Love hope. You welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is a UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Hello, it's Alejandro. And the kind gentleman who introduced me there, Bob Dean. I got to see him the other day because Richard Dolan was doing a talk in town. It was a great talk and it was a packed house. There was something like
probably one hundred and fifty people there. Awesome, and it's at this place called the Advanced Technology Institute or something, which is pretty cool. Great room and everything so great. A lot of cool people there, including Bob Dean you just heard right there, an interesting fella and a friend of ours who lives not too far away in our Tuki, a wonderful town to say the name of Hawatuki. So it was wonderful to see everybody again. And Phoenix
move On always does a great job. We have a great MoveOn group here. But unfortunately I have more bad news, and I hate having to bring the bad news to you. Although you might know this already because there's been emails all over We've had it all over our Facebook and everything. But unfortunately, just yesterday afternoon, Bud Hopkins, the famous alien abduction researcher, passed
away. So we have a bio on our website. There's some bios all over the place that you can check out, but our website we've got one and we've got links to others and so you can check out. I noticed there's a lot of people posting YouTube videos that they've had recently, and in fact, we're going to put one together because we found some footage we have that I don't think anybody's seen before, so we're going to put those up. So I think it's going to be better Hopkins month for the next month,
remembering all of his work, and he really was a pioneer. He wasn't the first alien abduction researcher, but he was the first to really bring it to the public as an artist. Now, first he wasn't doing regressions. I mean, he was just doing the investigation and writing about it. He got a lot of the people though that do do regressions these days,
into it. Doctor David Jacobs of Van Smith wrote something about him, said he was instrumental in getting her involved with that, and of course we've had her on the show and also John mack So, which was really cool because John MAXs, you know, was one of the most esteemed people in the field to investigate abductions. Whitley Streeber also he helped Whitley Streeber with his encounters and really helped facilitate that happen. So he was a big part of the
whole alien abduction phenomena, researching it and getting it going. He has a website, the Intruder's Foundation, which is a nonprofit that he started to help out alien updectees and to also educate the public on that. So of course there's a lot going on with Bud Hopkins and that you'll be able to check out, and that you know, our hearts go out to him and his
friends. Leslie Keen, Peter Robbins were very close to him for many years and I know that this is probably very difficult for them, So go check out the website, go to the Intruders Foundation and go, you know, send them your condolences and let them know that you care. Other things going on, We're going to have today a guest who is actually my very first guest of UFO Think Tank Radio. My friend, physicist Claude Swanson. He is. He got his degrees at MIT and at now I forget the other
school. I think it was Penn State. I'll have to look it up. I'll look it up for you guys. But anyway, he's worked at the Brookhaven Labs. He worked on a lot of government projects for defense and theoretical physics, so trying to figure out, you know, kind of the cutting edge stuff. And he's still doing that. However, he noticed that the paranormal when he looked into it, was not only really noticed, there
was a lot of scientific investigation and to various parts of the paranormal. So he thought, if this is something really going on, and physics is supposed to explain all of everything that goes on, He's really tackled with theoretical ideas on how to explain to paranormal through physics. So you know, you've allably heard a quantum physics, which is kind of the study of the smallest particles, but going even further than that and what's at the basis of everything.
So this is going to be a very interesting talk because we're going to talk about all of that and how it relates to UFO technology and some of the things that we see in the UFO field as well. So that's what's going on here on the show. One thing I do want to mention, just to plug myself, but to thank you all. First of all, think not just you all, but all of the people that we interview. You know, some people say why do you have that person on? And why
do you have this person on? But I think that we all need to be happy that there are people looking into the paranormal, that you all are brave enough to come and to listen, but also that all of these people, even if you don't agree with them, there's plenty of people that I like and I colleagues, and I don't believe exactly what they believe, but I think it's wonderful that they've been brave enough to put all the time and
the effort into actually researching the paranormal. So that's why we have such a wide range of of guests here, and I think we all need to appreciate that. And the reason I bring that up is because I kind of feel I'm excited about this new project. Essentially, we're blogging for the Huffington Post because it's conventional media, and it's exciting because they're posting my stuff on the paranormal up there and conventional media, and I feel like I can help champion
some of the work that all of these people do. And if you're interested in this stuff, you know, go check out my blog and comment on there and show people in the conventional media that there are a lot of people out here that take this stuff very seriously. And I hope to make arguments up there because it blogs our opinion, and my opinion is that a lot of this stuff should be taken seriously. So I'm trying to express that. But I'm real excited about that. So that's something to go check out.
But without further ado to get into it, because I know Jason's got a lot of cool stuff. Let's check out the ufone News. Jason is here to give it to us. You looked scared for a minute. You don't have any good stuff. I always have good stuff, I know, but don't hype it up too much, Okay, I don't want to let anyone down. Oh you always deliver, buddy, Thank you, sir. Greeting Zalahandro and hello everyone, Hello to all of our wonderful listeners and viewers out
there. Let's get into your UFO newsbree from Monday, August twenty second, twenty eleven. Researchers at Pennsylvania State University recently proposed a theory that suggests if extraterrestrials detected changes in Earth's atmosphere due to increased greenhouse gas emissions, they might attack humans to protect other civilizations from humanity's destructive actions. The thirty three page study, published in the journal Acta Astronautica, is titled would contact like Extraterrestrials
benefit or harm Humanity? A Scenario Analysis, and it evaluates the potential risks of a hostile extraterrestrial encounter. Space dot Com explains the most popular scenario presented in the paper, stating an extraterrestrial civilization might notice our planet by detecting changes in the spectral signature of Earth the light radiated by our planet and atmosphere caused
by greenhouse gas emissions, and they might frown upon our behavior. According to the International Business Times, media reports about this new study frightened some of the general public, with headlines like NASA report aliens may destroy humanity to protect other
civilizations and NASA aliens may destroy humanity over greenhouse gases. NASA was forced to quickly respond, clarifying that while one of the paper's authors, postdoctoral student Sean Domigol Goldman, works at NASA headquarters, NASA was in no way involved with
the study. NASA posted multiple messages on Twitter addressing the issue with statements like yes, Strudge Report and Guardian News are mistaken about alien report, it's not NASA research and again claims we released a study about aliens are not true. Going even further to clipped the confusion, NASA posted a link to Gomago Goldman's blog, where he too would address the confusion, stating, so here's the thing. This isn't a NASA report. It's not work funded by NASA,
nor is it work supported by NASA. In other ways, he was just a fun paper written by a few friends, one of whom who happens to have a NASA affiliation. Yeah, it's sad they get it wrong because they didn't have to even just saying that this is a student or these are students, and to write about some of this speculation is still enough of a story.
I mean, it's an interesting concept. It certainly is. You know that there are many ways the journalists could have done this, and you know, if you want to hype it up a bit, you can still mention NASA, but you know you need to clarify that it's a NASA researcher, not NASA is saying this. And you know, it's a theory that someone like Stanton Friedman and some of these others, even some of the SETI scientists, have been pushing for a while. I remember the conference in Russia,
the SETI conference. They were talking about it and the whole idea about how we are just kind of crazy, were screwing stuff up on our planet. So they would probably just kind of segregate us, watch us, contain us, and see how things go. But I would think that this isn't something new to him. If there really are a lot of civilizations out there, a ton of them, they probably ran across other civilizations at the point that
we're at, or they once themselves were at this point. So it's nothing too new, although I would see how they would be interested in checking it out. You know, oh, for sure, the science class, let's go look at a civilization at this point. Let's go look at a civilization at this point, right, fly around and take their notes. Those guys are funny. That's what they did on Star Trek. Yeah, exactly, flew around and watched people. They didn't They sometimes interfered, but they weren't
supposed to. They tried not to. But sometimes, you know, Captain Kirk's his passion, he would fall so deeply in love with a beautiful alien woman that he just couldn't help himself. Well, it goes without saying, yeah, I completely, but Alejandro, you know that this really rubs me the wrong way. I have. I have a strong distaste for this theme
of pushing the hostile extraterrestrial concept on people. That is all we hear about lately, all the television shows up, the specials they're putting on the Science Channel, Discovery. It's all about alien attacks, all the movies, but it's negative image and scaring people about extraterrestrial life. But it always comes back to economics, where a capital country, capitalist country, it's all about money.
It's just like the news is all about blood and gore. One rule of thumb, and the news has always been if it bleeds, it leads, and sure enough, that's what we see all the time, and so then it translates over to UFOs, over to every subject scare people, sharks, attack, bears, mall, you know everything, you know, puppies bite ah. I mean, so it's just all this scarce stuff because they feel it makes some money off of it. Yet it just makes money,
money, money, and that's all they care about. So I'm glad you provided me with a segue to the next story. Cool that is. One of the leading US economists says that an alien invasion could fix the troubled economy. There we go. Paul Krugman, new York columnist and Nobel Prize winner, presented this idea on the CNN show GPS, hosted by Freed Zakira.
Krugman stated, if we discovered the space aliens were planning to attack, and we needed a massive build up to encounter this space alien thread and inflation and budget deficits took secondary place to that this slump would be over in eighteen months. He credited the idea to an episode of the Twilight Zone where scientists baked and alien invasion to achieve world peace. But, as he explained, this time we needed in order to get some fiscal stimulus. Yeah, like I
was saying, it's already happening. All of these alien movies. Alien attack movies are getting lots of viewers, except for Cowboys and Aliens. I guess them too too good. But Paul's doing good on DVD some of these others, so it's working. It's making some money. Yeah, some of them
work. You know, a lot of these movies actually do well. But you know, like you said, Cowboys and Aliens and then like Mars Needs Mom, Yeah, I think they're too good disappointments and yeah, but the merps they got to be with alien you know, the little blue guys, they can I only count them as aliens. I too many little blue guys here, so they must be. Yeah. But to get back at least the story about the them trying to contain us or destroying us because we're destroying
the planet. I think that's closer at least to this whole idea I have that a lot of them are at least indifferent to us. I mean that they are kind of like like we would be with animals. We struggle with what should we do? Some of these animals are going out of control. Do we need to contain them? You know? Same kind of thing. So that may be like, you know, they're kind of pass So what
do we do with this whole thing? Has it posted to just it makes more sense than I think, coming and destroying just for the hell of it, right, But movies don't have to make sense alle hundro. Yeah, Good's true. Well. In other news, the UK National Archives released another batch of UFO files a couple weeks ago, and we talked about that, which marked the eighth batch of the formerly classified documents to be released to the
public. These latest files, like previous release files, indicate the government's lack of interest in investigating UFO, setting reports. At least that was the perception of the Ministry of Defense was trying to create. Nick Pope, who was the desk officer in charge of the mods UFO files, recently told the Huffington Post was abundantly clear from these files is that while in public, we were
desperately pushing the line that this was of no defense interest. But he goes on to state, we were telling the public we're not interested, this is all nonsense, but in reality we were desperately chasing our tails. And following this up in great detail, Pope divulged and insiders look at the government's game of misleading people. He revealed one tactic used with the downplay UFO reports by referring to witnesses as UFO buffs or UFO spotters to make them sound less credible.
They additionally used terms like little green men in reports to make the sighting seem silly, which would hopefully reduce the chance of the media picking up the story. When Pope was with the mod he too was required to go along with the policy of deception. He told the Huffington Post. I believe in open government and freedom of information. I believe that the UFO phenomenon does raise important defense, national security and air safety issues, and if I helped kill
any initiative on that, I'm deeply sorry. I spoke with Li Spiego wrote the Huffington Post story, and it was really funny because he helped organize the un thing we've had. Antonio On talked about that, Antonio's written about it in our magazine, and Les Spigo is the main kind of organizer putting all of that together, and he was shocked when he saw in the last batch how the UK really was trying to stifle his whole effort. There was Sir
Gary from Gerrit Carey from Grenada who was a real sponsor of it. So it's kind of funny that he was referred to in these files and stuff, and then he speaks with Nick Pope and Nick Bop apologizes for all of that, although he said Nick Pope did tell him even though I apologize, he can't really blame me because I was only a teenager when all of this happened. So, but of course it's stuff in the nineties he can't apologize for.
Because some of the files we even talked about and we have on our website, such as during the Ralph Noise era, he was the person who wrote those letters. We actually confirmed with him recently that he was one of those guys who wrote one of those letters saying, oh, you know, don't worry about it. Yeah, well, we have much more about that on our website. And our video producer just put together a video on this and you appear in the video alle hundra me. You do yes, and
you look like crap, But I'm kidding, you look fantastic. It's a fun video. So we have that. Because I didn't have my new glasses, I know, new glasses, so we'll have to reshoot the video. But the videos there, we've got articles there, so check that out on Open mindsot TV. And then there was a UFO that appeared on live TV. Whoa maybe. Viewers of Channel four News in London were surprised on August sixteenth when they observed the UFO zooming through the sky and in the background during
an interview with British politician Tom Watson. According to the Metro, viewers called the television station to report the strange object that appeared at the top of the screen before darting in a flash. The UFO is only visible for a couple of seconds and it is difficult to make out any physical details of the object. An airplane or helicopter have been suggested as possibilities, but the movement demonstrated
by the UFO and the video makes these explanations seem unlikely. A seagull or another bird gliding through the London sky could be the identity of the object in
question, but that is speculation on my part and others. The UFO remains unidentified and will likely remain so. One factor that makes identifying this particular UFO so challenging is that the channel for interview was most likely shot in front of a green screen with the London video backdrop digitally added to the video, meaning that the London scene with the UFO zooming through the frame was pre recorded, and unless the television station knows exactly when the London scene was recorded, the
option of contacting local air traffic controllers to see if there was any aircraft in the sky at that particular time, you don't have that luxury. But again, the object is most likely a bird. Yeah, it goes so fast, it's hard to tell. It's kind of a it's a neat video, that's for sure. But if it is something mundane, it's got to it'd probably be a bird, you know, diving because it's like it's die bombing.
Yeah, it's kind of cruising. It's not flapping at all, Right, it's just kind of diving, right, unless it's something health and it certainly could be. Yeah, we have no idea what it is. Who knows no idea. I've had an idea, but yeah we don't. And another UFO on video or UFOs, multiple UFOs in the sky your stance at Airport in Essex, England were captured on video by a motorist on his way to London. The incident allegedly occurred on July twenty ninth, just five days
before BBC journalist Mike Sewell reported a flying disc in the same area. The UFOs in the video are bright orbs with white light that shoot through the sky above the M eleven motorway at tremous, tremendous speeds, and according to the Sun, former Ministry of Defense UFO researcher and UFO expert Nick Pope said, assuming it's genuine, it's one of the most bizarre pieces of UFO footage I've seen in a long time. And I'm going to interrupt here and say,
I question whether or not they actually checked with Nick Pope on this. I think they went through their stock Nick Pope quotes, because I'm pretty sure that he said that a couple of months ago about a similar video or video, but about a video, because I know I've seen that quote before from Nick Pope and the questionable Oh yeah. But anyway, while the orbits of light seeing in this video can easily be created with video effects software, it doesn't
necessarily mean that this particular video is a hoax. But something else that sends up red flags with this video is the audio in the video, because if you listen to it, if you watch the video and listen with headphones on, you can tell that the audio in the left and right channels are completely different audio tracks. In the left channel, I believe you hear music which supposedly is coming from the car stereo, but you don't hear anything else.
It's just just move music. And in the right track, you hear the people in the car, a man and a woman freaking out about it. Oh, but you don't hear any music. Is there any chance to music was like a music overaly for effect? Or is it definitely attempting to seem like music from the radio. It's certainly not not background aut of that you'd put in unless you did it really crappily, because it sounds like there's ambient
noise. Yeah, and that the people, the people the vocal tracks, there's a lot of I don't know, it seems like there's a lot of reverb, reverb like they're in a room or something and kind of overacted. So I don't know. It's it's very suspicious. Yeah, that's very suspicious. You know, those are good points and you've worked in the music industry, and so that's why the International Business Times quoted to you as a an expert. It's a quotable opinion. Yeah. Well, all one hundred.
That is all the news I have for today. Everyone. Remember to check out all these stories we talked about and many many more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. I'm Jason McClellan. You're UFO News guy, and I have just briefed you. Back to you, Alejandro, Thank you, UFO news. Dude. Do you like dude or do you like guy? I like that guy. I like dude correspondent. We use often. I guess it depends on your mood and how much I've irritated you
throughout the day. That variety is good anyway, Absolutely, well, continue with the variety, my friend. All right, thank you very much, dude guy correspondent. All right. Some of the other stories that we have up here on the site, we did cover one of the more spectacular uk UFO files cases that's in there now. This is a case that we've known about for quite some time, and in fact, the witness, Ray Bauer, was a pilot and in April April twenty three, two thousand and seven,
he was flying. He kind of flies around these islands, the Channel Islands, which are in the English Channel. I had to add that because of as American urn familiar with the area out there, so he's an island
hopper. And actually one time he is flying around in April twenty third and he saw an object that was above these clouds because there was some low laying haze, and he at first thought it was maybe a building glinting light through the clouds, and he thought, well, that's not possible because there is not like getting to the ground. So he checked it out in his binoculars and it was this huge cigar shaped object, yellow glowing with a little band
of darkness on the right hand side. Then he noticed one behind it. At first he thought maybe it was the size of a three seventy or seven thirty seven. Later on though, thinking about it, and then with the radar information, he deducted that this thing must have been maybe even a while a mile wide. And that's right, you heard me correctly, radar information, because radar from the ground did pick up this object, and they confirmed that with him while he was in the air, asking the Tower of what
was going on and if they had seen this thing. Well, they told him that the object they were picking up was past the island that he was going to land on, so he was happy about that because he was getting worried because as they got closer, of course they could see these things were bigger and bigger. But he was able to land before they got to the objects because he didn't really want to fly near the mine. Had a crew full of a cabin full of passengers, but he says the passengers started getting
scared that he can hear them saying, what is that? Oh my gosh, you know, And when they got to the ground, he asked them what did you see? And they described the same thing to him that he had seen, and in fact, some of them even talked to the media, so pretty good case. Then a couple of days later he found out when he talked to the tower that there was another plane that had also seen
these UFOs that was up there. So this plane was flying doing this same thing from island to island, and they heard the radar tower say they had gotten unknown on radar, and so he looked to see if he could view this thing also, and he did. Now he only viewed it for a minute because it was at a different angle, and then he went behind some clouds and couldn't see it anymore. But he described the same thing, a large cigar shaped object that was glowing and yellow. So two pilots, radar
passengers all saw this thing. And doctor David Clark, who is one of the people who helps the UK National Archives with these files and he writes about UFOs and things, he even talked about how this is one of the most
mysterious cases that the UK has on file. Doctor or the pilot. Ray Brower actually spoke a few months later in November of two thousand and seven at the Washington National Press Club with an event that was put together by Leslie Keene and James Fox for his documentary Out of the Blue, and where they had gotten a lot of people together, some general's commanders. They had General Debauer
there, They had General Bermudez from Chile there. This is the same General Bermudez, by the way, who's going to be at the UFO Congress this year. He is running the Chile UFO Study Group, official Air Force UFO Group in Chile, so he's going to be at our conference to talk about that, but they had a lot of great people together to talk about UFOs, and Ray Bauer was one of those witnesses, so it's a really good
case. So I wrote more details about that because these uk UFO files had the official forms signing forms that were filled out by the witnesses, so you can see their drawings of what they saw and everything, and you can see the official response and essentially the UK said, well, that wasn't a primary radar, so they might not have actually gotten it on radar. Either way, the object seemed to be in French airspace and not British airspace, so
it's not really our problem. Of course, they didn't say it in those words, but close to it. You can see their exact wording in the file in the article section. So that was another UKUFO story that we covered. All of those stories that Jason talked about, you can also see in the new video that we put up with other cases and other statements that are very credible on the UK file, So very interesting files. However, let us get to our guest today, because this is a great one we have.
Like I said before, doctor Claude Swanson, a physicist and he is you know what. Let me see if I have here which we're guy. It agrees, because I Mit and Princeton see pretty cool stuff. This guy really knows what he's talking about, and I think he's just so terribly interesting. So let's get him on the phone. I'm very happy to be talking once again to my good friend Claude Swanson. Clode, are you on the phone? I am Hyaljandro. Hello, So it sounds like you never take
a break. You just finished your gigantic second book. And gigantic in words, but in size. I mean it's like a larger than normal. It's kind of what eight and a half by eleven almost, and and thick pages references, Wow, one hundred and fifty figures. When I was on the George Norrich show, he said they brought it up stairs to him in a forklift. Yeah, it's definitely a big one. But I remember how long you've been working on it. It took about seven years. What happened?
You know? My first book was Synchronized Universe, New Science of the Paranormal, and I was really interested in trying to look at phenomena and don't get our current science things that really current science cannot explain and sometimes people put forward
theories that they might claim explain them, but they really don't. So I wanted to look at the real evidence in the first book or out of body experiences and are remote viewing and esp and psychokinesis and you know, near death experiences, levitation things like that, and first of all, say, well, what's hard evidence? Is it persuasive? These things are real? And I concluded, yes, they are real. And in the last chapter of the book, I've proposed a the outline of a theory, but how we
could change our current science to begin to account for those things. And that was the synchronized universe model that gave rise to the book and the website. And really that leads very naturally to the idea of parallel dimensions parallel realities, and it explains how things can travel faster than light, how they can pass two walls. You know, all the strange things that you see in the UFO cases are also all in the same category as paranormal phenomena, so that
same theory applies to both. So that was pretty cool. And then the second book is trying to go deeper and say, well, what is the force that shows up what makes it possible for the physics to be different in paranormal cases, in UFO cases. And what I concluded there is is what the Chinese called chia. It's the lifeboard, and it's been known for thousands of years, but it's not part of the Western science. So I've pulled together all the hard evidence a mind for how this force behaves and then try
to develop the theory. But it's an hotline of the theory for how they can expand our current science to include chi and include the strange things that you see in energy medicine, energy healing, psychic phenomena and UFO cases. So that's it was. It just took that long. And what was surprising for me, Alejandro, is that I discovered for a whole lot of pieces of
the puzzle that I did not know. We're so far along. Things like the acupunctual meridians of the body have been photographed, they've been proven biophoton work in Germany, a lot of different pieces of the puzzle for a newer understanding of how we live, what a living being really is. There's a holographic matrix of energy that determines how we grow, how we heal, and it's also essential in how we communicate, how esp is possible, things like that.
So there's a big book because a lot of new discoveries that put in
the book. It's interesting, you know, you bring in the ancient stuff because it seems as though there are other scientists, and especially people like yourself, theoretical physicists, who are starting to learn that the more sophisticated our understanding of science and how the world works, the more how the ancient and some of these indigenous and Asian old Asian type of cultures and the ways start to make sense and they start to be able to be explained by this new science.
Well, you know, our Western medicine is very dependent on chemistry and drugs and surgery and processes that are fairly harsh to the body and in cutting and sewing and things like that, and chemicals that are not natural to the
body. When you ask yourself, well, how do other societies manage the process of health, maintenance and healing, they have a different method of the older societies in many many cultures around the world, but them as of Hawaii, the indigenous peoples of Siberia and Russia, Native Americans, there's so many places have shaman or some equivalent of shaman who does spiritual practices and energy medicine practices and some of those book and now in America, you know, we're
seeing the fruits of the way we live, eating too much food, of exercise, too much sugar, too much caffeine, too much stress, and it's starting to have effects on our body that Western medicine is not able to handle very well. And some of these more traditional, older fashioned techniques are
actually quite good at it. Because the Chinese, for example, their medicine is four thousand years old, their medicine, and this podified by the so called Yellow Emperor one D several thousand years ago, and they put together the principles and the basic idea is that we are a balance of energies in the body. Of those energies govern how we grow, how we yield. When we in health, we have to have a balance of these different given in
the different forces of energy. And the job of the position is to keep you well, not to hear you're going to get sick, although that's part of it. But you should take a balance and you don't get sick. And that's the right revolutionary idea for us. Right we don't have to learn to learn from those societies. Well, you know, I thought I at one point for relaxation and things like that, I really got into meditation for a while. And when I really found mostly partially because just like a lot
of us, I was an emotional storm. You know, I was like, I shouldn't be getting so upset and so emotional about all these things that I get upset about because it's silly, and so I wanted to calm myself. So I got into meditation and over the time, and I thought, there's no way I'm going to be able to most people feel this way. There's no way I can silence myself and balance myself. But I figured, you know what, at least even if I take little baby steps, it's
better than nothing. Over time, I did find that I could, Uh, it's kind of exponential. I could balance myself. And then I discovered that I was getting sick less. And when I would get sick, I would meditate, which is essentially just relaxing, teaching yourself how to relax, and I would get over those sicknesses. And I tell people at work and they kind of laugh and tease me, but they see that it's true. I mean, I don't get sick, and if I do, I'm able
to chill out and get rid of it really quick. And it's a simple act of chilling out. And then I learned that, you know, this isn't such a strange idea, even to some physicists and some therapists out there and biologists who are talking about, yeah, the stress is what's really making
us sick. Yeah, absolutely, And what was being learned about the body, you know, and you know the book Life Force is the mechanisms the body uses to seal and to make these repairs of the whole actfunctional system of the body is actually a network of tubules that have recently been discovered, they say, been photographs. Of course, you know, this is the tradition
in Chinese medicine for thousands of years. But in the last few years they've been traced to a whole new circulatory system, independent of blood, independent of nerves, independent of all the other systems of the body. It's not included in the western anatomy books. I have a daughter who has just got a Blogg University of Virginia a couple of years ago. Since working it gives me
she didn't believe the acpunction meridians existed. I showed her photographs, you know, and in China and in Korea they've done a lot of hard research to show that these Merindians carry signals throughout the body to tell the DNA that's kind of pattern it's supposed to be making. So it carries information about what your liver is supposed to look like, how the DNA and your fingernail is supposed to make a certain kind of tissue, while the DNA and some other parts
of the body makes some up kind of tissue. It's a communications system that actually carries holographic information because of a three D pictorial kind of pattern information it's carrying the agupuncture system, and it's not working right. The signals get messed up a little bit and get a little quite enough of a certain FOP disease,
you get anields at a certain time. Of what they bind is that in the agricultural meridians are also certain kind of cells, I don't know what you called stem cells, which can actually turn themselves into the right kind of tissue is needed. So if you deliver or your skin or something, he
helps as eventually the the acupunction relia can carry cells that point. So if this energy just chi also appears to be essential to understanding esp and psychic phenomena, and it may explain how craft can travel faster than LFE as well. So it may have a lot of interesting clues to a better understanding of some of the pusban phenomena that right now we can really explain. So key or
this energy then is how does the human body relate to that? I mean, is this energy generated by us somehow is does it have to do with electromagnetic forces or something? What is it? What do you think? Well, it looks some of the most interesting work has been done in Russia. I started in the nineteen fifties, a man named Nikolai Kazarev. He called it portion. But it's the same energy, and they all acknowledge this.
Now they would the Russians would say, it's essentially caused by skin. Every elementric particle in electrons, protons, neutrons, they all have a spin. They all spin around some axis in the same way the Earth spins around the North pole. They all have a spin axis. Now, when that skin axis changes, they say that creates the torsion wave. And so this is an elementary kind of force that actually compagates through space and carries that spinning property
with it. That and there's a left handed and a right handed version of this energy, the same as with Chinese medicine. There's a yen and ea
to different polarities of skin, and they carry opposite qualities. So a whole is it appear should have been work felt by the Russians for how this force behaves and when last most and Peristroica happened in the early nineties, and that the Russian Empire dissolved when they released all their client states, the scientists who are working on this suddenly found that they were now permitted to publish their papers,
and they also discovered they had no funding anymore. So there were a flood of papers that came out of Russia during that time period about this subject. It is the primary bulk of research we have available today in the West to deal with. But it does point to a hard science that seems to underline the force. And how did that science then get lost, because really it seems it did get lost because we're not using it today. Well,
I think any new science takes time to get accepted. There are always I mean, you can meet Thomas Coon's you know, structure of scientific revolution, or you can just look back in the history of them. We're having a Galileo when he discovered gravity and some of the early laws of gravity. Uh. There were other groups that had their own opinions. The Church followed Aristotle. Aristotle and told them a different cet of rules. When Galileo came along,
they suggested it. They didn't want Galileo's new theory. They felt that it was a sacrilege, and they asked him, do you want to you know, do you want to publish your theory? And if you do, you get the rack, you know, you get a choice fear, and he chose not to take the rac and to we can't and you know, so it's always been a challenge the new ideas come along today. I mean, in Western science we have you know, millions of people going to school
learning the Western standard physics. When I was in college, you take the standard E and M. Course, you're run the theory. Then you go into the lab and you do the experiments and they come out just the way the textbook said they would. Okay, well, of course you're doing the experiments the textbook told you to make. They're not looking at other strange things like skins or things like that, so you don't see anything anomalous, and
most physicists believe that that's the whole story. In fact, the torsion force, it's kind of weak. It's much fat to the lectum magnetism, and it often is masked by other effects like temperature, so it's a little bit hard to see. But in Russia it appears as though a very serious research
program, government supported went on for several decades. And there are some papers that I talk about in my book, and I described the experiments in some care that are so me the primary building block, the primary foundation for you diste science. And one of the interesting things about this force is I'll be an example of an experiment the Russians did, and they found that a lot of different materials respond to this force. You know, we we weekly,
but enough so you can use it. And they made a little detector for porson and they used tungsten resistors you know, what's called wheatstone bridge and they can detect torsion very weakly. You look at the focus of a telescope and aim it at the sun, and the sun goes overhead. Even when you block out all the light and all the heat, energy and everything else, they found that there was still something coming from the Sun and they were able
to see it with this telescope. The interesting thing about their experiment is they didn't see the Sun at just one place in the sky. When we look up with the sky, we're looking with our visible optical sensors, our eyes. We see the Sun at a certain place in the sky. It's where it was about eight point three minutes ago when the light left the Sun and travel toward the Earth. Okay, were delayed effect, and that's where the Sun appears to us in the sky. What the Russians saw is three places
in the sky where the Sun appeared when looked at through torsion. There's the delayed or it's called the retarded position, which is the normal way we see the Sun. They also saw a net position, which corresponds to a signal that traveled at infinite steed, there was no time delay in the second signal. They also saw a third They also saw a third signal, which is where the Sun would be if light traveled backwards in time or left the telescope
went to the sun. So that's a really strange one. They saw these three spots in the sky. Now the third spot, I don't quite get you there at okay, uh at backwards time? Oh as if the light So in other words, the same distance as the retarded one from the actual but in back in time. Yeah. So that the central point is the instantaneous point. Gotcha. Then that the one the retarded or the normal one. We would say he's on one side of that and the advanced one is
on the other side of that. Gotcha. Wow, that's very frequent. Yeah. So it says that this tourision signal is unusual in that it has elements to travel faster than light and in fact that they go backwards in time. Uh So it's a really strange course. But the neat thing is that it's right what people see in psychic phenomena. There are experiments for example, well we'll take remote viewing for example, and the remote viewing it doesn't matter
whether you're trying to see a target. It's in the past or in the future, or in the presence too. Mcmonagle says his accuracy is sixty five
to eighty percent for all three in the past president and future targets. We you know, I think with our site courses in remote viewing, we would look at targets sixty five million years ago, the destruction of the dinosaurs, and you know, we've got quite good results in terms of you know, I saw something in the fireball of something coming out of the sky and it's all these little figures looking up at it. I mean the whole thing, and you know I was able to name the target. In remote viewing,
you never told what the target is. It's a psychic process. It's a systematic process that makes it easier to do because you get your conscious mind out of the way. And so it's an example where time doesn't matter. The Princeton Pair Lab for thirty years protected hundreds of thousands of experiments on psychic phenomena esp. Psychokinesis, things like that, and they found that time doesn't matter.
So you can send or re see if the signal backward or forward in time, which is totally unlike the forces of physics that we're used to, but it's very much like the way torsion behaves. So they have the answer to what the force is. It explains paranormal phenomena. So do you believe that we perhaps have our sixth sense would be a sense of torsion, and somehow we're using torsion to be able to be psychic. Yeah, I think so. I mean, experiments have been done with people, just average people.
You put them in a lab, wire up the brains, the brain waves, you know, the EEG measurement, and you send them a psychic message. We well, first of all, they'll do an experiment, a play a tone like a musical note, and they'll watch how the brainwaves respond. Then they'll send a psychic message. Now the person's in an isolation booth, there's no idea that someone's trying to send a psychic message, but the brain waves respond much the same way as when you hear a tone. In
other words, the brain waves basically say I'm getting a signal. Okay. Now, consciously, the person has no idea he's getting a signal, but his brain waves are showing at the subconscious level he received a psychic message. So we probably all have the reception machinery built into us. And what's really the problem for most people is our conscious minds are chattering all the time.
We're always we learn in school, left brain processes and memorization, adding, subtracting things like that, analyzing the trickiest, quiet that part of the mind. That's where meditation comes in. That's where ignosis can be helpful. When you quiet that chattering mind, then you constructors listen to those messages as a subconscious is receiving. So I think we all have the machinery. M hm wow. And so you talked about how they were able to measure torsion with
a device. If torsion I know with willhem Reich for instance, he used devices. Uh, he believed he could create oregone and what he you know, his version of the G Then can electronic devices could we build them? Can we build like a torsion TV where we can tune into some of this stuff? We might we might be able to I'm not. I can't say we we can't until we do. But what what I've described in the book. I have a couple of chapters on the torsion science and on devices that
have been built which they claim work or communication. We're sending signals through wave guides or broadcast through the air, and you know they penetrate materials that would be would reflect as the magnetic signals and they travel a lot faster potentially. So it's you know, we're talking about the very early stages of a new
science. It's like you're talking to Michael Faraday, you know, back when he just invented electricity or just discovered our electromagnet work, even before uh Maxwell came along with his equations, and you're asking, you're asking him, well, you know, what good is it? What could you do with it? Well, it turns out a member of parliament did ask Faraday that exact question, what good is electricity? What good is what good is it? And Paraday's answer was, well, sir, someday you will be able to
tax it. With the early stages here, but I will not be surprised if there are many amazing developments along the way. With the communication device that was built, was it then able to uh communicate faster than any sort of radio wave, like an instantaneous type of communication. That is what the fragmentary papers and reports so we have from the Russians indicate that yes, it will
be able to travel faster the life. There's not a lot of detail on a lot of this stuff, or if there is, it's in Russian, and then there's lots stuff and translated. So you know, what we have is the tip of the iceberg. But that's what it looks like. Now, are there any labs out there working on torsion now that you know of I don't know of it. I don't know about it. If they are, I would imagine, so it seems fool is to overlook it. But I don't know about any the government as far as I know, in the
National Science Foundation, we don't give grands to do research on it. So in America it's been pretty much poo food in the mainstream science. There were a couple of Russians, not Russian scientists, but a couple of Russians who
wrote articles on the web that debunked it. And in public American science it seems like it's been decided that, oh, it's just a bunch of hui, and just don't we'll even touch it, you know, But if you start looking into it, there are an enormous number of Russian Russian scientists but worked on this for decades. Wow. In fact, if you go back, go back to the classic book Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain by Ostrander
and Schroeder. That was written in nineteen seventy country aout nineteen seventy before I was forty years ago, and they interviewed this man, Nikolai Posrev, who discovered torsion in the fifties, So in the late sixties when they are over there, they're in his lab. They're in his lab at an observatory in Russia, and he's doing his experiments right in front of them and showing them how these things work, and they're describing it, and it's the most amazing
thing. You know, there's no chance and this is somebody trying to mislead anybody. So the probabilities of this is a genuine, real science and it's a real phenomenon and it's hard to believe it's not being researched somewhere. So yeah, if I can get the money, would you help me will open up Swanson torsion Lab. Yes, this whole thing running, Well, let's talk about that offline. Yeah, that would be amazing. I mean,
it seems like something that needs to be picked up. And as far as let's see with this sort of torsion, it's similar to TI you had said, and I know you had talked about different Chinese experiments that they had done that were pretty advanced and had some yeah, incredible, that's what the result.
That was one of the things that got me involved in the first place because I met an energy healer back in the eighties mite Girpus, who was a Polish immigrant who was quite gifted and energy healing, and up until that time, my impression about most of these strange phenomena is that they're very elusive to come and they go and reliable, and so it's hard to do research on him because they're so weak. But Mitech was an energy healer who when
he worked on you, you could feel the energy. You know, he never touched anybody. He's always several feet away, but you felt, you know, you felt the shift. You felt something better and more energetic and healthier and happier after he worked on you. And one thing I noticed is that he would breathe. He would breathe in a funny kind of way inhaling and exhaling his breath. The Hindus called his kanayama. He's a Yoga method of breathing. And what they say is you're building up chi in your body.
You have a concentration of chi, and that's when it gives you the ability to do these things. So that was I guess maybe so the origin of some of his research. What the Chinese have been doing in recent years is studying these masters scientifically. They've discover or facilities. They call them chikong masters. They build up chi in their body, they can move it around,
they can project it out of the acupuncture points. Often they used the hand as a place where they would commit this chi and they can send it to somebody else and you can view it when whether it lands, when it hits you. It is a form of healing. It's also used in some forms of martial arts. So what the Chinese government has been doing is doing research scientifically in the lab with some of these people to see what happens,
what are the effects of chieve, and how it behaves. There was one great master, I think it's so alive after Yan Xin, who in the nineteen eighties began research with the Scientific National Physics Institute in China and they did a series of experiments with them. They would do things like you have a radioactive material like amuritium, which gives off alpha particles periodically, and you know, for the materials that have a long half life, they decay slowly,
and therefore we watched them decay. But it's a pretty much it's a standard rate. We don't know how to change that rate of decay very much. But they would ask the chigong master, can you affect how fast it decays? And he would say would okay, Well, see if you could be increase it, and he would increase it, and they would go off maybe ten twenty percent faster decay. They would say, okay, okay, now see if you can decrease the decay. It would decrease several percent. They
say, okay, now let's see how a distance factors in. And he would go away from the experiment by a thousand miles. We asked him to do the same thing and it would still work. Okay, that's pretty amazing. They did the same type of experiment with laser beams. Bending lasers. Uh. You can change the structure of water. This is one This is one thing many healers are able to do by sending their chi energy into the water. It changes the water bonding between the hydrogen and oxygen atoms of the
volecule. You can measure this on a certain type of lab procedure called Raman's pectroscopy. It will show you how the bonding has changed from the CHI. So lots of experiments have been done and China has been one of the leaders. They've also shown that you heal from cancer surgery, things like that faster after chi dong after receiving a dose of CHI. So lots of interesting stuff
go on, and in my book presents all of that material. So would it be accurate to say them because I know this word is misused a lot, but because you talk about g or this energy, for lack of a better word, I guess I'll just call it she has to do a spin and at a very small level. Would it be accurate then to call it, using kind of a modern vernacular, a quantum type of energy. Well, my suspicion is that it's you. It goes below that, it goes
beneath that. Our quantum physics is the accepted standard physics, and we say, this is the uncertainty principle that limits how finally processes that we talked about, how finally you can look at processes. But most quantum phenomena, you know, deals with things on the size of the atom or the size of the nucleus basically elementary particles. What they're going to with those go down as small as penda munus fifteen meters, with the a nucleus system of mine of
fifteen meters, which is called one Fermie. That's from the smaller scale of most quantum things that are talked about. But there is a front here now looking at things at a deeper level. One kind of research has been worked on by how put Off, Bernie haysh Al Fausta and others where they try to go deeper and they say, well, why does quantum physics worked the way it does. Is there some mechanism at a deeper level? And you
know, that's that's what Einstein always believed. That was the problem He had the bore and all the quantum debate. He felt one physics, it's okay, but it's only an approximation. There's something at a deeper level. Well, what these people are presented is if you assume that the vacuum is filled with energy, with lots of photons and other things floating around, that a particle that we say is just in a quantum state, it's just sitting there,
sitting still not doing anything. We say it's in a stable energy state, and that would be most things like an atom sitting in space. The hydrogen atom is, for example, sits in space. In a quantum picture, it's not doing anything. It's in a stable quantum state, and we just say it's in an eigen state. You don't have to worry about it, and that's what should learn in school. But in the picture that the other gentleman had developed, it's a dynamic system. It's a radiating energy out
into space. All the time it's being hit by the energy in the vacuum which is exciting it and cause of it to bounce around. That's where the uncertains comes from. So it's a biger play between energy coming in energy going out. So it's a deeper, more detailed description, and that's where this pision picture seems to fit it. Toson appears to be maybe the finest scale energy in the vacuum. You may even define the fabric of space time.
So that's quantum. It's sub quantum exactly. And so if you want to if you want to do things that go beyond our current physics, you have to you have to go there basically, right now we think that Einstein's equations, well, it's about space and time. But I suppose this other force, this chief force, who is able to change space and time, so as you can start, you can speed up or spill down time, so you can stretch things in the ways our current physics can uh. This chief
force may hold the answer to how to do that. So that's that's the exciting thing for me because some of these experiments. But you look at these chigong masters, I mean, they defy c physics, so you're not gonna be able to explain them of steaking with physics. It's exciting too because there's so many disciplines that are talking about different parts. So for example, you're talking about healing and the ways to heal, and this chi being able to
balance at a sub quantum level your your atoms and your your cells. You know, there's a gentleman, and I know you know of him and his work, and his name is kind of Bob Plimpton or Pilkington or he's a biologist who talks about and he makes it so you can understand, because he was a teacher of biology, how cells respond better to other types of energy than chemicals, which is what we deal with them with, and which for
him allows this idea of also the healing and the energy healing and light healing that things like people do putting lights on cells and things like that. Do you know how I'm talking about Plimpton anything, I don't know. The thing sounds from me that I don't recognizine, but sort of that type of thing is being demonstrated over and over again now at the frontiers of medicine and an alternative medicine. A lot of healing going on with lights and certain frequencies.
I mean the work. The work started, you know, nineteen seventy in Germany with the jabag Pop who got the idea that DNA, as a big molecule, creates and absorbs hotons, little packets of energy, and that it sends those packets to other molecules in the cell, and those packets contained both energy and information and caused other molecules to respond in a certain way with the whole communication system. And he began working on this idea seventies. Everybody else
laughed at it, they thought it was crazy. You know, now thirty four years later, it's a huge body of work. German groups have a mass to show it's not crazy, it's actually the way living systems work. Yeah, I think it. Yeah, and so frequencies of light are an important part of that. Right. I was gonna mention I saw a documentary recently on the Swedish working on Tibetan medicines, because the Tibetans talked about the
light body. When they worked on a body, they worked on the light body, and that their herbal remedies were just that we're centered around that delight frequency, which is really interesting, and I guess the Swedish worked on it and have created pills that are similar to depetent medicine that are helpful. But unfortunately, especially in the United States and other countries, they don't accept that form of medicine. Well again, you know we have in this country and
in other countries too. There's already an industry, an entrenched industry, if you excuse the expression, that is quite happy with the profits they're making and the technology they have, and so partly there's resistance to learning something new, but partly it's competition. You know, we're talking about technology that could put out of business some of these patents and drugs and things like that, So
of course they're against it. So it's hard, it's not. It's never just strictly science, you know, there's always the business aspect and the emotional aspect as well. So yeah, that's why it takes time. New discoveries take time to work their way into the system. Thinking of that term sub quantum, which is a really neat term. You know, I love star treking. It sounds like a star treking type of thing. Then how does this all translate over to that over to kind of UFOs and being able to
move faster than light. Well, if you go back to the Russian experiments with the sunlight, they were actually seeing a component of energy, well actually two different components, one going back to some time and then the one going into the speed which is faster than life. So those are two other three signals they were seeing, I do go faster than light, and they were
based on distortion. So with the infinite speed using that term which was meaning that probably as fast as is possible, well that which you mean my infinite speed into that speed means it takes no time to get from point A to point by zero time. But you know, the Russian measurements with the sunlight. We're indicating there is a third signal going backwards in time, right what
you call what you call that faster than than infinite? Right, you might you know, uh, if we're in a strange new regime here where the people will have to go over this and rethink a lot of the concepts and think of the granted like what is the fastest speed? How do how do we you know, rework our physics to include some of these states and so at the early stages right now, but certainly if you want to have a chance of going faster than light, then you might think that articles or whatever
portion, uh you want call it, you fellow, the wave. It's a signal, maybe a sun quantum signal, but that might be a good place to see art. So you know, I don't have all the answers
right now, but it's a promise in technology. We need you to get those answers as soon as possible, yes sir, Yeah, well that's so right, which is why we experiment and why they experiment them of course with the quantum particles, because they're able to demonstrate some faster than than light, which if we understand how the mechanics of that, then that may allow us to build a machine or some sort of process to exceed the speed of light.
One of the things that some of the Russians towards and scientists playing to have done is to use torsion generators to change the rate of time. M it's like a like a primitive version of a time machine. I mean not not really in the sense that it's not jumping a different times as you change your speeding up or slowing down time. These two different components of torsion, the right handed left handed torsion, appear to have opposite effects on the rate
of time. So you can fill a volume of space with one or the other form of torsion and you can speed up or slow down time. And there have been several papers about that. With a watch or clock in the middle of the space, an equal identical clock outside, and then let them run for a while and then see where they are. And the one inside may run slower or faster depending on the kind of torsion you're filling a space with. So that's pretty interesting experiment that might have applications. Yeah, and
that would help you with your book. You would be able to slow down time to where you it feels like a long period of past and you can finish your book on a day. I could really use that. That would be very useful. That's what I would do, write ten stories in a day. Sometimes it seems to work the other way. Yeah, yeah, that sounds good. With this then sub quantum energy, and it also kind of fits the GI idea and other of course indigenous people talking about this energy
being in everything, even star wars in the forest. But which then would uh does that have there been experiment with actually trying to you said you would they were affecting that radioactive material, But what about moving things? What about what is that telekinesis Yeah, I'm trying to think if I've seen any good experiments. I know, you know the most famous telekinesians experiments or the Princeton
pair lab experiments. They are on a much smaller scale, not as spectacular as Obi wan kenobi, you know, knocking over you know, so robot or something. And in the Princeton pair Lab they have little plottum devices basically they call random event generators and they use pot of noise and electrons to create a stream of ones and zeros that are random. They're equivalent of putting that
point very fast and counting your head and your tails. You know, if you can track of them, and on the average you'll get the balance and the equal numbers of heads and tails. If you ask someone to make it go high and get more head tails or more one from zeros. The Princeton pair Lab found that virtually anybody was able to do it, and of course some people are better than others. But what's remarkable is that it doesn't matter
how far away you go. If you put these people a thousand miles from the random event generator and they were just as good at making it go high
or low when requested. That's the really simple form of telekinesis not very impressive, maybe because you have to process it by computer, but you get a very high statistical accuracy, and you have to convince scientists that you're really looking at a simple noise and odds against chance, because a skeptical scientist would say, okay, yeah, you got it to go the way you tried, you wanted to do that time, continue to do it again, and that's
where they come in, and that's a very reasonable question. What the Princeton pair level found was yes, do it again and again and again, and the odds against chance, the odds that these are real effects and not do the random punctuations, because now the pair level has done so much data. So I felt odds against chance of trillions to one, trillions to one that this is a real effect, not a chance effect. So it's overwhelming.
If they're demonstrated, the k exists. Now some of the Chinese masters other of other people who study this stuff, their whole lives develop amazing ability. So you read uh the wonderful book by the UH, the Indian Yoki Yogananda. He talks about growing up as the Yoki and the things he witnessed. Uh. You know, there's some amazing things in there. The Chinese have been researching some of their pastors, maybe the search and then the eighties to
find some of the people who were most able to create genermal phenomena. I talk about that in volume one, and yeah there were one of One of the people was named Jang Baojeng, who was famous for teleportation. UH. He would the v P visitors would come over to come to their UH site and he would cause a one hundred pounds sack of sugar to teleport to a wall and people produ to being watching, and then the other experiments that would
do the radio transmitter we were teleporting from one place to another. They were doing experiments on this stuff in the seventies and eighties, and they're in a number of reports from bid visitors who were treated to the shows. They show some of these people, and so I described some of those in my book, and Paul Dong is a she dog master as writing sea Oh books about some of those experiments. So if you look hard and find really able people,
you do find them. I'll give you one example. There's a professor us a California system whos been doing research on this stuff, keeps from a portion chigong from a very powerful master. One day, the class is coming out of their lesson on the sidewalk in Los Angeles. A woman in the class had her purse snatched at some guy again running down the street. Clout inside the wall, and the master came out and saw what happened. In
the post people the class were all yelling at him. You know, that guy's going a furse he has forty feet away and running fast and the master looks like it hold out his hand, you know, just like just like in Star Wars holds out his hand and the guy falls down. The balls suddenly knock it up. The class saw thes over to him and they picked up the purse and the master says, this can don't do that again. Wow, And I you know, I heard this with one of the people
in the class. There's a professor in the University of California system, very high integrity, that well known scientist. So you know, these things do
happen if you find the individuals specially well trained. This is See, this is the kind of thing that I think is so exciting, and unfortunately I don't think it's really made it into the mainstream because what you're talking about are these subtle energies that theoretical physicists more than just yourself are starting to open up to, and because they're starting to see that there are these things going on and there have to be other mechanics behind it that we don't understand yet,
and we're seeing all these crazy things happening in quantum physics. So, like you said, these ideas about these sub quantum type of energies and all of this opens up these incredible possibilities that this amazing story you just described could possibly be explained by science if we just understood those suntle that energies involved. Well, that's why my second book Life Scientily basis so big, because I have
a lot of the experiments in there. We've got the graphs, we got the references and everything else, so as scientists could go through that and learn about these experiments. The same way with the first books and as Universe, I try to put in the data, what's the evidence for these phenomena, because most Qustian physicists never hear about these experiments. They don't know the stuff exists. A lot of them have even been kind of brainwashed to not be
interested. They've been told all, it's a bunch of hogwash, you know, it's just a bunch of you know, and so they don't even look open mindedly or in a serious way to find what the evidence is. So I try to put my books together in a way too. If someone does have the courage to open and then read, they'll see, my god,
there's evidence that these things actually happen. Here's how it behaves. And then they'll say, well, hey, we need the better theory, we need a theory for this, and that's what's needed right now is you know, I belong to an organization or I C I S S s ee M, a subtle energy organization that looks at the scientists attle energy. Uh. They on three different years they paid money to some of the top string theorists, people like Brian Greene, Michel Kaku to come and talk. You know.
What they found is that these people know very little about subtle energy. They don't read the journal articles about subtle energy or or Chi or Chi dong. Uh. So they don't have access to the evidence. So they're working on their theories. Assuming that Western physics already knows how the university a is, they have to make a little bit better mathematical theory for it. And the idea there's a whole other force that's been left now the Western's hasn't occurred with
them. Mhm. And But I mean, on on a positive note too, talking about that I seem organization, it seems like there's a lot of them Boulder. What's up with Boulder? That's where I went to university actually, but because it's just an advanced place, I guess. But I mean there's the Life and Mind Institute out there, which is I know, they've gotten really involved with the Dalai Lama and it's a bunch of scientists, quantum
physicists starting to see similarities. And also an organization you belong to, the Society for Scientific Exploration and there there are a bunch of scientists. I know there's somewhat skeptical about UFOs although they talk about it. But they're very open to some of these consciousness type of ideas, aren't they. They are a lot of these are university professors up like Robert Shawn and Triniston Parallel Experiments is
one of the founders of the organization. And yeah, the reason they created the s S is because they get resistance when they try to publish their papers in the mainstream in its journals. Those journals just say, oh, we don't we don't publish have kind of stuff, We don't want to know about that, and we don't believe in it or whatever. And so they needed
a place where people can exchange information and talk about this. And the s S is one of those wonderful organizations which is open minded, has real scientists with good rigorous training in many cases, and yet they're open minded to these controversial issues. And the UFOs was one of the topics covered in one of
the national meetings of the s SC a couple of years ago. So yeah, it's very refreshing that at least they open that they about a four and I think Peter Sturik started it right and he was an astronomer who was very into UFOs and that was the main impetus I think they did create. Yep. So are you then hopeful that uh, these that you putting out your books about this and and uh some of these other scientists are getting involved.
Uh do you feel that your colleagues and scientists starting to move into this area. Yes, it's a slow process that happens one at a time. You know. It's I meet people every day who loved my books. They're very grateful for them. It's including scientists. Uh so, but you know, the numbers compared to a number of people who do a reach from the national
television show like Nova, which is it's a timely fraction. So it's a slow it's a slow process because the main media still doesn't seem willing to carry these messages. So uh, it's it's still basically we are teaching a course now California in the Human Science Small College, uh Antyas, California. That's taking my book of the textbook, you know. So energy medicine and these
these new discoveries are I think they're growing and they're more I think. I think as Western medicine becomes too expensive and there's too many as a lot of people just realize they can't afford it or it's not doing a good job. And energy healers can do things that a doctor with a pill, you know, can't do. Then that opens up people's minds. They start saying, well, I have a vend who's an energy healer out in Missouri, you know, and you work some people at thousands of miles away and they can
feel the energy, they feel the benefit from it. But then the next question is how does that work? How could that possibly happen? How can you explain it? And that's where it's good to have a book like that, and that's where science starts to open up. But I think it's a full process. Yeah, Bruce Lipton, that's the guy who is I was thinking of the biology of belief where he talked about that Canute. But I can see the pr problem though, too, is that it's very technical and
it's very difficult. There's not very many scientists. Mitchell O Kaku's one who's good at translating to the layman these complicated scientific ideas. But I think it's so interesting that hopefully if there's any documentary makers out there listening, I think
this is definitely something to tackle because it's worth it. It's demonstrating that there is this slow movement to this and the benefits are incredible because if extraterrestrials, civilizations and vans were now advanced, civilizations out there have mastered these subtle energies, and it demonstrates how they can do things to us that would seem impossible. There's a famous scientist at Chinese Science. I'm not sure I can pronounce
his name properly. He immigrated from the US back into the Nameland China back in the eighties. It was a fun page story in Newsweek in time. He was famous in the US. He was one of the founders of Jeffer Paulson Laboratory. He went to China and became instrumental in leading their rocketry and space program. He's one of the most distinguished though scientists in China and Aviation Week in space technology. G Is has sloughted. You know how great scientists
he is. He looked at the on my website, I have the reference to this quote. You look at this datas and his experiments I was mentioned earlier from doctor jan Jin where he's changed for your activity and your active decay rates and getting lay sabines and things like that with chi and basically he says, yes, this is real and it's a genuine breakthrough. It's a revolutions,
it's a whole new area of visits. You know that this is a point's here that has been opened up with this course and his new experiments, and so it's it's an exciting time for people who would catch on that the stuff is happening. So I think inevitably it's it's going to gain interest as time goes on. Yeah, very exciting. And your website is synchronized you verse dot com. That's where they can get your books and everything and read. You've got a lot of material up there for people to look at and
experiment, and you're working on a third Berth book. Well, yeah, Andrew, if you can't spell synchronized, the Americans spell it with a Z. Well the English I think use an s right, So all you have to is put put my name Claude Swanson in the Google and the website pops up near the top of the list. Yeah, that's an easy way to find a website. That's the way people do it these days. Anyway. I know a lot of people. They don't even have the u url barkers.
They just google it. So Claude Swanson, Google pod Swanson. Yeah, yep, exactly, all right, great, thank you so much. You also have some lectures that you do around and other radio shows, and they can get all of that information. But it's I've had the pleasure of knowing you for quite some time and got to spend time. I knew you before you move new of you, I should say, before you moved to Colorado. So it's great to get to know you when you did move out
to Colorado. And it's always great to talk to you. So thank you so much for joining the radio show. Thank you, Elejandro, Thank you soon. All right, talk to you soon. Always wonderful to talk to Claude Swanson. Next week, because we only got a few seconds. We've got Lee Spiegel from the Huffington Post, the guy who's been writing about UFOs and stuff. Cool guy. He's the one who helped me get my blog over there, so I'm very excited to talk to him. So join us next week. Talk to you letter people,