Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I have with me my news Dude Martin podcast UFO. Willis that's me. That's a little sing song way that you said that there you must be happiness. Well, yeah, you announced my show. It's a free plug already. How can it get any better? I know, love in the plugs, Love in the pugs. It's the least I can do for you, coming and doing the show almost every week, even when
you're in Russia or Austria or wherever the heck you are. Yeah, even when the weather out there is atrocious. And how is it right now? We have a beautiful fall season right now. You're in Maine, right, I'm in Maine, and it's what we would call crisp, nice crisp mornings, dew on the grass. The leaves are starting to turn. And I don't know if you know this, but in you know, the area where I live in New England, it's the number one foliage see in the entire
world, with I think Japan the second. So we have people just of course it's just starting now, but we have people just flocked to the area and you can't even go like toward the White Mountains or anything like that. It's just packed. Wow, that's amazing. So we'll get into UFOs really soon here. But I have one more question about the area that you live in. I recently have been watching Castle Rock and actually we blew through the whole season, uh, and it was very goods Are the is main known
for a lot of weird people who kind of kill others? Is that your question? Yeah, because I mean that is where I guess Stephen King's from and where a lot of books are centered. So yeah, he does. He lives in Benga Bang, that's right, which is north of me, about one hundred and twenty five or one hundred and thirty miles something like that, and he's got a great imagination. Now, you do have some very
colorful characters in the state, that's for sure. But as far as murders, I think it's not too many murders that I know of in the state. It's pretty low good so happens. I don't think there's ever been a time. Are you much of a Stephen King officionado? I started reading Stephen King back in the nineteen seventies. For most of your listening audience wasn't even born yet, because, like you said, he's very creative and essentially at
the end of the books. I read a lot of his books, and ninety percent of the time I'm disappointed in the ending because it's usually some sort of supernatural force that is responsible for whatever crazy is going on in the book, and it's usually just weird, doesn't make sense. And it is creative, I guess, but it's never aliens, And I wonder maybe I can Tom. Yeah, that one was alien. It was well, that was everyone was getting like real, they were doing like really weird stuff in the
town and everyone was acting really bizarre. And what it was was there a there was a UFO buried under the ground, like really deep and it was like coming back to life. Oh yeah, wacky about it around it. Oh so I forgot about that. That was a good one. Yeah, that was a good one. Yeah. I I My first Stephen King book that I read was called The Shining m Oh. Yeah, that's great. I was living in Colorado at the time and that set place out and you were I was, Yeah, I was living out in the uh not in
the Denver more in the Boulder area. Long lot. You must have. Yeah. Well, what's funny too, is is there is a reference to well a lot of his older books in Castle Rock, and there's a shining reference where one of the characters was like, yeah, I was working at this hotel in Colorado in the winter. But that was kind of funny. Anyway, Okay, getting directly into UFO stuff. And I want to tell people who my guest is, because my guest is a very unique individual.
Wow, you've been I've been waiting. I've been waiting for you to tell me who the guest is. You were making guesses. You thought maybe it was dan Aykroyd, you thought maybe Tom DeLong, and and then you thought George Clooney for some reason, and that was probably your closest because well, and I'm breaking the news tea now I guess, but you're my guest. Oh oh, thank you, thank you. We're just pretending. Mark Martin
already knew here's the guest. But yeah, So sometimes we like to do a show where we catch up on news and instead of having a guest blabbing in our face, annoying us with all about me, me, me, me me, and not giving me time to talk about myself, just kidding, you know, actually, instead of you know, talking about sometimes we have Leon or just Martin and sometimes Martin and Lee at the end of the
year we get together. But I thought it was a good time to just kind of catch up on some UFO news and to break down some items because there's some important stuff going on to the stars keeps doing stuff, of course, and we'll talk more about that in a little bit. But yes, today's show is going to be me and Mark are Mark And I sorry why I call you Mark, Probably because you said you might have market Antonio. You put that in my head that I did. It's my fault. I'm
me. Yeah, No, I'm not. It's still my brain malfunctioning. But that's it. It must be. While I'm thinking to Mark because I think you may or may not have him. It sounds like you might not have him at your next show, but you're going to have him on soon soon. He was with me at Devil's Tower in Wyoming. So anyways, Martin and I are going to talk about some of the news that is fit to print out there, and there's lots of interesting stuff going on, So
let's get into the world of UFOs right now. Yeah, let's go ahead and let you start it off. What you got? Yes, Well, first of all, you just mentioned to the stars. I have to say I'm on their mailing list, and a lot of times, you know, I don't know, I skip over them because a lot of times they're selling like T shirts or something like that, and I just don't even look,
which makes me miss things. I wish they could have like a separate mailing list of just like their news, because I want to talk about they are talking about the material interest of magnesium zinc bismuth. I hope I'm saying that right. And this is first of all, I want to ask you of the Adam research project. I searched everywhere. I just can't seem to find what Adam stands for. And I know it's out there somewhere. Do you have that the top of your head? Oh? Geez. You know who
reminded me last time? I think it was Jason McClellan on my live show. I think he was watching or at some point for somewhere he reminded me, maybe it was just on YouTube of what the name was, and I've already forgotten. So well, I can't find it anywhere, So yeah, I don't think they listed anywhere. I think they've said verbally what it is, and that's why I'm not sure. But it's something about material acquisition,
sort of project all durn acquisition materials. Yeah, something acquisition materials. That's good enough for me, So okay, Well, over the last three months, to the Stars Academy is collected seven pieces of material from multiple sources to study for the atom research project. Each sample represents different elements of potential unidentified
aerial phenomena and how they operate. So that just that one paragraph alone is intriguing and kind of leading all over the place, like are they actually talking about part of a UFO and how would they know it's associated to how it may operate, which I think is I think it's leading. I would like
to know more about it. So according to the accompanying provenance documentation, there are two classes of samples material that was released as a UFP as the UAP was hovering a material that makes up parts of the structure or systems, so that could be the systems. I wish I could see pictures of these, you know, when they talk about this, I mean just to see a
picture of what this supposedly is would be really amazing. Well, the Daily Star posted a picture of some material, but I don't think it is material from them. Of course they are a UK tabloid which often gets the information wrong, and of course they were making a big deal in a positive way, at least for the group about all of this. But yeah, seeing the material would be interesting. So what's great about? What's interesting about this?
And I don't know if you mentioned this, but what you're referring to is on September twenty seventh, just a few days ago, To the Stars released a article and of which you were reading from, and where they're giving us a little more information about the materials they are looking into for their atom research project, which is to look at these materials. Uh. They say
they have seven pieces. What's weird about what you just read? And I think this is kind of what you're alluding to, is that they've said they've collected seven pieces of material from multiple sources. Then they go on to say each sample represents different elements of potential unidentified aerial phenomena and how they operate.
What the heck does that mean is a good question. I I don't know who's writing these but the issue is they're they're they're kind of all over the place, these articles that to the stars, and I think that it's it's sort of an issue. And who was it I was talking to soon I can't read recently. I was talking to someone recently and they were asking, you know, what is kind of their media strategy? What have they done
that way? And I don't know. That's a good question, is what is their media strategy because it's hard to say, and I don't think they have one. I think they're kind of they have a strategy for what they
want to do as a company. They have a strategy for I think communicating to high level individuals within government and even industry, which is great, but whatever that is is vague because they don't, I don't think, have a media strategy that's very clear, nor do they have a public relations strategy that's very clear, because for instance, this article, there is no clear purpose
for what it is they're trying to share or even say. And I get that sense from these articles that they kind of want to share some information, but they're not sure what they want to share, so it's almost like verbal diarrhea. And it's interesting, But what can you make of it. I mean, are they trying to say that all of these samples are potentially from UFOs or what? Well, let me let me just continue a little bit
on in this. And because they're kind of laying that out, you know, they're looking for an approach of unique indicators such as unusual chemical combinations or alloys isotope ratios that indicate material was created outside of our solar system. That would be interesting. I don't know how exactly. Well, I guess it would just be something they've never seen before, or unusual structural composition. And
that's that to me. I think would be something that you would find if say, something was alien from somewhere else and they were advanced the structural composition, you know, just with what we have done in the last few years with all these unusual I forget what it's called. It's the strongest fiber and it's like it's almost like honeycomb. I can't do you know what I'm talking about. No, it's very very thin, but very strong. Okay,
Now we will get hate mail because I forget what it's called. But anyway, Yeah, but I'm just thinking an advanced civilization would have something figured out that would be very unique. Like you know, of course the suppose that Roswell crash. When they saw those materials, it was unlike anything they'd ever seen before. You know, there is speculation of what it might or might not have been, but still you know, it's not around now, we
don't know what it is. One of one of the artifacts on loan, according to Tess Tessa for analysis, a magnesium zinc bismuth sample which has been the source of discussion and speculation for years. The supplied documentation states that it is from a up crash recovery. While the source cannot be verified, this
is particularly interesting, a particularly interesting sample for several reasons. Yeah, we'll get into this piece in just a minute here, but just since you introduced this, just to get back to that intro, what I was going over is that you know, and you read this next sentence, which is according to the company providence documentation, there are two classes of samples, and then they go on to describe one class apparently, which is material that was released
by a UAP, and then they give those bullet points, those three bullet points that you just referenced. But I mean, again, here's the issue. It doesn't really it's makes sense. It's almost like this is like some notes someone threw together. Really, there are two classes of samples. What are the two classes? It's not clear what two classes they are. There's not even clear what the first classes. I would guess that the first class
is material released from a UAP. Is that one class that they're saying. And then when you get into the details, and I kind of I'm channeling Chris Cogswell a little bit, of course, the PHDM chemistry who I had on fairly recently, which is that you know, unusual structural composition for example, it's just a bar for proving that something is anomalous is very very high, and it's really different. So just because something is unusual in structure doesn't
mean that it wasn't necessarily built here on the planet. One of the things that they put in here is isotopic ratios that indicate the material was created outside of our solar system. That adds another layer. If you have this sort of material then and also a structure that we can't define, you know, then that would be interesting or potentially something strange. But so they say they
have seven samples. There's two classes of samples. They kind of define sort of what they're looking for in a way, and then they get into talking about this one sample in particular that they have in detail. Now here's the thing about this sample, and I'll let you explain more about it. They say. Here. Well, let's see they described the sample, and they say, which has been the source of discussion and speculation for years. Hm,
So what have you ever heard of that before? Oh? Yeah, I know exactly what this is, right at least, I'm pretty sure I know what this is. Arts parts. Did you remember arts parts? Yeah? Yes, yes, so years ago and I can't remember what year it
was, but it's got to be like over ten years ago. Quite a while ago, someone anonymously sent Art Bell, who was the host of the famous you know paranormal radio show Coast to Coast AM some samples of material that they said they recovered near New Mexico and that they think was part of the Roswell crash. They looked at it at first they thought it was weird. It looked like it was aluminum, and then it didn't seem like it was weird, but somehow some of it was weird. And this is how it
was described. I know Linda how had also attempted to get some analysis done with it, but they Linda Howe described it as containing layers of businesmuth and magnesium zinc alley and that they couldn't determine why it had those layers. So that seems like exactly what they're describing here, a magnesium, zinc and bismuth layers layered. So I'll let you go ahead and read the bullet points here
of what they say the materials like. Sure. Well, first of all, they say the material is clearly engineered with a distinct layer with distinct layers of magnesium, zinc and bismuth at structured thickness only microns thick. Also that there is no precedent for this structured combination of materials. It is unclear what fabrication processes allow this combination of materials to form an integrated structural component. Theoretical
analysis shows that the material acts as waveguide for terra huts terror heerts. Oh yeah, terror hertz frequencies. Yes, sorry, I've misread that those wavelengths normally would not propagate through this geometry. One side of the sample appears to be tooled, having a defined contour sounds really interesting. There has been an
extensive amount of testing in the material. The two purpose or function of the material remains unknown, and then it ends with the TSA team has already started testing several material samples and will be reporting results as we complete the analysis. So I hope they actually do. I hope they do follow up. And actually, I mean, let's just say Devil's Advocate they come up with something really unusual. Are we going to be the first to know or or is
there a government source that will know ahead of us? Yeah, I don't know who knows how this all worked. Those are some good questions, and I want to get into that because I think that you bring up some really
interesting points. So Linda Howe actually did do more information about this in one of her books because this material it was a mid nineties when it was sent to coast to coast and according to her, they tried to I don't know who, but some people, I think it's in her book High Strangeness tried to recreate this material and they couldn't. So I don't know. I don't know if she's had any interaction with Robert Bigelow and their group in the past.
Of course, many of the members of To the Stars Academy are from also worked with Bige Low. But and if you're not familiar anybody who's new to all of this, you know, To the Stars Academy is a group started by Tom DeLong of very credible people, a lot of people who have worked in defense or for defense contractors, and they started this UFO research organization
essentially with the man who used to run the Pentagon's UFO research organization. So and everybody's trying to figure out what they're up to, and they have, you know, recently released this kind of weird article about how they've apparently got you know, that's what's weird if you if you take this as a whole.
They've got these seven samples. One of them is apparently arts parts, which has been discussed and examined for, like they say, decades, and they go into some detail about it, and one end, it's pretty exciting that they're looking into it and then hopefully it'll be taken more seriously and we can figure out more about it. On the other hand, it is kind of interesting that of all the things that they bring up, they bring up
a historic case that is already out there in the UFO cannon. And I guess one of the thoughts that it makes me think of is just that, you know, a lot of the criticism they've received as they haven't been focused on the UFO community yet, it appears this first kind of Adam project piece that they're willing to talk about comes from the UFO community the heart of it. So interesting stuff, but we'll get to know. We only have a little bit of time left. But quickly, do you know where for the
first break that is? Can you tell me where they found the material to start? Well, that's the thing. It was anonymously sent to them. Oh that's it. They never found out the source allegedly coming from the Roswell crash crash, Well, of course it did, I know. So that's you know, that's a big red flag right there. Uh. And it's just kind of interesting. So uh, we'll get back into more of this in just a second. We've got to take a quick break and then we'll
be back with more. You're listening to Open Mind UFO Radio. For those of you listening to KGr A, you'll hear a short commercial commercial break. The rest of you will hear a short musical interlude we'll be right back.
Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host Alejandro Rojasan and it is I Martin Willis UH, the UFO news guy, talking about some recent UFO news and Martin got right into that kind of the media stuff that I wanted to talk about, which was this latest revelation that came from the To the Stars Academy. And they're regarding their ADAM project, which is to collect and analyze anomalist material, and that immediately they the very first thing that
they discuss is UH material. And one of my other issues with this article is that the UH they also don't as you and I just discussed this, it's got to be arts parts. You know, the description that Linda Howe gives about who helped Art build, you know, look into this stuff. It's exactly what the description is that these guys are giving us. They even say that this sample, which has been the source of discussion and speculation for years, kind of alluding to you that's what this is. But why didn't
they give that history? See? And that that's what's frustrating, I guess, especially for someone like me who's in journalism. If you're gonna write a press release. This is here's a tip for people out there. If you're going to write a press release, what you do is you write the story. That's the best pressure release by far. I don't care who you talk to, trust me, I get I do these quite a bit, and
they're the most effective. You write this story for them because often, especially the smaller papers, they'll print your story just the way it is, and then you're getting all the information you want in there, or at the very least they'll they'll mix it up a little bit. But if you give them a few quotes and stuff, but it's got to have a beginning and an ending and an and uh and it's got to have a point and and that's this is just kind of like this small bit of information without a point.
And then it doesn't clearly, you know, give you the history, which it should behind the material, because if this is some sort of material they're saying that's been out there, you know, they should I feel they should have given that information because and they should have explained, you know, gotten into this whole part that the provenance being non existent with this material really means
you can only take it so far. So I mean, it completely could have been somebody in some lad somewhere who uh sent it to them as a joke, and especially because they're saying from it it's from Roswell, that would most likely be the case. So it's just really this, this article really puzzles me. They give us a little bit of information that is kind of haphazard and unorganized and and there's no real uh idea of what their intent is.
I kind of feel that, you know, they released this video where they were kind of vague and got some negative feedback, so they decided to try to throw people a bone. But I'm not so sure if they did it in a way that that it's going to help them or hinder them. But it all comes back to and I've written them about this, and you know, talk to Lou and it's not Lou's place. This isn't his Lou el Lozando who ran a tip it's not his area, yeah, or of
responsibility. But that I think they need a stronger pr and media kind of plan on what they want to communicate and how, And I think they need to be a little more thorough in their communication because really, if you release information like this, here's the problem and it's kind of similar to what doctor Greer did and who was definitely I think hiding information when he first came out with this creature from the Atacom a baby exactly the at economy. He left
out the entire history of this thing. Yeah, I want to add something to that because basically it kind of skirts. You know, what I do for the real world for a living is sometimes I authenticate artwork or a help involved in authenticating fine art. And I'm working on a really extraordinary piece right now. And guess what the number one thing is provenance? Where did this
come from? What was its history? It's the most important. You know, you look at all the paintings that you know, Picasso's or Money's or whatever it is that bring record prices, and it'll have two pages of prominence. You know where it was displayed and everything, and that's very, very important. So when it comes to something like this, it does make a difference because, like you said, someone could have made this in a lab,
although you know, maybe maybe not. Maybe it's really difficult to make and it would certainly take a lot of time if it was that unusual, But still the most important part, exactly, and you know, the point you make because there is expert opinion such as yours are expert insight that can
be lent to applied to this investigation. So, for instance, I think that that route of conversation is exactly what should have happened here, is that it should have very clearly then stated, you know, we think that this is something unusual. However, here's the provenance, here's what we know about its background, and because of that, we're limited in what we're going to
be able to do with this material. And here's why. And I think you should explain, just like what you did, here are some of the reasons that provenance is so important in some of the problems that can be caused by not having that provenance. And of course I'm sure I would imagine and you would know better that if it doesn't have a provenance, often that is more indicative of a hoax. Yeah, or could it could be well,
when it comes to artwork, there could be an issue with ownership. So that's you know, and the old saying is all great art is stolen, and there are you know, I mean, even the Mona Lisa was stolen you know, at one time, So you know that it's very important, but it all does come down to authenticity when it seems to its origin. You're making another great point here too, is ownership, because that obviously becomes an issue, and it becomes an issue in studying anomalous materials too because of
where they come from and what the ownership is. So I mean, someone could come out of the woodwork and say, hey, you know this guy used to work for me. He took this from my work and then boom, you know, you've got to give the material back. Or it could be someone saying, hey, he took that off of my property. You need to give that back. In fact, this would be an issue.
If this person claims it comes from the Roswell crash, that means it was either from BLM Land And of course we talked with Frank Kimbler, both of us recently and the issues he's had from taking material from BLM Land or it was private property. Either case, there are steps that need to be taken to secure ownership of this material. Otherwise all of this money being spent on
this examination could be for nothing. So I mean, just there are so many issues with that material, and there's so much known about that material. I mean, as a journalist. Let's say they had to say, Hey, Alejandra, we want to tell people about this arts parts that we're looking into. Could you help us write a story. What they wrote was,
you know, only the introduction. They really need to have a whole conversation about what you and I just talked about the background of this thing and the issues that its background brings up. Because those are known factors, they're public factors. There's no reason to hide that information. All that you do, which I was getting into earlier, is become a doctor Greer, where it appears that you're hiding the background because it hurts the credibility of the issue.
In the case of doctor Stephen Greer, that carcass had already been analyzed and had already determined to be human, and of course that was important information you should share with people, I guess when he claims it to be alien. And then of course Gary Nolan, who's now working with To of the Stars, who's an expert with DNA, did an analysis and found out yep, it's human, which is what the prior analysis had found out. And but
doctor Greer and others are still disputing that, but for whatever reason. But I mean it's just I think this article is I don't think that, and I do want to say and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. Well, let me just ask this right off the bat. I mean, what impressions did it give you any like emotional response either way when you read this article or saw that they had written this, or with what they're up to. I mean, what does it make you think and feel? The
first thing I feel is it's spotty. And what I mean by that is it's skirting around anything that that's real meat to a story. I don't want to say it's it. I'm not going to say that it's not credible, but I'm going to say that it doesn't seem to lead anywhere. It doesn't pull you in. And and because all right, if they had a simple thing I know this sounds silly maybe, but even if they had like pictures of it or something like that, it's kind of like we're all just reading
and taking what they're giving us and it's not enough. Yeah, I here's my concern. And I see and I think that your feeling is what a lot of people feel. I mean, it's just confusing and it's like, you know what is it. What are you guys trying to What are you trying to do here? What are you trying to say? And the concern I have is that you know, I'm taking it and of course I am being a little bit hypercritical of the group because I really feel there can't be
a SETI of UFOs the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. You know, the movie Contact came out. At the time set he was still a bit fringe because they're looking for ET. But the movie came out. There are a lot of scientists involved with that organization. It brought legitimate legitimacy to the organization and
now there are really big deal like anything they do makes news. They work closely with NASA and others in astrobiology and looking for life out there, and I think UFOs can have that too, And so I just I get sensitive because I really want to see these guys be the next SETI of you know,
the SETI of UFOs, and I think that you can. In order to do that, you got to kind of communicate in the way that they do, and you have to be very careful in the way that you communicate and professional and at least for someone in journalism, you know who looks at press releases and stuff, this would be, this would go nowhere if you sent this to you know, That's why the only person who wrote about it was the Daily Star, you know, a UK tabloid, Whereas you know,
a more concise explanation of why this is important, what this really means, goes a lot further, not just for the media, but for the general public as well. And so I just and I would love, I just want them to do them as good as they can. But it also lends father because I feel there are a lot of people who want to see them go down, that just want to see this whole thing go away.
And I think it's just why is a great question, And my guests would be and I'd love to hear what you think, but my guess would be, I think that it just disturbed their paradigm. You know a lot of people have been working in UFOs and doing stuff in this field and trying to connect dots and build what they think is going on, and when you have something like this happen, it MUCKs things up. They're getting more attention. You know, Hey, I like the way things work to get out of
here. So I think that people are just you know, a lot of they don't want people messing in in their world, so they unfortunately want to see this all destroyed. I mean, do you get that sense I have because of the emails that I've read from people you know, writing me, you know, asking me questions about them and you know, and making some statements, and I think it's too bad. You know that it's it's like,
well, here it is. You know what I'm thinking. And I may be off on this, but what I'm thinking that some people that are upset about them and want to see them go down have been added a long time. And you know, how can this new kid on the block all of a sudden have all this power and connections and and you know, making some progress. Now wait a minute, you know, Noah, that's my territory. What's he doing here? I think it's something along those lines.
I don't really understand it. I say, you know, anybody that's putting serious work into this to try to figure out, kudos to them. Yeah, exactly. And and this group is more exciting because they're you know, more mainstream, they're they're uh, I mean, these people are tied in with the whole real science industry out there, and that makes it really important
because people are really going to pay attention to what they're up to. And you know, that's why I think that, you know, articles like this, I think it's important that they they have full disclosure, you know, especially if they're saying, this is something that's been out there and debated for decades. Well, what has been debated about it, what's out there about
it, who's looked at it? You know, you need to understand the history of this thing to get that out because of course, luckily we had Antonio june Is working for us when that whole career thing happened, and he is very keyed in with Latin America and the research in UFOs, and so he knew the entire history of that little out of Common critter and so we had written a bunch of stories on that, so people got the backstory on that, so, you know, and it kind of goes along the same
lines as the so called roswell slides. Yeah, you know, it just wasn't followed through. Well, that was kind of a lot of a little different in another way, but I think there was some definitely, there was definitely some shenanigans going on there. Yep, there are some shernan agains. So we'll see what happens with this. And the one hand, it's really exciting that they're doing this. It's really exciting that they're looking at these materials.
Just on the other hand, the way they're at least going about kind of stumbling and haphazardly sharing information with public is just a little weird and clumsy, and I think that they really need to to kind of tidy that area up. But yeah, interesting stuff. Huh Yeah, I like your I like your analogy of we need like a SETI type of situation, you know, because they're the people are there, they're staffed, you know, they have some great people on board with them that you know, are serious.
Yeah, speaking of SETI, Steike mentioned that really crazy dream I had that I told you about. Oh yeah, let's get into that one. One last thing though, is that there's another piece of news that they released on the twenty seventh, which was just a video essentially of Tom DeLong and Lou Alesondo talking about Tom Delong's latest book. So, his latest fiction book, Secret Machines. I think it's the second one. Uh, it's called Secret
Machines of Fire. Within that is based on his UFO research just came out. So there's a video of him and Lou talking about that for a while that you can find on to the Stars. But you probably got that email and I just ignored it, So damn's too bad. Yeah, so, yes, you got a weird you had a weird dream. Oh yeah, this is kind of embarrassing. But I'll just you know, I'm just gonna say what happened, because you know, one can really help their dreams.
So but I think it's funny. I think the listener may get a little bit of a boot out of it. So the other night I was I was working down in Boston, and I was staying in a hotel room and so it was a little bit noisy, and I decided to put my earbuds
in and listen to a podcast. And occasionally I like to listen to it's actually very good Seth Shostak and Jill Tarter do or she's on it a lot, not all the time, but they do a show called a podcast, a great podcast called Big Picture Science and so, and it's really you know, it's on global warming, you name it, it's on everything, not just astronomy and life, possible life out there. So I was listening to
Big Picture of Science and cheth Seth Shostak, who I think he's. You know, he's a really good orator, so you know, he's good at what he does. And so I'm listening to it and I fall asleep. So this is kind of embarrassing, but I'm going to just say it. So I wait. In my In my dream, I'm in this hotel room with a bunch of people that I don't really know. We're like sitting around the lobby, and it's in the middle of the desert, middle of nowhere, and I see a couple of posters and I go up and I read
one and it says SETI just two miles from here. So in my dream, I go out and walk and now don't that part I don't really remember much. So I get to this building, big brick building, and it's like a dome, almost like a observatory, but it's all brick, and I go inside. By the way, you can tell, probably this was a very vivid dream. So I go inside and there's all these like planets hanging from the ceiling and telescopes everywhere, and antique brass telescopes. I guess
it's because I like antiques. I don't know so, and this is one of these dreams where you know, you can even smell like I could smell like it smelled museum musty, you know. And so I look over and there's Seth Shostack and he has a pair of gray headphones on it. Just remember every detail over in the corner. So I start walking over to him, and all of a sudden, I see Jill Tarter and I said,
Hi, Jill. So she's talking to me. She opens her mouth and she had this weird long tooth that was all like hollowed out and stained and really really scary. And so I kept talking to him, looking away. I have no idea where that came from. And then I walk over to Seth and I say, hey, Seth, how you doing? And he looks at me and goes, can't you see him doing my show? And
he's got this little miniature microphone you can just barely see it. He's like talking into him, and I like, hope, So I'm embarrassed and all that. So I walk over to around this partition and I look over at him. He's, well, he's not going to like me for this. He's smoking a joint and it's this real tight joint and he's smoking this joint
and he's blowing the smoke. There's this little tube with a little horn coming down from the hanging down from the ceiling and he's blowing the smoke up the tube and then he continues to do his story and I look over and there's this young kid in a baseball cap and I look and he's like really anxious to talk to him, wait for a show to get done. So but when he got done his show, I kind of said first ahead of the kid, you know, hey, Seth, how are you. It's Martin
Willison. I remember you and I did a show on UFOs. Do you remember that? And Seth's like looking over me, and the kid says, UFOs, they're a bunch of crap, Get out of here. And I walked out totally humiliated. And that was my dream. I know, that's really bizarre. We're going to lose listeners after that one, I hope not maybe, but if you're if you're still here, stay tuned because we're going
to talk more of UFOs. But I thought it was a cute dream, but it's very easy to interpret because well, you just I think, are the type of person to often be like when you walk into a room, I get the sense that you're waiting to be yelled at. Uh wow. Most of the time you walk into the room, you're kind of like, oh, am, I supposed to be here, and it's you walk in
with a presumption that I'm going to get in trouble. Well, you know, I think it might be my upbringing because I had I had manners beaten into me, you know, and yeah, well that's a good thing. Yeah, so, but it might be I didn't realize that I'm gonna have to go to therapy again. No, it's not a bad thing. At least you not entitled where you think, oh, everybody wants to hear from me. You know, I'm the most important person in the world. So
it's not a bad problem to have. It's one of the things that makes you endearing. Okay, well now I'm just self conscious, is what I am. Anyway, I try to figure out the dream. I can't figure you never cares cu but only that I went to sleep with the earbuds, in which I know, I think it's just you. Like the guys, you're a bit intimidated by how intelligent they are and everything, and you'd like to meet them one day, but you'd be nervous that they would not be
as happy to see you as you would. You see that probably now with Seth I did my very first UFO debate, and yeah, that just barely happened because the internet went down. I ran to a hotel room and I couldn't use it there either after I paid for the room, so I put my phone in the window and did the connection to the phone and did the show with him. And he was really good at debating UFOs. I'll tell you that. Well, tell us a little more about it after this next
break. We're going to go to break and then we'll talk more about says shot Stack, but we also will talk about another couple of cool things that have gone on that I think people should take notice of that might not have been able to. So we'll be right back after this short break. If you're listening to KGr or here commercials. If you're listening to the podcast,
you'll hear a short, beautiful musical interlude. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host, Alejandro Rojas and I'm here with Martin Willis. Now you just met and mentioned Seth Shostak, And I know that's a name that a lot of UFO people like to hate, but I'm also a big fan of his because he's very witty. It is frustrating because I've talked to him too, and he gets very dismissive and he hasn't done his research at all on UFOs but still gets on his high
horse, which is a bit frustrating. But when you had him debate who did you have him debate? Myself? Oh? You debated him? I debated him? Yeah, I think it was like also it was like I have like three hundred and twenty some other episodes and I think it was episode twenty or something. It was really Oh, I was daring. I had him toward the beginning. But how do you think you did. I actually
think I did fairly well. Of course, you know, he is really sharp, and he really threw me because you know, he really like I said, you know, so you don't believe there's any way that extraterrestrials are visiting in the Earth, And he said, well, it's possible. Like hell, I didn't expect him to say that, well, so, you know, like I was, he kind of shocked me a few times, and we should say who he is. He is actually the scientist for the
Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute, So very credible person. You probably have seen him on TV several times, very witty. And what's interesting is to your point is that you know, he loves to be dismissive about UFOs and debate, but when he does a lecture, it's all about how extraterrestrials are out there, how et civilizations have to be out there, and it's a great
talk. It's very witty, it's scientific. So that's what's so interesting to me, and it almost alludes to kind of a kind of an internal issue that some of these people have because they're convincing you there are civilizations out there, but they couldn't have come here, and their reason because they couldn't have invented a technology to come here. That's kind of very not very forward thinking.
Yep, And that came up quite a bit. I remember saying something like, well, you know, anything is possible or something like that, and he was kind of he was a little bit you know, intimidating. After I said that, and I did ask him, I said, Hey, what would happen to What would happen if, all of a sudden we found out that UFOs were actually an alien intelligence proof? What would what would happen to your job? To your job security? And he kind of laughed,
And of course he's heard that one many times. I guess he had a really good answer. I wish I could remember exactly what it was, but it was dismissive. But the one thing that I will take from all that time ago was long time ago when I when I did that debate, was I said, what type of evidence? I told him there's radar evidence, there's astronauts. He said, by the way, astronauts or pilots or
any of those are no better of an observer than anyone else. But he he said that it would take an entire wing of the Smithsonian full of material before he'd believe it would be true. Wow, that's the type of evidence. It's very strange. It's really odd that he's like that, because I mean, if you look at it, I think, just taking a stand, taking a step back, and you look at Okay, you've convinced me there are uh, extraterrestrial civilizations out there that are more advanced than we are,
perhaps by thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years. Okay, Seth, you've convinced me of that. The next step, which is to come up with the you know, is to speculate that they may have come up with a technology that would allow them, which is essentially just they may have come up with an understanding of nature in the universe and how it works that would allow them to do what many theoretical physicists think is possible by bending
space time and getting here is not a stretch whatsoever, that's right. And you know, I remember saying to him, what if they've figured out something in physics that we haven't yet, you know, and he actually, I think he was agreeable to that that was a possibility. But you know, the number one thing I do remember also, and this was, by the way, it was episode twenty two, so it's going way back. Wow, let's see, I can't that was twenty twelve, September twenty twelve when
I did that debate with him. But you know that the number one thing is, and I do understand that we can't even conceive of the amount of space between us and the first star. I mean it's just you know, the four or four light years away. I mean, if you put the numbers on it, you can't even visualize something like that. So I do understand there's great distance to travel. Yeah, but you know, I said, what if they can some intelligence can figure out, you know, how
to do that. I understand what he's saying completely, and I totally Yeah. The distances are just incredible, even this whole idea of getting us back to the Moon, because NASA was focused during the Obama administration on getting to Mars. They had the Orion project boeing along with under United Space I forget Ual Aerospace Alliance. Essentially, you know, they're building this SLS, this
giant rocket, and now they've refocused to go back to the Moon. But even getting to the Moon, let alone Mars, is a very big deal for us. Because the distances are so huge. People might not realize that we have not gotten out of lower orbit in a very very long time. We've just been going to the International Space Station, which is very very close. In fact, you know, the Earth has a magnetic field around it that protects us from the radiation of space and the Sun and everything that the
space station, and everywhere we go is inside of this bubble. But if you go outside of this bubble, you're gonna get pelted by radiation. So that's a concern. It actually happened to the Apollo astronauts where they just they were they received this this radiation. Luckily, it seems like I don't think it gave any of them cancer. But I mean there's just and the distances in the time, it's very, very difficult, and it's a big deal
for us. So sure, you know, we are not close to there, we are not able to traverse those vast distances, but it doesn't mean it's not possible by someone. And you know, especially when it comes to space science, this is one that gets me too. We discover things in space on a regular basis that we never could have imagined were possible. One
of my favorites is rogue planets. Everybody thought, you know, planets had to be in a solar system circling a star, and then we found these, you know, random planets that are just floating out there in the middle of nowhere in space. They never thought that was possible. This whole concept of dark matter that we don't even know what the hell it is. It's just an explanation because we don't know why the universe is expanding when we thought,
given our math, it would be contracting. So, especially with space science, we find out weird stuff all the time. So why I just not only that, I think what's interesting bringing this back to the skin Walker ranch is a concept that many others have had as well. In fact,
I've had this and I think you've had him. This professor and scientists in Nebraska who's trying to build kind of a time warp essentially, and he feels that this time warp can be naturally occurring, and some of the sciences kind of feel like that might be going on, like an in Skinwalker that possibly you know, there's there's kind of the veil is thin between dimensions or something in certain places, and that's what explains kind of this paranormal phenomena that we
interact with at times. But I mean that may be possible, I mean, and it works. There are theoretical physicists who believe the math works where you know, there could be types of interactions where other dimensions are affecting our
dimension and vice versa. So and this is science. So yeah, it's it's very weird that they I've always felt it's kind of I think that the reason SETI is so hyper sensitive about UFOs more so and the possibility of aliens visiting, is that they had to fight for credibility for so long, sure, and they had to keep steer clear of what everybody was accusing them of and making fun of them. That they've just gone so far away that they
can't go back. They can't reconcile, you know, with these ideas, at least not now, whereas they've got such a large amount of credibility at this point. I don't think it would really hurt them if they entertained these
ideas. And I think even this Pentagon revelation that the Pentagon had this UFO research group, and the reaction, which has been very positive by the mainstream for the most part, not completely shows that, you know, I think the public's ready, and maybe there's a I think there's a segment of the public that's always been ready to talk seriously about the math and the science and the possibilities of potential we don't know, we don't have evidence, but potential
alien visitation. Speaking, going back to where we're talking about the distances, which which I think is fascinating and hard to conceive. But I had laid out on a show I did a few years ago, I think with doctor Jeffrey Bennett, who you and I both met South Carolina. Yeah, he is great. Now I'm hoping I'm not misquoting him, but this will give someone an idea of how far away we are from our first star, the closest star to us, which is about four I can't remember exactly light years
away, something somewhere around there. So if the Earth was the size of a basketball, I believe we and we were in and it was in say Washington, d C. On the on the East coast, and the Earth would be the size of a ball, and the ballpoint pen next to the Earth. I'm almost positive those are the two different sizes that he was talking
about. Then he said that the first star would be in l A, Los Angeles, to give you an idea of to reduce the size of the Earth all the way down to a ball and a ballpoint pen, the first star would be all the way over to Los Angeles, over three thousand miles away. Wow see, And yeah, it's a great example. I mean the distances are very far. But Jeffrey Bennett was very open minded, and he said, yeah, he's open to the possibility that maybe aliens are visiting,
and it's totally completely possible. And you know what else he talked about, which is a conversation that comes up periodically, and it came up again this week in the media, which is should we if aliens are out there?
Are they good or bad? And Bennett is along the lines of actually most astrophysicists, which is that if they're able to harness these incredible technologies that would allow them to get here and not blow themselves up, then they most likely have been able to solve you know, war and all of these interpersonal problems, and so they probably would be benevolent. So I think that's an interesting idea, and Carl Sagan felt the way, and it is the prominent
theory that's out there. I remember his up actually on the show that I did with Jeffrey, and I know you've you've had him on two at one
point. But the thing that impressed me the most was very similar to what you're saying that he said on my show, and he said that his fellows at NASA when he was a visiting astronomer there or astrophysicists there, and himself quietly agree this is his own words and as close to him as I can get that if a civilization out there can get through the bottleneck of technology without blowing themselves up, then they will indeed be traveling the stars. Yeah,
that was such a great, great line. So speaking of very crediting ourselves up. No, not blowing ourselves up. No, no, no, no, that scares me. No, actually thinking about the potential for alien life because of course, and I've got this. I don't know if you've seen this in our new tagline at open Minds is credible UFO news and information, Because that's what I think the public needs right now, is some credible
UFO news and information. It's hard to know what's credible out there, and right now now that people are are seeing the Pentagon did some UFO research. Why did they do that? Is there something credible out there? There is?
And there's even some credible stuff when it comes to weird creatures and aliens and surprisingly, you know, and I get, you know, called out for my skepticism all the time, but I do feel that there are some incredible instances out there, and one of them is the Rue Want Encounter. And we were talking earlier about what you thought was one of your best shows
recently, and you had one of those witnesses. Maybe you can explain as concisely as you can what took place and who sure this guest was you had? Yeah, So I had Selma sidk On two times. Actually I was, I believe I was. Yeah. I was the first one to actually interview her after she got involved with Randy Nickerson in doing The Ariel School, a phenomena movie. She was at the site when she was a young girl, I believe, I want to say. She said that she was eleven
years old when it happened. And the first time, the first time I did a show with her went viral basically, And so when I met her again at the MOFON Symposium down in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, we had a nice conversation and I asked her, I said, you know what,
what has have you gotten any feedback from when we did the show? And she goes, boy, have I She said, I've heard from people all over the world And I said really, and you know, so it was really interesting and she's been connected with you know, even through YouTube YouTube video I did with her, you know, she has got connected with even former classmates that couldn't find and you know, pretty amazing. So I interviewed her again the second time down you know, at the Mofon Symposium, and this
time and it's on YouTube. It's not a lot of views. I'm kind of disappointed. But anyway, she's very nice by the way, and very articulate, and she you know, actually filled in some holes from not from her story, but just from people that commented on the first show I did
with her. A com one comment I thought was very good, and he said, the fact that you didn't ask her why she didn't have, you know, any telepathy when she was standing right next to this being, she was only four feet away or so, then you know, you really missed out by not asking why she thought she may not have had any telepathy. And I thought, wow, it's interesting thought. So when I these kids like saw this craft and an entity come out, and yeah, we should
we should tell this, You're right, ye should we have? We have time here, I think we should tell basically the story of when this happened. It was back in the nineteen nineties. I can't right off the bat. I can't tell you the the date of it. I want to say
ninety five, but I sorry about that. So in South Africa, at the Ariel school that's in Zimbabwe, all these about sixty five or so school children were outside, and oddly enough, the teachers were having a teacher's conference and there was only one adult outside and she was in this shock that sold
like snacks and things like that. So she was out out of the line of sight and this craft was some people say there were two crafts, but this craft came down and they all went out, you know, curios curiously to look at it. And as far as she knows, the thing that she had in common with all her classmates is nobody ever heard of a ufo or flying sauce or anything like that in Southern Africa just wasn't on, you know, wasn't anything they knew about, and so they didn't have any idea
what it was. And it was just hovering above the ground. And this being some people say two beings. She remembers one that came out had like straight hair, it had big, huge black eyes, and it had a porcelain like skin like something. She said that she couldn't really describe. So
she was only four feet away from this. And this is one of the things she said in the second interview that was really quite moving I think is that she was eye locked with it, eye to eye with this, and she realized that she had to see how her brother and sister were there younger than her, so she was kind of always watching over them. So she said that one of the hardest things she ever did in her life was to
break the lock, the eye lock with the creature. Hmm. And so I asked her the question, I said, why do you think you didn't have any telepathy like other kids said that they got messages that we should take care of the earth, et cetera. So anyway, she said, well, I'm not one hundred percent sure that I didn't. And so then I brought up will have you ever thought of having a regression hypnotherapy? And she said, no, I don't want to do that. You know, she's
too scared to do that. Maybe someday, but not now. But I don't know. Do you want to fill in for the first time person that doesn't know about that story? What else happened? I mean, I can go into it more if you'd like, no, I think you got all the big points. And then yet the it was just a group of kids, and they all seem very credible, and years later many of them have
come out. It was in nineteen ninety four when this occurred, and many of them now have spoken with with you mentioned him before, Randy Nicholson, Randy Nickerson, and also James Fox for his video that's coming out and so and and they recall, you know, these things happening. In fact, we also have an interview of Emily Trim, one of the other witnesses, and it was a very amazing moving moment a couple of years ago at the UFO Congress when she did a talk and it was just very emotional for her
and for for everybody. And what's interesting about her is she's I've met her. She came to our office once and she had a bunch of artworks. So she has artwork that has these weird symbols in it and stuff that she feels is inspired by her encounter, which is also really interesting. And it just seems like, you know, uh, these people had long term effects to their experience that just adds to and they all come across so credible.
It's just amazing. Yeah, it really isn't for the person that's not familiar with the incident. You know, John Mack, Harvard professor and psychology, actually interviewed the children and you can see a lot of their interviews on YouTube for instance, and I'm telling you there's some of them that just give me the chills. Yeah, we are actually out of time, Oh my gosh. So yes we are. Go look at Aerial School or Zimbabwe UFO or Aerial UFO and you'll find this, or go look up Emily trim Uh and
you'll see some of this. Because Selma's name is probably going to be difficult to spell, but absolutely one of the most incredible alleged encounters with an entity that came out of one of these crafts. But we're completely out of time. So thank you Martin for spending some time and talking some UFOs with me. You are welcome. Be sure to check out so on our YouTube at
the Open Minds YouTube. I've got my UFO Live that I'm doing where I do news every Thursday at six pm live and then answer questions for people who are in the YouTube chats with me live. So that's been a lot of fun and that's been going very well. And then also we've got a video from the Devil's Tower of me and some other UFO researchers talking about Close Encounters, the movie and some other cool stuff that we'll have up there soon.
Also, there's some new videos on the Video on Demand for the International UFO Congress. In fact, you can watch Emily Trim's presentation and others on the video on Demand. You could go to Ufocongress dot com to find out more about that. Also, you can find some cool T shirts at open mindsat Tv, either some Open Minds branded stuff or at the uf Congress store. Lots of cool stuff there. So, and I guess you might not know this yet, I will be speaking at the next Alien Con in Baltimore in
November, so check that out. I'll get some more information out on that as time comes goes on. But thank you very much to Caleb Hanks for the opening and close music. Thank you to Systematics for the bumper music. Thank you again, Martin. You want to tell everybody bye bye everyone, Thank you so much. It was great. Until next time. Audio smood Chat Jos you mus