Hello, and welcome to Open Minds Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with a super UFO investigator, extraordinary and television star, Jason McClellan. That is not me. I have no idea who you're talking about. Yeah, that's definitely you. Okay, Hey, how you doing? How good? How you doing? Not too chevy? So? Uh do you drive around in limousines and stuff? Now I used to you, but then I burned through all my money and now I ride a horse.
Oh cool. Well, this is the Old West that we live in, so that's appropriate, I suppose. Possibly. So what I'm referring to, if people don't know, is a television show called Hangar one, which is about the secret Mofon files that are hidden away in a hangar in the middle of nowhere somewhere. Well that's a premise of the show anyway, that's what they're saying. Yeah. So, and actually our guest today is Jan Harzan, the executive director of Moufon. So we'll ask him about this supposed
hangar. Now we know there's this hanger does not exist, right, Jason, No, I can't say anything about that. Okay, Well, I'll ask Jan. But this thing is if you watch the show and it was on H two, which is like History too. Write that is correct. It is History's second channel. And this hanger looking thing is actually kind of weird. It's kind of a weird building. It looks like some kind of old European maybe hangar, because it's got these brick walls and everything. It
doesn't look like what one would typically think of. I think when you see a hangar, who knows it's a hanger in the Midwest. So maybe they have interesting hangers in the Midwest. And when they filmed you were you in this hanger. That's the magic of television. And I will not not discuss that any further. Oh, you won't disclose your location. I don't want to ruin your imagination there while you're watching Alejandro. Okay, cool, cool, cool, that makes sense. But how it were you? So there's
one episode. Did you feel pretty good about that episode or what were your thoughts? Well? I wasn't in it very much, so I didn't like it at all. Yeah, no, I'm kidding, no, no, no it yeah, you know we shot that a year ago, I guess. So it brought back some fond memories of sitting in front of lights and a Cardigan's water in a warehouse with no air conditioning in the summer. So that was a very hot, hot hot. Yeah. So it has been
a while now since they filmed it. And however there's more episodes. How many episodes are there for the whole season. There will be eight episodes for the entire season, so one already aired on the twenty eighth. In that episode you can watch it for free on H two's website right now, and other episodes will air every Friday. Cool. And then you're going to be in more of it too, right, that's out of my hands, I should be. I shot all eight episodes, so yeah, so if things
go well, they'll be more Jason McClellan in the future episode. So cool. Well, thanks thanks for sharing. Oh my pleasure. I hope people enjoy looking at me. Yeah. So, like I said, we're gonna have Jan Harzan on in a little bit. We've got an interview with him. We're going to talk to him about his past and how he got involved with UFOs, which is actually really interesting, some great stories. We've had
a couple of interviews with him online on YouTube that are really cool. But we'll talk to him about that here on the show, and then we'll talk to him about the future of move On and some of the cool things that they have in store that they're going to be working on. So it ought to be a lot of fun to talk to Jan. Jan was on a show also, Yeah, Jen was on there, and yeah, I'm not sure how much he shot. I'm sure he'll talk more about that, but yeah, he was. He was on the show for a little bit,
and uh, yeah, it's good to see him. He wasn't on too long, though, he got about as much time as you did. I think that's right. Yeah, and which more than another stuff. I mean, like we shot for hours with Chasing UFOs and I got to say a couple of things and they barely showed us at all. And you shuttle a lot with the Kardashians, and yeah, you had more lines than I had on that, that's right. And then there's our colleague Maureen, who I
know is all over the television. Yeah, her show, she gets lots of airtime. Yep. Open Minds represent Yeah, so cool. So of course, before we go to the interview, as usual, we talk about our favorite news items from the past week, and Jason, what would be your news item? Alejandra, I'm going to talk about a story we published yesterday and that is about a UFO over Vancouver. This was an interesting bright ball of light that was recorded by an amateur astronomer in Vancouver, up in
Canada, in British Columbia. And this was recorded on Friday, February twenty eighth, and it happened in the at night about eight forty four pm. And this guy had three different cameras set up because he apparently sees lots of things and he's always scanning the skuys looking for interesting things. So he had three different camera set up and he was able to capture this thing. And like most people, you know, we encourage people to do this all the
time. Is with objects like this, go to the wonderful and useful website Heaven's Above and see if there might have been a satellite or something in the area at that time. They could possibly explain what the object was. So this individual did that. He went to Heavens Above and it was no satellite or anything scheduled to be in the air in that area at that time, so he ruled that out. He uploaded his video to YouTube, and he says that he saw more than a dozen objects like this in about an hour
to send the exact same area, and some were flashing. But the interesting thing about this is it moving through the sky. And you watch it in the video that we have at open Minds dot tv. You know, it's kind of moving very at a slow, steady pace through the sky and very similar to what a satellite would do. But then towards the end it does something interesting. It seems to kind of stop in one area and just kind
of hover there, and satellites don't do that. This individual didn't completely rule out the possibility of satellity, entertains that possibility, but it says if that's the case, because it's not on Heaven's Above, it's not something that's listed or scheduled. It would have to be a spy or an unknown some sort of satellite or or space junk. But I said, with the movements that this thing did, that's probably not the case. And I agree with him.
I mean, these things don't stopping the sky and hover mm hmm. So what do you think it might be? I don't know what it is, Alejandro. It's a mystery, a true unknown. Cool. Yeah, I think that's uh. It was posted on the Whitley Streaber site unknown Country by his wife, An Streaber, and forget what she described it as, that's almost the terminology she used. She's like a confirmed unknown or something like that. So uh, let's see. Yeah, a confirmed unknown, so
that's what she's going with. I'll go with that as well. Cool. Yeah, I didn't have time to read the story. I read a little bit about the three cameras, so I'm glad that you shared the details on that. But I did watch the video. Yeah, it's an interesting video. It's long, and you know he used the three cameras that we're seeing a bit of that. But yeah, the most interesting thing is where it
kind of gets lower on the horizon and that just stops. Well, and that's kind of fun because actually I posted one yesterday too, which was also Moufon had determined as an unknown. They couldn't figure out what it is, so it's kind of cool. You know, we have so many stories where it is known or we're pretty certain what it is, but yeah, yesterday people can go look at two stories of real unknowns, ones that we can't figure out. Maybe that's more exciting stuff. Yeah, that's kind of cool.
Yeah, well, what was your story? My story? I'm going to have a story and a warning. Oh yeah, that's kind of exciting. Huh A warning. I don't know. I'm a little scared. Yeah, and you know, I'm going to do a story a warning, and we have on the website an alert, a move on alert. People have to go to the website to look at that. Though. The story I'm going to talk about is the Snowden documents, because of course this Snowden character was a contractor with the NSA and he had a lot access to a lot
of documents and he has been releasing those been a big story. I'm sure everybody knows about that. But in his latest release of documents on a website called the Intercept, and this website was started just to tract Snowden documents and to talk about Snowden documents. And these are journalists, journalists from NBC and other places that have put up this website. But he released a few documents.
One of them is a PowerPoint from an organization called gc HQ, which is a British government communications headquarters, and they have this slide show called the
Art of deception training for a new generation of online covert operations. And it's really interesting because it talks about, you know, things like false flag projects, but these are like releasing information and claiming they're from someone that they're not to hurt their reputation and all of these things you can do to influence people and manipulate online. So really interesting. But it is just a slide show, so we don't have the comments of the slide show, so we don't
know exactly the content of what the person whoever presented this was saying. But in this slide show are three pictures of three UFO pictures. One of them is a famous one from Redbud, Illinois in nineteen fifty and it's one of them that is more curious that people don't know for sure what it is. Then there's a video from Mexico from Arturo Roblez, who we know very well. Him Mussan's friend down in Mexico. Often what he films his balloons,
and I think this video might be that as well, Milar balloons. And then the third one is a story you wrote about and this is a picture from Cornwall, England from October of twenty eleven and it very much. It just looks like a seagull flying by, And of course we've talked about this before. When people take pictures of birds, they often can look kind of
strange because of the motion blur and stuff like this. And this seagull even seems to have captured mid drop droppings that are in the air still under it, so you probably remember that. And then the slide directly after that one is of a camera an iPhone, you know, featuring the photograph tool, and then some wheels, some round wheels like hubcaps, maybe referring to people could throw hubcaps in here and take pictures of them and look like UFO.
I don't know what it's referring to, so yeah, I don't. We have no idea why they included those pictures or what those are about. Of course, it's about deception, so it could be that just you know, how things that are mandane can easily be seen as something that it's not. I asked Nick Pope about it, who worked for the Ministry of Defense as a UFO investigator from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety four, and he said something interesting. But it makes perfect sense, he says, while I left
the Ministry of Defense in two thousand and six. The Official Secret Act binds me for light, I am not able to contact our comment on intelligent matters, and I'm not prepared to discuss classified materials that has been released without authorization. And of course these are still secret documents. These were not released under like their Freedom of Information acts, so the government doesn't want this out. So of course, as a retired government employee, he can't talk about things
that are still classified, which makes sense. It does make sense. So yeah, that's kind of interesting. So I think some people have said, oh, look, people's predictions that there were UFO files and the Snowden documents came true. I think that's kind of silly because even if you look at the wiki leaks, you know these are thousands of governments documents. There are people who report sightings and comment on sightings and things like that, so it's
inevitable that the mention of the the acronym UFO will come up. So I don't think it's like, you know, confirms anybody's beliefs, because these were not the object of the conversation here. But it is interesting and at least now you know what people have been waiting for is some kind of mention of UFOs and the documents and now they have them. Do you have them? Do I have what's that? The documents? Alohandro, you are the gatekeeper. Well, it's online, so you can just click the link. We
have the link where you can watch this PowerPoint. Yeah, and you're right, those images are interesting and it was kind of amusing to see the bird pooh comeback. Yeah. Do you have any speculation about what these might be referring to the same speculation you do, And that's all we can do is speculate at this point. Yes, I think some people will be disappointed that Nick Pope did a whole lot of nothing, but like you said, I really think that's all he can say. So yeah, exactly, and it
makes sense. Some people are, you know, saying, of course we'll read more into that, but I think his response makes sense. Yeah, I do too. So the warning I just want to mention just so people are right, I'm nervous about this. Yeah you should be. No, it's nothing to be too scared about, but it is coming up, and so just to give people heads up. A UFO author has gone online. His name is Nigel Watson and We wrote about him not too long ago because
he did this Haines manual on UFO. So the Haines manuals are a bunch of manuals on how to build stuff, how to build models, how to fix your car, how to do all kinds of different things. They've got lots of manuals how to type of stuff and interesting enough. You know, last year they did a manual on UFOs, so he wrote about the history of UFOs and everything, and the reviews have been pretty good that it was
a pretty good book. And this gentleman in the UK, which is where these manuals are made, has written a lot about a lot of other UFO
things, including abductions and stuff like that. But he was somehow found on a website for drone hobbyists people have quad copters and things like this a something that was called the Big UFO Project, where a bunch of these guys have been soliciting people all over the world to all fly their drone helicopters with LEDs at night at it at the same time on they were going to do it on April's First for April's Full's joke, but now they've changed it to April
fourth, but perhaps now that their story is out, they'll change date again. So he found that these people were going to do this, this this big, elaborate UFO hoax, and like he warned, you know, these things become huge and lots of times, just like the Canadian hoax we talked about, when people see it, they even if a mundane answer comes out, they're like, oh, no, that wasn't it. You know, it really was a UFO. It's not a quad copter or whatever, even
if the person who flew it admits to it. So if you see something flying around on April fourth or April fifth, actually just be a little hesitant and be a little more careful. It could be one of these quad copter clubs flying around their little craft trying to trick us. And then again a Lejandro, it could be that they know about real UFO's coming down and they want to distract us and tell us to not pay attention because it's just a hoax. WHOA, that's heavy, there's my war. Yep, Well,
thank you for your warning. It's heavy stuff. Hey, you want to scare people, I'll scare people too, all right, Well, is there anything else you wanted to mention? Their big jay. No, sir, that is all for me. All right, Well, thanks for talking some news for us with us, and let's go ahead and get to our interview with mister Jan Harzan. I am very happy to welcome to the show. Jan Harzan, the executive director for move On. Hello, Jan, great to be here. Thank you, Alejandra, Yeah, thank you. I'm
so happy you could take some time out to talk. And it's kind of funny because you know, you and I have spent quite a bit of time talking over the years, but I haven't had you on the show before. Yeah, it was the last time I think it was at our twenty thirteen Mofon symposium. So you're the new executive director. You have been since that symposium this summer. But I think a lot of people don't realize you've been with Moufon for a long time. Yes, I have. I actually over
twenty almost twenty five years now. Wow, and a lot of that. Well, what is your history with Muffon. Well, I originally discovered that there even was a Moufon back in the late eighties early nineties. I attended a UFO expo left out here in Los Angeles, very nice conference that I didn't even know existed, but stumbled upon and one of the booths there was a Muffon Booths, and so I came to know that Muffon actually was an
organization that did the study of UFOs, and that interested me. So I got involved and started attending the meetings up in Los Angeles, and then later joined the chapter in Orange County where I live, which was started back in about ninety five, And then you went on to run that chapter, is
that correct? That's right? About a year into that, the leader of the chapter at the time had to step down and she asked if I would take over, and georgiancefarely appointed me as the new state section director for county, and I ran it for the last eighteen years wow. And then at some point then and a few years ago, you also joined the business board of directors for Moufon. Right, that's correct. What happened was we ran our local chapter. I had a number of nice meetings and different things we
put together. We had a regular monthly meeting, and it came to my attention that the symposiums I started attending. All the symposiums starting in about ninety five as well, have been about every single one I've actually every single one since then. They're a great opportunity to get go out to network with other like minded people who meet the moof on hierarchy and just really do a great
job listening to speakers and learning new things. So I found out that at the time Wall two was the international director, was moving the conference around the country and he would do it one year on the West Coast, one year in the Middle West, one year on the East coast, and then one year in somewhere in the South. So he was moving around, and I found out in two thousand and one he planned to run it in the West
and so he would ask for bids for the conference. We don't really do it this way now, but so we put in a bid and actually won the bid. So we had the opportunity of actually starting about nineteen ninety nine to know that in two thousand and one we would be the host city for the international symposium, and we began putting together and it was a very successful
symposium. And after that Sehn Schusler, who had just taken over for Wolf after wal retired after thirty years of running Moofon, asked if I would join the business board, and so I agreed to do that, and I've been on the bus board ever since. M Yeah. So you have been experienced and involved with the administration with Moufon for several years now, that's right, and now you've taken over the the head job, that's right. Yeah,
that all comes to me. Yeah, so we'll talk about actually say, fortunately we have a great organization, a lot of wonderful volunteers who do the bulk of workload here at the headquarters office. You know, we managed the memberships and we make sure everything's running smoothly and the website and things like this, and of course we're intimately involved in the symposium, although this year we're blessed to have John Venturing his team out in Pennsylvania running that so takes a
little bit of load off of us. But yeah, we're just it's a very very busy time for us. M Yeah. And we'll talk about some of the great ideas well, some of the things you've already instituted which I think are great, you know, and the television show which is running.
But I wanted to talk a little bit more about your background because from our talks earlier, you know, at your motivations for not only your interests in movefound, but your interest in the career stems back to an incredible UFO event essentially that you had yourself correct. That's right. When I was matter ten, my brother and I actually had a very close sighting of a craft. We were within thirty feet of it, and that really alters your whole understanding
of the subject. It's one thing to believe that UFOs exists. It's one thing to believe that ET's are out there, but it's another thing to see a craft. This was in our backyard, which, interesting enough, is where most people see things is right up the back porch, right up the backyard, and it was a life changing let'st's put it that way. Yeah, could you do mind sharing kind of the details of that event? Oh? Sure, I'd be happy to. I want to start back with my
interest in UFOs. I mean, when I was young, seventy eight years old at that time, this was the early sixties. The newspapers, it was not in common to see a headline about flying saucers. I mean, they just published that all the time. And so my father had a Mend magazine. He would get there's true in argacy, and I believe it was in the Ergacy issue. I read an article by Donald Keyhole and the head of Nightcap at the time, and he was just talking with the whole subject
of UFOs. And what impressed me about the article was that this guy was a military officer and he spoke very elegantly and very forcefully about the fact that these things were real, that they're here, and that they needed to be
attended to. And so this kind of perked our interests, both mine and my brother Jeff, and so we started to play around with it, and we decided, well, maybe these things have some kind of a lookro magnetic type engine in them, because they're obviously calling off the earth or doing something of that nature. So we just decided that we would build ourselves a flying saucer, and we designed this little thirty foot craft with three pulse look mainetic
engines in it. Don't asked me where we got these ideas, we just did. It just kind of came to us, and we drew it up and we said, okay, we're going to build this thing. Well, my mother took us to the store one day and I think it was thrifty Drug and they had a little magazine rack and we saw down in the magazine rack a little magazine called the Flying Saucer Review, which was a half sized
magazine. If you took a normal sized magazine, cut it in half over that naked about a eight and a half bytso of eight and a half by eleven, it'd be like a four and a quarter by you know, five eighths or something like that. So it was a short magazine. But in the magazine there was an article in it that said, these flying saucers are seen around military installations, nuclear power plants, and places where anti gravity research
is being done. We say said, wow, you know we're going to anti gravity research craft though maybe one of these things we'll come to visit us. And we were just little kid at the time. We're just talking to and his betterman sitting. I was dead well about a month later. I was in my room on a Saturday morning, sleeping, and all of a sudden, my brother comes into the room and he says, hey, there's somebody trying to break into my my room. I said, well, did
you look out and see who it was? He said, no, I didn't look I see it was. It was just six thirty in the morning. So I said well, take a look. We went down to his room, took a peek. There was nothing there that we could see, and I said, well, let's go in the backyard and see. Now, this was about April time frame, right before the time change in those days they like saying happened in April. And it was very very light outside.
It was very bright, the sun was already up. And so we went down the hallway and they were walking down the hallway of the house. I'm looking back at and talking to him, and he says, look, can I spin around to look where he was looking straight ahead? And he was looking at a wall of windows. We had a plate glass windows in the living room with white white drapes in front of him, and the sunlight would come in back lighting it, and I didn't see anything. And I
said, my, well, what happened? What'd you see? And he said there was somebody standing against the window. I could see the shadow and when I told you to look, they floated backwards. Thought wow, you know, I thought, well, he's just pulling my leg, you know, he's just trying to get my goat. So, because we would kind of follow at each other and do things sometimes, so I said, well,
let's go in the backyard and we'll take a look. So we went into the garage and as we were getting ready to walk in the garage, that's where the kitchen was. It was a big clock in the kitchen. I noticed it said six thirty on it. Walked into the garage and then left out the back door into the backyard, and we walked to the end of the house and looked back towards his dinner window, where there was nothing there. Something okay, he just he's just you know, this is his
fun time. He's just you know, kidding me with this whole thing. And so we turned around to go back into the house. We didn't take two steps when all of a sudden, we looked to the left and there's this craft frozen in the sky, ten feet off the ground with landing gear on it, making this humming noise. Now, if you've ever heard of a transmission at nighttime, if you're walking by televin poles and the transformers,
they kind of make that hum. That was kind of hum that was making and it was just like froze like it was like just pasted in the sky thirty feet from us, and bright orange like a tank and these blue landing year on four of them, and then black suction cuts on the bottom lining year and then brown crossbars on the between the landing year with like a bolt in the center. So my first reaction I saw this thing was holy cow, these things are real. My second reaction was, wow, this thing
look like it's man made. Now. The reason I thought that thought was because I saw that bolt where the crossbars crossed. There's a bolt right there, like a scissors, almost like where it was a good scissor when it landed. But then I started looking at the craft and it was perfectly smooth. I mean there was not a seam or a rivet or a met or a bolt in the whole craft. It was completely smooth, almost like a
ceramic. And this was about nineteen sixty five April nineteen sixty five, so I think, I don't know that we even had that kind of technology back then. Frankly, I mean, we're riveting together airplanes of those days. So I said, wow, that's pretty interesting. So then next to my next thought was well, I need to get a camera. So I said to my brother, I'm gonna go to the house get a camera to be right back. Ran into the garage and turned to go into the house,
and we had locked ourselves out. Now, I don't even know if that's possible, honestly, because you know, I guess they could be. When we went out, maybe we just didn't unlock the door behind us. But I started pounding on the door as hard as I could, and everyone in helse was asleep. So after a few minutes, my older brother opened the
door and you know, he said, hey, what's what's up? And I said nothing else, ran the house to grab the camera and ran back out, you know, because I didn't want to take time and explained on me was on because I figured so ran out of the backyard and my brother was standing up on the swing set looking out to the west. He climbed up on the slide and was like as high as he could get himself, looking to the west over a hill which was to the west of our house,
and our house was going down a hill and it was gone. And I said to him, I said, what happened? He said, well, it's just hovered there for a second, perfectly still, and then all of a sudden started drifting to the west and then out of sight, just shot out of sight. And I had done you know, didn't get a picture of it, but it was an incredible, incredible fighting I mean, it really did a number on us. I have to say that. Yeah,
amazing. And didn't you say there was something funny about the landing gear. Well, the landing gear was correated like it was like almost like a dryer hose, you know, the cory goes in and out, in and out. And it was cobalt blue. So the craft was a bright orange which is cobalt blue, and then black suching top and then these these crossbars were brown with a bolt in them, and so it was very I mean it was very ornate. I mean it looked like it was painted. You
know. It's kind of funny because I told this story to Bill McDonald who's a good friend of mine, and his father at the time was the chief scientist for Rockwell out in Thousand os They had a think tank out there, and his thought was, well, maybe it was something my father, don't I said, well, Bill, it's possible. I mean, I'm not
saying it's extra tressurreal. I'm just saying it's a very strange craft. But I said, why would they be testing it at six point thirty on a Saturday morning in my backyard to me right, but you know, I mean, anything is possible. All I could say is I saw this craft. Wow, how weird? And so did you have a bit of missing time? Am I remembering that correctly too? Or was there some descriptions? Yeah? Many many Eight years later and talked to my brother about this incident.
He brought up the fact that, you know, which which is true, that my brother was not up. My older brother was not up when we went out, I mean, he was in bed asleep, and yet when we went back in his recollection was my brother. My brother was up I
mean because he was watching TV. So that was true. When he opened the door for me, he was sitting on the couch watching TV, which is kind of strange because we just walked out and he was asleep, and then I came back and knocked on the door to get in the house and he was up watching TV. But my my younger brother who I was with, claims that there was a TV show on and he named the Damely Show. I don't know f time my head, but he said that show didn't
actually come on till eight o'clock in the morning. So it's highly possible there was some missing time in the thing. Although I mean people have asked me, do you think you were taking I don't personally believe I was taken. It's very very possible my brother was taken because he has a very high IQ and he was actually the brains behind putting the craft we were trying to build together, so there might have been something they were trying to figure out about
him. I'm not sure how interesting. Maybe whatever you guys are building is a time machine and you were visiting your younger selves from the future. That's possible. I you know, it was just just young kids stuff. We're trying to just you know, we were always building a little rocket launching pads. Yeah, you know, telephones's elititary house with all sorts of electronics and that that we've built. So we were always My brother was very, very
smart. At eight years old, he was fixing the neighbor's television sets and things like that. So I don't know where he got that knowledge, but he always was far advanced in terms of being able to fix things and make things work. So so, and the electro magnetic engines you were using on your model, was that were you attempting anti gravity with your model UFO.
Well, we were trying to create the Pulst electromagnetic engines and figured there was something that was doing how they were interacting with each other, you know, interestingly enough, after this it's going to happen, we could lost all interest in building this craft. So that's another interesting if you think about it. I mean, because we were going down this path to do this, and then all of a sudden this event happened, and all of a sudden we
lost all interest in it, which is kind of funny. Yeah, that is weird. And so this event now then also influenced your career choice, is that right? That's exactly right. I mean because what it was appearing to me that the technology that this craft had, whoever's technology it was, was so far advanced that if we could figure out how to make it work and how to back engineer it, that it would just have incredible advances for mankind. I mean, here's I didn't require you know, ramming air over
wings to fly. You know, it was hovering on its own obviously, travel at a very fascinating speed. By the way it took off from what my brother told me and I've got other reports from other people craft that have shot off in this space at at enormous speeds that you know, if we had this technology and we could really transform transportation on this planet, I mean, which would be a good thing, because right now we're stuck with the
combustion engine. I'm not really stuck with it, but I mean that's pretty much our primary motor transportation on the planet is combustion engines. And it seems like oil is a major contributor to wars on the planet. So if you had something else besides that, this might be a good thing. So I was looking from the technology advancement of it, the energy systems, the propulsion systems, just the whole thing, and I thought this would be a great
thing to do. So I went to school to become an engineer to figure out how to build this thing. So it didn't take me too many cow many classes before I realized that what we're being taught in our schools is not going to help us get to where this thing is. So I did finish up my engineering degree at UCLA, and after that I went to work for IBM, and my thought there was that a company with the size of IBM, with the research budget it has, which is five six billion dollars a
year, might be someplace that would want to look into this research. But you know, again, this stuff is so far advanced that it's hard to talk to people about it and have them take it seriously. All I can tell people is that, hey, look, I thought, so I know it exists. So sometimes when you know that something exists, it makes it easier to go figure out how to make it, read up, replicate it. But I'm guessing unfortunately, you probably have not had the opportunity in your
professional career to work on anything like that. No, I haven't. No, personally, because I was in IBM in a sales and marketing position. I have had the opportunity to talk to two different senior vice presidents of research at IBM through my work process. You know, the basic answer you get is that's interesting. You know, we're we're looking at a lot of stuff on the internet. We're following all this stuff, you know, so if there's anything really to be known, we would know it. Kind of a
thing. It's it's the old you know. See, if if there really were UFOs, they would have told me. Yeah, you know, and You're like, well, I am telling you, yeah, exactly, I said it, I said, I said, well, all I can tell you is I saw it, and I saw it thirty feet from me, so it was real, you know, So use that as your as your basis. Yeah. I think our biggest challenge, honestly, in the whole field of euthology. I was going to write about this in an article here
in the next month or two and in the journal. Just it's just people's paradigms, you know, it's our biggest challenge. I told Stephen Greer back in the early nineties when he did the first disclosure disclosure project, I said, you know, this is great, Stephen, but you know, just because you share this data, I mean, same thing with Bassetts that last disclosure project just this past year, which was outstanding, I mean incredible people
up there on stage talking about what they've seen. And with incredible, you know, resumes. The problem is that the general public, I mean, we as humans have this defense mechanism, which is the ability to deny anything, even if it's in the front of our face. And I think that is our biggest challenge of getting this whole planet on board of what's going on. And trying to solve this whole mystery and get to the bottom of it. Is that people's belief systems, you know, paradigms what every want to
call it, just to block the ability to have major advancements. And what are your thoughts then on how we shift those paradigms or somehow help people to include in their paradigm this sort of phenomena. Well, you know, I think it's one person at a time, honestly, unfortunately. But what we're trying to do through Move On, and I know that you guys are trying to do through Open Minds is just put out incredible stories that people can see
and touch and feel. I mean, we're a data driven organization, so we get between five hundred and a thousand study reports a month, you know, and we groll through the with our volunteer field investigator organization and it's a lot of work for people. But you know, we get maybe sixty percent of that we find to be ifos, Chinese lanterns, you know, rocket launches, balloons, misidentified aircraft. But you know, when you call through it, we still find it. When we come from the other end,
we look for the most extraordinary type things happening. We find some very very keen cases. So it's you know, we're trying to publish those on our new website and make them available to people to review. And so I think they have to be open to looking at it. And not everybody is open to the subject of UFOs, but more and more people are. And I'll tell you the real believers. It's kind of funny, just the people who all of a sudden had their own sighting right, and then they flip immediately
from being a total skeptic to oh my gosh, it's real. I've got to go do something about it, which I just I'm amused when I see that. It's great. I mean to see people change serview play, but it's unfortunate. Takes a rock on my head to get them to do that. Right. Also, your brothers then, did he go into aerospace engineering
or a similar field? No, unfortunately. I mean this when you have a close encounter of this kind and I can kind of see from an experiencer or even an abductee standpoint, I mean, this is really shakes up your worldview. It turns you upside down. I mean, I think two weeks after this setting, I was just totally discombotulated. For lack of a better word, it just you know, you just your whole reality is shattered. I mean, you know, you're thinking, well, I'm going up in
a little community here at the little house with a white sense. You know, everything's great, you know, see, touch, feel everything, and everything's good, and all of a sudden something shows up that's completely out of
your out of your worldview, and it just shatters it for you. That happened for me that I turned that into drivings to go to to college to get an engineering degree to figure out how it worked, and then to go for uh, you know, corporate career that would possibly lead to the discovery of this thing. And in my own personal involved in a moufl and that's what word drove me from From my brother and from many people. It becomes
so unsettling. Unfortunately, he got involved in drugs and alcohol and he's now recovered. But but it's just totally I would say, destroyed his life. Oh you're kidding. So the sighting had a major effect on him, Yes, I I well, I believe it was because he believed it's because of the sighting and night terrors about it. So unfortunately, but but he's he's a you know, functioning member of society, and he's doing good. He's
doing better, but it didn't help his life much. I got to say that, well, that's amazing, and it's kind of interesting because I didn't know that part of the story. So prior to this, I thought, wow, this is a neat sighting. Whatever happened, you know, inspired you to move on to go in to work for IBM and be an engineer, but then and now also to help run move on. But I didn't know this other aspect, where this promising, you know, extremely intelligent person
his career or his was somewhat stemied from the event. Yeah, it really was. I mean I think he could have been well. I mean he's still very smart and very intelligent and basically runs like a repair business for fixing things. And this isn't anything he can't fix. I mean, he's just amazing that way. And he's never had any formal training in it. So I've always asked him, you know, how you done this, and he says, I don't know. I just had to. I just seem to
know how things work. And so I said, okay, So he's almost like a tefla kind of guy where he kind of it comes to him somehow, and you know, he's been doing very well. Now. I'm very proud of him, and you know he's helped out with move On in certain cases where he needed his help and was hoping it continues that way for him.
Yeah. Wow, Yeah, incredible. So that's really interesting. Another interesting story because we have this on the website where we did a video with you talking about this, and I've heard you talk about this for years, but I just wanted to kind of have you tell this story here because we get a little more time to kind of get the details of it, which I think are interesting. But your story of this encounter you had with Ben Rich, right, So I was wondering if you could share that sure.
I mean the Ben Rich story is basically, I'm an alumni of the Ushige School of Engineering and they have an association called Bolterer Associates, which I belong to. Basically, you know, you fund it's the annual fund for the school, and you pay so much money and then you become part of this thing so to honor and to basically continue to recruit people for this function they put on quarterly or you know twenty year functions, and one of the functions
they had. I got a mailer in the mail was that ben Rich would be speaking at the at UCLA to the engineering alumni. I believe it was March twenty third, nineteen ninety three, if I remember correctly. And so I got the notice in the mail and I said, Wow, let's lea. I got to go hear this guy talk. You know, he's just recently retired as the president's CEO of Locke Frunkworks, where all the secret aircraft
are built. That sounds like fun. So I called him my friend Tom Keller, who interestingly enough, i'd met at the Ufoxpo West where I'd have my first uphone conference I'd ever gone to, and we decided we'd go go to this together. He also had been a graduate of uc School of Engineering, but ten years before myself. I graduated in nineteen seventy six and he graduated I think in nineteen sixty six, are about there. So we went
to the conference. The meeting was about two hundred engineers. There, it's, you know, a little kind of reception, and then we all took our seats. I think Tom and I were in the front. Roo if I'm not mistaken. And Ben started off on this lengthy slide show. You know, remember this in ninety three, So he was doing slides of all
the craft. He started off with the U two spyplane, all the way up through the F one seventeen stelf A fighter, and talked about a whole bunch of different aircraft, you know, and it was a really nice presentation. But at the end of it, he concluded with the slide of a black disc zipping off into outer space, and he said, we now have the technology to take et home. And that's a quote, that's exactly what
he said. And then he stopped and the whole craft bust up laughing, and Tom and I were looking at each other like, why are these people laughing? They just said something very significant. But that was it, I mean, that was the end of the talk. And then he did some polite Q and A. And then after that most people start filling out of
the room. We're about i'd say twenty twenty five of us gathered up to the front where he was and we started talking to him, and so we were asking the questions like what's you meaning exactly when he said, you know, take et home? And this and that, and he was a little b koy. He was looking at the people aroun him, trying to forget who they were. At one point during the regular presentation, you actually mentioned that you saw a couple cia people in the audience, which thought was interesting,
and he basically shared a couple of thoughts with us. One was that there was an error in the equations, and we figured out what it was, and we now know how to take et home. So he wouldn't we asked. I asked them point blank what equations you're talking about? And he wouldn't tell us. I'm thinking it's either Maxwell's equations, which are the equations for liquormagnetic theory, or possibly some of Einstein's equations, but he wouldn't tell
us. So that was the only clue he gave us, and he just he also shared I guess when I was walking down of the room kind of jumped to the end here. After probably about thirty minutes of these people talking to him asking him questions, I chased him out of the room as he was walking to his car, and I was still inside the room, but I chased him across the room when he was walking out to his car, and I that mister Rich, mister Rich, you know, I just want
to say I really enjoyed your talk. I have a real fascination for what you spoke on the propulsions. Start was saying, can you tell me how this propulsion works? It will take us to the stars. And he looked at me. He looked at me like who. He kind of cocked and said like, who are you? You could see I can see his brain clicking. You know, why are you asking me this? Who are you? And he said, well, let me ask you a question. He said, how does ESP work? And I was like, I was flabbering.
I was like, you took two steps backwards. So I wasn't expecting a question. I was expecting an answer. And so the first thing that came in my mind I question we exactly? I said to him, I don't know. I said, all points in space and time are connected. He looked at me and he said, that's how it works, and he turned around and he walked out. Now I don't know if he was saying that all points in space time was a correct answer, or if he was
just saying that ESP is how it works. But it's interesting to me that that tie in how people have four knowledge of things and how things are all tied together in the universe has something to do with how this propulsion works. Yeah, really strange. Definitely makes you think. It makes you think. And you know, I've talked to help put off another scientist about this who've
been interested in knowing how it works. They're trying to figure it out now, Eric Davis, you know who works for how and the faster they have the faster than light planning where they're trying to come up with engines that will allow us to travel faster than light. It's just a whole lot of interest
in and I was pleased to hear I believe it's Golden. Now's the new director of NASA talking about how NASA's big push is faster than light travel and I thought, wow, that's pretty amazing that he would even be talking about that here. Ben Rich was talking about it twenty years ago. Actually us have actually having it, So that's that's an interesting thought when you start putting
two and two together on it. Yeah, which is interesting. I mean they Ben Rich worked on the most secret Air Force projects CIA projects, and those things didn't come to light. MULA. Yeah, exact later So the other interesting thing here is that sealth technology. If you look at the development
of stealth technology, the ability to be invisible to radar. The way that breakthrough came through was there was a Russian mathematician who had some equations which the Russians didn't really pick up on, but the Skuncourts had mathematicians working for them who did and they realized that, oh my gosh, if you build the craft that looks like this, you won't be visible to radar. And that's how they came up with the design for the F one seventeen. So that's
that's interesting. That's also a similar story to this one, which is okay, if you want to travel fashional light, it's all in the mathematics. So they looked at the mathematics and figured out what the air was in it, whatever that might be, it fixed, you know, fixed the air, and that allowed them to figure out how to travel fastness people light or let's it allowed them to figure out how to take eat home right right,
Wow, pretty amazing. So let's talk to move On and now that people have gotten to kind of know more about you and your vision for the future of move On and you certainly we've seen it. I think as a move on member, I've seen the changes which have been great. And I guess one thing we could first talk about is the TV show Hanger Won Sure, so just aired. Of course, our Open Mind colleague here, Jason McClellan was in it, and so we were all excited about it as well.
But I guess just to clarify a couple of things, they the actual hanger does not exist, right, No, No, the actual hanger does exist. It's a real hanger. But is it a moof on hanger. No, it's not a moof on hanger. However, it's located. I mean, there's no secret to this. It's located at Lunkin Airport in Cincinnati,
which is where Dave McDonald, my predecessor, had moved headquarters too. And there are actually three hangars on the airfield, Hanger one, Anger two, and Hanger three, and we had stored all the files and Hanger one. So the show the show. When it first we signed the paperwork on it
was back in twenty eleven under Clifford Cliff. So it's just been a project that's been in work for over three years and so it's gone through a number of different ups and downs, and then was ratified in late twenty eleven, and then Dave took over in early twenty twelve when Cliff had to step down do some family medical reasons and it actually expired, and then he resigned a contract in twenty twelve, and so I came in late mid to late twenty
thirteen. This project was well underway. In fact, they had already done a lot of filming on it, so that hangar was where we was, or the files they thought that. They took pictures of it, and actually the network said, Hey, that's pretty cool. Let's call it Hanger one. So that's how it got the name. Oh that's well, that's kind of cool. So there there is a Hangar one. And is I mean, is it the same hanger as in the show? Or yeah? Absolutely
yes, you're you're looking that you're looking to at the hanger. You're kidding. I did not know that. It's a really interesting looking It looks well. It is was built back in the twenties or thirties, and it has an interesting history behind it because Howard Hughes used to park his plane in there and he would meet his girlfriend. I think it was Geene Harlow. I'm not really a Howard Hughes buff but but and they would they would meet in that hangar. So it's got a lot of a lot of history to it.
Totally cap that is so interesting. I didn't know that that's cool. But they how about the interior shots? No, those are done somewhere else. Now, the interior shots are done somewhere else, right, Yeah, yeah, we yeah, we you know, it's it's you know, it's
a it's a TV. Yeah, they take liberties, they take liberties, and you know, we originally had started off wanting to be about the the just following investigators around, and unfortunately Network looked at that and said, you know what with the UFO Hunters and all these other shows out there, they're all the same. You know, we need to differentiate ourselves. So let's pick some topics and then see what we can find in the files and maybe
substantiate stuff. So that's kind of been what it's been about. We're hoping if we get another season this thing, we can actually move it back towards the actual cases. But I think the topics they chosen are pretty good ones. I mean, you know, us president, what they know I've talked to a number of people who were not particularly you know, keen on the whole UFO subject, and after they saw the episodes, they said, gee, I didn't realize that, you know, I didn't realize that this had
happened. I didn't realize that Truman had said that. I didn't know that, you know, Kennedy had done that with Bresne. I didn't know that, you know, Reagan had actually seen his own utphone and all the stuff documented. But it just doesn't get to the public. So it's more of
a public awareness program than anything else. I mean, I would love to be about the loop on it. That's usual with the great job to do, because they do work hard every day on but you know, most people won't watch I do a full investigation case because they don't tend to be too exciting. Frankly, they're pretty well I don't know, I guess, but I'm biased. I mean, like, you know, Moufin had a show several years ago that was like that, and I thought that was great.
I thought that was a really cool show. But who knows, we're not producers. Well, well, it was a good show and it didn't get picked up. Yeah, exactly. There were three three pilot shows done and then they never got sold. Yeah, exactly. That tells you. Yeah, so it's all about, you know, can you sell a show? So yeah, So I was just going to say the presidential files, now, those aren't necessarily move On files. They're investigations that move On people have
done. Is that correct? Like for instance, John Ventry says move On has in its files eyewitnesses to the ice and how are extraterrestrial meeting mm?
Is that true? Well, we do, well, we do have files on that whole event that happened from multiple sources, so you know from Lynn Stringfield, files from from newspaper clippings from we just put out on who's released the last week or week before about t W a pylo who called us who now he was the first hand witness, he was, but he but he talked to the first hand witness suit who had seen the event or heard about the event. We also have recordings from you know, Frank strangers and people
from the past. So I mean there is there is plenty of documented evidence in the files. Now, it's is a natural case file where a move On investory went out and talked to the president says no, it's not, but that there is evidence to back up the stories. Okay, got cham Cool? So yeah, when do you think there are or have you had any people saying in move on, Wait a second, that's kind of not our kind our case files. Why are we putting our caselves on TV or
what we are? No? You know like that with the presidential cases, that's not really a case file. Have you ever had have you had any backlash in that way with the show? Over all? The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. Cool. I mean, would we prefer to have, you know, just a specific case that we did? Absolutely? And I had a conversation with the producer yesterday, say, you know, we'd like to
steer it back that way if we can't. I mean, but to get something on the air, get it sold, you' see either you know, you have to kind of roll with the punches on some of the stuff to otherwise you're not gonna make it on the air, won't the show won't go. So the one thing I as you like about the show is it's different than other UFO shows. So it's gonna take topics and everyone's going to be different. So it's gonna be completely different. It's like UFO hotspots in America.
There's gonna be like Star Wars Weaponry. There's gonna be different shows on different topics, and they're going to try to use case files and and and actual setting reports to kind of tie back into is it possible that maybe this is something that we used to develop and get to where we are today. So it's gonna it's basically going to make people think about the whole UFO subject and how it has impact this as as a human species. So I think
that'll be a good, good way to go. I think people will like it. We'll see if there's a second season or not, and then where that goes. Mm hm, well cool. Yeah, it seems to be popular so far. I mean, I just uh, because people have been asking us about it, you know, especially with Jason in it. How do I watch it? How do I watch it? And I went to the H two site this morning to get the link and it showed it as the top of the most popular shows being you know viewed on the H two
site. Yeah, it actually was the number one show for Friday Night, which is kind of amazing. Since Ancient Aliens has been their number one show up at this point in time. Wow, probably because it's probably because it's a new, something new. People want to see something new, so so luvefully that will continue. And yeah, we're pleased with the response. It's a very positive response here at headquarters. Speaking of something new. Your website
which looks great. I mean, I think this website is really awesome. I think it's it's definitely befitting of a serious uh, you know, professional organizations which moved on is so are you? I'm sure you guys are pretty happy with it. Well, yeah, definitely. It's three years in the
making, a lot of hard work by a lot of people. When I took over in August, I grabbed a web designer that I had used for our symposium and I asked him if he could take the work and had been done up at that point in time and kind of improve upon it and actually come up with the graphics and the same tryan Silverburgs and outstanding artists and branders. What is real? Forte is and he auly he puts together a very
nice time and I was continue to change and evolve. We're really just trying to make it easy for people to get information and get links to things that they need, particularly the siding reporting data, but also just general articles on different topics. So I think we've got you features in there even now hundred, so it's hopefully we'll be a research tool for people. The other thing
is to help people kind of identify what they've seen. We're going to work on an IFO section, and that's underworks because a lot of times people see stuff and if they go to the website and they say, oh, this was a lenticular cloud en, that's what it looks like. That's what I saw, or you know, this was a Chinese lantern. Oh that's what
it looked like. When they're going up in the sky and you know, we want to kind of help people identify what they're seeing in the night sky because you know, you're not always out staring at the sky, and so you see something extraordinary like the International Space Station go overhead. I mean, first time you see it might startle you and say, oh my gosh, there's a UFO, but it's just something very very common. So we're trying to cut down on the number of reports of things we get that are just
IFO related. Something else you're doing, which is really cool. And this started, you know, I think a few months ago, prior to the website even coming out, but now you can find this stuff on the website is highlighting what a UFO case of the month and then like you did an alert recently where you will send out information on a particularly important report. Is
that correct, That's right. I'm trying to from a communication plan standpoint, we have about thirty eight thousand people on our constant contact list, and so the first week of the month, I am trying to put out the this is all being done by me, So I got a look for volunteers, know how to do this stuff. Offload some of this stuff, but I put out these CMS statistics. So a case management system is our exciting reporting
system, which is available to anyone. Can go in and search it, and we just give them a snapshot of here's how many exciting reports came in. Here's where they were seeing, here's kind of what they looked like. You know, from a shape standpoint. We may add the more more detailed to that as we go. So it's a quick blast just letting people know. Okay, you know, in France we had three reports this month, you know, in the state of Colorado, we had twenty seven or something,
so it's it's just a snapshot. And then I follow that up two weeks later with the case of the Months. And what I've done is at aster director of research who piles through all these things with a team of people who call through them to try to come up with our top ten for the year. Just give me a case, you know, it's an interesting case. And so we've had a couple. I think there's a boomerang case, and we had another interesting case that we've set up and those will be coming
out every month. So just trying to get people to know, Hey, UFOs are happening. They're not. They're not because I give this question all the time, like, you haven't heard anying about UFOs a long time, So are there really any anymore? Yeah, of course we get five hundred thousand reports a month, and I wish I could tell you those are all
extra treasholds coming here from another planet or not, you know. But but a lot of them are very very interesting cases that with some extraordinary things happening. So we're trying to put those out there to people just give them, to give them the broad brush here, wh here's what came in the last month and then give them up here's a case of interest. Hopefully we'll draw them to the website and they have them go do some more research because we
have other cases. We've got the newsroom now on the site. Roger Marsh is providing most of the content to that. We're looking for other people who are writers to participate in that. We can link back to your other sites if you're blogging right now. We're just looking for credible stuff that people can put up there and people can go research and review to see what's happening.
So yeah, so's it's coming together. I'm pleased with it. It's just it's you know, it's like we're on this treadmill and the treadmill is speeding up. So right now I'm in a dead heat run trying to keep up with all this stuff. Right, well, it's cool. I think what all of these things is our big deal? I mean for someone like me. So it's been a moof on an advocate for a long time, a member, investigator everything for a long time, you know, and people are
always asking about what about move on this? What about move find that it's awesome to be able to It allows us. It's people covering this stuff. When you all send that out to write a story on on, you know what you send out and then to demonstrate that move On is very active and there's a lot going on, getting a lot of reports and to show people well here's you know what they're doing, here's what's going on. Yeah. Absolutely, any self who can give us in that regard, we really appreciate,
or anyone else who's listening. You know, we want to be more open, we want to be more forthright with what's there. There's really nothing to hide. I mean, move on. Move On is just we're the data collectors for the world and we're just trying to make that available to the anyone who who needs it or wants it or and just trying to change, like I said, one one, one mind of the time through through hard
factual data. You know, it's the people. You know, You've got a long wide spectrum of people, everything from the medical bolts, you know, scientist type who if it doesn't you know, he can't feel, touch and see it, he doesn't exist, all the way out to the Yeah, I call him the crystal people, right, I mean the psychics, And so I always say move On is kind of left of the center, you know, we're closer to the scientist types. We're looking for the hard
data. But we're going to realize there's a lot of people out there with a lot of different views, and we're trying to at least accommodate some of those other viewpoints and let them have their time. Well, and you mentioned abduction and abduction research, and now I think it's a common miscon misperception people have out there is that move On isn't interested in that sort of thing. But you even have a director in charge of abduction research and absolutely, Kathleen
Martin, and she's the niece of Betty from Betty and Barney Hill. She's been a chief investigator on that whole case and does a wonderful job for us with her team of associates. Craig Lang. I'm just picking states there, but I believe that out of Minnesota, Craig Lang, and we've got Don Dundera who's a professor, retired professor out of McGill University, used to work
with Bud Hopkins and a number of other people on our team. You can look at it on the website, just go to who we Are and then the drop down menu has Abduction Research Team and click on it, and we actually have an abduction questionnaire where people can take answer the questionnaire and they will score it for you and tell you, based on the questionnaire whether how likely it is you were an abductee, you know, from a actual scientific waiting
standpoint. So, and then we also provide a lot of services in terms of helping people find therapy because people who've had these experiences, like I've said, for some of them at a very terrifying event, it really disrupts their lives and makes them so they CANbus can't function unfortunately, and they need help and they're reaching out for help, or sometimes they they just need to find other people who have had similar experiences that they can talk to, because when
they talk to their family, they don't get a whole lot of it empathy. It's like, you know, they're ostracized. So, yes, we are very much interested the production phenomenon. We're trying to approach it from a scientific standpoint. We also know that people want help and we're helping trying to provide that for them through a referral service we provide. And then one more thing I want to mention. Just another cool feature on the website to get
people to check it out. Is this UFO Photo of the Week that is also going up there. Really interesting because people are so visual they want to see pictures exactly. You know, that was my biggest complaint about our last website. We didn't really have anything visual on it. So I've asked the team to pull a picture every week out of our CMS database and post it on the site. So I've actually got it reminded. I've got to get
on that, make sure that happens this week. But over time then we'll have the whole collection of you know, fifty after a year, we're going to have fifty four photos up there there. Now, we can't guarantee that every single one as an alien craft, but what we can do is to our photo analysts and different things, we can determine that photos haven't been altered, that you know that in fact, it's something of significance to you.
After a major investigation, it may turn out that what was posted turns out to be something very terrestrial, in which case, in which case we'll let them know that. So yeah, we're just trying to get the word out there. And I think You're right. People are visual and I think that's kind of stuff that they like to see. Cool. Well, right off the bat, I mean there's a ton of information at this website, So anybody who hasn't been to this site can go there and stay busy for a
few hours, I think, reading and looking at information. Absolutely, We've got videos posted, We've got articles that have been posted. We're gonna have a lot more coming up on the website. It's going to this constant flow of new information daily on it, so you want to go back again and again, So just go to moufon dot com and enjoy. Well, this is cool, it's exciting. I mean your efforts and the website and then
Roger Marsh always writing about the siting. It means it'll be a lot more a bigger flow of information out to people about what you guys are up to. And I think, really that's what people have been interested in, and now they're getting it in abundance, not that they weren't getting it before,
but even more so now, which is really exciting. Yeah, and I think that's what people have been requesting, like you said, and we're hoping to deliver all right, great, and then people also other things that are going on. I guess the symposium will be coming out here to compose absolutely, that's coming up the July seventeenth through the twentieth at the Crown Plaza and Cherry Hill, New Jersey. You can click on our website on the right
hand side homepage. There's a little TV set. Click on that and you can get the speaker information and all the where, when, what, whyse for the show and we're looking forward to having hosting all of you there in July this year. All right, great, well, thank you so much. I think we're pretty much out of time, but thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. Really interesting stuff and it's really exciting everything going on with mof on right now. Yes, let's talk again.
Thanks are yep, thank you, thank you? All right, thank you to Jan And of course you can go see mofon in their new website at moufon dot com. Really cool website and they've got a lot of information on there now for people to go look at, and it's a great website. They needed a new one and whoever put that together did a really really good job, So go check it out at mofon dot com. And of course were latest UFO news and the news that we talked about earlier in the
show. You can go to the Openminds dot Tv. We also have our YouTube channel that you can check things out there, including Spacing Out, and there'll be a new episode of Spacing Out, I believe later this week, so you'll be able to check that out. Of course, that's where Jason and Maureen talk about all of the UFO news on and it's a video web series that we have, so Openminds dot tv to find all of that.
I also, as usual, want to thank the people who put together our music, and it's actually just one person this week, and that is Caleb Hanks. He put that opening music together for us specifically, but he also does his own music and he's put out an EP. I talked about this earlier, but it's pretty cool. Caleb has given me permission to play songs from that EP at the end of every show, which I want to do because I think they're really cool. I think he's done a great job putting
these together and I think you all would really like them. So you can go look for the EP. Just go look for the clerk Caleb Hanks. You could Google that I'll put the link up on the radio site, but well, we already have a link up there. I'm pretty sure. But this song that we're going to play at the end of the show so today
is called Vision, So I guess it's Caleb's vision of the future. And you wouldn't know it, but Caleb is so serious in this music, and you know, it sounds like, you know, he's getting into some deep topics and stuff, but he's actually really goofy. He's a goofball. He's sillier than I am. Super silly guy, super cool guy. But anyways, check out the clerk. We will talk to you later. We'll be on next week with Patty Greer talking cropsicles, So we'll talk to you next
week. People, Adios mucatos, even lock never a one day. Well then do you think that dially like Machine or Red and Us any better? Chically? I would rey? Am I only one that Monday? Ms my mind up up, my st