Gene Steinberg, UFOs Over the Years

Hello, and welcome to open my UFO Radio. This is your host Alejandro Rojas, and I am joined by UFO newsman Martin Ruski. Willis Previet. Is that Russian? Yeah, it means. It means Joe. Oh cool, Previet. See I told you guys, he's hed a Rusky. And I say that lovingly. That's that's not a derogatory term, is it? No? No, no, no no, But you're not really Russian. But you're going to Russia very soon. I am. And so I'm learning my Russian by saying I go to Russia. That's really cool. Yeah,

so I'm working hard on that. Uh huh. And why are you going there? Well? Is it a secret? No, my girlfriend has all right, it's really it's really for the CIA, And I'm oh wow, I'm covering some UFO mysteries over there. Oh cool. Or I'm visiting my girlfriend's relatives. Oh that's fun. Yeah, so it should be fun. I've never been there, uh huh. And you know, we may be able to do the show while I'm there. That would be so cool.

That would be And I am actually now my girlfriend's parents both have had some amazing sightings, but of course they speak not English. Huh, So are you going to try to record for your podcast? Are you going to try to record out there and then send it over to the Dark Matter radio guys and have them posted or something. No, No, I'm doing a pre recorded show this week before while I'm gone, And then I have a co host taken over for me, Michael Louk, who used to do the news

with me before you came along. He's going to do a show for me as well. Oh cool, So all good, yeah, fun stuff. Well that's cool. Well you have fun over there, and stay safe, buddy, I will. Well that's not coming up for a few weeks anyway, but yeah, yes, so all right. Well, well the thing is with the holiday coming up and with my inconsistencies with this my show, you know, who knows how many shows we'll have before you leave. So that's right. Since we're here, might as well say, hey, have

fun. Today's guest is Gene Steinberg from the Pera Cast, And I'm really excited about this because they've had me on a couple of times and then Gene and I figured out that we live near each other, and we've gone to lunch here and then, and he's a really interesting guy with an incredible history in this field going back decades. So we're going to have a lot of fun talking about UFO history. All right, Well, let's get into the UFO news for the week, and let's let you started off. What story

would you like to talk about to start off our news discussion. Well, I'd like to talk about my old chum, Seth Showstock. H Okay, the title is on Open Minds dot TV. As senior Setia scientists suggest, you might be Martian. Now, I thought this is a Arcley wrote in the Huffington Post, and Seth Showstock Actually I've done a u of UFO debate with him, but it was a gentleman's debate and had him on the show. He's he's even though I don't agree with everything, I like him.

He's very likable. He's a great speaker and a lot of fun. But he's actually saying that he thinks it's possible that billions of years ago, tiny bits of biology actually got knocked off the planet like in rocks and floated for about you know, a year or much more and could have actually done the old what is it called parent spam, panned spermia and spermia to our planet.

I mean, it's a possibility. And I actually kind of you know, I wrote him an email today kind of congratulating him for being a little bit on the open mind, you know, thinking about this now. He did tell me in conversation that he gets about forty five hundred emails a month, which is I don't know how, you know, instead of looking up at the sky, computers do all the work, so he has time to kick around and answer emails. So he's very good actually about answering emails from

certain people. And you know, he's always been good answering emails with me. But I thought that was good, and I I said, you know, I just wrote him and just said, well, you know, I'm really surprised the rover hasn't found any life signs of you know, former life as of yet. And I really am surprised about that. And then I said, unless they're holding it from us with a big smiley face. Saw, I'm sure he has something to say about that. Yeah, But anyway,

check out the article. It is pretty interesting. You know, this could have happened billions of years ago, and it's very much a possibility. But where that life started, you know who knows. Mm hmm, yeah. And I the reason, I well, I wanted to write about it because it's kind of fun, you know, says shot Sex as you might be a Martian, but that reason, and I wanted to enter and could be to his dismay. I mean, he may not appreciate it, but

oh well, I wanted to do it anyway because it's it's fun. But I wanted to interject that there is a group, and we've talked about him, are written about him quite a bit called the Center of Astrobiology out of the University of Birmingham, and actually they work with the University of Alabama too,

who has an astro a NASA astrobiology group there. But there are astrobiologists out there who believe they've already got evidence of life in space, extraterrestrial life, and that they have some of this evidence from rocks that have come from Mars, all things that, as you said, Shasak was saying as possible. But I think Shostak is of the mainstream perspective that we haven't discovered any proof yet, but there are are, you know, scientists. In fact,

we had one at the conference a couple of years ago. Who was a NASA scientist who leaded an interview and we posted it on YouTube and it was very popular and spawned a lot of news. But yeah, there are these people, these scientists who believe they've all they really believe in this panspermea idea. But I wanted to share that there are a lot of mainstream scientists

of this perspective and what Shastak makes a point of. And I've interviewed another scientist before on the show who was a skeptic about UFOs and stuff but loved talking about this kind of stuff, who makes the point that we don't know how or when or where life sparked. So when that combination of you know, innate chemicals or whatever happened and created life, we don't know where that or how that happened, And it could have happened on a planet other than

ours, we don't know right right now. That whope. The whole thing about you know, the very first spark of life is just, you know, it's kind of like mind blowing to really trying to try to, you know, understand how that could have actually happened, you know, is it all an accident? Yeah? You know, who knows you know, the right chemicals, the right energy, whatever, all happening at once. It's

it's really, you know, quite the topic. And I know that they're trying to you know, in labs, they are trying to reproduce you know, initial life from nothing type of thing to see how it actually happened. But whether it happened here, happened on Mars, or happened somewhere else and then bounced over to Mars and bounced over to us, you know who knows. It's Yeah, it is a fascinating topic, I think. Yeah.

And then there are more stories this week too about and I haven't read them actually, but someone else writing about that, and some other scientists discussing how life could be like a virus, you know, it's just something that spreads and infests planets out there all over the place. So it could be you know, more of kind of a widespread kind of thing that just travels from place to place. So really interesting that we just don't know and these possibilities

and so and Shostaks are a fun writer and he's a fun speaker. So I liked his write up on that. It was really cool. Great, Yeah, yep, so cool. I'm glad you liked that one. So a couple of things I wanted to talk about. First, I wanted to talk about and have you ever had Tom Read on your show? Yes? Actually I just I just talked with him over the weekend. Uh huh.

He was at the Experience to Speak I was at in Portland, Maine, along with something you know, Grant cameraon and and oh yeah, and I don't want to steer this the wrong way, but you know, Stan Friedman was there and did a completely different talk than normal and it was really fantastic. Huh. And he said it was the first time he ever tried it, and he's going to be out there talking more. I don't know if I should repeat, you know, the things he said, if it's going

to be available whatever, but but anyway, it was really good. It was a it was what was the topic that he talked about, Well, it's kind of just different takes on things he said before, but really getting into details of basically what is going on on on Earth and you know, why why they if they were visiting us, why they want to distance himself from us. He's talked, you know, touched on that in different ways, but this time he really got into it in great depth and statistically and

all that. So he was he was fun. I always enjoy listening to him talk. Oh yeah, hear him speak a million times. I think everybody really does. I mean, he's one of the people love hearing from him. So he won't be speaking at the u next UFO Congress, but he will be there so, which is a lot of fun. He loves to be there. So I don't know, we might get him on a panel or something, or who knows, if somebody gets sick, maybe we'll

see if he wants to talk. But just because you know, we like to have new and different people, and we've got a lot of people on the list that I think a lot of people haven't heard. I know, are spectacular and they're gonna love so so and people love to hear from him so and I do too. He's he's That's what is really funny is that he loves to challenge Showstack. But they both have similar senses of humor. They're both very witty and informative and intelligent and articulate. I feel they have

a lot of similarities. Can I tell you something kind of but you know, don't let anyone else hear it. No, yeah, you can't, okay, geez, all right, Well Steph told me that he would never debate Stan again. Wow. Yeah, but he not to tell anyone. You just hold all kuinds of people. Oh oh my goodness. Yeah. So anyway, Tom Reid, he essentially, I guess a group of witnesses created a monument to the sightings and events that had taken place to Tom Reid

and his family back in the sixties. And this was in the news I guess there was when they did their memorial or dedication to this memorial. There was at least a local celebrity I guess ay a country music music or artists there and uh and you know the radio station that's still there where when this happened, there were other people who witnessed this UFO that that that Tom Reid and his family say they believe, you know, took them on board.

Uh, but that there were other people who reported this to the local radio station, you know, many many years ago in the sixties, and that radio station was there at the event to help represent you know, the station, and the news was there and they did a piece on it. So it got some local news and everything, and I know, Tom's really excited about that, so I wrote about that, and so that's kind of fun.

That's kind of interesting. And the memorial is by this bridge and it's kind of cool because it's this big concrete thing with a plaque on it and it's right next to this old the old Sheffield Bridge, cover the bridge. Yeah, covered bridge is beautiful bridge and it's definitely a very scenic monument, a very pretty place. And of course monuments when it comes to this field are not numerous. There's some around the world, but so this is kind

of unique and fun. Yeah, I think of like the Betty Barney Hill, Randallston Forrest, the incident down in Westfall, Australia. Those are all places that have monuments. So there's just a handful that you're right worldwide. And it is kind of weird sitting next to, you know, an old

covered brick. But I guess that's where actually something happened. Yeah, that's where you know, they drove through this bridge, I guess, and when they came out on the other side they saw these strange lights and had a moment of missing time where they were bored this craft for a period of time and other people had seen the lights as well, I guess, and that you know, sighting was a blue Book sighting and it was researched by people

including J Allen Heineck, and so it's in the blue Book files. And I guess it's one of the cases that was listed in a bunch of credible cases that J. Allen Heineck said he thought was credible that he mentioned at the UN when he did a talk at the UN. Yeah, well that just goes to show you got to keep away from those covered bridges. Yeah, you know, well that's like a time travel thing or something. That's what's fun about this and about the image with the bridge. I think covered

bridges there's kind of an air of mystery in the around them. I think for some reason, you know, you stories of just hauntings and stuff, and they're just kind of there's also a nostalgia around them. There's just an air about these old bridges. I think that are fun and that's what makes it just very scenic and a pleasant scene there. Yeah, I'm on board with that. Yep. So the other thing I wanted to talk about, and I don't hopefully you've been able to take a look at these and I

think we even talked a little bit about this on your show. But these UFO triangles, we get a lot of reports about UFO flying triangles, and recently Roger Marsh has kind of been going through the moufon databases looking for mostly cases that are closed already so they've been investigated where there are pictures and or videos of associated with these triangle sightings. And so there are several of them out. The latest one that we just posted, I think on Friday.

It's really cool. And this is in Mississippi, and this is a person who says they are a ufologist, have been for fifteen years, and they live in the Memphis area, and that they recently had been seeing and actually this occurred in February. So in February they were seeing lights on several occasions about the same time over the house or in the area. And this lady saw the lights at about one am, and she's been wanting to try to get footage of it, but she so she ran outside. She's barefoot,

she's in her you know, pajamas or whatever. It's there's snow on the ground. So she got a few seconds of these lights and she said it looked like it was a triangular craft that was hovering over these corn fields. She was able to watch it for a total of twenty minutes. And these lights are really weird. I mean, if you look at this video and these pictures, they're very strange. The local UFO investigator couldn't figure out what they were, so he marked them as an unknown And I can't figure out

what they are either. I mean, they look a little bit maybe like flares, but military flares because they're all grouped together. However, you know, this isn't an area where there is military and it's an area you know, it's kind of it's about a suburb kind of of Memphis, so there's a lot of people in the area. It doesn't seem like that. And it's not a military proving ground, which is usually where these things happened.

So I don't know what these things are. Really strange. They don't look like a triangle, but she says that it was a triangle shape they were associated with. So and then there's another one from this one was filmed in January and this person took a bunch of pictures of these lights hovering over the road and it's kind of one of the pictures that's really neat where they're driving on the highway and you could see the lights above the highway at night.

And they took some pictures, a bunch of pictures that are really interesting of these lights. I guess it's possible these lights could have been a plane because it's not a video. But this person said, you know, the object was quiet and they saw a big triangular craft. And then another video is from a guy who used to be in the Navy. He worked in Navy rescue. He says he knows navy aircraft and he knows aircraft warning lights. This was not a normal aircraft. He said it was triangular in shape and

it had lights around it. He got a short video. The video, again is just lights in the sky, but they are blinking in a weird pattern. They're blinking very strangely, and they are in a triangular formation. So it's just kind of interesting that a lot of people are seeing these triangles and we have these pictures and videos. Unfortunately, there are all nighttime sighting, so you can't really make out a shape of a craft. And in the end, when it comes down to the videos and pictures, there just

lights in the night sky. But coupled with the witness testimony, really interesting stuff. It is. You know, going back to the Lewisbourg Mississippi one, the lights are like clustered, clustered and almost like omnidirectional, like they're going facing out in different directions. I don't know if you notice that. So it's not like they're all like you know, a lot of times when you see lights in the sky, you can see the whole light like an

orb or something like that. But yeah, appear as they're turning like they're actually toward a direction, Like each light is like facing out toward a direction. It's really very very strange. I like the video. Yeah, so at those lights, you know, the other pictures and videos, I think someone could easily dismiss with, you know, if they just wanted to throw out the witness testimony as planes or maybe a drone with LEDs on it or

something like this. But hers that Mississippi one, I don't know what the heck that is. Those are really weird clusters of lights and every you know, and they change like their positions. So yeah, that's a weird video, it really is. Yeah, what's going on with these triangles? Man? This is weird stuff. I don't know and who I got to comment the other day on a show from Don Ecker the Old Time you know you follow, just just saying that he thinks there, you know again, he's

talking about the military craft. He thinks a lot of them are you know, secret military craft. And you know, who's to say they're not. I mean, I just yeah, they could be that just as easy as anything else. It's just the fact that it sure seems like we would know something about him if they actually were military. It seems like the leak would get out there somehow. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I don't know. Yeah, who knows. Really interesting stuff though. So that's the UFO news

for the week. Everybody can of course check that out at Openminds dot tv. And thank you Martin for joining us again, and of course you can hear Martin and his antics over on his podcast podtast podcast UFO. Thanks man, we'll be talking next week or real soon. Actually, all right, talk to you soon, buddy, You gotcha. I am very excited to have Jean Steinberg joining me. Hello, Jean, Well, I'm glad you're excited that I'm excited. I am, and this is fun because I was

thinking about this earlier. It's like you do a popular podcast to para cast with Chris O'Brien, and of course I do this podcast, And in order for our listeners to find out more about us, the podcasters, they've got to listen to someone else's podcast with us on it so they can hear about our backgrounds and stuff. Isn't that kind of funny unless you share that sort of thing on your show. Well, we don't list to other shows that

much, not because we don't like the other shows. It's because it's not fair to single out a few and not list them all. So if someone has a show, like you have a show, and Micah Hanks has a show, we allow you to publicize what you're doing. But if it was a case of listing a lot of shows, the ones we leave out what about them? And then if it was a case of advertising, well, of course, since we're doing a commercial radio show that's actually heard on terrestrial

radio stations, we already run enough commercials. Yeah. No, I guess what I meant was like, in order to find out about Alejandro Rojas and my thoughts, they would need to listen to when I was on your show and talked about that sort of thing to find that out, and then for your listeners, you know, we'll probably get into some stuff in this show that your listeners don't know about you. So it's just kind of funny, ironic, I guess, And if I don't know, if I don't know

the answer, I'll make it up. Yeah, good, good, good good. Well this is exciting because you've been in this for so long, and you know some of the guys you know that have also been in this for so long and had some interesting insight into way back when and how everything's gone. But I guess to start off, let's start off with how did you get interested in UFOs? A silly story. I was eleven years old, and a lot of people who have become interested in UFOs did it at

the age of eleven. In my particular case, I was visiting my brother Wally at a home in Brooklyn, New York, and on his coffee table was a copy of a book called Flying Saucers from Outer Space by Major Keyhoe. Don't ask me why I said this. He wasn't home, he was at work. I asked his wife, can I read that book? And she said, you know, it's a library book. We have to return it in a couple of weeks, but borrow it if you want. So, okay, I took the book home. I read the book in a

couple of evenings, and I was hooked. I guess I can see that that was one of the first books I read, or at least one of Key Hoost's books, and I just found it. I guess what was fascinating to me about it is I didn't know anything that was in the book, and everything that was in the book was very valid, very interesting, and not the type of thing you see in documentaries. Well, in those days,

we didn't have documentaries so much as we do now. I mean, you actually had these what ten to fifteen minute news segments in the movies before you saw the show movie tone news or something like that. Not much so much. A documentary is kind of half a newscast. Yeah, And can I ask about what year was this? Oh? When I read the book? Oh, this would well, I don't know. I don't really want to reveal that because that would reveal too much about me. Let's assume it's

a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. But I do have an interesting story about the book by Keyho Flying saucerss No Matter of Space. The book came out and by the way, in nineteen fifty three, Uh cool, I have a story about it, which probably some of you heard of. No I want to hear it. Okay, So the book was bought by Hollywood. Okay, m hm. And Keio mentions this in one of his subsequent books because he had to live it down. The optioned the

book. I yes, he thought it was going to be a documentary. And there was a film that came out in nineteen fifty six, a very famous film with really really good special effects from the nineteen fifties, and the first maybe thirty seconds or a minute shows something that's almost a UFO documentary. And then it was a b sci fi movie about aliens trying to conquer Earth. It was a movie that featured special effects by Ray Harry Howsen. So

many of you people know what it is. Some of the best special effects in a movie of this sort that you've ever seen up until more recent times. The movie was called Earth Versus the Flying Saucers, okay, And if you look at the Wikipedia entry on it, it's based on Flying Saucers from Outer Space by Donald Kehoe rather superficially. So I don't think Keho ever lived that down, because if you read about it in subsequent books of his he

was really embarrassed over what they did. But of course, when you option a book to Hollywood, they do anything they want with it, unfortunately, and that is really interesting. I think it's interesting too. I mean I heard this recently, maybe you heard this prior, but Close Encounters, you know, being based off of a lot of Heine's work, or I'm doing consulting on that. I think I love Close Encounters, but Heine hated it,

and I guess I can see that. When you know, nobody likes someone portraying their hard work, especially someone who's been rigorous and careful at you know, verifying sources and information and not getting it accurately. Well, that's really part of the issue there. You don't expect a Hollywood movie to be an accurate representation, even if it's ripped from the headlines as they do on TV. Sometimes it's based on a real story, they're going to compress it

to fit an hour and a half two hours. They're going to telegraph certain events because they want to make an entertaining film. It's about entertainment, it's about getting good box office. It's not about telling a factual story. But what's worse is that the news media is very much like that nowadays. It's about getting the ratings yep. And that means again, right, it means creating battle lines where they don't exist, emphasizing the most sensational aspects of a

story. I will say they make it up, but we could argue about that with certain cable TV networks, that's for sure. So at one point then, did you get actively involved where you you know, what was your first active involvement with either research or media, or you know, something bigger than just reading what was out there. Mid nineteen sixties, I became one

of those teen ufologists that would put out their own mat magazines. Oh cool, So I put out my own magazine and it lasted I think thirteen issues, lucky thirteen till the time I think I was twenty or so, and I ran out of money. So I went over to my friend Jim Mosley of Saucer News, and I said, Jim, I have this magazine with a few hundred subscribers. Would you be willing to take over the subscriptions, and he said sure, and he said, by the way, you know,

I was a college student at the time, studying broadcasting. By the way, I've got a job for you if you'd like to make five dollars an hour, as is nineteen sixties dollars the minimum wage was a dollar fifty. It's like making I think I figured it out once. It's like making today maybe fifty or seventy dollars an hour. Wow, a lot of money. Five dollars an hour in the nineteen fifties, and I was in seventh Heaven. I said yes. So that's when I became super active. Wow.

Now, Jim Moseley, I've interviewed him. However, he's kind of a guy, and that's what's interesting about this field. And I guess that's what it's fun about doing what we do and why it's fun to interview someone like you. A lot of this history really gets lost to obscurity, and I'm afraid and that's why I bring him up as much as possible, that

Jim Moseley, now that he's passed away as one of those people. Even before he passed, he started kind of because he was so into print, you know, which was a dying art and was getting a bit lost to many. Jim Moseley was an interesting and important character in the UFO field for many years. What's sad about it is Jim didn't have a personal computer, never booked one. He did his publication Saucer Smear on an old Smith Corona

electric typewriter from the nineteen eighties. He would buy several of them, so in the type was gone, he'd have a new one. Wouldn't learn a personal computer. Didn't even have an answering system on his phone, and these days your phone provider will provide voicemail. Didn't have that, so if you called him and there was no answer, it's because he had no way to get that message. So he was very much into that. Also, in his last few years he gave away a lot of his stuff to other people.

One to a UFO researcher. I don't think he's still alive. Tom Benson got a lot of his material. I got a little bit of it, but not very much. He gave away a lot of his material. Now when he died, everything he had was kind of put out on the doorstep at the apartment where he lived, and it was given away or sold for very little money. In fact, someone posted a message in our forums this is weeks after Jim died, asking if people want to buy things?

I mean, really sad. I know at one point Jim was very, very dedicated to keeping a personal diary. I don't know whatever happened to it right now, other than the episodes you did with Open Minds and the many episodes we did on the Power Cast with Jim and other shows on what she appeared. The book shockingly close to the truth that he wrote with Carl Flock in the early two thousands. That's probably the closest to a real autobiography you'll

ever get. And now he ran this paper, this newsletter, Saucer News, which eventually turned in to Saucer Smear. When you were with him doing Saucer News, how popular did it get about? You know what was the largest the subscription got? It actually got I think to as much as seventy five hundred or ten thousand people. Wow, really really terrific. The problem then, is that the magazine was never, in terms of production values good enough to be on the newsstands. I think if it was, it could

have sold ten times that amount. It would require more work. You'd have to have a larger magazine, right or he had it would be a professional

looking magazine, but at the tip of being super professional. And there what he achieved was tremendous because for many years he had less than a thousand subscribers, and then things kind of dropped back and Jim got overworked and frustrated with everything very much after having this major UFO conference in nineteen sixty seven, so two or three years later, he handed it off to his friend Gray Barker, who basically ran it into the ground. And then go ahead, I

was going to ask, when did it turn into the Saucer smear? Okay, mid seventies, Jim tries to bring something back a regular publication. And to give you an example of this, during the days of Saucer News, there was a second magazine called the Non Scheduled Newsletter. They'd bring out like every couple of months, and he charged a little bit extra for you to

get a copy. I think in connection with that, what we do here on the Power Cast is we have a free show and then we have a premium show called Powercasts Plus, which is the ad free version of our regular show. And then we add an extra program called after the Power Cast. So in Jim's days, we had a non scheduled newsletter. When he came back. He decided to come out with four or eight pages of something. And in the early days he would take the name Saucer and the second word

would be something else. It wasn't smear, which it later became. It was something else, and every issue would be a different name, like who or Saucer or water or whatever. Every issue would be a different name. He did this for a few years. I remember I was working at a pre press typography shop in New York City and I learned these skills doing magazines and I would generate bunches of headlines to them or just individual letters, and he kind of cut and paste them and come up with a new name.

One day he said, let's just call it smear. And that's how it started. Well, and it's really funny, and I guess I'm guessing, and you can tell me whether I'm run or wrong that he began as you know that, I'm sure the Saucer news was more serious kind of news and information, but the Smear came into where it was kind of laughing at the

UFO community pointing out, you know, almost like a gossam piece. And I do know other researchers who would, you know, secretly feed him information so he could make fun of him or call him out on something, which is good. You know, I think it's not problem to call people out on some silliness or whatever. But and you can kind of see people evolve into this. People in this field who are observing the field kind of begin to get a little well, not just frustrated, but also kind of laugh

at themselves. But the entire kind of how it all works. Well, the thing about Jim is that you had, at the core of it a very serious interest in UFOs. He played games in the early days of saucer News. Saucer News began its existence in nineteen fifty four as Nexus short for Connecting Link, but people didn't understand the name, so eventually he said, okay, saucer News. It was a heavy mixture of really serious information,

really serious research. In nineteen fifty seven they did an expose of Georgia Dampsky via Dampski Expose Edition, And if you go online now when you look for Jimmosley dot com, it's actually published there. It's run by our good friend Kirk Collins, and I actually hosted on my web server, so I guess I'm behind that site. But Kirk does the day to day work. But

that's where you can catch up with Jim Moseley. So right there, we're collecting stuff about him from different people, interviews and everything, and it gets posted. So that and the book, I guess maybe maybe that would be sufficient. But as far as the back issues of Saucer News and some of the Saucer smears, they're all over the place right still trying to collect those. I used to have every issue of Saucer News until the end. What

happened. I moved a few times. I had to shed stuff. Maybe I moved a few times with a little bit of encouragement from the landlord, as we all have, and over time I had to get rid of stuff. I remarried in nineteen seventy six, and at that point we're building a new life, and she said, do you really need all this stuff? And I looked at it and said, well, I'm probably going to have

to get rid of some of that, and I did. So I have maybe a fraction of the UFO related stuff I used to have I think if I kept it all and anytime I needed money, if I put that stuff on eBay, I probably would have made a pretty penny. Yeah, that's right. I would have been buying from it. And I know others who well and you do too, who love to keep an eye out for that sort of stuff. They kind of preserve it. But so you brought up

a damp Ski and so for people who don't know Georgia Damski. In the fifties, you know, there were these contact these people who believe they were talking to aliens. Georgia Damski was one of those. And he has a lot of alleged photograph even a video of ufo, and this ufo is kind of the iconic UFO. It's funny. I'm into watching like these Japanese anime and stuff like that, and they're always showing the Adamski ufo where it has the three little balls on the bottom half, you know, circle type of

things. But a lot of people credit mostly with kind of busting a dam Ski. And were you involved with that investigation and what did you guys find. Well, as I said, having the nineteen fifty seven a little before my time in terms of UFO research. But no, he worked with a few of his colleagues and they put the information together, not showing the ge on the bottom of the landing balls, but the point being that this was

basically absurd. The photo was absurd, It was visibly absurd, and all the things about it that a professional photo analysts would consider show it to be a very poorly built model. Now there was one really significant thing in the Adamski expose a issue, and once again it's available at Jimoseley dot com for you to read. And the thing that's significant is he said to one of his supporters, sometimes you have to go through the back door to spread the

truth. And the truth was not that Et landed here wearing a silver uniform like Michael Rennie did as Klatou and they the earth stood still. The truth was, well, you know, we need to be nice to one another. And if Georgia Dampski says that we should give up war, who listens to him? This is the height of the cold water. But if these

edicts came from Et, they get more credibility. So I guess he felt the truth that he had to spread, and he looked for a way to make it palatable because who's Georgia Dampski or who was Jeordie Jadamski before he said

he was contacted, And that may be a lot of it. It's also possible, and this is a very outside theory that I voiced occasionally, and you can feel free to throw it in the garage, and that is that perhaps some of these contactees had some early paranormal experience at one point in time, and maybe in telling it they got more prestige, They were taken more seriously than maybe they otherwise were, so suddenly their followers or whoever believed in

them, no doubt, expected more, so they had to make up a few things. Yeah, interesting that. Both of those are interesting ideas. The first idea about you know, having this message important message coming from some authority is probably what has spawned many religions. But yeah, when you're talking about it, you know, Ben Hants uses this term legendizing, where there's like, you know, someone takes a UFO video or picture that's real,

and then people expect more so they begin faking. A lot of people speculate that could be what happened with Billy Meyer, because certainly many of much of his stuff has been completely debunked. But I mean, have you seen it does seem like maybe that phenomena has been repeated over the years in what sense you mean of the people kind of getting a bit of notoriety witnesses and then having to seemingly having to, you know, keep coming up with stuff.

Well, we can't prove that, you know, we can only prove that the information appears to be false. There's no evidence for it. Photographs appear to be fake. So we could look on the service and say it's all nonsense, it's a theory, it's all none sense. They're making up stories. But there's always the possibility at the core of it there was some kind of real event that made them do this. I mean, what inspired Georgia Damski to say he met et? I guess the guy's name was Orthon in

the calif Fournia Desert. Did he believe that? Was he deluded? Did he make it up? Why? Because selling hot dogs at Mount Palomar wasn't enough for him? What motivated him to do that? What motivates a Billy Meyer for doing what he does? Does he truly believe in what he says that he can predict things? When he can't that his photographs are are genuine

when they're obvious fakes. Does he believe that he meets space women who look like a couple of actresses or models on the old Dean Martin TV show in nineteen seventies. I mean, is he crazy or is he just trying to make a profit. Yeah, and these people are not going to necessarily confess.

And I think these are some of the questions that Mosley kind of tackled, And I think that's why he wanted to highlight some of this stuff that goes on, because it seems like that was an outstanding question for him as well. It is and again, we don't have contact these sitting back and confessing. The closest we came to that it's really crazy was Howard Mener. Now, as you remember, Howard Mener was someone who claimed a damnsea type

contact, meaning handsome humans from Venus, Saturn or whatever places were. Obviously life as we know it could not survive. He made those claims. He was a sign painter and the pictures he produced looked like paintings. In fact, one of a UFO was a painting of the flying saucer taking off in the movie day of the Earth stood still. Look it up yourself now. One day, this is an interesting story. One day Jim Moseley at Saucer

News gets a phone call from Howard Mander. I was there working next to Jim, and he says he wants to have lunch with Jim, and I was there across for the ride. So we went across the street and met him at a diner on Fifth Avenue in New York City, and Manders said, you know what I'm thinking here that this whole contact was staged by the government. The experiences I have were really a government test of some sort, and I got hooked up in it. And that's what he said. He

went on and on. He seemed like a perfectly decent guy, and then he and his family moved over to Florida, where he said he was building a flying saucer. Don't ask me to explain the connection, but that is at least one person who for a time admitted his contacts were not real. Again, he said it was a government trickery or something like that. What made it worse, though, was that Mennger appeared on The Long John Neble

Show. He had a TV show for about a year or so, but Long John never really transferred to TV that well, I don't do TV either because they don't cast the reflection. So he goes on Long John's show and he is used to hearing Howard Mender's story and he expects that story. Instead, Mennger goes on and on about this possible government involvement, and John did not like to be surprised. He took it gamely, I guess, But the impression you got was that long John was very upset that the stick didn't

work. Mensor changed the rules, and I think it wasn't it that Menjor also then later said, oh, that government paid me off and told me they had let me build the UFO. If I said that my experiences weren't real but they were real later in his life, it got to be pretty

confusing. Yeah, yeah, it got to be pretty confusing. So the point is here is that if et comes into flying saucer and they land in front of Howard Manager, why would that craft look to be the same as in a nineteen fifty one sci fi movie unless you want to say, well, this movie they the earth stood still, some of that stuff represented real ets. Maybe Gork was really the actual robot there, not just something that Hollywood invented. I mean, it's nonsense. That's what's difficult about this.

You know, I'm sure you get this, and we do as well. And it's one thing I struggle with and I is that we get a lot of people contacting us that say I'm talking to aliens. Aliens are telling me x y Z. And the question is whether they believe that to be true or not. Of course, they're the only ones receiving these communications, and what they have to say is not the same as the next person who contacts you or the dozens of others who have contacted you, and so I typically

stay away from that. I don't have those people on I. Typically we don't really have them at the Congress. Typically, if we do, it's people who have experiences, at least alleged to have experiences, hopefully with other witnesses or something. But and that's the outstanding question is do these people really believe that they're having contacts? Although I do hear anecdotally that some of them know very well that they're not having things experiences, but they make it up

just to go to conferences. What are your thoughts? I like to think they're just making it up, because if they're not, they're probably crazy. At least a lot of them are. It doesn't mean that some people aren't having experiences. It doesn't mean that some people are not channeling something they believe they're they believe they're channeling et M. There are people who believe that there

are people who have experiences that they interpret in that way. I think for the most part, those aren't the people who go out and seek attention M. I think the people who get up front and go on TV and go on radio and write the books. I think they're looking for more than just trying to convey the information about an unusual experience. I mean, we have

all sorts of crazy things going on. We have near death experiences, we have abductions, we have people who claim to channel or be in contact with higher beings and getting all these messages. Now we could consider, all right, maybe a bunch of them are fake, Maybe a bunch of them are doing it for publicity. Maybe a bunch of them are having this experience and that's how they interpret it, and we need to find out what's going on.

I think if you forget about the people who are I call them, professional psychics, professional contact ease and put them away and forget about them and deal with just people having unusual experiences. It would be nice to understand it and understand the source. I don't think what they see is what they're getting though, And maybe you follow where I'm getting at it well and what I

also think about. And I think it's definitely akin to you know, the many, many religious people who believe they've gotten a message from Jesus or Allah or or from God, you know, at some point in their life. That's how they translate it. And similar to what you're saying, I think the vast majority of those people are just regular people, not seeking attention, who will share those stories, you know, with loved ones or trusted individuals,

maybe just a couple of times throughout their lives. But here again it comes back to what you just said, Yeah, what is the root? What's really happening in that experience? We don't get anywhere though, if we assume it is what it appears to be on the surface, if we assume it's just ET and ET is not just. But you get the point. If we assume that near death experiences do represent some visit to the Afterlife.

In fact, we had a very fascinating editorial guest editorial posted in our newsletter, the Powercast Newsletter, and also in our forums that form dot thepowercast dot com. There's the plug by red Pill Junkie where he pointed out the commonalities between near death experiences UFO, abductions and similar experiences. They may be a central cause, but we don't look at that at all. We look at

the surface possibility. Well, someone sees a UFO, maybe they're abducted and they meet aliens, or someone is in a state of clinical death for a few minutes and they see the afterlife. They're looking at the surface, but

not the substance. Right right, next topic. I wanted to ask you about interesting stuff there, Thank you, but I thought you would have some particular insight on kind of a debate that's that's a small debate, you know, on my Facebook this morning between a couple of people regarding something sas Shawstak

wrote today, he wrote about UFOs. He doesn't do that often, and of course he's he is a senior scientist for SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute UH and of course they're using more conventional means like trying to listen to radio signals and stuff. But he kind of said that, you know that the whole field is a bit dying, that they there aren't very any interesting cases anymore, and so people are debating that. Some people are saying

yes, uh. In fact, Chris Rutowski, who is a Canadian UFO researcher and he's going to present his work at the UFO Congress this year, actually he says, you know, he agrees that their studies have shown, you know that most of the sightings they are getting these days are not that interesting. Someone, as someone who's been writing and covering this stuff for day decades, what would your thoughts be on that the kind of sightings that we

had in the early days. I'm thinking in a sense of simultaneous radar visual sightings the mass UFO siding over in Washington, DC. A lot of those very sensational cases do not seem to occur, but we still have UFOs. So I don't know. That's a good question. Obviously, if you look at the number of reports that come out up move On or that Chris Rotzkowski has over at his site for Canada, there's a lot of stuff going on there. But again, the percentage of sightings that appear to be compelling,

I don't see a lot. I don't agree with the theory that some people have voiced that the UFOs actually left us a while back and that all the sightings are fake. These days, I still think it's going on well, and I would I think there's been a change, I mean as well in

the way our access. Whereas our government used to be at least open to discussing the topic, that's not the case anymore, and so especially the government is less open to sharing possible UFOs or unknowns that they haven't identified, and thus we seemingly have less access to some of the great information that people had in the past. Well, as you know, a lot of the information that Major Kio had came from the Air Force and the contacts he had at

the Air Force. So at that point there was Project Blue Book, and maybe we could say it was just a pr operation, but at least there was some information there. Now, officially, the US government no longer investigates UFOs, so we have no aspects or access to the sensational cases that we get them. They're no longer there. If they happen somebody might have the

information, but it's not being released officially. It doesn't exist. So one key source of information if you look at the early books from keyhow if you look at the book the Report on Unidentified Flying Objects by Edward Rupelt, you will see the government was a major source for these cases or cases a got llah of publicity in connection with a government investigation like Kenneth Arnold, like a lot of the other cases again nineteen fifty two, Washington, DC encounters those

things. But now we don't have that anymore. We've just got scattered individuals who report cases and maybe they'll call a move on or an arcap or they'll call you would open Minds, or they'll call Chris Rukowskier right to these people and they'll tell them what's going on. But we have no centralized source anymore. It's all individual people. And I think if really sensational cases are happening, they do not always get publicity. I suppose Stephenville, Texas was a

pretty decent case though, And that's not too long ago. Yeah, yeah, I see your point exactly. And over the years thinking about you know, you being in this field, and I know what happens with me. Are there cases along those lines, cases that you felt were great cases that didn't get the attention you thought they should or are being launched to obscurity. When you think about great cases, what are some of them that you think

about? You see, here's the issue here. A long time ago, and this was when I was working with Jim Osley, we reached the point in research saying, you know, there's enough cases out there unless something really changes. We have enough information. Let's figure out what it means. How many cases do we need to solve this? How many identical cases or with minor details do we need? I mean there are key cases like Rendelsham, It's gotten a lot of publicity. We ought to understand that. We should

understand that further. I'd still like to see what the final answer is in Roswell, but any of the key cases over the years, Stephenville, Texas, O'Hare Airport, Chicago. We have a few key cases, and we have loads of other cases, multiple witness cases, we have Sicaro, New Mexico. These are sightings that probably give us enough information. But having ten thousand more cases, will that give us more information? Or just give us

ten thousand more cases? Right? And I think that's what becomes difficult is that one I know Chris O'Brien is into this this kind of idea, is that as many cases as we get in the more cases that we get, it doesn't seem like we do get any more answers. And that's the problem too. I think a lot of the research that we're seeing nowadays in terms of UFOs, and that's the way it's been for a long time, is collecting sightings and maybe there's some basic investigation to say, well, is this

conventional or not? And if it doesn't seem to be conventional, it goes into this box. If it seems like we could go one way or the other, it goes in this box. Okay, now what do we do with it? What do we do with this information? Now? One way is to avoid the issue and just assume the government knows. Let's have disclosure, the government has the answers. We don't have to figure it out. Let's just collect sightings and make a lot of noise, and eventually the government

will best to tell us. This is the US government or any government, depending on what country you're in, the governments will tell us ET's here or whatever. The answer is so we can basically give up our consideration of investigations and let them do it, pass it off, pawn it off to somebody else. They'll figure it out or maybe they know already. And if we just say the right thing, we say it nicely, we send a petition with ten million people, which will never happen. They'll let us know the

truth. Let's ask President Obama. Look, he had John Podesta working for him. He believes in UFOs. He heads up the Hillary Clinton campaign that's going to do something. Oh yeah, he's been around since the nineties. He was interested in UFOs. Then what has that done for us? Yeah, so then it kind of makes it incumbent upon us or some interested civilian organization to do some sort of analysis, And that really hasn't happened. It's

just individual theorizing. It's either seed everything to the government and assume they know the answers and they'll tell us when they're good and ready we make a good case for it, or assume its spaceships. That's another thing. Let's assume its spaceships. Let's assume that. Okay, ET's coming here. Let's assume that. But how do we prove it do we prove it because we can look at Kepler two fifty two or something which appears to be an earthlike planet.

Can we say, well, look, we now have evidence of a possible world orbiting another star system that maybe we'll have life as we know it. Therefore that proves ET is here. Well, no, it doesn't. Only proves that ET maybe somewhere, but that's still not telling us what's happening here and now. What it is doing is teaching us more about the universe and about what might be out there, but there's no direct connection. This is why I have a problem with SETI. So SETI is looking for signals

from another planet and hoping those signals will give us a clue. Well, first of all, if ET is out there, are they using that method to transmit? Would they even want that information to go to another star system, another civilization? Would they have some way of blocking it off so it doesn't reach us. Maybe they use subspace radio like in Star Trek. I don't know whatever it is. If they're advanced, they make me using a system that we do not detect. We're looking at this in terms of our

scientific achievement. Assuming if ET is out there, they'll send the message that we can reach. Then again, if you look at the speed of light and the limitations of transmission as we know it, the signals you pick up may be one hundred years old, one thousand years old, ten thousand years would even be well that civilization even exists anymore. If you respond to them, generations may pass before they hear your response, assuming they could even pick

up the signal. I think it's a waste of time. Yeah, yeah, I agree, I don't see out of all the things you can do

out there. And what's interesting is when you look at you know, at the beginning, when they were considering even rolling this project out way back in like the sixties, I think it was they debated and a lot of people didn't think it was worse it back then either with these same concerns, But here they are, and I think think you also bring up a lot of points, a lot of I think aspects of the research of UFOs, or at least you know, the investigation of them, that frustrate a lot of

people that I feel a lot of people just need to come to terms with, which is we can really prove nothing. Perhaps the only thing we can prove is that people, even police officers, even the military, are seeing things occasionally that they can't identify. And unfortunately, that's about as far as we can go. I think at this point we cannot solve this mystery until or unless somebody brings a smoking gun, whatever that is. And unfortunately,

the desperation of finding that smoking gun causes problems. We get so desperate that we have something like the Roswell slides. We're something that was obviously a slide of a mummy, a mummified child is suddenly morphed into a possible alien. I mean, it's absurd, that's desperation. Those who maybe promoted it may have been looking for fame and fortune, but those who supposedly knew better, who fell for it, they were desperate. So we have one problem,

the desperate search for evidence to prove something. And right now I don't know where it's going to go because I don't think we know much more about UFOs now than we did in the nineteen fifties. The basic theory is still the same. Its et. Maybe it's not from Mars, it's okay, from

Zeta reticuli, same basic theory. There are few people around the edges like us, Chris O'Brien and certainly I know you fall into this category, and Micah Hanks and others who look at UFOs as part of an overall mystery or collection of mysteries that may involve a lot more than just being visited by et.

I think that what happens with people too, and why it's important to come to terms is, you know, people spend their life looking for answers, and they come to the realization that, wow, I've been working on this for decades, I only have a few decades or less to be on this planet. That before I pass away, what if I don't have any

more answers? And I spent my whole life without those answers. And I've talked to a lot of the very much older, the people who maybe only have years left researchers, and you know what, that's just something that they have, for the most part, come to terms with, and I think that they may not have anti before they pass, just like many of their friends before them, and many of our friends who have passed in the last few years who were in this field, and coming to terms, then you're

not as desperate. And because you're right that desperation leads people to mistakes. Well, what happens here is you get so desperate as time passes, you get very, very desperate for things to happen, for answers, and suddenly you're skeptical factor, your ability to discern fact from fiction fails you because you're desperate. Yeah, blinders on your eyes. Oh this is the answer,

it's going to be realized. Well, you know what, I've been here a long time, and so the number of years left unless we discover a way to live forever, the number of years left is far less. I'm paraphrasing Captain Picard in one of the Star Trek movies. The number of years that have passed is far more in the number of years that are left to live. And I don't see us ever getting an answer. I like to I like to think, you know, I spent most of my life chasing

after this stuff. I would love to see an answer, but I'm not going to make one up. I'm going to let events happen as they are. I would hope that whatever force is responsible would tell us, But it maybe that it's the search that's all that we're meant to search to discover more about our universe, and that is the mystery, not to have an immediate solution that's et or something. Yeah, yep, I agree with you.

And you know then, you know what comes to mind is when you talk about discernment and the loss of discernment, you have these people who are you know, luminaries, not in just ufology, but people like you know, dare I say, and I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna go there like Paul Hellier, who I've met and is a great person. I really like Paul Hellier. But you know, he's going out saying that a lot of things he's heard anecdotally are real. A lot of stuff he's read on the

internet are real. And it's unfortunate because he has because he was a defense minister in Canada, people think, oh my gosh, he's got some insight, this all must be real, when he's got no more information on all of this than the listeners or you and I do. He's got less than you and I do, actually, because I know he hasn't been in this as long as you and I have been, and there's others. Boyd Bushman

I think fits in that category. And I always wonder, you know, I hope I don't get there to where I just don't care and I start saying all this stuff that I think, you know, And is this what happens to us when we get older. I don't know where we lose our discernment and just start kind of creating this alternate reality that we profess it's the truth. It might just be desperation. Yeah, you know what, I don't have too many years left, and Paul Hellier is in his eighties.

I've got to have an answer. Maybe this is the answer. I hope I'll become that desperate if I survive for the eighties. Yeah, I hear your brother. Well, peric cast is still going, it's still going strong. When did you start doing the para cast? We started in February two thousand and six. In fact, our first guests were Jim Osley and Brad Steiger. Oh cool, two thousand and six. So we're doing it for about nine and a half years. So coming February we'll celebrate ten years of

doing this and maybe we'll get it right. Ah, And there are no plans in the future of it going away, right, you're planning on moving forward. Well, here's the thing. If I disappeared tomorrow. I guess Chris would take over the show. I mean there's not really a succession plan. Yeah, but for as long as I can keep going, I'll keep going. When people decide they don't want me anymore, well I'll take the hint and I'll retire. I mean I should have been retired by now,

but you know, nobody can afford to retire anymore. Uh huh. And I guess before we're done, one more interesting fact about you is that this isn't the only thing you do as UFOs. You actually also are involved in technology, right, reviewing and writing about the latest gadgets and stuff. I started that in the early nineties. Now, it's not the first time I

wrote. I wrote an edited magazines throughout much of my life. But I had the opportunity to become a writer for We're a magazine called Macworld back in the early nineties covering stuff from Apple Incorporated. And over time I wrote thirty books on computers, personal technology, that sort of thing I wrote for a

lot of magazines. We have a radio show now, which we started back in two thousand and two, as a matter of fact, called The technight Ow Live, and it is about personal technology, computers, and we do it kind of like I Meet the Press kind of thing where I bring on a guest and I interview them and I talk to them, and we interview fellow journalists. We interview people who are representative of tech companies. We've had Google on there, We've had Apple, Microsoft, and we talk about products,

and we talk about gadgets and we speculate. So, for example, on September ninth, which is my birthday, as a matter of fact, presence welcome, we will be talking about Apples and media event in San Francisco where they are expected to roll out new iPhones as such. So that's the kind of thing we do. That's the other world. I also have something called technightoul dot com, which is a tech blog I've been doing since nineteen

ninety nine. So I live into world or maybe more, but I'm too crazy to realize it, right, But two major ones that you're spending all your time in, which is really really interesting stuff. Of course, I'm sure a lot of listeners are, but I'm definitely a gadget guy, and I just realized too at my life without even purposefully kind of going there, I guess out of convenience. I've become totally Mac. My house is like totally Mac. I've got the iPhone, the MacBook, the iPad, and

I'm definitely someone well people know from social media and everything. I'm someone who lives online. So fun stuff. So thanks so much for being on the show. Do you want to do? You plug some of your stuff, but you can go ahead and plug away. You've got the para cast. Maybe give people the URL and the URL to the forum as well. Well. The best thing to do if you want to find out about the power Cast is go to the power Cast. That's thgpowercast dot com and that's our

portal where you can check out everything. And you'll see a nav bar at the top of the screen where you can just go to the technology so a show, you can go to the science fiction novel my son and I wrote. You can see everything from there. There's a direct link to the forums. There's also a direct link to our premium service, which is the Powercast Plus, and that allows you to get the ad free version of the show and after the power Cast and extra features. That's all at thepowercast dot com.

That makes it simple. They don't have to remember too much right, all right, well, thank you so much for being on the show. We'll definitely do this again in the future. It's always a lot of fun to talk to you, and thank you very much. You're very welcome. Thank you so much to Jeanne for coming on the show. It was a lot of fun to talk to him. He's a really cool dude and I

think has some really great insight. I mean, he's someone who's been in this for a really long time, as you can tell by listening to him. And what's cool is he someone that has kind of come to peace with the field, so to say. And I think once you do, you know, aren't able to stand back and not only look at yourself and your

career in this field and get some perspective. Then it does help you give perspective when you're looking at other people's work, and maybe even does help you kind of figure out where people might be going wrong when it comes to like the roswell slides or other things, just because you can sympathize with their want for answers, but at the same time you can see the dangers of kind of putting on blinders due to desperation for those answers. So you know,

I think it's really interesting. I think, you know, some of the things he said can serve as a warning to some of you who are younger or who have not been in this field for as long to just be careful and you know, come to a piece that we don't know much right now. We haven't learned much. I think, you know, the luminaries in this field say this over and over again. We've learned very little, but we know there's a phenomena. I'm happy with journaling this phenomena, watching it.

I think it's interesting. I think the way people react and what people have to say about it is interesting. But it's a phenomena that's been around for a long time. It's probably a phenomena that will be around for a long time. And regardless of who's visiting, when, what, or where or if. You know, we still have our lives to leave, and we still have a world that we need to take care of that we're not doing such a good job with these days. Anyhow. Thank you again so

much to Jane. Check him out on the paracast with our good friend Chris O'Brien who we've had on a few times. And you know, Jean brought up Micah Hanks, And I want to thank Micah Hanks who did have me on his show, The Gralian Report not too long ago. It's on the kg R A network. And who else did you bring up? He brought up another one of our buddies, what Kirk Collins. We had him on

not too long ago. So check out the Jim Moseley website and go listen to the Jim Moseley interview that I did many years ago, because unfortunately Jim Moseley has asked away and he's such an interesting fella, really funny, interesting guy. But I also want to thank Micah Hank's brother, Caleb Hanks, because that's the guy who does the music for the opening and close of this

show. Caleb Hanks has a site called the Clerk Chronicles, and you can find a link to that site at the open Minds UFO radio show page at openminds dot tv. Micah and Caleb are actually both very talent musically talented. They play music and stuff like that. Really cool, really interesting and unique brothers there. They're also hilarious. They are super funny. If you ever get a hang out with them at a conference or something, there they're really

really funny guys, total total goofballs and I love it. But thank you to those guys, and also thank you to you the listeners. Be sure to check out open mind TV. Also check out Ufocongress dot com because we have a lot of these speakers listed for the conference and it's really exciting.

So we have like several PhDs. We have David Jacobs talking about alien abduction on one hand, and then we have a guy who is a professor in journalism, Joe Lewells, who's written a book and he's going to talk about alien abduction from a totally different point of view. We've got oh, this is a new thing that we posted. We have one of the former congress people that was at the citizens hearing for disclosure. So this is Congressman Cook.

He used to be in the House of Representatives representing Utah, one of the districts in Utah, and he's going to be talking about how he went to the citizen hearing as a skeptic. You know, they paid these guys to go listen to these UFO people. I can only imagine they're thinking, oh, great, well, they're paying me to sit here and listen to these bunch of goofballs, but he said, you know, a lot of

them were goofballs that he listened to. However, he felt that a lot of people he did listen to at the hearings were very credible and had some incredible things to say and completely changed his mind about the whole UFO phenomena. So he's going to be discussing that at the UFO Congress and probably be involved with a panel as well to discuss UFOs and the mainstream and stuff like that. So this is gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna have Nick

Redfern, We're gonna have a lot of cool people. You know who else did I put up? John Greenwald? Recently? I just mentioned we're gonna have Chris Rutkowski from Canada. We're gonna have a lot of cool stuff. So go to Ufocongress dot com and you'll be able to see the speakers again. Register soon. We're getting more registrations earlier than we've ever gotten before. Every year the conference gets bigger and bigger and we're out of room. I

think this year we're gonna really completely sell out. In fact, we did last year. We had to shove people in and we had to get seats, not that it was uncomfortable. We did get seats for everybody. There was a whole row of people standing in the back. In fact, if you go to our website to UFO Congress and scroll through the pictures in the front, you'll see a couple of years ago when David Hatcher Childress was speaking

and you see this packed room with people in the back. So it was even more full than that last year when we had George Knapp and Bob Lazarn some of the other speakers that we had. So we've got a lot of people there. It's a lot of fun. It's so fun to see. You also, go register for the Congress as soon as you can. That's February seventeenth to the twenty first at ufocongress dot com. A lot of cool

stuff going on. Also in a few weeks there will be the Travis Walton event, so you can go to our events page and see more about that. But our events pages where you'll see a lot of stuff in the UFO Congress page. Actually there's an ad right on the front page of Openminds dot tv to see that. We'll also have a new UFO Report out this week. We had one last week where we have an interview with one of the researchers of the Puerto Rico video, Richard Hoffman, who also is a state

director for MOFON and I think he's like runs the Star team. He's a big wig at MOFON. But he's also part of the investigative group, you know last week we had. Last time we have Morgan and Robert Powell from that group talking, so this is a different person. So we've got that up. And then this week we're gonna have a lot of triangle UFO stuff, like Martin and I were talking about at the beginning of the show, and so we're gonna have some of the pictures and videos up on our YouTube

UFO report on Friday. So lots of good stuff to check out at Openminds dot tv. Otherwise, we do have shows scheduled for the next few weeks. We've got him scheduled out, so no worries. We will have a show. So we will talk to you all soon. You have a wonderful week. Thank you so much for listening. Audio Smooth Tuckles your motionless sound. The glass tis suffering