Debbie Ziegelmeyer and Chuck Zukowski, UFO trends

Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. That is I Alejandro. Thank you mister Deane for that lovely introduction. You are listening to Open Minds Radio. We are your UFO news authority and we have a great show today. Some good buddies of

mine, Debbie siege Meyer and Chuck Zukowski. Debbie is the state director for Mouffon in Missouri, where there has been a lot of UFO action outside of Kansas City. Jason and I have been talking about UFO sightings out there, debating a little bit about what might be being seen out there, and so we brought on the person who's in the know, and she's going to tell

us all about the which I didn't know. They're having all kinds of even more sightings than we've been talking about out there, so they've got a lot going on. However, we're also going to talk about, you know, I talked about this a little bit on the last show, the thirty seventh latitude line and how when I looked at UFO hotspots. I saw the states

along that line in central United States, we're all hotspots. So we brought Chuck Zukowski on because he had sent me some information a few weeks prior and said, hey, I found that along the thirty seventh latitude line. There's something's range going on here and even called it the paranormal Freeway. I kind of was like, yeah, whatever, and I deleted the email. No, I just kind of set the information aside and decided to revisit it later.

But I was shocked that because I was working on this hotspots stuff that when I come up with that map, I showed something similar to what he had seen, and he sees it mostly between Colorado and Missouri, where his sister is the state director. So we've got him both on to talk about how they started working together in the paranormal, what they've been up to, and all of this. I should mention also that Debbie is a move On board director, so she's like one of the big cheeses at move On right

now. And this is new US of just the last UFO move On symposium, So great news, lots to talk about and with some fun people. So it's going to be a good time. Another thing that is always a good time is talking UFO news, and of course it Open Minds do TV. We keep up to be on all of the latest headlines and we always bring this UFO news genius to the show, Jason McClellan to share with us all of the latest stories. Jason, how are you My head is swelling?

Yep, Well, UFO news genius than silly guy. You greeting Zalajandro and hello everyone. This is your Open Minds News Brief for Monday, October twenty fourth, twenty eleven. SETI Institute Senior astronomer Seth Shostak says humans will detect extraterrestrial life in twenty years. In a Popular Science article published by Jennifer

Obassi last week, Shastak was asked several questions about extraterrestrial life. When asked by Abassi about his timetable prediction for finding extraterrestrial life, Shastak responded, in the course of the next twenty years, it just might happen. He explained, there are other places in the Solar System that might have liquid water. To find it requires mounting a big mission with rockets and robots and going to look. The timetable for that is ten to twenty thirty years, depending on

the funding. Funny was recently an issue for SETI, the institute, which uses radio telescopes to listen for alien signals, was forced to suspend operations that It's Allen telescope array back in April twenty eleven due to funding issues, but after a successful fundraising campaign called SETI Stars, the telescope array was brought back online in August. Boss He also asked Shawstak when he thinks extraterrestriers will find us on Earth. He replied, finding us is actually harder because how could

they find us. You could conceivably pick up our television, our radar, our FM radio, but you have to be close enough for the signals to have gotten to within say seventy light years. The number of stars within seventy light years is maybe a few tens of thousands, but it's not a very big number. I don't know what they're going to I don't know when they're going to find us, but maybe when we've been on the air for a lot longer. It's kind of funny his response, We can find them,

but they can't find us. It's ridiculous. I mean, he does point out that Earth is relatively young compared to the rest of the universe, but still, I mean, we're using the same idea here that they're going to find us based on our signals, we're going to find them based on their signals. It's a long shut Yeah, it doesn't really make any sense, and it doesn't have there's no imagination or foresight into civilizations that are much much

more advanced than us. I mean, you know, just like people who Michiokaku, who make fun of kind of these sort of statements that Setting makes or Shot Steck makes, is that one hundred years ago, look at our technology, And I'm kind of that's kind of how Michio talks. That's weird how I'm able to kind of channel some Minia Mitchio. One hundred years ago, look at our technology. We were writing in buggies, you know,

steam, and now look out of it. One hundred years ago, there's no way we would have been able to imagine the iPhone and these technologies that we have now. So in one hundred years from now, there are going to be things that we could never conceive of right now, because they're just going to be different and incredible. So if you take these civilizations too, maybe around hundreds or thousands of years longer than we have, their capabilities are

just completely you know, unknown to us. So it's kind of silly. And you know, depending on how far ahead of us they may be in technology or behind us in technology, I mean think about oh, I mean we're not going around looking for somebody sending out Morse code or something. I mean you think technology is old, you're done with it, you move on. In fact, I think you know it's a because I used to think about this. I used to ask people, do you think one day we're

going to travel in time? And if they said yes, then that means that most likely someone from the future is traveling here right now. You kind of believe that one is akin to the other. And it's similar. If you believe there are advanced civilizations out there that I say, let's say a thousand years more advanced than this, then they probably have these monitoring technologies that are so far in advanced what we may have that it's very possible, if

not probable, And some of us believe it's happening. We're being monitored right now. It's not that hard to conceive. It don't like but also, you know, I do like to point out that we do like to jump to that generalization that extraterrestrials are so far beyond our technology. We like to do that huge grouping all extraterrestrials together. And you know, all throughout the Star Trek scenario, you have many different types of extraterrestrials and they're all on

different levels. I mean, look at the FARRANGI they were morons, morons alle hundro know, they were very fiscally intelligent. They certainly liked money. I wouldn't call them intelligence or money grubbing. Well, everything for the dollars is that if there are civilizations thousands of years beyond us, just one, that would mean that they have these technologies that are beyond what we can even

comprehend, and including monitoring technologies, and they could be watching us. Right at least have it noted that there are these talking monkeys on planet XJ forty three if they have any interest in our old television shows? Yeah, well no, not even with radio. There's multiple ways. There's light. We've been sending out light electric light now for a number of years. They could be looking at that there's another of different things that we radiate. It could

be just like we do the different gases. They could be seeing that there is pollution, and there's carbon, there's people there, there's the technology to burn carbon and create electricity. They could just be monitoring those sort of changes in our atmosphere to tell that there's a civilization here. There's a number. We can't even imagine all the different ways that they could be. Who knows, maybe they can even just monitor our brain power. There's some sort of

energy we don't know. Don't freak me out. I'll tell you what. If they are looking at our light, they certainly could not have missed the beam of light coming off the Luxor casino in Vegas. Maybe the Luxor when they switch that on. There were a bunch of civilizations that were like, what's that holy cow that made contact? For sure, yep, there's some crazy monkeys on that planet that are gambling their butts off. I hope they don't view us as monkeys. I like monkeys, but I would be honored

to be viewed as a monkey. I love monkeys. They are pretty cool. Yeah. Well, In other news, Alejandro Gary Travis, resident of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, recently shot video of multiple UFOs in the night sky. Travis initially thought this series of offshore lights could be airplane landing lights, but after observing the behavior of the UFOs, this veteran pilot with forty

years experience, ruled out airplane landing light. He explained to NBC affiliate WMBF, these lights seemed to snap on and off like someone flipped a switch. I even saw them rotate around each other, and that's not going to happen on an airplane. When it comes to UFO setting reports, pilots are typically thought to be highly credible and reliable witnesses due to the training and experience related

to objects in flight. Journalist Leslie Keynes twenty ten New York Times bestseller UFOs generals, pilots and government officials go on the record, features eyewitness accounts for multiple pilots for this very reason. According to WMBF, UFOs are reported fairly frequently in the Grand Strand area of South Carolina, which includes Myrtle Beach.

Travis says he has never seen anything like the mysterious lights he recently observed, and after we reported this story last week, Gary Travis contacted US and clarified that his video was actually shot in Ocean Isle Beach, North Carolina, rather than Middle Beach, South Carolina, as originally reported. Oceanele Beach is approximately twenty miles north of Myrtle Beach, and according to Travis the incident, it was the fourth time he'd seen these orange lights in Ocean Aisle this year.

The three previous sightings occurred back in June. Travis recently uploaded his original high definition video of his latest sighting and explains that quote captures total a dozen total objects at random points. Note that the large orb at the top is the full moon and the lights on the horizon in the distance is a lighthouse. A comment left on Travis's YouTube video suggests that the lights could be military flares, but Travis responded, one of the lights I didn't record was observed cruising

horizontally at over one hundred miles per hour. I've never seen a flare do that. I guess you had to be there like I was. That's the whole thing with these investigations with people like this guy is that he's an expert witness. He's a pilot, and unlike some skeptics. I do believe that pilots are more educated on what they see just that because they have the education. But unfortunately the video and the photos, you know, it's hard to

really determine anything for us who weren't there off of those things. So even these people commenting, well, that looks like it could be this or that, which sometimes skeptics do, it's hard unless you're there. The best thing you can have is just someone on site, an expert witness like this. What's exciting about this story too, is that he got ahold of us and

sent us some more stuff, which is really cool. And that's all you can do is just evaluate, which is typical for Move On you they evaluate

the credibility of the witness. In this case, it's a highly credible witness and what he saw, and unfortunately the video it's difficult to say it's something indefinitely right, Yeah, I mean this particular story, you know, the witness testimony counts for a lot, and that's the strongest part of the story because, like you said, you look at the koto, you look at the video, and it really just looks like airplane landing lights and right there

at the very very beach. He's talking about there's an airport right there, so you know, one would think obviously that's airplane's coming in for a landing. But you have this pilot there who is there frequently. He has forty years experience, he knows what landing lights look like, and he describes other behaviors that weren't caption on video. But you know, going on his word,

there were these other behaviors that aren't airplane behaviors. So yeah, if he was a you know, someone like like me, someone who's maybe someone that's not related to but Joe Lunchbox, Joe Lunchbox, then maybe you could bow it off a little easier. But I think these cases are a lot more interesting because I've talked to a lot of these people and they're not arbitrarily calling everything a UFO, especially a pilot. They're certain about what they see.

Correct. We have another story here. Cameras at Lincoln Airport in Nebraska recorded a bright object streaking through the early morning sky on Wednesday, October nineteenth, as it shot toward the earth. Witnesses contacted the Lancaster County Sheriff's office to report the UFO. According to ABC News, deputies were dispatched six miles northwest of Lincoln, where the mysterious object was thought to have crashed down,

but no debris or damage was located. But a similar UFO was seen in Sioux Falls, South Dakota at the same time as the Lincoln UFO, so the two incidents are most likely one and the same. Sioux Falls is more than two hundred miles north of Lincoln, so it's not surprising that deputies from the Lancaster County Sheriff's Office found no debris during their surge. Aberdeen News reports

that law enforcement officials were also called by witnesses and Sioux Falls. One witness described that she was on her deck and all of a sudden quote, the deck lit up in an orange and blue object streaked off, leaving a trail of smoke behind end quote. She, like many other witnesses, was startled

in unsure about what she observed. Officers from Sue Falls Police Department also observed the streaking white in the sky, but according to the August Ledger or August Leader, rather the National Weather Service has offered their suggestion for what the UFO was. Tim Masters, a technician with the National Weather Service, and seue Falls asserted it wasn't a UFO, it was a meteor. Did you watch

that one? All one hundred? A video? It's actually I think there was a video with it, but mainly the still well, it was a video and it has a streak. It's just it lasts like four seconds long. The streak of light shooting down. I don't remember. I read this story, but I don't remember the video now, just a streak. It definitely looks like a typical media would, so it's difficult to tell anything beyond that. There weren't any bizarre behavior descriptions that I saw, but a lot

of typical media descriptions. And it was seen, like I said, through multiple states, so that one most likely media, but unsure. Interesting. It's interesting how we're getting a lot more mediaor s lately. I guess we have had a couple of comments close and usually the tale create a debris.

But it's interesting, Yeah, like the one I saw that was extraordinary, I mean huge, and usually it doesn't seem like you have many stories of those huge meteorites, except for every so often to be bigger ones and the videos of those incredible fireballs, right, I mean more people have video cameras. Now, you know, everybody has cell phones with video cameras, so

maybe that is contributing. But you're right, we're seeing so many more stories about these meteors and big medias that are very bright in the sky that people are seeing across multiple states. And according to astronomers and other people that they say, oh yeah, media are no big deal. Well, they actually happen all the time, but we haven't heard this many reports and seen these many videos of such bright meteors like this year. This year has been crazy

with those. And I mean I've been doing you know, we post the news stories on the website on a daily basis. I've been doing that. I was doing that before Open Minds with moufon for several years, so I've been following the headlines for years, very closely daily. And yeah, it's only in like the last year that we've had so many huge fireballs. We've had a lot of the I guess more traditional looking media possible meteor sightings that are really big in the news. But you're right, we have so many

fireballs now too that could be meteors as well. But you know, these fireballs that make the news as well, so don't know what's up with that. What's going on? What's going on with them UFOs? Yeah, Well, here's a very interesting story from last week to British tourists allegedly recorded video

of an extraterrestrial in Brazil's Mammoth region of the Amazon Jungle. The video focuses on a group of young children, but, as The Daily Mail describes, in the background, there's a small being standing side on just to the right of a tree, appearing to arch it's back. There's also a strange glowing light in the video, just a few feet from the supposed et. This light appears to hover in the air and pulse, changing color from blue to

white. The identity of the tourists who shot the video is unknown, but according to The Sun, paranormal writer Michael Cohen obtained the video from these unnamed tourists. Cohen, who told the Son quote, this is highly compelling footage that will be hard to discredit. End quote was allegedly inundated with requests from Hollywood producers wanting to use the footage in various productions. He claims that the video quote will be used in direct collaboration with an American film and will serve

to highlight this as proof of this footage's veracity end quote. But Cohen, who operates the website anseweb dot com, has been accused of hoaxing and or promoting hoxed ufo et videos in the past, calling his credibility into question. A recent example is that skinny Bob Zeta reticular video that was like a aged video to look like it was supposedly this creature recovered from the Roswell crash, and that video also had these strange, mysterious origins, and Michael Cohen happened

to get this video well. Some have suggested that the alleged creature in the Brazil video is nothing more than an inflatable alien that would be consistent with the alien's behavior in the videos that doesn't move at all during the forty four seconds. However, the true identity could simply be nature. What is assumed to be the alien's eye appears to be nothing more than jungle foliage, but it's

always possible that a genuine Extraterrescieri was captured on camera two. There's no way to truly know what was recorded on the video by this mysterious pair of tourists. It's an interesting video, but I think this is just seeing what people want to be there. I think it's just rocks or trees or something because some of the pieces one looks like what was the eyeball, or one part of it looks like it's to leave because it moves separate than the body.

I think you're right. I think it's not. I think the light, the glowing light is actually more interesting than the supposed et because it looks to be something static. And the people that are standing there, there's even a couple of kids that look back through the forest and stuff. They're not reacting. No, they don't react at all. They definitely look back, but they're like eh, and they turned right back around like a kid would if

they're just kind of hanging out and riding around. I mean, yeah, they're not reacting to some alleged alien or anything. Right, And with the with the ORB, you know, it's possible that is cgi though I don't know, probably not, you know. Mark D'Antoni suggested that that could be the sun coming through trees or something, and that's just the camera interpreting the

data definitely changing the color on it. That's a possibility. He also suggests that he mentioned something about the head moving, appearing that it moves in the video. I didn't get that impression when I looked at the video. I don't think the head actually moves, And like he points out that what's supposed to be the head of this creature doesn't appear to be attached to the body,

just makes it seem like it's two different. But when you watch it, I think what actually moves are the leaves that look like the eyeball in front of it that moves, and it gives illusion that the head that's what I saw. The other thing is interesting on this one is or with Cohen. I don't know that he's ever hoaxed anything but the Russian one, especially where the Russians supposedly found this alien and it turned out to be chicken and bread. I mean, he denied that that was the case, even when

the people who made it admitted it. And he suggested that, you know, the government tricked him into saying that when the thing was obviously chicken and you know, it was not real. So it could be that just he really believes his staff and gets excited about it and has a hard time letting go. But he's certainly very very quick information. Yeah, well, Hondra, I got one more story to push out here. Let's go. Billy

Ray Cyrus at a photo of multiple UFOs yesterday. I know you're a big Billy Ray fan of Lejandro or more of a fan of Miley Cyrus probably, but he posted the photo to his Twitter account along with the description quote, Okay, my first UFO sighting looks like five or six disc like shapes hovering. Special moment for Dad. I don't know why he refers to himself as

dad. That's kind of strange. Lots of dad to do, especially because you know something that the other because he was going to make that show with his kid debunking UFOs. Well, I think anymore, most people know him for being Miley Cyrus's dad, and in fact, well yeah, the Daily Tail that Daily Mail did their their article today about this, and that's Miley's

dad. Miley's dad. Yeah yeah. Back in September of last year, September twenty ten, the Sci Fi Channel announced that it was developing a new reality show called UFO Unbelievably Freaking Obvious, starring Billy Ray Cyrus and his son Trace, and that nothing is developed with that as far as we know. I mean, they were supposedly going into production back in September twenty ten,

and there has been no additional updates with that. So Yeah, it could be that he thought he saw UFOs, or it could be that he was just an inside joke between him and his son that this is what the type of thing that people say is UFOs. Possibly possibly, Yeah, it's it's an interesting photo, but it looks just like a sunset, a cloudy sunset and the sun shining on some splotchy clouds. Yeah, that's really all that

you can tell from the photo. So I don't know what he saw in person, but I'm glad he's excited about UFOs anyway, So hopefully he keeps looking. And I don't think I want his show to happen because I think they're just going to make fun of UFOs. Yeah, anyway, all one hundred. That is it for the news for today. Remember to check out all of these stories and many many more at open Minds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. I'm Jason McLellan, your Open Lines news correspondent,

and you have just been briefed back to you, Alejandro. All right, thank you, Jason. Yeah. A couple of the stories that we have on the website are, like we've talked about the thirties to seven degree latitude line, which we're going to talk to Chuck and Debbie about in just

a minute. And then we also have part two to that Mexican government and the twenty Mind calendar, where Antonio had done some more research into the claims that the Mexican government's going to release some information that the miyand had actually had relations with extraterrestrials. But without further ado, let's go ahead and get our guests on the line, Chuck and Debbie, the Paranormal Siblings. It is wonderful to have on the phone two of my best buddies in general, the

Paranormal Siblings parasibs. You guys call yourself the parasibs because you know, you got to shorten everything. Chuck Sukowski and Debbie Ziegelmayer. Hello, Hello, Hello. The only brother is the Carnival team in the United States as far as we know of the world. Thank you very much. There's probably others, but who knows. I'm not as good as some. Come on, really, really, our calibers come on, really, seriously exactly. Well,

speaking of that, let me do some introductions. We have Chucksukowski, who runs the blog website UFO net dot com. He's done a lot of different type of paranormal work. You do ghost hunting, bigfoot stuff, UFO stuff, I know, especially locally, and you've been on some TV shows, You've been on some national TV stuff, So you're a busy paranormal dude. Yes. And then there's Debbie. And Debbie is a state director for MoveOn in Missouri, which has been very busy because they've had a lot of

UFO sightings. And congratulations because you recently became so a board member of move On. But you're an interim board member quick So when will they determine if they're going to keep you long term? Do you have to like capture a set number of extraterrestrials like in six months or something. Oh, yes, I've already reached that number. Well, I think there's something and I think that'll pretty much yeah, thank you. No, I have a I believe

I have a three year term. A three year term just like the other board members. And the reason for the position is when a board member retires, there's someone else at the same expertise. They can pit right into that position. And so I have somebody, what I have an Italian prominent town in in Florida that has links to them. Off here, you can start knocking off some board members. You can get them the quiver. Okay, I like them, keep my friends. Yeah, come on, let's keep

keep it legit. You're wrong field, Oh it's wrong. Good, I'll sort of go ahead. Oh hello, oh if I just so anyway, that's how it works. How it works. There's three of us, and it's a misers a position open. Then I would move into that position as that member retires. Okay, so that makes sense. So it's a three year deal and they just renew that for every three years. Okay, right, cool, Well, great, congratulations on that. How's it going. Uh busy. I've already got tasks? Yeah yeah, so yeah, very

very busy, especially here in Missouri. We'll get into that later. Yeah. Are you the only one a board member who's also a state director. Oh? No, I think most of them. Let's see, I think most are most are correct. I think most are Oh they are. Well, Cliff just became one, but John isn't. Or Tom Dooley isn't Tom, I believe I think Jan Harden is the assistant now. I think at one time he was. I'm not really sure. Well, the three of us, the three new in terms board members are and I know I know

some of the other ones are. But I'm sorry, I am I'm little babbling here a little bit. I've had about four hours to weep on nights in the past two weeks. Oh no, you've got a UFO flat going on in the state of Missouri. Yeah, you guys are super busy, So we'll talk about that too, because, uh, you know, as far as states go, Missouri is one of the busiest. So let's there's

one question I want to ask before we get into some of that. Though I can't remember the details, but I remember that for a period of time, you DeBie and Chuck, you didn't know you were both into the paranormal, and then you discovered that about each other and then started getting really involved. How did that happen? Well, what happened was we were both disjustice and then we saw each other up in the craft. We said hey, and she said hey. That pretty much started it right there, and I

said, that's wrong, that's my brother. Yeah, we were. We did a family reunion in the early Thanksgiving and we got to talking about Roswell and found out we were both doing research. I had been there, I had not, And we planned our first investigation, our first road trip together. And that was I think for two thousand and it's kind of been nineteen ninety nine, in around two thousands when we really started looking up right,

How funny? Was that shocking to you? No, because well, you know what was What was funny though, was that we you know, he lives in Colorado, and you know, I look here at the sorry, but we got along so well considering that, I mean to the little brother and sister. I mean, we really didn't hang around together when we were kids. But I looked at I watched the same movies, we watched the same TV shows. Uh, we would come back at each other. We

had the favorite, our favorite mind that we knew we were. We were shooting lines from Caddyshack back and forth to each other, and that's the family thought we were crazy. And then it just kind of went downhill from there. So so you were like, well, this is my craziest siblings, so they're probably into this stuff. But it turned out that it turned out that you know, we have six kids in this family, and you know, I have three older sisters and two younger brothers, and you know,

it just we just had so much in common. I'm sorry to say, sometimes my other sisters are little jealous because you know, Debbie and I do so much together because you know, we we have a we have a hobby that you know, we really have a love for. And obviously, you know, I mean you have to have a love for this, you will do this. It's you know, if once you think it's worth then you know you obviously don't want to do it, because that's that's what we do

for a paycheck. You but you know, when we started talking and and like that, he was saying quoting movies, and then it turned out with a lot of the movies, the sis fiction movies you know we've watched and stuff, and uh yeah, I mean, like, you know, we need to get together and and start you know, doing some investigations together. And uh and since then, you've really built a strong relationship with each other based on the athology and sharing knowledge back and forth. And and that's how

you know we've if it wasn't for this sharing knowledge back and forth. I would have known about how you know, how much of an impact Missouri was because thirty seven we do a lot of two things. So you know, there's there's some really big trade offs and payoffs I should say, you know, for having a sis hear in another states in this and being a brother a brother sixty team too. I have the things from a different point of view than Chuck does, and so we compliment each other very well. Look

at something. You know, I'm more Chuck analytical, but I see things differently. I mean, it's really hard to explain, but between the two of us, we can gather twice as much information as as in one investigation than two I would say, two gentlemen or two lady investigators, because we we've got the advantage of looking at it to two different points of view. And what I don't really just well what I don't think of he does, and we doesn't think of I do, and and we just do compliment each

other very well. So you know, when we have disagreements, you know, we're just brothers and sister having disagreements. So you know, it's unlike some other famous you know duos out there that you know, parted company, you know, because they've had issues, you know, doing investigations together. You know, we just we just got to resolve it right there. And uh yeah, a lot of time I was in Missouri, I pretty much you know, talked her hair, you know, your ear off. She

was probably ready for me to to fly back. But uh, you know, like she says, you know, we we compliment each other really well. You know, she's a little bit of contrary on a little bit of rock and rolling, and it just it just flies together really well. Well, like Debbie wasn't alluding to I think the male female thing because Debbie can say, Chuck, you can't do that, because that's sexual harassment, and chuck and tell Debbie, no, don't do that. Sin will look like

sissy. So you can from at of view, no, actually she isn't. She's not even that polite. She just hits me. I just snack him, right, she just snacks me. And then I kind of know,

okay, I stepped over the line. They worked out really well, and and you actually gained a gain a lot of information through some of the investations, especially oswell, just based on you know, the way that she thinks and the way that I think, and it kind of just kind of you know, it's like you know, like two half ciples they're kind of meet for a full circle in we get a full circle KnowledgeR. So you know, I think that's why some other people I talk to you, they

go, you know, that's that's really cool. I can't believe you actually do this with the sisters and and nowly that. But because there's a truck to in trust with each other and we can go into places where I'd be afraid to take someone else that I'm not really that familiar with a situation where there's a lot of danger involved in and people out there listening. There is

a big danger doing UFON investigations. I guarantee it. You know, you get, you get followed, you get you know, people watch you that you know they know everything about you, and you have to be careful not to step over the right step over aligning to be one of the twenty six

hundred people missing every week in the United States. We have sposed to a five or eight hundred and fifty thousand people missing every year in the United States without a trade So, you know, do you think those are UFO people. I'm thinking some of them are, and I think some of them.

Obviously there's other reasons, but you know, it's just feel kind of scary statistic when you look at it, and you know official you start looking back, and you know in the days where supposedly we had contracts, you know, from with the government, with the dailiens to allow abductions and make you wonder how many inductions went wrong and who didn't come back home? And you know, you know, these are the spot to just kind of fly through

your heads. But when you're out in the middle of the night, you know, doing an investigation and you get your sister decide, you know that you know, if you know you can trust I can trust my sister, she can trust me. And and we have this kind of a you know, we have a really good idea about how each other thinks. So a lot of times, you know we'll be thinking the same thing and we don't

have to, you know, just kind of flows a little better. And besides, I think I cannot run her just in case I have Nah, I don't know that making himself sound like a Now, oh, I tell you he's less with them, That's right, I did unless about my fy he keeps me safe because a lot of times I'll go into something full force. Yeah, I head on and he's like, you need to back up a little bit here, wait a minute, and I've got a lot of

things. We've been on the phone and I've been doing investigations. He takes, you need to leave in the home. I'm going wait a minute. I say five more minutes. So uh, yeah, we were we compident. You should have done well, yeah, I said you should be five to this on the road already. But what we do and you know, like I said, just uh, it was just one of these things that were at the salary of units started talking and uh, it's really funny.

But you know this is this is kind of a love that we have and and I don't know, I don't know about you know, her waying. He started to get into this a little bit, but you know, buying, you know carry, she's she's still a skeptic and and that kind of helps me. This is the compliments me in a way where U I had to make you know, my investigations almost bulletproof because you know, I have

the number one stuff that building the house. But it's nice when I when I do investigations with the other because I give the opening tree and not everybody laugh at me. Yeah. Well, on something else too that I allowed to bring up. It was that when we interview witnesses, you know, there's a lot of times out Chuck will start talking to somebody and I can see and start to back off. Well, now, all of a sudden, you know, I'll steps in and they'll feel more comfortable. And it

works both ways. There's a lot of times that will be ill interviewing somebody who's former military. Uh, they can relate more to Chuck than they can to me. We've got a witness who maybe has had a traumatic situation, that's a female, she can relate more to me. So between the two of us, you know, we we've got a lot of that and equipment too. So between the two of us we can make our wedness feel comfortable. We we have what equipment I don't have he has. We share expenses

and then also fight stuff. He said his wife really isn't involved, My husband isn't involved. I can we can actually travel together and share the same hotel room when there aren't issues with our marriages, right, so that all the way, Wait, wait, we have to just make sure that we specified that they are separate bed. Okay, absolutely we're not. We're not from out from Arkansas, no no friends, no marketing. People's well understand that well, but you know, terrically, you know, it really helps

out. You know, there's a little particular case where yet the actually held down the way in their side to seek the hell out of them and we got deination we needed. So that really worked out well. No, Actually, in real life, what happened was we were doing in investigation in Roswell, or not in Roswell, but in county and and and Getty is more familiar with uh, you know, you know country folks, and because of that she was able to understand things, uh and being able to help you

know, we were came to communicating with the Ranchers there. And not only that, but she found some evidence. I don't mind saying that, you know, I think it was Dona Schmith has some evidence. He's trying to figure out something that you know Rancher had written and she read it. She goes rattenings that that means that and happen means that she made it back to it and said you've done. He's been working on it for a while because she was able to read it and she knew what ranchers, how they think

and and and how they were right, she figured it right out. So I mean that's really a plus, especially from you know, when it came to another investigator, they could have figured out. So luckily I have that commodity, that asset, which mean when we go on investigation. So that's pretty cool. So I really enjoyed other people are out there too, that you know that that have that opportunity. Oh, I appreciate that. You know, we use words like cipher and one not. Yeah, I thought

it was big glad, but she knew exactly what it was. But seriously, does it does help out it. We got some really cool witnesses in Corona and also Lincoln, Lincoln County right there after the Greek site. You know, we took you after that one time, the rantry that lives closely that uh you know that area, Well, you know, we pull over and talk to them. She just still got out and it was like, you know, they knew each other forever. So that's you know, that's

a pluzz. They's just the having there. They accept a certain type of respect that there's respect among Peak country people, and if you're in their territory, on their land, you pull over when they start to pull up and let them greet that you talk back and forth, if you just breathe on buy them they're you know, there's issues. So I mean, there's just there's just thing this protocol. I'm just used the country protocol out there. It's just the ba by simple Well cool, I mean that is cool.

It's helpful, and uh, you're a neat unique group, so it's cool to have you both on today. But let's get into the thirty seven degree. And of course this will start in Colorado kind of where the story story starts, and then move to Missouri and we'll probably end with all of the exciting stuff going on when Missouri. But Chuck, this kind of started when uh, like I had written about, I just posted a story today on all of this, and then you have a blog of course on all of

this. But it started when you were trying to look for a correlation between your cattle mutilations and then uh, these these earthquakes took place. Right What happened was was you know, you know, I've done enough cattle religious now within the past two and a half years, you and I that investigated enough cattle relations. Yes, thank you as a compliment me and I was like, no, we found out who who's doing it. It's like yeah,

utiful love duty define getting an apple room. Uh. And you you know, you have me with the first one where you know, I'm starting to see a correlation with the evidence now of of symmetry and some other things that that are in common. And so I was, I've been kind of following that, and I was, you know, I was putting stuff down and getting ready for the you know, menuous up conference in Cabot City was great,

and literally it struck me. And what struck me was the earthquake here in Colorado, uh, you know, with a five point three magnitude earthquake and it was centered somewhere down by you know, oh it was the border of Colorado and Mexico. And I thought, well that was that was well. I mean I was actually working on my PowerPoint when when that happened,

and the next day it was just within fifteen hours I'm at work. And then there was another earthquake and that was in Virginia on the New Coast, and that was a five point eight And I have a cool little app on my on my smartphone that I can keep track of earthquakes. So I got on with quick and I looked at the Colorado line and I said, oh,

I have seventy. I was thinking wow. So I was looking at my cattle be stuff last night, and I was realizing every one of the cattle mulations and death issues I've done at Santa Lose Valley and Good pluschannels thirty seventy latitude. Then I looked at the Virginia and I went, oh,

my god, that's a thirty seventy latitude. Now I went a little further and I started doing some research when I got home from work that night and realized that the Colorado won You know that the earthquake fault runs north to south, not east to west, so there's really I mean, it's called the Sunday Crystal fault, you know in Colorado, and there was no way that that could have you know, been in common with the Central Virginia SIZS zone

or it's fault that ran north to south, so that they can't be related. You know, they actually are, and it's impossible. There's just too much ransom of stuff in between, and thinking wow, that's thirty seventy the latins. So that started the starting. I went, wow, I need to look into this country was going on. So I started researching exactly like you were doing, you know, with the UFO hotspot, you know,

across the United States. What I started doing is I started looking within a thirty seven degree latitude zone across the US and seeing what type of sighting you know, we're occurring in those areas. And uh, I mean you know, originally I next spent a couple of guys, you know, days doing that ended up with uh, you know, well over fifty five sixty siding within you know, a year or so, just within the last year. That's uh, that happened in that area while within it across the US.

So then I know, well, actually interesting, I noticed a couple of pop up the areas. I know, man, I got a call Daddy, because if anybody knows any type of utiful sudding, it was very giving the guy, you know, And so I called her up and she said, oh my god, let me when we when we started looking at this, we'll get back. And it was just a humans and she just jumped

right on it and started looking at it. She goes, especially, I've got this sign sign all this has happened, and I can you know, you can talk to her about the signs because a pretty cool sighting the chop of lights they fall in. Then you know thirty seventy last, I mean, all this stuff and then Ken, one of the kid touch such right,

yeah, you get a candle mulations at the gas in Missouri. Ye or so go now thirty seventy new latitude because I'm thinking, now, I got Colorado in Missouri, and I got these other states and went, holy macer, what the hell is going on here? And that's how it started. And then you found your paranormal freeway. Then that exactly. Then I started napping them all and looked at it and thinking, oh my gosh, which is really not only that, but you know, remember the mantel.

This is an incident which went were the mantel? Wasn't the one when he went up and shaped the UF. Yeah, that was a thirty seventy latitude. Al though, thought that was kind of interesting. Don't seek is real close to it as text. Crashion is right on the board. I mean, you're right there area fifty one in thirty seventy to do last. I'm thinking, Wow, I mean, I mean seriously, I'm married to get and that's and so I still have to be so what's diffical? But all

of a sudden you have all this information. It can't be the faith? And when how much information do I need to get hit in the faith? Before I realized, you know what, this isn't just coincidence anymore, It's something real about this, And then I was really a pleasure and an honor, thank you very much to remember the pretty simy relation when you were doing the you know, looking at sociding to dry out the US, and then all of a sudden there's a correlation between what you were doing and then what

I did, which add a little more delimited to this. And now they've got something that I think we really really got to look at, not only if we can figure out And this is so cool for the people out there listening seriously, because as UFHO investigators, you know, we always look for some type of evidence that everyth it doesn't have to be physical when we can stick it up and hold it, but evidence before how we can all aquare, how we to forget exitings in the future so we can get the evidence

we need if we can figure out pteronormal freely, if you can get an idea of not only for the studies are occurring, so we just start looking at the repetitive repetitive yes, I guess that's right or not dot com and trying to figure out certain times of the year and when we can be out there. And I mean, oh my gosh, this is huge. If you can you get out there and get the other it happens, Oh my

gosh, they're just smoking down. Yeah. One of those things I found interesting in this was, I, you know, with looking at these hot spots, I'm trying to figure out why certain areas are hot spots and nothing holds through. You know, it's not because of more US bass, it's not because of nuke silos or nuke bases. And I it's not the areas because lots of people assumed it would be areas where it's sunnier more often, but that's not the case. It would be further south, you would have

Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, but you don't have that. So I was really so and if not the place to do it, they're the most populated, like you said, right, And what was interesting was your map too. Another thing that correlates with what I found was you have Kentucky and Missouri was full of signings that you had found. And Kentucky and Missouri and Indiana were all in that top ten uh as far as population and in reporting

a lot of UFOs and that. And that's of course, so when people come and please, you know, visit open minds and and look at it all a handle has written up and then if you wanted to, you know, zipport on my website. But if you look at the map, think of it as if it's a regulars paranormal free as a regular freeway, as a thorough through thorough fare. I guess that's how you said for you know, for you had taken exit and you get off and come back off.

You know, don't think that all your sidings have to be in a straight

line like all the handle had pointed out. I mean, there's a lot of there that's very very easy access to where the majority of salaries are occurring across the US coming off of this thirty seven degree, So kind of thinking it that way, you know, obviously you're not going to just see the sturning sidy just just within that one latitude that's kind of kind of turning out a bit, and I'm looking at that going, oh my gosh, you know, and why at that point I'm kind of helped, you know,

hoping that you know, Gabbie or you know, you know investigators, you know with a lot of experience like Debbie and all Hands with the mother was out there and you've already started with with your UFO hotspots. Hair at a handbrew which is what you put on your on your on your website, that that hopefully we can find out why. I mean, I've looked at I try to look at ley lines. I try to look at a roar sometimes a raw energy, even though we will see the rowers, I mean the

energy actually drops down to like a curtain. Uh. I didn't really fall down that far, but it does touch a little bit, you know, on the eye side of Fourier studies that we're trying to look for. What was tause? What's the reason? You know, like lazard are the gravity

D waves you know flying around or rotting around it? You know, it's thy latitude that the spaceships the US or why you know, because if you look at the sorry I was just going to say where I found though that was kind of weird is that all of the states along the thirty seven latitude line are on the top ten except for Virginia and Utah and California, and they are actually per population, very low on the list, so they're not even close. I thought, well, if they're in the top fifteen,

maybe, but no, these are really low. Now, California is a very long state, it's very tall, so who knows. Maybe if someone was able to grab where the sightings are mostly in California, maybe they would be along there. But those were states that was kind of weird that weren't didn't fit. So it really kind of ended in the Kentucky And what's weird is that it goes up from Kentucky and you have Indiana, Michigan also with

lots of UFO sidings per person. And it's funny because everybody thinks that they have a lot. Oh no, we're the state with the most because of course they're really busy. They've got lots of UFO sidings that they're investigating. When you talk to the mofon guys and they're like, oh, yeah, we're such a busy state. So everybody is kind of shocked. What wasn't I on the list? But you know, we just go straight by the

numbers. But it was kind of interesting too, of course, because you know, Debbie, you're a good friend of mine, and you're probably out of all the state directors, I know a lot of them, and I like a lot of them, and they're friends, but you're probably the person that's the closest friend to me. And your state is on there too, number five, And that was kind of surprising too. It's kind of neat. I was looking forward when I saw that. I was looking forward to

this moment where we can all get together and talk about this. Well, what's kind of interesting about the thirty seventy decree Gratitude is do you remember or do you know much about the Pevemont flap you'll full flap in nineteen seventy three. Oh okay, Well, so Pevemont falls within that area, so does

Joplin. Spook Wife. Marley Woods is just just a touch south of it, but almost bordering into the thirty six and Marley Watch is an area and we've talked about this last time you were on the show, but is an area where there's a lot of weird stuff going on. There's a lot of activity. Ted PHILPS has been investigating that area since nineteen ninety eight, so

there's a lot of paranormal activity and around that area. Also in the area just just what we have Lake at the Ozarks, which it's falls just a little bit north of that area, but we have a massive amount of water in the middle of the state, which is also something very interesting that you can coincide with it. But now are our air force bases? White In

Air Force Base is at thirty eight point four to three. That's near Kansas City, just across the river from the scotter A Force States thirty eight point three two. Kansas City is at thirty nine saying Louis is at thirty eight point three seven. But that's basically Highway seventies, which runs across you know,

the state of Missouri. Uh, you know, so I would think that they'd run their high If someone's going to have a utiful highway, they'd want to run that a little bit norther their south, you know what. You know. That's but it's interesting though that our bases are are you know, if we've got Whiteman Air Force Base and Scutter Air Force Base, one in Illinois, one in Missouri, and you know we got Scutter Force thirty

eight point three white men thirtieth point four. Well, and McConnell's even closer, which is in Kansas. Oh right, right, But you know, I'm just across the river from the Scots and Scott is where the supplies will we go overseas to Iraq and Afghanistan. The supplies are coming out of Scutter

Air Force Base. The B twos are coming out of Whiteman. Now, as for Missouri incitings, do you find that, and maybe I don't know if you'd be able to correlate this or maybe just anecdotally, do you find that a lot of your cases are concluded as unresolved or unknowns as compared to other places? Be hard to answer. You mean that, you know, probably so, And the reason for that is, you know, if we

were there and actually seeing what's going on. I think what I had so far this year was we had as of September thirtieth, before we had the additional fifty five cases in October, we had one hundred and twenty seven cases in CMS cases case Management system called into lufon Missouri Lufon. Out of those, we had ninety two of them that were unknown, twenty four identified seven hopes, and we had core insufficient data that you know that we were still

working on them. And in that time period, fifty three of those in so far January through September were in the Kansas City area. We had thirty four reported just in August, So you're talking the first nine months, we had one hundred and twenty seven ninety two unknown And it sounds like a high amount, but you know, it fell us as I saw this thing and it's shut across the sky and you know, it did this some of maneuvers and it's gone. I mean, you can't go back and try and reenact

that investigated. You can go down to the site take because you can sky all day, but you probably aren't going to see it again. It's unknown because we don't know what it is. But out out of those ninety three, you know, I would I would be comfortable saying at least twenty five percent are it's truly truly unexplainable if we had, you know, if we act and then Lupon's officially I think they say about fifteen percent of overall settings

that are unknown. Now it's Missouri. I've never known personally, not that I know much about the whole area Missouri to be known as like a paranormal or UFO hot spot. Is it as far as you know, I mean, does it have a reputation like that? It depends on a year nineteen seventy three in Piedmont, which is along that thirty seven degree There were so many beautiful reported that year. They actually had Walter Cronkite talked about it on the news. They had they had, they had people down there, major

investigators. So there was a lot, a lot of lot that went on. Uh just not too far from there's uh Wapatilla Lake, Clearwater Lake. Up until the mid seventies, they saw craft coming in and out of these lakes, and then you didn't have a whole lot going on in the area. You know, it seems like in the last year at least, we've had an extreme law of activity, high volume of activity of the Kansas City

area, a lot that we can't explain. And then I think they go ahead, oh well, to say that it runs to the last two thousand and nine. We rectangle shape craft. Now it's more triangle shap craft, so it runs the first and that was more of the Segulis area we were having two thousand and nine, we had a whole we had a lot of people reporting things in this area. Move now Kansas City areas. Yeah, and we'll talk more about your recent sightings because you've got a lot going on

there in the last couple of months. But in Colorado, you know, going to the other side of the paranormal Freeway of course along the thirty seven line, there's a lot of interesting stuff. There's the San Luis Valley which has always been a hot spot for all kinds of paranormal stuff. There is you know, Air Force Bass one people don't know much about. It's the newest Air Force base, Shriver, which is a very secretive Air Force base.

So there's a lot going on there. And really I don't think it's it's a bias, but and maybe you know this would help where you're input two DEBI because I've always lived there. I've always known or always heard of Colorado and especially the Sam Louis Valley being a hot spot. Oh, absolutely, uh that you can. Uh. There's there's books. There's several books written by several different investigators I think that that's been around the Sandy Valley.

I believe a lot of well you had Sniffy the horse, and this is the more to give the Colorado for what you know, there is more checked expertise which was actually lady but yeah, that's originally the area is where the vitilations started to be An investigated the Category Nation. Just a weekend before last our good buddy Joe Sex and I saw we we went up towards the Tell

You Right area, Colorado to do a Bigfoot investigation. We had some big books guides over there, and it's a long drive for me to get up. There's the tell You Ride area where the big book scieties are series relat for Tom is got a house where they have mushroom testib over so that it's a very spiritual place. And that's where a lot of your high end uh Bluvie actors and exoss there, you know, vacation that used to be asked

and the now they're getting homes and tell you right. So like you know, Crestilm is over in the San Uel Valley and a lot of temple a Buddhist sample, a lot of religions are setting up you know, of churches and in different types of worship areas in the Crystal area, because that's not in the San Loe Valley, so three sets of the Greek So I don't know where it is, but we're starting to seeing from the spiritual activity people

just migrating to these areas. Not quite sure why, maybe either being driven, I don't know, but it's you know, it's interesting to kind of watching it. It's always been a big question as to why kind of mutilations UH started in the area and have been in the United States, no doubt predominant in the area, and why it continues in that area specifically. I mean they've had him throughout the country, but mostly and on the Colorado Mexico

border there. Oh absolutely, you know it's of course we don't know why, and you're absolutely right, they don't. They just don't happen in Colorado. You know. I've been getting reports from not only all over the US, but you know, Canada, UK, New Zealand and American Republic. And I'll tell you this is this has just happened to me this uh well in the last week accent because it is the third day. I guess I wasn't ask I'm sorry, I forgot what day I've been forget him busy,

just idetty. I actually got a call from a deputy in Idaho that's working a horse mutilation case. Uh. It's just between us, you know, because I was a former deputy and he really didn't want to go in the whereout for popular mediums and about it. But he's had multiple horse mutilations with you know, within about three or four weeks period, and so you know, he was kind of picking my brain on what to do. And we're setting it up that if you have another one, he's out there within twenty

four hours, you're going to send me. Example, I'm gonna send the Temple Gap. But here, you know, and this is why I like radio shows like this. I like the Open Minds magazine. I like your website, but it's a place where people can go, they can research, they got the magazine. Definitely keep your magazine for archival purposes, like we used to keep Life magazines back in the day, you know, because you'll never know when you need to go back and reference some of this stuff.

But we have now. I guess the second time I've had a lawforce to the individuals from another state contact contacting because there's really nobody after to help these guys about relationships. And why do they go to Colorado because you know Colorado. Hey, you know, I think I'm not gonna can't have the most, but I think it's been the most out in the media. And luckily, you know, we've had good people out of here in Colorado too,

you know, shit investigations, and I'm not saying just live. I mean, you know, I'm following some some pretty big footcasts of other investigators that set the path. So wow, I think I think though New Mexico and Colorado, one of the two is is definitely got the most and the other one would be number two. I would say i'd be safe in saying that. But well, you're probably right because we do get and you're absolutely right.

I mean, there's a lot of them going on in the New Mexico area close to the Colorado border that I can't get to because I just don't hear about it. And of course you know where I live, and you know it would be talking drives every time there is one chuck. You don't oh, man, I'll bet you this is why you don't go over there. You don't need a passport to go to New Mexico in order to go

further to Mexico. You can go to New Mexico. Ready, Well no, I mean I think past I have got it and they help just if I could go, yeah, I never need it. No, you could have gone, Oh God, I tell you what and you and it's really funny you hear about the strangest things. Uh, I was seating. I was on I twenty five and then the next seating I got pulled over by by a state troopers and we were talking and I wasn't speating that much.

He basically just put me over to come me to slow down, you know, because you know they'd have some animals across, you know, going across by twenty five and over night. He was a real nice guy. And what I normally do is when I talked to law enforcement to pull me over, I just only talked him afterwards. You know, I didn't take it

or not. You know, have you seen anything out of here? Have your fan And as it was, not only did they have a real folks sighting a couple of days before, but there also was a catmulation and he actually, yes, this is about a year or so, you know, And he said, they've had a few of him over there here the the Stanoje area and told you this, and and the cop told me, but you know what, they're not kind of talking with once to talk to them, you know. And that's just but you know, and there is a

problem with law enforcement. You know. I got shut down at a law force at big time earlier this year because they just refused to even deal with it. And it's really sad because that's just the mentality of this particular law

enforcement agency, where they just shut the door and close their eyes. And yet I had, I had I've had two deputies from other states that are very active into the depigating, so much so that they've been online in their own research, and then they find someone and they call them, and you all times of others. It was me that they called me, and I shared every information and method and I'm setting up, uh, you know, a binder full of information I'll be tuning out to a couple of individuals and

law enforces so to help them. So uh, you know, it is happening. Unfortunately a lot of people, you know, they turn their back and close their eyes, but they're afraid I mean we had one answer, you know, because right now, when I was talking to this deputy, you know, he's sitting in his car, they run the cell phone and a rancher pulls up and it's all over meat. No, they're not mean.

First off, I don't think it's pretty mean animals. But I mean, first off, that deathic says, well, you don't have any neat farms around here. I don't think either have any meek in this area. But then you have just the ignorance of the people that refuse to even consider and the openness that it could be something extraordinary, you know, and they refuse. Why are they refuge because because it would affect their normal way of

living. And it's really sad to think that way, but you know, you know, if a normal way of living, it's all because any different ways than we accept them, I guess, And they just don't want to deal with it. So you know, they come up with these you do, the PRIs excuses. I've never seen a new stay down not only a thousand pound cow, but you know a thousand plus pound horse. Eve, no way a horse will fight off up on rattlesnake. Look a meet to a rattle stake, So I mean, just yeah, and these are just

a couple of hoss that that were related. So it's sad, but that's what we have to deal with it with that as email that there getting Yeah, getting back to the hotspots a little bit, you know, and I wanted to ask you about Oregon. I've always known as a hotspot. We get a lot of people on our magazine and we have a lot of people telling us about sightings you hear about We hear about lots of sightings in Oregon, and you know, people will email us and oh yeah, in Oregon

we see UFOs all the time. And I was surprised that, you know, probably out of any state, that's where I get the most of those kind of emails that, oh yeah, we see them all the time in Oregon. So I wasn't surprised to see them on the list. Nevada not too surprised. That's where if fifty one is White Sands, a lot going on, you know, China Lake is not too far away from there where they do other testing and stuff like that for the Air Force. So that

wasn't a surprise. But what was a surprise is not so much Missouri because I knew about you know, Marley Woods and stuff like that, but Kansas, Kentucky, and Indiana were on the list, and those were a little surprising to me. I had never heard of those being hot spots or many UFOs in those areas, had you, guys? Well, oh, Kentucky, I think it is famous for big excitings. For one and another two, Kate Gerraro is is down south, it's not too far from the Kentucky

border. And Kate Gerardo Lacouri falls them at thirty seven point one eighth latitude Kate Gerardo nineteen forty one, the first to rousal so with that, and also down there by the Blue pill which you know New mad Re's fault. Kentucky. Yes, I think i'd actually had heard more big exciting than anything else. What about you just well, you know, if you look at if you look at Kansas, Okay, and you follow that area is what and it's it's rimber eight is what you put uh on yours? You know,

eight out of ten if you think about it. I'm really impressed with that because people just all you guys do just go to go to Google Maps, open up the satellite and it's and you can see the the barony, yeah, of Kansas flattened of godd City, you said, the gretatude things very much a little WoT earth. Maybe you need something, I don't know, But but you look along that area, not only is there you know, you have not the same thing as Colorado when you look at that area.

Uh, it's not like you're shooting through Los Angeles or you've got a lot of people there. You know that that would make sense these are areas. And maybe that's again too. Maybe you're an area so you have less uh ambient light due to you know, just you know, light pollution and

people see a lot more too. But you know, I am just so excited just just to look at your man up and I say, oh my gosh, she had these people in these areas where it's kind of barren, and you know they're doing the right finger, you know, you know what

they see the sidings and every reporting them. That's cool. Yeah, you have a good point there, And it would be interesting to map up your your map in mind with a map of night lights in the country, because you're right, you know, uh, the East Coast does not really register much on my map as popular hot spots, but there's a lot more people out there, and it's a lot more lit up than Middle America or the

West, which has which is a lot more sparse. And you know, maybe you have you do have people looking up more out where there are less lights. And then also you just look at the logistics of the social behavior people in California in that area or Virginia, Washington, you know, Pennsylvania area or north you know, you get people in certain areas pack with you know, they may not be the type of people socially that they go out

and do things. You know where if you look the Marea or the high in the region, people that you know that we go on camping, you know, we we do things on the weekends. You get out of dodge, so to speak. It's some loose that's actually go to a dodge for a vacation. You know, that's so and I think that's a big deal. You know, in California, I live in hyper Beach. I had to drive an hour and a half, you know, in almost two hours

to get to a place where I got out. And here in Colorado, I go fifteen minutes and I'm looking, you know, I'm looking in the Rooks. So it's you know, I think that might have to do with the two, along with the right solutions, just the social behavior of people in the in the high speed states. Yeah, and I don't think that any of us are surprised at Arizona. I was kind of surprised it was number one, but I'm not surprised it's in the hot spot now. I

know, Chuck, you were born in Arizona? Were you born there? To Debbie no I was born in Grand Reports, Michigan. Oh really, Michigan. You guys were all over that place. Well, Michigan's on the map, which I'm not too surprised about Michigan either, because there's always been a lot of UFO sidings around the Great Lakes areas. I think they're following me Michigan and Arizona and the very all three states. I know. Wow, that's how I feel too, with Colorado and Arizona. Chuck the state

you Arizona. What's interesting is that Arizona is where Chuck was born. It's number one on my hot Spot map, and out of the three of us, he's the strangest. Truth I will I won't argue that I'm not too far behind. I think I had a very really clear s guy there too. Well that's yeah, I think they're following you a hond that's for your sub Yeah, I mean, I mean, uh, it's the sunny estate.

So there's the most clear skies in Arizona. Uh. There's of course one of the bigger towns in the country, Phoenix here, which is like interesting because I'm you know, Colorado, Denver is more of an urban kind of area, and then you have, of course the beautiful mountains that the suburbs you know, spill up against. Out Here is kind of more of a giant suburb suburb Forever with real No, not much of a central downtown. It doesn't feel like but yeah, you're right, Travis Walton was out

here. That's what us and I interested in the sky. Both of us have always owned the telescope. And I moved to Arizona when I was five. So actually I think a turned spy in Arizona. So you get a job in Arizona and you that's why you moved. No, No, our family, my family moved by. Our parents lived in this in and my dad had a cross by World War two injury, so for his health, he moved to Arizona when when then they had check yes not to not too

long after we moved there. I think Chuck was conceived in Michigan, boy in Arizona, yetcha, But we grew up with that Arizona sky. We lived in Stafford at the time was a very small town and I take out of the house in the middle of night, climb up on the garage roof and just took at the stars. So I think that that has about to do with our interests. Yeah did you? Oh yeah, well, well what you were smoking too? Is it? Did you the got caught? That was a little kid. I remember going, oh, no, I

guess there was land of the gout caught. Yeah, that was friend and I never did I never did come over. Did you? Did either of you have in Arizona? You know? Serious for those people ask me who first started? For me, I remember as a kids, and there was a where I remember I thought I saw something that you know, it's been so long a though that you know, it could be all in my in my head, like I kind of remember seeing something and the people talking about

the strange life. I don't know it. It's one of those very very state memories that kind of actually happened to me, or I could have watched an arm show. But you know, it's something that I've always thought about. And one of the things that I realized is when when I sixteen years ago, when I moved from California to UH to Colorado, I was going through some old books that I had, you know, and I was looking you remember those weekly reader readers and then the books that week to have we

could get books every every time with the weekends from elementary school. I couldn't believe the majority of books I had were on your folks. Wow. So and that was when I was in elementary school, you know, eight nine years old. So at that time, you know, I had I had a real good as fascination for you know, you apology, a couple of diners for a books. So most of them were basically your folks stuff. So you know, for me, my love started, you know, for

young Yeah, a lot of mine were that too. They were astronomy. And when I was very young, I saw the flying wing over. They tried to say that it was never really airborne, but I was outside. I was maybe eight nine years old, you mean their wings, Yeah, that's yeah, the big Air Force flying wings actually did fly. It went low over our house. I remember seeing I remember the propellers on the front.

Yes, I think you know. I'm with Chuck. There was you know, great sky, always an interest and as far as seeing anything, yeah, now there's a lot of things you can't explain. That's the nature of being an investigator. So okay, I want to get back because we are starting to very low on time, get back to Missouri because you've got a lot of stuff going on. A lot of fifty four reports now, Chober, that's pretty exciting. That's shocking because that's going to probably be you

up on my list from Bio sifty five now. But you got a lot of media too lately, which always helps to bring in more sightings. And you've got a lot of the media from controversial siding where the media had said, you know, some people came out to admit that that was the stub planes, that you were playing their stutplanes that night and people were seeing that. Did that all they they didn't. I hunted them down. Oh you hunted them down, Tell me about it. We had movited after I found

them. We had people that were calling around the airport. So some of those sightings that thought, well, the person we need to do is call the at least some municipal airport. I got a hold of somebody there who was going to be gone in a few minutes. It was with fifty airport at seven o'clock the officer. So I got online and found the PAA flying team out of Leaf Summit, got some information that conveined, made a seap phone calls and there was a traffic accident that happened in in the area of

one of the sidings. So the major highways in the fourth five of the highways Highway County, they had traffic blocks up, people outside standing up as the cars looking up. And so when we said the road you know we don't file with life plans looking you know, you might be responsible with the traffic issues and six gentleman started throwing me his life lands and uh so we had a very nice conversation. Used to say it was the EAA flying team.

I know what time they took up with the seven pm on the sober court. They were in in the air for twelve to fifteen minutes forming a triangle with a delta formations pattern around Leaf onum it. They had six poins they put in this formation. The first website said they were experimental planks for their tips. There's something to buy for twenty five thirty thousand dollars in and

put a motorator for about one hundred. But that would explain that they have lights and the white silvery lights and the tips of the wings and the hill and you know the green and red lights and the tipplings, you know, and they're flying one hundred fifty miles an hour. I lined all that down. I know where they were. What fine, I've got their flight patterns. They weren't over the floor thirty five and highways seventies covering. They're small

two person planes. They're not a triangle shaped aircraft with yellow lights on the bottom covering two to four hundred foot covering over a highway. These were going one hundred and fifty miles an hour. Also, two check were checking into with we. We've had a couple of reports that there was a rancher an the area that had a horse and there are his dogs mutilated. So we're

checking into that right now in this area. Yeah, there's a lot going on with We also know that theres for some reason, they flew in uh drones from Texas, about a dozen of those to Whitman Airfield. I don't know if it's diversionary package. I don't know if that has to do with the factors we're on yellow alerts, but like anytime yellow averse, it's wanting to be teams around my must I heard V two don't cover. They're also very loud, so if you got we had sport that we're standing pretty much

outside your vehicles looking up at this intersection. And not to mention all the people, the other people that saw the just be thought the file of report and this craft was hovering over the highways. So it wasn't these little plans that were doing one hundred and fifty miles an hour twelve hundred feet in it, you know, And it wasn't the B two. How many people reported that hovering incidents, you know, we've got we're still narrowing that town.

I took about a dozen of the ones. It sounded like they were the CIA flying team, and just out of that I had two of them that said absolutely not. This thing was big and it was hourring. It was the size of a seven forty seven was hovering over the highway. We've got supports to the people right there at the intersection. Then of course we've got supports and all the surrounding areas because then after recovered, then it moved away

slowly. So Margie and I right now, Margie k is the assistant Missouri muf ON, the assistant state director. She lives in the Kansas City area in Independence. She's going through all the pictures, all the drawings, all the video, and I'm the one that's trying to map out. We're gonna we're gonna do a push pin map on Google Worth and to separate the identified from the unidentified, and that's kind of what we're in the process of it. It started off Toober four, so we're only at the twentieth. We

had a lot of field investigators that are out of town and sick. We've got one of the gentlemen helping us, and there's Margin and me. So it's been a lot of late nine hours, but we're going through all this. There is probably a good one four just flat looking at it, you know, just sit looking at it. That are that are large some types of large craft or orange lights or some type. Gotcha we're right now. You can't really give some definite numbers because the thro's a lot of information and

still coming in. There's a lot of people that they won't call it in until lots of they hear about it and they say, you know, I saw that too, I need to call it in, and they're they're coming in every single day, we get another one at least one, right, and when uh, as far as fifty four signings, let's see when it comes to Missouri, what one hundred and thirty six you've gotten up until last month. So, I mean that's a lot. So even if you a

quarter of those are actually not the stumping for which is interesting. So, I mean, part of this flap was due to the stunt planes. You had drones in the area for some reason and in the area for some reason, and so that created a lot of sightings. But still you're saying a good quarter of them are are you do have some legitimate incidents here too that

don't have to do with these conventional answers. Well, it was interesting in twenty ten you had one hundred and thirty eight scidies total, So we're already at that lance here to go. Yeah, it's it's what we had to Okay, a lot of the slightings, you know, and we say that

wasn't all of it either. We had the Golden Knights guydiving team I believe that that was in August, and there were these their Army guyde editing teams that they jumped out of a plane that would lift They four gentlemen had flares. They they this patterned as they came down. That we had a lot of useful sightings on that. Although when some of the study was starting to come in, people were saying, well, wait a minute, I saw the covering ball of light, which was one that was four miles from my

house. The lady reported that a large ball of lighte hovering about the two telephone poles high in the sky hovers there has been shot straight up the height of a helicopter, hovered for about ten to fifteen more seconds, and then shot heap across. I went sitty side and into Illinois. So when you've got sightings of people that said, well, you know, we know that there were parachutists that were in the area at night doing this stunt another stunt

incident. Surprisingly enough, then you have other things like this and said no, these things were shooting across the sky to go on parallel and then have one. Lady said, well, I saw it come up from a field, went straight up and hovered and then shut up in the distance. I had my thirteen year old granddaughter in Annapolis, which is in that thirty seven degree latitude, was on a float trippy end of July, and she and the rottle girl she was with the fifteen year old girl and the bomb went

on a float trip. Was the night the little hotel, and they went outside to canta the little hotel, so they went upside for some pressure and they have some slows and ships, and they looked out and were five balls of light that were sitting in the field across the streets. I mean just a line of them sitting. And then I asked her, I said, well, the next gage, you will see what was over there. She said there were more fields than trees. So we've got balls of light in

the area. July we had skyliners, which are Chinese lanterns, and then they set these things up. We had people letting them off of the sky forty fifty at a time to commemoratives. So a lot of that was you know, we had a couple dozen studies, but at least a dozen was that. But then these things don't shoot off at a high rate of speed, so it's all a matter of trying to tend this down. But it just seems awfu strange that we've had a lot of balls of light, We've

had a lot of triangle craft in the middle of all this. All of a sudden, we've got people stepping off skyliners that never did before. We've got sky divers in here that are flying around the players in no nights. We've got stunt players, We've got we've got drone planes and no someday after it's trying to make my life really yeah crazy, uh huh, because the word diversion come into play someplace here. But you know, if you look at Missouri, Missouri has always been I should say a hotspot. I mean

you tried to jop on life here. I mean you have the nineteen forty one Kate Giraro incident. Uh you know that that you know, people to the day, even you know, Devi and I were over there at one point. You know, we're looking at it. So it's it's really fascinating to see this and I'm kind of you know, because I know about the second parking, you know before, ahead of time. I'm figuring I need to jump on their place and get out there too. Wow. Yeah,

that's the really exciting page. No here over there, I should say, Well, we can explain, but there's a lot of things that's been out on landing trips, and there's a lot of things that you just can't explain. Yeah, I tried, you know, I start out in every case of the skeptics. Yeah, and I'm in the Sholi state. You know, this is Lasouri is the showy state. You have to show me what there is. There's a lot of this. I can't figure it out.

Yeah. It does sound like though, even with the B two's and the drones and the stunt pilots, even considering all of that, if that hadn't happen this month, you still would have had a busy month. We still had a very very busy month. Yet. Yeah, I mean this month is turning out to be pretty crazy for you. Well, we're pretty much out of time. I know you're both really busy people. So thank you so much. I'm glad you were able to stay up because I think it's

late, especially for Debbie and get on the phone with me. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you for having me on yep mine, thank you. It's always a pleasure, Angelie tell you all. Yeah, for sure, it's always great to talk to you guys. Thank you so much. Are you can read more about checking his information at ufonut dot com dot ufout dot com and he's a goofy guys. You can see great guy,

great researcher. He'll be speaking at the International UFO Congress in February. Otherwise, sorry to drop a bomb on you, but we're not gonna have a show next week, so come back in two weeks. I know lots of you get bummed out when we skip a week, but we've got lots of cool stuff, new projects going on that you're going to see over in the next couple of weeks, and we'll tell you all about it next week. Thanks for listening to Open Minds Radio. Don't forget to visit Openminds dot tv

for more UFO news. Talk to you next week, people,