal that when you get a guy like him saying, hey, we need to get ready, we need to pack our bags and stop thinking where else we're going to move to. I don't think enough people totally get that or take him seriously enough about that. The stuff that's going on in Jupiter
that we never knew before. This is important for us to know that our planet can be impacted by things like Jupiter. I said in my story the
other day about Jupiter. I said, look, you can see these great pictures that are in my story, but why don't you go outside tonight and have your own introaction with Jupiter. If you've got a clear, starry night all this week, Jupiter and the Moon are doing a little dance in the sky, and just look up and even with a small pair of binoculars, just it's on Jupiter, and you will see not only Jupiter, but it's four main moons, including Europa that has that ocean that's that's like an amazing
thing to tell people to do. You know, It's like, hey, folk, it's not just an astronomy one oh one, lesson, go outside look at this thing and tell yourself you're looking that dot in the sky could have an ocean around it. Well not could astronomers think that Europa is a gigantic ocean with maybe life. But that that's amazing to me. You know. So I when you said before that I was bringing you down because I wasn't excited about a lot of things. Well, I'm excited about this kind
of stuff. I am fascinated by the fact that we're not already there digging, digging into Europa and finding life. I just love that kind of stuff. Uh. That is really good to hear it. Because I was hoping that we would be able to wrap this up on a positive note. And certainly that's something we share and I think the listeners share. Like I mentioned earlier, is the wonder of space. And I think, you know, you have a really really good point that you can have your own personal interaction.
You can go out there and look and see Europa and possibly be looking at a planet with you know, maybe even large creatures swimming around in that ocean. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And you know the other thing about looking at Jupiter and it's four moons. He's like, you went outside tonight and looked at Jupiter and you saw the moons like maybe two on either side of Jupiter. And then if you go out tomorrow night and you look at it again, you might see three of the moons on one side of
Jupiter and one on the other. Because these moons are orbiting Jupiter and they do it like every day, so their positions change every day. I think that's amazing that you can just go out and see that they change their position. That's that's fascinating me. That's astronomy. It's it opens the imagination to what's going on out there and all you have to do is look up and see it. Amazing stuff. Well, thank you for joining us once again.
Lee. Lots of fascinating and fun stuff and it's always great to hapank you and it's always great to be here. Thank you so much. To my good buddy Lee Spiegel. Some really cool, interesting stuff. He's such a funny guy. I love talking to Lee. So insightful and uh, we always get feedback on his feelings. About his readers, don't we So yeah, so that's what I mean by insightful, I guess, but really
interesting stuff. If you haven't read his articles, we post them at the open minds well often if they're et or alien related, we post them at the open Mind UFO news group, or I post them regardless of what he's writing about, on my Facebook page. So you could go to my Facebook page or the open Mind's Facebook page, I guess if you want to get them all, you could go to mine. And I think better than at posting his stories than he is. So I'm out there promoting on Twitter and
Facebook his stories, it feels like more often than he is. So he's just busy writing. So he's got to get these stories out, interview these scientists and aliens and UFO pilots and stuff, and I get the stories out. So he provides a great service. It's wonderful to have, you know, a mainstream media person doing this sort of thing. He's like the only dude out there doing it. So good Lee Spiegel, So thank you again
to Lee. You can go to huff Post and google Lee Spiegel, or even if you just google Le Spiegel, you'll find all of his stories and some really interesting stuff. In fact, this new one he was talking about the dolphins, I noticed I think they had it on the front page. I saw it on some feed, so it's getting some traction already because of course it sounds fascinating, so really interesting stuff, so check that out. I also want to thank Martin Willis again so much for being on the show
and helping us with the news at the beginning of the show. Also, don't forget that we have our Open Minds video portal where you can see lectures from the UFO Congress. We actually just posted last week of Vonn Smith. So von actually won a Lifetime Achievement at our conference award because she's been doing
this for years. And if you go to YouTube, you can see the free video of her winning that award and some really cool footage of her on different television shows back in the nineties, you know, promoting her work. So you could watch her lecture right now on the on demand video portal, which of course you can find that open mind dot tv. We've got ads all over it there for you to find it, and it's just a really low monthly feed. You could see literally hundreds of videos, some of the
best UFO lecture stuff out there. So I think it's a great way to learn. I mean, if you are curious about an author and if you should buy their books or not, it's a great way to get some insight on some information. Not only that, I think it's a very efficient way to learn a lot quickly and then you know what sort of books to buy, or what sort of research to get into, or you know, if
you don't have time to do all of that research. Just like this podcast, it's a quick way, you know, an hour and a half a pop to be able to get a lot of information and find out more about the work that all of these people do in their own words, and with it being in video, you get to see them and of course there are power points in any videos they may be showing, so really good stuff.
Go to Open mindsat TV for that. All right, Well, I want to thank Caleb Hanks for the opening and close music, and the last I
would like to thank you the listeners for being here. I do have shows scheduled for the next couple of weeks, so ahead of the game, right now before I head to my cruise in early June, so of course I won't have a show then, but I think I'm gonna be able to post the show early that week maybe, or maybe just save it to when I get back, to make sure that there's only a one week gap there.
But I've got it covered, guys. I've got lots of interesting coming stuff coming up here for you, so stay tuned and we will talk to you next week. People, audios, moot chachos, your motions as Curious Ring