Love Talk Radio. Welcome to us a think Tank with your host Alejandro ro Boo Boo Boo Bob. That's a cool song. I love it done by Kevin McLeod, So you can look this guy up, great royalty free music that he puts out there. Thank you, mister McCloud. But you are listening to my friends UFO Think Tank Radio, and my name is Alejandro t Rojas. Thank you for listening, and I'm so excited. I think I forgot to mention this last weekend. I am very much apologized to my great
friends over there at UFO Paranormal Radio. So if you're listening on UFO Paranormal Radio, thanks for tuning in. And I am very excited to be a part of this awesome network ran by Joe Montaldo. They're now syndicating my show, so it's being heard around the world, and I am sure once we are able to work it out, Joe will be the first guy to be doing internet radio, I net webcasting and other galaxies. That's going to be
a great thing. Hopefully they'll be able to understand us, and you know that would be weird because a lot of these stories these guys communicate kind of brain to brain, So how will that work? How will you know? That's just when we talk about UFO disclosures. It's going to have such an impact on so many aspects of our lives, including web chat. You know, we better are a web radio. We better start thinking about that. But anyway, thank you all for being here with me today. And as
usual, we start off with some UFO news. So let's check out what's been happening this week, and as usual, there has been a lot going on. In fact, we will start off with some of our stories. I think it wasn't able to cover this one with you guys last week, or maybe it was the last one I covered, but talking about oh yeah, doctor Jessin Marcel and Roswell. But a great story by Kevin Randall. Kevin Randall being a Roswell researcher, a UFO researcher and going to be one
of the gentlemen speaking at our move on symposium coming up here. You know what I had to tell you about something special going on? Also, which is our guest tonight, who is James Carrion, the International Director of the Mutual UFO Network, And I'm very excited to have him on because he doesn't do a whole lot of media. Typically, when the media gets ahold of him, he says, talk to Alejandro, that's me because I handle most of those media spots, and so I end up doing those interviews and getting
beat up for move on for him. Just kidding. Actually, I get to talk with a lot of wonderful people and share a lot of great information because Moufon does some good stuff. So we'll be able to talk to James Carrion today and that's very exciting. We'll talk a lot about the symposium and you guys can come out and see James talk. You know, we had our guests last week, John Venture, who will also be talking at the symposium, and the gentleman I'm speaking of now, Kevin Randall, will also
be at the symposium. But he wrote a great story about Jesse Marcel getting beat up I guess in some of the UFO arenas some people calling him a liar and stuff like that, and he's pretty much defending him and telling him, Hey, this guy's an American hero, Jesse Marcel. And he's not even talking about the UFO subject. Jesse Marcell is actually a doctor. He's a flight surgeon, for the Army. He's done a couple of tours in
Iraq. So that's why this gentleman's American hero, regardless of the fact that he is coming forward with what his father experienced and sharing, Hey, you know, my father showed me this material that didn't seem to be anything that we had been able to create. My father told me that this was, you know, a material from a crash saucer that was probably from an extraterrestrial craft. And so, you know, he believed this while other and he
has since not been able to explain what he saw. So that's great that he comes out and talks, and Kevin Randall's pretty much saying, you know, don't beat this guy up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, for being there when his dad came and showed him this stuff. Also, Roger Marsh, we talked a lot about Roger Marsh because he's been doing some really cool stuff as the UFO Examiner. I'm examiner dot com also mostly posting some mofon stories, but he has a story here on the Washington
Mofon chief investigator who launched a new website, James Clarkson. So that's something that you've got to check out because he's putting a lot of information out there of sightings in the area. You know, recently I talked about New England
doing the same kind of thing. Conglomeration of the different MoveOn groups. So it's great that these guys are getting together and doing a lot, you know, MoveOn groups here and there are doing a lot of great stuff, and maybe James will be able to update us on that in just a minute. Here also a story on a dozen silent UFOs crossing the Ohio Skies. Another move on report. Remember you can go to MoveOn dot com and look at these reports in real time as soon as that person push it to submit.
When they put in a report on the website, you're able to see that and read the details of that siting. In fact, we even have a graphical interface that works with Google where you can see a little icon instantly pop up and this thing self updates itself, so you can open this have it open at work all day long, go check it out and you'll be able to see the new sightings pop up and stay up to date. And you know, that way, if maybe you're you're at work and you see,
you know, a dozen sidings surrounding the area where you work. You know that, you know, maybe it's time to kind of hit the road and go visit Grandma in the next date or something, or go take a look and start snapping some pictures or taking some video and you can submit that to the CMS. Also, it's so advanced that they can take pictures and videos on there and there's some great pictures video and Roger Marsh often we'll post those
as well. Right here in Lakewood, Colorado, which is the town next door the town I actually work in here in what the metro area of Denver, that people have seen a UFO hovering over rooftops. So that was another sighting that was reported recently. You know, people talked about sidings here and there, and the news really plays it down, but they don't really mention or highlight the truth that there are hundreds of sightings a month, literally hundreds
of sightings a month. James sends us out all out of a monthly report that shows how many sightings there have been for the month, and there are literally hundreds that we receive a month and thousands over a year, and a lot of these people are very credible. Some of the very credible people out there. In fact, are the subject of my next story, which is some videos that have come out lately that are really interesting. You know.
One of them is Bud's Aldron talking about a monolith on the moon, one of the moons of Mars. And of course, of course a monolith could be just a structure of rock structure or something like that, but it's interesting that the way he talks about it, and you can see this video, he's like, you know, if people knew about that, we got to go check out who built that and why that's there. This is a strange object, and so he's alluding to something more mysterious than just you know,
a normal rock jetting out there. And you may have heard the stories of budget Aldren in the past waffling on whether he's seen UFOs or not. Sometimes he says he does. Sometimes he tries to explain away what he saw. So really interesting, what's going on with buzz Aldron, And definitely with this interview, if he was really trying to hype people up and talk about how we we need to go to the Mars, we need to establish spaces on
the Mars. Really and a lot of scientists talk this way, Mars is the best place to go instead of a space station, which is much more difficult to maintain. You know, it's much more difficult to expand. If we went to the Moon, that could be our launch platform to go to Mars. So that's really a lot of people talk about. That's really the next step if we want to do some real space exploration, turning the Moon
into our space station, so you know, much easier. Another interesting video that I posted here is the Obama Press secretary was doing an interview recently early in the morning and they took some calls from listeners and one of the listeners asked the UFO question. You know, he did a great job saying, hey, I know this may sound silly, but please take this serious.
You know. He mentioned edgar Mitchell, another astronaut who had been on the Moon, and edgar Mitchell talking about how he knew Roswell was the real deal, and so this guy did treat him really nice. He said, you know, we haven't talked about that. I haven't talked about that with Obama, but we certainly are committed to transparency in government. So I don't know if that's going to move anything, but it was an interesting transaction that you
can see there and these videos. Remember all of this stuff I'm talking about. You can go to ufothinkdink dot com, scroll down and you'll see this on the front page, these news stories. Or you can go to mofon dot com and go to the UFO Newswire and you'll also see these stories. And finally, a lot of triangles being seen again. Roger Marsh writing a story on triangle UFOs being seen over four states, and just recently he had
written about triangular UFOs being seen over six states. So you may remember in Belgium in the nineties and we actually had the general who had done the investigation on the triangles that they were seeing out there at our last symposium in San Jose. Wonderful person. You can go to a move on dot com and purchase his talk, and I highly highly recommend you do that because he covered how, you know, dozens of police officers, military, other witnesses had
seen these triangles. They tracked where they had seen these triangles over Belgium. It's a it was just a wonderful talk. I loved it, and so you've got to go check that out. But more triangles being seen over the US very strange. But without further ado, I believe that we have mister James Carrion on the phone. I'm here, great, I can hear you. Just fine, super sounded very good. So I had talked about earlier. I have a lot of stuff actually I want to talk about with you,
but not to be crueler or anything. But you know, some of the more difficult questions I face, and they're actually not difficult. They're kind of fun and I like to clear the air on some things. But you know, I was thinking it would be kind of neat to ask you some of those questions and see how you would respond to some of them. The first being I always I get this a lot, and I'm sure you get it sometimes too. How MOFON is part of the government, and move On
is spreading disinformation or keeping information back from the public. What do you think about that? It's absolutely true. No, I'm just kiddused, absolutely not. No. You know, it's funny because we are accused all the time of being part of some grand conspiracy. Actually, there's probably three or four move On board members that are on some top one hundred men in black list. That's betting around the internet. You know, the accusations are ridiculous.
And and if anybody were to come to the symposium this year and listen to my talk, specifically my talk on some of the new research I've done from the very early days of UFOs and the government complicity uh and in the start of a cover up. Uh And and actually for some very different reasons that I'm going to be showing, I think they would be very you know, very hesitant to make any accusations about movement any longer. I mean, we're we are very much open, you know, for us, the truth is
it. And so you know, we're trying to just as be as honest as possible and as forthcoming as possible about our research, what we do, how we do it. And you know, we're we're just on a mission here. We're on a mission to try to figure out what this mystery is all about. So uh, you know, we're not in bed with the government or there's no complicity there. Yeah, And it's you know, being part and seeing how all this works. It's just funny. And I tell
people the same thing. You know, come to a symposium or something, you'll you'll see very quickly that that's not the truth that that's just kind of conspiracy talk out there and a lot of people, as you know, it's kind of like, if you don't see the things the way I do, then you're probably a disinformationist, right, And I would agree with that.
And you know, actually I would have to say that there just based on the time I've spent the move On, I've seen enough of some of the investigations we've done into some of the allegations and some of the claims that have been made on the Internet and so on to know that there is disinformation going on. There are active disinformation agents out there planting information in the UFO field, you know, selling strange and wild stories, but it's not originating from
within move On. This is usually something that pops up on some websites somewhere, or somebody starts making some some some strange claims, but it's not it's not from within the organization. So there there's some truth to uh, there being disinformation out there and inactively being seated, uh, but it's not it's not from within mouf On itself. Yeah. I had this guy just the other day call me and give me a whole earload and and he just wouldn't
stop. And I wish I would have known earlier how to make him stop. Essentially just to disagree with him one time. Well, I didn't necessarily disagree with him. He just went in about Phil Schneider an underground basis, and I told him, well, not everybody believes in Phil Schneider. And he said, oh, my gosh, mouf On is part of the illuminati, aren't they click Yeah, ridiculous, Yeah, some silly stuff. But you had talked about disinformation and not only are you not or wherever happen,
if I'm correct, a member of m J twelve, you yourself. I'm kind of skeptical of whether MJ twelve exists or not. Is that true? You know, if you look back at the history of youthology, m J twelve is one of those I would I actually call it a myth because I
don't believe it's really there's a true group called m J twelve. And if you look back at the history, it came out right after Charles Berlitz and Bill Moore, We're releasing their book about the Roswell Incident, and all of a sudden we get these documents that are talking about this group, and how Eisenhower's would be in briefed and the documents themselves would never have been proven to be genuine. Subsequent to that, we get a whole deluge of m J
twelve related documentation and all of questionable providence. So the real question is why was that documentation released at that time and for what reason. My feeling is that in itself was an to disinformation campaign. Send UFO researchers down this path, proved that m J twelve was a real group, and in the meantime, the truth is somewhere else. So this is one of the many rabbit holes that you follow just have then sent down, sent down throughout the years.
And I could name probably half a dozen where we've been led astray and kept really busy somewhere else other than we really should be looking. Yeah.
So, and you do feel, I mean even possibly more so than many others, that there is an active or possibly many active disinformation projects or programs going on to get information, pour information out into the community, right, And I would, and actually I would probably have to state, you know, publicly and honestly here that my opinion is that there's a cover up going on. But it's not for the same reason a lot of people think it's
going on. I think the field has been hijacked. It's been used throughout the years for psychological warfare, for counterintelligence, for as cover for our own exotic aircraft, and that has been basically used for those purposes. But there is a true there's a true phenomena. The only problem is trying to figure out what that true phenomena is when the waters have been so muddy by these active these agencies that have actively used it for their own purposes is pretty much
next to impossible. So this is one of the things I've always believed that us in upology, we're never going to get to the truth. We will never know what the true nature of this phenomena is until we can unequivocally know what the role of government is first, and that that's going to take a lot of digging and a lot of exposing how this field has been hijacked for these various purposes. Mm hmm. Do you have any thoughts that way? Actually I do. I'm doing some very active research right now, and I
don't want to divulge what it is at this minute. I mean, some of it is going to come out at the symposium. But I have there's a plan. There's a plan in place to start, you know, basically cracking this this this shell that's been around the field for so long that that is the role of government, and I think there is a way to crack it. I'm actually getting together a group of researchers to work on that very
same project. I know. It's something that John Chusler is working on that I think is really exciting is some of the cryptology and some of the work inside the government there some of the government's well known cryptologists in the past and them working in the UFO arena and actually trying to come up with ways to possibly communicate with extraterrestrials. I can't wait till you finishes that. Yeah, John shared some of his research with me. It's very fascinating mm hmm.
Pretty incredible stuff. So, you know, kind of along those same lines, some of the bigger investigations that you've got you've been a part of. I know you did a lot of work on those California drones. You know. I looked into the California drones, not when it first happened, but soon after, when when some of the TV shows expressed interest and and and
investigating them. The thing, the overwhelming factor that I that I saw that that led me to believe that the drones were a part of a hoax or be also part of a disinformation campaign was the fact that there that there were so many alleged witnesses, yet we could never actually find one physical person that we could interview in person, you know, actually in person, a real individual. So thirty something alleged to witnesses to these drones, yet not one
real person. It just doesn't add up. Yeah, that's what started making me suspicious. In no case that I've ever seen do you run across especially that many witnesses who don't want to talk. And then on top of that,
the reports that they had put in were so ho hummed. There didn't show any excitement when really amost reports the person writing is just baffled and kind of rolling through kind of like we do, rolling through the possibilities of what it could be, and they show some emotions, some excitement there and what they saw, and you really didn't get much of that in the witness reports on the California Drunes exactly, or the single report that we got on the
drones in the move On website turned out to be an email address that with no other contact information. So the witness just left an email address. And despite the fact that we emailed to address a number of times, we never got a response back. So again we're we're dealing with folks that are anonymous witnesses. But anonymity is one thing, but you have to be able to prove that a person is real. So there's a whole issue of non repreation,
and and that was overwhelmingly the overwhelming factor. There was that this that these people were non existent, these witnesses. Yeah, and just for people's knowledge out there a couple of things, some his California drones. You couldn't look at that in the past. And there were these real popular pictures that were pretty incredible that came out of these strange crafts here again, these crafts that were nothing like what has previously been described in the past, and these
pictures they seemed too good to be true. And I think you've got some people to look at these pictures and give professional opinions on them, right,
Yeah, there were a number of photo analysts that looked at them. Our principal photo analysts, Mark Antonio looked at them and and and to him, they appear to be CGI A computer graphics and animation, And in fact, when he gave a workshop at our symposium ye last year, even gave a demonstration of how they could have been done, and that in itself is not
convincing. The problem with authenticating photos it's very very easy to hoax a photo these days with the state of art computer animation software and hardware that's out there, so it's very difficult to actually prove a photo is faked has been faked. So we really need some very good analysts, and actually we've been working with some forensic computer experts who have some very proprietary algorithms. We did this.
We actually used their algorithms on a case in Mexico that we investigated as part of the show UFO Is Over Earth, and we were able to show through forensic science how these particular photos, although we couldn't show that they were definitively fake, we could show that they were definitely not the originals as the witness that claimed to come right off the cell phone. So yes, the computer world has allowed a lot of folks to create some very high quality hoaxed
photos, but we're trying to keep up with them with forensic science. I was impressed with myself at work when I took this wedding photo and then changed the faces of two people at work to make it look like they got married. And that looks pretty convincing. That easy, Yeah, exactly. So another case that you did a lot of work on, and you know, with the drones and with this other case. I think you did some of the best work on both of these cases. That's why I bring them up.
But the Kinross case, and if you kind of could explain what that
was then what you had found there. Sure, Actually the Kinrass incident itself is an old case from the fifties where a UFO was observed flying from Canada into the United States and so the jet fighter was dispatched to intercept it, and it was tracking on quite a few radar stations and what they saw on radar was the were the two objects, the jet and the UFO emerged on the screen on the radar screen, and then the UFO moved off and the
the F eighty nine jet was lost. They did the massive search and they never found the jet. So fast forward, you know, forty something years later, or actually even fifty something years later, we have this alleged dive company who said, well, we were in Lake Superior and we were looking around looking for a shipwrecking mo and behold, our side scan sonar picked up this object on the floor. You know, we think it's the F eighty nine that was lost because we sent an ROV and we also see this UFO
object near it. And so there were these sonar scam pictures that were released on the internet on their website. And the thing here's the problem is is when folks make claims like this, a lot of people leaving, you know, leading UFO researchers will will not do proper background checks to make sure that these are valid claims. It will just basically swallow a hook line and sinker. And so it made the rounds of the internet like wildfire. Everybody was
really excited about it. So I spent a lot of time, hundreds of hours trying to validate that the folks making these claims were even real people, that they were at a real company, and none of it checked out. And eventually, when when faced with all the evidence I had amassed, they basically shut themselves down. Their website disappeared and were never heard from them again. Now it's to me, it's extremely interesting as to why they even did
this website even pop up to begin with. These claims were made because it didn't appear to have any obvious motivation in terms of, oh, we're going to make money off of the story, or we're going to make this because we couldn't really figure out who these individuals were, so again we're going back to possible disinformation purposes. Maybe this was a some agency of a government out there that was trying to perpetuate the UFO mess for their own reasons. M
hmm. That's what's interesting about both of these cases. With a lot of hoax cases, you know who's doing the hoaxing. It's typically the people who are sending out the information. But many times you know who's putting out the information. They're posting it on their website and there may be doing videos and sending emails and you can talk to them and before their hoax is revealed.
But in the California drone case and the Kinross case, still nobody knows who was behind those two things, and there seemed to be no gain for any individual exactly there's no obvious money motivator for why they they were making those claims. Mm hmm. Now, a lot of people had talked about in both cases, and especially with the drones, kind of being a possible, possibly a viral marketing campaign, and I never sign any evidence that that was actually
the case. Yeah, there was. There were some rumors early on that maybe alien were computers, it was a campaign that they had launched, or there was a viral marketing campaign for some computer video game or some new sci fi movie coming out, but all of those claims pretty much fizzled. We could never track down any evidence that it was a viral marketing campaign. Mm hmmm. A couple of questions coming from the chat room, and hello to chatters, and thanks for joining, but one of them, I guess I'll
ask the first one, Steve, the nature of the beings. I guess we would have to go back. Do you believe then there are I guess the extra restaurant hypothesis? Do you believe there are possibly extraterrestrials, you know, behind these seemingly intelligently controlled technological devices that people are seeing buying around. Well, I think it's definitely a possibility it's one of the many hypotheses for
what is behind the UFO phenomena. But at the same time, we also know that when entities are seeing, for example, abductions, that when the witnesses are taken on board what is allegedly a craft, they're they're told information that oftentimes doesn't hold to be true. So there's a there's a whole thread of deception. So so we don't really know. The bottom line is nobody
really knows. We do know that folks see entities. We do know that they're observed on board craft outside of craft, I mean, these have been witnessed for as long as the UFO phenomena has been around. As far as their prominence, where they come from, we don't know that. We don't know whether they're from their extraterrestrials visiting us from another solar system, or their
time travelers, or their interdimensional travelers. We simply do not know. Yeah, and that pretty much answers the questions because this person was asking, you know, essentially, do you if you believe they were angels or just beings from other worlds or other dimensions? And yeah, yeah, and I think that's what I like to argue is you know where And I'd like to hear your thoughts on this where kind of the noisy negative is ss Stanton puts it
fail because they purport to be scientists and following the scientific method. But the scientific method doesn't mean you know, oh, what you saw or what you claim to have seen is just so out there that it can't be true, where the scientific method is more of holding up that possibility until you can prove otherwise absolutely. And I think a lot of folks do not understand the difference
between a skeptic and a debunker. Skeptic I mean basically move On considers itself to be a skeptical organization, or we use a scientific method, one of the hallmarks of science and skepticism. I mean, it's very healthy to have a dose of skepticism when investigating any claims. But the difference between a skeptic
and a debunker. A skeptic is willing to look at the data, to actually do their homework and investigate and research, whereas a debunker is somebody who just typically because it doesn't fit within their paradigm, outright dismisses the research that has been done without doing any research. Themselves. It's basically just a lot of armchairs like and guessing. And you know, the bunkers are just basically a group of lazy folks who will take somebody else's research and just throw it
out the doors because it doesn't fit within their belief system. M hm. Another question from the chat was asking you about the Jonathan Reid case and if you had any opinions or had looked into that much the Jonathan Reid case. I personally have not investigated Jonathan Reid's claims, but I have spoken with a few researchers, and from what I understand, mister Reed made quite a few
claims that he could not prove mm hmm. Interesting. And you know you had talked about the difference between debunkers and skeptics, and I know that because there have been, like you said, other researchers who have had strong feelings. It's about the California drones and about the the kN rass, you know, with the radar data and in Mexico you mentioned in that Mexico case, and there are some researchers who had strong feelings about all of those being the
real deal. But of course you have that for Jonathan Reid for a while too. You know, what would you say to those people who are saying, oh great, you know whenever we hear from Moffin, they're telling us, how you know our pet case is is it's not real? Well, I would I would say, let's just compare the data. The problem with youthology is there's so much infighting and there and there are so many investigators and
researchers that are odds with each other personally. It becomes a battle of personalities. Uh and and really that's ridiculous. What we're talking about is investigation, hardcore investigation and hardcore data. So you know, my thought is like I'm not or my belief it's I'm not going to go out and attack somebody or
another utiful researcher personally. You know, I don't care you know what their background is or or you know if they were a journalist in a past life, or an investigator or a police detective or a scientist or you have a PhD. The bottom line is showing you the data and showed me the homework that you've done. And if you've done the same homework that I've done, then we can compare apple apples to apples, but just outwardly dismiss my data
because it's an issue of ego or personality. That's the problem. That that's that's where euthology has floundered for the last sixty years. We can just just compare data. Yeah, yeah, and I find that, you know, even especially with other countries, researchers from other countries, lots of times their government and their media are very open to hearing what they have to say about UFOs and don't give them the amount of scrutiny that we get here in the
United States. And you know, that's why try to tell people it's so important, but move on. Does that maybe your case event is real, but you don't have enough data to support that. Well, if you don't have data to support it, what are you You're not going to be able to change any minds. If you get some real data to support and show that you've got something that is uh, the real deal, then that's something that you really want to make the most noise about because then you've got something
hopefully that will open people's eyes to what's going on here. Absolutely, we have another caller or a caller, let's see if we can get them on the line real quick. So is there a caller on the line. Yes, there is Hello there, Yes, Hello. What's your name is from? My name is John. I am the owner of the website called paranormal
fifty one dot com. Okay, And the the events that happened in my life that cause me to create the paranormal fifty one dot com project was an extraterrestrial biological entity siding that I had when I was in West Texas driving on the highway driving east and I heard on the I had the passenger side window open because it was so hot inside, and I decided to stop the truck because I was hearing these these chirping sounds just like the the extraterrestrials that were
on the District nine movie. These chirping, almost like a bullfrog chirping, and it appeared as if they were like teleporting themselves following my truck, my Dodge Dakota, my silver Dodge Dakota that I was driving east to west in and I heard these these It sounded just as if it was you know, brightest day. It's not like you know, voices inside my mind or anything. But I stopped the truck, got out of the truck looked in the
direction where I was coming from, which was west. Then I turned around and there in front of me, I saw this, this arm that was less than too way me. I looked down to the lap and I saw these circles on its arm, as if it had some type of biomechanical suit and uh. And so I was like, my heart was racing at the time, and I held out my arm, my right arm, as if I wanted to, you know, shake hands with it or something. I don't know, but I saw an arm there. It looked like like as
if it had predator like cloaking technology. It was, uh, it had uh. It was as if like electrostatic shimmering outline was was uh, yeah, I remember you told us about this a bit, Yes, yeah, But I wanted to get James Perrion's opinion on or not opinion, but his experience as to if anyone had ever reported anything like the extraterrestrials that are showing
on District nine in the movie. I don't know if you've heard of it, sir, but it's uh, it's it's it's eerily similar to it sounded eerily similar to what I heard in the h on the past or Simondo out of my truck when I was in West Texas and I wanted to get your opinion on that. Well, if you familiar that with Peter Jackson making the movie District nine, I'm not actually familiar with the types of entities that he's
portraying on there. I saw one of the trailers for the movie, but I don't think they actually showed one of the alien creatures, or they did
show some sort of silhouette of it. So I can't comment up in similarity other than or in the similarity to the sound, other than maybe if if your experience is real and and you witness it, somebody else could have experienced the same thing, maybe somebody closely associated with the movie, and maybe they drew drew on that experience stuff as the uh, you know, for the
for the creatures that were portrayed. Yeah, the creatures in the movie are they almost look like a giant locust or these giant bug looking creatures that are you know, about six feet or something like that. That's so and and the you know, there are quite a few UFO incidents from the past where the entities were described as insect liked or playing man dislike or in you know, something of an insectoid type being. So it's it's definitely not unheard of.
Yeah, stuff like that is reported. Humh. So the move On Symposium coming up here to get more into that and what's going up on there from Uh, we had John venture on and I've had some of the speakers on before, but this is the fortieth so uh, you know, what do you think is significant about that, the fortieth anniversary of MUFAN. Well, it's definitely a milestone for UFO organizations or the history of uf organizations.
If we look back in history at some of the original organizations like Nightcap or APO, we are sort of a last surviving of these big three organizations.
And I think that's due to the wisdom and foresight of the early founders Walt Andris and John Schussler, who knew that it was important to create a grassroots organization with decentralized leadership and basically empower people to go out there and to conduct investigations of the Mouffon's name, but giving them the freedom and the flexibility to do that. Look on any sort of rigid hierarchy, so that in itself,
the organizations organizational structure has survived the test of time. But I also think it's significant that we're still here sixty years after the advent of UFOs and we're still trying to figure out what this mystery is all about, that in itself is an employed and issued and and why it's important that move On's still here as in existence because we have an important mission that we have to undertake. Why do you think Moufon is still around and the others didn't make it?
Well? I think with APRO it may have been a cult of personality where a lot of the drive of the organization came from it from you know, the Lorenzo's, Uh Jim and Coral Lorenzen, and when they died, the organization died with them. And with NICAP, you know, there are plenty of rumors that NCAP was infiltrated by government agents to try to disrupt its operation and eventually went out of business. Of course, I don't know if those rumors are true or or they have been substantiated, but we do know
they didn't survive very long after they had a change in leadership. So but Mouffon has been been around and we're happy to we're still here and we hope to continue in the future. What do you think is really that because one of the statements and I wanted to ask you about, is move On being the largest organization of this type. I usually say in the United States, but you think in the world, I would have to say we're the largest
UFO investigative body in the world. We may not be the largest uful membership organization. I've heard that there's a Chinese uf organization that has fifty thousand members. I don't know if that's true or not, but so we may not be the largest membership, but definitely the largest UFO investigative body in the world. Yeah, and I think, you know, that's what makes that move On so great, as we have so many people across the country and even
in other countries too, that are actually hands on investigating. Absolutely, that's what we do best, is to go out there and try to substantiate claims and interview witnesses, collect physical evidence everything it has to do with field work and boots on the ground and really trying to get at the phenomena itself. Yeah. Another question coming from the chat, he they're asking about abduction.
The abduction phenomenon, and how there aren't any speakers speaking about abduction at the symposium, so what of our plans to study that phenomena and help these experiencers actually move on That's true, we don't have any speakers that are speaking on the abduction phenomena at the symposium, But move On doesn't have an active abduction research group. It's headed up by Lester Velez and a stellar team of scientists
and doctors who are basically doing scientific research on UF abduction witnesses. In fact, they've they recently solicited a control group to to work on one of the projects where they're they're basically doing surveys of abductees. So yeah, we do
have active, active abduction research going on right this minute. In fact, they are The Abduction group will be giving a presentation at the symposium to the move On board and the work they've done in the last year, and then hopefully that'll turn into a symposium talk for the next for the next year of simposium. Well, and for people, because I get that a lot too, that's one of the questions people ask, Well, we'll find doesn't care
about abductees. Well, that's one of the things I point out is how one of our three Discovery Channel shows that you were that you were essentially like the host of uh was on at that abduction case? Right, Yeah, No, move On definitely cares about abduction cases, and I don't think a
lot of folks know even the research we've done in the past. One of the big mouf On projects on abductions was the Abduction Transcription Project, where we went out and we partnered up with a number of abduction researchers, especially those social workers and psychologists and sociologists who were doing hypnosis on their patients to try to uncover their abduction memories, and they gave the transcriptions of those recorded sessions
to move On to transcribe and take away to take out all the witness information, so we just had the raw experience. And so we did this for a number of abduction subjects that we could try to see they were common threads to abduction stories, and we recently had that digitally scanned all of that data to give to our abduction teams so they can go through it and try to figure out what those threads are. Yeah, maybe we can talk about you know, that might be a good segue into the show. Real quick.
The Discovery Channel show, which was a pretty cool thing that happened this year, and that particular case. I thought that episode. I loved all the episodes, but that episode was particularly interesting and maybe you can kind of review that case real quick. Well. The Yeah, we did three shows.
One of the shows was a case down in North Carolina where a gentleman was out fishing on the Cape River with his friends and they saw some lights come that came down over the river, and he was off walking through the woods and he experienced a ship that came over a craft and possible missing time. His son had observed some entities walking through the woods. When he met up with the other gentleman down the river, they all became very frightened. They
got on their trucks and they sped home. And when he got home later that night, he encountered an entity in his backyard. So we went down there to try to investigate it. For a number of reasons. Number one, it was a very compelling story because it had so many elements to it. But there were also quite a few witnesses, so we're able to interview We were able to interview each witness separately to try to see if they were
able to back each other stories up. And we did some other testing, some psychological testing as well as a polygraph exam to try to put all that data together and come to some conclusion. And basically what we decided was something very traumatic did happen to these folks. We're not sure what it is that happened to them, a possible abduction scenario, and basically, you know, we were able to substantiate that it was not a mental illness that was involved,
but that definitely some very strange aspects of the story. Yeah, the witness seemed very credible. Didn't he have some missing time exactly? He claimed that when he was when he walked up to the top of the hill when he first saw the craft, that when he walked back down to the river, that only twenty minutes or thirty minutes had expired, but his friends had
said that he was gone for three or four hours. Yeah. Another interesting aspect I thought of that case or that show, was that a polygraph test was taken and even though and it wasn't positive, What did you think of that? Well? I, well, a lot of folks don't know when they when they watched the show is that it looks like that the polygraph was administered at the very end. In fact, the polygraph was the first thing that was done and it was not only ad ministered to the primary witness,
but also to his son. And they didn't show the sun's results on the show. I think what we are determine from the polygraph, at least at least the polygraph operator thought that there were some questions that both of them will not be in truth on and you know that. I think what that did is race some red flags for us. But but we don't we don't decide
a case based on a polygraph. A polygraph is just a tool that that will do that will basically direct the investigation where to go next, and and also just to race some red flags that we need that need to be addressed. So so we didn't we don't necessarily put a whole lot of faith in the polygraph that we're going to use it as as a as a direction tool.
Well, what I've found, and it seems difficult, is polygraph tests are very cut and dry, yes or no questions and with an a that d and often people I've worked with who seem to have enough evidence or to show me some incredible stuff to make me think that they were really experiencing something.
They often, just like many good witnesses, don't know what it is they experienced, and they're very readily they're very open to telling you, I don't know what happened to me. Here's what I remember, here's you know, the results, here may be the evidence of what might have happened to me. And often they're asking us, what do you think happened to me? So it seems difficult for these guys to be able to go on a polygraph and answer a yes or no to something they don't even know what happened
exactly. And it could also be the trauma of the event itself is a few results of the exam. So so there's a lot more a lot more research needs to be done from from competence scientists on whether or not a polygraph can be used in such in such a situation, But we don't place a lot of emphasis on it, despite what the showed me may of show, and I think there was artistic license on the part of the production company. I did not did not place a lot of emphasis on the polygraph in this
case. Yeah, I think they did a good job actually representing your opinion, and what you shared with us here is that you're still the polygraph didn't really have that big of an effect on your feeling towards this witness who has seemed very credible, very down to earth, and had multiple witnesses of at least these lights in the sky. Right. So, and then the other case that you guys covered on the show, well, of course you did
Mexico and we talked a bit about that. Well, let's talk some more about Mexico because that was kind of rough, I mean, just to kind of clear the air. And from what I understand, what were your intentions when you guys went out there to investigate these Mexico cases. Well, the intention was to give the show an international flavor. The show was termed UFOs
over Earth, not just the United States. So we are trying to show that UFOs are a worldwide phenomena, which they are, and Mexico has been reported to be a hot bet of activity, and so we decided to go stop for a border to investigate. But one thing about doing a TV show, you can't call these crapped in on demand. So it's not like Ghost Honey, where you can walk into an old house and it creaks and somebody bumps the table, and all of a sudden you have a show you really,
you know, things don't show up when you want them to. So we had to go and investigate the cases that were recent down there. The one case that was very compelling for me was the one in the Scala where a whole town had witnessed a UFO earlier that year, or at least a light, a strange light that caused a direct electromagnetic effect on the town. And we know that because there's video shows this light and when it grew in lumin essence, the power in the town went down, so you could see
the direct electromagnetic effect. So that was very compelling. And then of course there were these photos that were floated through hunting Malison's office, very very clear photos, and we wanted to investigate those as well, so we went down there, and at the time, those were the most current cases we could investigate, so that's what we jumped on. And so you felt that there was possibly some meet here, there are some interesting stuff that you might be
able to discover something anomalous. Hopefully, Oh absolutely, I mean that's always the goal, is to try to find compelling evidence that something real and strange has happened in the sky war. We have the video which showed something strange, but we also had a newspaper article that came out from a local newspaper
that that really really embellished the story. Not only did people see lights, but they saw, you know, their cars were dying, their motorcycles were dying, their cameras didn't work when they were trying to take photos of this light, and creatures were seen. And when we got down there and we did our investigation, what we figured out was all of those elements, those
sensational elements of the story were not true. We couldn't find any witnesses to any of those events, but the whole town had indeed seen the light and there was a directly electromagnetic effect. So once we stripped away the sensational parts of the story were left with maybe something they had to do with the power grid itself, and that's what that was basically our conclusion that there was a
power event. Yeah, I know, you know, when I heard that you guys were going out there, it's really excited because of course I correspond with I May and some of his associates occasionally, and it was a total bummer, of course, And I think you probably felt the same way that you know, these cases didn't pan out sure absolutely, I mean there. I mean, we know just from from experience in the literature and all of the different cases in our files that that things happen that we can't explain once
thoroughly investigated. So we were hoping for such a case. Uh, you know, We're hoping that this case would be as as as good as any of the major cases that appear in the UFO history. It will become a classic. But unfortunately didn't happen. Yeah, And fortunately another bummer, of course, is that there were a lot of people coming out and saying Movefin was trying to make Latin Americans or Mexico and Mexican eufologists look bad or something
like this, sure, which which in itself is ridiculous. So I'm a Hispanic heritage, so I have no desire to try to to mean anybody of of Hispanic lineage, And that was definitely not our intention going down there.
Our intention to going down there was simply to investigate and find out what the truth was and simple, yeah, which you know, Ruben Uriarte and I were talking quite a bit before the show came out, because he was kind of bracing me for the unfortunate, you know, situation what had been discovered, or that these cases didn't pan out. And he of course has a Hispanic background, and and you might not know it from my name Alejandro Rojas,
but I actually have Hispanic background too. But so we're definitely on. You know, Ruben and I have certainly talked about ways to get you know, more Mexican uphologists and Hispanics involved with muf ON. I know you worked on that with Ruben, so it was kind of you know, I can see, especially with Ruben, and I think with you too, a little hurtful, you know, a little bit of personal there. When people make
claims like that, well, I mean I think they'd be. In this field, you have to have a thick skin, so I didn't, and I got a pretty thick skin. But I think what the shows again goes back to what I alluded to earlier about the state of euthology and in this infighting. And for some reason, some UFO researchers, when they can't attack your data, they'll attack you personally, which is unfortunate. Because that doesn't need to happen, and I think that's what you're seeing. Yeah, that
is a total bummy bummer someone in here. And this is maybe a good question to bring up too. And do you know, I don't know if you get this so much, but you know, I know some of these
questions, of course, are a little critical of move from. But I answered I get these questions a lot, and of course, so in the chat here, I have a few questions coming across the chat like that, and I like to answer these questions because hopefully, you know, they understand that we're very open and that there aren't any secrets or big conspiracy they have to be afraid of when it comes to move On. But one of the people in the chat asked, where is the bulk of Moufon's money going.
The bulk of Moufon's money is actually going to putting our journal. I think folks think that that we're this huge money making operation, when in fact we're not. We're a nonprofit organization, so most of our money goes back into services either for our members or for the public itself, in terms of education,
in terms of our website. So yeah, we don't you know, we make a small profit as a nonprofit each year, and anybody can go and download our latest tax return and see exactly how we spend our money. That's all very much public record. So you know, we don't you know, we're out here to make a profit. We are a nonprofit organization,
and we're here because we have a mission to accomplish. Yeah, and I think that's the big message, and that's what I tell people, you know, do you A lot of people think we have this humongous budget, but it's very tiny. And if anybody out there has ever had a small group where you print actual print a journal or even a newsletter, it's expensive. It's very expensive. And forty five dollars a year does that even cover the expense for one person's journal? It covers it, but barely. It's you
know, again, printing costs are going high. I've gone up quite a bit, as well as just postage in general. So you know, a lot of folks say, why don't you just put out an electronic copy of your journal, But we actually have a lot of members that would prefer printed copies, So we're doing We're here for our membership, we're here for the public and so we're going to stick to what we do best. Mm hmmm. You know, it's interesting that you mentioned a lot of people wanting a
printed copy too, which I do. It's very nice to have a printed copy, you know, you can put that on your in your office or in your you know, on your coffee table and people can look at it. But I also found this interesting. When I joined MUFON, I thought it would be twenty somethings like I was when I joined, you know, I thought it would be I just it was completely different than what I had
thought. But when I walked in there, I found there to be a lot of baby boomers, a lot of retirees, and a lot of people who were professors and engineers and retired police officers. That to me was really shocking. Did you find that interesting when you join to move On? Sure? Absolutely. I mean, obviously we have so many folks within the organization that are consultants who are PhDs, well known in their field, a number
of research special it's very well known in their field. Number of professionals from all walks of life. So that definitely impressed me as well. Obviously, all these people aren't wasting their time here. There's something real that this phenomena. Otherwise these folks wouldn't be involved. So that really intrigued me as well that this was the organization that I need to be a part of. And So when was it that you first became aware of MoveOn and then what led
you to eventually joining. I actually learned about move On when I was living in Florida in the late nineties. I had just gone out of the military, actually early nineties. I just got out of the military and was living in Tallahossee, Florida, when that story broke about the six young soldiers who went a wall from their base and went to Golf breezecause they were searching for UFOs and one of them actually went to the or was trying to attend the
Moufon symposium in Pensacola that year. So that's the first I have heard of the word MOUFA or the organization. When I moved to Colorado in ninety six, that's when I decided to look them up and found a local chapter and I joined. And I guess, even to back up a little further, what then got you involved with this field to begin with? You know, I've Alejandra I've been interested in all my life. I can remember back to
when I was age eleven. I have to thank my mom for this, because she subscribed to all the tabloid publications, the National Inquirer and the Star and the Globe, and fascinated me some of the stories that were in there. Even though you know, nowadays people would look at the tabloids and go, none of this is true. But back in those days, especially the
National inquir they did real investigation UFOs. Bob Pratt, one of the you know, prominent UFO researchers, worked for the National Inquirer, and they would send them out on assignments and to verify facts and just like a true UFO investigator. So that intrigued me. Back then, I actually started clicking out old tabloid articles about aliens and craft and you name it, and have my own little news clicking collection going on. So I really started at a very
early age. Cool. And then so at what point did you figure I need to put my efforts and spend my time in this. Actually it was when I read the Condon Committee report. You know, folks read the Common Committee report. University Cola Will put it out in nineteen sixty nine. If you read the summary where Edward conn instead that nothing has come of investigation of the UFOs that would contribute anything anymore to scientific knowledge, you'd go away thinking,
okay, with a the waste of my time in my life. But if you read the body of data, the number of cases in there that they investigated but could not explain, really good cases radar data, radar visual UFOs being chased by military jets, you walk away thinking, well, these folks ignored some real significant data and there's something to this and it begs to
be investigated. Yeah. I mean, when you read the Condon Report, which people you can get that online, it's actually a skeptic organization that has it posts in its entirety. But when you read that purport, it seems as though Condon, when he came up with that conclusion, didn't even read the entirety of the report. And some people argue that he didn't. More than likely he didn't he or if he did, he didn't really agree anyway.
He was very prejudiced in his beliefs, and he did the service to science from that point of view because he didn't he didn't take it from an unbiased perspective he was. He was basically or his mind was already made up in terms of what his conclusions were gonna be. But you know, we
can't. We can blame it. We're Condon for that. But at the same time, the report, the data still there is anybody with a critical mind can if they read the entire report, will probably walk away with the same conclusion that I came to, which is there's something here, there's some
significance here. Yeah. I help people read that report, and then I've read you know, key host books, and he does a great job following the history of what had happened during that period of time because he was trying to assist with the Condon Committee and demonstrating and proving that, in fact, just exactly what you had said, that Condon had his mind made up before he even went into this thing exactly. This is kind of a funny post. I got admitt. You know, we've got a great people in the
chat, but we have one guy that comes in here. He calls himself pastor Pat and every time he comes in I can't help but mention him to be such a funny guy. He's, you know, talking about obsu the UFOs are and stuff like that, and he talks about UFO witnesses drink rum and they were on rum. So he asked us if mufan would maybe come up with our own brand of rum. No, I'm not sure, really sure about that. I know Dan Atkroyd has his own brand of vodka.
But and he's a good supporter, a big supporter of Moveline, But I think we'll leave it at that. Yeah. Yeah, that he had a great video out recently where you probably saw he's promoting his vodka and someone asked him about UFOs and he had a you know, kind of a lengthy answer about looking into it and how you know they're real and he's looking into it and all of this stuff. Yeah. Dan's a great guy. We had had lunch with him in La earlier this year and he's just a real personable
guy. So we're really happy that he's part of the organization. Yeah. A lot of people ask, you know, what is Dan Aykroyd's rule in move on? Dan is basically you know, he he's a big supporter of moufun as an organization, and he's he supports our mission. Uh, he's basically our Hollywood consultant. So, uh you know, if we if we want to talk to somebody that's uh in in in the Hollywood star or celebrity, will less Dan to do the introductions for us. That's what he does
for us. Mm hmm yeah, great advisor and that were you. Have you seen his two hour or so kind of just like a lengthy interview that David Sereda put out the the the Uncut video. Yeah, yeah, yes, I did watch it quite a while ago. Yeah. I thought that was really impressive, as Dan Accord would certainly very well versed, more so than many of the people I meet in this field and the history of everything
going on. Oh sure, absolutely, Yeah, when you talk to him in person, he can quote UFO history in major UFO cases and those major UFO researchers. He's very well versed in the field. Another question from the chat and the interesting question as anybody reported as zeno morph the type of creature that was seen in the movie Alien, the movie Alien, Oh, the
real nasty creatures? Yeah, well, I haven't heard anybody describe it in you know, the same characteristics, but I think probably the closest would be the reptilian type entities that folks off of report, but typically they're not bursting out of your chest or laid eggs. Yeah no, nothing that comes close to alien. Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen anything like that. Now, what are the entity types the reports that you see most? Well, actually they vary. I mean, I think most folks think of the little
alien grays when they think of aliens. But mouf On, actually I shouldn't say mouf On. One of MUFON's members had bloat your like the believe that the ways pronounce his name. Back in the very early days, produced a catalog of the different entities or humanoids that were that we're seeing. And you can actually see some of those types in our in our Field Investigator manual.
But they come in all shapes and sizes. If you if you review this catalog of of what entities are describing everything from very human like or human or creatures to look very human, to those that are insectoid, to you know, others that look like the Mitchell and man. I mean, they just
come in all shapes and sizes. So to me, it's interesting because I find the reports that, especially modern day reports, those folks that report very atypical creatures, not the traditional grays that you see in the media or on TV, but the things that are varied are very different. To me. It actually lends more credibility because if somebody were to if somebody really wanted to make up a story, you know, they were typically wanted to use what
everybody expects aliens to look like or what they see in the media. So the atypical reports in me are very very interesting. Yeah, and you know, are there some of those cases that you think perhaps could be genuine. Actually the case in North Carolina we talked about earlier, the way the principal witness described those creatures was very atypical. You described them as having some sort of exoskeleton skin on that was translucent, or exoskeleton food that was translucent,
and they had a face mask that I'd never seen described before. So yeah, that was interesting in itself. Yeah, well, here's a good segue into you know what I wanted to get back into. Someone asked, you know, if you could give a teaser for this symposium, maybe some of you know what your presentation is going to be about and some of the other presentations that will have that you're excited about. Sure, Actually I can tell
them a little bit about my own research. I've been doing some extensive research into the very early days of UFOs, from the time period of nineteen forty six to nineteen forty seven, and what I found is actually some very intriguing newspaper articles from nineteen forty seven, two weeks prior to Kenneth Arnold, there was rumors that the United States had a top secret weapon that outrivaled the atomic bomb, and you know, the press went wild with speculation what could this
weapon be? And we've thought the atomic bomb was it? And what could
possibly be more powerful than that? And so as I started, you know, drilling down or doing some more research into this very intriguing story, I started to see a pattern emerge that leads me to believe that there was no such weapon, but that there were certain agencies in the government that were putting this story out there to try to make the Russians the Soviets at the time think that UFOs were American, that they were an American top secret weapon.
And I had some very good information I think will show that pattern. Now, the real question would be, well, why would they want to do that, Why would they want the Russians to think it was ours? Well, there's a number of reasons why that could be. It could be for counterintelligence reasons. We knew that we were very heavily infiltrated by Stovie'd espionage at the time, So one way to unmask spies is to put some very intriguing
out information out there and see who becomes interested in it. Another reason could be for deterrence. We were afraid that the Russians were on the war path, and so we wanted them to think that we had something they didn't, even if they did have some stolen atomic knowledge. So there's a number of reasons why that could have happened, but I'd like to prove it and like
to prove that that was what was going on. Now, that doesn't detract at all from the fact that maybe folks were seeing real, real UFOs flying around, but that maybe these agencies were using that for their own purposes, which goes back to like earlier recipitions that you know, the UFO field has been used and abused throughout the years by these various intelligence agencies for their very for their own purposes, and I'd like to show show that that was a
pattern from the very to you know, mm hmmm, I think that's really interesting, and I think it's cool, you know, I think that's there's not a lot of people, researchers, especially no one, you know, particularly focused on uncovering disinformation programs, and it seems to be some fairly low hanging fruit, you know, that you could at least prove that there have been these disinformation projects throughout history where they're trying to make the public or like,
like in this case, the Russians believe one thing or another, and that using the UFO phenomena as as a tool for that. Well, it's very possible that the that the government we want to use that term, or whoever these authority figures are or have been throughout the years, they themselves don't have a clue what the UFO phenomena is about. They don't understand it. They can't put their arms around it either, But that doesn't stop them from
using it for their own purposes. Uh Like. I like to think back to that episode of The X Files where the couples driving down the country road and the triangle craft comes out of nowhere and abducts them, and these little gray aliens come out and take them out of their car and then in the next scene is very large. It's much larger. UFO comes down and abducts the Gray Aliens and the humans, and then later on in the in the in the show, they show the Gray Aliens being unmasked as Air Force guys
in disguise. So you know, the real question is who's emulating who. There's a real phenomena out there that is there. It's always been with us, it continues to be with us. But these agencies, with with all of the resources they have and the money they can put into intelligence operations, are are using it for their own their own purposes. Yeah, I love that you brought up that episode because I bring that one up a lot also because it's one of my favorites. It's hilarious, but it goes over a
lot of these themes too. They had some men in black guys, you know, they had Jesse Ventura within it, I think telling them, Yeah, the President Jimmy Carter did not see a UFO. He mistaken Venus for a UFO, and all these these funny, weird quirks. But that's a good one too, that these guys masquerading to be Grayly and subducting people were abducted themselves, right, Yeah, that's that's a really interesting episode. So
I think that sounds very cool. I can't wait to see your entire talk, and worst case, if I'm busy during that time, I'll be able to buy it, which is always great about the symposiums to watch it at my leisure. But what are some of the other talks going on that you'd like to mention or that you're excited to see. Well, we have some great speakers of the symposium. I'm really excited to see what, For example, Kevin Randall talks about. He's talking about how science can be brought the
bear on the UFO problem. It's been discussed many times before, but I think he has a pretty interesting approach to how to use a scientific method to to go out there and do some serious research. So I'm looking forward to his talk. We also have Jeffrey Bennett who's going to be talking about UFOs but from a science perspective in other words, you know, he he wants to focus on the aspect of, yes, there are civilizations out there in
the universe, so UFOs are a possibility. He doesn't claim the UFOs have arrived or extraterrestrials have arrived. He wants focus and I think what we all believe that yes, there's life out there. So I'm looking forward to his talk. We have Mark d Antonio who is going to be discussing not only how to handle the skeptical point of view or or when you're talking to somebody whos a debunker. He's also going to be doing a number of workshops for
US on puttal video analysis. And Frank Salisbury, Doctor Frank Salisbury is a world class plant physiologists or I don't know the correct term, but he's he's a professor of plant science and he actually is from the early days and wrote a book on UFOs over Utah. And he's going to talk about his research and what he believes as an academic, how you know UFOs can be researched
and how mainstream science can be brought into to bear on that. Of course, you know, we have our favorite Stan Friedman is going to be there, and let's see John Ventry will talk. You talk about UFOs over Pennsylvania and a number of a lot of folks probably don't know unless they've seen our show UFOs over Earth. The Pennsylvania experienced a major flap of uful activity last year. I mean just off the charts in terms of what people are seeing
even this year. That's continuing. So he's going to talk about his latest research. Quite a few good speakers m hm, doctor Frank Salisbury. Was he able to look into some of that Pennsylvania evidence because John had talked to us about and it's also in the show about those plants that were covered by that glary stuff that was sucked back into this craft. Yes, he actually did look at it. Actually he was. He was not asked to look
at the evidence of the sexasical evans what was positive. He was asked to look at the research that another professor had done and to give us a second So it was mostly you know, what is your second opinion about the earlier research. Okay, so he was on the show then, Yes, of doctor Franks Alvier was on that show. Okay, yeah, I remember that now, Okay, cool, So that'll be great. We'll have two different perspectives on that that Pennsylvania Calase. It was really cool to have John on
and have an update on it because that was some really interesting stuff. Yes, very interesting. A question from the chat was that has moved on compared the sightings in Phoenix to Stevenville to Timley Park, et cetera, to see if there's some sort of commonality between these mass sightings or these flaps. I don't think we've done any research directly. I'm trying to do recomparisons between those
three events. I know John Schustler is very heavily involved in doing research on triangles, which you know, the Phenix lights some folks, so they saw a massive triangle fly over and the same thing with Tinley Park. So yeah, there hasn't been any direct comparison or of those three cases as far as I know, mm hmm. And you know, reflecting on all those cases and other flaps around the world. To me, and except for this triangle one now and well, except for the triangles, there are flaps of the
triangles. Mexico seems to have flaps of the orb type things. But these other cases that he's talking about, they seemed to be completely different phenomena each one of those different cases exactly. I think a lot of times too, once of something like the Phoenix lights hits them or Stevenville hits the media, you get a lot of secondary witnesses that come forward and say well I saw
something I mean not even related to the first sighting. So you have to be able to separate, you know, the original raw data from the subsequent
media and deused activity. So that becomes difficult in of itself, and that kind of almost touches on something that you had mentioned earlier, which when it comes to the entity entity, it's a huge variety of different entities that are seen, and it's also seemingly the same with craft that really, if you look at the reports we received with move on It, you have some popular
type of shapes and sizes. However there's a much bigger variety of these things then most people realize, well absolutely, I mean we look back even in our own case files, I mean they come in all shapes and sizes, so it's yeah, it's it's even for example that in that Pennsylvania flap, one of the primary witnesses saw a very strange hexagonal shaped craft, which we don't get a lot of hexagonal type craft reported to us, so and so
yeah, definitely all types mm hmm. Yeah, And I guess I know you're touching on a bit into symposium kind of the future of moufon and and uh research and maybe is there something you can speak to on that in the last few minutes here. Well, I think the in terms of future research MOVEFON is going to stick to what it did as best and that's using the scientific method. But we want to take a more active role in terms of
of basically getting mainstream science involved with this subject. So we're looking at the fine university that will sponsor scientific symposium and UFOs want to do more of these research teams that we've done that we're doing now. We have a history team that's looking at the early days. We have our abduction team that's looking at abduction data. But we want to keep that going with even more and varied
research. So it's moving forward and going out there and gathering more data through databases that we acquire from other folks and other organizations and putting that in the electronic forms and so we can easily search across it. So a lot of
work that needs to be done. Yeah, and I think I like to think that we are on the hopefully on the cusp of seeing some scientific organization take this subject on, because for instance, at our symposium we have what one, two, three, four, five PhDs speaking, and that's not including Stanton Freedman. A lot of people call him doctor Stanton Freeman, but he's actually although he is a nuclear physicist, I don't believe he has his PhD. So, but he's obviously very capable well, and he's done a
lot of work in nuclear physics. So she's definitely you know, knows what he's talking about. But I mean, that's a lot of scientists right there exactly, because that's what that's really what sposed what we are. We have a symposium that's going on. It's a scientific symposium, so folks can hear the latest research. We're not just here to to fratenize, even though it's an important part of it. We're here to present the latest data on the
latest evidence and we're looking forward to that. All right, cool, So people can register for the movef On Symposium still you go to mofon dot com. That's August sixth through the tenth. The investigator training is all day on the sixth, right oh six to the ninth, six the ninth, and or folks can just show up at the Number Tech Center, Maria down on the Number Tech Center on the day of their choice. August sixth through the ninth. We'll be selling tickets at the door. They do definitely want to
miss our banquet on Friday night. We will have a few tickets we can sell at the banquet dinner. It's going to be a very important event, not only honoring folks within MOFON, but just talking about the history of MOFON and the proud history that we have. We're planning for a big celebration on
Friday night. Of course, if folks are interested in becoming UFO investigators, they would want to come to our workshop that's being held August sixth all day where we're going to take folks through a number of different subjects for how to go out and active to active UFO investigation. Perfect well, cool, Well, thanks for being on the show. A lot of I think great information. So I was excited to have you and so this has been really cool.
Definitely a lot of subjects to talk about, and thanks for being on the show. Thank you and Andrew take here and for you listeners, thanks for tuning in. You know, be sure to be here next week where we'll have someone involved with the symposium on got a few people in mind, but I've got to actually get their commitments, which I will do. But you know, thanks for tuning in, thanks for coming into the chat. We'll talk to you next week. And also thanks to the UFO and Paranormal
Network for having us online. All right, thank to you all later, you guys have a wonderful summer. Weeks called appreciate with Buda, called appreciate with Buda, called appreciate with Sunday back, called appreciate with Don, called prim called prior, called priory, tripical prior PA, tronical pory strama, typical priory stingram, cynical priory strama, typical priory strama, typical parame and typical parame and typical diary Madame