Welcome to the UFO Think Tank, Craigio with your host Alejandrol Rohan. Hi, this is Alejandro. Thank you to robo Chick for my introduction. And uh yeah, like she says, this is UFO Think Tank and I am Alejandro ROAs and I'm very happy to be here with you today because you're cool, dude. I'm telling you, I'm not kidding. You're a one cool
dude. Doet that he's listening? So cool that you are interested in people such as my guest this evening, who is a very interesting I'm excited as usual to have Kathleen Martin on. And what's so exciting is that Kathleen has done a study. She actually did this with her friend Denise Stoner, and this study is well. Kathleen Martin, first, I guess to tell you is unique because her mother or her aunt was Betty Hill of the famous Betty
and Barney Hill abduction case in the sixties. And this was the first real public story of people being abducted. And it was a very credible one because these guys were separated. You know, it was a man and his wife and they were separated who told the same story. They had similar recollections under hypnosis, which is interesting and also lends credibility, So a very interesting case.
Of course, we've had Kathleen on to talk about that case and other things before, so we won't need to get into all of those details. But what is especially exciting something that she has done recently that I want to
talk about is this study she did with Denise Soner. And essentially, Kathleen Martin for many years has been a social worker, so of course you need to be familiar with psychology and things like that, and she and your social work, you know, you're kind of figuring out you've got to follow studies in the latest in psychology to kind of figure out why people do what they
do. And so she applied her background and social work Denise as a background in that area as well, to do a study on abductees because she feels, you know, the abduction phenomenon is real. What happened to Bettian Barney Hill was real, and she wanted to find out the commonalities and that's what this study was called, the Commonality among Abduction Experiencers study. Very interesting finding. So essentially she pulled a bunch of people that were abductees. She had
some controls people who were not abductees. We'll talk about how she decided if someone was really an abductee or not, and what an abductee is, and that kind of thing we'll talk to her about because you know, of course, some of you might be thinking, I don't know if I believe that people are being abducted by aliens. Of course many of you are thinking,
I know that's happening. So you'll be able to hear at least, because I think, even if you don't believe in the phenomena, just these social aspects of how are these people that say this is happening to them similar than people who are not, and what are the tendencies. Now, she did
a different thing than like what doctor Leo Sprinkle did in the past. He actually did a similar study and he found which was one of his main goals that and I think we had someone else, actually another professor on recently and they had found that people who claim to be abductees were not more prone to fantasy than the normal general public. But yet this is a really interesting study and I love this sort of thing because this is what people need to be
doing. You know, even I won't mean names but there's a lot of researchers out there who have been collecting town data, and I think this is a great example of what you need to do with that data is actually put it together and do some studies, run some correlations to find out, you know, what's going on here, what's going on? What's going on? The la la la. Sorry, I won't sing to you any further, but this is a great interview and you're gonna love it. People, I'm
telling you, this is good stuff. So we'll talk to Kathleen in just a minute. However, of course, before we get her on the line, we have UFO news UFOs in the News with Alandro Ross, so let's check this out. Of course, this is a collection of stories from mainstream media covering the UFO topic. People are like, what are you talking about? Media don't care about UFOs, and a lot of people feel that way,
even people who are interested in this field. But that's just not the case, because I prove you wrong every week in that I have a host of UFO stories from the public from the mainstream media that I cover every week. And let's talk about some of those stories. The first being from October thirty, first Halloween scary. This is from the Sun News and it looks like it was re ran in the Herald online dot com serving Yorchester and Lancaster
counties of South Carolina. And this is about some sightings at Myrtle Beach. So I guess on September thirteenth, there were a lot of sightings of some orange lights over the ocean and people thought this was weird. They were turning on, they were turning off. There was one and there were several and it was freaking people out. So somebody posted a video on YouTube about this.
They also reported this to the UFO, the National UFO Reporting Center, Newfork in other words, ran by Peter Davenport of Seattle, Washington, and he says they don't seem to be flares because they don't act like that. So there were a lot of sightings. They asked the military, well what do you think in the military said, well, they were flares, so yeah. The Coastguard actually said, well, I think they were probably flares because we do have boats out there that are sending up flares. However,
he described some of these flares. Some of them can be I've seen up to fifteen nautical miles away and be in the air for about one hundred and twenty seconds. Some of them last less than that. But really, actually the reports don't necessarily seem at least some of the people said they felt that the lights were in the sky for much longer than that. So many of those who reported these sightings don't believe what they saw to be flares. So
very interesting. They also interviewed a man named Jim Meath who has not seen the UFO. However, he is a guy who lives in North Carolina who holds a UFO workshop, so he's into the topic, and he says, you know what, I'm not a I haven't seen anything, but I've studied enough where there's so much interesting material out there, so just people in the military talking about UFOs that I think there could be something going on here. He talks about, you know how, there's got to be life out there,
And another witness had an interesting quote. He says, I believe in God to start with. I just can't see us being created and nothing else out there in this big old universe. A lot of people feel similarly. So remember you can see these stories if you go to ufodailynews dot com and click on the UFO newsfeed because those are the stories that I tweet on a regular basis. You can also, of course go and subscribe to the UFO
Daily News Twitter feed. Speaking of one of the dudes I tweet quite a bit, this is of course lis Biegle, who writes for the Huffington Post, and uh we because we're always talking back and forth and sharing information, came across the story. Actually it was Ruben Uriarte, who is the mof on now national International director well Laison, so he works with other countries, and he got this from Mexico. That was the first time I saw it. And this is a video of a weird light that looks kind of like
a cigar shaped light diving into a volcano in Mexico. And this is a video that's on Mexican News. In fact, on YouTube and on Lee's story you can see the clip of the YouTube clip of the Mexican News story.
And he also asked a couple of people. He asked Factor Faked Ben Hansen and Moufon's video analyst Mark d' antonio what they thought about the video, and both of them had actually felt, which some other people had speculated, that it's actually a meteorite being caught on the video that is far behind the volcano. It just looks like it's going in, but it's actually falling somewhere paths the volcano, you know. So interesting, but it's an interesting video.
Of course, not everybody agrees, but nobody. Not everybody agrees on any video. But yeah, they kind of felt that it could be a meteorite behind the object. So you'll have to check out this video. And remember you can go. This one's on Huffington Post. One of the least Spiegel
stories. More UFOs, this time in El Cahoone, California, and these were there's a picture of these interesting lights in a row, and you know what, I look at it and I'm like, you know what looks like those LED strips, because it's like it's a line of bright light, like the LED strips that you put under your cabinets, you know, to shine light on your your kitchen surfaces so you can make dinner or like, you know, I veggie stuff, so I make like, you know, my
regular dinners kind of egg salad actually is a big one or mostly actually it's it's cereal, so you can have your lights to see your cereal and it turns out that this is what this was. It was a gentleman who was kind of playing around and he actually had spent three hundred dollars on balloons, heliums and lights and he floated them five thousand feet into the air. He put these lights on a fishing line and he called it a TFO because his
name was Todd, so kind of cute. But yeah, that's what he did, and that's what So if you were in El Cajone, California, and it looks like this was, well, the story they don't say exactly when this was. The story was on the first, but I'll bet this happened the night before on Halloween that he was pulling this stun. But I gotta admit, come on, it is kind of fun. That would have
been fun to do. But these it's Halloween for goodness sake. You want to do lots of fun crazy stuff and then run around the run in circles on the street, screaming with your arms in the air. You'll boi bo You know that'd be fun. That's something I'd like to do, only on Halloween. Them other mistaken identities. Perhaps I think it was last week I told you guys about this interesting video from Kentucky of this tubular type UFO.
It looked the witness described it as two fluorescent tubes floating next to each other. Very strange video. This guy was a amateur astronomer. Well somebody and it just looks like some neighbor or somebody in town said that was my toy. But some people are putting into question whether or not that's true, because I guess there are out there and you can look these up, and actually I think I saw them in the UK. Let's see what they're named.
He doesn't have the name on here. Some kind of airship it's called. But essentially, really what it is is like this long plastic bag and it is black and you can fill it with helium where you can. It's actually you fill it with air. Oh okay, I remember, because I went to the site where you can buy them. You run, you know, you open this thing up, you run, so it fills with air and you tie it up and then you put a string on it. And it
comes with a string and you just kind of let it float. And because it's black, it's solar powered. The heat from that's generated heats up the air inside of this thing, so it floats because hot air rises, it's less dense some science. So that's what this thing is. And so some people are like, okay, well it is long cylindrical tubular balloon thing that you float up. But they're black. They're like a black film that is not see through. And in the video this thing looks see through and or
completely white. Could it be the reflection? Could it be two of them side by side? Is that what made this video? I don't know. I don't know. When I posted the story saying that you know, this guy said it was this his little airship toy thing, people are like, mm, I don't think so, dude, And their argument was that you know, it didn't. It wasn't a black thing that a videotaped up in the sky. And even if it was reflecting, it was more than just
one long tube. It looked like a couple of them next to each other, and it looked like some kind of It looks strange, and the astronomer estimated it was thirty thousand feet in the air. Some wo'ld be wrong. All I can say is like I said before, and unfortunately, what we can have to come down to many times is go take a look for yourself and see what you think. Toy or not a toy, that is a
question. I thought this was kind of fun Roswell, although it's kind of weird because of course, you know, everybody does these halloween things, these spooky Halloween things, and so this was a story about a website called trip Advisor, which made a list of the top ten spookiest cities in the United States. Woo, I can't think of what the spookiest city I've been to
is. Hmmm, that's a tough one. But they say Roswell. Now, I've been to Roswell and it's not too spooky, but of course they have pictures of aliens, and their point is Roswell is spooky because that's where aliens landed, and aliens are probably there, and if you go to Roswell, they'll come and they'll chase you and and slime you and be really creepy. And so that's why it's scary, is what they say. So yeah,
Roswell made it to top ten lists of spooky places. The next story is an interesting one that you've seen around and this is more of an astrobiological type of thing, and this is alien life. This is something that's as they would say in the UK science boffins that they call them boffins. It reminds me of a Hobbit, the Boffin Hobbit family or something. But no, those are scientists, according to English people out there, I guess.
But the boffins are saying that some science boffin that alien life requires an asteroid belt like ours, so that the the asteroid belt we have in our solar system is very rare, they say, and it's probably why Earth has life, because it's been able to gently sprinkle asteroids with water and elements that are important for life onto the planet Earth, as opposed to larger objects slamming into the planet causing massive explosions and not being very constructive, not being very helpful.
But these nice little asteroids falling onto the planet here and there are seeding water, oh, in just a gentle little way, and that that creates life. I guess. Of course, you never know with this kind of stuff, but yeah, I kind of made a story around that maybe you need an asteroid boilt belt in order to have life in your solar system. So any of you out there in other solar systems who are like, you
know, why we have an abundance of life in our solar system. It could be that you don't have an asteroid belt, so you'll want to get one of those and everything will be good. After that. UFO news from India and we don't hear a lot about this. Of course, we've had others on We've talked about official kind of UFO investigations in other countries, but who knew India. They're these soldiers, the police and guys have been investigating
UFOs so on the Indo Tibetan border in a town called Ladoc. I'm sure I'm saying that wrong, but that's what I think it is, how you
say it, Ladoc region. Since August to October, they've been seeing UFOs a lot in this area and some of the police have actually taken pictures of these UFOs and in fact, according to India Today, this article is actually in the Daily Bascar, but they say India Today has also covered the story that the army has photographed the pictures and they say that these pictures don't appear to be drones or low earth orbiting satellites. So they then took these pictures
to some astronomers, in particular the Indian Astronomical Observatory at Hanlei. And these guys looked at them, you know, and what astronomers usually say, Oh, you're looking at venus. No, not these guys. These guys said, well, I don't think that is a celestial object. In other words, that's not a meteorite or a planet or a star, so we don't know what that is. Then they took it to a few other There are some intelligence officers who said, well, I think this is China messing with
us. They're thinking that these are maybe some kind of Chinese device. They haven said it could be a crude psychological operation on China's part, or sophisticated probes attempting to ascertain India's defenses in the Ladak. But yeah, some UFOs being seen, and I guess this is a very kind of treacherous and sparsely populated area where there aren't a lot of people, but that some strangeness in
UFOs are reported in this area quite often. How they even the army even took a mobile ground radar to the mountaintop near so that the next time they saw a craft try to catch it on radar. Or one of these objects. And when they did see the objects, they could see them, but they did not catch them on radar. So is this a new hot spot? What's going down here in the Indo Tibetan border? Very interesting, I think, very interesting. Speaking of satellites, one of the biggest satellites in
the sky are the biggest objects in the sky is a space station. You may have seen the space station coasting over your area of the planet. And because this is an international we have international listeners. How cool is that on the show? And so your part of the planet is very different from mine, But I hope you're enjoying your part of the planet as much as I
enjoy my part of the planet. And I particularly enjoy when the Space Shuttle flies over and I've seen it a couple times and it's just so cool because it's so bright and big and cruising over and just to think, oh, that's space station I met. You know, there's people up there and they're kind of hanging out and you know, who, I think about, what are they doing in Are they grooving out to some p funk up there on
the space station? And you know, I don't know what you think about, but it's fun to see the space station, and if you haven't seen it, then this is tragic and you are not fulfilling your duty as a human being because you're supposed to be just captivated in awe by our incredible technology. That's what I say. But anyway, what NASA has done is created this new site where you can get an email or a text when the space station is going to be near your area. So a couple hours before it
comes, you'll get a text. You know, Hi, this is a space station. I'll be in your neighborhood in two hours. Be sure to look for me TA top for now TTFN. You know that's what you do and you text the acronyms and stuff. Actually I don't know if that's what it'll say. I did sign up for the text, but I haven't gotten a text from the space station yet because it hasn't been around my neighborhood yet.
But I am so excited for when I get that text, because I'm going to run outside and look, and then I'm going to text back the space station and say OMG, I see you, and that'll be a lot of fun. So I would recommend yeah again, you can go to ufodailynews dot com and go to the newsfeed and look for this story. Get email texts when space station is near. Discovery News is the name of the story, or you could probably go to NASA google this thing and find it.
But it's a lot of fun. I'm excited to hear from the space station. Ooh, this next story made some people mad. Ooo, my friends got mad when they read this one. Why because it says UFO enthusiasts admit the truth may not be out there at or all. And this is written by the Telegraph. This is a shifty little UK newspaper. While they're not little, they're big, I'll tell you what. But yeah, they have
been quite contentious when it comes to the UFO phenomena. And essentially it is kind of silly because so they talk to this group that investigates UFOs in England called ASAP, and these guys the Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomenon and they're like, you know what, we've been looking for UFOs for a decade. We're not getting many reports, and even the reports we get don't
really give us anything scientific to investigate. So I think we're going to have a conference we're going to talk about this, but I think we're closing shop and we're going to tell our other UFO buddies. Let's kind of call this a day and then wrap this whole thing up because there's nothing going on. Fine, they have their opinions, and the writer kind of does go on to say, oh, yeah, there hasn't been anything going on for a
long time, la la low, you got to shut it down. They did have Nick Bope at the end say hey, wait a minute, Actually there is a lot of quality information out there that's being overlooked. So that's kind of cool and essentially saying, don't you know, throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because there's some bad stuff doesn't mean it's all bad data, which of course many people fill. And this of course got my buddies all upset and they're emailing, well, these guys are a bunch of
jerks, man. So but the point is that that isn't true that in fact, at least when it comes to if you ask Peter Davenport of Newfork, who I asked before, I know he's gotten more UFO sightings in the recent past, so has moved on, you know, gotten a lot of UFO sightings. It's you know, hundreds a month, so certainly not true that there is a decrease in the sightings. And this Telegraph reporter named Jasper Coping could have gone to some of the big reporting centers and ask them if
that was indeed the case, but he decided not to. He didn't do his journalistic duty, which many of these reporters do not do when they're covering the stomach Bad Jasper, but you know, hopefully he'll do that next time. And his title was just a little overflowing UFO enthusiasts admit the truce may not be out there. That's kind of overdoing it, buddy, but I can't. You know, Hey, these guys have their opinion. They're closing
shop. I think that's interesting news because they don't feel they found anything. That's their right. Finally, this kind of falls in line with the last story, is that super fast space travel would kill you in minutes shorting, according to this side Jamie Clemleife so more boffins. This was on Getzmodo actually saying that you know, traveling that fast is not good for your health.
If you do so, you will die And okay, but of course he is saying that, you know, in order to travel really fast, we'd have to go near the speed of light, because we can't go the speed a light. If we did, we'd go back in time, time swarps and all this stuff. But of course some people argue that perhaps there is a technology that is much different that will allow us to travel great distances in short amount of times and we won't die, and that would be preferable than
the type that kills you. I think. So there's a UFO news for the week. But now let's get Kathleen on the phone because she has a lot of interesting things to say. Hello, Kathleen, Hello, Alejandro. It's nice to be back with you. So we were meant talking a little bit before. But it sounds like the hurricane luckily didn't hit you too hard. So you didn't you're in Florida. Yeah, so you were able to stay dried. Yeah, bad Gloria had just a little bit of wind.
There were a few white caps on my little lake, but it wasn't bad at all. Yeah, I think. Goodness, Because of course others have not had it so well, No, they certainly have not. My friends in the Northeast have been hard hit by this m And you do a lot of traveling, right, Were you planning on any trips to the Northeast? And I just actually returned home from the Northeast. I do do a lot of traveling. I spent three months up there over the summer and I'm back
home. In fact, we did have to cancel a trip that I was going to to be going on this weekend till the Northeast come to think of it, but it's having to be postponed for a couple of weeks, all right. So I'm really excited. And there's a lot to this, so I'm sure we're going to have a lot to talk about. Is this abduction study you did. And for anybody who doesn't remember you, know you your aunt was Betty Hill. And of course, so you've had this big part
of your life abductions and everything. With the popularity of her story and a lot of people, I guess don't know that even though she had that event with Barney Hill, that the kind of strangeness continued throughout her life. Is that correct? That is correct. There were many UFO sidings, close encounters, and I think from reading her files, there were continuing abductions as well, but she never wanted to vlieve that that was true. So now you've
got this study and we can talk about the commonalities. And I don't know that there's another study that has been done like this, because of course there's a lot of anecdotal information you can talk to which I've had on you know, like a lot of the therapists who who work with abductees, and there's some kind of commonalities you can gather, but of course there's nothing as important as an actual study. The only other one I think can think of is
doctor Leo Sprinkle. He had done one quite some time ago. So Eddy Bullard has done some as well, but I'm not aware of anyone who has specifically done what Denise and I did on this study. So how did you hook up? What Denise will start from the beginning, I guess, And what gave you the idea? How did this all begin? When I moved to Florida three years ago, I decided to become actively involved in moufon Florida,
and Denise was a state Section director and that Florida's chief investigator. Now she was holding meetings, and so I just decided to go to one of her meetings and I replied to an invitation, and that's when I met her for the first time, and I continued to go to her meetings. She has a study group for abduction experiences as well, and I've been there helping her out at all of those meetings. So we just formed a friendship because
of our mutual interests. She's really very bright, very knowledgeable about this field, and I have a great deal of respect for her work. She is now Florida's Assistant director of Abduction Studies, and she has a background, I guess in psychology, which I'm sure helped you with planning how to put this study together. Yes, she had worked for the government, she had taken some courses in psychology. She does not have a degree in psychology. I'm
actually the one with the background in sociology and psychology. I took my degree in social work to make myself employable, but my real interest was in social research and psychology. Okay, So then you went about what was I guess the plan for your study. Were you looking for anything in particular or just kind of trying to look at general overall experiences that these people were having to
look for commonalities. Well, there were certain certain things that stood out in our minds, and so we wanted to determine the percentage of experiencers who have had those specific things occur in their lives. We also wanted to put in some questions that we thought probably wouldn't apply to experiencers, just as a filler. And also, we of course had a control group, so we had
questions for the control group as well. When it comes to the questions that you thought would not pertain to their experiences, is there a specific purpose to adding those type of questions, Yes, there was. We just wanted to make sure that people everyone would answer honestly and not think that if they responded with a positive or in the affirmative to each question, it would mean that
they were an abduction experiencer. So we're sort of trying to weed people out here as well, and we had some really amazing results, because boy, it appears that everyone who took part in this study was answering very honestly. Now you looked for it looks like fifty full questionnaires to be filled out by experiencers to find those experiencers. Did you look for people who kind of had who felt themselves to be experiencers or did you look for a therapists to kind
of guide you? How did I did books for therapists. What we did is I was looking for self identified abduction experiencers, but also many experiencers who had had their case investigated and who met the criteria for having had an abduction took part in the study. So I was really delighted in that, and we started out. I wrote an article for the Muffon Journal attempting to solicit
experiencers. I do radio shows on a fairly regular basis, and so I always mentioned that on the radio show and asked people to go to my website to fill out the questionnaire, and also we posted it. Denise did some and I did some as well on various UFO and abduction related websites and blogs.
So we tried to get as many people as we could. And then I traveled to speak quite frequently, so I always had questionnaires on my tape and asked anyone who might be interested in taking one and filling it out. Now, and I remember last time you were on, we had talked about that too and sent people to fill out the questionnaires. So it sounds like this was a lot of work, then getting the questionnaires, but also qualifying these people. Oh. Absolutely, it was a lot of work. It
took a year. This was a year long project, but I think that it was well worth the efforts. Something else that we did is we guaranteed anonymity for everyone, So if anyone sent me a form with identifying information, I immediately blacked it out as soon as I printed forms. Before I printed the forms that I received via email, I removed identifying information because I didn't want to take a chance that anyone's identity would ever be revealed. Right.
And then another thing I don't think, I'm not sure, I don't think we mentioned this yet, is that you did have a control group too. You had twenty five non abduction experiencers that you had fill out your questionnaire. Yes, absolutely, and I did that because I wanted to make sure that the abduction commonalities among abduction experiencers were not common in the general population. So
I had to have the control group for that reason, I guess. Moving on to the demographics, I'm kind of just going through your sety part by part. It says you found twice as many women as men that completed the questionnaire. What did that tell you, Well, that was very interesting. Sixty four percent of the people who completed the questionnaire were women, and so then I had to evaluate this, were there more women abduction experiencers? And
general knowledge is that yes, there are. I also knew that men statistically less likely to fill out questionnaires than women, so I had to evaluate whether or not that might come into play here. But fortunately I had the control group, and sixty four percent of the men who complete, who were non abduction experiencers, completed the questionnaire, so there was a just the opposite as with experiencers. Oh that's kind of strange. Huh, yes, it was.
It was really interesting that it ended up being that way. Yeah, because one thing when you were talking about that, I was thinking of maybe these women, because you were women, had a better rapport and that's why they were more likely to fill out the questionnaire. However, using the control that doesn't necessarily play out. No, it did not. There were far more men than women, So you think that this may just be another indicator
that women experienced abductions more than men. It seems it looks that way. That's pretty interesting. So and then you went on to look at trends among age groups and what did you find there? Among age groups? I found that the fifty to sixty year old group, those people who were born in the nineteen fifties, responded at a much higher rate than any other group. They are forty four percent on this survey, and it was only twenty percent
control group. So that was very interesting as well. And what Denisan I have found recently is that many many of the people who are coming forward and contacting us are in that age range. Now, another interesting thing is that many of these people feel that they were taken as children. So that would mean that they were taken probably in the mid to late nineteen fifties going into
the nineteen sixties. And so we know that the first publicized UFO abduction was my aunt and uncle's case in nineteen sixty one, and then we had the Antonio Vfboa's case from Brazil, and I believe that was nineteen fifty seven, so sort of when some adults were being taken in those years, it seems that a lot of children were being taken as well. See, and that
to me makes a lot of sense. And that's really interesting because I've always felt as I got involved with investigating what in like the late nineties, you know, when I joined Muffon and I used to talk to abductees or and I was skeptical of the whole thing at first. I still don't know what to make of it. But I was able to talk with a lot of people that had some really interesting cases. But it seemed to die down. And looking at the research, it does seem like there was a period.
There was a peak starting, like you said, in the fifties and sixties and kind of ended in the early two thousands. It kind of seems that do you feel that way? Did your study maybe demonstrate that? Absolutely? And these people in their fifties and sixties and even some going from their sixties to seventies are reporting ongoing abduction experiences, but far, far fewer people are contacting us to the young people to say that they are currently being visited.
It's really interesting, I think too. I think that's really important. That's why these studies are really important, because looking at the numbers, you can possibly then at least start to paint a picture of that perhaps if this was some sort of program that it began in the fifties and kind of was at its peak then, and it's kind of then deteriorated that this was You got a picture that maybe this whatever program happened, had a lifespan that is ending.
It seems that perhaps it is winding down. And that's really I think that's really interesting. I'm not I can't guarantee it, but it's certainly the statistics make it appear that way. Well, hopefully that'll give some people some peace of mind mm hmm, because I know, like a lot of people I talked to my sister for instance, to get it that very afraid of just thinking about things like this. Yeah, a lot. It frightens a
lot of people. So then when you looked at areas of where people were from rural, small town, suburban, you looked at that sort of thing parts of the country, did you find any trend that way? Not really there were. It was thirty percent from a rural area, but twenty six percent from small towns, twenty six from suburban areas, in eighteen percent from
urban areas. So it was really fairly evenly distributed, which kind of makes sense because at least you know from the researchers, because of course that's where you and I get to see each other at these conferences. And from listening to the different lectures and speaking with them interviewing them, there doesn't seem to be I've never heard anybody talk about a trend as far as a geographic trend as to where things like this happen. It seems to be spread pretty evenly
spread throughout the country. Yes, it does seem to be that way. And it was interesting initially. You know, we asked what time zone people were lived in, and we had a five greater percentage from the Eastern time zone sixty six percent, and so we were wondering, Jeeves, you know, is there a base under the Atlantic Ocean? Why such a high number. But then we found out that that wasn't statistically significant because in the control
group, eighty percent were from the Eastern United States. So, you know, it just appears to be that people in the East heard the radio shows. Probably, yeah, that we interviewed on We do more in the Eastern United States, I think, probably because it's pretty late out in California when they when they do their radio interviews here, you know, so we tend to go for the ones in the within our time zones. See, that's interesting, and thank goodness for your control group or else you might have been
steered in the wrong direction. Absolutely, that was so important. So that is really interesting. And you know what I find fascinating is especially because most of the years I've spent at least when I was working with abductees and research those kind of cases, was in Denver, and it was in urban environments,
and that's what I find fascinating. Of course, there were some cases in rural areas, but you know, these highly populated urban environments where these people, you know, report these strange things happening in the middle of a busy neighborhood. Not like Betty Hill, Betty and Barney, who were they were out kind of in the middle of the words I mean, but people like, you know, in a big, busy neighborhood in an urban area, you know, being taken in the middle of the night, or and
seeing craft. And that just fascinates me because I find at least a couple of these cases to be pretty strong. Absolutely, I do find it fascinating as well and pretty nervy of these ages too, to go into a very large metropolitan area to take people. You know, how did they disguise themselves. We know that they were caught when they went to New York City to take Linda Courtillu. So mm hmm, maybe you could talk about that case for a minute, because that was a woman who was I believe seen being
taken from a skyscraper. Is that what was Yes? Absolutely, And there were several witnesses to her being taken from the skyscraper that she lived in, and people on the bridge, their cars, the motors in their cars died. And do you know what they thought. They thought that they were watching a movie being made at night. They had no idea that it was a real abduction in process. And that's exactly what was happened, and Linda was being taken. Now, did you run across any other cases in urban areas
where there were other witnesses to people being taken? Hm? Boy, not that I can remember off the top of my head. Yeah, I have not. I can't recall anything other than the Linda Cortill case that way either. That's something that I would really have to study the questionnaires for to find out if the person who is living in an urban area was taken in front of a witness And that's one of the questions I asked. But I didn't
look for correlating information between the two. It might be interesting to take a look. Now, I guess I'd be asking you to speculate here, But how do you think that happened? How do you think you know people would be able to be taken from I'm sure this isn't the only Manhattan abduction that's been reported, people being taken from urban areas or large suburban areas without being
seen. Well, you know, the craft has to have the capability of becoming invisible, and we know that the ets seem to have that capability too. So many people report that there are light orbs or balls maybe baseball size balls of light in their homes or in their apartments, and they are almost like a bubble popping. They very rapidly expand into ET. So there's something going on with that technology that almost seems paranormal to us, in the sense
of being a ghost or something like that. It seems that they're able, well, they've harnessed that kind of technology, that knowledge, so that they're capable of doing this. Just the way they can cause the vibration vibrational rate of the human body and the solid surface to vibrate at the same frequency, so that matter can pass through matter. So they're you know, probably hundreds or thousands of years more advanced than us in her in their technological and scientific
capabilities. And it's interesting you talk about the orb thing because I've even heard at least a theory by one very popular ghost hunter. He's on some of the TV shows where and he doesn't like to talk about UFOs and ets much because he's a ghost guy, but he says he feels that some of the orbs they see are when they see balls of light. That some of these things he thinks are not just ghosts flying around, but he feels possibly extraterrestrials
are able to turn into the ball of light and travel around. Yes, absolutely, that is the reports that I have heard or are very consistent with that. Yeah, it is et inside this ball of light. Wow, that's interesting. So I guess moving on to another really interesting Well, your whole study is pretty interesting. But conscious recall and this is kind of contrary to the whole sleep paralysis idea, and it's something that those who study sleep
paralysis kind of don't address. And you were able to show here, which is a lot of people that they consciously recall the events that take place, don't I skipped something, but we'll come back to it absolutely. Eighty eight percent stated that their abduction memories were consciously recalled, and I knew from Bud Hopkins, John Max, and David Jacob statistics that it was in the thirty to forty percent range. Eighty eight percent was really a startling figure and highly
statistically significant. Sixty six percent said that they consciously recalled an unconventional craft at less than one thousand feet to them prior to the abduction, and fifty six percent said that they consciously recalled the observation of non human entities immediately prior to their abduction, and seventy six percent said that they were not alone when they were taking and sixty two percent of those said that the witness they had witnesses
who also recalled this experience. So that really kind of blew my mind in a sense because the percentage is far higher than we're led to believe, right, And I think the problem is is that just people don't do the kind of important work like you've done here to find out what these numbers actually are. And so you know, again that's why this is so great, But yeah, were those numbers surprising to you. Absolutely, absolutely, there were
much higher than I had anticipated. It's interesting though, too, is I was going to say that it does match. However, Betty and bar He's experienced a bit too, because at least part of their experience they remembered, Oh, they remembered everything except for the abduction on the craft itself. A lot of people don't realize that it's been played a little bit differently, but I have evidence that they remembered everything except for being on that craft. So
this kind of fits along with their experience. A lot of this does really Absolutely. Yeah, so that's really fascinating. And even I guess if you think of another what it came to mind when you said the sixty six percent that consciously recalled observing the craft prior, It made me think of Travis Walton, because that's what happened in his case. He consciously remembered, you know, of course, there were many witnesses to the craft at first, and
he even remembers when he was dropped off the craft flying off. Yes, absolutely, the Casey County, Kentucky case was the same. The Alligash case was the same. So many historical cases have had close encounters prior to the abduction. Yeah, the Allagash one is a great one. Luckily those guys were at a move from or No, it was a UFO congress several years
ago, five six years ago. I think that I got to be at and meet them, and you know, they kind of remind me of Travis Walton in a way, and that they're just these real, down to earth, regular guys and their story doesn't change over the years. Just fascinating.
They have no idea what to make of it. But here again, like you said, I know them, very nice guys and it started with a sighting, yes, fishing, and you know, here you are, you're in an external environment, you're out camping or fishing or driving and you're picked
up. Now. One difference actually with the Aligash case from these other famous cases we're talking about, and actually I was going to ask you about in this one statistic you had here was that seventy six indicated percent indicated they were not alone when they were taken. However, at least well not the case in Barney Hill, but in the case of Travis Walton, and I know in the case of a lot of others, typically one person is taken as
opposed to multiples, Is that correct? Not necessarily? Not necessarily, you know, I'm thinking of the Casey County, Kentucky case. For example, Mona Stafford, Elaine Thomas, and Louise Smith were taken three of them. Also, an investigation that Walter Webb did on an abduction in Vermont, a counter at buff Ledge, there were two taken, Charlie Hickson and Calvin Parker two. So in some cases two are taken and in other cases it's just
one. And it seems to follow genetic lines as well. So maybe initially there might have been say maybe three taken, but for some reason only one or two continued to be revisited. And if they had children, then the children were taken as well. Gotcha because in the Alley Gosh, it was multiples with Betty and Barney Hill, it was both of them. So if you're so, it may make people hesitant of maybe going on a track camping trip with an abductee because they may pick you up as well to check you
out. Huh. They might be for the thrill of their lives great, although I know some instances where people go out on camping trips with subductees on purpose. Yeah, we try to experience something so some there are a lot of people who have told me they would love to be taken. I really can't understand why, but I guess they're hoping for a very positive experience.
Well, what you had just said kind of seguays too. Maybe I kind of skipped this section, but it's maybe better that I did, because we can come back to a couple of the questions that you had found some interesting stuff. Also, is that pretty much the majority of the answers, as far as the people were saying as to how many times they had been taken, most felt ten or more. Yes, absolutely, they felt that they had been taken for the first time as children. Some of them were outside
playing. I get report after reports of a group of children who are out in a park, out the woods, out playing in a field, and they are taken as children, and then they are taken time and time again throughout their lifetime. Most people indicate to me that they're taken at least once a year. Wow. And like you said, because I think that was something startling that I had found, because I was skeptical of the whole production
thing. Like I said, when I started to investigate, then I had people come to me who said that they had felt they had these experiences. So I checked out those cases, many of whom really seemed to be genuine, and I found that in every single one of these cases, like you had said, you know, it was multiple times, it was throughout their life, kind of like they were tagged, and like you had said, you know, typically well almost, I think every time with any case that
I thought was seemed credible, a parent was taken and a child. Yes, yes, they're following genetic lines, and they also seemed to be conducting genetic experiments on some of those parents, reproductive experiments, and perhaps the fetus that they're carrying has been altered in some way. Many experiencers have very gifted children that might be surprising to you too, And that wasn't on this survey, but it will be on another one. I think. Okay, yeah,
that's very interesting. I mean when you hear from some people what kids say about some of this stuff, Like I remember one story that really and I've just heard this a lot, but and you've probably heard similar stories, but one that really sticks with me because the friend of mine was just so shocked by it, is that a coworker, and when you know, I
usually don't share my side life here with coworkers. But when she did find out about it, and we talked a lot about it, she went home and she told her kids, and one of her young sons said, oh, yeah, mom, the aliens are coming here because they put us here and we're an experiment, and they come back and they check on us once in a while. M hm. And he was like, I think seven years old. And she asked him where he got that information from. No,
she was just so shocked. She she had never really asked that, and I am, but that was something that really stuck with her that she was just shocked to hear this, because of course, this is her kid who's usually just jumping on the couch and being goofy and the watching cartoons and just very matter of factly told her this is what's going on. Mom. Mm, well, she'll have to ask him where he received that information from, right. I think she was just a little too afraid to talk about
that. But I heard others to hear that he heard it in school. Yeah, but it is surprising. I've heard other stories, and I'm sure you have of these kids just articulating these these concepts regarding this kind of stuff with really advanced thinking compared to you know, their age. Yes, absolutely, they seem to possess knowledge that they have not been taught. They have
psychic abilities, they're intellectually gifted many times, so it's very interesting. Yeah, things that the ets, at least the Graves and the Nordics and the insectoids really have no intention of harming us. Certainly they've been taking humans for their experiments, which and that is a violation of medical ethics, but they somehow feel that they have the right to do that and might even feel that
they have created many of those that they that they do. Think that's interesting, and that gets into the next section because at least it was my experience. And then I used to work more with doctor Leo Sprinkle because he was nearby, and I thought it was important because he was always focused on helping people through the emotional aspect of what they were experiencing so they can you know,
alleviate the negative emotion and move on with their lives. But yeah, I certainly there were a lot of people who were No one was completely negative towards what happened. There was one gentleman who was extremely fearful, but he would tell me, I don't feel bad because I get this sense that they're doing their job and that's they're just doing their job and it's what they're supposed to do, and they don't hate me. And the only thing that I
he didn't like was the how scary it was. It can be very frightening when you find yourself on a craft on a table and you're helpless. It's extremely frightening if you're in your home and perhaps you're lying in bed and you realize as a presence in the room and suddenly you're paralyzed and you're taken very very rapidly to a craft. So certain things can be very frightening. And
I think, but they're being kind by erasing our memories. And also they tend to always have one escort who I call it an escort, a being that accompanies a particular person time and time again and comforts that person. It's sort of a one on one that an experiencer has with an et M hmm, right. And you know, getting into that emotional part, because you did ask questions around the emotion that a lot of people did say they were fearful, but almost as many said they were very curious. Yes, yes,
that's true. And what happened I think is that they were fearful for years and then they finally overcame that fear. And it's interesting that many of those who have overcome the fear did so through hypnotic regressions, so they had
regressive hypnosis over and over again. I'm not talking about just one hit and run kind of session that might leave you more traumatized than you were before the session, but several sessions and they come to realize generally that the not being harmed, that these individuals are giving them message that cause them to feel that
they really and truly care about them. And so I think that it's that kind of message that causes the fear to subside and for people to be able to go on with their lives and to develop a curiosity about what is happening to them now. Some researchers build that this feeling of of love and comfort
is disingenuine and that it's just a trick to calm the human down. Yes, many researchers believe that, and many abduction experiencers do as well, but there are others who who feel that the ets are genuine and who feel well a part of that, they are a part of them. And would you say that's the majority? You know? That wasn't. It wasn't something that I could analyze statistically, so I really don't know. It's more anecdotal, okay, and an interesting one actually. Also, how do you feel after
the experience? Mostly either angry or just tired and exhausted, yes, yes, and generally a combination of the two. Because people's lives are disrupted by this. You know, if you have a job and you have to get up and go to work, and you know it's six or seven o'clock in the morning and you've been abducted and you've spent your your night on a craft and you haven't gotten enough sleep, or if you are so fearful that you're not able to sleep, it really has a huge impact upon your health and
well being, and it can make you very angry. Now, on the other part of the emotional questions that you asked, this was really interesting. I thought you asked about kind of how their moods are overall throughout their lives, and it looks like fairly consistent with the control for the most part except for sad. Yes, more people reported. More abductees reported being sad. Yes, more abductees did report being sad, but more of the control group
reported frequent mood swings, so that was interesting. The abduction experiences moods were fairly stable, but a percentage of the abduction experiencers said that they felt sad. And that's really too bad. You know, maybe related to this experience, but sometimes they reported that they had a history of childhood abuse, and those who had the child's foot abuse tended to feel sadness plus have more mood swings than the others, and this persisted throughout their lifetime. So you know,
it's very unfortunate and tragic in a sense. But a small percentage of the group did have those characteristics. So then you asked about sleep patterns, Yes, and you found people did have problems falling asleep and staying asleep. Was it more so the abdectees than the control Yes, well, actually I did that question was not on the control group. Oh, okay, on
that questionnaire. It was just an oversight on my part. I'm angry with myself over that, and I'm going to have to test that in another study that I do. I guess initially it didn't jump out at me as being statistically significant, but it ended up being very significant. Seventy four percent of the abduction experiencer group had difficulty falling asleep, and seventy one percent stated that they had difficulty staying asleep. And you know, then you have to ask
why is this. Is it because of the fear or do they have a sleep disorder. It's particularly interesting if somebody has difficulty staying asleep, because that could be a sign of depression, if you're waking up in the middle of the night or very early and not able to get back to sleep. But so many people simply wrote to me, well, when those ET's come and take me, they're returning me very early in the morning or in the middle of the night, and I can't get back to sleep. I'm so upset.
And many people stated that they weren't able to sleep because they feared an abduction experience, but others stated that it was unrelated to their emotional state too, So it's kind of a mixed bag. And what I'm telling you here anecdotal mm hm, well, and I guess on this is since we're in the emotional part. You know, even recently I was speaking with Elaine Douglas and in PTSD, a lot of times people don't relate the symptoms to the
trauma. I guess whereas they're they're showing symptoms where they're experiencing these things and they don't know why and they don't realize it's related to a certain trauma. Do you think there's some of that happening, well, that would be a
symptom of post traumatic stress disorder. Yes, it would be. The one interesting finding I had, but the percentage was so low is that it was only three out of fifty reported that they do not have fear of abduction any law younger, and they were also able to sleep through the night without a problem. So I suppose if you can overcome your fear, you're more likely to be able to sleep as long as you're not being taken on that particular
night. So getting into physiological responses, some interesting things here, especially with starting off with a implant in that you asked if people felt that they had an implant, and half felt that they did. Is that am I reading that correct? Yes? Yes, I believe it was fifty two percent believed that they did have an implant, and then and just to follow up, just because I think this is related and I kind of want to talk about
these two overall in general. The other interesting one because this is something I find fascinating about some of the cases I looked that seemed credible. You asked if they had awoken with unexplained marks on their body, and at the abductee group said yes at something like eighty three percent, whereas, of course the controls, most of them said no, they hadn't had that experience. Yes,
absolutely, so that was highly significant. The abduction experiencers have marks from patterned black and blue marks on their bodies to what appears to be finger marks. Now, I've received photographs from abduction experiencers and reports as well of three pressure marks where they've been returned, and I have photographs, which is really
very important to me. They've been returned with three long finger marks on each calf of their leg or on their upper arms, and in every case it has been a woman who has reported this to me, So I found that very very interesting. Of course, there are also puncture wounds reports from men, primarily of puncture wounds into the chest area, perhaps into the area of the finest gland. Of course, bloody noses are reported, scoop marks.
We've heard about scoop marks for probably thirty or forty years now, and the sunburn kind of rash on the body as well. So abduction experiencers received these kinds of marks and can't explain them, cannot remember anything from the previous day that might have caused this kind of thing. They're recalling at least part of an abduction experience, and when they wake up or when they're returned and they're wide awake, they find these marks on their bodies. A lot of them
look for marks immediately after they're returned, and I find this area. It's interesting because I think that this is some of the most important area areas of this experience, because this is physical evidence that absolutely and there's the opportunity too if someone can do this to possibly get some scientific evidence of something unusual going
on here. Yes, I am collecting a catalog of photographs, so if anyone who is listening photographs of this evidence, I would certainly appreciate it if you would send it a copy of it to me, and something else that I'm asking every abduction experiencer who's listening is to please keep a diary or a journal and write down your experiences as soon as you're returned. Check out your
body, see if you have any of these marks. If you do, photograph them and keep them with your journal, that's very important for the collection of evidence. Now, have you ever ran into a case where, and I think you'll ask them questions along these lines, where a person who had these physiological effects went to a doctor who looked at them and confirmed or was
unable to explain them. Yes, there are individuals who I have a medical report from one individual right now, and it's actually going to be in my upcoming book that will be released next May. But so I'm not going to go into great detail here, but there has been physiological evidence discovered by physicians.
Also in this report that I wrote, I talked about individuals who have their physician has found scar tissue in their nasal cavity that couldn't be explained, and one wrote that there was actually a metallic object in the nasal cavity. Wow. Great. See that's because I think that's what's really important, is collecting that sort of evidence so you can demonstrate that, yes, doctors have
looked at these things and said that these were unexplainable. Yes, And that's what kind of you know me with the implant area, because I think we're at a bit of an impasse where there's there needs to be more work on these possible implants that have been removed, because if they are real, of course, then there are there's research that can be done to show that they are something strange, and so hopefully that happens more in the future, because
this is where the real paydirt is. I mean, this is strong evidence that it's physical, beyond anecdotal, which it's so difficult to find. M Yeah, I've always felt, you know, even though abductions of course are more fringe and harder to swallow for people, they allow for the possibility of
physical evidence more so than a sighting. Yes, they do the physiological evidence on the body, absolutely so. And I guess moving on from some of the physiological stuff, although there was something really interesting here and I was wondering actually how the questions even got on there, But you found that the abductees, as opposed to the control by a large amount, had a craving for
salt. Yes, And that one's pretty amazing to me that I didn't come up with that question that Denise asked me to put it on the questionnaire, and so, you know, we did. And I hadn't anticipated that we would have a high percentage of individuals who reported that, but we absolutely did. Yeah, that's a very strange one, huh. Yes, so, and then some of the other things, like this was interesting, higher sensitivity the light. Yes, that was another one we had asked for questions actually
about sensitivity, and the sensitivity to light was the statistically significant one. The other ones were more acute hearing that was only twenty eight percent, more allergies thirty six percent, more fluctuation in mood thirty four percent. But it was
sensitivity to light that really drew the greatest response. And then unfortunately, I mean, a couple of other unfortunate side effects seemed to be They also reported much more than the controls, more migraine headaches and for women, more genealogical or problemological chronecological genealogic hope that too. Yes, you know, so that was really quite significant, and thirty percent stated that they had migraine headaches.
That's far far higher than the national average. Also, chronic fatigue and immune dysfunction syndrome. Thirty eight percent of the participants in the study have a formal medical diagnosis of chronic fatigue and immune dysfunction syndrome. Wow, not a psychological disorder. This is physiological. It's debilitating, and it strikes less than one percent of the general population. It's very high among abduction experiencers. And I
wish that the medical community would look into these factors. Yeah, that's very troublesome. I mean, not all of these areas are. It's unfortunate that they seem to have these continued health issues. Yes, absolutely, Now do these they over time? Do these kind of subside or do they continue? They continue? Oh no, that's instant, and you have chronics fatigue and immune dysfunction syndrome at waxes and wanes, so it can go on for twenty
thirty forty years. Now. Sometimes if people learn how to modify their lifestyle so that they get a lot of rest, they don't over exert themselves, they won't have these flu like symptoms. But any time that they will really overdo, the symptoms can reappear. Fevers, headaches, cognitive difficulties, memory problems, ambulace difficulty. It can be a disabling disease. People are confined to wheelchairs for periods of time. Who have people become totally disabled with this
hug, Well, there's another reason I don't want to be abducted. Yes, that's very sad. It is so. And then you get into asking questions about psychic phenomena and UH or paranormal and things like this. And I guess one of the questions you ask, and you know, a lot of the abductees said that they have witnessed or experienced paranormal activity in their home. What did you define as paranormal activity? Guys, these guys seeing ghosts or
bigfoots or what's going on? Well, you know, I didn't want to give any leading questions, okay, so I only stated normal activity and just to find out what kind of responses I would receive to that, And I did that on purpose. So I'm thinking of PSI phenomena, and people who were in the abduction groups talked about, of course the light orbs that I mentioned earlier, also things simply lifting off shelves and flying at them in their
household. And usually this occurs immediately the day or two days after the abduction experience itself really very strange. Also, doors opening and closing on their own, lights, turning off and on on their own computers. Malfunctioning immediately after an abduction watch is malfunctioning. Some abduction experiences simply cannot wear a watch. Another something else that was mentioned was a toilet flushing on its own, So
it's that sort of thing. And eighty eight percent of the abduction experiencers reported these events going on in their homes. Now I compared that to the other group, to the non abduction experiencer group, and they reported more ghost like activity. Now I was really surprised that I had a pretty high percentage I thought coming from that group, because initially it was very very small. And
then I realized I had done a radio show. It was on a paranormal radio program that did a lot of shows on ghost like activity in people's houses, and I had a huge response after that show. So I think that it skewed my data. But so I took a look at the things that they were reporting, and they were reporting more ghost like activity, shadow people, spirits, cloudness, strange sounds, strange odors, cold spots in their
homes. And I didn't receive that kind of information from most of the abduction experiences, so that PSI phenomenon or PSI phenomena, I should say, tends to be different for the spirits haunted houses as opposed to the houses where abduction experience is taking place. Now, do you feel that that what they're experiencing? Do you have any ideas like somehow maybe they're still undergoing some kind of
psychological testing by the beings who are coming in and messing with them. I really you know that that is a really good question, and I'm attempting to collect more information before i can even present a hypothesis about that. I have wondered if it has something to do with the technology that the the ets or the science that the ets use in coming into our environment and taking us into
their environment, but who knows. It's It's very very interesting to me because some of this happened in my aunt's home and in my own childhood home, mostly after Betty's abduction experience. I don't remember any of it occurring when I was a young child, but this started up in my late teen and was going on when I was away at college as well. Wow, so not surprising because we pretty much know this that people have said that they had telepathic
kind of communication with these beings during their abduction. But something that I think is surprising that people had said that they had developed psychic abilities and or healing abilities after the abduction events at a large percentage. I thought that was very interesting. Yes, I did as well, and it's just fascinating that such a seventy nine percent said that they developed new psychic abilities after an abduction.
There was a smaller percentage she said that they had always had psychic abilities and they didn't know if it was because they were taken when they were young children and developed those abilities then, or if they had simply been born with those abilities. But very high percentage there. And were you able to speak with any of these people who felt they had developed healing abilities and how did they
discover that or how does this work? I think that they just and I didn't speak so many specifically about that, but it seems like they just sensed that they had this new gift and tried it out and it works. Yeah. Very interesting. So I guess finally getting into your miscellaneous category to see if you found something interesting here. First blood type, did you find anything significant there with the blood type, yes, and I would like to actually
do further study on blood types as well. Twenty nine in the group responded to the questions, so not everyone responded. That were fifty in the abduction experience or group, but many did not know their blood type. But of that twenty nine, fifty nine percent said that they were Type A and thirty four percent said that they were Type O. So, you know, I
don't know what all of this means. I found a much higher percentage of negative RH negative blood among these abduction experiences, and this has been reported in other studies as well, so it simply confirms what the findings of those other studies. Yeah, and I can't blame those people. I always forget my blood type. I don't know why, Like even right now, I can't remember what it is something important to know though, huh, yes it is.
And then finally, a lot of people who experienced electronic equipment malfunctioning prior to their abduction experiences, which I think you mentioned earlier, Yes, and that was not prior to, but immediately after their abduction experiences, where yes, their computers would malfunction. Watches sometimes the hands on the watch would spin light bulbs blowing out. You might not have just one appliance blowout, but
every appliance you touched that particular morning blows out or burns out. Light bulb after light bulb blows out. It's that sort of thing. Wow. Wow. So, I mean I think we reviewed just about everything. I think one thing I didn't mention in the physiological area that one of the other health effects or issues you talked about the scabbing, But people experiencing nose bleeds more
than abductees experiencing nose bleeds more than the control group. Oh yes, absolutely, there was a much higher percentage, and it occurred immediately after an abduction experience. There would be blood on the pillow or the person would be returned with a nose bleed, much higher, much much higher than the control group. Well, this is an incredibly interesting study. I think it's so I just love that there are people out there doing this sort of work, because
this is the kind of work that needs to be done. I mean, this is so important, and I think what you've done here, you and Denise, is just such an incredible contribution. And I think you said that there's more to your study, that this is just the first part of the study. Yes, this was the first part. The second part is on
commonalities in abduction experiences descriptions of ET technology. So the only people who are able to fill this out of those who have a fairly clear memory of their experience, how they're procured, how they're taken on board the craft, what they observe on the craft, what kind of procedures they undergo. It's that sort of thing. So I'm waiting. I have about I believe twenty eight questionnaires return to me right now. I would really like to get fifty.
So if there's anyone in the audience listening who has this information, would you please go to my website Kathleen Hyphen Martin m aar d N dot com. The questionnaire is there. There is also an informed consent form, and I would certainly appreciate having that information so that Denise and I can finish the second
part of our study. Right that's exciting, that sounds really interesting, And this is great because, like I said, the only other study I remembered was doctor Leo Sprinkles, and his was more of the along the lines of their kind of perceptions and their psychological makeup. I think he was able to demonstrate that these abductees weren't prone to fantasy anymore than any other person in the
population, which was, of course an important thing to point out. And one thing that always sticks with me from his study is that a lot of people after their experiences believed in reincarnation much more so than prior or people without the experiences. That was kind of weird, yes, but people obtain a lot of knowledge when they're on these cross and whether they can remember it or not, they seem to have suddenly have information that they didn't have before.
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this with us. I think this study is just incredible. So, you know, like you said, you can find the study also at Kathleen dash Martin dot com and there's it's in a pdf and just like a lot of the best research out there, you know, And so people can't argue that you're trying to make a buck, you know, they can go download anything from this report for free. That's correct, you can, And I funded this myself.
Well, thank you so much for your work. This is really really great stuff and I'm very satisfying to be searching for the answers and finding some of them. So it's been my pleasure and my pleasure to be on your show as well. Thanks for having me, all right, thank you. Kathleen is one cool lady. So remember Kathleen Dashmartin dot com. Go there, download the study, read it, get knowledge, be smart, and learn the more. So thank you all very much for listening to the show.
It's been an absolute pleasure to visit with you and spend more time with you. And guess what, don't be sad. Don't be sad. I know some of you're like, oh no, this show's over. We got next week. We're coming at you with another guest. We're gonna have more fun. So until then, biku noth