Jason McClellan, The Billy Meier UFO Case

Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO use authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomena. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Hello, and thank you mister Roberto Dean for introducing me. That's always so nice. And I know people we got some comments, some guys like, let's Sue's read that. Robert Dean, this is your intro. That is thank you very much. We have a lot going on. I know you guys missed the hell out of us. We missed

you too. People were freaking out. But it's okay now because we're back and we're better than ever. One of the questions that I have been getting quite a bit before I talk about who our guest is, it's about Frank Kimbler. And I keep talking about him every week because people keep asking what's

going on, what's going on? What's going on? And some of you may have seen online that yes, indeed, one of the samples that he sent, the first sample, he sent it to a lab to have it analyze, but according to the lab technician, when the package got there, it was not there. He told us on the air that he was going

to walk those samples personally to see them get analyzed. And I know it sounds like maybe to some of you out there who are you know, kind of like me a little bit, you know, you would think that's just kind of ridiculous that you would have to do that. You can mail a sample, how could it get lost? Which a big deal. People mail stuff all the time. Actually I get stuff lost in the mail all the time. But anyway, it wasn't it. She opened the package and it

wasn't there, So very strange. Of course, conspiracy minds are flying. How did the sample not get from point A to point B? Some people are thinking, well, maybe Frank for got to put it in there, that's what the lab tech thought. Actually, but as we know we've had him on the show, he's a very rigorous person. He takes every step of the process very seriously because he teaches science and this is what he teaches

his students to do, so he's very careful. So there is absolutely no doubt that he put the sample in the package, at least in my mind or his mind. But somehow between point and B. Point B being a very trusted source, so this lab that it went to was someone that was a friend had referred to someone who could be very trusted. The person who opened the package is that this person knew. So all along this chain of those we know involved seem to be very reputable people. So it is very

strange, of course that this sample is gone. Luckily, as Frank says, it's no big deal because he has many more samples. He's got something like fourteen in total, so not a problem. He is going to keep on trucking along and I get those analyzed and we'll see where it goes from there. But I did want to update people because people did put that on the web, and I wanted to confirm that I've been in contact with Frank,

and that is indeed what has happened. Some people have accused Frank of doing it himself, sending an empty package so that he could say, oh man, I had this et proof, but it was stolen by the government and now it's gone. That's kind of ridiculous because just like he says, he's got other samples. I mean, if that was the only sample, maybe I could see that people thinking that, you know, I've met him. I know he's not a goofy guy like that he is a very serious

person. So but he's got more samples, So that kind of blows that kind of out of the water that Frank is trying to pull any kind of silliness. And if you yourself are a scientist or you have a lab and you would like to get involved with helping Frank in this process, you know,

please contact us. We have had actually a couple of people contact us who we've referred over to Frank and Frank has talked to and in fact, when we posted our story, there were some people asking, well, what about the square root of sixty four on page thirty nine of the analysis, and you know, way over my head. So I forwarded them to Frank and they were able to talk about their observations about the analysis. So that's

my voice for a very smart guy like mathematician. Well what about the hyperpot news of the you know, something like that. That's as opposed to you know, the common kind of guy, Hey, what's going on? We're in woods title mahah Bontton news. You know that's that's the other voice you guys have heard me do. So that's what's going on with Kimbler. I wanted to update everybody so they know because we've gotten so many questions also in

Open Minds News. Very exciting. I'm very excited. I got to meet and talk with dan Ackroyd and he was We partied, you know, and got loaded, and the next day, you know, he let me do a little interview with him, and we were just so hungover. Actually, if you know me, I don't drink so very much. I have about

a glass a wine or equivalent once a month. Like literally, I've got a twelve pack of beer that I got nearly a year ago, and I've still got six of them left because I can't even finish a whole one. I'll open one and have maybe a quarter of it. Just not my thing. But anyway, anymore, Lord knows I used to drink a lot. But anyway, I did get to meet dan Ackroid. The only truce to that story I just told you was that actually I did get to meet him.

On Sunday morning, he was doing a signing of his Crystal Head Vodkas. I go there and I get in line. The line is I got there fifteen minutes early. The line is a down the street. So I get mine, thinking, wow, this is going to be a couple hours and then our super cool video director guy Tom Ruffin, who you guys have seen his work because he puts together a lot of these videos. He calls my phone and says, no, come up front, Come up front, and he got us in and we were able to ask if we could do

an interview, and Ackroyd was super cool. He was really excited about it. He looks kind of tired in the interview, so you can't tell. You kind of at first think is he annoyed by you know, all hundred bugging him like this, But actually he was really cool. He's like, no, come around, you know, get this guy a chair, you know, let's talk. And so he was really cool. I got to

ask him a few questions. It was extremely busy, so we were in and out of there as quick as we can because these people that I was getting in the way of their getting their stuff signed had been there for hours waiting in line, and here's some chump talking and taking up all of Vackroyd's time while they're trying to get their Ghostbuster stuff signed and everything. But we

did talk to him about UFO is a subject that he loves. It's near and dear to his heart and we have a story up today at open Minds dot tv where you can see that video, which of course is on our YouTube as well, and then on the Open mind to that TV story you can read actually an article that was just in our Hollywood issue of the Open Minds magazine which outlines Akroyd's background in UFO's different how he got involved with UFOs and the paranormal and all of that sort of thing. So it was very

cool. Ackroyd is a super super cool guy. I mean, this guy is so cool. He's cool with everybody. You can see in the video where he's messing around with people and having fun. He's just a really cool guy. And then someday maybe I'll try the vodka, but I don't want to open up my signed bottles. But you can even see my sign bottled on the website there. So that was a lot of fun. I wanted to let you guys know about that, But I also want to let you

know about our guest today. His name is Jason mc clellan, and he just wrote in the latest issue of Open Minds a story about Billy Meyer and he was able to do I mean, he really went in depth. He which is tough. We sat down and we're like, you know what, someone's got it. We've been talking about this for months. Someone's got to write the story of Billy Meyer. Antonio and I of course have a little more background in it, but we're a little more biased to although I've typically

been on the fence on this one and uh so. But we didn't want to do it because we knew it'd be a lot of work, and we volunteered Jason before he got to the meeting. But he came and he said, yeah, I'll take it on and he did, and he was very thorough, read a lot of information, did a lot of in depth research, and so we decided I decided to bring him because it was a great

story to the show. He had a long way to go to fly out here actually to drive down the street or stay here a little later, actually flew in from San Diego for this show, but so we could talk about his research and so people on the show can hear, Okay, here is an unbiased opinion of someone who just you know, tackled the issue to see what he could discover. And he discovered some things I didn't know about and that I think are very interesting, and I won't give it awake because I'll

make you guys have to wait. But it actually, you know, just the information he provided made me change my mind about billy Meyer. You don't know which way I'm gonna go, though, so you're gonna have to wait for that for a little later when we get into the interview. So this is the Billy Meyer Show. I know some of you are waiting, and there's people that are so emotional on either side. Here there's the pro Billy Meyer camp and there's the anti Billy Meyer camp, very little in between.

Mostly people are very much on one side or the other. But you know, we want to stick with the truth, and we're risking pissing off one of you groups of people by going over. And I'm sure some of you are waiting. Is he gonna make me mad? There's no way. He's got to believe what we believe. So we'll see what happens. But before we do that, let's bring on this other guy, our news correspondent. He's the guy that you can see in our ultra cool Simpson's cartoon done by

Dale, and he's a guy with the mohawk there. He's a character in real life as well, and that is Jason McClellan, our news correspondent. Jason, why don't you tell us about some of the UFO news of the week. I will, and I'll do it very quickly because your guest sounds extremely exciting today. Take your time. Oh all right, I will.

But first I want to point out that, as promised, I am drinking from my Dale Hendri Henry and your tube watchers are if they're watching right now on yes, if you're watching right now on the video, you can see the coffee cup I promised. That has the illustration done by our friend Dale from the Simpsons. We're just so happy about this. There we are you, Maureen and I are there. Your hands are flailing in the air. Yep, just like that. One of the coolest cups I've seen in my

life. Yep. And now you have to get one, and Morn has to get one, and we are coper cups for the show. Yeah, very sweet. All right, let's do some news. This is your open Mind UFO Newsbrey for Monday, September twelfth, twenty eleven. Approximately twenty UFOs were seen in the sky above Moravia, Costa Rica. On Saturday, August

twenty seventh. The mysterious lights were witnessed by physicians, agents of Costa Rica's version of the FBI, and Allejandro, I'll say this just because I know that you want to practice saying this, because this is important because you're you're a Spanish speaker. It's actually called the Organismo they investigates the on Hudisia.

That's their FBI or equivalents of the FBI. So they were physicians, these doctors and their FBI equivalents, agents and other professionals at a party and the witnesses initially thought that the lights were from helicopters, but no aircraft was ruled out by the nearby airport control tower. Witnesses claimed the UFOs were visible for

five to ten minutes, moving from east to west through the sky. One of the witnesses recorded the lights on video, which was later broadcast on Telenotesias, a local news station, and according to Inside Costa Rica dot Com, the video was being subjected to analysis and field research to determine what the lights were. But following the incident, a family revealed to investigators that they were

responsible for the lights in the sky. According to Telenotsias and a follow up's follow up report, the family said they launched twenty seven Chinese lanterns on August twenty seventh as part of a fiftieth wedding anniversary celebration, and similar lights were seen in the Guy in the Caribbean, but the same family claims responsibility for those lights as well. They claimed that they sold Chinese lanterns to a relative

who happens to live in the Caribbean. So that's kind of strange and convenient. But those who witnessed the twenty plus lights above Moravia on August twenty seventh have a hard time believing that the lights were simply Chinese lanterns because their description of these lights, and again these are the doctors and the government agents described

the lights as having an intelligent movement about them. So we've seen Chinese lanterns and they're i won't say obvious, but you can pretty much tell what a Chinese lantern is in the sky. And these people saw these lights and thought it was a helicopter and saw them moving through this guy intelligently as they say. Then comes this family saying, oh, yeah, that was us, And then they said, well, what about these other lights? We also we were also seen in the Caribbean. Oh yeah, that's us too,

Yeah, and the Caribbean. Yeah, that's kind of wild. I mean, yeah, I could see them launching some Chinese lanterns. But then to say that's what throws some doubt in here, is to say that these Caribbean ones were also them and they knew about them. That's kind of interesting. It is kind of interesting. I mean, we hear this a lot. We have witnesses who capture these lights on video, and then we hear stories of people coming forward saying those are from our party. Where are people freaking

out? And it's certainly plausible, you know, the plausible explanation it does happen. I mean, we know that your neighbor's probably freaked out when we launched them at your house. But yeah, it's kind of interesting that this one family cleansed responsibility for all these lights that we're seeing. Yeah. Now, I mean the flares you know at the military base, those have freaked out people like where I live, and I have videotape them and they look

strange. So it can be hard to tell. Even with the Chinese lanterns, I can see how they would be hard to tell unless you watch them for a period of time. I mean they may appear to go over the horizon when are really falling. The ones we saw they dropped pretty quick. Yeah, and these witnesses said the lights they saw five to ten minutes, so that's about the time of a long Chinese lantern. But yeah, so

that's possible. Yeah. The thing that throws doubt to the credibility of the witnesses and that these people are saying, oh yeah, those were ours. Well, also, these government agents, you know, these agents who supposedly are their job is investigating things. They probably investigated strange lights in the sky before, who knows, but they are trained observers, so the fact that they were kind of freaked out by these lights is interesting too. Yeah.

Well, in February twenty eleven, and I will say this, this is a slightly dated story, but I wanted to mention it because we had talked about it a lot on the show back in February, and I hadn't delivered a follow up to this story, So I'll do that now. Lucy Hawking, writer in residence for Arizona State University's Origin Project, launched a writing contest called Dear Alien, which asked students to answer the following questions, what would

you say to extraterrestrials if earthlinks are contacted from outer space? If you had to speak for humanity, what would you say? According to the Arizona Republic, nearly one thousand messages were submitted to the contest. Benjamin Lee, a seventh grade student from Mesa, Arizona, won the contest. Now the ceremony in early April twenty eleven, Stephen Hawking, Lussy's father, presented. He

was the present at the festivities they had. They had a multi day sort of fest for their Origins project, and Stephen Hawking was there and he read Lee's message, which stated, Dear Aliens, please help save our world, not from you, from ourselves. We are destroying our planet and need help for more technologically advanced beings. Our planet is polluted, many nations are at

war, there is civil unrest, and our economy isn't turmoil. And despite Stephen Hawking's grim warning against attempting to contact aliens, Lee's message was beamed into space where was bounced off the moon. Professor and theoretical physicist Paul Davies was

also involved with the Dear aliens contest. Davies is head of the SETI Post Detection Task Group, which means that when contact is made with extraterrestrials, it is Davy's responsibility to determine what method is to be sent back to extraterrestrials. Yeah, you know, it makes me think, though, maybe that's not a bad idea. Maybe we better start sending out our SOS is right now, at the rate we're going and how long it takes for the messages to

get out, it's probably not a bad idea. Storrs SOS. That's we're blowing up our plane at who knows how many weird messages have already been sent. So, yeah, they're gonna respond to something. But it is funny, You're right, it's a funny point that, you know, Stephen Hawking, as we are saying, you know where we are to not do this, are going to come either they're gonna come attack us and wipe us out and take our planets daughters out there sending messages. Yep, don't be silly,

dad. Hopefully he won't be able to say I told you so. You know, it was interesting that he actually participated, ye after being so public about warning against the contacting. And it's funny that this wasn't a big story for that reason, because when he said it, you know that that could happen. It was a big story. So I would think that this

is and it's a fun story. It's got the kids and everything. And you know, all these other stories lately about aliens green aliens, like they're talking about coming to help us with our ore or coming to destroy us because we're destroying the planet of issues were big news. You'd think this would be

bigger news. Well, I've got to hand it to Paul Davies. I think this was a brilliant thing for him to be involved in because it's because his workload, he gets free submissions, so he chooses the best one and goes, ah, there we go. I don't have to figure out what to say. No. Well, and he is out of the SETI group, you know, I even saw him in Shastack debate this. He is more into the medi side, which is messaging extraterrestrials physically sending messages out because

people need to remember SETI they're listening. They're not sending messages, they're just listening. But Paul Davies is more into the actual idea of sending messages, because he does believe that a more of technically evolved species is probably also more spiritually evolved or socially evolved, where they will be nice to us. They'll treat us like pets. I could be a pet. That's fine. It reminds me of the porno for Pyro song. We'd make great pets. It

allows you to be lazy, and people like to be lazy. So yeah, get bet, someone take care of everything for you. All you got to do is s be cute and giggle when you alien tickles you. That's sort of what a lot of people are in the in corporate America and the CEOs, they're basically pets. I mean, they can't take care of themselves.

They've got twenty differ secretaries and vice presidents and this and that, and they need our million dollars so they can have nice clean cages and be taken care of where people clean up after, driven around, flown around people to make their schedule for them, do their laundry, make their food. So that's what idea. The aliens need to cant and take them. Yes, these corporate they're already trained for it. Yeah, exactly. Well, it

wouldn't be a news report without talking about fireball. So I've got a fireball story. We talked about this one two weeks ago. A fireball UFO plunged to Earth on Thursday, August twenty fifth in Cusco, Peru, and according to CBS News, the object was initially suspected to be a meteorite, but new information suggests the object could have been debrised from a foreign country spacecraft. The Peruvian military has reportedly been actively searching for the object in the outskirts of

Cusco for several days, complete with helicopters and commando units. According to newside tiwy dot com, the Peruvian authorities have been warned by a certain friendly government that most likely the debris of the space truck Progress M twelve M dropped up

in the territory of the country. Progress M H twelve M was an unmann Russian spacecraft launched on August twenty fourth on a resupply mission to the International Space Station, and shortly after the launch there was a malfunction that was detected and communication with the craft was lost. Peruvian military hasn't found anything yet, so until they do, this strange object that burned through the sky is still a

mystery. But again, this story could have been updated, but I haven't seen any current information about it. But they were out in full force with their commando units looking for this thing. Well, I know the Russians said they finally figured out what went wrong with their rocket, but I don't remember seeing and I don't know if I read that whole story that they recovered the rocket right, because they couldn't find it for a period of time. And

there was also another lost rocket. There was the X what is it the name of the I forget what that one is, but they're super fast plane. No, who was the Google guy? Oh yeah, the Google guy who launched his spaceship and then they lost it. And these two incidents are creating a lot of problems right now. Yeah, two lost rockets. That's kind of scary, and it's been big, big problems for NASA because they rely on these rockets right now, these Russian rockets that did launch this progress

MDSH twelve ms into space. So they've kind of put everything on hold for now because clearly they can't rely on that until they figured out what the problem is. Yeah, it's kind of scary, and I guess that could explain all these fireball UFOs because everything being launched is getting lost and vomitting down.

Now that you mentioned it does seem like a story that is kind of behind the scenes that isn't really getting pushed also, which is that this Russian rocket had problems so they had to suspend their launches back and forth to the space station. And then there was news that NASA is thinking about and probably has start to fast track a couple of their projects so they can launch something up

there, even building a new shuttle. So I think by the behind the scenes, what we're not seeing is there are some people, you know, a little worried about this whole situation that maybe we cut too many programs and now we don't we can't you know, shuttle our astronauts back and forth. But it was really weird to see that they're even taking parts from shuttles that

they didn't build to build a new shuttle. They're talking about, right, and this could be good for our local private space company, SpaceX, I know, is close to being ready with their rockets and they do have a contract with NASA, so hopefully that's good news for them. Yeah, get some good old us of a rockets. Yeah, need to get to get

our guys home. Well. The movie Apollo eighteen tells the story of what really happened to the eighteenth Apollo mission, and while the filmmakers are calling it a documentary to create the illusion of reality, NASA is worried that viewers might accept the movie as fact. Bert Orich, NASA's liaison from Ultimedia Film and Television Collaborations, recently told the Los Angeles Times, the film is a work of fiction, and we always knew that we were minimally involved with this picture.

We never even saw a rough cut. The idea of portraying the Apollo eighteen mission as authentic is simply a marketing ploy, perhaps a bit of a Blair Witch Project strategy to generate hype. It's strange that NASA feels the need to go on the defensive. NASA's response is clearly the result of the filmmaker's marketing efforts, which have included using UFO researcher Stan Friedman as a publicity figure

for the film. Freedman has made a number of appearances to lent his opinion about whether or not the re Apollo eighteen and Apollo nineteen missions were truly scrapped, including an August fifteenth appearance on MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan show. Space dot Com reports that in press materials for the movie Friedman Is quotas are saying, people ask why why there was no Apollo eighteen mission? I ask what happened to

Apollo eighteen and Apollo nineteen. They were both paid for and astronauts were trained. What happened to these missions? And while NASA is urging moviegoers to ignore the claims of reality by filmmakers, the Los Angeles Time points out NASA realizes

that keeping the public interested in the extraterrestrial is critical to its future. Ulrich explained, it's a wonderful way to reach the public through these huge media means like feature films and television shows, and it can inspire people in an interesting way, and it can also instruct people about what space exploration is all about.

Yeah, I think typically they wouldn't mind, except for it's probably because of mostly a little bit from Blare, which but especially from forth kind couldn't think of the movie name because that caused a lot of controversy where they were claiming that you know, these abductions really happened and people were really lost, and that the newspaper out there had written about it. In fact, the newspaper I think even sued the movie company because they were making all of these

claims that weren't true and it caused all of this problem. So while NASA likes people believing in extraterrestrials, they probably want to be careful that there are probably people and there might be some people listening to this show who are getting mad and saying, what are you talking about? Forest Kind was all real? Sorry, people, it was not. None of that was real.

Of course, as we all study the abduction phenomena, it seems like, you know, there's something to this phenomena, there's something real going on. But forth Kind was not real. That found footage was not real. Those were all actors and actresses. Nothing from that movie was real at all. And you have a lot of people even to this day, believing that there was something to that. And I'm sure there are people listening to this show who think I'm wrong, but trust me, I'm not looking to it.

Yeah, just watch the credits. Those were all actors and actresses. Those weren't really University professors or real people who have had these experiences at all, even though you have the actors and the actresses at the beginning of the end acting so serious that this is real and blah blah blah. And I think that's what they're worried about, that people, unfortunately will get fulled and start to believe that, oh my gosh, look, there wasn't Apollo eighteen and

we saw it on the movie and blah blah. And they just want to be clear. It's cool to watch these movies and have fun and believe in etis because we want you to pay us to go find Eteth. But don't think that this movie is real, because it's not. NASA's had some interesting marketing efforts lately. You can't trust You can't trust marketers anyway. I trust marketers, select marketers, I trust myself. I trust our colleagues. We have a wonderful marketer here who would like to be s u yeah, if

they could. You're so mean to be aware of marketers, is all I'm saying. Because I've worked with marketing departments my whole career, and yeah, they will often have you say things they like to stretch the truth. It depends on who they are, what they're marketing, and what their ethics are like. Hello, marketing in America in twenty twelve is something that is not trustworthy. You're right, I will no longer trust Maureen. Don't say I didn't say that, Yes, you did. It came straight out of your

mouth in trouble. We have this on video and you can see it came out of your mouth. Your mouth, my friend, I was interpreting what you were saying. I tried to give you an out and you didn't take the out. Okay, what do you have another piece of news? You'd like me to move on? Yeah, let's do that well for Army Intelligence Officer John Alexander was recently interviewed by George Napp on eight News Now in Las

Vegas, Nevada. Alexander is vocal about his belief in UFOs. As he stated to NAP, UFOs are real, and I'm talking about physical reality. There are craft that are seen balls of light flitting around to craft, some of them a mile and a half across. They show up on radar and are really here. In his new book UFOs Myths, Conspiracies and Realities, Alexander's skeptical nature is apparent. He doesn't believe the government has covered up knowledge

about UFOs of you that has garnered scorn from some UFO believers. Alexander told Nap the true believers are even more hostel than the skeptics. If you don't believe their particular brand, whatever that is, you become the enemy. You've got to buy every bit of it. Otherwise you are part of the cover

up and blah blah blah. Some of this hostility was displayed in February at the International UFO Congress, which Alexander was a speaker, and we've got a video up on our YouTube channel that shows a little bit of kind of attacking mister Alexander. I think that he likes to play the martyrs though, but

he's not as much of a martyr as he thinks. A lot of the comments on that video are that, you know, they believe that he has something to what he's saying, and they like and appreciate what he's saying. And so there are a lot of people, I know, there's a lot of our listeners who appreciated the show when he was on, and think that we've gotten a lot of feedback that there is a good a bigger portion of this community that appreciate what he's saying and have viewpoints more similar to his and

than he believes. I think he gets a bad rap, I really do. I mean, I certainly enjoy his viewpoints, and I think he's got a good book. So yeah, it's just if you go speak at a conference where you know it's mostly metaphysical and stuff, and people are really metaphysical and conspiracy you know, of course, then that's going to be a group of type of people who are not going to be as open to what you're

saying. But what's interesting is, especially at our conference, sure there were some people that were really upset for him saying things like the government doesn't know much about UFOs and stuff, but there were a lot of people who really appreciated and believe what he had to say too. Yeah, that's true. And you've read his book. Now, I haven't read the whole thing.

I've read pieces and parts. And I think that when you write a book, you need to follow in the suit of UFO book names and called UFOs colon and then have the name after it. Yeah, UFOs colon, sweet exclamation mark. I think you have to have three things, a series of commas, really really sweet. There you go, You've got it. But in his book, you know, we did print one of the chapters in his book. It was actually the epilogue, and his epilogue I think it's

one of the best things it's written in this field. It was really good because it talked about just how we need to tackle this this subject to be taken serious and to move it on to the next level, which is to get more of the conventional science and stuff like that interested and participating in the field. And so I thought what he wrote in that chapter especially is really really good. Agreed, and you know, let up on John Alexander and

actually read his book and hear what he has to say. He makes a lot of sense. Yeah, well, all hunter, this is somewhere you and I have to go. Spaceport America, the world's first commercial spaceport, is nearing completion. David Wilson, head of Spaceport America's media relations, recently told space dot Com the spaceport Phase one construction work is now ninety percent done

and is on schedule to be done by the end of twenty eleven. The spaceport occupies eighteen hundred acres of desert land, approximately forty five miles north of Las Crucis, New Mexico, and it is the world headquarters for the space tourism company Virgin Galactic. Construction has moved quickly since the groundbreaking ceremony on June nineteen, two thousand and nine. According to Wilson, the first phase of construction is made up of the spaceport's large runway, which is completed, the

terminal hangar facility. The Virgin Galactic will use the internal roads, fencing, electrical system, water sewer systems, and the dome looking space Observation Center. Space two will include the final buildout of the vertical launch complex facility, the visitor welcome centers in the neighboring towns of Truth or Consequence, and Hatch visitor area on the main spaceport campus. The southern road from Interstate I twenty five

to the spaceport is also part of Phase two construction. According to space dot Com, Phase two is scheduled to be completed in twenty thirteen, making the spaceport fully operational. The completion of phase one construction of the spaceport is good news for Virgin Galactic because they plan to begin launching their commercial space flights in twenty thirteen, so it's definitely going to be on time for them, and they are leading the charge making spaceflight more attainable for us. All it's so

cool looking at looks the building looks like a manta ray fish. It does, and I love manta ray fish. It looks super cool. I'm really excited about it. And you know what I just thought of since it's in New Mexico and it's near Hatches where it's famous for their chili chili and red chili. So being where it's at, when you go there to the visitor center, and I'm guessing that visitor center is going to be really busy. They might be making as much money on that visitors or is anything else.

I think there's going to be so many people visiting there because it's so cool and you know, people flying up into space. But when you go out at a visitor center on the road, you'll probably be able to buy people roasting chili. The road will be lined with paints. Yes, there'll be beef jerky people selling that kind of stuff because you know, people sell stuff on the street like crazy in that part of town. You know that that

part of us. A jerky company that has their shop in Nevada on the way to Area fifty one, they should open up a second location over by the spaceport. Yeah, that's a good idea. Good. I wonder if a little city will build up around the spaceport. It's definitely gonna build up. I think it'll take time, but there's definitely gonna be a lot of build up around there. There's nothing there now, but there will be.

Yeah, And it's not far from Las Cruise. It's really it's a great vacation for spacenuts because you can go there and then you can go to Alamo Gordo and White Sands. And when you drive from Las Crusis to Alamogordo, it's a lot of fun because you're driving for space geeks, you know, because you're driving through the White Sands missile range and it's the only road that really goes kind of in the middle of it. So to the right and

the left you have all of these crazy buildings and projects going on. You see signs like high powered laser testing and small missile testing, large missile testing, and then there's a museum there with a lot of rockets that's in the White Sands, And when you get to Alamogordo there's another cool, huge museum with rockets A V two stuff like that. So really for space people, it's a lot of fun. And then you're just a few hours away from

Roswell. If you even wanted to do that, now you're getting crazy. Yep, well we'll have to do it. I'm excited. It's getting close to being done. We need to go check it out. Yep. And last, but not least, stronomers announced today the discovery of fifty planets, including one super Earth that may contain water and be in the habitable zone.

According to the Washington Post, astronomers have not determined whether the new super Earth is rocky like Earth or grassy like Jupiter, let alone whether it has an atmosphere. They said grassy, but I meant gassy. No, gassy is a funny word. Yeah, yep. But this new super Earth is three point five times the massive Earth, and unlike our wonderful planets we've talked about in the around the star Gliza five eighty one, this one doesn't have nearly

as fun of a name that the super Earth. A star is called HD eight. And so the planet's name is fifty five twelve B. Not anymore. Now it's super Earth. Yeah. I think from now on it'll be known as super Earth. Put saying Gleaza five eighty one G is kind of crazy. Doesn't have a cool name like Jupiter. But this is even worse HD eight fifty five twelve B. Anti climactic. When you say we found a super Earth, it's called HD eight fifty five twelve B. Yeah,

not anymore. I'm gonna call it super Earth. Please do to those people, poor people. Then if there's people living there, then they are super earthlings. Well he just blew my mind. Yeah, all one hundred. That is it for the news for today. Remember to check out these stories and more at open Minds TV, your source for UFO related news. I'm Jason McLellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to wall one hundred. All right, thank you, Jason. A couple other

stories that you will find at Open Minds that TV. Because remember you can find the UFO news that we just talked about there as well. But Michael Schratt put up a story with some sketches from some strange UFOs over Idaho and Michigan. And one of the cool sketches these are mostly cases you know that are historic, is of this domed disc with a see through dome and you

can see a couple of creatures under it. It's kind of a neat sketch, very interesting, especially if this is a true account of something someone experienced. So there are some sketches of that. A very controversial post that we put up opinion post from Bryce Zabel, who, among other things, wrote with Richard Dolan ad After Disclosure. We've had him on the show quite a

few times. He also was a producer and writer for the Dark Sky television series, which was all about aliens and MG twelve and all of that stuff. So he's really into this issue and working on several projects. He also was in charge of the Academy during the whole nine to eleven thing, and I mean the Academy wards, so he was in charge of making the decision to delay the Academy Awards not once but twice when nine to eleven happened. Well, he and Nick Pope, who we've talked about, who is the

British He worked for the British Ministry of defense studying UFOs. They wrote a story together about nine to eleven, how nine to eleven and UFOs don't mix, and essentially talking about how there are two separate issues that we need to keep separate, and they make their argument to this point, and it's been very controversial. I unfortunately have gotten on a couple of email lists where people are emailing back and forth their opinions on all lists and blah blah blah,

which is fine. You know, I don't mean to say that they can't have their own opinions, but that's wonderful that they have their own opinions, but go share them in like a forum that's talking about this. Why do I get on this list? But anyway, a lot of people talking back and forth. You can check that out and and you can also check it out on our Facebook and that's where you can put some comments and put in your own opinion there to see what you think. So that was great.

Bryce asked us if we can share that because he's a big fan of us, as we are a big fan of him and Nick Pope. So there's some great guys, and you know, his opinion is actually different than Richard Dolan's and so Richard shared his opinions on their website on this story, which is fine. You know. That's one thing that we have to learn is

that it's okay to have varying opinions. We all have different opinions, and I think that's one of the great things about the evolution of this field is that as researchers, we all get to spend a lot more time We've been spending years with each other, and we can like each other as people. We can talk civilly and have differing opinions. That's the way it goes.

Just like I talked about with Sess Shastak and Paul Davies having differing opinions, they share their different opinions and move on, but they're still good buddies and work together. And so that's what we need to do too, because although not all of us share the same opinions on billy Meyer, we can still be buddies and work together. So those are some of the stories you'll see

up there. You'll also see a story that got quite a bit of link our play and or people were linking to it and actually Coast to Coast put it on their page. R Antonio wrote a tribute to some UFO researchers and Fortians who have died recently. And if you're not sure about what a Fortian is, which a lot of people new er to this field aren't, it's essentially someone who studies the paranormal. One of the first paranormal researchers was Charles

Fort and he kind of was a real pioneer in the field. So a lot of people who study different things in the paranormal called themselves Fortian. And there's a whole Fortian society forty in Times magazine, which is great online. So that's what that is. And some of the people who have done this sort of research has passed away. Sort of alarming how many people have passed away. Now, these are people who have gotten older, and a lot

of the researchers we've talked about this a lot on this show. A lot of the famous researchers, the people who have done a lot of work in this field are passing away. They're getting older, they're getting to that age. So you can read about those people on our website as well, So some very great stories. You'll learn a lot, you'll get educated, and you'll keep up to speed on the latest and greatest in eufology, So go check out Openminds dot tv. Moving on to the most fun part of the

show, Well, there's the whole show's fun. But moving on to our interview for today, which is Jason McClellan. I've had the pleasure of watching his meteoric rise to the upper echelon of ufology and just the show period of a couple of years as being the news correspondent here at Open Minds and also writing for Open Minds magazine. He's looking at me funny because he's skeptical. But you know, people love Jason. They wouldn't make him put him in

a cartoon if they didn't love Jason. So I am really excited to talk about what I think was some great work on the Billy Meyer case. And thank you for coming all the way from San Diego. He goes to San Diego every other weekend, it seems not that often. I don't blame you. When it's burning hot out here, well, the weather's finally finally dropped

here. It's tolerable here, finally in the nineties. So I guess to start off with, before you started investigating Billy Meyer, how did you feel about the well, the billy Meyer case is certainly something that it seems everybody

who has done any sort of research into UFOs comes across. I mean, it's it's one of the most well known, and even that calling it well known is kind of interesting because a lot of people know of Billy Meyer and they know bits and pieces, and that's certainly what I That's the position I

was in as well. You know, I knew that there was this guy, this one armed guy in Switzerland who had these amazing UFO photographs and he talked with extraterrestrials, and that's pretty much the extent of what I knew.

And I had heard many things from different people. You know, we were fortunate enough to have frequent conversations with Wendell Stevens, and you know, so talking with people like him who were personally involved in researching the billy Meyer case, hear stories from him, You hear stories from absolutely everybody, and it seemed that everybody seemed to have I won't say a different piece of the puzzle,

but they definitely had different details to the story. And that's what I found fascinating most of all, was that everybody seemed to have parts of the same story, but parts of a different story as well. See. I think that's a great way to put it, because when I have you know, usually most cases I try to really thoroughly investigate, but with Billy Meyer, I hadn't really thoroughly. What I thoroughly read were his communications with extraterrestrials.

And although I found his pictures very compelling and the background around his picture is very compelling, his communications I actually didn't like very much. I thought they started to get kind of silly, where he's just saying, well, listen, this is true, right Meyer, That's true? And I mean really later on in these things, and I read tons of them, That's how a lot of this went, and I gave up on reading those, and I kind of put him in the gray basket and thought, you know,

those pictures are really interesting. They're very great hoax as if there were hoaxes at all, and moved on from there. But from reading your story, I'm looking at all the different stuff. I was a little disappointed in what I had investigated because the people I had looked into who investigated the Billy Meyer piece only present little chunks, little pieces here and there, as opposed to having an overall view Mike your story, I think it's pretty good for

as much as you can do in four or five pages. Uh, you know, an overall view of I'm biased beyond what the deal is. And in that overall view, I mean, it still barely scratches the surface of the whole Billy Meyer story. There's so much there, and most of it. I think the majority of people who know the Billy Meyer story have no idea that these other elements to the story exist. And what I you know, with my initial introduction to Billy Meyer and before I began my in depth

research, you know one thing I could definitely tell. I mean, you can't escape it. Billy Meyer case is, without a doubt, the most polarizing case in eupology. You mentioned that at the beginning of the show. I mean, people either believe Billy Meyer or they don't. There's no gray with most people. I mean, you have these very strong opinions either way. Yeah, and I'm telling you, you know, when I would have Michael Horner on the show, I think I've only had him one so when

I refer to him, people get really upset. I can't believe you're having him. Billy Meyer, so pull that. I get a lot of that, but of course the opposite's true too. Of all these people, Oh that's the best case ever. And you know people who believe like Michael Horne, and how could you ignore this case? But I guess getting into it, let's go historical in his life and how he started, because he's got an interesting background, no doubt. So I guess like to start there,

because you know, I thought it was a scorpion. You told me it was a fantom. He had this nickname because he was this kind of rogue ronan type of international soldier or something. How would you explain that. I forget a description I saw, and I forget whose description this is, but they described him during that time is like a mixture between Indiana Jones and Han

Solo and somebody else. And this is like the fifties or sixties, uh, I believe so, yes, yep, yeah, it's shortly after his childhood when he went on his widespread journeys traveling through Africa and Asia and Europe. And he you know, those details are are somewhat gray, they're differing

stories. But apparently he had a lot of odd jobs during this time, and he worked for the French Foreign Legion, and he was also sort of a bounty hunter basically where he would hunt these fugitives and hold them until they were picked up by whoever was supposed to pick them up. But yeah, he actually wrote about these experiences too. And I don't read German, and I believe the book is in German, but he actually has a book about

that time in his life called The Phantom. What about then, Saddam Hussein. There's a story where he met Saddam Hussein, right there is And I don't remember the details of that story. I know he met a lot of people and he's talked about this a lot. And it was also during this

period when he lost his arm in a bus accident. And that happened when a drunk bus driver, not the bus he was in, but a separate bus was coming at them with a drunk us driver crashed into Billy's bus and he was thrown from the bus and his arm was was hurt so badly it had to be amputated above his left elbow. He's got use but doesn't have the use of an elbow, so we can't have an attachment or anything.

But that happened during that time, and he also met his wife during that time in Greece, Kelly Opey, I think, is how he pronounces it. I would call it calliope because that's from my wife. Is that's how she would want me to call it from Greece. But but yeah, he met his wife then and then they moved back to Switzerland. Now, some of these stories, like the Saddam one, there's not much detail correct, but like what sort of references were there that had some of this old stuff.

A lot of this stuff comes from his own writings and you know, translations of his writing, so those details, it's difficult to know the accuracy of them because you know they're second and third hand. But at least a lot of their research you did do, though, was his writings or alleged stuff from its stuff from his we throw his own mouth, yes, right, which I think is the most important because I think people kind of cherry pick exactly, you know, And but to follow the full story you need

to get to the root. And again with the problem with this, with people having their own versions of the story, you're having only bits and pieces here and there. Focusing on one aspect of Billy Meyer's life, it's a big problem, and it's a parent into the research. I mean, even some of the biggest Billy Meyer researchers. You read their books and they have

conflicting information, so it makes determining the truth very difficult. About when was it he started having his and how did this come about, or how did that people start knowing about his communications and or in pictures. Well, how it started for him was when he was five years old. And again, you know, I don't know if it's translated or problems with these stories staying consistent, but a lot of the contacts are voices in his head, so

they're telepathic communication, not actual physic physical communication. But his first I believe, was when he was five years old and an extraterrestrial came in a pear shaped UFO and invited him aboard, and he went for a ride on a ufo at the age of five. So that's when his contacts really started. When he started making it known to people was in the seventies, and that's when he decided to form a group to basically discuss UFOs and other things,

and then he started to tell them exactly. That's when he first revealed to this group that I've been hanging out with extraterrestrials and I've got proof. Yep. Was it the beginning of when he started the group or not until later on? I don't know how much time, but it seemed like that's sort

of the purpose that the group was founded for. And another reason behind this group was that when Meyer was doing his worldly travels, he reportedly joined every religion in Europe, in Africa, in Asia and didn't find any of them too that they were suitable for him, so he basically started one that had his own ideas. So was it a religion that he started or was attempting

to that's debatable. Kind of a religious it's it's debatable. Yes, that's another issue that causes a lot of problem and a lot of debate, But that's basically what it is. It's it's a group with shared ideas and wisdom passed on to him from extraterrestrials, So I would call it a religion. And he already had photographs at this point, right, or at least he

shared these with people at this point. From what I've been able to determine, it was when this group was founded that he started coming forward with the photos I see, and so the photos at that time they were there. Other witnesses, not at that time, not at that time. It's members of this group who later have come forward and said that they were witnesses. His wife is one of those people. But again later in time, after his wife divorced him, she's been quoted in an interview is saying that he

made it all up. So what did she say she saw back then? I don't remember, I don't I don't know her her actual statements of what she saw, Okay, but later on she said she made all that up and Billy made up right. And because she said two different things, I mean, that is a flag in itself. I mean, you don't know which of her stories you can trust. So so when was it then? He also came across like a laser gun or something. Yeah, he was.

He claims he was left a laser gun by one of these extraterrestrials. And this is another one of the stories in the billiy Meyer saga that has conflicting details to it. One of the stories says that the extraterrestrial left this laser gun with him and told him not to use it and they would be back for it. And Meyer was tempted and he couldn't resist, so he had to try it out. He pulled the trigger and zapped it through this tree. And another version of the story says that he was allowed to shoot

the weapon as the demonstration of the weapon. But we've got pictures of that in the article that's in the magazine. And Wendell Stevens went and looked at this tree, and what he noticed was that there, you know, clearly burn marks on some leaves sort of in the direction going towards this tree, and burn marks around the hole. But the inside of that hole had no no indication of being burned at all. What were the different versions of this,

I mean, what were the sources of those different versions? One of the sources is Wendell Stevens book Contact, which one is that it's UFO contacts of the plates, and the other I believe is Guido Moose Mooseburgers and yet they fly okay. And who were the first investigators or at least American I don't know, Well, there there were there were a few people who had

been looking into it, you know, since since Wire announced it. Uh so uderl researcher lose intag I don't know how to say her name, but she's the one who came to the US to present the story to Wendell Stevens. And when Wendell saw the photographs she presented to him, he was blown

away and thought they were the most incredible UFO photos he'd ever seen. And remember this is Wendell Stevens who had pretty much the largest private UFO photo collection, So I mean, he'd seen decades worth of photos already by the time the Meyer photos were presented to him. So he was so blown away that he decided to go over to Switzerland and investigate himself. So he and Lee and Brett Elders were probably the biggest investigators, initial investigators of the Meyer story.

Do you know when Wendell started his investigation, I don't know the date. Now do you know about when it was in the seventies? Uh huh. The reason I asked, just because seventies had so many UFO sidings that had started that or that were going on, because that was a big wave in the seventies. So he had seen a lot of UFO photos yeah, at that time, so that would be interesting. Now, one of the things that you watch were all of the investigations. Like some of the videos

and stuff that the Elders and Wendell had put together. Those are kind of fun videos. I like, they're very I don't know, it's like you're watching an old TBS special. It's kind of fun. But this was a very well done documentary documenting that that very trip there, you know, one of their investigations over there where they actually go to c. Billy Meyer and talk to him and walk through the various locations where Meyer took the photos.

And what year was? Do you remember about what year that documentary was. I don't remember the date on that, and that was It's an amazing production. I mean, they actually have aerial shots showing the cars drive by. But that now that you mentioned, that trip was actually documented very well in a book by Gary Kinder called Light Years, And this book talks about the

investigation that was shown in the documentary. And I believe the documentary is just called Contact the Billy Meyer Story. But this is the book that the Elders

actually recommend it that I read, because it does document their investigation. And I found that book kind of interesting in itself because it seems to kind of glamorize Billy Meyer, not not really glamorized, but hype him up a lot as this larger than life character to where he sort of appears out of nowhere and can see through fog and automatically know where he's going, and just kind of presents them as being in awe of this strange person who silently crept up

beside them and they had no idea he was there, and stuff like this. Yeah, So that kinder book you also said Wendell was, of course a big source for you. Absolutely, so were the Elders. This Musburger you said he was a big source. Officer, Yes, tell me about him. I don't know much about him as an individual. He spent a lot of time with Billy. He was even a part of the Figure Society, Billy's group there that he created, and I believe he still is.

So he had a lot of firsthand experience there and he actually witnessed things while he was there. So, and then who else was that Some of the other big sources for you, Well, there's Jim Dilatoso, who was responsible for for helping to get some of the metal testing. Billy Meyer had given Wendell some some metal samples that he claimed were given to him by the ex terrestrials. So Wendel and uh Jim Deltoso together facilitated getting this metal tested.

So there were some of some of Jim's findings there that were a good source. But you know, I've got to say that, even though I don't don't like looking a lot at what harsh skeptics have to say, cal k Corp has a lot of information about the Meyer case. And I know Michael Horn and other Myer supporters dismiss absolutely everything that cal Corp says. Calcorp has actually done one of the best in depth research studies into the whole Meyer case.

And I can't confirm this one, but according the Corp, he actually went under cover and became a member of the fig Us Society and went over there solely for the purpose of finding out if this guy was a real deal

or not. So we'll talk about him somewhere too. But those metals, just getting back to that, just since you brought those up, you know, what were the findings with those metals then again mixed and so according to Gluedo Musburger's book, and yet they fly the testing that was done by a metal or just found the metals to be simple cooking pot metal, metal that

would be used to make toy soldiers or something like that. And then a second person tested the metals, and that was a chemist, and the chemists found them to be very interesting and possibly not from this world. And the interesting thing about this is kal Korf, who we just mentioned, contacted these people and the chemist told him that his findings were completely misrepresented in Wendell Stevens's

book and those aren't the findings that he found at all. And Jim Delotoso has an explanation for that, saying that the places that they got the metals tested and the photos tested, they did so under strict confidentiality agreements and understandings that if anybody contacted them about doing these tests, they were supposed to say that they had no knowledge of Billy Meyer, They had no idea what you're talking about. So you know again that you can take that for what it

is. You know, it seems it's unconclusive, and it's you know, it gives the perfect out, you know, obviously, because you know it's up to what you believe. Obviously, you go to somebody who didn't do a test, they're going to say I didn't do a test. So if you say, oh, that's because we told them to say that, you know, you have no idea. Yeah, well, and you would think you would need to produce some paperwork to prove that right, that you had

this agreement, because otherwise there's no proof. And especially when people are communicating, they forget I you know, definitely talked with people where they tell me a bit of information and then I check with the source, and the sources like, well, they weren't supposed to tell you that, And then you get back with the other person they're like, well, I don't remember them ever telling me. I didn't have to I wasn't supposed to do it.

Doesn't say that in any emails where people just have a misunderstanding, and unless it's written, you know, I'm very clear you can't really expect people to be held to that sort of thing. And I'm certainly not saying that that evidence that documentation doesn't exist, right, I'm just saying I haven't seen it. Yeah, well I'm not. Yeah, just to say that that it's hard to say. Just that part's inconclusive as well, what I'm saying,

right, And it would be nice to see that documentation it did. Is there any such I mean I just said I have no idea it could exist, but not to my knowledge. Yeah, So what are some of the other then, like criticisms of corps work that didn't maybe hold for you? I mean, well, you know there, why would you say that he was in depth and he was a more accurate than maybe they accused him of

being. Well, one of the the initial criticisms that get thrown at people who speak against Billy Meyer is it, well, you you didn't actually go there, You didn't meet him, So how can you tell what kind of research is sitting and looking on a computer. You have to actually go there and meet Billy. And that's something that CORP did on more than one occasion, which is a still argument anyway. I mean, you don't need to meet someone in order to figure out whether there's a truth or not to something.

In fact, I would argue that in some investigations it's better not to because then you're not tainted, especially someone like me, because I liked people, and that makes me biased when I met someone because I'm like, you know, I really like that guy. But you still have to look at the evidence, and the evidence speaks for itself. And speaking of Michael Horne, I want to talk about Michael Horn for a minute. I will say that if you want to know anything, any any strong details about a particular

area of the Billy Meyer case, he's the guy to ask. Man. I mean, he he can recite to you to the to the word stuff that Meyer has said, things that have been told to him. You know, he knows every single detail. So he's a good person to come back to any question or any attack or anything. He's got an answer for everything. And I've only I don't know him that well, but I know that

he isn't just a blind believer. You know, he started out pretty skeptical himself, but he's been satisfied and he knows that not every answer is a perfect answer and that, you know, things could be more clear, and he would like him to be. But he just presents the information he has and he does a very good job at doing that. And for some reason he well I know the reason, but he and kal Khorf are always butting heads, and it's because Korp is a thorn in his side, obviously.

But one thing they haven't agreed on is the fact that someone has been able to reproduce the Meyer photos and not something that Horne has stated for a long time that till this day, nobody's been able to reproduce the Meyer photos, and a gentleman by the name of Phil Langdon has done what I think is a remarkable job at recreating the photos. And again, I mean it is the same premises is the factor faked television show on Sci Fi. Just because

you can recreate it doesn't mean that it's not true. But at the same time, you don't need to say that they haven't been reproduced when they have been reproduced. Some of these are fantastic. I mean the wedding cake UFO. If you have seen Meyer photos, you've most likely seen the wedding cake UFO. It's got these balls all around it and looks very gaudy. That's

one. And Phil Langdon has been able to reproduce pretty much every single photo, and the wedding cake photo is one that he's done a really good job on and something that people thought nobody would be able to do because it's so bizarre and different looking. But you know, he's done a great job recreating these photos. And he's also been able to reproduce sounds that Meyer recorded, claiming that they're from a spaceship, a beam ship, and he determined that

it was fishing line strung a very long distance. The wind going against that fishing line created this bizarre resonance and it was identical to the sound. But he's done a fantastic job at recreating some of this thing, these things, and just because he recreates them doesn't mean that what's in the photos is not authentic, or what's on the tape is not authentic. But he's been able

to reproduce something that is just like it see. And that was a big sticking point for me, is that I agreed with Horn and you know, by listening to him a lot too, but that no one had recreated the photos, and I hadn't seen any good recreations. But when I was pointed to these recreations, they are very good. I mean, they really do recreate, which I remarkable. They totally recreate those pictures, and that was a big deal. But getting to the pictures again, though, like you

said, just because the pictures recreated doesn't mean that it's not real. I mean, and that happens a lot because especially these days, you can recreate practically anything with special effects and stuff like that. However, what really throws a whole wrench in the whole system with the pictures is this idea that you have in the story about Billy Meyer saying his pictures were replaced. Yes,

and so what is that story will? I think it's mostly originated most people, well, many people may know the controversy behind the photos that Meyer alleged were of two extraterrestrials Asquet and Europe, aboard one of their beamships, and skeptics later were able to well, they pointed out that this was a still photo of a television screen of a group from the Dean Martin Variety Show. And when you see the pictures you can tell that that's pretty much the case.

And in fact, those two women have been made aware of this, and they later said, yeah, that's us. And it's funny because in one of these in the picture, that woman has her hair kind of curled I guess by sideburns, a little curled up. And that's a funny point that some people had latched onto and used as a description of these extraterrestrials, saying that they looked identical to earthlings. What had elongated ear lobes, and this woman who was in the photo and was identified later said, yeah,

I used to curl my hair like that. It's just her hair that's curled. But anyway, so what came from this was Meyer said that one of the extraterrestrials informed him in nineteen ninety eight that or it might have been sooner than that, but he was informed by the extraterrestrial that there were American doubles for Asquet and Nera living in the United States, and that his photos had

been replaced by the men in Black. The men in Black had located these American doubles and they took a picture, and they took Meyer's film and swapped it out. So when Meyer got the film, he didn't know it had been swapped out. But in fact, what the pictures we see now are of those American doubles. But was this also true for some of the UFO

pictures exactly. That's what he later claimed as well in a letter that was on the FIGU website, saying that he was informed that the Men in Black had done this with a lot of his photos, a lot of his earlier photos, I believe, is how he stated it, and I don't know what time period that quantifies, but he said that again, the men in Black had been taking his film and then recreating his photographs and slipping them back

in. So Meyer had no knowledge of it, but the photos that he had and was showing that everybody were actual recreations by the men in Black. And this is a tough one too, because this, like you said, is on the FIGU website. This comes from his mouth, right, and now this is a fact that's left out by a lot of people. Yeah, I've never heard Michael Horn talk about this. I think I've seen him mention it, but I don't remember how he responds to it. And that's

certainly a good question for him and some of these other people. Wendall never talked about that, right. In fact, Wendell talks about the pictures being he doesn't mention that when he talks about the pictures when we've talked to him, and in fact, he did talk about the pictures him not being able to get originals, right, nobody has originals, not even Meyer. And that's another thing that you know, Meyer says that the originals were taken back

by the extraterrestrials. So he doesn't have originals. When Wendell was there, the best he could get was he got some second generation, but most were up through six generation negatives. And those are the those are the prints that were all this testing was done on. Yeah, it's like six generation images.

See. And that's really important to me because if the extraterrestrials took the originals, then I'm sorry Michael Horn and I'm sorry Billy Meyer, but that would indicate that either that, if this story is true, that the extraterrestrials didn't want him to have evidence to prove that his stuff was real. Right, So really they can't blame anybody for doubting the story, but the extraterrestrials

should that be true. But of course it always throws It also throws a wrench because it's it makes it harder for us Earthlings to buy that he doesn't have the originals because the aliens took him away. That's really difficult for me, and especially because you know, I remember the first time you told me about that. I'm like, well, where did this come from? And it comes from Billy Meyer's mouth? You know, that's that's a stretch to

believe. And it's something that shouldn't be left out. You know, it's an important detail, and it's something that that should be addressed. You know, it needs to be answered, and and I don't know, I'm sure, I'm sure Billy Meyer has has responded to it, but you know his responses are, this is what they told me, Yeah, the alien and just took it. Where did you run across at at first across the letter or that that letter existed? Oh, that was the figure? So you

found that? So what was it like when you discovered that it was? You know, it's amazing that you don't hear more people talking about it. It kind of gets blown off. But that's that's a real major, major piece of the puzzle there. It raises serious questions about everything. Yeah, did I mean did Carl Korp talk about that? Yes? What about some of these others? But keep in mind that most, yeah, the strong majority of the research that's been done on the Billy Meyer case is pre nineteen

ninety eight. Yeah, and that's when most of this stuff has come out. Oh gotcha. Even Leah, the Elders, you know, haven't haven't kept up to date on the recent happenings with Billy Meyer. They had said that that you know, for years, they haven't looked into it. Okay, so there aren't any books with this information because people haven't put out recent books about Billy Meyer. What about Dala Toso, Like you talked to him, did he mention that or did you mention that to him at all?

No? I haven't asked him about that at all. Yeah, just curious because you know, I mean, this is a big thing that people have to answer. Yeah, and it'd be great to hear from Jim because you know, like I said, he was he was primarily responsible for organizing all of this testing of the photos and of the metal. And you know, he was able to get into some pretty big laboratories according to him, uh

to do this testing, know, JPL and different big labs. So you know, they claim that they found these photos to be authentic, but you know, according to Meyer, they're not. So who knows. Yeah. So, and that's the thing. And I know Jim, and you know, Jim's a great guy. Yeah, he's a nice guy. And he doesn't like really putting down a solid opinion. He's never got a solid,

solid opinion. Which I don't blame him, because there's a lot of things I don't have a solid opinion on either, but there's lots of times where I ask him, well, what about this evidence that kind of shits some doubt on that, Yeah, you're right at this shud chout. What about this evidence that seems to me that that's real? Yeah, that doesn't seem like maybe it's real. So I know how he is. He's like the rest of us, just trying our best to look for answers and stuff.

So I can see that. But this is definitely one I think will be interesting for Michael Horne, because I mean, that's that's a big issue right there. Otherwise I don't know that for me. That for me, really kind of throws this whole thing out of the gray basket to the highly skeptical. Probably I'm not a that coupled with that the pictures can be faked is to me kind of very bad or the Billy Myer kids, right, And

it makes me feel very skeptical. You know. It's funny the the excuses that did people throw out, you know, the reasons why these photos couldn't be hoaxed. You know, a one armed man couldn't do that, but he did a lot of things and does a lot of things with his one arm. It's not really a limitation for him. He had this figure group going. There were plenty of people all the time around him. He had children, he had a wife, you know, he wasn't alone, so

there were people who could help him. And he did, in fact create models of these ships. He admitted to attempting to create models of these beam ships and photograph them. You know, there's a story of the the photos being found burned in a trash can, and they're conflicting stories about that too.

But he actually did create models of the ships, and that's from his mouth, yes, And there the differing stories are that one says that the model or a model was actually left with him by one of the extraterrestrials, a model of her beamship so he could try to photograph it. Yeah, and Meyer didn't like the outcome of the photos, so he threw them away. Yeah, which is all pretty damning stop. I mean, and here

again it's it's stuff you don't care about models being made. I'm making this list for Michael Horne, if you know, he's got to answer these questions, if he because these are tough questions to answer. I'm sorry, you know, they're they're for me too difficult. So were there other you know, big red flags where stuff like the models is definitely one of them, the one you brought up that you ran across that were like, hey, I never you know, you don't care about this much. Why don't we

hear about this. It's just a lot of the little details that are left out, you know. Again, Meyer is painted as this poor old farmer. But you know this, this figure group is very active. They've got this big sem Yazi center there. It's very big, and these are basically dues paying members. It's like a tithe or something that required to pay. Yeah, and it's a big money. But he's also a prolific writer. And this guy writes and he supposedly types eighty words a minute but with his

one hand. But he he's written tons of books and these books are out. Like I said, he's got a book about his life is the Phantom, And he's got these books with word for word interactions with the extraterrestrials. And he's got lots of books and keeps very, very active. So I mean, there's a lot more to Billy Meyer than a lot of people understand. Yeah, And I think that's the problem is that we hear a lot

of the parts that I wasn't aware of. And I can see why now is what he said himself comes out of his mouth, because I think we have a lot of people, you know, I read this book recently and I did a review on the magazine kind of a lukewarm review honestly of this book Mirage Men by Pilkington, and I was a little he I taken aback by you know there he seemed to have his opinion set. But he has some really good points on some things in this field that we can't forget.

And one of those is cognitive dissonance, which was a term that was created when these like doomsday groups would say, oh, the world's going to end in nineteen forty two, and then the world wouldn't end, and they're like, oh, the world you know, we've seen this before. The world didn't end because of this and that, and it's probably going to end later. So in other words, they were willing when they were faced with and them being wrong or the truth not being what they were told it was,

they would in their mind justify that and change the story. So they can keep believing their belief system. And you know, it seems in this there's a case of people saying, well, what Billy Meyer said was this, and this is what he meant, and here's his story. Let me tell you Billy Meyer's story, because you know he and not letting us know that

he's already told his story. It's just that his story. I'm sorry with the pictures supposedly being replaced by aliens, the models supposedly one of them given to him by an alien, and then him not liking the pictures he took of it so Burningham. And then third, I already had a problem with this laser gun because you guys will be able to see the picture in the

magazine, the laser gun looks absolutely ridiculous. And that these guys gave him a laser gun and then later took it away because you know they didn't want him to play with it. You know, that was already an issue. But now this is that that's Those are my three strikes. You're out right there, So I really, you know, and I'm definitely willing to go on the record and say I don't you know, I love the pictures and I always will I'm gonna hang one up on my wall because I love his

pictures. He definitely created some very pretty pictures. But yeah, unfortunately, I don't think I believe in the Billy Meyer case anymore. I have so many problems with it. And you know, I am. I certainly believe that he may have had contact, he may have seen something, he may have you know, who knows. But you know, this whole story just sort of falls apart the deeper you go. Yeah, but I will say Michael Horn is actually visiting Billy Meyer again very soon, so it'll be interesting

to hear what new revelations he has from Billy Now. I know a lot of a lot of stuff that's being pushed from Billy now or his predictions. Yeah, and that's really what Michael Horn's big. He hangs his hat on as these predictions that he says come true. But those are always really difficult because when you're you know, predicting a kajillion things, you're sure you're going

to be right here and there. You know, if I said there's going to be an earthquake this month and it's going to be bad, you know, any earthquake can be determined as bad and then of course, the worse it is, the more I seem like an incredible prophet, right, But I guess to end on a sort of a positive note, and we'll see

what you think about. One thing that I am impressed by and I think is interesting and lend that maybe he has seen UFOs before in his life, is the UFO that he witnessed with this lady in India who's now a diplomat, I mean, and I and there's a photograph of that, and that seems different than his other photos, right, And she's such a credible witness, And I do find that, you know, interesting, and maybe that is a legitimate picture, right, Yeah, it could be, And it

definitely does look a lot different from his other photos. Yeah. But again, he's got he's got film, he's got audio, he's got so much stuff. But you know, with all the details together, it's really hard to believe that it's all true. Yeah, too hard for me to believe. And with people who have been very active in the investigations and written books and you know, people that are cited as these main reference points, their

information is all conflicting. Yeah, I mean that conflicting information stuff left out that shouldn't have been, and we're we're pretty much out of time already. I mean, that went really quick. But you know, for me, I think the story that you did is great, and I think it was important enough that you had discovered some things that are forgotten, maybe conveniently forgotten, or maybe just people didn't know about that did research early on that it

was important enough that we should talk about it on the show. Well, and again, I don't pretend to be an expert. This is just information that I was able to pull out just by looking through the sources and unavailable and I'm biased. Look, and you know all you have to do is look at more than one source. Yeah, and you'll start to see all this though, which is important. That's what you got to do, people. Yep, that's how you research. You look at multiple, multiple sources

and find the sources of your sources. Because I've found lately, especially some searcher says, some scientists say it's this, and you go look it up and they've totally misinterpreted the scientists who are kind of twisted their words. Oh yes, but we are out of time. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I hope you found this interesting. I find this information very interesting, and I'm going on the record that Billy's no longer in my gray

basket doesn't mean I don't like him or his pictures. It just means that, unfortunately, I'm skeptical of his story. Next week, we're gonna have Leslie Kine on, which is going to be fun because she had this documentary that went out recently, and of course we'll talk about some of the important things. A lot of people have been asking her about the Belgium picture of the Triangle UFO because they had that in the documentary, although recently we heard

that it was faked. Was it really faked? Is this the right guy? Sometimes people say, well I took a picture and I faked it, and they're not even the person who took the picture. So we'll find out more about that from Leslie herself and what it was like to make this History Channel documentary that she's been working on ever since the Congress. She was at the UFO Congress in February. So thank you all for joining Open Minds Radio.

Don't forget to visit Openminds dot tv for more UFO news. We'll talk to you next week. People,