Dr. Lynne Kitei, Phoenix Lights 15th Anniversary

Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Hello, it is I Alejandro, and unfortunately I am all by my lonesome today, so Jason is not going to be able to make it. However, we have a great show still because this is our Phoenix Lights special. We have Lin Katai will be joining us, who

created the best Phoenix Lights documentary you will ever see. She has a list, just a ton of witness is talking about all the events that had happened. She herself had experienced the lights and in fact had filmed similar lights on

several different occasions, so we'll talk about that. That's really exciting. She also spoke at the UFO Congress recently, and then just yesterday she showed her documentary as she does every year since she's created her documentary at the Shay Harkins Theater here in the Phoenix area, which always draws a big crowd, and that was a lot of fun to see everybody and to you know, she sells out the theater and we get to watch this stuff, and usually a

lot of the witnesses and other people involved with the filming are there, and so it was a lot of fun. So we'll be talking with her in a little bit as this is as tomorrow will be the fifteenth anniversary of one of the best documentary, the largest mass UFO sightings ever in history, so it was a significant event and we'll talk to her more about that. However, as usual, of course, we want to talk about the news. Of course I'm more familiar. We'll talk about a couple news stories out there

on UFO Daily News. A couple of things I've written about recently are some of the strange lights filmed over and near Phoenix. So in fact, there was some blue blinking lights filmed here about a week or so ago. This was in the Cave Creek area, So if you're familiar with Phoenix at all, this is an area that is north of Phoenix. It's kind of been the very outskirts of suburbia and there are some blue lights filmed. This made

a lot of news. Jim Mann from the local move On group was interview dude, and he said he got calls from media all over the world or at least all over the country asking him about these lights. So it made lots of news. He has discovered that the lights were LEDs on a kite and you can kind of see that on there. But they did make a big stir and the media covered it pretty well. You know, they said, hey, we don't know what this is. What do you think,

Jim, And at the time, you know, Jim wasn't sure. He just said, you know, we're going to have to look into it and we shall see. However, more mysterious was a few days later in the Phoenix area when a strange light was filmed by a local news organization, the

local Fox News. So what happened here, and this is kind of crazy, is in the early morning last Thursday, about nearly five o'clock in the morning, they were doing their usual traffic talk, you know, and they put up the traffic cam behind the reporter as she's talking about the traffic and they're showing the highway and in the background you see this big flash of light from the ground, like this big explosion of light. And they have not

been able to determine what that is. They contacted the local power companies. The power company said no, there was no transformer that exploded or anything. We don't know what this was, and so it still remains a mystery. They said they didn't get calls of you know, people telling them what it was, and they were hoping, you know, later on that day they reshowed it and said, you know, what do you guys think this is? Did anybody see this? We're looking for information, but they have yet

to receive information on what that flash of light was. Very strange, and of course all of this kind of gets amplified as it is the anniversary of the Phoenix Lights and all of these local news organizations. Of course, I had a lot to do with the Phoenix Lights. They were receiving all of these phone calls. They were running out signed to see the lights. Some

of these people did. If you saw the interview I did with the Congress recently with one of the local stations, you know, they were talking about how they got a bunch of calls and everything when the Phoenix Lights happened. That was with the local CBS affiliate. Paul Horton was a guy interviewing me, and he said, yeah, you know, he remembers when that happened, and all these calls came in and I think these reporters take this step

fairly seriously because it was a important event. A lot of people, a lot of serious people had seen the Phoenix lights. And now even the governor at the time says, hey, I saw those lights and I don't know what the heck that was. And I even think it's extra treastrall I being Vice Simington who was governor at the time, So very strange stuff. Another story is from Openminds dot TV where Antonio Jhuneus, you know, the guy who we've had on the show. This guy's all right, you know,

he's very knowledgeable UFO fella. We've had him on the show several times because of course he's with Open Minds, and he we've talked about the general who came to the Congress from Chile and how he runs a UFO research organization that is backed by their government. In fact, it's an arm of the FAA, the Chilean FAA. So he came and he talked and we talked.

We've been talking about this because we were all excited. But Antonio wrote a pretty long story called UFO Disclosure Chilean style on his whole talk and how he got involved in the different things that he said on the talk, so you could see that at open Minds TV. There's a little bit of a video clip that shows some of what the general was talking about. Really, it goes more over the audio files from pilots who had seen UFOs, and then

there's some other pictures of an amazing video case. So I kind of picked this up. I wrote up on my UFO Daily News, but I also just posted a Huffington Post blog on this to try to get the word out there, and the Whopington Post blog luckily looks like it's doing pretty well, which it should because it's this big news. Now. I focused on this video and this is pretty cool because the general showed and I think we talked about it a little bit last week, but I'll review it again real quick.

Here for you, which was a video that was taken at a military parade, And this parade was in November of twenty ten, and they have a parade when the head of the military you know, is leaving and new guy is taking over. So at this parade, they have lots of jets flying around and they have kind of an air show going on, and there are a lot of important people there, the President, the head of the military, you know, the whole cabinet, all the important people are there

for this big celebration. Well, nothing really happened during nobody noticed anything during the celebration. But afterwards, the CEPHA, the group that does the UFO investigations, started getting some videos, and in total they got seven videos from all different witnesses who said, hey, we caught something strange in our videos.

When you look at the videos, you don't see much. You see these things flashing by and maybe you've seen this when you're filming and a bug flies by the screen, so you know, they thought at first, I think a lot of people probably assume they were bugs, but CEFA slowed them down and what they got are is this little round, silver domed objects. So it's more almost gum drop like really weird. So we don't have the video up. He showed the video at the Congress and you can see that

if you get the DVD. But the video isn't really you don't see much. Like I said, there's just a flash. What's more shocking, or at least more important, is the actual photos. So we have posted those photos and you can see the steals of the photos and the close ups and what read about the investigation that Cepha did. And behind the stage, you know, the General told me he was very excited to show me the video,

and I was very excited to see it, of course. So backstage when we're getting ready for his talk to make sure that all of his av works, he was telling me that he was a skeptic about UFOs himself until he saw these videos, and these videos are what convinced him that there's something real, that there's something anomalous and it's a real mystery and something's flying around there, and that he thinks it's very important that we continue to investigate this

subject. And of course we open minds and at UFO Daily News vigorously agree with him, so very it's a great case you'll have to check out. There's also links to the CFI site. If you speak Spanish then you'll be able to read all of their investigations. If you don't, you know, luckily you can, you know, use a Google Translate and it'll translate the site for you. But there are a lot of really interesting cases that they've

looked into, you know, lots of them are pilots. Of course, being a branch of the FA who are reporting things, in some cases things that are near misses that fly at them or or fly near them. But pilots who are seeing, you know, UFOs flying around, surprise, surprise. So it's wonderful you know that there's a country out there. There's not many that are out there that are doing real UFO investigation and have a transparency

to those investigations. So we're very privileged to have the General Ricardo Bermudez at the conference, and now you can get a glimpse into more of what he talked about by reading our stories. Get the word out there, because it's so important that you know, there are these governmental organizations who are investigating. They're spending a lot of money, they're having their astronomers and other scientific organizations come over this information to see, you know, try to figure out what

it is. And you know, it's great because they are finding out that this is credible, that there are things out there flying around that we cannot explain, and of course that's what we all feel is really important and that needs further investigation. So those are a few of the stories that happened last

week. A few more that you'll be able to find on Openminds dot tv will be you'll be able to see the highlights of the EB Film Festival also, so that's kind of cool because of course you're going to be able to see who the winners were and then check out the films that did win because they're really good. Obviously they won because people really like them. There's one

on the Legends of the Flatwoods Monsters. There's one on the UMO Files if you're familiar with that, one in General Craft of Unknown general or unknown origin, that was a winner. Some great graphics and it was done by a three D animation guy, really cool graphics. There was also The Truth Is Out There, which is a documentary that was put together by Dean Hagland, or at least he stars in it. And Dean Hagland was one of the

guys on the X Files. We've interviewed him actually on the radio show where he talked about all the behind the scenes on the X Files. He was one of the lone gunmen, the guy with the long bond hair and who believed and who didn't believe in UFOs. Interesting enough, you know, there were a lot of people, especially Chris Carter. He liked to call this not fiction but reality because he believed, you know that a lot of the

X file stuff was real. One called the Montauk Chronicles, and then the winner was actually it could happen tomorrow Disclosure Dialogues, and these are a lot of interviews between UFO researchers. So what they did with these disclosure dialogues is they had a lot of researchers, many of which, if not all of which we've had on the radio show, but kind of cool where they kind of interview each other and have discussions with each other, and there's hours and

hours and hours of these. So they just submitted one volume which was about two hours long, but they have something like ten hours of these videos.

So if you go to the Open Minds page, it's right now, it's on the front page where you'll be able to get to link the twenty twelve ebe UFO Film Festival winners, and there you'll be able to read about these and also they'll be links to where you can purchase these DVDs because a lot of times people will go to the festival or to the Congress and they'll watch these movies and then they want to know, hey, you know, where can I buy these, So that's why we put up the links as soon

as possible so you can go figure that out. So there you go. There's some of the news. Actually, I think probably that was the big news. I don't think I'm missing anything that big from this week. I think these stories I talked about were the biggest ones. Funny enough, mostly

being in Phoenix. I guess one other thing to notice is Jupiter and Venus up there, which you probably can see because they're super bright and they're in alignment and at the same time right about well maybe in an hour or so at least here where I am, you know, there's Mars, Jupiter, and Venus in the sky all at the same time. So that's really cool. That's something to check out, and that's kind of fun. But anyway, we'll be we'll have Jason back next week where we'll talk a lot more

about news. However, I want to go ahead and get right into our interview. And lucky for you all, we're actually calling link it Tai. And why are you lucky? Because what that means is that you always get some dialing music. Do do doo doo doo doo doo doo doo there's no place like home. My home, of course, is right now the Phoenix area where they're the Phoenix Lights. So a lot of uh doo doo doo doo, there's no look. Hello, it's Alejandro and you'r Hony. How

are you good? How are you? I am terrific. I'm still flying high from yesterday. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. And I'm sure you're busy, busy, and I believe you were on Coast to coast last night, right, I was in the midst of everything. They were curious about the mysterious light, which we can talk about today if you want. Yeah, oh right, that that mysterious splash of light. In fact, before you came on the air, I was talking a little bit about

that and how they still haven't figured out what that was. No. Actually, it's it's interesting because I was doing the morning show, the Fox TV Morning Show on Saturday morning and they asked me and I said, well, what have you found out? And they they actually, right then, we called SRP and the other utilities as well as look Air for space and they said that they had nothing to do with it. I mean, there was

just absolutely no answer. Right now, it's still a mystery. And what's really interesting, yesterday we had Navajo rangers at our post documentary screening presentation who was describing that just recently in January January twenty first, it was a Saturday evening, a mother and daughter were driving in the Navajo Nation and saw what they described as a string like a pearl necklace of lights across which suddenly in large did you hear them talk him talking about that, yes, yes,

enlarge, three stories and they were like flashing lights in what seemed to be windows. And actually the daughter tried to take a picture of it, and her camera, which was fully her battery was full, actually went dead and she couldn't take a picture of it. And suddenly there was a big flash and she saw that They both saw that there was a black domed craft hovering there for a few minutes and then it disappeared. So you know, that

just happened recently on the Navel Nation, which is interesting. And also I was speaking to Steve Blonder today. You know there's four of us that captured video around ten o'clock two videos or before ten o'clock. My video of the three points of light, which are the end points of a giant vay or triangle, and Steve Blonder actually was seeing them as I was for days before,

these orbs in different formations. And he actually saw on March tenth a flash of light just like this new flash of light, and he was describing that to me today. And he actually called mouf on up to his roof on the night of March thirteenth, and a group was standing there, Bill Hamilton and Tom King and a couple other people when they happened to see this massive formation of lights and it actually his video looks like an arrowhead. It's

really unusual. And when you look at the data, it speaks for itself. Those lights seemed to be attached to something or there's a force field holding them rock solid. And you would hear that over and over and over again on March thirteenth, for anybody that doesn't not familiar with what happened here fifteen

years ago. Tomorrow, while thousands of people were looking up at the sky for a glimpse of the Helpbob Comet, they also caught a glimpse of a mile to two mile wide formation, the formation of these orbs, these bulls of light that seemed to be attached to something many people would described that or craft. Actually, there were many events happening for many, many hours. We have reports as early as three pm in the afternoon daylight sighting of these

objects to five point thirty. It was seen in New Mexico by Native Americans seven point fifteen in California eleven thirty by an aircraft. A crew, a commercial crew and one hundred and forty passengers saw this mile wide formation of lights v formation over Las Vegas, covering all of Las Vegas. And that's a very interesting story. In fact, I tell more of it in my book, which was really interesting. You might find this amusing because they didn't know

what it was. I mean, they see this thing hovering over Las Vegas, and they were alarmed, and they called the radar, the closest radar station to report it. And suddenly another airlines pilot call in and he was all frantic because it was real close to him. And suddenly there was a strange voice on the intercom saying, you tell me exactly what you're seeing right now, and just very authoritative and freaked them out a little bit, and they backed off and said, you know, we don't see it anymore.

We must be mistaken. They were a little bit trazen by this new voice that came on the intercom, and they continued towards California from Phoenix, by the way, and as they were about a half hour outside of California, suddenly they see this big ball of light like about a mile away, and they looked at it and realized that it was a flare. And suddenly, on the opposite side of the of their craft, there just with afterburners on,

was a military jet coming very close to them. In fact, one of the pilots said that, you know, they jumped out of their seat, it was that close. They could not believe that they came that close, and in their estimate, they felt that somebody was warning them not to say anything. I mean, they were really freaked by that. And when they landed, they called their spouses and said, don't open the door, don't answer the phone, just you know, I'll talk to you later about

what has happened. I mean, they were really freaked by that. Very telling in and of itself. And then we have the report at three am in the afternoon from an alleged crewman trum Luke Air Force Base, who we

all recorded very detailed. We have had a documentary yesterday part of it, and it's also in the book of this crewman who called Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center and reported that a mile wide object was hovering over Seventh Avenue and Indian School right in the middle of Phoenix, right in central Phoenix about eight twenty eight thirty in the evening, and military jets were sent out to intercept or get gun, camera, film, whatever, And as they

got close about a mile away, the instrumentation in their cockpit went haywire, and as they got closer, the object just blinked out and disappeared. And this crewman said that he actually helped one of the pilots out of his own aircraft because he was so shaken up by it. So there were many things happening. And I also had a report by the way from a Boeing crewman who was coming into work at five point thirty the next morning and this object,

one of the objects, was hovering right over their tarmac. So there were many, many things happening for many hours throughout the entire state. It wasn't just Phoenix. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, there were so many people that had witnessed these lights, that this story doesn't go away. I mean, it doesn't seem as though the buzz around the Phoenix Sights has really died down much. Especially it's kind of been really neat to see at

least the local media picking this up. And it's not like they really have to tell a lot of backstory because people know what the Phoenix Lights are here in Phoenix, and the media has been very positive this last week covering this anniversary. They've been amazing, they really have. I applaud them. They've

really stepped up to the plate. And I have to say it's personally been cultivating that through the years because when I came forward Alejandro in two thousand and four, and I stayed anonymous for seven years looking for a logical explanation for what I had witnessed and photographs up close and personal two years before the mass sighting, and I have pictures that today cannot be explained or denied, and they're really pretty spectacular of these orbs that were close to our home and the

same exact object. If you look at those pictures on our website, the Phoenix Lights dot Net, you have a link on your page to that and go to the photo page. You'll see that the same exact phenomena is in the background in the same exact location as would also have and I would also capture pictures. Two months before the mass sighting, I actually caught this phenomenon, this mild wide formation of lights equidistant from each other head on turning into

a V shape, and it was so unnerving. I got six pictures in a row of it. And actually the second picture is pretty dramatic because if you look at it, it's five lights and the center one is the brightest, and it looks like there was two underneath it. Well. On March thirteenth, two months later, thousands of people would describe seeing either a craft

or these lights that seemed to be attached to something. Five lights in a V formation with two trailings, and my second picture two months before is exactly of that. But at any rate, it was so unnerving this sighting two months before the mass sighting that I called around found air traffic controllers the next morning at Sky Harbor International Airport who saw the same thing at the same time. In fact, they were a bit alarmed because it was about one thousand

feet altitude and class be restricted airspace. There was about a thirty mile radius around the center of the airport. Or anyone that comes into that airspace, particularly a thousand feet altitude, must call into the tower, and no one did. So they looked on their radar, did not show up on radar, picked up their binoculars to look, and they described them as six points of light totally equidistant from each other, massive span that turned against the wind.

And I happened to catch pictures exactly at that time, and one of them was a meteorologist, so he really was very verse and all this, and after it turned, they said that it moved as a unit right upwards and then over South Mountain. And when I said, so, what was it? There was silence, and then finally one of them said it's me. I said, you're an air traffic control you're supposed to those It was in our airspace and you didn't know what it was. And it absolutely was

not flares. It wasn't any anything known to them, and they're skywatchers, and we kept in contact. You'd photographing these things up into an including March thirteenth, and going back to the video, I actually saw one light appear

about eight twenty or so, and that's when the first official call. And you have to understand, I mean, as I mentioned earlier, this is happening for many hours, but most people were outside after it got dark about eight o'clock or so, and we're looking up at the sky at the Hilpop comet or out and about doing whatever they were doing. And so that's when the bulk of people were outside between eight and ten, so the bulk of

the calls obviously or at that point. But about eight twenty I see one loan light far north and that that was the first call, the first official call from a police officer officer, a retired police officer in pauled In, Arizona, up north, and then as it traveled down. In fact, we have a nine to one to one police operator. She was wonderful in the documentary. Who came up to me a couple of years ago after her presentation, is that I I heard that the police said that they only got

a few calls on March thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven. I said, well, that's what they said, and I said, and she says to me, well, I just retired and I was on that night as a police Phoenix Police operator and I won one operator, and if you want to know the true story, I'm ready to tell it. And I say, you kidding me. Meanwhile, she's fabulous. She's in the documentary and she one

of the objects that came straight through Phoenix. I mean she was getting calls as it was coming down and going from north to south, and it's so intriguing to hear her tell how the people were just so in awe and so excited and you know, wanted to know what was going on. But there was no historia, no, no one was frightened. In fact, that that in itself was very telling because in fifteen years there has not been one, not one report of harm, threat or abduction with the Phoenix Lights.

That we might get back to that if we have time. But quite the contrary, as we talked about yesterday, people were just very touched, I mean deeply touched, and as you just mentioned, till today, and not only that, the media has really come on board as well and taking this

very seriously. But anyway, about a little after nine o'clock, I saw one loan light for our south, which computes because that's when people were seeing these objects down south and then right before ten o'clock, about ten to ten, when they do the ads for the upcoming news, suddenly I see the six flights pop up again, just like two months before. My husband does too. He just grabbed the camera and I grabbed. I got up.

We were already in bed, and I got because we lived pretty high on a mountain in Paris Valley and have a panoramic view of the city skyline, so we know what planes and helicopters and streetlights and car lights and even flares occasionally look like very different from the unknowns. And when these popped up, I just jumped to attention and grab my camera. After I got my robe on and it wouldn't focus, and I finally get it out there and the

six had turned to three. And that's the video that I got. And about the same time is when Steve Blander and his group got his their video. About fifteen twenty minutes later, about ten after ten or so is when the two boomerang videos were captured, and one of them I have to admit I have never used in any production because it does look a little haphazard, which happens with flares. I mean, flares have a special kind of characteristic.

I mean, they cannot keep exformation, They drift and drop with the wind haphazardly and in minutes, and they have huge smoke trails that are illuminated by the flare itself. And not one person, I have to tell you, are not one person till today, and I'm pretty intimately involved with the investigation, has described any of that. If anything, it's quite the contrary. And the other boo the other boomerang is really impressive, I have to

tell you. I mean, even though it's been under fire for being flares, I mean, just look at it. I mean, those lights are so lock solid and equidistant from each other. But you know, people can decide for themselves from the data. But that's the only explanation, by the way, that ever came forward was that the Phoenix slights were flares. And when I came forward in two thousand and four, it was very frustrating because those of us who saw the real deal knew that the Phoenix lights were not

flares inside, and that's what the people in the public don't realize. I mean, I've seen the flares and they are very impressive now that I live out Maracopa, because they do it so often. But what people don't realize is people saw this going over their head and they saw these reports came from Needles all the way up north, all the way down to Tucson. It was tracked and then like that was great, the nine to one to one women. You have it in your documentary because she talks about, you know,

all parts of town and these things going over their heads. I mean, these descriptions are certainly not flairs flares. They don't drop them, you know, north of town and they float, you know, all the way. Oh well, that's the point. You make such a great point.

I mean here, you know, first of all, there was no investigation, no explanation at all for months, and when you look how the puzzle pieces fit together, it is so clear that they had to come up with something because until the USA Today article came out on June eighteenth, nineteen ninety

seven, there was not a peep. In fact, Councilwoman Francis Barwood, who spoke yesterday she was wonderful, was the only elected official who spoke up innocently, and she didn't see it, but her constituents called her and asked her, why isn't their investigation as you said, it went over people's heads. I mean people very low altitude. Some people said it was rooftop altitude, and they were looking up in these giant wells of swimming gassest light.

I mean, it was just extraordinary what they were seeing out of this world type thing, and yet there was no investigation. And she innocently asked them, may in may you know if they could look into it, and she was playastered to the wall. I was so glad. I stayed anonymous actually for seven years, but at that point, when I saw what was happening

to other people who came forward, it wasn't pretty. And then the USA Today article came out June eighteenth, And this is really significant because when you look at the data and you see how the timing of this. The very next day and just as this burst of light went viral overnight, the same thing happened when the USA Today article came out, I'm talking overnight. It was unbelievable worldwide. We were deluged by media from all over the world.

And when they started talking to the witnesses, as you just said, their descriptions were so detailed and so heartfelt. That day two were saying why isn't there an investigation? Why isn't there an explanation? And that very next day, late morning, there was an announcement by the former governor Simon that he was calling a press conference in the afternoon, an unscheduled press conference to reveal

the culprit of the Phoenix lights. All of a sudden they found the culprit okay, the day after the USA the racle without a peep before then, and he comes marching out one of his aids with a giant alien head off. Anybody who seeing that on TV, I have to tell you it offended a lot of people, especially Aarons who were with kids that you know, I mean, they couldn't believe that he made a joke out of it when they were taking it very seriously. And you know, that's it was what

it was. And about a month later I get a call and I had checked around, really tried to do my homework or not only took my thirty five millimeter pictures to great lengths to find a logical explanation. At the University of Arizona Optical Science Department and Conscience of Study Department, and ASU Geology, Anthropology, Mathematics, and astronomy departments as well as they were now Brooke Institute of Photography and Navy optical physicist doctor Bruce mcabean across the board. Nobody could

give me an answer to what these were. They could tell me what they were, but they couldn't tell me what they were. And in the meantime, you know here, I called every military base too, and they were more interested in seeing my data than giving an explanation for it. They didn't know either. I have some of their conversations in my books. It's quite

comical. I mean, they were just curious as everybody else. And suddenly I get a call about a month after the USA Today article, actually July twenty fourth, from one of the heads of pr at the Air National Guard and she says, oh, doctor Lynn, I think we know what those lights were back in March. And I said you do, And I was looking for any logical explanation and she says, oh, do you believe that

nobody ever looked at the log for visiting Air National Guard? And the Maryland Air National Guard was in town sending off flares and Operation Snowbird, which I came to learn means diversionary tactical maneuvers in military terms, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if they were sending off flares to divert people attention away from the unknowns. But again, there's not one person that has told me characteristics of

flares. But anyway, I said to her, when we're the Marilnair and Ashibar in town, she says, March first to the fifteenth, I said, with a in town in January, she says, oh no, I said, are you sure she's absolutely they were not here. I said, well, I have thirty five millimeters pictures of the same exact phenomena in the same exact location, confirmed the next morning by air traffic controllers as hovering over

class BE restricted airspace one thousand feet altitude. She says, Univer told me that, and then I said, I'm besides that you're trying to say that it's flares. And by then I had educated myself to what flares do,

especially military illumination flares. It flares that cannot keep reformation, that drift and drop haphazardly with the wind in minutes, have huge smoke trails illuminated by the flare, and the flare illuminates the area around it, not this square by one person actually traverse the entire state for many hours in a rock solid, equidistant V formation mile wide. She said, I have a call coming in. I'll get back to you. Well, I'm still waiting s fifteen years

tomorrow. Now, I want to get into a couple of things that you've talked about, some cool stuff, including Francis Barwood. You talked about her for a minute, how she was a city councilwoman and she was approached in May by the media about the Phoenix Light several months after it was done,

and she didn't know much and she went into to investigate that. If you could talk a little bit about that, And I thought it was interesting what you shared yesterday, how it was kind of her effort that helped to get you kind of moving towards talking about your experiences yourself. Well, yeah,

I mean I had to tell you. I mean, she was so brave to you know, and I don't think she knew what she was getting herself into initially, but certainly once this is out of the bag, and she really was ridiculed, I mean, with jokes made in the paper and all

this, and I felt really bad for her. I mean here, I had data that I kept private for you know, a bunch of it I let out and the only person that I had met, actual people that I had met, was Jim Delatoso and Michael Tanner and Village Laves and asked them to please keep my anonymity while we're researching this. I mean, I wanted

to make sure what I had wasn't a hoax or military or whatever. But I wanted to do my homework and they were so kind of For seven years they kept my identity or the identity of what they called doctor X, private, and Doctor X was the person that let out the video and pictures and so forth, which I was happy to do. It wasn't about me,

It was about the data. People could see what we saw. I was very happy to share it, and I wanted to share it with her too, And I gave her a call and I said, I just wanted you to know that you know, we're analyzing data here that's very real and cannot be explained, and I just want you to know that you know I'm behind you all the way, and that you know we really need to meet, which we did, and actually I had I had also documented I'm telling you

when I found out that a thousand people, a thousand, thousands of people I had seen what I had seen on March thirteenth and was documenting for the two year period. And then a week later and I had given my my video already to an investigator, I walked in. I mean, it's very, very a lot of serendipitous things if you want to hear them. I mentioned yesterday, six months before the mass sighting, which was very a very

interesting aside. I was invited to present my substance abuse prevention education program. I've dedicated my life's work as a medical doctor not only in private practice,

but the community education of the reality of lital health issues. And I have an age and Team pregnancy and subst abuse prevention education program for schools district by Discovery Education that I thought oblige once I educated myself to this because I knew nothing about this topic at all before we had our closed sighting, and certainly when thousands of people saw what I saw, I wanted to educate myself.

And about six months before the mass sighting, I was asked to present my substance abuse program at the Heel of River Indian Reservation, which is in between. It's the basin in between South Mountain and the Estraya mountain range. And if you go on the Phoenix Flights Network website to the Soto page, you'll

see my unique collection of the Phoenix lights. But the first picture shows the topography and you can see that there is an area where South Mountain and the Austraya Mountain range intersect, and not basin in between is the Austraya is the heel of Bend in the Indian Reservation. And I presented to them and after the Mas sighting, I started noticing that the propos undrance of my photographs was showing that these phenomena were popping up right in that area where South Mountain and

the Austra austray Is intersect. And I thought maybe they saw something on March thirteenth. So I called them up and I said, did anybody see any strange lights on March thirteenth? And they said, are you kidding? And they started giggling, and I said, is that funny? They said, We've been looking up at them for centuries. We called them skyful light beings. I had no idea that not only did they see them above their heads

on March thirteenth, but it's part of their culture. In fact, the Hope right here in Arizona have protocols to invite these intelligences in and they believe that there are other intelligences out there, other dimensions and so forth it come and visit them, particularly these orbs something or ancestors that come to give them comfort and peace and motivation and inspiration. It's so fascinating when you look at that side of this. In fact, worldwide, indigenous peoples believe that there

are other intelligence for centuries. And by the way, the Estrays got its name from the spin Spantish word for star because of the history of the area. And there's Petroglyss. There's actually Petroglyss on South Mountain that look exactly like the triangle the pyramid of orbs that my husband and I saw right outside our

bedroom window. It was uncanny when I first saw that. It was like really bizarre, and these triangle formations of orbs and what I took on March thirteenth, what I caught on video the three lights and a v formation. At any rate, they also feel that the estrays are a gateway to the stars and that there is a gateway or portal in that very area. And again, if you just look at my data, it might be so,

it might be so right. And I get to drive past those every every day, actually twice a day, and I get to watch like knights, like tonight, the scent they go down behind them, which is always really nice, beautiful. Speaking of the Native Americans, you touched on this a little bit, but it was really cool that you had a couple of these guys last night at your presentation, the Navajo Nation Rangers, and these are

law enforcement, the Navajo Law Enforcement Agency, and it's really cool. There's a story recently in the news in the local CBS, but they have taken the whole paranormal very seriously. And these guys do investigations. I mean they not like the police who kind of ignore it. These guys go out there and investigate all types of paranormal, including UFOs, And like you said, those flashes of lights that they had, they do. I mean, I

was so impressed when I first was introducing them. Actually, they came up to me at the International UFO Congress and last year, and you know, it said to me that they had some information about the Phoenix lights and they wanted to share some uh some other information with me, which I was. I felt so honored that they would really, you know, be forthright and

and talk about this. And they've actually joined forces with Muffon Mutual UFO network in studying these phenomenon, really doing a top notch job of investigating with equipment and really taking witness testimony very seriously and not not a haranganation. And there is so much going on up there. I mean, there was even a sighting the day before our mass sighting up there. Now Steve Blonder and I were both photographing these things for days before, but there was actually a big

sighting up there. He described it yesterday, where the whole town went outside, turned off their house lights and turned off as many lights as they could, went out with their launch chairs and was watching these lights dancing around the sky in a counterclock wife information for about a half an hour. I mean, there was there was, you know, and they thought that would be big news, and then it was eclipsed by by the mass sighting the next

day. But there was there's activity going on up there all the time. And you mentioned, by the way, the sunsets are so beautiful here. If you go to the photo page. The last two pictures are of sunsets because I collect sunsets. That's why I had my camera on the ready, right right by the by the door on when I first started photographing these things,

because we do have such beautiful sunsets. And in two different roles, in two different months, November and December of two thousand, I caught an object that I did not see when I was looking at the sunset, but it's very unusual, and it's in the same spot in both pictures. It's a rod shaped or cigar shaped object masses, and I've had it all analyzed.

And you've probably heard about sightings over as Superstition Mountains and around about these areas of these cigar shaped craft then actually have orbs or discs coming out from them, and they've had that also happen up in the Navajo Nation. Yeah, those pictures are really cool, and like you said, they're on your website and the photos the last two and by this time, I mean prior to ninety seven or actually before that, because you had taken what photos in

nineteen ninety five. Prior to that, did you really think much about this subject? Nothing? I mean I'm telling I stayed away from it because of all the scary stories and movies and all that, and I address that in the documentary. I think that's really important for people to realize that we are so inundated with media scare tactics and Hollywood scare tactics. I mean, almost

every movie out there associated with ets or aliens or UFOs or whatever. And certainly they want to sell the movie and it's part of their business, but it instills in us a scared test scared, a fear of these unknowns, of these of these things you would think, okay. And what happened on March thirteenth, which is really interesting, is it six months before the mass sighting. You brought up a really good point because six months before the mass

sighting, the movie Independence Day came out. And when children, who interestingly were usually the first people to see in a family, this mass of formation coming of lights coming towards them or craft and there were multiple crafts too. I'll get to that in a minute, they were scared, and rightly so. It's just like what doctor Gary Schwartz says in the in the in the in the film, if you're scared of something and you see something you're afraid

of, how do you think you're going to react? And they have something up and down Independence Day? Independence Day. But as it got closer, and this is so interesting and I dare say important, as the object got closer, a calmness came over everyone, even adults, and a connect goodness to the object, to the phenomena that when it passed, the kids want to go running after it, and they wanted their parents to get in the car and drive as it was going away. I mean, that's that's a

transformation, a positive transformation in real time, which is so interesting. And that doesn't happen with flares or blimps or whatever, you know what I mean. Data it speaks for itself. It reminds me of like a giant whale shark or or a whale itself. How you know, even though they're gigantic and scary, we get this fascination and we can somehow identify that these are

are passive animals and that we don't have to fear it. And that's the kind of sense I get, you know, when like watching your documentary and when you go over that near documentary, is this this idea of these people not having fear, but more of a fascination and connection exactly, which is really really I don't know. To me, that was one of the most

interesting and again probably very important part of this whole thing. And I'm actually studying this with doctor Gary Schwartz, who's the head of the country of the Study Department of the University of Arizona. We're now doing a very important groundbreaking study on how the Phoenix sites affected people, both in real time and long term. And when you look at that data and you really see what's happened

to people, I mean you saw yesterday. I mean, people are still craving answers, People are still fascinated with the subject, want to learn more. I mean, look what it did for me. It diapers my entire medical career. Aside to try to find a logical explanation. I was a healthy skeptic. One must be open to things when you're a physician, of course, but up to today, I mean I'm still open to any logical

explanation. What's really interesting. And I have to tell you, the people either outside of the Phoenix are that weren't involved with this, and certainly those that didn't read my book have no idea that this happened three years after the fact, when many people were saying when they came out with that flair explanation, which by the way, has never been proven. Okay, but they

had to come up with something for the only hard evidence. There's only a handful of videos that from March thirteenth, and people asked me that all the time, why wasn't there anymore pictures than that? Well, first of all, not many people had cell phones to begin with, but they were huge that in ninety seven they did not have cameras in them, and you don't

go out and about carrying a camera with you. But those people that did try to take pictures, the object was so massive and blocked out the stories that the pictures didn't turn out. So what we ended up with was a handful of videos that were the only hard evidence that could be debunked because they, of course they could blow off people's stories and say they didn't know what you were looking at, it was a mirage, it was guess whatever.

But they couldn't they couldn't deny that there were videos. And I have to say that the videos don't do it justice. In the videos, the lights are much smaller, they're flicker, they're white, but the formation they're really compelling. If you really look at the video, you can see these lights seem to be attached to something or they're a force field in between. So

anyway, that was the only hard evidence that they could debunk. And whoever thought of the flare thing was brilliant, I have to tell you, because they certainly in video could be mistaken for flares because they flicker and all that. But at any rate, after they came out with the explanation, we said, fine, if it's flares, do it again. Now I knew I had photographs thirty five millimeters. They can't be denied. There's negatives,

okay, prior to, during and after. We've had wonderful fightings after as well. And so whoever did it did it at least three times. Do it again. If it's military, I'm open to it again. Well, finally, right before the third anniversary. In fact, at that time, the former councilwoman Vice Mayor of Francis Barwood was running for Secretary of State on a platform to get answers for the Phoenix lights, and one of the things

she was really pushing for was a reenactment. Okay, And finally they announced publicly big time the three Air National Guards I believe it was California, New York and Michigan. We're going to be sending off flares to show everybody the Phoenix Lights. And everybody was open to it. Everybody was ready with their cameras. And I have to tell you all you have to do is look

at the footage. It was a joke. If you go on the news page on the Phoenix Flights Dot network, on the Phoenix Lights network, you go to the news page, I think it's a second column down the first block that you see, it's his Asy Family three. A wonderful report done by Jason Banneker there who shows the flare footage that they deployed and they tried to make a triangle. It was upside down, it fell apart immediately and

had huge smoke trails. Nothing, nothing like the Phoenix Flights is true unknowns. And when they did that flare deployment, I had to say, more than anything that proved to the witnesses, including myself, that what we saw and certainly what I documented on film was definitely not flares. So to this day, the Phoenix flights have never been re enacted, and interestingly too right before the tenth anniversary, because we're pretty high and we do see flares deployed

occasionally. There was a line of flares deployed and I could tell in a heartbeat, because I have a trained eye now that they were flares. I mean they started going haphazardly within seconds, and through the viewfinder on my camera you could see that they were smoke trails immediately. And the next morning I got calls from all the saying, doctor Lindn did you see the sighting last night. We're getting so many calls about this sighting last night, And I

said, don't get so excited. It was flares, but this is a perfect opportunity to let the public know the difference between flares and the true unknowns. And they did do a report that was terrific. So Scott Davis is you know, he's been so supportive And I had to say through the years when I first came forward in two thousand and four, and I have to applaud the media here. I mean, they've just been incredible. When I first came forward, I had done health reporting in the early eighties, actually

in the seventies for NBC in Philadelphia, Philadelphia with Jessica Savage. But I did health reporting here in the eighties and Channel twelve NBC here, and some of the people that were working there that I got friendly with, were just starting out. And when I came forward in two thousand and four, which was many years later, they were now, you know, the head of

the news department or head of production or whatever. And when they found out that I was doctor, they were very excited because they knew, you know, I'd already set the foundation of my credibility years back, and they knew I wouldn't have done this and I wouldn't have given up my medical career if I wasn't serious about this and there wasn't something to it. I mean,

this is this is not a joke. And they take it very seriously too, And I feel really blessed that they did take it seriously, and they've been so supportive and really helped to get the information out there. Because when I came forward in two thousand and four, after seven years of anonymity, and I had a seven hundred and fifty page journal by that time of incredibly

credible data. I mean, I know you're so well informed, Alejandro, that you know, you know that the history of this is since human documentation began, and even in Sumerian writings and in the Bible, and we have paintings in fifteen and sixteenth centuries with people on the ground looking up at the

skuy at what we would say as a UFO today. And certainly the food fighters in World War Two, which I was really impressed when I showed my close photographs to doctor Richard Haynes, who is very renowned in the field not only investigating pilot sightings thousands of pilot sightings of these sonomnomalies, but also the food fighters, and he said that they're just what the different sides were seeing during World War Two around their planes, and each side thought that these orbs

and rock solid formations of twos or threes were actually spy technology. And it wasn't until after the war that each side tried to study at Germany and Japan and the United States and found that nobody had been by technology, and they

called them food fighters at the time. And certainly we have a plethora of similar sightings from the Lublic Lights and Hutton Valley in the sixties as well as in the eighties and nineties UK and Belgium, and Belgium was so I mean when you look at what they did when they had their similar sightings, I mean they joined forces with the military and civilians and the university and government to

try to find out what these things were. I mean, they really joined forces, which is what should happen, don't you think Galahadra right, definitely kind of like we talked about a little earlier, and I know you you probably met him, but the Chilean general who runs the UFO group out there. Now one thing now that you're talking about multiple different craft at least in general, you know, a little known fact and something that you you've reviewed

is there were multiple craft sided during the Because that's really dramatic. I mean, I have to tell you that blew me away when I found out because from a twelve year compilation of hundreds and hundreds of reports in the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington and village Labs Arizona, MoveOn and France as Barwood, Michael Tanner and investigator Bill Hamilton compiled similar craft that people were describing,

that multiple people were describing seeing throughout the state and Larry Lowe beautifully illustrated them in what we call gap page on the website, the Phoenix Sites Network website, which is geospatial animation project, to show that there were about eight or nine different craft that were traversing and some of them, Michael Tanner believes

there was a parade of different craft. Now, whether it was one craft that could morph into looking differently or a parade of different craft as Michael Tanner believes and others by the way, or it was a perspective from where the person was standing and just seeing them from a different angle, we may never know. But the fact is that some of them are so different from each

other. I mean, there's one that really blew me away. And I put on the cover of our latest edition of the Phoenix Flights documentary, which by the way, is one of a dozen International Film Festival wards, which an unheard of for a documentary, certainly one of the genre. We're so proud and we've worked so hard, and I really give Steve Lance, who

was my collaborator. I mean, you saw the documentary yesterday. He did such an incredible job of editing and music and filming, and I mean just it's been a labor of love for both of us, and I noticed he composed the music and the music was great. I didn't realize that before. Oh yeah, I mean he did such a contribution. He also did the website. I mean, the website is outstanding. If you get to our website. We really wanted to get something out there that was free, that

people could, you know, inspect on their own at their leisure. And there's so much data, and I keep saying that data speaks for itself. I just hope people look at it. And that's one of the reasons I came forward. After seven years. I condensed the seven hundred and fifty page journal into two hundred and thirty pages. The first book, The Phoenix Flights, a Skeptics that we sceptic discovery that we are not alone. And I've kept that book. I've just added to it in the past year, a

new chapter of new Sightings of Stephenville Sightings. In fact, I'm going to be speaking UH in May May nineteenth at the first Woman's UFO Symposium organized by Paula Harris, and I'm very excited about that. We have wonderful UH female speakers, Carol Rosin and Angeliae Joiner actually was the journalist who broke the story for the steven Villelites and some other wonderful people. I hope you look that

up because that should be a really yeah. We've had Paula on recently to talk about that, and also the host, the lady who's going to be the host, whose name will lose me right now, even though she's a friend, be really yeah, it's going to be really exciting. And uh, you know, men are in it too. We have the witnesses, uh, some of the male witnesses of Pilot that they saw these things very

similar to the phoenix sights by the way. They had verbs. They also had these shaped objects, and interestingly enough, the same thing happened there too. First, the military kept changing their story they weren't in the air, than they were in the air, and they started sending off flares for weeks afterwards to confuse the issue. It's interesting how they react to these things. But when I came forward in two thousand and four, and it was very precarious to do so, by the way, Alejandro, I mean, I

did a lot of soul searching. I did not want to come forward, but I know if I didn't the rest of the story would sit on a shelf, and there was so much more to the story, and they accepted, you know, the official and accepted for anybody but the witnesses, and

the investigator's explanation for the phoenix sights was that it was just flares. I mean, you can only imagine how frustrating that was for the witnesses and for myself personally that knew that there was so much more to the story, right, So, you know, I really, in good conscience, especially as an cater, couldn't stick what I had in the drawer, especially when I continued taking pictures of these things, and one of the pictures one of the

craft I was starting to say, I discovered that one month before our mass sighting, there was another mass slighting in Saint Petersburg, Russia, and one of the fellows. In fact, I just showed it that the International USO

Congress last month. The video that someone had captured is exactly like one of the craft of those eight or nine craft that they discovered people were seeing throughout the state here too on March thirteenth, So you know, these things have been around and interestingly, one of the other crafts, if you read the side notes split into another craft shot straight up. There was also a disgoyed shaped craft as well, So there were many many incidents happening, many a

novelies happening at the same time. It was really a parade throughout the state on March thirteenth, So you know, how can you keep that in a drawer? Right? We had to get this information out there, so I'm so happy that we did. And the media again has been so kind and really has has covered this quite professionally. And I think if people go on Facebook, the Phoenix Lights Network Facebook page, you'll see I've posted most of

the current reports and they're they're outstanding, I have to tell you. I mean, they really get into the subject and they really do a great job. So we're lucky here, aren't We all hadro to be definitely, and especially when the weather's like it is that has been But I wanted to ask you, and you talked about how it was frustrating and how you know, one of the things that prompted you to come out and talk was that you

saw people calling flares and other things. How did you fill then in two thousand and seven, when you talked about how Fice Simington and brought this guy out dressed like an a And when fIF Simington came out and said he had seen the Phoenix lights and he believed that they were huge and incredible, and he even believes that it was technology beyond what we can do, and that

they're extraterrestrial. How did you feel when that happened. Well, you know, he calls them otherworldly, and you would hear that over and over and over again from people throughout the state on March sixteenth, so you know, and I can certainly relate to that. I saw it up close and personally myself, and I really I have to say I was so pleased and so excited that he did come forward. I I you know, it's very courageous to get out there and to say that you saw something that is extraordinary.

And most things can be explained by the way, only a small percentage cannot. But just because they don't have the technology yet to definitively define what these things are, it doesn't mean they're not real. And when you see something that is so out of the realm of our reality, to you, it's

real. And as a physician, I know that there's millions of people worldwide that have had experiences that are real to them, even though maybe they could be explained, it's real to them, and it's important that we get this out in the open. And as you said, I mean the ridicule and

the snickering and the discrediting. It's enough already. It's enough already. And when people like the former governor come forward and actually admit that they've seen something that's otherworldly, it lends more credibility to the whole subject and the more credible people that come forward, And that was another reason that I had to come forward if I can be a credible voice, as precarious as it was and still is, coming forward with this information. It's so important that people just

have the facts out there if they care to look at them. It is a choice because you know some people, you know, everybody comes from a different background, from a different upbringing, from different belief system, and some people can't deal with this. Some people don't want to deal with it, and that's okay. That's okay if they need to feed into a flare explanation because it's logical and it gives them comfort, so be it. Everyone in

their own time. But now the information is out there, and we've come such a long way, and it's not just me, it's people like the Governor coming forward and like the Francis forward coming forward, and so many witnesses coming forward and sharing their stories that have really gotten this out there big time worldwide. And now with you know, the Internet and social networking and just these kinds of instances. I want to tell you that's too. I mean,

we talked about coincidences. It's it's very serendipitous, and call it what you will, or ironic or whatever, but the very I mean, this is planned months in advance April twenty second, two thousand and eight, for the release from Vanguard Cinema of our documentary, our first distribution, and it

was on a Tuesday. And I even said to the to the head of Vanguard, why on Tuesday, And he said, because it's it's good for the Blockbuster which was open at that time and other stores to be able to put the documentary DVD on their shelves on Monday, and they're ready to go

for Tuesday when it's released publicly. Right well, the very night before April twenty first, two thousand and eight, we had a big sighting here remember that one in the Northwest, right, Yeah, okay, of these of these orbs and different formation overnight, just like this flash of light overnight. The next morning, it was the top story on the Drudge Report. It

was uncanny, it was unbelievable. And people were, you know, equating that with the Phoenix Flights again, and it was out there on the Internet big time, equating it with the Phoenix flights. And I tell you, our documentary was flying off the shelves. It was unow it was such a

gift. It was such a gift. And even with this, with this new event that just happened, with the flash of light, the fact that it's so close to the anniversary, whatever it is, and this problem a prosaic explanation, although I have to tell you Steve Blander saw you know, the slash of light on March tenth, and the Navajo Nation saw it up there as well in January, so it could be something anomalist, and there is still no explanation at this point, but it doesn't matter the fact that

it happened, and as being equated worldwide, I mean, this has going really viral with the Phoenix Lights fifteenth anniversary is really exciting. I mean, it's amazing. Yeah, And you know, at least I always feel and maybe we're looking for it, but I don't think so that the most important projects that we work on, that we really put our heart into, there always seems to be serendipitous happenings around them. It's amazing. I think that's

what I felt through my life. Well, when you open, like, you bring up a really good point, Alejandra, because one of the things, and my book is so much more than just the phoenix flights, by the way, because as I was interviewing different witnesses, and I don't even address this in the documentary. The documentary is an overview of the whole topic. But this is something else that I go into in the book is that there were a number of witnesses who shared that they had had near death experiences

as children that was reawakened by the mass sighting. And I found that really curious because I did too, and I go into detail of that a very profound and life changing experience when I was eight years old, near death experience, and I thought, jeez, could there possibly be a connection between all unexplained phenomena? And here when I started looking again, I started finding such credible data. There was a very, very detailed study done at the University

of Connecticut called the Omega Project by doctor Kenneth Ringham. In the book is like four inches stick. I couldn't even go through it, but it really establishes the fact, along with many other professors across the United States, that explained phenomena, be it near death experience, out of body experience, or unexplained aerial phenomena that have a mystical light associated with the experience are very similar, not only in the experience itself, with feeling the time has stopped that

there's other kinds of intelligence is there along with you. I mean I lay it out very simply in the book, and there's many more details. But the thing that really hit me, and once you start waking up to this is the positive after effect. I mean, you saw other people yesterday. I mean, everybody gets so excited and it's just it's just an experience, just to be together with like people that have had similar experiences. The after

effect is so positive. The awakening, the enlightenment, whatever you want to call it, the connectedness that one feels when you have an unexplained phenomena experience, whatever it is, and I started calling them all ups because they are they are so positive, there are so they change your worldview to know that we're not alone in this universe, that we're connected to the universe and to the Earth and to each other so much more intimately than we ever imagined,

and all these unexplained phenomenon As you look into the literature of near death experiences as well as contact ees et cetera that have these unexplained phenomenon experiences have this positive after effect that that stays with them forever, and many of them not only like myself when to get to the bottom of it, but also know that we're not alone in the universe and also know that with their eyes open, that there's so much more that we haven't learned yet, and that we're

just we're just in our infancy. Actually we're probably just getting out of our husbands, starting to mature, and our DNA is changing at a rapid speed, and our consciousness is changing as well. To let us know that there is so much more out there, so much more of a reality, and even in ourselves, we have so much capability, so much more capability, the more being told, and we know we only use a small percentage of our brain anyway, but you know, when you're talking about consciousness and really

evolving our consciousness. That's why I think it's so important to get this topic out in the open and address it, accept it, and study it, get science on this so that we can move forward and not only find out who's driving these things, but also move forward in our own evolution. And when you wake up to this, like you said, you start noticing serendipities, you start noticing and being open. It's just like you know, now I'm sharing for the first time, and I don't know if you're even aware

of this, Halla Hunter. But in the new edition of the book, and I never thought I would ever share this data, but doctor Bruce mcabee analyzed my very close sighting in ninety five, the first and the last picture, and I won't get into detail all that people enjoy it in the book, but he actually presented the case because we thought it was only a few minutes, but the pictures speak for themselves, and he did a very detailed study of the skyline in those pictures, and there's many lights on in the

first picture, groups of lights that are off in the last picture, and when he finally analyzed it, he said, could I present this case at the Muffin International Symposium in nineteen ninety nine, and I, you know, I said, hey, doctor mcavee, I would have never noticed this detail, and this is your baby. Go, you know, do whatever you think is appropriate, just keep my name out of it, which he did, and he presented it as the first authenticated photographic evidence ever of missing time.

Now this was his whole report, by the way, the twenty one page report is on the website. And I couldn't wrap my head around it. I had no idea what he was talking about. I couldn't even go there because what I remember is my husband calling me to the window. We saw three orbs and a pyramid information went on top and too closely aligned underneath. I tried to take everything in Mentally, I didn't want to move. You would hear that from a lot of people that have sightings. They just,

you know, don't want to budget. They just try to take everything in, and that's what I tried to do. They were about three to six feet each, depending on how close they were. They were oval shaped actually on their side, very closely aligned. The amber color within each orb, and I called them an orb because the light did not extend outside the edge was an amber color throughout. It didn't glare at all. It didn't have like a hot spot in the center with a uniform color, and every

other laid out there glared. And I thought, if I don't get a picture of this, nobody's gonna believe it. So I run to the closet to get my camera that I have ready for sunsets, and my husband calls me back. He says, get over here quick. One of them is disappearing. And as we watch, and this is really significant a one hundred because I always go back to this sighting as we watch, and these were

pretty close. They were about one hundre feet away, and they were below us because we're pretty high on the mountain, and they were on top of a gated you know, it's residents behind their home. It was very treacherous incline. And as we watched, the top orb without budging, started to

dim. But it was more like it's very hard to explain, more like an imploding very very slowly, like mechanically like it there was an intelligence behind it, and very very slowly until it was a small dot and then out, but it felt like it was still there. Where did it go? Okay, maybe to another dimension. I don't know, I get you know, you just can't even imagine such a thing happening. But it felt like

it was still there, but we didn't see it anymore. I stepped out on the balcony and immediately noticed, in eerie silence, I click a picture of the two lower orbs, and that's the second picture on the photo. Okay, so that's the first picture of the close sighting that I took. And it was really eerie. I mean it was if time had stopped. There was not a sound, and as intently as I was looking at these two lower orbs, it felt like something was watching me and going through my

head. And I didn't admit this to anyone. In fact, Jim Deltosa was the first person I admitted it to after the mass sighting a couple of years later. Going through my mind, I was thinking, who are you? What are you? Do you know that I'm here? I'd love to meet you. And the next thing I remember, the left bottom warp started to disappear, and I quickly shot a picture of that, and that was the only one that turned out at the time, but for me it was

confirmation that we did see something unusual. I caught one of them half disappeared. I mean, you can see it. It's right there. Dada speaks for itself, and one's still there. And I didn't even know who to show it to. And you know, I wondered for two years what this advanced technology was doing outside our bedroom window. And that's about all that I remember. I vaguely remember the last one going out. I do not remember going inside or going to bed that night. I just don't remember. But

at any rate, he presents the case in nineteen ninety nine. I was never going to tell a soul about it. I never mentioned it in the first book or the second edition. I mean, I just couldn't go there because it's just so bizarre, and you know, I just didn't even want to go there. But this last latest edition, I thought, you know what, finally quantum physics and quantum mechanics is catching up. Not only is

our time linear time probably primitive, And maybe this stat is important. You know, I don't believe in coincidence anymore, I have to tell you, so maybe I have this data for a reason. And you know, if it's to show that linear time is primitive, the past president in the future is not really what time is. Or you know when we talk about in quantum physics now the bubble theory and string theory that there could be ten or

eleven different dimensions. Well, if there's other time and spaces along with ours, why is it such a leap to think that there might be other intelligences in those other times in spaces that we get glimpses of, if we're open to them or invited. And that's why I'm sharing that information now. It's

data that hopefully science will take a look at. I welcome it, I invite them, and maybe it'll help us move forward, as I said, in our own evolution, and realize that the time isn't what we really think it is, and that we are being visited, whether it's interstellar time travelers, spiral world, interdimensional, which I do believe that whatever happened to us

here is interdimensional. And that's why sometimes we see them and sometimes they disappear, and in those sunset shots, why I didn't see them when this long rod cigar shape thing when I was taking the picture, But it's there in the same spot in two different roles, in two different moods, right, So you have to take that onto consideration and hopefully the data will help move this forward a little bit. So that's why I'm sharing it now. But

yes, I do not believe in coincidence anymore. So you know, once you get to that point, your eyes are open and your mind and your heart is open to what comes before you. You know, you start experiencing things that that are very soreendipitous, and you know, you start taking note of it. I think it's it's fun. Now. I know you've got your you've got to run, So I guess I'll make this my last question, but it would be, is that what you think the sightings are about?

Why they kind of open themselves or displayed themselves in a way that's practically unprecedented to a large group like Phoenix to open our eyes in the similar ways that people experience and their near death experiences. I think that's that's what it's about. I think that not only and I'm open to anything, by the way. I mean, like I said, I'm a healthy skeptic, and you know, somebody showed me these things and said their military shame on them

for doing it over people's heads and not admitting it. But I'm open. But I have to say, when you really look at the after effect and even the effect in real time as we described earlier, you know, something really happened here, and it's happening worldwide. These phenomena are touching one person at the time, and that's why I hope my book and my documentary you do too. And now I'm working on a curriculum for kids fifth grade through

twelfth grade to really an overview to help kids learn and grow. They thirst for this knowledge. There's nothing in our schools, so I'm working on that now. I'll keep you posted on that one. But yeah, I think that whatever these phenomena are, whoever they are, wherever they're from, not only are they trying to wake us up in a very gentle and non threatening way. Again, there has not been one, not one report of harm,

threat or abduction association with the Phoenix Lights event. I can't speak for other things, but I can speak for the Phoenix Lights and not only are they waking us up to their presence, but also they're waking people up. And if you look at the data, it just shows it over and over again, and all you need to do is study the data. You don't even have to have the experience. But if you really open yourself up to study it and be open to the possibility, you can also have this positive

transformation what I call an up because that's what's happening to people. It has changed people's lives forever here, don't you think, Alejandra? For sure? I mean to have a large one of the largest populations in the country all have sharing common this extraordinary event that happened in nineteen ninety seven, and for it to be in the public's conscience to where if you say the phoenix lights

out here, they know what that is. And many people I was surprised to see how many people will share either a family member or themselves or them I mean, the first lady who cut my hair had had seen it and she called everybody when I bought my house that the sales guy, the customer service guy, had seen it and he knew of Travis Walton and he knew those people out there. So yeah, I think it's certainly changed the way people in this area, and people who hear about this their views on the

world right, well, they don't they don't laugh anymore. And the media here isn't laughing. It's not a joke. I mean, they're taking it seriously. And that's that's what needs to happen elsewhere. And we know other

countries are much more open to these phenomenas being unearthly. And you know, just the release of the files from UK and France and Belgium and Brazil and whatever the last few years is just indicative of how things are changing and becoming much more open to the possibility, the reality that we are being visited, whatever it is, by advanced technologies intelligences that are not of our world.

And you know, that's the main thing here and I think, you know, if I can leave, I can leave you with the message it's being given around the world too, is that these phenomena are waking people up. And it's not just contact, it's not just aerial phenomena. It's near death experience and other out of body experiences to wake up to what we're doing to

our planet and to ourselves before it's too late. And it's a consistent message when you read near death experience research, consistently, they're coming back with that same message. And many people here got that message. I have to tell you there were people that change their eating habits they don't need beat anymore, or they went into the peace movement or the environmental movement. It really wakes

people up to what's important. And we have such a beautiful planet, and we have such potential, positive potential as human beings to make this world a better world. And you know, that's what I hope and I want to believe that these phenomena are doing that, one person at a time, and people around the world now instead of thinking the Phoenix Lights were just merely illumination flares military illumination flares as they sit in two thousand and four when I came

forward. Now, when they see similar sightings, whether it's these orbs or a mile wide triangle or V shaped craft, they'll point and say, there's the Phoenix flights. Well, you know you can't get better than that, right. He'll raise awareness, And I appreciate you having me on today to raise awareness to your audience, because the Phoenix Lights is really a major major event in the minds and the hearts and the consciousness, not only here in

Arizona, but it's becoming that way worldwide. We see it now with what's happening with just this new flash of light, it's making most major news worldwide. So I hope that it continues and one day we find out who's driving these things. But in the meantime, keep looking up right. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. I know you're real busy, and you're you're going to be on Coast to Coast again tomorrow night, is that correct? I will at ten o'clock to celebrate

the fifteenth anniversary of the Phoenix Flights the Mass Hours. I'm in a mass lighting, very excited about that. I'll be talking with George Norri and we'll be getting into the rest of the story of the Phoenix Lights, because many people don't know. I mean a lot of people here locally, because they come to our event every year, are learning more and more of the inside

story. And I hope people pick up the latest edition of the book, The Phoenix Flights, a skeptics Discovery that we are not alone, and the documentary as well, and take a peek at the website. It's tacking interesting, intriguing information and thank you for letting me share it. Thank you, thank you so much. For being on the show. We'll talk to you soon, talk to you later. Bye bye. Now, oh right, well, that is the Phoenix Lights dot net is her website. That's where

you can go get the book and see the documentary. It's a great documentary. If you haven't seen it, you really need to, and trust me, it is one that is certainly worth purchasing because the number of witnesses, the credible witnesses that the actual descriptions of what they saw. Certainly people across

the state were not just seeing flair. So it's a great documentary that documents all of this, and it documents I think better than anything else Francis barr Wood and her experience as a city councilwoman actually championing the subject and trying to get answers for the citizens who were wondering what the heck did I see? And I think you know rightly so that the government ought to be interested in looking into it, so Francis Barwood being one of the only officials who actually

did something to try to figure it out. So definitely check out the documentary. Really, if you google Phoenix Lights, her link is one of the first that comes up. So it's great to have have her, especially on the twelfth when the anniversary is tomorrow, fifteenth anniversary of that incredible event. Thank you all so much for listening. We will have those gentlemen who served in the Navajo Nation rangers on soon. Actually I've known them for a while.

I don't know why I haven't gotten them on the show. I guess I know they're real busy guys, but we'll get them on soon to talk to them about their investigations in the Navajo Nation, which is very interesting. Some wonderful people. So it was great to see them again and we'll talk to them soon, So stay tuned. We will be back next week with more amazing news and UFO stories and I'm just so excited to talk to you every time. You people. Have a wonderful week. Audio got going, Cho Cho