This is a commercial, free archive edition of our live radio show that airs every Friday at noon, Arizona time on openminds dot TV. Welcome to open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO
Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for nearly a decade and has logged hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome. This is Alejandro Rojas and you are listening to Open Minds Radio, where we're bringing the UFO subject into the light of day. We've got a great guest today in studio,
doctor Ruth McKinley hover. Not the doctor Ruth you're thinking of, but instead someone who has done a lot, a lot of work, decades of work helping people with the abduction phenomena. We've had others on talking about this, and Ruth is local here to the Phoenix metro area, so we'll be talking to her about her experiences. So I'm really excited to talk to her. I've known her for a little bit now that I've been out here, been seeing her at all of the events, so it's going to be a
lot of fun. So we'll be talking about that in just a few short minutes. But I did also want to talk about the magazine. Of course, our magazine, Open Minds Magazine is out. It is at all of the Barnes and Nobles, so you should be able to check it out. We sent people to local Barnes and Nobles to make sure they were there, and they are there and they're really cool, so we've got a lot of
great response on how great they look, so we're excited about that. We've got stories in there on the White House and the current administration and their UFO connections. We've got information about abductions. We also have information about a group of kids, and we'll probably be bringing up doctor John Mack, who is
a Harvard professor, a psychologist who looked into abductions. But he also researched a case in Africa where some children were at school and they saw craft land and this entity came out of the craft and they were able to talk to it. So those kids are older now and so in our magazine. We have a story on what was going on with that. We've got a lot of news because of course we cover UFOs in the news, and so you can see a lot of those headlines. And as usual, before we talk
to our guests, let's talk about UFOs in the news. We've got our news correspondent Jason McClellan with us in the room. Jason, give us some updates. Good good Friday afternoon, Alejandro, Hello Phoenix, and hello world. This is your Open Minds News brief for Friday, April second, twenty ten. A European probe has discovered the first planet orbiting another star that resembles
a planet in our own Solar system. The planet known as corbut nine B, named after the planet hunting satellite which discovered it, and it resembles Jupiter in size. The planet is cool enough to contain liquid water, creating the possibility of life, and its temperature is estimated to be between seventy three and
three hundred and fourteen degrees fahrenheit. Wow. You know, we spent a lot of time talking about Virgin Galactic and the new space tourism that's coming very soon, and I can just imagine people planning their trips to this planet they think is going to be a comfortable seventy three degrees and they get there and it's three hundred and fourteen degrees. You have to go in winter, that's
for sure. That's right. In other news, the UK's The Sun reported this week on a video that has appeared on YouTube of a UFO captured by a police helicopters infrared camera. The video was shot on Christmas Day in nineteen ninety four and shows a spherical object racing through the skies over Long Beach, California. Smaller objects appear to come out of the main object, and some believe the video shows an alien spacecraft releasing probes, while skeptics say the object
in the video was simply space debris burning up in the atmosphere. There's been no comment from Long Beach police officers regarding the strange video. It's a great video from a police officer a police helicopter, so it's a few years old and the sun is just kind of picking it up. But it'd be interesting to see more from that one. Also in the news, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology found a mysterious pattern on the National radar system what has been described
by some as resembling crop circle patterns. The Bureau describes the imagery as red stars, rings of fire, and white donuts. The Bureau explains the strained imagery as occasional interference to the radar data. When you look at the the strange visuals that they're getting on this radar system, it's bizarre. It seems strange to be just a error in the radar system, but it apparently it's happening in quite a lot and they can't explain it. Some of it they
explained by clouds interfering with the system. But in a lot of these pictures there are no clouds. Oh, that's really weird. Yeah, I haven't looked into that one much. In other news, after being sworn to secrecy for nearly five decades, former CIA contract workers from Area fifty one are free to tell their stories about time spent working at the location of so many classified projects. Area fifty one with the test site for many secret military aircraft,
including the A twelve and its successor of the SR seventy one Blackbird. James Knows, a former CIA contractor, recalled several government black projects, but says he never saw anything connected to UFOs. However, he says the government did mind stories about aliens and UFOs because they helped cover up the secret planes they were testing at Area fifty one. Yeah, it's still you know, I
don't think this. I only worked there for three years. He worked a shift, and usually they don't let everybody see everything going on exactly, So I'm sure there's a lot more going on that these guys weren't able to see. And those, Yeah, those who were involved, You're right, would have been few people, not everybody at Area fifty one would have known everything going on. Yeah. Usually you only know about your one project and that's it, right, And it sounds like these guys only knew about the A
twelve precursor to the s R seventy one, and that's it. That's the only thing that they talk about. Yeah. And In entertainment news, the nineteen eighty two classic Ech was recently named the greatest children's movie ever, beating out modern blockbuster hits like Shrek and Finding Nemo. The poll was conducted by marketing research company One Pole, with e t in the number one spot. Toy story Mary Poppins, The Lion King and the Wizard of Oz made up
the top five children films of all time. But with ET, it's interesting thinking back on ET and then thinking about all of the children movies that have come out in the last two years and how many of them are alien related. Yeah, a lot of them. And you know, when we get doctor russin here in the next sament, we'll talk to her about that. Being a psychologist, I know she's worked with children, so we'll talk more about that. Because they thought this thing was going to be too ugly for
kids. Kids were going to freak out because it's this ugly creature. But no, you know, everybody loved it. I loved it, and I know watching it when I was growing up, it certainly was a movie that made me start watching the skies. Oh really, I remember that, you know, starting to look in the sky and wondering what was out there, what other things were out there, and when was I going to see something else? Yeah, it also started my love affair with Reese's pieces. But
I think that's true for a lot of people. But I mean that's how I felt, you know, as a little kid, I already had seen Close Encounters convinced me so right. I was already watching the skies and then to see this, it's like, wow, you know what's out there? Absolutely well, that's it from the news. I'm your Open Mind News correspondent, Jason McLellan. Back to you, Alejandro. All right, great, thanks Jason. So we still have a lot coming up. We've got doctor
Ruth McKinley coming up. And I also wanted to mention the Vision Quest Metaphysical Bookstore. We are going to be there Friday evening at about seven pm. We meaning all of Open Minds and our editors to be there to answer questions about UFOs, to talk about UFOs, to meet the public. So I'm really looking forward to that. That's going to be a lot of fun. That's going to be on April thirtieth, which is a Friday evening at Vision
Quest Metaphysical Bookstore. And that's at two two two five North Scottsdale Road in Scottsdale, Arizona, So two to twenty five North Scottsdale Road. They have a lot of really cool books there. They always have some psychics there. They have some beautiful clothes and jewelry, so it's definitely a place to check out. And I believe this weekend they've got their Metaphysical Fair going on, so you can go there and meet with writers, meet with psychics, things
like that. So that's two two two five North Scottsdale road Visionquestbooks dot Com. So that's an event that'll be fun coming up here because I know some people have been wanting to meet who are the people behind the magazine and our
radio show that makes up Open Minds. They're also carrying our magazine, so I've already talked about that, And also I want to remind people that you can go to our website to see all of those news stories that Jason had mentioned, and more so, we update that on pretty much nearly a daily basis. If I'm not sick or in Mexico or something, we update that on a nearly daily basis, so you can see the latest and the greatest
going on there. And also you'll be able to see stories on UFOs and the like, such as one of our feature stories that we have up here is a UFO wine that was inspired by a flap in Chateau de Paupas if I'm saying it correct, but essentially it's pretty cool what had happened was there were a bunch of sightings in this area in France and all over France in nineteen fifty four, big ufo wave and this vineyard decided that they were going
to make it illegal for the UFOs to land in their vineyard and to affect their grapes at all, so they wouldn't have their wine affected at all. So they made a decree. The mayor said it's illegal for them to land here, and it worked because they didn't have any UFOs landing there. But there's also a wine by Bonnie Dune may that is in recognition of this event, so pretty cool. Check out our website open mindsat TV to see more
about that. We'll be back in a few seconds with doctor Ruth. You're listening to Open Minds Radio with Alejandra Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. We are back and we are going to be talking alien abduction with our guest doctor Ruth. Hello there, Hi, nice to be here. Thank you, thanks for coming in. And to start off, you are a doctor. Is your doctorate in social work or psychology? Psychology? Clinical psychology?
Okay, so you're a clinical psychologists as well, right, which is helpful of background to have, especially in this piece, even if you're only your own sake. Yeah, So in your history, how did you first come across the abduction phenomena and what did you think of it? Back then? Background is always overdetermined where you end up. It was a surprise to me when John Mack called me from Harvard and said, how would you like
to join the program for Extraordinary Experience Research. And at the time, we'd been traveling a lot. We worked for a travel company, so we'd been to like Egypt many times, Peru many times, and all the questions that you stack up in the back of your head. Here was somebody calling up and saying, hey, join the club and we'll tell you more about this and you can learn more about it. So it was a slam dunk.
I was part of the research community from then on. What did you think of the whole idea of people being abducted by extraterrestrials At the time, actually, it wasn't too quote alien to me because I read copiously. I have a giant library, and I was just thinking how overdetermined our adult lives are. Because growing up I had an obsession with finding out all the secrets,
and I end up a researcher that's researching the secrets. There are no accidents, and our travel when we went to Peru, specifically Peru in Egypt, gave me the most insight into that what we learned in the history books isn't real history. Crop circles too, and in England, because I believe that the crop circles are the communications we are getting and we are only now beginning
to determine what the crop circles are saying to us. So when had you heard of when doctor Matt called you, had you heard of the idea of alien abduction? Yes, and I'd read a few things along with, you know, reading everything as it comes into print. And I knew of him, but I was not part of his peer program, which when he invited me to obviously I joined immediately. And we're really going to miss him.
He was an advanced mind on the planet. Yeah. Unfortunately, doctor Macis passed away just a few years ago, hit by a junk driver, So very unfortunate. And I loved his books. I definitely recommend people to go read what he'd written on this field because he was a very advanced thinker. The name of his book, Abduction everybody should have that, yeah, for sure, And he was looking for answers and beyond kind of just a black and white, whether it's a physical thing, whether it's a just purely mental
thing. He is very advanced in looking into what might be going on and drawing parallels with shamanism, and he looked at in all areas nothing. He didn't close his mind down to anything. And in going to the crop circles, he had the same experience that I had, which is these are so deliberate, there's a message here, and only in a very few of them
have we literally decoded the message. For example, there's one that is obviously the Solar system, and the first time that that crop circle appeared, you saw all the planets in their orbital patterns, but Earth was missing. And if that's not a strong hint to listen up, I don't know what is. Five six years later, the exact same crop circle appeared in the exact same field, except this time Earth was in its own orbital pattern. So that's probably a good sign. That's a good sign for me as far as
I'm concerned. So when you started working with people, did you feel or do you feel that this is definitely a phenomenon. When it comes to subductions, that's a physical there's a physical component, absolutely reality based, and when it's in your bedroom in the middle of the night and you're by yourself, you know it's real and you're scared to death. No matter who you are, you're scared to death. And John Mack was willing to look at that
and to listen to people. And I think he did more to get people to work through their fear and listen up because we have a whole different body of knowledge now about what they're telling us and how they're telling it to us than before. He started looking at the abduction phenomena and the abduction group I ran for the larger Phoenix area, it ran for eleven years. Wow. And these are people, every single one of them have had some kind of
an abduction experience. And that's not small potatoes, you know. Yeah. So, if there is a typical scenario, what would that be? What have people described you happening to them? Usually it's waking up at night and feeling sleep paralysis. That's like a loud bell that says, Oh, I'm lying here, am I asleep? I can't move? And then they become aware of something else or someone else in the room, and from then on it's not confabulation from a psychological point of view. They are not making this
up. They are describing something that is so overwhelming to them they can't make sense of it. And when they get around other people who've had the same experience, you can see their anxiety level drop, and then they begin to talk about it. So I think the event happens. People are scared, and as they talk to other people with similar experiences, the fear level drops and curiosity that he sets in. And we have a lot of really good
data from people who have been visited or traveled. Now the visitors are they typically the same type of being or they're often different types. They're generally the same type in your bedroom, and I call them the escort committee. They're the popular little grays. But there is a lot of education that takes place, and that is of all different kinds. Tall, skinny ones. The best visual the general public has. Bob Dean and Whitley Strieber got inside Area
fifty one and they snapped a picture of an alien there. It's on the cover of Robert Collins's book Exempt from Disclosure and the picture's crops, so all you can see are the big eyes and the head, and if you look at the original photo, it goes down to right below the neck. And it's a very disturbing picture because quite obviously on this little tiny spinly being with a big head, its neck has been wrung. I mean, it's twisted like a rope. And sources tell you, oh, we found it in
a crashed saucer, but I kind of wonder. And at Area fifty one they had it inside in the lab for study and it expired during that period.
So that's the most common type escort committee that right, see. And then they begin an educational process with a lot of different types of the tall, thin ones, and information drops into your hands, you know, you go to the bookstore and the book falls on your foot, and more and more people are describing their experience, and less and less often you find their books not in the occult department, but in ancient history, which is kind
of fascinating to me. Yeah, Now, what sort of information are they as being portrayed to these people in the educational process. A lot of it is we're here, we exist, get used to it or get over it. The other one is almost like a missionary zeal that you guys are trashing your planet, stop it and stop it. Now you think very differently about the tree huggers and the programs that are going on, because that is basically what they're telling us. We share this universe. What happens here is going
to be important to us. It should be even more important to you earthlings. Which is interesting because in that South Africa store that I had talked about earlier with the little kids, even the little kids, they didn't receive any sort of communication, but just from looking at these beings, they got those same messages that were destroying our planet, and we need to take care of our planet better. And it's interesting to see these little kids talking about Well,
it looks like we have developed the ability to hear telepathically. And I don't think there are a lot of people who can communicate telepathically, but there are a few, so I think that's their method of communication. Well, we've got to take a break. We'll be right back. We're talking with doctor Ruth about abduction. So stay tuned. This is Open Minds Radio here again, your host, UFO, paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Welcome
back. This is Alejandro and you're listening to Open Minds Radio. I want to remind people you can call in during our next segment here, and that's going to be at six h two two seven, seven, five three, six' nine or TOLVE three if you're not in the Phoenix metro areas twenty sixty six five three, six eleven hundred, So give us a call in
a minute if you want to ask a question. I have a lot more questions for our wonderful guest today, doctor Ruth McKinley Hover, who is a clinical psychologist and working with abductees, and I wanted to ask about the procedures, the medical procedures that often people describe during these experiences. The medical procedures would appear from all the reports and all the writings would appear to be geared
towards reproductive issues. And obviously that's really scary if you're an abductee who gets carted off and laid on a table and procedures performed on you. But it makes sense in an intellectual way when you realize that what the Grays have told us is that their race is weakening and may becoming extinct, And I think from working with doctor Mac and reading copiously, that most of their visitations have to do with reproduction. I mean, I think they're desperately trying to save
their race. I think, yes, they take sperm and eggs. Yes, we see that as in dignities. Nobody asked us, and yet it strikes me that if we knew what they knew, and information were openly shared, we might be thronging to clinics to donate stuff to them. If they really think their race is about to become extinct. Yeah, well why don't you think? They just don't ask, mainly because they don't talk like we
do. It's telepathic communication, which hits you like a ton of bricks when somebody looks at you and you can't tear your gaze away those big eyes. Early research I did was about camtrails and crop circles, and the minute I got into this field, it grabbed me in a different place. It wasn't intellectual, it was emotional, gut level, and you end up knowing what's going on with yourself and a better understanding of what's going on with others.
But much of the writing comes from fear, and it seems to me. The deeper you get, the more compassion you feel, the deeper you investigate, yes, yes, the more you find out about they or them, or where they're from and what they're looking for. We are so independent in this country that if somebody takes a sperm or ova sample from you and they didn't ask, we are just highly indignant. And a lot of the fear
is centered around how dare they? And that's our kind of And when you say you have no right, one of our abductees raised up on the table and found his voice and yelled, you have no right. And this little, tiny gray doctor looks at him and he says, of course we do, Yes, we do, and the guy just shut up. Well, they when you talk about reproduction being involved, also, this idea of hybridization, these people seeing these hybrids, is that sort of the method you think
they're using. I think it's one of the methods, But I think they're desperately searching for a way to extend the lifetime of their race. And when you meet a desperate person, you're usually a little afraid of them because you don't know what they're going to do next. And there's this air of desperation and an air of entitlement. The thing that most abductees are the most afraid of is I have no control over what they do or don't do, and
they feel entitled, right who are they? You know, we Americans have a great sense of entitlement. We think we're the it. And it's a real learning experience to be confronted with beings who you know. It's like, I'm your doctor, shut up, lay back, and you know, we're doing what we need to do. So these people who go through these experiences are traumatized, obviously, how do you help these people cope with what's happening? And then where do they get to Did they get to a place where
they're okay with what's going on? They do where you work with them? Is they have such a block talking about it because it is such a scary experience for them. It's like the world's worst nightmare. And you wake up in the morning and you think, God, that was a terrible dream. And then you look down and your night clothes are on backwards and inside out, and there are funny marks on your arms and scoop marks out of your
shin bone. That's pretty appalling. From our point of view. And when they can talk that out, and you can put them in touch with other people who've had the same experiences and they talk to each other, they start reminding of each other of well, did this happen to you? Yeah, and back there I saw such and such, And as they talk to one another, they begin to feel sane again, and then they begin to be able to manage it. And once they can manage it and just live with
it, then they start looking for the meaning in it. Do they find that their experiences once they talk to each other, are very similar, very very similar some and this is interesting. More females than males have the experience of being abused or raped or violated. Males quite frequently get an educational boost. They get taken and shown things, and they can't figure out what they're
seeing, but over time it makes sense to them. And I think your dreams are polluted a lot for a while, But as you let go of the fear and talk to other experiencers, which is what happened in the experiencer group, they started to realize that some of the six experience makes sense.
And I have one lady in the group who wakes up and she goes, oh, no, I'm so tired, not tonight, and she sees the little figure run over to her dresser drawer, pull out the bottom drawer, rummage around in it, take out some of her lingerie, throw it back in, and then exit. It's like a response to her, don't take me this time, you know, just take what you need and they're just looking around. Are there times like that? I mean, are people able
to sort of overtime communicate? And like this situation here, the communication is a toughie because obviously we run off at the mouth and they have no idea what we're saying anymore than we have an idea what they're saying. But if you can quiet your fear and look directly at them and they look at you, there's something about those big eyes that when they look at you, it's
in your head. It's telepathy and the only way I know how to and it probably it's a very green experience for most of us who are not naturally telepathic, but they can put thoughts in your head. Interesting. So, when it comes down to the hybridization and then the experimentation along with these educational messages, what do you think is their primary motive? Is it to share
information or or is it the experimentation. I thought about that a whole lot, and I was talking to one of my experiencers, and she said, what's our motive and putting a man on the moon, And I realize that who's visiting us are the scientific types for the same reason we go to the moon and get out and walk on the surface and take pictures of Mars. They're no different to go see what's there. They just have better ability to
get around the universe. Right, They've got some pretty cool crafts, Yes, they do. So with the physical marks you talked about, like scoop marks, which are could you explain what scoop marks are? Scoop marks When you wake up with one, you think you've been kicked in the shins. They're very sore and they have scooped out. It's like taking a melon baller and scooping out some flesh and tissue. And the common one in one of the ways that I use diagnostically is a series of red dots up and down
your arm and legs. And I figured out that those must be restraint marks because when I did gang work and we had some kids in psychiatric hospitals with the restraints. Those restraints left the same marks on the body as some of the body marks I see on abductee. Wow. Well, we'll talk more about that when we come back from our break, but right now we have to take a short bait. We'll be right back back with doctor Ruth McKinley
hover and we're talking about alien abductions. You're listening to Open Minds Radio on camp and X. Welcome back to open Mindes Radio. Here now former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFI Network, your host of Open Mindes Radio, Alejandro Rojas, Welcome back. This is Alejandro and the phone lines are open. So if you would like to ask doctor Ruth your own question, give us a call at six oh two two seven seven five three six nine. That's
six oh two two seven seven five three six nine. If you're not in the Phoenix meter, ariea call us at one eight sixty six five three six eleven hundred. But before you were cut off, we were talking about scoop marks and you were talking about some of them are similar to restraints. Yes, yes, well, and what we're told by abductees who remember as a horrific experience if you're taking it in and laid on a surgical table and restrained,
and then they come and do medical procedures on you. That no wonder, we're scared to death. I mean, really, yeah, that's kind of a freaky prospect, it is. And you know, I used to think of myself as just a little old lady social worker. But once you get into this business of educating yourself about it, more and more you go back and forth. First you think they're the bad guys, how dare they? Then you think they're the good gay guys? How dare we? And
then you think what does the government know? And then you get all caught up in that, and that's scary. I am more afraid. I get good data from the government, and I'm very appreciative of unusual contacts I've had with the government. But I'm less afraid of the aliens than i am our government. You know, it's interesting that I've heard from a lot of abductee's the same thing, because unfortunately, sometimes they claim they have had some problems
with the government. Have you had the government harass you for the work that you've done. I won't say it's harassment, but I have been visited and I have also had to sign some security clearances in exchange for you know, you have all this goal in the world picking me up and taking me here. Now, let's do a trade. And so I think they're working very hard to keep it secret because they've kept it secret for so long. There's a lot of dirty junk going on trying to keep the public innocent to what
is actually happening. And we are not always the good guys. Humans, Yeah, humans are not always the good guys. To me, it's it's fifty to fifty because some abduct tease describe usually the more frightening experiences with the very tall reptilian ones, and that is usually very scary because there's very little education. The movies are the cute little gray guys, the flying saucers, cartoons, books are always the little gray guys, but they seem to be
the doctors. And there's a whole militaristic crowd that are like seven feet tall. And I don't care who you are. If you're looking up at somebody seven feet tall and it's the middle of the night and you're in your jammis there is no equality there. Yeah, that would be a little scary. Yeah, and so this is a reptilian type that is more military and right, not as nice as even the gray guys. Well, and they function
apparently like our military does. Our military has to go in in power, secure a location, do what they're sent to do, and then out. And in some parts of the world our military is not even looked upon unless they can go in and stay there long enough that you make friends with them, and then they're very highly thought of as people. But generally speaking,
people aren't relating to the aliens as people. They're relating them to a nightmare because it's at night, you're not fully dressed, which makes you one down anyway, and they have skills and telepathy and all these things that are utterly beyond you. Of course they're afraid. Yeah, now with that on the flip side, some of the educator, some of the more kindler, gentler aliens, what are they typically described as pearents, the Tall Whites. Charlie
Hall has written books about the Tall Whites and the Tall Whites. We have whole families in Area fifty one has to keep secrets because that's its job. But if you are on we used to have a conference once a year on the outskirts of Area fifty one, and of course we all took our best binoculars and everything when we did this. And you can see the tall Whites walking up and down the far away hills, and they appear to float, and there's children, and you were able to see these as well. Oh
yeah, oh wow. But from so far off, it'd be like if you're down the block and walking and I could see that you're not jerky, you're kind of floating, and there'd be parents, small ones, children, whole families. Those are the tall whites. And my husband is fond to say, yeah, Ruth knows all about the tall whites, but she never deals with the tall blacks because they're all in the NBA. Oh she's tall
Whites close encounters that movie. I often wonder at the very end, you know, they have the little guys that look more like the grays, but they also have this big, tall spinley kind of person coming out. Now.
I often wonder if they were portraying a tall white probably in that video, probably because it was interesting that they've They had some help from their advisor, Valan j. Heinick, Yeah, Jalen Heinich, who was an astronomer who worked for the Air Force. So and the correlation between the type of entities in that movie. We were talking about Spielberg in the movie EP. What did he know and when did he know? What did he know and when did he know it? It would seem that, you know, they
had some insight into what people reporting as far as entities as well. Well. And the truth is we have had other beings as guests of our government in quotes for a long long time. The secrecy has been kept for so long now I'm not sure it would serve any really good purpose to kaboom come out with it. But I think if they loosen and let people have their
own observations of what's going on, they have no way of controlling. And masses of the population have been abducted, many more than make it into print. There's a lady in Phoenix who's writing a color book for kids that shows the aliens. So it could be that over a long expanse of time, they're slowly integrating into our culture. But the ones that the researchers are aware of come, do their business and go and are not around. Well.
I think that the the movie Et being the number one children's movie now that says a lot about integration and being accepting because they were worried. I know a lot of people like Eminem's wasn't in the movie because they were worried that the alien looked so ugly that the kids were going to be afraid. So Reese's Pieces was chosen instead of Eminem. But people, even though it was a very strange looking guy, because of the eyes and its mannerisms, people
were able to start to love this little alien. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're much more closely affiliated with aliens than most people realize. In the Phoenix Lights, you see this large triangular who wanted to be seen as it went right down our main corridor of I seventeen and right back up with billions of people seeing it. But I think it's very difficult for you to acknowledge
if you have a booky experience that's out of the ordinary. Our culture is built around being one of the guys, you know, and not being different. We try very hard not to be different in other cultures in England. And then when you go to Egypt or Peru and you see things that couldn't possibly be made by humans there is no way, and stones that are laid together and you can't even get a hair right. Like in Peru they have a lot of those right. And in Egypt the Sphinx, the pyramids.
Yeah, of course some incredible stuff. You know, looking online that brought up something. There's a picture from Egypt where it looks like in these hieroglyphics that there's a helicopter. Yes, those are my pictures, exactly like You're cared for that picture a lot. So were you the one to discover that. I was the one who took the first one, and I gave it out very generously to a lot of people. Neil Frere has it in his books and his talks. It was forty feet up, so I held my
camera over my head and snapped it. And I was just really lucky that this picture came out. And there's a submarine and a helicopter and what looks like a jet and another and that's been in all sorts of books. David Hatcher Childress we were having coffee at one of Chet Snow's conferences and I was showing him my pictures and he says, oh, I want one, So I handed him one. Because it's all over it's all over the place. If you were to google doctor Ruth McKinley, howvery most likely you'd come up
with that picture. We're out of time. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a great show, really interesting information. Thank you. So it's fun to have you in the studio here, and be sure to join us next week. We're going to have Stanton Friedman, everybody's favorite uthologists. He's on all of the time television shows. He is actually a physicist and he's been researching UFOs for decades. So join us next week
on Open Minds Radio we'll have Stanton Friedman. Be sure to check out openminds dot tv for news and information. This has been Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Rojas. Thanks so much. Bleak Thing. If you watch your feet, cracks aliens like goes folks pot cost