Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I have with me nobody. Jason is out of town today, so I'm flying solo. So today we have an interesting show. We've got a great guest. His name is Jordan Hopeer. He is actually a research specialist in anthropology for Muffon. He works in Darwinian evolution as doing all kinds of different stuff. That's what his degrees and he's taught in that
area. And he's written a book called Evolutionary Ufology, and he has some very original and interesting ideas about extraterrestrials, and we'll be talking to him about that. He has also put some of these ideas together in a fiction book called Saucerville that has just come out recently. It's kind of a coming of age book with some kids, and he has lots of his interesting ideas incorporated in this book. So we'll talk about that. We'll talk to him about
his evolutionary ufology ideas and it will be a lot of fun. And I got to say there's some definitely very unique and novel concepts that he has written about. So we'll talk to him in just a minute. Before that, we'll talk just a little bit about some of the news. Remember, you could get all the news at Openminds dot tv. You can also go to spacing Out on our YouTube channel to see more in the news. But we
had a lot of interesting news this week. I think one story that we wrote about I got it from the Daily Mail actually, and they got it from Wales Online kind of an ap of new service Wales New Service, and I haven't seen it written about very much, which is kind of interesting. And that is this British scientist, actually a team of scientists who believe they have found extraterrestrial life. So essentially, this guy's name is Chandra with Raham
singing. I know I'm saying his name wrong, but at least I'm making an attempt. And he is a gentleman who made some news earlier this year when he says that some of these meteorites that have been found do show kind of fossils of extraterrestrial life. This is something that's been debated for a long
time and he feels that that there really is some evidence for this. So he also is into the pant spermia idea, this idea that life kind of hitches a ride on asteroids and goes around the world or around the universe, and when it falls onto a planet, that's how we get these biological bacteria
and things on Earth that grew into more sophisticated life. In order to test his theory recently, a group of scientists led by him out of the University of Buckingham took a balloon and they put some slides that were sealed in there and they launched it to the stratosphere. They exposed these slides to the stratosphere, examined these slides when they came back to the Earth, and they found little microbes. They found these little complex organisms that haven't been seen before.
That are they even have pictures here will? They show that it has kind of a mouth area and an anus, so you might be interested in looking at those, But these are just tiny little things. And then they also found algae. What's significant about that is that supposedly life from Earth, these microscopic organisms should not be in the stratosphere. There's no way for them to
kind of be pushed out into the stratosphere. It's the theory. So if we can't have these things from Earth in the stratosphere, he's saying that then they're most likely extraterrestrial from somewhere else. Should mention also that they did this during the Persades meteor shower, So this is where the Persades where that kind of this cloud of debris is coming near the planet. So very interesting stuff and it hasn't gotten much news. I mean, they're scientific team is stating
we found extraterrestrial life. So I think that's really interesting. Hopefully maybe you'll hear more about it soon. Otherwise, kind of lots of UFO siting news. We talked about the Vancouver sidings at a baseball stadium. Those turned out to be hoaxes and we got a lot of information about that from the advertising agency who put on this hoak. So essentially, there's this space center in Vancouver. The HR McMillan Space Centers are also an observatory kind of a planetarium
type of place. Well, they revamped their UFO looking building and in order to promote it, they decided, well, let's kind of make this drone or this quad coppter that looks like our building like a UFO and fly it around and see if people think it's UFO. Sure enough, some people recorded it at the baseball game posted it saying, hey, what's this looks like a UFO, and that made a bunch of news, which was all part
of their plan. Well, we posted that and posted you know that, I'm sure some people will be a disappointed with their idea of kind of hoaxing in order to promote their center. So the ad agency said, you know, we weren't being malicious, and they sent us a lot of pictures and links to videos and stuff so we could post that in our story so you can see that. There. Otherwise, a few other interesting UFO stories you'll have to check out one. I think it's really interesting. A news agency
out of Lincoln, Nebraska. There's silver surfer UFO, which type of thing if you remember that in California a couple of years ago, but this time in Virginia. And then an interesting kind of dish shape photo that many are saying is LNS flair in Minnesota, and that one's got a lot of debate going. So yeah, a lot of cool sightings from this week, so check out Openminds dot tv for all of those sightings. But it is now time, my friends, to get to our main interview of the show.
So let's get Jordan Hofer on the line. Okay, I am excited to have Jordan Hofer on the line. He is an author and also has worked with Moufon as a research specialist in anthropology. So we'll talk about your new book and upcoming book I saw here in your experiences with Moufon. How are you. I'm fine. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, thanks for coming on to the show. So one of the things that you've got out now that you're promoting is a fiction book called Saucerville. Correct,
that's right. Great, And so this book is kind of it it looks like, does it have elements of comedy and horror and the kind of a mixing of kind of maybe some of the ideas or concepts you feel you've discovered from researching UFOs. Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's a it's a young adult novel. And the idea from the beginning was it was to make the
book fun, funny, fast, and scary as hell. That was that was the basic recipe for it. And so I just read along those lines, and yeah, it is based on a lot of it is based on actual cases for euthology. I did that for two reasons. I wanted to make it as believable as possible, to draw on, you know, all
of the the mythology and so forth that is within the UFO methods. And I also wanted to put in their actual cases so that after kids had read the book, they could you go back to it and see which cases I talked about and actually, you know, look them up on the internet or find a book and read about them. Ah. Interesting. So it takes place in Mcminville, Oregon, So i'd imagine the McMinnville case is one that you refer to. Yeah. Absolutely, As a matter of fact, the
book starts out with that. In the prologue. It starts out with the Trents seeing the UFL and taking their two famous photos of it, and then I weave in the characters from there, and then it moves on m So are you from the area. Yeah, I'm in Salem. It's about twenty twenty five miles away from mcmonville. Uh huh. And it sounds like from reading about the book, it that kind of like Roswell, people talk about UFOs and they kind of have this it's a topic in the town which kind
of annoys the main character. Right. Yeah, the main character absolutely hates UFOSS. He's sick of hearing about them, because that's what people talk about all the time. There's actually every year in Mcminville there's a festival UFO Festival, and it's the second largest, right after Boswell. And I do have a chapter that takes place at that festival. I've been there a couple of times and it was just it's just absolutely rich. It was just perfect for
writing from right. So, and a lot of people have been going to this McMinnville festival, right, they get pretty big. Yeah, it's a pretty big deal where actually, m yeah, it looks fun. Yeah. Yeah, We've got the parade on Saturday and the you know, the whole family gets into that and that's quite a spectacle. Uh. But on Friday night, the night before, we've had some pretty good speakers come. Last
this last year we had Nick Pope mm hmm. So you know, it's it is a lot of fun, but it's also you know, kind of
fun for us. The followgists too, Right, So getting into kind of your ideas and some of the concepts which look really interesting, seemed like they kind of of stem back from how you originally got involved with this whole field and if I understand correctly, you were skeptical yourself, but you had friends who had experiences, and so you found yourself struggling with whether to believe them
or not. Is that correct? Yeah, that is correct. And it basically started in two thousand and eight, the spring of two thousand and eight, and my best friend of thirty four years saw a huge black rectangle fly low over his house and it emitted a deep thrumming sound that actually rattled his windows. Wow. Yeah. And I was still teaching in academia at the
time at a state university here in Oregon. And when you're in academia, you just don't even think about things like you have those even when they happened to your best friend. It's just something you don't even deal with. You just shove it back. And I didn't. This was the horrible part I realized after I got out of academia, after the recession hit and I lost my job, I realized that I hadn't even believed my best friend h And
that really shocked me. I realized that, you know, it had been a form of betrayal actually, because if I had seen such a thing, I would I'm sure it's all want him to believe me. Yeah, it reminds me of you know, this guy I know who did lectures, had sightings and he used the little red truck theory, which was something he talked about. If your friend came to you and said, you know, I saw a little red truck get in an accident at the stoplight, you wouldn't
think twice. You would believe that that happened. But when they tell you an extraordinary story, you know, you have a hard time believing him, even though you know they're your friend and someone who's trustworthy. Yeah. Absolutely, and his his wife and son had seen it too, So I was really just kind of, you know, not believe in his our family,
which is quite an extraordinary position for a friend to take. You know, having that perspective, as being someone who was skeptical of your friend's story while you're in academia, and then having a different perspective once you got out of it. What was the difference? Why did you Why do you feel you had that different perspective while you were working for the school as opposed to them
not. Oh that's yeah, that's that's quite simple to answer. Actually, in academia, anything that's considered paranormal or of high strangeness as we have and say, it's just it's a career killer. And one of my one of my heroes when I was teaching at university's name was Professor Gilver Kurranz, and he taught at Washington State University for several years, and he was a physical
anthropologist, and he had just a hobby of studying bigfoot. And he spent maybe five percent of his time applying the tours of physical anthropology to studying Bigfoot. But it didn't matter if it was just a hobby. It destroyed his career. He was unable to advance as a professor. A lot of people didn't take him seriously. And this even though he had written some very excellent books and articles and so forth on Homo erectus and human evolution in general.
Right, But so he served as an example why to stay away from it. Absolutely, it doesn't even come into your mind to entertain the saying. I knew of another professor to local community college who was trying to get into one of the universities I was teaching at, and they would not let him in because they knew that he had theories about Atlantis. Huh see, he was kept out of the state university system simply because he had that belief.
Wow. So when that moment came and you kind of had that realization and you're like, wow, you know, I've been disloyal to my friend and his family and that's not cool. That means that that's kind of a big deal, because that means you have to sit down and entertain the possibility, which is kind of a you know, a world change, a worldview changing type of thing, that maybe he really saw what he saw. Oh yeah, yeah, he saw some kind of machine. He was not hallucinating.
It was not a far away light. It was not Venus. He told me himself that as he was watching this Black Triangle, he fixed Venus in his vision. He saw Venus and he's like, okay, well there's Venus. So I know it's not Venus. But it definitely was an epiphany, and you know, I felt pretty horrible about myself at first, but then I just got to work and you know, he's trying to figure out what the heck this USO phenomena are all about, and you know, I'm never
doing it together. Mm. So that's when you really got then just kind of thrust into the field. And is it that when you started to work with Moufan. Yeah, that's that's when I joined NUFAUN as a research specialist and I started to just an extensive literature review so that I had a pretty
good idea of you know, the history of ethology. So it looked as though, because you work in you're an evolutionist, so you work with classical darwin theories and things like that, that you have developed this concept of evolutionary euthology. So you it sounds like you've applied your field to this, to the UFO field, and what have you found or where has that led you? Well, yeah, that's kind of interesting there what what I realized right off? I said, okay, well I've had this epiphany. You know,
UFOs do exist. I don't know what they are, but they do exist. I've had two epiphanies that strong in my life, and then we're the UFOs. The other was through the study of evolution and then seeing, uh, you know, through deep time the changes that have occurred over the last three and a half billion years on this planet. So it almost since
those were the two largest epiphanies I've ever had. It kind of demanded a synthesis, bringing them together and seeing what the interplay of the two studies could teach me. And and so how did you begin to apply that and what were some of the maybe theories that you came up with. Okay, well, the first thing I really started thinking about was if these you know, bafore I was thinking of these these UFOs are craft, and if the craft,
they're probably being pilated by somebody. And I basically go with the extraterrestrial hypothesis. It just seems to me to be the simplest explanation. And if they're extraterrestrial, they're probably gray. And so then I try to figure out, okay, what kind of a critter is a gray because you know, you hear these reports about them and they're you know, sometimes quite varied. That I was really interested in what what kind of an animal is this thing?
And how what what kind of evolutionary forces would it take to evolve this kind of a creature. So that that was the first the first way in which I started to synthesize the idea. I know I've seen I think it was in the seventies you're probably familiar with it, where there was a somebody who worked along those lines who came up with what humans would look like in
the future. Well, actually, I think there's a few people who have done that as we evolve, and they both kind of came up with these ideas of these kind of creatures that were shorter, with bigger heads and bigger eyes, and the heads and eyes kind of being disproportionate to the body, as our bodies would be used less as they are now. I'm a perfect example sitting here in my cubicle, I know all day every day. Is that kind of where you were headed? Not really, that's I mean that
that is interesting, That is interesting, But was headed? Was more what happened to the grays in the past. And one of my one of my clues that I got early on, there had been a recent discovery of in Antarctica of this really strange looking albino antarctic octopus, and it was it was very, very very pale, It had huge dark eyes, and it looked a lot like a gray And so I just started asking myself, well, okay, you know, we just kind of assume that these critters are bipedal
and so forth, but what if they're not? What if that what if that vertical position of their body is more for our benefit than for theirs. What if they were had a horizontal orientation and instead of being mammalian, what if there were more like a like a celphal pod, like like an octopus or something. And so I kind of put it from there and and then and then just and then just played with it. You know it literally,
this was a thought experiment. Uh, it's it's it's speculation. But a lot of it too, is based on reports that abductees have made about the odors of these creatures and what they look like and so forth and so on. Mm hmm. So it seems like you do, uh feel strongly at least you uh subscribe to the idea that people have been abducted in seeing these gray type of aliens. Yeah, I I I do. I do accept
that fact. I do. What for you has been the evidence that has been compelling enough to to have you go there, from you know, your friend seeing a Solly Craft to going to wow, you know, this abduction phenomenon is probably real too. Yeah. For one thing, a lot of reading work of David Jacobs, John Mack, of course, Bud Hopkins, but also Karina Sables, who lives in Victoria, British Columbia, and heard the collectors her account her accounts of being abducted were so believable in a in
a in a personable sense. They had they had the ring of truth kind of from one person to another like she was. She was just telling the story of what happened to her, and I found it absolutely believable. It had the ring of truth to it, so that that was one. Also the works of Carla Turner, those really influenced me and changed my thinking on
it. Some of the work of Butch with Kowski studying human mutilations, and also a story that John Mack told about the Zimbabwe school children case where something like sixty five kids in Zimbabwe at this kind of colonial school they were out on recess and they all said, this spaceship land and these graves come out and communicate with them through telepathically through the eyes. And that one for me
was that that that was the case. Is that it for me? And that it's seen the children being interviewed on YouTube, and I just thought that was utterly credible. Yeah, incredible case and hopefully I mean there's a gentleman
working on a documentary hopefully that'll come out soon. And I've seen he spoke at the UFO Congress a couple of years ago where he interviewed some of those kids who are in like their twenties now, And Yeah, very interesting because they still you know, hold to their stories that they had, you know,
witness this incredible and had this incredible experience. So another from looking at some of your evolutionary ufology, the book that you have coming out, it looks like you kind of feel and maybe in the book it's like you said, it's terrifying and horrifying as you could get it. Do you feel that way that you know these abduction experiences this is this is horrifying and and possibly
malicious experience. Well, some people, of course don't think so. Some people feel that they are gaining something spiritually from these abductions and so forth. But it seems to me that the the majority of the cases, I would say, yes, these are these are malicious trespasses, and the Grays are not our benevolent space brothers. They are up to their own nasty and scrutable
of whatever they're doing. Yeah, one of the ways, one of the big indicators I could tell that you didn't think too positively about, you know, the Grace and their Agendas? Was another book that you have coming up that trigger to title Little Gray Bastards. Yeah, that was a big kind of Oh okay, he doesn't like you guys very much. Yeah, hope hopefully that will be coming out. Schiffer hasn't told us yet whether or not
we've got the green light, but we we are planning that. And yes, that that pretty much does does some power field when it comes to your experiences as someone working with evolution, and I would imagine, at least in human evolution, well probably in all evolution, motivation of a species has a big part to do with that. Do you then, can you apply that to the Grays? Have you been able to figure out what you think might be the motivations and help help give you an idea of what they might be
up to and why. Yeah, I have come up with with some ideas that I explore in evolutionary ethology. I know that David Jacobs does not agree with me on a lot of these points. He was he was still kind enough to write praise for the book. However, I think that they are basically psychotic creatures that they're not here to help us. Uh. There often will show to a to an abductee scenes of the earth dine of being destroyed. And if you know that that's nothing new. We we know about environmental
degradation. So they're not helping us there at all. We've got plenty of the excellent scientists who are telling us these sounds, but they don't seem to be helping with any kind of environmental programs, not even with recycling. So right, it seems to me that that that they have great potential to help, but they're not. They're they're they're busy collecting a sex cells and they're busy hybridizing. And I think I think one of one of their one of
one of their main focuses is simply rape. As as a psychotic would enjoy rape, I think that the grades do as well. And I know it sounds kind of crazy to say that these critters have come thirty nine years to rate us, but they're nuts, they're crazy, and they're mean. The manner in which they go about this, however, is kind of seems sort of clinical. You know, they use equipment to extract do you know, the ova or the sperm and so that would be different than kind of just
for the enjoyment. Right. Well, again, I'm not entirely sure because how much material do they actually need? Why do they need to keep doing this again and again and again repeatedly. Yeah, I just don't get that. I mean, I hear what you're saying about, you know, how they do it clinically, But I think even then you know they're written off on it. Well, and you have a good point and that you know,
how much would they need? Why would they keep needing to do this unless I mean, what are your ideas about the hybridization as to why that would be happening? Okay, Yeah, there's another area where I differ from
a lot of folks. I think it's entirely possible. I mean, if the grays are out there, it seems to me it's entirely possible there's a larger galactic ecology that we're not even aware of, and that the graves are just one of that ecology's predators, and that they probably are at competition with other species. Butch Rakowski made some calculations on you know, just how many people have been abducted and furthermore, how many people have been abducted and never
returned. And I mean it was in the hundreds of thousands, since let's just say nineteen sixty one, when when Bonnie and Betty Hill abduction occurred. Actually those nineteen sixty one, wasn't it? Um Wait, checks, I'm terrible with numbers. Sixty one, okay, sixty one, that's right. Okay. So anyway, it turns out that there have been just like hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of abductions and some people have never been
returned. And this sounds more like a conscription program to me. So I'm guessing that they're taking a lot of people and conscripting them into some kind of army in which they they they're perhaps hybridizing folks or you know, giving them send abilities that the grades have, kind of like a weapons upgrade. I think one of the things that we have that they don't that could very well be useful in a war is that we are very emotional. We have strong,
savage passions. We can murder. They the grades, the grades might be psychotic, but they're not as emotional about it, and we are. And we're I think we're better at at at war than they are. So and I guess one, when you say tychotic, that kind of I also kind of illicit to kind of an irrationality, yes to what's going on? Yeah. In Ivan T. Sanderson's booken Visible Residence, he thought that the aliens were and these are his words, stupid and insane. And I've kind
of gone with that. That once again has a ring of truth to me. And so I've kind of followed with that. And it isn't It is actually possible to be stupid and insane and still technologically superior. And look at us with our nuclear weapons and so forth. That's stupid and insane, but it's very technological. Have there been examples in evolution of kind of of what
you're describing, Oh, that's interesting. You mean of a species being stupid ina and and and and also having technology or not maybe the technology part, but maybe thriving even though they're stupid insane. Well, I think definitely with the stupid part you could you could talk about, for example, the hymenopterans like termites, lost and so forth. Is that form extremely use social and
cooperative societies, yet each member is is just basically a robot. I think it's entirely possible that the grades do have some form of high hierarchy similar to that, and that that would definitely explain their kind of stupid their stupidness. But oh gosh, those species on Earth, it's both stupid and insane. I don't know. Maybe maybe the chimpanzees. Uh they also I have known, been known to go to war and be quite violent, killing their their
fellow species that were just you know, an outsider group. So you know, maybe maybe maybe the the chimpanzees. Certainly they've gone insane in captivity. But uh no, that's a really good question. I can't think of a species that would fit both those criteria except for the human rights. Mm hm. Well, and then on the second part of the question, you still believe though that sort of they could still develop technology. Yeah, I do. I do, because we do have a great example in US and just
humans themselves. Yeah, the human right is as large as being stupid and insane. So maybe that's the nature of intelligence. It could be at least to a certain level of development. And then if you can make it past that level of deveolovement, well then then you're a lucky species. So that's kind of interesting because that then he's certainly a different theory, and it's interesting
that it stems back from ivin T. Sanderson. But then it differs from for example, Jacobs in that there is no kind of higher plan like a
grand plan here. It's more kind of maliciousness for maliciousness sake, Yeah, exactly, aside from possibly taking you know, a few hundred thousand of us and and turning us into some kind of weapon that they could use for a war in the larger galactic ecology, and that larger galactic ecology then and could be similar to the animal kingdom we have here where you have your predators and
you have just these these battles and people fighting for survival. Absolutely absolutely, it's it's it's Darwinism rip really large, like on the galactic level or even higher. Yeah, I mean darwin natural collection is natural law, and therefore, just like gravity, we would expect it to work the same everywhere in the universe. So then do you not see humans as being able to overcome
these natural laws or this Darwinistic idea? So for instance, if we look at the United States, you know, it's moved from this empirical type of and maybe this is something you don't think it's true where you know, we're not going around conquering countries anymore. Instead we're helping countries, which is kind of a shift from the last even in the last few decades, maybe because the Cold War, you know, it was kind of a similar thing where
there were countries kind of being influenced. Do you feel that perhaps we're not moving away from that. I think people would feel that humanity is moving away from it, But do you feel that not to be the case. Actually, I'm quite optimistic about that. There are more organizations now than have ever existed in the history of the human species set up to help other people everywhere in the everywhere in the world, and it seems that that's the way we're
headed. We may need to get knocked on our butts by either something horrible like a limited nuclear war, or by global climate change and the acidification of the oceans and pollution and on and on and on to really give us a lesson of hey, that's enough. We need to put that behind us and move on to the next step, which which I think would be something analogous to like the Federation in Star Trek, something like that, something that would
be more than just cooperation it would. It would actually be a species wide ethos that would that would move us away from what you were talking about, the nation conquering and move us more towards the fulfillment of dreams. It sounds like you would feel then that we are closer to that ideal than the great. Yeah, yes, I would, actually I would. I would definitely say that. I I guess that I uh, I guess I guess that I'm racist towards the grave. They If someone asked me, are we better
than they are? I would answer yes, We're not only different, we are better than they are in everything that is important to us as human beings. We are better than the Grace. But the one up they have is technology. Yeah, exactly, They've they've they've got us with that. Could that be because they're older, Yeah, I think I think probably so, They've they've probably got quite a bit of time, uh, in which they've been working on their technology. There's probably quite a bit of a spread between
them and us. So, and we'll get back to your nonfiction and second, because I think we've probably covered kind of a lot which I think is really interesting around your evolutionary upology. But when it comes to little great Bastard. Is that going to be a fiction or is that a nonfiction? It's going to be a non fiction that it's going to be much more fanciful than
evolutionary ethology. My editor and I kind of wanted to make it almost like almost like a textbook, not not really, because you know, it's even though it's nonfiction, you know it's going to be fun. Nobody wants to pick up the book on really anything and how it not be fun in some way. But but yeah, Little Gray Bastards, if it gets greenlighted, will be It's going to take some other speculations that are that are much more out there that that I wanted to investigate and that my my co author,
David Barker wants to investigate. Yeah. Interesting, Well, you know, there are a lot of people too who just in this field, a lot of the very serious researchers who just can't get past that what they do is not socially acceptable to our standards and that it and thus it's wrong. And I got to think even you know, I think maybe a little more positively
about what might be happening. It's a good point that you know, if you're going to ingratiate yourself if this is happening, If you're going to ingratiate yourself to another culture, you don't do it by, you know, instead of shaking their hand, bending them over and probing them. They're not going to appreciate that. You're not going to get very far diplomatically by doing that. So, yeah, it's interesting. So getting back to your book,
then it sounds like it might be kind of fun. I mean, Saucerville, the fiction book that has just come out, is that what Elliott, the main character, begins to define is that they're not only not nice, they're kind of random in their actions. Yeah, he's thought so interested in that. It's another character, a supporting character, his friend Stella. She's a genus genius level at thirteen, and she kind of has this hope that
the aliens are going to save us from ourselves. And when she's adopted and these horrible things are done to her, of that beautiful dream gets kind of torn apart, and so you get to kind of feel along with her this disappointment that oh gosh, they really are not here to help. They just they're just here to hurt. Mm hm. So it is kind of this guy and this is a trilogy. Yes, yeah, Saster that was the first book. The second book is called Conifer, and I'm working on that
right now. I'm about fifty percent done. M hm. So it sounds kind of interesting. How is the reception of the book gone from everyone who that I've heard from? Everyone I've heard from has said that it's really great. They couldn't put it down. It kept them up to three and learning, and those are great things to hear. I haven't heard much from a
larger audience yet. I have a part time job working as a tutor at a middle school here in town, and the kids there they're they're really excited about this book and one of the teachers is going to adopt it for you goal No, really great. Yeah. So I mean that's been a perfect test audience to see just how much they like it. And when when I was still writing it before it was published, they asked me, Okay, well does it have a love interest in it? Does it have this?
Does it have that? You know, all the things that they wanted, And so I was able to actually talk with my test audience and make sure that my book had what they wanted in it. Oh interesting, and what made you want to focus it at young adults. Well that that was the brilliance of my friend Jennifer Madin, who was in the middle school teacher at the time, and she had been studying juvenile literature and realized that in that market there were no books about UFOs, none, not one, and that
this is a niche that could be filled. She came up to the original idea. She said, you should write it, and as she and her husband helped me flash it out and make it work. And without them it wouldn't exist. I wouldn't I wouldn't even have thought to have written it. Wow. Cool. And then what are some of the cases that are that you cover touch upon in the book? And how does the book go about doing that? Yeah, it's uh, let's see. I mean, I
know, I know. I mentioned Varney and Duddy Hill, I mentioned the Zimbabwe school children case. I mentioned Carla Turner. You know, basically, I have characters who know a lot about uthology and and and they they'll make moments at certain moments about you know, oh, this reminds me of this
case or whatever. And I know it sounds cumbersome explaining it this way, but it actually works pretty well in the book, So I guess when it comes to because it sounds like a good way for someone thinking of the audience the listeners who is into this topic to kind of introduce it to their young
adult children. And however, some of them who are and maybe it's like a fifty to fifty split would be my guest on those who think the Grays are bad or that they're good, or out there who believe in the Grays at all. The ones though, that have more of a positive outlook, do you think this is still a good book that they should because I could see them saying, well, I don't want to give my kid a book
that says, you know, the aliens are bad. What would you be your argument for, Hey, you should still have them take a look. Yeah, that's that's a great question. I I don't know that I would argue to them. Yeah, I think I think I actually might, because because a parent like that obviously wants to instill a certain worldview, and these the world view in these books is not entirely sparkling. It's it's kind of dirty, it's kind of dangerous, it's edgy. And if that's not the
kind of thing that a parent wants their tild to read the will. I fully support and understand that. I myself like to look at, you know, all different sorts of ways of thinking about you fall. You know, whether it's someone who you know doesn't even believe it, or if it's perhaps from a Christian perspective, or you know, where they think that they're actually
demons and so forth. I find all of that interesting, frankly, But at the same time I realized that most people, you know, don't really have that much of a pluralist attitude about it, that they are probably one way or another. Yeah, right, right. And so finally, I guess when it comes to well, a couple of questions. One, what would be then your strongest argument if you were to say, you know, you had a moment to say, well, here's why I think, here's
why I question their motives. What would be what would you tell people, Oh, well, certainly the simple cost benefit analysis. What what bad things have they done to us? Well, they've raped us, they've they've scared the heck out of us, They've they've they've probably killed and mutilated some of us, and they haven't really given us anything in return. What's one thing they've given us in return, and they cured one disease. Like I said
earlier, have they helped with the environment even one bit? You know, cycled one tin can uh? You know, I don't think they have that. That's that's my argument. At the same time, I want to make it very clear that I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm merely giving one more voice and putting more ideas out there. And I think that the more different ideas that we have working in euthology, the better chance we will all have a starting to figure out or learning how to figure out some
of these phenomena. And then I think, would these be good books for adults to Some of the boats have read them and really enjoyed them. So yeah, I mean, if if you like a good euthology, want if you liked for example, J. J. Abrams Super eight, you know it was kind of that I did too. I mean, it just it had that that that feeling of being a kid again and you know, the possibilities on a summer night. And if if if you're ready in kind of
nostalgia like that, I think you'd enjoy the book. And then finally, being someone who's come from academia and seeing the problems, like you said, the career killing problems of being into some fringe topics. How do you feel we can get past that? Do you think we will get past that? Or is it? Is it kind of too hard of a thing to tackle anytime soon? That's that's that's an excellent question. I don't think that academia is going to bend anytime soon at all. The folks that I have known
are about career planning. They're about uh, they're about writing and publishing articles, and that's it, and anything else they see as a threat and a waste of time. And I don't I don't think the academia is going to change anytime soon. David Halprin, who wrote the novel Journal of the UFO Investigator, he was he was an academia too for many years, and for a while he was able to get away with his his kind of side project
of studying euthology. But he said he did catch up with them at the end, and luckily he was at the point where he was ready to retire, so he didn't care. Mm hmm. Great. Interesting. Well, people can go to Amazon to get to your book Saucerville and then Is that the best place to go? Yeah, it's yeah, uh huh and uh so is there do you have another website? Yes, I do. It's it's for the Saucerville Trilogy and it's the website is just called the Fast of
the Trilogy dot com. Okay, okay, perfect, great, Thanks well, thank you so much for being on the show. It's a really interesting and different perspective, which always is a lot of fun to hear something I haven't heard before. So and I think a lot of people will because it's been a long time since I've talked with someone who kind of had a different point of view. So I'm sure there'll be some people that always are to come out of the work work and say, hey, that guy makes some
sense to me. So but either way, it sounds like a fun book. Well, thank you very much and thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much to Jordan for joining us on the show. So some pretty interesting ideas I think that you would agree, like the Little Gray Bastards type of stuff. That book's going to be coming out in a little bit. You can read about when that book is coming out. Actually, on his website, he didn't mention this one Jordanhofer UFO dot
WordPress dot com. Jordanofer and Hopfer is h O f E r UFO dot WordPress dot com. He mentioned the other site that Sacerville Trilogy dot com website where you can read about the Saucerville book and then you can go to Amazon and look for Saserville, Jordan Hofer or EVOLUTIONARYUFO or ufology and you'll find him on Amazon and all of his books there. So if you want to look up some more information, that is how you find it. Thank you once
again for joining us for OPENMINDUFO Radio. Next week we're planning to talk about UFO and the Bibles from a gentleman who's on ancient aliens once in a while, so you'll want to check that out. Of course, check out the website openminds dot tv. Check out our YouTube channel where we've always got cool new stuff going up there, including spacing Out. There'll be a new one
this week. And then I want to, as usual, thank the people who made our music because I'm so appreciative of them offering their music for us, and I think they're very talented and it's great music. Tayleib Hanks for doing the opening music, and then two earth minutes for the close, which you will hear momentarily. Thank you all for listening audio, smooth chutos. We'll talk to you next week. Hi st st, st st st st