Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with nature Boy. I'm supposed to say Martin nature Boy willis Wow. I'll take that title any day. I like that. Yeah. I thought of that because you said you were out picking blueberries in the field, and I can just picture you with your little bas basket kind of skipping around, maybe some flowers in your hair. Yeah,
it was uh uh. That's one really great thing about Maine. We have some beautiful blueberries this time of year, and they are so yummy, really good too. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of blueberries. I love blueberries. But you know, do you remember the Nature Boy the uh the Bugs Bunny episode. No, oh you don't. It's a really good one.
It was a boxing one and like the first contestant and Bugs Bunny was, you know, in his corner was Nature Boy and and this corner Nature Boy, and they show him, you know, and he's kind of walking around and in this corner Killer or whatever his name was, and he's alf wrote this big, huge guy. So he he uh makes the little time of Nature Boy. So Bugs Bunny him on and and and the hilarity ensues. Is that the Tasmanian devil on the other corner. No, it's some big
dude, but he kind of sounds like the Tasmanium devil in it. So, yeah, it's a very good episode. You're gonna have to look it up. I'll have to. It's probably on YouTube. So and that's something I don't know that the kids get is Bugs Bunny. And you know much of my humor is due to Bugs Bunny. Bugs Bunny was highly influential, perhaps the most influential television show in my life. Wow, how about that? Now? Who was the character that did all the voices? He was
really talented, Al Schultz. I think his name was No, No, no, no, no, yes, sure, I think it is No. I'll have to look well, right, well, you could look it at it some time. But anyway, well, Martin's looking that up. Let's get back to UFO business. And speaking of UFO business, the guests we have today is all up in the UFO's business, and that is Earl Gray Anderson. So you may have heard me, yeah, talk about him because some of the cases that Martin and I have talked about are cases that
he has handled or will be handling. In California, and so I talked about him so much, I thought, you know what'd be great to actually talk to him in person and record it and have it on the show and see what he thinks about UFO hunting out there in California and how he got involved. And I'm glad I did because I think his story is fascinating, so really cool stuff. So we've got Earl Gray a move on UFO Field
Investigator coming up in just a few minutes. However, prior to that, we are talking to mister Willis, who talks to us about UFO news. First of all, I have to say that's mel blank is the voice. Oh mel blank? Yeah? Yeah remember that now, does it? Yeah? Sounds familiar? Yeah, yeah, he was talented. He did all the voices. Anyway, back to UFOs, as you're saying, and uh, also, I'm glad to hear we are on the new radio station. You wanted to bring that up, right? Oh I already did. Oh
you did? Where was I? I was me Brooks? Yeah, yeah, had to him on your high hel Brooks. But anyway, I had it before. Well you know, maybe I haven't. Maybe I was talking about it, uh somewhere else but yes we're on kg r A. Thanks for bringing that up. I guess it was last show. We've talked about it and it's a lot of fun. Yeah, and say hi to Race if you're listening. Race, Yeah, mister Race, Hobbs Race obviously pushing
the buttons and stuff behind the scenes. That's right, that's right. Well, I want to talk about a an event that happened a long time ago, but the guy just recently reported it, and that was a It was a massive metallic triangle in Georgia. This happened back on June first, he remembers the date, June first, two thousand and eight. So he was driving, He was driving home with a friend and they was headed from Cartersbilt to Canton, Georgia. That is not far away from Atlanta. And so
this object was very large and strange according to him. And what is really amazing is that he decided not to tell his friend that was driving. He was in the passenger side. He decided not to tell his friend about it because he didn't want his friend to think that he was nuts. According to him, so was massive in size and it was the most beautiful chromish metallic thing he had ever seen. This is according to him, and like I said, he was so shocked he couldn't even tell his friend, and he
waited all this time to actually report it. And you know his in his own words, he was saying, he's seen things in his life he couldn't explain. However, he would find a way to explain them in some way or another. But this craft itself, he thought there was no way to explain away unless it was some type of government craft that is something you do here a lot. But he said, it didn't appear as if it was
moving at all. It was almost stationary, and there was another little plane in the sky, but he couldn't he couldn't look at anything else but this as he was riding along. And there's a really nice illustration that was entered. I don't know if he did this graphic himself or if that was someone else did it, but it's a check it out. It's writ in the story. I like the graphic. Although what I on my mind as Georgia, Sweet Georgia, Got Georgia, ah my mom. I don't know why
every time I hear about Georgia, I think of that song. I guess I just love it. But yes, This is a really cool sighting. I mean, it's so strange, this silver triangle. I haven't heard of a chrome kind of metallic triangle story before, and this one, like you said, you know, really floored this guy. He didn't even tell the person driving the car because he was so nervous about looking like a goofball.
But yeah, he did a great job on the illustration. It was kind of a funny little side note he put in there that he actually works with paints, you know, spray paints and stuff, and that he would have done a better graphic. He was kind of someone you can tell who's artsy and was embarrassed about his depiction. But I think it's great. It really gives you a feel for what this person seems to have witnessed or experienced,
and it's really really weird. It does sound like it could be man made, some sort of you know, experimental man made aircraft using a type of cloaking technology. But I mean, even if you had a shiny well, you wouldn't want something to be super shiny because then it would just reflect the sun. So I don't know's it's weird that's true. Also, I don't I don't know about You know, I don't know about you, but if
I saw something really really strange, I wouldn't care. I would, you know, I'd want to have more witnesses and yeah, you know, to the person next to me exactly, Yeah, I would feel that way too. I'd be like, check this out, check this out. You know. I'd want them to have their own experience, and then I would want them to relay their experience separate from mine, to an investigator too, so
they can get their interpretation, which is important. You know, something think about when you for UFO witnesses is that it is important to not talk to each other. Okay, right, so then you influence each other's memory. It's better to both write down what you experienced independently as soon as possible, and then you can really relay that. And you know, memory they've discovered is highly, highly manipulative. It's once people start to talk about stuff,
then they begin to their memory begins to change. So if you write it down immediately, you need to refer to your own reference and trust yourself that you had done something. Don't edit your initial thoughts, don't change them or alter them in any way, because they're going to be the most accurate record. You know, that is really really good advice that you just gave. And you know, I had Class Fond from Sweden on my show recently,
and that's exactly what him and his wife did. When they were driving along they saw these cross shaped UFOs like glowing in the sky like I think there were five of them, and he said to his wife's ays, don't say anything. And they got to their house and went inside and they went in separate rooms and wrote everything down. And that's exactly, you know, what you just said, And it is really a good idea to do that. And it's really hard to understand how your memory can be manipulated, but it
does indeed happen. And I wonder about my own sighting if there's some things in it now that you know that may be different than I remember. Yeah, memory is very malleable, and there has just been steady after steady after steady. One of the seties I read, what's interesting is they had people write down what they witnessed right when it happened, and then they had a
group not write down what they had happened. And the group that was interviewed later that had not written it down had remembered better, interestingly enough, But it comes back to law enforcement. So the point was that once you write down your experience, people don't try to remember it accurately anymore. So at
that point the memory really gets jaded and messed up. Where the people who try to remember their citing at least remembered more for a period of time, but still over time your memory gets messed up, and any questions a police offer officer asks a witness influences and changes their memory just simply by asking the question. So it's something that's why they do a lot of these studies to train law enforcement, so they're not influencing the witness unintentionally. You do hear
a lot in those cases. Well, they'll cite something along the lines where you know, the recollection was not consistent. In other words, you know changes over time, and I be part of that is a natural you know condition. Yeah, yeah, very interesting stuff. So, yeah, that's a great case. People check that out. Another cool thing. I'm really excited to talk to you about this. This is a lot of fun.
This is a survey that some people contacted me. So this organization, this group did a survey and they were asked by twentieth Century Fox and the Phoenix Forgotten film to do this, and they probably got a hold of me because I did a lot of working with Phoenix Forgotten to do some promotion on the movie, just to talk about UFOs and the Phoenix life. So the survey that was done is yes about Americans belief and aliens. They interviewed about seventeen
hundred people, and what they found is interesting. Now, they highlighted some points such as you know, in their survey, forty seven percent of Americans said they believed in aliens. That's pretty interesting. But then they went on to ask about alien abduction and it was less than twenty percent that believed in alien abduction, but still a higher number than I would have thought. And then there was even less than that who I claimed that they had seen a
UFO. But there were some other interesting statistics. So sixteen point seventy four percent claimed to have seen the UFO. That's not too surprising, you know, not everybody sees one. But twenty seven percent said they knew someone who had reported a UFO. That number actually might even be kind of low. This is kind of cool. Out of everybody they talked to, forty five point five percent said they had heard of the Phoenix Lights event. That's pretty
surprising to me. Wow, isn't that crazy? That is now, what was the group of people that they surveyed. It was a widespread group, so the numbers I got the link and I had looked at it, but it was about fifty to fifty male female. It was people from all over the country, so it was a pretty wide group of people. I was just wondering because when it comes down to the amount of people that actually, you know, claim that they had sightings, and I wondered about how where
they came up with twenty seven percent. And the reason I'm wondering that is how many people would actually ask someone, you know, a friend or something, have you ever seen a UFO unless they'd actually seen one themselves. You know, it's kind of a well, that's a good point. So these are probably people who did not ask anybody. I think a lot of times it just comes up. You know, sometimes friends see something and they're excited about it, and so they tell their friend, oh my gosh, I
saw you afote. But I think to your point is a lot of people will not have shared that information. So even though twenty percent knew of a friend who had seen something. Probably if people were actively asking their friends that that hire might be, that number might be higher. But this was kind of cool, and this wasn't surprising eighty percent of the Arizonans because they did
have about three hundred Arizonans in the survey. Eighty percent said they knew about the Phoenix lights and that's not too surprising to me because it's in the news out here quite a bit. But there are some other interesting things. So for instance, they asked, do you think the Phoenix lights could have been caused by aliens? Sixty seven percent said yes. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot of people open to the idea that the Phoenix lights with some kind
of big alien spacecraft. So that's pretty interesting. That is something and you know, I guess mainly from the people that were following that. I mean, how would you explain something that people were describing as you know, a mile wide or large? Yeah, you know, be really hard to figure
out what the heck it was if it wasn't yeah, alien. And what's cool about that too, is that it seems the majority of people out there do believe the witnesses that you know, they did experience something that was really strange and large and silent, So that's kind of cool, yeap. Some more great questions that were asked is if they felt that that aliens would have
friendly or hostile intentions. And this is despite I made a note that you know this movie Phoenix Forgotten, the aliens are bad dudes who kind of hurt people. And then there was a movie called The Phoenix Incident, and some of my listeners might remember, you know, interview Mike Aram who made that movie, and and that also had some aliens who hurt people and stuff.
But only nine percent were sure that aliens would be hostile, twenty five percent believed that they would be friendly, and sixty six percent said I'm just not sure. Yeah, I think I'm in that sixty six yeah, who knows. So some other funny questions are some questions they asked, some of which were a bit you know, silly or funny, but they asked, what do you think abductions are? Why do you think abductions have taken place?
The majority, forty seven point nine percent said genuine interest in human anatomy. The next one thirty seven percent said medical experiments. The rest of the people are a lot of people. Thirty percent said none of the above, but twenty five percent said future colonization, So twenty five percent, well, yeah, they're going to collize this, and then a similar to the none of the above, five percent said other, U, but we don't know what
that other was. So other questions, who would you volunteer to be abducted by aliens? I don't think anybody should be volunteering anybody for that, but the majority was no one, so that's kind of nice. Forty eight percent
said I'm not going to do that. That's mean, but about nineteen percent said a frenemie, seventeen percent said myself, nine percent said a colleague, eight percent said their significant other, that's kind of scary, yeah, and five percent said all the aboves, so they would nominate all kinds of people. They're clicking off. Okay, here's a list of people to abduct, and then the other and eight percent said other, but I'm not sure what that was. What do you think it would be like to be abducted?
Seventy four percentage said terrifying. I think that that's most accurate. Twenty eight percent said enlightening, twenty percent said deadly eleven percent said fun, I don't know who these eleven percenters are, and then about three percent other And then finally, what would you do if you found footage of an alien abduction? Because this movie was a found footage movie, so was the Phoenix incident,
So if you found footage, you know, some VHS tapes. First of all, a lot of people wouldn't know what to do with VHS tapes, but you and I, of course are old enough to know and may even have players. So we popped it in our player, and you know, it looks like a credible abduction event. What would you do with it? Fifty percent said send it to the press, thirty percent said post it on social media, twenty about the same, A little less said bring it to
the military, and then fifteen percent said bury it. They would not want the world to they would bury it. That's kind of weird, isn't it. Wow? Yeah? Yeah, What would you do in that case? Oh? What would I do? I would? I guess it would depend. I would go to the press. I would first try to verify it, though, but I would work with colleagues, some of which are in the press, and then I would probably release it. Of course, on
our site. So then I'd post it to social media and everything. And luckily we have press that look at our site, so then I think it would get out to the press. But I would want to have, you know, some credibility attached to it, so I document how I found it and what some credible people, colleagues, you know, feel about it. So what about you? Sounds good? I would call you, Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, we'll break oeter on it. Yeah, help me like I do off ye. So yeah, we wouldn't bury it.
That doesn't seem to be the best solution. No, no, no, no, yeah, why would you do that? Yeah? I don't know. Maybe it's maybe it's just scary to them or somehow or something. Yeah, you're afraid that humanity, of what humanity might do with it or something. I don't know. But that's a pretty cool survey. It's pretty interesting, isn't it. Yeah, it's really really great. I'm glad that people actually participated in it, you know. M Yeah, it's really important
to the questions because do you believe in aliens? It's such a broad question, you know, and it's a poor question because there's so many nuances to that. If you said, you know, do you believe that perhaps there are is there are you know, maybe microbes on Mars or something like that. That's you know, you might get more people to answer or something. Do you believe that there's you know, at least some sort of microbes on
some planet? People might say yes, But aliens, you know, may invoke the idea of you know, like et or something, and then people are probably more skeptical of that idea. Yeah, although I think that you're going to see that just grow and grow with, you know, the more discoveries there are of you know, earthlike planets out there. I mean it
just the odds are just so high. Now, it's if and you also wonder, when they're serving across section of people, how many people even have an interest in any of this, or you know, they're just replying off the cuff of what they think. Yeah, And I wonder even to this day, if people know that the majority of NASA scientists and essentially what NASA is doing so much of is looking for aliens. They're looking, of course for that microbe or they're looking for evidence of some sort of life, not
necessarily intelligent life out there. But there's a lot of people who don't follow nasauro science enough they might not even know of, you know, some of the developments lately in that area. That's so true. Really, yeah, people need to get edgumicated. That's right, that's right, especially on this topic. So yeah, So that's a really fun news story that I'm glad we got to talk about, and thank you so much to the people who
sent it to me. They didn't want any publicity, so I won't mention the name of the group that did it, but they wanted to make sure that Phoenix forgotten in twentieth century. Fox got all the credit for the survey, and I'm glad they did it, and really interesting and it's cool they came to me. That is great, And it's all right for someone to share this from your site, right oh heck, yeah please do yeah,
yeah, please do. I guess they shared it with Cheryl too, so she wrote something up on it. But so myself and share are the Cheryl are the only ones I know who got it. So cool stuff. Great? All right, is there any more news from you, my friend, not on this side that I can think of? No? All right, well, thank you for joining me once again, and let's go ahead. And talk to mister Earl Gray after this short break. I am very happy to welcome to the show, Earl Gray. And I should have looked it
up. I can't remember your last name Anderson Anderson because I never used to last name, and you everybody calls me Earl Gray. You know, I was going to ask, do you actually go by Earl Gray? Uh? Pretty much? And you were born though before Star Trek Next Generation and John Luke Bacar's famous you know interest in Earl Gray. T So where did that name come from? Well, I'm a musician. I'm a working musician in
Los Angeles. I have a few baths, you know. And around nineteen eighty nine, uh, you know, kind of I was sort of hanging out in the same crowd that you know, the band X, John Doe, Xcene Servanka and all those guys were hanging out yet and everybody had a little handle you know. X scene is certainly not you know, isn't the
singer from X's actual name. But it was just kind of, you know, kind of a romp and having fun and plus there were you know, there were certain there was also another guy, Carl Anderson, who was an R and B singer out here, and people kept confusing us on the Marquee and such. So I went with Earl Gray back in nineteen eighty nine. It was not on Star Trek yet. It was just you know, more or less looking through a cupboard and there's a box of tea, like all
that works, you know, and it was just kind of fun. But now here I am, you know, it's you know, twenty and seventeen, and I'm kind of stuck with it. You know. Yeah, I like it, you know, and given your interest in UFOs and I'm sure you probably probably I'm guessing you were a Star Trek fan and probably a Jean Luke Bicard fan. Sure, but well the other Earl Gray came before,
you know, Star Trek, the next generation was right. Yeah, so it's kind of cool that, you know, it is very cool your name, all of a sudden is a big part of a cool show that I know I loved, and really, no doubt was one of my inspirations for being involved in all this UFO stuff. Absolutely absolutely, I'm a total nerd. I mean, ever since I was a kid. You know, my mom, my mom worked in aerospace, and that's a whole other story.
But she was actually Howard Hughes's personal secretary. You're kidding, Wow, not kidding you. And she she worked in some according to her, and when I was a child, you know, she worked in black sites and stuff, and you know, she wound up working as a headhunter for Lockheed Skunkworks. Actually, wow, that's not too surprising. I know that what was his name, Van Tassle. I think his name is that Giant Rock?
Yeah, sure that. Howard Hughes used to fly in and fly to Giant Rock literally because there was a a you know, it's big and white for people who have been there. You've been there, I know, and people would land there and have pie at the guy shop. And this is the guy who said he was talking to aliens and had these gigantic gatherings of UFO people out there in the middle of the desert in California. Valiant thor right,
yeah, the whole thing. So, so, do you currently live in Las Vegas, because I because it looks like it seems like you're an investigator in California. Yeah, No, I live in in the San Fernando Valley here in southern California. All right, A native you know, I been here all my life, although I spent a lot of time in Arizona as well. I love your state, you know, Yeah, it's a good state out here. Although we love California. I get out there as
much as possible. I'm, I'm we're just crazy about the beach. Uh there you go. Yeah, you don't have that there No Lake Powell. You know Lake Powell if you go up north a little bit. So you said you were a geek, a bit of a nerd, and to prove that to me, you know, earlier we had the Skype video on and you were showing me some of your UFO models. Do you do you actually build those models yourself, like from scratch. Uh, you know, I'll go get like the old Tester kits and stuff just kind of you know,
it's my my version I guess of a fidget spinner. I guess building UFOs plus you can't really buy you know, pre made UFOs or I guess you probably could, but probably cheaper to make them yourself, you know, I mean they have they have quite a few models. So you know, I've got like my little t R three B. You know, it's like, well, you know the government hasn't hasn't really admitted that that's there, is it? But there is a model, you know, uh huh. Somebody
made it, you know, went from a little blueprint there. So it's just fun, you know. Yeah, it's cool. And I was going to stay because, like you were showing me the model of like the Bob Bazaar area fifty one UFO there, and it didn't look like it was out of kit. It was pretty large, so you must have built that from scratch. No, it was a kit. It was Wow, that's a big one sport model. Yeah, you can. You can find them, you know, just have to google UFO plastic models. You know, a
bunch of stuff will pop up. Yeah. I built a Roswell Tester model, but I have no idea what happened to that over the years. I think it's in a box maybe somewhere, if I didn't throw it away. Yeah, yeah, I've got that one too. I mean, I have all of them. So let's go back to the beginning and what originally got you interested in UFOs. Did you have your own sighting or was it something else was growing up around my mom my mom when I when I was very
young, you know, four or five, six years old. My mom was now a housewife. She she was not working for Howard Hughes anymore. And she started talking a little bit to me. She was talking about, well, she talked about stuff that I didn't hear of mentioned again until years later, that she, you know, she had worked in some underground you know, deep underground military bases. Wow, this was back in nineteen fifty eight. My mom said that you would go out to the middle of the
desert, you take a little elevator has kept on going down. It was an Otis elevator. She said, there was just like going up in a skyscraper in Chicago or something, except that was going down, you know, and she felt like, you know, well, they didn't really tell her a lot or what to expect, and she she thought that, you know, this can't be right, you know, we must have it's either really
slow or well, no, it was just going down really quickly. And she said that back in nineteen fifty eight, they had a little city down there under the desert. And she didn't mention the name Area fifty one or Edwards or anything like that. You know, she was talking to her kid and my mom obviously she had taken security ofs and the best I can. You know, well, I do know now you know that she wasn't supposed to be talking about this, and she certainly wasn't supposed to be talking about
deep underground bases. And as the years went on, she talked about aliens too, with great authority, like she knew what she was talking about,
you know. She would say, like, for instance, I remember when the Betty and Barney Hill story it came out in Life magazine, and my aunt and my cousins were out visit, and my mom and her sister were talking in the kitchen about that article it was in I guess it was was it Look magazine, I think, And my mom told my aunt that, well, this could very well be true, and my aunt's sort of giggling and and and then it sort of started getting heated, you know, because
it was scary, you know, what she was talking about. And my mom said, well, I just I just do know you know through my work and such, that you know that there are other races out there, and you know, this sounds like it could very very well be true happening, you know. And I remember, you know, they were reading like the little part where it says well, they stuck a needle in her navel.
And I remember, like, you know, at this point, my cousins and I were around the corner kind of listening in, and I'm elbowing my older cousin, going, what's a navel? What's a naval He's going, you know, it's a belly button. You know, they stuck a
needle in her belly button like aliens, you know. And I remember, you know, that was the first time where I just really felt like the willies the first time, like just this strange, prickly feeling over my body, you know, thinking about this, and it was just kind of you know, like having occurred and ripped off of your universe and seeing it in a different way, and there were some scary elements out there that perhaps were uncontrollable by us, you know. And you know, that was really where
my whole obsession with UFO started. And I started taking books out at school and I sort of did a little show and tell in fourth grade and I got in trouble. I mean, the teachers were because I started talking about UFOs and I started talking about my mom, which I was not supposed to
do. And after that, the teachers actually got a hold of my mother and he said, well, your son's sort of talking nonsense, you know, and maybe you can, you know, kind of And so she got me home and you know, I got like that raised eyebrow talk from her. And I was like nine years old at the time, and I just well, you know, son, I wasn't supposed to tell you the stuff.
You were really really young, and you know, I was just I, you know, I And she didn't say this, but I feel, personally, Alejandra, like she felt like she needed to tell somebody, you know, and that I was safe, that I was young enough to forget about it. And the thing is, I didn't forget about it. I kept bringing it up. And I brought it up, you know, till the day she died, you know, and she kept her secret clearance up
until nineteen ninety nine when she passed away. And finally, you know, when she was on her deathbed, you know, my mom had gotten many cancers, and we pretty much had hypothesize that the cancers had come from her work because she was you know, at these black opsites, you know, under the desert. They had it under there for a reason, you know, for secrecy, and probably dangerous materials as well. So the sixth time my mom had cancer, that was the time where she was, you know,
seventy four years old. She'd kind of given up, you know, her sixth bout with it all unrelated cancers. It wasn't fantastasizing so much as it was just reappearing, you know, she'd just been irradiated somehow. And she finally kind of talked with a little less obfuscation involved. And she still wouldn't mention like bored aliens or but we'd kind of talk around the subject and she didn't. It wasn't like she disregarded it or said it was untrue,
you know. Pretty interesting. Yeah, I had a story with a guy a couple of things. Guy had a story with a guy who worked with my sister, and they rented out furniture as a furniture rental place, a real popular one, and they would rent it for stars and stuff. But one of the delivery guys said the military ordered some desks and stuff that he drove out to the desert. And this was New Mexico where they do have you know a lot of bases and stuff all out here in the southwest where
we are, and yeah, he drove down. He didn't see anything, you know, and then this thing opens up in the desert and he drives into it. This elevator takes him down. He doesn't know how far. They're told to unload this stuff in a hallway and it was just this big, long, concrete hallway with doors every so often, and then they went back. It's pretty weird. But also I wanted to mention, you know, about your mom, it's not so far fetched that she could have got
sick because they do stuff they're not supposed to be doing. And we know this because there's a big Area fifty one case in the nineties with Bill Clinton where they because and Bill Clinton essentially had to say, you know, they couldn't be sued for doing all of these illegal things with like nuclear waste and stuff like that because they were top secret. What they did was top secret
and we couldn't let their processes get out. And they just said that the base in Nevada, they wouldn't say the term Area fifty one at the time, but yeah, it was a big thing where unfortunately people were dying because they were burning waste in like giant pits and stupid, stupid crap just because
they didn't have to adhere to the laws. It was that particular case that kind of opened up the door with my mom where she just kind of, you know, you saw her just kind of do a whole full body sigh and we started talking with yeah, because I wanted her to lawyer up, and you know, because they you know, my mom got paid well, but not that well, you know, for a trip to Europe every year more or less she'd go to you know, every year, she'd rent a
flat in England and she'd spend her summers there, and that we weren't a rich family. I mean, we were just sort of you know, lower middle class, but you know, that was Mom's little tree. Sad. It's sad what to think of what these people were thinking. They were putting people's lives at risk, and they knew they were doing that. And sure, maybe these people are paid well, but it's not worth you know,
their lives and putting people's lives at risk. So really sad stuff. Yeah, well, she said that she was proud of what she had done. That she you know, she she thanked me and and and said that you know, no, she would never do that, that she was proud of what she had done. She'd done it for her country, quote unquote, and that was kind of that she wouldn't talk about about actually, you know,
filing a lawsuit against against them whoever it was. I mean, it would have been technically the US government, I guess, so we would have had, you know, figured out much branch. But well, that's fascinating and extremely fascinating. And I could talk to you probably the whole show just about your mom and our background and what she's done, but it's already times flying by, So I do want to talk to you about then when you got involved with move On? Uh, And I guess why and how.
It's been about oh, two and a half years ago that I you know, I've been watching a lot of the Hater one shows, of course, you know, which was a wonderful production, I thought, And uh, you know, I've been reading UFO books all my life, just not obsessively. Yeah, maybe about five six years ago I really started started tracking it down more. You know. It was it was sort of like, well,
I know that this is an actual phenomenon. You know, I have something that a lot of people don't have, and that I grew up. No, this you know that it was sort of a fact that I grew up with that we had been in contact with extraterrestrial civilizations. And so I just really started kind of doing the armchair investigator kind of thing, reading a lot of books, you know, searching the Internet, and it became more
obsessive for me. I really wanted to I mean, back then, you know, I was hoping, well, I want to be able to prove this is real, you know, with apart from my mom's stories, which of course I haven't. I wish, you know, I could, you know, I tommed along. I guess I'm doing a bit of disclosure apparently, but you know, I don't have you know. So when I joined MUFUN, I got to know Jeff Krauss, our state director, initially through Facebook, and he thought that I would make a good field investigator. You
know. He said that as a musician, you know, I'm kind of a jammy musician, you know, and that he felt that was important that you had to have good instincts, but you also had to be able to hit the note. You know, there's science behind it, but there's also an instinctual element to it. So Jeff mentioned, you know that he thought that I would make a good field investigator, and it was sort of like, well, you know, this is just feels like everything's sort of falling
in line, and this is part of it. So I went and I did. I read the Field Investigation Manual and it went. You know, I did it in about a week. To tell you the truth, you know, I just kind of applied myself. I had some orthopedic surgery done, so I was off for you know a little while, so and you
know, I really just took to it. I love investigating UFOs, you know, I guess I do have a knack for you know, you know, you get to where after you've done enough cases to where you recognize certain earmarks of cases that some probably you know, to gate a little more thoroughly than others. And uh, you know, I love Moufon because of the science element, because I am kind of a science a stickler for science, right, And I've noticed that, and you're you're not afraid. And I
know this is a struggle. I was an investigator with MUFAN and I work with them. It's always a struggle to tell people who are convinced that they've captured something unusual that most likely they didn't, and uh, you know you've given your experience, you've seen, uh you know what they've captured before. Uh, And it's not a it's an honest mistake. A lot of times we've learned the hard way because we made the same mistake the witness did and
then we learned otherwise. So I know that's hard to do, but I've noticed that you do that. And we'll get into a couple of those instances. But I do want to ask because it is kind of a you know, a topic right now. The last and had some pretty French stuff. Some of the speakers were talking about secret space programs and you know, Obama being on Mars and this whole secret space war with Aliens and stuff like that, I mean, and some people felt, you know, oh, I'm
so mad at Moufon that I'm leaving. And I can understand, you know, I appreciate everybody's perspectives. But how did you feel about that And did it really actually ever make you feel like I'm out of here audios moof On or were you just kind of like hey to each their own? Yeah? I was more hey to each their own, I mean the way I mean, I am very very concerned on one level that I think day two of the symposium. Day one had some really interesting speakers, and I think even
day two had like like one or two kind of you know. I think Tom Killer was one of the guys, and he's usually really good, you
know, but the Corey good stuff. I mean, there's you know, Richard Dolan talked a little bit about this at the symposium on day one actually, right, and and I'm pretty much I fall in line with him that there's you know, there's a good UFO story, right, and sometimes you know, if the person doesn't have anything to gain from it, you know, I always have to look at that when I'm when I'm doing a particular case, you have like a scientist come out and report a UFO or an
astronomer, say, the providence is a little more present there, right, And if there is not, you know, quantifiable evidence other than the person's story, if the person doesn't have a whole lot to gain from it, or they have something to lose as far as you know, respect in their field, I tend to give them a little more liberty there. And and you know, there there are UFO stories, you know, I had had one last year that just knocked my socks off. And the guy had absolutely
nothing to gain from it. It was a full on disc with and he did not see it occupants, but he saw people walking towards this disc. It was hanging over the ocean. And you know, I grilled the man, you know, four or five different times. We talked about it and talked about it. The story didn't change. He didn't add anything to it. He didn't embellish his facts to make it more interesting. I mean, it was pretty interesting right up front. And I gave that case an unknown
even though it was a historic case. It happened back in nineteen ninety two. The man didn't have anything to gain from the story and he had everything to lose. And so, you know, but when I have you know, there are other you know, we prefer to have the cases that have science, that have multiple witnesses, that have educated witnesses. For instance, we had a recent sighting and it wasn't as flashy as some of the UFO you know reports that you see in the journal and such, but I thought
it was quite compelling. It was four PhD uh four PhDs up on the rooftop of the Caltech Astronomy building. Wow, calibrating calibrating a new a new radio, a ham radio antenna they were installing up there. Uh. The one woman was, uh, you know, she has a PhD in astronomy and also in radio astronomy, and uh, anyhow, they're they're struggling with this intenta on the roof and they see a UFO and they reported the UFO
and uh, you know, I'm talking with this woman. It's got two PhDs and it's sort of like, well, you know, I don't have a PhD in anomy, So what do you think? What do you think you saw? What was that? And she said, well, it hovered, you know, it had two bright turquoise lights that were just just like laser points. The thing just hung there and then when it's shot up into the atmosphere, shot up in the stratosphere. We saw it go up, and we know, you know, we're used to looking at you know,
objects that are way up in the atmosphere. Wow. And none of us could explain this thing. The only thing that we could. You know, most people on that rooftop were skeptics, and now there's a big question mark in their lives. They saw something that they could not could not explain. Wow, that is really cool, and especially because, like you said, the great thing and people say, oh, a big deal, they got
a PhD. It's just three letters or whatever. But people like this, especially in astronomy, are very skeptical, which is a good thing when it comes to science. So it definitely gives more credibility when someone of that nature is saying, hey, this is really something unusual. Yes, And you know, because this woman is a scientist, you know, I was. She was able to you know, like go to colored charts to give me the exact color of the lights. She was able to give me, you
know, approximate distances. And you know, unfortunately she didn't have a FIATA light up there on the roof when she when they saw it. But you know, I thought that was a very very good case. Awesome, that is a good one. So great. We'll get into more cases that you've talked about after the break here, but we're going to take a kg r A station break right now. For those of you in the podcast. We'll
be back in just a couple of seconds. For those of you on kg r A, stay tuned for some ads that keep kg r A rolling, so be sure to uh check out some of these advertisers and their products that are coming up in a second. All right, we are back with Earl Gray Anderson and we were just talking about a really cool case that you had at Caltech where I'm assuming then that case was you closed as an unknown. Yes, that was an unknown, and I was really happy about that case.
It's one of my favorite cases I've had. Oh, you know, I've investigated hundreds of cases so far, but that's definitely in my top five. Yeah, that sounds like it. That sounds like a great one. But another case because what's funny And one of the reasons, you know, I thought it'd be fun to have you on and listeners wouldn't mind. I think it interesting. I think the listeners find it interesting too to talk to people who investigate UFO. So I think anytime we talked to any move On
Fieled investigator, it's fun. But your name has certainly been coming up quite a bit lately, and it's not just because you are a listener, thank you very much, but because you've been handling some of these California cases that Roger and I have been featuring at the Openminds dot tv website, and one of them that we spoke about lately was now you have some more information on and we'll talk about that a bit. But this was at I think Contact
in the Desert. I don't think we identified what it was, but it was a UFO conference, you know, a few months ago out in the desert, and the people felt they got a video of a jet chasing a UFO because there were two sets of lights. The first one was solid, the second one was blinking, and I think it was with a night vision camera. You can tell us more. But how did that case turn out?
It was a questionable case. Now, I had closed a case the year before that was from the Contact in the Desert SkyWatch and it was the same group of people and and you know it was you know, there were like fifty people out there with the IR glasses and I'm not going to mention people's names here, but that one, you know, we had multiple witnesses and it was kind of like, oh wow, you know, well maybe they really did see a UFO And we did close that as an unknown.
A year goes by, it's the exact same event and lo and behold, like like it was scheduled. We had the video that you're speaking of, you know, where it appears line of sight that a jet was chasing down a UFO and anyhow, we were somewhat troubled. Not somewhat troubled, we were very troubled that, you know, I mean, there were really only
three, really three things that it could have been. In fact, I'm going to I've got the case file open yere, and I'm going to read what I finally pretty much decided here that more or less, either give me
one second here because I'm scrolling, here we go. So this was what it finally really came down to that I have to suffice that either number one, extraterrestrials are currently working in tandem with a for profit UFO SkyWatch group making annually scheduled appearances, or the second choice is that this, you know, was just a spectacular coincidence that for profit UFO group just happened to be present for the second year in a row to experience an even videotape with IR,
you know, technology that which most of us aren't lucky enough to have even seen once in our lifetimes, and they turned a profit to boot so synchronicity, I don't know, or number three that we have to figure that it was a planned hoaxed event. And I really struggled. I mean, I couldn't really see any other choices between those, and it may be, you know, somewhere between maybe somebody is hoaxing them. But it really would be easy to make a video like that by sending a heating element up in a
drone. You wouldn't be able to really see it. It would be very dim with the you know, if you're using your naked eye, but through eyer glasses it would be quite spectacular. And you know, it's a line of sight video. I don't think that anything was being chased by that jet. It wasn't a scrambled jet. It was just jet, you know,
flying over the desert like they do. You know, someone had made the comment to which it seems valid, is that the lights, two sets of lights are actually on the same aircraft because they are moving at the exact same speed, they're pretty close to each other. It's just one set of lights was blinking and the other wasn't, which which makes sense as well. I
didn't think that it was a UFO being chased by a jet. Yeah, And you know, and I know what you mean because I think the problem is I believe that your first scenario, you know that aliens are coincidentally visiting annually, you know, this for profit event. I think the organizer's many of the people they're believe that they believe that they're you know, trying to communicate with these aliens and bring them in, and that's what they think is
happening. But as you probably know, and I know, when you're in these groups of people doing these skywatchers looking for UFOs, there's or even at
a conference at all, people suspend their beliefs. I mean, even with the Moveline Symposium or the UFO Congress, where we have some people I'm not always aware of how fringe or wild some of the claims that some of the speakers that are going to make, and it's their you know, right to do so, but people will gravitate towards this really fringe stuff and there's like
this suspension of belief. And it does happen at contact. I mean, there was a picture that clearly was not an alien, of someone like standing behind the panelists, and you know, later people were able to show who it was and everything, but they were convinced they even were showing me, look, we captured an alien. I was speaking that year at our conference,
and I think they genuinely believe they're getting these UFOs and aliens. But as we know, you know, there's probably other explanations for and it often turns out there is for these things that you're believing to be you know, paranormal. Yes, well, I mean it leads me back to Newfon's mission statement that it's supposed to be the scientific investigation of UFOs for the benefit of
humankind. It's not you know, the gut feeling investigation of UFOs or or the you know, we have a crowd of people here and we all you know, are hoping to get abducted tonight, you know, investigation of no you know, I mean it comes down again. You know, my friend and mentor and state director Jeff Krause, he has a little saying and he told me this one I first started doing what it is that I'm doing here, that you know, you've got to keep an open mind, but not
so open that your brain falls out. And that's really truly sort of my my credo, you know, and approaching this that you know, if I were doing this on my own, then perhaps some of the more you know, fringy stuff would be more acceptable. You know, You've got your little gray basket that you got off to the side there, you know, and you know, and I'm Earl Gray, so I certainly am a great gray
basket, you know. But because I'm investigating for, you know, an organization that's coming up on its fiftieth anniversary in two years, you know, the scientific principles behind Moufon are very very important to me. I you know, I really hope to keep Moufon centralized on that mission statement. And that's the way that I invest to get these things. You know, I have an open mind. I hear some crazy stories, and some of them I've
called unknowns, you know. I mean some of them have been spectacular, and you could even call fringy, but you know, there was enough providence to them that, you know, I gave it an unknown classification. But I really want to have the science there. I don't go by gut feelings, you know, I really want to have the science there. And you know, the contact in the desert video just did not cut it for me.
Yeah good, Yeah, and understood because when people came up with those other explanations and I. You know, that's the hard thing with lights in the sky too. I mean you could see a mothership, you know, and a jet chasing it, and your video comes out to be, you know, one light in the sky and another blinking light that looks just boring
and lame. So I mean it's hard. But in this case, and knowing people involved, you know who I and and we had talked about this, you feel are prone to mistaken identity, you know, on a regular basis that you know, another case of mistaken identity. But it's interesting, you know, this, this kind of crowd mentality that happens. Crowd mentalities always scare me, you know, because because people in big groups can can be scary, they can convince each other to do some some sure some Monty
Python. You know it's a witch. You know, it's a witch. You know. Yeah, I mean, you know life of Brian stuff, you know, I mean, yeah, you know. I mean, it's it's much easier to accept stuff that you probably wouldn't normally accept when there's fifty other people that are you know, raising their hands up in the air, you know, shouting, you know, power up or whatever it is that they were shouting out. There. You know, Oh right, that's a
good point. People will yell power up and expecting the UFO to turn their lights brighter. I guess they're assuming the UFO is powering up. And what's funny about that is, okay, so they have some sort of technology where they get brighter when they power up. It's funny because Lespiegel is always saying, what's with the lights? Are they headlights? Why they have? Yeah, it's so funny, but yeah, and that serves to this mentality and
getting people on a frenzy. And you know what to counter that people because you know, I think some people get embarrassed because later on they're like, you know why, you know, we were all sitting there and convinced that this was this, but I know it wasn't. I should have maybe said something. The thing is to counter that, it's just be cognizant of it. Be careful. When you're in a crowd and you feel yourself kind of getting excited with everybody else, start to think, oh, you know,
am I falling into this kind of crowd mentality thing. I better take a step back and look at the big picture. So you always have to be checking yourself and UFO investigators got to be doing that all the time, checking yourself. You have to, there's no you know. I mean, sure, I've got Jeff over me, who's great. You know, he checks on me, and every once in a while he'll say, oh, look at this case. Can you know are you are? You? Come on?
You know, and every now and then, you know, I don't always agree with Jeff, and you know, there are certain unknowns that I've certain cases I've closed as unknowns where he might not have, you know, but we're mostly on the same page. And the science has to be there, you know. And if if MUFAN leaves their scientific principles behind, who's going to be who's going to actually be investigating UFOs in a way where say a scientist might actually look at that report and and and think, well,
maybe there is something to this. If we become a new age entertainment company. There's there's already new age UFO entertainment companies exactly. You know. That's a good point. And when I was doing pr with move On, people would attack us all the time, why don't you do this or that? And I used to always say, because someone else is doing that. Move On is doing something unique and needs to focus on what they do because it's something that no one else is doing. You can go other places for these
other things you're looking for. Yes, And that's not a slight on the other people doing these other things. It's great they're doing that, but it's just not what we do. But I do want to move on. I know you have some other cases you want to talk about. So, yeah, so you have some other recent sightings that you think were pretty cool. Yeah, sure, I was. I was telling you a little bit about you know, and and all UFO cases aren't flashy. In fact, the
more important cases are usually not the flashy ones. You know. It's the stronomers on the roof seeing something that they can't explain that to us might look like a prosaic object. But there's no way to explain those two laser pinpoint lights, you know, hovering there and then going up into the stratosphere. We don't, you know, at least, there's nothing that we're being told
that we have that can do that. But every once in a while, you know, you'll get a case that that is flashy too, and kind of and this was I I think I was talking a little bit about this earlier, but I really loved this case was from a few months ago and it was case number eight three three eighty four, and I talked a little bit about this. It was a historic case from nineteen ninety two, but it was quite a profound sighting and it really had, you know, some
question marks for me about exactly what did this guy see. I'm just going to read you his narrative here in the report, oh right. Because I was driving home from a date late in mid August nineteen ninety two. I lived in Olmita, but it was a beautiful night, so I decided to take the long way home by taking Palas Verdes Drive north, which snakes along the cliffs of Palas Vertices. After driving through Lunada Bay, I could see
in the distance a greenish glow coming from Point Vincente Cove direction. As I got closer to the greenish bioluminescent glow grew, I finally rounded the corner where the turnout to the cove was, and the glow by then was all consuming. I pulled the car over in the turnout they have half expecting to see a movie that was being shy. I got out of the car as I walked to the cliff's edge. I noticed three people to my left looking down
at whatever was in the cove. It was unusual because I saw no other car parked there. It was dark, but I could tell it was a family of three, a mom, a dad, and a small boy. The mother had her arm around the child. I continued to the cliff's edge and peered over and directly in the exact middle of the cove, hovering eight feet above the water with a classic saucer shaped dome craft rained with green lights, with no more than it was no more than fifty yards from me.
It was big, at least forty feet across. It was domed and had unreal skin. The closest thing I could compare it to is a slick, oily puddle. The rainbow colors were dull but prismatic, and had a swirling motion. It began to hum, and as it did, the water beneath it began to bubble and steam. I yelled over to the family left of me, but they stood there silently, motionless, mesmerized by what they were seeing, or so I thought. I was beginning to get spooked. I
wanted to see the craft submerge or take off. But I was getting an overwhelming feeling of dread. I couldn't believe my luck or my eyes seeing this astonishment up so close and personal. I looked over to the family, but they were rounding the corner, heading down the path that led to the water's edge. That was it. I wasn't going to stick around. I got in my car, I took off. This story has been weighing on my mind lately. Thank you for the Catharsis that was his narrative and speaking with
him. You know, there were so many details that it really stood out to me, you know, and this was an intelligent man, you know, he was a writer. He said that this had haunted him for years, that he felt like perhaps he should have tried to grab the family, you know, that maybe they were under some kind of you know, malevolent control. But you know, he was afraid, you know, he was scared, and he finally just and he said that he was so afraid that
he could smell the fear on himself. You know, he was sweating and that you know, there was fear in the air, you know. And you know I remember once picking up accidentally picking up a handful of black widows, spiders, well, moving some stuff in the garage, Oh my gosh. And I remember smelling fear. I know what that's like. And so when he you know, it just really ranged bells and there were so many
details. And again, you know, this wasn't one of those cases where I had trace evidence left over, but it was after speaking, you know, after reading the man's report. Well, you know, so much of it has to do with when you go and interview the witness. Yeah, and you'd want to get them to repeat the story multiple times. If that was a movie, then the next day he would have read in the paper about a family with their young child gone missing. Right, But there was
nothing like that. You know, he never heard anything more about it, and it waited on his mind for since nineteen ninety two, and he he more or less, let me see, I'm going to look for when I was interviewing him, Well, we're about out of time. That's okay then. But it was a very good case. Yeah, And like you said,
that is a really interesting one. And you know the impact and this goes to speaking to being a UFO field investigator, speaking one on one with these witnesses can be fascinating because you know, for some perhaps his story might not feel as interesting. But when you're talking to a person one on one and you find them to be very credible people with incredible stories, I mean, it really grabs you. I mean, it's a if you're into this
field. That's why I tell people that they should become an investigator, because there's nothing like it talking to these witnesses one on one. Yeah, it changes. I mean, it changed the way that I look at the universe, like I can honestly say that it took it from you know, well I know this theoretically to you know, I know, I mean, I know that there's a phenomena there that can't be explained in prosaic terms, and
we're looking for that. You know, we want to, you know, we want to sort of throw rocks at all of these UFOs that and the stories, you know, and see what stands up, what holds, and what you know remains true. And that's the scientific you know, oul comes
razor and you know, we definitely approach it that way. But in approaching these cases with that attitude and trying to remain skeptical purposefully, you know, I can walk away from the phenomenon, say there's something there and there's something that's going on, and it's very very real. It's has meaning for us. It's one of those deep questions like is there a God? Are we alone in the universe? And do they know about us? There are deep
questions and you know there's almost a spiritual element behind it. You know, it's like deep cosmology, same same kind of feeling that I get, you know when reading about you know, dark matter in the universe, and yeah, it's a exsistential type of thing. Absolutely well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Really really interesting stuff like I thought it would be. And yeah, we'll have to bring you on to talk about some more cases eventually. I'd love to thank you. Alejandra yep, thanks so
much, and keep on investigating. I'll do that, keep on looking at take care of my friend. Thank you so much to Earl Gray Anderson for joining us today on the show. That was a lot of fun, all of the news that Martin and I talked about at the beginning of the show. Of course, as usual, you can find at Openminds dot tv. And by the way, thank you for Martin joining us as well. He runs podcast UFO, which is another great show, so check that out,
Google it and you'll be able to find it. But good stuff. So I also want to thank Caleb Hanks. He creates the Open and the Close music and systematics. They actually do that bumper music that you're hearing. Pretty cool stuff if you ask me. So those are great people who have a volunteer to donate their music and they're just people who make music on their own time. Really really cool stuff. And if you want to hear more about Caleb's music, you can go to open minds dot tv and click on the
UFO radio tab and see some more. Thank you to kg r A for hosting us. It's a lot of fun being on this station with all of the other great podcasters. And I want to remind you not only can you find the news on a daily basis at open mindst tv, and you can follow us on Facebook and Twitter. You can find the information there. You can also follow the UFO Congress on Facebook and Twitter. Why is it that important because we got new news coming up about the UFO Congress on a regular
basis. Registration is open, so go check out Ufocongress dot com to find out how to register. It's at the beautiful week of paw resort. You definitely want to be there. Tons of UFO speakers, tons of UFO people, and we've started to post some speakers, and this is of course you guys on the radio show always get to hear about this first. But you can see some of those speakers there. We got Tl Keller, he's an aerospace engineer. We've got Jennifer Stein talking about crop circles. We have Don
Schmidt talking about UFOs. We have Bryce Zabel. Oh I haven't even posted him yet, but well, I'll tell you more about him later. You can also go listen to my podcast interview with Bryce. But we're also having Steven Bassett, which is kind of nice because he's been off in Europe and he hasn't been doing many conferences, but he is a friend of the Congress and he's a friend to open minds, so we're going to be happy to
have them there. He's always good for kind of rallying the troops, getting everybody really excited about the topic, so he always adds a lot of energy. But as usual, we're gonna have a lot of great speakers and a lot and some surprises in store for you. We always try to, you know, outdo ourselves and bring you some really cool stuff, So stay tuned. Visit ufocongress dot com for more information on that. That's right, ufocongress
dot up. Otherwise, we'll talk to you guys next week with another great show. I hope you have a wonderful week, and thank you so much for joining us once again. Until next time, Audio's mood toutos