Jason McClellan, Joe Rogan Questions UFOs

Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I have with me Jason McClellan. I am with you, yes, and uh, first, I want to tell you guys about this guest that I have have on for today. He's maybe the craziest goofiest guests I've ever had, and his name is Jason McClellan. Wa wah well. And the thing is that I can't really trick people because when they go to look at the show, they see Jason McClellan, and I'm over here

trying to pull them, and they're already gonna know. And maybe there'll be some podcast listeners who didn't look at the name of the show and I'll have trick them. You might trick a few people. Nice try a hundred. Yeah, But any who before and what we're going to talk with Jason batt is Jason. If you're not aware, it was on the Joe Rogan Questions Everything show recently, and there was a lot of stuff that has gone over

and that show that I thought would be really important to talk about. So we'll talk about that show piece by piece and about Jason's experience on the show, which is interesting too, but that will play into a lot of the latest thing going on in this field. And we'll also to talk somewhat about some of the recent media dealings with UFOs, because UFOs seem to be in the media a lot more and they don't always get things right, so we'll talk about some of that also coming up. This is gonna be great,

people, You're gonna love it. I can't wait. But before we do that, of course, we like to talk about a news story from the week. And Jason, what is this story you would like to talk about? Well, Sir, I'm going to talk about something that is right along the lines of something you just mentioned, and that is problems with the media

and getting things wrong good at times. But this is a story I know we've talked about more than once on the show, and that's about these UFO sightings in India that continue to happen, actually, but there seemed to be a big wave of them back into twenty twelve, and these were seen by members of the Indian Army and the Indo Tibetan Border Police Force and they're seen along the Indian's border with China, and hundreds of these UFOs were seen over

a six month period, and these things have been investigated since then, and there have just been so many reports that have continued to come out after the initial report of these sightings, and we've heard media outlets dismiss them, saying that astronomers found out that these UFOs were simply Jupiter and Venus. Then we've had reports saying that the country's Defense minister denies there wherever ufo reports to begin

with. And then we have reports that astronomers from the Indian Astronomical Observatory observed these UFOs themselves and studied the phenomenon for a while and ruled out celestial objects completely, ruling out meteors and planets as a possibility to explain these UFOs. So we're hearing things that conflict with each other and going all over the place. But so far, I think the worst defender at reporting this was the

Inquisitor. Back on Sunday, August eighteenth, they published a story about this about these sightings, but the title of it was UFOs over the Taj Mahal next Indian Army reports sightings and creating the impression that the Indian Army saw UFOs over the Taj Mahall when that wasn't the case. There's a video showing object

that looks like it could be over the taj Mahal. It has nothing to do with the sightings by the Indian Army and that particular article doesn't mention anything about the UFO video over the taj Mahal, but they threw that in there with the headline, and that caused MSN write a story that sort of lump them these two non related things together, and it just creates a lot of confusion. And that's a problem we see a lot with these UFO stories.

I mean, they're they're confusing and uh, you know, problematic in themselves, being that we don't have much information to go on with a lot of these stories. But then you get in misreporting or just lack of research and things like that. It really causes a lot of problems with these sightings and does does a disservice, I think, to a lot of the more credible

ones that deserve some more investigation. Yeah, and it's right. So it's kind of like the that telephone thing where you know, you tell someone a message and then they tell someone and how the message gets distorted and yeah, so it turned into the Indian Army saw UFO over the taiz Maha, which is completely wrong. But they don't do their research to even read the story. It's like they read the headline and then they write a story about it.

It's it's kind of ridiculous when big media like that gets it so wrong, and when you've had so many different things reported, you know, we have no idea what the truth is because you know, we're certainly not in India. We're relying on other media. Oh, let's to let us know what's going on. But when those media, oh let's are reporting conflicting things, who knows what's going on. Yeah, yeah, it's well, and

we talked about it even with the Area fifty one. How I absolutely first did it that said nothing about UFOs when there's a full chapter on UFOs, and so the story everywhere was nothing about UFOs when there certainly was information about UFOs. So yeah, it's a big problem, and I don't think it's going away anytime soon. Yeah, they just for some reason. Figure.

I mean a lot of the bigger ones will actually do. You can see in some of the reports, like I saw an ABC one, a full on nightly news where you can tell they read the document, they were very well versed with what was in there. But even yeah, some of the the are bigger media sources, they figure they just don't have to do the research when it comes to this topic for some reason. Sure, and I don't get that, but well, I've said it before, but I'll say

it again. This is a particular case that I'm very much interested in. I love seeing things that develop with it. To be honest, I thought the first time we heard about this story, I thought that would be the last we ever heard of it. And you know, but it keeps coming up, and I'm glad we're hearing more things. I hope we find out what's really going on, because this is one of the more fascinating cases to

me that's ongoing right now. And you know, astronomers and military people seeing these with their own eyes, and just the different stories coming out about it, they are fascinating too. Again, we don't know whether or not they're accurate in the reporting, but there have even been you know, initially it was thought that these could be Chinese lanterns because they were seen in great numbers

and raising over the China border. But those those were ruled out, and they thought they could be drones, and they mostly ruled that out too. But one of the reports I read, and again who knows if this is accurate, but China's military, you know, of course they wouldn't admit to India if they had drones going off across the border. But they in fact said, we don't know what they are if you see them shoot them down. So you know, it's an interesting story. It keeps coming and we

keep hearing new angles about it and new explanations. So we'll see where it goes, if it goes anywhere, if it's just gonna keep going around and round with misreporting. Do you know what, speaking of Area fifty one and these being possible, suggested that they're Chinese lanterns. Chinese lanterns were developed in China, so maybe this is the next generation, highly advanced, super tech

Chinese lantern You think these are these are super advanced Chinese lanterns. Yeah, I could be Chinese lanterns, Yeah, exactly, And secret development of the next generation Chinese lanterns that zip around always a possibility. You can make them spell out the name of the groom and the bride, you know, around who knows, huh, you're creative, my friend. I was thinking of, you know, the story I'm going to do. I was kind of thinking of because there wasn't a whole lot of news last week of the NASA

UFO thing. But it's kind of stupid because NASA said, oh, we saw ufo, but we know what it is. It's like it just used the term UFO to promote this story's face junk, which is kind of frustrating. But I guess I'll talk about Bob Lazar because it was kind of interesting in that one of the stories with Area fifty one, they actually got an interview with Bob LA's arm. Yeah, and I just guess it's not a

whole bunch of news. He didn't really say anything much except for, uh, I knew that Area fifty one there and they really need to check out S four. But I think the interesting part is just we finally hear from Bob Lazarei because he's been avoiding talking about UFOs, but he's still sticking to his story. And he told NBC News that, you know, he worked on these back engineered UFOs at S four near Area fifty one, and all these years later he's still sticking to a story. Yeah, that was interesting

to hear. I'm glad they did get a statement from him. As we mentioned, we tried to get a statement from him, and he wants nothing to do with the whole UFO arena, so he certainly avoided us. But because the story was about Area fifty one, his statement is pretty interesting to

hear. Yeah, and you know, given what he told us, adds to it too, and that he says, you know, he's got this scientific company where he provides science equipment, and that he has government contracts, right and he yet he's still you know, sticking to his story of back engineering alien craft. So really, I think that's kind of interesting. I agree with you. So that's what I had to say about that. Thank

you for saying it. It needed to be said. But of course, Jason and Moore wehen go over all of the news of the week on Spacing Out, which you can find on our YouTube channel. It's my favorite show, is it? It's a pretty good one. I do like it. It's okay, but I'm paid to say it's my favorite show. Yeah. Moving on, let's get to our guests for the week. This gentleman works

for Open Minds magazine. He also works on the website. He also is an animal lover and a vegetarian and has an interesting haircut which was featured on Joe Rogan help me welcome my good buddy Jason McClellan. Yay, hear the crowd of people. Home down people, So let's talk about the Joe Rogan Experience. And maybe you can first tell people because a lot of people don't know who Joe Rogan is, and you know, what is this show that he's doing. Well, Joe Rogan is as known as the stand up comedian.

He's got a fairly popular podcast, Joe Rogan Experience. He's a comedian, he was a host of Fear Factor. He's involved in MMA fighting. I don't know to what extent, but yeah, he does a lot of things. And now he's doing a show on sci Fi I called Joe Rogan Questions Everything, where he goes out and probes interesting and mysterious things. I think they started out with Bigfoot and they've explored whether modification and transhumanism and all

sorts of interesting topics. Now, when you went and shot it was before the show had started, had erect and it sounds like I mean that Joe Rogan is genuinely interested in the paranormal. He absolutely is. I'll say that I think I think Joe's a great guy, and he is hugely into the unknown and things that are mysterious. So when we talked, I could definitely

sense his genuine passion for finding out about this stuff. And he's very much into the subject of extraterrestrials and UFOs, So his his interest and purpose in searching for answers was genuine. And if you saw the show, if not what he did, he people were kind of bummed out right from the begin in that he right off the bat was saying he's being funny. I mean, it's a comedy show essentially, it's a lighthearted entertainment show, and he's

a comedian. You go back to it knowing that, right which, and I thought he was really funny actually, but he started us by saying that the evidence that he's seen is horse manure and showed it. It's like a cartoon of horse manure, I think, or not an actual picture of it. And his point is I want evidence. I want to go talk to these UFO people and I want them to show me evidence, which I personally. And I know people might get frustrated by at least what level of evidence

he is willing to accept, but I appreciated that. I mean, in that let's go look for the good stuff, not just the stuff that people excited about but really doesn't prove anything. Yeah, you know, I have to agree with him. You know, there there's you and I talk about this all the time. There's lots of lots of good stuff out there and plenty that contributes to our search, but how much of it is concrete proof? You know, that's that's more difficult to find, and that was his

quest. You know, there's lots of photos and videos and stories from this person or stories from this person who heard it from that person, but he wanted concrete proof. You know, you're not going to go out and find a UFO in somebody's garage. I mean he probably not, probably, but

it's a possibility, sure, But that's what he was looking for. And his point was, you know it's not there, so what do we have, right, So let's go down And when I analyzed kind of some of what he looked at, because I think that his approach was great and that and he was able to talk to a few people from that perspective and try to pull out, you know, what is proof versus evidence, and what his idea of evidence was versus what other people's idea of evidence is, which

I think is such an important topic. So first he battled with Bill Burns, and I call it a because he really got kind of I don't know if i'd say heated, because he was mostly joking around, but he was certainly kind of in burns face, talent, Are you forgetting me? What are you talking about? You know, he was getting all excited at but in a negative way. I guess about what Bill Burns was saying, because

Bill Burns was trying to say, and this is kind of funny. Bill Burns was trying to say that there is evidence, and Joe Rogan said, well, I want something I can touch, and Bill Burns said pictures. And Joe Rogan says, why I can't touch that? And Bill Burns said, you can touch it with your eyes. I wouldn't recommend it. I don't know if I buy that so much. Some of these photos, especially the ones we have in r archives, are pretty old and have had have

been handled by lots of people. I wouldn't go touching those to your eyeballs. Yeah, so I'm not sure. I mean Bill Burns's idea that this is I guess he was maybe trying to say it's physical evidence. But of course Joe Rogan was talking about going and touching the UFO, right. It brings up the issue of photo evidence though, and Rogan wasn't really willing to go there. Yeah, that that seems to you. I mean, I'm sure he would be happy to see some good UFO photos and or videos,

but that wasn't the purpose of his search. You know, he's seen that before. He was looking for more. And I've got to say, I mean, we see stuff all the time. We get sent to photos every day. We've got thousands of photos here. I mean we look at hundreds, if not thousands of photos and videos every year. So we see a lot. And I love photo and video evidence. But at the same time

I understand and take it for what it's worth. You know, it can be contributing evidence to a case, it can support something, but is it proof. No, it certainly is not proof. And it has to be understood that this is a photo or video and anything, absolutely anything can be created on photo or video I mean, technology is amazing, and no, it doesn't take millions of dollars. You know, high school kids can create

amazing things with photoshop and video editing software. Affects. Tools are incredible and make it easier and easier every day to create whatever you want. So you have to understand it in that context. But you know it can't contribute to a case. I agree, but I do want to at least argue with Bill Burns's point a little bit. Not much. I'm not touching anything with my eyeball, but like true, I think that unfortunately has become where photoggraphic

evidence is not acceptable. It's not something that gets people excited, doesn't prove anything to people. People kind of ignore it and don't pay attention to it. These days, of course, people in the UFO field pay attention to it, but not outside so much, which is unfortunate. And then when it comes to for instance, I believe and I think that we've got we're lucky enough to have, you know, the best Billy Meyer pictures. This is an exact sample of pre photoshop, but these are pretty good and I'm

convincder fakes. But although there are some telltale signs in these pictures that demonstrate that. However, you know, we've got this incredible photo collection that we got from a guy who was in the Air Force and researched this for decades with Wendell Stevens, and some of those pictures I think are really interesting.

And of course in our magazine we put at least six UFO photographs in there and we tell tell you about them, and the vast majority turned out to be misidentifications sometimes hoaxes, but there are a small minority that are really really interesting, and I think it would be cool for any of these shows, including like Rogans, to examine some of these really good photos, even like some of them in are archives that we can explain from the fifties and the

sixties and the seventies, to try to help us figure out this is a pretty cool photo. What you what is this? You know, because a lot of these I'm not so sure could be hoaxed. What do you think? Well, you know, I think anything is possible. People are creative. But I'm with you, man, Some of those older photos are my favorites, and we do have some pretty mysterious ones. And I've seen a lot of older photos that you know, are bewildering. So yeah, I

do love those. And you know, I said, you know, you've got to take photos and video evidence for what they're worth anymore, It's still preferred, you know, if there's a sighting submitted with with just written testimony or a citing submitted written testimony plus photo or video, I'll take that any tith week. You know, that's what we want, and that helps add a visual to it, helps you understand what the person is describing better.

And you know, sometimes those things are just completely bizarre looking, so they add to the interest of the case. Yeah, that's another hard part. You bring up. A good point is that the photo the witness testimony, because these days, really once you get to higher levels of scrutiny, the witness testimony is thrown out, even though it can be very important, especially when you have multiple credible witnesses reporting seeing what is in the photograph. And

I think that's vital. For instance, I got a photo in yesterday from someone and it looks interesting, but in the end, it's the light in the sky. The witness says, you know, this light did X, Y and Z, and maybe it did. You can't tell that from the photo. And if it did, it could be a genuine mystery, but unfortunately the photo isn't enough. The witness testimony leads credence, and this would

come up when I did move on investigations to the sighting. So it's a good sighting, right, but still not necessarily that convincing to like a skeptic or someone you might be really trying to prove something too. And so it

comes back to kind of what you had talked about. I mean, it's the photo can be really interesting, it can demonstrate something, but I do believe, and I don't think it's a problem to have, you know, the old Carl Sagan thing, which is what we're stuck in, which is extraordinary claims for our extraordinary evidence, and so that doesn't meet that extraordinary bar.

Right, that's the unfortunate position that we're in. I mean, the bar is set really high, and to convince anybody beyond the shadow of a doubt, there has to be, you know, pretty solid evidence. And even with solid evidence, it's not going to necessarily quits a proof for many people. Yeah, yeah, And I mean it would have been nice if Bill Burns would have made some of these arguments, although he didn't. Although he may have, and they just didn't use it for the show because it's

not that funny. Like, we've been talking about this for a while and it hasn't been that funny. I think it's interesting, but not funny, and their point was being funny. So I'll take it. I'll try I'll try to be more funny along. No, that's okay, we're being serious, which was important for that topic. Right, this is a serious show. But the Joe Rogan Show is all about funny funny, so if it's

not funny, it's not making the show. So yeah, So that was interesting with the Bill Burns point, And I don't know, Bill Burns kept talking about anecdotal stuff and this became an ongoing thing in the show, and I really think Joe Rogan makes a really good point. And maybe someone pointed this out to him too. I don't know if you had the opportunity too, that he's right that a lot of this is anecdotal. Even if some

of the people are very credible, it's still very anecdotal. Right. Yeah, we definitely talked about them, and he you know that it's a point that he you could tell because that's the direction of the show. Went he agrees with, but he's also frustrated by it, you know, as we all are. You know, I wish that weren't the case, but it

is, and it's what we've got to work with. Yeah. So, so it would have been nice, and it's an important thing, but it would have been kind of cool if they would have taken some really cool photographs, a couple of real good wins, and taken a look at him. And I think more shows need to do that, because there's a lot of really good photos out there, and even let's say the mcmillonville photos which were examined in the Condon Report and the condent scientist said was not a hoax.

It's a real object in the sky. Even those they're mentioned in a lot of these shows, but not thoroughly examined where people understand that aspect of it. So, and that's television, that's entertainment. You know, there's limited time, limited budgets. Yeah, but these shows that are about UFOs can dedicate even an episode to that. I mean they can, They've got time, they just don't do it. That's true much of the time. Yes,

Yeah, there's there's no excuse, Jason, none. So that was a Bill Burns portion and then of course it did get funny and that they argued back and forth. But did you have anything more to say about the Bill Burns section of the show. No, I don't think so, So next, I think next with Darryl Simms, right, probably, Yeah, we'll talk about that anyway, because this is another important one. This is abductions and implants. And it was kind of cool because Darryl Simms told his

story. They kind of made jokes while they're a talent the story, but he brought out these implants that he has that he's been able to receive. And this is what gets me is that which was cool about the Rogan show is a they had one of them analyzed, right, which is very cool. But this is what frustrates me with the people who have these implants.

Why haven't you done this already? Why if it was me and I had a case like this where I thought it was a solid case and I got this piece of material, my number one focus, my number one job would be to get this piece of material analyzed. Yeah, I'm with you. So why is this the first time he's finding out this information from Joe Rogan? Why hasn't he done this before? That's kind of frustrating. I agree, I was wondering the same thing because he brought a whole box full of

stuff. I wonder if any of us been tested, and I wonder why they selected the one they did. But yeah, it was cool and unexpected that the show actually did test so and what they found was interesting that this thing was gold and silver? Was it? These little tiny little beads that came from this girl, a young girl who said she had an experience and these metals came fround of her nose and they're really tiny beads and they analyzed

them and they were gold and silver? Weren't they? I think they were? But yeah, it was interesting because the scientists doing the testing found it interesting. So that's what now needs to be done some more. I mean, obviously some people might not know, and well they probably wouldn't know,

except I think we did include that in our story. But for instance, Roger Lear is the most well known to have these implants, and he's had some of them analyzed and he's had What happens, and we've talked about this before, is that you go to a lab, you have them do the work to analyze it. Typically, they'll give you the data, the raw data, and then you need to have that translated. You can have someone at the lab do it, or you could have someone else do it,

but you've got the raw data. Roger Lear has had his data analyzed by one individual who's a lab tech. However, we sent that exact same data to Kimbler, who is the guy in Roswell, New Mexico, who teaches geology and at the New Mexico Military Institute, and he looked at it and he disagreed with the translation that Lear had, and his translation was much more mundane, not necessarily meaning that it isn't something unusual, just that the data

retrieved thus far is not substantial evidence towards it being something unusual. So there you have the issue, and the example being that you know, here again, take that data to a credible source, because really you have now we have a teacher at a military institute, you have this lab tech, but we don't have an analysis by you know, someone who is an established expert. Yet, Let's do this, you know, that's the most important thing.

Let's take this data to an established expert and have them tell us next, right, and you know that's that's just good science. You know, it might not be the easiest route to go, but it's what we have to do to make sure the science is good. There has to be peer review on these studies. Not all scientists are going to agree, but the testing needs to be reproduced by other labs. And I'm sorry, but these this testing needs to be done by people who are unbiased, who don't have

an agenda, who aren't tied to one side or the other. They're just looking to see what the data shows. Yeah, I mean people will ask a lot of times I get that question. Well, a lot of people will ask, you know, what about Ler? What about his implants? And it's really interesting stuff and it's great, but the next step has not been taken yet. I mean, you've got data, but we don't have credible analysis yet. That needs to be done and it can be done,

and that's I hope what does get done. Like you said, that's good science, and but that's where we're stuck right now. And a lot of people don't understand that, and they're like, well, he did it an analysis, didn't you know that? Yeah? I do know that. In fact, I know the details of the of each step and we have our own analysis, so but people don't understand you need you know, just like it when it comes to sightings, you need credible experts, right. So

that's the next step with the implants. Hopefully that gets done because it's one area where there could be some really startling physical evidence that is just sitting and waiting there to be discovered, right, and one of the best areas that could could potentially have physical evidence. So it's worthy of taking the necessary steps to get that tested and tested properly. And I wonder why it doesn't get

done sometimes. I wonder sometimes well, and I don't mean to be accusing anybody of anything, but sometimes it seems like people don't get evidence analyzed because they're afraid of the results. Sure, I think that's definitely valid, and I don't know if this is the case, and I don't believe it to be the case actually, But even some people, at least when it comes to the implants, but in some cases, they don't want their gravy train

to end, right, And that's kind of unfortunate. And that's another thing that comes into all of this. It's all these personality issues that come into play. YEP, and you are dealing with human nature. That's the doctor that comes in and you know it's difficult to deal with. So yeah, I think you're right that does come into play sometimes, not all the time, but that's definitely something that has to be dealt with. So next is

mister Stephen Bassett. So and you know, I got to say, of course we had our criticisms, and I'm sure we'll kind of mention that here a little bit of the way Bassett maybe goes around some of his things, but of course we're passionate about the subject. Everybody in the feels that they

could, you know, do things a little differently. But I got to say, when watching the show where they put in because they did cover Stephen Bassett and the Citizen's Hearing, and they had clips from the citizens hearing, and those clips are really invaluable. I mean they're really important and convincing, and it made me really appreciate I think what Bassett had done a little more. Yeah, definitely, And kudos to Joe Rogan and the show for choosing

the clips they did and showing the important stuff. So you know, I think they saw the value in that too. For the show and looking at that is some pretty good evidence. Well, and their point was, I mean, in the end, and he has another good point that it's all anecdotal. Sure it is, it is all anecdotal. But like he said, if I had sat there for six days listening to this stuff, I probably would have been convinced too. But in the end, it's all anecdotal,

right, Yeah, he realized that. But you know, he spent a lot of time talking to what's the name of the congressman. Well, yeah, I was going to talk about that next to Mike Gravel, right, two term senator from Alaska, And I mean he really started getting into things where, you know, Rogan seemed to be really convinced, especially with what Gravell had to say. But yeah, but it was interesting how these senators were convinced. Now, Mike Gravel worked with Daniel Sheehan who helped organize

this. Daniel Sheehan's work with Stephen Greer. He's been in the UFO field for a long time. Mike Gravell, I believe, going into this already was more informed than the other senators and was already down that road and believing in this stuff. He's actually more of a kind of a renegade too. I mean, he's always into kind of fringe more type of things. But you know, he's a very convincing person. He comes across as a very credible person, and he seemed very convincing to Joe Rogan. Yeah, that's

what it seemed like. Yeah, for sure. So it was great that he had Mike Gravell, the two term senator from Alaska. He actually ran for president, not that he really had a shot at it. I think he ran under the Libertarian Party in the nineties. So but yeah, it was another compelling part to everything. And I think at least, you know, Joe Rogan was looking for evidence, sitting the far really high, He's looking for some hard proof. But I think this part of the show is

very convincing. Yeah I thought so too. Yeah, but you're ready. It did point out and you know that's a similar thing to me to Paul Hellier, the former Minister of Defense in Canada. You know, he's very outspoken about this topic and how very convinced he is that extraterrestrials are here living

on Earth. But when it comes down to it, that information is his belief that he's formed from hearing what others have to say so again, based on anecdotal evidences, it's great and it contributes a lot, but that's what it is, so take it for what it's worth. But yeah, you

know what's great about it, though, is and highlighting it. I don't people know if people realize how many you know, quote unquote credible people, mainstream people like senators or like military officers are really into this topic, have had their own experiences and are convinced that what they experienced was not just the

UFO, but that this was a craft from an extraterrestrial civilization. Absolutely, and you're right, there's so many of them, and those really are my favorite witnesses and and favorite I guess evidence in this this whole thing is is some of the testimonies and thoughts from people like that. Yeah, so that's

that's one great thing. And again that's something I appreciated from the Citizen Hearing, and that's that it provides on video a lot of testimony from these people with great questions from uh, you know, retired politicians and then them having to defend or clarify their position. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, I think it was a great platform, and I think it did a great job at what it was supposed to do, and we'll we'll see what can come

of it, if anything. You know, I think a lot of times these efforts go unnoticed because a lot of people, for some reason feel that it doesn't deserve attention. And I think that's a horrible, horrible situation because you and I know, all Janter, there's so many exciting things and things that definitely merit investigation in this whole phenomenon. It's fascinating, There's so many unknowns and definitely needs to be explored. So the next part was with this

guy named Jason McClellan. I remember that, and now you get a chance to set the record straight because he was asking you about Robert Bigelow, Robert Bigelow being a hotel tycoon, you know, who had done UFO research and he is the owner of Skinwalker Ranch, which we'll get into because that Grogan was really interested in that, and according to you, Robert Bigelow may have some UFOs. That is according to me at least in the show. Yes, So, like I said at the beginning, I think it was great

and he definitely has a genuine interest in all this stuff. And so we just talked and talked and talked about so many topics. My main purpose was to talk about Bigelow and a lot of the conspiracies surrounding Bigelow and his his UFO interest and so on. So those were discussed, and most of it

I didn't really well. There were there were a couple of issues that they really wanted me to bring up for the show, but I had to explain to them why they were non issues and if we did say them on the show, we would look ill informed and they'd be chasing things that didn't really need to be chased. So fortunately they allowed me to do that, but I was I understood what they were they were wanting to do. They wanted to get set up to go to Skinwalker and wanted to talk about some of

the conspiracies around him. So a lot of my comments about Robert Bigelow were talking about things that some people believe and you know, some of the conspiracies surrounding him. So in setting things up that way, comments may have been used in other ways than we're coming out of my mouth, but that's to be expected. You know, I knew that going in, so so I mean that that was taken out of perspective that you said that he would work. I mean, and what was the way that you had originally set as?

Oh, I don't remember, it was so long ago, but you know, talking about Bigelow might be in possession of UFOs. It's certainly something that some people believe because Bigelow has spent millions and millions of dollars into researching, actively researching, funding research into UFOs and extraterrustrial life. It's something he's

extremely passionate about. He's not shy about that, and you know, he's got his big Low aerospace and people believe that, you know, he may be in possession of technology that will assist him in getting his habitats into space,

although his habitats are already in space. So that's really the context of it, right, right, So they just took out the part where you said some people believe, right, and then put in after that so just so people know, you know that you don't necessarily believe that, but you do know that he's got an interest in this topic. It's a possibility that he may we have no idea what he has, but no, I don't think that's the case. It's the possibility, but many people will not many

some people believe that he's in possession of extraterrestrial technology. Yeah, I mean, he probably wouldn't be looking for anything anymore if he had it. Yeah, that's right. He would have the answers, but he's still hungry for those answers. So another quote that they kind of took you, a little out of context. I'm letting you, you know, set the records straight, and that the Skinwalker Ranch. You said you hadn't been there because if you had, you'd be dead. Yes, yes, I remember saying that.

I don't remember exactly how what the discussion was going along, but I think we were talking about different things that people have seen at Skinwalker, what's there, what happens to people who go there. We talked about the Claris Island incidents and people dying from UFOs, and so I think this was at a point we were joking around, and I don't remember exactly how it came off, but yeah, I did say jokingly that if I'd been to Skinwalker,

I'd be killed. But then I went on to explain that it's a place that given the opportunity, I would go to you in a heartbeat. I'd love to do some investigation there, And no, I don't think I would die at all. I let a skinwalker. I don't think anything would happen, but I think I might see some interesting stuff. Yeah, that could be the case. And yeah, because obviously you guys were joking out around a lot and they put some of it in the show where he's like,

you know, can we take him a UFO? How do we get big load of let us on Skinwalker Ranch? Can we take him a UFO? Can we take him a hot chick in an alien outface? And You're like, he's got lots of money, he could get that if you wanted, that's right. Yeah, he said you got to figure out what what men in their sixties like, I said, well, we know he loves UFO, He's give him a UFO. Yeah. And then he proposed getting a hot, hot alien chick and I said he could probably buy that.

Yeah. So, and then the cool thing is is why you are talking to Joe Rogan, his psidekick is talking to doctor Eric Davis, who is a physicist. Yes work with NIDS or with Big Low NIDS, being the National Institute of Discovery Scientists which Bigelow funded and did all of this paranormal research, and doctor Eric Davis was on the ranch and part of this, and he talked about some of their crazy experiences. Yeah, I was excited to

see him on the show. I'm glad they talked to him because he's, in my opinion, a very credible person and I like a lot of what he has to say. So it's cool having him on there, and they seem to take him very seriously. Mm hmm. Yeah, and doctor Eric Davis is a very credible person. I forget which award. I'm gonna look this up because we wrote about him just recently, but yeah, he is.

He's kind of a big deal, and they were really interested in what he had to say because he confirmed some of the super strange things that happened on the Skinwalker ranch. Like he even talked about this the portal opening up and some kind of being walking in and out of a portal. Right, Yeah, and I'm glad he set that up. You know, it's better coming from him than coming from me. He was actively involved in researching that.

So but yeah, like I said, that's that's the place I'd love to go because there are just so many reports of absolutely everything happening there. It's like a grab bag of paranormal going on there. Yeah, he's a physicist at the Institute for Advanced Studies in Austin. But I wanted to mention to do what he got because it was kind of like a big deal.

But he won the award for his Faster than Light space warp studies from the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. We spoke at MUFIN recently too about this and just that he speaks about how, you know, the possibility of technologies that can go faster than light, that's how these things could be getting here, which he believes you know, are here. And I love that discussion so much, and we're going to hear more and more about that as our

own technologies change and we find these ways. I mean, the warp drive is currently being worked on, and it's going to happen sooner or later. But as our understanding of space changes, which happens every day, that excuse we'll start going away at the excuse that, oh, that's ridiculous that extraterrestrials could be here. There's no way they could travel from there to hear. I think that that excuse is going to go away when our understanding of space

changes, which it will. We're a lot of us are arrogant to think that, you know, we figured out concrete laws of physics and laws of space. We don't really know anything. And that's what we're finding more and more every day with new studies of space, that we really just scratch the surface. So then they go to Skinwalker Ranch. They walk around with night

vision, they don't really have any experiences. They kind of go with this guy who doesn't seem too credible because he has all these kind of crazy stories. He kind of seems like he's making up really and they didn't really buy what he had to say. That's what it seemed like. Yoh yeah, I wasn't really by him because he was kind of a goofy seemed like he was kind of just having fun. But then they ran across a rancher who lived nearby and they interviewed him and he said, yeah, we all have

these really weird experiences around here. And he seemed like a normal guy, very credible, just regular rancher guy. Yeah. And you know, we've talked to a few people who live in that area, right, and you know, people in the area, and you know, they've all got interesting stores to say, yeah, you know stuff. Everybody's got a weird story from around here. So it's commonly known that strange things are afoot Skinwalker Ranch. Yeah, so I mean, and that was kind of There was a

lot more joking afterwards. Oh no, they did interview this girl too, Oh yeah, and they made fun because she was someone who claimed to have had an abduction experience and she was this really pretty girl with tattoos and yeah, she had a big scar. I thought she'd been in playing. Yeah, so the sidekick had interviewed her, and he was kind of twitter paid and a little too distracted, distracted by her looks to interview her thoroughly. But yes, And Joe gave him lots of crap for that, right,

and even hassled him some more. On his podcast on the Joe Rogan Experience, they talked about that and that the segment is on sci Fi's website where they've got like a post clip where he and his buddy talk about it after the show, and he said, man, I sent you there to do some investigation, but I should have known better. You were worthless. Yeah.

I watched that too, That was hilarious. Yeah, and I would recommend people go watch that because they are kind of doing some talking afterwards, and I know the show definitely he was very skeptical, but really in that podcast you can see how he still thinks he's really interesting. He was like, you know, kind of can like this stuff is so fascinating and how he really considers it. It was just that he was setting kind of a

high bar for that particular show, which isn't a bad thing. I think it's good to set a high bar, and I think it's good to do that because that's what the rest of the world is doing and if we want to really get look for the best evidence and move past anecdotal stuff. Anecdotal stuff is great. I love to bring it down the show, We love to talk about it and write about it. But in the end, you know, at least I know, we have a focus on looking for better

than that, because we need better than just anecdotal. We need, you know, what is considered hard evidence or proof for everyone in order to push that forward, to move thing forward. And I'm just I'm not I think that is possible. I think it's out there. We just got to work really hard yeah, I agree with you, And yeah it I understand from from Joe's point too, that you know, looking for more. You have people who are genuinely interested in this, have been interested in this for a

very long time. So after a while, Yeah, I mean those photos, the testimony, all that stuff is great stuff. It's it's always going to be. But you could to a point where if you're looking for more, I get that. You know, what's what's the point in belaboring the same thing over and over and over. You've already you've already seen that,

You've already gone down that road. So if you're doing a television show trying to be different than every other television show talking about the same case as every other television show talks about and seeing the same photos every show is showing, you got to do something different. And I understand that his goal was to see something more than he had seen, So right, all right, Well that's pretty much the show. I think we talked about the other media step

earlier. Was there something else you wanted to add? Well, I will say that you know this this show, I overall I was. I was happy with with how they presented it. It was much better than I thought it would be, and going into it, I kept in mind, you know, what I'd been told from our buddy Clifford Cliff because he he did

what show did he do? The Cobert Report? Yeah, and you know, people gave him a lot of crap for that, and you know, going along and playing playing with the skits and being silly about the topic. But you know, you have to go into these things understanding what they are from the beginning. And Joe Rogan as a comedian, this is an entertainment show on sci Fi. So going into it knowing that I knew what to it, well, I feared, you know, much worse, and knew

that it could be because it's it's an entertainment show. But overall I thought they treated it well. They did give a lot of time and attention to important things like the citizen hearing and talk to great people like Eric Davis and myself to my own horn. But yeah, so annoying. It was a comedy mainly comedy show. You know, I was expecting a low bar and I was pleasantly surprised. Yeah, I got to agree with you. You

know, I think I liked it. Overall. I thought it was funny and I thought they brought up some really good convincing staff, so overall I pretty much thought it was kind of cool. And in these things, you have to know your role, and I think you kind of have to play along otherwise you're not fitting with the show and you know that you're going to be cast in a negative light. You know, if you you butt heads and you sit there and don't understand that they're they're trying to be lighthearted.

If you don't understand that and play back a little bit, they're going to be less interested in what you have to say. So right, if you can come down to their level and go along with what they're looking for, then what you say is going to be more important. Yeah, I totally agree with you there. Before you go, There's one thing I want to talk about and people may not know, but unfortunately, Jesse Marcel Junior passed

away yesterday of a heart attack. He's someone that I've known for a long time because I met him doing the Roswell conferences for the city and so of course we always bring him and then I was running his website for a long

time and forwarding his messages. He of course is the son of Jesse Marcel, who was the intelligence officer first on the scene in Roswell who collected the material, and then later in the seventies was interviewed by Samton Friedman to say that, hey, what I had collected was not a weather balloon that was vs. It was something very strange that we thought was extra treasturil. So

he helped make that Roswell become the big famous thing it is today. And Jesse Marcell Junior, his son, had seen some of the material that his father had brought home. He was in the military. He was a flight surgeon, very nice, credible person who supported his father's story and supported saying, hey, I saw some of that material. It's the strangest thing I

had ever seen. And unfortunately he passed away. And you had the privilege of recently going to the Riswell crash site with him and even to the place where the material was stored. It was incredible. Yeah, I was so sad to hear about his passing, and I'm fortunate to have been able to go out to the debris filled with him. And that was just an incredible

experience going out there with both he and Frank Kimbler. We went out there and Yeah, he hadn't been out there in a long time, and he was out there with his daughter too, and I just was very impressed with what a smart man Jesse he was not just I mean, he was a doctor and was deployed to the Middle East in his sixties. I think he's

very very active military person. But his intelligence that surprised me, was very current enough to date with things developing with the privatization of space and these private space companies and space exploration, lots of new developments. I was able to kind of geek out with him about a lot of space stuff, and that that really surprised me. Was unexpected, But he was very excited about everything that's going on in space and where where we're going, and how well we'll

soon be moving out into space, and so I'll remember that forever. That was just great. Yeah, really really cool guy. So our condolences to his family, and I'm certainly gonna gonna miss him. We seeing him every year in Roswell and just talking to him once in a while, and he's just a really really cool guy. You know. It's it's really nice to meet some of these people, and they turned out to be so down to earth and just really caring, decent people, so down to earth, such

a caring, sweet guy, so approachable. It's just somebody you just want to hug him, you know, he is so just such a nice guy. Yeah, all right, Well, thank you big Jay for being on the show. Another one down and that was a lot of fun. And just you know, we've talked about a lot of stuff because I thought they brought up a lot of really important topics. Yeah, and then there were a lot more that he was very fascinated and that didn't get shown in the

show, but you know, hopefully they'll consider that for another episode. But we talked a lot about the Phoenix lights and about mass sightings and all sorts of interesting things. But like I said, a genuinely curious guy who really

passionately wants proof like we all do. Right, all right, So go check out Joe Rogan Questions Everything. You can go to the Sci Fi Channel and they do a synopsis of everything that was on the show, and then, like Jason said, you can see some of the clips of the show and also some aftermath stuff that they did on there that you can watch. You can also go to Amazon I right right now and watch the whole episode if you would like, or just keep an eye on the Sci Fi channel.

I'm sure they're running rerunts. Otherwise, don't forget to check out open Minds dot tv for the latest. UFO knew some of those stories we talked about earlier. We'll have more stories up. We'll have a little bit more about Jesse Marcel. You can also visit our facebooks and our twitters. We're always sending out information that way, and our YouTube. We've always got some videos there and I'm sure we'll try to put something together for Jesse on YouTube

as well. But I want to thank the guys who have donated. Are awesome open and close music. There's always people asking what are those songs? So unluckily our open music was custom made by Caleb Hanks, thank you very much. And the closed music is called then I forget the name of the song, but it's done by two Earth Minutes and they had sent that to us and allowed us to use it and I love that song too, so thanks guys for that. Otherwise, everyone else, have a wonderful week.

Thank you so much for joining us again, and we will talk to you next week. People Usta Manyama firsts first, which s st