Welcome to Open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network. Alejandro who has been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for nearly a decade and has long hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news
regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome to Open Minds Radio, where we're bringing you the best in UFO news and information. This is Alejandro Rojas and we have an exciting show today. James Peniston is on and this is really cool. He was on Coast to Coast a couple of days ago speaking with James Fox, and he was actually in
our office. James Fox. He's a big fan of our magazine. If you haven't checked out the magazine, you're going to be able to do so on June first, and we're doing some special promo stuff and the Barnes and Nobles and Borders, so it'll be easy to spot. You'll have to go check that out and go in there and just hang around where the promo magazine stuff is and just kind of tell people as they walk by, look at this, this is so cool and that would be a lot of help for
us. So don't scare them away, but be really excited about it. So we're really excited about the big promotion that's going to be going on with the magazine. But it's great. You can also of course go to Openminds dot tv to check that out and order it as well. But James Peniston was actually one of the officers or the US Air Force. He's a staff sergeant working security at the Bentwaters Air Force Base and it's actually a Royal Air Force base. It's a UK base that was lent out to the Americans to
use. When in about nineteen he was out well, they were just at the gate doing their regular security stuff and they saw some lights in the forest. He actually went out there and was able to investigate and you may have seen him on Larry King where he talked about actually seeing this vehicle and touching it. Now, there were two incidents. This was the first night.
The second night is when Colonel Halt, Charles Halt, was and he was unaware of this original event because they didn't let them talk about it in this
second event the next night. That's the event most people are aware of that was on Unsolved Mysteries, I think in Sightings and everything, where these guys went out in the forest and they recorded the audio when they were chasing around a light in the forest, and you know, we're able to see this thing fly off and everything, but in that incident, they weren't able to get close to the craft like mister Peniston was. So I'm really excited to
talk to him because it's an absolutely amazing event. And this event made it into the public eye when official documents were released by the Ministry of Defense, so that's how we know this happened. We haven't heard anything official from the United States Air Force on this case, so it's it's an incredible event, and some people say it's the most documented, the best UFO case in history. So and if you heard our show with Nick Pope not too long ago,
he referred to it a lot. So this is an exciting case. We'll have James on in a little bit, but I want to talk about a couple other things. On April thirtieth and Scottsdale, we're going to be at Vision Quest bookstore again that some of the editors and stuff for the magazine, and we'll be talking about just answering questions and stuff like that. April
thirtieth at seventh May twenty eight. April thirtieth was in the past, actually, someone reminded me, so you don't have to get your time machine. May twenty eighth. You can come out Roswell. However, we will be in Roswell as well, and that's going to be from July first to the fourth, and that is their big festival out there in Roswell, So you still have time to book your hotel and come and drive or fly out there
to Roswell, New Mexico. Of course, the site of the alleged UFO crash in nineteen forty seven, a case that is on par with the Rendalstim case of course, that you'd love to use the phrase the such and such Roswell and rendal Stim is referred to as the UK is Roswell. But before we get into our interview, of course, we always cover UFOs in the news, and these are the conventional headlines the news that is going on out
in the world. And we have our news correspondent, Jason McClelland to share the news with us Hello Jason, Greeting, Zalejandro, Hello Phoenix, and Hello World. This is your Open Minds News brief for Monday, May seventeen, twenty ten. In the News this week, there's more news stemming from comments made by fame physicists Stephen Hawking last month in his new television series Into
the Universe with Stephen Hooking. When positing the existence of intelligent extraterrestrials, he advised humans to avoid contact with aliens because he feels that aliens are likely to invade our planet and drain all of our resources, and he cited human behavior as his basis for this belief. In response to Hawking's comments, the Journal
of Cosmology has compiled responses from several scientists. Some criticize Hawking for using human behavior as a measuring stick to guess what aliens might do, what others thoughts was quite reasonable. While these scientists weren't all on the same side of this debate, they all seem to agree that alien life forming alien life exists. Yeah, I mean, that's such a popular belief these days amongst science.
It's very very exciting, and like you said, some people agree with Hawking, so it's sad that others are so critical, not to say, you know, necessarily I'm either way, but people have their opinions. We don't know what's going on yet. Well, and again this is the one comment that everybody's focusing on. Yeah, Hawking said a lot of things, but
this is what it is latching onto. Good point. And this adds to the evidence behind the article you wrote in January about how scientists are in fact interested in this topic exactly, and that you know, Nick Pope had talked about when they had their astrobiological conference recently that behind closed doors, a lot of the scientists were talking about this kind of thing, about the speculating about
the reality and something being. There's something being behind this UFO thing. In related news, another scientist who agrees that alien likes exists, Arizona State University professor Paul Davies, had an op ed piece published in The New York Times last week in which Davies discussed his thoughts on the hidden alien biosphere consisting of microbial life, or life two point zero as he calls it here on Earth. In NASA news, a NASA spacecraft may have been hijacked by aliens.
That's according to a German UFO expert who claims the Voyager two, a NASA space probe launched thirty three years ago, has started transmitting strange signals from its location near the edge of the Solar System. NASA has only responded by saying it's engineers are working to solve a data transmission fault. That's kind of weird. What's funny that this story has gotten so much news, because of course there are people saying all kinds of different wild conspiracy theories, but this one.
You know, at first one of the stories I saw was a German scientist, but he's not. He is a UFO researcher, but yeah, he believes it's been kidnapped and to communicate with humans. It's interesting to note that when NASA launched the probe thirty three years ago, they installed a twelve inch disc containing music and greetings in fifty five languages in case intelligent life ever came in contact with it, which is kind of cool, thinking that they
assumed or thought that there might be alien life planned ahead. Yeah, and I've always thought with this twelve inch disc aboard this thing was launched thirty three years ago, so I think of a twelve inch record. Yeah, gold record, a gold record in space and aliens coming on it and finding this record not knowing what to do with it, but having all sorts of music like Fleetwood Mac and the Eagles, and they're trying to dam it into their
hologram player and it's not and it just doesn't work. Yeah, or it's all melted from space. But in fact it's actually a gold plated copper disc. And the song selection they used is large largely classical music, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, so it's mellow stuff. So they don't hear something except for Johnny b Good. Oh really, yes, Chuck Berry,
hopefully they don't hear classical. Get to Johnny be Good and then decide, oh, we we're gonna just kind of avoid these guys and that now we're going to attack because they have this wild crazy but they might like rock and roll, so good thing they included it. Yeah, we'll see. In other news, President Eisenhower was allegedly briefed on the presence of extraterrestrials. Statement
made by a former representative from the state of New Hampshire. Henry W. McElroy claims to have seen an official brief to President Eisenhower concerning extraterrestrial life, and the brief allegedly revealed that extraterrestrials were president in the United States, they
were benevolent, and could a meeting could be arranged for Eisenhower. Other claims have been made that Eisenhower secretly traveled to Air Force facilities in nineteen fifty four and nineteen fifty five to meet with representatives from more than one extraterrestrial civilization.
Yeah, there's a lot of people trying to verify some of what he said, or at least to confirm his credentials, and so far, I mean it seems that he really was is a politician or recently retired, So very interesting statements, of course, and what a lot of people believe to be true. So I'm really interested, as in everyone else, I think, in this build as to the follow up and what more this guy has to
say. Yeah, that was interesting. He made his video the statement, and that sort of been very, very very popular this week and last week, I guess put it on YouTube and everything, right, and in lighter news, the runaway UFO like balloon that the world thought was carrying a six year old boy who will now forever be known as the balloon Boy is back in possession of the parents who pleaded guilty to the hoax that occurred back in
October. Richard Heen and his wife staged the hoax in an effort to get attention for a reality TV show, but in reality, what they got were jail sentences in a thirty six thousand dollars fine that will go to the agencies
that responded to the hoax. Oddly, when Richard Heen went to pick up his balloon, he asked officers to let him measure it because he wanted to make sure it was in fact his balloon, like they would take it and replace it or apparently a lot of people have balloons sitting in the police walk up. Make sure he got the right one, get the right balloon. Weird. Yeah, obviously he's a strange guy and not very cool the stent he pulled, So no, he did this time he paid for his crime.
That's right. And in non UFO related news, Alejandro and I will both be at the Clubhouse in Tempe, Arizona on Thursday night for a concert the Cherry Popping Daddies. So if you love neo swing music, rock music, good music. Come down to the clubhouse in Tempee and Alejandro and I will be there. Yeah, we'll be Do you swing dance? I do swing dance, really, I do. I can't wait to see well, i'd be able to see you swing dance. I'm a little rusty, well
off the dust off my shoes. Make sure you have a couple of drinks and do some swing dancing. I can do that if requested. That should be exciting because, of course, one of my favorite movie scenes is just because it's Cameron Diaz is the mask with the cherry pop and daddies and Chief dances. That's actually not the cherry popping daddy's I thought it was. That's Royal Crown review. Oh, Royal Crown Review. How funny. Well,
still she looked great. That's it for the news. Remember to check these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. I'm your Open Mind News correspondent Jason McLellan, and you've been briefed back to
you, ale Andro. Yeah. A couple other just from today news things that I guess I could talk about is Gary McKinnon and there are some rumors his wife and on another story, this unreleased source that he's actually going to get a stay because the new Prime Minister had said he would be cool about this whole thing. And not confirmed yet, but the rumors say that it's looking likely. Yeah, that would be interesting after tons and tons and tons
of denials, that he actually gets to come home. How many years has this been going on stay home? I should say it's been going on for years. Yeah, a long long time. So you know, let the guy say out there, he's going to do time either way, leave him, leave him out there. Yep, we'll see. But according to the rumors, we no soon. The bricks are terrified of us crazy Americans too.
All right, we will be back with James Peniston to talk about the Renderlscham Air Force incident where a lot of US Air Force officers saw UFO. So stay tuned to Open Minds Radio. You're listening to Open Minds Radio with Alejandra rojas Im KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. Welcome back. I want to remind everybody that you can go to Openminds Dot GB and watch us live while we do the show. As well. You can maybe even catch a
glimpse of Maureene back there. Who, thank Goodness Goodness was able to correct me on the May twenty eighth date for the Scottsdale event where the Open Minds editors will be at Vision Quest Bookstore at two two to two five North Scottsdale Road to talk about the magazine, and the second magazine is going to be out June first. I am so excited about it. It looks great. It's mostly about the Vatican, but we also have a cattle mutilation story in
there from the mutilations that happened in Colorado last year. We have some early Mayan type of omens where they were seeing weird things in the sky before the Spaniards came to conquer them. So there's some cool stuff about that. So a lot of really great stories and of course lots of history on the Vatican, a little bit of conspiracy, but also some real history behind the Vatican and others than just Coroado Balducci and some of these other recent scientists talking about
the existence of extraterrestrials. There have been monsignors and stuff like that believing in this kind of thing and talking about it at the Vatican for quite some time. So you're going to have to check out the magazine to hear more about that. However, we have a great guest on today. We've got James Penniston. Are you there, James, Yes, I am wonderful. Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm very excited about it. Well, thank you for asking me. Yeah, you had looking forward to
it. Thank you. You had one of the most incredible experiences in the whole Rendelsham Forest events. And then yes, go ahead, okay, you know well the event happened in December of nineteen eighty while I was assigned to ref would Reach and at Waters. It was dual base that was separated about three miles each of the bases, and in December I was called out to the East Gate and they weren't tell me on the radio what was going on in the East Gate, but I went out there and the brief beings at
the senior patrol and said that something had landed in the woods. You know, I could see that there was something out there, you know, on different colors were emily out of it. So I thought someone was on fire.
So I asked to go off base to investigate what I thought was a possible aircraft on him and I assembled a team with myself, Aaron, John Burrows and Aaron Cavanzac, and we went off base and drove as far as we could, which is about one hundred and fifty yards, and it took us spout, you know, to the five downs to get there, right and as we started approaching the woods, we could starting to see a very very bright light coming out of the woods. Burrows who saw the thing land?
Yeah? Initially it was John Burrows and Bud Stephens. Bud Stephens was the senior law enforce patrolman that was out there that night, and then John was riding with him. How did they describe the object that they had seen landing? Well, when I when I asked Budd, well, you know, I said, did you know did the crash out there? And he goes, oh, no, he says that landed. I said, what do you think it was the chopper? He goes, no, it's it's something else. And I said, oh, I said, you sure landed?
Yeah? He says, you know, it definitely landed. And so I discounted it. You know, it didn't make sense what he was saying. How was their disposition? Were they kind of antsy? Were they amped up and excited? Or they were highly concerned. Mm hmm, yeah they were. I would put it more perplexed. Okay, yeah, very perplexed over it. And uh and uh but matter of fact, by I wanted Budd to come off with go with the off base, and he said, there's just no way to him. I'm going out there. Wow. And
was he a security officer? He was law enforcement. These security police is broken in the two fields. A security police which does flight line and they you know, the priority resources like aircraft and things like that. That's what I was. And he was law enforcement and heeded more domestic stuff on the base like a radio policeman. Wow. And they were afraid to go out so they're just out there watching this thing. I'm not going out there.
Let's call pension, let's send him out there. Well I was. I was the senior UH security policeman on the base. I was in charge, right and and and normally protocols would have called for me to go out there anyway, as there was a down aircraft to set you know, after control points, an emergency response vehicles, stuff like that out there. So anyway, we got to uh getting towards the tree line and we had to set a radio relay because of the radios were having really severe interference, and so
I used their companzac for that. And then John and I went inside the woodline in the woodline there and as we got inside there, uh the light which was so bright you get you were squinting, you know, looking at it. It started to dissipate as we got closer to it. And as we got closer to it, you know, a shape was starting to form from it, you starting to silhouette from because it was dimming and there was just some red and blue lighting running through the fabric of the craft. And
it was a triangular craft sitting there on the forest floor. How strange the light dissipated as you approached, Yes, it did, well, it did. Otherwise though you want to be able to look at it and you say how far was it laying on the ground. It appeared to be sitting on like you know, uh, landing gear or something like that. I couldn't really tell because of the way the shape of the craft was it. And
I never did see landing gear on it. Okay, so and did but did that leave impressions in the ground, So they must they must have had planting gear. How large was it? Well, when I measured it out, it was about nine feet long, about and a half seven feet high,
very small. Later we found out because of the ground temperature that when they measured it, they had a way of testing it with the ground temperature, and they estimated it weighing about seven tons, which is just very light for any type of aircraft, at least the you know, compared to like a fighter aircraft, which weighs like twenty six twenty seven tons. So in that in the pictures I've seen, it's kind of at a triangular craft with
a flat sort of top with another kind of triangle protruding out right. But that's that drawing. I believe that's what I did, And I'm not a very good artist, uh, neither of the Actually the craft was very smooth. There was no defined, uh lightings on it. I mean, it was very smooth, but it was triangular, and it did have a you know, the center of it did rise over the rest of the craft itself.
So it did have a unusual appearance. And you're saying the outside of it was a fabric and so it didn't look like it was a solid hard metal. Oh, it was metallic. The the that's just the term that we used for this and of the craft is we called the fabric of it. It was black, very opaque, like black glass, but it felt like metal. And it did, like I said, had swary lights that would run balls of light actually size of plate size that would run through the
fabric of the craft, which is just really really strange. The whole thing was just really strange. Wow. Yeah, I've never in my in my entire career ever, nothing ever prepared me for Reste in that night. Yeah, it was. It was very different, how strange. So you could see below that into the metal or something, and there was a light going around it, and did you say various colors of light right, red,
blue and and running together or you just to also see some orange. But it was it ran from the front of the craft of what appeared to be the front with the side I was facing, and then it would run all the way around it. I mean, it was a very strange effect. Did that effect seem to change at all in relation to your movements or your
closeness to it? No, that it had no effect at all. And you know how close I was to it, as a matter of fact, even when I was up to the craft, you know, looking underneathy and he says, and checking out the material of it. I it never affected it. I was actually when I was, I was concerned at that point, when I knew it wasn't an aircraft crash, I was concerned of the
you know, the the threat to the priority resources of the base. So I had to determine whether it was hostile or not hostile, whether it was friend or foe. Well, we've got to take our first break, but we'll talk more about this amazing event as soon as we get back from this break. You're listening to Open Minds Radio and we're talking to James Pennison. To stay tuned. This is Open Minds Radio here again your host UFO paranormal
researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Hello, this is Alejandro Rojas and you're listening to Open Minds Radio. We're talking to James Peniston, who is a staff sergeant in the US Air Force and the day after Christmas, I believe in nineteen eighty and he's telling us an incident where he had walked up upon some strange craft sitting on the ground in the forest outside of a base in the
UK, Yes, exactly right. Like I was saying, for Will and Break is I had to determine if that craft was hostile or non hospitle and or a threat to the resources. And you know, after you know, five to ten minutes of walking around it and looking at it, you know, and there it had no apparent aggression at all or a matter of fact anything and didn't do anything. How are you feeling, were you especially when you first came upon it? Oh? I was. I was pretty worried.
Yeah, I would think it's pretty brave of you to have stayed there, because I know, you know, when you hear stories of others coming across strange things or or things landing, they usually run the other way. Well, I actually would would probably liked to do that. My tight job was to make sure it wasn't a threat. Right when I found out it wasn't a crash, and you know, nothing happened in the five to ten
minutes, so I called it in a determined it wasn't a threat. It was seemed to be non hostile, and you know, I started to do my investigation of it. I started to do the you know, the measurements and the walk around I did a three sixty walk around the craft and and uh the I was looking for things like you you know, the exhaust, the intakes, crew compartments. It was all voided all those things that had nothing like that had the whole things at all. What was going through your
mind at the time, What were you thinking of? Was or oh I I I knew the it was a craft unknown orangin I knew that. I mean I think I think I was just the feeling that probably overwhelmed me is probably astonishment. I was. I was in awe, right, Yeah,
it was. It was a very unusual event. See, I would think, at least personally, being a researcher in this field, that that would be you know, that's a perfect incident where you would walk up on something like this not be frightened, be able to have that awe because you always think that's that's what you would feel, But then often people when they seem to have that chance, get frightened. It took me about ten minutes to
calm down. I mean yeah, I mean I was making my scurity checks and things, but it took me that long to calm down where I got to that point, I just yeah, it was it was actually terrifying. I mean that, I mean, you know, initially when I found it was a crashed aircraft. You know, so did you start even right then to to start to form the opinion that this wasn't of human origin? Well,
it was pretty obvious. The the technology for something like that. It's you know, I said, well, you know, I have to have engines. I knew it had to have engines. It seemed powered. I don't know, you know, because of the lighting and stuff. Did it make any noise? Absolutely, it was sound running. Uh started running, no sound at all. And did you touch it? Yes, I actually
examined the craft and went around and fallow it. And when I got around to the one side, that's when they of all this amazing stuff that's going on in front of me. Uh, this was even more amazing. There was a like a pictorial etching writing on the side of the craft, right. And you know, so I have my notebook that I was recording everything that I was seeing, and you know, I wrote I had drawn them out of my notebook and and uh a matter of fact, Uh, one
of the uh the producer that did I know what I saw? I was telling him, as James Fox, I was telling him, Uh, you know when I when we did that movie, I did the movie, the documentary, I said, I hate this is my book. And I showed them a book. He says, my god, he says, it's closer. You got to the craft, he says, instead of recording stuff. He says, the where's your handwriting? Gout? I says, I was a nervous wreck. I says, uh, you know I I was shaking.
Yes, m Jo. And you saw some characters that were on or some some type of lettering or something on there, some shapes. Yes, they were like a pictorial type of drawing. And anyway we had we've had them since analyzed and by Cambridge University a professor over there, and I guess his conclusion was this is a typothesis. His conclusion was as mathematical, yeah,
which was interesting. And then the odd thing that happened just a few weeks ago, I was sent a email on a similar pictorial type of drawing that I've done something like four hundred years ago from Japan. Wow. Incredible, Yes, and that just blows my mind. I did. I said, how in the world can that be? How can something has been recorded four hundred years ago be on the side of that craft that night. Yeah, unless they had a similar incident four hundred years ago. Well that's what
that's what this. It was on the History Channel and they actually were describing that it was something that happened over in Japan, and they actually drew drawings on this the incident. Oh was that on that Ancient alien show. I'm not sure the exact show on the channel, but you know, I only had a piece of it this sense of me. So wow, that's amazing. I find it very amazing. I'm looking at these pictures now, I'm looking at the Earth file site. Actually, if you google probably James Pennison,
you'll be able to see the symbols. But yeah, it's interesting that they're mathematical because they don't look mathematical. Well I didn't say, well, that's the last thing I would have thought too. Yeah, but who knows. They said that someone I'm not I'm not going to say this, right, the banachi banaki are you familiar with? I might say that, correct, I'm not shacky. It's it's apparently everything is in threes, the ancient Smerian thing. Oh, yes, thank you very much. Okay, yeah,
I need help on that. Yeah, yes, and that's what was his analysis, he says that, And he says he actually thought that this would be something that you'd place on a craft that would show it was a high levering craft. It was just to denote what this craft was. It looks like a surveyor or it looks like a drone type of craft. That was it analysis. So and I did read that you touched the craft and you touched these letterings. What did the craft itself feel like? And how
did these this etched kind of lettering film or picture. Uh, the actual fabric of the craft felt completely smooth, and uh, the air temperture out there at the time is probably I don't know, thirty six degrees thirty seven degrees made and uh, the the touching the craft, it was warm form to touch. And then when I got to the symbols, Uh, the best way to describe that is they they they were part of the fabric the
craft. But it felt like when I went from the midst the material on the craft to the symbols, it felt like I went from a smoothness to sandpaper. So they're like etched in the in the side of the craft. Interesting, Well, yeah, they were about three three three feet long and they measured about six inches high. Mm hm. So you watch this thing. You you were take looking your notes on everything that happened and walking around the craft. And then what happened, Well, then the lighting on the
craft changed. Its started to be emanating a stronger more of the white light again. And so myself, I got back with John's there and I got back with John and we took like a defensive position on the ground, not knowing that I didn't know what it was going to blow happen. Yeah, it wasn't sure. And it started getting very very bright to where he had a squint again, and it lifted off the ground to tree top level with absolutely no sounds, no air displacement at all, and then it was littery
gall in the blink of an eye. Wow. Yeah, it was so incredible, it was it was Yeah, I guess that's the word to use, is that, I don't know if there's a word to use. And I was and then you know, after after that took off him and I looked over at John and he looked at me, and I says, John, I said, how are we gonna explain this? Right? He just
looks at me. He was speechless, So I think the yes. I think it was John who had said that he was recommended that if he ever experienced anything like that or sign anything strange, just to keep it to himself and not report it because he just get too much trouble if he did, well, the Air Force did frown upon reporting that type of phenomena after the
Blue Book was ended in sixty nine. I believe it was. And you know, it's just a real way of reporting it up showing the reports when we were de reefed the next day with the day shift commander, you know, that was one of the things he told us. He says, I'm not sure how we're going to report this. He says, the Project blue Book was closed, right, and he says something. He says, Well, we're gonna treat you this top secret. He says, you can talk
about it. And what I want you to do is, you know, we're gonna give you some time off and we want to give notes and get these reports done for it, and we'll go from there. Yep. All right, Well, we'll talk more about the aftermath of what happened to this sighting and if anybody wants to call in after this break. You could call one eight sixty six five three six eleven hundred. If you're watching on the
website and you're you're not in the Phoenix metu area. If you are in the Phoenix Mictuaria, you can call six oh two two seven seven five three six nine. So we'll talk more after this break about what had happened when they went into report this incredible incident and what happened the next day. Stay tuned to open Mind's Radio. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now former officials, folksperson for the Mutual UFO Network, Your host of Open Minds
Radio, Alejandro Rojas. That's me, Alejandro Rojas, your host for Open Minds Radio. We're talking to James Peniston and some people and the chat are asking about this incident and they're talking about the tapes that were made and the tapes they're referring to James, that was a sighting that then happened the next day, right, Well, they're talking about the radio traffic. Uh huh,
I mean all that was recorded at the wing command post. Oh, your radio traffic, all of it was yet okay because I know I was just one of the television shows I think had played halt recording where he recorded their traffic as well, right, and he also did the UH the hand recording that he had he was out there, and I was on the second night with all that, that even makes you know, the whole thing just
more bizarre. And you know, it was a one of a kind event with me and and then for it to happen three days later again with more witnesses and more experts out there and and radio detection and radioactive equipment and starlight
scopes and everything else that and and here's the thing we found out. We only found this out that we were doing another documentary back in now a few years ago, and we were actually over and runs from forest and when it came down to going to the site and so were you going where you going? Talk? And he says, well, I'm going to the landing size th it's over this way. We discovered there was two landing sites that time because there was just so many similarities. The farmhouse was the same, this
would have a farmhouse, I mean, everything was the same. Yeah, I remember that time. Yeah, we never even thought about the UH having the possibility of two landing sites. Mm hm. So what it means there was two type of craft. Two craft landed. So and was that the same night or the second incident was three days later? The second incident was three days later, okay, And and that one was with Colonel Halton, if I understand correctly, the second group was not even aware of your incident,
Okay, but not every everybody else in the team. And actually Colonel Halt went out there to debunk it. I mean he was he was the first debunker, and he wanted to go ahead and just put it to bed and and find out a logical explanation for what was going on. Wow. And yeah, and he went out there and he became part of it. I mean, he got into something that he couldn't explain either. Yeah. Those are the audio tapes I've heard several times which are so interesting that they're
just baffling out there running around. So what was the reaction when you went back and you reported this? Well, when I when I, when I got back to Central Security Control started channeler. He was the flight started for for both bases, I says, started channel He would not believe the situation out there, he said always, he says, I believe it. He says I was there, he says, at the East Gate. He says, uh, he says, it's incredible. You're gonna get debrief on it.
So he was in shock over it. And there John and I and the chef commander he was, he was pretty much speak to Sue. And anyway, we started doing our reports and and we got informalized in the incident reports that we had to do. And were you treated okay in these debris things or did anybody treat you rough at all or or kind of try to intimidate you? Well, initially the security police they were it's all fact funny. I mean, I'm out there trying to get facts and then reporting the
facts to them, and that's what they were doing. They were getting the facts from me, right. But you know, after and then I got, of course, called in the Colonel Halt's office three days later after his incident, and he says, I got but he played the tape for me and I said, my god, I said, there's no way that this can happen twice wet once in our lifetime. And he agreed, Wow, So you didn't know about their experience till three days after that happened, that's
correct, because we were we were put on the six day leave. That must have made you feel pretty good that you were what had happened was confirmed. Yeah, that's exactly right. Said, Oh my god, I'm so glad that the base commander w the base commander you know under actually seen a too, because you know, even though had I witnesses watching him take off the craft and that you know, it was still it was a good they validated. And then uh, with their intent, do you think that they
saw the same thing. Were their descriptions similar to yours? Identical? Identical? Yeah, because I remember there was a large triangular craft with lots of lights on it as well. They yeah, they've seen. Actually one of the descriptions that that you will help use just the it was odd. There's more, there's like I think three or four I don't quote me on that the craft there and they were doing a grid search like they're looking for something,
you know, gritting off the area. And you know that's incredible too. I mean, like, I don't know, it's it's a pretty amazing story. M one. Then eventually you were on Larry King just a couple of years ago regarding this story, and he seemed really amazed by what you
all had to say. At one point, he was kind of defending you and your experience against the debunker guy they had on there who was saying you mistook some cosmic thing for for craft on the ground, right, But you know he was doing that and they all and I appreciate Larry doing that, but you don't. He don't have to. It doesn't matter anybody if they don't believe us, that's fine. I don't care. Yeah, you know, we know what we've seen, right and what we reported. And the
other thing is I never talked bad about other veterans either. Yeah, I won't. I won't put I would not talk bad about the debucker on the show loves It. Yeah, well that's very admirable. I know that there was no lighthouse. I mean it's more insulting, but you know, you get over that. I mean, we know what the lighthouses. We knew that they were at we were I was stationed at that base for quite a while, worked out there every night. I mean, it's just no way
we can get stuff like that confused. And actually we were experts on identifying aircraft, so that was your job, that was our job. On Larry King when you were on the show. Did he express what did he say to you guys kind of behind the scenes. Did he seem, you know, like he believed in your story? Oh? I believe he genuinely believed it. Yes, yeah, he he was very sympathetic about it and understood the uh, the the trauma that we went through. I mean, that's
the other part of this thing that's just crazy. Is it is the it's a light changing event mm hmm. And anybody was I think it wasn't uh is definitely wrong. It's a life changing event that changes your life, the course that you take and what you do and how you look at things. Mm hmm. Yeah. I could just imagine. I mean, had you really thought much about UFOs or they of extra tractional life prior to that? Oh? And I never believed any of that, you know, I thought,
yeah it does. Yeah, I mean that could be. That's just what must be doubly incredible for so many people who they never even think about this subject and then all of a sudden they're faced with it. Well, yeah, here was, you know, a space to face with it. And I knew at that point that I was wrong my entire life. I was wrong about this. You know that there's there's just no way that this craft could even be replicated today technology. I mean, it was u if
they could. I don't want to write on that, baby. Oh yeah, I can't tell you what it was. Definitely tell you what it wasn't right well, and there wasn't anything that was in James Booker aircraft. Was it anything that the Russians had or we had, or any bird pipes or nothing like that. Well, that was another interesting aspect of it, especially
your Larry King special. I mean he had had UFO researchers and debunkers on before kind of debating this whole thing, and I believe Yeah, even Seth Shostak was on the show, and Bill Nye and some of these others, but they really were at a loss to explain what you all had seen. Your credibility was all very high, Like you said, you had the Colonel Halt there with you all, and you know, that's what I thought was
interesting. I wish some of the UFO pro guys would have kind of pinned them down to let them say, you know what, what was this? What's your hypothesis on what these guys might have seen? Because really they never got to that answer. They were right, and that's where I think it's fair for people to have all these different hypotheses about I'll tell you what.
There was no concern with the anybody might change command about our credibility. I mean, i'll tell you Within one month after the incident, I was promoted and I was put in charge of the nice of plans and programs for the for the base, and you know I were all the defense plans and the Cower terrorism plans, I mean they and of course I didn't have a top secer clearance, and so I had about fourteen you know meetings and debriefings with
the command structure, I mean like Colonel Hoff, the wing command, the base commander. They had couple with OSI which were not very good. But yeah, maybe we could talk more about that next time. Unfortunately, were about out of time. Thank you so much for being on the show and sharing this incredible experience, and thanks for being so brave to come forward and share it with everyone. Well, thank you for loving me. Come on, ye all right, talk to you soon. Next week. We've got
Nancy Talbot. She of course is the crop Circle science researcher, the best in the field and she's going to be talking to us about the crop circles of two thousand and nine because it really shocked her and some amazing things happen that have never happened before. So join us next week for Nancy Talbot on Open Minds Radio. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you soon. Please can say do you watch your fad so like a wise but folks back home