Frank Kimbler, NEW Roswell Discovery

Host. Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Rojas. Open Minds Radio is the UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Hello, my friends, we are back. I hope you had a lot of fun on July fourth, which is actually Independence Day, that was our independence from the British. For some of you who don't know, because some people I'm sure are out there, No, Oh, it's spoiler Cracker Day, which is dependent stuff. Man,

it's today we like fight crackers. But actually if you look it up Wikipedia, you'll be able to discover that. How are you all doing. Welcome to Open Minds, your UFO news authority. This is Alejandro Rojas and we have a great show for you today, brand new breaking news actually today from Roswell. Antonio and I were in Roswell last weekend where they hold an annual festival. I think this one was the sixty first in honor of the crash

in Roswell, the alleged crash in nineteen forty seven. Would that at work out, that wouldn't be the sixty first then, but anyway, it happened some time ago and it was, of course a source of a lot of controversy people who have been talking about it for a long time. But surprisingly, just like we talked about with Tom Carry a couple of weeks ago,

there are new things happening all the time. And this is exciting because there's a gentleman who worked at the new works at the New Mexico Military Institute. He teaches high school level earth sciences and college level geology. He's interested in this subject and he took it upon himself to do his own research because he wanted to find a piece of the alleged crash UFO and he just might have done that, and he's in the process of proving it. So we're going

to talk to him about that. This is really exciting breaking news. Nobody else is really talking about this set or has talked to Frank, but luckily since we were out there, we got to meet him. He was part of the panel. You may have read our Roswell story where we talked about the panel of researchers and saw his picture up there. So we're going to

talk to him all about this and gets you some more information. So this is going to be a lot of fun otherwise, you know up and coming what tomorrow I hear our next magazine is supposed to hit this stance, and that's the Hollywood Invasion. Our esteemed colleague Jason McClellan, who does the UFO News updates every week as a guy, who wrote the cover story on the Invasion of Hollywood. My mom really liked it, by the way she read

that the other Dan. She thought it was great that Jason's a good writer, she said, so he's not too bad, So that's very exciting. You're going to be able to pick that up at the stands if you're not a subscriber yet, or like many of you do who are subscribers, you go to the stands and you buy five or six and give them to your friends and family. So we encourage that and thank you for that as well.

If you're in the Irvine, California area, or you just want to fly out to move on from July twenty ninth to thirty first, you'll also be able to meet some of us out there. You'll be able to meet Maureen Elsberry. She's famous on YouTube now for our UFO update videos, if you can go check her out there. Jason will also be there. Our editor in chief, Angela will be there, and so we'll be there to sign magazines and to you'll be able to take pictures with us. And you

know, because we're famous. I can even prove it. Yesterday, I'm gonna plug myself. I was out filming for a Travel Channel show on the paranormal. So hopefully that'll come out soon and that'll be fun and I'm not afraid to brag about it, because that was pretty cool. Anyway, Let's get to some of the exciting staff that we cover at Openminds dot tv on a daily basis, and that is UOPO News and the gentleman I mentioned before, Jason McClellan, it's here to tell us all about it. Hello mister

McClellan, Hello Alejandro, and greetings everyone. This is your Open Minds newsbury for Monday, July eleventh, twenty eleven. For those who can't figure that out, that would be seven eleven eleven. As you pointed out this morning, Allow, I was very excited about that seven eleven eleven. There's some kind of numerological conspiracy there. I wonder if seven eleven is doing any sort of special promo. Have you noticed they've been doing a lot of extraterrestrial theme

movie promos. They're doing Cowboys Alliens right now, and they did a big promotion for Super eight as well. The snurpee might be a back engineered technology. Wasn't now this is backmore in your era, Alejandro. But wasn't one of their slogans something like there's something afoot or something I don't remember something like that. Maybe I'm just thinking of Bill and Ted's excellent adventure. I think so excellent. Well, let's get into the news, Alejandro. We'll start

with sort of a peculiar story. The US government filed suit against Apollo astronaut doctor Edgar Mitchell on Wednesday, July or June twenty ninth in Miami federal court in attempts to reclaim a sixteen millimeters data acquisition camera that we used during the nineteen seventy one Apollo fourteen lunar mission. According to The Washington Post, the

lawsuit contends Mitchell recently tried to sell the camera at an auction. The movie camera from the lunar surface was reportedly going to be auctioned off by the British auction house Bonhams as part of a Space History sale in May with a pre sale estimate of six to eight thousand dollars, but Bombs pulled the camera from

the auction when they learned about the lawsuit. As Discovery News explains, the suit points out that all equipment and property used during NASA operations remains the property of NASA unless explicitly released or transferred to another party, and that NASA had

no knowledge of Mitchell being given the camera. While NASA asserts ownership of the camera in question, Mitchell's attorney, Donald Jacobson contends objects from the lunar trip to the Moon were ultimately mounted and then presented to the astronauts as a gift

after they helped NASA on a mission. Jacobson also stated that NASA approved the transferring of ownership of the camera to Mitchell forty years ago, So it's kind of strange that they would wait forty years to bring this lawsuit to get their camera back, And some contend that maybe they didn't realize it was gone until now they just started going through there they lost lis Apollo film, so it's possible. They're very bad with records. They're very bad with their inventory tracking.

Do you see a conspiracy here. No, I don't see a conspiracy, but many people do. Yeah, well he did. They were seemingly upset about his you know, recent criticisms about NASA holding stuff back correct, And of course Edgar Mitchell has been outspoken about his belief in extraterrestrials. So that's something else that fuels some of the conspiracy thoughts right now that maybe NASA's coming to get this camera because it might contain some incriminating evidence or something.

But that would make more sense it was a camera from today, a digital camera that has a card in it or something. But this is an old sixteen millimeter film camera, alien second side of it forty years ago. If there were footage on it, I'm sure if you've got it already. Yeah, if there's any conspiracy, maybe just give them a hard time because he gave them a hard time. Kind of say you're not our friend anymore because

you're being a jerk or something. But then another theory that's been put forward is that NASA needs money, and I'm sure it cut their attention when Hey, this piece of junk cameras to fetch eighty grand. We want that eighty grand. Yeah, we can build another rover tire with that. Yeah, it's not too far off, my friend. Yeah, that as it is. Let's talk about crop circles. We have another crop circle to talk about. It was a crop circle that appeared in a wheat field two weeks ago.

And this is sort of a hometown crop circle for Oslahandra because it's here in the US of A not an English crop circle, crop circle, USA. That's right. So this one was in Beardstown, Illinois, And I like that name. I wonder if people there have beards, lots of beards in Beardstown, Illinois, I would grow a beard. That's a fantastic name. I would too. You'd feel you're not doing your job if you don't have a beard. And Beard's town people probably look at you, bunny,

like you know, you're disloyal. You ain't got a beard, get out. Yeah. But this circle was forty nine feet in diameter and was initially discovered by the fields farmer who was driving around in this tractor and looked over and saw it, and he kind of he didn't believe it, and pulled out his cell phone camera took a picture of it, and he went over and actually investigated. He was looking around. He trace his footprints or anything,

and didn't see anything. And then the BLT research team, which Nancy Talbot is a part of. We've had her on the show many times. They apparently came out and visited the field to examine the circle, but their results are still pending and the farmer has since plowed as crop, but the circle is still visible, as happens with crop circles, you can still sort of see it. And apparently this isn't the only strange thing that's happened in

this field. Other strange things have happened before, such as I guess I've seen these before, you don't hear too much about it, but conjoined watermelons, cantalopes, and pumpkins all three probably not all three together, but like Siamese watermelons, like two together. And even another crop circle was seen there

years ago in the same field. And really yeah, So while the farmer was initially intrigued by the crop circle, he said, if another one appears, he's going to immediately applow it because as a result of this recent circle, he's been completely inundated with calls from UFO and crop circle organizations on the circle. So he says the calls have just come in day and night NonStop. Oh no, he's overwhelmed and wants nothing to do with crop circle.

Oh that's too bad. So it feels like, you know, we hear about that a lot with the with the farmers in England because they deal with it a lot. Yeah, but this guy was kind of intrigued by it,

but it was soured pretty quickly because just overwhelmed with people. Hopefully that's the type of person where you got to make a friends with and say, well, you know, if I understand your problems, just get a hold of me and on that, and hopefully BLT will make a good relationship with him and he'll trust them because at least they spend time to do something. I really I really admire the at least how how responsive he was to people

wanting to research it a little bit. You know, he certainly welcomes BLT there and also of the local reporters I guess was able. He invited them out to the field to see the circle and do a report on it. So it was a simple circle, right, absolutely, Yeah, how interesting. I mean, I'm excited to hear what BLT finds and I'm sure they

have some initial thoughts. So the preliminary results I saw. The only things that have been released from BLT was that when they got there they saw signs that could have been animal tracks, a few animal tracks in the area, but that's it. So yeah, it looks like a very clean, nice circle. Right. Wow. Well, let's talk about something we have been talking about a lot lately because it's been in the news a lot lately lately,

and that is a radio telescopes. Astronomers in Australia hope that Western Australia will be selected as the home of the world's most powerful radio telescope. According to the International Business Times, Australia is in competition with nine African countries, including South Africa, that have made it to a short list of nominees to

become the home of the Square Kilometer Array or Sky radio telescope. The Sydney Morning Herald reports that Australia is considered to be the best location for the Scott telescope, but politics could influence the decision. Professor Fred Wilson, astronomer in charge of the Australian Astronomical Observatory in New South Wales, is a major proponent

of building the Scott Radio Telescope telescope in Australia. The Sydney Morning Herald quotes Swatson is saying the SCOT will be by far the most sensitive telescope ever built. It will have the potential to reveal all kinds of things, ranging from the possibility of picking up signals from aliens if they exist. The Scout radio telescope will also be used to explore dark matter and to explore the origins of the universe. A group of international scientists is expected to make the final decision

in twenty twelve. Construction will then begin in twenty sixteen, leading to a projected operational date of twenty twenty four. That's so long ways away. Yeah, and again we talked about it last or two weeks ago. I guess we were off last week. But these radio telescops take a lot of money to operate. Yeah, big time bucks. So here's yet another one, and it will be the most sensitive, so most powerful. So we wish them well. And there again many other people picking up the slack for SETI,

who was experiencing their own financial problems. And I noticed that the Russian scientists are getting a little more news too. We wrote about them and them talking about SETI, and many actually sending messages, which is controversial because people think, god, oh the aliens will come get us and if we send

them messages. But yeah, there's a lot there's it's interesting. There's definitely a lot of talk going on and people in other countries at least moving forward on possible SETI solutions and SETI interesting enough too, is being a universal term, not just here it's one organization but correct. But you know, being in the in the US, we hear a lot about out SETI, the US based SETI, But it's interesting to hear just how you know, these

radio telescopes, these big telescope arrays are global. They're in various countries all over the world. Pretty soon everyone will have them. By twenty twenty four, they'll probably be able to make like a radio telescope hat that is wirelessly communicates with each other, and so we'll all be wearing these hat and it'll be like one gigantic, ginormous radio telescope. That's my idea. People freak out now about their cell phone's causing radiation, What do you think they're going

to freak out about with a big, big, don't mind. We still use the radio for like, I don't care radiate my head. I need my text messages. You're true. Yeah, you're exactly right. I keep my phone with me all the time. Yeah. Whatever, I'll take it. Let's talk about this, Alejandro. More fireballs now, I'm fascinated by these. We hear a lot of stories about fireball UFOs. Aren't you fascinated by fi? I am lately, especially with the Yeah, some of these

are crazy. And there was a fireball UFO seen in the sky above Guernavaca, Mexico, on Wednesday, June twenty ninth, and one witness captured the flaming object on video from the side of the road. The Epic Times described the object in the video as looking like a meteorite dropping from the sky, with a bright, pinkish orb at the bottom, trailed by two long, glowing orange tails, but The Telegraph points out that people who have viewed the

video speculate the object could simply have been a meteor or space junk. However, the slow movement and trajectory of the object in this video presents the possibility that the UFO was actually an airplane and the glowing orange tails were simply the sun reflecting off the condensation trails from the plane. An aerial object's trajectory can be difficult to determine, and optical illusions have certainly thrown people off before.

If you remember the mystery missile off the coast of California that was caught on video back in November twenty ten, and that would appear to be a missile blasting through the California sky was simply an airplane. No, because of the angle of the video camera and the plane's long vapor trail, the object appeared quite missile like in the video. Well, the object observed last Wednesday above

gueninavaka meh Coo may have been an airplane. No official identification has been made, but as the Epic Time points out, fireball UFOs are witnessed in countries all over the world, and we've reported that certainly in recent weeks, and in fact today, well it was last week there was another fireball UFO scene in Georgia and it looked identical to this one, the same sort of like winged pattern with the right. That's what's incredible about these, They seem to

be almost like it's very strange. It's like a. It's maybe a circular thing with two tails, one on each side, the left and the right. I mean, and we've seen several of these. In one of the videos, it seems clear that the object changes its trajector. That is correct. I think these videos are really weird. I mean, we haven't seen these before. All of a sudden, there's a string of them. I

mean on a regular basis. If they were just jets, you'd think people would record this sort of thing on a regular basis, but it seems far and few between. With the Mexico one, I believe it was suggested that it could possibly be some sort of supersonic jet or something, and you can see that with it has a weird distinctive wing pattern, and to me the wings almost almost look like the Virgin Galactic plane. How they're yeah weird, but yeah, no idea what they are. And like you said, some

of them go straight and some change their direction. That's entirely possible some secret space plane or something going on. That's what I think is interesting about that missile out of LA because that now they're saying could possibly be a plane, but a lot of experts were saying back then it is a missile, and I was curious and I looked into this and a little bit about you know, the space plane that the air worse, the secret space plane unmanned that

they've been flying around. They call it secret even though they told the public about it, but they're still secret about what it does. Where the heck

did they launch that thing? And what if people when people see the missile launch and I guess in California and southern California they do launch missiles kind of underregular that's where they launch their secret payloads out of so and of course, just like they were with the unmanned space plane, they're unclear, or they don't come forth with the information, or they leave information out, or they just straight out lie. So who knows what Those things can be very interesting.

Yeah, you're right, there's a lot of unknowns up there that are bull from here or not from here. So you know what I think it's cool too, is that the Epic Times has been picking up a lot of UFOs. They were in health and they ran your video that's gotten nearly two hundred hits on YouTube, right, And then the next one was these orb things, these fireballs, which they've been running stories on for the last couple

they have been focusing more on things like this. Yeah, it's interesting, pretty cool, good job, epic times, epic times, rocks all right, and one more, one more story we'll do hear about something from our home base of Phoenix. The first monsoon storm of the year slammed Phoenix last Tuesday evening. I'm sure many of you heard about this and saw the crazy pictures and videos online of the storm arriving in the form of an ominous haboob.

And for those of you not for what they don't know, Alejandro is called a haboob. A haboob is a massive wall of dirt. And I must correct media around the world because and even some some not so far away media organizations keep referring to the storm as the sandstorm. And this is Arizona. We don't I don't have sand dirt, Yeah, the big dirt dirt.

Where we're not the Middle East. We have dust storms, just big dirt storms, disgusting, But we had one last Tuesday evening and a video of the impressive haboob's approach was shot by a camera on a helicopter belonging to local ABC News affiliate KNXV and This video quickly gained international attention when CNN posted the video to their website and two lights in the video are visible, both

appearing very close to the mammoth wall of dirt. One of these UFOs simply hovers while the other moves through the sky and eventually flies over to the KNXV helicopter. Some viewers began to speculate that these UFOs were extraterrestrial in origin, and various people were putting up videos on YouTube showing the CNN video and adding their own commentary and pausing the video and saying, see it looks like a

saucer. It's a UFO. But the identity of the mysterious moving light soon became apparent when the Phoenix Fox affiliate KSAZ aired a story about a Southwest Airlines plane that was making its final approach to Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport as the haboub was rolling in. According to KSAZ, the plane couldn't land on its first approach and for some reason had to turn around and land to the west

just before the cloud covered Sky Harbor. As for the identity of the stationary object in the sky, it was most likely another news helicopter and quite possibly it was the news helicopter that captured video footage who was published by Russia today showing an alternate angle of the Southwest Airlines plane as it was coming in. So I think we identified them. It's kind of interesting watching them in the video and you see different angles. You can't really tell for a while.

It looks like the Southwest airplane isn't moving, but it's just the angle it's coming in. And an interesting tidbit here. My mother in law was on that flight. Oh you're kiddings? You want? Oh that was the south Line. Amazing view, Holy cat. Yeah. The pilot was kind of freaked out too. He said he'd never seen anything like it, and they just watched it was rolling in and wow, pretty cool. Yeah, and thanks to ABCS fifteen for referring to your story on that. Absolutely. Yeah.

And the ominous Haboob Haboo. I like that name, the ominous haboom ominous Haboob. It's fun to say a name or something. And I'm for those of you who have never heard of a huboo, I'm glad we could educate you today. We try to provide some education with our show wallet what it's all about dirt. Yes, disgusting wall of dirt. All right, Well, that is it for the news, Alejandro. Remember to check out these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news.

I'm Jason McLellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to you, mister Alejandro. All right, thank you, Jason, And if you want to see more hoboob action you see go on my Facebook. I had a couple of pictures because I drove into that wall. It was funny. My mom gave me a call and said, there's a big storm company you should wait it out, and I'm like, oh, way, man, I want to drive through that sucker. I've been waiting for

a hoboob to come around. Although I didn't know the term hoboo either until the next day. I thought it was a big dirt storm. So very exciting stuff around here in Phoenix. And some of the other stories I want to tell you about that you can see on our website recently. Of course, we talked about the fireballs. But Antonio found a really interesting Vietnam UFO story. And this is cool because it was discovered by the National Archives. It was in the logs of one of the bases out there in Vietnam,

just talking about a UFO siding people had seen. And this gentleman who wrote the blog about it with the National Archives who found it was kind of did his own analysis and said, you know, we can't figure out what this thing is. It seems to be a real genuine UFO. So that was really cool. So you're going to have to check that out on the site.

Also, we have other stories such as I mentioned the Roswell story a little bit where this is kind of exciting because really this is the first time these four main researchers have gotten together, and that's Kevin Randall, Tom Carey, Don Schmidt, and Stanton Friedman. They haven't all been together in one place ever, I don't think, at least to do a panel, and I know some of them haven't been together for a long time, and so

it was great to have them together on this panel here in Roswell. And I was able to get some pictures of that along with Julie Schuster who runs the Roswell UFO Museum, the famous Roswell UFO Museum, so you can see

some pictures of that. And it was really at the end of this press conference that Frank Kimbler came up to speak and he talked about some medals that he discovered, and he told the very interesting story about how he discovered the medals and the analysis he has done, and for the first time on air. You all are lucky enough to hear this story from Frank himself. In fact, let us go ahead and get mister Kimbler online and talk to him

directly. I am very happy to have mister Frank Kimbler on the phone. Frank, are you there. I'm I'm here. Hello, how are you I I'm doing wonderful here in sunny, hot Roswell, New Mexico. Yeah, I bet you. You're probably rivaling ACT. I think we're at one o seven today. What about you? It's it's over one hundred today and the humidity is up really high. With you. Oh really? Yeah really? All you want to do is kind of stay inside and stay cool.

Yep, thank goodness for ac Absolutely so. You've been, though, spending some time out in the desert in this Roswell project looking for Stuf. And I guess my first question that started at the beginning is how did you get interested in investigating the Roswell case. Yeah, I was. I was kind of fascinated by it. I'd always been fascinated by UFOs. I actually saw one when I was probably I think it was about twenty two years old,

I guess. I was camping out at Tucumcarry and it was late at night, and I was camping out with a friend of mine and he said, hey, you know, look up in the sky. And I looked up there and I says, oh, it's just a satellite, and he says, no, watch what it does. And I looked at it for a second or two more in a thing zigzagged back and forth and disappeared, and I'm going, oh, well, maybe I had one too many beers,

and I said, hey, I'm done. After that. I'm going, well, you know that's a UFO, and I've been interested in it now when I moved out out to when I moved to Roswell, I didn't even visit the UFO museum very much. I mean at all. I didn't didn't go there. And then after I see for about six months because there was so much UH Roswell such is buried so much in the mystique of of the uh of the Roswell incident. I decided to read a bunch of books,

look at all the documentaries, talk to as many people. I ran into some some relatives of eyewitnesses and stuff, and I says, there's really something to this. Then I said, you know, why don't I put my uh my scientific expertise to work on this and see if I can maybe help solve maybe find some physical evidence. I mean, that's that's what I basically went out to look for. So, uh that's essentially how I got started with it. I I wanted to. I wanted to. I want to

find something. I basically wanted to get some kind of proof, which was what was missing. And uh So, like I said, I read all the books and read all the documentaries and then formulated a plan and and uh got pretty frustrated after a while looking for things. But it seems it seems to have panned out. Now, your colleagues and your students at the New Mexico Military Institute, do they know of your interests. There's only a very that there's there's very few of them. I I don't talk about the UFO

stuff very much where I work, hardly at all. There's there's a few people that that know of my interest in it, they talk to me about it, but usually not not much, and certainly not during during working hours, usually at lunchtime or something. They might if they've asked me a little bit. The students, I I don't involve them with it at all. Uh. I've had maybe one or two asked me some things that kind of

came out, maybe during a study hall or something like that. But I usually I usually keep keep my research, the UFO research, away from my my work at at the New Mexico Military Institute. Well, I know when we're doing some of the festivals out there, and I was involved with organizing a few of them in the past few years that the Military Institute let us use their hall. They're a big, great leader. Oh yeah, they

just redid that. The place is huge. Yeah, it's beautiful. We did some of our presentations there and some of the people from the Institute would come and I don't remember who, you'd probably know who. And then maybe at autam and you know, hey, you're a UFO person, so my niked talk. But I would if this are the maybe administrators that you work with that know about this pretty open to it. Oh you know, it's all part of Roswell. They the people that work there, they know about

the Roswell incident. And as a matter of fact, I saw I saw the son of the of some of our leadership basically at the opening for the for this Roswell festival that was downtown at the UFO Museum. I was quite surprised to see him there. His son is very much interested in the UFO phenomena. So cool. So your discovery started when, if I'm correct, you looked at some satellite images and were these images kind of of the general area where the the like the Sci Fi group did the dig where Ye?

Absolutely what I did was actually used the Sci Fi group the what was it the it was the dig, Yeah, the Roswell Diggs. I used that kind of back engineered datl that. I looked at the science behind that, and I'm going, well, they can find big stuff, but they're not looking for the little stuff. But what I did was soon as I saw that, I'm going, you know what, I need to take a look at some satellite imagery. I'm pretty good with what's called multi spectral. So

I pulled down some landset satellite imagery. I pulled down another satellite is called ASTOR. And then I also looked at some of the old like nineteen fifty four aerial photographs as well. And what I did was I manipulated the satellite

imagery to enhance infrared and show areas where the ground was disturbed. And I was really quite surprised when I got the when I showed up on my computer screen, because the area that people talk to the witnesses talked about three quarters of a mile long, several hundred several hundred yards wide as a debris field, and this area that shows up, this disturbed area is right smack dab over the top in exactly the same direction that every that the witnesses have talked

about. So I got pretty excited about that when I saw that, And you said it even had kind of a hardhead. It looked artificial. Yeah, the edges of it are perfectly, absolutely perfectly straight. It looks almost like a perfect rectangle, kind of squared off a little bit on the edges. And usually when you look at things like that, you do get some squared off edges in nature, but you don't get a whole bunch of right angles. They just don't show up like that. And this. This looked

like it was artificial. This looked like somebody had either gone out there and burned it. Matter of fact, it looked a lot like a burn area, is what it looks like. Maybe from the late nineties, early two thousand, somewhere around there. Made it might have even been before that. But like I said, it seemed to it matches up. The area matches up perfect with the description of the witnesses. But it does look as if it is artificial, is what it looks like to me. Now, do

you think the area was burned? You said it kind of. I think you even called it a scorch mark before it. Yeah, it's it was burned. Matter of fact. I've made several trips out to the out to the debris field, and there's there's lots of charcoal around from it. In in the area has been burned off, and it looks like it's been burned,

probably and maybe a controlled burn. I guess that's the idea that I was the idea that I was looking to put across, as it looks like it was burned off because it stops at the road, it goes over to the edges of fence lines and it just stops and it makes perfect like I said, makes almost perfect straight lines rectangles is what it does. Do you know, do you have any idea why someone would do a controlled burned there?

No, I don't. Uh. You know, there's all kinds of conspiracy things you can weave around this, because if there's any kind of small bits of metal, foil or anything that's that's caught up in the in the yucca plants or whatever, there's a possibility that if you burn something, you might be able to either it or melted, one of the two change its

properties. There's all kinds of things that that kind of go through my mind when I think about this, because of burning off an area makes it easier to find things, but it also makes it It also changes the properties of metals because the metals get get hot, it changes the temper on the metals. There's all kinds of things that have gone through my mind in reference to that particular scorch mark. Mm hmm, so who knows? So then I guess you go out there, and did you go by yourself? Now?

Actually I took my son with me on several occasions. Several occasions I've been out there by myself since it's such a remote area, you certainly don't want to be out in that location by yourself to get maake bed or hurt or whatever theirs. It's a long way to the nearest ranch house. And actually what time period was, It's about how long ago was it when you first went out there to visit the site. The first trip that I made was

May of twenty ten. That's when I first went out there. And actually the first trip that I made out there was kind of a general walk around for six or seven hours. Doctor of my son crazy. He says, how can you look for how can you walk around in the desert for six or seven hours? And I says, well, think about if we were to find a piece of debris from an alien spacecraft. And that's what I

told my son. I said, this would be a history making event if and I took a lot of notes, made a lot of and then it was the second trip that I made out there, which was about three days later, that actually I took a metal detector out use some of my used a little geology, a little bit of little physics, a little hydrology, a little bit of everything to try to plot and plan where small pieces would would have ended up. That's what I was looking for. And what did

you start to find? Well, now, after I ran that metal detector that I have. Now, the metal detector that I've got can actually find metallic pieces as small as vbi's down to a depth of three inches. I was lucky because the ground was a damp. It makes for a really good metal detecting, so it had rained a few days before, and so I didn't find much. After that. I was getting real frustrated because the area is very clean. I was out there for probably three four, maybe five

hours swinging the metal dettector. Found a couple of little pieces of metal ten Actually it was rusty, some rusty nails and things like that, but very few. And then in an ant hill, I got a ping that didn't sound like iron, because you can tell the difference in the metal detector, and I got pretty excited. And when I dug it up, it was down about a half inch three quarters of an inch deep, and I held

this silvery aluminum metallic object in my hand. It was just I was probably eight or ten millimeters long by maybe four or five millimeters wide, and I'm holding my kind of staring at it. I'm going, oh my gosh, this it looks it looks like it looked to me like the descriptions of the material looked like shiny aluminum is what it looks like. And I'm going,

well, this is pretty exciting. And that was the first discovery, and then subsequent trips that I made out there made some additional ones as well. And I mean chunks of aluminum, those are not I mean, you don't find chunks of aluminium in nature, right, Is that correct? No, you don't. It's either got to be associated with with with trash or whatever.

But there there's no trash out there. I've walked around quite a bit and I haven't found anything even remotely resembles trash, except for a few little pieces of tin that probably came old rusty ten that came from whatever, maybe an old ranch building or something, I have no idea, but even that was few and far between, and in a couple of little nails. But as far as like stuff that's an aluminum alloy, there is nothing that even

comes close to that. But it doesn't. The stuff doesn't look like trash. It's it's the material that I've the metallic debris that I've picked up from out there is very small, and it looks like a shredded even looks like it's been melted on the edges. Some of it even looks like it's been through some stress. Maybe maybe an explosion. I don't know. M hm. And just and for my knowledge too, just to understand aluminum a little

better. I mean, of course, you know, other metals we do find, like gold, for instance, you can find a gold nugget. Yeah, but some metals I guess you just you won't find nuggets or or that metal existing in a in a large piece. Is that correct? Or that that was correct? You know, there's some natural elements that are out

there, native elements they call them, that we can find. We can find gold in its raw form, we can find native native silver in its raw form, and we can find native copper in its in its raw form. But things like aluminum that does not occur in nature, we don't find raw aluminum. Aluminium is something that has to be manufactured, and that's the only way that we're going to find a piece of it is if somebody or

something leaves a piece of it behind somewhere. Uh huh. So that's kind of exciting because I mean like you said, others than you know, mingled among trash. I you know, how would you find just aluminum pieces, I guess unless maybe something made of aluminum, which I guess we don't have much it's made completely of aluminum that would somehow have broken up in the area. Well, you know things like aluminum cans. You know, people shoot

aluminum cans with guns. But even when they're shot with a shotgun and shot multiple times with the gun, aluminum usually does not shred up like confetti. What it does is as a tendency, it'll hold together and kind of bend. And this material that I have found out there is they are tiny little pieces that are probably no more than a most of them are less than a quarter of an inch across. They are ripped and torn and shredded like like like paper, like confetti. This is what they are. And so you

got interested in your finding and what did you do with those pieces? Well, the very first thing I did was a contact at the International UFO Museum, and I introduced myself, told them where I worked and what I did, and I was invited down to the museum and I met with the director there, Julie Schuster. I think that's her name. And I shouldn't say should that's her name? That is her name. So anyway, she'll be embarrassed if she if she hears that, just say, oh, Frank,

can you remember my name? So I went down there and I showed her. She made arrangements and it was just by sheer luck that Don Schmidt and Jack Rodden was met me down there and they had a very close look at this piece of metal and they said, you know what you know, let's let's get this analyzed. And the museum actually paid for the very first analysis that was done, and it was done at New Mexico Tech over in Sacora.

Was done via microprobe and they analyzed it five times and it came out to be in an aluminum silicon, magnesium, manganese copper alloy is what it came out to be. And it was a It's an alloy that's normally not found as a as like foil form. It's usually used in construction, like to build bridges. And I got kind of excited about this, but I knew that I needed to get some more work done on it. So I

took the I took the fragment. Actually, what I wanted to do is gets an isotope analysis done on it right away, because it didn't it didn't look or have the chemistry like something you would expect to find out like normal trash. It was. It was a little different. So I went up to the University of New Mexico to their Institute of Meteoritics, and I tried to get their isotope person to take a look at it, and he's and I said, hey, I want to get some specific isotopes done on this.

And the gentleman said, the only reason why you want those isotopes done is because you suspect this materials from outer space, is what he said. And he didn't know where. I didn't even say that the stuff came from Roswell. And then he came then basically says, why didn't you tell me where it's from? And I says, well, it's from the Roswell to Breefield and he says, no, I'm not going to look at this.

This is a bunch of hohoy. Another one of the scientists that was in the office with me, he says, but what if it is, And he just says, oh, I'm not going to do this. So walking down the hallway. This other scientists said he was the manager of their microprobe facility at University of New Mexico. He said, I can't get you isotopes, but I can get you some really good numbers to help verify what you

have from New Mexico Tech. So I said, that's good. So the next day we ran those and it came out pretty well at dead on match for what was done at New Mexico Tech, that it was in fact an aluminum silicon magnesium manganese copper alloy, and back to square one needed to get some more isotope work done on it. And now this guy, this guy you went to who denied you. I mean, was he abrace it right from the beginning or was he kind of he was, No, not really

he was. He just kind of looked me square in the eye. And he didn't he didn't say, I don't want to mention his name, of course, he just looked me square in the eye. And he basically said that you have to believe that this his exact words where he says, this is a bunch of whoy don't you think it's a little far fetched? And he says, I'm not going to do this, and I mean that was about as blunt as anyone could possibly get. He didn't want to do it.

Matter of fact, that seems to be when dealing with like universities or trying to deal with the universities are trying to deal with some research people that are out there. And I hate to say this, as soon as you mentioned the word UFO, they almost inadvertently shut down. You know. They they are afraid that maybe they're they're going to get laughed at, maybe they're

tenures in trouble or something. I have no idea, but a lot of the I would have to say most of the universities won't even touch stuff like this with a ten foot poll if they know that it might be associated with the UFO. But like his assistance said, yeah, what if it's real. I mean, it's what if? And that is the main thing, and that's the reason why he ran He actually I was with him when he ran all the testing. I watched him calibrate the the equipment. I watched

watched everything because I'm familiar with with the process and how it works. And he spent probably three or four hours working on this thing and getting some really good, really tight numbers that they basically help to confirm that we had an unusual metal from from the debris field and it needed some more work done on it. Mm hmm. So what was his reaction then? He was definitely he must have been interested. He must have found your original results from New

Mexico Tech interesting. Huh. You know, I I got that general idea. You know, that's that's part of science. Part of science is to have curiosity. And that's one of the things that a lot of that that we might lack today is that that drive and that curiosity the search for the unknown. But the gentleman that did the work for me was genuinely curious and he was excited to work on the material and too and to look at it and it was it was good. I mean, I have to applaud him.

The scientists that did the work for me at the University of New Mexico has worked on the Mars meteorites, he does stuff for NASA. And you know what I would I would consider him at the at the tops of my list as a as a really good research scientist. Great. So, yeah, you must have been pretty happy to get his help. Oh, absolutely, absolutely, Well, that's cool. At least somebody listened to you. Yeah. So yeah, moving on to your next step, you said next

you needed to get some isotopic work done. Yeah, I needed to get some isotope work done. There was a little step in between that had to do with a big low aerospace. I drove. Yeah, I drove over to thanks to one of the move On investigators, Chuck Zakowski. It was really very nice nice to me last year when I met him at the at the UFO convention last year. Yeah, he is. He is an awesome guy, and he's a he's a good he does good investigation for moufon and

uh. He he said that he knew he knew the Bigelow folk, and that knew that he knew a contact at Bigeloid put me in touch with them. Uh. It took many, many months to make the arrangements. It's Uh, there's a group called earth Tech out of Austin, Texas. It's run by Howel put Off and so he's he's pretty famous in his own right for his work on a lot of paranormal things and and some physics of space

travel and gravity. Gravity gravity work is what he does. Anyway, I drove over there after arrangements were made to the Earth Tech Lab there there microprobe did not not microprobe, but their electron microscope was not working. They didn't have a microscope. All they had was what's called an air app X ray fluorescence unit that can't measure anything less than silicon. For so, it couldn't measure aluminum very well, can't measure silicon, can't measure a few other elements.

But they did take a look at it. And when they looked at it with their equipment that they had, they basically said, well, this is this is unusual material and we want to have we want to have some isotope work done on it. And I says, well that's good. So they started making telephone calls and sending out emails and stuff. And then what

happened was I did not leave any of the specimens with them. I brought the I brought all of it back, and I says, well, give me a call and let me know if you want me to come back and win, and I'll just drive over and bring it and we'll have it analyzed any any place doesn't make any difference. So a day, a couple of days went by and Bigelow basically said, or the big Low Aerospace people basically said, well, you know what, we're still working on this. That's

going to be a week or two before we get it back. And I'm going okay, Well weeks turned into months, and finally they sent me a little report back and this is what they said. No further research will be done on this, and they didn't send me any data, any hard data. They just said, well, it looks like plain ordinary iluminum can to us, and they didn't send me any information on it. And I'm going, well that's I called them up and I said, well, that's not

what you said when we were there. You said you were going to do some isotope work on it. Now apparently they changed their mind. I had to bug them consistently to get the data. So they sent me the hard data from their equipment and they ran two analysis The one that had iron in it they did not send to me. They sent only the one that was the aluminum magnesium silicon alloy. And it took me about a week to decompile the data to see if it matched the stuff from the University of New Mexico,

which it did. And after that little scenario with the Bigelow folks. I contacted the museum again, UFO Museum. I said, we need to get isotopes done on this because Bigelow is not going to do it. A couple of questions too, Yes here, Yeah, it's unfortunate that they took so long, let alone, you know, not being very helpful. They took a real long time to get back to you. But it makes it sound then, And I guess one thing we should cover is that you've then

at one point had found much more than just the one piece. Yes, in fact, the number, the total number of pieces, and it comes from different areas. It's not all plumped together. It's scattered over a very over a fairly large areas the debris field. But there's like fourteen or fifteen pieces that have been found, okay, and they're all pretty small pieces. Huh, they are all very small pieces. Well, like I said, it looks like it looks like aluminum confetti, is what it looks like.

And you had a theory about that. I mean, your idea was that they would get the big pieces. It's the small pieces that they couldn't get that you decided to try to look for hued absolutely. You know what the technology that people have used out there. There's been a couple of archaeological digs. The archaeological digs, if I remember correctly, could not find anything less than with their electronics that they were using, anything less than an inch or

two across. They did dig a number of holes, and they were using screens that basically had a mash of a quarter of an inch, So basically the holes that were dug nineteen eighty nine, I think Kufos was out there, and then there was two thousand Sci Fi Channel and I think again or two thousand and two whatever. There was a couple of other archaeological type digs that were done out there, but they could not and basically find stuff that

was really really small. It would have to be stuff that was larger than a quarter of an inch across. And most of the fragments I have, or most of them, are smaller than a quarter of an inch a cross. So they might have helped you. They might have lifted through and got all the big stuff out of the way so you could get in there and

find these little pieces. Well it might be, except for the fact that I wasn't too near where the archaeological digs were I was several hundred feet away from that, basically kind of following my own little science leads about runoff and how the vegetation grows, and of course looking at ant hills and animal burrows, which is what I primarily focused on. Now, maybe you can explain why the finding these isotopic values is so important. The isotopes. The isotope

values are very much like our fingerprints. They the isotopes for elements. Certain concentrations of elements on Earth basically are unique specifically to Earth. And so what happens is if you know, basically, for instance, this alloy that I've got, which has some magnesium in it, you can check the magnesium isotopes and there's like three or four of them, four magnesium isotopes, and there's there's stable ones that are there, and it's magnesium twenty six, twenty five,

and twenty four, I think is what they are. Those are the those are the elements, and the ratios of those four Earth are always the same. You can you can grab a seashell and it'll have the exact same ratios as seawater, or you can go and grab a you know, another alloy of another piece of metal that has magnesium in it, and as ratios will always show up. But the interesting thing about it is if it's not

from Earth, it'll have a slightly different ratio. If you pull stuff from say like we've done, We've done some stuff I think from like the Mars meteorites, they have a slightly different ratio. And if you take a look at like chondrite meteorites, they also have a slightly different ratio because these things

are not from Earth. And then we have done some work astronomy. It's not exactly precise for measuring isotopes the spectru from other stars that are many light years away, but we've looked at the magnesium isotope ratios for stars that are many light years away, and many many of them are different from what our Sun has. So our solar system, our Earth is is kind of unique

when it comes to it's like a fingerprint. That's why these ratios are so important for determining whether something comes from Earth or whether it comes from another world. So I think I stopped you when you said you then went to the to the museum to see if they could help you get this done. Yes, I there's a there was a company out there which is an aerospace certified which is what I what you need to have is a certified laboratory. They're

aerospace certified. They are they have multiple certifications, which means that when they do their analytical work, it's really good. I contacted that company. They gave me a price. I went to the UFO Museum. I says, let's get this done. They said, fine, we'll pay for it. It only took them five days to get the data back. And I almost fell over when I when I saw the information and and and plotted up the ratios were off. They were not. And I got very excited about it.

When I looked at the magnesium isotope ratios. There's only two answers that you could have. Either the lab made an analytical error or the material is not from Earth. And those are those are the only two things that could possibly happen an aluminum being manufactured. It would Is there any incidence where you would have an aluminum created in an off planet in space somehow not by us? A right? And I mean that's that's following good scientific method protocols.

One set of data is not going to cut it. You know, I can say, hey, this stuff is not is not from Earth, but there could also be a mistake. So what needs to be done now for this particular piece of metal is that it needs to be sent off to another

lab, another certified lab and perhaps another one. So you need to get at least two more and you need to make sure that the information that you get back from them matches the information that you got from the lab that you already had to work done at. In other words, you need to have two or three, preferably three confirmations of the data that you already have showing this stuff is not from Earth in order to come forward and say this material

is not manufactured on Earth, it was manufactured someplace else. So right now, I mean things are looking pretty positive. I mean you have a lab that certified that you have this information from and really indicators are yeah manufactured by someone but not here. Yeah, now they wouldn't the lab. Of course, the lab would not say that they're only they're only providing information. But

the interpretation of the magnesium isotopes. Like I said, there's only two possibilities off world meaning not from Earth, or there is an error, which is why it needs to be verified by at least two more labs in order to make sure that that information is absolutely one hundred percent correct. It's just plain

good science. Yeah, so it's pretty exciting. I mean, I don't know that we've been in that situation for sure, not with roswell, where a piece of suspected roswell debris has been analyzed or done an isotopic anolyos well. I think according to some of the work that that some of the research that I did, the museum did some isotope work a on several pieces of material. One of them's on display in the music. They hadn't done it Los Alamos and it was proved to be from Earth. They have that report

over there at the in their research library. It was the there's a silver there's a copper silver alloy that's on display over there. It's really pretty. It's a kind of Japanese artwork stuff up and I'll have to I think it's called hakume Gane or something. It's really very pretty material that was analyzed because

it looks like it's from another world. And also I think during the fiftieth anniversary there was some silicon that was looked at that was called I think the specimen was called r R three, and it was some work that was done on that, and they actually made an announcement that their isotope values might have been are didn't say, Mike, their isotope values were from another world. But then what happened was that was only one analysis. They didn't have multiple

ones. And I think it was from what I've heard, a little bit of an embarrassment because it came out that that may not be from another world, it's probably from Earth, and it's probably silicon. And those are the kinds of things that I've actually run into because I've had another several researchers out there that basically have told me, they said, you know, Roswell has a lot of there's been some hoaxes out there. They also said that we've

been down this path before. And I says, well, that's why I need help from the researchers that are out there, because I want to follow the right path and do this the right way, and I don't want to make any mistakes. And I've had some pretty good help from a few people that have done this before. So are you on Do you have plans for

a second test? Yes? A second and a third those those are coming up here probably I bet within the next certainly within the next few weeks or so, we're going to be in We're going to get some more work done on this and see if we can get confirmation that this stuff is again from another world. I mean, I'm hopeful, And the only reason why I'm hopeful is that usually certified labs don't make like serious blunders on things. That's

because that's the reason why they're certified. Not saying that it can't happen. But I am really keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that the science will prove that this material is not from Earth. It'll be pretty exciting news. And I mean the material can't just have been I mean you can't, like or can you can you take aluminum from Earth go melt it in space and its isotopic values change. No, as far as I know, and I'm not

a metallurgist, I do not believe that. Besides that it would be incredible. Even if it could be done, somebody would have to have extremely deep pops and have Yeah, it would be not saying that people couldn't couldn't manufacture this material. It could be but it would be inexpensive in and uh and why would anybody want to make something that's that's that's fake, that looks like it's from another world and throw it all over the place it doesn't find it.

Yeah, and that's true. And this material has been buried for a long time. You can tell by the corrosion that's on the surface. You can tell by the rounded edges on it. When you look at the material, like I said, it appears as though it's been melted. It's been, it's undergone, it's been under a little bit of stress. Some fragments of the pieces are folded over, probably as many as it's really very thin. It's been folded over probably six times and smashed flat. So it's been

rolling around in the desert for a very very long time. I'm out there. Wow, well this is exciting. I'm really excited about this. You know, you obviously know what you're talking about. And and you did find something else, at least these buttons that were kind of interesting too, huh.

That was that was that was a startling find because I in my search for little bits of metal, I wasn't I mean, I had found like a little bit of piece of tan, and I found an old tobacco can that was way up on the ridge, and some pieces of milk glass that are probably from the nineteen forties or whatever laying around out there. But when I found an aluminum button, I'm going, holy smokes. And of course the first thing that popped into my head instantaneously was, oh, maybe these

are from an alien. I'm going, no, no, no, no, I can't be, no way, this is not going to be. But then that whole military thing popped into my head. As the military was out there, and I found not one, not two, but three aluminum buttons. One of them was buried almost three inches deep in hard packed clay, and I know for a fact that was really old, especially and buried that deep and hard packed clay. And I took lots of pictures of the of the buttons. I had the buttons sent out. I sent the pictures

basically all over the world, didn't tell anybody where they came from. I just said, hey, I need them identified, because they're reasonably playing playing

aluminum buttons. And two or three people came back and said they appeared to be late forties early fifties military trouser buttons or fatigue buttons, And then I didn't think too much of that until I gave a showed the picture to State moufon meeting here in New Mexico, and a gentleman came up to me afterwards and he says, those are fatigue buttons that we used in like he said,

the late early not late he said early early fifties. I think he said late forties, my late late forties, early fifties, And he says, those are the buttons that we wore on that we had on our fatigues. And I'm going, yeeha, just the kind of information that from a historical perspective to basically prove that the that the military was out there and they were actively looking for something. You know, military fatigue buttons just don't pop up in the middle of nowhere. Mm hmm. Wow. Yeah, some

great works. I mean, you know, it's kind of funny because the roswell thing has been around for so long and people think, well, you know, how much more can you guys do on this? But there are new exciting things that keep new developments that come around the corner every so often. You you are absolutely greaty. You know, it's a very large area

and there has never been some extensive archaeological work done out there. You know, there's been some holes, Doug. There's been some work done by the University of New Mexico, their Office of Contract Archeology with the Sci Fi Channel. But see, they only spend a few days out there. To really do this upright, somebody needs to sit down out there and spend the money

and the time. And I am almost I'm dead certain that if people would spend the time and the effort and the money, that Roswell would be proved up, and we'd have more than the smoking gun, we would have a proof positive that there was a crash there from an alien spacecraft. And I know that for a fact, kind of like your theory. I mean, if if something really happened there, it seems it would be nearly impossible to

clean it all up, So there must be something less. There is no way on this planet that any that that the military could have gotten at all that it was. It covered. It covered three quarters of three quarters of a square or half a square mile, if not more three quarters of a square mile, and there is no way on this planet that they could have picked up all the big pieces. Possibly, but You got to remember, there was a rainstorm that night that that crash happened, and that means that

there's stuff that was washed into the animal burrows. There was stuff that was carried down all the little washes, and there was several days before anybody came out there, or a day or two or whatever, and that just basically means that the animals could have pushed the stuff around there. The military would have had to have scraped probably two feet of soil off of a square mile

of land, and there's no way that they would have done that. So I am confident that there are still there is still there are still artifacts to be found in that area. It just takes a lot of persistent, a lot of absolute diligent hard work to find stuff, But I know it's there now. You also went out, and I think what you found was interesting and I had some questions around this too. You went out to the San Augustine site, which is possibly a second crashed crash site. People, Yes,

I did. I was. I was invited out to that site to basically because of my being able to use a metal detector very well, I was invited along in the hopes that maybe some material could be found out there that was related to some previous private archaeological work that was done at that particular crash site. When I got out there, I was I was kind of disheartened a little bit because the area is literally the town dump for the small town of Horse Springs. I mean literally it is the town dump. It

is Is it anattown dump or kind of an unofficial town dump. No, it is it. Well, let's put it this way. It's it's the old town dump, probably currently not being used, but it is definitely the old town dump. There. There is industrial trash out there, pieces of tractors of the sheet aluminum that's laying all over the place. There's a styrofoam

from buildings. There's old refrigerators. There's probably many thousands of beer cans laying around there, including the ones with the iron sides with the aluminum talks tops, which are pretty old. I've never I mean, it's incredible the amount of trash. And then I had them show me where the original archaeological dig was where they had dug up this this stuff that they that they are claiming as being from a UFO, And I'm going, well, this is only

five or ten feet from where there was massive amounts of trash. The trash is scattered everywhere. There's there's probably a quarter of a square a mile or maybe more of trash laying all over the place. And the science but there is no science behind it. It's basically people that get very excited every I picked up some pieces of aluminum pie plate and I walked over and I showed it to the team leaders that were out there, and I says, here's some aluminum and they said, oh my god, Frank, this is a

piece of the UFO. This is the same stuff that we dug up years ago. And I didn't say anything to them because I didn't want to really spoil their fun. I should have. I just basically said, in my mind, I'm going, guys, this is a piece of a chicken pot pie. And it was really kind of said. There was they found a piece of radiator core up on top of the hill and they said, my god, this is a piece of a UFO. And I'm going, oh gosh, guys, this is a radiator core. I mean, I do

my own car work. I know what a radiator corps looks like. But yet they were still claiming that it's a UFO. I mean, everything that they picked up out there, they were claiming was a UFO, and it's not true. It's most of it is just most of it, meaning that I think it's dump material, is what it is. Yeah, well, if they found that side interesting, if they came to, you know, the Phoenix trash dump, they'd probably be in hog Heaven. They probably would

because there was probably multiple UFOs that crashed there. Yeah well, and yeah, it would seem to be impossible to talk about finding a needle in a haystack. Holy moly. Yeah, I mean, and it would be it would be it. They could analyze that stuff from now until you would have to come up with millions and millions of dollars. If something crashed out there, which it very well, maybe it's going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack. It's not like the Roswell or not like the Corona

debris field. That place is pristine. There's nothing out there. This area is within sight of the little town of Horse Springs. You can actually see the buildings of Horse Springs. And that was one of the things that I had questioned, is if something did crash there in the nineteen forties, that little town was probably still there and the people would have seen it. Now, this is extremely highly speculative, this next suggestion, But just to ask

you, I mean, did that dump seem older than the crash? So is there any possibility that that that dump was put there after the crash to cover something up? You know? And that's actually a very good question. I found a bottle there from the nineteen forties which I brought back. It was an old blueing bottle from the Maybe, yeah, you know, there's a possibility to dump may have been there. There's from the looks of it,

it's in the bottom of a wash. The dump may have washed all that most of that material may have washed down from closer to the city itself. And the people that I was out there with even mentioned that there was that the military team out there and actually bulldoze the town dump to help cover up the area, according to Stanton Friedman. Stanton Friedman said that when he

was out there, there was no town dump. Mm hmm. So there is a distinct possibility that maybe they didn't want somebody to find anything and they really did push the material down there. I don't know, Yeah, be a perfect way to do it, That's for sure. It would be a you know, what better place to hide something than underneath the noses of the people. And you say that this is something that people do where at least sometimes the contaminator site, people will drop needles all over the place. Well,

nails. Yeah. One of the frustrating things I ran across was that there's a particular area at the at the Corona debris field, the old Brazzle Brazzle debris field, there's one particular area that is not too far from where they did the Sci Fi Channel dig. There's a there's a hillside and the entire hillside uh is scattered with nails. And the nails are the nails are not tremendously old, but they're they're old enough to be rusty. And I'm

being a being a nugget hunter going out looking for gold nuggets. That's actually one of the oldest tricks in the book. If you don't want somebody to find something, what you do is you take up a couple of pounds and nails and you throw it all over the ground and scattered, and then nobody it will mess up the metal detectors and you can forget about finding anything to be digging up nails from now to doomsday, right, so that does happen.

I just think it's kind of weird that the nails were kind of scattered around the hill in various places, and it just so happens that the nail the hill was in the perfect location to basically absorb some of the material from a crashed UFO. Absolutely interesting. So have you shown your findings that did the isotopic work to some of your colleagues or some other people in the field of geology and gotten some responses. I actually haven't showed any to other than

people that were not scientists. I have showed it to a few people. They haven't seen the isotope work that because I just had it done. Most of them were gone during the summer, so it was just done actually almost before school was out here. I send the isotope work off to a really good research scientist that has done work on trace evidence. The lady is I would have to put her tops in her field, and she calls it the way she sees it. If she thinks something is a hoax, she says

it's a hoax. And I sent her the data and she came back with the same thing. She said, it's either analytical error or the stuff is off world. And then she sent it to an associate of hers at a university, a scientist. We'll mention his name or hers, but he also came back, and I've got all these emails. I keep track of everything. He also came back and said, this is clearly off the chart and we need to do some more work on this. And that's exactly what those

people had said. So there have been some scientists that know what this stuff looks like. They've looked at it, and they basically came to the same conclusion that I did. It is either analytical error or the material is from Earth. Wow, that's pretty exciting. And have you shared this? I mean, have you done any other UFO radio shows or anything. No,

this is actually my first one. The only other thing that I've done is I gave a I gave a talk on this, of course, at the panel, a little short talk during the Roswell panel with Don Schmid, Tom Kerry, Stanton Friedman, and Kevin Randall, all of those researchers. I freely share this the data that I have with them. I'll share it with anybody that wants to see it. It's it's not a secret now anymore. We kept it a secret for a while. The UFO Museum knows about it.

Those folks have seen it. I've sent believe it or not. I have sent the data off to practically every single UFO investigator in group in the entire world. I don't think i've touched on Europe yet. They'll probably be mad at me, but if they want it, I'll send it to them as well. Anybody that wants to see it, pictures, data, whatever they want to see, I'll send it to them. Oh great, yeah, so this is really now. Do you have this stuff that looks like

you have a site atomic rocks dot com. No, I don't have enough on that site. Matter of fact, all of this happened relatively fast that it was within the probably the last two weeks. I bet that in talks with the museum that they kind of decided to kind of let it, maybe let it go a little bit and see if we can get some people to take a look at the material and such. What I will do is I will put the information up on the Internet so that people can see it along

with the pictures or if you want me to send you the pictures. I will send you the pictures. You can put them up whatever you want. Yeah, I think you've sent me. You gave me the pictures, so I think I have them, and what I'll do is I'll put them up on the site. So if you want the data, I will be more than delighted to send you the data as well. Okay, that would be great. I think I have some of the data. Ye, but I don't have the isotope graph. I have a picture of it that you showed

me. Well, I will send you the isotope graph and you can do that, and then then I would like to put together a nice little scientifically oriented site website so that people can grab this and look at it and then give their opinions on it, which would be you know, I've had people want to look at it, they want to see what this material looks like. And I've had some kind of mixed reviews about it, well not mixed reviews that the idea was, well I can look at this, but you'll

have to send me some pieces of it. Well, that's not going to happen. It goes where I go, or vice versa. Wherever it goes I go. So I can see the work that's done, and I'd rather have a certified lab look at the stuff as opposed to an individual certified lab or a university. Well, and a lot of people, especially researchers, are a little centical and you know, gun shy because you know, oh yeah, it's been so long people have searched. Then they've come across things

that might be interesting, they turn out to be nothing. So I think everybody always, you know, it gets to be a little careful. They do, they do, and being careful is just fine. But yeah, and that's what I want to do, is follow I want to follow the path of good science on this. Yeh. And right now the science is good, but we just need more data to back up what we already have. Right. So, have you gotten people warning you to be careful that

that the men in black are going to come get you? Holy smokes? You know, when I first started on this, I never heard so much. I've I had. I have met some of the smartest people that I've run across, and I've met some that are kind of out there, and I guess we could call them special people. They're really special. I've heard things like people are going to try to kill you. I've heard people say that I hope all of your stuff is under lock and key, because they're

going to break into your house and they're going to Uh. I heard all kinds of things. When I went over to Austin, Texas, I was so paranoid about Bigelow that actually slept with a gun under my pillow the knights in the hotel room. Have you had heard some horror stories at bigelows with the government or something like that. Oh, yes, I've heard lots of

stories. I've heard that, you know, the government's going to tag and bag your house and they're gonna they're gonna follow you, and they're going to steal things, and they're going to do this and do that. I heard and including mostly the Bigelow side of this was the one that was the scariest.

You know, those people work for this group and that group, and they all have these government affiliations, and it was kind of uh I believe it or not, it's actually kind of scary in a way because people you don't know whether to believe the stories or or whether to just kind of blow it off. Mm hmm. And has anybody who asked you, absolutely not. Yeah, none whatsoever. Well, now, a very strange incident happened in my house, and I'm just going to chalk it up to the kids

playing next door. There was a laser target shot through the back window of the house. And this was like last week. And then of all things, a friend of mine called me up on the phone and said that a good friend of mine that lives up in Albuquerque said that he had been targeted with a laser two. But see, I think mine was the next door

kids. And then he later called me back and said that, well, there's a movie set a block away and they were doing some some swat team stuff and he says, I think that's where that laser targeting thing came from. So you get paranoid when you hear the stories, yeah, I'll bet I know. But other than that, I haven't had any instances of anybody, no threats, no, nothing other than the ones where people were just saying you need to be careful and that's all. Yeah. Trust no one,

don't don't even trust me. That was a person that were talking to. But I've heard the don't trust anybody, don't uh, don't do this, don't do that, and and uh, those are the kinds of things that you hear. But you know what, I have had absolutely nothing happened whatsoever, nothing good, I think, Benny, Yeah, I don't. You know, stories of people actually having problems are very far and few between, but of course extremely extremely But of course there's lots of suspicions and uh,

you know you see on a lot of movies and ex files. Do you feel like, uh fuck smolder at all? You know in a lot? Actually, this is I've kind of pondered this. I love doing the research thing, and uh, it's it's with all the with all the problems that I've run across from I mean problems people kind of ignoring me or not. Yeah, I would have to say, yeah, kind of kind of

feel like that probably the best way to describe it. You you, you know, you've seen things, You've you work on things, You've got information in your hand, and then it's hard to get people to pay attention to you because they think you're off in some squarely la la land somewhere right,

especially considering the possible implications. I mean, should things pan out, and I have thought about that and I don't even know what what I mean other than and I'll mention this because the researchers at EarthTech over in Austin, Texas when they said, if this really does come out to be something, what are we going to do except maybe stand there and just be in awe, which is what I would do. But as far as the ramifications as to what it might do to the rest of the world if it does pan out,

you know what, I really do think that it's high time that the government comes forward and basically says, hey, you know, it might it might help society as opposed to hurt it they That's just my eye, that's

my take on it. Yeah, well, my guest would be I think the best thing would to do is to do as big a pr campaign as you can if if it all comes back, and we'd be more than happy to help, and we'll But I think if the media really get it, then perhaps and the media really boasted, then perhaps that they will feel obliged to give some sort of answer. Otherwise they're really good at just ignoring people. And that's very true. Like I said, I've sent this information off

to a lot of groups, a lot of people. Most of the time it gets I'd have to say that a vat ninety percent of the time, it gets ignored. You know. I even tried to and not recently, I tried to get some of the open minds has than the best so far. I mean, I've seen the write up that you folks have did on this is really very nice. It's gone out to some of the some of the news feeds, and it's all done in good taste. There's nothing distorted.

It looks great, and that's the kind of that's the kind of reporting that I would like to see. Yeah, well, it gets me excited because I know, you know, in this field and in the science in this field and the scientists I've worked with, they always talked about the importance of the isotopic research and getting that done and the importance of findings on those values like you've gotten so hopefully. Yeah, we'll see from here. It's

exciting to have something to look forward to. I'm looking forward to it, that's for sure. Yeah, well, thank you very much. We are pretty much out of time. Thank you so much for coming on the show and explaining all this to us, and we're certainly looking forward to the further results. And I got to say, you know, it's been a pleasure meeting you and getting to work with you because you're a great guy on top of it all. Well, and I appreciate Open Minds talking to me on

the on the radio show that you folks have got and I'm excited. Yeah, thank you very much for talking with me. If it panned out, maybe you'll be on the front cover of one of our magazine. Ah, that would be good too. Well have you standing there the guy who who found the smoking gun? Oh? That would you know would be kind of history making. It would definitely be history making. All right, thank you so much. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. All right, it

was wonderful having Frank on the show. Thank you. He's a great guy. And tomorrow I will post all the information he's talking about with the charts and the graph. So all of you metallurgists and scientists that listen to this show, there's the top scientists of the world. Listen to this show. I'm sure you're going to be able to go to our website Open Mindset TV tomorrow and check all of Frank's work and check that out and see all the

pictures and everything yourself. So very exciting. Fine, and next week is a great show as well. Ted Peters, who teaches systematic theology at Pacific Lutheran Theology Seminary. He put together a study about religions and how they would react to disclosure if they found out aliens we are really visiting our planet and would they all freak out? His findings were very, very interesting. He's also a very neat guy, so this is going to be a great one,

so be sure to join us next week as well. It's going to be a lot of fun. And as I said, check out the website tomorrow for Frank's findings and to see pictures of the materials that he found on some of the data that he talked about today. And if you're a technical person you will just have a filled day exciting news. Hopefully it all pans out, because yeah, like I said, this could be the smoking gun.

Thank you for joining us this week on Open Minds TV. Don't forget to join us next week and be sure to check out openminds dot tv for all the latest in UFO news. Talk to you later, people,